Preparations for Operation FORAGER- Episode 309
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- Опубликовано: 20 ноя 2023
- This week Seth and Bill dive into the preparation for Operation FORAGER, the American invasion of the Mariana Islands in June 1944. The team discusses the absolutely massive amount of materiel, men, ships and logistics involved as the largest amphibious operation mounted thus far in the Pacific, kicks off. The team also takes a look at the West Loch disaster at Pearl Harbor.
For all our of our episodes on the Battle for Saipan, check these links out:
• The Invasion of Saipan...
• The Invasion of Saipan...
• The Invasion of Saipan...
• Preparations for Opera...
The climactic battle of the 1944 campaign, Saipan, Tinian and Guam would shape the remainder of the Pacific war insofar as dictating American decisions on how to ultimately end the war with Japan.
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Captain you had me crying with laughter and I rolled out of my chair. That's absolutely my favorite line from any Movie. " Federallies ? We are not Federallies ! I Don't Have to Show You No Stinken Badges" Quote by Alfonso Badouya in "The Treasure of the Sierra Madre' " Single Up ! Cap, and get that Shoulder Ready to Get Underway.
Thanks for covering West Loch. I have a direct connection with the disaster. Covering what is essentially an ammunition ship with fuel barrels shows just what kind of rush they were in to get everything ready. I do know from direct contact with a survivor and this was later reinforced after he passed that he and others were interviewed and told the entire disaster was not to be talked about whatsoever if it got out they would be put in prison.
He took what he saw to the grave with him, however he did talk slightly about it during a very heated argument over what history of the Pacific War made it into books(this was the early 90's) and talked with his Brother in Law prior to that when he was suffering from PTSD pretty badly.(His brother in law was a Infantry veteran of the Italian campaign.) After the disaster he was reassigned to USS Elliot DMS 4 at Pearl Harbor until being sent home almost a year later in a catatonic state due to his final breakdown and discharged. I'm sure alot of other survivors had similar experience but also never spoke of it because as I mentioned they considered it as something that could still land them in prison even decades later as the Navy never contacted them to say the accident had been declassified or publicly admitted to.
I hardly have to say how much I enjoy the episodes. Capt. Toti, We almost had medical treatment at the same time. From Nov. 7 through 18, I was in for urine retention, uti,, and acidophilous, and a slight case of kidneys not up to snuff.
I April,1972 our destroyer went up West Lock to unload our magazines after Westpac. I held a 5-inch shell during the proceedings that said Sept, 1939! Talk about a survivor. Looking across the water we saw the bow of an LST sticking out of the water on the far shore. Some of our history lovers gave me a concise history of the event. So I have kept my mind on the lookout for any new info on it. Fast forward to fairly recently, and I read about some expedition looking over a shallow just outside the pearl entrance. They found the dumping ground from the clean-up of the West Lock that had been done in wartime secrecy. They found what looked like a partial tank(water?). Subsequent thought seems like it was half of one of the Midget subs. In the channel they found Wards sub with the shot hole exactly where they said it should be. I hope you enjoy these small points of trivia.
Nimitz was a clever deep thinker. Supporting Mac may've been an effort to clearly put the monkey back on King and JCS after the terrible casualties at Betio. Not to mention constant flak from Mac. He knew what King's reaction would be. So he ended up being ordered to do what he likely supported all along. While also being friendly to Mac. 😊👍
Yes! That was the first thing that came to my mind. Nimitz is doing some gamesmanship here. I also wondered if maybe King wasn't in on it.
Betio was terrible in the scale of that invasion and I am not belittling or dismissing the sacrifice and courage of that battle. The entire Philippines campaign from Peleliu on cost hundreds of thousands of military and civilian lives that were actually unnecessary for winning the war. MacArthur was criminal in that regard. More and more evidence is coming to light that Mac and Quezon had to get back to Manila to be sure Noone found out the extent to which they had ripped off the Philippine government and people pre war....
This is exactly what I was thinking as I listened to the episode. It was better for Nimitz' relations with MacArthur and the overall success of the campaign if Nimitz could honestly say that he had argued for MacArthur's proposal but been firmly overruled.
The more interesting question is whether King understood what Nimitz was doing. I would guess "no" - he was probably too busy drunkenly seducing his absent subordinates' spouses to give it much thought (for the record I agree with Seth and Bill that King was an outstanding strategic thinker and the right person for his role, but he was not very likable or admirable as a human being).
@@patrickchase5614
King may have understood. Note he repeatedly said "To follow the JCS Directive"! Making clear it wasn't him personally either. (Although he was instrumental in causing that JCS Directive)
Wishing Capt. Toti a spready recovery with minimum pain. What a drag it is getting old (sometimes).
Another outstanding episode and a sad statement. During this episode, Seth you had mentioned about the passing of James Hornfischer. I missed hearing about his passing in 2021 until you had mentioned it in this episode. I immediately checked and read the unfortunate news. I have read all of his books and watched a number of James Hornfischer's seminars and lectures in various forums, and thought he was an outstanding author. A number of individuals/authors have been invited to be part of "Unauthorized History of the Pacific War" and I had wondered to myself when you might invite James Hornfischer as a guest to your channel. I had even contimplated suggesting this in an email or comment, and I am glad I did not. Hopefully your channel will be able to include more information from his great books in the future. Have a great Thanksgiving and appreciate the hard work of you and Bill, and your kind comment about James Hornfischer!!
Once again you guys have done a magnificent job. Thank you.
Captain Toti hang in there. Healing takes time.
Yes it does johnny,and at bills age,probably a couple years to completely heal.Bill,hang in there and be patient.
Especially as you get older.... going through something similar myself, if I were in my 30's and not my late 60's I would be recovered by now. Thirty years makes a difference unfortunately, our bodies slow down no matter how fit we keep ourselves.
The truth if it's ever been told.
Patience. I was told that bones and tendons need at least 4 months to heal. I was 57 (2016) when my knee was reconstructed and 49 when I had rotator cuff reconnection surgery. Both were severed in a bike accident. Took 9 months of rehab/ PT but I have full motion to this day.
During my knee recovery I was working on site at Navsea (IWS-2). One day as I was struggling through the doors of the Humphrey's Building a 2star Admiral came over and held the door for me. I was surprised.
Truth
50:02 dont forget there was a major offensive in Italy during this time too. Three fronts simultaneously and preparing for Operation Dragoon in southern France and Mac's forces in the south Pacific.
Exactly. Task Force 88 covered the Dragoon landings in southern France. Originally planned for June as Operation Anvil, the mid - August landings were a success. The operation secured critical French ports and was a major route for Allied supplies into the ETO by Oct,1944.
In the rush to get the Italian campaign back on schedule(what schedule?), the British dropped their guard over their supply ships, in Bari Harbor, the only deep water port on that side of Italy until you get up to Venice, and the Germans, though reeling, found enough Heinkel bombers to make Bari Harbor into a catastrophe like the one described here. Only much😮 😮worse, because mustard gas bombs were in those ships. All the food and ammo for Monty's troops for the next push, went up when an LST was hit by a German bomb, igniting the whole Harbor. It was like the WW1 HALIFAX Ammo ship tragedy. 😢 awful. And the same stupid complete disdain for commonsense safety behaviors. Smoking in an explosive store!!. People still do it!! Tired and bored are terrible consequences of the routine of war.
I’m thinking you’re right about the U.S. ever producing what they did 1940-45, absolutely astonishing what willing people can accomplish. Thanks for the video and looking forward to more.
You should get Richard B. Frank back on for a interview on the Japanese Army troop losses to USN submarines. Mr. Frank did an article on the troop losses, published in the last three years, on the numbers of Japanese troops lost at sea. The numbers of Japanese troops lost is staggering to imagine.
Wow was up sick with the flu, just rewatched "night the giants rode" and this episode just dropped! Ty Seth and Bill, assorted guests for your uploads. From a signalman 2nd class plankowner of USS Tarawa LHA -1.
I sailed on the LHA-2 USS Saipan with 1/2 Marines to Norway, It was brand new. I was sad to hear the whole class was taken out for target practice after short careers.
I've heard the name Keith Renstrom mentioned a few times and it brought me back to 1980 when my friend got me involved in a local Civil War reinacting group. We were getting ready to march in the Provo, Ut 4th of July parade when a barrell chested man in a Union Army uniform wearing sergeant major stripes came up with 3 or four younger kids to march with us in the parade. Most of us didn't know who he was and one guy went up to our "colonel" to complain about this guy coming up to march with us wearing all the stripes. He said "heck, he's the only one here that deserves to wear any rank!, that's Keith Renstrom and he was a marine that was on Iwo Jima!" That shut the guy up! I best remember Keith as the owner with his wife of the Valley Center Playhouse; a community theater that brought a lot of joy to a lot of people. Keith would always start off the the play with his booming voice: "WELCOME to the Valley Center Playhouse! Enjoy the show!" being a student of WWII I often thought about the hell he lived through and often contemplated the contrast of his current life and the joy he had by providing entertainment to the community. What a great man and thank you for mentioning his name.
Well played. And congratulations to Keith, who lived the life so many of his buddies were denied.
Tuesday has become my favorite day of the week. These episodes have become great companions on long walks. Great job, Seth and Bill. We appreciate all the work you do.
hi guys, well done i keep finding out how lucky we in Australia were to have the U S help us. in our fight against the Japanese. thanks again
Another fantastic episode, Bill & Seth. Fascinating vignette about the episode where Nimitz momentarily supported (or appeared to support) MacArthur's proposals, and then was forcefully snapped back into line by King. This somewhat provides a new angle in considering a later somewhat controversial Nimitz decision which I'm quite sure will get some ample future discussion from you guys: the invasion of Peleliu. The event-sequence might go something like this: a) Nimitz is riding high after the Marshalls, b) supports MacArthur's plan, bucking his own boss because he perhaps overestimates his own political capital, c) is unequivocally disabused of that notion by King, leading to d) a few months later, does NOT feel he has sufficient latitude to cancel or otherwise alter the planned Peleliu operation. In other words, didn't want to "poke the bear" again so soon.
All that said...like you, Seth & Bill, to me something doesn't add up about this event. Nimitz was exceptionally politically astute, and at face value, the story just doesn't make sense. An alternative explanation is that he was very well aware (c'mon, he HAD to be) of how it would play out...but proceeded anyway because essentially it was a win-win situation. He knew King would intervene and order him to carry on with the plan that of course Nimitz had every intention of executing anyway. But meanwhile, he would have appeared to have tried hard to cooperate with and support MacArthur, thereby enhancing MacArthur's regard for Nimitz and improve their working relationship going forward. ("hey, here's another Navy guy like Bull Halsey than I can work with.") I would go so far as to suspect this might even have been a bit of a "kabuki dance" in which King and Nimitz at least tacitly conspired. Not necessarily as a planned thing per se, but perhaps King thinking "ok, I see what Chet is doing here. Nice move. Alright, I'll play my part....which is to blister all the paint off his office walls with this telegram, which is what I was going to do anyway."
Very well articulated. I look forward to Seth, Bill and Jon (maybe Trent Hone?) dissecting these latest insights into the King, Mac and Nimitz dance. I wonder how MacArthur’s other ambitions were playing out at this time. Context is always important.
“I’m not sure that Nimitz would have approved of the word fungus to describe the 5th fleet…” ha ha
Im sorry that you are having pain Bill but, you’re sharing some of that with me. Pain from laughing.
Happy Thanksgiving
One of the things I really like about your presentations is the human element, both personal and the war presentations. Feel better, Captain Toti.
This human element adds hugely to the standard historical accounts. Part of learning from history involves UNDERSTANDING history, and the persistence of human foibles and fallibility is generally under-represented in the standard accounts. Aside from the information about the human factors, their inclusion also makes these accounts more relatable and engaging and increases listeners' attention.
My 4th grade teacher was Mr. Hartwell, he was a signalman on a LST in WWII in the Pacific I believe. He was the best teacher I ever had.
You can visit LST 325 if you are near Evansville Indiana. I did last Sept and it was fascinating.
I had one like him. Kids who paid attention like you were the desires of that veteran's heart.!
Praying for your recovery Skipper and hey
I know you men have done tons of work on this pod cast. B.Z.
I was 6th fleet tin cans, sorry we did not get a chance to play war games with you Skipper.
Thanks for showing me the underside of the waters we sailed.
My dad talked about Garipan on one of the few times he spoke about his Marine time.
Howdy there folks! Excellent overview of the planning and buildup for the invasion of the Marianas in 1944. Seth and Capt Bill put on a masters class of naval history.
That's the mission..
Great job! I always look forward to Tuesday. Love the format and especially the content..i have watched this 3 tune, just to catch all the learning.
You guys said that you will talk about Biak in the future, thank you, thank you, thank you. No one ever talks about Biak which of course is where my dad (USAAF) served.
Bill, if your still having pain at this time consider alternating Tylenol and Advil every 2 or 3 hours. Brother in law did that with a new knee and it worked really well for him.
Yay, huzzah, more John Parshal, now we need more Drachinefel. You guys are the best. Been subscribed to you since your 3rd episode. Keep up the awesome work. (former sailor myself FC1)
Thanks, guys, a necessary precursor to the "big one". I have also marveled at the Allies' ability to stage two almost simultaneous major invasions literally on opposite sides of the globe, plus carrying out an intense air campaign over Europe, and preparing more B29 units for the Pacific as well as supporting Mac's operations, advances in Italy and supporting the other Allies and other peripheral campaigns.
Thank you both for taking on this project. I look forward to Tuesday as it means a new episode. Your coverage of the personalities involved as well as the events is most enlightening.
This was a great build up to the Saipan invasion aptly covered by Seth and Bill. I am looking forward to next week's show. Good to see Bill doing better despite his pain. Thanks for the new insights about Admiral Nimitz's reservations and doubts. Say what you want about Admiral King, he certainly provided the leadership needed to allay his subordinates fears. I never knew this fact. Good work Seth.
Thank you Bill and Seth.
Wishing you gentlemen a happy and wonderful thanksgiving filled with the love of family and friends, bless you both. Mr. Toti I know what you are going through on the rotator surgery, fortunately I have full range of motion with both arms even though left was done over twenty years ago, so stick with it sir and yours too will be all good again. I thank you both for all the videos and hard work you put into the videos.
Seth, Captain, just wanted to let youknow you have a fanatic follower in Albania that barely waits for 11 am on tuesdays. Worst thing is i am a dentist, as soon as the new episode is up on youtube, i lose concentratoin on whatever procedure i am performing...poor patie ts
Top comment here 👍
@@DaveSCameronthnx Dave, it's true
Ok we know what time to not schedule an appointment with you if we are in Albania......😂.....can't have the Doctor and patient both lose concentration at the same time.
Another excellent show guys.
Haha excellent!
Great one guys. Get well soon Bill.
Hello Seth and Bill,
I've always been fascinated with the island of Saipan, as my father spent his 18th birthday there as a Seabee back in October 1944. I've read that Saipan and Tinian, differing from Guam many miles south, had a more subtropical or even temperate climate as opposed to the jungle conditions on Guam. Also as you've mentioned, Saipan has a small urban area in Garapan, which would become the first challenge of house to house fighting in the Pacific (later to be very much expanded upon in Manila).
I know that my father talked about one rather ill-advised souvenir hunt that he went on with a buddy up in the caves on Saipan, which he told me that even months after the battle had the horrible stench of incinerated and decaying bodies as the US forces employed flamethrowers to deal with the stubborn Japanese resistance. I'm sure recreational hiking was strongly discouraged in October 1944 as likely there were still some very alive Japanese troops in some of those caves.
I ran across your videos & as an Australian, find it interesting with your detail & inclusion of allies battles in the broader picture.
Outstanding once again
Excellent prelude to the battles of Saipan and Tinian. You two provide detail and perspective difficult to find elsewhere. As a boy, my family lived in Saipan 25 years after the battle. The scars and vivid evidence of war were still around in too many examples to list here. Am looking forward to your next episode. Keep up the great work!
One possibility with Nimitz 'skip the Marshals play' may have been a ploy. We do not know how many people in Washington were holding up or interfering in the innovations needed to make the Island hopping campaign possible? New ships, new amphibious apcs, fixing the damn torpedo's and radios. By going to an extreme he may have scared those bureaucrats out of the way. One of the Australian officers, Blamey, did that trick in Canberra to shut up troublesome politicians. He gave them casualty numbers for one operation in New Guinea that was horrendous.
In addition Nimitz knew alot about the Philipines. He made several visits, as well as assigned the naval personnel left there in prison camps.
Shoulder surgery is one of the most painful recovery scenarios possible. Our family has hips, knees, spines and shoulder surgery experience. Please take extra care of yourself sir. Praying for a prompt recovery for you, Sir.
Congratulations on 22.5K subs. You guys should have 2.25 million subs. Another awesome episode guys, Bravo Zulu. Hang in there Captain Toti; healing from surgery takes time.
Thanks, guys. Another great episode. Really interesting to get some insight into the planning and build up for one of these operations.
I loved Supernova in the East (Dan Carlin). I believe your Pacific War podcast is even better!
Nice encouraging comment. This is a great production when our nation needs a WAKE-UP about how good we CAN BE, AND have been. It's NOT a myth.
The BBs and CVEs of TF51 were, oddly, good matches with each other. They had similar speeds, and as used were both "good enough" and freed up the more capable TF58 to range and raid more freely.
Unfortunately, all it really did was allow Halsey to be careless without personal consequence. Not so much for Taffy 3, and USS Johnston, others who suffered because of Halsey's war fatigue, intellectual lack. Halsey was correctly assessed by his partner in narcissistic pursuits. Great guy to drink with, but not all that brilliant.
You should have Sal Mercogliano on to discuss the logistics of these operations. His channel "What's Going On In Shipping", is amazing as is his analysis of the US Merchant Marine in various conflicts including several shows on early war logistics.
Great channel
Absolutely love Sal.
Excellent job as usual gentlemen. Bill I used a bag of cheap frozen peas to help quite a bit while rehabbing from rotator cuff surgery. Hope your recovery stays on an even keel.
Assuming he’s had the Supraspinatus muscle reconnected it’s pretty near the surface. 5 mins max with the peas, then
10 to 15 mins for the area to warm up again and repeat.
Another issue will be muscle weakness d/t inactivity. And (of course) the dreaded scar tissue.
@@davidelliott5843 Yeah cold/warm alternative therapy. Breaking the scar tissue was a joy.
Avoiding scar tissue is why a new hip is exercised the day after surgery. It sounds mad but it’s by far the best option. SS muscle will be the same though correct technique will extremely important.
It was the supraspinatus. And yes, it's weak.
@@UnauthorizedHistoryPacificWar Well hang in there and Happy Thanksgiving.
You guys have given me a great reason to look forward to Monday. I've had a short conversation on Quora with Bill -- your efforts are hugely appreciated.
This channel has been my favourite sleeping aid as of recent, sufficiently interesting content to keep mind occupied and soothing voices to put it to rest.
Gentlemen, another outstanding program! Please continue with this project. It is a wonderful tool for educating people about WW2, its causes, its terrible costs, how it effects affects us all to this day, and many very import lessons we need to learn - again.
Great setup guys! Thank you. Can’t wait for next Tuesday!
Hang in there, Captain.
Excellent work gentlemen. I am pleased (that) you brought up Mr Hornfischers work. "Neptunes Inferno" and "Last stand of The Tin Can Sailors" are essential reading and amazingly well written books on the Navy in the PTO. Thanks gentlemen I appreciate your presentations. PS: Captain Toti you are a historian, along with Seth. Sir, "if the shoe fits". Thanks Captain.
Very good read
@@user-hb7gp1bj5q Please allow me to recommend Ian Toll's Trilogy on the PTO and Rick Atkinson's trilogy on the African and ETO. The best book on USMC Eugere Sledge (superb5 star) "The Old Breed", Robert Lecky (5/5 also) "Helmet for My Pillow". Thanks.
As an old tin can sailor, "Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors" is a great book
Awesome comment!!
@@josephgilorma6979 thanks for your service sir.
Perhaps you could do an episode on the smaller warships, such as the DEs. Stafford wrote 'Little Ship Big War" about the USS Abercrombie. USS Roberts, USS England and USS Tabberer all performed extraordinarily well.
I would think they will touch on them when they do the battle of the Phillipine Sea. The did also touch on them in their episodes on the Solomon Islands specifically after Guadalcanal
Again and again your episodes bring home how we stand on the shoulders of giants. Great work.
every episode keeps improving. excellent format.
Another great episode. Keep up the good work and thank you for time you devote to educating us!
Thanks
Thank you
I know that the Naval War College had Admiral Nimitz's journal that he kept during the war. I am curious if this has ever been compiled and released as a book to the public and if the things you discussed in this episode are contained in them. Great episode, gentlemen!
I knew an old marine who went on to be director of admissions at my college..later in his life he wore a cap that said on the back.... Saipan , Tinian and Iwo JIma.. I pointed it out to my daughter and my wife and told them it was the hell on earth trifecta.
Wow bill you mentioned the pintado, my favorite boat ,and yes I visited west lock as a 18 year old I knew ,great content again, thank you
Best wishes Captain Toti
Great episode. I really like your focus on the innovations occurring throughout this campaign. It would be great to focus on this for an episode, maybe with Trent Hone. Learning Organisations are very complex and challenging. However in hindsight it appears that Nimitz established a near perfect organization that delivered innovations in technology, doctrine, logistics, and so on, on a truly massive scale, and at breakneck speed. All of this had to be interleaved with the equally massive innovations back home in creating the Arsenal of Democracy.
Looking back it all seems perfectly logical and linear, but at the time it was all about massive uncertainties and decisions that would impact the lives of millions. And in this context Nimitz proved to be an exceptional leader and visionary.
Another excellent show guys!
Guys, thank you once again for all the fine work you do here. I had heard of that explosion before, but not with any real detail. I was shocked at just how bad it was.
Gentlemen, yet another excellent episode setting up Forager! Cap, it looks like the crow was gourmet and treated you well. A very interesting take on Nimitz, Mac, and King.
There is a lot happening in May 1944 heading in to Forager. In February, following the victory at Eniwetok, the navy began building up major naval bases in the Marshalls which were important support bases for the Marianas Operations. The buildup of Naval Base Majuro, Naval Base Kwajalein, and Naval Base Eniwetok were impressive in scope. I read about ships going back to Majuro or Eniwetok for repairs or resupply between days on station at Saipan, Tinian, and Guam. Any perspective you or fellow authors/historians could give of the mid-Pacific atoll bases would be very interesting. Coming up later in the summer of 1944, there was the occupation of Ulithi Atoll and the major naval base constructed there. Another fascinating story.
I’m looking forward to hearing more about the fights at Wakde and Biak, where Japan changed strategy to what we dealt with at Peleliu, Iwo Jima, and Okinawa.
Of course the Marianas were so key, with so many stories to tell like you were able to do with Guadalcanal and the fight up the Solomons chain.
Love your work gentlemen. I am such the fan!
You out did yourselves again. Another great episode on a pivotal operation. Thank you!
Looking forward to to Saipan, Tarawa, and Iwo Jima!! I know you guys are going to have a ton of info on each. You guys are literally breaking down EVERY detail of the Pacific War, even Admirals and Generals I never heard of. Kudos to Seth and the Skipper!✌🏾👍🏾👌🏾✊🏾🙏🏾.
Very interesting. I was most interested in hearing about the West Loch disaster. My grandfather was a salvage diver stationed at Waipio Salvage Base. I'm not sure of the exact dates he was there but we have some photos that he took when he was there and we never knew what they were until another relative identified one of them as likely being of an LST (or different ones) that were destroyed in the disaster. Thank you. This sheds a bit more light on a bit of family history.
Great episode; learned a lot of data that I had never heard before. Thanks
amazing job guys, thank you. once again, superb timing, im in the part of Ian Toll's The Conquering Tide that deals with the Marianas.
I can't believe I've never heard or read about the disaster at West Lock. I've been reading about and watching documentaries on WWII since I was 11 in 1999. This disaster isn't just a tragedy. We actually suffered more dead from this than we did taking Kwadjelein.
In capital ships - CVs and BBs - considered as a category, TF58 was larger than the pre-war USN. Another comparison ... at PH, the 6 carriers of Kido Butai overwhelmed a major base complex for several hours, and then got out of Dodge. TF58 overwhelmed the Marianas and hung around, helping, as "Dodge City" was invaded.
I love these preparation videos. Captain Toti I hope your wing heals soon. I want to wish both Seth and Skipper Bill and all the family a very Happy Thanksgiving. Don't stuff yourself like I plan on doing.
My dear friend and mentor bob, who saw some of the terrible fighting in the Pacific first hand came back home with a hatred of the Japanese, came back to our unit one day with an anger I could not understand. He told me that his wife came home and told him she had bought a new car and got a great deal on it. So in his excitement he went outside only to find a "Toyota" parked in his driveway. For years he refused to ride in it or have it parked in his garage. That is when he told me of some of the fighting he had seen. He told me that when he returned home after the war, he and his unit had to go to Fort Lewis, WA and be observed for a time before he was discharged and sent home. I will never forget it or him, may he RIP.
In the 1st 20 minutes you mentioned B-29s from China. My Dad was in the CBI and flew as radio/load master on C-46 Curtiss Commandos. Most of his missions were flying av gas to the B-29s from Chabua, India to China in '44-45. I asked him how they kept track of the weight of the cargo to not be over on take off. He said they loaded 55 gal drums until they could not close the doors, then threw off the last one and took off. Most of the time they had a leaker. He and the Co-pilot put on their parachutes and found the leaker, opened the door and threw it out during the mission. All the while not creating a spark. He had over 90 missions. In the rear with the gear is not always easy, or safe. I stand in awe of him and his fellow ATC crew risking their lives supplying av gas to a flawed plan.
Great show as always. Chamorro are the indigenous people of all the Marianna Islands.
The first thing that came to my mind....Nimitz is doing some gamesmanship here, by appearing to be pro MacArthur, perhaps??? I also wondered if maybe King was in on it
else he might have tried to fillet Nimitz from stem to stern. Was this a ploy to get the JCS, the private war council under Marshall, to react in a certain way? Was this a wake up call, a bucket of cold water in the faces of men, forcing them to focus on what power would do for MacArthur politically??
On top of the absolutely monstrous, brutal atrocities the Japanese inflicted in WW2, the fact they lied to their own civilians and claimed the Americans would perpetuate the exact same crimes upon Japanese civilians that the Japanese actually committed against EVERYONE else is sickening 😥
It has been determined that a ground Fungus in the Pacific NW is now the single largest & possibly oldest living entity on the planet, I predict the world will end in a big ball of Mushroom Fluff
Seth stressed how the final stage of the battle, the civilian suicides, and the enormous banzai charge affected US thinking about the rest of the war. Specifically the casualty "exchange ratio" (number of US KIA vs. Japanese KIA) shifted significantly at Saipan - for the worst (from the US perspective). It continued to worsen with subsequent island battles. Altogether this played a meaningful role in the calculations of US leadership by the summer of 1945. Use of the atomic bomb was essentially a given as it actually happened - not an option on a menu of alternatives, as it's wrongly seen, out of context, today - but the casualty ratio concern that ramped up greatly with Saipan was at the center of all US planning in the last months of the war.
That episode is coming
Thank you.. I’m catching up and trying to go thru all episodes.. in order..
Thank you for your prospective on this horrible war.
One thing you fellows and this includes all prodcasters forget is as we watch your shows and you don't tell us the dates by month and year. We have to dig it out of the title "released 2 months ago" is all we can sourt out.
Larry Farr
Great new episode chaps. I'm a Brit and live in Germany's oldest city (Trier) - the one which Patton took and asked if he should give it back.
I'm reading John Toland's work on the Japanese Empire, and your podcasts are giving extra depth and information.
Keep up the excellent work.
Love your format
Gents, do you think that this was a bluff by Nimitz to ensure the invasion of Saipan?
I agree with you, Nimitz is a smart guy, Doug was a narcissi, how do you get a narcissi to like you, agree. Nimitz say "I'm with you Doug, but my boss won't let me do it, now let's get busy". Doug gets stroked, Nimitz move on with the plan.
@@dudestuff3352 There's no limit to what one can accomplish if they let someone else take the credit ~Mark Twain
wishing the good Captain a speedy recovery. This is the strategic objective - The marianas. - NOT BETIO.
This is a very fabulous episode.
The scale of "Forager" is enormous! And as you said, simultaneously prepared "Overlord" shows capacity of US industry. Wow.
I am looking forward to listening further episodes about Forager, as I read a lot of reports and war diaries about it (going to get to print a book about Battle of Philippine Sea soon in Poland).
You are doing a great job and I am really happy to hear your podcast. You have a great fan in Poland.
Best wishes of health to Mr. Toti, get well soon!
P. S. I was surprised about Nimitz agreeing with MacArthur topic. Is there any book I can read more about it? :)
That accident and the destruction of the ammunition ship MT.. HOOD,I am surprised any islands were taken due to lack of Supplies.Thanks guys for your weekly history class about the war in the pacific during WW2.
Wars are won by logistics to a large degree. Thanks, guys, for pointing that out again. Just superb and voluminous work on this intense conflict. Bravo! I doff my booney cap to thee.
Unfortunately, the precautions that resulted from the West Loch disaster and prevailed for many decades took a step backwards with the Bonhomme Richard fire in 2019. Navy negligence in the Bonhomme Richard fire resulted in the destruction of that carrier, a self inflicted disaster. Another bit of evidence of how far our military has deteriorated.
Thanks! WHY? Because we Like You.
Thank you!
Outstanding episode. I had no idea of the massive size of Op Forager. The USA was also fighting Torch and Overlord. Amazing resources and manpower contribution to fighting the global conflict.
Excellent show.
A detail of interest is that the Marianas, the Carolines, Palau, and northern New Guinea were part of the German Empire prior to WWI. Japan was allied to Britain early in 20th century, so when WWI broke out Japan joined the Allies and moved to take the German possessions in the Pactific, hence they were given League of Nations mandate
Great show gentlemen.
Thanks!
Also see where the "views" vs the number of subs run generally 5 to 7 times....very nice! Good yt numbers and growing bigger all the time...well done!
Cannot Waite to hear your podcast concerning the fighting on Pellelu . My uncle was assigned to a flame thrower which exploded on his back. He was left with burns over most of his body. He was discovered by the graves registration boys after the battle. Apparently he grunted when his body was thrown up on the truck. He spent about 2 years in the hospital but eventually recovered and went on to be an educator and administrator in the Baltimore Schools.
Sounds like MacArthur used "The Old Jedi Mind" trick on Nimitz. I would not have thought that possible. Another great job guys!
Great episode!!