Boy you hit it on the head! My 08 electraglide had 83000 miles on it. I got the HD engine programs 110". Ran me about 7500.00. The motor was about 4000. With a cam. The rest was extras like new clutch pack, drive belt, replacement of everything in the primary. Even had them do all bushings and even swongarm bushing. Runs, handles, and rides like new. Saved myself about 15000.00! What's not to like. Plus saved 6% tax on a new bike...like $1300.00.
If you've already put money into servicing and solid upgrades in a bike that you already know then yes it'd make sense if you want a bit more, I know my 1999 TC88 has a Timken left bearing and a crank that is good to run gear drive cams, extra cubes alone would be plenty for me.
I was wondering I have a completely Bone stock 2021 road king with the 107. I like it quiet however, I would like a little bit more out of it, so what I was wondering can I put a cam in that bike without tuning it, and without changing the air cleaner or the slip On’s & it do me any good.
@@frankparnell7931 I had my 110 installed the old 96 had a stage 1 kit. That also fit the 110 with Harleys torque cam. With the stock it's fine. Really moves for me and at 75 years old with hearing aides could I tell the difference with slip ons?
@@frankparnell7931 If you put a cam in you’ll need a tuner. They sell cams that don’t have a lot of valve train noise, generally those are power cams versus torque cams. Bassani makes a muffler that is decently quiet, and you’ll definitely want to put on a Arlen Ness $200 air cleaner and you can reuse the stock cover. I don’t know if they make a slip on I think it’s just the two in the one. You can also get a licensed tune from your builder.
I've owned twenty Harleys over 51 years, ranging from 61 to 80 cubic inches, none of them bought new or from a dealer, and with the exception of installing drag pipes and less restrictive air cleaners, every one was left box stock. And every one of them did the speed limit, and whatever more I needed. Not one of them ever blew up, and I kept alotta cash in my pocket.
100% spot-on. Anyone with ANY amount of maturity knows 75 lbs of Torq from a stock 88 is all a person needs. Anything more and you're just asking for trouble, both legal and financial.
Awesome dude! I'm contemplating it. My crank on my 2003 rk is way outta spec, it's spitting out oil somewhere. Is it 98 or 103? I would also make it gear cam. If I sell my bike as is ill lose 4 or 5k maybe or I keep it and make it run better and faster. Any advice?
"Any logical person that's good with their money would never even own motorcycles," had me spitting out my beer!! Basically any hobby is a big waste of money, but they keep you sane.
If you ride a bike for transportation, and don’t own a car, then a motorcycle will save you money…….however I can’t ride a motorcycle for just transportation, gotta have fun, thus money spent on gas is higher than just owning a truck
Toys cost a lot of money! It's worth every nickle to me. Kids and grandkids are happy, and I thoroughly enjoy all of the toys we have. I am truly blessed to be able to do it for us.
Fuel Moto converted my 88 to 98 overnight. I have before & after Dyno chart runs. Started with 62hp & 72ftlbs torque. Now I have 95hp & 111ftlbs & I can keep right up with anyone no problem. I was praying for 100hp but still the gains from the camshafts, ported heads & big jugs really pulled a lot of power & I can easily run premium pump gas without issue. PS my crank had zero issues, they said it was in great shape & well within spec. The builder said he built one & it's ok to beat the hell out of it 😅. I don't beat the hell out of my bike but I do ride it hard a bit
That's what I love to hear making my best judgement in promoting a product! I love to hear that! Overnight?! Really?! That's worth every penny right there and the fact they stood solid behind it saying give it hell!!
Wow! That is a serious power upgrade. I have a carbureted 88 in a 2000 Wide Glide. I love the thing. Need to do a tune up soon so I’m gonna swap out the cams a put a new air cleaner on it to give it just a little extra to it.
I’ve thought about replacing my 04 RoadKing several times over the years, but I can’t find anything else I’d rather have. I don’t like the stupid fat tires on the newer HDs. I prefer a five speed over a six. Besides, my RK and I have been all over this country together. All those memories count for something to me.
That's the best part of owning a Harley, you're limited to your imagination (and wallet) in making your bike whatever you want, the combinations are endless.
It’s absolutely worth it if you love your old bike. On my 2000 dyna I used the S&S 98” big bore kit, S&S 89cc heads, S&S .585 cams w/ oil pump and cam chest, 42mm mikuni carb, fueling breathers, Daytona twin tech ignition, and of coarse a big ol’ air cleaner. All that totaled round $4900 and did it all myself. Bike is like brand new and I promise you that sucker f***in RIPS !!!!
Have a '98 FLHTCUI. Had it 20+ yrs. Redone motor twice. Last yr we tore it down and put a modified 4 stage + changed to 6 speed, got rid of fuel injection to a carb, complete rockford fasgate system/amp. Had progressives shocks for a few now. Spent aprx $15 K. Rides better then new!!!!!cause it's mine with my blood, sweat.....and I prefer the older look vs the new sleeker(smaller) everything AND I know where and what my baby has been through. Buds think I'm nuts but I'm money ahead and crusin loud, strong, reliable and stylin!!!!! Don't care what anyone says. Locktight EVERYTHING on old bikes n ride!!!!!!!!!
I got my 99 roadking 88" to a 98" this bike is awesome. I didn't stop there i went with new wheels, bars, custom paint. Never really added up how much i have spent but yes definitely worth it to me. Getting 105hp 108tq
I don’t see the point in doing any upgrades to a TC - might as well just get an M8 and put the money into that - it will generally produce way more power, run cooler, less vibration, less issues (post 2020).
Just went through all this. Spent the last 2 years tormenting myself as to whether to rebuild my 88 or buy another bike with a 103. I figured I'd save money just buying another one. However!!! all the things that I wanted to do to the 88, I now want to do to the 103. I really wish I'd rebuilt my old bike. Besides, for me, working on a bike is just as much fun as riding it.
First, I wouldn't own an older Harley unless I could do at least most of the work myself. Is it worth the money? That's a personal call. That is a great price on that kit. If I had, or bought, a TC88 that needed a top end job, I would absolutely consider that kit. If you can install it yourself, I think it would be well worth it. Paying for labor makes it a tougher call for me.
I have a 2005 Ultra that when I bought it I didn’t know about the cam chain tension spring! So at about 19000 miles I had gear cams put in. It was ok but it still was not very fast. So at about 40,000 miles I had the engine rebuilt with a S&S 97 kit, sent the heads to Short Block Charlie in AZ to do his Scottsman head work, sent the crank to Dark Horse to be balanced, welded and timkin bearings, add one Baker DD6 transmission, S&S 3 stage oil pump, cam chest, 570 cams. I may have missed a few things but now I have a reliable Ultra with 110hp/118 torque. Yes it cost $$$ but now I have a bike that most HDs can’t catch, gets better gas mileage than stock and I’ve owned for almost 20 years.
That Harley you show at the start is the exact bike I have. Paint and all. 2002 Electra Glide with carburetor. My cam chest and carb was rebuilt 3 years ago. That's all it needed. I spent $1200 having it done at a shop. I purchased Fueling and S&S 510 cam components. As much as I love my Harley, I would probably opt for a newer used bike before I would sink $6k into her at this point.
It’s totally worth it to me. But I can do most of my own work too. I’ll be doing this to my 05 Dyna FXDI. Fueling cam chest upgrade, stock jugs bored and head work done by Hammer Performance (which you covered in a previous vid).
I have also done the same upgrades for my 04 FXSTSI, Feuling Cam Chest kit 525, 06 heads ported and cylinders punched out to 98ci from Hammer. (they had a great deal for the combo work). I just had my cylinders shipped back. Installing these after the new year. yahoo.... Beats buying a newer used bike. Great videos as well... Keep em coming...
I did exactly this - bought a 2005 road glide in medium condition with only 5k miles on it about a year ago. I took the money I saved, and had an s&s 98 cylinder and piston kit installed , s&s pushrods, fueling lifters, feuling cams ,timken cam bearings , ceiling hp+ cam plate and oil pump , with a good 2-1 exhaust, and a k&n air filter- and I came out with about 4000 parts and labor total. Do for 9k I got a 2005 road glide that is smoking many of my friends 96 and 103s , and I’ve beat a couple of stock m8s at 100/103 hp and torque!
What is even cheaper, is buying an already upgraded 2002 TC with a stage IV kit on it. I payed around €7500, incl. shipping and import tax from the USA to Netherlands. Put an other €2.500 into full paint job, new saddle and a lot of stainless stuff, new shocks front and back. For €10k the perfect bike. 107hp and 162nm torque on the dino
Great video man, as always... I bought a used 2004 road king classic that had a 95" kit already installed, 525 cams, rinehart full exhaust, performance machine air filter, pc5, t bars, which, I hated and had changed later, for 5500$. It had 36 thou miles on it and IA gonna be 20 years old tomorrow, lol. Now my buddy has a 2011 street glide and had the 120r harley motor put in it, spent 11 grand doing this with exhaust and stretched bags, new front wheel, totally decked out and is an awesome bike, when went out riding i kept up with him the entire time and he was on the gas....I come to the conclusion the the stock 120r motor was chocked out lifetime cause he should have a smoked me all over the place. I think I'll keep my 20 year old 95" king and be happy with what I have....
I took my 2003 heritage to 95" with 509 cams. Ran so good i beat on it and tweaked the crankshaft. Ended up doing it all over. Crank. Ballancers. Cam chest. 98". Portedheads. Redshift 528 cams. 90hp. 104 torque. 34 tooth front belt pully, no longer looking for another gear. Its a keeper.
I'm happy with my 2005 dyna super glide custom just the way it is. Just cruise around. Fast enough for me. It's got the great sound and looks. No need to increase performance. Has'nt let me down yet and done 53000 miles. Cam chain adjusters are still good.
100% worth it. I am loving my 05 Road Glide and especially enjoy going through the process of "making it my own". Currently running the Fueling hydraulic tensioner conversion with 525 cams which has made an incredible difference. In 6-12 months, I'll be doing the 98" or 100" big bore, change out my current heavy breather for one of my own liking, stretched bags, LED lighting, Tab Zombie 50 Cals, and maybe some more aggressive cams to replace my 525s. Is it a money pit? Sure - But I have wasted money on much less enjoyable things in my youth. Can't beat the joy you get from knowing each and every part of your 2-wheeled wife LOL
My ‘03 FatBoy is coming up on 35k miles. It still runs like a champ but I know I’m going to have to do an upgrade soon. This gives me some good ideas where to start.
@@Tomcat8911my 02 has 70,000 miles, original owner installed the 95" kit in it, but you are correct keep fluids changed and keep a eye on the cam chain tensioners ( I had to replace those once already) and she'll run like a new one! Love my old bike, good luck and stay safe
@@Tomcat8911I hear ya brother, they're so far outta my league in price now days it's crazy, I've got everything on mine I need and no monthly payment and I'm fine with that!
@GixxerFoo ...how do you think short stroke motor makes a difference? Doesn't a stroker crank produce more torque?...maybe not so much top end but you can do that with a cam
I converted my 2002 FLTH to 98. Hammer Performance bored my cylinders,$640, Impact head work,$650, intake ported $75 all needed gaskets and support made my build very easy. Had already up graded cam plate to S&S, cams bearings and to make it be all it can be added Baker 6 speed tran. Sure makes it a good interstate ride.
Doing this upgrade myself. I ported my heads myself and the local Harley guy bored my jugs for $45 a piece and added new oversized kibble white valve with s&s springs that go with the 585 cams. He recommended the cp carillo 10.75 pistons. Might have to throw a splash of race gas in the tank. We’ll see.
Absolutely!! Thank you for saying that!! Even the M8 isn't that bad, honestly probably simpler than the Twin Cams. Harley did lower the cost of a cam swap going back with a single cam design.
@@GixxerFoo I’ve been riding a long time. Worked in the industry for several years. I’m a firm believer that a used Harley is the way to go. Last spring I did something I said I’d never do, I now have a low km 2013 FXDWG. They are cheap up here.
I had a guy redo my 2003 Electra glide standard. Porter and polished the heads. Woods 777 cam mikuni carb thing runs great. Then I put a baker 6 speed in it upgraded to PM brakes and progressive suspension front And rear 1 inch over. Then I really overdid it with some BST carbon fiber wheels and lyndale rotors. Man am i happy with it I can't stop riding it!
Gixxer, i think a major point was missed on this one. Maybe not compare a brand new scoot. But a used 2018+ would be applicable that may have some accessories already. And rebuilding engine makes the mileage a moot point. I have dumped some money into my 07. But dont think i will split cases timken bearing the case, true and weld the flywheels or repalce them, then big bore it. Really the only correct way and true comparison. The power, reliability and value with a M8 vs Twin cam is beyond this video. For what a cam can do for a M8 you would have to spend 4k on twin cam to achieve comprable numbers on the dyno. Now as far as styling and what you like sentimentally is not a consideration here. Just dollars and cents.
My thinking is exactly in line with yours 👍Particularly if you go out and buy someone else’s bike, and then spend all that money on it in the Twin Cam proposition. It’s still an old bike with old suspension and old pretty much everything, no matter how you slice it and sugarcoat it. Now, if you already owned a Twinkie or Evo bike, well, different story then, because it’s your bike and you know, and it may, indeed have sentimental value to you it. If not - and with all due respect to the Gixxer - the math simply does not add up. Just the market value notion alone, would give me pause. Because, at the end of the day, if you look at the possibility to maybe selling your bike at some point, the market is not going to value your hop-up. In fact, it might very well DE-VALUE your scoot even further because of it, i.e. you’ve been (in their view) flubbin’ with it. And nonetheless, you will be, financially speaking, absolutely buried in that bike to where you completely priced it out of the market. Another cost consideration in buying a used bike from someone you don’t know is the fact that you will spend an enormous amount of time chasing after that bike, dealing with every dreamer on the planet that thinks his bike is worth X when it ain’t, yet he needs to take months upon months to find out for himself what the actual market value is, at which point, when he’s finally got his, umm “education,” he’ll likely sell it to somebody else because you’re not in the picture anymore trying to educate him. Time is money, and that frustration and time sink is enormous. From Southern California ~ Ride Forever! 🦅
I big bored my 2002 Dyna and never once felt like or believed I should have bought a new one instead. Once they put out the 6 speed transmission I even found one to put in my Dyna and instantly I had in terms of muscle and get up and get it the same thing on my paid for 02 the same thing others were getting with a whole brand new payment book for a new bike. And that 02 Dyna is still as eye appealing as it was the first time I ever saw it. It has gone through several incarnations in its 21 years but still turns as many heads and provokes as many thumbs ups as it ever did. No payment book, no big deal!
I have my 2003 fat boy already with the s&s cam plate, oil pump a 509 geared cams.... I just get a set of nos heads Ported, including the manifold and im considering to go for the 95 big bore Kit, to keep it as reliable as possible.
@@GixxerFoo what's your opinion concerning the 97''?. My mechanic told me that the 95'' support better the heat temperature. My Ported heads are done for a 95" or 97" bore with less than 10. Compression ratio
I believe yes, I took my 2000 Heritage Board the cylinders went with 10.50 to 1 Wisco pistons Screaming Eagle CNC ported heads and a S&S TC cam plate and S&S 583 Cams and S&S flywheels New flywheels due to crank shift. all I can say is WoW! I did the work myself and saved a ton of $$$
Yes for sure did my engine 10 years ago to a 107 now changing out my fuel injection and going 6speed this winter. I’m the original owner of 2001 roadking
Run out is gonna be high especially on a 2003 or newer. You can keep the stock cam plate and roll with it. Feuling makes a billet OE plate that allows for some high runout.
I've never been hard on my bike, never burned the tire off, and never dogged my throttle to get around anyone. All that being said, I'm looking at a 120 to drop in Old Red with a 6 speed. I bought a Springer front end and I'm working on getting all the necessary parts to finish that. I found a 2-2 with crossover for my exhaust. I'd like to add air ride shocks. Upgrade to LED all the way around. Total parts estimate is $12-15k but it will be what I've always wanted...
As a guy that keeps vehicles forever, I'd say yes to the upgrade. I've got an 04 road king that I bought new, its got 46k miles on it now. I bought the cam plate upgrade kit and power vision tuner from fuel moto about 5 years ago with 28k on the bike, Andrews 21N cams and a 2 into 1 exhaust, did the work myself, runs great. Lately, I'm not sure if I'm hearing things out of the cam chest, like a loose chain when it warms up, but I'm considering opening it up to check the state of everything as I ride it pretty hard...also thinking a big bore kit now too. My local indy, a personal friend, is an S&S dealer and he'd want to get me into a Sidewinder kit if I don't do something else. They do a lot of different kits, you got any comments (or a video) on the sidewinder kits? I'll have to say that without ear plugs, the top end tick can be aggravating, I've even done the rocker shaft shims, but I like the 21N cams, they were supposed to be the better profiles for heavy baggers. I stayed away from the Woods cams because they were/are notorious for noise due to the steep ramps. It seems the road kings are the worst for top end noise as the windshield reflects all the noise back into your face. Thanks for the videos! The other thing I wanted to comment on is the lifters and the big price the comes with them for "Harleys". Everyone should know that they're small block Chevy lifters and aren't anything special. I got mine through the V Thunder division of Competition Cams. I see that they're a little more than when I got them, but I remember paying less than 50 buck for a set.
04 Road King just hit 17,000 miles owned since 2027 when it had 8000 miles. 88 Stage 1 ( nothing fancy ) except for the original blue two-tone paint with white walls and open K+N long shots.
I've messaged you before about my 2005 Fatboy. In 2019, I had a Stage II upgrade done with everything you usually suggest, using mostly aftermarket parts - cams and bearings, cam plate/oil pump and hydraulic tensioners, 2-into-1 exhaust, new tuner, and misc for $4,500, including labor. That increased it to 91 ft-lbs and 77 hp, and it performed like a totally different bike, that I really liked. This spring I had Stages III and IV done - upgrading to 95ci, larger intake valves and head work, 10.5-1 pistons and comp releases, and misc for $3,000, including labor. I am just finishing the engine break-in (because a car took me down this summer), and no dyno is done, but so far it is exceeding my wildest desires. My friends think I am nuts for spending that kind of money upgrading my bike, rather than buying a new one. But, I know A LOT about my bike, all of the original design/engineering flaws are fixed, there are no more unknowns, and it is totally unique with all of the custom work. It was definitely worth it to me, and I am only Very pleased, it's my baby!
I may go big inch eventually. Right now I have a 2000 carburrated Heritage with 11k miles, that I picked up recently, so I need to tend to the cam chest first. I replaced the cam chain tensioner shoes when I first bought it. Mainly because I wanted to do a visual inspection of the components, and get a measurement on pinion run out. I installed rocker lockers while I was doing this. So less than $100 and I know that it is a good candidate for a gear drive cam, I've eliminated most of the ticking, and it has new breathers and umbrella seals. Now I'll ride it while I save for the S&S cam chest kit with quickie pushrods. I won't have to get back into the rocker boxes until I need a top end. Then, I will probably put a big bore kit on it. But I don't see that happening for 5+ years. Reliability First.
I am so excited about that Pan America, Harley-Davidson needed something like that guys like us. I like to get off road too and I would love to have a Pan America and keep it all Harley, how you liking yours so far?
@GixxerFoo Admittedly, for me me, the most offroad it will see is gravel roads and old logging roads. I absolutely love the bike, it puts a smile on my face every ride! More people have to ride the Pan America and see just how great the bike is!! Harley Davidsons first time out put them squarely competing with the adventure touring market leaders. Harley Davidson did an amazing job with the Pan America!
I have enjoyed all your videos and this one really hit the reality of my wallet lol. I've supported H D by owning 5-M8 bikes Touring and Softails 18-21 models, taking the hit switching back and forth $$$$$ anyway back to reality sold newer bike and found a used H D March of 23, I'm on a 05 EGC 20k when purchased $4800 +$1800 for adding parts and labor- cams, cam plate w/ hydralic tensioners, oil pump upgrades 23k+ miles on it presently and recently picked up a 05 Sportster 1200 Custom w/30k on it. Maybe a bit money foolish but i enjoyed all of them new and older H Ds and settled in on older models that I still turn around and look at them and say to myself sweet. It is worth spending the money on an older machine. Ride on
Yes it’s worth spending the money as long as you keep the bike and don’t turn around and sell it or buy a new bike. Like buying new tires for the truck ( ya I going to keep it) then turn around and sell it. Ask me how I know lol
If you are spending that much money on a top end you might as well get the crank welded and trued and have the timken bearing installed. If the bottom end starts having problems you may be buying all those parts again
Very good point -I was thinking the same thing. And he's done compensator videos before too, highlighting that they are an issue to be mindful of. Certain 96ci models (mine, so I have to keep an eye) or any motor that has been significantly upgraded beyond the stock units threshold is definitely another expense. Which can be a game changer if someone is measuring restoration expenses against a new or newer bike.
Great point! You are absolutley correct, I hate to get into that part of it but you're not wrong. Heavy clutch spring will get you by but you need a compensator sprocket as well. Fortunately on the 88 the compensator held well but still wouldn't hurt to get a sprocket in there.
I have a 02 softail standard. Had it bored to a 98" by hammer performance, along with the head work. They recommended fueling's 575 reaper cams, and set the heads up for them. Of coarse I followed their directions to the letter and did the work myself. The bike already had a bassani road rage and alren ness monster sucker on it. I haven't had it dyno'd but I'd be real curious as to the numbers.
I just went 98" with ported heads, 574 cams, cv performance carb upgrade, and daytona twin tec. This bike is so fun now! Also did legends front and rear. Its a totally different bike.
Had a 2001 Ultra Classic that I had the 98 kit put in with 1300 miles on it. Put 186k miles on it with no issues. Best HD I've owned. Then got a new 2018 Ultra Classic with the 107 and had the ACR / auto compression release blow out of the head with 58k miles on it Thursday the day before the 2022 rally started in Rapid City and no HD shop for 100 miles would do warranty work on it because of the rally - pure BS that they didn't honor the warranty and destroyed my vacation. Got the bike fixed at my local dealer and immediately traded it for the 2022 Ultra Apex. 40k and no issues so far with the Apex. My daily is a 1st gen KLR I bought new and by now is basically a new bike. As long as parts are cheap and still available, I will never get rid of it.
This is the way to go. Restoring a classic, timeless design. The Evos and TC from the factory are undertuned, however if you think it out and either are friends with a mechanic, or know how to do the work yourself you can actually do it for not too much. And I think these older bikes have a better sounding thump to them.
LOL! Yeah, I hear ya. I put an S&S 106 Hot set into my 2009 Ultra. I went into the dealer and saw the new 2024's and 2023's. They were rebating the 23's by $6000 and I cam close to dropping some coin but they only wanted to give me $7500 for my bike.
If you're going to keep it another decade and rack up big miles I'd say it's definitely worth it! If it's just a shed or trailer queen just update to newer second hand.
you really have to make a commitment that you're going to keep this bike for a long time and realize you wont be able to sell without taking a huge loss. of course that the same situation if you buy a new bike. the only way to not lose a ton of money is find a 2014-2017 with low miles that's been cared for and just ride it.
It didn't make sense until I start seeing the engine in bits and the seed is planted. I count myself lucky to have a '99 TC fxdl. Had to give up my '95 fxdl 10 years back,once was enough.
The Evo is just a legendary engine, it's simple and solidly reliable. The 99 is a good year for the Twin Cam, only thing it really really needs is the cam chest update.
If you can not do the work, it is not a cost effective means to more power to take a 88 to a 98. If you can do the work, your cost will be a fraction of cost of the suggested modifications . The truth is an 88TC can make more than enough power if you do head work, cams, a good 2 into 1 exhaust and a good tune. When increasing the bore of a TC88 from 3.75 to 3.937 it creates a lot more heat, and if you are a long hauler, you wont like it. Its ok for a bar hopper engine. An additional 20Hp is easily achievable with the TC88. At most, going to a 95 inch TC makes a pretty good package without too much added heat and loss of fuel economy. One thing to keep in mind, you'll have other upgrades to do as well. It doesnt end with the engine. You'll need to upgrade the compensator and clutch spring at a minimum. Then, suspension. If you are running a 99 -06 touring frame bike, you should really change to the 07/08 rear swing arm. Chances are pretty good your original may be cracked, a known problem. Once again, if you can not perform these task, a post Rushmore bike, being 2014 on up may be the better choice. They are cheaper in the long run and, have a 103 High Output, Screaming Eagle compensator, improved suspension and the list goes on. I do the work, this is coming from hands on experience. Spend your hard earned money wisely, and you'll have enough left over to buy a new Harley-Davidson T-shirt.
I could never but I bought a 2013 Honda CB 1100 inline 4 air cooled retro styling and quality ride for 6 grand and I have my bone stock 1990 EVO FLHS when I need the old locomotive chug chug feel.
Just had the cam chest on my 1999 Electra-Glide upgraded, still had the original cam chain tensioners in it, bike has 69000 miles on it, used a kit from Zippers, bike runs much better
Do you still have the magnetti Marelli injection system or are you carbureted? I was looking into the zippers conversion for the fuel injection to the Delfi system
I still have the Magnetti Marelli system, I am waiting for it to die, then switch to either the Delphi or the Thundermax both from Zippers.@@timkilbourn5685
Well, I'm in that exact situation right now with a 2004 electra glide. I personally am tearing it down, including splitting cases . Just because i can! I have a 2022 heritage classic, and I still can't figure out why i boyght it. If i could do it all iover again. I would've bought an older pre 90's heritage and done a complete makeover on it instead. Cause building it with your own hands is just!!!
Build it yourself, it's worth the investment. That's what I'm doing. I just bought a 2004 Road King with 15k miles on it for 5k out the door, and that's what I'm doing.
I had a builder here in the Wichita area dyno tune my MM on my 01 EG. The numbers were embarrassing. He talked me into a carb conversation over the Delphi both through price point and support. Apparently there was only one company that did the Delphi conversion from MM and no one here in the area works on them. For $1,200 I got a carburetor fed 88 that “feels like” it has twice the power, he didn’t put it on the dyno to save me some $$. But damn what a difference. My mileage went from 27/28 to a solid 38 running around town and don’t have to worry about remapping it after swapping a part here or there. Not knocking Delphi, but sometimes old school is easier.
i just got mine done 2002 Softail with 68,000 kilometers, big bore kit from Milwaukee. Got it done at EAGLES EYE CUSTOMS in Whitby Ontario...7400 dollars Canadian upgraded the chain tightener also adjustable push rod...100hp,,its 1550cc now.and boy those it ever rip...i mean rip,,,its a carbureted bike...love your videos man from Ontario here
I own a 2006 Dyna Lowrider with 50,000 miles on it. I have had several reputable HD mechanics tell me to sell the bike since it is sort of a one off year and model. I have been told that in 06 they had fuel injector issues and came out with different ones in 07. I have also been told that there is a turn signal module that is tied directly to the ignition and Harley doesn't make the part anymore. If that part dies then you are dead in the water and it is highly recommended to buy one on ebay or from a bike salvage site and keep it just in case. Is there anything else to be concerned with? I like the bike and have been looking at Street Glides, Road Kings, and Heritage Softails. I haven't done anything yet and am torn between keeping the Dyna or getting something newer with fewer miles.
I just did my 2003 Anniversary Road King, that hit 50k And with a little extra with the S&S True Duel , And the Bassani mufflers, sounds good and runs good.
Yes! Especially, if it's one of the rare Models, like my 03 Springer, that aren't being made anymore and are still, highly desired by Harley-Davidson Softail Enthusiasts. :-) Peace, Stiletto :-)
Awesome video, touched main points that I've been comparing either a crate engine from S&S T124 or go with Zippers 124Muscle kit. Been stashing some coin away for a few check list items before the engine swap. Currently at 55k miles
i see that the kits don't include crank shaft bearings or rod bearings, can the old bearings survive the upgrade of the top end and camshaft. Any thoughts, should the bottom end be upgraded too or do these bikes have a long life bottom end.
Bolt on kits are intended to use the same bottom end but they are not life time bottom ends. It comes down to mileage and for sure checking run out on the pinion shaft. You want to be ideally below .005 on a 2003 or new, not a bad idea while it's all down to pull the primary and rotate the crank and make sure it turns free without tight spots.
@@GixxerFoo I am used to overhauling everything in cars, just doing the top seems popular for these bikes thought, it's like Harley's are different or something
True as long as you can do the work your self I trust no one to do work on my bike all ready done 525 coverion coverion kit buy fueling now ready for s&s cylinders and heads and have a powervision.
2002 classic.carbed 2005 a Great 98 build 525 gear drive ,head valve work 2 into 1 done by g.m.r 4100.00 total 85ooo,miles later strocker 103 it still worth it 150,ooo miles as of today
I have an 88 2005 twin cam electra glide . And like the info .the bike runs well. But the info your giving me is good to know. As i enjoy what I ride. 🏍🏍
Ament to that, that's all that matters and I love to hear your just happy with what you ride!! That's worth more than anything in my opinion, I am the same way.
Always worth investing, mind you it's best if you have a skill set to do the medium maintenance and service it needs. The more you can wrench the more you save. The new bikes aren't worth it, and even when buying new there's the expense of fitting the bike to you, now granted not everyone is 6'6" and over 300lbs., but I am and therefore need to fit the bike to me. The other advantage of fixing an older bike is being able to make it better than factory, which isn't hard since Harley isn't known for setting a high bar, and again, the more sweat equity you can put into it the better. It truly becomes your bike when you shed some blood and scrape a few knuckles. End of the day, the money you save buying used plus the investment of upgrades, you'll still save.
About six months ago I bought a 2016 Harley Davidson rogue glide ultra stage one kit on it tuner all kinds of stuff bells and whistles am thinking about putting a stage two kid into it and I’m getting a mixed opinion when I talk to people about camssome say use chains some the gear what is your opinion on that?
I had a blown up 92 flhs. And went S&S 96. My friend said buy a new one. I said I can’t get a bike the same for 6k that the S&S cost. So everyone had an 88 twin cam and my old 92 blew them away lol. Well it was a 96 though
When I first bought my ‘06 FXDWGI in December of 2021 I came across your videos. You educated me about my ‘06 Dyna being an odd duck in that it has had the tragic spring cam chain tensioners replaced with the hydraulic tensioners that were to replace the spring units in Harley’s other Twin Cams the next year. It also had the premiere of the 6 speed transmission and the 96 ci TC style heads were to premiere the next year and the larger front fork tubes. Then you started talking about adding cubes and a cam. It got me thinking that’s what I needed before ever riding my bike. After a summer of riding I still wasn’t convinced that I had enough power, largely because I was riding it like the Evo in my late friend’s Softtail Custom. The 88 TC is acceptable at low rpm cruising backroads, but at those revs I thought more cubes and a cam would be nice until I started to let it rev a few times and it came alive, something that I never expected from a Harley. To finish this story I’ve decided that I’ve got enough cubic inches for me and though I may add a cam it has all the power that I “need”. To keep the rpm’s under control I did order a speedo with the tach from Harley to keep me from over reving and trying to shift into 6th when I’m already there or to keep me from cruising in 5th when I think that I’m already in 6th. One question that I’d love for you to answer for me though. Being as my 88 TC has fuel injection and electronic controlled ignition is it like many of the vehicles produced today with these components that have ECM controlled rev limiters? I haven’t hit one yet, but I haven’t got that carried away turning it loose rpm wise and wouldn’t want to find out the hard way that it doesn’t have one. Thanks for all that you’ve taught me, GixerFoo, but I’m satisfied with what I’ve got as far as cubes go and I’m going to ride it another year and think about if I need anything more.
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Is it worth spending what an older Harley-Davidson is worth to upgrade the engine and make it a new bike to you?
Boy you hit it on the head! My 08 electraglide had 83000 miles on it. I got the HD engine programs 110".
Ran me about 7500.00. The motor was about 4000. With a cam. The rest was extras like new clutch pack, drive belt, replacement of everything in the primary. Even had them do all bushings and even swongarm bushing. Runs, handles, and rides like new. Saved myself about 15000.00! What's not to like. Plus saved 6% tax on a new bike...like $1300.00.
If you've already put money into servicing and solid upgrades in a bike that you already know then yes it'd make sense if you want a bit more, I know my 1999 TC88 has a Timken left bearing and a crank that is good to run gear drive cams, extra cubes alone would be plenty for me.
I was wondering I have a completely Bone stock 2021 road king with the 107. I like it quiet however, I would like a little bit more out of it, so what I was wondering can I put a cam in that bike without tuning it, and without changing the air cleaner or the slip On’s & it do me any good.
@@frankparnell7931
I had my 110 installed the old 96 had a stage 1 kit. That also fit the 110 with Harleys torque cam. With the stock it's fine. Really moves for me and at 75 years old with hearing aides could I tell the difference with slip ons?
@@frankparnell7931 If you put a cam in you’ll need a tuner. They sell cams that don’t have a lot of valve train noise, generally those are power cams versus torque cams. Bassani makes a muffler that is decently quiet, and you’ll definitely want to put on a Arlen Ness $200 air cleaner and you can reuse the stock cover. I don’t know if they make a slip on I think it’s just the two in the one. You can also get a licensed tune from your builder.
I've owned twenty Harleys over 51 years, ranging from 61 to 80 cubic inches, none of them bought new or from a dealer, and with the exception of installing drag pipes and less restrictive air cleaners, every one was left box stock.
And every one of them did the speed limit, and whatever more I needed.
Not one of them ever blew up, and I kept alotta cash in my pocket.
Smart way to go brother, be safe out there.
100% spot-on. Anyone with ANY amount of maturity knows 75 lbs of Torq from a stock 88 is all a person needs. Anything more and you're just asking for trouble, both legal and financial.
I did it twice. First build 37,000 mi. I'm on my second bill right now. Cost me about 3,800. I did it myself. It's well worth it . On a 2003 road King
Doing it yourself is the way to save the money!! With some mechanical knowledge and a service manual it's not hard at all to get it done.
That's bad ass dude, you got a channel showcasing your bike.???
@@GixxerFooshoooot why you think I need a Gixer foo neighbor! 😫🤣
Awesome dude! I'm contemplating it. My crank on my 2003 rk is way outta spec, it's spitting out oil somewhere. Is it 98 or 103? I would also make it gear cam. If I sell my bike as is ill lose 4 or 5k maybe or I keep it and make it run better and faster. Any advice?
"Any logical person that's good with their money would never even own motorcycles," had me spitting out my beer!! Basically any hobby is a big waste of money, but they keep you sane.
If you ride a bike for transportation, and don’t own a car, then a motorcycle will save you money…….however I can’t ride a motorcycle for just transportation, gotta have fun, thus money spent on gas is higher than just owning a truck
Toys cost a lot of money! It's worth every nickle to me. Kids and grandkids are happy, and I thoroughly enjoy all of the toys we have. I am truly blessed to be able to do it for us.
Fuel Moto converted my 88 to 98 overnight. I have before & after Dyno chart runs. Started with 62hp & 72ftlbs torque. Now I have 95hp & 111ftlbs & I can keep right up with anyone no problem. I was praying for 100hp but still the gains from the camshafts, ported heads & big jugs really pulled a lot of power & I can easily run premium pump gas without issue.
PS my crank had zero issues, they said it was in great shape & well within spec. The builder said he built one & it's ok to beat the hell out of it 😅. I don't beat the hell out of my bike but I do ride it hard a bit
That's what I love to hear making my best judgement in promoting a product! I love to hear that! Overnight?! Really?! That's worth every penny right there and the fact they stood solid behind it saying give it hell!!
Is it possible to change the 5 speed to 6 speed
@@budgreene8142 kind of hard to keep up with someone when you're pulled over getting a ticket
Wow! That is a serious power upgrade. I have a carbureted 88 in a 2000 Wide Glide. I love the thing. Need to do a tune up soon so I’m gonna swap out the cams a put a new air cleaner on it to give it just a little extra to it.
What can you keep up with? And what have you run against?
I’ve thought about replacing my 04 RoadKing several times over the years, but I can’t find anything else I’d rather have. I don’t like the stupid fat tires on the newer HDs. I prefer a five speed over a six. Besides, my RK and I have been all over this country together. All those memories count for something to me.
That's the best part of owning a Harley, you're limited to your imagination (and wallet) in making your bike whatever you want, the combinations are endless.
That hits home! That's what it's all about right there!!
What is your take on a S&S 100 kit.? What cam would you put with it.
thats the one 16 front 16 rear thats why i bought my 08 street glide instead of the 09. i have a stock 99 king its fantastic too.
It’s absolutely worth it if you love your old bike. On my 2000 dyna I used the S&S 98” big bore kit, S&S 89cc heads, S&S .585 cams w/ oil pump and cam chest, 42mm mikuni carb, fueling breathers, Daytona twin tech ignition, and of coarse a big ol’ air cleaner. All that totaled round $4900 and did it all myself. Bike is like brand new and I promise you that sucker f***in RIPS !!!!
Numbers?
Have a '98 FLHTCUI. Had it 20+ yrs. Redone motor twice. Last yr we tore it down and put a modified 4 stage + changed to 6 speed, got rid of fuel injection to a carb, complete rockford fasgate system/amp. Had progressives shocks for a few now. Spent aprx $15 K. Rides better then new!!!!!cause it's mine with my blood, sweat.....and I prefer the older look vs the new sleeker(smaller) everything AND I know where and what my baby has been through. Buds think I'm nuts but I'm money ahead and crusin loud, strong, reliable and stylin!!!!! Don't care what anyone says. Locktight EVERYTHING on old bikes n ride!!!!!!!!!
I got my 99 roadking 88" to a 98" this bike is awesome. I didn't stop there i went with new wheels, bars, custom paint. Never really added up how much i have spent but yes definitely worth it to me. Getting 105hp 108tq
I don’t see the point in doing any upgrades to a TC - might as well just get an M8 and put the money into that - it will generally produce way more power, run cooler, less vibration, less issues (post 2020).
Anyone who buys these kits should do the work themselves. It’s super easy and will only take you a day or two in the garage drinking some beers.
Just went through all this. Spent the last 2 years tormenting myself as to whether to rebuild my 88 or buy another bike with a 103. I figured I'd save money just buying another one. However!!! all the things that I wanted to do to the 88, I now want to do to the 103. I really wish I'd rebuilt my old bike. Besides, for me, working on a bike is just as much fun as riding it.
First, I wouldn't own an older Harley unless I could do at least most of the work myself. Is it worth the money? That's a personal call. That is a great price on that kit. If I had, or bought, a TC88 that needed a top end job, I would absolutely consider that kit. If you can install it yourself, I think it would be well worth it. Paying for labor makes it a tougher call for me.
I have a 2005 Ultra that when I bought it I didn’t know about the cam chain tension spring! So at about 19000 miles I had gear cams put in. It was ok but it still was not very fast. So at about 40,000 miles I had the engine rebuilt with a S&S 97 kit, sent the heads to Short Block Charlie in AZ to do his Scottsman head work, sent the crank to Dark Horse to be balanced, welded and timkin bearings, add one Baker DD6 transmission, S&S 3 stage oil pump, cam chest, 570 cams. I may have missed a few things but now I have a reliable Ultra with 110hp/118 torque. Yes it cost $$$ but now I have a bike that most HDs can’t catch, gets better gas mileage than stock and I’ve owned for almost 20 years.
I like any Harley that gets me from point A to point B as is.
That Harley you show at the start is the exact bike I have. Paint and all. 2002 Electra Glide with carburetor. My cam chest and carb was rebuilt 3 years ago. That's all it needed. I spent $1200 having it done at a shop. I purchased Fueling and S&S 510 cam components. As much as I love my Harley, I would probably opt for a newer used bike before I would sink $6k into her at this point.
That's awesome! It's a big decision if you want to put the money into one and make it hot rod or just get something newer and go from there.
It’s totally worth it to me. But I can do most of my own work too. I’ll be doing this to my 05 Dyna FXDI. Fueling cam chest upgrade, stock jugs bored and head work done by Hammer Performance (which you covered in a previous vid).
I have also done the same upgrades for my 04 FXSTSI, Feuling Cam Chest kit 525, 06 heads ported and cylinders punched out to 98ci from Hammer. (they had a great deal for the combo work). I just had my cylinders shipped back. Installing these after the new year. yahoo.... Beats buying a newer used bike. Great videos as well... Keep em coming...
I did exactly this - bought a 2005 road glide in medium condition with only 5k miles on it about a year ago. I took the money I saved, and had an s&s 98 cylinder and piston kit installed , s&s pushrods, fueling lifters, feuling cams ,timken cam bearings , ceiling hp+ cam plate and oil pump , with a good 2-1 exhaust, and a k&n air filter- and I came out with about 4000 parts and labor total. Do for 9k I got a 2005 road glide that is smoking many of my friends 96 and 103s , and I’ve beat a couple of stock m8s at 100/103 hp and torque!
Did the cams with feuling high flow pump and later did new heads and jugs. My deuce runs like champ.
It's amazing what a set of cams do for a bike and then you add the head work with a big bore, that's when things really get fun!
What is even cheaper, is buying an already upgraded 2002 TC with a stage IV kit on it. I payed around €7500, incl. shipping and import tax from the USA to Netherlands.
Put an other €2.500 into full paint job, new saddle and a lot of stainless stuff, new shocks front and back. For €10k the perfect bike. 107hp and 162nm torque on the dino
Now there's nothing wrong with that at all!! That's a deal and the way to find one if you get that lucky!
Great video man, as always...
I bought a used 2004 road king classic that had a 95" kit already installed, 525 cams, rinehart full exhaust, performance machine air filter, pc5, t bars, which, I hated and had changed later, for 5500$. It had 36 thou miles on it and IA gonna be 20 years old tomorrow, lol. Now my buddy has a 2011 street glide and had the 120r harley motor put in it, spent 11 grand doing this with exhaust and stretched bags, new front wheel, totally decked out and is an awesome bike, when went out riding i kept up with him the entire time and he was on the gas....I come to the conclusion the the stock 120r motor was chocked out lifetime cause he should have a smoked me all over the place. I think I'll keep my 20 year old 95" king and be happy with what I have....
That's awesome to hear! Sounds like you got a solid build going!
This is what i would do...
I agree, T bars look goofy AF on a Road King! 🤣😂
Thanks dudes!....
I took my 2003 heritage to 95" with 509 cams. Ran so good i beat on it and tweaked the crankshaft. Ended up doing it all over. Crank. Ballancers. Cam chest. 98". Portedheads. Redshift 528 cams.
90hp. 104 torque. 34 tooth front belt pully, no longer looking for another gear.
Its a keeper.
I inherited a TC88B soft tail when i turned 18. Great to know that there's still lots of life in her still.
I'm happy with my 2005 dyna super glide custom just the way it is. Just cruise around. Fast enough for me. It's got the great sound and looks. No need to increase performance. Has'nt let me down yet and done 53000 miles. Cam chain adjusters are still good.
Keep an eye on the cam chain tensioners. 50k with no issues on a 2005 dyna is called lucky
@@brandonmacon3317 yes , but i got the bike at 30,000 miles , so they could have been replaced. Were near no wear about a year ago. Will recheck soon.
I upgraded my 88 to a 107 for about $4k but I did it myself. So worth it and no regrets.
100% worth it. I am loving my 05 Road Glide and especially enjoy going through the process of "making it my own". Currently running the Fueling hydraulic tensioner conversion with 525 cams which has made an incredible difference. In 6-12 months, I'll be doing the 98" or 100" big bore, change out my current heavy breather for one of my own liking, stretched bags, LED lighting, Tab Zombie 50 Cals, and maybe some more aggressive cams to replace my 525s. Is it a money pit? Sure - But I have wasted money on much less enjoyable things in my youth. Can't beat the joy you get from knowing each and every part of your 2-wheeled wife LOL
My ‘03 FatBoy is coming up on 35k miles. It still runs like a champ but I know I’m going to have to do an upgrade soon. This gives me some good ideas where to start.
20 year old bike with 35,000 miles, brother you got about 50 years before you need a upgrade! Lol
@@Tomcat8911my 02 has 70,000 miles, original owner installed the 95" kit in it, but you are correct keep fluids changed and keep a eye on the cam chain tensioners ( I had to replace those once already) and she'll run like a new one! Love my old bike, good luck and stay safe
@@Tomcat8911I hear ya brother, they're so far outta my league in price now days it's crazy, I've got everything on mine I need and no monthly payment and I'm fine with that!
I have an 03’ Fatboy with 29,000 miles and it’s got plenty of power for me bone stock. The only upgrade I need to do is cam chain tensioner.
I traded in my 2002 Fatboy 88 for a 2016 Heritage 103 HO and it cost me $6000 but I got a newer more powerful bike.
There's a big performance gap between that late 103 and 88. 2016 was a damn good year of that 103!
The 95” kit is a good value for the early 88”. Pistons and cylinders and you’re at 95”. They ran great and made good , useable power.
Very worth it, already did this upgrade on my 2002 88
Pushed mine to 100 inch sidewinder, produced 110 hp 109 torque . I’m happy
That's awesome to hear! That shorter stroke motor makes a difference too!
@GixxerFoo ...how do you think short stroke motor makes a difference? Doesn't a stroker crank produce more torque?...maybe not so much top end but you can do that with a cam
I converted my 2002 FLTH to 98. Hammer Performance bored my cylinders,$640, Impact head work,$650, intake ported $75 all needed gaskets and support made my build very easy. Had already up graded cam plate to S&S, cams bearings and to make it be all it can be added Baker 6 speed tran. Sure makes it a good interstate ride.
absolutely! 88 is dangerous in overtaking situations. 100 horsepower provides security. yes, you have to be able to overtake with a dyna💪
I Just invested 8000 dollars converting my always reliable 2001 softail to a trike and yes it was worth every penny.
You know a trike conversion is a hell of a lot cheaper than buying one and you can keep the bike you love in the process!
Doing this upgrade myself.
I ported my heads myself and the local Harley guy bored my jugs for $45 a piece and added new oversized kibble white valve with s&s springs that go with the 585 cams.
He recommended the cp carillo 10.75 pistons. Might have to throw a splash of race gas in the tank. We’ll see.
In my opinion, buy the older EVO or T/C if you can do the work yourself
Absolutely!! Thank you for saying that!! Even the M8 isn't that bad, honestly probably simpler than the Twin Cams. Harley did lower the cost of a cam swap going back with a single cam design.
@@GixxerFoo I’ve been riding a long time. Worked in the industry for several years. I’m a firm believer that a used Harley is the way to go. Last spring I did something I said I’d never do, I now have a low km 2013 FXDWG. They are cheap up here.
Hell!!
I’m dumping money into my 40 year old, evo soft tail.
And happy to,
Just like my 1964 mercury.
I like old school!!!
The older the model the better!
I had a guy redo my 2003 Electra glide standard. Porter and polished the heads. Woods 777 cam mikuni carb thing runs great. Then I put a baker 6 speed in it upgraded to PM brakes and progressive suspension front And rear 1 inch over. Then I really overdid it with some BST carbon fiber wheels and lyndale rotors. Man am i happy with it I can't stop riding it!
Gixxer, i think a major point was missed on this one. Maybe not compare a brand new scoot. But a used 2018+ would be applicable that may have some accessories already. And rebuilding engine makes the mileage a moot point. I have dumped some money into my 07. But dont think i will split cases timken bearing the case, true and weld the flywheels or repalce them, then big bore it. Really the only correct way and true comparison. The power, reliability and value with a M8 vs Twin cam is beyond this video. For what a cam can do for a M8 you would have to spend 4k on twin cam to achieve comprable numbers on the dyno. Now as far as styling and what you like sentimentally is not a consideration here. Just dollars and cents.
My thinking is exactly in line with yours 👍Particularly if you go out and buy someone else’s bike, and then spend all that money on it in the Twin Cam proposition. It’s still an old bike with old suspension and old pretty much everything, no matter how you slice it and sugarcoat it. Now, if you already owned a Twinkie or Evo bike, well, different story then, because it’s your bike and you know, and it may, indeed have sentimental value to you it. If not - and with all due respect to the Gixxer - the math simply does not add up. Just the market value notion alone, would give me pause. Because, at the end of the day, if you look at the possibility to maybe selling your bike at some point, the market is not going to value your hop-up. In fact, it might very well DE-VALUE your scoot even further because of it, i.e. you’ve been (in their view) flubbin’ with it. And nonetheless, you will be, financially speaking, absolutely buried in that bike to where you completely priced it out of the market.
Another cost consideration in buying a used bike from someone you don’t know is the fact that you will spend an enormous amount of time chasing after that bike, dealing with every dreamer on the planet that thinks his bike is worth X when it ain’t, yet he needs to take months upon months to find out for himself what the actual market value is, at which point, when he’s finally got his, umm “education,” he’ll likely sell it to somebody else because you’re not in the picture anymore trying to educate him. Time is money, and that frustration and time sink is enormous.
From Southern California ~ Ride Forever! 🦅
I big bored my 2002 Dyna and never once felt like or believed I should have bought a new one instead. Once they put out the 6 speed transmission I even found one to put in my Dyna and instantly I had in terms of muscle and get up and get it the same thing on my paid for 02 the same thing others were getting with a whole brand new payment book for a new bike. And that 02 Dyna is still as eye appealing as it was the first time I ever saw it. It has gone through several incarnations in its 21 years but still turns as many heads and provokes as many thumbs ups as it ever did. No payment book, no big deal!
I have my 2003 fat boy already with the s&s cam plate, oil pump a 509 geared cams.... I just get a set of nos heads Ported, including the manifold and im considering to go for the 95 big bore Kit, to keep it as reliable as possible.
The 95 and 98 are really close, the parts in the Fuel Moto kit are everything you need to do it reliably.
@@GixxerFoo what's your opinion concerning the 97''?. My mechanic told me that the 95'' support better the heat temperature. My Ported heads are done for a 95" or 97" bore with less than 10. Compression ratio
I believe yes, I took my 2000 Heritage Board the cylinders went with 10.50 to 1 Wisco pistons Screaming Eagle CNC ported heads and a S&S TC cam plate and S&S 583 Cams and S&S flywheels New flywheels due to crank shift. all I can say is WoW! I did the work myself and saved a ton of $$$
That's the way to do it is doing the work yourself so you're not out more money in labor than what you spent on the parts.
Question is, how long will the bike last after this upgrade without shelling the crank? On the 03-06
Yes for sure did my engine 10 years ago to a 107 now changing out my fuel injection and going 6speed this winter. I’m the original owner of 2001 roadking
What about the run out. If you’re doing this on an older bike won’t you have to replace the crank if it’s excessive?
Run out is gonna be high especially on a 2003 or newer. You can keep the stock cam plate and roll with it. Feuling makes a billet OE plate that allows for some high runout.
I've never been hard on my bike, never burned the tire off, and never dogged my throttle to get around anyone. All that being said, I'm looking at a 120 to drop in Old Red with a 6 speed. I bought a Springer front end and I'm working on getting all the necessary parts to finish that. I found a 2-2 with crossover for my exhaust. I'd like to add air ride shocks. Upgrade to LED all the way around. Total parts estimate is $12-15k but it will be what I've always wanted...
As a guy that keeps vehicles forever, I'd say yes to the upgrade. I've got an 04 road king that I bought new, its got 46k miles on it now. I bought the cam plate upgrade kit and power vision tuner from fuel moto about 5 years ago with 28k on the bike, Andrews 21N cams and a 2 into 1 exhaust, did the work myself, runs great. Lately, I'm not sure if I'm hearing things out of the cam chest, like a loose chain when it warms up, but I'm considering opening it up to check the state of everything as I ride it pretty hard...also thinking a big bore kit now too.
My local indy, a personal friend, is an S&S dealer and he'd want to get me into a Sidewinder kit if I don't do something else. They do a lot of different kits, you got any comments (or a video) on the sidewinder kits?
I'll have to say that without ear plugs, the top end tick can be aggravating, I've even done the rocker shaft shims, but I like the 21N cams, they were supposed to be the better profiles for heavy baggers. I stayed away from the Woods cams because they were/are notorious for noise due to the steep ramps. It seems the road kings are the worst for top end noise as the windshield reflects all the noise back into your face. Thanks for the videos!
The other thing I wanted to comment on is the lifters and the big price the comes with them for "Harleys". Everyone should know that they're small block Chevy lifters and aren't anything special. I got mine through the V Thunder division of Competition Cams. I see that they're a little more than when I got them, but I remember paying less than 50 buck for a set.
@PeterAngles-jq7gr Not quite hotshot. Two shovelheads, two KTM's, over 150K on the road. Put up or shut up.
04 Road King just hit 17,000 miles owned since 2027 when it had 8000 miles.
88 Stage 1 ( nothing fancy ) except for the original blue two-tone paint with white walls and open K+N long shots.
2017...
I've messaged you before about my 2005 Fatboy. In 2019, I had a Stage II upgrade done with everything you usually suggest, using mostly aftermarket parts - cams and bearings, cam plate/oil pump and hydraulic tensioners, 2-into-1 exhaust, new tuner, and misc for $4,500, including labor. That increased it to 91 ft-lbs and 77 hp, and it performed like a totally different bike, that I really liked. This spring I had Stages III and IV done - upgrading to 95ci, larger intake valves and head work, 10.5-1 pistons and comp releases, and misc for $3,000, including labor. I am just finishing the engine break-in (because a car took me down this summer), and no dyno is done, but so far it is exceeding my wildest desires. My friends think I am nuts for spending that kind of money upgrading my bike, rather than buying a new one. But, I know A LOT about my bike, all of the original design/engineering flaws are fixed, there are no more unknowns, and it is totally unique with all of the custom work. It was definitely worth it to me, and I am only Very pleased, it's my baby!
For me, it’s definitely worth it.
I may go big inch eventually. Right now I have a 2000 carburrated Heritage with 11k miles, that I picked up recently, so I need to tend to the cam chest first.
I replaced the cam chain tensioner shoes when I first bought it. Mainly because I wanted to do a visual inspection of the components, and get a measurement on pinion run out. I installed rocker lockers while I was doing this. So less than $100 and I know that it is a good candidate for a gear drive cam, I've eliminated most of the ticking, and it has new breathers and umbrella seals.
Now I'll ride it while I save for the S&S cam chest kit with quickie pushrods.
I won't have to get back into the rocker boxes until I need a top end.
Then, I will probably put a big bore kit on it. But I don't see that happening for 5+ years.
Reliability First.
Awesome information as per usual. 👏 😊.
Probably going to update my twin cam this winter. I have a Pan America Special to ride on the dry sunny days
I am so excited about that Pan America, Harley-Davidson needed something like that guys like us. I like to get off road too and I would love to have a Pan America and keep it all Harley, how you liking yours so far?
@GixxerFoo Admittedly, for me me, the most offroad it will see is gravel roads and old logging roads.
I absolutely love the bike, it puts a smile on my face every ride!
More people have to ride the Pan America and see just how great the bike is!!
Harley Davidsons first time out put them squarely competing with the adventure touring market leaders.
Harley Davidson did an amazing job with the Pan America!
I have enjoyed all your videos and this one really hit the reality of my wallet lol. I've supported H D by owning 5-M8 bikes Touring and Softails 18-21 models, taking the hit switching back and forth $$$$$ anyway back to reality sold newer bike and found a used H D March of 23, I'm on a 05 EGC 20k when purchased $4800 +$1800 for adding parts and labor- cams, cam plate w/ hydralic tensioners, oil pump upgrades 23k+ miles on it presently and recently picked up a 05 Sportster 1200 Custom w/30k on it. Maybe a bit money foolish but i enjoyed all of them new and older H Ds and settled in on older models that I still turn around and look at them and say to myself sweet. It is worth spending the money on an older machine. Ride on
I just bought a 98" kit from Zippers. I have an 01 FXDX with .510 cams, SE cam plate and oil pump, S&S gear drive, Mikuni, Supertrapp
I got an 08 dyna, and love the bike. Right now I'm saving money to do a 103. Since i love the bike throwing 6 grand in it is a no brainier.
Yes it’s worth spending the money as long as you keep the bike and don’t turn around and sell it or buy a new bike. Like buying new tires for the truck ( ya I going to keep it) then turn around and sell it. Ask me how I know lol
GIXRFOO do you like this kit better than the hammer performance kit?
If you are spending that much money on a top end you might as well get the crank welded and trued and have the timken bearing installed. If the bottom end starts having problems you may be buying all those parts again
Great video, but you left out the cost of the new clutch & heavy duty compensator sprocket, added power leads to upgrades on down the power train
Very good point -I was thinking the same thing. And he's done compensator videos before too, highlighting that they are an issue to be mindful of. Certain 96ci models (mine, so I have to keep an eye) or any motor that has been significantly upgraded beyond the stock units threshold is definitely another expense. Which can be a game changer if someone is measuring restoration expenses against a new or newer bike.
Great point! You are absolutley correct, I hate to get into that part of it but you're not wrong. Heavy clutch spring will get you by but you need a compensator sprocket as well. Fortunately on the 88 the compensator held well but still wouldn't hurt to get a sprocket in there.
I'm about 6 months into the exact same plan on a 2001 ultra, which makes sense to me.
I just purchased a 98” zippers kit and waiting for the shop to install I’ll be right around 6300$ with the tuning and install 😁
I have a 02 softail standard. Had it bored to a 98" by hammer performance, along with the head work. They recommended fueling's 575 reaper cams, and set the heads up for them. Of coarse I followed their directions to the letter and did the work myself. The bike already had a bassani road rage and alren ness monster sucker on it. I haven't had it dyno'd but I'd be real curious as to the numbers.
I got on 07 U.C. had 6500 miles on it for 8500. Put a cam,ultra cool oil cooler and hog tunes. Riding pretty nice for under 10gs.
I had the HD 96 to 103 conversion kit with the Fueling Reaper 543 cam chest kit installed on my 08 Night Train, we’ll worth it indeed…
I just went 98" with ported heads, 574 cams, cv performance carb upgrade, and daytona twin tec. This bike is so fun now! Also did legends front and rear. Its a totally different bike.
Had a 2001 Ultra Classic that I had the 98 kit put in with 1300 miles on it. Put 186k miles on it with no issues. Best HD I've owned. Then got a new 2018 Ultra Classic with the 107 and had the ACR / auto compression release blow out of the head with 58k miles on it Thursday the day before the 2022 rally started in Rapid City and no HD shop for 100 miles would do warranty work on it because of the rally - pure BS that they didn't honor the warranty and destroyed my vacation. Got the bike fixed at my local dealer and immediately traded it for the 2022 Ultra Apex. 40k and no issues so far with the Apex.
My daily is a 1st gen KLR I bought new and by now is basically a new bike. As long as parts are cheap and still available, I will never get rid of it.
This is the way to go. Restoring a classic, timeless design. The Evos and TC from the factory are undertuned, however if you think it out and either are friends with a mechanic, or know how to do the work yourself you can actually do it for not too much. And I think these older bikes have a better sounding thump to them.
LOL! Yeah, I hear ya. I put an S&S 106 Hot set into my 2009 Ultra. I went into the dealer and saw the new 2024's and 2023's. They were rebating the 23's by $6000 and I cam close to dropping some coin but they only wanted to give me $7500 for my bike.
If you're going to keep it another decade and rack up big miles I'd say it's definitely worth it! If it's just a shed or trailer queen just update to newer second hand.
I have an 06 st glide I'm doing a 100 inch big bore power pack and new s&s heads I love my bike I'll do it my way
you really have to make a commitment that you're going to keep this bike for a long time and realize you wont be able to sell without taking a huge loss. of course that the same situation if you buy a new bike. the only way to not lose a ton of money is find a 2014-2017 with low miles that's been cared for and just ride it.
It didn't make sense until I start seeing the engine in bits and the seed is planted. I count myself lucky to have a '99 TC fxdl. Had to give up my '95 fxdl 10 years back,once was enough.
The Evo is just a legendary engine, it's simple and solidly reliable. The 99 is a good year for the Twin Cam, only thing it really really needs is the cam chest update.
Man thus is the coolest video by far a frequent asked question lol thank you happy new years.
Thank you!! Happy new year to you too!!
The smiles that a high hp and torque (by HD standards anyway) motor bring me beats a new stock bike any day of the week
That's exactly what it makes it worth it!
If you can not do the work, it is not a cost effective means to more power to take a 88 to a 98. If you can do the work, your cost will be a fraction of cost of the suggested modifications . The truth is an 88TC can make more than enough power if you do head work, cams, a good 2 into 1 exhaust and a good tune. When increasing the bore of a TC88 from 3.75 to 3.937 it creates a lot more heat, and if you are a long hauler, you wont like it. Its ok for a bar hopper engine. An additional 20Hp is easily achievable with the TC88. At most, going to a 95 inch TC makes a pretty good package without too much added heat and loss of fuel economy. One thing to keep in mind, you'll have other upgrades to do as well. It doesnt end with the engine. You'll need to upgrade the compensator and clutch spring at a minimum. Then, suspension. If you are running a 99 -06 touring frame bike, you should really change to the 07/08 rear swing arm. Chances are pretty good your original may be cracked, a known problem. Once again, if you can not perform these task, a post Rushmore bike, being 2014 on up may be the better choice. They are cheaper in the long run and, have a 103 High Output, Screaming Eagle compensator, improved suspension and the list goes on. I do the work, this is coming from hands on experience. Spend your hard earned money wisely, and you'll have enough left over to buy a new Harley-Davidson T-shirt.
I could never but I bought a 2013 Honda CB 1100 inline 4 air cooled retro styling and quality ride for 6 grand and I have my bone stock 1990 EVO FLHS when I need the old locomotive chug chug feel.
some of the best vids and advise on youtube. new bike cost 50k + here 😡😡
Whoa... hang onto it and just keep upgrading her!
Just had the cam chest on my 1999 Electra-Glide upgraded, still had the original cam chain tensioners in it, bike has 69000 miles on it, used a kit from Zippers, bike runs much better
Do you still have the magnetti Marelli injection system or are you carbureted? I was looking into the zippers conversion for the fuel injection to the Delfi system
I still have the Magnetti Marelli system, I am waiting for it to die, then switch to either the Delphi or the Thundermax both from Zippers.@@timkilbourn5685
Well, I'm in that exact situation right now with a 2004 electra glide.
I personally am tearing it down, including splitting cases . Just because i can! I have a 2022 heritage classic, and I still can't figure out why i boyght it. If i could do it all iover again. I would've bought an older pre 90's heritage and done a complete makeover on it instead. Cause building it with your own hands is just!!!
Build it yourself, it's worth the investment. That's what I'm doing. I just bought a 2004 Road King with 15k miles on it for 5k out the door, and that's what I'm doing.
Happy new year to everyone 🎉
Happy New Year!!
Good bikes. When you upgrade oil chest. What do you have for the mag marelli upgrade ?
For that system you're really looking at swapping to a carb, Zippers used to make a Delphi conversion kit but it didn't sell super well.
I had a builder here in the Wichita area dyno tune my MM on my 01 EG. The numbers were embarrassing.
He talked me into a carb conversation over the Delphi both through price point and support. Apparently there was only one company that did the Delphi conversion from MM and no one here in the area works on them.
For $1,200 I got a carburetor fed 88 that “feels like” it has twice the power, he didn’t put it on the dyno to save me some $$. But damn what a difference. My mileage went from 27/28 to a solid 38 running around town and don’t have to worry about remapping it after swapping a part here or there.
Not knocking Delphi, but sometimes old school is easier.
@@gerryrandolph I think a 42 m mikuni carburetor would be great 👍. Delphi looks like a bit too much for us
i just got mine done 2002 Softail with 68,000 kilometers, big bore kit from Milwaukee. Got it done at EAGLES EYE CUSTOMS in Whitby Ontario...7400 dollars Canadian upgraded the chain tightener also adjustable push rod...100hp,,its 1550cc now.and boy those it ever rip...i mean rip,,,its a carbureted bike...love your videos man from Ontario here
What about Hammer Performance ??
I own a 2006 Dyna Lowrider with 50,000 miles on it. I have had several reputable HD mechanics tell me to sell the bike since it is sort of a one off year and model. I have been told that in 06 they had fuel injector issues and came out with different ones in 07. I have also been told that there is a turn signal module that is tied directly to the ignition and Harley doesn't make the part anymore. If that part dies then you are dead in the water and it is highly recommended to buy one on ebay or from a bike salvage site and keep it just in case. Is there anything else to be concerned with? I like the bike and have been looking at Street Glides, Road Kings, and Heritage Softails. I haven't done anything yet and am torn between keeping the Dyna or getting something newer with fewer miles.
I just did my 2003 Anniversary Road King, that hit 50k And with a little extra with the S&S True Duel , And the Bassani mufflers, sounds good and runs good.
That is awesome!
My 09' fxd club style dyna with 2-1 pipe n tuner is just fine lol🤘🛵
I don't care to own a fast bike but if I did want one a Harley-Davidson would be one of the last brands I would consider buying
Yes! Especially, if it's one of the rare Models, like my 03 Springer, that aren't being made anymore and are still, highly desired by Harley-Davidson Softail Enthusiasts. :-) Peace, Stiletto :-)
Awesome video, touched main points that I've been comparing either a crate engine from S&S T124 or go with Zippers 124Muscle kit. Been stashing some coin away for a few check list items before the engine swap. Currently at 55k miles
Get it done!! I love to hear that!!
i see that the kits don't include crank shaft bearings or rod bearings, can the old bearings survive the upgrade of the top end and camshaft. Any thoughts, should the bottom end be upgraded too or do these bikes have a long life bottom end.
Bolt on kits are intended to use the same bottom end but they are not life time bottom ends. It comes down to mileage and for sure checking run out on the pinion shaft. You want to be ideally below .005 on a 2003 or new, not a bad idea while it's all down to pull the primary and rotate the crank and make sure it turns free without tight spots.
@@GixxerFoo I am used to overhauling everything in cars, just doing the top seems popular for these bikes thought, it's like Harley's are different or something
True as long as you can do the work your self I trust no one to do work on my bike all ready done 525 coverion coverion kit buy fueling now ready for s&s cylinders and heads and have a powervision.
2002 classic.carbed 2005 a Great 98 build 525 gear drive ,head valve work 2 into 1 done by g.m.r 4100.00 total 85ooo,miles later strocker 103 it still worth it 150,ooo miles as of today
That's awesome to hear!!
I have an 88 2005 twin cam electra glide . And like the info .the bike runs well. But the info your giving me is good to know. As i enjoy what I ride. 🏍🏍
Ament to that, that's all that matters and I love to hear your just happy with what you ride!! That's worth more than anything in my opinion, I am the same way.
Always worth investing, mind you it's best if you have a skill set to do the medium maintenance and service it needs. The more you can wrench the more you save. The new bikes aren't worth it, and even when buying new there's the expense of fitting the bike to you, now granted not everyone is 6'6" and over 300lbs., but I am and therefore need to fit the bike to me. The other advantage of fixing an older bike is being able to make it better than factory, which isn't hard since Harley isn't known for setting a high bar, and again, the more sweat equity you can put into it the better. It truly becomes your bike when you shed some blood and scrape a few knuckles. End of the day, the money you save buying used plus the investment of upgrades, you'll still save.
There are a lot of good deals on brand used bikes with lots of extras for 16k
About six months ago I bought a 2016 Harley Davidson rogue glide ultra stage one kit on it tuner all kinds of stuff bells and whistles am thinking about putting a stage two kid into it and I’m getting a mixed opinion when I talk to people about camssome say use chains some the gear what is your opinion on that?
I have a 02 Dyna Lowrider should I do a rebuild or buy a different bike?
02 has the timken bottom end, I would hang onto that one and build a hell of a special machine for less than a new one!
I had a blown up 92 flhs. And went S&S 96. My friend said buy a new one. I said I can’t get a bike the same for 6k that the S&S cost. So everyone had an 88 twin cam and my old 92 blew them away lol. Well it was a 96 though
Trying to decide on the Fuel Moto 98 kit vs the S&S 100 power pack. I thinik the 10/1 pistons might be better for my 05 Road King.
When I first bought my ‘06 FXDWGI in December of 2021 I came across your videos. You educated me about my ‘06 Dyna being an odd duck in that it has had the tragic spring cam chain tensioners replaced with the hydraulic tensioners that were to replace the spring units in Harley’s other Twin Cams the next year. It also had the premiere of the 6 speed transmission and the 96 ci TC style heads were to premiere the next year and the larger front fork tubes. Then you started talking about adding cubes and a cam. It got me thinking that’s what I needed before ever riding my bike. After a summer of riding I still wasn’t convinced that I had enough power, largely because I was riding it like the Evo in my late friend’s Softtail Custom. The 88 TC is acceptable at low rpm cruising backroads, but at those revs I thought more cubes and a cam would be nice until I started to let it rev a few times and it came alive, something that I never expected from a Harley. To finish this story I’ve decided that I’ve got enough cubic inches for me and though I may add a cam it has all the power that I “need”. To keep the rpm’s under control I did order a speedo with the tach from Harley to keep me from over reving and trying to shift into 6th when I’m already there or to keep me from cruising in 5th when I think that I’m already in 6th. One question that I’d love for you to answer for me though. Being as my 88 TC has fuel injection and electronic controlled ignition is it like many of the vehicles produced today with these components that have ECM controlled rev limiters? I haven’t hit one yet, but I haven’t got that carried away turning it loose rpm wise and wouldn’t want to find out the hard way that it doesn’t have one. Thanks for all that you’ve taught me, GixerFoo, but I’m satisfied with what I’ve got as far as cubes go and I’m going to ride it another year and think about if I need anything more.