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THE ORDER THE PRIMARCHS WERE FOUND
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- Опубликовано: 25 дек 2019
- Hi all Wolf Lord Rho here,
Today we take a look at the order in which the Emperor was reunited with his sons, after the scattering by the Chaos Gods, which took the Primarchs away from Terra and scattered them across the galaxy.
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Corax was a good kid. The Emperor had a definite soft spot for him.
It make sense for the emperor to keep the twins a secret because that is their purpose. Alpha legion are spies. Keeping that secret allows them to be really good spies.
Robert Beltz so there were 21 primarchs then
@@Ally.Cat.252 Alpharius Omegon share the same soul so they are 1 primarch
I am Alpharius
@@Ally.Cat.252 22. The prototype primarch counts as well i think
@@Ally.Cat.252 meh, they counted as one.
"I am the last loyal man ,under a galaxy of traitor stars. The undying amongst the dead. I am JUSTICE" - Garvial Loken.
Cerberus! Roar. He's a badass.
Based on what I’ve read, it was shortly after Malcador interviewed them that the decision was made in each case. It was also written that they didn’t fit the Emperor’s plan. So my personal head canon is the following:
2nd Primarch: Devout pacifist who refused the call to arms.
11th Primarch: some form of dictator (or mad scientist) who preferred to rule their own Imperium.
I always got the impression that the 3rd Primarch to be found lasted long enough to meet Sanguinius as he seems to be the one most concerned with his legion potentially getting purged in the same way, if the first of the lost Primarchs was long gone by the time that Sanguinius was found I don't think that he would of been as concerned with hiding the red thirst
I had a similar impression, though I doubt the 2nd began as a pacifist as both of the lost legions participated in a xenocide. it's possible that that he was so disturbed by whatever he saw there that he questioned and eventually refused his purpose.
I’ve been reading the 40k Wiki, and it seems to indicate that at least one of the lost Primarchs served The Emperor for a time before they became “lost”. Both Legions served in what was called “The Rangdan Xenocides”, a series of battles that started at least 60 years after the start of The Great Crusade. Lion El’Jonson had been found by this point, as he is listed as being one of two named commanders in charge, the other being The Emperor. The Lion was found at least 12 years before these Xenocides happened (going by the dates provide). As The Lion was the eleventh to be found and one of the two were the third to be found, that third Primarch and their legion must have served The Emperor for least the time between them being found and the start of these battles.
This actually makes more sense when you think of the primarchs as aspects of the Emperor.
There is no primarch who would reflect the pacifist nature of Him, neither is there the gene-master one.
Their?
The primarch Leman Russ deleted and the other one must have been damn near useless if even Angron passed the bar.
My headcanon is they(or at least one of them) were raised by peaceful xenos and refused to slaughter them, or allow the imperium to slaughter them.
Super Saiyan Diclonius that would have been awfully sad! Big E was too hard at times
@@Whoasked777 yep.
That or severe mutation, greater than any of the others.
it is suggested that they and their legions suffered from some kind of severe mutation. my personal theory is that Genestealers originated from one of the lost legions and that the "germ-seed" that they use to create Genestealer hybrids is in fact lost legion gene-seed. as the germ-seed also works on xenos (including Eldar and Orks) almost as well as it works in humans I get the feeling that it would be a mutation that the Emperor would be very keen to eliminate as I doubt that he would be tolerant of even the slightest possibility of Ork Astartes
It could make sense that Corax has 18 brothers, since the Emperor knows about the total amount of Primarchs:
21 Total (if counting Alpharius and Omegon as 2) minus the two deleted and minus Corax himself = 18
Thinking the same thing!
Now that's math.
The ilogical part would be, that:
The emperor had not yet deleted both lost primarchs and it is highly unlikely that he knew, he would do that.
You could instead make a case for:
20 primarchs, one killed, one Corax =18 Brothers
This would in turn mean, that the Emperor woulödn't have known that the Alpharius had a twin.
Wich could be explained by: During the time in the Warp the Primarch duplicated when his sould ripped into two.
The simplest answer however still remains as:
The author who wrote the "18 Brothers" bit, didn't think about this and only had the endresult in mind.
@@Gnarlf But the Emperor mentions the "fallen two" - whatever he means by "fallen"
could also mean that the purge of the 2nd lost Primarch was more or less in motion during the discovery of Corax
@@kingmobmor7656 Quick Maffs
I have a feeling the lost primarchs are kept in stasis in the vaults deep beneath the Imperial Palace.
“It’s part of the plan” 😈
I know that there is probably evidence that voids this but I like to think that Tyberos and Asterion Molec, and their legions, are the missing ones. It explains their unknown geneseed and their size.
I've never played wh40k. Never got into tabletop period. But you speak with such respect for your subscribers, and you can tell how passionate you are about your channel. God bless bro! You gained a sub from me
Thanks for the kind words I appreciate it!
The angel and Big E have such a strong bond because when they met they both instantly started singing "rockin robbin" to each other.
I think it's been well made. I DO WANT MORE PRIMARCHS ON THE TABLETOP!!
Indeed. GW is slacking off in this department!
They are slacking cause Horus Heresy is selling well and all the Primarchs are there. After it's over I bet we see a big influx of them in 40k.
I want a lord of war Russ in my Space Wolves army :(
My custom chapter uses the second legions primarch as theirs. Been working on the back story for years, but just recently really dived into the lore and pieced a better story together. Mostly in thanks to channels like this.
Thank you wolf lord!
Emperor: Welcome my Primarch, my son, you are gifted with the gifts that are matched by none. You will be given your legion of Astartes, and they shall be your weapons to unite the galaxy
Forgotten Primarch: Good, let's celebrate by feasting with the taco.
Emperor: Is today not monday?
Forgotten Primarch: Why yes, by democratic vote, we have decided the taco is to dine whenever to one's choosing.
Emperor:
Emperor: So yeah we'll never talk about him again.
Taco Tuesday is on Friday.
*THE POWERS OF CHOAS PREVAIL!*
lmfao nice!
Ok so here is my logic. I agree with Dorn. Hear me out. Dorn is honest. To a fault. But will not lie directly nor by omission, that I know of. So knowing what I know about The Man Emperor of Mankind and knowing what I know about Dorn I trust that Dorm is at least telling me the truth as he knows it. While the Emperor....could be telling us a half truth or a lie or a truth that is in fact a lie to protect the actual truth that he is trying to Shepard away from a competing actual truth. So yeah Taco Tuesdays.
@@Taistelukalkkuna You forgot to put a vote!
There is a clue as to what happened with II and XI legion. There was a time in the Great Crusade called Rangdan Xenocides, a war against race or possibly several races under one baner (it's possible that Slaught was part of it, race of worm like beings that are REALLY HARD to kill and has incredible technology on par with NECRONS) called Rangdan, it's said that Rangdan were so horrible that the only things on par or possibly more powerful than them were Necrons at their PRIME and Old Ones (if you are even compared to these two you are scary).
Xenocides were so bad it took many fleets and Titan Legions, several planets were destroyed and 7 LEGIONS had to be thrown at them and one of these legions were II and XI which may imply that it was Rangdan that did something to these legions that had to be fixed by Space Wolves. Oh and even all of that wasn't enough and Emperor had to release VOID DRAGON. Myabe he was riding it creating the most manly and godly image in history of everything. Granted Emps after the thing wiped the memories of most people and little to no people know what actually happened. But the loses were huge, it made Dark Angels and Space Wolves suffer big losses and many fleets and titan legions were gone and II and XI legions were most likely corrupted then purged. Xenocides happened before Alpharius was discovered.
The thing is that Chaos only stole on of the twins. One of them was actually the first found, the other was the last; the true Alpha and Omega. The story of Alpharius is a combined telling of both.
Who knew the Wolf Time would be the day after Christmas? My Wolf Lord playlist grows yet again
When it comes to official lore concerning the Horus Heresy I prefer to use the Forgeworld black book series. Seen as how in interviews BL have stated that since their books often contradict (due to so many authors over such a long period of time) and at times use unreliable narrators, that they're almost non-canonical. And combined with the fact that, until recently, the black book series was written by a single person, and from the perspective of an in-universe historian, I take the black books to be an almost primary source. I still consider BL books to be lore but in cases where they contradict a black book I take Alan Bligh's word over theirs. This being said, however, with the Forgeworld series going on and the death of AB, Black Library and Forgeworld are increasingly in-sync.
I take the HH series as Characterisation pieces and general plot points. Some of the events and conversations just don't make sense in relation to each other.
Awesome work, thank you very much!
But I hope we will one time hear something about the 2 "lost" primarchs.
I always forget that conrad turned. Especially when the Khan didnt.
Magnus actually says he never stopped speaking with his father, so it makes sense that he feels so close to him
Thank you for keeping an eye out for those of us who don't necessarily have a very merry Christmas, it's much appreciated!
I’ve long believed that somehow Oregon was not amongst the scattered but secretly raised on Terra. Thus, the Emperor telling Corax that he had eighteen brothers always made sense to me.
As far as I can tell there's little correlation between the order the Primarchs are found and the distance of their home worlds to Terra. You'd expect Primarchs living on worlds closer to Terra to be found first, although space is big and this does not have to determine the order they are found in.
Also, one can hint at the nature of the two lost Primarchs by considering that each Primarch embodies an aspect of the Emperor. The lost Primarchs therefor emphasize traits we haven't seen in the other Primarchs.
my personal theory for one of the lost Primarchs (and their legion) is that their gene-seed mutation would of made the legionaires into the beings that would later be reclassified as Genestealers, this could fit with the idea of embodying an aspect of the Emperor because Genestealers seem to have an intense compulsion to spread and build up their own empires. perhaps that lost Primarch could of embodied the part of the Emperor that led him to launch the Great Crusade and build the Imperium of Man
And HAPPY HOLIDAYS BRUVAHS!
BRUVAH! 👊
I still believe that when the Emperor made his comment to Corax about the number of brothers he had, is due to the fact that the last two had yet been found. The Emperor also could not explain the discrepancy to Corax without revealing the role Chaos played in separating them all, in the first place.
I was under the impression Lion El'Jonson was found later than 11th, because he had a relatively late start into the Great Crusade which made his legion's accomplishments of 2nd(?) most conquered worlds all the more impressive.
Third found was the second primarch I think, Fulgrim in his Horus Heresy novel (The Palatine Phoenix) muses over his already discovered brothers and also mentions the second primarch, who by that time is not REDACTED yet. Fulgrim describes his brother as silent as far as I remember.
"In the pre-Horus Heresy Primarch series novel Fulgrim: The Palatine Phoenix, Fulgrim describes how of his seven active brothers, they all doubted that the Emperor's Children were worthy due to their handful of Legionaries when Fulgrim took over. Named only the "master of the Second," Fulgrim discusses that the "normally contemplative" brother also joined the other six. Fulgrim also adds that he believed the brother was a hypocrite, quiet, and lacked humor." - Wiki
Clonelord mentions that early on in the Great Crusade one of the Lost Primarchs led an expedition to the Ymgra Monolith which turned out to be a Necron construct similar to the Cadian Pylons. Later on the II an XI Legions fought in the Rangdan Xenocides where the Emperor had to open the Labyrinth of the Night to end the conflict. Maybe there’s a connection between the two events since the C’Tan known as the Void Dragon is trapped inside the Noctis Labyrinthus.
I suspect at least one of the lost primarchs must have been afflicted by either horrible mutations, or xenos subversion, non-functioning insanity, etc. Thus the 'sanction by Russ' would have been seen as justified by the other brothers. It is hinted that Guilliman absorbed at least one of the lost legions into his own.
Alternatively one could have also been deleted for outright refusing to serve the Emperor...which would def get you deleted.
Imagine a primarch in thrall to the Eldar? Or infested by genestealers? Or just found dead. Maybe he suicided to make a point about something, or fell befoul of some lethal Dark Age tech.
blackraver5 yeah all good points. I’d really like to learn more about the lost Primarchs. I don’t think GW will ever do anything though..
There was an event in Great Crusade called Rangdan Xenocides. It was a horrific battle that Imperium almost lost, fight with those xenos took many Titan legions, many planets, 7 Astartes legions and even a Void Dragon to win, one of those 7 legions were II and XI. They were most likely corrupted by Rangdan and then had to be purged. No one really knows what happened during this campgain due to Emperor making everyone forget the details, but what everyone knows is that it was the worst thing to ever happened to Imperium, it made Dark Angels and Space Wolves lose ALOT of their numbers and 2 legions had to be purged.
@@AzraelSoulHunter what do you mean even a void dragon to win ?
@@darthgorthaur258 Void Dragon. Rangdan were so bad Emperor had to release that thing from depths of Mars. Whatever it did it worked (maybe Emps was riding it creating the most manly and godly image in history of universe). No one knows what happened after that. All we know is that if Rangdan were to re appear in current timeline, EVERYONE would be DEAD!
@@AzraelSoulHunter oh right, I was just checking you were talking about that dragon. That is quite a mad image tbf.
One of my favourite wh40k loremasters on youtube, together with arch, leutin, borderprince and remleiz! Love your content and hope you had a good one these holidays!
Konrads meeting was so eerie, definatly one of my favourite interactions, but i dont think it would have changed him if big E found him earlier...he was practically doomed from the moment he made another hole in Nostramo, the night lords already we're quite fond of using terror tactics before their primarch came back to the fold. I think it was just who he was, and so his legion embodied that
That's my reading of Kurze too. One of the most terrible things the Emperor could say was "Send in the Eighth". Cruelty was in his nature, as it was in his gene-sons.
@@mouseketeery remember when they blew up a city into the (once) mariana trench..? So yeah you got that on point
My holidays always suck, thanks for the video! Awesome job man. Can't wait to see future uploads.
Honestly, they all look like heavy metal enthusiasts.
Except Vulkan.
I absolutely loved this video!!! Gonna share to my local group so we can have a deep dive on this
Thing I found find most interesting is that for the most part, later legions are a lot more specialized while the first couple fill quite a few role. Just thought it kinda cool.
The Lost Primarch that was Third Found, is the "Master of the Second", according to Fulgrim. According to Fulgrim, the "Master of the Second" was one of the original Eight Primarchs.
Also, regarding the Lost Primarchs being removed before Corax, it is apparently since been retconned by Black Library according to a specific rumour I heard once.
master of the second as in second legion
@@jyejyebinks The Second Legion is one of the two Lost Legions, the Master of the Second, would be the Primarch of the Second Legion. A Lost Primarch.
Dark Innovator yeah... What I was getting at
@@jyejyebinks Ah, apologies. For a moment I thought you were talking about Russ, the second Primarch found, but not the Second Primarch made.
I would like to see someday something about the two ::CENSORED BY IMPERIAL DECREE:: For some archive on Mars or some other Mechanicum world to have that data. It has been stated at least in Titanicus that Mars doesn't delete data - but they do sequester it. If that information remains intact anywhere it is in some vault on Mars or on a forge world nearby wherever the primarchs were located.
Well at the very least we know Cawl has access to pure, untainted gene seed of every primarch, including the traitors and the lost. He also has the memories of one of the scientists who helped with the primarch project, so information about the lost 2 might be in Cawl's head
Great video again. . . as usual. I am a fan of the Lion, and it always impresses me that he has about as many worlds to his tally as the 1st Found Horus and biggest legion Guilliman, who was also found earlier than the Lion.
King Baldwin IV
The Dark Angels legion had the tally - as well they should, given they were the first.
@@kelman727, According to Russ in his primarch novel, the Lion and Guilliman were earning the worlds, not their legions.
He expanded on this by stating that, in the end, it will likely be the Lion and Guilliman that have the most worlds to their name.
He did not indicate their legions, he was specific. This was even considering that, at the time, Russ disliked the Lion.
The Lion was the best world conquerer, Guilliman did it through numbers and logistics.
@@kelman727, no they did not. The tally of the Lion was top 2 of the primarchs, and that includes the time off they took for the pro-bono job of SAVING THE IMPERIUM OF MAN during the 1st and 2nd wars of the Rangdan Xenocide. . . you're welcome.
The First is the best legion, the best primarch, trusted and faithful, capable beyond the other legions.
The Emperor trusted the Lion over Guilliman. The Lion proved more faithful than Horus. The Lion did more with less time and a legion that needed to be built back up after losing tens of thousands SAVING THE IMPERIUM. . . twice. . . during the Rangdan Xenocide.
Wolf Lord Rho,
Personally I dont believe the 2 lost Primarchs were purged for necessarily bad things. I tend to believe that they wanted greatness for Humanity but did not see eye to eye with their Fathers vision.
I see those 2 brothers as more cases of the Father wanting them for the family business but they wanted to set on their own path.
The Emperor could not tolerate this, should it dissolve his Inperium and let the other Primarchs think this.
This, execution for such circumstance would not only explain why the Primarchs and Emperor are somewhat surprised by Heresy, but also why Horus was so angry with Malcador removing the statues.
The brothers weren't evil...they weren't Chaos...they just went down a different path, one that wasn't necessarily wrong or evil...and they were destroyed for being to...human.
it's hinted by Sanguinius that the lost Primarchs may of been purged due to some mutation present in their legions (which is why Sanguinius wanted to hide the red thirst in the blood angels). while it is possible that they didn't have a good relationship with the emperor it's important to think that if falling to chaos wasn't bad enough to warrent erasure from the records then how bad would the views of the lost Primarchs of been
personally I firmly believe that genestealers might be the result of one of the lost legion gene mutations, it seems like something that would be bad enough to warrent a full (attempted) purge and I feel like there are some definite similarities between the Genestealers' use of "germ-seeds" and the Space Marines' use of gene-seeds (mostly in the fact that both result in superhuman entities bearing mutations based on the group that implanted the seed)
0:08-0:16 you're a good lad, Rho. Thank you.
Happy Christmas mate, can’t afford to send you anything but can I say I really really appreciate your video. They really help people like me. Won’t go into details but thank you from the bottom from my heart this time of year.
Leman Russ is the best by the way hehe he sells himself as a simple fool but he wants people to underestimate him.
Fcking furries xD good choice tho, i prefer Curze or Perturabo
Chaos boiisss
I love the portraits of the different primarchs you've used in this video.
Love these kinds of vids, I would really like to see a Primarch ranking video. Ranking them in anyway from strongest to weakest smartest to dumbest whatever. I just love talking Primarchs & this is what I always think about
The Emperor makes Goku look like a dedicated father. 🐸☕
Hey Wolf Lord and happy holidays! I pressed the like button before starting the video. I hope there is no problem with that.
I love that for basically any 40k question I have, I can find an entire video on it!
Love your work, great lore video!
Good stuff. Merry Christmas Wolf Lord.
Doesn’t the emperor discuss Angron with Arkan land in one of the books? It’s not much but probably all we’ll get Love you videos dude 😁👍
MrProdigy1001
Yes - while the latter was unconscious on the operating table.
That was “The Master of mankind,” by ADB. Big E is asking Land to help identify the buther’s nails.
Great video I love your content keep it up
Such a good video. Yes, please do a video on 'what if Horus was not found first.' I love pre-corrupted Horus, and those moments when we see Warmaster Horus's humanity are always awesome. Love to hear your thoughts on him.
Keep it up mate. Love listening to lore
Merry Christmas Rho and the 40k community :)
Great lore video!
Magnus and the Emperor was communication telepathically from the moment Magnus's conscious formed in his cradle. He says so in A Thousand Son's book.
still my head cannon that the two missing Primarchs weren't killed mainly because of how shocked the others were at the death of Ferrus, Lorgar actually questioning if they can die till Angron reminds him.
the lost I think could be a warp storm or possibly going beyond the boundaries of known space and the purged were just the purging of the legion rather than killing the Primarch or maybe the purged just left taking his legion with him and the disgrace purged his name from the records
Indeed. Besides GW has a sweet couple of cards up their sleeve to make more money. Imagine the hype behind a "Lost Primarch" returning. Lol.. bananas.
Happy Xmas Rho!!! And hope its a great new year!
Two personal notes I always think about when discussing the Primarch discovery order:
1) I like the thought that Alpharius was the first found Primarch, kept secret from the Imperium, and Omegon was found last(and more publicly). Finding your master of stealthy warfare first and not declaring it makes a ton of sense to me, and if he were found first that would explain both the naming of the "Alpha"(first) Legion, and the arrogance Alpharius projects.
2) In my headcanon, we know who the II Legion was - the Lightning Bearers. Their creator(whose name escapes me) wrote phenomenal bits of lore about his legion and Icarion, their Primarch. And the way it's written goes a long way to explaining why Russ is the way he is. If you haven't read about the Icarion and Lightning Bearers, I'd highly recommend looking for the original B&C threads following the project.
In one picture, you see marines holding the banner of Fulgrim and also holding the banner with a snake on it. The Alpha Legion didn't use that symbol until long after Fulgrim went to chaos. Therefore the snake symbology was probably one of the two missing primarchs.
In Old School WHFB, each Chaos god has an associated animal "mascot", ravens for Tzeentch, flies for Nurgle, warhounds for Khorne and snakes for Slaanesh.
@@Shortthoughtslive I thought that Nurgle had a crow for his symbol (at least that's what represents him in Total War Warhammer, Tzeentch seems to have both ravens and eagles depending on context, Nurgle has the crow, Khorne has hounds and Slaanesh has serpents)
Thanks bro rho this is really helpful and interesting
Wolf Lord Rho for the love of the emperor, please tell me what is the song in the background
I remember you posting it in one of your videos, bjt cant seem to find it.
I love the content and man I agree we need some Sanguinius and Emperor stuff. These two are would be epic. Also we need the Rangdan genocide as well. Man or have Sanguinius come back imbued with saintly powers after 10k years of Sanguinala as the true Angel of the Emperor.
Edit it's also interesting that Sanguinius had the largest space fleet and third largest Legion behind the Ultramarines and Iron Warriors. He had the 3rd most victories behind Horus and the Lion. He was such a great all around Primarch and Konrad is my other favorite Primarch.
If the Emperor had found my boy Mortarion first ..oh man that would have been one bad ass crusade !! :)
Or Curze
The lost and the forgotten, is a hint to what happened. The lost meaning that primarch failed in some way, but did not betray the emperor or be subject to chaotic coppurtion. I.E. fell in battle, lost in the warp,or something similar. While the forgotten would be a betrayal but similar to Lorgar worshipering the emperor. In the First heretic, gives 2 hints to this. The first is discussion between Lorgar and Magnus in the city of flowers. The second being the scene in the Emperor's laboratory.
I like how Magnus communicated The Emperor Psychically long before his arrival on Prospero
Its really an interesting discussion, especially if you take part in the discussion of “Does the order effect who would become Warmaster?” especially in regards to Horus, Sanguinius, Lion, Roboute, Lehman, & Magnus.
I like the idea that Malcador and the Big E messed with their memories slightly (except for Russ him being the Emperors executioner)
By Deliverance Lost the two missing legions have already been purged.
I think they missed a trick not making one of the lost Primarchs the first found. Could have had Horus look up to him, feel shattered by his loss, feel unequipped to take his spot as first among equals and feel terrified by the thought that if the most beloved could be axed, none of them were safe with the emperor around. All of this have would added to his justification to go traitor, which in the present cannon I have felt was a bit weak.
What if one of the lost primarchs was raised in a planet infested with xenos of almost every kind? And when he grew up, he created a society that had humans and xenos living in a multi-cultured world. Xenos that couldn’t be in a civilization like the Orks were obviously killed and viewed as enemies to repel. However, the lost primarch welcomed Eldar and other pre 40K xenos to live under his banner. No race was dominant over the other. Etc. When the Emperor arrived, he destroyed it all and attempted to capture the lost primarch and recondition him to be human only. He resisted and escaped his home planet. He attempted to stir a resistance against the Emperor, getting several currently extinct xeno empires to unite against him. With the Imperium still early in its development and only 2 primarchs found, the resistance had a chance. Eventually though, the lost primarch was killed by Russ, and his resistance didn’t last long after that.
This just makes me even more curious about who the lost ones are.
Nainakai Ayita I was thinking one of the alpha legion Primarcs are one of the missing two and that’s why it was a secret from everyone else. Something happen to the marines so the emperor just moved him to the alpha til he could find the solution. What u think
Carl Steudl But why would Omegon and Alpharius be referred to as twins then ? There’s so many things that don’t add up
Idk but there’s others that are said to look alike , I was just tring to come up with a reason why they were wiped from history
I doubt we'll really get any in depth lore on the II and XI legions, as players have been using them for homebrew chapters for years, it's just kind of convenient to leave it open ended and vague
Your such a boss mate!
(scrolls through new video list) Welp, guess I'll watch your video for a fourth time.
The first psychic communication between Magnus and The Emperor:
Magnus is just chilling, reading some occult books and suddenly hears a powerful voice say "what a fucking nerd you are"
It all makes very particular sense 👍
Thank Veronika Anruthi for that awesome Primarch and Emperor icon painting!
I would like to see Lion talking to the tomb after the siege and that talk leading up to the wolf lord bearing his breast and asking the Lion to kill him (if still cannon).
I've always found the GC and HH only been 200 years more or less odd when some of the Primarch's are said to have spent years with the emperor I understand they learn quick but still to learn all that they where meant to know or desired to know should take some time there still part human after all. 2 and 11 I would love to see a hint as to why they where "removed from imperial records" that would still leave them open for what if DIY chapters.
Well Big E and Magnus had met in the warp long before he was found in the physical.
Also, I've always suspected that Alpharius (Omegon?) was found earlier than the official histories say, perhaps much much much earlier and he was simply out working, doing the sort of work that only he (and his twin) could do. Something that was kept a secret from even the other Primarchs.
I do have one issue with the list. I think Jagatai Khan was found before Lion El'Johnson. In Decent of Angels, the first mission given to the Dark Angels was to relieve a force of White Scars overseeing the Compliance of Sarosh. If the Khan had been found after wouldn't they have been referred to as the Star Hunters the Fifth Legions Original Name?
Alpharius was the first found . His pod never left terra. Later he became omeggon and omeggon who was last found became alpharius.
Has anyone here heard about this fan theory that Sigmar who founded the empire from warhammer fantasy was actually one of the lost primarchs and the reason why he was denounced by the Emperor was that he became the God of humanity in that world which goes against the Imperial truth of being worshipped? In regards to the Fantasy versus 40k arguement GW never came out, and actually stated that they were different universes. Also there are two missing Space Marine Legions in the 40k universe meaning there are also two missing Primarchs. Sigmar by any comparison was no normal human being, and had many traits befitting a Primarch.
Another case for this arguement is that the Old Ones in Fantasy are a direct link to the Old Ones in 40k. They're both described as reptillian star beings who were fighting a war across the galaxy against an unknown enemy (Necrons). Humans were created along side Orks, and the other species to help this towards this end. The Elves in Fantasy could simply be a colony of Eldar who escaped the great collapse of the Eldar Empire, and forgot their ancestry.
The world that the Fantasy genre inhabits could simply be surrounded by a warpstorm that never dissipated making it impossible for the Emperor of Mankind to find it.
For goodness sake Leman Russ, and Sigmar have very similar backgrounds both becoming the likes of Kings/Emperors on their worlds. Sigmar didn't leave to join a pantheon of Gods but perhaps did as the Lion did. The pantheon of the Gods could be one elaborate scheme to hide the true fact the Gods are in fact the Imperium of Man!!
I mean hell Sigmarines are carbon copies of Space Marines fighting on multiple planes of the material universe, and immaterial universe. The Lion was able to construct rudimentary Bolters on his home world! Sigmar could have simply made rudimentary copies of Power Armor.
Also the Chaos Gods aren't as different as you would think...
I feel that the Dark Angels were ordered to Destory the lost 19th legion in secret. Its why the Emperor fully trusts the Lion but everybody else is kind of suspicious of them. As one day one of the Primarchs asked where the 19th Legion is and the Emperor says "We will not talk of them. The Dark Angel's have destroyed them". Then the Primach asks "but why father?". The Emperor solemnly responds "Because it was my order to have them disposed of son"
The 19th legion is the raven guard
@@goatman9998 Didnt realise that but You are right well that took all the mystic and interesting parts of the 19th Legion.
I always liked to think of the "deleted" 19th Primarch as Omegon, in the sense of Big E deciding that he'll keep his existence a secret when he found him and Alpharius. So technically, it would make sense that Corax was found before the deleted 19th, the flaw here is that the Emperor told Corax he had 18 brothers and two more they would talk about another time. So not only would that mean that Omegon and the 19th Primarch couldn't be the same person, but also that Corax would've known that there are actually 21 Primarchs and one is still missing after they found Alpharius.
Yet Corax - at least to my knowledge - never wondered about that and I highly doubt he forgot about his first meeting with the Emperor, since the question of who had created him plagued him for a very long time and at that very moment, he not only met the one who did, but also learnt that he was not alone.
W O L F L O R D R H O
HAPPY HOLIDAYS TO YOU BROTHER 💪💪💪
One would think that Rogal and Roboute would be found among the first given they inhabited interstellar empires that would've come into contact with the Imperium earlier during the crusade.
Also Imagine how Impy felt: he finds Rogal and his Empire and adds it to the Imperium without hassle, then he finds Roboute and adds an even bigger chunk of stars to his realm and then he finds the pen-ultimate piece to his master plan in the face of Magnus! Can't stop him now!
happy sanguinala
the emperor protects...
I just bought Wolfsbane. Great so far
I know it would contradict them being erased from history, but I would love some lore on the lost primarchs
Didnt GW do the "lost primarchs" to hive the players the freedom to build their own Legion to play on the tabletop?
I think that would be a pretty cool thing to play out your own legion with their own player written back story and stats.
I read that somewhere too, and I think it's a good thing.
Yes but that was before the novellas existed. Now w40k is more than a simple tabletop game.
@@MiggeS oh yeah, totally understand.
I'm almost through the Horus Heresy series.
AMAZING STUFF!!!
MONUMENTAL scifi.
Regarding your musings on the lost primarchs deeds I always thought it had nothing to do with treason. For me these two must have committed a rebellious act but with good intentions or due to misguidance, something very similar to what Magnus did, something the Emperor would have previously forbade but left enough moral ambiguity ground for Horus and the others being angry at their brothers's erasure and consequent disrespect.
Lion El'Jonson, is the Eldest son. Very interesting and awesome.
I really want to know more about the Lost & The Purged. Even if we don’t get names ( so hobbyists can make their own up; which is dumb ). I want to know some aspects of personality or why they were looked down upon and forgotten. Maybe even battle tomes of their exploits.
Also I always pitch to 40K theories to do one on, what if Kurze never landed where he did. Maybe on a planet that had a positive influence on him. What would he have become? Or would he still have a tragic end?
Had the wolf, the lion, or the angel been found first I think everything would have been different. I also think that each primarch was designed for a purpose and with that Sanguinous was the primarch of faith in the emperor and empire.
Knowing how at odds the Emporer and Angron were, its surprising that he wasn't made ex-communicate as well. So that tells me the 2 lost Primarchs must have REALLY screwed up to be wiped from the record book.
Not surprisingly since the 3rd Primarch had over 30 kids when he was found. That was crazy.
The other possibility of why Horus was discovered first is that the Caos gods engineered the scattering to put Horus into being found by placing him on the closest planet so that the Emperor would detect him psychically.
Personal theory: the twins were made twins because each had a different purpose, and each had secrets from the Emperor that the other didnt know. Or that at least Omegon kbew things that Alpharius didnt. Alpharius was military intelligence and ops but Omegon was something different. Perhaps more related to the warp and the gods and the big E himself. I kind of feel Omegon is loyalist and is part of a much bigger longer game that only him and the big E know about, not the other Primarchs, not even Alpharius.
I wonder one thing. And it about these two lost Primach. When did they get killed? When they was found or later after joining crusade? Because I wonder how many of these eighteen primach know anything about them. Have Ferrus and/or Fulgrim met the third found primach for example and so on. Not I want GW shall tell us more about them. But did any of them make friend with them before they was killed? How did they get effected about that? I think about Sang look affected about that and worried about emperor, the father should find out his flaw.
EDIT: Thinking about Horus was not happy to that he and his father found his brother Russ in first meeting. So I guess next Primach effect him a lot becuase he was killed. Which we can see when Malcador remove statue of primach. Maybe there it start samll but slowy grow into Horus Heresy.
Could it be the 11th Primarch was utterly corrupted by the Rangdan? It sorta hinted after the Rangdan xenocide the remains of the 11th Legion was absorbed into the Ultramarines.
When Alpharius was discovered, were he and Omegron together from the start or did they find each other later?
I wonder what would've happened if angron had been found before the implantation of the nails.
I think he'd be the same. His base Gene-Seed is still super aggressive among his Brothers, as soon he was found by his adopted father he was still thrown into the arena before his grew mature enough for the Nails.
Angron would have been Russ 2.0..
Craptin_Hero Actually, we do not know that. Angron was just being defensive and pissed. Every Primarch was “born” from their pods with higher intelligence than fully grown men. He was probably fully aware of just what was going on around him. Wouldn’t you be super pissed off from that? As far as we can tell from his Legion before they met him, he might have been closer to Lion El’ Johnson, being a blood thirsty berserker with nobility, honour and loyalty. As that’s how the World Eaters originally were before him.
@@theark4568 I don't think they were anything like the Dark Angels. I believe they were more along the lines of early Blood Angels when they were referred to as Revenants. They were blood thirsty and savage. Just think they lacked any, restraint.
Craptin_Hero We’re not talking legions here.
We’re talking Primarchs.
I was merely mentioning his gene-sons because they are mini-Angrons due to the Gene-Seed
2nd and 11th Legions were 'lost' for one simple reason - to allow players to create their own custom Legions. That's it. As for you being convinced the Emperor knew about the Alpha twins because he grew them in a tank together - you're forgetting one thing. It's so obvious it's easy to miss. The hint is the 'tank' itself. Both Alpharius and Omegon arrived at their respective destinations inside a gestation pod. Meaning each would have to be grown inside a separate tank. Yet by all accounts, in countless novels we can see, that there were only 20 pods. Not 21. When the Alpha gestation pod was lifted off by the warp storm, it was copied and duplicated by the warp, with both versions send on their merry ways. Alpharius and Omegon were more than just twins - they were not 2 individuals with the same DNA. Assuming you cannot copy paste a soul, they were ONE person in two bodies. The Emperor would have no idea.