and the musical is painfully shallow compared to the book. so there's a lot of material for people to cover! they get drawn in by the catchy songs & hopefully stay for the message. 🤯😁
Niceness is performative, done for the sake of being seen and admired. Kindness is action, whether it's highlighted or hidden. There are a couple of moments that normally get huge laughs in the live performances, where Galinda is really making an example of how distinct the shift between her selfish motivations and her public persona are, ex: 'I didn't get my way' or Popular's back-handed compliments. I felt like these were weirdly downplayed in the movie version, possibly because Ariana Grande's own public persona and marketing currently revolves around 'kindness' and Glinda's 'niceness, not kindness' is called out, if not specifically, by the general narrative of the film. Ariana's been accused of being two-faced or 'not a girl's girl' in the past so I wouldn't be surprised if that's part of the reason why they were averse to go for full Brat Glinda like other stage actresses have. In a fun little piece of trivia, iirc Glinda in the books is actually a better person than musical-Glinda. Ex: while in the stage version it's merely to impress Fiyero, in the book she really does change her name out of sympathy not just towards Dr. Dillinger but also for the sake of a personal connection to the 'nanny' goat that looked after her as a child. Glinda is portrayed as someone who isn't actually a villain so much as she is willing to put aside her personal objections and 'work within the system' to achieve her objectives, even if some of those objectives/reforms are literally impossible - and Elphaba is the anarchist/activist counterbalance who is able to achieve what is impossible for Glinda to do, safely & politically, via extremism or acts of terrorism. I can't wait for Part II to come out.
You're so nice! You're not good you're not bad you're just nice! I'm not good I'm not nice I'm just right! Into the woods are wicked are very similar musicals in some ways
@Demonetization_Symbol "nice is different than good" is a reflection of the Big Bad Wolf. He was nice to Red Riding Hood so that he could manipulate her more easily and eat her in the end. Good people can absolutely be nice, but nice people aren't necessarily good.
I relate to Elphaba so much in that I was always an outcast at school all throughout my childhood. I was always judged for my appearance by my peers and in their eyes and unfortunately my own as well, I was ugly. I was always outlasted, ignored, and never ever picked to be part of anyone's team or group for anything at school. In my late teen years, these trauma caused me to desperately wanting to be wanted and desired. I felt like no one wanted to be my friend or desired my attendance. Glinda certainly acted on her desire to be liked by the mass and her gestures may have been just surface level, but she grew to truly cherish Elphaba and I'd give anything to have had someone like her in high-school. Glinda isn't like Regina in that she truly cared for Elphaba once she became friends with her. She may have valued different things at the end of part 1, but she also sincerely admired Elphaba for standing up for what she believed and wished her success with all sincerity. In my eyes, Glinda isn't a villain.
I think the biggest show of Elphabas kindness in the movie is her patience with her family, she's not resentful of Nessarose for being the favourite and is a true ally. Like when Nessarose doesn't want the Shizz headteacher to push her around, Elphaba isn't angry that the woman is pushing her sister but that she's ignoring her sisters protests to being pushed. If Nessarose was happy with being pushed around by the headteacher, Elphaba wouldn't have interfered. Which I think is more telling of her kindness than anything else in the movie, especially in how it relates to our real world when a lot of allyship for various marginalised groups is more performative than actually basing ones allyship on the lived experiences of those within the marginalised group. If that makes sense.
Also, it saddens me that from all the review and commentary videos I've watched since watching wicked, one moment from the movie really stuck out to me and I've not seen anyone else mention it yet at all. And that's a small world building element, when Elphaba uses magic to help Nessarose at school and accidentally damaged some of the buildings, it's shown that wizard art is literally being used to cover up older Animal based art. Which I thought was a beautiful small but powerful world building touch.
It also parallels Galinda and Elphaba's first meeting, where she made a spectacle of her "allyship" at the expense of Elphaba's dignity - it was a thing that did not need to be voiced. This was a stranger that Galinda was publicly humiliating for social credit while Elphaba only speaks out when the voice of the marginalised are ignored. Elphaba only makes a spectacle by accident because her effort to deescalate was being ignored.
I agree and I liked how this scene shows how people with disabilities are treated. Nessa is clearly advocating for herself but no one wants to listen to her. It also shows how Elphaba, a caretaker of hers is not listened to either. People who can’t relate to the person with a disability assumes they are helping and knows what they are doing, but don’t. While Nessa’s character is not a favorite to viewers, I am glad the movie showed this aspect.
I always used to see Glinda as a villain, but this movie has made me see her differently. I read the book before I saw the musical, and I strongly empathised with Elphaba.
See this is why as somebody who’s favorite character is Elphaba, I 100% believe that Glinda is the harder role to play. This is a debate that the kids have been having for years about Glinda’s growth in the show. She has no bad intentions. But she also doesn’t fully understand how her actions and her words can come across as not genuine. It is through her friendship with Elphaba, that she grows not only empathy, but genuine care. And by the end, she realizes that her role is being the person that makes the changes from the inside out. I can’t wait for the second half of the movie to come out next year so that people can see how much she really is affected by what’s going on. Both of these characters are super deep and complex and I think that that’s the one thing that I’m glad was expanded up upon from the original source material. Two things can be true at the same time. A good person can do bad things. And I think Glinda is a perfect example of this.
One thing I will note: while I DO see how Glinda’s “popular” bit is ALSO about “hey, you’re gonna be my friend, you’re gonna look the part”: Yet it’s also worth noting that she really hasn’t changed a single thing about Elphaba, by the time she calls her beautiful. Just put a flower in her hair. She’s also the ONLY person who realizes how deeply Elphaba actually yearns for acceptance. Even Fiyero buys into Elphaba not giving a shit what anyone else thinks. So I think “popular” is both nice AND kind. I think Glinda is also genuinely using what has worked for her, to try to give Elphie some of the acceptance she has.
I had a roommate in college who bugged me and tried to set me up with boys. She wasn't being mean or picking on me, she just *could not compute* that someone wasn't interested in dating and makeup. Glinda was more insistent, but I think she also didn't "get" Elphaba: they had very different home lives.
Glinda was more wicked to me than Elphaba but I can see how she’s considered “nice” overall because she does things that a person would go “that’s so nice of her” that are basic human decent things to do but Elphaba goes the extra mile for others which is why she’s kind❤Thank you for another amazing video 🙌🙌💖💚
Glinda actually has character growth though. Elphaba ends up seeing OZ as all bad and it robs her of her growth and she doesn’t actually accomplish anything to help the cause she wants. Elphaba needed to heal herself first. Glinda grows and does good, she even helped Dorothy heal her trauma by encouraging her to go on the journey to Oz. Elphaba ended up going down deeper in her CPTSD and her guilt and shame destroyed her at the end.
Part of Elphaba's downfall was caused by Glinda tho. Glinda inadvertently gave Morrible the idea to murder Nessarose, then she had the audacity to give Elphaba's family heirloom and last remnant of her sister to a stranger (and told her to get over it when she kidnapped Dorothy), then Fiyero is tortured and presumed dead. All because she was pissed that Fiyero picked Elphaba and not her.
I enjoyed listening to you. Arguably the character development we see wouldn’t have happened if she’d never fake-encouraged a boy who was harassing her to ask out a disabled girl, which is nuanced in itself. Because that’s why Nessa asked Elpheba to see Galinda in a better way.
It also shows how even though people view Nessa as traditionally beautiful, Glinda still says she “is tragically beautiful” due to her being a chair which is sad. And it goes with the point of how Glinda sees things superficially.
Another character that came to mind when thinking of the distinction was Lester Nygard from Fargo. He can easily be described as polite or nice but it is shown he is arguably one of the worst characters ever shown throughout the whole series. kindness goes far beyond JUST courtesies.
Why is it so hard for people to admit Glinda is selfish and unlikable? this story depicts how the masses truly are at heart. Why does she initially loath Elphaba? Because she’s green? That’s prejudice call it what it is. Let’s be honest. Who is befriending Glinda after the way she treated her? Then proceeded to immediately tell her she’s ugly and needs a makeover. LOL I would never. Unless you’re a follower, but then again most people identify with that as well.
I don't think anyone (with a smidge of critical thinking) could reasonably deny that Galinda starts out as a vapid, shallow, perception obsessed individual. But, all due respect, but there's a little more nuance in her that so many people ignore.The reason Galinda initially loathes Elphaba isn't because she's green. It's because she's jealous. Galinda's greatest wish is to be a powerful sorceress and her idol, Madam Morable, ignores and rejects her time and again in favor of Elphaba. As for popular, there's a whole depth to that song so many miss. As much as it is equal parts cringe and funny, looking at how things turn out in the end, was Galinda totally wrong about image being more valued in Ozian society than aptitude?
@ that is a good point since I do think people do kind of forget that elphaba was more talented then her so there always was that depth to their relationship along with the fact that their society was shallow
About the makeover, Galinda finally gave her positive attention during "Popular". Elphaba has been starved for friendship her whole life, and now she has a friend, even if said friend thinks of her as a "project" in the looks department. Nobody else even *tried* to include her: Galinda is superficial and shallow, but I think she's trying to help in her own way.
Why does she have to do something different? She actually accomplishes things at the end, especially in the storyline with Dorothy. She is doing the best that she can and does promote good. Elphaba didn’t accomplish anything :(
Why does she have to do something different? She actually accomplishes things at the end, especially in the storyline with Dorothy. She is doing the best that she can and does promote good. Elphaba didn’t accomplish anything :( The only hero is the person on the journey learning they don’t need anything outside themself to be whole and happy. What they are seeking is usually just a symbol or how they movie puts “what your heart desires”
@@grandempressvicky6387 I understand where you are coming from. In the wicked franchise he is a fascist. In the original story I see him as more of the guy in Kansas that got Dorothy to go back home. And still view Oz from a dream perspective which is all of Dorothy’s projections.
@@Degrassigirl2530 which is fine, but Wicked is not the original story. It is a fanfiction of the original story, meaning the stakes are different. It makes Glinda working with the Wizard more egregious. He is a fraud who is persecuting Glinda's best friend and innocent creatures, and she makes the active decision to work for him. Keep in mind that Indina Menzel was cast because of her Jewish background, and Glinda is rich, blonde and blue-eyed. The persecution allegory is super literal. Fiyero and Elphaba beg her to run away with them to fight the Wizard in Acts 1 and 2, and she refuses (she even says to Fiyero that the popularity and luxury is just too good to resist - and she wonders why she isn't the one he picked). And by the time she finally stops working for fascists, Fiyero is dead, and Elphaba has given up. When they needed her most, when they asked her to be there, she was nowhere to be found. Only when she realises that she has nothing and nobody left does she finally do the right thing but now she has to do it alone because everyone who was going to help her are DEAD or gone because of her actions.
Philosophically, nice and kind are subjective, but both are ego-driven for self-fulfillment. The defining choices for each character is what they do when faced with objective evil. Glinda embraces it, literally, bc it's the easiest path to get her what she wants. Elphaba abandons everything, including her own sister, so she doesn't have to hurt anyone, which you can argue IS selfish.
Also, Elphaba never actually does any good for her cause she’s too busy doing damage control. Glinda showed growth. Both of them become symbols to the public and no human can live up to being a legend and will have to live with that burden. Including Oz. It is about the journey. It’s a balance between mercy and justice in my opinion.
@@Degrassigirl2530I also noticed that though I kind of disagreed since she does all those things when she is following the wizard or too escape I always thought it meant it’s easier to do the right then to be accepted
@@neigeepierrot4694 Elphaba was only ever accepted by Fyero and Glinda. Which she both hurt deeply. She did way more damage than good. She never did anything good after her tantrum. I know her intention was good but it never manifested. She ran first and stole the grimmery. Which was pointless because nobody else can read it or do anything. She was also told she couldn’t reverse what she did and she kept trying making things worse. Magic kept bending people’s free will. She can’t force people to change.
I’ve always heard this about the difference between NYC and LA lol. That in NYC we’re kind but not nice. Like we’ll help you, but curse you out for being dumb. And then in LA people are nice but not kind. So they’ll say “omggg I’m so sorry that happened to you!” but wont actually help 😅 That’s definitely a generalization and oversimplification of culture in the cities, but it always helped me to know the difference between nice and kind.
I don’t get all the Glinda hate. Most of us are Glindas. We want to be liked. Glinda had goals that did not involve elphaba. I don’t understand why people are expecting this child to throw away years of good standing with her peers just because elphaba got roped into being enrolled into a school she never was supposed to attend. Glinda got stuck with elphaba. Tbh
In regard to Glinda being flawed, everyone is flawed, so I don’t think this captures the way she moves and the impact of her seemingly harmless choices. The Wizard and Madame Morrible are THE villains, but Glinda is A villain. She does plenty of things that are malicious and cruel. It’s just that she does them covertly because she understands human psychology. This is why people like her are dangerous. She knows she can’t keep up her good persona if she explicitly says and does horrible things, so she does and says things that inspire the weak-minded to do her bidding and say and do the horrible things for her. This is the thing that goes over many folks’ heads in society. People who don’t see it are only looking at the blatant acts and don’t pick up on how things work with the Glindas of the world and how they use the the weak-minded herd mentality to indirectly control people like puppets so she can virtually keep her hands clean. This is why she tells us it’s shrewd to be popular. But people won’t pick up on her true message because they can’t get past how pretty, petite, and funny she is. People seem to have a hard time accepting this about Glinda because of what it implies about the people who follow her, but it is what it is. Glinda doesn’t get the pass of being ‘flawed.’ She is a villain and people who move like her can do lots of damage on all levels. But if people stopped blindly following people based on superficial things, they can think critically when the ‘nice’ person does or says something and see through the bs. The Glindas of the world are nothing without their followers. That’s why they need to be popular.
@@madlie2452 I think it's even worse in our world, in Oz the animals have the same cognitive hability as us. They can plan, run away, form a rebellion, speak out. In our world, they can't do any of these things, which makes them even more vulnerable and extremely easy to oppress and abuse. We prey on the weak, put them in horrible factories and sell them as objects. Elphaba would not stand for it, and for that.. she's the villain. And the poor citizens who take part in oppressing animals are the victim somehow..
When you thanked Gregory Maguire for creating these complex characters, you really should have also thanked Winnie Holzman and Stephen Schwarz for their immensely important contributions in extending what Maguire started into the play and movie.
See I wouldn't even say G(a)linda is nice. Glinda IS Good, by Oz's standard, but that's only because she's put on that pedestal. And she remains "good" by keeping the status quo instead of being "nice" or "kind" and trying to stop Morrible and the Wizard.
0:39 off topic but as a og witched fan i was expekting it to be trashy remake so wen i saw it was good if not a bit better then the og i was like😮 and im glad that people got Introduced to this
I like the concept of niceness versus kindness, but I have to disagree about Glenda being nice. She does nice things, but that doesn’t make her a nice person. She is an opportunist that knows how to use people to get what she wants. Even though she didn’t tell people to bully E she got a satisfaction out of bully because she was jealous that E was the one with the power. The only reason why she was nice to E was because felt guilty for putting her through that humiliation only because she did something that benefited her. No I don’t think that makes her a villain that just makes her human. My problem with new p perspectives of the same story as people like to use big words like “villain” instead of just saying, I just don’t like the character. Glinda did form a real friendship with E that was genuine and she was truly happy and supportive of her when she got invited to see the wizard , but when that friendship interfered with her status she distanced herself from it and goes along with the lie of the wizard for her status. Again doesn’t make her villain but she keeps that lie and help spread that lie to the city, that doesn’t make her a nice person.
I haven't seen or consumed any Wicked content in my life. Ive heard the "popular" song, but in listening to your video Glinda reads as Regina George to me, who was neither nice nor kind. But I'll have to watch the movie or musical before I solidify my opinion.
I love this new wave of "Glinda discourse" 😂 It's like the movie finally showed everyone how deep and political the musical always was!!
and the musical is painfully shallow compared to the book. so there's a lot of material for people to cover! they get drawn in by the catchy songs & hopefully stay for the message. 🤯😁
Niceness is performative, done for the sake of being seen and admired. Kindness is action, whether it's highlighted or hidden.
There are a couple of moments that normally get huge laughs in the live performances, where Galinda is really making an example of how distinct the shift between her selfish motivations and her public persona are, ex: 'I didn't get my way' or Popular's back-handed compliments. I felt like these were weirdly downplayed in the movie version, possibly because Ariana Grande's own public persona and marketing currently revolves around 'kindness' and Glinda's 'niceness, not kindness' is called out, if not specifically, by the general narrative of the film. Ariana's been accused of being two-faced or 'not a girl's girl' in the past so I wouldn't be surprised if that's part of the reason why they were averse to go for full Brat Glinda like other stage actresses have.
In a fun little piece of trivia, iirc Glinda in the books is actually a better person than musical-Glinda. Ex: while in the stage version it's merely to impress Fiyero, in the book she really does change her name out of sympathy not just towards Dr. Dillinger but also for the sake of a personal connection to the 'nanny' goat that looked after her as a child. Glinda is portrayed as someone who isn't actually a villain so much as she is willing to put aside her personal objections and 'work within the system' to achieve her objectives, even if some of those objectives/reforms are literally impossible - and Elphaba is the anarchist/activist counterbalance who is able to achieve what is impossible for Glinda to do, safely & politically, via extremism or acts of terrorism.
I can't wait for Part II to come out.
The title is so perfect and reminds me of into the woods when red riding hood says “nice is different than good”
Funny, I was thinking of the Witch's line, "you're not good, you're not bad, you're just nice"
You're so nice! You're not good you're not bad you're just nice! I'm not good I'm not nice I'm just right! Into the woods are wicked are very similar musicals in some ways
I see no difference
@Demonetization_Symbol "nice is different than good" is a reflection of the Big Bad Wolf. He was nice to Red Riding Hood so that he could manipulate her more easily and eat her in the end. Good people can absolutely be nice, but nice people aren't necessarily good.
I relate to Elphaba so much in that I was always an outcast at school all throughout my childhood. I was always judged for my appearance by my peers and in their eyes and unfortunately my own as well, I was ugly. I was always outlasted, ignored, and never ever picked to be part of anyone's team or group for anything at school. In my late teen years, these trauma caused me to desperately wanting to be wanted and desired. I felt like no one wanted to be my friend or desired my attendance. Glinda certainly acted on her desire to be liked by the mass and her gestures may have been just surface level, but she grew to truly cherish Elphaba and I'd give anything to have had someone like her in high-school. Glinda isn't like Regina in that she truly cared for Elphaba once she became friends with her. She may have valued different things at the end of part 1, but she also sincerely admired Elphaba for standing up for what she believed and wished her success with all sincerity. In my eyes, Glinda isn't a villain.
I think the biggest show of Elphabas kindness in the movie is her patience with her family, she's not resentful of Nessarose for being the favourite and is a true ally. Like when Nessarose doesn't want the Shizz headteacher to push her around, Elphaba isn't angry that the woman is pushing her sister but that she's ignoring her sisters protests to being pushed. If Nessarose was happy with being pushed around by the headteacher, Elphaba wouldn't have interfered.
Which I think is more telling of her kindness than anything else in the movie, especially in how it relates to our real world when a lot of allyship for various marginalised groups is more performative than actually basing ones allyship on the lived experiences of those within the marginalised group. If that makes sense.
Also, it saddens me that from all the review and commentary videos I've watched since watching wicked, one moment from the movie really stuck out to me and I've not seen anyone else mention it yet at all. And that's a small world building element, when Elphaba uses magic to help Nessarose at school and accidentally damaged some of the buildings, it's shown that wizard art is literally being used to cover up older Animal based art. Which I thought was a beautiful small but powerful world building touch.
It also parallels Galinda and Elphaba's first meeting, where she made a spectacle of her "allyship" at the expense of Elphaba's dignity - it was a thing that did not need to be voiced. This was a stranger that Galinda was publicly humiliating for social credit while Elphaba only speaks out when the voice of the marginalised are ignored. Elphaba only makes a spectacle by accident because her effort to deescalate was being ignored.
I agree and I liked how this scene shows how people with disabilities are treated.
Nessa is clearly advocating for herself but no one wants to listen to her. It also shows how Elphaba, a caretaker of hers is not listened to either.
People who can’t relate to the person with a disability assumes they are helping and knows what they are doing, but don’t.
While Nessa’s character is not a favorite to viewers, I am glad the movie showed this aspect.
I always used to see Glinda as a villain, but this movie has made me see her differently. I read the book before I saw the musical, and I strongly empathised with Elphaba.
Glinda and Elphaba have one of the most well developed and powerful friendships ever portrayed on film in this movie fact!
See this is why as somebody who’s favorite character is Elphaba, I 100% believe that Glinda is the harder role to play.
This is a debate that the kids have been having for years about Glinda’s growth in the show. She has no bad intentions. But she also doesn’t fully understand how her actions and her words can come across as not genuine. It is through her friendship with Elphaba, that she grows not only empathy, but genuine care. And by the end, she realizes that her role is being the person that makes the changes from the inside out. I can’t wait for the second half of the movie to come out next year so that people can see how much she really is affected by what’s going on. Both of these characters are super deep and complex and I think that that’s the one thing that I’m glad was expanded up upon from the original source material.
Two things can be true at the same time. A good person can do bad things. And I think Glinda is a perfect example of this.
but at a point your bad that is a oxymoron
One thing I will note: while I DO see how Glinda’s “popular” bit is ALSO about “hey, you’re gonna be my friend, you’re gonna look the part”:
Yet it’s also worth noting that she really hasn’t changed a single thing about Elphaba, by the time she calls her beautiful. Just put a flower in her hair.
She’s also the ONLY person who realizes how deeply Elphaba actually yearns for acceptance. Even Fiyero buys into Elphaba not giving a shit what anyone else thinks.
So I think “popular” is both nice AND kind. I think Glinda is also genuinely using what has worked for her, to try to give Elphie some of the acceptance she has.
I agree
Also agree...
I had a roommate in college who bugged me and tried to set me up with boys. She wasn't being mean or picking on me, she just *could not compute* that someone wasn't interested in dating and makeup. Glinda was more insistent, but I think she also didn't "get" Elphaba: they had very different home lives.
Didn't she take off her glasses?
Glinda was more wicked to me than Elphaba but I can see how she’s considered “nice” overall because she does things that a person would go “that’s so nice of her” that are basic human decent things to do but Elphaba goes the extra mile for others which is why she’s kind❤Thank you for another amazing video 🙌🙌💖💚
Glinda actually has character growth though. Elphaba ends up seeing OZ as all bad and it robs her of her growth and she doesn’t actually accomplish anything to help the cause she wants. Elphaba needed to heal herself first. Glinda grows and does good, she even helped Dorothy heal her trauma by encouraging her to go on the journey to Oz. Elphaba ended up going down deeper in her CPTSD and her guilt and shame destroyed her at the end.
Part of Elphaba's downfall was caused by Glinda tho. Glinda inadvertently gave Morrible the idea to murder Nessarose, then she had the audacity to give Elphaba's family heirloom and last remnant of her sister to a stranger (and told her to get over it when she kidnapped Dorothy), then Fiyero is tortured and presumed dead. All because she was pissed that Fiyero picked Elphaba and not her.
Since moving to the midwestern US, I find myself thinking A LOT about niceness vs kindness. You're right, this is a good demonstration.
I enjoyed listening to you. Arguably the character development we see wouldn’t have happened if she’d never fake-encouraged a boy who was harassing her to ask out a disabled girl, which is nuanced in itself. Because that’s why Nessa asked Elpheba to see Galinda in a better way.
It also shows how even though people view Nessa as traditionally beautiful, Glinda still says she “is tragically beautiful” due to her being a chair which is sad. And it goes with the point of how Glinda sees things superficially.
after watching this movie, I've sketched these girls four times in my sketch books. I NEEDED PART YWO YESTERDAY babes
I am soooo obsessed with this movie and the songs are amazing
RUclips comments are insane cuz you’re so underrated and I agree with all your takes! keep it up girly ☺️💕
Galinda Literally and Metaphorically lived in a Bubble until she met Elphaba 🫧😂🫧
Another character that came to mind when thinking of the distinction was Lester Nygard from Fargo. He can easily be described as polite or nice but it is shown he is arguably one of the worst characters ever shown throughout the whole series. kindness goes far beyond JUST courtesies.
Why is it so hard for people to admit Glinda is selfish and unlikable? this story depicts how the masses truly are at heart. Why does she initially loath Elphaba? Because she’s green? That’s prejudice call it what it is. Let’s be honest. Who is befriending Glinda after the way she treated her? Then proceeded to immediately tell her she’s ugly and needs a makeover. LOL I would never. Unless you’re a follower, but then again most people identify with that as well.
I think she genuinely wants to be kind
That is something I noticed too though I think people just understand wanting to be kind but being nice instead
I don't think anyone (with a smidge of critical thinking) could reasonably deny that Galinda starts out as a vapid, shallow, perception obsessed individual. But, all due respect, but there's a little more nuance in her that so many people ignore.The reason Galinda initially loathes Elphaba isn't because she's green. It's because she's jealous. Galinda's greatest wish is to be a powerful sorceress and her idol, Madam Morable, ignores and rejects her time and again in favor of Elphaba. As for popular, there's a whole depth to that song so many miss. As much as it is equal parts cringe and funny, looking at how things turn out in the end, was Galinda totally wrong about image being more valued in Ozian society than aptitude?
@ that is a good point since I do think people do kind of forget that elphaba was more talented then her so there always was that depth to their relationship along with the fact that their society was shallow
About the makeover, Galinda finally gave her positive attention during "Popular". Elphaba has been starved for friendship her whole life, and now she has a friend, even if said friend thinks of her as a "project" in the looks department. Nobody else even *tried* to include her: Galinda is superficial and shallow, but I think she's trying to help in her own way.
I don’t see her as the villain but she’s definitely not the hero and is scared to step out and do something different
Why does she have to do something different? She actually accomplishes things at the end, especially in the storyline with Dorothy. She is doing the best that she can and does promote good. Elphaba didn’t accomplish anything :(
Why does she have to do something different? She actually accomplishes things at the end, especially in the storyline with Dorothy. She is doing the best that she can and does promote good. Elphaba didn’t accomplish anything :(
The only hero is the person on the journey learning they don’t need anything outside themself to be whole and happy. What they are seeking is usually just a symbol or how they movie puts “what your heart desires”
@@Degrassigirl2530not you defending a fascist lol
@@grandempressvicky6387 I understand where you are coming from. In the wicked franchise he is a fascist. In the original story I see him as more of the guy in Kansas that got Dorothy to go back home. And still view Oz from a dream perspective which is all of Dorothy’s projections.
@@Degrassigirl2530 which is fine, but Wicked is not the original story. It is a fanfiction of the original story, meaning the stakes are different. It makes Glinda working with the Wizard more egregious. He is a fraud who is persecuting Glinda's best friend and innocent creatures, and she makes the active decision to work for him. Keep in mind that Indina Menzel was cast because of her Jewish background, and Glinda is rich, blonde and blue-eyed. The persecution allegory is super literal.
Fiyero and Elphaba beg her to run away with them to fight the Wizard in Acts 1 and 2, and she refuses (she even says to Fiyero that the popularity and luxury is just too good to resist - and she wonders why she isn't the one he picked). And by the time she finally stops working for fascists, Fiyero is dead, and Elphaba has given up. When they needed her most, when they asked her to be there, she was nowhere to be found. Only when she realises that she has nothing and nobody left does she finally do the right thing but now she has to do it alone because everyone who was going to help her are DEAD or gone because of her actions.
Philosophically, nice and kind are subjective, but both are ego-driven for self-fulfillment. The defining choices for each character is what they do when faced with objective evil. Glinda embraces it, literally, bc it's the easiest path to get her what she wants. Elphaba abandons everything, including her own sister, so she doesn't have to hurt anyone, which you can argue IS selfish.
Also, Elphaba never actually does any good for her cause she’s too busy doing damage control. Glinda showed growth. Both of them become symbols to the public and no human can live up to being a legend and will have to live with that burden. Including Oz. It is about the journey. It’s a balance between mercy and justice in my opinion.
Poor soul..who hurt you
@@Degrassigirl2530I also noticed that though I kind of disagreed since she does all those things when she is following the wizard or too escape I always thought it meant it’s easier to do the right then to be accepted
@@neigeepierrot4694 Elphaba was only ever accepted by Fyero and Glinda. Which she both hurt deeply. She did way more damage than good. She never did anything good after her tantrum. I know her intention was good but it never manifested. She ran first and stole the grimmery. Which was pointless because nobody else can read it or do anything. She was also told she couldn’t reverse what she did and she kept trying making things worse. Magic kept bending people’s free will. She can’t force people to change.
@@neigeepierrot4694 I’m glad she stuck with her values and in general I would say yes it is better to have integrity than be accepted.
I’ve always heard this about the difference between NYC and LA lol. That in NYC we’re kind but not nice. Like we’ll help you, but curse you out for being dumb. And then in LA people are nice but not kind. So they’ll say “omggg I’m so sorry that happened to you!” but wont actually help 😅
That’s definitely a generalization and oversimplification of culture in the cities, but it always helped me to know the difference between nice and kind.
Nicely done. ❤
I don’t get all the Glinda hate. Most of us are Glindas. We want to be liked. Glinda had goals that did not involve elphaba. I don’t understand why people are expecting this child to throw away years of good standing with her peers just because elphaba got roped into being enrolled into a school she never was supposed to attend. Glinda got stuck with elphaba. Tbh
In regard to Glinda being flawed, everyone is flawed, so I don’t think this captures the way she moves and the impact of her seemingly harmless choices. The Wizard and Madame Morrible are THE villains, but Glinda is A villain. She does plenty of things that are malicious and cruel. It’s just that she does them covertly because she understands human psychology. This is why people like her are dangerous. She knows she can’t keep up her good persona if she explicitly says and does horrible things, so she does and says things that inspire the weak-minded to do her bidding and say and do the horrible things for her. This is the thing that goes over many folks’ heads in society. People who don’t see it are only looking at the blatant acts and don’t pick up on how things work with the Glindas of the world and how they use the the weak-minded herd mentality to indirectly control people like puppets so she can virtually keep her hands clean.
This is why she tells us it’s shrewd to be popular. But people won’t pick up on her true message because they can’t get past how pretty, petite, and funny she is.
People seem to have a hard time accepting this about Glinda because of what it implies about the people who follow her, but it is what it is. Glinda doesn’t get the pass of being ‘flawed.’ She is a villain and people who move like her can do lots of damage on all levels.
But if people stopped blindly following people based on superficial things, they can think critically when the ‘nice’ person does or says something and see through the bs. The Glindas of the world are nothing without their followers. That’s why they need to be popular.
Omg Elphaba is vegan 🌿 she speaks up for the animals when nobody else will and gets labeled as the villain
Vegan? 😂😂 The movie never says that, we never see her eat
@jclyntoledo it's not about eating, it's about speaking up for the oppressed animals ❤️
It’s not the same though?
@@madlie2452 I think it's even worse in our world, in Oz the animals have the same cognitive hability as us. They can plan, run away, form a rebellion, speak out.
In our world, they can't do any of these things, which makes them even more vulnerable and extremely easy to oppress and abuse. We prey on the weak, put them in horrible factories and sell them as objects. Elphaba would not stand for it, and for that.. she's the villain. And the poor citizens who take part in oppressing animals are the victim somehow..
When you thanked Gregory Maguire for creating these complex characters, you really should have also thanked Winnie Holzman and Stephen Schwarz for their immensely important contributions in extending what Maguire started into the play and movie.
she follows the law of society so she's good. She speaks her mind, out ot turn against social norms makes her evil
I don't think it's nice versus kind so much as it is nice versus good :)
Who is V?
@jclyntoledo sorry it was meant to be VS. Have edited to say versus
See I wouldn't even say G(a)linda is nice. Glinda IS Good, by Oz's standard, but that's only because she's put on that pedestal. And she remains "good" by keeping the status quo instead of being "nice" or "kind" and trying to stop Morrible and the Wizard.
I do think that once glinda becomes friends with elphaba she grows kindness
0:39 off topic but as a og witched fan i was expekting it to be trashy remake so wen i saw it was good if not a bit better then the og i was like😮 and im glad that people got Introduced to this
Shambles indeed 😢
I like the concept of niceness versus kindness, but I have to disagree about Glenda being nice. She does nice things, but that doesn’t make her a nice person. She is an opportunist that knows how to use people to get what she wants. Even though she didn’t tell people to bully E she got a satisfaction out of bully because she was jealous that E was the one with the power. The only reason why she was nice to E was because felt guilty for putting her through that humiliation only because she did something that benefited her. No I don’t think that makes her a villain that just makes her human. My problem with new p perspectives of the same story as people like to use big words like “villain” instead of just saying, I just don’t like the character. Glinda did form a real friendship with E that was genuine and she was truly happy and supportive of her when she got invited to see the wizard , but when that friendship interfered with her status she distanced herself from it and goes along with the lie of the wizard for her status. Again doesn’t make her villain but she keeps that lie and help spread that lie to the city, that doesn’t make her a nice person.
Glinda’s very likable and endearing. She’s also a horrible person.
King Xerces in 300,
" I am Kind."
😂
I haven't seen or consumed any Wicked content in my life. Ive heard the "popular" song, but in listening to your video Glinda reads as Regina George to me, who was neither nice nor kind. But I'll have to watch the movie or musical before I solidify my opinion.
Im kind but im not nice. I tell it like it is.
💗
Why did people treat Elphaba that way?
Because they are racist
Because she’s green.
Hi