I would consider ‘Caretaker’ a no win scenario as Janeway was forced to choose between getting back to the Alpha Quadrant but leaving the Ocampa vulnerable to the Kazon, or destroying the array saving the Ocampa but stranding Voyager in the Delta Quadrant in the process. She chose the latter (Cuz, in her mind, Starfleet saves people not condemn them to attack). It’s mentioned numerous times throughout Voyagers seven year run how she sometimes regrets making that decision.
@Darth Revan - They couldn't take the chance back then. Despite that the Kazon seem to be 10 steps behind Voyager as far as technology went, they couldn't take the chance they could detect an explosive device on the station and get in before the bomb blows up. And it wouldn't fit the storyline, because Voyager throughout Star Trek history was deemed a lost vessel working its way home.
I don't think it was truly a no win, while the station couldn't blow itself up anymore, they still had the ability to transport stuff aboard it. so put plenty of their own explosives around the core, rigged to go off on a timer or if they are touched or shaken at all, so there's no stopping these once triggered. this would of allowed them to get back to their ship trigger the return to alpha sequence and then have the station go boom once they are back home or at least significantly closer then they started. there wouldn't of been any risk of this one failing as even if the attackers managed to shut down the power to the station the independently powered explosives would still of gone boom. Also since they are rigged to go off if they are touched or jostled any attempt to move them or get into the access panel would also set them off while they are still next to the thing they need to explode by. really the only reason they didn't do something like this is if they had they would of been able to resolve the whole series main plot point in the first episode.
"I expected more from you than an idle threat, Picard." "Then you shall have it. Mr. Worf?" "Aye, sir...Klingon warships. Armed and ready, sir." "What shall it be, Tomalak?" "You will still not survive our assault!" "You will not survive ours. Shall we die together?"
SCENARIO: The Enterprise-D encounters a technologically superior hive-mind alien collective that is bent on assimilating the entire ship to be brought into the collective, after Q challenges Picard to accept that there are things beyond humanity's ability to confront. RESOLUTION: Picard admits to Q that they are helpless against a foe this adaptable, and begs Q to intervene.
On thing I've always wondered is, Did the borg only become interested in the federation because they saw the Enterprise vanish? They'd been to Federation space before and then left.
@@Karajorma They won't touch those they are not interested in, thus I would say no, Borg would go to federation one way or another since UFP is advanced enough to be interesting to the Borg.
There’s a great book called The Kobayashi Maru where Kirk, Scotty, Chekhov and Sulu are travelling by shuttle craft and strike up a conversation about how they each handled the no win scenario. Each approach is different, and reflects the character. A good read.
@@howardharris8371 Some random bloke wrote a Kathryn Janeway autobiography. Nothing to do with Kate Mulgrew. Guess they just wanted to make Janeway look better. Failed.
Great video. That Episode with the clone was appalling. Phlox condemned an entire species to death over a moral dilemma but now he's okay raising sentient clones to harvest their organs?! Also, why the HELL did they ever permit the clone to gain consciousness so that everyone could become attached to it?
If i recall correctly didn't they need the clones brain/nerve cells from the brain to safe Tucker? Also you are comparing one decision made in peacetime with a crucial mission to safe their entire race during a war with a hostile species. Meanwhile the other species Phlox "condemned" was on decline biologically while they basically held another more "primitive" species as slaves. Imagine if a space faring species would have intervened so that the neanderthals didn't go extinct while helping them supress the sapiens. Archer and Phlox had to made a similar choice in this case while the tucker-dilemma was one made in a time critical moment during a war and only had an effect on their mission not a whole species or more.
@@Scitch87 Sim develops mentally and emotionally into Tripp. And the episode says that the process is genetic. So he develops exactly the same if he's asleep for the duration. But that would make for dull TV
I accidentally won a Kobayashi Maru scenario in the Army Medical Department Mass Casualty testing for EFMB. I was at the right place at the right time and not only saved everyone but single handedly wiped out the aggressor platoon. It was stupid crazy under 30 seconds. .
Everybody looks at the Tuvix scenario the wrong way. Tuvix wasn't a person, he was two people suffering from a shared ailment. This ailment left these two people in a compromised State of Mind causing them to make decisions they would otherwise not make. I wholeheartedly believe that as their defacto power of attorney, captain Janeway made the right decision.
If he was alive in the DS9 era, he would have been arrested for murdering a clone. They established in season 1 that murdering a clone is still murder. When that dude tried to frame Odo.
4:20 I never really like the situation set up regarding Trip's clone. The clone was allowed to be sentient and educated and the viewers were allowed to get to know the person. The clone could have been made brain dead and asleep to harvest the organs. It's not perfect but better than giving a self-aware clone a death sentence. Still a good episode if you set this point aside.
Thanks for citing “Similitude” from Enterprise. Wonder how Jim Kirk or Ben Sisko would’ve resolved this scenario? “The most famous” indeed, and James T. Kirk is truly the greatest Starfleet Captain ever.
I say again, restoring the status quo was the correct choice. Tuwix can not claim to speak for tuvok or neelix. Choosing him over the other 2 would have been a death sentence for tuvok and neelix.
@@jamesbizs And yet, they're not, are they? They're walking around just as they were. Because they didn't _die_, they were mutated. If they were dead, they'd be dead, and Tuvix could not exist in the first place. The entire premise is that Tuvix is the living embodiment of Tuvok and the living embodiment of Neelix. Tuvix has no right to deny Tuvok and Neelix their independent lives back. If the crew are supposed to just accept the existence of Tuvix as the result of the "death" (your word) of Tuvok and Neelix, then it's no less justifiable to accept restoring Tuvok and Neelix with the "death" of Tuvix. You don't get to pretend that one is more tragic than the other. Honestly, I found this episode completely stupid. This was honestly an amazingly easy choice, and the whole thing was just strung along. We've had dozens of transporter accidents before, and they were all undone at the end. And no, Thomas Riker is not the same thing at all. His existence has no bearing on anyone or anything else. Unless the actors were going to be kicked off the show, then it was always clear from the beginning what was going to happen, so getting all bent out of shape is really stupid.
Or a "dead" Romulan officer turned out to be Cdr. T'Pol's father who'd died when she was 14. If the Vulcans didn't know what they looked like then, it's possible her mother was tricked by him. He comes to the Enterprise to seek help in defecting to Vulcan in his later years. This could've been an episode in the cancelled 5th season.
@@virginiaconnor8350 The Ambassador in this episode (T’Pel) was a woman, who was supposedly killed in a transporter accident while beaming to the Romulan ship to conduct negotiations. Admiral Satie brings up this incident while questioning Capt. Picard in “The Drumhead.”
This video was about scenarios in which no decision would have led to a completely satisfying outcome. What decision-dilemma was there in 'Data's day'? They were simply duped.
I would have mentioned the Deep Space Nine episode where Sisko records a log stating the Romulans are in the war. The No win scenario is that Sisko has to live with the knowledge that Garrik killed a Romulan to make it look like the Dominion attacked them.
"That's why you came to me, isn't it captain? Because you knew I could do those things that you weren't capable of doing. Well, it worked. And you'll get what you wanted: a war between the Romulans and the Dominion. And if your conscience is bothering you, you should soothe it with the knowledge that you may have just saved the entire Alpha Quadrant, and all it cost was the life of one Romulan senator, one criminal... and the self-respect of one Starfleet officer. I don't know about you, but I'd call that a bargain."
Also, if they needed to clone the entire person, they could still have done something to the brain while it was an embryo that would destroy its higher functions while leaving the base functions intact.
They could just remove the brain and install a remote-control device in not-Trip's head instead. Y'know, like what they did when Spock didn't have his brain ("Brain and brain, what is brain?") that one time.
Good point. Let some unknown alien kill half your crew, hoping you end up one of the living....or purposely kill everyone, but it your own decision. Definitely seems like a no-win scenario to me. And I love Riker's line near the end: "Are you sure he was bluffing?"
No-Win Scenario 10: Sacrifice the Phoenix & Captain Maxwell, or sacrifice the Cardassian Treaty. Solution: send in O'Brien! No-Win Scenario 9: Dominion reinforcements through wormhole. Solution: have O'Brien build a minefield!
One could say in 1942, the Enterprise was faced with a no-win scenario against the entire Japanese Navy, yet it survived and took victory from them at midway, and many more.
The way those cardassians were acting with the shielded ships near those outposts was suspicious enough that Picard should have been able to search them since if the cardassians were doing nothing wrong they had nothing to hide. If they weren’t up to something then why would they be going to so much trouble to hide their cargo. I think they had probable cause to search them.
During the battle versus the Scimitar and subsequently Data sacrificing himself... wouldn't he have had time to access an armoury for a personal shield if he knew he had to blew up the device/ship? They are in use during that stardate. I wonder if the personal shield had the power to fully shield the blast. Even if it didn't, wouldn't there be a chance Data's head would survive.
the time was short and there was no time to look for a personal shield. And no the thalaron blast would have destroyed any shield that small. That's why the technology is presumably banned.
I disagree with the idea that Burnham's actions could've forestalled the Klingon War. It is made clear in the pilot that T'Kuvma needed a war with the UFP. That war would've happened even if Burnham had been able to shoot first. A successful mutiny would have the same outcome
@@artiek1177 As far as I'm concerned....that's an Kling-Orc from another alternative reality that's NOT AT ALL connected with the Canon timeline with Star Trek!
The transporter doesnt work like that. It is explained throughout the shows. There have been two accidents which have created duplicates and the Tuvix one where they fused, but they cant do it on purpose.
Always thought captain archers decision to steal that warp coll so he could reach his meeting with Degorah on time was a good decision however stranded the aliens years from home
Tuvix is an outstanding episode in Voyager, and that's evidenced by the fact that we still argue about it 20 years later. I personally think that Tuvix had the right to live, but I also think Janeway made the right decision because both men were necessary to make it home. By blending both, you dulled the strongest aspects of each, meaning that several times when they needed one or the other at their best, they wouldn't have made it out alive.
I have a question. I'm looking for a clip from Star Trek (I think it's from the original series, but not sure). There's a dilemma about what to do. The ship is in imminent danger, and the crew is contemplating all possible actions. I'm not sure, but I think it's Spock who calculates the best action is to do NOTHING. Do you know how I can watch that clip, or the name of the episode, or where I can find it?
6:40 What? I think you and I watched a very different Star Trek Discovery. Burnham betrays her captain and friend to start a war with an alien species. That's not "resolving" a no-win scenario; that's literally failing!
The TNG Season 5 episode "The First Duty" could qualify for this list. Wesley finds himself in his own "no-win" scenario. Does he listen to Picard and tell the truth, no matter the consequences? Or does he listen to Tom Par... I mean... Nicholas Locarno and stay loyal to his friends, but live with the guilt of knowing he lied about one of those friend's death? I remember watching some of the special features and even the writers themselves admitted they were having a hard time deciding what they should have Wesley do.
When you think how Kirk got we’ll know for his no win scenario, he cheated on the Kobayashi Maru. He rigged the test so he could win. Not the most valiant thing to do, but it worked. Subsequently the rest of the no win scenarios were of a more dire situation. Tuvix being one of such tragedy, that it would be hard to let a being exist so long that he would want to stay alive. I can only assume that what Tuvix experienced remained in Tuvok and Neelix. So in essence Tuvix still lives on. Spock and Data, with their self sacrifice to save all is probably the most gallant bit of heroism ever done in the Star Trek universe. As with all things Star Trek, they were both brought back to life. This can prove that certain characters should not die, due to their popularity. For me it was a hash blow seeing these two bite the dust, not knowing if they would return. (Though Data took a long time to return!) It’s nice to see how our favorite characters can best the no win scenario. ❤❤
With #10, that was a very empty warning, considering how little the Federation did to prepare for inevitable war with the Cardassians. As for #1, it's been established that the transporter can duplicate people. It's not *supposed* to, but potential to make it do that does exist. It could potentially turn the 1 being into 3 with enough power.
If you're referring to the incident that created Thomas Riker, there was environmental factors that was impossible to duplicate without very specific conditions.
@@GabePuratekuta Environmental factors, yes. Impossible to duplicate? Hardly. When people are reduced to just data and they have a machine that can turn data into matter
The murder of *Tuvix* has always bothered me. She could have cloned him and divided the clone or something. Another thing: Both *Tuvok* and *Neelix* have the memory of being *Tuvix* and of being torn apart. That would be a pretty traumatic experience for most beings, yet they don't seem to be affected by it. Strange.
people keep talking about using the transfer buffer to clone Tuvix as was done in the Riker scenario... So I have to ask... Isn't it possible Data's ... data... is still in the transport buffer? I mean, the enterprise has multiple transporters...
A not on Sims life. It was initially believed by Dr. Phlox that Sim would survive the procedure and live out the rest of his brief lifespan. Learning that the extraction would kill him, the question became does Archer force him to go through with it anyway, essentially murdering him. How it was resolved was that Sim decided to go through with it anyway. To prevent more tragedies like what happened to HIS sister Elizabeth.
What about the Deep Space Nine team playing baseball against a much more skilled and experienced team in "Take Me Out to the Holosuite"? DEFINITELY a no-win scenario!
Tuvix was murdered. It does not matter, how he came to be. He was and wanted to live. Both Tuvok and Neelix knew about the risk of duty on Starship Voyager and agreed to it. They didn’t come to death by the transporter, they become a unique new person. A new species by the way. Janeway not only murdered Tuvix, she betrayed the very root mission of Starfleet. To explore new life. And I definitely don’t see her to be haunted by any of her decisions. She always has been merciful with herself, when she speaks of „bending the rules a little“. I would accuse and court martial her.
Question to all the nerds, and/or geeks: why couldn't have data given Picard his head before he blowed on up der? Then, once back on Enterprise they could have built him a new positronic Hulkbuster suit body and made one for his daughter lol too. Or they just could have put data's head on LOLs body would have looked weird but hey when in Romulus
His positronic matrix is in his head, the body would not be able to function without the head. I’m sure data’s transporter could only transport one person anyway, meaning they couldn’t even rig a phaser to fire once they’d beamed away.
The makeup department might’ve went a little overboard with them haha. They’ve dialed it back a little bit though, I think they realized it was a little too extreme, and now I’m really happy with the result! Modernizing old tv is weird
Data's death was caused by Picard, Data could have timed the beam out just before the explosion. Data even tries to volunteer, but Picard had to do it himself.
the judge, Louvois,was out of order when she said she will summarily rule if riker doesnt prosecute,she may have been in a position to punish riker for disobeying a direct order,but not data for another man's so called crime
Janeway did the right thing in Tuvix. They wrote that to force her to have to do something horrible, but was the right choice. Just look at the expression on her face after. She was not happy she had to eliminate a sentient being pleading to live.
Completely agree. Imo that's what made Star Trek good. It was hopefully but also had the realistic stories sometimes that you don't always get the happy ending or even the ending you can live with. Cause life is like that.
The entirety of Wrath of Kahn was a no-win scenario. Cinematically, the whole reason that they showed the Kobyachi Maru as the first scene was to set the theme for the rest of the movie, more or less victory and defeat (And of course, multiple times Kirk and the Enterprise broke the rules of the no-win scenarios, while Kahn was making the scenarios so he could win) In contrast, I do not believe the scimitar was a no-win scenario. Considering how long the weapon charged up, the crew of the Enterprise could've evacuated the ship and head for the giant hole they recently left in the scimitar, or behind the ship. Frankly that movie was a bunch of unexplained decisions and dumb thinking, with attempted exposition
There is a novel that explains what Krkj did to the computer. He programmed it to have the klingons recognize him by name as a honoured foe. He then challenged the Klingon to 1 on 1 honourable combat on the condition they leave Enterprise alone. The offer was accepted and while he fought the Klingon leader, the Enterprise escaped the trap. Sacrifing one life for an entire ship saved the day, but was still a no win scenario for him. Death in battle with the kilgon or trial and death by torture if he survived. He ordered his ship into the neutral zone. His life was forfeit. Just made sure no one else suffrred for his choice. That was why he was given a comendation for original thinking. He changed the rules to allow self sacrifice in Star Fleet's highest tradition to save innocent lives and prevent a war. How could they condemn that choice.
I don't completely understand Tuvix's situation. Tuvix could have been saved, if he was cloned and then the original Tuvix was split back into Tuvok and Neelix. The Clone would go on to live, having vital abilities of both Tuvok and Neelix when needed to augment the crew. Plus, it would create a type of third Vulcan on the ship for Tuvok to communicate to.
voyage had access to the will/Thomas Riker data. So they could have solved the problem without killing tuvix by transporter cloning him and then splitting him.
Steve Shives is way way way to the left and is preachy as all hell and will even tell you on his videos that if you don't agree with him, he doesn't want you watching his videos. He's a childish, smug arrogant ahole
Automatically generated subtitles are amazing, the bajoran war against the Kardashians is an absurdly hilarious thought
I would watch that!
This needs to happen.
I tried making YT videos for a little bit but my Yorkshire accent made the automatic subtitles explode.
We can live in hope
I’ll put money on the Kardashians in that war.
I would consider ‘Caretaker’ a no win scenario as Janeway was forced to choose between getting back to the Alpha Quadrant but leaving the Ocampa vulnerable to the Kazon, or destroying the array saving the Ocampa but stranding Voyager in the Delta Quadrant in the process. She chose the latter (Cuz, in her mind, Starfleet saves people not condemn them to attack). It’s mentioned numerous times throughout Voyagers seven year run how she sometimes regrets making that decision.
@Darth Revan was thinking the same.
The OP went quiet haha
I love Voyager!
@Darth Revan - They couldn't take the chance back then. Despite that the Kazon seem to be 10 steps behind Voyager as far as technology went, they couldn't take the chance they could detect an explosive device on the station and get in before the bomb blows up. And it wouldn't fit the storyline, because Voyager throughout Star Trek history was deemed a lost vessel working its way home.
I don't think it was truly a no win, while the station couldn't blow itself up anymore, they still had the ability to transport stuff aboard it. so put plenty of their own explosives around the core, rigged to go off on a timer or if they are touched or shaken at all, so there's no stopping these once triggered. this would of allowed them to get back to their ship trigger the return to alpha sequence and then have the station go boom once they are back home or at least significantly closer then they started. there wouldn't of been any risk of this one failing as even if the attackers managed to shut down the power to the station the independently powered explosives would still of gone boom. Also since they are rigged to go off if they are touched or jostled any attempt to move them or get into the access panel would also set them off while they are still next to the thing they need to explode by. really the only reason they didn't do something like this is if they had they would of been able to resolve the whole series main plot point in the first episode.
The Defector has the best no win scenario/resolution hands down. That ending and how the Enterprise escapes is classic!
Shall we die together?
That is basically how Kirk solved Kobayashi Maru test. If you can't fight the system, just cheat the system.
No, the one where the romulans retrieve their spy
classic!
"I expected more from you than an idle threat, Picard."
"Then you shall have it. Mr. Worf?"
"Aye, sir...Klingon warships. Armed and ready, sir."
"What shall it be, Tomalak?"
"You will still not survive our assault!"
"You will not survive ours. Shall we die together?"
SCENARIO: The Enterprise-D encounters a technologically superior hive-mind alien collective that is bent on assimilating the entire ship to be brought into the collective, after Q challenges Picard to accept that there are things beyond humanity's ability to confront.
RESOLUTION: Picard admits to Q that they are helpless against a foe this adaptable, and begs Q to intervene.
On thing I've always wondered is, Did the borg only become interested in the federation because they saw the Enterprise vanish? They'd been to Federation space before and then left.
@@Karajorma they were too shy to say hi first, so they waited for someone to do it lol
@@Karajorma They won't touch those they are not interested in, thus I would say no, Borg would go to federation one way or another since UFP is advanced enough to be interesting to the Borg.
@@songyani3992 the Borg was already making incursions against the Federation even prior to the Enterprise's encounter with them.
@@phil9947 I know……
There’s a great book called The Kobayashi Maru where Kirk, Scotty, Chekhov and Sulu are travelling by shuttle craft and strike up a conversation about how they each handled the no win scenario. Each approach is different, and reflects the character. A good read.
I read that one. They talk about it because their shuttle has had an accident and they consider themselves to be taking the test yet again.
... and each of them in that shuttle crisis applies the lessons they learned back at the academy as a result of the test. It's a great canon book.
I'm really happy you mentioned Kathryn Janeway's autobiography in regards to Tuvix! Nicely done, and great list!
The character Kathryn Janeway wrote an autobiography or the actress who played her?
@@howardharris8371 Some random bloke wrote a Kathryn Janeway autobiography. Nothing to do with Kate Mulgrew. Guess they just wanted to make Janeway look better. Failed.
@@20catsRPG thank you for letting me know. Now I know not to buy the book if I run across it
@@howardharris8371 Yeah it's a blatant attempt to cash in.
@@20catsRPG Every book ever written is an attempt to "cash in". But every Star Trek book needs to be approved by Paramount.
Summed up well by; "My god Bones what have I done?" "What you had to do, what you always do, turned death into a fighting chance to live."
Still salty about Data's sacrifice. In TNG phasers were often enough reprogrammed to auto-fire or to overload and detonate.
It was the worst Trek movie ever, so just ignore everything that happened in it.
All the teleporters on the Enterprise are down!
What about the teleporters on the shuttles then?
Shut up.
Or the one on the captain's gig?
Shut up
@@RichO1701e True. Thanks, Stuart Baird.
it was brent sprinars request he was WAS done with data and wanted a permanant way out.
@@hardwirecars Did he insist it had to be stupid though?
Regarding Tuvix. It's too bad the situation that made Thomas Riker isn't well known. They might have gotten Tuvok and Neelix back while keeping Tuvix.
Honestly I'm surprised Starfleet didn't start cranking out clone soldiers with that trick. Probably a copyright issue with the Empire. ;)
IIRC, I don't believe they could recreate the conditions that lead to Thomas Riker.
Ivan Freely
It depends on whether you consider clone Boimler canon.
@@schwarzerritter5724 It IS canon, that's undebatable.
@@jerryc3467 Section 31 has entered the chat.
The guy who played the cyberneticist that wanted to disassemble Data played that role well. I hated him! Lol.
Yet Data has been seen in correspondence with him in the events seen in the episode Data’s Day.
…and Bruce Maxwell ended up dying an unpleasant death in “Picard”
@@greenbeacon394 everyone has or will die an unpleasant death in STP
The way this video was structured I found absolutely fascinating I look forward to more content similar to this keep up the great work everybody
Great video. That Episode with the clone was appalling. Phlox condemned an entire species to death over a moral dilemma but now he's okay raising sentient clones to harvest their organs?! Also, why the HELL did they ever permit the clone to gain consciousness so that everyone could become attached to it?
Exactly. If tech is so good, go in really soon and replicate with no brain.
If i recall correctly didn't they need the clones brain/nerve cells from the brain to safe Tucker?
Also you are comparing one decision made in peacetime with a crucial mission to safe their entire race during a war with a hostile species. Meanwhile the other species Phlox "condemned" was on decline biologically while they basically held another more "primitive" species as slaves. Imagine if a space faring species would have intervened so that the neanderthals didn't go extinct while helping them supress the sapiens. Archer and Phlox had to made a similar choice in this case while the tucker-dilemma was one made in a time critical moment during a war and only had an effect on their mission not a whole species or more.
"Why the HELL did they ever permit the clone to gain consciousness so that everyone could become attached to it?"
So the episode could happen
@@Scitch87 Sim develops mentally and emotionally into Tripp. And the episode says that the process is genetic. So he develops exactly the same if he's asleep for the duration. But that would make for dull TV
we have to remember that Phlox is really a vet and not just a doctor.
I accidentally won a Kobayashi Maru scenario in the Army Medical Department Mass Casualty testing for EFMB. I was at the right place at the right time and not only saved everyone but single handedly wiped out the aggressor platoon. It was stupid crazy under 30 seconds. .
Did they adjust the testing afterwards to make that not work?
wait there is a real kobayashi maru??!?!?!?!
Did you rank up in COD after it was over?
Everybody looks at the Tuvix scenario the wrong way. Tuvix wasn't a person, he was two people suffering from a shared ailment. This ailment left these two people in a compromised State of Mind causing them to make decisions they would otherwise not make. I wholeheartedly believe that as their defacto power of attorney, captain Janeway made the right decision.
If he was alive in the DS9 era, he would have been arrested for murdering a clone. They established in season 1 that murdering a clone is still murder. When that dude tried to frame Odo.
4:20 I never really like the situation set up regarding Trip's clone.
The clone was allowed to be sentient and educated and the viewers were allowed to get to know the person.
The clone could have been made brain dead and asleep to harvest the organs.
It's not perfect but better than giving a self-aware clone a death sentence.
Still a good episode if you set this point aside.
the clone would not live long either way
Thanks for citing “Similitude” from Enterprise. Wonder how Jim Kirk or Ben Sisko would’ve resolved this scenario?
“The most famous” indeed, and James T. Kirk is truly the greatest Starfleet Captain ever.
Maybe they would've kept Sim asleep since there wasn't any need for him to be awake? And that would give them time to focus on something else
Ds9 episode where the defiant crashed and they met their offspring. Voyager pilot.
Yes! That is a great episode and had me guessing right to the end.
The episode Tuvix has always been difficult to watch due to the no win scenario. It was definitely number one on my list.
I say again, restoring the status quo was the correct choice.
Tuwix can not claim to speak for tuvok or neelix. Choosing him over the other 2 would have been a death sentence for tuvok and neelix.
What I like about the episode is that the doctor refused to do it, forcing Janeway too. I thought it was a nice touch
@@trazyntheinfinite9895 the status qou? Tuxvix exists. He is a sentient being. The other two are dead.
@@jamesbizs And yet, they're not, are they? They're walking around just as they were. Because they didn't _die_, they were mutated. If they were dead, they'd be dead, and Tuvix could not exist in the first place. The entire premise is that Tuvix is the living embodiment of Tuvok and the living embodiment of Neelix. Tuvix has no right to deny Tuvok and Neelix their independent lives back.
If the crew are supposed to just accept the existence of Tuvix as the result of the "death" (your word) of Tuvok and Neelix, then it's no less justifiable to accept restoring Tuvok and Neelix with the "death" of Tuvix. You don't get to pretend that one is more tragic than the other.
Honestly, I found this episode completely stupid. This was honestly an amazingly easy choice, and the whole thing was just strung along. We've had dozens of transporter accidents before, and they were all undone at the end. And no, Thomas Riker is not the same thing at all. His existence has no bearing on anyone or anything else.
Unless the actors were going to be kicked off the show, then it was always clear from the beginning what was going to happen, so getting all bent out of shape is really stupid.
Maybe I've missed it, but a list on various species' life spans would be very cool.
Agreed!
Another superb video! Thank the Prophets for this channel x
Also, in “Data’s Day”, when it’s discovered that the Vulcan Ambassador that they thought had died was really a Romulan spy.
Or a "dead" Romulan officer turned out to be Cdr. T'Pol's father who'd died when she was 14. If the Vulcans didn't know what they looked like then, it's possible her mother was tricked by him. He comes to the Enterprise to seek help in defecting to Vulcan in his later years. This could've been an episode in the cancelled 5th season.
@@virginiaconnor8350 The Ambassador in this episode (T’Pel) was a woman, who was supposedly killed in a transporter accident while beaming to the Romulan ship to conduct negotiations. Admiral Satie brings up this incident while questioning Capt. Picard in “The Drumhead.”
This video was about scenarios in which no decision would have led to a completely satisfying outcome. What decision-dilemma was there in 'Data's day'? They were simply duped.
I would have mentioned the Deep Space Nine episode where Sisko records a log stating the Romulans are in the war. The No win scenario is that Sisko has to live with the knowledge that Garrik killed a Romulan to make it look like the Dominion attacked them.
"That's why you came to me, isn't it captain? Because you knew I could do those things that you weren't capable of doing. Well, it worked. And you'll get what you wanted: a war between the Romulans and the Dominion. And if your conscience is bothering you, you should soothe it with the knowledge that you may have just saved the entire Alpha Quadrant, and all it cost was the life of one Romulan senator, one criminal... and the self-respect of one Starfleet officer. I don't know about you, but I'd call that a bargain."
Also, if they needed to clone the entire person, they could still have done something to the brain while it was an embryo that would destroy its higher functions while leaving the base functions intact.
Or just figure out how to clone the parts individually.
@@dragonmaster613 I already said that in a earlier comment.
They could just remove the brain and install a remote-control device in not-Trip's head instead. Y'know, like what they did when Spock didn't have his brain ("Brain and brain, what is brain?") that one time.
@@Fayanora I didn't scroll down enough, my apologies.
question being, when they created the clone... did it develop a soul?
Love that Dukat facial hair situation.
Well done! Thoughtful and thought-provoking
Pretty sure the Enterprise in First Contact was the Sovereign Class Enterprise E, not the Galaxy class Enterprise D.
Second season, episode 2 "Where Silence Has Lease". This episode most definitely should have made it on the list.
Good point. Let some unknown alien kill half your crew, hoping you end up one of the living....or purposely kill everyone, but it your own decision. Definitely seems like a no-win scenario to me. And I love Riker's line near the end: "Are you sure he was bluffing?"
"I have been - and always shall be - your friend."
The tuvix situation was gut wrenching but correct
New favourite RUclips channel! I had no idea about this channel. Love it!
No-Win Scenario 10: Sacrifice the Phoenix & Captain Maxwell, or sacrifice the Cardassian Treaty. Solution: send in O'Brien!
No-Win Scenario 9: Dominion reinforcements through wormhole. Solution: have O'Brien build a minefield!
That's why he is the most important man in Starfleet History...lol
Between him and Scotty, Starfleet's greatest engineers probably saved the day more than their captains did.
@@WhiteFangofWar : Entire book series based around Starfleet engineers.
One could say in 1942, the Enterprise was faced with a no-win scenario against the entire Japanese Navy, yet it survived and took victory from them at midway, and many more.
I LIKE IT.
The way those cardassians were acting with the shielded ships near those outposts was suspicious enough that Picard should have been able to search them since if the cardassians were doing nothing wrong they had nothing to hide. If they weren’t up to something then why would they be going to so much trouble to hide their cargo. I think they had probable cause to search them.
During the battle versus the Scimitar and subsequently Data sacrificing himself... wouldn't he have had time to access an armoury for a personal shield if he knew he had to blew up the device/ship? They are in use during that stardate. I wonder if the personal shield had the power to fully shield the blast. Even if it didn't, wouldn't there be a chance Data's head would survive.
the time was short and there was no time to look for a personal shield. And no the thalaron blast would have destroyed any shield that small. That's why the technology is presumably banned.
Not with an explosion that magnitude. It would be very much similar to a lead-lined fridge next to an exploding atomic bomb.
@@kevinmencer3782
As CPT. America once said, "I got that reference!"
(4th Indiana Jones film)
I disagree with the idea that Burnham's actions could've forestalled the Klingon War. It is made clear in the pilot that T'Kuvma needed a war with the UFP. That war would've happened even if Burnham had been able to shoot first. A successful mutiny would have the same outcome
I haven’t watched ST Discovery as I don’t subscribe to any streaming services, my question is; that’s a Klingon??
@@artiek1177 They are Klingons, and it is a long story. They do not discuss it with outsiders
@@artiek1177
As far as I'm concerned....that's an Kling-Orc from another alternative reality that's NOT AT ALL connected with the Canon timeline with Star Trek!
@@artiek1177 Well yes but no. Alternate universe Klingons.
@@RegBeta now that’s a good description. You know, with his ears Legolas could pass for a Vulcan?
Well done TrekCulture, good delivery Sean.
9:18 If Janeway went back into the patternbuffer Tuvix's pattern should still be there and they could bring him back
The transporter doesnt work like that. It is explained throughout the shows. There have been two accidents which have created duplicates and the Tuvix one where they fused, but they cant do it on purpose.
I love the show DS-9.
The war do come to pass in Star Trek Deep Space Nine. they would had stop it right now in the show.
Always thought captain archers decision to steal that warp coll so he could reach his meeting with Degorah on time was a good decision however stranded the aliens years from home
Agreed, That was a pure Thug Life moment. A Federation captain might not have done it, but there was no Federation then.
Always happy to see another Seán Ferrick video
In regards to the first one, I wonder what happened to him (Captain Maxwell) once they went to war with the Cardassians......
He laughed until hyperventilating.
Tuvix is an outstanding episode in Voyager, and that's evidenced by the fact that we still argue about it 20 years later. I personally think that Tuvix had the right to live, but I also think Janeway made the right decision because both men were necessary to make it home. By blending both, you dulled the strongest aspects of each, meaning that several times when they needed one or the other at their best, they wouldn't have made it out alive.
I have a question. I'm looking for a clip from Star Trek (I think it's from the original series, but not sure). There's a dilemma about what to do. The ship is in imminent danger, and the crew is contemplating all possible actions. I'm not sure, but I think it's Spock who calculates the best action is to do NOTHING. Do you know how I can watch that clip, or the name of the episode, or where I can find it?
I was about to be mad Tuvix wasn’t on the list, but you got it 😀
Worf's discommendation seems appropriately no-win
6:40 What? I think you and I watched a very different Star Trek Discovery. Burnham betrays her captain and friend to start a war with an alien species. That's not "resolving" a no-win scenario; that's literally failing!
No
The TNG Season 5 episode "The First Duty" could qualify for this list. Wesley finds himself in his own "no-win" scenario. Does he listen to Picard and tell the truth, no matter the consequences? Or does he listen to Tom Par... I mean... Nicholas Locarno and stay loyal to his friends, but live with the guilt of knowing he lied about one of those friend's death? I remember watching some of the special features and even the writers themselves admitted they were having a hard time deciding what they should have Wesley do.
There could have been a third option for Tuvix, cloning before the separation.
No.
They did Maxwell dirty, he didn't deserve 20 years in jail for killing some damned dirty Cardis
The only good Cardassian is a dead Cardassian. 😉
When you think how Kirk got we’ll know for his no win scenario, he cheated on the Kobayashi Maru. He rigged the test so he could win. Not the most valiant thing to do, but it worked. Subsequently the rest of the no win scenarios were of a more dire situation. Tuvix being one of such tragedy, that it would be hard to let a being exist so long that he would want to stay alive. I can only assume that what Tuvix experienced remained in Tuvok and Neelix. So in essence Tuvix still lives on.
Spock and Data, with their self sacrifice to save all is probably the most gallant bit of heroism ever done in the Star Trek universe. As with all things Star Trek, they were both brought back to life. This can prove that certain characters should not die, due to their popularity. For me it was a hash blow seeing these two bite the dust, not knowing if they would return. (Though Data took a long time to return!)
It’s nice to see how our favorite characters can best the no win scenario. ❤❤
Ah yes the Tuvix disaster....
A *NO WIN* scenario for sure
the other one you missed was the episode pen pals
TUVIX was the one trek that I disagreed with her decision. it went against the prime directive
Tuvix STILL hurts.
Curious you mention ST2, but dont mention Kirk's orders to the ship to leave them behind if they do not hear back.
With #10, that was a very empty warning, considering how little the Federation did to prepare for inevitable war with the Cardassians.
As for #1, it's been established that the transporter can duplicate people. It's not *supposed* to, but potential to make it do that does exist. It could potentially turn the 1 being into 3 with enough power.
If you're referring to the incident that created Thomas Riker, there was environmental factors that was impossible to duplicate without very specific conditions.
@@GabePuratekuta Environmental factors, yes. Impossible to duplicate? Hardly. When people are reduced to just data and they have a machine that can turn data into matter
The murder of *Tuvix* has always bothered me. She could have cloned him and divided the clone or something.
Another thing: Both *Tuvok* and *Neelix* have the memory of being *Tuvix* and of being torn apart. That would be a pretty traumatic experience for most beings, yet they don't seem to be affected by it. Strange.
Some freaky looking fish guy pulls up in his warp-10-capable hotrod shuttlecraft. He asks if you need a ride. It's raining pretty hard.
I think that episode is available on that Hamster website
Number 3 it also lead to Sela
Tuvix could have been saved. Create a transport clone during the beam process and separate the original into Tuvok and Nelix (or vice versa).
No.
people keep talking about using the transfer buffer to clone Tuvix as was done in the Riker scenario...
So I have to ask...
Isn't it possible Data's ... data... is still in the transport buffer? I mean, the enterprise has multiple transporters...
Great Video 👍🏿
A not on Sims life. It was initially believed by Dr. Phlox that Sim would survive the procedure and live out the rest of his brief lifespan. Learning that the extraction would kill him, the question became does Archer force him to go through with it anyway, essentially murdering him. How it was resolved was that Sim decided to go through with it anyway. To prevent more tragedies like what happened to HIS sister Elizabeth.
wait, Spock dies? Spoilers man.
It's been 40 years, man. 🤣
What makes this funnier is that there's a spoilers Red Alert at 0:18, so he did warned about it lol
It takes many times making decisions that will affect a Captain for life so when they become an Admiral Just ask Janeway
What about the Deep Space Nine team playing baseball against a much more skilled and experienced team in "Take Me Out to the Holosuite"? DEFINITELY a no-win scenario!
Tuvix was murdered. It does not matter, how he came to be. He was and wanted to live. Both Tuvok and Neelix knew about the risk of duty on Starship Voyager and agreed to it. They didn’t come to death by the transporter, they become a unique new person. A new species by the way. Janeway not only murdered Tuvix, she betrayed the very root mission of Starfleet. To explore new life. And I definitely don’t see her to be haunted by any of her decisions. She always has been merciful with herself, when she speaks of „bending the rules a little“. I would accuse and court martial her.
Yeah I second that opinion. It was immoral to kill Tuvix.
What was worse was how everyone would on the bridge just coldly turned a deaf ear to Tuvix’s pleas.
@@Vagus32000 that was unbelievable. How did not one person object?
@@Vagus32000 I agree, I expected Tom to stand up for him. Idk why. It was heartbreaking.
Question to all the nerds, and/or geeks: why couldn't have data given Picard his head before he blowed on up der? Then, once back on Enterprise they could have built him a new positronic Hulkbuster suit body and made one for his daughter lol too. Or they just could have put data's head on LOLs body would have looked weird but hey when in Romulus
Because 'shut up' that's why!
Because the head controls the body.
He didn't "blow on up der". He aimed and fired a phaser at the doomsday weapon. I'm pretty sure he needed his head to do that.
His positronic matrix is in his head, the body would not be able to function without the head. I’m sure data’s transporter could only transport one person anyway, meaning they couldn’t even rig a phaser to fire once they’d beamed away.
He needed his head to move his body to fire the phaser at the generator.
Wait? The last one could they do what they did to riker? Clone him and separate tuvak and neilix from the buffer? Just saying..
Good luck Profesor
What is with those Klingons on Discovery? 😳
The makeup department might’ve went a little overboard with them haha. They’ve dialed it back a little bit though, I think they realized it was a little too extreme, and now I’m really happy with the result! Modernizing old tv is weird
Ah, late to the party I see. Best not to think too much about it (or Discovery in general).
Making them less human is a good idea.
Top execs in CBS toll show runners and designers they had to make things look different.
You can’t win an Emmy for make-up design by using somebody else’s make-up design.
For what crime was Tuvix sentenced to death?
Top 10 ‘The Doctor’ episodes from Voyager
Doctor Who?
Here is a thought what about the first mission for all federation captains in sto
Data's death was caused by Picard, Data could have timed the beam out just before the explosion. Data even tries to volunteer, but Picard had to do it himself.
Overload the phaser and leg it scenario, I approve.
@@dakariszulu exactly
I don't believe in a no-win scenario.
It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life.
No Win Scenario: The Outer Limits.
No Such Thing as a "No Win Scenario" : Star Trek
@@aqdrobert This. Kirk always cheats death.
Alt title for this video: Ten Scenarios You Don't Believe In! :-D
Like Kirk, neither do I!
the judge, Louvois,was out of order when she said she will summarily rule if riker doesnt prosecute,she may have been in a position to punish riker for disobeying a direct order,but not data for another man's so called crime
You didn't mention how Kirk resolved the Kobayashi Maru no-win scenario.
Well, that's because he cheated.
@@BioGoji-zm5ph He cheated - TWICE - Prime and Kelvin timelines.
Tuvix could have been solved via either the actions that created the Riker clone or that which generated the tripp clone.
Janeway did the right thing.
No she didn't
Sometimes
I doubt even Sisko would have killed Tuvix
Considering how transporter accidents involving copying the transportee have already happened, it should’ve been an option.
Pretty Janeway didn’t use the same ruthlessness and found Quinn mentally unstable. She would have been home much quicker then.
Janeway did the right thing in Tuvix.
They wrote that to force her to have to do something horrible, but was the right choice. Just look at the expression on her face after. She was not happy she had to eliminate a sentient being pleading to live.
Completely agree. Imo that's what made Star Trek good. It was hopefully but also had the realistic stories sometimes that you don't always get the happy ending or even the ending you can live with. Cause life is like that.
You truly ARE Star Trek god Seàn!! DAMN it man... I'm a human being not mindless atomaton!! :)
These aren't really resolutions, just smart people picking the lesser of two evils
Janeways decision is the hardest one, it’s a shame they couldn’t just rematerialized the 2 men from the last transporter records!!!
Definently a missed opportunity to not mention that Hue episode
nice too see a Enterprise epesiode
The entirety of Wrath of Kahn was a no-win scenario. Cinematically, the whole reason that they showed the Kobyachi Maru as the first scene was to set the theme for the rest of the movie, more or less victory and defeat (And of course, multiple times Kirk and the Enterprise broke the rules of the no-win scenarios, while Kahn was making the scenarios so he could win)
In contrast, I do not believe the scimitar was a no-win scenario. Considering how long the weapon charged up, the crew of the Enterprise could've evacuated the ship and head for the giant hole they recently left in the scimitar, or behind the ship. Frankly that movie was a bunch of unexplained decisions and dumb thinking, with attempted exposition
There is a novel that explains what Krkj did to the computer. He programmed it to have the klingons recognize him by name as a honoured foe. He then challenged the Klingon to 1 on 1 honourable combat on the condition they leave Enterprise alone. The offer was accepted and while he fought the Klingon leader, the Enterprise escaped the trap. Sacrifing one life for an entire ship saved the day, but was still a no win scenario for him. Death in battle with the kilgon or trial and death by torture if he survived. He ordered his ship into the neutral zone. His life was forfeit. Just made sure no one else suffrred for his choice. That was why he was given a comendation for original thinking. He changed the rules to allow self sacrifice in Star Fleet's highest tradition to save innocent lives and prevent a war. How could they condemn that choice.
Once again very, very great! Thanks a lot!
But may I ask you where you've got the TrueType from ST II/III intros?
Didn't expect tuvix coming out here :D
"you are looking at the only man to beat Kobayashi Maru test" Nog hold my Synthehol
Tuvix was not "killed" since Tuvok and Neelix shared THEIR memory.
As a separate being, Tuvix was murdered.
I love this list
I don't completely understand Tuvix's situation. Tuvix could have been saved, if he was cloned and then the original Tuvix was split back into Tuvok and Neelix. The Clone would go on to live, having vital abilities of both Tuvok and Neelix when needed to augment the crew. Plus, it would create a type of third Vulcan on the ship for Tuvok to communicate to.
The reason there was no solution is because it was on TV … not like there were no possibilities
Ah, Tuvik.
The darkest episode in star trek history.
voyage had access to the will/Thomas Riker data. So they could have solved the problem without killing tuvix by transporter cloning him and then splitting him.
I'm shocked, SHOCKED, that the Kobiashi Maru was not number 1, let alone, ON THE LIST!
that because JJ Abraham ruined it.
probably because Kirk DID win, so it doesn't count.
the kobiash maru is just a test and not a real no win situation
My only problem with Tuvix's death is that Neelix survived.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
☠️💀☠️
SF Debris, is that you?
So many transporter accidents, and that's the one that doesn't take...
Steve Shives recently did a video on Tuvix.
Great channel
Steve Shives is way way way to the left and is preachy as all hell and will even tell you on his videos that if you don't agree with him, he doesn't want you watching his videos. He's a childish, smug arrogant ahole
@@brianrandall7329 To each his own.
@@brianrandall7329 pot calling the kettle black?
Tuvix was a heart breaking episode.