Holy shit I know right? I know the look on that man's face all throughout the video and he's completely ashamed of what he's done to his son throughout his son's life. I know because my dad did the same thing to me.
@@Goodpizzaa I'm so sorry about your dad doing that to you. I'm glad you didn't hurt yourself🥺. You can use your experience for good, let them know that their hurt won't last for always and there are always brighter days ahead but if you do something to yourself, you can't come back to enjoy the brighter to come.💙👩🏽
@@nicolebrown1927. Aka Mike Anthony Foster from Rockford, Illinois... Here we go with the lies of Mike Anthony Foster... *ALL FOR SOME EFFING YOU TUBE LIKES!!* You are pathetic "at best" 🤣😂
At first his mom says she didn’t know that he was thinking that way and that he’s in a bad place, but now they’re saying he committed suicide 4 times!!! Like she should have been more careful.
it was said that he was getting help, seemed much better, and had mentioned that he never wanted to try again after his last attempt. but i see where youre coming from.
After 4 attempted suicide, as legal guardian, you would think that it would be reasonable to admit your child to psychiatric hospital for well-needed therapy under watchful eyes of many specialists. I cannot really understand the standpoint of Conrad's family members - perhaps because they seems to be a bit shady themselves - but his suicide, to the degree successfully conducted with Michelle's tenacity, became somehow suiting them well in a moment. He finally did what he was fantasising for years (so, statement made by Prosecutor that Conrad would be happy living now if not Michelle was just ridiculous knowing his mental health issues and life struggles) and that girl became a scapegoat for Conrad family's incompetency and lack of taking responsibility for the health/happiness of own child. Despite everything, Michelle - being deeply troubled herself, no doubts - she contributed to his successful suicide attempt, but trying her for manslaughter is just stretch of terrible miscarriage of justice seen across the USA for a long, long time. Pity.
she spent a year begging him not to commit suicide? am I crazy? how is it that so many people are complaining about this bit as if they didn't mention her trying to convince him to stop for like a year? am I in the twilight zone?
@@HalfFey How do you know that though? I am genuinely asking. From all the text I found to read, she seemed to accept the idea eerily quickly, even somewhat romanticise his, then future death, by suggesting he would be her guardian angel, he would be happy in heaven, he would be her star, asking him for his last tweet to be about her etc Imagine discussing dying with a loved one, and their focus still being on themselves, e.g. you will be MY guardian angel, can your final tweet be about ME...That must have been so heart-breaking for him to hear. It must have affirmed that she didn't really care about him at all. They spoke of his death very calmly, in an almost excited manner, like he was gonna go on a long vacation or something. I don't know if you're in a twilight zone but I'm sorry to say that I believe you're very easily manipulated.
@@TimiDelta Have you actually read all the texts from 15 - 17 years old? She did try to talk him out of it for 2 years (it was 2 years, not 1) and it's only in the last few months that she started telling him to follow through and turning it into a weird glee fantasy. She even tried to tell his friend that "he's still talking about wanting to die" in texts and his friend told no-one (before) Conrad's Tylenol attempt; his mother went on to refuse in-patient care after this, and that was his 4th suicide attempt!! Even after finding suicide methods on his computer. Which is just bizarre! The texts they sent each other after Michelle was released from hospital for bulimia treatment are especially eye opening, though it was a constant in their texting; Michelle (for once) tried to talk about her mental health problems, and her hospital stay, focusing on how it really helped her to overcome bulimia, and he just ignored her said "I wish I had your problems" and went straight back to talking about how he wanted to kill himself. Through the thousands of texts I read, it really just looks like a completely one sided relationship where she would have to do all the emotional support, and he would either ignore, neg her, or talk about killing himself; and despite 4 attempts before his successful suicide he talks about having to steal his mothers credit card just to see a therapist. This case shows so much neglect from parents and "friends." Had just ONE adult in Conrad's life sought medical care, and addressed the physical and emotional abuse from his father, stepmother, and grandfather, I really don't think he would have killed himself, even with Michelle's delusions.
i feel like the majority of people are erasing the fact that she was trying to convince him not to in the beginning. also no one is connecting the dots between her not calling 911 and him telling her he would hate her if she did. i can’t understand the “helping him” delusion that she was in, but i do understand the fear of someone you love hating you and walking away leaving you alone. it can be paralyzing. if she truly believed helping him die was the right thing, then it’s not even a choice. one leads to him being alive and hating her and the other leads to what she believes is his greatest wish and he would go knowing how much she loved him bc she helped. or i could be totally wrong and she’s just a sociopath who’s a very good actor. i just prefer to believe the first one
Do you understand that she had romantic feelings for Alice alongside her supposed love for Conrad? It is natural for someone who loves their partner to try their best to alleviate their suffering and sadness, so her initial help for Conrad is not something exceptional. It should be noted that she is 17 years old while Conrad is 18, and if she had better judgment, she would have immediately sought help for him, even if it meant risking his anger towards her.
Yea he really dragged her into his problems then when she helped him with his plan, it's her fault ? If someone is gonna do it, no one can stop them. Her words weren't gonna ultimately decide his fate if he was serious about taking his life.
If we accept that that's true, then we may argue that cult leaders feel the same way when they inspire mass suicided. They may truly believe all their followers will go to heaven, they may truly believe it was for the best, none of it makes it any less influential or less harmful. If you're more afraid of dealing with the feelings of being hated than "someone you love" actually living and breathing, then you're a self-centred, self-indulgent, selfish narcissist, who loves and cares about nothing more than themselves and their own feelings. Cause a simpler way to put what you're saying, with less romanticising would be "I'd rather you die, than me feeling bad, myself". I think she succeeds in manipulating many of you, that's why people like her rarely fail with getting what they want. They know they're slightly more intelligent and slightly less emotional than you are. They can predict your thoughts and feelings but you are fully unaware of theirs because you cannot cope with the harsh reality that psychopaths are everywhere around us. She's a wolf in a sheep's skin.
@@xeclipse1791I mean, teenage love is weird. It's both incredibly intense but also very fleeting. You can be intensely in love with one person to the poiny where you think that you're going to be together forever- then a week later you're in love with someone else. Then add in the bisexual element, I'm bi and it was beyond confusing as a teen. Even tho I hate alot of LGBT+ friends I still didn't really understand my sexuality until I was in my 20's. I was kinda like Michelle in that I had zero sexual experience until I was a senior in high school. All my other friends were dating/hooking up from their early teens so I felt very isolated, like there was something wrong with me and I'd surely die alone. It seems so ridiculas now but at the time those feelings were very real. I was incredibly desperate for any kind of romatic attatchment and ended up being preyed on by a predator who sensed how vulnerable I was. But at least I had friends. Michelle had NO ONE. And the one person who she has any kind of relationship with is telling her that he is 100% going to kill himself and that if she tells anyone that he'll cut her off and hate her forever. And teens already are great secrect keepers, they are surrounded by sex, drugs, mental illness, teen pregnancy, secrect parties etc. Should she have told someone? Of course. But I'm not surprised she didn't.
That poor Conrad's father is a total POS!!! You NEVER punch a child, or let your gf call him names! If his son "took a swing" at him, he should have called the cops and let his son suffer a night in jail, if he wanted to "teach him not to do it again"!!
Its no wonder Conrad struggled with depression; my father was also a violent narcissist, I have experienced suicidal thoughts (not actively suicidal/ don't agree with the thoughts, but they are there,) having an abusive father destroys your mental health. The lack of remorse, lack of responsibility and the fact the abuser thinks hes justified is so gross. All abusers think they are justified. I blame the father for his suicidal ideation and suicide attempts (not saying Michelle isn't responsible for his final demise, but he was this way before he met her...)
@@gingerisevil02 I can relate to having a narcissistic father. Mine was just absent. Not having a healthy father figure growing up has done so much damage to his children
My Dad mentally and sometimes physically abused me growing up. He ruled with fear. It affects me to this very day. I'm 44 and on several meds for my anxiety.
At the worst moment of his life, the moment he got out of his truck, he called Michelle, and she told him to get back in. I wish he had called anyone but her.
He called her because he had spent all that time grooming her to get that response. He knew he would chicken out and called her in order to get the support he needed to go through with it. He spent all those months making sure he had properly groomed her to get the "do it" he knew he needed. She was trained by him to give that response over and over and when he needed it he called her. She was nothing to him but one of his tools for his suicide plan.
@@57andstillkicking if you believe that then you must agree that he also made his own choice to get back in the truck. Therefore she is innocent.( I mean she was innocent all the time anyway, she didn't break any laws.)
I agree with the judgment: Roy attempted to stop the suicide and in that moment her choice was not to get help for him but to pressure him back inside the truck to die. I do believe that she honestly cared for him and in a twisted way was legitimately trying to help him find an end to his pain but it was still the wrong thing to do.
@@akiramado9198 Simply calling someone "sick" is a gross oversimplification of the complexities that make people what they are and cause them to do what they do. She had problems but the case isn't as cut and dry as "evil bitch pushed innocent boyfriend to suicide".
I disagree there’s no actual proof that she actually told him to get back in the truck except for the text to her “friend” which is was proven in court 90% of what she said to them were partial or total fabrications for attention. They were both desperately unwell mentally but ultimately she still had the ability and insight to have told someone he needed help and got him the treatment he so sorely deserved. That would’ve been love.
after watching the documentary, I strongly feel that she is a complete sociopath who was seeking attention all along. those who claim that she didn't deserve her sentencing or that she wasn't involved in Conrad's death are in denial. It's disturbing that she said "I love you" to him after he had taken his life, especially since she had coerced him into doing it. additionally, she lied to several of her supposed friends about Conrad, claiming that they had sex or that he had raped her. why would someone who loved Conrad make false claims about sexual assault? It's clear to me that she's a sociopath who was seeking attention. I also find it frustrating when people claim that the messages encouraging Conrad to commit suicide weren't a form of coercion. just because they were exchanged over the phone from miles away doesn't mean that she isn't guilty. mental health is just as important as physical health, and it's wrong to trivialize it. a family lost their son, and people seem to forget that Conrad took his own life because she told him to get back in the car. It's obvious that Conrad loved her, so her words had a significant impact on him. If she had encouraged him to seek help or called the authorities, he might still be alive today. In my opinion, she should be held accountable for what she did and serve her time in jail.
I agree with conrad's aunt, when she said, anyone who loves someone truly will not encourage them to kill themselves " they would encourage them to get help. I agree wholeheartedly with her 💯
when i read his texts ,i feel as if he was hoping she'd talk him out of it ,so sad ,that it was someone like her he had to cross paths with ,another normal female ,that "Loves" someone would try to talk someone out of suicide
That’s exactly how I take it as he’s hoping she will say no I love you so much don’t let this happen. It’s so sickening how she acted there is absolutely no excuse for her behaviour. She played a huge role in his death. So tragic
She did just that for the longest time. At some point she gave up and gave in to his mindset. I feel everyone, really everyone, involved is a victim of horrible circumstances and conditions. It's sad.
@@caitlynroberts8108 Or maybe he just unloaded his emotional/mental issues on her, on a girl who was not equipped to deal with it. Maybe he did want her to "understand" him. Maybe Michelle was also mentally unwell and not just the "villain" you portray her to be. She did try to talk him out of it, it didn't help, meaning he didn't want to hear it, or couldn't. Not justifying what she did of course, just adding another perspective.
Maureen Yes, she is not normal. So was he. They were both mentally ill kids who ultimately brought out the worst in each other. Also, she DID try to talk him out of it and then something clicked in her mind or she snapped. Not justifying her behaviour, just explaining. Just watch the film carefully, she DID try to talk him out and it didn't help meaning he actually didn't want someone to talk him out. Just turning your attention to something you missed in the doc.
It is not her fault that he wanted to commit suicide. But her encouraging it and telling him to do it, was wrong. Somebody died. There has to be a consequence. If she is disturbed and suicidal as well, why didn't she do it but encouraged someone to? She have him live her fantasy almost.
I'm in two minds about one particular thing. She asks him in messages in the final hours if he deleted the messages so she clearly was aware on some level that it was wrong and was seeking to destroy potential future evidence. HOWEVER he had said he deleted the messages and he hadn't. He also left in his notes to family the passwords to his phone and laptop. He would have to know if he didn't delete the messages and left his passwords it would put her square centre in the frame of blame for this. So on some level did he also feel what she was doing was criminal and wanted in his death for someone to be the ultimate villain? It's entirely sad and I feel most for his mother and sister. I hope they can find peace and healing.
@@bluisdead2034 my guy did you watch the whole documentary? just because she’s crying at the end doesn’t mean the judge gave her a shorter sentence nor does it mean she feels remorse. the judge literally stated “that this court does not nor should it allow any emotional response to this case to enter into its determination.” meaning her shedding a few tears didn’t make the judge give her a lighter sentence. it seems to me like she was crying cause she was found guilty.
Suicide is an extremely complex process. I'm not aware of the mental health support services available to individuals in the US, however I do understand that there is a lack of Public Health Service funding for most of the population. Regardless of this Court's decision, or the opinions of people watching this case from afar, the most important focus should be on preventative action. Not just "awareness" rhetoric, but actual money to provide real care. There should be recommendations that proper Community MH Services and inpatient treatment where necessary, are not a luxury for wealthy members of society. They should be universally-accessible. The Court's 3-part decision mentions that Michelle had a duty of care once Conrad had stepped out of the car and called her. Is a 17yo a mandatory reporter? On the face of it - yes, of course. She should have called police, she should have called an ambulance, but she didn't. There is a moral obligation to help those in dire need. What is missing from this equation however, is the totality of their relationship, the dynamic, his representations to her about certain things and her to him. The brief glimpse into their communications signalled the possibility that Conrad wanted her permission to follow through, and without having access to every message and reliable data as to what words were actually exchanged, it's impossible to know fully what occurred. Her apparent capitalisation on his passing is bizarre, troubling and speaks to her state of mind, her coping strategy - whether she is guilty by public opinion as well as the Court's, or not. Both sides made good arguments. However I do believe that the complexity of one's mental state at the time of action to take one's life is something that is almost entirely impossible for those who haven't attempted such actions, to fully comprehend. I am an individual with lived experience. I have lost friends to suicide, and I have spent hours on the phone getting police, fire and ambulance to the people I loved who were in desperate need. Trial by media is devastating. Michelle should be receiving treatment in a psychiatric unit. If not to "rehabilitate her", than at bare minimum, to help shed light on what was real and what was an illusion. It is awful for Conrad's family to be put on trial as well. But Domestic Violence is incredibly damaging. It is largely unreported, and given the evidence of the previous assault on Conrad, I believe it has significant importance in this case as well. Although the legal system espouses rehabilitation, I don't believe incarceration in a regular facility is satisfactory to anyone's demand. Perhaps it gives Conrad's father some peace, but his mother stated that "Michelle is unwell", and in her immense graciousness, Conrad's mother shows empathy for Michelle. I really hope that all family and friends, everyone affected by this piece of history - because it's not just a story, it was Conrad's life - are getting love and support.
Still we don’t actually know if she did tell him to get back in. She made so much other stuff up. Maybe if she could only tell the truth and say no I didn’t tell him that I was just trying to sound dramatic to make friends.
I think she kinda knew that the cops were after her and send the txs to her friend telling her implication and that she actually told him to get back in the car. The was ultimately the evidence that sent her to jail. Haven’t her sent that tx we would never know for sure if she has asked him to get back or not.
I thought that, too. The prosecution framed it in the way like that was a text to him when it was a text to someone she wanted to be a friend afterwards.
I don't understand the verdict at all. If Michelle were guilty, then why are thousands of people who online bullied others to death (by telling them to kill themselves, no one cares, the world would be better without them) at people's worse and most vulnerable states of mind not found liable for their ultimate suicides? Furthermore, there is never evidence that Michelle told Conrad to "get back in" or finish what he started...none. I understand people's frustration to Michelle's not calling for help but it is not her burden to. It is immoral but not illegal for her to not call for help whatsoever. To me, it is as if the male judge input his own misogyny and his own idea of "femme fatale" in his final verdict.
Honestly, I believe her about the relationship with Alice. I think she just didn't want to be associated with her or admit to her mother that she had a thing for a girl at one point. The entire situation was too messy.
Some people have very desperate moments. If she felt the loneliness they say she felt, they both needed help. They failed each other. Their families failed them. All these kids she was talking to, failed them. Yes, she is just as responsible as he was. But she gets to live and he doesn't. She should feel the guilt of this the rest of her life. Hopefully she turns it around. I don't know that she should spend the rest of her life in prison, but I do believe some time is warranted. 6-7 years sounds fair to me. Hopefully her family and the system get her the help she needs.
Wow, the father said he wouldn't have changed a thing about that beating. The old man on the stand makes me dislike and distrust the field of psychiatric treatments and diagnosis even more. He sounds crazy
Ladies and gentlemen. There are no winners and losers in a case like this. These two kids were both badly mentally ill, and without full control of their minds due to being on these meds. I’ve spent my life on these meds. As a kid, they fucked up my head. People want to call Michelle a monster. But she isn’t. She did something bad, but isn’t a bad person.
i wanna hear more about what his relationship with his parents are like. it seems his father was physically abusive and his mother was not paying attention. i’m sure they contributed far more to his death than a teenage girl he was never even with in person did.
Its such a complex matter where BOTH people were in the wrong. They manipulated each other. They make it seem as if he was forced to go, sure, there was influence but HE is the one who did it at the end of the day. They make it seem as if he was an innocent boy when he already tried to kill himself many times before and knew different methods on how to do it.
@@bluisdead2034 He's not but it's still so tragic bc the world would be a better place with him in it. Those vlogs he did were pure honesty, and if he made a thing of doing a video diary like that he could've helped ppl he never met
@@bluisdead2034 sure but at the end of the day he chickened out and got out of the car and called her probably in hopes she'd talk him out of it but she pressured him to get back in and listened to his last breath. Yes he tried and knew ways but even I'm their texts she gave him ideas. look at all the ss of their texts she was guilty at the end of his life you could tell he just wanted her to tell him to stay. regardless if they're both guilty he is dead.
This guy used her so much. She used him to to re-create this fictional love story but he 100% used her in constant reassurance of everything for 2 years when she was completely unstable herself. Maybe one of these sets of parents should have said hey get off your fucking phone
Yep, I agree. He was doing to Michelle what she was doing to her school friends. Doesn't excuse what she did, but they were two messed up teenagers causing each other to lose their grip on reality.
Michelle should have never went to jail for this. She was a delusional teenager and she was portrayed like some cold calculated adult and that is just not reality. Conrad tried to commit suicide multiple times before and told Michelle to support him in the suicide and Michelle herself was delusional. I put the blame on the parents. They're the adults in this situation, they're the ones responsible for his actions
The argument that Conrad was manipulating and lying to Michelle to make her “believe she’s helping him” is so problematic beyond words. As someone who suffers from depression & anxiety, I understand where Conrad is coming from so much. He’s alone, he’s desperate, he clings to Michelle because he believes she’s the only one he can talk to. He is NOT trying to manipulate her. In her own way, maybe she did feel like she was helping him, but the way she acted after the fact just goes to show how attention seeking she was.
@@maybeen9294 okay I don’t doubt that they both needed help, but that’s not an excuse for what Michelle did. Yes, his father played a part, but Michelle planned this, she carried it out and she built a fantasy on herself where she was Lea Michele and Conrad was Corey. She even passed off quotes from Lea/Rachel as her own. She was messed up, but she took full advantage of Conrad’s mental state.
@@fatpinkteddy she did try to talk him out of suicide. it was established that she tried talking him out of suicide for a year before eventually conceding
What a clusterfuck. It's worrying because the greater commentary here is about how dysfunctional society has become. Despite all our progress with technology we have severely dysfunctional children growing up in a world humans are not well adapted for. We have no idea how bad things like relationships over texts can mess with us, what it can do to young people to get bullied online or use these things as substituions for real friends and affection, not to mention the dangers of SSRIs and the suicide they can cause. If you look up where Michelle lives it's this very affluent neighbourhood, these are middle class people with very comfortable lives and yet there's still severe depression and suicide. More than anything this should be the greater lesson here.
Every time Conrad tries talking about himself, she gets bored with that subject and shifts it to her--EXCEPT when he talks about "us" (which includes her, after all), or killing himself. Those were the only ways he could hold her attention. Hmm, so their "love" story/his death became, literally, her entertainment medium. Conrad was desperate to keep her listening. I don't think even Michelle realized how effective her self-centered personality was, when it came to achieving her goal. Things just followed their natural course. That's not to suggest she's NOT guilty af, just noting the interesting confluence of a selfish girl + a boy who bored most people, but needed attention.
" well she just told him to, he chose to. " they are forgetting to take into account that she literally helped him find methods to kill himself. hell he even sent her a picture of the generator. she told him when to do it where to go. thats assisted suicide. thats like an accomplice in a bank robbery, all her actions if directed towards robbing a bank, would be jail time. and at that point. with her telling him to just do it already. bombarding him with questions everyday with when are you, why havent you. helping him find ways to do it. the when. the where. its manslaughter. ALSO, not to mention she didn't even call the cops when she KNEW he died. and even if she couldn't distinguish right from wrong, that doesnt mean its excusable. she should get time. at the very least sent to a mental hospital to help her deal with her shit. she should not go free.
She knew it was wrong it’s not assisted suicide it was encouraging an already depressed pe who needed help she forced him and showed no frigin remorse and call no one she is evil
I would’ve broken that vow and told someone and not keep it to myself and watch someone die let alone encourage him. I would rather be hated and not spoken to ever again then having blood on my hands. Involuntary intoxication, what a bunch of BS. Trying to find any excuse so she can get a lesser sentence. I would never blame this on her taking medication. She was desperate for attention and she found the best solution. She didn’t care for Conrad no matter how many I love you’s she sent him.
This is ridiculous. Like saying a parent or spouse is responsible for someone overdosing on drugs if they bought or supplied it for them. Should they be held responsible for the death?? Was this girl a little crazy? Yes definitely. But we have to take responsibility for our own actions. We always want to place the blame on other people. Her actions were morally wrong that is it. The parents should take some responsibility in this. Also, he attempted this multiple times.
Hm, this doc has moved me to the other way. The person intent on killing themselves ultimately makes that decision. She got out on good behavior anyway.
@@omega8568 So fucking what? You love someone you want them to LIVE bc you want to have them with u for as long as possible. IDK that's just how I see it EDIT: I really agree with you tho the secret toxic relationship just brought them both down, and it just shows this case, like so much is more complicated than it looks
@@omega8568 no cause if she actually really loved him she would want him to live. she would’ve called someone for help either way even if he did say he would hate her for doing so. when you love someone you don’t encourage them to harm themselves, you’d want to be with them as much as possible.
@RealmEnchanted maybe you should stop trolling and acting edgy on the internet troll! Stop acting like you know everything! You're ignorant about mental health and need to document yourself! Let's hope when you're at the edge yourself someone would push you even further.
Or maybe he called for, and got, the exact support he was looking for. Why would he think she would tell him to stop? If he wanted someone to talk him out of it, he would have called his mother, sister, aunt, etc.
@RealmEnchanted in that state of mind he wasn’t able to take control of his thoughts on his own sh encouraged him when he was so vulnerable suggestions he trusted her and she forced him to end his life she’s a monster
@@grangrampa832and she was high off mis-prescribed anti-depressants, don't think she was exactly in control of her thoughts either. I mean you're truly saying an 18 year old, an adult, should not be held accountable for their own actions and that a 16 year old in another state has more accountability for that 18 year olds life?
@@grangrampa832he spent two years harassing and grooming a young, vulnerable, mentally unwell girl, using threats of suicide to control and hurt her. She begged him not to again and again over this period where he harasses her and is nasty and cruel. He succeeded in grooming her into affirming his suicidal ideation, he was the adult and conditioned a girl into affirming his suicidal ideation. Just because she’s an unlikable, superficial, emotionally stunted girl who lives in a fantasy land, doesn’t make her the guilty party. Abusive men commonly use threats of suicide to control and torture their victims, this is the same pattern.
Thank you for posting this, it’s really a good documentary :)) It’s maddening. His father beat his son. A son that needed love NOT discipline. I have twin sons now 30, the best men sons I could ask for ♥️ and NEVER have I hit them or allow anyone too. we went through their teen years without ANY problems physically or legally. They were allowed to be themselves to feel Comfortable talking to me about anything and everything without judgment only acceptance. Did they ever feel down, of course but thoughts of suicide no. Now I’m Not saying that you are a bad parent if your child does of course not but there are things you can do if you start right away to prevent it, in most cases. I strongly feel his parents also pushed him to commit suicide just as much as Michelle just in a different way. Of course HE was the one to do it but What I’ve seen in the new series and on here, was a son that wasn’t able to really talk to his parents and There was violence towards him from a young child, there was violence between the parents on both sides and extreme anger and negativity towards his mother from his grandparents on his dads side. They were thinking more about themselves and starting new relationships then theirs sons well-being when he so obviously needed them. And we know this from the show and from interviews with them, mostly I’m putting the blame on his father, not the mother, I think he was very afraid of him and really tried to please his father without getting anything back from him. Then there was the new wife step mom who was verbally abusing him following his fathers behaviour. It really was a very toxic environment for a young man. I really think he would have never even thought about suicide if he had a stable home life and the support from his parents that he so needed. Of course Michelle pushed him over the edge but he wouldn’t even have been on the Clift if it weren’t for his parents.(again mostly his father).
I disagree, my 15 year old daughter attempted to take her life by overdosing on her anti depression medication . I thank god she is still here with me. She is still struggling. As a parent I feel powerless at times. I will never give up on her and try to keep communication open. I’ve done everything and anything to get her help and I will never stop until she is happy again. Things happen in life. Some are very lucky and blessed to be able to go thru life with minor promblems and some are equipped mentally to deal with big problems. Key word is SOME. To say that a parent is responsible is the most hurtful thing I’ve read on RUclips so far. I’m very happy your children didn’t have mental health problems. I wouldn’t wish it on anybody. It’s very easy to judge and point fingers when you haven’t gone through it.
@@Livelovelaugh4201 she was talking about the fact that the father was physically abusive and the mother was not really in the picture to support him at all. In this case the father was to blame with the mother playing no role in really being there for him.
Agreed. My folks never struck me. Amazing this little girl is held responsible and not the dad. It was partly the dad's actions that left Conrad suicidal. If someone is gonna kill themselves , no one can stop them. To blame this girl is absurd.
And now for the hulu series....😢 im so heartbroken fpr this family amd for this boy who seemed in so much pain but such a gift to this world...i pray for all those struggling as he did that they also reach that understanding of their true worth amd ability.....
these comments are ridiculous. call her stupid and unwell, sure, but tell me clearly how she's "evil" and "got away with murder"? based on text evidence, she spent a year trying to convince him to get help and go to hospitals and talking him down. thats longer than most people would do at 16, and for someone who they hardly ever met or wasnt a close friend/family member. he told her that if she told anyone about his plans, hed hate her more than anything and appeared to like her less than she liked him (at some points, it reads like he was outright mean to her, but whats she gonna do? make friends that she clearly is unable to?). he'd attempted suicide 4 times already, researched how to kill himself even without her involvement. no blame for the dad who beat him until he was concussed? no blame for the mom who knew of these previous suicide attempts and didnt do more? these were people who were physically in conrad's life and couldve done far more than the girl over text. he spent days telling her that he was gonna kill himself on a certain night, he talked about death with her constantly, he only talked to her about his issues only after requiring her to never tell anyone else. does conrad have no agency in his life and death? is it michelle's fault that he never talked to his parents, that he never talked to his sister or friends? does it fall on her that he never called 911 or followed through with her attempts to get him to go to the hospital? she felt it was her responsibility to shoulder all his issues and burdens (not to mention her own) without either her parents or his parents stepping in. I had less problems than that when I was 16 (or whatever ages she was throughout their fling) and I still felt like all my problems were more than I could bear. if I had to deal with all my regular high school issues, Her issues, a suicidal boyfriend's issues, and no real friends on top of all that (plus having suicidal tendencies of my own, which people seem to forget she had), I probably would've killed myself. I have no idea how she didn't.
@@Coolrunning. More parents fault than anything. 4 other suicide attempts and no in-patient care? Physical and emotional abuse, neglect, no ongoing treatment? A person with a good support network couldn't be talked into suicide by a person they'd only met twice.
what i dont undersatnd is why they believed her text to the friends about telling him to go back into the car, knowing she was lying about a lot of things to her friends in other text messages. I dont think there's actually proof that she told him to get back into the car
I didn’t realise his father hit him. Yeah maybe a fight over drugs, drink, stealing it could get out of hand. But over a pan 😮no can’t comprehend that.
Those in this documentary who said she is not to blame with her coercion - what about Charles Manson? He instructed, planned, coerced family members to carry out murder. And he was held accountable, despite not physically being there for the murders. To me, this is the same. She could have got Coco help, a welfare check. Instructing and the callous texts - just evil.
I agree to some extent but that's apples and oranges. Manson was looking to start a war, frame people and there were 2 confirmed acts of multiple murder. He didnt tell people to kill themselves, he had them murder innocent people who had nothing to do with his "war". I think Michelle should have been put in an institution. It's not as simple as shes just "evil". I think she has a hard time grasping reality and needs some serious help. My mother committed suicide. It was her 4th time it was a success, but she didnt die right away and I had to have a hard conversation with my sister if we should let her go because what was going to change if she survived it again? Sometimes when someone is repeatedly saying they want to die over and over again you dont know what to do or say any more. That being said, michelle was very wrong and should have called his family, friends or the police. But maybe in her head she thought she was helping. There are no winners in this situation. A family is without their son and another family is without their daughter. It's a tragedy.
youre comparing a full grown white supremacist cult leader... to a mentally ill 16 year old friendless glee fangirl? do you also smoke crack? did you also miss the part in the doc where she spent a year trying to convince him to get help and go to the hospital and the fact that he told her that if she told anyone, he'd hate her more than anything? they were both unwell and she felt pushed to a corner. what she did wasn't right, but why not blame the mom who didn't do more to get her son help, especially given that he attempted suicide 4 times before michelle was even in the picture. that's ridiculous, calling her evil. all that and there is no record that she told him to go back in the car
She killed him. People that want to die don't reach out for help and he did, for two years. Any sane person, especially one who loved him like she claimed would've talked him down. Every day if need be. It's not even like he was cheating on her or something. (which wouldn't have made it any better of an excuse) This all started because she knew the attention and sympathy she would get if Conrad killed himself. She even had a last minute chance to help him and talk him down when he was having second thoughts. She could've told him. "You don't need to do this." "You don't want to do this." "I love you." "Please go home." Instead she said. "Get back in the fucking truck." I believe he would still be alive if he'd never met that sick, twisted, demented, pathetic excuse for a human being. I say she should've gotten at least 50 years. That way she wouldn't have a chance to accomplish anything she wanted to do with her life. Just like Conrad will never get to because of her.
you seem to be ignoring the fact that, based on the messages, she'd spent a year trying to convince him to get help and go to hospitals and talking him down. and he told her that if she told anyone, he'd hate her forever (and, based on what we know, she had no friends and lived in a fantasy world). and he'd attempted suicide 4 times already, not to mention spent several days beforehand saying he was going to die that night. that would be enough to drive me crazy and I'm well into my 20s. I have no idea what I'd do if I were 16 and just as alone as she was, but I doubt they'd be smart decisions. I was an awful 16 year old, but at least I was lucky enough to have friends. not everyone is that lucky or mentally stable.
and for someone to attempt suicide 4 times before text-dating some random girl, it's pretty likely he would've committed suicide with or without her help. if there's anyone to blame, it's his dad who beat him and his mom who didn't seem too worried that he attempted suicide 4 times!
Does anybody know how glee wrote Corey's death? Just curious because they never mention it. I also wonder if Michelle got the stuff about Alice from Glee as well.
@@ally8420 kurt from glee said about his character that it doesn’t matter how he died it’s sad and tragic or something like that and that’s all they said about it. Imo it was probably how he died in real life cause they didn’t wanna make something up since he just died before filming
Like they said she had been helping him for a long time so clearly she got fed up with having to solve all his problems and suffer with her own that she just didn’t care if he died
They make a huge deal of Conrad being suicidal for a long time. Yeah That’s important but let’s not forget that he got out of the truck because he didn’t wanna die and she told him to GET BACK IN. I’m sorry but that’s paramount. She knew she had a hold on him, she knew he was susceptible to her pushing different ways to kill himself. And when he changed his mind, she had him go back in and finish. She said shit like “you’re all talk” “you’ve gotta prove me wrong” and they’re trying to say that she was just helping him? She badgered and goaded him into it and m when he did it, she played the victim card. All you have to do is look at how she acted after he died, especially to his family. I can’t believe anyone could be on her side. If you’ve ever been suicidal, you know it doesn’t take much and she did the most.
there's no text evidence that she told him to get back in. she told someone 2 months after he died and she's known to make things up for sympathy. like that one person in the doc said, it's just as likely it was a manifestation of her guilt, thinking the idea that she didn't tell him she loved him enough = telling him to get back in. now I wouldn't say I'm anywhere near as mentally ill as she is/was, but I had a rough patch in high school where how I felt about something affected my memories of what happened. I have memories of insulting people to their face that never actually happened. it was a shitshow of a situation. and for someone who attempted suicide 4 times before, he was probably gonna commit suicide with or without her encouragement
Defending attorney is a pos for taking this case. I attempted when I was 15. Unless you have been there, making the final decision, you won't ever know how terrifying it is. I was so scared. I was scared. He was scared and he was scared because he wanted to be saved. I wanted to be saved. And I don't know if that necessarily meant that I wanted to live, but I didn't necessarily want to die. I just wanted to be saved. He had the chance to be saved.
Well he should have called his mom if he wanted to be saved. He knew if he called michelle she would help him finish the job. That is why he called her because he needed her support to do what he wanted to do for years. Michelle is not guilty of any crime.
Then he shouldn’t have spent two years grooming a vulnerable mentally unwell girl into affirming his suicidal ideation. Abusive men often use threats of suicide to control and punish their victims, this is on him.
I honestly think.. she said on the phone calls... if he didn't get back in... this would be another thing he failed at and to add it to his list of failures.
Before computers etc you spoke to your friends at school and then went home and didn’t see them till the next day, during the holidays I would go weeks without speaking to them. Now days you have 24/7 contact and so can feed off, be enticed, encouraged and propelled by comments coming into constantly. How many teenagers have committed suicide due to on line bullying. The law is far behind the electronic age, it no longer takes weeks for a hand written letter to cross the ocean, it’s all instant and it’s all constant. Conrad and Michelle feeding off each others negativity was relentless. The are no nights of non contact and quiet.,it’s all go go go. Social media is a a double edged sword. It has virtues but it can also be deadly. I’m annoyed I won’t live long enough to see if the world works out the internet international crime problems and the plastic waste problem. No sign of anything happening much yet.
They were both suffering. The decisions made in the end were wrong, but not criminal. I deeply feel for this young man and his family. However, Michelle was also dealing with more than she was able to cope. We should offer sympathy and understanding to both of them. They were still kids at that age.
your perception is distorted. It's a fact that everyone faces challenges and struggles in their daily life, yet we can still prioritize the well-being of others. feeling lonely, sad, or depressed is a common human experience, and many of us can overcome these obstacles. however, the key difference in her case is that she was seeking attention above everything else. her actions were driven solely by her desire to be the center of attention, rather than a genuine concern for others.
I was in the hospital this August I was having suicidal thoughts and ideations I told my family and my gf they were trying to make me feel better. If they would of told me to do it or encouraged my to die idk where I would be right now
2:45 How is anyone not seeing the (real) monster; his father? Like all and each of these suicidal young people have one single thing in common; utterly bad, moronic, vicious upbringing by their parents. If his son would've not commit suicide by himself, he would've probably become another mass shooter.. Why are the parents on all cases - not just this - on trial for completely mangling and destroying a person's - their own children for fuck sake - life?
if that's your take, you mustve been watching this doc with your eyes closed and ears plugged. she spent a year telling him not to commit suicide, while also being 16, friendless, and thinking this was her only real relationship in the world. what she did wasn't right, but if there's anyone to blame, it's the dad who beat him and mom who didn't do enough to help him after he attempted suicide 4 times beforehand. why does the blame fall squarely on his pen pal? clearly his parents don't want to blame themselves in any way
What she did was despicable and horrible, but I dont think it should have been a prosecution. Should it now be punishable by law, yes. But I dont think that the law should have punished her at the time. I see it as a flaw in the legal system.
There's so many Psychiatrists and all of them have a different Diagnosis and I also know that as a fact from seeing so many! who do you believe? the one you trust the most not the first one you see!!
I hope she doesnt become some mental health advocate when she gets out.. I hope the internet cancels her and she fades into nothing this is the last person who should get any media attetion once she is released.
What about a conspiracy charge? Suicide is the murdering of one's self. Seems like she conspired with him to commit the murder of himself. That seems perfectly legally clear to me. If she told him to.kill her parents and he did....well, it's the same liability
Hmmm.. involuntarily intoxicated leading her to believe she was helping him, but hiding that “help” at the same time when communicating with everyone else. If she truly thought it was helpful in her mental state how is she able to flip back and forth?
she was in a weird mental state. she was 16, hormonal, and mentally unwell. it's a fucked mix, but it can easily allow someone to believe 2 things at once: that she's doing the right thing And that no one can know (he already told her that if she told anyone, he'd hate her forever, and she's already a continent away from her right mind)
Yes? Angel's of death who think they are "helping" their patients by ending their suffering still know socially it's wrong and hide their actions/evidence, even if they have delusions that they are "saving people from suffering;" because they also delude themselves that they know better, and "society wouldn't understand the kindness" they are showing their patients.
I have been on the medication she was on it does not stop you knowing right from wrong a complete lie. She is guilty and got what she deserved. She is a cold narcissistic
you do realize that the same meds can affects 2 different people completely differently? that's why they have a list of symptoms that people COULD have, not that they WILL have. I have a friend who got prescribed a specific kind of adhd medication that gave him anxiety so bad he had multiple panic attacks a day, terrible insomnia, and made him lose his appetite, but I take the same kind and it actually helps me. is he lying when he says that the medication affected him differently that me? sometimes, shit happens and your experiences aren't universal. brains are weird and your reaction to those meds doesn't make you right and her wrong.
@@barbararoca27 yeah, she was sick. she was literally on medication. and there are no words to describe the crushing loneliness of being friendless as a teenager (been there, done that, cried myself to sleep and skipped school in high school just bc of how alone and sad I felt every hour of every day). but at least I was mentally stable. and at least I managed to find friends (or friends found me). clearly, she wasn't that lucky and she wasn't all there. it's no her fault that her brain wasn't wired correctly anymore than it was Conrad's fault that he was depressed and suicidal. some people's lives just suck ass and it's not their fault
Did she know his whereabouts? If she didn't tell him to get back in then I would see her still culpable for not ringing the emergency authorities when she had the chance.
so the girl who attempted suicide and probably was also depressed (given the medication) who spent a year trying to convince this guy not to commit suicide, but eventually concedes (but in her mind thinks she's saving him), is manipulative and evil? was it not manipulative on connor's part calling her his juliet and telling her that he'd hate her forever if she told anyone what they were talking about?
Not all depressed people are the same. Not all suicidal ideation is the same. The mindset of a depressed person with suicidal ideation is not even the same from moment to moment. Your understanding of this subject is too simplistic to be valid. I have struggled with depression and anxiety for more than 20 years and survived being suicidal and one really f-ing close call of am attempt. Some of the time you want help, but when the darkness is closing in and your depressed brain is lying to you that everyone would be better off without you, there are no thoughts of wanting help.
@@thehorriblebright you are deluded she told him to get back in the car when he got out and told him he could do it kill himself. You clearly are simple if you can’t understand what she did is wrong. So you think it was ok for her to do that? If someone was on a bridge you would tell them to jump or push them ?
@@thehorriblebright I have bpd and had it since I was 15 and I am 39. I would never tell a person who is going to commit suicide that they should get back in the car and they can do it. That is narcissistic. She is narcissistic she did it for attention. Even when she knew what he had done she still didn’t call an ambulance she is evil.
Why? It’s evident once she started Citalopram, her mania became worse. That’s the risk of any depression/anxiety/psych med. one may work, the other does the complete opposite. He could have been on the wrong medication but lied and told everyone else he was “great”.
@@kayell930 I am still not defending Michelle, but I will partially retract this statement. As someone who is currently on the wrong medication, I can confirm that it makes people worse sometimes.
conrad avoiding the suicide attempts which he talk about at night .i think he doesn't have the balls to die .but that final with 43 minutes call incident surely gives this case a turn . Conrad want to die but why he left a note and passwords and haven't delete msgs.
This girl killed him because I was Depressed and suicidal and I also had someone who loved me and when I said I was going to commit suicide I was taken to get help right away but if someone I loved had constantly pushed me to just go do it and get it over with I know I wouldn't be here today!! why would she want him to kill himself when she was suicidal also , why wouldn't she want to go with him if she loved him so much?? She wanted him gone to get him to stop bothering her, stoping him from her recovery , That's my opinion , I maybe totally wrong !!
that psychiatrist has some savior complex. Had Michelle been a black boy, would he had been so eager to defend her? I wonder also, what's his take on people who drive under the influence and provoke deadly accidents. Are they also innocent?
i am big with dying with dignity, and maybe if dying with dignity was a thing they wouldnt have to be out of their minds thinking thru taking their life... if this guy is suicidal, and I was his age, and he was intent on killing himself would be totally over it and would totally encourage them to do it , just get it over with, stop harrassing me about it ... I deff don't think she was guilty, and this was all very very bias
![Quando Rondo - Grow Up [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/8zFnCg3BO4Q/mqdefault.jpg)
i can't believe his father said he would do it all over again knowing that him beating his son exasterbated his depression and suicidal thoughts
Holy shit I know right? I know the look on that man's face all throughout the video and he's completely ashamed of what he's done to his son throughout his son's life. I know because my dad did the same thing to me.
That made me mad too.😒
@@Goodpizzaa I'm so sorry about your dad doing that to you. I'm glad you didn't hurt yourself🥺. You can use your experience for good, let them know that their hurt won't last for always and there are always brighter days ahead but if you do something to yourself, you can't come back to enjoy the brighter to come.💙👩🏽
@@nicolebrown1927.
Aka Mike Anthony Foster from Rockford, Illinois... Here we go with the lies of Mike Anthony Foster... *ALL FOR SOME EFFING YOU TUBE LIKES!!* You are pathetic "at best" 🤣😂
He the one that need to be in jail that's bs
At first his mom says she didn’t know that he was thinking that way and that he’s in a bad place, but now they’re saying he committed suicide 4 times!!! Like she should have been more careful.
You are very pretty.
* attempted but no, you’re not wrong.
My first thought was that.
it was said that he was getting help, seemed much better, and had mentioned that he never wanted to try again after his last attempt. but i see where youre coming from.
After 4 attempted suicide, as legal guardian, you would think that it would be reasonable to admit your child to psychiatric hospital for well-needed therapy under watchful eyes of many specialists. I cannot really understand the standpoint of Conrad's family members - perhaps because they seems to be a bit shady themselves - but his suicide, to the degree successfully conducted with Michelle's tenacity, became somehow suiting them well in a moment. He finally did what he was fantasising for years (so, statement made by Prosecutor that Conrad would be happy living now if not Michelle was just ridiculous knowing his mental health issues and life struggles) and that girl became a scapegoat for Conrad family's incompetency and lack of taking responsibility for the health/happiness of own child. Despite everything, Michelle - being deeply troubled herself, no doubts - she contributed to his successful suicide attempt, but trying her for manslaughter is just stretch of terrible miscarriage of justice seen across the USA for a long, long time. Pity.
"I was being a parent."
Weird.... I have 4 boys. I've never beaten any of them... Or given them a reason to batter me either.
I can't help but think Conrad was hoping Michelle would teext him back begging him not to.
That’s what he wanted people who have depression don’t want to die they want help.
she spent a year begging him not to commit suicide? am I crazy? how is it that so many people are complaining about this bit as if they didn't mention her trying to convince him to stop for like a year? am I in the twilight zone?
@@HalfFeythey are stupid, she was a victim herself.
@@HalfFey How do you know that though? I am genuinely asking. From all the text I found to read, she seemed to accept the idea eerily quickly, even somewhat romanticise his, then future death, by suggesting he would be her guardian angel, he would be happy in heaven, he would be her star, asking him for his last tweet to be about her etc Imagine discussing dying with a loved one, and their focus still being on themselves, e.g. you will be MY guardian angel, can your final tweet be about ME...That must have been so heart-breaking for him to hear. It must have affirmed that she didn't really care about him at all. They spoke of his death very calmly, in an almost excited manner, like he was gonna go on a long vacation or something. I don't know if you're in a twilight zone but I'm sorry to say that I believe you're very easily manipulated.
@@TimiDelta Have you actually read all the texts from 15 - 17 years old? She did try to talk him out of it for 2 years (it was 2 years, not 1) and it's only in the last few months that she started telling him to follow through and turning it into a weird glee fantasy.
She even tried to tell his friend that "he's still talking about wanting to die" in texts and his friend told no-one (before) Conrad's Tylenol attempt; his mother went on to refuse in-patient care after this, and that was his 4th suicide attempt!! Even after finding suicide methods on his computer. Which is just bizarre!
The texts they sent each other after Michelle was released from hospital for bulimia treatment are especially eye opening, though it was a constant in their texting; Michelle (for once) tried to talk about her mental health problems, and her hospital stay, focusing on how it really helped her to overcome bulimia, and he just ignored her said "I wish I had your problems" and went straight back to talking about how he wanted to kill himself. Through the thousands of texts I read, it really just looks like a completely one sided relationship where she would have to do all the emotional support, and he would either ignore, neg her, or talk about killing himself; and despite 4 attempts before his successful suicide he talks about having to steal his mothers credit card just to see a therapist. This case shows so much neglect from parents and "friends."
Had just ONE adult in Conrad's life sought medical care, and addressed the physical and emotional abuse from his father, stepmother, and grandfather, I really don't think he would have killed himself, even with Michelle's delusions.
i feel like the majority of people are erasing the fact that she was trying to convince him not to in the beginning. also no one is connecting the dots between her not calling 911 and him telling her he would hate her if she did. i can’t understand the “helping him” delusion that she was in, but i do understand the fear of someone you love hating you and walking away leaving you alone. it can be paralyzing. if she truly believed helping him die was the right thing, then it’s not even a choice. one leads to him being alive and hating her and the other leads to what she believes is his greatest wish and he would go knowing how much she loved him bc she helped. or i could be totally wrong and she’s just a sociopath who’s a very good actor. i just prefer to believe the first one
Do you understand that she had romantic feelings for Alice alongside her supposed love for Conrad? It is natural for someone who loves their partner to try their best to alleviate their suffering and sadness, so her initial help for Conrad is not something exceptional. It should be noted that she is 17 years old while Conrad is 18, and if she had better judgment, she would have immediately sought help for him, even if it meant risking his anger towards her.
Yea he really dragged her into his problems then when she helped him with his plan, it's her fault ?
If someone is gonna do it, no one can stop them. Her words weren't gonna ultimately decide his fate if he was serious about taking his life.
she's just a crazy bitch that caused his death at the end of the day
If we accept that that's true, then we may argue that cult leaders feel the same way when they inspire mass suicided. They may truly believe all their followers will go to heaven, they may truly believe it was for the best, none of it makes it any less influential or less harmful. If you're more afraid of dealing with the feelings of being hated than "someone you love" actually living and breathing, then you're a self-centred, self-indulgent, selfish narcissist, who loves and cares about nothing more than themselves and their own feelings. Cause a simpler way to put what you're saying, with less romanticising would be "I'd rather you die, than me feeling bad, myself". I think she succeeds in manipulating many of you, that's why people like her rarely fail with getting what they want. They know they're slightly more intelligent and slightly less emotional than you are. They can predict your thoughts and feelings but you are fully unaware of theirs because you cannot cope with the harsh reality that psychopaths are everywhere around us. She's a wolf in a sheep's skin.
@@xeclipse1791I mean, teenage love is weird. It's both incredibly intense but also very fleeting. You can be intensely in love with one person to the poiny where you think that you're going to be together forever- then a week later you're in love with someone else.
Then add in the bisexual element, I'm bi and it was beyond confusing as a teen. Even tho I hate alot of LGBT+ friends I still didn't really understand my sexuality until I was in my 20's. I was kinda like Michelle in that I had zero sexual experience until I was a senior in high school. All my other friends were dating/hooking up from their early teens so I felt very isolated, like there was something wrong with me and I'd surely die alone. It seems so ridiculas now but at the time those feelings were very real. I was incredibly desperate for any kind of romatic attatchment and ended up being preyed on by a predator who sensed how vulnerable I was.
But at least I had friends. Michelle had NO ONE. And the one person who she has any kind of relationship with is telling her that he is 100% going to kill himself and that if she tells anyone that he'll cut her off and hate her forever. And teens already are great secrect keepers, they are surrounded by sex, drugs, mental illness, teen pregnancy, secrect parties etc. Should she have told someone? Of course. But I'm not surprised she didn't.
That poor Conrad's father is a total POS!!! You NEVER punch a child, or let your gf call him names! If his son "took a swing" at him, he should have called the cops and let his son suffer a night in jail, if he wanted to "teach him not to do it again"!!
Its no wonder Conrad struggled with depression; my father was also a violent narcissist, I have experienced suicidal thoughts (not actively suicidal/ don't agree with the thoughts, but they are there,) having an abusive father destroys your mental health. The lack of remorse, lack of responsibility and the fact the abuser thinks hes justified is so gross. All abusers think they are justified. I blame the father for his suicidal ideation and suicide attempts (not saying Michelle isn't responsible for his final demise, but he was this way before he met her...)
@@gingerisevil02 I can relate to having a narcissistic father. Mine was just absent. Not having a healthy father figure growing up has done so much damage to his children
@@annemullen2457 I wish mine had been absent.
My Dad mentally and sometimes physically abused me growing up. He ruled with fear. It affects me to this very day. I'm 44 and on several meds for my anxiety.
He should’ve been held for his behavior towards his son
At the worst moment of his life, the moment he got out of his truck, he called Michelle, and she told him to get back in. I wish he had called anyone but her.
He called her because he had spent all that time grooming her to get that response. He knew he would chicken out and called her in order to get the support he needed to go through with it. He spent all those months making sure he had properly groomed her to get the "do it" he knew he needed. She was trained by him to give that response over and over and when he needed it he called her. She was nothing to him but one of his tools for his suicide plan.
@@J_Phillz And I feel like after all the times she said no, he kept grooming her till he knew her no would turn to a yes.
@@itsmyard absolutely.
@@J_Phillz
That is ridiculous. She made her own choices, he didn’t groom her.
@@57andstillkicking if you believe that then you must agree that he also made his own choice to get back in the truck. Therefore she is innocent.( I mean she was innocent all the time anyway, she didn't break any laws.)
I agree with the judgment: Roy attempted to stop the suicide and in that moment her choice was not to get help for him but to pressure him back inside the truck to die. I do believe that she honestly cared for him and in a twisted way was legitimately trying to help him find an end to his pain but it was still the wrong thing to do.
She's sick. Please don't try and paint her any other color.
@@akiramado9198 Simply calling someone "sick" is a gross oversimplification of the complexities that make people what they are and cause them to do what they do. She had problems but the case isn't as cut and dry as "evil bitch pushed innocent boyfriend to suicide".
What loved him she loves herself and especially now lots of attention
Omg
I disagree there’s no actual proof that she actually told him to get back in the truck except for the text to her “friend” which is was proven in court 90% of what she said to them were partial or total fabrications for attention. They were both desperately unwell mentally but ultimately she still had the ability and insight to have told someone he needed help and got him the treatment he so sorely deserved. That would’ve been love.
after watching the documentary, I strongly feel that she is a complete sociopath who was seeking attention all along. those who claim that she didn't deserve her sentencing or that she wasn't involved in Conrad's death are in denial. It's disturbing that she said "I love you" to him after he had taken his life, especially since she had coerced him into doing it. additionally, she lied to several of her supposed friends about Conrad, claiming that they had sex or that he had raped her. why would someone who loved Conrad make false claims about sexual assault? It's clear to me that she's a sociopath who was seeking attention.
I also find it frustrating when people claim that the messages encouraging Conrad to commit suicide weren't a form of coercion. just because they were exchanged over the phone from miles away doesn't mean that she isn't guilty. mental health is just as important as physical health, and it's wrong to trivialize it. a family lost their son, and people seem to forget that Conrad took his own life because she told him to get back in the car. It's obvious that Conrad loved her, so her words had a significant impact on him. If she had encouraged him to seek help or called the authorities, he might still be alive today. In my opinion, she should be held accountable for what she did and serve her time in jail.
A sick person can not help save someone
I agree with you that she is definitely a severe sociopath
I agree with conrad's aunt, when she said, anyone who loves someone truly will not encourage them to kill themselves " they would encourage them to get help. I agree wholeheartedly with her 💯
The mom even said the dad and his family had blood on there hands smh
his dad beat him until he got a Concussion, but somehow no one is including his dad as someone who played a role in why his son was suicidal.
when i read his texts ,i feel as if he was hoping she'd talk him out of it ,so sad ,that it was someone like her he had to cross paths with ,another normal female ,that "Loves" someone would try to talk someone out of suicide
That’s exactly how I take it as he’s hoping she will say no I love you so much don’t let this happen. It’s so sickening how she acted there is absolutely no excuse for her behaviour. She played a huge role in his death. So tragic
She did just that for the longest time. At some point she gave up and gave in to his mindset. I feel everyone, really everyone, involved is a victim of horrible circumstances and conditions. It's sad.
@@caitlynroberts8108 Or maybe he just unloaded his emotional/mental issues on her, on a girl who was not equipped to deal with it. Maybe he did want her to "understand" him. Maybe Michelle was also mentally unwell and not just the "villain" you portray her to be. She did try to talk him out of it, it didn't help, meaning he didn't want to hear it, or couldn't. Not justifying what she did of course, just adding another perspective.
Maureen Yes, she is not normal. So was he. They were both mentally ill kids who ultimately brought out the worst in each other. Also, she DID try to talk him out of it and then something clicked in her mind or she snapped. Not justifying her behaviour, just explaining. Just watch the film carefully, she DID try to talk him out and it didn't help meaning he actually didn't want someone to talk him out. Just turning your attention to something you missed in the doc.
@@mattgottesmann3514 Agree, also victims of mistreated mental illness, isolation, loneliness, shared delusions as well maybe.
It is not her fault that he wanted to commit suicide. But her encouraging it and telling him to do it, was wrong. Somebody died. There has to be a consequence. If she is disturbed and suicidal as well, why didn't she do it but encouraged someone to? She have him live her fantasy almost.
I also have to blame the parents on both sides. The Roys for their violence and the Carters for likely spoiling her and putting her on meds.
I'm in two minds about one particular thing. She asks him in messages in the final hours if he deleted the messages so she clearly was aware on some level that it was wrong and was seeking to destroy potential future evidence. HOWEVER he had said he deleted the messages and he hadn't. He also left in his notes to family the passwords to his phone and laptop. He would have to know if he didn't delete the messages and left his passwords it would put her square centre in the frame of blame for this. So on some level did he also feel what she was doing was criminal and wanted in his death for someone to be the ultimate villain? It's entirely sad and I feel most for his mother and sister. I hope they can find peace and healing.
I feel the same
@@amiraval4723 you realize nobody is the same how can you say she has no remorse 😒
@@amiraval4723 like you can say that to me it really did look like she did
@@amiraval4723 and clearly the judge saw it that’s why he didn’t give her a hefty sentence
@@bluisdead2034 my guy did you watch the whole documentary? just because she’s crying at the end doesn’t mean the judge gave her a shorter sentence nor does it mean she feels remorse. the judge literally stated “that this court does not nor should it allow any emotional response to this case to enter into its determination.” meaning her shedding a few tears didn’t make the judge give her a lighter sentence. it seems to me like she was crying cause she was found guilty.
17:20 "on july 2nd she begins to help him go to heaven"...that line really broke my heart
Suicide is an extremely complex process.
I'm not aware of the mental health support services available to individuals in the US, however I do understand that there is a lack of Public Health Service funding for most of the population.
Regardless of this Court's decision, or the opinions of people watching this case from afar, the most important focus should be on preventative action. Not just "awareness" rhetoric, but actual money to provide real care.
There should be recommendations that proper Community MH Services and inpatient treatment where necessary, are not a luxury for wealthy members of society.
They should be universally-accessible.
The Court's 3-part decision mentions that Michelle had a duty of care once Conrad had stepped out of the car and called her.
Is a 17yo a mandatory reporter?
On the face of it - yes, of course. She should have called police, she should have called an ambulance, but she didn't. There is a moral obligation to help those in dire need.
What is missing from this equation however, is the totality of their relationship, the dynamic, his representations to her about certain things and her to him.
The brief glimpse into their communications signalled the possibility that Conrad wanted her permission to follow through, and without having access to every message and reliable data as to what words were actually exchanged, it's impossible to know fully what occurred.
Her apparent capitalisation on his passing is bizarre, troubling and speaks to her state of mind, her coping strategy - whether she is guilty by public opinion as well as the Court's, or not.
Both sides made good arguments. However I do believe that the complexity of one's mental state at the time of action to take one's life is something that is almost entirely impossible for those who haven't attempted such actions, to fully comprehend. I am an individual with lived experience. I have lost friends to suicide, and I have spent hours on the phone getting police, fire and ambulance to the people I loved who were in desperate need.
Trial by media is devastating. Michelle should be receiving treatment in a psychiatric unit. If not to "rehabilitate her", than at bare minimum, to help shed light on what was real and what was an illusion.
It is awful for Conrad's family to be put on trial as well. But Domestic Violence is incredibly damaging. It is largely unreported, and given the evidence of the previous assault on Conrad, I believe it has significant importance in this case as well.
Although the legal system espouses rehabilitation, I don't believe incarceration in a regular facility is satisfactory to anyone's demand.
Perhaps it gives Conrad's father some peace, but his mother stated that "Michelle is unwell", and in her immense graciousness, Conrad's mother shows empathy for Michelle.
I really hope that all family and friends, everyone affected by this piece of history - because it's not just a story, it was Conrad's life - are getting love and support.
Your right
Still we don’t actually know if she did tell him to get back in. She made so much other stuff up. Maybe if she could only tell the truth and say no I didn’t tell him that I was just trying to sound dramatic to make friends.
I think she kinda knew that the cops were after her and send the txs to her friend telling her implication and that she actually told him to get back in the car. The was ultimately the evidence that sent her to jail. Haven’t her sent that tx we would never know for sure if she has asked him to get back or not.
I thought that, too. The prosecution framed it in the way like that was a text to him when it was a text to someone she wanted to be a friend afterwards.
I don't understand the verdict at all. If Michelle were guilty, then why are thousands of people who online bullied others to death (by telling them to kill themselves, no one cares, the world would be better without them) at people's worse and most vulnerable states of mind not found liable for their ultimate suicides? Furthermore, there is never evidence that Michelle told Conrad to "get back in" or finish what he started...none. I understand people's frustration to Michelle's not calling for help but it is not her burden to. It is immoral but not illegal for her to not call for help whatsoever. To me, it is as if the male judge input his own misogyny and his own idea of "femme fatale" in his final verdict.
Honestly, I believe her about the relationship with Alice. I think she just didn't want to be associated with her or admit to her mother that she had a thing for a girl at one point. The entire situation was too messy.
Some people have very desperate moments. If she felt the loneliness they say she felt, they both needed help. They failed each other. Their families failed them. All these kids she was talking to, failed them. Yes, she is just as responsible as he was. But she gets to live and he doesn't. She should feel the guilt of this the rest of her life. Hopefully she turns it around. I don't know that she should spend the rest of her life in prison, but I do believe some time is warranted. 6-7 years sounds fair to me. Hopefully her family and the system get her the help she needs.
Yes
I really do hope she gets help because the whole situation is just sad honestly
6 to 7 years without committing a crime, that sounds very wrong. I guarantee she feels horrible and that is all she deserves, the poor girl.
Prozac made me almost too happy. Weirdest experience I’ve ever had…
Wow, the father said he wouldn't have changed a thing about that beating. The old man on the stand makes me dislike and distrust the field of psychiatric treatments and diagnosis even more. He sounds crazy
Ladies and gentlemen. There are no winners and losers in a case like this. These two kids were both badly mentally ill, and without full control of their minds due to being on these meds. I’ve spent my life on these meds. As a kid, they fucked up my head. People want to call Michelle a monster. But she isn’t. She did something bad, but isn’t a bad person.
i wanna hear more about what his relationship with his parents are like. it seems his father was physically abusive and his mother was not paying attention. i’m sure they contributed far more to his death than a teenage girl he was never even with in person did.
Its such a complex matter where BOTH people were in the wrong. They manipulated each other. They make it seem as if he was forced to go, sure, there was influence but HE is the one who did it at the end of the day. They make it seem as if he was an innocent boy when he already tried to kill himself many times before and knew different methods on how to do it.
Right he’s not innocent 😒
@@bluisdead2034 He's not but it's still so tragic bc the world would be a better place with him in it. Those vlogs he did were pure honesty, and if he made a thing of doing a video diary like that he could've helped ppl he never met
@@MelancoliaI well they both guilty
@@bluisdead2034 sure but at the end of the day he chickened out and got out of the car and called her probably in hopes she'd talk him out of it but she pressured him to get back in and listened to his last breath. Yes he tried and knew ways but even I'm their texts she gave him ideas. look at all the ss of their texts she was guilty at the end of his life you could tell he just wanted her to tell him to stay. regardless if they're both guilty he is dead.
@@mickayla9879 no it’s all him
Oh that poor sweet doctor...
This guy used her so much. She used him to to re-create this fictional love story but he 100% used her in constant reassurance of everything for 2 years when she was completely unstable herself.
Maybe one of these sets of parents should have said hey get off your fucking phone
Yep, I agree. He was doing to Michelle what she was doing to her school friends. Doesn't excuse what she did, but they were two messed up teenagers causing each other to lose their grip on reality.
Yeah
Michelle should have never went to jail for this. She was a delusional teenager and she was portrayed like some cold calculated adult and that is just not reality. Conrad tried to commit suicide multiple times before and told Michelle to support him in the suicide and Michelle herself was delusional. I put the blame on the parents. They're the adults in this situation, they're the ones responsible for his actions
The argument that Conrad was manipulating and lying to Michelle to make her “believe she’s helping him” is so problematic beyond words. As someone who suffers from depression & anxiety, I understand where Conrad is coming from so much. He’s alone, he’s desperate, he clings to Michelle because he believes she’s the only one he can talk to. He is NOT trying to manipulate her. In her own way, maybe she did feel like she was helping him, but the way she acted after the fact just goes to show how attention seeking she was.
@@maybeen9294 okay I don’t doubt that they both needed help, but that’s not an excuse for what Michelle did. Yes, his father played a part, but Michelle planned this, she carried it out and she built a fantasy on herself where she was Lea Michele and Conrad was Corey. She even passed off quotes from Lea/Rachel as her own. She was messed up, but she took full advantage of Conrad’s mental state.
@@GabiJonas93xoxo it's not an excuse for michelle, but it is an excuse for Conrad? Help me understand your logic because it isn't making any sense.
@@concernedcitizen4933 He's dead genius. What, you want to send him to jail too?
I agree and if she loved him she would talk him out of suicide not encourage it.
@@fatpinkteddy she did try to talk him out of suicide. it was established that she tried talking him out of suicide for a year before eventually conceding
What a clusterfuck. It's worrying because the greater commentary here is about how dysfunctional society has become. Despite all our progress with technology we have severely dysfunctional children growing up in a world humans are not well adapted for. We have no idea how bad things like relationships over texts can mess with us, what it can do to young people to get bullied online or use these things as substituions for real friends and affection, not to mention the dangers of SSRIs and the suicide they can cause. If you look up where Michelle lives it's this very affluent neighbourhood, these are middle class people with very comfortable lives and yet there's still severe depression and suicide. More than anything this should be the greater lesson here.
His father gave him a concussion 😕
Every time Conrad tries talking about himself, she gets bored with that subject and shifts it to her--EXCEPT when he talks about "us" (which includes her, after all), or killing himself. Those were the only ways he could hold her attention.
Hmm, so their "love" story/his death became, literally, her entertainment medium. Conrad was desperate to keep her listening. I don't think even Michelle realized how effective her self-centered personality was, when it came to achieving her goal. Things just followed their natural course.
That's not to suggest she's NOT guilty af, just noting the interesting confluence of a selfish girl + a boy who bored most people, but needed attention.
" well she just told him to, he chose to. " they are forgetting to take into account that she literally helped him find methods to kill himself. hell he even sent her a picture of the generator. she told him when to do it where to go. thats assisted suicide. thats like an accomplice in a bank robbery, all her actions if directed towards robbing a bank, would be jail time. and at that point. with her telling him to just do it already. bombarding him with questions everyday with when are you, why havent you. helping him find ways to do it. the when. the where. its manslaughter. ALSO, not to mention she didn't even call the cops when she KNEW he died. and even if she couldn't distinguish right from wrong, that doesnt mean its excusable. she should get time. at the very least sent to a mental hospital to help her deal with her shit. she should not go free.
Assisted suicide isn't illegal in that state
She knew it was wrong it’s not assisted suicide it was encouraging an already depressed pe who needed help she forced him and showed no frigin remorse and call no one she is evil
I think it’s bullshit that she’s being sentenced, social scrutiny should be as far as that goes.
Well...the b**ch had always wanted attention, so she certainly got what she was looking for.
@@CaptainChapintrue, she is more of a victim.
Conrod used her, he groomed her and created her as a villain in his victim shit story.
I would’ve broken that vow and told someone and not keep it to myself and watch someone die let alone encourage him. I would rather be hated and not spoken to ever again then having blood on my hands. Involuntary intoxication, what a bunch of BS. Trying to find any excuse so she can get a lesser sentence. I would never blame this on her taking medication. She was desperate for attention and she found the best solution. She didn’t care for Conrad no matter how many I love you’s she sent him.
This is ridiculous. Like saying a parent or spouse is responsible for someone overdosing on drugs if they bought or supplied it for them. Should they be held responsible for the death?? Was this girl a little crazy? Yes definitely. But we have to take responsibility for our own actions. We always want to place the blame on other people. Her actions were morally wrong that is it. The parents should take some responsibility in this. Also, he attempted this multiple times.
True
“Certainly wouldn’t wanna date her next” 😆
41:07 in that moment I felt sympathy for how alone she was
Hm, this doc has moved me to the other way. The person intent on killing themselves ultimately makes that decision. She got out on good behavior anyway.
What a truly gripping and tragic case. A perfect American story.
She could have called the police the second he said he was going to kill himself or tell his mom. Im more upset about that then what she said to him
He did tell her that he would hate her if she tells anyone. They were both bad for each other.
@@omega8568 So fucking what? You love someone you want them to LIVE bc you want to have them with u for as long as possible. IDK that's just how I see it
EDIT: I really agree with you tho the secret toxic relationship just brought them both down, and it just shows this case, like so much is more complicated than it looks
@@omega8568 no cause if she actually really loved him she would want him to live. she would’ve called someone for help either way even if he did say he would hate her for doing so. when you love someone you don’t encourage them to harm themselves, you’d want to be with them as much as possible.
@@xeclipse1791, if messages can make you kill yourself you are really a lost case.
He was hoping she wouldn’t tell him get back in the car!
@RealmEnchanted maybe you should stop trolling and acting edgy on the internet troll! Stop acting like you know everything! You're ignorant about mental health and need to document yourself! Let's hope when you're at the edge yourself someone would push you even further.
Or maybe he called for, and got, the exact support he was looking for. Why would he think she would tell him to stop? If he wanted someone to talk him out of it, he would have called his mother, sister, aunt, etc.
@RealmEnchanted in that state of mind he wasn’t able to take control of his thoughts on his own sh encouraged him when he was so vulnerable suggestions he trusted her and she forced him to end his life she’s a monster
@@grangrampa832and she was high off mis-prescribed anti-depressants, don't think she was exactly in control of her thoughts either. I mean you're truly saying an 18 year old, an adult, should not be held accountable for their own actions and that a 16 year old in another state has more accountability for that 18 year olds life?
@@grangrampa832he spent two years harassing and grooming a young, vulnerable, mentally unwell girl, using threats of suicide to control and hurt her. She begged him not to again and again over this period where he harasses her and is nasty and cruel. He succeeded in grooming her into affirming his suicidal ideation, he was the adult and conditioned a girl into affirming his suicidal ideation. Just because she’s an unlikable, superficial, emotionally stunted girl who lives in a fantasy land, doesn’t make her the guilty party. Abusive men commonly use threats of suicide to control and torture their victims, this is the same pattern.
Thank you for posting this, it’s really a good documentary :))
It’s maddening. His father beat his son. A son that needed love NOT discipline. I have twin sons now 30, the best men sons I could ask for ♥️ and NEVER have I hit them or allow anyone too. we went through their teen years without ANY problems physically or legally. They were allowed to be themselves to feel Comfortable talking to me about anything and everything without judgment only acceptance. Did they ever feel down, of course but thoughts of suicide no.
Now I’m Not saying that you are a bad parent if your child does of course not but there are things you can do if you start right away to prevent it, in most cases.
I strongly feel his parents also pushed him to commit suicide just as much as Michelle just in a different way. Of course HE was the one to do it but What I’ve seen in the new series and on here, was a son that wasn’t able to really talk to his parents and There was violence towards him from a young child, there was violence between the parents on both sides and extreme anger and negativity towards his mother from his grandparents on his dads side. They were thinking more about themselves and starting new relationships then theirs sons well-being when he so obviously needed them. And we know this from the show and from interviews with them, mostly I’m putting the blame on his father, not the mother, I think he was very afraid of him and really tried to please his father without getting anything back from him. Then there was the new wife step mom who was verbally abusing him following his fathers behaviour. It really was a very toxic environment for a young man.
I really think he would have never even thought about suicide if he had a stable home life and the support from his parents that he so needed.
Of course Michelle pushed him over the edge but he wouldn’t even have been on the Clift if it weren’t for his parents.(again mostly his father).
I disagree, my 15 year old daughter attempted to take her life by overdosing on her anti depression medication . I thank god she is still here with me. She is still struggling. As a parent I feel powerless at times. I will never give up on her and try to keep communication open. I’ve done everything and anything to get her help and I will never stop until she is happy again. Things happen in life. Some are very lucky and blessed to be able to go thru life with minor promblems and some are equipped mentally to deal with big problems. Key word is SOME. To say that a parent is responsible is the most hurtful thing I’ve read on RUclips so far. I’m very happy your children didn’t have mental health problems. I wouldn’t wish it on anybody. It’s very easy to judge and point fingers when you haven’t gone through it.
@@Livelovelaugh4201 she was talking about the fact that the father was physically abusive and the mother was not really in the picture to support him at all. In this case the father was to blame with the mother playing no role in really being there for him.
Keep in mind that you are watching a television show. The creators took many liberties "recreating" what went on at home. It's not a documentary.
Agreed. My folks never struck me. Amazing this little girl is held responsible and not the dad.
It was partly the dad's actions that left Conrad suicidal.
If someone is gonna kill themselves , no one can stop them. To blame this girl is absurd.
And now for the hulu series....😢 im so heartbroken fpr this family amd for this boy who seemed in so much pain but such a gift to this world...i pray for all those struggling as he did that they also reach that understanding of their true worth amd ability.....
these comments are ridiculous. call her stupid and unwell, sure, but tell me clearly how she's "evil" and "got away with murder"? based on text evidence, she spent a year trying to convince him to get help and go to hospitals and talking him down. thats longer than most people would do at 16, and for someone who they hardly ever met or wasnt a close friend/family member. he told her that if she told anyone about his plans, hed hate her more than anything and appeared to like her less than she liked him (at some points, it reads like he was outright mean to her, but whats she gonna do? make friends that she clearly is unable to?). he'd attempted suicide 4 times already, researched how to kill himself even without her involvement. no blame for the dad who beat him until he was concussed? no blame for the mom who knew of these previous suicide attempts and didnt do more? these were people who were physically in conrad's life and couldve done far more than the girl over text. he spent days telling her that he was gonna kill himself on a certain night, he talked about death with her constantly, he only talked to her about his issues only after requiring her to never tell anyone else. does conrad have no agency in his life and death? is it michelle's fault that he never talked to his parents, that he never talked to his sister or friends? does it fall on her that he never called 911 or followed through with her attempts to get him to go to the hospital? she felt it was her responsibility to shoulder all his issues and burdens (not to mention her own) without either her parents or his parents stepping in. I had less problems than that when I was 16 (or whatever ages she was throughout their fling) and I still felt like all my problems were more than I could bear. if I had to deal with all my regular high school issues, Her issues, a suicidal boyfriend's issues, and no real friends on top of all that (plus having suicidal tendencies of my own, which people seem to forget she had), I probably would've killed myself. I have no idea how she didn't.
Naaa it was her fault completely
@@Coolrunning. More parents fault than anything. 4 other suicide attempts and no in-patient care? Physical and emotional abuse, neglect, no ongoing treatment?
A person with a good support network couldn't be talked into suicide by a person they'd only met twice.
Some of these people are talking as if children can’t have npd and bpd and other disorders like that when they very much could.
what i dont undersatnd is why they believed her text to the friends about telling him to go back into the car, knowing she was lying about a lot of things to her friends in other text messages. I dont think there's actually proof that she told him to get back into the car
She encouraged her friend to do what he wants......... no crime there.... "God gave us all free will"
At the end. We ALL have a choice.
I didn’t realise his father hit him.
Yeah maybe a fight over drugs, drink, stealing it could get out of hand. But over a pan 😮no can’t comprehend that.
Those in this documentary who said she is not to blame with her coercion - what about Charles Manson? He instructed, planned, coerced family members to carry out murder. And he was held accountable, despite not physically being there for the murders. To me, this is the same. She could have got Coco help, a welfare check. Instructing and the callous texts - just evil.
I agree to some extent but that's apples and oranges. Manson was looking to start a war, frame people and there were 2 confirmed acts of multiple murder. He didnt tell people to kill themselves, he had them murder innocent people who had nothing to do with his "war".
I think Michelle should have been put in an institution. It's not as simple as shes just "evil". I think she has a hard time grasping reality and needs some serious help. My mother committed suicide. It was her 4th time it was a success, but she didnt die right away and I had to have a hard conversation with my sister if we should let her go because what was going to change if she survived it again? Sometimes when someone is repeatedly saying they want to die over and over again you dont know what to do or say any more. That being said, michelle was very wrong and should have called his family, friends or the police. But maybe in her head she thought she was helping.
There are no winners in this situation. A family is without their son and another family is without their daughter. It's a tragedy.
youre comparing a full grown white supremacist cult leader... to a mentally ill 16 year old friendless glee fangirl? do you also smoke crack?
did you also miss the part in the doc where she spent a year trying to convince him to get help and go to the hospital and the fact that he told her that if she told anyone, he'd hate her more than anything? they were both unwell and she felt pushed to a corner. what she did wasn't right, but why not blame the mom who didn't do more to get her son help, especially given that he attempted suicide 4 times before michelle was even in the picture. that's ridiculous, calling her evil.
all that and there is no record that she told him to go back in the car
The farher should not hit Conrad.he is contributed,too.
She killed him. People that want to die don't reach out for help and he did, for two years. Any sane person, especially one who loved him like she claimed would've talked him down. Every day if need be. It's not even like he was cheating on her or something. (which wouldn't have made it any better of an excuse) This all started because she knew the attention and sympathy she would get if Conrad killed himself. She even had a last minute chance to help him and talk him down when he was having second thoughts. She could've told him. "You don't need to do this." "You don't want to do this." "I love you." "Please go home." Instead she said. "Get back in the fucking truck." I believe he would still be alive if he'd never met that sick, twisted, demented, pathetic excuse for a human being. I say she should've gotten at least 50 years. That way she wouldn't have a chance to accomplish anything she wanted to do with her life. Just like Conrad will never get to because of her.
Well said
Very Well Said Very Well Said
Totally agree and people defending her have no clue about mental illness. People with mental illness don’t want to die they want help.
you seem to be ignoring the fact that, based on the messages, she'd spent a year trying to convince him to get help and go to hospitals and talking him down. and he told her that if she told anyone, he'd hate her forever (and, based on what we know, she had no friends and lived in a fantasy world). and he'd attempted suicide 4 times already, not to mention spent several days beforehand saying he was going to die that night. that would be enough to drive me crazy and I'm well into my 20s. I have no idea what I'd do if I were 16 and just as alone as she was, but I doubt they'd be smart decisions. I was an awful 16 year old, but at least I was lucky enough to have friends. not everyone is that lucky or mentally stable.
and for someone to attempt suicide 4 times before text-dating some random girl, it's pretty likely he would've committed suicide with or without her help. if there's anyone to blame, it's his dad who beat him and his mom who didn't seem too worried that he attempted suicide 4 times!
it is disgusting she got off on only 15 months , she deserves the full jail sentence for what she did to him
She should've gotten a life sentence. She never called help for him or to his family about his plans.
that's it? that was the sentence? God their justice system is a fkn joke
Does anybody know how glee wrote Corey's death? Just curious because they never mention it. I also wonder if Michelle got the stuff about Alice from Glee as well.
They never mentioned how he died in glee
It’s mentioned in other interviews
@@gingerisevil02 ...what interviews?
@@ally8420 kurt from glee said about his character that it doesn’t matter how he died it’s sad and tragic or something like that and that’s all they said about it. Imo it was probably how he died in real life cause they didn’t wanna make something up since he just died before filming
That Dr was a terrible witness
Like they said she had been helping him for a long time so clearly she got fed up with having to solve all his problems and suffer with her own that she just didn’t care if he died
And honestly she clearly had a mental illness because she had no remorse in that court room , so doesn’t deserve all the hate she gets
They make a huge deal of Conrad being suicidal for a long time. Yeah That’s important but let’s not forget that he got out of the truck because he didn’t wanna die and she told him to GET BACK IN. I’m sorry but that’s paramount. She knew she had a hold on him, she knew he was susceptible to her pushing different ways to kill himself. And when he changed his mind, she had him go back in and finish. She said shit like “you’re all talk” “you’ve gotta prove me wrong” and they’re trying to say that she was just helping him? She badgered and goaded him into it and m when he did it, she played the victim card. All you have to do is look at how she acted after he died, especially to his family. I can’t believe anyone could be on her side. If you’ve ever been suicidal, you know it doesn’t take much and she did the most.
there's no text evidence that she told him to get back in. she told someone 2 months after he died and she's known to make things up for sympathy. like that one person in the doc said, it's just as likely it was a manifestation of her guilt, thinking the idea that she didn't tell him she loved him enough = telling him to get back in. now I wouldn't say I'm anywhere near as mentally ill as she is/was, but I had a rough patch in high school where how I felt about something affected my memories of what happened. I have memories of insulting people to their face that never actually happened. it was a shitshow of a situation. and for someone who attempted suicide 4 times before, he was probably gonna commit suicide with or without her encouragement
Defending attorney is a pos for taking this case. I attempted when I was 15. Unless you have been there, making the final decision, you won't ever know how terrifying it is. I was so scared. I was scared. He was scared and he was scared because he wanted to be saved. I wanted to be saved. And I don't know if that necessarily meant that I wanted to live, but I didn't necessarily want to die. I just wanted to be saved. He had the chance to be saved.
so glad you're still with us❤️ keep going!
Well he should have called his mom if he wanted to be saved. He knew if he called michelle she would help him finish the job. That is why he called her because he needed her support to do what he wanted to do for years. Michelle is not guilty of any crime.
Well...the b**ch had always wanted attention, so she certainly got what she was looking for.
@@concernedcitizen4933true, just bcoz he died and she is left behind, doesn't mean she is at complete fault and he is innocent.
Then he shouldn’t have spent two years grooming a vulnerable mentally unwell girl into affirming his suicidal ideation. Abusive men often use threats of suicide to control and punish their victims, this is on him.
Her lawyer and her got happy too quick 😂😂😂
I honestly think.. she said on the phone calls... if he didn't get back in... this would be another thing he failed at and to add it to his list of failures.
Before computers etc you spoke to your friends at school and then went home and didn’t see them till the next day, during the holidays I would go weeks without speaking to them. Now days you have 24/7 contact and so can feed off, be enticed, encouraged and propelled by comments coming into constantly. How many teenagers have committed suicide due to on line bullying. The law is far behind the electronic age, it no longer takes weeks for a hand written letter to cross the ocean, it’s all instant and it’s all constant.
Conrad and Michelle feeding off each others negativity was relentless. The are no nights of non contact and quiet.,it’s all go go go. Social media is a a double edged sword. It has virtues but it can also be deadly.
I’m annoyed I won’t live long enough to see if the world works out the internet international crime problems and the plastic waste problem. No sign of anything happening much yet.
They were both suffering. The decisions made in the end were wrong, but not criminal. I deeply feel for this young man and his family. However, Michelle was also dealing with more than she was able to cope. We should offer sympathy and understanding to both of them. They were still kids at that age.
Nah. That was evil on her part.
No way
your perception is distorted. It's a fact that everyone faces challenges and struggles in their daily life, yet we can still prioritize the well-being of others. feeling lonely, sad, or depressed is a common human experience, and many of us can overcome these obstacles. however, the key difference in her case is that she was seeking attention above everything else. her actions were driven solely by her desire to be the center of attention, rather than a genuine concern for others.
I was in the hospital this August I was having suicidal thoughts and ideations I told my family and my gf they were trying to make me feel better. If they would of told me to do it or encouraged my to die idk where I would be right now
2:45 How is anyone not seeing the (real) monster; his father? Like all and each of these suicidal young people have one single thing in common; utterly bad, moronic, vicious upbringing by their parents. If his son would've not commit suicide by himself, he would've probably become another mass shooter.. Why are the parents on all cases - not just this - on trial for completely mangling and destroying a person's - their own children for fuck sake - life?
Love the accents.
Trhis is so sad to watch. He should be a live if he didn’t meet this horrible person.
if that's your take, you mustve been watching this doc with your eyes closed and ears plugged. she spent a year telling him not to commit suicide, while also being 16, friendless, and thinking this was her only real relationship in the world. what she did wasn't right, but if there's anyone to blame, it's the dad who beat him and mom who didn't do enough to help him after he attempted suicide 4 times beforehand. why does the blame fall squarely on his pen pal? clearly his parents don't want to blame themselves in any way
@@HalfFeytrue
She is absolutely guilty. I'd have been happy to see her serve a longer term. I sincerely hope that she gets help.
2 sickies dont make a wellie
What she did was despicable and horrible, but I dont think it should have been a prosecution. Should it now be punishable by law, yes. But I dont think that the law should have punished her at the time. I see it as a flaw in the legal system.
The first part made me feel like conrad was the victim but the 2nd part makes me reconsider my perspective.
There's so many Psychiatrists and all of them have a different Diagnosis and I also know that as a fact from seeing so many! who do you believe? the one you trust the most not the first one you see!!
Her eyebrows....
I hope she doesnt become some mental health advocate when she gets out.. I hope the internet cancels her and she fades into nothing this is the last person who should get any media attetion once she is released.
The pressures of community gang stalking. Pay attention. What’s really going on in your community. God Bless.
I was manic on prozac… I was 21 remember it like yesterday.
What about a conspiracy charge? Suicide is the murdering of one's self. Seems like she conspired with him to commit the murder of himself. That seems perfectly legally clear to me. If she told him to.kill her parents and he did....well, it's the same liability
Suicide is the RIGHT and CHOICE of the one who’s life it is …
Murder is taking the life of another - against their will - they are NOT the same.
The Doktor 😮 give him self away he said Antidepressiva is a drug
Hmmm.. involuntarily intoxicated leading her to believe she was helping him, but hiding that “help” at the same time when communicating with everyone else. If she truly thought it was helpful in her mental state how is she able to flip back and forth?
I mean she knew other ppl wouldn't see it as "help" but that's not inconsistent with her believing she was doing the best thing for him.
she was in a weird mental state. she was 16, hormonal, and mentally unwell. it's a fucked mix, but it can easily allow someone to believe 2 things at once: that she's doing the right thing And that no one can know (he already told her that if she told anyone, he'd hate her forever, and she's already a continent away from her right mind)
Yes?
Angel's of death who think they are "helping" their patients by ending their suffering still know socially it's wrong and hide their actions/evidence, even if they have delusions that they are "saving people from suffering;" because they also delude themselves that they know better, and "society wouldn't understand the kindness" they are showing their patients.
prozac is in fact a drug prescribed.for bulimia.
I have been on the medication she was on it does not stop you knowing right from wrong a complete lie. She is guilty and got what she deserved. She is a cold narcissistic
are you also bulimic like she was? that's what caused the intoxication
@@yanks2661 yes I am. It does not cause that. It’s a lie she is narcissistic
you do realize that the same meds can affects 2 different people completely differently? that's why they have a list of symptoms that people COULD have, not that they WILL have. I have a friend who got prescribed a specific kind of adhd medication that gave him anxiety so bad he had multiple panic attacks a day, terrible insomnia, and made him lose his appetite, but I take the same kind and it actually helps me. is he lying when he says that the medication affected him differently that me? sometimes, shit happens and your experiences aren't universal. brains are weird and your reaction to those meds doesn't make you right and her wrong.
@@fatpinkteddyso why Conrad was a victim of medicine and she was not
@@castleold19 coz medication does not stop you from knowing what is right if you think it does then you are delusional
She just wanted to live her Glee fantasy.
Yeah she has no life! Borrowing life from a movie! Sick beyond words!
@@barbararoca27 yeah, she was sick. she was literally on medication. and there are no words to describe the crushing loneliness of being friendless as a teenager (been there, done that, cried myself to sleep and skipped school in high school just bc of how alone and sad I felt every hour of every day). but at least I was mentally stable. and at least I managed to find friends (or friends found me). clearly, she wasn't that lucky and she wasn't all there. it's no her fault that her brain wasn't wired correctly anymore than it was Conrad's fault that he was depressed and suicidal. some people's lives just suck ass and it's not their fault
She was sick and a victim
Nah the girl lying they had something going on i don’t think it was all fairy tail
Did she know his whereabouts? If she didn't tell him to get back in then I would see her still culpable for not ringing the emergency authorities when she had the chance.
EXACTLY
56:03 She thought she was gonna get off the hook here lol …
Much like the writings on the wall, in this case in the texts
She knew exactly what she was doing she is very manipulative and evil. People that suffer from depression don’t want to die they want help.
so the girl who attempted suicide and probably was also depressed (given the medication) who spent a year trying to convince this guy not to commit suicide, but eventually concedes (but in her mind thinks she's saving him), is manipulative and evil? was it not manipulative on connor's part calling her his juliet and telling her that he'd hate her forever if she told anyone what they were talking about?
@@HalfFey clearly you are delusional and people with bpd can be manipulative. Clearly you are attractive to her and know nothing about mental illness.
Not all depressed people are the same. Not all suicidal ideation is the same. The mindset of a depressed person with suicidal ideation is not even the same from moment to moment. Your understanding of this subject is too simplistic to be valid. I have struggled with depression and anxiety for more than 20 years and survived being suicidal and one really f-ing close call of am attempt. Some of the time you want help, but when the darkness is closing in and your depressed brain is lying to you that everyone would be better off without you, there are no thoughts of wanting help.
@@thehorriblebright you are deluded she told him to get back in the car when he got out and told him he could do it kill himself. You clearly are simple if you can’t understand what she did is wrong. So you think it was ok for her to do that? If someone was on a bridge you would tell them to jump or push them ?
@@thehorriblebright I have bpd and had it since I was 15 and I am 39. I would never tell a person who is going to commit suicide that they should get back in the car and they can do it. That is narcissistic. She is narcissistic she did it for attention. Even when she knew what he had done she still didn’t call an ambulance she is evil.
You can lead a horse to the river but you cant make ot drink.
The doctor trying to argue that medication is part of the problem pisses me off.
Why? It’s evident once she started Citalopram, her mania became worse. That’s the risk of any depression/anxiety/psych med. one may work, the other does the complete opposite. He could have been on the wrong medication but lied and told everyone else he was “great”.
@@kayell930 I can agree to that I’ve been on that medication for 2years now
@@kayell930 and I’ve been having terrible manic episodes hurting myself punch walls hitting myself in the head
@@kayell930 I am still not defending Michelle, but I will partially retract this statement. As someone who is currently on the wrong medication, I can confirm that it makes people worse sometimes.
kids on prozac ??!! wtf .....
No pity for her maybe it would be nice if someone said of course continue that your family might be sad but will get over it
Hey doc how would you feel if she did this to your child
conrad avoiding the suicide attempts which he talk about at night .i think he doesn't have the balls to die .but that final with 43 minutes call incident surely gives this case a turn . Conrad want to die but why he left a note and passwords and haven't delete msgs.
That's what I'm thinking, he wanted someone to hold the blame and go as a victim.
This girl killed him because I was Depressed and suicidal and I also had someone who loved me and when I said I was going to commit suicide I was taken to get help right away but if someone I loved had constantly pushed me to just go do it and get it over with I know I wouldn't be here today!! why would she want him to kill himself when she was suicidal also , why wouldn't she want to go with him if she loved him so much?? She wanted him gone to get him to stop bothering her, stoping him from her recovery , That's my opinion , I maybe totally wrong !!
that psychiatrist has some savior complex. Had Michelle been a black boy, would he had been so eager to defend her? I wonder also, what's his take on people who drive under the influence and provoke deadly accidents. Are they also innocent?
@RealmEnchanted lmao
People driving under the influence is not "involuntarily intoxicated". They would be voluntarily intoxicated, which is a crime. lmao
i am big with dying with dignity, and maybe if dying with dignity was a thing they wouldnt have to be out of their minds thinking thru taking their life... if this guy is suicidal, and I was his age, and he was intent on killing himself would be totally over it and would totally encourage them to do it , just get it over with, stop harrassing me about it ... I deff don't think she was guilty, and this was all very very bias
Sick bird like Michelle! You need a psychiatrist.
She was so relieved when she heard the sentence.
She was expecting much more.
I find it unfair.
the whole Glee correlation is fkng fkd.