FYI: This is my progress on my half of the miniatures I need for my half of the campaign - 3 x FW Dunland heros - 6 x FW dunland huscarls - 12 wild men of dunland - 12 Dunland Warriors - Thyrdan Wolfsbane - 6 Dunland Horsemen - Vrasku - Ugluk - Mauhur - 18x Wars - 24 x Uruk Scouts - 4 Captains with shields - 30 Uruk Warriors - 12 Crossbows - 16 Berserkers - 5x ladders - 3x demolotiin teams We have a long way to go!
Looks like you did great. It also seems like Victrix deserves the attention. Thank you for bringing attention to better priced alternatives. If GW wanted to compete, they could lower their ridiculous prices...
That's the problem, there's no one else big enough and willing to compete with them ! It's the same problem Lego has. I guess once 3D printing becomes cheaper and easier, things might change, hopefully not hurting Victrix though
Another great video, no need to feel guilty, game how you want, never had any issues using proxy models and would never not play someone because of it. Bonus is you now have an entire Viking Army for Saga right there 😁
I'm in my 60s now & I used to joke with my dad, why he called my older brother, Number one son 🤔 I said that I was Number one son as I did more about the house than he did 😜 Love your channel 👍
This army is gorgeous. And the dilemma about GW or not GW... well, Lord of the Rings was created by JRR Tolkien, not by GW so, I see no problem if you create yur own models based on Tolkien to play the game. In fact... now I want to buy some Victrix models.
@@KrullMaestaren proxy models have been used always. I remember a guy who used a Pepsi can as an ork Dreadnought because he couldn't afford one. He and his friends wanted to play, just it. And other hobby comunities use proxys usually. In Bolt Action you can use any brand, not only Warlord, and Warlord allows ti even in their official competitions. I don't understand why to be a GW's taliban fanboy unless if someone is a guy who don't really like hobbying and playing but only winning. GW is just a brand (and not the cheapest or even the better), not a god who deserves total submission and love.
@@joseluisnd75 In Battletech they let you use cartboard cutouts if you want as long as the facing is marked and you can tell what mech it's supposed to be. GW is just an a-hole company and has been for years.
Never have I wholeheartedly recommended a product as much as I would recommend Victrix. I got the late Anglo-Saxons bag, and it was worth it ! 60 Minis in one bag, and let me tell you I am left with a TON of spare parts
@@KrullMaestaren Re. AoS or 40K, it is certainly a more interesting question (to me at least) when the imagery/beings/models being proxied are specific GW IP as opposed to (say) more "generic" elves, dwarves, goblins, etc that are clearly grounded in the works of Tolkien and other authors. Tolkien himself was writing a pseudo-historical time-that-never-was, and using Saxons, Vikings, and the like to represent these seems very reasonable. And while GW may have the current licence to make Middle-Earth minis they aren't really the generators of the IP or look-and-feel of the IP - most of that came out of Jackson's LoTR movies, which in turn leaned very heavily on the imagery produced by long-time Tolkien illustrators Alan Lee and John Howe (to the point that they were both employed for the movies as creative artists). I also suspect that, as an older player, my thinking is coloured by growing up with pre-GW rulesets were the minis weren't made by the same company... and even now GW are the exception, not the rule. As for AoS or 40K... I personally prefer GW's minis... but it's not an absolute. My IG army has a far amount of 3rd party stuff in it, (mostly because I love Victoria Miniatures guard figures), but my Marines are all pure GW. Provided the proxies were unambiguous I really wouldn't care. TL;DR the very question of whether it's OK to use Victrix (or whoever) minis with GW rules for an LoTR game is basically nonsensical... honestly, I'm trying to imagine someone like Warlord insisting that only their official British 8th Army figures could be used with Bolt Action... total nonsense.
I recently picked up a couple kits from Victrix and they are magnificent (especially in cost, haha) -- Frostgrave and Oathmark kits are also tremendous. They've made me fall back in love with the hobby.
Their goblins, orcs (even demons if you do a bit of conversion work) and dwarfs are really great for middle earth, although they're in hero scale so might look a bit chunky compared to other LOTR minis
It is. I do this with all my middle earth now. Couple of "real" charachters and sprues, rest proxy and convert. And you know what? The finished army looks so much cooler.
Yeeees! I love seeing Victrix getting more and more publicity in the wider wargaming community! A LOT of their kits can be used for all sorts of fantasy armies. As for me... Well, my next project is a 700+ model Punic Wars project, with 90% of minis coming from Victrix :D. The two MASSIVE armies (with a lot of options for low cost branching into other armies like the Celts, Spanish etc...) cost me about 350 euros.
I don't play Middelearth, but I think your proxies look great. As far as useing proxies to play with, you could play with cardboard cutout AFAIC. Remember to paint the rim of the bases :-)
Is this OK you ask? Honestly, it's like watching a man wake up one morning and realise that he doesn't have to walk 5 miles over broken glass in bare feet each day to see the man he knows will punch him in the face again and again. The proxies are easily as good, if not better, give you far greater variety and are a fraction of the cost, The phrase "no brainer" comes irrestibly to mind. Great figures you produced, well done!
Also…it’s your hobby. If people dont like how you play it, then play with someone else. Also, as much as GW winge officially about this sort of stuff, they know it will happen and that it is a result of using their “premium” price model. So they have actively chosen to have this more prevalent so that their products are seen as “premium” and thus more desirable. But I will give them credit where it is due…their army books, codexes etc. are bloody premium. That art work is amazing and getting that look just right takes a lot of time.
Back in the day i watched so many videos of your skyrim videos. Now i am obsessed with minis and find this channel. Thank you so much for the wonderful content
I have just done the exact same! Our group wanted to play the war in Rohan scenarios, no one had any interest in that Dunland outlay, and then I found victrix. Great stuff. They look great!
I think you nailed it. I'd be more than happy to play with or against that "proxy". It's not even really a proxy. It's just the army from a different brand.
I love Victrix. My last monster sized project was a First Punic War battle. 476 infantry figures. Being able to use nearly every piece from every set with every other set, I was able to build an accurate Carthaginian army. Keep up the great work.
I have a GW Dunland army, but I really want to buy the Vitrix kits because they are just fantastic! Been to a few tournaments where people have brought the proxy army intermingled with some GW stuff and they look amazing.
I just buy a box of minis, paint it, then sell it for 3 times as much on ebay, usually they sell within a few days and then I just take that money and buy three times as many models. I just keep doing that process until I have a full army. I started off with a box of 10 chaos marines 2 months ago, now I have 70 marines, 2 forge fiends, 1 chaos lord with thunderhammer, 12 possessed, 2 obliterators and a venom crawler. if you are a good painter that can paint fast, this I what I suggest.
I want to start a Dunlending army myself to jump in and play but the prices in USD is ridiculous! These Victrix models might just do the trick for me though, thanks for sharing.
I play my skirmish games with Pathfinder Pawns, or meeples, or tokens. No 3D models required at all! I don't even use 3D terrain. I just use Loke Battlemats.
As long as there is a vaguely similar miniature to what you're playing it doesn't matter. Proxies are a great way to get more games for everyone. When I first got into Warhammer I was about 11 so it was impossible to put 2000pts together in GW models to play outside of my friend group. I would hate for someone as young (or any age really) as I was unable to wargame because they couldn't afford to play with GW models but could make an effort with all the wonderful proxxies available today that I didn't have access to.
Im pretty sure I heard in a podcast that Bob Naismith who used to sculpt for GW did a lot of the Victrix models tools I think they would fit in quite well in a MESBG.
Honestly if someone has an issue with you using similar miniatures as proxies they're probably not worth playing with. Especially with the prices for some minis sold by GW, getting fantasy or historical minis from other companies is a great way to bulk up numbers and create more visual variety in your army.
As someone who 3d Prints, long live the proxies, especially for your home games. I do understand the restrictions for "Official" Tournament/competitive play. but rarely play in those types of games
The Norman Cavalry kit is incredibly versatile. I've just completed some... well Norman Cavalry, but I'm honestly wondering if I should get another one to build some Saracens. The sculpts are just SO good.
Nothing wrong with proxies. Hell, we've used full on custom *characters* in some games. No company can tell people how to enjoy themselves. And repeditive sculpts are all to common, if one wants to be "pure" (a word laced with much sarcasm, on my part). Years ag I did the Dwarven army, and the only way to get variety was to paint their beards and the cloth under their armor differently. Now there are so many more options. Whether one's talking the Dwarves of Dain, the Klingon Empire or the New Jedi Order, there are do many gorgeous options on places like Etsy and Shapeways, many of which look incredible. Besides, holding a middle finger to the big companies is fun.
By now, If I could paint every Necron model I want, I would do so. Look you can come with Lego mini figs as your army and I still would fight against them.
I am in FULL SUPPORT of using proxies. Games workshop and Forge World pricing is just too much for me to justify. Plus like you’ve said, proxies offer more poses and variety. Your Dunlandings look great. Hobby on!
Well, obviously in an official Games Workshop setting this would be a no-no, but in just about every hobby group I have been in and played with in the last 30+ years, I don't think anyone would have an issue with this. Especially if you proxy minis that look good. (Using Space Marines a Rohan Army wouldn't go over well), but with what you have done - in my opinion - this just adds to the fun of the hobby - job well done. :)
If I can find better sculpts then GW then I will buy proxy’s, but usually games workshop has the best looking minis, if I can’t afford it I just buy won’t buy the game at all
I actually play quite a bit of MESBG. Normally I'm not a fan of proxies, but in this case, since so much of the Dunland range is in metal with a small range of poses, I'm cool with it. Especially if the Victrix Vikings (which I have for Saga) are blended in with the metals.
Pretty funny. I went the OTHER WAY and proxied my Dunlindings as Vikings some years ago! They worked pretty nice. My Rohirrum also did duty as Romano-British/English troops too.
I had been considering a Dunland for my new army this year. I will definitely be following your lead and going the route of victrix. GW options are wayyy too expensive and it’s hard to see why.
I could never argue against GW's quality, each mini is ridiculously modeled but the price ? oooh .. I would argue that labor costs (salaries/taxes etc) would be a major drive in cost, but Victrix also appears to be in the UK..yet for some reason a GW mini is about 3 euro/each while Victrix is about half an euro each (assuming we are talking about "cannon fodder" .
That's what I call a success! And honestly, about this being okay, GW can screw themselves with their insane price raises and anti consumer behavior, they reap what they sow with 3D-Printing, OPR, proxies etc. And everyone simping for a stock-listed company by getting mad about proxies can screw themselves too, who needs them. Thanks for sharing!
don't mind proxies for MESBG, especially since they use the same moulds since 20 years... personally I use 3D prints alongside original models I own since about 19 years
Awesome video, might grab the Victrix models myself. I don't think its necessary fair to say "these bow models that I have to chop up to make allow me to have more poses" when you could also just chop up the official GW dunlendings to get more poses through conversions. What you should say instead is, because they are all plastic, this is much easier to get a variety of poses.
More people must hear this. Just other day i ordered the isenguard battlehost. I then got on etsy and with just 100 i fleshed the army out significantly. Im talking charachters, crossbow guys, berserkers etc. GW equivelant would have cost WAY more.
I think proxies are just fine. I would have no problem playing someone who fielded them. The only time when they are not appropriate is in tournaments where the WYSIWYG rules are in effect or just tournaments in general. I love hybrids, proxies and kit bashing. As long as they can be easily identified and not too easily confused I say go for it. I am also a huge fan of saving money.
I have no problem with this, and to be honest your FLGS will be happy to help you with proxies. Forgeworld prices are just daft and even if you want to get real GW stuff from GW, the LOTR range seems under supported in terms of stock availability... most of it shows as being out of stock at GW so again, pay a visit to your FLGS for some of those proxies.
Proxy or not, it is game, so have fun. I remember that my friends and I in school used Cut Outs in the correct base size just to play this game. To answer your question, yes I would play against a proxy army.
60 models for only £35?! That is a deal hard to resist. Not only I would not mind playing against you I'd even create my own proxy army. With the ludicrous prices GW is asking is no wonder why more and more hobbyist are going for alternative models or 3d printers. I thought Wargames Atlantic had a good deal on models for 40K Imperial Guard (20-35 minis for $35usd) but now I learned Victrix is king for when ir comes to LOTR proxy armies. Cool videos man, please keep them coming!
Proxy is an art form in itself and should be completely accepted by any sain person. What is more important? To play a nice game with your friend or that he bought plastic from the correct company (that has 40% margins on top of it 😱)
I've started buying historical miniatures as alternatives for Lord of the Rings. Wargames Atlantic even do halflings which are great for Hobbit stand in plus they also have giant spiders as well.
So I am an old school historical gamer, so I come from a generation when people used to publish rules and you had to find miniatures to fit the period. Now having said that, I have all the miniatures from GW to play the Quest of the Ringbearer campaign. But I have been collecting GW LOTR for 20 years so I only had to buy a few new of the Forgeworld miniatures. It's your game, you are just using their rules. I have plenty of gamers in my group who use proxies. As long as you are not using World War II US Army for Dunlanding warriors, I have no problem with it. It is after all, a game. The only people who get anal about using proxies are MESBG players who play competitive tournaments. For narrative players like me, as long as the miniatures fit the narrative, the game is afoot.
These look great and very lord of the rings. I think ideally you would want to mix in some of the 'official' models and most get the most variety possible
Yeah, I noticed a lot of newer GW sets are monopose. Not to mention that you have fewer spare bits too. Which is a problem for Orks, because they were THE spare bits and converting / customization army.
The quality on those Victrix models is incredible. I recently picked up some WarGames Atlantic Dark Age Warriors 4 proxy, and while affordable they just don't match the victrix detail. Will definitely be going with them next time around
As long as the scale and wargear are correct I have no problem with people using proxies. Yours are amazing and i will definitely consider the same ....unfortunately everything in Australia is expensive...especially miniatures soo I don't expect to save much 😆 😆 😆 I'm also terrible at painting so I get comission painters to do it.... so yeah also increases the price. Models + painting my Gondor army cost about $1800
Funny thing is, i noticed that British english is undergoing a second vowel shif, transforming the lenguage, while australia, america and cannada are still the same. the TH sound is shifting from the normal sound towards an F or V sound. its not you alone. i noticed that with at least 10 different british youtubers who all pronounce three as free for example, or mother as mover ;-) interressting how lenguage evolves over time
Keen ear but the 'th' noise is still alive and well across the UK. The 'th' -> 'f' swap is a 'Thames Valley English' thing. Very similar to some of London's vernacular and is widely used in the south east outside the Thames valley but different to other distinctive talk in the SE like Essex. Its not really fair to say its representative of British vernacular speech at large, which is very varied.
No Problem with proxies. Especially when they are cheaper and look better than some of the GW miniatures. I began kitbashing my own Riders of Rohan with Victrix-Parts on my channel.
In Australia we pay 3 times more for the boxsets (in some cases) than anyone else around the world. The 3D printing scene has gone crazy here due to GW ripping up off. Go for it. Proxy your models and have fun. It is a game for god's sake!
Yeah, two main reasons I have moved more to the 3d prints or other manyfactorers on minis is GW's prices and monopose minies, as I love build every model looking individual and different.
The GWS prices in Australia are insane. Nearly twice the price in the UK when converted from AUD to pounds. So just buying the books is very expensive. Proxy’s for LOTR is a great idea. Doesn’t work well for AOS or 40K though.
No need to feel bad, GW doesn’t make it easy for it’s MESBG fans. I feel you on the scenario books, I want to be able to go through and play them in their entirety but it costs so damn much money to do so! And as a High Elf player, I feel your pain on the monopose. The High Elves and Numenoreans are some of the oldest models in the entire line and they are grossly outdated. I hate how limited their ranges are and the poses are a bore. My hope is that the Last Alliance finally sees an update after all these years.
We have it easy compared to every other GW game 🤣🤣 least we can still get 24 warriors for about £22 costs about £40 to do that in AoS or 40k and you're lucky to get more than 10 models in those!
I hope the scaling of the upcoming Warhammer Old World kits are close enough in scale to these and perry miniatures to mix bits. I'd love to build some chaos warriors, Bretonnians, or Imperials with additional elements of historical armor to those in the gw kits.
I'm a huge fan of the MESBG range but I really don't think there's anything wrong proxy heroes, models or even full armies like this especially when you're supporting another company such as Victrix. I've built and I'm currently painting a Numenorian army based on the Victrix Athenian Hoplites, archers and Macedonian Cavalry. I've built about 1000 points (with room for another 800 points or so from unbuilt models) for a grand total of £70. The Numenorian range is very old and limited and doesn't really reflect Numenor in the lore I don't feel, so I don't feel too guilty about it :)
It's like paperhammer. Using proxy to imitate anything for miniatures. Example is using counters in SFB and actual FASA miniatures. The battlefield might be the game but lost in translation. Sure you can play the game yet in the end something was just missing from the full experience.
I recently got myself some mantic zombies as a proxy for the deadwalkers in my soulblight army and nobody I've ever played has had an issue with it but I will say avoid GW stores if you have proxy models because they will throw you out of the store
Don't feel guilty at all.. If this video gives people a chance to play the game at an affordable price, drive on. GW are kind of taking the piss regarding price...(I am putting a gondor army as a pallet cleanser for all my historic models)..and I have noticed the following 1. Lack of poses...2 poses per model that it. Its borining as hell.. 2. Price..I got 3 gondor metal veteran for 12.50euro. Compare that to 8 models of the sacred band from thebs (warlord metal models btw).15pound.. GW have such a huge following they don't seem to care to give a degree of choice on their middle earth models 3 variety in poses (linked to one).if vixtrie,warlord and others can make multi pose and give extra choice in regard to weapons,heads..why not do it..
im a fan of proxying aswell. Thanks for the video, polyfiller is a genius idea and I will be checking out Victrix. Ive just subscribed as ive seen a few of your videos and they are all very good.
Brilliant. All the minis shown look as good, if not better, than the GW releases, and have vastly more variety. The only downside I can think of is if playing in GW stores is desired.
I've never really thought too much about proxying models from 3rd party manufacturers, since I always assumed that GW's quality would far surpass anything that they could put out...but...I now see the error of my ways!
i bought 1 viking and 1 dark age archer set from victrix. i was able to create all 4 heroes from dunland, 9x huscarls, counteless wildmen and warriors. best money i've spent in my entire life
Brilliant! This is the way to go. You are welcome at my table any day, mate! However, I disagree with your comment of buying the FW heroes of Dunland. I proxied Goruf and Frida from reaper, and. I am still looking for a Wildman oath maker proxy. Could you make him from the Vitrix Viking Pack? Here is a challenge for you- find some proxies for Sharkey's ruffians! Cheers
Carnevale, Malifaux, Bushido. All fantastic games that don’t require an insane amount of money to get into. GW will find out this year that they priced themselves out of their own market.
My friend and I did much the same as far as proxying for the Saga campaign. And yes I would easily play against non GW models even when i was only using GW for GW games.
I think for the basic troops, it is well worth getting the proxies. I think I would still treat myself to the GW Hero's. Against the very slightly lower quality of the proxies the GW heroes would like even better!
Interesting video. Def the route I would go if going full Dunlending. Sadly, the Murder of Crowz (Zombicide) is now out of production and really hard to get, not that keen on the Anvil (too much assembly) or the Reaper (too big and unimaginative) options so looks like it will have to by FW for Crebain.
As a really “ Old School “ tabletop minature and RPG player of over forty years, I’ve ALWAYS had to “make do” and “work around “ to deploy my armies! From kit bashing ,”head switching “and “ Near Enough “ painting. Imagination should be ENHANCED by minatures not REPLACED.
I don’t mind others who proxy, but for myself unless the unit does not have an official model it just feels off to me (unless its bits like equipment). Best way I can describe it for myself is printing out MTG cards and using it in games. Nothing good or bad about its just off. This is just my taste. I think a-lot of it boils down to the ip and general support for proxies and 3d printing. If theres lore and official art that means this model looks a certain way and has a story behind it. This means if you want to be apart of that story you have that look. A dwarf from middle earth looks and has a different story from a warhammer fantasy dwarf or a game of thrones dwarf or an elder scrolls “dwarf”. There are some more free form ips like battle tech (a mech fighting game). The creators actually support 3d printing. Not only that but mechs are already highly varied as it is so it feels more legit to mash things up and make your own mech. Just depends on the world and your values. Only time I really support being mostly official is at tournaments where money or prestige are at stake. It just feels cheap to me when someone put $500+ into their army spent many hours of painting and construction just to face someone who printed their own army or bought proxies spray painted it lime green and abused rules in the game. At the end of the day, these are plastic figures that have value because of a made up story that we all like for one reason or another they aren’t physically made of gold. Its a hobby do it your way and who cares if its proxied or not in 99% of settings.
FYI: This is my progress on my half of the miniatures I need for my half of the campaign
- 3 x FW Dunland heros
- 6 x FW dunland huscarls
- 12 wild men of dunland
- 12 Dunland Warriors
- Thyrdan Wolfsbane
- 6 Dunland Horsemen
- Vrasku
- Ugluk
- Mauhur
- 18x Wars
- 24 x Uruk Scouts
- 4 Captains with shields
- 30 Uruk Warriors
- 12 Crossbows
- 16 Berserkers
- 5x ladders
- 3x demolotiin teams
We have a long way to go!
Do you like OnePageRules?
I love this proxy solution.The only people that wont are GW. Too bad for them!
The only people I’ve ever known to care about Proxied minis are GW store employees. Victrix miniatures are fantastic quality and a fantastic price.
And GW cucks, not warhammers fans but GW fans, antifa/corposhills of hobby "aos sales matters"
I have met a few… they tend to be GW fanboys.
Imagine having to work an entire day to buy a box of minis or two only to then defend that company.
And buttermilk bobs
@@damianarvizu1095 wanted to say the same thing.
Looks like you did great. It also seems like Victrix deserves the attention. Thank you for bringing attention to better priced alternatives. If GW wanted to compete, they could lower their ridiculous prices...
That's the problem, there's no one else big enough and willing to compete with them ! It's the same problem Lego has.
I guess once 3D printing becomes cheaper and easier, things might change, hopefully not hurting Victrix though
Another great video, no need to feel guilty, game how you want, never had any issues using proxy models and would never not play someone because of it. Bonus is you now have an entire Viking Army for Saga right there 😁
I'm in my 60s now & I used to joke with my dad, why he called my older brother, Number one son 🤔 I said that I was Number one son as I did more about the house than he did 😜 Love your channel 👍
Wow, I really like how you think!
I would have gone with Goths instead of Vikings and Normans, but the principle is the same.
Great job!
This army is gorgeous. And the dilemma about GW or not GW... well, Lord of the Rings was created by JRR Tolkien, not by GW so, I see no problem if you create yur own models based on Tolkien to play the game. In fact... now I want to buy some Victrix models.
Is it still ok if it is AoS or 40K?
@@KrullMaestaren proxy models have been used always. I remember a guy who used a Pepsi can as an ork Dreadnought because he couldn't afford one. He and his friends wanted to play, just it. And other hobby comunities use proxys usually. In Bolt Action you can use any brand, not only Warlord, and Warlord allows ti even in their official competitions. I don't understand why to be a GW's taliban fanboy unless if someone is a guy who don't really like hobbying and playing but only winning. GW is just a brand (and not the cheapest or even the better), not a god who deserves total submission and love.
@@joseluisnd75 In Battletech they let you use cartboard cutouts if you want as long as the facing is marked and you can tell what mech it's supposed to be. GW is just an a-hole company and has been for years.
Never have I wholeheartedly recommended a product as much as I would recommend Victrix.
I got the late Anglo-Saxons bag, and it was worth it !
60 Minis in one bag, and let me tell you I am left with a TON of spare parts
@@KrullMaestaren Re. AoS or 40K, it is certainly a more interesting question (to me at least) when the imagery/beings/models being proxied are specific GW IP as opposed to (say) more "generic" elves, dwarves, goblins, etc that are clearly grounded in the works of Tolkien and other authors. Tolkien himself was writing a pseudo-historical time-that-never-was, and using Saxons, Vikings, and the like to represent these seems very reasonable. And while GW may have the current licence to make Middle-Earth minis they aren't really the generators of the IP or look-and-feel of the IP - most of that came out of Jackson's LoTR movies, which in turn leaned very heavily on the imagery produced by long-time Tolkien illustrators Alan Lee and John Howe (to the point that they were both employed for the movies as creative artists).
I also suspect that, as an older player, my thinking is coloured by growing up with pre-GW rulesets were the minis weren't made by the same company... and even now GW are the exception, not the rule. As for AoS or 40K... I personally prefer GW's minis... but it's not an absolute. My IG army has a far amount of 3rd party stuff in it, (mostly because I love Victoria Miniatures guard figures), but my Marines are all pure GW. Provided the proxies were unambiguous I really wouldn't care.
TL;DR the very question of whether it's OK to use Victrix (or whoever) minis with GW rules for an LoTR game is basically nonsensical... honestly, I'm trying to imagine someone like Warlord insisting that only their official British 8th Army figures could be used with Bolt Action... total nonsense.
Dramatic light changing at 3:20 while delivering key info 👌🏽
I recently picked up a couple kits from Victrix and they are magnificent (especially in cost, haha) -- Frostgrave and Oathmark kits are also tremendous. They've made me fall back in love with the hobby.
Their goblins, orcs (even demons if you do a bit of conversion work) and dwarfs are really great for middle earth, although they're in hero scale so might look a bit chunky compared to other LOTR minis
Yeah but don't GW metal minis contain lead? No thanks.
Not only acceptable, but a fantastic army and IMO seems more fun hunting down the right pieces and kitbashing this together.
It is. I do this with all my middle earth now. Couple of "real" charachters and sprues, rest proxy and convert. And you know what? The finished army looks so much cooler.
They'll be more personalized and unique too
Yeeees! I love seeing Victrix getting more and more publicity in the wider wargaming community! A LOT of their kits can be used for all sorts of fantasy armies.
As for me... Well, my next project is a 700+ model Punic Wars project, with 90% of minis coming from Victrix :D. The two MASSIVE armies (with a lot of options for low cost branching into other armies like the Celts, Spanish etc...) cost me about 350 euros.
this channel deserves way more love, im inspired to get into table top gaming now, ive always been so worried about the price
I don't play LOTR but am always happy to see money going to companies other than GW! Those Victrix minis look great.
I don't play Middelearth, but I think your proxies look great. As far as useing proxies to play with, you could play with cardboard cutout AFAIC.
Remember to paint the rim of the bases :-)
Yes to the rim painting. Classy black all the way.
Is this OK you ask? Honestly, it's like watching a man wake up one morning and realise that he doesn't have to walk 5 miles over broken glass in bare feet each day to see the man he knows will punch him in the face again and again. The proxies are easily as good, if not better, give you far greater variety and are a fraction of the cost, The phrase "no brainer" comes irrestibly to mind. Great figures you produced, well done!
Also…it’s your hobby. If people dont like how you play it, then play with someone else.
Also, as much as GW winge officially about this sort of stuff, they know it will happen and that it is a result of using their “premium” price model. So they have actively chosen to have this more prevalent so that their products are seen as “premium” and thus more desirable.
But I will give them credit where it is due…their army books, codexes etc. are bloody premium. That art work is amazing and getting that look just right takes a lot of time.
The seamless way you blend the recommended video at the end of the current one is mesmerising. I can't stop 😂
Back in the day i watched so many videos of your skyrim videos. Now i am obsessed with minis and find this channel. Thank you so much for the wonderful content
I have just done the exact same! Our group wanted to play the war in Rohan scenarios, no one had any interest in that Dunland outlay, and then I found victrix. Great stuff. They look great!
I think you nailed it. I'd be more than happy to play with or against that "proxy". It's not even really a proxy. It's just the army from a different brand.
I love Victrix. My last monster sized project was a First Punic War battle. 476 infantry figures. Being able to use nearly every piece from every set with every other set, I was able to build an accurate Carthaginian army.
Keep up the great work.
I have a GW Dunland army, but I really want to buy the Vitrix kits because they are just fantastic! Been to a few tournaments where people have brought the proxy army intermingled with some GW stuff and they look amazing.
Those are some really nice kits, and going to plastic from metal is a huge bonus as well.
the vikings you used are looking good and if we would play i woudnt see a difference, yes i would play agains you. Now get to it and paint them up.
I just buy a box of minis, paint it, then sell it for 3 times as much on ebay, usually they sell within a few days and then I just take that money and buy three times as many models. I just keep doing that process until I have a full army. I started off with a box of 10 chaos marines 2 months ago, now I have 70 marines, 2 forge fiends, 1 chaos lord with thunderhammer, 12 possessed, 2 obliterators and a venom crawler. if you are a good painter that can paint fast, this I what I suggest.
I want to start a Dunlending army myself to jump in and play but the prices in USD is ridiculous! These Victrix models might just do the trick for me though, thanks for sharing.
I play my skirmish games with Pathfinder Pawns, or meeples, or tokens. No 3D models required at all! I don't even use 3D terrain. I just use Loke Battlemats.
As long as there is a vaguely similar miniature to what you're playing it doesn't matter. Proxies are a great way to get more games for everyone. When I first got into Warhammer I was about 11 so it was impossible to put 2000pts together in GW models to play outside of my friend group. I would hate for someone as young (or any age really) as I was unable to wargame because they couldn't afford to play with GW models but could make an effort with all the wonderful proxxies available today that I didn't have access to.
Im pretty sure I heard in a podcast that Bob Naismith who used to sculpt for GW did a lot of the Victrix models tools I think they would fit in quite well in a MESBG.
Honestly if someone has an issue with you using similar miniatures as proxies they're probably not worth playing with. Especially with the prices for some minis sold by GW, getting fantasy or historical minis from other companies is a great way to bulk up numbers and create more visual variety in your army.
As someone who 3d Prints, long live the proxies, especially for your home games. I do understand the restrictions for "Official" Tournament/competitive play. but rarely play in those types of games
The Norman Cavalry kit is incredibly versatile. I've just completed some... well Norman Cavalry, but I'm honestly wondering if I should get another one to build some Saracens. The sculpts are just SO good.
Nothing wrong with proxies. Hell, we've used full on custom *characters* in some games. No company can tell people how to enjoy themselves.
And repeditive sculpts are all to common, if one wants to be "pure" (a word laced with much sarcasm, on my part). Years ag I did the Dwarven army, and the only way to get variety was to paint their beards and the cloth under their armor differently. Now there are so many more options. Whether one's talking the Dwarves of Dain, the Klingon Empire or the New Jedi Order, there are do many gorgeous options on places like Etsy and Shapeways, many of which look incredible.
Besides, holding a middle finger to the big companies is fun.
By now, If I could paint every Necron model I want, I would do so.
Look you can come with Lego mini figs as your army and I still would fight against them.
I allways loved if someone use other manufactures figures, which match in their armies. For me much colorful and intresting
Some class ideas. Made a full mid 2nd age Numenorian army from Warlord Romans. Historicals for the win.
I'd recommend Cataphractii as Numenorian cavalry, they definitely have the correct aesthetic
I am in FULL SUPPORT of using proxies. Games workshop and Forge World pricing is just too much for me to justify. Plus like you’ve said, proxies offer more poses and variety.
Your Dunlandings look great. Hobby on!
Well, obviously in an official Games Workshop setting this would be a no-no, but in just about every hobby group I have been in and played with in the last 30+ years, I don't think anyone would have an issue with this. Especially if you proxy minis that look good. (Using Space Marines a Rohan Army wouldn't go over well), but with what you have done - in my opinion - this just adds to the fun of the hobby - job well done. :)
If I can find better sculpts then GW then I will buy proxy’s, but usually games workshop has the best looking minis, if I can’t afford it I just buy won’t buy the game at all
Oh yes I agree those Victrix miniatures are INCREDIBLE . I could not believe how many I got for such a low low price !
I actually play quite a bit of MESBG. Normally I'm not a fan of proxies, but in this case, since so much of the Dunland range is in metal with a small range of poses, I'm cool with it. Especially if the Victrix Vikings (which I have for Saga) are blended in with the metals.
Pretty funny. I went the OTHER WAY and proxied my Dunlindings as Vikings some years ago! They worked pretty nice. My Rohirrum also did duty as Romano-British/English troops too.
I had been considering a Dunland for my new army this year. I will definitely be following your lead and going the route of victrix. GW options are wayyy too expensive and it’s hard to see why.
I could never argue against GW's quality, each mini is ridiculously modeled but the price ? oooh ..
I would argue that labor costs (salaries/taxes etc) would be a major drive in cost, but Victrix also appears to be in the UK..yet for some reason a GW mini is about 3 euro/each while Victrix is about half an euro each (assuming we are talking about "cannon fodder" .
That's what I call a success!
And honestly, about this being okay, GW can screw themselves with their insane price raises and anti consumer behavior, they reap what they sow with 3D-Printing, OPR, proxies etc. And everyone simping for a stock-listed company by getting mad about proxies can screw themselves too, who needs them.
Thanks for sharing!
don't mind proxies for MESBG, especially since they use the same moulds since 20 years... personally I use 3D prints alongside original models I own since about 19 years
Awesome video, might grab the Victrix models myself. I don't think its necessary fair to say "these bow models that I have to chop up to make allow me to have more poses" when you could also just chop up the official GW dunlendings to get more poses through conversions. What you should say instead is, because they are all plastic, this is much easier to get a variety of poses.
Victrix miniature for MESBG is really good
More people must hear this. Just other day i ordered the isenguard battlehost. I then got on etsy and with just 100 i fleshed the army out significantly. Im talking charachters, crossbow guys, berserkers etc. GW equivelant would have cost WAY more.
Please do a couple of painting videos of these models! What would be great :)
I think proxies are just fine. I would have no problem playing someone who fielded them. The only time when they are not appropriate is in tournaments where the WYSIWYG rules are in effect or just tournaments in general. I love hybrids, proxies and kit bashing. As long as they can be easily identified and not too easily confused I say go for it. I am also a huge fan of saving money.
I have no problem with this, and to be honest your FLGS will be happy to help you with proxies. Forgeworld prices are just daft and even if you want to get real GW stuff from GW, the LOTR range seems under supported in terms of stock availability... most of it shows as being out of stock at GW so again, pay a visit to your FLGS for some of those proxies.
Proxy or not, it is game, so have fun. I remember that my friends and I in school used Cut Outs in the correct base size just to play this game. To answer your question, yes I would play against a proxy army.
Look on The Print Goes Ever On. It's a 3D printing group that focuses on LOTR minis
60 models for only £35?! That is a deal hard to resist. Not only I would not mind playing against you I'd even create my own proxy army. With the ludicrous prices GW is asking is no wonder why more and more hobbyist are going for alternative models or 3d printers. I thought Wargames Atlantic had a good deal on models for 40K Imperial Guard (20-35 minis for $35usd) but now I learned Victrix is king for when ir comes to LOTR proxy armies. Cool videos man, please keep them coming!
Proxy is an art form in itself and should be completely accepted by any sain person. What is more important? To play a nice game with your friend or that he bought plastic from the correct company (that has 40% margins on top of it 😱)
I've started buying historical miniatures as alternatives for Lord of the Rings. Wargames Atlantic even do halflings which are great for Hobbit stand in plus they also have giant spiders as well.
So I am an old school historical gamer, so I come from a generation when people used to publish rules and you had to find miniatures to fit the period. Now having said that, I have all the miniatures from GW to play the Quest of the Ringbearer campaign. But I have been collecting GW LOTR for 20 years so I only had to buy a few new of the Forgeworld miniatures. It's your game, you are just using their rules. I have plenty of gamers in my group who use proxies. As long as you are not using World War II US Army for Dunlanding warriors, I have no problem with it. It is after all, a game. The only people who get anal about using proxies are MESBG players who play competitive tournaments. For narrative players like me, as long as the miniatures fit the narrative, the game is afoot.
Brilliant video! I have made a Victrix Dunland army but I wasnt sure what would work well for Cavalry and crebain. But I do now!
I’ve done the same. Trying to complete both my Mordor and Moria armies. Love your sculpts tho!
These look great and very lord of the rings. I think ideally you would want to mix in some of the 'official' models and most get the most variety possible
Well I bought a whole early Roman army (one of everything) after your first video. So I’m sold!
This is possibly one of the best proxies as Rohan and Dunland are very much inspired by Vikings
Yeah, I noticed a lot of newer GW sets are monopose. Not to mention that you have fewer spare bits too. Which is a problem for Orks, because they were THE spare bits and converting / customization army.
Your army looks great, and running proxies is totally fine. Some people might care, but I think most will be fine with it. 😁
The quality on those Victrix models is incredible. I recently picked up some WarGames Atlantic Dark Age Warriors 4 proxy, and while affordable they just don't match the victrix detail. Will definitely be going with them next time around
As long as the scale and wargear are correct I have no problem with people using proxies. Yours are amazing and i will definitely consider the same ....unfortunately everything in Australia is expensive...especially miniatures soo I don't expect to save much 😆 😆 😆 I'm also terrible at painting so I get comission painters to do it.... so yeah also increases the price. Models + painting my Gondor army cost about $1800
Funny thing is, i noticed that British english is undergoing a second vowel shif, transforming the lenguage, while australia, america and cannada are still the same. the TH sound is shifting from the normal sound towards an F or V sound. its not you alone. i noticed that with at least 10 different british youtubers who all pronounce three as free for example, or mother as mover ;-) interressting how lenguage evolves over time
Keen ear but the 'th' noise is still alive and well across the UK. The 'th' -> 'f' swap is a 'Thames Valley English' thing. Very similar to some of London's vernacular and is widely used in the south east outside the Thames valley but different to other distinctive talk in the SE like Essex.
Its not really fair to say its representative of British vernacular speech at large, which is very varied.
p.s. a lot of British youtubers/content creators are from the south-east of England!
The uk has literally dozens of different regional accents which have developed over centuries, ESO sounds pretty standard by UK standards
Proxies for the win!
No Problem with proxies. Especially when they are cheaper and look better than some of the GW miniatures. I began kitbashing my own Riders of Rohan with Victrix-Parts on my channel.
In Australia we pay 3 times more for the boxsets (in some cases) than anyone else around the world. The 3D printing scene has gone crazy here due to GW ripping up off. Go for it. Proxy your models and have fun. It is a game for god's sake!
Yeah, two main reasons I have moved more to the 3d prints or other manyfactorers on minis is GW's prices and monopose minies, as I love build every model looking individual and different.
They look awesome, I'd happily play against an army of proxies as long as they look the part. The variety of poses does put GW to shame
Ah, yes, the age old argument of is it moral to proxy historic minis in for lotr. Go for it! The army looks great!
The GWS prices in Australia are insane. Nearly twice the price in the UK when converted from AUD to pounds. So just buying the books is very expensive. Proxy’s for LOTR is a great idea.
Doesn’t work well for AOS or 40K though.
Great video,great analysis and also nice highlighting alternatives.
No need to feel bad, GW doesn’t make it easy for it’s MESBG fans. I feel you on the scenario books, I want to be able to go through and play them in their entirety but it costs so damn much money to do so! And as a High Elf player, I feel your pain on the monopose. The High Elves and Numenoreans are some of the oldest models in the entire line and they are grossly outdated. I hate how limited their ranges are and the poses are a bore. My hope is that the Last Alliance finally sees an update after all these years.
We have it easy compared to every other GW game 🤣🤣 least we can still get 24 warriors for about £22 costs about £40 to do that in AoS or 40k and you're lucky to get more than 10 models in those!
Show us how you painted them!!!! Great vid, the victrix models are great
Looks great! Hope you'll have an awesome time playing the game :)
I hope the scaling of the upcoming Warhammer Old World kits are close enough in scale to these and perry miniatures to mix bits.
I'd love to build some chaos warriors, Bretonnians, or Imperials with additional elements of historical armor to those in the gw kits.
I'm a huge fan of the MESBG range but I really don't think there's anything wrong proxy heroes, models or even full armies like this especially when you're supporting another company such as Victrix.
I've built and I'm currently painting a Numenorian army based on the Victrix Athenian Hoplites, archers and Macedonian Cavalry. I've built about 1000 points (with room for another 800 points or so from unbuilt models) for a grand total of £70. The Numenorian range is very old and limited and doesn't really reflect Numenor in the lore I don't feel, so I don't feel too guilty about it :)
It's like paperhammer. Using proxy to imitate anything for miniatures. Example is using counters in SFB and actual FASA miniatures. The battlefield might be the game but lost in translation. Sure you can play the game yet in the end something was just missing from the full experience.
I recently got myself some mantic zombies as a proxy for the deadwalkers in my soulblight army and nobody I've ever played has had an issue with it but I will say avoid GW stores if you have proxy models because they will throw you out of the store
Don't feel guilty at all..
If this video gives people a chance to play the game at an affordable price, drive on.
GW are kind of taking the piss regarding price...(I am putting a gondor army as a pallet cleanser for all my historic models)..and I have noticed the following
1. Lack of poses...2 poses per model that it. Its borining as hell..
2. Price..I got 3 gondor metal veteran for 12.50euro. Compare that to 8 models of the sacred band from thebs (warlord metal models btw).15pound.. GW have such a huge following they don't seem to care to give a degree of choice on their middle earth models
3 variety in poses (linked to one).if vixtrie,warlord and others can make multi pose and give extra choice in regard to weapons,heads..why not do it..
im a fan of proxying aswell. Thanks for the video, polyfiller is a genius idea and I will be checking out Victrix. Ive just subscribed as ive seen a few of your videos and they are all very good.
Keen to see you paint them!
That's a super nice proxy army. I don't know anyone that objects to proxying.
Brilliant. All the minis shown look as good, if not better, than the GW releases, and have vastly more variety. The only downside I can think of is if playing in GW stores is desired.
I've never really thought too much about proxying models from 3rd party manufacturers, since I always assumed that GW's quality would far surpass anything that they could put out...but...I now see the error of my ways!
i bought 1 viking and 1 dark age archer set from victrix. i was able to create all 4 heroes from dunland, 9x huscarls, counteless wildmen and warriors. best money i've spent in my entire life
I think this is a great way to play and save :)
I love Victrix, now you have some armies you might even want to try out some games like saga Age of Vikings or ravenfeast
Fantastic video, and I see no problem at all using these miniatures.
Victrix miniatures are awesome pal! You could also play Saga or Clash of spears with them!
Brilliant! This is the way to go. You are welcome at my table any day, mate! However, I disagree with your comment of buying the FW heroes of Dunland. I proxied Goruf and Frida from reaper, and. I am still looking for a Wildman oath maker proxy. Could you make him from the Vitrix Viking Pack?
Here is a challenge for you- find some proxies for Sharkey's ruffians! Cheers
Carnevale, Malifaux, Bushido. All fantastic games that don’t require an insane amount of money to get into. GW will find out this year that they priced themselves out of their own market.
My friend and I did much the same as far as proxying for the Saga campaign. And yes I would easily play against non GW models even when i was only using GW for GW games.
I think for the basic troops, it is well worth getting the proxies. I think I would still treat myself to the GW Hero's. Against the very slightly lower quality of the proxies the GW heroes would like even better!
Interesting video. Def the route I would go if going full Dunlending. Sadly, the Murder of Crowz (Zombicide) is now out of production and really hard to get, not that keen on the Anvil (too much assembly) or the Reaper (too big and unimaginative) options so looks like it will have to by FW for Crebain.
As a really “ Old School “ tabletop minature and RPG player of over forty years, I’ve ALWAYS had to “make do” and “work around “ to deploy my armies!
From kit bashing ,”head
switching “and “ Near Enough “ painting.
Imagination should be ENHANCED by minatures not REPLACED.
I don’t mind others who proxy, but for myself unless the unit does not have an official model it just feels off to me (unless its bits like equipment). Best way I can describe it for myself is printing out MTG cards and using it in games. Nothing good or bad about its just off. This is just my taste.
I think a-lot of it boils down to the ip and general support for proxies and 3d printing. If theres lore and official art that means this model looks a certain way and has a story behind it. This means if you want to be apart of that story you have that look. A dwarf from middle earth looks and has a different story from a warhammer fantasy dwarf or a game of thrones dwarf or an elder scrolls “dwarf”.
There are some more free form ips like battle tech (a mech fighting game). The creators actually support 3d printing. Not only that but mechs are already highly varied as it is so it feels more legit to mash things up and make your own mech. Just depends on the world and your values.
Only time I really support being mostly official is at tournaments where money or prestige are at stake. It just feels cheap to me when someone put $500+ into their army spent many hours of painting and construction just to face someone who printed their own army or bought proxies spray painted it lime green and abused rules in the game.
At the end of the day, these are plastic figures that have value because of a made up story that we all like for one reason or another they aren’t physically made of gold. Its a hobby do it your way and who cares if its proxied or not in 99% of settings.
Vitrix is great. i am using them for my Kings of War Varangur army.