Testing Plumbing Without Water
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- Опубликовано: 24 ноя 2022
- Roger shows us how he performs an air test on central heating systems.
Schrader Valves:
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Bike Floor Pump with Gauge
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#plumbing #plumbinghacks #plumbinglife
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For someone that is 70 Roger you are a god of the building industry keep up the good work
Thanks but please don't big me up, my wife has to live with me
@@SkillBuilder hahaha 😂
A good, informative video about how to do a simple air test with no muss or fuss, yet with safety at the forefront. Well done!
Brilliant tip! Carried out on my Reno. After a few minor noticeable leaks, I can now get the pressure to hold at 1-2bar for an hour. Sadly overnight it keeps dropping, so still on the hunt for that final leak….. hoping it could be the schrader valve itself
That's a game changer with the schrader valve, what a top tip!
I can absolutely see the advantage of air testing.
Thank you.
At college finding the leaks was half the fun!
There was always one pipe insert missing, or a compression fitting not nipped up properly and the crestfallen student would get properly ribbed for it.
Nobody ever had a leaky soldered joint though.
The pros do it too. A neighbour knocked on the door the other night as her radiator was leaking and the boiler pressure dropping, she'd had British Gas out to service the system a couple of weeks ago but this was the first time she'd used it since.
The leaking compression fitting on that radiator wasn't even hand tight, it just hadn't been tightened up at all.
I’m a plumber and never seen this tip always struggled but now I can do it a lot easier thanks good video
It is my patent idea, I am going to make a forturne out of it.
It’s a fabulous idea. Probably not noticed because I don’t service my own car tyres. Well done Roger.
I love tips like this, valve made for a completely different fitment but fits the compression joint perfectly, can't wait to do it, thanx Roger.
Absolutely brilliant idea. Sadly came one day too late for me. I'm water testing at the moment and yes one push fit fitting decided to attempt a return to the wild at one bar. Thanks so much for this top idea Rodger :)
Love the stuff you talk about on this channel.
I’m not an expert, I’m not in the Trades, I’m smart enough to hire experts who have spent years becoming experts do the things I don’t have the skill sets to do…whew…that took forever to simply say:
Thanks for taking the time to teach all of us (experts/Journeymen, apprentices/undergraduates, and us fans of the Trades) about the cool stuff you do as part of your job.
Cheers
Good to see this tip First, thing to say is I am not a pro plumber. But I have done this several times when installing new plumbing runs. A central heating system operates at more than 1 bar or 14 psi, so I use a foot pump with a pressure guage and never go above that. I've done this to test sections of plumbing before filling with water, leaving it pressurised for several minutes. Air leaks out a lot quicker than water, so you can tell very quickly if something's wrong. I push the button in the middle of the valve to release the air safely.
What great timing for this video. Just about to air test my own new system. Was racking my brain on the best way to attach the pump. Cheers.
The best video for me this year. Brilliant.
I made a pressure test rig as I was doing loads of plumbing in my house - with a pressure gauge and 22mm and 15mm end so I could attach it to either. I wish I'd known about the schrader tip here, as the way I attached mine was MASSIVELY more complex. I only tested it to 1bar and then left it for an hour to see if the gauge moved. Allowed me to find a couple of tiny leaks easily with water spray and fairly liquid. No leaks when I finally filled the system, and happy days as it was another massive job that I saved a packet on doing my own extension... which i will eventually finish, maybe in the mid 2030s.
2030 😂 I know the self-build struggle..
Brilliant......I've always wondered how pros do this. Just ordered my Schrader valves.
Rodger i have been in the building trade my whole working life and i have never seen anyone use this nice trick i must say i am always impressed with your content on this channel and every topic you cover A++++
I think it’s how fast or slow a loss of pressure the clue to rads or boiler .
Slow drop rads ! Just like that out of the blue a few times boiler ! Valve or diverter ? Minute leak HW exchanger ?
Am I talking nonsense lol 😂
Do they not test the plumbing in a new build before slab is poured at all? Just hope for the best
You are a font of information Roger. You have steered me through a lot of stuff here in Northern France !!!
Keep up the good work please !!
Very clever. We had the water level in the CH header tank going up and down with the cold water tank in the loft. The ball valve had scaled up and ran very slowly so I suspected a slow leak in the hot water cylinder coil. The plumber disconnected the coil from the CH system and did an air pressure test. He came back the next day and the pressure had dropped indicating a leak. The cylinder was replaced, but I didn’t appreciate the possibility of CH inhibitor mixing with our hot water, so I’ll probably get a combi boiler when we replace it.
brilliant info and safety tip
Excellent video !!
What a great tip. Your advance warning was sufficient, and in fact a bicycle pump came to mind even before you mentioned it. There's always going to be that One Guy ... (thanks for posting!)
Thinking of coverting from open to closed system, this test would come in really handy.
thanks very informative!!!
Thanks Roger, yet another piece of sage advice. Hitherto I'd never considered using air to pressure test.
Very pleased to find this , with this cold I didn't want to fill an underfloor heating system in a conservatory that's got no doors or window in yet ,
Brilliant idea. Simple and safe , if you think, as you say.
I use predominantly push fits now and been using them for about 15yrs. Only had one leak and that was because the pipe was marked. On compression fittings I use paste. Rarely solder. I feel confident enough to say that I never pressure test and (so far) it’s been great. Although, I think pressure testing is the right thing to do.
Useful video.
Thank you.
What a fabulous tip
Wish I'd known about this for the last 40 years
You are Hydraulic Master! Thank you!!
Thank you so much for this tip with the valve 👍 I am retired plumber and I have a one off job to do where I need to dry pressure test,
I went to get my dry test kit and it is nowhere to be found and I didn’t want to spend £30-£50 on a one off job To replace the dry pressure valve, thanks again Roger. This has just saved me a lot of money 👊, keep up the great work with the videos 👍
Glad to help
Exactly what I was looking for 👍
Air testing could be dangerous. Says a man who puts gas in pipes and uses a blow torch.😉😉. Very informative video rodge 👍👍
“Guns don’t kill people, rappers do” great video, schreider great tip
Fantastic! 👍
Thanks for the visit
Thank you, Rodgers learnt something new today , question when using compression fitting I see in the usa they tighten the crap out of it . They way I was taught is to tighten by hand them continue with a half turn with a spanner / wrench if it leaks another quarter turn until it is tight . If you over tighten it deformed the olive / brass ring.
Would you agree . Keep making the vids always great information and advise .
Was on a Site today in London where they are doing exactly this.
With a compressor though.
For all the same reasons.
Much easier and quicker to identify and fix the faults without the big draindown!
Been air testing for yrs .its ideal for ufh especially on exposed sites prior to pouring slab. Using large 500 m coils generally you'll have just two connections lever valve with blank one end and pressure gauge at the other leaving manifold until 2nd fix.
This is great, came across it as I need to test my underfloor heating to pressure. I was thinking of filling the system a Dan extra length of pipe outside of the system, stuck a shrader valve on the end and pressurise that, shouldn't force any air into the system itself, than I can just isolate the ufh and leave it for 24 hours, pressure gauge on the manifold.. Can't see and issue?
Gonna get one! I like the soap test as its definate, leak or not, since pressurised air can vary with temperature plus a large volume of air could take a long time to drop pressure enough to be sure its leaking
It is surprising how much the gauge drops even when you open up one radiator air cock.
@@SkillBuilder that would be like a big leak. Anythinglike a drip would take a long time. Frustratingly, most of my 'fails' have been radiator tails. Seems like you have to wind and wind ptfe tape forever to avoid leaks. I always screw the tails in and out 'bare' first to remove any sharp bits that might tear the ptfe
Awesome, that's what I'll be doing tomorrow
Quite brilliant-) Would you leave the pump connected?
Thanks for this tip Roger. 1-2 bar isn’t going to create missiles and this would be a real help for us DIY’ers.
How much pumping should be required to start pressurising the system? I've laid new push-fit pipe work to replace the old CH system and would like to test it. I've rigged this up and capped all the pipes that will connect to the radiators. Should I expect to be pumping a good bit or should I see the gauge move fairly quickly after I begin pumping? There is a main run of 22mm pipes with branches of 15mm out to different radiators.
Great idear Roger. Never had a leek on a soldered fitting, it's all down to preparation. I used to test my joints by Topping the system up venting off and then tapping each joint if there was an issue it would show.
It depends how you work. Putting central heating in an occupied house and leaving every joint uncovered so you can tap it puts a lot of rooms out of action. I air test room by room so I can put the boards and carpets back.
What does tapping a joint mean?
Automatic air vent isolation is a good idea, aavs in modern boilers too....
As a trainee site engineer many many moons ago this is how 6" or 4" etc rainwater drainage was tested prior to backfilling using pipe end stops and a certain air pressure pumped in.If the pressure held backfill and lay the next few lengths and so on.I forget the tolerance of psi loss per minute now though.Basically if air cant escape water cant.
Hi Glenn
Drainage is still tested with air but it is very low pressure.
CLEVER!
Smart man.
Great tip, I'm going to be trying soldering for the first time on my combi boiler system. What's the best way to let the pressure back out. Pressing the valve pin in? Undoing a bleed valve on a rad?
Anything so long as it is gentle
@@SkillBuilder cheers. I've got a bike pump with gauge so will be able to ensure I've only put in the minimum needed too.
What bar is correct? I heard some say 5bar some say 3 for dry testing?
Its also a useful hack for unblocking microbore.
I love you sir!
My dad taught me this technique, always released the pressure through the tyre valve. Just remember you get all the energy out that you put in, 5 min work on the pump can come out in less than a second, and if it brings a bit of brass with it you've made yourself an air rifle.
Exactly
Hi Rodger; I’m a plumber of over 20 years, I generally use air for pressure testing as well, particularly for first fixing, I do use wet testing, but find it a pain to remove the water from the pipework for soldering. A question for you; what pressure is industry standard? I test at 2 bar for 30mins, then 5 bar for the same time, and have done for years. Recently I’ve had some problems with some speedfit fittings leaking, speedfit say to test at 2 bar for 10mins, then 10bar for 10mins, that seems extreme and dangerous particularly like you say cap ends popping off and bouncing around at a hundred miles an hour! Also, when doing my apprenticeship we used to test like that and had loads of leaks afterwards we think because of stretching the grip rings. My concern is that would speedfit honour any warranty issue if we test at a lower pressure? Also on combined copper & plastic systems would the extra pressure cause any damage to copper pipework and fittings (old or new)? Many thanks
I like to test pipe work at 40 BAR using OFN,, but that is on an AC system fit for R410a
good
I worked on a church renovation and the undercroft had underfloor heating and £50k worth of hardwood flooring. The underfloor heating was tested with an air-pressure test and passed. When they switched the water on, a section of pipe started to leak and the flooring above it got wrecked. When the flooring was taken up, the section of pipe had several holes drilled into it, like a flute.
You can get a perfect seal in plastic pipe if you screw through it
@@SkillBuilder well not perfect if it held air but not water lol. Seems this air method is not bulletproof from what I read in comments
If possible would be good to see you using this method in practice on a project Roger.
I thought I did, may be I was watching another video.
@@SkillBuilder Well seems you were Roger, seeing my comment offended you. But then I only keep subscribing for Dan Cox appearances.
@@SkillBuilder roger is there a button on this valve to safely release the pressure as i carnt see it from the picture any help would be most grateful thankyou for the video
Agree that this is a very good idea and very well executed. Just use a manual pump at less than 1 bar and take the obvious site precautions indicated. I'm off to get a Scraper valve. I suspect that Kwikfit or any tyre dealer will have 1000s of old ones lying about as they replace one for every new tyre sold....
They have hundreds of old ones but when I ask for them they give me a fist full of new ones
In my house 20yrs ago they did pressure test for the city code un USA. Just curious the dif techniques
Does the UK not have test gauges. We air test all the time. This video may be about testing existing pipe work. I’m referring to new construction. There’s lots of times where you don’t have water to do a live water test. We have to pump it to 80psi because that’s the maximum allowable water pressure. We have to use a gauge because the inspector needs to see it. I’ve even done work at TX state university and they are basically a municipality unto themselves. The use UPC but have lots of their own exceptions. I did a live water test and was told it wasn’t sufficient. I had to air it up to 125 psi. As for testing existing systems, we use a test gauge that fits on hose threads. You put it on a hose Bibb or washer box, turn it on so it pressurizes then turn the water off to seal the system. If it holds for 15 min, it’s good.
Hi Josh
Yes we have a lot of devices for testing but this is just a little trick using something you can pick up for nothing. We usually test with water but it is stressful.
Does the system have to be drained/dry, or can you air test with it mostly filled? Incidentally, my Stanley is the tool I'm scared off the most!
You can do it with water and air
Good video ,,but use ldf (leak detection fluid) if you can as washing up liquid is corrosive.also a strength test is usually 1.5 x the operating pressure so as a 1.5 x 1.1 bar allow some time for temp stabilzation and stay below 3 bar incase it trips any prv,s ( pressure relief valves..but defo better to test if you can before any flooring etc goes back down...keep up the good work..cheers
Do you leave the olive in before fitting the valve?
No
I’m sure the guy with the funny hair cut has a fancy machine that costs a right few Bob,In the shipyard we test a ship with 2lbs and that finds cracks and missed welds all over the place Dangerous to go any higher I kid you not.
Well I never, that saves a lot of ballache! There's me drilling holes in 22mm compresion cap ends and fitting the bolt in shrader valves. BTW, they work great in a pneumatic unblocker with a makita air pump ;D
I started by using the end cap and a nut but discovered the car tyre valve works better.
I work on site and have always water tested. Didn’t know air testing wasn’t allowed and just assumed it was because it isn’t very time efficient when It came to finding a leak.
Would you trust this rubber schrader valve on new build pipework at 10 bar
10 bar is dangerous. The schrader will hold but if a fitting flys off at 10bar that is a bullet
Thats exactly how i made my air testing kit
If you are going to air test , turn off all the radiators both sides first . Minimum air content then. If it’s on a combi you could always isolate the boiler as well.
Manufactured a 35mm low loss header and mixing valve recently in my own home. Air tested it up to 3 bar and it held for 24 hours. When I installed it , it leaked on one joint like a sieve. Be warned that air testing sometimes will not show up a water leak. Don’t ask me why, but apparently it’s known about in the trade!
Well then this method is useless
Does anyone do the opposite I.e. vacuum testing, or probably pressure reduction to see if the system will hold a partial vacuum. Could prevent anything ‘blowing off’. I would guess a full vacuum could in theory collapse/buckle radiators or tanks etc.
good diea though so long as you don't let suck sess go to your head.
👌
Great odea im doing a referb at the minute anyone tried this on plastic pipeing(speedfit)
yes it works on push fit as well as solder and compression
What size Schrader valve is that ?
The one that you can find in any car tyre place. Just ask and they will give you some
👍👍👍
We where advised never to air test by the HVCA years ago.as we would not be insured.
yes water is safer, it just floods houses and gets into the electrics.
Brilliant. Just like finding a puncture in your BMX inner tubes. Shame Mythbuster is no longing airing. I'd like to see them fabricate a house and pump up the heating system until it explodes..... So we don't have to 🤭🤔😵💫
Didnt they did that already!? It was escaping from prison by inflating to bust the door
1 bar is approximately the same pressure as atmospheric pressure , so I guess that say 1.5 or 2 bar ish may be better to test for leaks?
1 bar is the compressed pressure on the guage. I suppose you could say it is 1 bar above atmospheric pressure so it is two bar. If you have pipework going up 9.8 metres to the top of a house you have 1 bar right there.
1 barA = 0 barG
1 barG = 2 barA
But absolute pressure (atmospheric pressure) isn't a constant, it changes with weather and heights
It is my understanding that air testing should not be done on underfloor heating systems or other pex pipework.
Is this not the case?
Nice vid. Might be worth mentioning how dangerous it is to pump oxygen into a gas supply though!
Who mentioned pumping air into gas supply!?
👍
The danger that you are talking about is called stored energy and as you stressed it a lot, it is very dangerous. I worked on a big project (process) and we were only allowed to gas (nitous) test pipeowrk that was not supposed to carry liquids and only gases and we did not want contamination. If I remeber correctly, only 2 out of 30 systems were tested this way.
Doesn't air/gas, and therefore air testing, require tighter fittings than water? Can you get a lot of false positives this way as you find "leaks" that might not happen in a water system?
Plumbers do air test on site these days rodge. Heating/water at 7 bar. Even stacks get tested with air now because the nhbc prefer it to a wet test
Stacks have always been tested with air but it is very low pressure. If you are telling me there are 7 bar air tests going on without the area being cordoned off I am surprised because the HSE don't allow it.
I can pump my boiler central heating system safely upto 2.5 bar with water. why is it more dangerous using air instead if the pressure in the system is also 2.5 bar?
I can't understand why the same pressure under air is more dangerous?
air is compressible water is not so when you pump up a tyre and it burst there is energy being released.
Always air test my systems before fill up best way of checking all the grab rings on pushfit and highlights compression fittings that need more tightening or paste saves causing a leak and draining down.
What about releasing the air?....
gently
Doesn't air compress though? I was under the impression that air testing, especially over larger spans of pipes, was less reliable than water testing.
Will still show a leak
@@Giftedmike359 But wouldn't you get a false reading if the air appeared to drop? I know you can test all joints with soapy water I guess.
Air compresses but that will not give you a false reading. When you stop pumping the only pressure fluctuation are due to heat.
@@SkillBuilder ahh! Ta.
AH MATE , ME AN A COPPLE BLOAKS DID AN AIR TEST ON A COURT YARD SISTIM , WE HAD TO NOTIIFY THE QUEEN HERSELF WITH PERMISSION , WAH A DAY SHE WAS !!
We just use plastic push fit to test with compressor
Great idea but not fool proof. When a CH system is charged with water and heated you can get expansion leaks which air will not show.
That is true, I had some carbon deposists wash out of brand new copper tube that held up on air. The thing is, most leaks will show up and a lot of the time it is just the plumber forgetting to solder a joint or do up a compression nut.
Um. So the guages you get for spinning onto a hydrant and checking pressure? Take the swivel off. The shradar valve wiggles into that hole now you can plug on to a hydrant or washing machine valve. We only air test. 80psi fir water 5psi for drain. You testing a bathroom with that bike pump? Your stored energy is same result with water. Except dryer. Your gonna be there forever with that pump. Strap your pipe and nothing goes flying. It’s copper not plastic.
The stored energy with water is not the same because it isn't compressed. You can't compress water
I had a guy put in a rigid gas connection to our new gas hob …. He then said I need to test it a took a friggin lighter out of his pocket 😳😱.
Luckily I’m still here 😬🧱👍🏽
ive seen this bullshit too. Only a little flame formed on the pipe leak but I refused to work with that guy again.
It is quite a common trick,or was. When you light a gas cooker you are doing the same thing. The danger is aways a build up of gas rather than the bit you know about. I have seen a guy repairing gas in the road with a cigarette. He showed me how hard it is to light an open ended gas pipe.
@@SkillBuilder 😳😳😳🧱👍🏽
@@SkillBuilder like the scene in films, where the bad guy throws a cigarette into a pool of petrol, and the whole thing goes up... in reality, it would extinguish the cig as soon as it hit.
@@johnriggs4929 Wrong the cigarette would ignite petrol vapour first.
I fart in the pipe. No smell means I have an airtight connection.
No thanks
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6 bar. Wtf were you testing airplane tyres.
All the warning should be good enough for people NOT TO DO THIS.
Whilst I am never to old or experienced to learn new tricks, this one will never 👎 be attempted by myself.
Air pressure is a required test for water and sewer lines in most US building code sites, they make rubber seals for waste lines so you can pressure test them.
We test drainage with air but it is very low pressure.
Always used an air tester on full houses, 20 minutes at 1 bar is plenty to see if there's a leak anywhere. Good for testing Gas pipes prior to final connection.
Interesting that gas lines are tested at pressures that are so low an unsoldered fitting will hold with the flux alone.
1 bar is the baseline pressure, so it wouldn't do much