I’m thinking of getting a D850 as well. I currently have a Z7ii. I found that the Z7ii Mirrorless blow out the highlights badly. Is it just me or were you having the same issues?
@@rudyversusI had opposite issue. I do 60% landscape and 40% wildlife. The D850 was great but the Z7ii gives me noticeably better dynamic range. I have the innermost customisable ring on the lens mapped to exposure compensation and it works perfectly with the live histogram on the EVF. That gives me something the D850 couldn't. Other factors are the Z mount and S glass are just plain better than F mount glass in every way. I have Z8 for wildlife AF and it blows the D850 out the water. Actual progress visibly made. I wouldn't go back to DSLR now.
@@TheAnimo92 not as good as D850. If you're planning a days shooting you'll definitely need a spare. I have a Z8 now too and thankfully they both take the same battery so I have 3 spares!
Hi! I'm a pro D850 shooter but very interested in trying the Z7 II. (About to take the plunge...). Could you explain what you mean by "innermost customizable ring mapped to exposure compensation?" I have no idea what you're saying. Thanks! Vic@@typhoon-7
For me, photography is about light and optics. Having spent 30 years working on dual monitors, I am sticking to OVF. Electronics is great for optimizing image processing but viewing subjects remains an optical phenomenon. I have the D850 and the image quality it provides is outstanding, especially with great fixed focal glass.
Completely agree. When it is -7F outside and I am trying to snap a wolf, I don’t need all the complications of EVF. I work hard to understand light and how the camera will process it, don’t need the finished product in the viewfinder, in fact it feels more like an obstacle. I’ll stick with the d4/5 and 4k-shot batteries for the entirety of my career. Couldn’t care less about MP higher than 20. Client prints are almost always 11x17 never bigger than poster size. Not sure what people are into these massive MP’s for.
Also I think the FPS war is ruining photography. Why do you need 20fps? Why not just film everything and pick stills then? The art of timing the perfect shot has been lost on the masses due to their impatience and attention span of a gnat. Streaming services have encouraged this.
same here .... for me it feels like to work with OVF is warm and employing heart, to work with EVF feels to me very cold and employing brain instead .. I am sticking with D850 as long as I can ... only what sucks a bit is that D850 feels a bit like a brick ...
I've been with Nikon since the mid 70's. Tried and own the Z system and they are brilliant, but you cant beat the Total versatility of the D850, the robustness and physical operation, image character of ALL f mount series glass and the value. I finally got my D850 from Nikon refurb for $1700, and guess what, it had two, yes 2 shutter clicks on it. It was brand spanking new. Upgrading a couple F lenses is MUCH cheaper than getting any equal Z replacement. I always say, if you are a pixel peeper, go with the Z system, however if you are a photo creator and welcome any crazy DSLR lens option go F mount. It all depends on your final goal as an image maker. The Z (S) glass is brilliantly clinical and perfect performers BUT the F glass has their own characters... I lean towards image character every time.
This is more vanity than truth I'm afraid....sounds good to oneself to speak about "character" over "clinical" as from pride you can see yourself as an artisan and "one who knows"..but you're simply wrong in vast quantities of wrongness....some F-glass has character....and many F-glass lenses don't have character.....some Z-glass lenses have character....and some Z-glass lenses don't have character....but obviously a Z mount body can run almost all of the F-mount glass that does have character, except the 28/1.4D and small handful of others....all the rest can be run on Z mount, and ALL of the Z lenses can be run on Z-mount bodies. ANDD all of the THIRD PARTY lenses "with so much character" CAN be run on Z-mount much more so than F-mount....so the statement you made is really more about sounding like a chef in the kitchen versus actually thinking it through clearly and with an honest intellectual objectivity. Pixel peeping is not something you choose a Z mount lens system for...that's juvenile and incredibly ignorant to say.....because "pixel peeping" is part of seeking the highest standards of performance, and there's nothing wrong with looking for the highest degrees of detail retention in the file and then by extension hopefully it makes it to the print as well....but what's NOT in the file will definitely not be in the print.....but no platform is more suited for "those who pixel peep".....as if everyone doesn't want the sharpest degrees of sharpness when sharpness is wanted as a critical component of the conveying. So...all that to say....your comment makes little sense as justification for saying "you prefer character every time"... that has little to do with F-mount v Z-mount.....unless you don't like all the Z-lenses that have character......
Honest reality check, when Nikon nano coated glass was introduced people said that things looked like CGI. Too clinicaly perfect. Dont fall for this sells pitches. Nothing is perfect and when the newer comes along they will make it seam like your eyes are bad and you cant see good!
I don't "create" photos. I record the scenes that already exist. I didn't create nature, didn't create people, didn't create the sun, earth, clouds, light and shadow. I'm not an image creator. A photographer and recorder of life as it exists, yes. Photogs like to say they "make" images. No, they didn't make that! God or something else made it. They snap a picture, from their perspective, that records the magic that already exists. I agree though that the camera is just a tool; it's what you do with it that counts. And the D850 is perfectly fine. It's a serious workhorse. And to me, pixel peeping is missing the point of it all, but people are different. Instead of buy a whole new Z system, if your computer is getting slow, freezing up in photoshop, etc, a new computer might be a better investment. Or stay with the one you have... I recently updated my 10-year-old iMac spending about $4300 on an M2 Mac Studio and a Apple Studio Display. Now I'm set for another 10 years. Also sold my 70-200 VR2 zoom and got the e-FL version. Great upgrade that was.
@@locophoto6881 He also talked about cost, and that made a lot of sense. The Z stuff is a lot of marketing to get people to ditch their old gear and buy more. If you are starting from scratch, then yes I'd get the latest Z maybe. But Nikon should not stop designing with new F-mount lenses. That amounts to abandoning their longtime customers. They should also come out with a D855, or whatever they want to call it.
I have a D800 I bought second hand, in high school. Still rocking with me today, and I’ve ran it through the dirt… but potentially thinking of upgrading
I can get a D850 for 1500 bucks used in excellent condition. Already have the trinity of lenses..and it still won’t make me a National Geographic photographer….and buying the latest n greatest won’t do for you either!
The camera we choose all comes down to purpose, utility etc. I've been shooting stock for 20 yrs, enough to make a living at it. For the past 10 yrs I've shot with the D300s. Recently upgraded to the D850; what a marvel! Will it make me more money? No Any of these cameras from $500 point & shoot to a $5,000 dslr will get the job done. It all comes down to what we want the camera for.
Think I'll hang onto my D850 a little while longer. Mirrorless is the future but it's still emerging. The D850 represents all of the research and development that went into DSLRs up until that point. The small grips and consumer feel of mirrorless turn me off too. Once the old and new technology is mated and properly refined it'll be a no brainer for me though I doubt that will be soon or particularly affordable when it arrives.
Just bought a D850 after disappointing experience with Z7ii and 6ii for wildlife, whether moving or still. It’s pro features such as lighted dials, ability to program focus modes to buttons, etc. make the Zs seem lower level consumer versions. Looking forward to the 850 to accompany my D500.
Have had the D850 for about a year now, after another year being torn apart between it and the Z7II, largely for the reasons pointed in this nice video. Ultimately budget was the reason for me to go for the D850, since here in Brazil the Z7II cost about 50% more at the time (even now it's about 20-25% more expensive), even brand-new - curiously, the D850 tends not to lose much value in the used market around here, so I went for a brand-new one. Nonetheless extremely happy with the purchase. The D850 is certainly worthy of all the praise it gets. Let me comment on the pros and cons against the Z7II that matter most to me, some of which perhaps didn't get that much attention: Some pros: 1.) Despite its size and weight, it's an ergonomic/haptic dream and extremely responsive. It simply invites you to shoot; 2.) It's much more customizable. I can no longer live without that for the type of photography I do with the D850 - for instance, to have four (!) different AF modes directly accessible through user-assigned buttons; 3.) It seems that the color science on the D850 and the Z7II is not exactly the same. I've seen reports that the D850's colors are ever so slightly more natural than the Z7II's, but at a level that is also largely lens-dependent, so whether this is really a pro is somewhat moot at this point. Regardless, it's a big pro of both cameras against other brands in my book. It has been my opinion for a long time that Nikon's color science blows that of Canon and Sony completely out of the water - many regard it as the closest in industry to Hasselblad's "gold standard". That, together with dynamic range (especially at base ISO 64 - you can recover so many highlight and shadow details in post without losing color accuracy, it's uncannily convenient) and metering/AF accuracy, is one of the main reasons why the D850 is regarded as the best DSLR ever made. To say that something like the Canon 1DX Mk III is better than the D850 just because of Live View (seriously?) and video capabilities is simply laughable (more on that later, though). Some cons: 1.) Live View doesn't use the insane phase-detection AF system the D850 inherited from the D5, which gives the former the AF edge over the Z7II in action scenarios (sports, wildlife). That is the main handicap of the D850 regarding video, since its contrast-detection AF in Live View is lackluster to say the least. For my use case, though, I can live with it, since my video usage is pretty much static (I use it only for shooting my university lectures at home) and even manual focus is enough. Simply put, despite its video output being great when focusing hits it, the D850 was never meant to be a hybrid camera. As a stills camera, though, it's unbeatable in the DSLR world for the reasons stated above. No other DSLR does so many things so well, and one cannot argue with the results; 2.) I definitely miss having IBIS. The D850's 45MP sensor is merciless when it comes to showing the flaws in the photographer's technique, particularly regarding camera shake with non-VR lenses. I find myself shooting handheld at least in 1/320-1/500 shutter speed most of the time, which limits my options regarding low light and larger DOF; 3.) Most importantly, that sweet, sweet Z glass... For instance, Nikon never really made a no-holds-barred, stellar 50mm F-mount lens for DSLR's as it did for other focal lengths. That changed with the Z mount - although I do like the 50mm 1.8 D and G lenses, they simply don't compare at all to the 50mm 1.8 S, let alone the 50mm 1.2 S. The 50mm 1.2 AI-S is an older, manual-focus design with a lot of vintage character but also a lot of flaws one must be prepared to deal with, and the F mount simply doesn't physically allow for an AF 1.2 lens. I cannot say much about the EVF since I don't have experience with it. My long-term game is to keep the D850 and get a lower-MP Nikon Z in the future, maybe the Z6 II or a future, Expeed 7-equipped upgrade of it (Z6 III?) for better AF. I think that a would-be Z8 or Z7 III, however great an upgrade to the D850 they turn out to be, will probably be too expensive for me for a long time. That's why I keep three (not necessarily mutually exclusive) categories of F-mount glass: (a) serious, (b), fun and (c) vintage. For (a), I prioritize top-notch primes that do not have a Z-mount equivalent on the current roadmap but will perform superbly through the FTZ adapter, thus being great long-term investments - I currently have the Nikkor 105mm f/1.4E, which is an absolutely insane portrait lens, and trying to sell my 24mm f/1.4G to get the 28mm f/1.4E (the 24mm is a bit flawed regarding CA and a bit too wide for my shooting interests - 28mm is my ideal wide-angle focal length). The 105mm and 28mm are newer designs, on par with the best Z-mount glass. As for (b), they are usually cheaper lenses that can be replaced with native glass in a Z-mount body without much fuss; besides the aforementioned 50mm primes, I have a 80-400mm f/4.5-5.6 G. The latter is currently my only zoom and my only VR lens. I don't think it's worth its price brand new (especially considering that the 100-400mm S is a superior lens in every way), but I've got a really good used deal on it and it's a pretty versatile lens. Finally, (c) comprises manual-focus AI-S lenses mainly meant for film (yeah, I still do that), but they work great on the D850 - to wit, the aforementioned 50mm f/1.2 and the marvellous 28mm f/2.8. Trying to get a 105mm f/2.5 as well (the so-called "Afghan Girl" lens, after Steve McCurry's iconic shot).
I’m a Sony shooter but with Voigtländer now making a line of Z mount glass that is another reason for Nikon shooters to consider one of their mirrorless cameras. Yes they make F mount glass as well but in particular the APO-Lanthars are absolute masterpieces.
@@Mr09260 For those that manual focus and a different look that the APO-Lanthars then yes they should buy them. The 50mm f2 in particular is special and according to some its even better than the 50mm f1.8 S.
@@Mr09260 Ridiculous comment. People should choose whatever lenses they want. Voigtlander lenses are unique and offer excellent character image quality and APO-Lanthar lenses have superb sharpness and character. My Voigtlander 40mm f1.2 E mount is my go to main lens.
I love the 105/1.4 ED. I’m borrowing it from my colleague because there was no 105mm (and 135mm for that matter) in Z-mount yet. Pair it with an F2Z adapter and you can mistake it for being native Z-mount. Beautiful rendering lens… There’s a Z 105 MC now and we’ve bought it, but for beauty portraits sometimes it’s almost too perfect! 😊
I agree, the D850 with 105 f mount is possibly the best portrait combo out there but my Z6 coupled with the 105 MC gives stunning renderings with a quality that is very special. And I still use a 80-200mm 2.8 D manual with my Z6, the X factor is very special for portraits. Manual focus though but with focus peaking it quickly becomes a killer combo. It is the glass and not the camera but the super clean rendering of mirrorless gives an extra enhancement.
Had a D500. Once I acquired a Z6 it was obvious even using the kit lens that the Nikon optical engineers were on to something important. Congratulations to Nikon for their courage in changing the mount. Current Z6/7 AF is not the best for sports/wildlife, but otherwise excellent. Once Z9 tech diffuses into the line, the cameras will best just great for all uses.
Nope. Have the Z6 and D500 and the Z6 is a roll of the dice if shots will be in focus or not...also lacks sharpness compared to D500, and the Z6 has banding issues. I'll hold off from investing in Z until it gets better.
Thank you! I sincerely appreciate this video even though it absolutely pounds on a raw nerve I have. I traded in my beloved D850 for a Z7II about a year ago, and it was hands-down the most difficult decision I have ever made about photography equipment in my entire life. I had been a lifelong SLR/DSLR shooter, and as you say in the video, I was totally convinced that the D850 was the pinnacle of the SLR/DSLR type. More importantly, I simply😅 loved shooting with the camera. It quickly became a natural extension of myself, and shooting with it was an almost euphoric experience. But, I have always prided myself on valuing the end photographic result above all else in photography, and there was no denying the facts. Under the same shooting circumstances and use cases, I could produce better images with the Z7II than with the D850. And, the reasons are exactly the ones you articulate: in particular, the Z glass is better and the IBIS produces sharper results for the kind of handheld work I predominantly do. So, a year ago, I made the painfully difficult “head over heart” decision to go with Z7II, and as expected, I am producing better images. But, damn, I still miss shooting with my beloved D850! Thanks.
I’m in the exact same situation you previously was , debating moving from my beloved D850 to a Z7ii 🤔 Will I see a major difference? I’m eager to try mirrorless but so scared of making the leap and the cost of new glass 🫣 I mainly use a 200-500mm and my 105mm 1.4 will they work on the Z7ii or do I need an adapter?
@@spookybookz9981 You'll need an FTZ adapter, but they should work. I have the 200-500 and a Z7ii (and Z FC, also a great camera). I used to be an SLR shooter, but after trying mirrorless, I won't be going back. Being able to actually see the image take shape through the viewfinder as you're making it is so much better. Plus the smaller, lighter camera. It's just plain better.
@@jaybleu6169 the EVF on the Sonys is really not good, laggy and poor quality imo, the Nikon Z7ii I tested in store seemed much better quality I do believe once I’m used to it there’s no going back..it’s just being brave and doing the switch lol 🤦♀️
@@spookybookz9981 Agreed. I was thinking about getting a Sony, just because I think they're better looking, to be honest. But trying them out in the store... the EVF is just not as good.
I miss my D850 having moved to (Fujifilm) mirrorless. The one big shout out to DSLRs is battery life. I really miss not having "range anxiety" and spending a fortune on spare batteries.
I still have my D850 with a complete (for me) set of lenses for nature photography. I recently picked up a Fuji X-T4 and I fell in love with Fuji's color science - I'm going to pick up a Fuji 100-400mm lens in the next few months to see how the X-T4 compares with my D850 paired with the Sigma 60-600mm. I'm not sold yet on making the switch for wildlife - although for landscape and street, or vacation photography the X-T4 wins hands down.
For the past 18 months, I have have been doing a lot of landscape photography with my D850. There are two issues that I have with the Z cameras generally, i.e. battery life and sensor cleanliness. Firstly, I like to leave my D850 powered on, perhaps in live view for hours at a time, waiting for the light to change, so I can react instantly. The D850 batteries last for around 3 hours in live view. The Z cameras, except for the Z9 perhaps which has a bigger battery, won't last that long. Secondly, the sensor on the Z cameras, again except for the Z9 which has a blind, is exposed to the elements when you remove the lens. This is very problematic for landscape photographers, when you are in poor weather conditions, e.g. rain, wind, sea spray, etc.. In addition, for landscape photography in particular, the image quality from the Z9 and Z7i/ii is no different to the D850. So, I will still use my current D850 for a long time to come, replacing it if need be with other second hand D850's.
Don't forget the different systems to save user settings. I found the D8.. in the beginning a very insecure harbour to return to (in terms of saved settings) but I got used to it quickly and don't want to go back to U1...U3. In Z 7 I struggled massively, some settings were excluded to save, naming of them not possible. Z might be the future, but at least the usability of a Z 7 is worse than the D850. Yes, I have them both.
Great video, well balanced giving the pros and cons between the two cameras and systems. Bottom line for me: I'm taking your advice at the very end of the video (waiting for a Z7iii/Z8 announcement), before (finally) making the move to mirrorless.
Here you first need to define "people" and "need". The average family snapshot grabber is more than happy with their cell phone pics. That's a different demo than people watching here.
I tend to rely on use cases to decide on which camera to use. For street, landscape, and travel no question the Z7ii is number one choice. I have used a D850 before in those scenarios and lugging it around all day was a major pain. Plus it’s the little things, like being able to charge the battery via usb-c in camera, and as you mentioned determining exposure via the EVF, that really support the experience. I even love highlight-weighted metering, which is great for street when working with shadows. For wildlife and sports/action hands down Z9, and portraits any of them.
@@3BMEP I would love to bring the Z9, but not this time. Very tempting. If we are going to see hawks or herons or a major motion picture production needs a cameraman in NYC let me know. Right now Z7ii w/ 24-120 for stills, iPhone 14Pro w/ DJI Osmo Gimbal for video. But always subject to change ;-)
That highlight-weighted metering is amazing, I've been using it for events (concerts, plays) with very erratic stage lighting and it consistently nails exposure with little help from me (via the lens control ring, set to exposure compensation for quick adjustments if needed).
80% of nikon users are still nikon F users. dont think everyone moved over and youre the last ones remaining. its the opposite. few have moved over to the unfinished z6/7 system and overpriced lenses. you can buy tons of used f glass for cheap.
My D500 is still my go to body. I shoot a TON of sports (martial arts, Football, & Hockey), and wildlife (I live in interior Alaska). I’m waiting until Nikon releases a Z series replacement for the D500, or makes a decent sports / wildlife prosumer camera that’s not the Z9 as it’s outside my budget.
I have the d800 and Z6, when I just got the Z6 I used it alot it was so new snappy, simply,superb; still I find myself using the d800. The simple layout, meaty body, battery you can forget to charge. They are both amazing tools I love to use. I really hope Nikon continues to innovate as those "nikon may soon be pentax " rumors are a little disheartening
My first Camera was d850 sold it out bought canon r5 sold it out again bought sont a7r5 sold it again biught nikon d850 ! The conclusion is no camera can replace d850 even in next 10 years ❤
@@Jimmy_Cavallo if everything camera does then what's the role of a photographer? A good photographer does know how to capture the birds in flight ! Imagine how do the photographers focus before the mirrorless camera come out 🤷♂️
The electronic viewfinder is a lifesaver in bright lighting situations. I love to be able to preview inside the viewfinder and not take my eye away from the subject. I did love my D850 but the lack of electronic viewfinder made me sell it. I also use a Fringer EF-NZ adapter on my z7ii for my Canon Glass like the gorgeous 85mm 1.4
How exactly do you find the electronic viewfinder superior? Its dynamic range is so low that in planty scenes areas in highlights are blown out to the degree that one can't even see the subject.
I have watched this video numerous times. Good points for each. However, I am a long time Nikon DSLR shooter and film shooter from the 1970's. The DSLR's never failed me. I became caught up in the ML frenzy about 18 months ago. Nikon did not have what I wanted in a ML camera. I sold/traded much of my Nikon F mount lenses and camera bodies and purchased a Canon R5. The ML R5 camera is stunning. It also locks up when at the worst time possible. The batteries like all ML cameras drain so fast. The RF lenses are sharp but no character. What Nikon gear I have is heavier, larger and when switching back and forth from the Canon ML to using the Nikon d810, d4s and the d700 it takes some time to get readjusted. I am on the fence still after 18 months of using the ML camera. I need to decide which way to go. I am not a pro shooter, was at one time. I do not do video. Mainly shoot landscapes, storm chasing, pets, birds and flowers. Living in the best of times and the worst of times when it comes to photography. One day I would like to sell all of my R5 gear and pick up a D850 (I should have done that instead of going ML) and picking up a D850 and buying back some used, cheaper F mount lenses.
my favourite lens of all time is the Micro Nikkor 105mm f2.8G. I consider it the best lens I've used, and I've used a lot including Fuji GF lenses. On my D700 it produces stellar results.
I had had the Nikon 850 in hand - a great feeling everything fits - but today I would prefer a slightly smaller body. When you get used to the eye autofocus and the other conveniences it is a clear step back - but occasionally I would like to shoot with a classic DSLR again - almost pure.
Since I already own a D850 (since 2018), the Z7ii is a non-starter. Combined with the 300mm F4 PF, awesome for shooting surfers in SoCal. I'll wait for a Z8 - thanks.
The big problem with KEH is that they don't list shutter counts or serial numbers, which makes it incredibly difficult to make an informed buying decision because everyone else openly shares this information. That information specifically can be incredibly important when making a decision. I have been buying from them for more than 15 years and found their quality to be much lower in the last 2 years than all the previous years combined. I now look at many other sources when buying gear, whereas before, I only bought from KEH. I have made the suggestion many times to them about the serial number and shutter counts, and they don't seem to care. Newsflash KEH, there are many other good sources for used camera gear, and every company will eventually come to an end.
Thanks Hugh. I think there is a Nikon AF-S 24-70 f2.8 E ED in my future. Looks to be a spectacular lens, but also looks to have no aperature ring? Are these newer lenses all adjust internally for aperature via the camera body?
I own them all D850 Z7/Z7ii/Z6ii D3s D5 I'm at the point where i use the best system for the job at hand. But it's really hard to put the Z7ii down. That 50mm, 85mm, 105mm macro are STUPID SHARP!!!
@@Jimmy_CavalloI can say a lot. But a lot is being said in this video. I've happen to have a lot of VR/VC lenses to help with the D850. but the Z7/Z7ii image quality is just that good. The d850 is so demanding you really need VR lenses or a monopod/tripod. I love the buttons on my d850 but like I said. I use them all. The Z system is the way to go though.
I own the D7000 and get excellent results from it. I also have a D810, but Stephen Hawking is never around to sort out the confusion I encounter with the complex D810. Love your D7000: it’s still a remarkable camera.
I have exactly zero dogs in this fight... No connection to either of these cameras... But I'm going to watch this anyway just for your images that you always use to illustrate what you are discussing. This is perhaps the best illustrated photo channel in the biz..
Some older (and current) F-Mount lenses have **character** and that's something that can be sorely missed from newer glass in the pursuit of clinical perfection.
I bypassed the 850 and went to mirrorless and never looked back. I still like my D500 but it's not as versatile as my Mirrorless and the Z glass is outstanding. This video hits the nail on the head.
Revisiting this video after watching when you directly uploaded. Loved what you said at the start. Between that and showing the chart of the progression of mirrorless vs DSLRs, it's definitely changed. I had the D850 since it launched and it was a good camera but as of today the Z series and the range of Z glass and third party lenses make it a much better offer and a lighter, slimmer one at that. I personally traded all of my Nikon gear for a Leica M and Leica Q2 combo as my needs have changed and I couldn't be happier.
I went back from mirrorless to DSLR (D850). Personally I find shooting mirrorless, is photography in easy mode. The camera does all the work with eye af etc. For me it removed all the fun and challenge out of photography.
I totally agree. I spent too many years shooting film and learning photography. I don't need all the crutches available in the z system or the mirrorless system.
Nothing wrong with DSLR. For me, mirrorless doesn't make photography "easy" - it's just a tool that's far more capable for different goals. The only challenge I care about in photography is creating the best possible final image possible. Mirrorless opens up quite a few doors here.
😆😄😅these comments!! … remind me of staunch snobby film shooters when digital came of age & more affordable way back when and now those haters then, most won’t even bother to pick up their ‘film’ camera gear! shooting Dslr or mirror less is same thing only 1 piece of kit shows a live wysiwyg while exposing- IF one wanted to, you can turn all the evf and wysiwyg in the mirrorless and basically be shooting ‘Dslr style’ - no difference in how it all plays out!! Also, if one uses live mode on back Dslr, that is pretty much same thing as mirror less minus the evf option shooting Dslr was considered “easy mode” to film photogs at the start way back when as well just say’n 😅 i have shot film when that was the only option and have moved thru all advancements of the years and never thought once the new innovations of photography were anything more than tools that get the job done - now, just quicker as per having shots in your hands for viewing and or editing immediately instead of sending off for processing, darkroom time or when 1 hour process became available. I am still in charge of composition, exposure & creativity in all aspects! ~Peace ✌🏼
@@andreak4280 I used to wear diapers when I was potty training, I also don't put a diaper on now either. Not a hater, just an adult with an opinion. You go on to explain similarities, and how one can mitigate differences by turning those features off. I have chosen to stay with the DSLR and not pay for all those features I would choose to turn off. I can do most of the things that mirrorless cameras can do, even with my view camera ( which happens to take film). I have been taking photographs for a long time, even before 1 hour processing was available. I started digital quite early in 2006. So, My views are not based in hatred, but in experience.
Great analysis! You asked for us to share our picks for F-mount lenses that adapt well to Z bodies. I'm slowly unloading my extensive collection of F-mount lenses, but the one I will never give up is my Nikon AF-S Nikkor 200mm f/2G. On my Z6ii, but especially on my Z9, it makes me look like a far better photographer than I really am. Stunning image quality.
You can always go back :-) I shoot F5 and D3 and love the images they produce, but then I'm not pixel peeking or making direct comparison to Mirrorless
I’ve just laid out on a nearly new D850 for nearly half the price of the Z7II. I wanted it to go with my D4 because, yes, the dynamic range and matrix metering is still a long way ahead of Canon. I wanted it specifically to build a mini-system around the Tamron 35-150 1:2.8-4. This is my absolutely most useful zoom lens of any (I know that’s a minority view) and it’s now only made as a new, faster version for Sony. Apropos the newer lens designs, they are generally sharper and better corrected. I like the best older Nikkors though. The nineties pro lenses were built to totally uncompromising mechanical standards and low distortion ED glass. And in the real world, the 10/10 sharpness is so unimportant. Except for at their widest apertures, most good heritage lenses were always as good as you will ever need. DSLRS are no use as hybrids but I like optical finders well enough and I like the great battery life you get without having to keep switching on and off, or waiting for the camera to wake. The best DSLRS just work and there’s no futz, so to speak. But, clearly, they are also passing into history as mirrorless is the now and the future.
I still have two D800’s that I use. I encourage any new photographer starting out with no body or lenses to go the mirrorless route. I have a good assortment of Nikon F glass. I will be switching over to Nikon Z bodies for my next purchase of a Nikon body. I truly believe that mirrorless and Z mount glass are the future.
I am primarily a D850 shooter but also have a Z6ii for video. I shoot a lot of motorsports and agree, pretty much, with your comments, the ovf on the 850 is better for what I shoot. Personally, I would skip the z7's for the z9, just for the new continuous evf. Panning an object moving 150mph is difficult when the evf is presenting a slo-mo slide show. I am anxious to see if the rumored z8 features the z9 evf. That will probably be the impetus for me to go f/t mirrorless. 🍻
Interesting. I shoot mainly motorsports and saw the Z7ii for sale at a hugely reduced price yesterday so I ordered it. Now doing a lot of research...too late!.... it seems itll be hopeless for my needs. is the auto focus really that bad? I'm currently using a D810 and D750.
You do a great job (throughout all your videos) of defining the problem, laying out all the options, and recommending solutions; you provided a seamless integration of KEH into the narrative (and that is a good thing as I think quite highly of KEH). I had a D850 and I still miss it although I am happy with the Z7II and expect to really like the Z9 I have ordered but not yet received. Along with missing the D850, two F-mount lenses I also miss are the 200mm F2 and the 105mm F1.4 that you referenced. Both were outstanding at producing gorgeous portraits. Matt Granger frequently sings the praises of these two lenses.
I love your channel and love your reviews. I own the D850 along with the full range of quality Nikkor and Sigma glass. I've been experimenting with a Fuji X-T4 for the last 6 months and I'm sold on the whole mirror less workflow. Shooting with my X-T4 is almost a cant miss affair, using the back screen as a viewfinder. I'm seriously considering selling my D850 and D750 to help finance the purchase of a Z7II with an F-Mount adapter of course. I'd love to get the Z8 but I cant justify the expense as of right now. Thanks again - you're my go to channel for honest reviews. Your review of the Sigma 18-50mm drove me to purchase it for my X-T4 and I couldn't be happier.
I'll be hanging onto my 2x 850's and picking up another couple, before I'll go anywhere near mirrorless Z or whatever else they call them. 40 plus, years of professional photography has taught me a thing or two. People need to learn to discern real photographic tools from marketing drives/fancy numbers, presented in enticing ways. My advice to anybody seriously about to invest in a pro camera, is to hire out an D850/Z7, won't be long before you know which works for you. end.
Fwiw, a follow up to my post below. I've now had a Z9, 24-120mm Z lens and the FTZ II adaptor for just over 3 months. They are an awesome combo. I still use the TS/PC-E lenses almost exclusively on my 850 bodies. Z9 focus peaking doesn't really help. Maybe I'm just too familiar with an SLR finder. One unexpected surprise from the Z9, since I can now see in the dark, I can often manually focusing in the dark. Very cool. I'm still hanging onto my 850s though. The Z9 mostly stays in the bag. Cheers
I recently purchased a D850 after wanting one for years. I’ve grown accustomed to the larger/heavier form factor as I’ve been shooting a D700 the past twelve years. And I already have a nice collection of F mount glass for 8-15, 16-35, 24-70, 70-200, 200-500… At sixty-seven I’m hesitant to invest in an entirely new camera system, although I have been watching an awful lot of Leica based videos… I realize I could utilize an adapter for my existing glass on a Z6/7 but there’s that size factor as well, bigger has always been better, right 🤔
These two cameras never appeared on my radar since I don't need a higher MP camera at the time they were released. Instead, I love my Z9 moment just as I did with the D3 back then. Lens wise, I have bought enough in my over four decade journey.
I went from the D700 to the D850 when it came out. I am personally on a budget so it fits me. I am invested in the f-mount. I do think the D850 provides me more than I think I'll ever need.... if I ever go pro, maybe I'll move to the mirrorless....It is attractive. good and honest review. thanks... Was that Ted Forbes I saw!?
@@PunjabiGymBeats I have been impressed with the iso on the 850, not really sure I notice the color difference. I still use the D700 for people and landscapes. The D850 is more for wildlife and birds. It really does well in cropping down for birds. I would go mirriorless, but I'm heavily invested in the F-mount.
I loved the 850 and won't part with it. I did buy the Z 7ll and the adapter, I have to say I rarely take my 850 put now and use mostly just Z glass. After using the Z 7ll for about three weeks and then taking the 850 I was shocked to see the weight difference and well I did have a Carl Zeiss 135mm app sooner on it which itself is a very heavy lens. I have fairly big hands but I have to say the ergonomics of the Z 7ll works perfect for me
I 'get it' that subject matter is probably the number one determining factor, closely followed by convenience (especially if you want to shoot video), when it comes to choosing mirrorless or DSLR, but I think people have become too accustomed to hyper-realistic (almost cartoonish) sharpness/clarity, that almost borders on, "graphic art" more so than, "photography". I have yet to see the camera/lens combo that was more consistently pleasing to MY eye than that of a (15 year-old) Nikon D700 and a good F mount lens. Mirrorless is obviously, "the next thing", but as someone who makes no money with photography, I'm not (re) buying all that glass over again. I am very happy with my D3s images.........and, I mainly shoot at night.
I would just throw that D5/D6 outperform the D850 in some areas that might be relevant for some users including low-light, and just speed of the AF and of course, longevity and reliability. I would love to collect a D6 at some point.
This video helped a lot. Had the D750 w/the trinity but had to sell everything because I went back to school. Been out of it for years and have no idea about mirrorless. Thanks for the info!! I love the name as a philosophy major, though it might go over the heads of most viewers lol!!
Love the decisiveness of this clip and what you have accomplished with it. Very clear! In my case, my kids have grown up. So I don’t shoot action any more. Mainly landscapes and travel. I kept my D810 and my 85mm F1.4 and sold the rest; because I am sentimental, love the tank-like build quality of the camera but hate its menus. I rarely use it now. I went the full way quality wise and went Fuji medium format. That’s another discussion….
58mm f1.4G is one of my favourite lense ever made, it's just makes every image perfect. One of the reason I would not want to jump to mirrorless is that I cant use that lens without a adapter. Hopefully Nikon will make a lens similar to that lens.
Still, there is something about seeing reality through the viewfinder, and the beautiful solid thunk of the shutter and mirror when taking a picture. Mirrorless - like my original Nikon Coolpix 8800 (2005) and all of their amateur series, even my P1000. But technology must move on..... Still, I love my D850, even my older D810.
Well said, being a tier 2 hobbyist on a budget with Z6, D750 and D800 bodies, I have been seduced by the Nikon mirrorless attributes and new lenses. My current "crush" is a just acquired 24-120/4S for my upcoming Australia vacation. The just released Z17-28mm f/2.8 is very appealing. However, I have a barely used AF-S 17-35 mm 1:2.8D and FTZ adaptor in my camera bag I would like to have more megapixels but will be keeping my powder dry until the Z8 becomes available. To be blunt, I can't justify getting a Z7 II.
I have a D850,Z7ii and Z9. The best image quality among them belongs to the Z7ii, the D850 is an ergonomic wonderful camera only second to the Z9 but has a better image quality and dynamic range than the Z9 . The Z7ii autofocus can’t satisfy the pros . What keeps the mirroless ahead of the dslr for me is the optics of the lens,inbody stabilization and af accuracy. I no longer shoot the d850 for those reasons.
Thanks for the quality content. The best part is, that the recording of your voice is superb, very enjoyable! D850/D500 shooter, one of my fav. lenses is the 135mm F2 DC. I started with aps-c and as soon as the BSI of the d850 was announced I knew I would get it. The trinity, 200-500, 20G 35G 50G 85G f1,8 and 180 f2,8D and the fine Tokina 100 f2,8 Makro. Z9 is the next logical step. Stacked BSI.. same pixel count. great. Dont want or need more - especially since shooting panos is getting easier, and 200+ MP pics are not an issue ... S glass, some day 🙂 greetings
Thank you! You just helped me decide to stay with my D850 and F mount lens a little longer. I may bite into the Z series, maybe, after the Z8 comes out.
I loved the d8xx series so much but switched to z last year. If you are not a very tech savy photographer, the z series is much better for guys like us
I recently got a S/H D850, but still use my D810A and D3. I just like the DSLR ergonomics. Also I have a dozen AF-D lenses that work beautifully with all of those cameras, and enough AF-S lenses to have no interest in upgrading everything. And adapters just feel like a fudge and another point of failure that doesn't interest me.
I think of my D850 and Z6ii collectively as a single camera to meet all my still photo needs, at least for now. I've been using the D850 for all my high resolution work since it was released. I recently purchased the Z6ii for portraits and events, and with your recommendation, I got that stunning Z 50mm f/1.8 S lens. I was looking at the Sony A7IV but ultimately decided that my stellar F-mount lenses (both native and 3rd-party) would fill out my Z6ii lens needs quite well, which it has. Certainly the Z 50 1.8 outperforms the Z6ii sensor, but the future is looking bright with the possibilities of a Z8 or a Z7iii and a few more choice Z lenses for those upcoming high res mirrorless sensors, including whatever Tamron and Sigma may bring to that table.
As you own both the D850 and z6ii Can u suggest which one will be better for weddings and portrait photography. Though z6ii is full of ai features but people nearby suggested to me that z6ii is good for videos and doesn't perform better results for photography. Should i invest in d850 ?
hold that thought... unless youre working in studio z7ii is a way to go. or even z7, same deal. for studio d850 is still holds its place. and i will stick to d850 for as long as it is sold :) old school is the new school :)
What camera & lens are you using to record this video presentation? It also looks fantastic. Great video! How would you say these Nikon cameras compare to Sony A7s?
I had a D7500, and then sold that, now using Z6ii, recently I shot one photo with my friend's D7500!! Now I realize I like EVF more than OVF. And of course human eye auto focus for portrait is excellent. I shoot birds with Z6ii+200-500mm f/5.6, feel like I need tp crop a lot, specially for small birds' photos, in Z6ii it creates a very small unusable file. So I decided to get a used D850 for better cropping support and slightly better autofocus performance. Of course Z7ii will not give me any autofocus improvement over Z6ii I think. and it's expensive. But now seeing your video I have changed my mind. Not going back to DSLR again. Better wait for a Z9 than buying a D850.
If your a amateur photographer and cost is a consideration you can save literally thousands of dollar’s with the D850, D810 or D750. There are so many F mount lenses by Nikon Tamron, Sigma etc etc etc the selection is so much fun to shop for and you know what NO ONE WILL KNOW WHAT CAMERA YOU USED. It doesn’t matter . Save your money buy a DSLR
Good analysis. I'm not in a hurry. I have my D850 with the lenses I need to do things requiring lots of pixels and fast autofocus. I have my Z5 with almost all the Z lenses that I need for more mundane tasks where 24MPix is enough.
Thanks for the nice Video, Hugh. Now, I sold two Canon-DSLRs (6D and 70D) to obtain a R6 and adapt my EF-Lenses. Everything is better, so i would agree with you. But there is one reason for me to earnestly consider to buy another used Canon-DSLR (1DxII) - and this is ergonomics. I think, that it is no difference between Nikon and Canon in respect to the fact, that adapting the DSLR-Lenses to a Mirrorless Camera results in a Camera with a big junk of glass (for instance my EF 85/1.4L IS) with a small body. In fact my R6 fits perfectly with my old Leica-Lenses, which ar tiny compared to the L-Glass. And the big EF-Lenses demand a Body, which is big enough in your hands to have a good feeling. And this is a DSLR. Greetings from Frankfurt am Main - Andreas
they both have strengths and weaknesses, like everything it is about knowing what you want from your camera. I would love the lightness (relatively speaking) of a mirrorless setup but I don't have $9K to spend on a Z9 to gain the robustness that I already have with my D850, it has been around the world 4 times now to some of the most unfriendly camera locations and hasn't missed a beat, so I'll continue lugging it around for a few more years yet! It is nice to know that if/when I am ready to change there are some awesome options available.
2 года назад+1
I will be waiting for gen III and get my overly financially cautious hands on the lower price Z6II or 7II. :D I am upgrading from a 12 year old D7000, and want the upgrade to blow my mind, even though as an amateur, a Z6 or 7 would be alright with their affordable prices now. BUT I don't want alright for the money. Such a huge positive difference between the first and second gen. Despite the bad-faith online bashing, I was rooting for the Z system since the first camera. It just seems like it's going to be a monolith of a system with a thoroughness and optical quality no other system has, can't wait for the future. Also: fully articulating screen please Nikon, at least on one of the upcoming IBIS bodies, let just the Z5II or Z6III have it.
Only a few Nikon F mount lenses will work fully automatically, with the adapter on a Z camera. The D850 is an excellent camera, for those of us with F mount lenses. And changing is something not affordable for many of us.
I was the biggest fan of the D850. I bought one with my own money. I shoot mostly landscape and wildlife. A weekend in the mountains with the Z7II and i was converted. The handling and sharpness of the Z glass just put it in a different world for me. So i switched. I get all the love for the D850, its an amazing camera with great lens options but for the best landscape shots, its a no brainer.
Hi, I don't understand what you mean by 10 tenths performance for sports or wildlife. That's big for me, as I shoot equine photography and dance recitals. Also, which do you prefer between the d850 and the d5 or d6? So, which camera do you recommend between the d850 and the Z7ii for what I shoot? Really and truly, I have the Z7ii and I am not happy with shooting action or the low light capability. Thanks
if you care "Anything" about AF ten its the D850 all day long no questions asked. I had D500/D850 . I tired both the Z7 and Z6ii cameras and was very unimpressed. Each of these had AF subpar to my D500 and I was getting 1/3rd the number of keepers. If you want a camera that compares to the D850 and is in the same ballpark then you have to look at the Z9. Nikon "Did Not" get the Af right for sports, wildlife and action in its mirror-less line up until the Z9.
If the D850 wasn't so brilliant it wouldn't keep getting compared to mirrorless! I sold my Z7ll and went back to D850.
I’m thinking of getting a D850 as well. I currently have a Z7ii. I found that the Z7ii Mirrorless blow out the highlights badly. Is it just me or were you having the same issues?
@@rudyversusI had opposite issue. I do 60% landscape and 40% wildlife. The D850 was great but the Z7ii gives me noticeably better dynamic range. I have the innermost customisable ring on the lens mapped to exposure compensation and it works perfectly with the live histogram on the EVF. That gives me something the D850 couldn't.
Other factors are the Z mount and S glass are just plain better than F mount glass in every way.
I have Z8 for wildlife AF and it blows the D850 out the water. Actual progress visibly made. I wouldn't go back to DSLR now.
@@typhoon-7how is the battery life? Im planning to buy a d850 since the lens will be cheaper compared to z-mount
@@TheAnimo92 not as good as D850. If you're planning a days shooting you'll definitely need a spare. I have a Z8 now too and thankfully they both take the same battery so I have 3 spares!
Hi! I'm a pro D850 shooter but very interested in trying the Z7 II. (About to take the plunge...). Could you explain what you mean by "innermost customizable ring mapped to exposure compensation?" I have no idea what you're saying. Thanks! Vic@@typhoon-7
For me, photography is about light and optics. Having spent 30 years working on dual monitors, I am sticking to OVF. Electronics is great for optimizing image processing but viewing subjects remains an optical phenomenon. I have the D850 and the image quality it provides is outstanding, especially with great fixed focal glass.
+1! 😉
Completely agree. When it is -7F outside and I am trying to snap a wolf, I don’t need all the complications of EVF. I work hard to understand light and how the camera will process it, don’t need the finished product in the viewfinder, in fact it feels more like an obstacle. I’ll stick with the d4/5 and 4k-shot batteries for the entirety of my career. Couldn’t care less about MP higher than 20. Client prints are almost always 11x17 never bigger than poster size. Not sure what people are into these massive MP’s for.
Also I think the FPS war is ruining photography. Why do you need 20fps? Why not just film everything and pick stills then? The art of timing the perfect shot has been lost on the masses due to their impatience and attention span of a gnat. Streaming services have encouraged this.
same here .... for me it feels like to work with OVF is warm and employing heart, to work with EVF feels to me very cold and employing brain instead .. I am sticking with D850 as long as I can ... only what sucks a bit is that D850 feels a bit like a brick ...
Which Nikon Lens resolves detail & contrast best, in your opinion ?
I've been with Nikon since the mid 70's. Tried and own the Z system and they are brilliant, but you cant beat the Total versatility of the D850, the robustness and physical operation, image character of ALL f mount series glass and the value. I finally got my D850 from Nikon refurb for $1700, and guess what, it had two, yes 2 shutter clicks on it. It was brand spanking new. Upgrading a couple F lenses is MUCH cheaper than getting any equal Z replacement.
I always say, if you are a pixel peeper, go with the Z system, however if you are a photo creator and welcome any crazy DSLR lens option go F mount. It all depends on your final goal as an image maker. The Z (S) glass is brilliantly clinical and perfect performers BUT the F glass has their own characters... I lean towards image character every time.
You are honest and correct.
This is more vanity than truth I'm afraid....sounds good to oneself to speak about "character" over "clinical" as from pride you can see yourself as an artisan and "one who knows"..but you're simply wrong in vast quantities of wrongness....some F-glass has character....and many F-glass lenses don't have character.....some Z-glass lenses have character....and some Z-glass lenses don't have character....but obviously a Z mount body can run almost all of the F-mount glass that does have character, except the 28/1.4D and small handful of others....all the rest can be run on Z mount, and ALL of the Z lenses can be run on Z-mount bodies. ANDD all of the THIRD PARTY lenses "with so much character" CAN be run on Z-mount much more so than F-mount....so the statement you made is really more about sounding like a chef in the kitchen versus actually thinking it through clearly and with an honest intellectual objectivity.
Pixel peeping is not something you choose a Z mount lens system for...that's juvenile and incredibly ignorant to say.....because "pixel peeping" is part of seeking the highest standards of performance, and there's nothing wrong with looking for the highest degrees of detail retention in the file and then by extension hopefully it makes it to the print as well....but what's NOT in the file will definitely not be in the print.....but no platform is more suited for "those who pixel peep".....as if everyone doesn't want the sharpest degrees of sharpness when sharpness is wanted as a critical component of the conveying.
So...all that to say....your comment makes little sense as justification for saying "you prefer character every time"... that has little to do with F-mount v Z-mount.....unless you don't like all the Z-lenses that have character......
Honest reality check, when Nikon nano coated glass was introduced people said that things looked like CGI. Too clinicaly perfect. Dont fall for this sells pitches. Nothing is perfect and when the newer comes along they will make it seam like your eyes are bad and you cant see good!
I don't "create" photos. I record the scenes that already exist. I didn't create nature, didn't create people, didn't create the sun, earth, clouds, light and shadow. I'm not an image creator. A photographer and recorder of life as it exists, yes. Photogs like to say they "make" images. No, they didn't make that! God or something else made it. They snap a picture, from their perspective, that records the magic that already exists.
I agree though that the camera is just a tool; it's what you do with it that counts. And the D850 is perfectly fine. It's a serious workhorse. And to me, pixel peeping is missing the point of it all, but people are different. Instead of buy a whole new Z system, if your computer is getting slow, freezing up in photoshop, etc, a new computer might be a better investment. Or stay with the one you have... I recently updated my 10-year-old iMac spending about $4300 on an M2 Mac Studio and a Apple Studio Display. Now I'm set for another 10 years. Also sold my 70-200 VR2 zoom and got the e-FL version. Great upgrade that was.
@@locophoto6881 He also talked about cost, and that made a lot of sense. The Z stuff is a lot of marketing to get people to ditch their old gear and buy more. If you are starting from scratch, then yes I'd get the latest Z maybe. But Nikon should not stop designing with new F-mount lenses. That amounts to abandoning their longtime customers. They should also come out with a D855, or whatever they want to call it.
I'm still here rocking the old D700 while watching this!
My shutter just gave out on my D700.. beautiful camera. Just bought a D850 to replace it. I loved my D700.
I’m still using my d3300 lol
I have a D800 I bought second hand, in high school. Still rocking with me today, and I’ve ran it through the dirt… but potentially thinking of upgrading
Me too….400 dollar camera and the nifty fifty…
I can get a D850 for 1500 bucks used in excellent condition. Already have the trinity of lenses..and it still won’t make me a National Geographic photographer….and buying the latest n greatest won’t do for you either!
I grew up with my dad's Spotmatic. The mirror slap will stay with me till the end of days.
The camera we choose all comes down to purpose, utility etc.
I've been shooting stock for 20 yrs, enough to make a living at it.
For the past 10 yrs I've shot with the D300s.
Recently upgraded to the D850; what a marvel! Will it make me more money? No
Any of these cameras from $500 point & shoot to a $5,000 dslr will get the job done.
It all comes down to what we want the camera for.
Think I'll hang onto my D850 a little while longer. Mirrorless is the future but it's still emerging. The D850 represents all of the research and development that went into DSLRs up until that point. The small grips and consumer feel of mirrorless turn me off too.
Once the old and new technology is mated and properly refined it'll be a no brainer for me though I doubt that will be soon or particularly affordable when it arrives.
Sadly, although it's really good now, it is still emerging, which means...prices just keep soaring out of reach for most :(
Just bought a D850 after disappointing experience with Z7ii and 6ii for wildlife, whether moving or still. It’s pro features such as lighted dials, ability to program focus modes to buttons, etc. make the Zs seem lower level consumer versions. Looking forward to the 850 to accompany my D500.
wont argue that
Have had the D850 for about a year now, after another year being torn apart between it and the Z7II, largely for the reasons pointed in this nice video. Ultimately budget was the reason for me to go for the D850, since here in Brazil the Z7II cost about 50% more at the time (even now it's about 20-25% more expensive), even brand-new - curiously, the D850 tends not to lose much value in the used market around here, so I went for a brand-new one. Nonetheless extremely happy with the purchase.
The D850 is certainly worthy of all the praise it gets. Let me comment on the pros and cons against the Z7II that matter most to me, some of which perhaps didn't get that much attention:
Some pros:
1.) Despite its size and weight, it's an ergonomic/haptic dream and extremely responsive. It simply invites you to shoot;
2.) It's much more customizable. I can no longer live without that for the type of photography I do with the D850 - for instance, to have four (!) different AF modes directly accessible through user-assigned buttons;
3.) It seems that the color science on the D850 and the Z7II is not exactly the same. I've seen reports that the D850's colors are ever so slightly more natural than the Z7II's, but at a level that is also largely lens-dependent, so whether this is really a pro is somewhat moot at this point. Regardless, it's a big pro of both cameras against other brands in my book. It has been my opinion for a long time that Nikon's color science blows that of Canon and Sony completely out of the water - many regard it as the closest in industry to Hasselblad's "gold standard". That, together with dynamic range (especially at base ISO 64 - you can recover so many highlight and shadow details in post without losing color accuracy, it's uncannily convenient) and metering/AF accuracy, is one of the main reasons why the D850 is regarded as the best DSLR ever made. To say that something like the Canon 1DX Mk III is better than the D850 just because of Live View (seriously?) and video capabilities is simply laughable (more on that later, though).
Some cons:
1.) Live View doesn't use the insane phase-detection AF system the D850 inherited from the D5, which gives the former the AF edge over the Z7II in action scenarios (sports, wildlife). That is the main handicap of the D850 regarding video, since its contrast-detection AF in Live View is lackluster to say the least. For my use case, though, I can live with it, since my video usage is pretty much static (I use it only for shooting my university lectures at home) and even manual focus is enough. Simply put, despite its video output being great when focusing hits it, the D850 was never meant to be a hybrid camera. As a stills camera, though, it's unbeatable in the DSLR world for the reasons stated above. No other DSLR does so many things so well, and one cannot argue with the results;
2.) I definitely miss having IBIS. The D850's 45MP sensor is merciless when it comes to showing the flaws in the photographer's technique, particularly regarding camera shake with non-VR lenses. I find myself shooting handheld at least in 1/320-1/500 shutter speed most of the time, which limits my options regarding low light and larger DOF;
3.) Most importantly, that sweet, sweet Z glass... For instance, Nikon never really made a no-holds-barred, stellar 50mm F-mount lens for DSLR's as it did for other focal lengths. That changed with the Z mount - although I do like the 50mm 1.8 D and G lenses, they simply don't compare at all to the 50mm 1.8 S, let alone the 50mm 1.2 S. The 50mm 1.2 AI-S is an older, manual-focus design with a lot of vintage character but also a lot of flaws one must be prepared to deal with, and the F mount simply doesn't physically allow for an AF 1.2 lens.
I cannot say much about the EVF since I don't have experience with it.
My long-term game is to keep the D850 and get a lower-MP Nikon Z in the future, maybe the Z6 II or a future, Expeed 7-equipped upgrade of it (Z6 III?) for better AF. I think that a would-be Z8 or Z7 III, however great an upgrade to the D850 they turn out to be, will probably be too expensive for me for a long time. That's why I keep three (not necessarily mutually exclusive) categories of F-mount glass: (a) serious, (b), fun and (c) vintage. For (a), I prioritize top-notch primes that do not have a Z-mount equivalent on the current roadmap but will perform superbly through the FTZ adapter, thus being great long-term investments - I currently have the Nikkor 105mm f/1.4E, which is an absolutely insane portrait lens, and trying to sell my 24mm f/1.4G to get the 28mm f/1.4E (the 24mm is a bit flawed regarding CA and a bit too wide for my shooting interests - 28mm is my ideal wide-angle focal length). The 105mm and 28mm are newer designs, on par with the best Z-mount glass. As for (b), they are usually cheaper lenses that can be replaced with native glass in a Z-mount body without much fuss; besides the aforementioned 50mm primes, I have a 80-400mm f/4.5-5.6 G. The latter is currently my only zoom and my only VR lens. I don't think it's worth its price brand new (especially considering that the 100-400mm S is a superior lens in every way), but I've got a really good used deal on it and it's a pretty versatile lens. Finally, (c) comprises manual-focus AI-S lenses mainly meant for film (yeah, I still do that), but they work great on the D850 - to wit, the aforementioned 50mm f/1.2 and the marvellous 28mm f/2.8. Trying to get a 105mm f/2.5 as well (the so-called "Afghan Girl" lens, after Steve McCurry's iconic shot).
I’m loving the deep well of experience so many people are sharing here. Thank you one and all!
I’m a Sony shooter but with Voigtländer now making a line of Z mount glass that is another reason for Nikon shooters to consider one of their mirrorless cameras. Yes they make F mount glass as well but in particular the APO-Lanthars are absolute masterpieces.
If its Not S Lens dont buy
@@Mr09260 For those that manual focus and a different look that the APO-Lanthars then yes they should buy them. The 50mm f2 in particular is special and according to some its even better than the 50mm f1.8 S.
@@Mr09260 Ridiculous comment. People should choose whatever lenses they want. Voigtlander lenses are unique and offer excellent character image quality and APO-Lanthar lenses have superb sharpness and character. My Voigtlander 40mm f1.2 E mount is my go to main lens.
Yóu're dead on about the Voigtlander lenses. I have one and I love using it on my Z6 and now Z9.
I love the 105/1.4 ED. I’m borrowing it from my colleague because there was no 105mm (and 135mm for that matter) in Z-mount yet. Pair it with an F2Z adapter and you can mistake it for being native Z-mount. Beautiful rendering lens… There’s a Z 105 MC now and we’ve bought it, but for beauty portraits sometimes it’s almost too perfect! 😊
I agree, the D850 with 105 f mount is possibly the best portrait combo out there but my Z6 coupled with the 105 MC gives stunning renderings with a quality that is very special. And I still use a 80-200mm 2.8 D manual with my Z6, the X factor is very special for portraits. Manual focus though but with focus peaking it quickly becomes a killer combo. It is the glass and not the camera but the super clean rendering of mirrorless gives an extra enhancement.
Had a D500. Once I acquired a Z6 it was obvious even using the kit lens that the Nikon optical engineers were on to something important. Congratulations to Nikon for their courage in changing the mount. Current Z6/7 AF is not the best for sports/wildlife, but otherwise excellent. Once Z9 tech diffuses into the line, the cameras will best just great for all uses.
Nope. Have the Z6 and D500 and the Z6 is a roll of the dice if shots will be in focus or not...also lacks sharpness compared to D500, and the Z6 has banding issues. I'll hold off from investing in Z until it gets better.
@Gordon First series. I have a Z9, and it is just great
That voice is golden!
Thank you! I sincerely appreciate this video even though it absolutely pounds on a raw nerve I have. I traded in my beloved D850 for a Z7II about a year ago, and it was hands-down the most difficult decision I have ever made about photography equipment in my entire life. I had been a lifelong SLR/DSLR shooter, and as you say in the video, I was totally convinced that the D850 was the pinnacle of the SLR/DSLR type. More importantly, I simply😅 loved shooting with the camera. It quickly became a natural extension of myself, and shooting with it was an almost euphoric experience.
But, I have always prided myself on valuing the end photographic result above all else in photography, and there was no denying the facts. Under the same shooting circumstances and use cases, I could produce better images with the Z7II than with the D850. And, the reasons are exactly the ones you articulate: in particular, the Z glass is better and the IBIS produces sharper results for the kind of handheld work I predominantly do.
So, a year ago, I made the painfully difficult “head over heart” decision to go with Z7II, and as expected, I am producing better images.
But, damn, I still miss shooting with my beloved D850!
Thanks.
I’m in the exact same situation you previously was , debating moving from my beloved D850 to a Z7ii 🤔 Will I see a major difference? I’m eager to try mirrorless but so scared of making the leap and the cost of new glass 🫣 I mainly use a 200-500mm and my 105mm 1.4 will they work on the Z7ii or do I need an adapter?
@@spookybookz9981 You'll need an FTZ adapter, but they should work. I have the 200-500 and a Z7ii (and Z FC, also a great camera). I used to be an SLR shooter, but after trying mirrorless, I won't be going back. Being able to actually see the image take shape through the viewfinder as you're making it is so much better. Plus the smaller, lighter camera. It's just plain better.
@@jaybleu6169 the EVF on the Sonys is really not good, laggy and poor quality imo, the Nikon Z7ii I tested in store seemed much better quality I do believe once I’m used to it there’s no going back..it’s just being brave and doing the switch lol 🤦♀️
@@spookybookz9981 Agreed. I was thinking about getting a Sony, just because I think they're better looking, to be honest. But trying them out in the store... the EVF is just not as good.
@@jaybleu6169 and your limited with glass, far more lenses on Nikon side. I’ll put the z7ii and an 85mm Z lens on my Christmas list I think 👍
I miss my D850 having moved to (Fujifilm) mirrorless. The one big shout out to DSLRs is battery life. I really miss not having "range anxiety" and spending a fortune on spare batteries.
I still have my D850 with a complete (for me) set of lenses for nature photography. I recently picked up a Fuji X-T4 and I fell in love with Fuji's color science - I'm going to pick up a Fuji 100-400mm lens in the next few months to see how the X-T4 compares with my D850 paired with the Sigma 60-600mm. I'm not sold yet on making the switch for wildlife - although for landscape and street, or vacation photography the X-T4 wins hands down.
Thank you for this video!! I have been struggling to choose between the two. Greatly appreciated .
Glad to be of service. 😊🖖🏻
For the past 18 months, I have have been doing a lot of landscape photography with my D850. There are two issues that I have with the Z cameras generally, i.e. battery life and sensor cleanliness. Firstly, I like to leave my D850 powered on, perhaps in live view for hours at a time, waiting for the light to change, so I can react instantly. The D850 batteries last for around 3 hours in live view. The Z cameras, except for the Z9 perhaps which has a bigger battery, won't last that long. Secondly, the sensor on the Z cameras, again except for the Z9 which has a blind, is exposed to the elements when you remove the lens. This is very problematic for landscape photographers, when you are in poor weather conditions, e.g. rain, wind, sea spray, etc.. In addition, for landscape photography in particular, the image quality from the Z9 and Z7i/ii is no different to the D850. So, I will still use my current D850 for a long time to come, replacing it if need be with other second hand D850's.
Very good point about the sensor protection.
3 hours? Gee, mine last about half that. Camera is taking lots of pics, not sitting though.
Don't forget the different systems to save user settings. I found the D8.. in the beginning a very insecure harbour to return to (in terms of saved settings) but I got used to it quickly and don't want to go back to U1...U3. In Z 7 I struggled massively, some settings were excluded to save, naming of them not possible. Z might be the future, but at least the usability of a Z 7 is worse than the D850. Yes, I have them both.
Great video, well balanced giving the pros and cons between the two cameras and systems. Bottom line for me: I'm taking your advice at the very end of the video (waiting for a Z7iii/Z8 announcement), before (finally) making the move to mirrorless.
Either camera is much more than most people need.
Here you first need to define "people" and "need". The average family snapshot grabber is more than happy with their cell phone pics. That's a different demo than people watching here.
@@csc-photo Yes. Most people watching here. Including you.
I tend to rely on use cases to decide on which camera to use. For street, landscape, and travel no question the Z7ii is number one choice. I have used a D850 before in those scenarios and lugging it around all day was a major pain. Plus it’s the little things, like being able to charge the battery via usb-c in camera, and as you mentioned determining exposure via the EVF, that really support the experience. I even love highlight-weighted metering, which is great for street when working with shadows. For wildlife and sports/action hands down Z9, and portraits any of them.
Claudia & I were just talking about you, wondering whether you’d bring the ‘7 II or ‘9. Or both!
@@3BMEP I would love to bring the Z9, but not this time. Very tempting. If we are going to see hawks or herons or a major motion picture production needs a cameraman in NYC let me know. Right now Z7ii w/ 24-120 for stills, iPhone 14Pro w/ DJI Osmo Gimbal for video. But always subject to change ;-)
@@DeanAllman sounds perfect!
That highlight-weighted metering is amazing, I've been using it for events (concerts, plays) with very erratic stage lighting and it consistently nails exposure with little help from me (via the lens control ring, set to exposure compensation for quick adjustments if needed).
Is it possible to accurately determine depth-of-field when using a Mirrorless camera?
Love your delivery. As a presenter, I always dig other's styles. Nice job.
I love my D500 and really would love a D850 as a 2nd camera. I have no plans to move towards the Z system currently.
80% of nikon users are still nikon F users. dont think everyone moved over and youre the last ones remaining. its the opposite. few have moved over to the unfinished z6/7 system and overpriced lenses. you can buy tons of used f glass for cheap.
My D500 is still my go to body. I shoot a TON of sports (martial arts, Football, & Hockey), and wildlife (I live in interior Alaska). I’m waiting until Nikon releases a Z series replacement for the D500, or makes a decent sports / wildlife prosumer camera that’s not the Z9 as it’s outside my budget.
I have the d800 and Z6, when I just got the Z6 I used it alot it was so new snappy, simply,superb; still I find myself using the d800. The simple layout, meaty body, battery you can forget to charge. They are both amazing tools I love to use. I really hope Nikon continues to innovate as those "nikon may soon be pentax " rumors are a little disheartening
My first Camera was d850 sold it out bought canon r5 sold it out again bought sont a7r5 sold it again biught nikon d850 ! The conclusion is no camera can replace d850 even in next 10 years ❤
Does the D850 do focus tracking with birds in flight.??
@@Jimmy_Cavallo if everything camera does then what's the role of a photographer? A good photographer does know how to capture the birds in flight ! Imagine how do the photographers focus before the mirrorless camera come out 🤷♂️
The electronic viewfinder is a lifesaver in bright lighting situations. I love to be able to preview inside the viewfinder and not take my eye away from the subject. I did love my D850 but the lack of electronic viewfinder made me sell it. I also use a Fringer EF-NZ adapter on my z7ii for my Canon Glass like the gorgeous 85mm 1.4
How exactly do you find the electronic viewfinder superior? Its dynamic range is so low that in planty scenes areas in highlights are blown out to the degree that one can't even see the subject.
I have watched this video numerous times. Good points for each. However, I am a long time Nikon DSLR shooter and film shooter from the 1970's. The DSLR's never failed me. I became caught up in the ML frenzy about 18 months ago. Nikon did not have what I wanted in a ML camera. I sold/traded much of my Nikon F mount lenses and camera bodies and purchased a Canon R5. The ML R5 camera is stunning. It also locks up when at the worst time possible. The batteries like all ML cameras drain so fast. The RF lenses are sharp but no character. What Nikon gear I have is heavier, larger and when switching back and forth from the Canon ML to using the Nikon d810, d4s and the d700 it takes some time to get readjusted. I am on the fence still after 18 months of using the ML camera. I need to decide which way to go. I am not a pro shooter, was at one time. I do not do video. Mainly shoot landscapes, storm chasing, pets, birds and flowers. Living in the best of times and the worst of times when it comes to photography. One day I would like to sell all of my R5 gear and pick up a D850 (I should have done that instead of going ML) and picking up a D850 and buying back some used, cheaper F mount lenses.
my favourite lens of all time is the Micro Nikkor 105mm f2.8G. I consider it the best lens I've used, and I've used a lot including Fuji GF lenses. On my D700 it produces stellar results.
D700 is truly a legend, it makes every lens shine.
The 105mm F2.8 MC is noticeably better. I loved my 105mm F2.8 AF-D, but the MC is sharper, has better bokeh, and no CA.
Does D3 share the same sensor with D700 ?
@@sauravbasu8805 I believe so
Great video breaking down a question that we get often from our Nikon shooting customers. Keep up the amazing work!
Thanks, team!
I had had the Nikon 850 in hand - a great feeling everything fits - but today I would prefer a slightly smaller body. When you get used to the eye autofocus and the other conveniences it is a clear step back - but occasionally I would like to shoot with a classic DSLR again - almost pure.
Mirrored vs mirrorless is like vinyl vs spotify. It just such a joy to use an slr.
D700, D810, D850. All three are awesome and very satisfying. Don't need to go mirrorless. If it aint broke, don't fix it.
Since I already own a D850 (since 2018), the Z7ii is a non-starter. Combined with the 300mm F4 PF, awesome for shooting surfers in SoCal. I'll wait for a Z8 - thanks.
The big problem with KEH is that they don't list shutter counts or serial numbers, which makes it incredibly difficult to make an informed buying decision because everyone else openly shares this information. That information specifically can be incredibly important when making a decision. I have been buying from them for more than 15 years and found their quality to be much lower in the last 2 years than all the previous years combined. I now look at many other sources when buying gear, whereas before, I only bought from KEH. I have made the suggestion many times to them about the serial number and shutter counts, and they don't seem to care. Newsflash KEH, there are many other good sources for used camera gear, and every company will eventually come to an end.
ditto
How are they for buying used lenses? I realize there are other concerns with a lens vs a camera body.
@thomassanio8745 I’ve bought lenses from them with great success. Most recently: Leica Elmar 24/3.8. Love it!
Thanks Hugh. I think there is a Nikon AF-S 24-70 f2.8 E ED in my future. Looks to be a spectacular lens, but also looks to have no aperature ring? Are these newer lenses all adjust internally for aperature via the camera body?
I own them all
D850
Z7/Z7ii/Z6ii
D3s
D5
I'm at the point where i use the best system for the job at hand.
But it's really hard to put the Z7ii down. That 50mm, 85mm, 105mm macro are STUPID SHARP!!!
What can you say about the z7ii vs the D850.??
@@Jimmy_CavalloI can say a lot. But a lot is being said in this video. I've happen to have a lot of VR/VC lenses to help with the D850. but the Z7/Z7ii image quality is just that good.
The d850 is so demanding you really need VR lenses or a monopod/tripod.
I love the buttons on my d850 but like I said. I use them all. The Z system is the way to go though.
@@LMoProVisualComm D3 and D5 Far superior to use as a self defense weapon versons the Z series. 😛
If I had Hughs voice in my google assistant i’d ask it questions all day long.
The best comment IMO. 👍👍
I am poor d7000 owner just watching videos like this and have no idea when am I gonna upgrade. Great video BTW. Awesome info in a precise manner.
I own the D7000 and get excellent results from it. I also have a D810, but Stephen Hawking is never around to sort out the confusion I encounter with the complex D810. Love your D7000: it’s still a remarkable camera.
I have exactly zero dogs in this fight... No connection to either of these cameras... But I'm going to watch this anyway just for your images that you always use to illustrate what you are discussing. This is perhaps the best illustrated photo channel in the biz..
Some older (and current) F-Mount lenses have **character** and that's something that can be sorely missed from newer glass in the pursuit of clinical perfection.
I bypassed the 850 and went to mirrorless and never looked back. I still like my D500 but it's not as versatile as my Mirrorless and the Z glass is outstanding. This video hits the nail on the head.
😊👊🏻
Revisiting this video after watching when you directly uploaded. Loved what you said at the start. Between that and showing the chart of the progression of mirrorless vs DSLRs, it's definitely changed. I had the D850 since it launched and it was a good camera but as of today the Z series and the range of Z glass and third party lenses make it a much better offer and a lighter, slimmer one at that. I personally traded all of my Nikon gear for a Leica M and Leica Q2 combo as my needs have changed and I couldn't be happier.
I went back from mirrorless to DSLR (D850). Personally I find shooting mirrorless, is photography in easy mode. The camera does all the work with eye af etc. For me it removed all the fun and challenge out of photography.
I totally agree. I spent too many years shooting film and learning photography. I don't need all the crutches available in the z system or the mirrorless system.
Nothing wrong with DSLR. For me, mirrorless doesn't make photography "easy" - it's just a tool that's far more capable for different goals. The only challenge I care about in photography is creating the best possible final image possible. Mirrorless opens up quite a few doors here.
😆😄😅these comments!! … remind me of staunch snobby film shooters when digital came of age & more affordable way back when and now those haters then, most won’t even bother to pick up their ‘film’ camera gear!
shooting Dslr or mirror less is same thing only 1 piece of kit shows a live wysiwyg while exposing- IF one wanted to, you can turn all the evf and wysiwyg in the mirrorless and basically be shooting ‘Dslr style’ - no difference in how it all plays out!! Also, if one uses live mode on back Dslr, that is pretty much same thing as mirror less minus the evf option
shooting Dslr was considered “easy mode” to film photogs at the start way back when as well
just say’n 😅
i have shot film when that was the only option and have moved thru all advancements of the years and never thought once the new innovations of photography were anything more than tools that get the job done - now, just quicker as per having shots in your hands for viewing and or editing immediately instead of sending off for processing, darkroom time or when 1 hour process became available.
I am still in charge of composition, exposure & creativity in all aspects!
~Peace ✌🏼
@@andreak4280 I used to wear diapers when I was potty training, I also don't put a diaper on now either. Not a hater, just an adult with an opinion. You go on to explain similarities, and how one can mitigate differences by turning those features off. I have chosen to stay with the DSLR and not pay for all those features I would choose to turn off. I can do most of the things that mirrorless cameras can do, even with my view camera ( which happens to take film). I have been taking photographs for a long time, even before 1 hour processing was available. I started digital quite early in 2006. So, My views are not based in hatred, but in experience.
@@andreak4280 I also most of the time shoot film 😉
Props on the music for your vids. Loving the jazz music. Always a pleasure watching your videos!
😊🙏🏻🖖🏻
Great analysis! You asked for us to share our picks for F-mount lenses that adapt well to Z bodies. I'm slowly unloading my extensive collection of F-mount lenses, but the one I will never give up is my Nikon AF-S Nikkor 200mm f/2G. On my Z6ii, but especially on my Z9, it makes me look like a far better photographer than I really am. Stunning image quality.
Or the sigma 24 1.4 💥👍
Which F lenses do not adapt well with Z mount?
First time watching one of your vids and instantly subscribed. There's such a pronounced acuity to your presentation style and tone, so refreshing.
Welcome!
You can always go back :-) I shoot F5 and D3 and love the images they produce, but then I'm not pixel peeking or making direct comparison to Mirrorless
I’ve just laid out on a nearly new D850 for nearly half the price of the Z7II. I wanted it to go with my D4 because, yes, the dynamic range and matrix metering is still a long way ahead of Canon. I wanted it specifically to build a mini-system around the Tamron 35-150 1:2.8-4. This is my absolutely most useful zoom lens of any (I know that’s a minority view) and it’s now only made as a new, faster version for Sony. Apropos the newer lens designs, they are generally sharper and better corrected. I like the best older Nikkors though. The nineties pro lenses were built to totally uncompromising mechanical standards and low distortion ED glass. And in the real world, the 10/10 sharpness is so unimportant. Except for at their widest apertures, most good heritage lenses were always as good as you will ever need. DSLRS are no use as hybrids but I like optical finders well enough and I like the great battery life you get without having to keep switching on and off, or waiting for the camera to wake. The best DSLRS just work and there’s no futz, so to speak. But, clearly, they are also passing into history as mirrorless is the now and the future.
Great input as always, Simon - thanks!
I still have two D800’s that I use. I encourage any new photographer starting out with no body or lenses to go the mirrorless route. I have a good assortment of Nikon F glass. I will be switching over to Nikon Z bodies for my next purchase of a Nikon body. I truly believe that mirrorless and Z mount glass are the future.
I feel like I’m watching Adam Savage combined with Jeff Goldblum talk about photography. Great vid
I am primarily a D850 shooter but also have a Z6ii for video.
I shoot a lot of motorsports and agree, pretty much, with your comments, the ovf on the 850 is better for what I shoot.
Personally, I would skip the z7's for the z9, just for the new continuous evf. Panning an object moving 150mph is difficult when the evf is presenting a slo-mo slide show.
I am anxious to see if the rumored z8 features the z9 evf. That will probably be the impetus for me to go f/t mirrorless. 🍻
Interesting. I shoot mainly motorsports and saw the Z7ii for sale at a hugely reduced price yesterday so I ordered it. Now doing a lot of research...too late!.... it seems itll be hopeless for my needs. is the auto focus really that bad?
I'm currently using a D810 and D750.
You do a great job (throughout all your videos) of defining the problem, laying out all the options, and recommending solutions; you provided a seamless integration of KEH into the narrative (and that is a good thing as I think quite highly of KEH).
I had a D850 and I still miss it although I am happy with the Z7II and expect to really like the Z9 I have ordered but not yet received. Along with missing the D850, two F-mount lenses I also miss are the 200mm F2 and the 105mm F1.4 that you referenced. Both were outstanding at producing gorgeous portraits. Matt Granger frequently sings the praises of these two lenses.
I love your channel and love your reviews. I own the D850 along with the full range of quality Nikkor and Sigma glass. I've been experimenting with a Fuji X-T4 for the last 6 months and I'm sold on the whole mirror less workflow. Shooting with my X-T4 is almost a cant miss affair, using the back screen as a viewfinder. I'm seriously considering selling my D850 and D750 to help finance the purchase of a Z7II with an F-Mount adapter of course. I'd love to get the Z8 but I cant justify the expense as of right now. Thanks again - you're my go to channel for honest reviews. Your review of the Sigma 18-50mm drove me to purchase it for my X-T4 and I couldn't be happier.
Glad to be of service! 😊🖖🏻
as a fellow new yawkah - much appreciated. @@3BMEP
I'll be hanging onto my 2x 850's and picking up another couple, before I'll go anywhere near mirrorless Z or whatever else they call them. 40 plus, years of professional photography has taught me a thing or two. People need to learn to discern real photographic tools from marketing drives/fancy numbers, presented in enticing ways. My advice to anybody seriously about to invest in a pro camera, is to hire out an D850/Z7, won't be long before you know which works for you. end.
Fwiw, a follow up to my post below. I've now had a Z9, 24-120mm Z lens and the FTZ II adaptor for just over 3 months. They are an awesome combo. I still use the TS/PC-E lenses almost exclusively on my 850 bodies. Z9 focus peaking doesn't really help. Maybe I'm just too familiar with an SLR finder. One unexpected surprise from the Z9, since I can now see in the dark, I can often manually focusing in the dark. Very cool. I'm still hanging onto my 850s though. The Z9 mostly stays in the bag. Cheers
The Nikon D810 has more dynamic range........
ABSOLUTELY! The dynamic range of the D850 in unparalleled, bcos it's consistent in all shots and different light settings.
I recently purchased a D850 after wanting one for years. I’ve grown accustomed to the larger/heavier form factor as I’ve been shooting a D700 the past twelve years. And I already have a nice collection of F mount glass for 8-15, 16-35, 24-70, 70-200, 200-500…
At sixty-seven I’m hesitant to invest in an entirely new camera system, although I have been watching an awful lot of Leica based videos…
I realize I could utilize an adapter for my existing glass on a Z6/7 but there’s that size factor as well, bigger has always been better, right 🤔
Dont sell your d700 its masterpeice.
@@PunjabiGymBeats concur with that .
Yes; but I wish there was a FTZ3... Because my 3 favorite portrait lenses are all screw drive..
Not buying all new Z lenses, not learning a new camera,. Not spending the money. D850 plenty good enough for events, portraits. Battery lasts forever
Unless your a pro or heavily into fast action there is no reason to go Z
These two cameras never appeared on my radar since I don't need a higher MP camera at the time they were released. Instead, I love my Z9 moment just as I did with the D3 back then. Lens wise, I have bought enough in my over four decade journey.
I went from the D700 to the D850 when it came out. I am personally on a budget so it fits me. I am invested in the f-mount. I do think the D850 provides me more than I think I'll ever need.... if I ever go pro, maybe I'll move to the mirrorless....It is attractive. good and honest review. thanks... Was that Ted Forbes I saw!?
Yep - Ted is a bud!
D700 was the best i have used, i dont know about D850 but colors from D700 were like film. How is your experience ?
I love my D700 but I need more res so I'm jumping to a used D850. I'm also on a budget so I have to wait to go mirrorless Chris.
@@PunjabiGymBeats I have been impressed with the iso on the 850, not really sure I notice the color difference. I still use the D700 for people and landscapes. The D850 is more for wildlife and birds. It really does well in cropping down for birds. I would go mirriorless, but I'm heavily invested in the F-mount.
Love the cameo from Ted!
You have an excellent radio voice sir.
What do you think the Z7-3 and Z8 will bring?
I loved the 850 and won't part with it. I did buy the Z 7ll and the adapter, I have to say I rarely take my 850 put now and use mostly just Z glass. After using the Z 7ll for about three weeks and then taking the 850 I was shocked to see the weight difference and well I did have a Carl Zeiss 135mm app sooner on it which itself is a very heavy lens. I have fairly big hands but I have to say the ergonomics of the Z 7ll works perfect for me
My workhoure D750 still churning out excellent photos since I got it 8 years ago. Glad that I picked that.
I 'get it' that subject matter is probably the number one determining factor, closely followed by convenience (especially if you want to shoot video), when it comes to choosing mirrorless or DSLR, but I think people have become too accustomed to hyper-realistic (almost cartoonish) sharpness/clarity, that almost borders on, "graphic art" more so than, "photography". I have yet to see the camera/lens combo that was more consistently pleasing to MY eye than that of a (15 year-old) Nikon D700 and a good F mount lens.
Mirrorless is obviously, "the next thing", but as someone who makes no money with photography, I'm not (re) buying all that glass over again. I am very happy with my D3s images.........and, I mainly shoot at night.
I would just throw that D5/D6 outperform the D850 in some areas that might be relevant for some users including low-light, and just speed of the AF and of course, longevity and reliability. I would love to collect a D6 at some point.
This video helped a lot. Had the D750 w/the trinity but had to sell everything because I went back to school. Been out of it for years and have no idea about mirrorless. Thanks for the info!!
I love the name as a philosophy major, though it might go over the heads of most viewers lol!!
Love the decisiveness of this clip and what you have accomplished with it. Very clear!
In my case, my kids have grown up. So I don’t shoot action any more. Mainly landscapes and travel. I kept my D810 and my 85mm F1.4 and sold the rest; because I am sentimental, love the tank-like build quality of the camera but hate its menus. I rarely use it now. I went the full way quality wise and went Fuji medium format. That’s another discussion….
Really enjoyed the 35 1.8S pics😊. Very under rated lens. Thanks Hugh.
My pleasure, Allen - thanks!
58mm f1.4G is one of my favourite lense ever made, it's just makes every image perfect. One of the reason I would not want to jump to mirrorless is that I cant use that lens without a adapter. Hopefully Nikon will make a lens similar to that lens.
Still, there is something about seeing reality through the viewfinder, and the beautiful solid thunk of the shutter and mirror when taking a picture. Mirrorless - like my original Nikon Coolpix 8800 (2005) and all of their amateur series, even my P1000. But technology must move on..... Still, I love my D850, even my older D810.
Just found your channel quite by chance. Great review, and Jazz. I'd love to know who's playing?
Well said, being a tier 2 hobbyist on a budget with Z6, D750 and D800 bodies, I have been seduced by the Nikon mirrorless attributes and new lenses. My current "crush" is a just acquired 24-120/4S for my upcoming Australia vacation. The just released Z17-28mm f/2.8 is very appealing. However, I have a barely used AF-S 17-35 mm 1:2.8D and FTZ adaptor in my camera bag I would like to have more megapixels but will be keeping my powder dry until the Z8 becomes available. To be blunt, I can't justify getting a Z7 II.
I have a D850,Z7ii and Z9. The best image quality among them belongs to the Z7ii, the D850 is an ergonomic wonderful camera only second to the Z9 but has a better image quality and dynamic range than the Z9 . The Z7ii autofocus can’t satisfy the pros .
What keeps the mirroless ahead of the dslr for me is the optics of the lens,inbody stabilization and af accuracy.
I no longer shoot the d850 for those reasons.
Thanks for the quality content. The best part is, that the recording of your voice is superb, very enjoyable! D850/D500 shooter, one of my fav. lenses is the 135mm F2 DC. I started with aps-c and as soon as the BSI of the d850 was announced I knew I would get it. The trinity, 200-500, 20G 35G 50G 85G f1,8 and 180 f2,8D and the fine Tokina 100 f2,8 Makro. Z9 is the next logical step. Stacked BSI.. same pixel count. great. Dont want or need more - especially since shooting panos is getting easier, and 200+ MP pics are not an issue ... S glass, some day 🙂 greetings
😊
Thank you! You just helped me decide to stay with my D850 and F mount lens a little longer. I may bite into the Z series, maybe, after the Z8 comes out.
I loved the d8xx series so much but switched to z last year. If you are not a very tech savy photographer, the z series is much better for guys like us
I couldn’t give a crap about any of this, yet still… as always, Hugh, you manage to make any topic utterly engaging.
When did John Stewart start doing Nikon reviews?
I recently got a S/H D850, but still use my D810A and D3. I just like the DSLR ergonomics. Also I have a dozen AF-D lenses that work beautifully with all of those cameras, and enough AF-S lenses to have no interest in upgrading everything. And adapters just feel like a fudge and another point of failure that doesn't interest me.
I think of my D850 and Z6ii collectively as a single camera to meet all my still photo needs, at least for now. I've been using the D850 for all my high resolution work since it was released. I recently purchased the Z6ii for portraits and events, and with your recommendation, I got that stunning Z 50mm f/1.8 S lens. I was looking at the Sony A7IV but ultimately decided that my stellar F-mount lenses (both native and 3rd-party) would fill out my Z6ii lens needs quite well, which it has. Certainly the Z 50 1.8 outperforms the Z6ii sensor, but the future is looking bright with the possibilities of a Z8 or a Z7iii and a few more choice Z lenses for those upcoming high res mirrorless sensors, including whatever Tamron and Sigma may bring to that table.
Sounds good to me, Larry!
As you own both the D850 and z6ii
Can u suggest which one will be better for weddings and portrait photography.
Though z6ii is full of ai features but people nearby suggested to me that z6ii is good for videos and doesn't perform better results for photography.
Should i invest in d850 ?
hold that thought... unless youre working in studio z7ii is a way to go. or even z7, same deal. for studio d850 is still holds its place.
and i will stick to d850 for as long as it is sold :) old school is the new school :)
What camera & lens are you using to record this video presentation? It also looks fantastic. Great video! How would you say these Nikon cameras compare to Sony A7s?
I had a D7500, and then sold that, now using Z6ii, recently I shot one photo with my friend's D7500!! Now I realize I like EVF more than OVF. And of course human eye auto focus for portrait is excellent. I shoot birds with Z6ii+200-500mm f/5.6, feel like I need tp crop a lot, specially for small birds' photos, in Z6ii it creates a very small unusable file. So I decided to get a used D850 for better cropping support and slightly better autofocus performance. Of course Z7ii will not give me any autofocus improvement over Z6ii I think. and it's expensive. But now seeing your video I have changed my mind. Not going back to DSLR again. Better wait for a Z9 than buying a D850.
I was tempted to buy one after a D810, but common sense kicked in. 2022 saw the parting of me and all my F - Mount gear. Z7ii was the way to go.
If your a amateur photographer and cost is a consideration you can save literally thousands of dollar’s with the D850, D810 or D750. There are so many F mount lenses by Nikon Tamron, Sigma etc etc etc the selection is so much fun to shop for and you know what NO ONE WILL KNOW WHAT CAMERA YOU USED. It doesn’t matter . Save your money buy a DSLR
Good analysis. I'm not in a hurry. I have my D850 with the lenses I need to do things requiring lots of pixels and fast autofocus. I have my Z5 with almost all the Z lenses that I need for more mundane tasks where 24MPix is enough.
Thanks for the nice Video, Hugh.
Now, I sold two Canon-DSLRs (6D and 70D) to obtain a R6 and adapt my EF-Lenses. Everything is better, so i would agree with you. But there is one reason for me to earnestly consider to buy another used Canon-DSLR (1DxII) - and this is ergonomics. I think, that it is no difference between Nikon and Canon in respect to the fact, that adapting the DSLR-Lenses to a Mirrorless Camera results in a Camera with a big junk of glass (for instance my EF 85/1.4L IS) with a small body.
In fact my R6 fits perfectly with my old Leica-Lenses, which ar tiny compared to the L-Glass. And the big EF-Lenses demand a Body, which is big enough in your hands to have a good feeling. And this is a DSLR.
Greetings from Frankfurt am Main - Andreas
For outdoor wedding photos with panoramic landscapes, which one is better? that has more details, and can even capture the milky way with the model
I lovevthe touch of jazz!
Ted never ages, does he? There must be a painting in his closet... Hope the Streets Workshop is a blast, wish I could make it!
they both have strengths and weaknesses, like everything it is about knowing what you want from your camera. I would love the lightness (relatively speaking) of a mirrorless setup but I don't have $9K to spend on a Z9 to gain the robustness that I already have with my D850, it has been around the world 4 times now to some of the most unfriendly camera locations and hasn't missed a beat, so I'll continue lugging it around for a few more years yet! It is nice to know that if/when I am ready to change there are some awesome options available.
I will be waiting for gen III and get my overly financially cautious hands on the lower price Z6II or 7II. :D I am upgrading from a 12 year old D7000, and want the upgrade to blow my mind, even though as an amateur, a Z6 or 7 would be alright with their affordable prices now. BUT I don't want alright for the money. Such a huge positive difference between the first and second gen.
Despite the bad-faith online bashing, I was rooting for the Z system since the first camera. It just seems like it's going to be a monolith of a system with a thoroughness and optical quality no other system has, can't wait for the future.
Also: fully articulating screen please Nikon, at least on one of the upcoming IBIS bodies, let just the Z5II or Z6III have it.
Only a few Nikon F mount lenses will work fully automatically, with the adapter on a Z camera.
The D850 is an excellent camera, for those of us with F mount lenses. And changing is something not affordable for many of us.
I was the biggest fan of the D850. I bought one with my own money. I shoot mostly landscape and wildlife. A weekend in the mountains with the Z7II and i was converted. The handling and sharpness of the Z glass just put it in a different world for me. So i switched. I get all the love for the D850, its an amazing camera with great lens options but for the best landscape shots, its a no brainer.
Focus system on the D850 is miles ahead of the Z7ii. I'll keep my D850 for now because for wildlife its so much better than Z7ii.
Firmware update? Mine works brilliantly. Animal detect has given me outstandingly sharp bird images.
Hi, I don't understand what you mean by 10 tenths performance for sports or wildlife. That's big for me, as I shoot equine photography and dance recitals. Also, which do you prefer between the d850 and the d5 or d6? So, which camera do you recommend between the d850 and the Z7ii for what I shoot? Really and truly, I have the Z7ii and I am not happy with shooting action or the low light capability. Thanks
Still not happy shooting action with the z7ii…??
How do you feel about using F mouse and the adapter? I’m leaning toward the 850 because using my 200 mm macro I like auto focus for moving bees etc.
if you care "Anything" about AF ten its the D850 all day long no questions asked. I had D500/D850 . I tired both the Z7 and Z6ii cameras and was very unimpressed. Each of these had AF subpar to my D500 and I was getting 1/3rd the number of keepers. If you want a camera that compares to the D850 and is in the same ballpark then you have to look at the Z9. Nikon "Did Not" get the Af right for sports, wildlife and action in its mirror-less line up until the Z9.
Always thorough and clear summary