The hardest part about diaging for me is knowing what I'm looking at. So what I started to do is when a car comes in I make a file of known goods. I scope all the communication lines with B.O.B and anything else thats easy to access with a signals. We all know what a good power and ground loaded looks like but different manufacturers uses different signals. Also I scoping in cylinder,intake and exhaust on known goods. I started making a file for all of my harder diags as well because my memory sucks especially the busier I get. Its helped alot, I keep scope captures with written record of everything I did to find the problem even keeping the good scope captures so I know. Obviously it would take a long time to record them all but I try to at least get the harder diags.
Watching your videos makes me a little sad I got out of the automotive industry. I hope the younger generations can learn from amazing videos you put out. Thank you. Please keep this up.
I have this knock sensor problem on my 99 tacoma and I was tempted to buy aftermarket sensors. I am so happy I stumbled upon your video (by accident) this morning. I will be buying OE sensors when I replace them. Thank you for your detailed explanation and showing that the aftermarket is not the way to go when this repair needs to be done.
excellent presentation, oem always , especially if u have to dig deep to replace, because it costs less and u do it once. great to see smart people do their thing
As always Bernie is amazing. I always tested these sensors with the car running and revving to 4k rpm to look the frequency. But i see Bernie is doing it with KOEO. Something i learned. And yes i do it with my Escope elite 4 and it works great because of the 16 bit vertical resolution and works fantastic.
Looking at the clutter and general mess that shop is, not surprising they got in over their heads on a 20+ year old Toyota. Great work as always Bernie.
problem is shops don't want to pay for a good diagnose guy. they would rather have a cheaper guy and throw parts at it...what's best for the bottom line beats what's best for the customer..
Yeah, crazy that the day before I had worked on a WRX with manual tranny, it was a 2015 in my case and i was seeing the exact thing as Bernie was seeing but in my case, one of the cams was dropping out every now and then and would stall the car randomly during idle. The weird thing is that after I replaced the cam sensor that was sticking, the car did not stall anymore even when the signal reference was the opposite, when revving it up, the ref would flip the other way just like he showed, in my case though, it did not set any codes. Just for kicks I noticed we had another 2017 WRX with the same known good. I checked intake cam signals (they are in the front now which is easy to get to) and to my surprise, the left intake was not in the correct orientation. It was being pulled down just like the right bank sensor but it would not flip under acceleration like the 2015 did. Known good said that right bank should pull down and left should pull up. In this 2017 both cams were being pulled down, dont know if the manual trans had anything to do with that but that was what I saw and the car did not have codes or any sort of problem. Some thing you will never figure out I guess.
I love the pico. I have the 4425a but I use a 2k 4 channel version. Initially, I wanted the automotive version because of the library and presets from automotive but once you get used to diagnosing, you dont really need any of those. I got the rotkee version which has 8 channels and goes up to 500 volts and has presets for the hantek amp clamps and they have very cheap pressure transducers, etc. I got the scope for 225, in cylinder transducer for 105 and it is awesome. I already had the Hantek amp clamps so that was great. I have used my 4425a a couple of times but I only pull it for tedious diags where I want certainty and to be sure what I'm looking at is true.
OEM sensors only on knock sensors. We used to see it all the time on this 5vz-fe engine. Problem is the OEM sensors are ~$140 each, the harness is ~$60, intake gasket set is ~$150. Because of the expense we often see other shops and diy alike use cheap parts which never work properly.
I am new to your channel, and I am not a technician, but a retired electrician. My sister had a knock sensor problem just like this one on her 2001 Highlander, I went to Reilly's and got their version of knock sensors, I had to take them back because they were worthless. Got me OEM wire harnesses and sensors from Toyota dealership and $650 later it runs like it should. I learned from my Runnings with time -wasting "technicians" when I fixed my Nissan D 21 199. He who buys cheap buys twice.
As im a plumber, people calling me asking me how much is this and how much is that, they tell me why so much, i tell them because im license and i guarantee my work if it break or clog up again i will come back, if you pay cheap when you call him back he wont come back because you pay cheap the first time, so pay me more and have guarantee and piece of mind.
It only took one car I bought in auction I heard running poorly and thought I had it figured out before I bought it. Turned out I was so wrong and finally just got tired of chasing everything I could think of. I scraped it. I did find it would keep going back in limp shortly after I would get it up and running and driving very well a number of times so now I am determined to tool up to do it right from now on. I am a believer !
Excellent video Bernie! Agree 100%! Had almost the same exact situation a while back... Only difference was worldpac sent a defective batch of OEM sensors, 2 different times...3rd time was the charm + came from another batch. Was able to compare KS signal waveforms from a known good engine from same Era... Very frustrating.. Couldn't have fixed it without a scope and a known good waveform..
Man those Denso (japan) original parts are the gold standard for reliability. Some newer Toyotas have Denso (Tennesse), Mitsubishi and Hitachi sensors, they won’t be as legendary.
At 2:10 first rule of diag, hit it with a hammer Second rule of diag, if rule one doesn’t work hit it with a bigger hammer Third rule of diag, if rule two doesn’t work then it must be electrical; call Bernie
Great video everything you did makes perfect sense . In this case you had two sensors to compare as a start for data. If both aftermarket sensors had given incorrect but identical data how would you have known that the ringing frequency was wrong ? Do the oem manufacturers give out such high level data for comparison I would imagine with the climate of intellectual property theft in certain countries such data would be held in secret. Anyway only trusting OEM sensors is the only definitive test your video proves that pay the extra $$$ fix it right the first time.
Bernie's right! The scope will help find the problem. The scan tool and/or the Digital Multimeter (DMM) won't ! ! The better quality scopes have a record feature when trying to diagnose an intermittent problem. I have an old Fluke 98 I used for years, but I wish I had my Pico 20 years ago!
I totally agree, but what do you recommend when the OE is discontinued/unavailable? I have had to roll the dice with aftermarket because there is not an OE available at all.
Excelente trabajo, diagnostico y clase máster! Saludos y bendiciones desde república Dominicana ❤🤝 se Aprende mucho de Usted . Tendrá usted por ahí algunos cursos virtuales de electricidad automotriz.?
Simple One wire sensor: between signal and ground. Two wire sensor: across the two signal wires. Same way as you would load a circuit with a test light, but this time you need a high resistance load.
Fun fact: the internal structure of our bones produces a piezoelectric effect when we move, especially when walking/running/in contact with the ground.
They are common for failing around 200,000miles. Many times it goes unfixed for long periods of time unless the driver noticed the reduction of power. It pulls 5-10 degrees of timing when a knock sensor fault is present. They will also fail is disturbed during a headgasket replacement.
Is the owner of the 4Runner from Boston? New parts BAD? Now that's a pissah! Hole will allow for compression of any gas/air in the sensor increasing its response
If going on you tube to fix cars is such a bad thing ...why does Bernie have his videos on you tube ....youre using the same source that youre knocking ..pun intended!!
I don't understand HOW they get away with it . Put in a computer and it does the EXACT same thing ! WHO pays for this ? You are not talking about a $ 20 relay . I would love to hear the LIST of excuses - " those computers WEAR OUT , like TIRES " ! I have a bridge I would like to sell you !
It's easy to say always use OE,, it's ridiculous amount to pay, they're always overpriced, the mark up on OE parts are enormous, 400 dollars plus labor, I would try and find a couple of them at a salvage yard if I had to get OE, yeah most of the time aftermarket parts are junk, but people with money have a attitude that really pisses me off, because the real world is something they don't comprehend even though they think they know it all, I'm so tired of obnoxious conceited know it alls.
Always always use OEM knock sensors. Learned that a long time ago. Great that Bernie showed us why.
The hardest part about diaging for me is knowing what I'm looking at. So what I started to do is when a car comes in I make a file of known goods. I scope all the communication lines with B.O.B and anything else thats easy to access with a signals. We all know what a good power and ground loaded looks like but different manufacturers uses different signals. Also I scoping in cylinder,intake and exhaust on known goods. I started making a file for all of my harder diags as well because my memory sucks especially the busier I get. Its helped alot, I keep scope captures with written record of everything I did to find the problem even keeping the good scope captures so I know. Obviously it would take a long time to record them all but I try to at least get the harder diags.
Watching your videos makes me a little sad I got out of the automotive industry. I hope the younger generations can learn from amazing videos you put out. Thank you. Please keep this up.
I have this knock sensor problem on my 99 tacoma and I was tempted to buy aftermarket sensors. I am so happy I stumbled upon your video (by accident) this morning. I will be buying OE sensors when I replace them. Thank you for your detailed explanation and showing that the aftermarket is not the way to go when this repair needs to be done.
excellent presentation, oem always , especially if u have to dig deep to replace, because it costs less and u do it once. great to see smart people do their thing
A very interesting vanity license plate on that Toyota. Thanks for another great diagnosis, Bernie!
As always Bernie is amazing. I always tested these sensors with the car running and revving to 4k rpm to look the frequency. But i see Bernie is doing it with KOEO. Something i learned. And yes i do it with my Escope elite 4 and it works great because of the 16 bit vertical resolution and works fantastic.
Blows my mind that they'll throw a computer at it over thinking maybe the cheap aftermarket sensor is no good .
Madness!!
When Bernie got’s the ball peen, he don’t play! AWESOME VIDEO AS ALWAYS BERNIE! AND GREAT JOB TO THE VIDEOGRAPHER, YOU ARE A TRUE UNSUNG HERO!
14:13 A little knit picky here, but a better statement is "infinite resistance, no load". Beautiful diagnosis as always Bernie.
Training in electronics extremely important more and more each passing day!
Looking at the clutter and general mess that shop is, not surprising they got in over their heads on a 20+ year old Toyota. Great work as always Bernie.
This shop could benefit from hiring and properly compensating a competent diagnostician. Till then, Bernie is the man!
Lol. Yea but think of all that lost revenue 🤔🤣🤣
Unfortunately there aren't that many high skilled techs and the kids i see out of tech school are not taught these skills
problem is shops don't want to pay for a good diagnose guy. they would rather have a cheaper guy and throw parts at it...what's best for the bottom line beats what's best for the customer..
Damn songg ... This channel has the more incredible cases, this is nice but not better than the magnetized engines episodes ... those were sicckkk.
Yeah, crazy that the day before I had worked on a WRX with manual tranny, it was a 2015 in my case and i was seeing the exact thing as Bernie was seeing but in my case, one of the cams was dropping out every now and then and would stall the car randomly during idle. The weird thing is that after I replaced the cam sensor that was sticking, the car did not stall anymore even when the signal reference was the opposite, when revving it up, the ref would flip the other way just like he showed, in my case though, it did not set any codes. Just for kicks I noticed we had another 2017 WRX with the same known good. I checked intake cam signals (they are in the front now which is easy to get to) and to my surprise, the left intake was not in the correct orientation. It was being pulled down just like the right bank sensor but it would not flip under acceleration like the 2015 did. Known good said that right bank should pull down and left should pull up. In this 2017 both cams were being pulled down, dont know if the manual trans had anything to do with that but that was what I saw and the car did not have codes or any sort of problem. Some thing you will never figure out I guess.
Great tutorial Bernie, now I have my Escope elite It is gradually becoming my go to over my Pico.
I love the pico. I have the 4425a but I use a 2k 4 channel version. Initially, I wanted the automotive version because of the library and presets from automotive but once you get used to diagnosing, you dont really need any of those. I got the rotkee version which has 8 channels and goes up to 500 volts and has presets for the hantek amp clamps and they have very cheap pressure transducers, etc. I got the scope for 225, in cylinder transducer for 105 and it is awesome. I already had the Hantek amp clamps so that was great. I have used my 4425a a couple of times but I only pull it for tedious diags where I want certainty and to be sure what I'm looking at is true.
That 27 min mark speech Mr. Thompson ! Preach it!!!
OEM sensors only on knock sensors. We used to see it all the time on this 5vz-fe engine. Problem is the OEM sensors are ~$140 each, the harness is ~$60, intake gasket set is ~$150. Because of the expense we often see other shops and diy alike use cheap parts which never work properly.
I am new to your channel, and I am not a technician, but a retired electrician. My sister had a knock sensor problem just like this one on her 2001 Highlander, I went to Reilly's and got their version of knock sensors, I had to take them back because they were worthless. Got me OEM wire harnesses and sensors from Toyota dealership and $650 later it runs like it should.
I learned from my Runnings with time -wasting "technicians" when I fixed my Nissan D 21 199.
He who buys cheap buys twice.
As im a plumber, people calling me asking me how much is this and how much is that, they tell me why so much, i tell them because im license and i guarantee my work if it break or clog up again i will come back, if you pay cheap when you call him back he wont come back because you pay cheap the first time, so pay me more and have guarantee and piece of mind.
Thanks to bernie for this awesome class 👏
Para tus clases del mismo master. Aquí andamos.
It only took one car I bought in auction I heard running poorly and thought I had it figured out before I bought it. Turned out I was so wrong and finally just got tired of chasing everything I could think of. I scraped it. I did find it would keep going back in limp shortly after I would get it up and running and driving very well a number of times so now I am determined to tool up to do it right from now on. I am a believer !
Have used a scope since the 70s starting with the old Sun scopes,very few people want to apply themselves ,just want to replace parts.
Amazing diagnosis and lesson. Thank you Bernie!!
Being from MA, that license plate is awesome lol. They are a long way from home.
Excellent video Bernie! Agree 100%! Had almost the same exact situation a while back... Only difference was worldpac sent a defective batch of OEM sensors, 2 different times...3rd time was the charm + came from another batch. Was able to compare KS signal waveforms from a known good engine from same Era... Very frustrating.. Couldn't have fixed it without a scope and a known good waveform..
Man those Denso (japan) original parts are the gold standard for reliability. Some newer Toyotas have Denso (Tennesse), Mitsubishi and Hitachi sensors, they won’t be as legendary.
I always thought that it would be a combination of amplitude and frequency that determines detonation level. I'd call both sensors and use only oe.
Awesome video, this video is so educational. Thank you
Thank you Mr Thompson. I love you work.
Another great video - as always - Thanks Bernie!
At 2:10 first rule of diag, hit it with a hammer
Second rule of diag, if rule one doesn’t work hit it with a bigger hammer
Third rule of diag, if rule two doesn’t work then it must be electrical; call Bernie
Great video everything you did makes perfect sense . In this case you had two sensors to compare as a start for data. If both aftermarket sensors had given incorrect but identical data how would you have known that the ringing frequency was wrong ? Do the oem manufacturers give out such high level data for comparison I would imagine with the climate of intellectual property theft in certain countries such data would be held in secret. Anyway only trusting OEM sensors is the only definitive test your video proves that pay the extra $$$ fix it right the first time.
The more I see Bernie. The more I use my pico to the point Im blind if I don't have it
Bernie's right! The scope will help find the problem. The scan tool and/or the Digital Multimeter (DMM) won't ! ! The better quality scopes have a record feature when trying to diagnose an intermittent problem. I have an old Fluke 98 I used for years, but I wish I had my Pico 20 years ago!
I totally agree, but what do you recommend when the OE is discontinued/unavailable? I have had to roll the dice with aftermarket because there is not an OE available at all.
I volunteer to be Bernie's camera man.... I would learn so much following him around👍
Get in line. I applied a few years back.
Could you theoretically use two of the same aftermarket knock sensors so the frequency matches?
Excelente trabajo, diagnostico y clase máster! Saludos y bendiciones desde república Dominicana ❤🤝 se Aprende mucho de Usted . Tendrá usted por ahí algunos cursos virtuales de electricidad automotriz.?
Data driven !!!
Love this guy!!
Hey Bernie I wish you would show the configuration of how you hook Those sensors up through those boxes to load them
Simple
One wire sensor: between signal and ground.
Two wire sensor: across the two signal wires.
Same way as you would load a circuit with a test light, but this time you need a high resistance load.
Very good, thanks!
Fun fact: the internal structure of our bones produces a piezoelectric effect when we move, especially when walking/running/in contact with the ground.
thats super cool to know, and ties into a bunch of things reguarding health, thnx
Excellent video! I wonder if the original sensors replaced were actually bad. Shame you didn't get it first because I know you would have tested them.
They are common for failing around 200,000miles. Many times it goes unfixed for long periods of time unless the driver noticed the reduction of power. It pulls 5-10 degrees of timing when a knock sensor fault is present. They will also fail is disturbed during a headgasket replacement.
Is the owner of the 4Runner from Boston?
New parts BAD?
Now that's a pissah!
Hole will allow for compression of any gas/air in the sensor increasing its response
The biggest problem with these cases is the "Aftermarket mechanic/tech". Genuine mechanic/techs only use genuine parts.
At 25:12 why sensor 2 is bigger than sensor 1 ?although both sensor had changed?
Good information 👍
Data driven plan, new aftermarket knock sensors and it still has issues. Install oew Toyota knock sensors.
It’s crazy how much headache garbage parts can cause.
What you do when you have only one sensor ?!
Oe sensors save so much headaches.same with coils. Never go cheep on a diesel
Great...!!! 👌
that number/license plate 🤣🤣
I always insist on quality parts, after market parts are low cost for a reason
Bernie T, fixit again...I wish other utube wannabes could learn from Bernie!
If going on you tube to fix cars is such a bad thing ...why does Bernie have his videos on you tube ....youre using the same source that youre knocking ..pun intended!!
I don't understand HOW they get away with it . Put in a computer and it does the EXACT same thing ! WHO pays for this ? You are not talking about a $ 20 relay . I would love to hear the LIST of excuses - " those computers WEAR OUT , like TIRES " ! I have a bridge I would like to sell you !
I knew first off aftermarket was the problem JUNK.
It's easy to say always use OE,, it's ridiculous amount to pay, they're always overpriced, the mark up on OE parts are enormous, 400 dollars plus labor, I would try and find a couple of them at a salvage yard if I had to get OE, yeah most of the time aftermarket parts are junk, but people with money have a attitude that really pisses me off, because the real world is something they don't comprehend even though they think they know it all, I'm so tired of obnoxious conceited know it alls.