I was curious about this, and I tested it with my own real amps. The verdict is that the pedal is not clipping. Normally, when I play, I use one of my amps (Revv Generator MkIII, Marshall JVM410HJS, Orange Rockerverb 100 MKIII) as a preamp and power amp, and use a Marshall DSL40CR as a power amp in 5 cable method stereo. For this particular test, I used my Revv as the preamp. To test, I engaged the pedal at full mix and with infinite mode and strummed as hard as I possibly could to fill the infinite buffer. I made sure to turn the master volumes down on both amps. Then, I listened for clipping. As you demonstrate in the video, if you turn up the output volume, I could hear clipping coming through the Revv power amp. However, if I made it so sound was only coming out of the DSL40CR, I could not hear a single sign of clipping. To make sure the issue wasn't isolated to just one channel, I switched outputs from the Big Sky MX and sure enough, the clipping stayed in the Revv, while the DSL40CR stayed crystal clean. Checking the schematic, the Master Volume on the DSL40CR is before the power amp, meaning it can control the amount of saturation into the power amp. If I turned up the master volume on the DSL40CR (driving the power amp harder), I began to hear power amp saturation. I suspect the DAC in your amp sim is clipping, because the pedal does indeed get very, very loud. But since every amp's design (especially each amp's FX loop) is so different, I would wager that this issue doesn't plague everyone. The main takeaway here is that the Big Sky MX does NOT have an internal problem.
So in your Revv you heard clipping but not the Marshall? Just making sure I’m understanding properly. I know a few other folks who have experienced the clipping. I do NOT know if they were amp sim or “real” amp. One potential hypothesis is this is a situation that plagues amp sims and their DACs. I can tell you that monitoring the meter and waveform in ProTools shows the incoming signal is not clipping. I’ve tested this with the HX Stomp but also VSTs in ProTools and the results were the same. I should point out that this ONLY happens with the BSMX. It does not occur with the MercuryX on infinite nor any other pedal in my arsenal. I find it hard to believe that ONLY the BSMX clips the DACs and nothing else does? In that instance there is still something amiss that needs addressed I think.
@@thepedalcollaborative Yes, I heard clipping in the Revv, but it was pristine clean in the Marshall :) I also have the MercuryX. I can use an o-scope to find out the peak to peak voltage of the BSMX when it is in infinite mode, and compare it to the BSMX. That should be the true test as to whether or not the BSMX is causing clipping. I'll also check some pedals that are known to be very, very loud, like the LVX, to see how they compare, and will report back momentarily!
@@thepedalcollaborative So, I've had a chance to test with the O scope, and I got these results: The Big Sky MX WILL clip, but ONLY if the input signal is sufficiently hot. I tried strumming as loudly as possible through a guitar (which is instrument level), but could only get the output voltage to peak at about 5V peak to peak. I had to use an overdrive pedal to boost the signal to drive the BSMX to clipping. It was clipping at around 6.2 - 6.4 V peak to peak. If I were Strymon, I'd put some sort of overdrive after the reverb with that much headroom so that the digital hard clipping is not audible. I compared this to the loudest pedal I could think of in my possession, which was the Meris LVX. I set the mode to digital and boosted the feedback loop by 20dB, set the feedback to 100%, and let it self oscillate. This pedal was outputting a whopping 13.2V peak to peak, and it was certainly clipping at the output. I have never bothered to check if the LVX is using any sort of charge pump to allow maximum headroom at the output stage, but clearly something is happening for the LVX to have the headroom that it does. Other pedals I compared were the Galaxy Tape Echo and the Flower Pedals Dahlia, which peaked at around 1.4V and 4.0V peak to peak respectively. The Galaxy definitely has a post-amp saturation simulation going on, while the Dahlia's front and back ends are both fully analog, thus they were soft clipping. It does seem rather strange that there is no protection at the outputs for clipping on the BSMX, but I think in the way that I use it, I won't drive it hard enough to cause that clipping, because when it's doing the infinite thing, it gets VERY loud. So for my use case, there are no issues! It may not even be possible; Strymon might be using up all of the DSP power, so there was no room to add a small overdrive module at the end. The spillover isn't really a spillover, more a short delay that repeats the last few milliseconds of the reverb between presets!
@SunTzuBean this is brilliant! So much detail and scientific observation. I’m learning things at every turn and it’s great (apparently you CAN teach an old dog new tricks 😆) I have some other tests I want to do but with less precision as I don’t have an O scope. I greatly appreciate the lengths you are going to work through this together. Your efforts are educating people and knowledge is power!
Translation: get the Meris Mercury X and have an actually useful infinite hold that you can play over with reverb or get the Strymon BigSky MX and have a niche Infinite mode that will just keep going, drown out your playing and eventually clip at any setting lol. Definitely a killer reverb for people who maybe don't need or want that feature. An absolute deal breaker for anyone who does imo.
Are you using the HX stomp send/return? Have you checked if the same problem happens when using it in series after the HX Stomp ? It could be that it is not the BigskyMX doing it at all.
I’ve tried it in series as well as the FX loop. I’ve also bypassed the Stomp altogether and used a VST within ProTools (making it in series) and still the issue persists. Turning off the VST so straight in and it STILL persists. I’ve even used a re-amper with the BSMX after the VST and you guessed it…still there. Could this be an issue with amp sims and the BSMX? 🤷🏻
@@thepedalcollaborative I think it could be the amp sim interaction with the BigSkyMX - just this Sunday our guitar player got the new mini TONEX and the amp impulse response he had was causing a weird feedback sound which sounded like a microphone feedback. Maybe there is a frequency on the amp that is building up too much on the reverb- I would look at low frequencies first.
Thanks! I had another commenter suggest running dual reverbs, freeze one and then play the other as normal. Would have a similar effect I think but I haven’t tested it
@@thepedalcollaborative OK cool to know. Now the real question is does the OG BS behave the same way in Infinite mode? If not then something should be able to be fixed in the software of the BSMX. Cheers and Thanks for the update!!!
Bro you say in the video that reducing the output level of your preset stops the clipping. The Strymon isn’t clipping. The Stomp is clipping. Can you switch the HX stomp to line level input? This will solve your problem
I haven't had this issue at all. But you also seem to use a lot more huge/feedbacky reverb settings than I do. Check your line/instrument level setting maybe?
Strymon should note this in the instructions and the recommended "fix." these people acting as if the unit work perfectly fine must be fan boys. You wouldn't design something to do this even if it's a consequence of the way the thing works. No one would say your car is working perfectly fine if it was making a loud and terrible noise. That would be something to fix in a passenger car.
I agree. Just a “NOTE: Sound will continually build up in Infinite mode, lower the XXX to keep it from getting out of control” That’s it. Problem solved. Sorta
That’s great! I hope you don’t! Strymon didn’t say it might be specific to my unit, and I know at least 2 others who have experienced this. It would make perfect sense that not everyone runs it hot enough to experience this!
@thepedalcollaborative , No, not the reason that it's not hot enough to clip, but I noticed that it's doing internal auto limiting.. Loving it the way it works! 💪💗
@thepedalcollaborative , Very strange!... Maybe they didn't do that in the very first units that they made... I goy my only few days ago. In anyway, I love how my new BigSky MX works in all dimensions! I'd say, best reverb pedal for today!
Very glad you’re having no issue with your BSMX! I’m curious, are you using a real amp or amp sim? The purpose of these videos is to educate others of what I’m experiencing. I was quite taken aback when I heard there digital clipping in my BSMX and didn’t others to not know about it in a $679 pedal
I was curious about this, and I tested it with my own real amps. The verdict is that the pedal is not clipping.
Normally, when I play, I use one of my amps (Revv Generator MkIII, Marshall JVM410HJS, Orange Rockerverb 100 MKIII) as a preamp and power amp, and use a Marshall DSL40CR as a power amp in 5 cable method stereo. For this particular test, I used my Revv as the preamp.
To test, I engaged the pedal at full mix and with infinite mode and strummed as hard as I possibly could to fill the infinite buffer. I made sure to turn the master volumes down on both amps. Then, I listened for clipping. As you demonstrate in the video, if you turn up the output volume, I could hear clipping coming through the Revv power amp. However, if I made it so sound was only coming out of the DSL40CR, I could not hear a single sign of clipping. To make sure the issue wasn't isolated to just one channel, I switched outputs from the Big Sky MX and sure enough, the clipping stayed in the Revv, while the DSL40CR stayed crystal clean. Checking the schematic, the Master Volume on the DSL40CR is before the power amp, meaning it can control the amount of saturation into the power amp.
If I turned up the master volume on the DSL40CR (driving the power amp harder), I began to hear power amp saturation. I suspect the DAC in your amp sim is clipping, because the pedal does indeed get very, very loud. But since every amp's design (especially each amp's FX loop) is so different, I would wager that this issue doesn't plague everyone.
The main takeaway here is that the Big Sky MX does NOT have an internal problem.
So in your Revv you heard clipping but not the Marshall? Just making sure I’m understanding properly.
I know a few other folks who have experienced the clipping. I do NOT know if they were amp sim or “real” amp.
One potential hypothesis is this is a situation that plagues amp sims and their DACs. I can tell you that monitoring the meter and waveform in ProTools shows the incoming signal is not clipping. I’ve tested this with the HX Stomp but also VSTs in ProTools and the results were the same.
I should point out that this ONLY happens with the BSMX. It does not occur with the MercuryX on infinite nor any other pedal in my arsenal.
I find it hard to believe that ONLY the BSMX clips the DACs and nothing else does? In that instance there is still something amiss that needs addressed I think.
@@thepedalcollaborative Yes, I heard clipping in the Revv, but it was pristine clean in the Marshall :) I also have the MercuryX. I can use an o-scope to find out the peak to peak voltage of the BSMX when it is in infinite mode, and compare it to the BSMX. That should be the true test as to whether or not the BSMX is causing clipping. I'll also check some pedals that are known to be very, very loud, like the LVX, to see how they compare, and will report back momentarily!
@SunTzuBean going the extra mile!!! I love it! You rock :)
@@thepedalcollaborative So, I've had a chance to test with the O scope, and I got these results:
The Big Sky MX WILL clip, but ONLY if the input signal is sufficiently hot. I tried strumming as loudly as possible through a guitar (which is instrument level), but could only get the output voltage to peak at about 5V peak to peak. I had to use an overdrive pedal to boost the signal to drive the BSMX to clipping. It was clipping at around 6.2 - 6.4 V peak to peak. If I were Strymon, I'd put some sort of overdrive after the reverb with that much headroom so that the digital hard clipping is not audible.
I compared this to the loudest pedal I could think of in my possession, which was the Meris LVX. I set the mode to digital and boosted the feedback loop by 20dB, set the feedback to 100%, and let it self oscillate. This pedal was outputting a whopping 13.2V peak to peak, and it was certainly clipping at the output. I have never bothered to check if the LVX is using any sort of charge pump to allow maximum headroom at the output stage, but clearly something is happening for the LVX to have the headroom that it does.
Other pedals I compared were the Galaxy Tape Echo and the Flower Pedals Dahlia, which peaked at around 1.4V and 4.0V peak to peak respectively. The Galaxy definitely has a post-amp saturation simulation going on, while the Dahlia's front and back ends are both fully analog, thus they were soft clipping.
It does seem rather strange that there is no protection at the outputs for clipping on the BSMX, but I think in the way that I use it, I won't drive it hard enough to cause that clipping, because when it's doing the infinite thing, it gets VERY loud. So for my use case, there are no issues!
It may not even be possible; Strymon might be using up all of the DSP power, so there was no room to add a small overdrive module at the end. The spillover isn't really a spillover, more a short delay that repeats the last few milliseconds of the reverb between presets!
@SunTzuBean this is brilliant! So much detail and scientific observation. I’m learning things at every turn and it’s great (apparently you CAN teach an old dog new tricks 😆)
I have some other tests I want to do but with less precision as I don’t have an O scope. I greatly appreciate the lengths you are going to work through this together. Your efforts are educating people and knowledge is power!
Translation: get the Meris Mercury X and have an actually useful infinite hold that you can play over with reverb or get the Strymon BigSky MX and have a niche Infinite mode that will just keep going, drown out your playing and eventually clip at any setting lol. Definitely a killer reverb for people who maybe don't need or want that feature. An absolute deal breaker for anyone who does imo.
Totally agree! If you’re not needing the Infinite then no harm no foul!
If you do, the MercuryX is incredible
Are you using the HX stomp send/return? Have you checked if the same problem happens when using it in series after the HX Stomp ? It could be that it is not the BigskyMX doing it at all.
I’ve tried it in series as well as the FX loop. I’ve also bypassed the Stomp altogether and used a VST within ProTools (making it in series) and still the issue persists. Turning off the VST so straight in and it STILL persists.
I’ve even used a re-amper with the BSMX after the VST and you guessed it…still there.
Could this be an issue with amp sims and the BSMX? 🤷🏻
@@thepedalcollaborative I think it could be the amp sim interaction with the BigSkyMX - just this Sunday our guitar player got the new mini TONEX and the amp impulse response he had was causing a weird feedback sound which sounded like a microphone feedback. Maybe there is a frequency on the amp that is building up too much on the reverb- I would look at low frequencies first.
@andreievkalupniek5717 something to look at! If it is an amp sim thing, more and more and more players are using them, so…
Oooof. Good information.
Thanks! I had another commenter suggest running dual reverbs, freeze one and then play the other as normal. Would have a similar effect I think but I haven’t tested it
Did the original BS have infinite mode, and if so did it behave the same way? Thanks
The OG BS did not have infinite mode. This is a new feature. (CORRECTION: I’m wrong. The original DOES have it as an option!)
I stand corrected! Yes you are correct. Both infinite and freeze ARE in the OG as an option when you hold down that preset’s footswitch!
@@thepedalcollaborative OK cool to know. Now the real question is does the OG BS behave the same way in Infinite mode? If not then something should be able to be fixed in the software of the BSMX. Cheers and Thanks for the update!!!
@tbgtbg6311 let’s see if someone can answer this for you. I no longer have an OG to be able to test
Bro you say in the video that reducing the output level of your preset stops the clipping.
The Strymon isn’t clipping. The Stomp is clipping. Can you switch the HX stomp to line level input? This will solve your problem
Not the issue. I have the BSMX on line, and the stomp in and out on line. Still clips. I’m open to other ideas though!
I haven't had this issue at all. But you also seem to use a lot more huge/feedbacky reverb settings than I do. Check your line/instrument level setting maybe?
Does it at both levels. Currently testing out rolling back the decay per Strymon. Not really the fix I want but 🤷🏻
Strymon should note this in the instructions and the recommended "fix." these people acting as if the unit work perfectly fine must be fan boys. You wouldn't design something to do this even if it's a consequence of the way the thing works. No one would say your car is working perfectly fine if it was making a loud and terrible noise. That would be something to fix in a passenger car.
I agree. Just a “NOTE: Sound will continually build up in Infinite mode, lower the XXX to keep it from getting out of control”
That’s it. Problem solved. Sorta
As my pedal arrived, I realized that I didn't have this issue at all! Never experienced any digital clipping in it!
That’s great! I hope you don’t! Strymon didn’t say it might be specific to my unit, and I know at least 2 others who have experienced this. It would make perfect sense that not everyone runs it hot enough to experience this!
@thepedalcollaborative ,
No, not the reason that it's not hot enough to clip, but I noticed that it's doing internal auto limiting.. Loving it the way it works! 💪💗
@XPJV well that’s cool. Mine doesn’t do internal limiting 🤣
@thepedalcollaborative ,
Very strange!... Maybe they didn't do that in the very first units that they made... I goy my only few days ago. In anyway, I love how my new BigSky MX works in all dimensions! I'd say, best reverb pedal for today!
@XPJV glad you’re loving it!
No issue at all with my MX... It is very curious why these kind of video uploaded?... For the sake of public attention uh?
Very glad you’re having no issue with your BSMX! I’m curious, are you using a real amp or amp sim?
The purpose of these videos is to educate others of what I’m experiencing. I was quite taken aback when I heard there digital clipping in my BSMX and didn’t others to not know about it in a $679 pedal