worth mentioning that the sprues with predators and sicarians in the launch box has enough turrets to make both kinds, so you only need to glue the sponsons
Dont forget point defense can shoot a separate target for more effcient shooting, so the niche for hb point defense is potential effiecent actions ie if you want to nuke buildings they can shoot infantry
I think the fact that HBs can hose down infantry while the tank shootout is ongoing is actually really important. I think most squadrons need 2-4 heavy bolters to fend off infantry , myself. But we shall see in practice!
Point defense can also be fired if the unit has a march order, giving fast firepower against infantry units when if you had (most) autocannons or Las cannons you lose all of their firepower by marching.
A few points defence guns have been a handy defence against infantry charges on a Heavy tank detachment armed with mostly AT I've found that you mentioned
I'll be taking Autocannon turrets with lascannon sponsons on at least 3-6 Predators. It's the classic setup from the olden-times, and matches my 28mm squadron.
I think you are underestimating the Heavy Bolter + Melta on the Kratos. To use the kratos melta you have to get in so close you a guaranteed to get charged. Having 4 point defence heavy bolters for clearing infantry and overwatch while the melta does its work
Thanks for another ace video, I'm loving the Legions Imperialis content, im not sure about the Heavy Bolters, i watched a battle report and the auxilia player absolutely mashed whole space marine detachments just with his russes heavy bolters, it might have just been luck/unlucky rolls but they seemed strong against marine infantry at any rate
@@Hearesy ah that makes sense, I'm kind of liking the idea of a Sicaran squadron with triple Heavy Bolters and auto cannons zipping around and blitzing infantry detachments, just by forcing loads of saves
At 14:40 I think you are very wrong. The Heavy Bolter is the weapon to take on the Kratos equipped with the Melta Blast - you'll likely be getting as close as hell to buildings packed with enemy troops and the Heavy Bolters give at least legitimate anti-infantry swarm firepower to prevent the counter-attack. The Sicaran I generally agree, Las Cannon sponsons win, but I can see a reason to take Heavy Bolters because in a knife fight the Point Defence can split fire, so you don't have to concentrate everything onto single targets. The Predators, yes, the reliable and sensible option is 110% all Las cannon stand-off anti-tank Predators squadrons.
Why are you moving melta blast kratos up to a building and there’s troops left afterward? :) (Also, dont waste slots on HBs; support your tanks instead) Still if you want to use HBs, theyre far from bad. Theyre just not worth the slot compared to big guns imho.
Just found your channel today and it makes for great listening while painting LI models. I look forward to binging the rest of your videos while I paint my minis!
I have just been making my ranges similar! So definitely leaning on lascannons more with most tanks. I think heavy bolters shine on the sicarans though. 3 per sicaran with the 3 autocannons on top make them the best frontline tank imo, infantry wont be able to swamp them!
Was given the starter box for Christmas and proceeded to grab an extra couple of Kratos boxes and a Thunderhawk. Have no idea how to play, don't care, loved painting all the stuff and surprise for me, fitted out my Predators as all-round Las. Kratos I made 3 variants. Looking forward to playing now. Great presentation on the channel too btw. Will be watching again.
Right now have two halves of Astartes so 6 predators, 4 Sicaran and bought 8 Kratos (2 boxes). 3 Predators: Cannon/Heavy Bolter 3 Predators: Lascannon/Lascannon 4 Sicaran: Autocannon/Lascannon 5 Kratos: Battlecannon/autocannon/Lascannon 3 Kratos: Melta/autocannon/heavy bolter
90% this, the Predators with AC would be the 10% 'meh', but (1) I see the more dice anti-infantry (which ultimately wins the games) option, and (2) it is the coolness OG Predator and not that much weaker option.
Have a question about sponsons. The rules state 1 laz cannon shot for sponsons ( each tank having 2 sponsons ) and 1 shot for a hull mounted laz cannon. So would you only have 2 shots total as per the verbage in the rule book. Or 3 as logically you have 3 of the same weapon.
Heavy Bolters are not without their uses, especially once you start looking at probabilistic outcomes not just deterministic. Note however something to really consider is that units don't have to act alone, armour can be given some infantry (perhaps in rhinos) to move with them and keep enemy assault units off them
I have huge problem to understand Kratos tanks. It says that it can choose Two hull mounted lascannon, Heavy boltor or autocannon. Because i am new to warhammer thing. So i choose lascannon as my main secondary weapons, In my mind i go with what stats and it says 1 for hull mounted lascannon and 1 for spons lascannon. The thing that confuse me very much is text is writen as "Two Lascannon" but on the stats it doesent sayanything that i should add them? So how many lascannon shots do the kratos gets and how many do it reroll?
I have heard that Heavy Bolters is better to help defend against Infantry charges. I'm kinda split on what to take, so I'm glad you are in the lascannon side. Astares tanks are kinda weaker compared to the Solar Auxilia tanks, atleast for now. I think if you run a Sicaran unit of like 3-4 or more you could run a split load on sponsons. Some lascannons to help with AT or to plink a few rounds if nothing close enough and Heavy Bolters for drive bys or volume of fire if in range. I'm planning to magnitise what I can (excluding most sponsons) and building some multi at first to get a feel for things in game.
I'm very new to heresy and space marines and I know they aren't in this video... but could somebody clarify the rules for Rhino weapons? I wanted to build mine to resemble what they actually have equipped but the single bolter vs double bolter lid confuses me. What exactly is the twin linked bolter here? Is it two lids with one bolter or is it the lid with two?
I think the community needs to take a hard line that this game is not WYSIWYG. That barely makes sense with the titans but for the vehicles those guns are tiny and not discernible across the table.
Why not just take the hard stance that the game isn't competitive and you should just play your tanks how you built them. They're not that small. I can see if a tank has a Lascannon or heavy bolter sponsors from across the board. What I don't want to do is just to play the mental gymnastics trying to remember what my opponent said each tank has at the beginning of the game despite what it's built with
The rulebooks indirectly states the game is not WYSIWYG. It describes Beam weapons as being drawn from the weapon or from the firing model if “the weapon is not physically represented”. Page 78.
Right now the specialists are expensive so you could put one plasma, missile launcher or assault marine on a base and then have 4 tacticals in the back.
worth mentioning that the sprues with predators and sicarians in the launch box has enough turrets to make both kinds, so you only need to glue the sponsons
There is only one "i" in *Sicarans.
@@batteredwarrior wtf you're right, how have I been reading it wrong all this time ???
But not on Kratos.
Dont forget point defense can shoot a separate target for more effcient shooting, so the niche for hb point defense is potential effiecent actions ie if you want to nuke buildings they can shoot infantry
I think the fact that HBs can hose down infantry while the tank shootout is ongoing is actually really important. I think most squadrons need 2-4 heavy bolters to fend off infantry , myself. But we shall see in practice!
Point defense can also be fired if the unit has a march order, giving fast firepower against infantry units when if you had (most) autocannons or Las cannons you lose all of their firepower by marching.
A few points defence guns have been a handy defence against infantry charges on a Heavy tank detachment armed with mostly AT I've found that you mentioned
Will few HB stop charging dedicated melee unit or affect combat result? Yeah...
I'll be taking Autocannon turrets with lascannon sponsons on at least 3-6 Predators. It's the classic setup from the olden-times, and matches my 28mm squadron.
Im taking a squadron for the same reason!
@@Hearesy I'm taking the autogun with bolter sponsons, Because I like em
I think you are underestimating the Heavy Bolter + Melta on the Kratos. To use the kratos melta you have to get in so close you a guaranteed to get charged. Having 4 point defence heavy bolters for clearing infantry and overwatch while the melta does its work
Thanks for another ace video, I'm loving the Legions Imperialis content, im not sure about the Heavy Bolters, i watched a battle report and the auxilia player absolutely mashed whole space marine detachments just with his russes heavy bolters, it might have just been luck/unlucky rolls but they seemed strong against marine infantry at any rate
Nothing wrong with HBs, just there are other, better ways to get anti infantry firepower and less good ways to get AT firepower.
@@Hearesy ah that makes sense, I'm kind of liking the idea of a Sicaran squadron with triple Heavy Bolters and auto cannons zipping around and blitzing infantry detachments, just by forcing loads of saves
At 14:40 I think you are very wrong. The Heavy Bolter is the weapon to take on the Kratos equipped with the Melta Blast - you'll likely be getting as close as hell to buildings packed with enemy troops and the Heavy Bolters give at least legitimate anti-infantry swarm firepower to prevent the counter-attack. The Sicaran I generally agree, Las Cannon sponsons win, but I can see a reason to take Heavy Bolters because in a knife fight the Point Defence can split fire, so you don't have to concentrate everything onto single targets. The Predators, yes, the reliable and sensible option is 110% all Las cannon stand-off anti-tank Predators squadrons.
Why are you moving melta blast kratos up to a building and there’s troops left afterward? :)
(Also, dont waste slots on HBs; support your tanks instead)
Still if you want to use HBs, theyre far from bad. Theyre just not worth the slot compared to big guns imho.
Just found your channel today and it makes for great listening while painting LI models. I look forward to binging the rest of your videos while I paint my minis!
Just got my starter box, your videos are very helpful. Thank you
Great show! Much appreciated!
I have just been making my ranges similar! So definitely leaning on lascannons more with most tanks. I think heavy bolters shine on the sicarans though. 3 per sicaran with the 3 autocannons on top make them the best frontline tank imo, infantry wont be able to swamp them!
Great job , very informative video that's got me thinking about my tanks load outs.
Been magnetising mine for the past week. Should have watched this first lol. The second box is all!! being glued
Magnets are still the best!
Ok I was interested in the Nu-Epic but I was ummm-ing and ahhh-ing over how interested.....your coverage is swinging me towards it
Get a box and lets play!
Good stuff. Caught this episode while sitting down to paint even.
Was given the starter box for Christmas and proceeded to grab an extra couple of Kratos boxes and a Thunderhawk.
Have no idea how to play, don't care, loved painting all the stuff and surprise for me, fitted out my Predators as all-round Las.
Kratos I made 3 variants.
Looking forward to playing now.
Great presentation on the channel too btw. Will be watching again.
Thanks! Same for me, im buying even if I stop playing eventually. I love painting tiny tanks!
@@Hearesy I can see myself collecting a bunch of stuff and probably never rolling a dice
Great video as always! Would love to see some hobby updates once your epic force is good and go.
Right now have two halves of Astartes so 6 predators, 4 Sicaran and bought 8 Kratos (2 boxes).
3 Predators: Cannon/Heavy Bolter
3 Predators: Lascannon/Lascannon
4 Sicaran: Autocannon/Lascannon
5 Kratos: Battlecannon/autocannon/Lascannon
3 Kratos: Melta/autocannon/heavy bolter
90% this, the Predators with AC would be the 10% 'meh', but (1) I see the more dice anti-infantry (which ultimately wins the games) option, and (2) it is the coolness OG Predator and not that much weaker option.
Thanks for the video. Waiting on the Warhound Titan vid.
Cheers man. I'm looking forward to getting my force going.
yoyo, loving the imperialis content.
Cheers bruh!
Thanks, excellent video. Very helpful.
Horse Hersey is a great setting. I hope to play Limpialis sometime next year. Maybe we'll do the Dropsite Massage.
"The Dropsite Massage"? 🤨
Are you playing Emperor's Children? 😁
@@Secretgeek2012 No, my favourite dudes are Sons of Horsus Loopergal. Emprah knows people manage to take the fluff so seriously sometimes.
Really well done
Hold on, let me unglue those heavy bolters 😂 helpful vid, thanks
I do wonder if the heavy bolters will find a bit more practical use in actual play vs theorycrafting.
Heavy Bolters are fine in and of themselves, but 1 heavy bolter is not equivalent to 1 lascannon. You get a lot more value by taking a lascannon.
Have a question about sponsons. The rules state 1 laz cannon shot for sponsons ( each tank having 2 sponsons ) and 1 shot for a hull mounted laz cannon. So would you only have 2 shots total as per the verbage in the rule book. Or 3 as logically you have 3 of the same weapon.
Don't make the heavy bolter to Bad. Fiering in the movement phase ist very important! I think you will need 1/3 of the the weopons.
Are there rules for WYSWYG.
I really dont want make/buy somany tanks.
Heavy Bolters are not without their uses, especially once you start looking at probabilistic outcomes not just deterministic.
Note however something to really consider is that units don't have to act alone, armour can be given some infantry (perhaps in rhinos) to move with them and keep enemy assault units off them
Cool
I have huge problem to understand Kratos tanks. It says that it can choose Two hull mounted lascannon, Heavy boltor or autocannon. Because i am new to warhammer thing. So i choose lascannon as my main secondary weapons, In my mind i go with what stats and it says 1 for hull mounted lascannon and 1 for spons lascannon. The thing that confuse me very much is text is writen as "Two Lascannon" but on the stats it doesent sayanything that i should add them? So how many lascannon shots do the kratos gets and how many do it reroll?
I have heard that Heavy Bolters is better to help defend against Infantry charges. I'm kinda split on what to take, so I'm glad you are in the lascannon side.
Astares tanks are kinda weaker compared to the Solar Auxilia tanks, atleast for now.
I think if you run a Sicaran unit of like 3-4 or more you could run a split load on sponsons. Some lascannons to help with AT or to plink a few rounds if nothing close enough and Heavy Bolters for drive bys or volume of fire if in range.
I'm planning to magnitise what I can (excluding most sponsons) and building some multi at first to get a feel for things in game.
Thankfully none of the main weapons need magnetising as GW just gives us duplicate turret parts to build both.
@totallycarbon2106 not every tanks does
I think I’ll run all lascannons on my predator tanks. But for my Sicarans I’m probably gonna go anti-infantry.
I'm very new to heresy and space marines and I know they aren't in this video... but could somebody clarify the rules for Rhino weapons? I wanted to build mine to resemble what they actually have equipped but the single bolter vs double bolter lid confuses me. What exactly is the twin linked bolter here? Is it two lids with one bolter or is it the lid with two?
No difference. Im a little annoyed there arent more double bolter ones but it doesnt matter.
What about the Solar Auxilia?
They’l be getting some airtime soon too!
Just a heads up bud, digital book has the sicaran plasma as 2 shots, which changes things a bit if this is correct.
The Omega Plasma is 12" not 14" according to the rulebook
Got to the pretty same conclusion. Exept that Kratos is far superior cost wise to predators and sicarians.
Psh, all you need is 30 rhinos with havoc launchers. 😂
Rhinos with guns are schweet
Sicaran plasma cannons are 2 shots not one, the rule book is mis-printed.
Because it was in a prerelease document? Im not sure that flies. And there’s already been an faq.
in the digital edition of the rulebook its 2 shots@@Hearesy
@@mrporkio i guess we’ll see! Would be great if it is that.
I think the community needs to take a hard line that this game is not WYSIWYG. That barely makes sense with the titans but for the vehicles those guns are tiny and not discernible across the table.
I really hope not. 😂
Why not just take the hard stance that the game isn't competitive and you should just play your tanks how you built them. They're not that small. I can see if a tank has a Lascannon or heavy bolter sponsors from across the board. What I don't want to do is just to play the mental gymnastics trying to remember what my opponent said each tank has at the beginning of the game despite what it's built with
The rulebooks indirectly states the game is not WYSIWYG. It describes Beam weapons as being drawn from the weapon or from the firing model if “the weapon is not physically represented”. Page 78.
Right now the specialists are expensive so you could put one plasma, missile launcher or assault marine on a base and then have 4 tacticals in the back.
@@johnmartin7705 Most classic epic is like 2 missiles to a stand for the devastatiors.