If a Japanese manufacturer made a 500cc 'Honda 300 Rally' equivalent, it would be a huge success... 50-60hp, ≥160kg, 6th 'tall' gear, range of 350-400km, services 8,000-10,000km- That'll be my everything bike.
Exactly why I bought a DR650, mine is not buzzy, I love singles. Put $2,000 into it and it's perfect for me and all under $10,000. I don't need all the bs riding modes, abs or quick shift and I can figure out which gear I'm in without a special readout or a blinking light for gas level and I can fix anything on it without a computer and 6 month wait for parts. Over 250 mile range with my tank and a little piece of plastic above the headlight keeps wind off my chest, cruises freeway all day at 75. Maintenance? What maintenance.
If the Dr 650 was modernized with fuel injection, upgraded suspension, maybe a 6th gear and few other adjustments and suddenly you have the perfect adventure bike, at least for myself anyways. I will note the Dr isn't 70 horsepower, but it's so reliable that I don't care, besides it's got plenty of torque. In my opinion the current Dr 650 model which hasn't changed since 1996 with a few mods is one of the best 50-50 options out there. The potential for the Dr 650 to be better overall is certainly possible.
Yeah baby!!!! I agree, A good motor, a good fuel system, brakes, tranny, suspension and awesome frame with no electronics (except legal lights), one gauge (temp gauge to avoid nastiness) pick your tires.
I have to agree with the DR 650 fans here. I sold my DRZ 400 and my Triumph tiger and replaced both with the DR 650. While it is not as good a street/touring bike as the tiger, nor as good a dirt bike as the DRZ, it is truly a great motorcycle and a total hoot to ride, no matter where I ride it. That torquey motor is its own reward.
It is not about spending 50/50 time on- and offroad. It is about having a bike that can do both as good as possible. Even if I spend only 5% off my time off road, I want those 5% to be as enjoyable as possible.
Great video with excellent points. I too have multiple bikes and agree with your general assessment. But you overlooked another opportunity that seems possible. A DRZ400 with a 6 speed transmission and fuel injection. That's probably why you have the Honda 450.
I'm pretty happy with the KTM 690 Enduro R. Some mods are needed to help it be the bike I want it to be but it was pretty close right out of the crate. Coming off an extremely moded KLR, the KTM is light years ahead of it. It vibrates a LOT less and oil change intervals at 6,200 miles don't seem too often to me. I will still change it every 4k miles or so but I would do the same on a DR or KLR as well. I get the point though. I have 6 bikes and they all serve a purpose. Keep up the videos. I enjoy watching.
I have owned a klr, 690, t7 and Ktm 500exc. The 690 is as close as you can get to the unicorn. But man do I love my 500exc. If I have learned anything, you need multiple bikes.
My friend's 690 SM had the frame crack. No reason. No crashes, the guy is not big on wheelies. Just broke next to where the frame slider is. If KTM's were reliable...
If you put bark busters with the built in handle bar weights on your singles you kiss most of the vibration goodbye. I have a exc500 and absolutely love it! I don't think I'll ever get rid of it.
CRF ~400cc Rally ~40hp with better suspension than 300 rally and similar service intervals for 2 or 3k more. I think it would sell. Don't need a twin, just decent balancing.
Very true. I'm selling my Tenere and get 1) an Africa Twin and 2) a WR450F. Both great in their field whilst the Tenere is questionable in both unless you are Pol Tarres...
Ya, I would have to agree, I have 2, at one point had 3, but in the end, more money,more bikes an bigger stable is the only solution to this problem. You go to bed and wake up thinking...which bike am I going to ride today.....
Chinese companies like CFMoto may surprise us and get closer to a unicorn bike. Your definition of a unicorn is different than how I and many would define it though. For me, it would be something like a WR450R with a 4-5 gallon tank, basic windscreen, comfortable seat, 40HP, sub 350lb weight, and service intervals similar to the WR250R I currently own.
I’m buying the Kove 450 Rally for that reason. 370lbs wet with an 8 gallon fuel tank, 51hp 450cc single with liquid cooling, ABS, and 11 inches of suspension travel. Its the closest to the unicorn we will get
I share your vision of the unicorn bike, as well as your belief that the Chinese will probably give us a lightweight ADV bike with enough HP to comfortably cruise on the highway when needed. The reason the big Japanese and European manufacturers refuse to give us the bike we want is because they don't want to detract from their big ADV bike sales. They belatedly and reluctantly added a small ADV bike to their lineup but positioned it not to be the best it could be, but rather to be a beginner bike to get customers on the upgrade path to their $15K bloated mid size or $25K full size maxi bloated ADV pig. I love my G310GS, but it's really singing at 75 MPH on the highway, however the real crime against humanity is the 2.9 gallon fuel tank. That's an unforgivable sin on an ADV bike.
Yes. We have a goon! Seriously, we had a good compromise with the Honda XL/XR 500 models. Later, replaced by the XL/XR600-650 models (depending on the markets). I had tons of fun riding my XR500 in on/off road conditions. This changed when I fitted the XR engine in a C&J frame. Then it became a pure off-road bike.
I purchased my 2012 F800 with this in mind. I cut a bunch of weight, added 21” x 18” steel wheels, let Racetech create great suspension. I had about the closest thing I could get my hands on. I’ve been enjoying it for a long time now and it just keeps on going. In my garage it’s my dirt bike.
When I look at adventure bike videos, I want to try them. I then realize, if I bought one, I would still ride my dirt bike more, because that is what I enjoy more. Unless you are Chris Birch, who is sponsored by KTM, most of us will not enjoy an adventure bike in the dirt. They are too heavy. Thanks for your video.
Yep , balance the wheels on your enduro bike , fit a big tank. If ya haven’t already 😉. Best adventure bike you well get if ya don’t ride 500k tar sections.
Nice work. But I do have to say... I think your 70-90 hp benchmark is overkill. If your bike weights 400lbs or less, than 40 hp will propel you enough to overtake whenever you want ( normal circumstances) ,and you will accelerate faster than MOST cars.The DR650 fits the bill. And it's cheaper than your 5 figure. And yes I was scammed with my 1st bike when I bought a cb500x thinking I was going to enjoy it offroad. Got a DR now! Cheers
I too have DR650. I saved so much on the purchase price, I upgraded the carburetor to a pro jet kit, Leo Vince exhaust, Cogent Mojave suspension. Easily cruises 75 mph. But can go 95+ for passing. Of course it’s a dirt monster!
Great video mate. I think the latter point is the most likely. In my humble opinion the reason this bike doesn't exist is because we all think we are better riders than we actually are. The reality is every bike in production is more capable than 99% of the riders. The bikes are not the limiting factor. Case in point Pol Tarres finishing top 10 in Erzberg on a light weight enduro rocket ship and 77th on a Teneree 700. We want to much out of our bikes. The reality is the light weight adventure bike does exist albeit with minor modification. KTM 690, AJP PR7, SWM 500 (wider range gearbox) , WR 450. The bikes are not the limiting factor, we are. Having said that KTM should produce the 690 enduro and husqvaran the 701 rally and problem solved. We all have so many complaints because we are soft as ferk. Oh my bike is to heavy (get stronger), oh my suspension is to soft ( lose weight) oh my bike doesn't handle well enough (get better) oh this single is buzzy (harden up). Rant over lol.
Exactly, I run an old 450 EXC for fun, for real fun my Aprilia RXV 550, twin cylinder, 126kg full of fuel and 72hp supermoto spec engine. It can be done!
Great video. I am not a 50/50 rider, and I will never be one, but I would love to see something like CRF 450 Rally (that has 300 Rally service intervals) or T5. I would buy that bike without hesitation.
There have been a few that came close. The old KTM 640 Adventure had a 7 gallon tank and weighed about 400 lbs fully fueled. It had a payload capacity of around 440 lb and pillion pegs. It had a great long-travel suspension. It was related to the 660 race bikes that KTM used to win the Dakar circa 2000. Shortcomings were a minimal wind screen and a very buzzy engine. It didn't sell very well -- in fact, I never even heard of the thing until long after it went out of production. Currently the AJP PR7 is not far off from unicorn status. It weighs about 364 lb wet. It has a 4.5 gallon under-seat tank that keeps the weight centralized. More than 11" of suspension travel. It has reasonably long maintenance intervals and it has a rally-tower wind screen. It is a thumper, so it won't be as smooth as some twins, but the biggest issue is that it isn't street legal everywhere. As for the KTM 690 Enduro ... it's a good bike, but KTM (for some inexplicable reason) has steered it away from unicorn land. It has one of the best thumpers ever made (powerful and with long maintenance intervals), a decent suspension, and a good frame. But, it doesn't have a real sub-frame to support luggage, it doesn't have even a rudimentary wind screen, and it doesn't have a wide-ratio transmission. That last one is a real crime, because the 690 is light enough to handle moderately-difficult single track, but you can't gear it down enough for single-track without making it scream on the highway.
I used to own one. "Buzzing" is an understatement and the oil change with the oil running in the frame was a pain in the behind. I now own a 500EXC and it's better everywhere sans the fuel range and payload capacity. Like he said, everything's a compromise.
@@alessandrogomesaraujo4206 I don't see a 660E anywhere ... there was the 660Z, which is similar to the KTM 640 Adventure, except with 3" less suspension travel, 10% less power, a gallon less fuel, and 50 lb more curb weight. It did have a better wind screen though, and the engine was probably less vibey.
@@C_R_O_M________ I've owned a 640 since 2003 and the vibration keeps me off of it unless I have it in the California desert where it's amazing. I had a 450 EXC and it was great off road but horrible on the street. I've had various dirt bikes and currently have a KTM 350xc-f. I'd love to replace my 640 with a modern day version. I don't want to be putting a kit on a 690 enduro.
If you have multiple bikes you’ve already failed the test of being a 50/50 rider. But for those of us who can only afford/want one bike that does both well, that’s the market. By having multiple bikes you’re more in the enthusiast category, and therefore disqualify yourself from needing a 50/50 machine. The market is for people that don’t have the coin, desire, space to have multiple machines sitting around that we can jump on when the need arises.
I’m in the market, and I already own three bikes. The unicorn bike I have in mind probably will never exist. But if it did, I would still own multiple bikes, because I enjoy the uniqueness of them all. 🤘
It looks like so many of us would like to see a crf450l rally with similar maintenance intervals as the 300l , but I think that Honda knows that if they bring that bike, it will affect the sales of the 300l and maybe the sales of the 450rl and besides that,it looks most manufactories need an engine that can be used in at least 3 different models to make profit out of their investments Cheers 🏍️
I agree on the technical points of the difficulty in manufacturing a sub 400# twin. It's gonna be real difficult while keeping it reasonably priced and maintaining reliability. I disagree somewhat on the 50/50 rider. It's not the amount of time I spend on each surface (dirt/asphalt), it's that I want to bike to perform (as close to) optimally under most conditions, even if it's more like 70/30 (dirt/street). As an example - I did 1,400 miles across SW/SE Oregon back in September. I planned a route that stayed on as much dirt as possible. But, I did have to bail out on the pavement a couple of times and covered 100-150 miles or so at a time. Having a twin (Yamaha T-7) makes that so much more enjoyable than a single. Having that same capability on the road, but about 75# less weight on the dirt would open up even more terrain. If someone does make a sub 400# twin, then I think the horsepower will be where the tradeoff is made, say a 500-600 cc with 60 or so hp.
Because a lightweight and reasonable price adventure bike will fucked up their bottom line since all of the other line up will be relegated to nothing. Imagine, for example, a CB500x motor with a body like the CRF300L, abs, 21-inch front wheel, and no crap electronics, at 7000 USD. No one will go for the ktms or the teneres unless they need the HP, and let's face it, most traveling adventure riders won't need more than 50 hp.
This is why I'm old school at this point and ride two bikes: 2005 R1200GS and a 2022 Husqvarna FE 501S. That combo was solid in 2005 and it's solid now. I'd love an 890 Adventure R, but then I'd have to look at it and it would be worse than both bikes I have.
The ktm 690 isn't buzzy. Oil change intervals are 6k miles. Its the unicorn you speak of, but too heavy for ohv trails in the pnw. I hope they make a 390 enduro that weighs less than 300lbs and costs less than $8,000.
Please don’t go on the 300l its a better step only for honda. The wr250r is still superior to it. Plus thehonda is boring and heavy. Maybe a 500 twin on a long travel suspension setup. 60 hp and 325 wet! Yamaha could do it!
I bought one and I love it. The handling and suspension is very good. The engine has plenty of power for highway cruising, and plenty of low end grunt to lug around off road. It is easy to plate in my state, but not in others.
I just want them to put twin tanks of the 450L and a rally tower for styling. Call it the 450L rally... then make it around the tenere price tag. I'd buy a single with twin tanks and rally looks. Hell yeah... unfortunately if I want a rally bike atm, I'm looking at spending 30k.
Hi Mate-Rider, I want try to reset my backround to reborn and giving importance to things they didn't have it ... ... it's all in our mind / WE MUST CHANGE ( My 44th Bike , after the last Africa Twin Adv Sport 2018, just little heavy , and Husky 701 (Fragile cams) it's a new Honda 300 L Rally 2022 //// It was not easy but I had prepared myself 😘 and after 4 months and 8000 km, I believe I'm reaching my balance now //// YES I spend other 4000€ in addition for many parts / suspension + exhaust + rims + remap ECU + footpegs and other parts , but I have my little UNICORN now ..... and I'm HAPPY but we must reset. Maybe we really have to lose something to earn something else in a new unknown horizon, Sorry for my english Luca (Milan Italy)
Riders who focus too much on modern models talk about all the negatives about single cylinders, but that doesn't stop the popularity of bikes like the DR650. You judge too harshly when you say" they're so vibratey it's unridable". I'd go so far as to say the DR650 is in the running for top 5 bikes taken around the world.
Aprillia's 550 RXV was as close as this earth 🌍 will ever see to a perfect design. It needed a Dakar Rally fairing and larger tank, but the H.O. Twin is what is needed. I would also like to see a front wheel electric motor for slow speed acceleration or off the line torque and regenerative braking.
@@BornAGoon the other issue is curb weight includes fuel. This means that the larger the range the heavier it appears to be. These bikes should always be measured using "dry weight".
Should be able to build up your Honda for light adventure with 20L onboard around 330lbs. Probably get a KTM500 built up similarly closer to 300lbs. Would sure be sweet to see Yamaha step up to the table with a dual sport WR500. Thanks for keeping the dream alive.
This is why I chose the Husky 701 SM as my ride. I am and always will be predominantly a road rider. I like the idea of offroading, but apart from the 1 or 2 gravel roads I ride on a year, it makes no sense for me to get anything more dirt biased. The 17s on the supermoto with some nice 80/20 ADV tires is plenty enough for the "offroad" that I do while giving little away on the road. That's where my balance is for me and makes sense for me. Admittedly though, I am thinking going back to a full road sport touring set up. That's just more what I truly am, but still am enjoying the 701. Some of these ADV bikes with some 17s slapped on would be a greatly welcome addition. KTM 890 sport tourer anybody?
Honda already has the perfect platform to build up into the unicorn adventure bike. The xr650l. With a lower seat height, a larger tank, fuel injection and borrowed fairing styling from its little 300 sister honda could tick all the boxes we are asking for. Also the xr650s existing culture and wide aftermarket selection this bike would be a hit among the adventure community. A capable bike that out performs the kawasaki klr, while undercutting the price point of the yamaha T7 and suzuki V strom.
I love my DRZ400 with big tank, slightly lowered and geared up... no trials, MX or freeways, but everything else. Just start by finding tires that both have great asphalt and mud performance...
The 690 enduro doesn't flex like an enduro bike and it is not that buzzy. it also can go 10k kms between oil changes. don't let the "enduro" wording fool you. It is a road bike with off-road pedigree. And the lack of flex is notorious in technical terrain, when compared to a ktm500exc.
I want 50/50 triple/ Omnisport single, so far all ADVs have been overweight with big twins and become heavy pigs off road. Either way, Rieju Aventura 500 Legend and the KOVE 450RALLY set the benchmark. But have to settle for a WR450F, DRZ, XR650R, DR650, G650X Challange, Fe501, 500 Exc or 690/700/701 Enduro.
Take a 690/701 motor, put a wide ratio transmission in it. Put that motor in the old 640 adventure frame (with attachment points for lightweight luggage), with the good suspension from their dirt bikes and people will be lined up to buy it.
Some good points... however I think the market has come close a few times and those bikes have sold well. T7, 500x, 390adv, DRZ400, and various 650 dual sports are all great examples. I dont think the "Unicorn" necessarily needs to be 600+ CC. It just needs to be a competent offroad machine still capable of Decent freeway riding. And to that end I think the sweet spot truly lies in the 400-500cc range. Either a big single or small Ptwin. Rumors have circled about an NX500 Dominator in the works. Wich if it follows through with its traditional Enduro frame with fairings could very well be that bike. KTM is also said to be working on a 490ADV Ptwin that could hit the mark as well.
I would say 500-600 is the sweet spot.50-60hp, higher torque with flat curve. So that it can do 130kmph on a highway with a passenger. Electronically adjustable suspension to behave well on road and off. Around 450lbs/200kg to make it realistic. I think the required power is probably the most overrated thing out of the other criteria. Honda 500x kind of fits those specs, but the frame, suspension, cast wheels and engine are very road oriented. I want a sturdier frame that doesn't use the engine for support. 20+cm ground clearence. Wire wheels. Less power more torque engine with lower revs. I was hoping for something like that from the transalp. But they created a Hornet with bigger wheels. IMO they don't build it because it would mean a completely new platform. New frame, new engine. They rather slightly adjust what they have. They almost nailed with Tenere 700. It could have a bit lower center of gravity. And if they made it 500cc with 50hp and slightly ligher, it would be ideal.
@@vojtal182 200 kg is too much! The old 950 Super Enduro with a 1000CC engine (LC8) weighted less than 200Kg. My 500 EXC weights 130kg and if it had a bigger oil and gas tank it'd be the perfect bike for me. The power is enough. Almost the same power to weight ratio as my old 990 ADV R.
@@C_R_O_M________ Have had all three at the same time, now just the 990A and 500EXCF. Compromises across the board. The 950SE was my favourite but to get any kind of mileage (~120miles) I ran the Exxon Valdez tank which just made it super top heavy and dangerous on single track. The head angle also was more appropriate for high speed desert run than tech single track. That fueling though was a beautiful experience, silky smooth. Carb maint wasn't fun, it sat on the kitchen table for months while I tried to figure it out. The 990A works great on roads (crossed the US on it) once you deal with the buffeting and 150-180 mile range and does easy single track but it's a heavy beast picking it off the ground with luggage. My adventurized 500EXCF is my unicorn bike, as close to perfect as possible for out west. A 200 mile tank, comfortable (relative) seat, ecu, other mods. Can do single track and 100mph sprints on tarmac, but I'm not doing 200 miles on the road without doing some stretching. Change the oil every few thousand miles and it's good to go. Is it perfect? No, but it's close.
The 2019+ KTM 690R has a revised engine and is pretty darn smooth. I think this is a perfect light weight adventure bike with the proper setup. Hopefully KTM we'll realize this too
Once you get on a smooth bike that glides the highway you realize how not smooth that KTM is. There are times when I'll tour 9+hrs a day and the vibrations add up...
KTM 390 ADV is as close as you will get off the shelf; it’s more road based than many want, but put nobblies and a smaller front sprocket and it’s better off-road. The engine is great fun on the road.
Wet weight 379 lbs (172 kg) is way to heavy for serious 50/50, Was surprised how bad the components (brakes clutch etc) were and how poorly the chassis was balanced. The chassis felt clumsy and heavier than 660 Tuareg, T7. It also lacks suspension, spoked wheels, low end grunt, high ground clearance and so forth! 490 Adventure + Enduro might not have been a bit better.. If Norden 501 and 501 Enduro can get Dna from Fe350-701 Enduro, then maybe there is some hope!
This video is so spot on! The adventure motorcycle market is a marketing scam. Just my little humble opinion, adventure should be in the soul of the rider, not the bike he or she rides. Unless someone lives in the middle in the Outback or Patagonia, the rider profile of 50/50 will probably not apply. Bottom line, be happy to be riding on whatever terrain you have available! Great video Mr. Goon! Cheers!
I think an adventure bike would shine on vacations and weekend trips, where you travel far but also do trails. If just used for commuting, there are better options.
I just dont understand. Why adventure people want highway at all? It is sooo boring. And why people want high top speed with a rally style bike at all? Even in Dakar, they just ran a little bit above 100 kph. And 70-100kg of luggage? Seriously.. Why people want so many things? To me, a KTM 350 or 450 EXC-F with a little bit longer service interval is perfection (even when they must sacrify some HPs), even for travel. And no, I dont have plan to go 1000 kms into desert. If I go there alone, I will die anyway.
you have to have 2 bikes unfortunately (I actually love having 2). I use the KTM 500 for overnighters closer to home or more technical, but its terrible on the highway. I recently got the desert x which is the most fun I've ever had on a motorcycle . It feels so light and flickable that I'm using it more than my KTM - and on the road it feels like a sport bike. I put the decat pipe on as well as silencer (SC Project) and it took an additional 12 pounds off the weight which is now just 20 pounds heavier than my old T7 but with a lot more power and way better suspension.
A BMW F650GS twin cylinder weighs just under 400lbs dry, makes 71hp (allegedly), and MSRP would be $12,727USD in 2023 with inflation from the 2010 MSRP. Is this not the unicorn you seek?
Even though the Aprilia Tuareg 660 is just over 400lbs, it is still a good value and close to all the specs that everyone is looking for. I was kind of disappointed when the Transalp 750 when came out more road oriented.
450 lbs / 204.11 kg wet and is way too heavy offroad! What is missing is a DS-Enduro +ADV Rally bike between 300Rally/DRZ - DR650,XR650R/L, Fe501 - 701 Enduro etc.
Very cool video! :D BUT I think you are being a bit "too greedy" with the HP demand... 70-90hp is too much in my opinion. I think it would be more reasonable to ask for a twin that is 50-70hp. That way: 1) it would be easier to stay under the the 400lbs mark 2) it would be easier to stay on the cheaper side 3) The power would be easier to manage on such a lightweight bike (most people cant really handle the 690, its too ready to race) 4) It would have its clear niche, instead of being a little bit of everything. I believe we desperately need something between the CRF300L and the 690, in terms of HP Keep up the AWESOME work man :)
Ah! I want to throw anotnher hat in the ring :D I agree with you that a "true 50-50" bike doesnt make a lot of sense, cause that pratically means it is dull/limited on both environments.. but if then we consider 70-30% bikes, or 30-70% bikes, then perhaps things would make more sense. The thing is... nowadays you have 29391 big/med adventure bikes that fit that 70/30 category (Onroad / Offroad), but almost no bike exists nowadays that fits the 30/70 category, perhaps except the CRF300L, that ultimately "fails" for being so weak. At least here in europe, we lack dual-sports... and I dont mean "performance dualsports" like the ones that are so common on the US, I mean old school dualsports like the DR650, the DRZ400, the TT600, etc... if they could make something like that with a twin, and under 400lbs, that would be sweet! So basically an offroad dedicated bike that is sturdy and big enough to withstand (with limited but some enjoyiment and confort) a long stretch on the road
@@RouteNRide i am not worried about crossing a log, i am worried about the general feel of having a bigger wheel. Those few % of difference affect how everything feels, from easy stuff to hard stuff, and because i am an offroad oriented person, i want the best setup possible. If i see a 19" wheel i know for a fact that bike's offroad performance was compromised and usually a lot more compromises will be done. If 19" is so good, they would be using it in enduro/mx/baja competitions, wouldnt they? Save some weight, lower cg...
You would think that, but try picking it up from the ground. The weight is high up and the bike lies very flat. A GS 1200 is easier to pickup up then a T7. A T5 is what we need, and make it a 2 cylinder for the long interval on the maintenance.
I saved huge buying a used 690 already Adventure modded with everything but more fuel. I plan to add 2 or 3g Rotapax to the rear rack to have at least 400k total range. I hear the KTM 390 Adventure is built in China? Its price makes it probably the best value in a KTM so that may be what KTM has to do with more bikes. KTM please start building an Adventure version of the 690 Enduro that is affordable, even if it's only to ad a rally style fairing from the factory.
Great video. I am struggling with this as I am sure many are. I think the right answer for me is a solid dual sport with a larger fuel tank and soft luggage for those times when I want to travel with it.
For me the focus should be on calming the vibes of a thumper. This and more oil capacity. The parallel twins all have the weight in the wrong spot. 500excf is so close to the unicorn.
True that! There is nothing between CRF300L/Rally, DRZ400 and DR650, XR650L, 690/700/701 Enduro. WR450F, CRF450L/RL, Fe501, 500Exc is close but longer intervals...
sounds like you are looking for a Huky 701 LR with a rally tower/windscreen. I have a 690 with a rally kit and it carries 8gal of fuel, waaay too much fuel, and its very heavy in the dunes even with my front tanks empty I treat it as an ultralight adv bike, right now its about 370 wet. I really want a 450 RFR to shave about 70lbs off my 690 and still get over 70hp, even then my 500 carries 5gal of fuel with a rear tank, that is close to 220 miles of range depending on how I ride. people complain about maintenance intervals on bikes like EXCFs haven't ever done maintenance on a bike that's designed to get into easily. Working on a CRF300 or a WR250R would make me want the longest intervals possible too, but give me an hour and a handful of tools and I'll have washed the bike, oil changed, my valves done, and a clean filter in my EXCF.
Being a new owner of the KTM 890 ADV R, I realize now this bike is capable of anything! However, at my age and sustaining a major injury; I don't do all the daring stuff that the bike is capable of. The main thing I dread when riding hard is being able to pick it up when I crash. I usually crash at least twice when riding hard. With my luggage it's probably ~ 500 lbs. I'm a strong burly guy, but 500 lbs is a lot to pick up alone (multiple times). I agree with you in terms of a single cylinder vs. a twin cylinder. It definitely needs to be a twin cylinder. Somewhere in between the 690 R and 890 R weighing ~ 400 lbs with luggage would be ideal.
@@davidcolinfisher1034 Yes it is! I crash a lot mainly and loose dirt and sand. There are areas to ride close to my house, but it is sandy with lots of washes. I did get ran off the road on Saturday in the mountains and crashed. That was fun. The kid that ran me off the road helped me lift my bike back up.
I ride in SW Washington. Have put 8k miles on a DRZ 400 I bought in 2016. It’s about 50 hwy miles to get out there. A lot of the time I ride alone. Always thinking about different bikes but every time I crash, I’m always reminded why the DRZ. It doesn’t do anything really well but it does pretty much everything. And that last 50 miles of pavement on the way home after a long day or 3, sucks.
A PR7 do not vibrate more than a 2 cylinder bmw…. And the 690/701 is without any comfort, that issues is also fixed by the PR7, and the PR7 have way better suspension. Maintenance ? Dump all the complexity of unnessesary electronics and “modern things” and you have a bike which is easy maintenance, no matter where you go. Again PR7… Dont wait for another magic unicorn….it already exist.
In my search for the unicorn ive settled on three sizes. a wr450, dr650, and super tenere. The dr650 is the closest to a true 50/50 bike, took alot of adjustments and farkles but it is the true 50/50 rider bike, which being that is what made me go and get the other two. Because it did it all but was not great on long trips and on more technical trails it was a bit heavy and clumsy compared to trail bikes. 50/50 =100 it is a compromise in the name alone, it will never be the best at all but good for both. The unicorn would be a 100/100 or as close to that as you could get, they dont want a 50/50 bike thus the quest for the impossible? If they could make that unicorn a bike. To me it would be you could comfortably ride 500+ mile days to get somewhere to camp, then go blast single track with confidence and speed of a slightly heavy enduro. The factor is weight for it to be great at one or the other it has to be heavy for the road for stability and comfort over distance, or light for the trail to be nimble. the middle is always going to be a compromise.
After riding 701 Enduro conclusion is drawn to it´s future little brothers. Husqvarna 501 Norden and 501 Enduro would have a great chance to revolutionize the motorcycle market as true unicorns. Also GAS GAS 500-600 ADV Rally+DSB. With futuristic launches of , do-it-all - Omnisport machines like the 601 Norden and 601 Enduro.
Everything in life is a compromise, there is no such thing as the perfect bike, never will be, my world adventures were on a Yamaha XT 500, it satisfied my primary needs at the time, reliability, simplicity and a ballance between on/off road ability. Granted its old school technology but simplicity has a quality of it's own, I was never let down in over 300 000 km. Today's offerings are too complicated, all competing for maximum power while sacrificing reliability and simplicity and ease of maintenance. Most modern bikes lack soul, by that I mean is, they seem over stressed with multi valve over square counter balanced engines that achieve power via engine revolutions. An adventure motorcycle should be tailored for the adventurer, not the performance junkie, it seems today people don't see the trees, just the forest, the manufacturers follow the demand, however the demand is, in my opinion, sending the wrong message to the manufacturers. Sure I'm dated, but the XT 500 started it all, after all it won the Dakar before it (the rally) became a factory technology race, if they made a modern XT 500 interpretation today, I would buy in a heartbeat, obviously sacrificing some simplicity such as fuel injection, CDI and perhaps liquid cooling, better suspension and brakes whilst retaining the the basic architecture, as there wasn't much to improve.
My 790AdvR comes darn close to unicorn. I shed some good kgs and now it's ~195kg with fuel and with enduro tires plus tubliss system, suspension tuning, steering damper. This bike over terrain I am riding is not performing worse than dual sports. On the other hand I have no problem riding 140km/h on tar except maybe for tire wear. I had a chance to compete on it in Rally event and my special stages times were equal to average time in single cylinder class. Also rode with buddy of mine on EXC-F350 and he stayed behind for the most part. In a bit more difficult terrain I was able to ride over everything he was. Situation would change in mountains and rocky terrain, but that is not where I ride. In sandy/forrest, flat terrain it is my unicorn and I recommend to anyone both the bike and mods
I have had a bunch of dual sport and adventure bikes. I recently sold a couple of my bikes and picked up a lightly used KTM 690. It's everything that it's hyped to be. I've owned all the Japanese 650's, none are in this league. I had a few DRZ400's, no comparison. Like any "multiple use" bikes you're going to have to compromise one thing to excel more at another. I don't look forward to 400 miles of slab to get to the next BDR or get home from the last one on the 690, but I also don't dread it...and riding off road is way more fun on this than any 600 pound "Adventure" bike out there.
I don’t understand why Suzuki isn’t able to build a DRZ400 for the European market…at least, to compete with the KTM390 adventure. I mean, who is even looking at the Vstrom 250 ?!!
I think about something like the KTM EXC 450, Husqvarna 501/701 Enduro. They have terrible service intervals but slap an aftermarket tank on and you get 300 kilometer on a tank any day.
Why do all RUclips motorcycle pundits seem to have a blind spot for the AJP PR7 when they as “Why will no one make me the bike I want?” It IS the bike that you all call for!
The closest is coming from China. The Kove 450 Rally is probably my next bike. I’m willing to take a risk on a chinese bike just to send a message to the industry.
Bring back the 2 Stroke with modern fixings! It’ll Cut the weight, Add exhaust scavenging or supercharging. Make it a twin 350 or 400 with an oil sump or oil injection with a relatively large gas tank and a way to put on luggage. I think sub 400 is definitely possible with touring in mind and will handle happily off road.
@@BornAGoon Sadly, if only our government organizations focused more on building and growing habitat for wildlife like that Indian man who planted a forest to stop erosion, instead of taking away our fun, I think we’d be in a better spot. At the rate we’re going they’re gonna try to take away our 4 strokes and tell us we can’t charge our electric vehicles because of electricity shortages…oh wait.
Good video and some good points, thanks. For me, any of my off-road riding should be on a lighter bike, so I agree that most of the "adventure bikes" need to lose some pork.
It comes down to weight. Ridding a 350lb bike on the freeway sucks and ridding a 450lb on single track sucks too. Both can be down but it is what it is.
I recently bought a Honda 450L and am in the process of turning it into a lightweight ADV. Aside from the Kove 450 (which is not yet street-legal as I write this), I think it's about as close as you can get to the right platform for building the bike I want-namely, something I could do a BDR on by myself and enjoy the experience, rather than just survive it. I intended to do this on my Africa Twin but after a few reality checks, it's just too much damned bike. I realized that I could either have a true lightweight that's more fatiguing on the freeway, or a big bike that's MUCH more liable to injure me or get stuck on a difficult trail (and less enjoyable regardless). For me that was an easy choice, but it's certainly a tradeoff. Having no prior experience with dirt bikes, the weight of this thing is a revelation. I'm sorry, but your T7 or 890 or any other "middleweight" ADV is still a heavy-ass bike. Yeah, Pol Tarrés can rip on it like it's a 250 or a Trials bike, but are you Pol? I'm not. Multi-cylinder ADV's are easily the most versatile motorcycles. They're a great choice for any trip on quasi-maintained roads (paved or otherwise). But are you in good enough shape to pick one up 5 or 6 times, fully-laden, when it's 100º in the desert and your choices are to keep riding or call for LifeFlight? I'm not. And even if I were, it doesn't sound like fun. It's going to take some mods, but if you buy one used as I did, many of those have probably already been done. My bike is currently ~280lb and 50HP or so; the weight and power are certainly there. Stock suspension is far more capable than I'll ever be. There are aftermarket fuel tanks up to 5 gallons, so the range can be had. The frame has proven sturdy enough to carry a reasonable BDR load. And honestly, it's not as bad on the freeway as I thought it would be. Would I choose it for a 1000-mile highway journey? Heck no. Can I deal with it for a couple hours? Sure. And it's an absolute BLAST lane-splitting through traffic. You can't have it all, and with this bike, reasonable maintenance intervals are the major thing you can't have. You just have to accept that as the price of entry. Oil changes are a 10-minute job if you get a skid plate that allows access to the drain plug. And it only takes 1.2qt of oil, so they aren't expensive either. I can live with it, for everything else I'm getting.
Didn’t read the comments BUT this bike DID exist and it was stopped and banned from racing because it was TOO GOOD and TOO CHEAP! V twin 70+hp and 350lbs…. aprilia sxv 550. Your welcome.
Very well said but there is still another dimension. For example, if I wanted to ride between Telluride and Ouray, I could do it without ever leaving pavement, or I could do it without ever leaving the dirt. So that is the choice you refer to. But certain choices are made for us instead. For example, I could choose a dirt bike for the street but only one that has a license plate, or I could choose a street bike for the dirt but only so long as it has the needed traction and clearance. So either way, you make a choice to start out on the street but at some point the trail is presented to you. Or you start on the trail, but at some point you have to ride on the paved roads. So the unicorn everyone really wants, is a street legal machine that go as deep offroad as desired. Sometimes that machine won't take you as deep as you want. Sometimes the machine that can take you as deep as you want won't take you on the highway. So the choice between 50-50 or 70-30 is a moving target, for everybody, and everybody looks for the bike they are capable of handling everywhere they want it to go, and they want it carry them comfortably as far and as fast as they would like. Therefore the perfect unicorn bike is a 200/200/200 machine with heated seats and grips that weighs nothing, 13 inches of clearance that you can easily plant both feet down, that's 200 mph, 200 mile range, 200 lbs.
Can be built & they are, lots of us have built purpose built ADV bikes. The types of motorcycles available néw & old is huge. Easy to create your own unicorns 👍.
It can exist. Yamaha could do it tomorrow. With their 700cc parallel twin out of the MT 07. Fitted with a lightweight compact Koenigsegg "Free Valve cylinder head. Aprilia SXV 550 V Twin. Could be modernised and increased in capacity.
You over complicated your answer so much in the second half of this video. The only thing stopping these companies from making a unicorn Dualsport is price. They could all make this bike but it would cost 17-20k and it would need an aluminum frame, which is not the best for global travel. Another reason they don’t make this unicorn bike is because it would kill the sales of other bikes in their line up. If Kawasaki made a Versys 400x with a 21/18 rim no one would buy the Ninja 400, KLX300 or KLR650. One bike would kill the sales of 3 other models. That’s my conspiracy theory.
Your unicorn bike and mine are different. I want mine to be lighter and with a smaller engine. I'm thinking a 450 twin with 50hp that's around 325lbs. 11+ inches of ground clearance and 8+inches travel front/rear. 600-800cc is too big. Also we aren't all buying the 690 not because it's a thumper but because KTM reliability is a joke.
The LC4 is perfect. Only reason people don't go for 690/701 is because they want COMFORT, and they usually don't have the riding-skills to use it to the fullest..... Because honestly, why buy a "heavy" offroad capable machine, when you're hardly ever offroad?
People don't buy 690/701 for adventure because what they say they do vs what they actually do, does not necessitate such a drasticly capable bike. The average ADV guy rides about 6000 km a year! Now why doen't KTM build a 690 with a 20 L fuel tank ... easy, the real demand is not there, I absolutely agree with you. But in my book, the 690 IS the real 50/50 unicorn.
Customers also didn't know they wanted an iPhone before it was born! 50/50 Honda CRF500L + CRF650L Africa Twin as well as in Enduro Sports version- That's motorcycle freedom!
A modified DR650 is about as close as your going to get. It can check off all of the boxes except the hp box. A Honda 450 rally would be interesting. One thing is for sure. The heavy weight bikes absolutely suck off road.
Yeah I disagree on the 50/50 rider because I am that rider and I use my adv bike to ride around and to work and dirt bike during sunset and want a little more street focused dual sport that’s between a Drz and an adv. I don’t need something impossible something in the middle of that at a good price is what I’ve been waiting for. The 690 is a unicorn in my perspective but it’s very heavily priced.
I'd sell my left kidney for a 400-500cc single cylinder Japanese made dual sport with long maintenance intervals, and proper 6spd (low 1st, high 6th). Make it rally style and I'll give both my kidneys :p I've seen my share of ktms leave people stranded in the boonies so I'm pretty against getting one, that's probably why people aren't buying them as much. It's definitely doable, if a crf450l exists they can definitely do it.
While I would be super excited for something like the AJP PR7, most people would not be. A single doesn't bother me at all. I ride a DR650 and have done big 12+ hr rides without ever thinking about the vibration but I also don't know what I'm missing. The short rides on my friends T7's have been insightful but didn't leave me questioning the single lyfe
If a Japanese manufacturer made a 500cc 'Honda 300 Rally' equivalent, it would be a huge success... 50-60hp, ≥160kg, 6th 'tall' gear, range of 350-400km, services 8,000-10,000km- That'll be my everything bike.
Same here bud. There's still hope.
Count me in on that one
no you would find a reason not to buy it
Bring back the XR 650r
@@glennwr450 but 2cyl and e-start and and and
Exactly why I bought a DR650, mine is not buzzy, I love singles. Put $2,000 into it and it's perfect for me and all under $10,000. I don't need all the bs riding modes, abs or quick shift and I can figure out which gear I'm in without a special readout or a blinking light for gas level and I can fix anything on it without a computer and 6 month wait for parts. Over 250 mile range with my tank and a little piece of plastic above the headlight keeps wind off my chest, cruises freeway all day at 75. Maintenance? What maintenance.
I love singles
Yes Sir! DRs are such a great bike with just a few mods (which are fun to do)
If the Dr 650 was modernized with fuel injection, upgraded suspension, maybe a 6th gear and few other adjustments and suddenly you have the perfect adventure bike, at least for myself anyways. I will note the Dr isn't 70 horsepower, but it's so reliable that I don't care, besides it's got plenty of torque. In my opinion the current Dr 650 model which hasn't changed since 1996 with a few mods is one of the best 50-50 options out there. The potential for the Dr 650 to be better overall is certainly possible.
Yeah baby!!!! I agree, A good motor, a good fuel system, brakes, tranny, suspension and awesome frame with no electronics (except legal lights), one gauge (temp gauge to avoid nastiness) pick your tires.
I have to agree with the DR 650 fans here. I sold my DRZ 400 and my Triumph tiger and replaced both with the DR 650. While it is not as good a street/touring bike as the tiger, nor as good a dirt bike as the DRZ, it is truly a great motorcycle and a total hoot to ride, no matter where I ride it. That torquey motor is its own reward.
It is not about spending 50/50 time on- and offroad. It is about having a bike that can do both as good as possible. Even if I spend only 5% off my time off road, I want those 5% to be as enjoyable as possible.
yes but you are giving up a lot for something rarely used Making big sacrifices for 5% of your riding choice
That’s exactly how I’ve always seen it.
Exactly. The premise is false.
That's just another way of saying you want a 50/50 unicorn bike.
Bloody oath!
Great video with excellent points. I too have multiple bikes and agree with your general assessment. But you overlooked another opportunity that seems possible. A DRZ400 with a 6 speed transmission and fuel injection. That's probably why you have the Honda 450.
Thank you Jeff
Ya we never went to the moon! So I guess we are screwed.
Agreed
I'm pretty happy with the KTM 690 Enduro R. Some mods are needed to help it be the bike I want it to be but it was pretty close right out of the crate. Coming off an extremely moded KLR, the KTM is light years ahead of it. It vibrates a LOT less and oil change intervals at 6,200 miles don't seem too often to me. I will still change it every 4k miles or so but I would do the same on a DR or KLR as well. I get the point though. I have 6 bikes and they all serve a purpose. Keep up the videos. I enjoy watching.
I think the 690 is my next bike
I have owned a klr, 690, t7 and Ktm 500exc. The 690 is as close as you can get to the unicorn. But man do I love my 500exc. If I have learned anything, you need multiple bikes.
My friend's 690 SM had the frame crack. No reason. No crashes, the guy is not big on wheelies. Just broke next to where the frame slider is. If KTM's were reliable...
If you put bark busters with the built in handle bar weights on your singles you kiss most of the vibration goodbye.
I have a exc500 and absolutely love it! I don't think I'll ever get rid of it.
@@archiewilson4943 the sliders are why it cracked. Harmonics of that weight vibrating. Widely known in the 690/701 sm world
CRF ~400cc Rally ~40hp with better suspension than 300 rally and similar service intervals for 2 or 3k more. I think it would sell. Don't need a twin, just decent balancing.
Thanks for watching
This
After exhaustive research I’ve come to the conclusion that the only answer to this dilemma is a five bike stable.
Yes lol
Very true. I'm selling my Tenere and get 1) an Africa Twin and 2) a WR450F. Both great in their field whilst the Tenere is questionable in both unless you are Pol Tarres...
Ya, I would have to agree, I have 2, at one point had 3, but in the end, more money,more bikes an bigger stable is the only solution to this problem. You go to bed and wake up thinking...which bike am I going to ride today.....
how do you swap to your offroad bike when you took your touring bike to get to the trail lol.
Like any enthusiast sport...skiing, cycling, moto, etc.
your equipment count can always be
N + 1
Chinese companies like CFMoto may surprise us and get closer to a unicorn bike. Your definition of a unicorn is different than how I and many would define it though. For me, it would be something like a WR450R with a 4-5 gallon tank, basic windscreen, comfortable seat, 40HP, sub 350lb weight, and service intervals similar to the WR250R I currently own.
I wonder if everyone will not buy the Chinese bike
So true about the WR450!
I’m buying the Kove 450 Rally for that reason. 370lbs wet with an 8 gallon fuel tank, 51hp 450cc single with liquid cooling, ABS, and 11 inches of suspension travel. Its the closest to the unicorn we will get
@@austinbauman3818 Makes a lot of sense in terms of specs. If it's reliable and delivers, you will have a lot of fun with that! Braaaaaaaaap!
I share your vision of the unicorn bike, as well as your belief that the Chinese will probably give us a lightweight ADV bike with enough HP to comfortably cruise on the highway when needed. The reason the big Japanese and European manufacturers refuse to give us the bike we want is because they don't want to detract from their big ADV bike sales. They belatedly and reluctantly added a small ADV bike to their lineup but positioned it not to be the best it could be, but rather to be a beginner bike to get customers on the upgrade path to their $15K bloated mid size or $25K full size maxi bloated ADV pig. I love my G310GS, but it's really singing at 75 MPH on the highway, however the real crime against humanity is the 2.9 gallon fuel tank. That's an unforgivable sin on an ADV bike.
Yes. We have a goon! Seriously, we had a good compromise with the Honda XL/XR 500 models. Later, replaced by the XL/XR600-650 models (depending on the markets). I had tons of fun riding my XR500 in on/off road conditions. This changed when I fitted the XR engine in a C&J frame. Then it became a pure off-road bike.
I purchased my 2012 F800 with this in mind. I cut a bunch of weight, added 21” x 18” steel wheels, let Racetech create great suspension. I had about the closest thing I could get my hands on. I’ve been enjoying it for a long time now and it just keeps on going. In my garage it’s my dirt bike.
When I look at adventure bike videos, I want to try them. I then realize, if I bought one, I would still ride my dirt bike more, because that is what I enjoy more. Unless you are Chris Birch, who is sponsored by KTM, most of us will not enjoy an adventure bike in the dirt. They are too heavy. Thanks for your video.
Yes I tried to be Chris Birch on my Tiger 800 and all I did was crash and waste my riding time trying to pick the bike up
Yep , balance the wheels on your enduro bike , fit a big tank. If ya haven’t already 😉.
Best adventure bike you well get if ya don’t ride 500k tar sections.
@@benlondon8467 So so true. And it's there, just a few mods and you have that "giant black hole in the bike galaxy" bike!
@@benlondon8467 Sounds like my DR650!😁
Xr650r with a magic button and detachable subframe. The 690 has a pretty long maintenance interval. The small gas tank is the biggest hindrance.
Nice work. But I do have to say... I think your 70-90 hp benchmark is overkill. If your bike weights 400lbs or less, than 40 hp will propel you enough to overtake whenever you want ( normal circumstances) ,and you will accelerate faster than MOST cars.The DR650 fits the bill. And it's cheaper than your 5 figure. And yes I was scammed with my 1st bike when I bought a cb500x thinking I was going to enjoy it offroad. Got a DR now! Cheers
I too have DR650. I saved so much on the purchase price, I upgraded the carburetor to a pro jet kit, Leo Vince exhaust, Cogent Mojave suspension. Easily cruises 75 mph. But can go 95+ for passing. Of course it’s a dirt monster!
Could be the T7 dynos at less than 70hp I think
Great video mate. I think the latter point is the most likely. In my humble opinion the reason this bike doesn't exist is because we all think we are better riders than we actually are. The reality is every bike in production is more capable than 99% of the riders. The bikes are not the limiting factor. Case in point Pol Tarres finishing top 10 in Erzberg on a light weight enduro rocket ship and 77th on a Teneree 700.
We want to much out of our bikes. The reality is the light weight adventure bike does exist albeit with minor modification. KTM 690, AJP PR7, SWM 500 (wider range gearbox) , WR 450. The bikes are not the limiting factor, we are. Having said that KTM should produce the 690 enduro and husqvaran the 701 rally and problem solved.
We all have so many complaints because we are soft as ferk. Oh my bike is to heavy (get stronger), oh my suspension is to soft ( lose weight) oh my bike doesn't handle well enough (get better) oh this single is buzzy (harden up). Rant over lol.
Amen to that, brother.
KTM500EXCF is the closest I've come to finding a perfect bike. Extra set of SM wheels is fun.
I feel that way about my 450RL
Agreed, I have one and it just needs a bigger oil and gas tank to be a great adventure bike.
Exactly, I run an old 450 EXC for fun, for real fun my Aprilia RXV 550, twin cylinder, 126kg full of fuel and 72hp supermoto spec engine. It can be done!
Great video.
I am not a 50/50 rider, and I will never be one, but I would love to see something like CRF 450 Rally (that has 300 Rally service intervals) or T5. I would buy that bike without hesitation.
Thanks for watching
@@BornAGoon My pleasure. I really enjoy your channel. Cheers!
Stoked! Write to Yamaha and suggest the Tenere 500 as an extended model series to the Tenere 155, 700 and 900. Come back and report 🏁
There have been a few that came close. The old KTM 640 Adventure had a 7 gallon tank and weighed about 400 lbs fully fueled. It had a payload capacity of around 440 lb and pillion pegs. It had a great long-travel suspension. It was related to the 660 race bikes that KTM used to win the Dakar circa 2000. Shortcomings were a minimal wind screen and a very buzzy engine. It didn't sell very well -- in fact, I never even heard of the thing until long after it went out of production.
Currently the AJP PR7 is not far off from unicorn status. It weighs about 364 lb wet. It has a 4.5 gallon under-seat tank that keeps the weight centralized. More than 11" of suspension travel. It has reasonably long maintenance intervals and it has a rally-tower wind screen. It is a thumper, so it won't be as smooth as some twins, but the biggest issue is that it isn't street legal everywhere.
As for the KTM 690 Enduro ... it's a good bike, but KTM (for some inexplicable reason) has steered it away from unicorn land. It has one of the best thumpers ever made (powerful and with long maintenance intervals), a decent suspension, and a good frame. But, it doesn't have a real sub-frame to support luggage, it doesn't have even a rudimentary wind screen, and it doesn't have a wide-ratio transmission. That last one is a real crime, because the 690 is light enough to handle moderately-difficult single track, but you can't gear it down enough for single-track without making it scream on the highway.
I used to own one. "Buzzing" is an understatement and the oil change with the oil running in the frame was a pain in the behind. I now own a 500EXC and it's better everywhere sans the fuel range and payload capacity. Like he said, everything's a compromise.
Love my 2007 KTM 640 Adventure. Never getting rid of it.
People forget about the yamaha xt 660E
@@alessandrogomesaraujo4206 I don't see a 660E anywhere ... there was the 660Z, which is similar to the KTM 640 Adventure, except with 3" less suspension travel, 10% less power, a gallon less fuel, and 50 lb more curb weight. It did have a better wind screen though, and the engine was probably less vibey.
@@C_R_O_M________ I've owned a 640 since 2003 and the vibration keeps me off of it unless I have it in the California desert where it's amazing. I had a 450 EXC and it was great off road but horrible on the street. I've had various dirt bikes and currently have a KTM 350xc-f. I'd love to replace my 640 with a modern day version. I don't want to be putting a kit on a 690 enduro.
If you have multiple bikes you’ve already failed the test of being a 50/50 rider. But for those of us who can only afford/want one bike that does both well, that’s the market. By having multiple bikes you’re more in the enthusiast category, and therefore disqualify yourself from needing a 50/50 machine. The market is for people that don’t have the coin, desire, space to have multiple machines sitting around that we can jump on when the need arises.
Have you considered a Dr.Z 400sm? This is my 8th motorcycle - and It is way better off and on road than I am. Something to think about.
Cheers!
I’m in the market, and I already own three bikes. The unicorn bike I have in mind probably will never exist. But if it did, I would still own multiple bikes, because I enjoy the uniqueness of them all. 🤘
It looks like so many of us would like to see a crf450l rally with similar maintenance intervals as the 300l , but I think that Honda knows that if they bring that bike, it will affect the sales of the 300l and maybe the sales of the 450rl and besides that,it looks most manufactories need an engine that can be used in at least 3 different models to make profit out of their investments
Cheers 🏍️
Thats what we want maybe soon we will see it
I agree on the technical points of the difficulty in manufacturing a sub 400# twin. It's gonna be real difficult while keeping it reasonably priced and maintaining reliability. I disagree somewhat on the 50/50 rider. It's not the amount of time I spend on each surface (dirt/asphalt), it's that I want to bike to perform (as close to) optimally under most conditions, even if it's more like 70/30 (dirt/street). As an example - I did 1,400 miles across SW/SE Oregon back in September. I planned a route that stayed on as much dirt as possible. But, I did have to bail out on the pavement a couple of times and covered 100-150 miles or so at a time. Having a twin (Yamaha T-7) makes that so much more enjoyable than a single. Having that same capability on the road, but about 75# less weight on the dirt would open up even more terrain. If someone does make a sub 400# twin, then I think the horsepower will be where the tradeoff is made, say a 500-600 cc with 60 or so hp.
That too to make that bike with longer service intervals would be too expensive
Because a lightweight and reasonable price adventure bike will fucked up their bottom line since all of the other line up will be relegated to nothing. Imagine, for example, a CB500x motor with a body like the CRF300L, abs, 21-inch front wheel, and no crap electronics, at 7000 USD. No one will go for the ktms or the teneres unless they need the HP, and let's face it, most traveling adventure riders won't need more than 50 hp.
Thanks for watching and commenting Pablo
This is why I'm old school at this point and ride two bikes: 2005 R1200GS and a 2022 Husqvarna FE 501S. That combo was solid in 2005 and it's solid now. I'd love an 890 Adventure R, but then I'd have to look at it and it would be worse than both bikes I have.
The ktm 690 isn't buzzy. Oil change intervals are 6k miles. Its the unicorn you speak of, but too heavy for ohv trails in the pnw. I hope they make a 390 enduro that weighs less than 300lbs and costs less than $8,000.
Please don’t go on the 300l its a better step only for honda. The wr250r is still superior to it. Plus thehonda is boring and heavy. Maybe a 500 twin on a long travel suspension setup. 60 hp and 325 wet! Yamaha could do it!
AJP PR7 looks so good on paper.... Just don't know a whole lot about them.
I tried to get one to test but no go
I bought one and I love it. The handling and suspension is very good. The engine has plenty of power for highway cruising, and plenty of low end grunt to lug around off road. It is easy to plate in my state, but not in others.
I just want them to put twin tanks of the 450L and a rally tower for styling. Call it the 450L rally... then make it around the tenere price tag. I'd buy a single with twin tanks and rally looks. Hell yeah... unfortunately if I want a rally bike atm, I'm looking at spending 30k.
Hi Mate-Rider,
I want try to reset my backround to reborn and giving importance to things they didn't have it ...
... it's all in our mind / WE MUST CHANGE ( My 44th Bike , after the last Africa Twin Adv Sport 2018, just little heavy , and Husky 701 (Fragile cams) it's a new Honda 300 L Rally 2022 //// It was not easy but I had prepared myself 😘 and after 4 months and 8000 km, I believe I'm reaching my balance now //// YES I spend other 4000€ in addition for many parts / suspension + exhaust + rims + remap ECU + footpegs and other parts , but I have my little UNICORN now ..... and I'm HAPPY but we must reset.
Maybe we really have to lose something to earn something else in a new unknown horizon,
Sorry for my english
Luca (Milan Italy)
Thanks for watching and commenting Luca
Riders who focus too much on modern models talk about all the negatives about single cylinders, but that doesn't stop the popularity of bikes like the DR650. You judge too harshly when you say" they're so vibratey it's unridable". I'd go so far as to say the DR650 is in the running for top 5 bikes taken around the world.
It's so frustrating but you're spot on.
yes it is
Aprillia's 550 RXV was as close as this earth 🌍 will ever see to a perfect design. It needed a Dakar Rally fairing and larger tank, but the H.O. Twin is what is needed. I would also like to see a front wheel electric motor for slow speed acceleration or off the line torque and regenerative braking.
Too bad they stopped making it
@@BornAGoon the other issue is curb weight includes fuel. This means that the larger the range the heavier it appears to be. These bikes should always be measured using "dry weight".
@@fabulousoffroaddesigns5080
Bmw G650 X Challange is also a genuine bike that can travel around the world as well as handle offroad trails.
Should be able to build up your Honda for light adventure with 20L onboard around 330lbs. Probably get a KTM500 built up similarly closer to 300lbs. Would sure be sweet to see Yamaha step up to the table with a dual sport WR500. Thanks for keeping the dream alive.
Thanks for watching
This is why I chose the Husky 701 SM as my ride. I am and always will be predominantly a road rider. I like the idea of offroading, but apart from the 1 or 2 gravel roads I ride on a year, it makes no sense for me to get anything more dirt biased. The 17s on the supermoto with some nice 80/20 ADV tires is plenty enough for the "offroad" that I do while giving little away on the road. That's where my balance is for me and makes sense for me.
Admittedly though, I am thinking going back to a full road sport touring set up. That's just more what I truly am, but still am enjoying the 701. Some of these ADV bikes with some 17s slapped on would be a greatly welcome addition. KTM 890 sport tourer anybody?
Honda already has the perfect platform to build up into the unicorn adventure bike. The xr650l. With a lower seat height, a larger tank, fuel injection and borrowed fairing styling from its little 300 sister honda could tick all the boxes we are asking for. Also the xr650s existing culture and wide aftermarket selection this bike would be a hit among the adventure community. A capable bike that out performs the kawasaki klr, while undercutting the price point of the yamaha T7 and suzuki V strom.
DRZ500, 6 speed transmission would be a contender
If only Suzuki would make it
I love my DRZ400 with big tank, slightly lowered and geared up... no trials, MX or freeways, but everything else. Just start by finding tires that both have great asphalt and mud performance...
The 690 enduro doesn't flex like an enduro bike and it is not that buzzy. it also can go 10k kms between oil changes. don't let the "enduro" wording fool you. It is a road bike with off-road pedigree. And the lack of flex is notorious in technical terrain, when compared to a ktm500exc.
Thanks for watching and commenting
I want the 50/50 unicorn twin, and I want the 300 mile range. But I'll probably settle for a T7 Raid.
I want 50/50 triple/ Omnisport single, so far all ADVs have been overweight with big twins and become heavy pigs off road. Either way, Rieju Aventura 500 Legend and the KOVE 450RALLY set the benchmark. But have to settle for a WR450F, DRZ, XR650R, DR650, G650X Challange, Fe501, 500 Exc or 690/700/701 Enduro.
i have sold T7 after one season
Take a 690/701 motor, put a wide ratio transmission in it. Put that motor in the old 640 adventure frame (with attachment points for lightweight luggage), with the good suspension from their dirt bikes and people will be lined up to buy it.
The 640 is a gem. I'm with this 100%.
except that the 640 shook like a wet dog on steroids on the highway
Some good points... however I think the market has come close a few times and those bikes have sold well. T7, 500x, 390adv, DRZ400, and various 650 dual sports are all great examples.
I dont think the "Unicorn" necessarily needs to be 600+ CC. It just needs to be a competent offroad machine still capable of Decent freeway riding.
And to that end I think the sweet spot truly lies in the 400-500cc range. Either a big single or small Ptwin.
Rumors have circled about an NX500 Dominator in the works. Wich if it follows through with its traditional Enduro frame with fairings could very well be that bike.
KTM is also said to be working on a 490ADV Ptwin that could hit the mark as well.
True maybe its not build because of money it would ruin sales
I would say 500-600 is the sweet spot.50-60hp, higher torque with flat curve. So that it can do 130kmph on a highway with a passenger. Electronically adjustable suspension to behave well on road and off. Around 450lbs/200kg to make it realistic. I think the required power is probably the most overrated thing out of the other criteria.
Honda 500x kind of fits those specs, but the frame, suspension, cast wheels and engine are very road oriented. I want a sturdier frame that doesn't use the engine for support. 20+cm ground clearence. Wire wheels. Less power more torque engine with lower revs. I was hoping for something like that from the transalp. But they created a Hornet with bigger wheels. IMO they don't build it because it would mean a completely new platform. New frame, new engine. They rather slightly adjust what they have.
They almost nailed with Tenere 700. It could have a bit lower center of gravity. And if they made it 500cc with 50hp and slightly ligher, it would be ideal.
@@vojtal182 Rally Raid conversion of Honda500x gets you closer
@@vojtal182 200 kg is too much! The old 950 Super Enduro with a 1000CC engine (LC8) weighted less than 200Kg. My 500 EXC weights 130kg and if it had a bigger oil and gas tank it'd be the perfect bike for me. The power is enough. Almost the same power to weight ratio as my old 990 ADV R.
@@C_R_O_M________ Have had all three at the same time, now just the 990A and 500EXCF. Compromises across the board.
The 950SE was my favourite but to get any kind of mileage (~120miles) I ran the Exxon Valdez tank which just made it super top heavy and dangerous on single track. The head angle also was more appropriate for high speed desert run than tech single track. That fueling though was a beautiful experience, silky smooth. Carb maint wasn't fun, it sat on the kitchen table for months while I tried to figure it out.
The 990A works great on roads (crossed the US on it) once you deal with the buffeting and 150-180 mile range and does easy single track but it's a heavy beast picking it off the ground with luggage.
My adventurized 500EXCF is my unicorn bike, as close to perfect as possible for out west. A 200 mile tank, comfortable (relative) seat, ecu, other mods. Can do single track and 100mph sprints on tarmac, but I'm not doing 200 miles on the road without doing some stretching. Change the oil every few thousand miles and it's good to go.
Is it perfect? No, but it's close.
The Yamaha TW200 missed all the criteria, but yet gets the job done and is fun doing it!
The 2019+ KTM 690R has a revised engine and is pretty darn smooth. I think this is a perfect light weight adventure bike with the proper setup. Hopefully KTM we'll realize this too
Its close
Once you get on a smooth bike that glides the highway you realize how not smooth that KTM is. There are times when I'll tour 9+hrs a day and the vibrations add up...
KTM 390 ADV is as close as you will get off the shelf; it’s more road based than many want, but put nobblies and a smaller front sprocket and it’s better off-road. The engine is great fun on the road.
I like the 390
Wet weight 379 lbs (172 kg) is way to heavy for serious 50/50, Was surprised how bad the components (brakes clutch etc) were and how poorly the chassis was balanced. The chassis felt clumsy and heavier than 660 Tuareg, T7. It also lacks suspension, spoked wheels, low end grunt, high ground clearance and so forth! 490 Adventure + Enduro might not have been a bit better.. If Norden 501 and 501 Enduro can get Dna from Fe350-701 Enduro, then maybe there is some hope!
My only gripe with the KTM 690 is the fact it has no fuel gauge. You have to rely on the trip meter.
Too hard to reset after a fill?
@@IRQ1Conflict I guess not
Husqvarna 701
amen
This video is so spot on! The adventure motorcycle market is a marketing scam. Just my little humble opinion, adventure should be in the soul of the rider, not the bike he or she rides. Unless someone lives in the middle in the Outback or Patagonia, the rider profile of 50/50 will probably not apply. Bottom line, be happy to be riding on whatever terrain you have available! Great video Mr. Goon!
Cheers!
Thank you No truer words have been spoken
I think an adventure bike would shine on vacations and weekend trips, where you travel far but also do trails. If just used for commuting, there are better options.
I just dont understand. Why adventure people want highway at all? It is sooo boring. And why people want high top speed with a rally style bike at all? Even in Dakar, they just ran a little bit above 100 kph. And 70-100kg of luggage? Seriously.. Why people want so many things? To me, a KTM 350 or 450 EXC-F with a little bit longer service interval is perfection (even when they must sacrify some HPs), even for travel. And no, I dont have plan to go 1000 kms into desert. If I go there alone, I will die anyway.
you have to have 2 bikes unfortunately (I actually love having 2). I use the KTM 500 for overnighters closer to home or more technical, but its terrible on the highway. I recently got the desert x which is the most fun I've ever had on a motorcycle . It feels so light and flickable that I'm using it more than my KTM - and on the road it feels like a sport bike. I put the decat pipe on as well as silencer (SC Project) and it took an additional 12 pounds off the weight which is now just 20 pounds heavier than my old T7 but with a lot more power and way better suspension.
Yes you need 2 They want us to buy 2 lol
A BMW F650GS twin cylinder weighs just under 400lbs dry, makes 71hp (allegedly), and MSRP would be $12,727USD in 2023 with inflation from the 2010 MSRP. Is this not the unicorn you seek?
Even though the Aprilia Tuareg 660 is just over 400lbs, it is still a good value and close to all the specs that everyone is looking for. I was kind of disappointed when the Transalp 750 when came out more road oriented.
450 lbs / 204.11 kg wet and is way too heavy offroad! What is missing is a DS-Enduro +ADV Rally bike between 300Rally/DRZ - DR650,XR650R/L, Fe501 - 701 Enduro etc.
Very cool video! :D
BUT I think you are being a bit "too greedy" with the HP demand... 70-90hp is too much in my opinion. I think it would be more reasonable to ask for a twin that is 50-70hp. That way:
1) it would be easier to stay under the the 400lbs mark
2) it would be easier to stay on the cheaper side
3) The power would be easier to manage on such a lightweight bike (most people cant really handle the 690, its too ready to race)
4) It would have its clear niche, instead of being a little bit of everything. I believe we desperately need something between the CRF300L and the 690, in terms of HP
Keep up the AWESOME work man :)
Ah! I want to throw anotnher hat in the ring :D
I agree with you that a "true 50-50" bike doesnt make a lot of sense, cause that pratically means it is dull/limited on both environments.. but if then we consider 70-30% bikes, or 30-70% bikes, then perhaps things would make more sense.
The thing is... nowadays you have 29391 big/med adventure bikes that fit that 70/30 category (Onroad / Offroad), but almost no bike exists nowadays that fits the 30/70 category, perhaps except the CRF300L, that ultimately "fails" for being so weak.
At least here in europe, we lack dual-sports... and I dont mean "performance dualsports" like the ones that are so common on the US, I mean old school dualsports like the DR650, the DRZ400, the TT600, etc... if they could make something like that with a twin, and under 400lbs, that would be sweet!
So basically an offroad dedicated bike that is sturdy and big enough to withstand (with limited but some enjoyiment and confort) a long stretch on the road
@@RouteNRide that would be awesome..but personally i would prefer 21". We already have more than enough "meh" offroad motorcycles :o
@@RouteNRide i am not worried about crossing a log, i am worried about the general feel of having a bigger wheel. Those few % of difference affect how everything feels, from easy stuff to hard stuff, and because i am an offroad oriented person, i want the best setup possible. If i see a 19" wheel i know for a fact that bike's offroad performance was compromised and usually a lot more compromises will be done.
If 19" is so good, they would be using it in enduro/mx/baja competitions, wouldnt they? Save some weight, lower cg...
Besides the KTM;
Yamaha Tenere700 is pretty close to a lightweight adventure bike
You would think that, but try picking it up from the ground. The weight is high up and the bike lies very flat.
A GS 1200 is easier to pickup up then a T7. A T5 is what we need, and make it a 2 cylinder for the long interval on the maintenance.
@@himydad1499 T5 won't be any lighter.
I saved huge buying a used 690 already Adventure modded with everything but more fuel. I plan to add 2 or 3g Rotapax to the rear rack to have at least 400k total range.
I hear the KTM 390 Adventure is built in China? Its price makes it probably the best value in a KTM so that may be what KTM has to do with more bikes. KTM please start building an Adventure version of the 690 Enduro that is affordable, even if it's only to ad a rally style fairing from the factory.
My local Honda dealer said we wouldn't see the Transalp 750 in the US until 2025, if ever.
OMG I hope that isnt true damn
Great video. I am struggling with this as I am sure many are. I think the right answer for me is a solid dual sport with a larger fuel tank and soft luggage for those times when I want to travel with it.
For me the focus should be on calming the vibes of a thumper. This and more oil capacity. The parallel twins all have the weight in the wrong spot. 500excf is so close to the unicorn.
True that! There is nothing between CRF300L/Rally, DRZ400 and DR650, XR650L, 690/700/701 Enduro. WR450F, CRF450L/RL, Fe501, 500Exc is close but longer intervals...
sounds like you are looking for a Huky 701 LR with a rally tower/windscreen. I have a 690 with a rally kit and it carries 8gal of fuel, waaay too much fuel, and its very heavy in the dunes even with my front tanks empty I treat it as an ultralight adv bike, right now its about 370 wet. I really want a 450 RFR to shave about 70lbs off my 690 and still get over 70hp, even then my 500 carries 5gal of fuel with a rear tank, that is close to 220 miles of range depending on how I ride. people complain about maintenance intervals on bikes like EXCFs haven't ever done maintenance on a bike that's designed to get into easily. Working on a CRF300 or a WR250R would make me want the longest intervals possible too, but give me an hour and a handful of tools and I'll have washed the bike, oil changed, my valves done, and a clean filter in my EXCF.
Being a new owner of the KTM 890 ADV R, I realize now this bike is capable of anything! However, at my age and sustaining a major injury; I don't do all the daring stuff that the bike is capable of. The main thing I dread when riding hard is being able to pick it up when I crash. I usually crash at least twice when riding hard. With my luggage it's probably ~ 500 lbs. I'm a strong burly guy, but 500 lbs is a lot to pick up alone (multiple times). I agree with you in terms of a single cylinder vs. a twin cylinder. It definitely needs to be a twin cylinder. Somewhere in between the 690 R and 890 R weighing ~ 400 lbs with luggage would be ideal.
Thats too much crashing.....isn't it?
@@davidcolinfisher1034 Yes it is! I crash a lot mainly and loose dirt and sand. There are areas to ride close to my house, but it is sandy with lots of washes. I did get ran off the road on Saturday in the mountains and crashed. That was fun. The kid that ran me off the road helped me lift my bike back up.
I ride in SW Washington. Have put 8k miles on a DRZ 400 I bought in 2016. It’s about 50 hwy miles to get out there. A lot of the time I ride alone. Always thinking about different bikes but every time I crash, I’m always reminded why the DRZ. It doesn’t do anything really well but it does pretty much everything. And that last 50 miles of pavement on the way home after a long day or 3, sucks.
A PR7 do not vibrate more than a 2 cylinder bmw…. And the 690/701 is without any comfort, that issues is also fixed by the PR7, and the PR7 have way better suspension. Maintenance ? Dump all the complexity of unnessesary electronics and “modern things” and you have a bike which is easy maintenance, no matter where you go. Again PR7…
Dont wait for another magic unicorn….it already exist.
In my search for the unicorn ive settled on three sizes. a wr450, dr650, and super tenere. The dr650 is the closest to a true 50/50 bike, took alot of adjustments and farkles but it is the true 50/50 rider bike, which being that is what made me go and get the other two. Because it did it all but was not great on long trips and on more technical trails it was a bit heavy and clumsy compared to trail bikes.
50/50 =100 it is a compromise in the name alone, it will never be the best at all but good for both.
The unicorn would be a 100/100 or as close to that as you could get, they dont want a 50/50 bike thus the quest for the impossible?
If they could make that unicorn a bike. To me it would be you could comfortably ride 500+ mile days to get somewhere to camp, then go blast single track with confidence and speed of a slightly heavy enduro.
The factor is weight for it to be great at one or the other it has to be heavy for the road for stability and comfort over distance, or light for the trail to be nimble. the middle is always going to be a compromise.
I wish they made that WR 450 street legal Jdub
After riding 701 Enduro conclusion is drawn to it´s future little brothers. Husqvarna 501 Norden and 501 Enduro would have a great chance to revolutionize the motorcycle market as true unicorns. Also GAS GAS 500-600 ADV Rally+DSB. With futuristic launches of , do-it-all - Omnisport machines like the 601 Norden and 601 Enduro.
Everything in life is a compromise, there is no such thing as the perfect bike, never will be, my world adventures were on a Yamaha XT 500, it satisfied my primary needs at the time, reliability, simplicity and a ballance between on/off road ability. Granted its old school technology but simplicity has a quality of it's own, I was never let down in over 300 000 km. Today's offerings are too complicated, all competing for maximum power while sacrificing reliability and simplicity and ease of maintenance.
Most modern bikes lack soul, by that I mean is, they seem over stressed with multi valve over square counter balanced engines that achieve power via engine revolutions.
An adventure motorcycle should be tailored for the adventurer, not the performance junkie, it seems today people don't see the trees, just the forest, the manufacturers follow the demand, however the demand is, in my opinion, sending the wrong message to the manufacturers.
Sure I'm dated, but the XT 500 started it all, after all it won the Dakar before it (the rally) became a factory technology race, if they made a modern XT 500 interpretation today, I would buy in a heartbeat, obviously sacrificing some simplicity such as fuel injection, CDI and perhaps liquid cooling, better suspension and brakes whilst retaining the the basic architecture, as there wasn't much to improve.
My 790AdvR comes darn close to unicorn. I shed some good kgs and now it's ~195kg with fuel and with enduro tires plus tubliss system, suspension tuning, steering damper. This bike over terrain I am riding is not performing worse than dual sports. On the other hand I have no problem riding 140km/h on tar except maybe for tire wear. I had a chance to compete on it in Rally event and my special stages times were equal to average time in single cylinder class. Also rode with buddy of mine on EXC-F350 and he stayed behind for the most part. In a bit more difficult terrain I was able to ride over everything he was. Situation would change in mountains and rocky terrain, but that is not where I ride. In sandy/forrest, flat terrain it is my unicorn and I recommend to anyone both the bike and mods
That is a wicked bike
This is my choice as well, what mods did you do to get the weight down?
@@kamax7672 lipo battery, decat&muffler, narrow rims with tubliss, single disc, EVAP, and removed lots of unnecessary crap.
I have had a bunch of dual sport and adventure bikes. I recently sold a couple of my bikes and picked up a lightly used KTM 690. It's everything that it's hyped to be. I've owned all the Japanese 650's, none are in this league. I had a few DRZ400's, no comparison. Like any "multiple use" bikes you're going to have to compromise one thing to excel more at another. I don't look forward to 400 miles of slab to get to the next BDR or get home from the last one on the 690, but I also don't dread it...and riding off road is way more fun on this than any 600 pound "Adventure" bike out there.
And there speaks the voice if reason! I agree 100%, mine is fantastic.
I don’t understand why Suzuki isn’t able to build a DRZ400 for the European market…at least, to compete with the KTM390 adventure.
I mean, who is even looking at the Vstrom 250 ?!!
The T7 is as close as it gets for me.
I don't see how it could be made significantly lighter without increasing cost and or reducing reliability.
The T7 is about as close as you can get
Tuareg seems better
@@arturlisowicz5271 once they fix the oil leaks and stalling issues
I think about something like the KTM EXC 450, Husqvarna 501/701 Enduro. They have terrible service intervals but slap an aftermarket tank on and you get 300 kilometer on a tank any day.
Why do all RUclips motorcycle pundits seem to have a blind spot for the AJP PR7 when they as “Why will no one make me the bike I want?” It IS the bike that you all call for!
The closest is coming from China. The Kove 450 Rally is probably my next bike. I’m willing to take a risk on a chinese bike just to send a message to the industry.
Bring back the 2 Stroke with modern fixings! It’ll Cut the weight, Add exhaust scavenging or supercharging. Make it a twin 350 or 400 with an oil sump or oil injection with a relatively large gas tank and a way to put on luggage.
I think sub 400 is definitely possible with touring in mind and will handle happily off road.
Unfortunately with the EPA 2 strokes will be gone soon
@@BornAGoon Sadly, if only our government organizations focused more on building and growing habitat for wildlife like that Indian man who planted a forest to stop erosion, instead of taking away our fun, I think we’d be in a better spot.
At the rate we’re going they’re gonna try to take away our 4 strokes and tell us we can’t charge our electric vehicles because of electricity shortages…oh wait.
Good video and some good points, thanks. For me, any of my off-road riding should be on a lighter bike, so I agree that most of the "adventure bikes" need to lose some pork.
It comes down to weight. Ridding a 350lb bike on the freeway sucks and ridding a 450lb on single track sucks too. Both can be down but it is what it is.
Oh and tires play a big part in this conversation
I guess they want us to buy 2 bikes
Suzuki can just put injection ,and 6th gear to the drz and that's it... maybe sell it in europe also that would make it easier for me to buy it ^^
If you like off-road - Yamaha tenere 700, if more road - cb500x or nc750x.
good choices
The only thing worse than having a great microphone and using it wrong is... wait, no, there's nothing worse than that. Great video, though
Light weight adventure bikes have always been around. They are called dualsports.
An oil change on a 690 takes about 30 minutes and intervals are 6,200 miles. get over it.
I recently bought a Honda 450L and am in the process of turning it into a lightweight ADV. Aside from the Kove 450 (which is not yet street-legal as I write this), I think it's about as close as you can get to the right platform for building the bike I want-namely, something I could do a BDR on by myself and enjoy the experience, rather than just survive it. I intended to do this on my Africa Twin but after a few reality checks, it's just too much damned bike. I realized that I could either have a true lightweight that's more fatiguing on the freeway, or a big bike that's MUCH more liable to injure me or get stuck on a difficult trail (and less enjoyable regardless). For me that was an easy choice, but it's certainly a tradeoff. Having no prior experience with dirt bikes, the weight of this thing is a revelation. I'm sorry, but your T7 or 890 or any other "middleweight" ADV is still a heavy-ass bike. Yeah, Pol Tarrés can rip on it like it's a 250 or a Trials bike, but are you Pol? I'm not. Multi-cylinder ADV's are easily the most versatile motorcycles. They're a great choice for any trip on quasi-maintained roads (paved or otherwise). But are you in good enough shape to pick one up 5 or 6 times, fully-laden, when it's 100º in the desert and your choices are to keep riding or call for LifeFlight? I'm not. And even if I were, it doesn't sound like fun.
It's going to take some mods, but if you buy one used as I did, many of those have probably already been done. My bike is currently ~280lb and 50HP or so; the weight and power are certainly there. Stock suspension is far more capable than I'll ever be. There are aftermarket fuel tanks up to 5 gallons, so the range can be had. The frame has proven sturdy enough to carry a reasonable BDR load. And honestly, it's not as bad on the freeway as I thought it would be. Would I choose it for a 1000-mile highway journey? Heck no. Can I deal with it for a couple hours? Sure. And it's an absolute BLAST lane-splitting through traffic.
You can't have it all, and with this bike, reasonable maintenance intervals are the major thing you can't have. You just have to accept that as the price of entry. Oil changes are a 10-minute job if you get a skid plate that allows access to the drain plug. And it only takes 1.2qt of oil, so they aren't expensive either. I can live with it, for everything else I'm getting.
Honda CRF450L Rally, customised it and ride for rest of your life.
🌻
Didn’t read the comments BUT this bike DID exist and it was stopped and banned from racing because it was TOO GOOD and TOO CHEAP! V twin 70+hp and 350lbs…. aprilia sxv 550. Your welcome.
Aprilia was on the right track but that bike had problems
Closest yet, the Aprilia Tuareg 660?
Cant argue with that
Very well said but there is still another dimension. For example, if I wanted to ride between Telluride and Ouray, I could do it without ever leaving pavement, or I could do it without ever leaving the dirt. So that is the choice you refer to. But certain choices are made for us instead. For example, I could choose a dirt bike for the street but only one that has a license plate, or I could choose a street bike for the dirt but only so long as it has the needed traction and clearance. So either way, you make a choice to start out on the street but at some point the trail is presented to you. Or you start on the trail, but at some point you have to ride on the paved roads. So the unicorn everyone really wants, is a street legal machine that go as deep offroad as desired. Sometimes that machine won't take you as deep as you want. Sometimes the machine that can take you as deep as you want won't take you on the highway. So the choice between 50-50 or 70-30 is a moving target, for everybody, and everybody looks for the bike they are capable of handling everywhere they want it to go, and they want it carry them comfortably as far and as fast as they would like. Therefore the perfect unicorn bike is a 200/200/200 machine with heated seats and grips that weighs nothing, 13 inches of clearance that you can easily plant both feet down, that's 200 mph, 200 mile range, 200 lbs.
Just buy a Pumpkin 690 or Husky 701 as it ticks all your boxes.
Can be built & they are, lots of us have built purpose built ADV bikes. The types of motorcycles available néw & old is huge. Easy to create your own unicorns 👍.
Hmmm...i think that xt 700 tenere is what you talkin about..except from weight ,is just 20 kilos more...
Its close I like the Tuareg a bit better
Just give the drz 400 6 gears then perfect can do it all bike
Crf 300 rally costs about 20k usd in Nepal 😢
It can exist. Yamaha could do it tomorrow. With their 700cc parallel twin out of the MT 07. Fitted with a lightweight compact Koenigsegg "Free Valve cylinder head. Aprilia SXV 550 V Twin. Could be modernised and increased in capacity.
Fantic Caballero 500 Rally.
You’re welcome.
You over complicated your answer so much in the second half of this video. The only thing stopping these companies from making a unicorn Dualsport is price. They could all make this bike but it would cost 17-20k and it would need an aluminum frame, which is not the best for global travel.
Another reason they don’t make this unicorn bike is because it would kill the sales of other bikes in their line up. If Kawasaki made a Versys 400x with a 21/18 rim no one would buy the Ninja 400, KLX300 or KLR650. One bike would kill the sales of 3 other models. That’s my conspiracy theory.
I overcomplicate everything but I covered pricing and model conflicts in this video ruclips.net/video/R-MmWtkMXc0/видео.html
Your unicorn bike and mine are different. I want mine to be lighter and with a smaller engine. I'm thinking a 450 twin with 50hp that's around 325lbs. 11+ inches of ground clearance and 8+inches travel front/rear. 600-800cc is too big.
Also we aren't all buying the 690 not because it's a thumper but because KTM reliability is a joke.
Im happy with my 450RL its Unicorn enough for me
The LC4 is perfect. Only reason people don't go for 690/701 is because they want COMFORT, and they usually don't have the riding-skills to use it to the fullest..... Because honestly, why buy a "heavy" offroad capable machine, when you're hardly ever offroad?
YES it's definitely theory nr.2. Most "Adventure riders" stay on the road, and don't want the lose in comfort from riding on a smaller bike.
People don't buy 690/701 for adventure because what they say they do vs what they actually do, does not necessitate such a drasticly capable bike. The average ADV guy rides about 6000 km a year! Now why doen't KTM build a 690 with a 20 L fuel tank ... easy, the real demand is not there, I absolutely agree with you. But in my book, the 690 IS the real 50/50 unicorn.
Plus they buy the 690 and realize how good it is off road and start ripping it up
Customers also didn't know they wanted an iPhone before it was born! 50/50 Honda CRF500L + CRF650L Africa Twin as well as in Enduro Sports version- That's motorcycle freedom!
A CRF 650 would be the shiz
A modified DR650 is about as close as your going to get. It can check off all of the boxes except the hp box. A Honda 450 rally would be interesting. One thing is for sure. The heavy weight bikes absolutely suck off road.
that and a 650L
Aprilia Tuareg:
- 660 cc
- 80 hp
- 400 pound dry weight
- low center of gravity
- 21” front wheel
- 12,000 $ price tag
Guess the unicorn is real
I think so but most riders wont buy one because its Italian and a small dealer neteork
Yeah I disagree on the 50/50 rider because I am that rider and I use my adv bike to ride around and to work and dirt bike during sunset and want a little more street focused dual sport that’s between a Drz and an adv. I don’t need something impossible something in the middle of that at a good price is what I’ve been waiting for. The 690 is a unicorn in my perspective but it’s very heavily priced.
Thanks for watching
I'd sell my left kidney for a 400-500cc single cylinder Japanese made dual sport with long maintenance intervals, and proper 6spd (low 1st, high 6th). Make it rally style and I'll give both my kidneys :p
I've seen my share of ktms leave people stranded in the boonies so I'm pretty against getting one, that's probably why people aren't buying them as much.
It's definitely doable, if a crf450l exists they can definitely do it.
Yea people hate the KTMs Thanks for watching 212
WR450F with Rallye kit on, here you have your ideal bike...
While I would be super excited for something like the AJP PR7, most people would not be. A single doesn't bother me at all. I ride a DR650 and have done big 12+ hr rides without ever thinking about the vibration but I also don't know what I'm missing. The short rides on my friends T7's have been insightful but didn't leave me questioning the single lyfe
Yamaha Tenere 700. I think that is about as close to the "unicorn" as you can get.
For now yes
That would be true if KTM didn't make 890R or Ducati DesertX.
Yamaha just needs to make a new xt500 and tt500
Th ktm 690, husky 701 is the unicorn! For me at least.
I can not disagree