How ECHO Ruined KINGPIN | How to Destroy a Villain
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- Опубликовано: 16 янв 2024
- Kingpin was the villain in ECHO. Here's why he didn't leave a lasting impression.
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The MCU has villains?
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
The "toxic audience"?
No you can't call then Villains that so derogatory.
Nah, only “sympathetic characters”. Just look at poor Wanda and how her victims are so mean to her.
The MCU has villains. The M She U does not.
The character of Kingpin from season 1 of the first Netflix series of Daredevil was one of the best portrayals of a villain I have ever seen. I don't think I could stand to see this newer, diluted version of him, even if he is played by the same actor.
This is not diluted this is basically a new character obsessed with offing himself. It honestly caught me off guard just how wrong they got the character.
@@krixousragnarr2458 Kingpin under Disney truly did turn into a joke. The man used to be an actual threat in Netflix, now he's the unkillable jobber in every MCU show.
(Edit: he was.) As a person who saw it for the Kingpin villain and Echo, please, just don't.
Yeah, they should either used kingpin as exact same character continuing from daredevil or just build up a new kingpin properly. They weren’t doing either so we got some weird half-assed dumb kingpin… i mean they bought all the rights to netflix series why not just use it as continuant of daredevil? Current writers clearly can’t make some decent new things, as all the new shows from new-age writers they all think they can do better that they use current IP, and change it to a trash…. Smh
he cried like a bitch baby at the end 😂😂😂 marvel is gonna marvel. stop watching this garbage
Nerdrotic made a video dumping on this series, and people on Twitter didn't like it. They leaked his home address. Just shows how nice and tolerant that side truly is..
wtf????????
People are nuts
People just need to stop posting on Twitter.
@@Alteori yup and some guy said ghat he should count sheep since they know where he lives.
"People have gotten too used to saying whatever they want without getting punched in the face."
- Mike Tyson
The fact that kingpin is supposed to be the street level Thanos makes it worse.
You're taking the piss comparing Fisk to that overrated jackass
Yeah, Disney just can't let Thanos go. And thus actually remove their villains own personal traits because Thanos was so good.
Though ironically after hearing how the Infinity War was done in the Comics; I'd have preferred "Simp Thanos" over Communist/Socialist Thanos.(his view is essentially The Shrinking Market Theory; which is a major cornerstone of all Socialism. Yes including Mr. Mustache Man who used it to justify his eastward expansion. And yet people unironiclly say Thanos did nothing wrong.)
@@strategicperson95 Good? The dumb fuck only wanted to kill half of the universe and then expected the rest of the galaxy to just fall in line after the dipshit ran off to the middle of nowhere to avoid the repercussions of his middle school tier plan
Halving the population would only work on the sgort term anyway, and Thanos destroyed the Infinity Stones so it cannot be repeated @@strategicperson95
It's so stupid.😂
Wouldn't it have made more sense to reveal that ECHO intentionally missed her shot because, deep down, she grew up to truly love and admire KINGPIN as a second father in her life? Man, so many missed opportunities. As someone who's been burnt by the MCU for a while now, this just hurts even more to see the characters I loved so dearly from their initial Netflix incarnations be butchered senselessly by horrid writing and pacing.
You should check out Avengers Earth's Mightiest Heroes that show is proving to be a nice detox for the current MCU.
I wonder when Disney will finally admit checking boxes and focusing on girl bosses doesn't work. Surely by now they have to understand that
That's like standing up to the Dark Side and expecting Kennedy...I mean Palatine to see reason.
@@joshuacr PUT A CHICK IN IT AND MAKE HER LAME!
@@joshuacr I KNEW IT THE STORMTROOPERS DID KILL KENNEDY, why else does the whole conspiracy revolve around the bullets, WHICH, stormtroopers are know to mess up, AND WE ALL KNOW WHO THE STORMTROOPERS WORK FOR, Big Bacon.
Big Bacon killed not only Kennedy, but also Abraham Lincon, Garfield, William McKinley, and Hitler.
*WAKE UP SPEEPLE*
I think by this point Disney is speedrunning their own bankruptcy.
Oh you sweet summer child. The whole reason they continue to push it so hard is BECAUSE it's unpopular. They are trying to engineer society, teach people what to think and how to feel.
They won't stop trying to push it, that would be giving up. They're definitely super frustrated that the fans keep calling out their BS, but they will never backtrack, because they have a goal more important to them than short term profits (which corporations shouldn't do)
The plan is to keep doubling down on this type of content until it is popular and mainstream, until the audience has received their software update from Disney and BlackRock; and then they will continue pushing.
People who are so alienated from reality that they no longer trust themselves to be able to discern the truth are scared, dependant and much easier to control.
Kingpin has a superhuman strength. Everyone underestimate him as they all see his big fat body when in reality it is pure muscle. His punches can break concrete and his body can withstand Spiderman's attacks.
He used to have all that, but this is Disney and he has a Y chromosome, so into the trash it goes!
Yeah, but Spiderman holds back a lot. It's a nerdy quibble I know. 🤓 But yeah, Kingpin is Lex Luthor with 400 pounds of muscle.
Not in Daredevil show
Kingpin is regular person
@@teddybear8348 Yes but he is strong. The TV shows nerfed him.
IF you want to see a good Marvel see Daredevil season 1,2 and 3. Kingpin is so terrifying. He's one of the best bad guys, Loki, Thanos, Hela, Winter Soldier. All the other villains were mid. They just turned him into Disney Marvel trash
1 and 2, 3 is the weakest!
This. This is why Captain Hook and Kingpin are some of my favorite villains. Echo dilutes such brilliance.
Marvel is terrible
@@joshuacr Man's just said captain Hook while agreeing Thanos was mid. Yeah ok.
@@ibannash I can say that Hook was a strategist. I can't say that I agree with the BS movie version of Thanos compared to the original comic version doing this all for the love of death. Literally. I'll stop there.
I actually just got through finishing the show like two days ago. I was disappointed. It's not the worst thing I've ever seen, but it was dull, rushed, messy, and surprisingly not as mature as I thought it would be. I think they should have leaned into the "R" rating, but it seemed they wimped out and tried to have both worlds. I also have to give my condolences to any Echo fans out there. They did your character dirty. They changed her look, abilities, took one of her legs, gave her some extra lbs, and then put her in a mid, messy show. Kingpin also deserved better. Daredevil must have sensed something was off and got out of there before they ruined him too. lol
It made me regret saying Iron Fist was bad
@@defoley5 I forgot about Iron Fist. I actually watched both seasons. Thinking back, I actually liked Iron Fist better than Echo. Iron Fist had a better villain, or at least a better portrayal of the villain. I forgot his name (Davos maybe?), but he was someone that trained with Danny. The fighting was also better than it was in Echo.
But ... but ... but ... a woman, a handicapped one at that ... and of color ... CHEER YOU APE!!!
@@GO-GO_SO-SO Fighting being worse in Echo than both seasons of Iron Fist is pretty damning words, lol. After the fantastic action choreography and stunt work of Daredevil, the quality of fighting in that specifically martial arts-focused show was an incredible disappointment, and to hear that it's even worse than that. Wow.
Lol what Echo fans
I think the problem with Echo's Kingpin is the same problem with every Disney product recently, you can't have a man look strong. It's pathetic and extremely insecure on their part, but they have destroyed countless IP's simply because to them, man bad, woman good. That is also why their heroines suck. They can't see how awfully they are being written because a woman can't be bad no matter how cruel or selfish she acts. Accountability and responsibility seem to be a foreign concept to the Disney writers regarding the female characters.
They did not destroy him and have some woman take his place. Still, the force of the horrible writing was strong in this one.
Accountability and responsibility are 2 things American women are not trying to learn and it shows in media.
I don't know if you are trying to make this point, but characters aren't written poorly just because they are bad people.
Disney writers are like the Company itself: acquire something they didn't build, and end up destroying it because they don't bother to understand it.
@@joshuacr no, they absolutely destroyed him. He was already destroyed in Hawkeye lol.
Kingpin is the most infamous villains in Marvel history yet they reduced him from being alpha to a beta in just 5 years. Need I say more?
More like sigma
b"EtA"
@SubZero-hs9xc I think I need more context. What is the "EtA" supposed to mean?
@@mechgouki7999 Sigma is how people say about John Wick & Michael Corleone. Don't even think of making Echo's Kingpin like that.
Tf that even mean
Of course they had her say it was time for a Queenpin to take over. Like, it almost was a goddamn requirement for her to say something like this. XD
I'm Sure Kathleen Kennedy had it in some show contract somewhere.
I don't know why they never added it to the flashbacks, but in the Hawkeye series, she didn't initially believe Fisk ordered the hit on her dad. She only believed it after her best friend/second in command admits it and reveals that he knew the whole time. They really should've added it for context.
The one thing i was really hoping they would touch on is why he had her father assassinated. They hint it was to take ownership of her, but I was hoping he would directly give his motive. It just seems random to me
that's actually a very important point cause they never even say why he was killed, was he robbing kingpin? maybe he switched sides or became a snitch for the cops? we will never know i guess.
The same reason he kills anyone this way: Any person that hurts someone he cares for ends up dead, subtly or not. Since it was her father, the killing had to be the former.
Kingpin could jave just order a very expensive hearing aid for Maya when she was a kid, and maybe when she betrayed him as a punishment he takes away her hearing
That....... Actually sounds like a very logical thing to do.
Or he could have learned sign language, but he did neither .. because the current writers at Disney/Marvel suck.
@@AscendantStoic That actually makes no sense considering that in Daredevil he secretly learned Mandarin and Japanese in order to spy on what his allies were saying. He became fluent in those two languages just for a small edge yet wouldn't learn sign language for his daughter? I don't think so.
@@AscendantStoiche actually did if you pay attention in Hawkeye
@@coolshiznit13 Then why he isn't using it in Echo, Wtf are you on about?
Alteori , I think that you would really enjoy Kingpin in the Netflix Daredevil series. He was everything a villain should be. The viewers feared Fisk because he had brains, money, power… and they *knew* that he was capable of messing Daredevil up, and that he was ruthless in achieving his goals.
Fisk and Echo had an adoptive father/daughter relationship in the comics as well, but it was handled better. And they didn’t start with the “shoot-him-in-the-head” scene. What a dumb waste of an emotional scene that needed the buildup to be powerful.
Very simply kingpin should have been a master manipulator in the show, they should have shown him having strings all over and that even if maya did go home to her family, all of that was still kingpins plan, maybe that he even had the small towns police in his poket or that he controlled the entire towns government if it meant still having an eye on maya, that would be a substantial threat but that would mean letting a man be more dangerous and powerful than maya, no she has to pull random native American powers out of nowhere to win
I was thinking something similar. Why not show him manipulating her by acting all loving. Then have someone who question his actions, at which point he would explain, in a menacing way, the best general is always the one that would lay down their life for you if you asked. Takes investment to create that kind of general. After which he kills the man for questioning him.
But that would require decent writing, silly!
You know the worst part? I almost believe they were trying to copy Arcane and simply botched every step!
Powder/jinx - Young orphaned girl who had her adopted father end up killing her dad before taking her in, raising her, training her, and ultimately caring for her even when she shot him dead he didn't blame her.
Echo - Echo of a good idea, butchered by them hacking apart any points that might make her look bad, ignore the parts that make her look worse, and then have her claim victory and ignore everything she had done up until this point.
Seriously they added NEW POWERS to make her even more powerful when her comic book counterpart version can simply act like Task Master and copy anyone's fighting style.
Seriously! Easy nobody to great fighter power there! Just have her spend a few months with someone good at fighting (better use of cameos for their male shoe ins meant to save it by trailors) to make her really good, really fast, and not make it sound like she is pulling out whatever power or skill is needed at the moment to make you question that if you removed her powers... would she in fact be utterly worthless?
As her cowboy ancestor apparently had this same power meaning the moment she picked up a gun and claimed she could fight... actually implied she never handled a gun before and wasn't a fighter meaning everyone else was right for telling her to go back since they didn't know she magically became an ace gun fighter due to sudden magic super powers!
It's obvious to see that the focus of the writers was purely to check boxes and all they could think about was how stunning and brave their rendition of this comic book character will be, probably praised each other for it. The villain was just a side note that as just there to fill the villain role.
It's like organising a D&D game and wasting all your time customising your character and their back story while neglecting to arrange a talented dungeon master.
You have GOT to watch the first season of Daredevil, the Kingpin (same actor) is absolutely terrifying in it. Second season too, but the overall quality of the show dropped a bit in the second season. The first is pure gold though.
Tho if you continue on and endure defenders, season 3 is also really good!
Also jessica jones is pretty good too. Also punisher… others you really don’t have to see, and just watch defenders.
I see it's too...painful for you to mention the third Daredevil season? Nuff said.
@@joshuacr It was good.
I lose respect when people don’t bring up season 3 Kingpin. He was best in.
You are not just talking facts Wilson Fisk in this new Echo video you are preaching. Disney + has completely destroyed him I miss Wilson Fisk from Daredevil’s seasons 1 to 3 originally on Netflix.
I mean they bought all the rights to netflix series why not just use them as is… them trying to vaguely keep some aspect and not the exact same character is really getting annoying…
@@AppleFrogTomatoFace it’s for financial reasons. Marvel is cheapening out by not paying royalties to the people who made the first 3 seasons. That’s the reason why Born Again was a soft reboot of sorts instead of Season 4. But now they’re course correcting and seems like they’re gonna turn Born Again into essentially Daredevil S4 after getting backlash.
“Kingpin felt like nothing more than a glorified St. Bernard donning a white suit.”
I’d say more of an extra chunky pug who won’t stop whining, but sure.
'donning' 😬
@@toolegittoquit_001 yes, donning means wearing. What's the problem?
PLEASE watch Daredevil! That show actually made the Kingpin really threatening! Heck there was this one scene where a guy offed himself because he said his name
Kingpin didn't even fight till the end. He got one tap and confused
LMAO
This was my ex-wife's fantasy. She made the villain cry and understand why he was wrong.
It's not that different from the atrocious "Have you tried not being a dick" scene from Antman Quantumania 😅
Kingpin survives a gun shot to the head through the eye.
The rings of power school of writing.
Star Wars School of writing: Hold my lightsaber. With your gut.
@@mechgouki7999 yep, that too.
Not only survives but his other eye is *there* ! The "magic" of crimelord funding.
@@joshuacr Yes that too 🤣, I think you need a mawler video to point out all the dumb stuff in this show.
Btw the og Netflix kingpin would just have let Maya go be with her family not thrown a man baby hissy fit like the show one does
In the Netflix show he was a smart character
He would have had a whole scheme years in the making that would have made them all long-term suffer for what she did to him. Not this temper tantrum shell.
This is how a badass villain presents himself!
*"None of you seem to understand. I'm not locked in here with you. You're locked in here with ME!"*
- Rorschach
.... Ehm
One of my favorite lines!!
Why are they saying " She's not an actor. " ? Like they take pride in it, Im like " I can see shes not." No matter what's going on, her face doesn't change.
I thought earlier reviewers were exaggerating the badness of this show. They were not. This was *not* the Kingpin we saw both in the comics and in the prior Daredevil (etc.) shows we saw him in before. (So yes, this Kingpin iteration was worse for us Kingpin fans.) Other scenes that were mentioned "missing" were from the Hawkeye series. She did not "automatically" believe Hawkeye, or a hell of Kingpin day with that prior knowledge, but again you need to see other things to see that development. Like knowing anybody who annoys Kingpin's family enough gets beaten. Huge problem with standalone series development as a key point. And a absentee character as noted. Just...pathetic. ("Ridiculous" is also an acceptable word.)
Kingpin from Daredevil will forever be the best Marvel villain. He was terrifying, even when he wasn't on screen. So much so that you couldn't even say his name. Echo really crapped on his character and I know it's a nitpick but they didn't even get the right hammer for this show
You have to love the pristine writing misdirection to accidentally make the hero the biggest villain of the show while making the villain softer than the quiet kid at school. Ironically enough, these writers make sympathetic villains based solely on the fact that compared to the protagonist the villains have manners, some charm, and... what's this... an actual personality?!
These writers need to leave their Echo chamber and go back to college or use traditional storytelling. Assuming they know how..
Sad part is that, allegedly, they do know how. I'm minoring in screenwriting at my college and the professors encourage us to use traditional storytelling. Hell, most of the example works that are shown in classes are works like Mad Men, Raiders of the Lost Ark, etc. None of the "girlbossified" nor overly PC stories are really shown. These writers and executives just don't care for whatever reason.
Echo's abilities in the comics was so cool, she could mimic or "Echo" the fighting styles of her opponents like taskmaster. But in the show she has stereotypical Native American super powers, idk it fealt like a super lame version of the Ancestral plane like in Black Panther.
It’s funny how into the Spiderverse had a good Kinbpin.
A man who’s evil was revealed to his family that got them killed. Making him despise Spider-Man, and want to take his mistake back. So obsessed with that idea he would kill countless versions of his family just so he could live just a bit longer with his family.
Being evil behind closed doors is very difficult since one day there will be a crack in the door. Losing his family made him so mad he literally killed the man he thought was the cause of it.
That was a good kingpin.
No idea how he’s so hard to make good. A mobster a lot of people know he is, but can’t do anything to stop him permanently. Since he’s so important the second he’s gone the city goes into chaos. There needs to be a kingpin, or crime goes out of control. Since kingpin had a family he wanted protected, he couldn’t have crime everywhere.
What I don't understand is:
The animated version of Kingpin's voice sound more like Hammerhead, why not just recast the same live-action actor to voice him?
I watched all 3 seasons of Daredevil with my family, and my dad LOVES Kingpin, he kept asking me will the fat guy returns after Daredevil cameoed in No Way Home, but I don't want to break his heart so I said no
Tell your dad to wait for Daredevil: Born again. Best we all act like Echo never existed (Just like something named "Highlander 2.")
I have absolutely no hope for that show considering it’s being made by the same company that butchered daredevil and kingpin and also recasted all my favorite characters.
Same I watched Daredevil with My dad but I Will never show him this continuation
Robots writing this show? it’s more like mindless sheep not only did they ruin kingpin they just had to ruin Daredevil some more!
At least AI is consistent in its hallucinations.
These shows should not be reviewed they don't deserve the attention they get.
Wilson Fisk in Daredevil was terrifying and Vincent D’onofrio’s performance was brilliantly complex and subtle.
Love the new outro. Your little character is the most adorable thing. I love listening to a little fancy fox tell me about how movies suck.
Hell yeah. This new Outro is much better. Love the upgrade
ive seen 2 vids n have subbed looking forward too what else you create
I want to recommend you the daredevil series, but if you watch it you will develop a hulk of a rage at how they nuked Kingpin.
They broke my freakin' heart!
“The armpit hair that is Echo.”
I absolutely lost it🤣
She's got the power to heal, then never uses it to fix her missing leg or her deafness
*Bonus Comment: I hope Alteori illustrates a Comic Book of her own and run the Art as a Series on her Channel...a hundred times I'm sure more fun than these turd offerings
The 90s Spiderman cartoon was my Kingpin. Slimy, cunning, manipulative, always had one up on anyone that thought they could get close enough to hurt him. If he didn't have it on hand, he'd find it within a week. If he couldn't find it. Quote, "Let's see what 300 pounds of pure muscle can do." Wilson Fisk.
Thank you!!! I have been comparing this to a CW show for months. How far they've fallen!
Liking the new outro dude
I genuinely do not care about this show, I’d rather watch Batman and Robin.
Kingpin was a brutal and dangerous villian in the Netflix series. Then Disney got a hold of him, neutered Fisk.
You know a show's "stylistic choice" is bad when you run into the "video plays without sound" glitch on RUclips mobile and you're somewhat convinced that the video itself is silent as a joke.
You are definitely right that seeing Kingpin be so pathetic was more upsetting for those who know the character. Especially upsetting since this is the same man who delivered arguably the best depiction of Fisk/Kingpin in the Netflix Daredevil series.
Also, clearly those writers got the definition of hero and villain backwards.
PS: I feel like I sometimes watch your vids for the outro music.
Hello Alteori.
The first time I heard of Kingpin is the old Spiderman tv series 1994. Then he plays a role in the DareDevil series on NETFLIX.
Anyway, another great video, Alteori, I like it, see you in the next video.
"I really wish that I could watch a show where you can FEEL the 3 episodes cut from it" - Someone, apparently
Watching only Echo will give you very little context for the actual "plot," like most half baked Marvel shows these days, you're required to watch another show, in this case Hawkeye, beforehand to get an actual introduction to Echo. Echo still has 0 character but there you at least learn that Clint murdered Echo's dad, or her dad had a hit on him, I forget, but Kingpin orchestrated it which is why the show happens in the first place. It's shoddy, it's lazy, and it's a borderline trainwreck, but whatelse should we expect from Marvel
It also explains why Kingpin is all hurt. He'd just been beat up by another young lady who had no business not getting crushed by him (nothing against Kate, I actually liked her)
@@silver9wolf6 Kate had something going for her, emphasis on had, like an Iron Man and Spiderman mentorship type thing with Hawkeye, it's just a shame they had to M-She-U her and make her presence another stain on Marvel
Netflix daredevil and punisher version of king pin was absolutely brutal, intense and brilliant.
You NEED to do one on Robyn hood.
The evil bad guy is literally just a rich business man who gets robbed by them. That's it...
People seem to have this strange idea that all you need to do to save certain franchises is bring back characters people liked before with the same actor but they're wrong. It doesn't matter who you bring back if the writing and directing are shit
2:51:
"A ninja came out of nowhere and skewered him."
Pretty much.😂
What I really liked about Kingpin circa season 3 Daredevil was that he felt like a really good chess player. Two steps ahead, knowing what move people are going to make and countering, making people feel cornered and desperate. I know we were never going to get that out of him from Disney but they somehow manage to exceed my expectations in terms of disappointment.
@Alteori >>> Great video...👍
Same thing with The Punisher. Frank in his own show he wanted to live a normal life, he was merciful, he was too fatherly, too emotional and he gets his face beaten a lot.
Everything you expected/wanted from Kingpin was accomplished in Season 1 of Netflix’s Daredevil. Even in his brief appearance in season 2, he was intimidating, imposing, and had gravitas. Season 3 was icing on the cake with how it all wrapped up.
Echo is a Abomination that shouldn’t exist and the MCU truly forgot how to right Villains.
I wasn't sold on the Daredevil netflix show at first until I witnessed kingpin's portrayal. I wanted to see how he would challenge daredevil, as tormented as he already was.
I also feel like the whole Kingpin premise/motivation is flawed. Okay so Kingpin and Echo have a family connection yet in Hawkeye aka Ep 1 which was basically a recap of that show but with just a smidge more context. Anyway Echo shots Kingpin right in the eye and he somehow survives. Disney really enjoys the somehow survived villain. So Kingpin wakes up and is what... all love and forgiveness after an attempt on his life. Yeah I'm not buying that yet alone he wants to hand over his empire to her. Like if my sibling tried to kill me I ain't going to laugh it off and hand over my bank account details.
Then there's the why her? Did it seem like he was gearing her up for taking over. I didn't get that vibe but then again I only watched reviews so I might have missed something? Was he taking her to important deals? Was she planning her own jobs or rackets? Did she have her own people under her? She might his daughter but that doesn't guarantee succession that's not how crime families work. She was an assassin and possible high ranking henchman but if she was in a high position of power like a lower mafia leaders then where are her contacts or people? Why wasn't she using the fact she is his daughter to make a power play straight after she killed him? Five months later she wants to burn his empire to the ground but then also considers accepting a deal to take over? Like she had to be considering it as she didn't kill him when she met him.
But hey maybe I missed something.
I forget what his prior appearance was, either dare devil, or punisher but maybe he changed after the whole prison arc
He did not. Just recognize bad Echo writing for what it is.
Disney plan. Have kingpin lose to Kate Bishop by herself. Have Kingpin lose to Echo by herself. Have Kingpin then fight all Street level heroes including Spider-Man and Daredevil. Gezz I wonder who going to win.
Girl Power? *flees*
I’m glad you were able to evaluate Kingpin based solely on _Echo,_ but his portrayal is a million times worse if you’re familiar with how _Daredevil_ previously portrayed him. Fisk’s first victim on that show wasn’t a rude ice cream man - it was a hardened Russian mobster who’d slightly inconvenienced him, and whom Fisk nearly decapitated with a car door. And rather than relying on an app to communicate with them, Fisk secretly learned Mandarin and Japanese so he could listen in on two of his associates, whom he correctly identified as potential threats. I really feel bad for Vincent D’Onofrio - I’m sure when Disney asked him to play Kingpin again, he was expecting to play THAT Kingpin, not the neutered simp we got on _Echo._
Kingpin in this show, it's like them putting weight in Khan being revealed in Into Darkness, longtime Trek fans know who Khan is but not the characters in the movie or new people viewers of the movie. 😆
This maybe a broken record, but I'd like to hear you compar and contrast Kingpin from the Netflix to this. As someone introduce to the character from through Echo first.
Again, highly endorse seeing the original Netflix Daredevil.
Seriously man who even IS echo
This is literally the plot to Jet Li's Unleashed, but executed far worse and way too rushed. They could've really pulled off this plot had they given the story and script more time to set in and marinate with the audience.
They ruined King Pin by making him beat up an ice cream man. That's not King Pin. He would rarely ever get his own hands dirty. If he wanted to teach the ice cream man a lesson it would have been through his connections and ruin the guys life. That's scary. Beating up the ice cream man was not.
I agree. I'd also like to add Captain Marvel and Star Wars Rey are villains as well.
That goes double for Captain Marvel
I said this once I’ll say it twice Alteori stop punishing yourself by watching this crap
As a reader of the Astonishing Spider-Man and Ultimate comics, Kingpins power 80% of the time lay in his ability to bank account some of the most heinous and troublesome villains for Spider-Man.
Not to mention his ability to tank right and left hooks from Spider-Man, even if he did hold back all the time.
I'm chilling in my 'No-nonsense' hammock, no longer aggrieved at the state of Marvel or Star Wars.
I just make a conscious decision to not watch Any of the trash released or on the horizon.
Marvel has always had a hard time with villains. I’m beginning to assume that they just purely luck into Thanos being as good as he was.
They cut it from 8 eps to 5, which gives you an idea of just how bad it is. You should see D'Onofrio's promo vid....the expression on his face when he says that he has to work with what the writers gave him lmao.
That clip was telling 😳
They started ruining his character in Hawkeye. In this show, they really went all out.
No kidding in the comics and past media Kingpin is cunning cruel and ruthless. He will do anything to achieve his goals even if he has to sacrifice those who are close to him. My favorite portrayal of him is the 90's spider man cartoon series voice by the late Roscoe Lee Browne and he told his son sacrifices must be made.
I didnt even know this was out
Hi Alteori
They cut 3 eps, but as usual, they weren't particularly careful about what they cut and what they left.
“We can fix it and make it better.” -Disney Executive (probably)
For everyone here, my Kingpin is “Michael Clarke Duncan”, bless his soul. Even though he was black, he WAS the impersonation of The King Pin. Big, huge, large, low voice. I was scared for Daredevil in that one. He was taking the entire screen and felt like he was 2 times the size of Ben Affleck.
I feel like this video misses the point of Kingpin’s inclusion. He isn’t meant to be a villain in the Echo storyline. He’s more like the devil on Maya’s shoulder.
The story is all about how Maya is at a crossroads in her life, choose a life of villainy and become a “queenpin” or choose her family and heal from her traumas.
Once Maya embraces her family she’s already too strong for Fisk.
That’s why there wasn’t any huge dumb 3rd act battle, because Maya’s family had stopped everything that Fisk had planned to destroy the powwow.
The story as I saw it was more about Kingpin trying to have Maya join the dark side once again, but Maya needs to “release her from the bindings of her teachers” (a lyric from the intro) to purge the evil inside. The show’s villain is Maya’s inner turmoil.
And here I was wishing Disney continued the Netflix Daredevil series. It should have remianed canceled.
They can't help themselves. They just HAVE to portrait every man as a loser, even the villain who is supposed to be a threat.
On the first season of Daredevil he took someone head off with a car door
You are right.They ruined Kingpin.
You say "dogwater/tears", I say "dogshit"
The first episode of echo was confusing, because it was recapping events from the Hawkeye series, which is where we were introduced to Maya and her backstory. All though her backstory in that series, started from her struggling in school, all the way up to her father’s death. Also the reason Kingpin was all beat up at the start, was because he was hit by a car moments before, in the Hawkeye series. But overall, I do agree that the series was a flop. At first it seemed interesting, but it just got all over the place and boring.. I agree that Maya was just putting everyone in danger and as a character was very uninteresting. The only remotely interesting part of her character was her backstory in my opinion. I also hated the ending of the series. Also how did Kingpin survive the bullet to the face? From what I have seen, people say he’s human, so what the hell? I also found the fights to be meh. Also her having superpowers was a big “why?”, for me. The ending was complete trash, the way Kingpin was taken down was so bad it was laughable. They were so focused on representation, that they couldn’t even develop plot. I think it would have been more interesting to see Maya losing herself to become Queenpin, or getting manipulated by kingpin, into going back and becoming his puppet. But this series was barley a series. It was 5 episodes, and nothing really happens in the course of said 5 episodes. They just kept dragging it out, it was boring and uneventful.
Oh, the show made my IQ drop like 50%.... the show made me cringe into a double monkey back flip 😬 2:34
Agreed. It was the trans fat of the TV shows.
You can see the desperation of Disney/Marvel when they officially canonize Marvel Netflix shows. I have no hope for Daredevil Born Again and even Punisher since they still have skill issue
I have the smallest iota of hope that they had to fire everybody 'cause they finally realized the bullshit that was being produced. Time will tell, but this is the final shot before I turn all Disney off.
i don't need to hear from 40 year old white guys why the kingpin doesn't work as a villain, it wasn't made for you.
Haven’t watched echo, but by the sounds of it the first episode is just a recap of what happened in Hawkeye, so essentially if you didn’t see Hawkeye your missing half the info for this show
Above i will add now that they canonized the netflix series,
It creates some bug holes.
Especially how the kingpin of the flashback was very different from the kingpin of the start of Daredevil
And other events are not exactly like that
Does the show address when and how Kingpin got out of prison?
It would’ve been a great show if they hired the writers from Netflix’s Daredevil.
Edit: I like your breakdown of Harry and Thanos. Same goes for Two-Face in the Dark Knight. It’s harder to do in one film, yet Nolan nailed it.
Remember when Punisher and Kingpin had that awesome fight. I ‘member