Re: Z7 focus tracking. We're totally aware that subject tracking can be assigned to one of the fn buttons on the front of the camera, but (as we point out in the video) we find those buttons more difficult to press than the dual back-button configuration on the D850. Also, activating subject tracking on the Z7 is a two-step process even after you've assigned it to an fn button: first you start subject tracking, then position it over the subject you want to track, and finally you press OK or the shutter to actually activate it on a subject. On the D850, this can happen with a single button press, either AF-On or clicking the thumb stick. This isn't a huge deal deal when photographing a building, but it caused problems when shooting action and sports, where tenths of a second really count. Also, please recognize that I was trying to point out that the Z7 II's all-autofocus-points algorithm is DUMB and needs to be improved. It shouldn't be focusing on something at the edge of the frame. All AF points is what most casual photographers will use in travel scenarios like we showed. It required me to attempt to focus, recognize that it's focused on something dumb, and then press an awkwardly placed fn button on the front of the camera to bypass that dumbness. It's an annoying and unnecessary process. Especially since eye detection can only be activated when using all autofocus points mode, that mode needs to be more intelligent. It could be as simple as favoring objects in the center of the frame. It would help if Nikon would update the Z7 II firmware to allow the "Sub-selector center" option to be assigned to subject tracking; that's how we shoot with the D850. It would also help if subject tracking activated instantly rather than requiring the current two-stage process.
Nikon has been doing ok with firmware, hopefully they continue to update and make up some ground on Sony. More importantly, Chelsea, those boots are EPIC! 💜👢
Sony allows tracking from a plethora of different focus zone types without any additional input besides a shutter half-press or the AF-On button. Industry best practice should be minimal focus zone constraints or extra steps for eye-AF and subject tracking.
You're not quite right with the subject tracking, it's not a 2 stage process if you assign the function button. You push the function button to enable tracking, then place the box over the subject and then hit the BBF or hold the shutter half way and it tracks the subject. Want to track a different subject, release the AF-On, place the box over the new subject and then hold af-on again and you're tracking again. No need for the second ok if you use the function button. Also if you have one of the holy trinity Z lenses you can assign the function button on the lens itself to subject tracking which is really convenient and not so fiddly to reach as the fn buttons on the front of the body.
Thanks for the very full and professional reply Tony and Chelsea, 😉. I agree with your comments about the sub selector too. I have not heard others describe the Fn buttons as awkwardly placed...concerning that they are not comfortable for some hands. If they were comfortable then the option to choose your subject might be useful in some scenarios and be less of a frustration. I hope they correct this with firmware. Meantime I’ll keep using my D500 for wildlife!
+Pete Stewardson Yeah, I've used it and that's exactly what I'm describing. Step 1: Push the function button. Step 2: Place the box over the subject and hit BBF or shutter. If you use the 3D tracking on a D850 or D500 you'll see what I mean; it's quicker and easier bc you don't have to press the function button.
The D850 isn't at all outdated. This is new gear hype, making incredible gear seem out of step. I love so many things about my D810 and D850. Both produce perfect images, and both have awesome battery life. Spend your money on education. These fantastic cameras are not the limiting factor in getting awesome images, in fact, neither camera creates images. They just record what you envision, and that's where the magic is.
The Z lens tech is the real reason for upgrading. The likes of the 85mm 1.8 is clearly a new generation of image quality compared to the G equivalents.
@@ross8260 I'm not in disagreement with your opinion. I simply feel that, even trained photographers, won't find the improvements will make much difference in the fine quality of well crafted images customers will love. My G lenses, including Tamron versions, produce gorgeous, sharp files. If just starting out, I agree with going mirrorless. If one already has a good DSLR and lenses, all the other elements that go into stunning images far outweigh the cost of switching up. Just my perspective from 35 years of wedding and portrait work.
When Tony says mirrorless is not good for sports. It’s Nikon is not good for sports. Two years later Nikon still has the same cameras. While Sony and Canon have jumped ahead in AF technology. One would have to get a Z9 to shoot sports with a Nikon.
I have two D850's for my wedding business here in the UK. Having bought my first 35mm Nikon FA in 1985 I consider the D850 to be the best DSLR ever made. I won't be shelling out any money on the mirrorless system and it's lenses any time soon, as there is absolutely nothing that would make any real significant difference to a professional photographers technique or workflow at a wedding by using the Z7II. Fancy focusing systems, when you know what your doing are irrelevant. FPS above and beyond 5 or 6 are irrelevant at weddings too. I always thought that the next wonderous step in camera technology was to somehow completely get rid of the shutter. So really, whats the REAL big advantage of getting rid of the mirror? Not that much really. Not when you know you have the best DSLR ever made working along side you.
- live previewing exposure in EVF (especially when manual exposure, but also to check what the camera decides) - seeing in the dark with EVF (and fast glass) - eye focus (not always necessary, but very useful during wedding shoot) - much quieter shutter - optional totally silent shutter - smaller body - firmware updates give improvements and new features. - all Z lenses are significantly and visibly sharper and with less aberrations than the "old" F lenses - but good F glass will do perfectly fine. There are downsides of course. Battery consumption being one of them. And for hard core action photography, the AF won't keep up with tracking. The biggest reason why I still carry a D750 in my bag, besides the Z6 & Z6II as my main duo, is that Z cameras (and all mirrorless cameras) disable the AF assist light on any hotshoe flash you put on the camera. Sure, the camera body has a green LED light, but that draws all the attention to me instantly and kills any candid shot. So Nikon Z makes it impossible to autofocus in near dark or pitch black scenes (events & dancefloor scenes), for my style of shooting. So I grab the D750 & SB-910 for those moments. But I suggest you hire a Z7 II for a weekend and base your opinion on actual experience. D750 & D850 are Nikon's finest allround DSLR bodies.
Absolutely. Plus it's a Pro body. The other feels consumer and the battery simply lasts much less. Focusing birds is another plus too. There is no point in having 400 focusing points if you can't track well enough erratic moving subjects. 153 is already plenty. Being able to use all amazing lenses is great aswell. I have heard by the way that smaller bodies tend to heat up more when using video.
@@HoniSoitQuiMalPense indeed. And obviously, losing the mirror was the first step. Losing the shutter is the next. But to many, losing the mirror is more important one - it’s strange that these 2 are switched around by the OP (first time I seen that argument). Here’s an extra advantage for losing the mirror: no more ‘mirror slap’ and thus no more need for activating an extra delay in the camera settings.
One of the biggest things that keep me using my D850 is the optical viewfinder. As an Astrophotographer having that optical view is essential. It’s still one of the greatest drawbacks of mirrorless cameras.
I use the back screen and digitally zoom in to focus on the stars. I don't think it's paramount to have an optical viewfinder though. I've not found it limiting
@Marc Also own a D810 and it is a phenominal camera. Video is the main area that is lagging behind the mirrorless. That and depending on what you shoot size and weight.
@@kennethbradstedlarsen5194 That is the exact time when I stopped watched watching too. Now I remember why I stopped watching their videos years ago...
I switched from a D7200 to a Z 6II. Love the camera, especially I love full frame and low light performance. Love eye AF. Love Snapbridge. All my photos are transferring to my phone without me having to do anything. Completely transforms how I can use my camera as the imaging device and then my phone to send those images to where ever I want. I really don't need my camera to do that.
I hope Nikon keeps at it. I see absolutely no reason they can't regain popularity, they just have to keep making their cameras even better. If they make the decision to stop or slow down r&d just to save money, that's a bad idea. It's like selling all your properties in Monopoly just to make a few bucks to pay rent.
My wife has been a working photographer for years and she’s made a very good living with Nikon full frame (and cropped frame years ago) professional cameras. This was a great discussion piece and I loved the reviews. I’d love to try this out versus our d3s and d6 and see how the mirrorless camera performed in a real working environment.
It would be great to take weather problems into account. Overheating at +35C, freezing at -35C, operating with covered hands, operating while raining, etc. Everything mentioned is possible in my region.
Why don't you use H+ mode for animals or sport photography? You don't have any blackouts there. I'm not your opinion: If you use H+ and the correct autofocus mode (like subject tracking), the Z7 II can absolutely deal with the D850 at moving subjects. Maybe it's even better.
@@joe2snj most full frame cameras have rolling shutter when panning using the electronic shutter. I think only the Sony A9 series offers a significant improvement in that regard due to the sensor it is using.
@@Joseph-iu6ip Except they have a video on the original Z7 from when it came out and discussed the problems exactly as stated in that comment back then...
I replaced my Z6 with the brand new Z7-II, mainly cause I would focus on portraits. I think DSLRs are not (still) dead, but electronic viewfinder simplify composition a lot in almost every scenarios. Mirrorless main lack actually is a 3D tracking autofocus such in Nikon Pro-DSLRs. Z7-II autofocus is great in face/eye recognition, but I found it's not so accurate in other modes.
I think I’m even more confused. I have been doing extensive research between Nikon D850, Nikon Z7 II, and and Canon EOS R 5. Ideally, I want a camera for landscapes and wildlife. I do a lot of hiking with my dog. I’d prefer Nikon only because it is NPS preference. I am working towards a career in the National parks. Any advice on cameras would be greatly appreciated!
I love that you went to Mystic Seaport... I was a maritime painter back in the 80's and getting my work in that gallery was a high-point for me. I dropped my D4 and D4s bodies for two Z7II bodies, I figured it's time I commit to mirrorless, and the weight difference alone is so strange in the hand. I could carry these around all day and they take up so little space in the gear bag. The Z Lenses are absolutely excellent, I'm keeping my old F-mount lenses as backups. Thanks for all you do! Oh, one more thing I like about the Z7II, I don't like to wear my glasses and I can preview images through the viewfinder and verify quality. With the D bodies, I had to put my glasses on and look at the back of the camera to pixel peep.
I switched from D850 to the Z7 and haven't regretted for a second. Loved the D850 though and I don't shoot wildlife. Not sure if I agree on what you say about the subject tracking on Z7 even after reading all your comments.
@Gordon I have the Z7. Switched from D850 to that one. Later I added a Z6 which I've used for video and that I changed to a Z6ii a few weeks ago. So now I have a Z6ii for video and portraiture, and Z7 for landscape (often use this for portraiture too). If I miss one thing, it would be a tilt screen as canon has for my low angle shooting.
I have watched you two since before I bought my D7200 3 years ago as my entry into Wildlife and landscape photography. When I saw the price of the Z9, I was all in to work a seasonal job as a retired full-time RV’er. Two months ago I discovered the price drop for the D850. Now, I will work for the first time in 12 years to purchase 2-3 lenses to go with a new D850 I'll gift myself for Christmas. Thank you so much for the comparison videos.🎉😊❤
The battery life issue isn't just worth a single point... Depending on settings, the D850 can take 8-10 times the number of shots on a single battery as the Z7ii. Ironically, the number of batteries you'd have to carry with a Z7 to equal the same number of shots as the D850 would weigh twice as much as the much touted weight difference between the two.
Have you ever tried one of the Z cameras by yourself? I don't know what you're doing, but I get about 60% of the shots out of my Z6 compared to my D850.. ;-)
They could definitely be improved, but the D850 doesn't have on-sensor phase detection and Nikon likely won't release any firmware updates for their DSLRs, aside from perhaps bug fixes.
Until Nikon can make a mirrorless that can at least match the D850, for stills, in sports/wildlife arena. With a much better battery life. I'm staying DSLR. They are getting closer just not there yet.
@11:03 So the D850 can output raw video to an external recorder...it's been used in professional broadcast of even TV series...and it has 4k at 30/25/24 fps....yes not 60 but you don't use a D850 for sports video. Also pros don't use AF for video, they focus pull or use pre-set focus distances.
Thanks for the comparison T & C. My Z7ii, a 14-30 f/4, a 24-70 f/2.8 and a vertical grip on pre-order/backorder. Ready to sell my D810 and all F lenses to KEH!
You should do a side by side comparison with a natural light FASHION shoot using the Nikon D810 and the Nikon Z7 - Id like to see if there is a difference in the photos at all. Compare each photo shot side by side. Would love to see this type of video
I heard it as well and considered a replay but said, "nah, I know what I heard there." What's more intriguing is the choice to not edit out what was a voiceover to begin with.
I have a D850. I just use manual focus for videos and photos. I can decide what I want to focus on, what I want to be blurred, depth, etc. l’m not a pro, and just a beginner, but find manually focusing so easy and creative. I grew up before AF lenses, so even as a kid I was focusing myself. So all this talk about focusing issues to me, is very solvable.
Is there any way to set Picture Control so the Images look more like what the D200 looked like? The Images from it were much more Pleasing Colourwise, Contrast and Brightness wise, than the D850
The D200 was a CCD sensor and that is what makes the output so much different from the newer CMOS sensors. I think the CMOS sensors were cheaper to manufacture. I shot a lot of work with the D200 and really miss that great output. It was sharper pixel per pixel as well.
@@EdwardMartinsPhotography I am throwing my D850 into the Dumpster. It is the worst Nikon DSLR I have ever owned. It has a focus success rate of about 0%, much poorer than the D810, and that is using the latest and supposedly greatest 70 - 200 f2.8. I will go back to the 200, as it does a much better job colour and contrast.
My experience still remains that the mirrorless cameras still don't focus properly at all. Reminds me of the issues with the non-Nikon lenses not hitting the focus targets properly.
Personally, I'll still go with the D850, it really feels like a good camera in your hand, not like a toy as all mirrorless cameras are... 15:12 - are these DUAL Expeed 6 processors lagging?... maybe in the Z8 they will put 4 CPUs so you'll get more than just 3fps with each battery charge :))
Hi, as per my observation, image quality of D810 is better than Z7 II. I used 70-200 f2.8 lens on both the bodies. F mount lens adapted on to Z mount with adapter. I strongly believe there is an image quality difference.
Interesting comparison… Several years ago I’d purchased a Fujifilm mirrorless camera, sold it at a loss due to the fact that j have fairly large hands and was constantly fumbling with buttons, pushing things I then had to figure out how to correct. Oh and you must understand I come from a D700 that I still own and it’s still doing what it’s supposed to do, take still shots… Yes I appreciate the smaller form factor of the Z series, but I’m still feeling like the body is to small for me. Perhaps he rumored Z9 will solve a lot of the “problems” inherent in current Z products.
It would be so cool if Nikon could put the advantages of the Z7 II intro a DSLR. Like IBIS, Good live view autofocus, silent shutter, maybe hybrid viewfinder where you can switch between EVF and OVF (similar to the Fujifilm X-Pro series). You probably won't be able to use Z-mount lenses, but most stuff would be able to integrate i suppose.
It depends on usecase at the end of the day. I have D810 and I only use it for portrait and family pictures. My purpose is to get the great pics of my family so I will be continue using my D810 until it dies
How much of that EVF lag is actually the IBIS? I found on my Lumix G9 that for BIF the IBIS *has* to be off. I used a red dot sight on the hotshoe, and with IBIS on I found at 400mm the picture could lag the boresight axis by close to half a frame. With IBIS on as you quickly pan the sensor doesn't until it hits the limits.
Tony, please assign subject tracking to one of the fn buttons. By doing so, you can leave the camera in auto area af most of the time an have subject tracking with the press of a single button. Try it out if you have time!
I've tried it! I do mention it in the video. I just find the fn buttons to be difficult to reach (especially compared with the setup on the D850) and it requires an extra button press compared to the D850.
I don't get this flip screen obsession, i have 3 cameras, one with flip screen, one with tilt screen and one with fixed screnn, every time i have to move my screen i use the camera with tilt, flip screen using external mic or hdmi output or monitoring audio is a mess. Only people that use flip screen on professional camera are youtubers... Good tilt screen > every flip screen
@@sloppy-1-1 tbf, I can see a benefit for all 3 types. Obviously people who film themselves will want a flip screen, I get that. I just don't believe those people are as common as you'd be led to believe from RUclips camera reviewers, because guess what, most of those people film themselves at least some of the time. For something like street photography, a tilt screen can be helpful in being more inconspicuous, and also a tilt screen is the best option for shooting high or low. And then as you say, you could just have a fixed screen if you need it to be super durable and also if you're pretty much exclusively shooting the viewfinder, as sports photographers generally do.
They won’t make a D880 they have come out and said they are focusing fully on mirrorless and so they should. The lenses are so much better. They just have to fix the autofocus and they will will be class leaders again.
@@tallaganda83 There's a lot more to fix than just the af. Ergonomically the Z bodies are way worse than their DSLRs. They're behind the competition in af, shooting speed, evf quality, battery life, customizabilty, lens selection, WiFi connectivity ... honestly, it's virtually every metric. They made the fantastic D850, then rested on their laurels. It's frustrating.
@@youknowwho9247 by behind the competition you mean not class leader and let’s face it no brand is on top in all of these categories. AF is superior to Fuji and Panasonic, canon and Sony are top but differences aren’t night and day. Shooting speed R5/6 is nice until your battery drops to 70% or you don’t have the right lens. Z6ii still has highest frame rate using mech shutter. Evf yeah I miss the 120fps of R6 but quality I find better than Sony for sure. Battery life nobody touches Sony, rest are comparable. Lens selection hmm interesting considering you can adapt any Sony lens and canon Ef, native yeah but what do you expect from a new mount - nothing touches the Z trinity. Not being able to adapt old screw drive lens is not important to me. Customizability ehh Sony is best but you have to trade ergonomics.
There was a back-and-forth that the D850 didn't change the DoF in the OVF when Chelsea changed aperture. One question: Does the D850 *not* have a 'preview' button?
The D850 is my dream camera. Waiting for the price to come down a bit more. I shot Nikon since I started but recently shifted over to Fuji and sold all my Nikon gear. I'd love for Nikon to make a full mirrorless successor to the D850 but so far I've been fair unimpressed with their offerings, very average (in my opinion and compared to their main competitors). Hoping they still have something in the tank to blow everyone away again, just like they did with the D850.
Hello when you used the Peter Filter in the day light on your Camera if i can asked do you have the 1-5 stop or the 6-9 on your camera i want to buy one, so i was wondering which one you used for the sun
Nice overview and well presented facts. It proves that both systems have pros and cons right now. I am still hanging onto my Nikon D7500 for wildlife photography but I want to eventually switch to a mirrorless system because I am a hybrid photo/video shooter and the LiveView AF is terrible on Nikon DSLR's (as proved by Chelsea using the D850). The EVF lag is a real issue with mirrorless for wildlife shooting too. Hopefully these issues will be resolved soon.
Although I have mostly moved to mirrorless, I think there is still a lot to be said for the solidly built, fast, and supremely usable SLR workhorses. Don’t forget those teething years of mirrorless where every downside was characterized as “almost” as good (e.g., “like looking through an optical viewfinder,” or a few-hundred shot battery life as “not terrible”). The convoluted AF settings are one example of mirrorless cameras getting in the way of photographing. For this reason, I’ve made another move, not away from mirrorless but toward cameras with more tactile and better laid out buttons and other controls, less menu clutter, and therefor more adept at getting out of my way. I generally turn photo review completely off, including on rangefinder cameras with no EVF. Light hasn’t changed, the exposure triangle has not changed, and solid, fast, and reliable camera bodies are just as valid today as ever. One last point: every photo and video frame is of a past moment and, regardless of refresh rate and lack of blackout, every EVF is by definition showing you only what has already occurred. I suspect seasoned sports and wildlife photographers will always have an edge in terms of reaction time using optical finders over EVFs. The latter are getting increasingly great results but that is due to advances in predictive and intelligent autofocus systems rather than photographers’ skill. The camera processors and firmware are essentially using a high tech spray and pray approach reliant on the video (past) image of moving subjects to estimate the upcoming position. It’s silicon in place of hand-eye coordination and earned knowledge of subject behavior.
Agreed, mirrorless has come a long way. But my cameras get beaten to hell, optical viewfinder is still king. AF is still better in a DSLR. The day is coming when mirrorless will do everything, withstand tough conditions and have a viewfinder that matches optical. But it will likely require breakthrough battery tech that does not yet exist.
When Nikon puts out the successor to D850 in DSLR as it is rumored, such as a D880 with Z video tech inside (like they did for the D750/D780), I believe Chelsea might like trying that one out. Would she sell her D850 and get a D880 body? There is something to be said for having a lot of external button controls to speed up things.
Chelsea mentioned "Blackouts" makes it hard to shoot wildlife, also mentioned switching to R5. Do you have blackouts also on the R5? Is the R5 ok for wildlife and sport?
I have an R6 which has same focus system and frame rate. If you use the fast mechanical shutter at 12 fps there’s no issue tracking birds in flight. Even less so 20 FPS electronic. Blackout just isn’t noticeable, to me at least.
I'll be trying one out this week. If only if was in a D5xxx shell. I don't need the tack sharp glass. I need a better all-rounder and the user experience I had with my pro DSLR's for over 15 years.
Owned a D850 and own z7 now.. That old style casio watch display shows specs in every condition, new oled display can't in bright light. It's barely visible when you cover it with a palm.. It just drives me crazy
Great video I appreciate showing all the shortcomings & advantages to Mirrorless x DSLR & comparative to the best Nikon has to offers. Z7 II might not have everything, it’s enough to carry me a years tho. Hope I win, happy New Years Northrup clan 🙏🏾
I’ve been shooting Nikon for 16 years not a professional. I fine the most compelling reason to go with the Z mirrorless cameras is the mount and the new line of lenses. The mount in my opinion is game changer. Any thoughts.
I own a D850 and wouldn’t change it for any mirror less camera at this time! Watch what happens when your mirrorless camera slams into the cement on a tripod. 😟 My d850 did that and survived to shoot another day😃 and still working strong
If you're using all focusing points and its missing your intended subject you just press the ok button on the back and the 3d tracking box appears in the middle. I basically use it as an easy temp single point AF mode
@@endowpictures22 No, I do this for a living, Nikon NPS requires at least two bodies and two lenses to join, I joined in 1987, two years after I graduated from College. The main reason I haven't switched to mirrorless in the Studio is that I don't think I will be able to use the PC-E lens effectively with the EVF, I haven't tried it yet. I used to focus a Large Format Digital Camera on a 20" Computer Screen, that worked, but my old eyes might not be able to do it on an EVF.
What are you talking about, the Z7 did have eye auto focus after the firm ware updates and the function buttons are ideally placed to use while shooting . The focus modes are simple to change with the function buttons. About time you watched some other channels to find out how to use the auto ficus as it does work differently to the DSLR’s but in the right hands can be equally as good, even kingfishers in flight.
Thank you for this, I have the D850 and D810. I only shoot portraits and no video as I am a maternity photographer in studio and on location with OCF. I need to decide what I need. I would love the EVF and focusing points. I have the 105mm 1.4 and 24-70mm 28 and 35MM .14 and 85mm 1.8. all F mount glass. Should I get the Z7II or wait until a D850 replacement. Thanks in advance for all that reply. So SO CONFUSED.
I think a Z7 II could speed your workflow up a bit but probably wouldn't completely change your life. If you were to upgrade to the new 24-70S lens, that would actually improve image quality quite a bit. Either way enjoy it!
Start-up time? How long does it take the Z7II to activate from rest? Be able to see the scene and take a pic? The D850? One can see the scene all the time and shoot almost instantly.
I measured it on a Z6. It takes around 0.6 seconds to wake up. So basically when you flick the power switch while lifting the camera to your eye it is operational by the time it gets there
@@lsaideOK I barely let my camera go to sleep because it comes up so quickly. But I just ran a short test. On average between five tries it took something in between 0.7 and 0.8 seconds to wake up. But I just measured that by hand and didn’t correct for my reaction time. So it’s probably a bit less
With my Z7, that just replaced my d810, I have no focusing issues. I use the subject tracking most of the time (assigning that function to one of the two front buttons I can easily reach... I don’t understand why some people can’t), and only sometimes I put all the AF points on (for portraits). With an hour of practice, I was recomposing faster than with my DSLR
One problem I have with Nikon pro bodies is that they have too many buttons. I do not need immediate access to every setting via a button. I have to disable some of them so that I do not accidentally make changes. I do not mind a convenient shortcut menu screen to make many changes. If I have to disable buttons, then what is the point in having them?
I’ve been a Nikon user since 1983 and I feel like I’ve always been one of the FEW! I love my olympus mirror less but I miss my Nikon “feel”. Always some sacrifices when it comes to what you want to shoot. I’m so glad Nikon has developed their gear. As I’ve aged I’ve seen myself attracted to more lightweight gear so I can backpack on longer trips so I’m not sure I’ll ever return to heavy full crop gear. When backpacking I can only pick one camera so for now it must be the olympus Em1X ... loved loved loved your comparison video for an update on Nikon’s progress. One thing will never ever change-I love gear so I can always be persuaded to get newer better gear - I miss my Nikon FX bodies and only have the D750 for night work
thanks! I liked the review. maybe Z7iii? Still on the Nikon D810 with the best glass possible and it's still great for fine art portraits and real estate photography. Want to upgrade but wait until the next when the software and tracking, iso for video is better again, thanks.
Some point the woman mention isn't really advantage for example continuously checking the image after click is takes the bigger battery capacity away and the 90deg screen flip isn't a big deal just lean a bit forward with the 45deg unless couple of inches are of height what matters
I own a D4 and am looking for a second body. I can't decide between the D850 or a Z model. What do you think. I do weddings and portraits but finding myself wanting better cideo
I have two D810 and they have been great over the years for weddings and portraits. I have debated about going to Sony but most likely get one of these and also a Z9. People say those Z9 are too heavy and bulky but I have never used my D810's without a grip so I guess I'm really used to it.
I love you guys. What a cool contrast. You guys are the Siskel and Ebert of the Camera world. I realise sometimes you both agree and one is playing the devils advocate, and that's cool too. But I love to watch videos like this where you guys entertain and compete and give the viewer a fuller understanding of two separate viewpoints, both valid, but both illuminating and edifying for the consumer. Bravo. Databyter
Does image quality of Chelseas older F-lenses improve when you put them on the Z-Mount with the adapter? Or are they the same in quality as on the D-850?
Re: Z7 focus tracking. We're totally aware that subject tracking can be assigned to one of the fn buttons on the front of the camera, but (as we point out in the video) we find those buttons more difficult to press than the dual back-button configuration on the D850.
Also, activating subject tracking on the Z7 is a two-step process even after you've assigned it to an fn button: first you start subject tracking, then position it over the subject you want to track, and finally you press OK or the shutter to actually activate it on a subject.
On the D850, this can happen with a single button press, either AF-On or clicking the thumb stick. This isn't a huge deal deal when photographing a building, but it caused problems when shooting action and sports, where tenths of a second really count.
Also, please recognize that I was trying to point out that the Z7 II's all-autofocus-points algorithm is DUMB and needs to be improved. It shouldn't be focusing on something at the edge of the frame. All AF points is what most casual photographers will use in travel scenarios like we showed. It required me to attempt to focus, recognize that it's focused on something dumb, and then press an awkwardly placed fn button on the front of the camera to bypass that dumbness. It's an annoying and unnecessary process. Especially since eye detection can only be activated when using all autofocus points mode, that mode needs to be more intelligent. It could be as simple as favoring objects in the center of the frame.
It would help if Nikon would update the Z7 II firmware to allow the "Sub-selector center" option to be assigned to subject tracking; that's how we shoot with the D850. It would also help if subject tracking activated instantly rather than requiring the current two-stage process.
Nikon has been doing ok with firmware, hopefully they continue to update and make up some ground on Sony.
More importantly, Chelsea, those boots are EPIC! 💜👢
Sony allows tracking from a plethora of different focus zone types without any additional input besides a shutter half-press or the AF-On button. Industry best practice should be minimal focus zone constraints or extra steps for eye-AF and subject tracking.
You're not quite right with the subject tracking, it's not a 2 stage process if you assign the function button. You push the function button to enable tracking, then place the box over the subject and then hit the BBF or hold the shutter half way and it tracks the subject. Want to track a different subject, release the AF-On, place the box over the new subject and then hold af-on again and you're tracking again. No need for the second ok if you use the function button. Also if you have one of the holy trinity Z lenses you can assign the function button on the lens itself to subject tracking which is really convenient and not so fiddly to reach as the fn buttons on the front of the body.
Thanks for the very full and professional reply Tony and Chelsea, 😉. I agree with your comments about the sub selector too. I have not heard others describe the Fn buttons as awkwardly placed...concerning that they are not comfortable for some hands. If they were comfortable then the option to choose your subject might be useful in some scenarios and be less of a frustration. I hope they correct this with firmware. Meantime I’ll keep using my D500 for wildlife!
+Pete Stewardson Yeah, I've used it and that's exactly what I'm describing. Step 1: Push the function button. Step 2: Place the box over the subject and hit BBF or shutter. If you use the 3D tracking on a D850 or D500 you'll see what I mean; it's quicker and easier bc you don't have to press the function button.
The D850 isn't at all outdated. This is new gear hype, making incredible gear seem out of step. I love so many things about my D810 and D850. Both produce perfect images, and both have awesome battery life. Spend your money on education. These fantastic cameras are not the limiting factor in getting awesome images, in fact, neither camera creates images. They just record what you envision, and that's where the magic is.
D700 is still a great camera as well!! 😁
@@andriykovach2736 I still can't part ways with my 3Ds. Love the colours and kind of texture in the photos I get.
The Z lens tech is the real reason for upgrading. The likes of the 85mm 1.8 is clearly a new generation of image quality compared to the G equivalents.
@@ross8260 I'm not in disagreement with your opinion. I simply feel that, even trained photographers, won't find the improvements will make much difference in the fine quality of well crafted images customers will love. My G lenses, including Tamron versions, produce gorgeous, sharp files. If just starting out, I agree with going mirrorless. If one already has a good DSLR and lenses, all the other elements that go into stunning images far outweigh the cost of switching up. Just my perspective from 35 years of wedding and portrait work.
When Tony says mirrorless is not good for sports. It’s Nikon is not good for sports. Two years later Nikon still has the same cameras. While Sony and Canon have jumped ahead in AF technology. One would have to get a Z9 to shoot sports with a Nikon.
I have two D850's for my wedding business here in the UK. Having bought my first 35mm Nikon FA in 1985 I consider the D850 to be the best DSLR ever made. I won't be shelling out any money on the mirrorless system and it's lenses any time soon, as there is absolutely nothing that would make any real significant difference to a professional photographers technique or workflow at a wedding by using the Z7II. Fancy focusing systems, when you know what your doing are irrelevant. FPS above and beyond 5 or 6 are irrelevant at weddings too.
I always thought that the next wonderous step in camera technology was to somehow completely get rid of the shutter. So really, whats the REAL big advantage of getting rid of the mirror? Not that much really. Not when you know you have the best DSLR ever made working along side you.
The EVF blackout at high frame rates is awesome too. Missed shots galor. Love that feature with mirrorless too.
- live previewing exposure in EVF (especially when manual exposure, but also to check what the camera decides)
- seeing in the dark with EVF (and fast glass)
- eye focus (not always necessary, but very useful during wedding shoot)
- much quieter shutter
- optional totally silent shutter
- smaller body
- firmware updates give improvements and new features.
- all Z lenses are significantly and visibly sharper and with less aberrations than the "old" F lenses - but good F glass will do perfectly fine.
There are downsides of course. Battery consumption being one of them. And for hard core action photography, the AF won't keep up with tracking. The biggest reason why I still carry a D750 in my bag, besides the Z6 & Z6II as my main duo, is that Z cameras (and all mirrorless cameras) disable the AF assist light on any hotshoe flash you put on the camera. Sure, the camera body has a green LED light, but that draws all the attention to me instantly and kills any candid shot. So Nikon Z makes it impossible to autofocus in near dark or pitch black scenes (events & dancefloor scenes), for my style of shooting. So I grab the D750 & SB-910 for those moments.
But I suggest you hire a Z7 II for a weekend and base your opinion on actual experience. D750 & D850 are Nikon's finest allround DSLR bodies.
Absolutely. Plus it's a Pro body. The other feels consumer and the battery simply lasts much less. Focusing birds is another plus too. There is no point in having 400 focusing points if you can't track well enough erratic moving subjects. 153 is already plenty. Being able to use all amazing lenses is great aswell. I have heard by the way that smaller bodies tend to heat up more when using video.
...and here comes the Z9 ...shutterless, no evf blackout and amazing autofocus, great filming capabilities...and I guess that changes the equation ;)
@@HoniSoitQuiMalPense indeed. And obviously, losing the mirror was the first step. Losing the shutter is the next.
But to many, losing the mirror is more important one - it’s strange that these 2 are switched around by the OP (first time I seen that argument).
Here’s an extra advantage for losing the mirror: no more ‘mirror slap’ and thus no more need for activating an extra delay in the camera settings.
One of the biggest things that keep me using my D850 is the optical viewfinder. As an Astrophotographer having that optical view is essential. It’s still one of the greatest drawbacks of mirrorless cameras.
I use the back screen and digitally zoom in to focus on the stars. I don't think it's paramount to have an optical viewfinder though. I've not found it limiting
Why is the mirrorless viewfinder a drawback.??
Had to listen to 9:19 four times to confirm I heard what I heard
Yep 😂 🐔
They won't be on RUclips very long with talk like that!
I thought I had to be hearing things, at first
Freudian slip ???
Sheesh. Can you guys travel or read a book or something? I mean even googling “le coq” + clock would give you some basic info.
I’m riding my D500 into the ground
I’m taking my D810 to my grave 😂
LMAo oh man top comment
Same here lol
Hard to beat a D500 for action unless you go to a D5 or D6
@Marc Also own a D810 and it is a phenominal camera. Video is the main area that is lagging behind the mirrorless. That and depending on what you shoot size and weight.
To change the focus mode you hold the fn2 button on the front by the grip and roll the aperture wheel. So simple, you can do it with one hand.
Yeah, it really is that simple. It's weird how many of these youtubers review cameras they haven't tested thoroughly.
We discuss this and show it. The point is it's easier on the D850.
FYI I added a pinned comment with detailed information.
@@kennethbradstedlarsen5194 That is the exact time when I stopped watched watching too. Now I remember why I stopped watching their videos years ago...
I'll hang onto my D850 for a while longer. I'm sure in the years to come I'll consider their mirrorless system more seriously. Great video!
Z9
@@NallePu83 the Z9 is a different price point.
do u still own your D850????
I switched from a D7200 to a Z 6II. Love the camera, especially I love full frame and low light performance. Love eye AF. Love Snapbridge. All my photos are transferring to my phone without me having to do anything. Completely transforms how I can use my camera as the imaging device and then my phone to send those images to where ever I want. I really don't need my camera to do that.
I hope Nikon keeps at it. I see absolutely no reason they can't regain popularity, they just have to keep making their cameras even better. If they make the decision to stop or slow down r&d just to save money, that's a bad idea. It's like selling all your properties in Monopoly just to make a few bucks to pay rent.
me same story D7200 to Z6II
Same here D7100 to Z6II. And I love it.
How are yall liking the z6 ii a year later? I’m considering the change from d7000
@@jlpitts93 Still awesome, not looking back at APS-C at all. And Nikon all the way.
My wife has been a working photographer for years and she’s made a very good living with Nikon full frame (and cropped frame years ago) professional cameras. This was a great discussion piece and I loved the reviews. I’d love to try this out versus our d3s and d6 and see how the mirrorless camera performed in a real working environment.
It would be great to take weather problems into account. Overheating at +35C, freezing at -35C, operating with covered hands, operating while raining, etc. Everything mentioned is possible in my region.
It was -25°C yesterday while I was photographing nutcrackers and the d850 worked perfectly!
why does my keh commercial keep getting interrupted?
I still like my D810. I see no reason to change.
Me too. Greetings from Germany!
@@rogerwilliamson7161 greetings
Exactly. When you're a photographer. When you are a YT influencer, you need to praise every new model. Even though it's shit: D
Why don't you use H+ mode for animals or sport photography? You don't have any blackouts there. I'm not your opinion: If you use H+ and the correct autofocus mode (like subject tracking), the Z7 II can absolutely deal with the D850 at moving subjects. Maybe it's even better.
That rolling shutter when panning is a crime against humanity.
Why do we have rolling shutter in 2021? Because Nukon
@Strawberry Kiys The rolling shutter was when Tony was taking stills not video. That’s caused by having a slow readout speed of the sensor.
Which camera is the best against rolling shutter?
@@alperenakdemir Sony A9 series for FF
@@joe2snj most full frame cameras have rolling shutter when panning using the electronic shutter.
I think only the Sony A9 series offers a significant improvement in that regard due to the sensor it is using.
How was this filmed? The quality is outstanding! Stunning scenery too.
Sony a7S III by Frank Dinardi
Yes I noticed how crisp & clear the filming was too.
@@TonyAndChelsea looks fantastic. Which lens did you use?
Frank Dinardi!!
@@B-kl8vj we filmed it in the 24-70 2.8 g master. Used a ronin S for at the moving shots in Essex.
You are wrong. The Z7 has subject tracking. I cannot believe he says it doesn’t.
I say that it does and discuss the problems with how it is implemented. Read the pinned comment.
@@TonyAndChelsea you must have leaned that after reading some comments, because your video made it clear you didn’t know how to turn it or nor use it.
@@Joseph-iu6ip Except they have a video on the original Z7 from when it came out and discussed the problems exactly as stated in that comment back then...
@@youknowwho9247 then why was he play acting like you need to poke at the screen to focus?
I replaced my Z6 with the brand new Z7-II, mainly cause I would focus on portraits. I think DSLRs are not (still) dead, but electronic viewfinder simplify composition a lot in almost every scenarios. Mirrorless main lack actually is a 3D tracking autofocus such in Nikon Pro-DSLRs. Z7-II autofocus is great in face/eye recognition, but I found it's not so accurate in other modes.
Thumbs up button mashed on the THICC graphic.
Basically😂😂😂I almost hit subscribe again on that.
I think I’m even more confused. I have been doing extensive research between Nikon D850, Nikon Z7 II, and and Canon EOS R 5. Ideally, I want a camera for landscapes and wildlife. I do a lot of hiking with my dog. I’d prefer Nikon only because it is NPS preference. I am working towards a career in the National parks. Any advice on cameras would be greatly appreciated!
I love that you went to Mystic Seaport... I was a maritime painter back in the 80's and getting my work in that gallery was a high-point for me. I dropped my D4 and D4s bodies for two Z7II bodies, I figured it's time I commit to mirrorless, and the weight difference alone is so strange in the hand. I could carry these around all day and they take up so little space in the gear bag. The Z Lenses are absolutely excellent, I'm keeping my old F-mount lenses as backups. Thanks for all you do! Oh, one more thing I like about the Z7II, I don't like to wear my glasses and I can preview images through the viewfinder and verify quality. With the D bodies, I had to put my glasses on and look at the back of the camera to pixel peep.
I switched from D850 to the Z7 and haven't regretted for a second. Loved the D850 though and I don't shoot wildlife. Not sure if I agree on what you say about the subject tracking on Z7 even after reading all your comments.
@Gordon I have the Z7. Switched from D850 to that one. Later I added a Z6 which I've used for video and that I changed to a Z6ii a few weeks ago. So now I have a Z6ii for video and portraiture, and Z7 for landscape (often use this for portraiture too). If I miss one thing, it would be a tilt screen as canon has for my low angle shooting.
D780 is a perfect mix of DSLR & Mirrorless and it gives you really long battery life, unlike mirrorless.
I have watched you two since before I bought my D7200 3 years ago as my entry into Wildlife and landscape photography.
When I saw the price of the Z9, I was all in to work a seasonal job as a retired full-time RV’er.
Two months ago I discovered the price drop for the D850.
Now, I will work for the first time in 12 years to purchase 2-3 lenses to go with a new D850 I'll gift myself for Christmas.
Thank you so much for the comparison videos.🎉😊❤
I wish they would not put Video on DSLRs, it would drop the Price a bit, and if I want to do Video, I could buy a Video Recorder
The battery life issue isn't just worth a single point... Depending on settings, the D850 can take 8-10 times the number of shots on a single battery as the Z7ii. Ironically, the number of batteries you'd have to carry with a Z7 to equal the same number of shots as the D850 would weigh twice as much as the much touted weight difference between the two.
Have you ever tried one of the Z cameras by yourself? I don't know what you're doing, but I get about 60% of the shots out of my Z6 compared to my D850.. ;-)
Can the performance issues using the back screen be made better with software updates on the DSLR?
They could definitely be improved, but the D850 doesn't have on-sensor phase detection and Nikon likely won't release any firmware updates for their DSLRs, aside from perhaps bug fixes.
Until Nikon can make a mirrorless that can at least match the D850, for stills, in sports/wildlife arena. With a much better battery life. I'm staying DSLR.
They are getting closer just not there yet.
@11:03 So the D850 can output raw video to an external recorder...it's been used in professional broadcast of even TV series...and it has 4k at 30/25/24 fps....yes not 60 but you don't use a D850 for sports video. Also pros don't use AF for video, they focus pull or use pre-set focus distances.
Thanks for the comparison T & C. My Z7ii, a 14-30 f/4, a 24-70 f/2.8 and a vertical grip on pre-order/backorder. Ready to sell my D810 and all F lenses to KEH!
You should do a side by side comparison with a natural light FASHION shoot using the Nikon D810 and the Nikon Z7 - Id like to see if there is a difference in the photos at all. Compare each photo shot side by side. Would love to see this type of video
Uhhh... guys... at 9:20 - Chelsea, ya kiiiiiinda dropped the “L” in “Tony comes from behind with just 9 minutes on the clock” 😅😂🤣😅😅😅
I also noticed that! I had to do a triple-take just because I couldn’t tell if I really heard that!
I heard it as well and considered a replay but said, "nah, I know what I heard there."
What's more intriguing is the choice to not edit out what was a voiceover to begin with.
Winky face ;)
Lol interesting . 🍰 cake sound much better than clock 🕙 mispronouncing.
My ear picked that up, being a fan of bloopers and pranks.
I have a D850. I just use manual focus for videos and photos. I can decide what I want to focus on, what I want to be blurred, depth, etc. l’m not a pro, and just a beginner, but find manually focusing so easy and creative. I grew up before AF lenses, so even as a kid I was focusing myself. So all this talk about focusing issues to me, is very solvable.
7:10 Hey! DSLRs have a DoF preview button! It's configured standard on one of the function buttons at te front...
Wait, why is there visible grass, sidewalks and roads in this video? I thought it was winter! Connecticut is slacking on the snow this year.
We don't really get much snow near the shoreline, and when it does snow, it usually melts the next day.
@@TonyAndChelsea Well that just sounds practically tropical from where I'm sitting in Canada 😂
Without a doubt the best informative, educational, inspirational and entertaining camera and photography couple on RUclips. Congratulations 😃
Is there any way to set Picture Control so the Images look more like what the D200 looked like? The Images from it were much more Pleasing Colourwise, Contrast and Brightness wise, than the D850
The D200 was a CCD sensor and that is what makes the output so much different from the newer CMOS sensors. I think the CMOS sensors were cheaper to manufacture. I shot a lot of work with the D200 and really miss that great output. It was sharper pixel per pixel as well.
@@EdwardMartinsPhotography
I am throwing my D850 into the Dumpster. It is the worst Nikon DSLR I have ever owned. It has a focus success rate of about 0%, much poorer than the D810, and that is using the latest and supposedly greatest 70 - 200 f2.8. I will go back to the 200, as it does a much better job colour and contrast.
My experience still remains that the mirrorless cameras still don't focus properly at all. Reminds me of the issues with the non-Nikon lenses not hitting the focus targets properly.
Personally, I'll still go with the D850, it really feels like a good camera in your hand, not like a toy as all mirrorless cameras are...
15:12 - are these DUAL Expeed 6 processors lagging?... maybe in the Z8 they will put 4 CPUs so you'll get more than just 3fps with each battery charge :))
Bored of this now, every few months it pops up time to switch, you can take a great photo with an ancient camera system.....
Then why are you here?
Hi, as per my observation, image quality of D810 is better than Z7 II. I used 70-200 f2.8 lens on both the bodies. F mount lens adapted on to Z mount with adapter. I strongly believe there is an image quality difference.
That 600mm lens is massive! Can't imagine walking around with that thing, maybe if it had wheels.
Interesting comparison…
Several years ago I’d purchased a Fujifilm mirrorless camera, sold it at a loss due to the fact that j have fairly large hands and was constantly fumbling with buttons, pushing things I then had to figure out how to correct. Oh and you must understand I come from a D700 that I still own and it’s still doing what it’s supposed to do, take still shots…
Yes I appreciate the smaller form factor of the Z series, but I’m still feeling like the body is to small for me. Perhaps he rumored Z9 will solve a lot of the “problems” inherent in current Z products.
Wolf, listen, I have the same D700 and want 850. My friends told me - “take D4s”
I always wanted to have a D850 but now that I have the money it seems more reasonable to buy the Z7II
or may be it seems more reasonable to by g50s now :-P
Are you going to compare the Z6ii to the D750/780 I’m interested to see how they stack up
I love you guys. You're like the sweetest couple without intenionally being sweet.
🤢
Ergonomically, I'd really wanna have something like D850 but mirrorless and with ibis
It would be so cool if Nikon could put the advantages of the Z7 II intro a DSLR. Like IBIS, Good live view autofocus, silent shutter, maybe hybrid viewfinder where you can switch between EVF and OVF (similar to the Fujifilm X-Pro series). You probably won't be able to use Z-mount lenses, but most stuff would be able to integrate i suppose.
Check out the d780!
Nikon D880 due out early next year.
Hmmm 9:21 was that clock?
Seriously, if a pro can’t take excellent pictures with any modern camera, the fault is NOT with their equipment. Look behind the camera.
When a camera can’t reliably AF.
It depends on usecase at the end of the day. I have D810 and I only use it for portrait and family pictures. My purpose is to get the great pics of my family so I will be continue using my D810 until it dies
6:53 - I wonder who edited this video :D
😂😂😂
How much of that EVF lag is actually the IBIS? I found on my Lumix G9 that for BIF the IBIS *has* to be off. I used a red dot sight on the hotshoe, and with IBIS on I found at 400mm the picture could lag the boresight axis by close to half a frame. With IBIS on as you quickly pan the sensor doesn't until it hits the limits.
I'm with Chelsea! I love my D 810.
Tony, please assign subject tracking to one of the fn buttons. By doing so, you can leave the camera in auto area af most of the time an have subject tracking with the press of a single button. Try it out if you have time!
I've tried it! I do mention it in the video. I just find the fn buttons to be difficult to reach (especially compared with the setup on the D850) and it requires an extra button press compared to the D850.
I added a pinned comment to address this in detail. Thanks!
A good argument for having both, which is the current situation.
I am with Chelsea, I like D850 as view finder is easy for glass wearer and I added a x2 boost
This is starting to feel like a Dr. Ho infomercial:(
Why replace the d850 at all?
Z7 the first also has eye autofocus, just came in a firmware update
true. promised to do a video about that almost 2 years ago, never came....
Nikon D850 is still my dream camera thank you! Nikon user here.🙂
I don't get this flip screen obsession, i have 3 cameras, one with flip screen, one with tilt screen and one with fixed screnn, every time i have to move my screen i use the camera with tilt, flip screen using external mic or hdmi output or monitoring audio is a mess. Only people that use flip screen on professional camera are youtubers...
Good tilt screen > every flip screen
Agreed
@@detectivejonesw true. But I almost want to go one step further and remove the tilt screen. Makes it more durable, look at the sport bodies
@@sloppy-1-1 tbf, I can see a benefit for all 3 types. Obviously people who film themselves will want a flip screen, I get that. I just don't believe those people are as common as you'd be led to believe from RUclips camera reviewers, because guess what, most of those people film themselves at least some of the time.
For something like street photography, a tilt screen can be helpful in being more inconspicuous, and also a tilt screen is the best option for shooting high or low. And then as you say, you could just have a fixed screen if you need it to be super durable and also if you're pretty much exclusively shooting the viewfinder, as sports photographers generally do.
@@detectivejonesw sould be an option to choose between them!
Like fine wine... Just keeps on getting better.
Thanks guys!
I’m hoping the D880 deals with some of the issues discussed here. I’m a lifelong DSLR fan
They won’t make a D880 they have come out and said they are focusing fully on mirrorless and so they should. The lenses are so much better. They just have to fix the autofocus and they will will be class leaders again.
@@tallaganda83 not even the autofocus, it is pretty much only the af tracking (in combination with eyeaf)
@@tallaganda83 There's a lot more to fix than just the af. Ergonomically the Z bodies are way worse than their DSLRs. They're behind the competition in af, shooting speed, evf quality, battery life, customizabilty, lens selection, WiFi connectivity ... honestly, it's virtually every metric. They made the fantastic D850, then rested on their laurels. It's frustrating.
@@youknowwho9247 by behind the competition you mean not class leader and let’s face it no brand is on top in all of these categories. AF is superior to Fuji and Panasonic, canon and Sony are top but differences aren’t night and day. Shooting speed R5/6 is nice until your battery drops to 70% or you don’t have the right lens. Z6ii still has highest frame rate using mech shutter. Evf yeah I miss the 120fps of R6 but quality I find better than Sony for sure. Battery life nobody touches Sony, rest are comparable. Lens selection hmm interesting considering you can adapt any Sony lens and canon Ef, native yeah but what do you expect from a new mount - nothing touches the Z trinity. Not being able to adapt old screw drive lens is not important to me. Customizability ehh Sony is best but you have to trade ergonomics.
@@livejames9374 not to mention that you can't use e shutter in every condition while the mechanical shutter of the z6ii is universal
There was a back-and-forth that the D850 didn't change the DoF in the OVF when Chelsea changed aperture.
One question: Does the D850 *not* have a 'preview' button?
Yes it does. Another internet reviewer that doesn’t know how to use the kit I’m afraid.
The D850 is my dream camera. Waiting for the price to come down a bit more. I shot Nikon since I started but recently shifted over to Fuji and sold all my Nikon gear.
I'd love for Nikon to make a full mirrorless successor to the D850 but so far I've been fair unimpressed with their offerings, very average (in my opinion and compared to their main competitors). Hoping they still have something in the tank to blow everyone away again, just like they did with the D850.
Hello when you used the Peter Filter in the day light on your Camera if i can asked do you have the 1-5 stop or the 6-9 on your camera i want to buy one, so i was wondering which one you used for the sun
Nice overview and well presented facts. It proves that both systems have pros and cons right now. I am still hanging onto my Nikon D7500 for wildlife photography but I want to eventually switch to a mirrorless system because I am a hybrid photo/video shooter and the LiveView AF is terrible on Nikon DSLR's (as proved by Chelsea using the D850). The EVF lag is a real issue with mirrorless for wildlife shooting too. Hopefully these issues will be resolved soon.
Although I have mostly moved to mirrorless, I think there is still a lot to be said for the solidly built, fast, and supremely usable SLR workhorses. Don’t forget those teething years of mirrorless where every downside was characterized as “almost” as good (e.g., “like looking through an optical viewfinder,” or a few-hundred shot battery life as “not terrible”). The convoluted AF settings are one example of mirrorless cameras getting in the way of photographing. For this reason, I’ve made another move, not away from mirrorless but toward cameras with more tactile and better laid out buttons and other controls, less menu clutter, and therefor more adept at getting out of my way. I generally turn photo review completely off, including on rangefinder cameras with no EVF. Light hasn’t changed, the exposure triangle has not changed, and solid, fast, and reliable camera bodies are just as valid today as ever. One last point: every photo and video frame is of a past moment and, regardless of refresh rate and lack of blackout, every EVF is by definition showing you only what has already occurred. I suspect seasoned sports and wildlife photographers will always have an edge in terms of reaction time using optical finders over EVFs. The latter are getting increasingly great results but that is due to advances in predictive and intelligent autofocus systems rather than photographers’ skill. The camera processors and firmware are essentially using a high tech spray and pray approach reliant on the video (past) image of moving subjects to estimate the upcoming position. It’s silicon in place of hand-eye coordination and earned knowledge of subject behavior.
Agreed, mirrorless has come a long way. But my cameras get beaten to hell, optical viewfinder is still king. AF is still better in a DSLR.
The day is coming when mirrorless will do everything, withstand tough conditions and have a viewfinder that matches optical. But it will likely require breakthrough battery tech that does not yet exist.
When Nikon puts out the successor to D850 in DSLR as it is rumored, such as a D880 with Z video tech inside (like they did for the D750/D780), I believe Chelsea might like trying that one out. Would she sell her D850 and get a D880 body? There is something to be said for having a lot of external button controls to speed up things.
Chelsea mentioned "Blackouts" makes it hard to shoot wildlife, also mentioned switching to R5. Do you have blackouts also on the R5? Is the R5 ok for wildlife and sport?
I have an R6 which has same focus system and frame rate. If you use the fast mechanical shutter at 12 fps there’s no issue tracking birds in flight. Even less so 20 FPS electronic. Blackout just isn’t noticeable, to me at least.
The D780 is such a great combination of these two!
I'll be trying one out this week. If only if was in a D5xxx shell. I don't need the tack sharp glass. I need a better all-rounder and the user experience I had with my pro DSLR's for over 15 years.
Old is gold. D850 is price is very less and the best camera .
i'll never sell my d850! i look at computer screens all day, give me a break!!
Owned a D850 and own z7 now..
That old style casio watch display shows specs in every condition, new oled display can't in bright light. It's barely visible when you cover it with a palm.. It just drives me crazy
I'm a little disappointed I didn't see a Helicopter being shot down with that 600mm Rocket Launcher!! Holy shhht haha
sticking with my 850s thanks , mirrorless bodies are far to small for bigger hands
Great video I appreciate showing all the shortcomings & advantages to Mirrorless x DSLR & comparative to the best Nikon has to offers. Z7 II might not have everything, it’s enough to carry me a years tho. Hope I win, happy New Years Northrup clan 🙏🏾
I’ve been shooting Nikon for 16 years not a professional. I fine the most compelling reason to go with the Z mirrorless cameras is the mount and the new line of lenses. The mount in my opinion is game changer. Any thoughts.
I own a D850 and wouldn’t change it for any mirror less camera at this time! Watch what happens when your mirrorless camera slams into the cement on a tripod. 😟 My d850 did that and survived to shoot another day😃 and still working strong
If you're using all focusing points and its missing your intended subject you just press the ok button on the back and the 3d tracking box appears in the middle. I basically use it as an easy temp single point AF mode
Check the pinned comment
I have both, I shoot D850'd in the studio with an 85mm PC-E, for location, Z7 and Z7II with three to four Lenses. DONE!!
Super rich
@@endowpictures22 No, I do this for a living, Nikon NPS requires at least two bodies and two lenses to join, I joined in 1987, two years after I graduated from College. The main reason I haven't switched to mirrorless in the Studio is that I don't think I will be able to use the PC-E lens effectively with the EVF, I haven't tried it yet. I used to focus a Large Format Digital Camera on a 20" Computer Screen, that worked, but my old eyes might not be able to do it on an EVF.
What are you talking about, the Z7 did have eye auto focus after the firm ware updates and the function buttons are ideally placed to use while shooting . The focus modes are simple to change with the function buttons. About time you watched some other channels to find out how to use the auto ficus as it does work differently to the DSLR’s but in the right hands can be equally as good, even kingfishers in flight.
The difference to my photography would be minor. The difference to my wallet however...
Thank you for this, I have the D850 and D810. I only shoot portraits and no video as I am a maternity photographer in studio and on location with OCF. I need to decide what I need. I would love the EVF and focusing points. I have the 105mm 1.4 and 24-70mm 28
and 35MM .14 and 85mm 1.8. all F mount glass. Should I get the Z7II or wait until a D850 replacement. Thanks in advance for all that reply. So SO CONFUSED.
I think a Z7 II could speed your workflow up a bit but probably wouldn't completely change your life. If you were to upgrade to the new 24-70S lens, that would actually improve image quality quite a bit. Either way enjoy it!
9:20 whait what? 😂
ahahahahaah
Start-up time? How long does it take the Z7II to activate from rest? Be able to see the scene and take a pic? The D850? One can see the scene all the time and shoot almost instantly.
That wasn't really an issue for us. It seems fine.
@@TonyAndChelsea Good. I tried the Z50 and the lag got in my way.
I measured it on a Z6. It takes around 0.6 seconds to wake up. So basically when you flick the power switch while lifting the camera to your eye it is operational by the time it gets there
@@romanpul How about from sleep. Power on but camera at rest. The same? The z50 I tried was slow enough to cause lost shots.
@@lsaideOK I barely let my camera go to sleep because it comes up so quickly. But I just ran a short test. On average between five tries it took something in between 0.7 and 0.8 seconds to wake up. But I just measured that by hand and didn’t correct for my reaction time. So it’s probably a bit less
With my Z7, that just replaced my d810, I have no focusing issues. I use the subject tracking most of the time (assigning that function to one of the two front buttons I can easily reach... I don’t understand why some people can’t), and only sometimes I put all the AF points on (for portraits). With an hour of practice, I was recomposing faster than with my DSLR
One problem I have with Nikon pro bodies is that they have too many buttons. I do not need immediate access to every setting via a button.
I have to disable some of them so that I do not accidentally make changes. I do not mind a convenient shortcut menu screen to make many changes.
If I have to disable buttons, then what is the point in having them?
I’ve been a Nikon user since 1983 and I feel like I’ve always been one of the FEW! I love my olympus mirror less but I miss my Nikon “feel”. Always some sacrifices when it comes to what you want to shoot. I’m so glad Nikon has developed their gear. As I’ve aged I’ve seen myself attracted to more lightweight gear so I can backpack on longer trips so I’m not sure I’ll ever return to heavy full crop gear. When backpacking I can only pick one camera so for now it must be the olympus Em1X ... loved loved loved your comparison video for an update on Nikon’s progress. One thing will never ever change-I love gear so I can always be persuaded to get newer better gear - I miss my Nikon FX bodies and only have the D750 for night work
thanks! I liked the review. maybe Z7iii? Still on the Nikon D810 with the best glass possible and it's still great for fine art portraits and real estate photography. Want to upgrade but wait until the next when the software and tracking, iso for video is better again, thanks.
Whew! Early on I thought this one was going to end in a divorce. Seriously, I do like the competition format. Great job as always!
Some point the woman mention isn't really advantage for example continuously checking the image after click is takes the bigger battery capacity away and the 90deg screen flip isn't a big deal just lean a bit forward with the 45deg unless couple of inches are of height what matters
It doesn't matter how good the mirrorless camera is, you still get the digital viewfinder and that is a complete showstopper for me.
I own a D4 and am looking for a second body. I can't decide between the D850 or a Z model. What do you think. I do weddings and portraits but finding myself wanting better cideo
This is more entertainment than actual review lol
I have two D810 and they have been great over the years for weddings and portraits. I have debated about going to Sony but most likely get one of these and also a Z9. People say those Z9 are too heavy and bulky but I have never used my D810's without a grip so I guess I'm really used to it.
9:10 - Sports and wildlife test.... don't please lol!
I love you guys. What a cool contrast. You guys are the Siskel and Ebert of the Camera world. I realise sometimes you both agree and one is playing the devils advocate, and that's cool too. But I love to watch videos like this where you guys entertain and compete and give the viewer a fuller understanding of two separate viewpoints, both valid, but both illuminating and edifying for the consumer. Bravo. Databyter
"She thicc!" "Tony was right!"x3 Great video!
Does image quality of Chelseas older F-lenses improve when you put them on the Z-Mount with the adapter? Or are they the same in quality as on the D-850?
Same