GM PERFORMANCE B15 LSX CRATE PT 1-NA, CAMS & 23 PSI!
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- Опубликовано: 5 сен 2024
- FULL NA & WHIPPLE BOOSTED RESULTS, LS9 VS COMP, NA VS BTR. PLUS, AS ALWAYS, WE ADD MORE BOOST FROM THE WHIPPLE SUPERCHARGER! CHECK OUT PART 1 OF THIS VIDEO DETAILING THE FIRST MODS WE MADE TO A GM PERFORMANCE B15 LSX CRATE MOTOR. THE B15 STOOD FOR 15 PSI, BUT WE TOOK IT WAY PAST THAT! HOW FAR YOU ASK? HOW DOES 23 PSI SOUND?
This guy's voice, and the way he talks, is like that cool science teacher that inspires all his students. Awesome guy.
Look at that torque. A flatland like from Saskatchewan to East of Winnipeg, or in USA terms...as flat as Kansas!
Great test. 😁
I've been across Kansas, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba. Kansas isn't that flat!
Kansas is all rolling hills.
All i can say is everyone who viewed this wanted to hear that whipple.
U tube. LSX 376 + whipple = earthquake
@@leestevens9214 Thank you Lee!
Sigh. Where were you when I was young, building my "70 split bumper Camaro? So much knowledge, such a can do spirit. You are my engine building hero.
My first car
When my two year old hears the disco music 🎵, she starts dancing 💃.
My kind of gal-cherish those moments brother!
@@richardholdener1727
Yes
*techno music
I like disco house or it’s called Nu-disco. If u can find more Nu-disco instrumental versions. That be cool. Pretty much what u have. Better dance punch beats.
4l whipple danggggg
Right!? A 4L is a BIG blower...lmao
Theyre a pita to build haha
Fucking thing of beauty!!!
I dont think we can find these in a junkyard
I'm a Car Craft fan and I remember the work you did with the B15. I need to hit the lottery tonight so I can duplicate LMRs standing mile 461 LSX. What a beast. I miss Car Craft and Krass and Bernie.
Richard, you are the GOAT! Please don't ever stop doin' your thaaang!
Please dyno vintage Datsun L20b or L28 or even the Toyota hemi pushrod 1.8l 3tc. All were legendary in their day, over 40 yrs ago. Never see them anymore. Really enjoy your videos!!!
Can't afford one but can build one. Go Richard.
That torque "curve" would be a party in a truck!
My conclusion is that I need a much higher paying job so I can afford fun toys like that.
Honestly you can go spend ~$800 on a junkyard 6.0 and get the same results. And as far as boost is concerned a 5.3 will do the same as well, just takes more air crammed in per HP made lol.
Dang buddy you are swamping us with these videos. Don't spoil us we might get use to it. Haha thanks
I have the b-8 version. I had TKM Do all the machine work. Stuffed in a Callies Dragonslayer 4.00 crank. Callies Enforcer 2.100 rods with diamond 4.125 piston with a 23 cc dish for a 9.5:1 CR. The 821 heads were sent to Frankinstein for their stage 3 CNC program. Went to Cam Motion For a custom Solid roller cam. Specs are 248/264, .700"/.688" 116+5. ( dedicated Procharger cam) With the addition of the F3-121 procharger, I'm shooting for 2500 HP. Dropping all this into a 1970 Monte Carlo I've had for 23 years.
I’m kinda loving that NA cam with the blower, that flat response.
What I've noticed in your other video's is when a turbo is used to make 14 to 15 lbs boost, it basically doubles whatever the na hp was of that same engine. This engine made 532 na with the cam upgrade so, if you used a turbo to make the boost the hp would have been over the 1,000 hp mark with only 15 lbs boost. With the Whipple at 16 lbs boost it only made 880 or so hp. So this Whipple requires about 120 hp or more from the crank to make that amount of boost lowering the total hp output on the dyno readings.
The turbo video will show over 1,050 hp with only 15 lbs boost is my prediction. I'm not sure what 23 lbs boost will be but it will be BETTER!
Greatest show on earth
Great work Richard-looking forward to part 2 and part 4 of the SBF head series. Thank you!
parts 1-3 are up
Hey Richard, I’ve been watching your videos for a while and every time I do it feels like I’m sitting down in class and learning about a subject I actually care about. Love it.
This video is probably not the right spot for this question but I know you read comments. Nitrous spool aid, have you done any testing on helping those big laggy turbos on smaller motors with the laughing gas? If so, could you make a video dedicated to nitrous as a spool aid?
I know your typical dyno sessions are not the transient conditions we see on the street and track with a nice consistent load but I think it would interesting to see the difference between NA, Nitrous only, Boost only and Nitrous + Boost.
:) thanks man!
see the nitrous intercooler video-nitrous adds lots of boost response
I'm patently waiting for the straight 6. Would love to see what you could do with a flathead v8. Love the oddball stuff with BOOST!
ruclips.net/video/YQImX9ajJF4/видео.html
I love your videos Richard Holdener, but there is two engines that are not represented AMC and International. In my humble opinion those definitely qualify for "The other Guys" International made some big cube engines and the 401 AMC was a monster. It would be very interesting to see what those old units were capable of with todays technology! Thanks.
yes they do
All I want for Christmas is more L99 and LT1
i would love to hear you talk about the different characteristics such as idle quality and gas consumption differences between the cams
no way to measure MPG on the engine dyno
ill take a guesstimate hahaha@@richardholdener1727
Lots of that engine is stock parts. The block and heads seem unique to that application but lots of the internals are picked off the assembly line. Given how well factory gaskets and bolts work I don't know if they need to be better for the sake of them being better. Same goes for the valvesprings. Those factory ls3 springs are almost free and will work with the camshaft that come in the engine, changing them just because they could be better when they won't be for some people increases the cost without purpose. The camshaft is a factory ls7 cam and works with those springs and 1.7 rockers. It would be nice if they had the engine come in a tuner version, no valve springs, camshaft. Lots of guys that are buying this will already have enough knowhow to get a cam that works for them. Not everyone can install valve springs but if you can put on an intake manifold and oil pan you can probably assemble a set of heads.
Great stuff- Bigger cam guess: +15 HP top end at same rpm, and +15 Torque down low....slightly more powa everywhere!
I miss car craft mag.😔
I been seeing you in all kind of mags Richard since I was a young boy. 36 today.. 🤣🤣🤣
Lsx ftw!
Can’t wait for video 2!
Great comparison NA to Whipple to turbo!
That boosted torque curve though....🤤
Now that’s the kind of power and torque I need in my ‘01 2500HD gasser!!
Boost is a measure of backpressure in the intake, it's not making more power with less boost - it's able to ingest more air and have less backpressure in the intake. The blower is still moving the same amount of air. If you swap the cam on a blower car and boost goes down you've made gains! With a turbo car you don't see it as easily because the wastegate maintains the same boost - you have to look at fuel injector duty etc. to spot it. Looking forward to the turbo tests, I am curious about the power level at equal boost levels. You'll have backpressure in the intake but no drag from the blower pulley. You might have cooler air too but the power will probably not come on as low nor the torque depending on the turbo sizing. Very much looking forward to seeing how that works out!
Just the way you got it on the first test looked pretty sweet to me for a hot rod street car motor,great hp and torque curve.
Supercharger all the way
More vote is yes that boost blew thru the motor and went out the exhaust.
Nice ! But it would be nice with turbo on L99 !! Sweden is waiting : )
boosted l99 is coming
I'm excited for that turbo A/R test 👀
Way to go!
Ls3 is what they force on us in the shops, support us fellow junkyard Budget guys can relate too
The boost difference in the 2 cams is because of the backpressure caused by the valve events and the lobe separation..
Judging by the power curve, I would say that cam netted you 50hp at the top.
Lower boost is because the Supercharger cam is more efficient for boosted application (pumps more air).
Turbo will make more power if it is sized sufficiently. It will definitely make more power per lb boost.
If the turbo has the supporting mods it needs and everthing else equal, it will make more power at the same boost - the turbo does not have the power lose associated with driving the blower off the crank.
ill take them yellow beehive springs for my LT1! nice to see what the big dogs are doing.
One of my grudge buddies has a B15 with a BTR cam, ARP hardware and the same FITech setup as I run save for the surge tank my system has and that thing has taken so much abuse at a much higher power level than it’s technically designed for but never skips a beat. I’ve seen him put down well over 1000 at the wheels and run dozens of all out passes at that power level every season for a couple years now. The thing is a solid piece. It doesn’t quite hang with my iron block 370 build but realistically if we had more equal setups it probably would; he runs a big single, PTE 8385 while I’m now running twin 7675 Gen 2s @ 1.12. I think his single is currently 1.28 and where I really get him is out of the hole. I out 60’ and 330’ and then typically the space between us doesn’t grow any after that if we run 660, but if we run a full 1320 I’ll put a little more space between us up top.
NICE
You also didn't bring us the gen 1 sbc 350 on boost vs ls on boost shootout either! Its been months sir,
Turbo should definitely put down more 23psi on a 376" lsx should make 1100-1200
I would guess the turbo will make more, only because it's independent of the crankshaft. Not sure how much or if significant.
Richard if a person is using a single turbo and the back pressure is higher than the boost pressure, if the cam has overlap it seems that during the overlap period the exhaust will reverse and back up in the chamber and possibly go back in the intake manifold and cause problems
I am pretty sure that the B15 comes with the LS7 cam, which has very similar specs to the LS9 cam, but not exactly the same.
it does-my mistake-same power from both cams
Love the content but you never did the 5.7ls shootout Richard, how can you totally ignore the O.G. ls that started it all?
Big Bang B15
The difference between the 227° and 231° cams is likely minimal, I’d guess 5-10 hp NA. The BTR blower cam NA should look a bit different with intake closing (IC) coming much later. If the 469 cam is sitting at 109° intake centerline, the IC at 0.050” is 44.5°. If the BTR cam is advanced +4, the intake centerline is 115° which makes IC at 54.5°, a 10° later event. That should push the power peak up by more than 500 rpm, I’m guessing. OTOH, the BTR cam has less overlap by several degrees which may take away a little of the mid range. When the 4L Whipple is pushing air in it doesn’t make much difference as shown by the table top-like torque curve. The 469 cam might make a touch more mid-range and peak earlier, but the power is so high you might not notice. Using the pressure ratio function, 23 psi should raise a 550 hp (guess of NA hp with the BTR cam) to about 1400. This suggests the Whipple is eating 400 hp off the front of the crank, though some of that could be charge temperature. I’m guessing the B15 with a suitable turbo is going to make close to 1400, though. Looking forward to part 2 Richard, thanks!
im betting the tubski will make within 15 of the same HP @ the same boost but cost 5k less..... when you do the Whipple vs. Turbo video please include build cost.
Not sure where to add this, have you ever done a draw thru turbo video? Many years ago many companies offer draw thru turbo plenum manifolds. I heard they do nor make quite as much horsepower as a blow thru , but would love to see a video.
I don't think it would have been much of a change at all because the cams were very similar even the lobe sep was only a degree different. In the BTR cam the power would have been much greater if the lobe sep was closer to the 469 comp cam..
Good Stuff!!!
The idea that boost leaks out with some cams is a very complicated question. Reasonable cams like a 227/236-110 are meant allow the engine to breathe at up-to 110% volumetric efficiency if you subscribe to the concept of a header working like a manometer. Your tests reflected that 10% change in boost rather clearly. I'm inclined to think that boost doesn't start to leak out in a profound way unless you use an NA cam that has too much duration for the application, then run the blower. Like, an LS3 with a 248/254-112.
More power with the turbo is a given!
More low speed power/torque from 227, but would kind of peter out up top compared for the 231. The extra 247 exhaust duration certainly helps it out up top though.
Hey brother nice to see more great videos thanks again
Looking forward to the turbo stuff. I would like to see some stroked ls3 416 with single turbos. Looking for great turbo response and 1000-1200 hp. Will pull a trailer with this combo in my truck.
Also I’m looking at cams and don’t understand if larger displacement means I need a larger cam.Just in case you need content ideas...
love the channel!
I love twins,spool way better than a big huge one.anyway liked the cam with 119 lsa
Richard, do you pin th balancer to the crank when running a blower on LS engines?
yes
HANDS Holdener! 👐
I'm guessing the turbo will get a hundred and fifty more horsepower at the same boost
I'm changing my guests to 1320 horsepower at 23 pounds of boost with a turbo if it's one to one back pressure
You must have read the Car Craft article on the B15.
Hi Richard! Check out Wesley Kagan's RUclips chanel. He built a home made version of a free valve system. A little more development, and this could blow up quick!
Let’s get the nova videos rolling.
On behalf of the people we have spoken, WE DEMAND SATISFACTION! Show us the truths we so desire to do away with myths they feed us !!!!!!
More power at the same boost with the turbo, but not a lot more.
Turbo with intercooler, 1000+ at 15.8 psi.
“Rev the piss out of it” sounds like you have spent some time around us Australians.
186 more hp with a turbo at 23lbs of boost
Sounds like about the power they say it takes to spin a big blower at that boost?
The next time you get a chance , or if you remember . Do you mind giving a quick .02¢ about a quick break in procedure for a crate motor ? 5.3 to be exact but assuming it won’t be far off from other crates .
we do a break in cycles (usually 2) on the dyno-it varies engine speed and load from 2000-3000 rpm for a specific time or number of cycles
Turbo will always make more power up top due to the parasitic drag of the blower. Free power right 🤪
Keep up the good work 👍
Wow!! Again, ok I think the turbo application at the same boost will make less power up top, but more power through out. If my memory serves me well, your other videos, comparing turbos and supercharger, the turbo makes better over all power, were the supercharger climbs like the price is right game, cliff hanger,lol.
I disagree with you on this. Parasitic losses with the blower makes it less efficient. Torque curve won't be as flat with the turbo.
Turbo will make less power very early on and later surpass it .
@@steveletson6616 thanks for the reply. I am a newbie to turbos. I will look into this further. Parasitic losses? I haven't a clue how this effects anything. But I will find out. This is a very Interesting discussion. Thanks again.
@@pjmccoy4216 Basically the exhaust gasses and pressure is always going to be there to be harvested by the turbo even if you don't use one. It's almost free. Spinning a blower with a belt off the crank pulley will sometimes take hundreds of horsepower to spin and makes more heat past certain boost levels. Not saying one is better than the other. Depends on what you want to do with this power and how you plan on applying it.
Great video Richard! With these noted changes (springs and head studs with new cam), roughly how long do you think this combo would live at those higher boost levels (23psi) making ~1000hp?
not sure on longevity
So I know that compound boost is much more rare but I'd like to see a positive displacement blower with a turbo if you have that test on an LS
I’d like to see more 90s lt1 stuff.
did the whipple have a intercooler? I'm guessing more power from the turbo setup, no drive loss like the blower....likely I'll be sent to the back of the class for that one...lol
I think the turbo will make 100 more hp at 3500 rpm. Or where it comes on. But I think at 6700 rpm only 60 more hp if the boost is the same as the wipple.
Right on
I would guess at the same boost level the turbo would make more power because it does not have the parasitic loss the blower would have.
It will make more power per pound of boost with the turbo then the whipple ,because it is so much easier to spin a turbo.
I was really surprised how little some cam changes produce. 30 hp is not very much of a difference at 6700 rpm, I guess it would be more dramatic if it were a comparison of a bad cam versus a top of the line one
Always wanted this test, good one
What kind of coffee do you drink?
Irish!
I think the turbo will make more power with less boost. What do you think if he let you go 3.00 inch pulley and 7k? Too much boost? Blow up? Belt slip? 1100? 1200? Take it like a champ?
GM confuses me . I guess I need a code book? I think (depending on the turbo) , it will have more lower end power and maybe fade where the blower is doing its best at the top 😉
I know this is mostly ls channel but can you do a video with a boosted vq motor?
The snail is definitely going to make more power midrange to top.how about the Buick?
I want to do a similar build but with the turbo
let the fun begin
I think the 231 cam made 10-12 hp more than the 227 cam.
Mr. Holdener,
would it be possible to measure the dynamic compression ratio ? So we could figure out the static compression. The compression is hardly ever mentioned , only described as "high" or "low", very seldom the static compression is told. That extra data point could help engine guys a lot.
Thank you.
Hello Richard still waiting on the rest of the 3800 stuff I'm currently turboing a 3800 can't wait to see you what you have information wise for me
Great video
I wonder if the blower has shorter runners as the peak power rpm seems higher with the first blower pull
I'm really surprised it didn't make more power than that at 23 PSI. What was holding it back? I would have expected that thing to be pushing 1100 easy
Rich, I have a request. I got a totaled van for scrap value the other day. has the 2v 6.8 v10 in it. Been looking for a unique engine to put in my 04 mustang. I found a set of comp cams(they only ones that offer a single grind) for the motor, got a set of cheap ebay pistons, ive started the head porting and rods are stock units as is the crank. I figure I'll be around 12.5:1 which is where I want to be. I'll be making an intake for it myself and running a holley 930 with a 200 plate - assuming I can get the msd box to fire the coils like on the 4.6/5.4 if not then i'll use MS3. I'll be running M1 in it - was wondering if you ever played with a high compression v10 or have one in the works? I LOVE the sound, and this one is a 350 dollar build so i figured i'd just jack up the compression and throw some juice on it and see what it does in the 1/8th
I have not