"Fighting a Lost War: The German Army in 1943" by Dr. Robert Citino
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 15 май 2024
- 1943 marked the end for the German Army's advance in World War II. The German forces, known as the Wehrmacht, lost the initiative on all fronts, and found themselves on the defensive against the U.S, British, and Soviet forces slowly pushing their way into the German heartland. Pulling material from German primary sources and information collected in his book, The Wehrmacht Retreats: Fighting a Lost War, 1943, award winning author Dr. Robert M. Citino will discuss the reactions and decisions made after the tables turned against the German forces. The decisions made by the Fuhrer, Adolf Hitler, the German High Command, and the German Officer Corps helped to bring about the end of the Wehrmacht’s command of continental Europe. Despite the effects of the command’s disastrous decisions, the German Army maintained cohesion, morale, and aggression, prolonging the bloody conflict. Join us for an in-depth look at the decisions made by the Wehrmacht, which lead them to their eventual defeat.
Length: 63 Minutes
Lecture Date: May 21, 2014
It’s actually not permitted under RUclips rules to upload Citino lectures with good audio.
Or video.
This made me laugh!! So true
Lmfao
He needs his own audio man to travel with him, do enjoy your comment and his content tho
Indeed
I took a few classes with Dr. Citino when he was a professor at Eastern Michigan University. I was so enamored of his lectures I asked him to sign a waiver so I could take a graduate class of his even though I was still an undergrad. I worked my academic ass off in that class just to barely earn a "B" but I loved, and learned from, every minute of it. A few years later he wrote a recommendation letter for me to enter the PhD program at EMU. Thanks for everything you did for your students, Dr. Citino....
Congrats, that’s awesome!
Funny bc Michigan is just 10 miles away. He teaches history as a topic to learn from, not just something to get emotional and triggered from, though, so EMU it was.
I'm retired now so I have time to immerse myself in watching hours and hours of brilliant WW2 history like this. It's so good. The stories of WW2 are captivating, devastatingly destructive, sad and yet addictive.
WW2 is the greatest story ever told, with thousands of contributors. Mankind's biggest failure to date. Vanity, pride, arrogance and sheer dogged determination and refusal to surrender. RIP to all its victims.
Surrender was not an option even for the most decent of Wehrmacht soldiers in 1943, as the Western allies already had decided to sacrifice large parts of European population by giving millions of people into the hands of Stalin. Stalin was called "oncle Joe" by his supporters in contemporarian US governments and his crimes had been sugarcoated until 1947...
Yeah... that's why the wehrmacht couldn't surrender. Golly why were the soviet soldiers so willing to go exterminate Germans I wonder who started it hmmmmmmm. Germany was happy to hand poles over to Stalin in 1939 since when are we acting like the soldiers had any say in any of this what have you been inhaling.
@@BiggestCorvid do you have any knowledge on what happened under Soviet occupation in the Baltics, Finland, Ukraine, Ruthenia, Romanian, Bulgaria, Poland or Prussia? Do you even know where these countries are situated? Probably, refering to the stupidity of your answer, you have no clue at all. And no knowledge on any of the topics related.
Do you like Tom Petty?
True
Germans never reached their strategic objectives, they never got to the strategic resources that they so desperately needed. Their logistical situation was a total disaster.
@Andrew Ongais Giving up on Sealion was the only possible thing.
The Army wanted to land on a broad front to secure a lot of beach heads and have a chance at winning, the Navy wanted to land on a narrow strip because they didn't have the ships to defend or transport the required troops. Both were unfeasible. It was impossible.
Andrew Ongais The problem is that the allies were the ones who began to create new fronts. The Germans technically only created the eastern front while the western front was (in my opinion) fully created through DDay and the southern front (Italy) was fully created through Operation Husky.
It goes much deeper than lack of resources. Manufacturing capability, manpower, lack of motorized vehicles for supplies. They lost the war as soon as it started.
@Andrew Ongais oh definitely. But we could have given Germany all the magic tools it wanted and it still would have lost the war. It was a war of attrition and Germany just would have never won.
@Andrew Ongais it's not like they could even pull Sealion off and the summer of 1941 is the best time for Germany to invade the USSR.
"..calling the U.S. troops 'our Italians'" Damn Britain a burn of that magnitude might be considered a war crime
Michael Piperni corelli 12
Well....if we were the italians they were our welfare recipients...so which is worse?
copsondonuts you tosser made a mint out of us....where were you in 1939....making money, while my people were dying and keeping you free....
@@Jimits123 oooooh....and here i thought europeans didnt want us playing 'policeman'...
copsondonuts Roosevelt wanted to break up the British empire for trading reasons.....back stabbing crippled bastard....
"We didn't really lose that war, and we're gonna prove it this time by getting DESTROYED" is literally the best line ever delivered at USAHEC
bit like america and vietnam then
"Pfft, WWI wasn''t a defeat. You want to see a defeat? We'll show you a defeat!"
@@odoggow8157 Vietnam joined the 'WTO' in 2007'. Hearts & Minds dude.
@@odoggow8157 No, Vietnam is in the American sphere of influence today!!
the vietnam war was the worlds largest most terrible and bloody missed high five in history imo. if the americans could of looked past their ideology they would of found the perfect bulwark against the chinese, a much truer foe. Its truly tragic how much blood had to be spilled for the americans to realize this
Germany was screwed with lack of oil production. One of the reasons they invaded the Soviet Union. The US produced 70% of the worlds crude oil at the time.
Fuel consumption in thousands of tons.
1941
Wehrmacht - 4567 thousand tons. Red Army - 1718 (half a year).
1942
Wehrmacht - 4410 thousand tons. Red Army - 2765 thousand tons.
1943
Wehrmacht - 4762 thousand tons. Red Army - 3338 thousand tons.
1944
Wehrmacht - no data. Red army - 3919 thousand tons.
losing in north africa didnt help
true, that is also why the were forced to invade the soviet, admitted by hitler in the mannerheim recording.
the soviet was preparing to invade Romania, Germany oil supply.
they invaded the Soviet Union because the jew tell him so, and hitler her puppet in place do it.
the comedy in this is real. the sovjet union provided germany with oil until they were attacked. germany never got as much oil out of the occupied part as they got basicly for free before
1:40 Not always, in 1914 Moltke went to the Kaiser and reccomend he make peace in ww1 because the chance for a quick win was over and the only war left would be one of attrition, the Kaiser told moltke he could get back to the war or hand in his resignation and Moltke handed in his resignation rather than be party to what would become the second bloodiest war of all time.
5 years late to reply, but I feel the need to present some context to anyone still reading this. Moltke the Younger had been butting heads with the Kaiser since before the war started and was not a fan of being in the war in the first place, unlike many of his colleagues.
Even then he only told the Kaiser that the war is lost after suffering a complete mental breakdown, which is understandable since he was not only bungling a war but also literally dying with intense bladder and liver pain.
Moltke would be dead by 1916. His behaviour was more of an anomaly than anything else, driven mostly by very personal reasons. That makes it an event unsuited to draw larger conclusions about the ancient Prussian officer corps from.
This is a class I would get an A in and stay for HOURS!!! My lord why arent more professors like this.....
Dunno where you go to collage but in my experience a lot of professors (especially history professors) are like this when they get really into their subjects of expertise.
i will tell you why, most are not like this as they have self respect and some sort of integrity. now i know why all you americans are so fuking thick. your lecturers are dumb fukers teaching a load of bullshit. a full half of what he said is absolute bullshit
@@odoggow8157 ...but you think that we should take you seriously? Someone who can't spell "fuckers" and argues like a 13 year old?
This ain't a class. People in uniform in the audience.
@doug dimidome And you said, "Trump is Hitler." You are officially never to be taken seriously again. As long as you live. Forever, even.
"Over by Christmas." The original was "Home before the leaves fall" - Kaiser Wilhelm II.
Kaiser bill was a very good shill
While he may have said that, von Moltke told him early on thta was not going to be the case. When they failed to take Paris quickly.
Beg pardon, but there's at least two dispatches from the US Civil War citing 'over by Christmas' or 'over by the first frost'.
I suspect that over-estimating your chances in battle to your sovereign or civil leadership goes all the way back to Sargon of Akkad 5000 years ago.
"Over by Christmas" became the new catch phrase, but the old standard in once short European wars was that they only lasted until everybody had to return home to get the crops in. That's where the first leaves line points to, I think.
Carl Hicks Jr Yet another case of history repeating itself. •sknert•
Citino does such an great job at answering questions, really teasing out what people are asking and giving the right level of detail
One correction: "Steher" indeed means "Stander" but it doesn't mean that you're somebody who stays were told to. It's actually a normal colloquial expression in the German language. It basically means "tough guy" and originates in horse riding. A Steher is a horse that brings the best performance over a long distance.
You mean a "stayer".
@@thumbsdownbandit That's almost the same word indeed.
@@JJVernigno, it isn't. To translate Steher to stayer is completely wrong. They're false friends a linguist would say.
Great lecture, watched it 10 times by now. His passion, attitude and temper makes it even more entertaining than it should be! Thanks for uploading.
Germany lost the war on 19 -09-40 when Germany cancelled Operation Sealion.
@@brianbozo2447 LOL there was absolutely no shot at invading Britain, it was never even seriously discussed. He literally talks about this in his lecture... they started a war with great naval powers---without a strong enough navy of their own
@@brianbozo2447
Germany never had a chance of 'Winning' the war from the very beginning. This has been proven by many historians over the decades. Robert Cetino himself talks about this in this very lecture.
That's a great lecture, thank you Citino! Cheers from Brazil!
This guy is an incredibly compelling speaker - I was glued to this video despite its aggressive lack of visual interest.
Actually, the German phrase "A stone has fallen from my heart" is the the equivalent of "That's a load off my mind," and the insinuation isn't the best day of a person's life, but just relief that a sad or tragic situation has either turned out to be nothing or has been resolved. Given that a General said it, I'd guess it wasn't the happiest day of his life, but relief that a perceived wrong was finally being dealt with. Smug arrogance and "poor us" syndrome waiting for revenge.
Informative, paced well and entertaining asides.
Thank you, it was enjoyable
Great video, thanks for posting!
Brilliant lecturer. It’s a complicated situation, requiring deep understanding.
In February 1942 Reich Minister for Arms and Ammunition Fritz Todt told Hitler with tears in his eyes that the war was unarguably lost since both the USA and the USSR produced 5 or 6 times the amount of bombers as Germany. Shortly later Todt left the meeting and Albert Speer was meant to leave too but Hitler persuaded his architect friend to stay then Todt’s plane mysteriously blew up and Speer got the job and he must have realised at that time, just like Todt, that the best Germany could hope for was a truce since their industries couldn’t keep up and he was buying time for Hitler.
Interesting view Alex, but I do think you have watched a lot of Hollywood films. The reading I have done indicates that the majority of bombs were dropped by the RAF and not the Us, and certainly not the USSR. On D day most of the ships and aircraft were British, and the US force was slightly smaller that the combined British Empire force of U.K. and Canadian army. The point that many Americans miss though is the essential economic contribution the US made in Europe. That really was vital, and also supplied Russia , which was carried up to the USSR mostly by the British Merchant Navy which was so large that on any day there were about 2000 ships at sea. The Germans simply didn’t have the clout to sink enough of the, the Royal Navy was busy of course, since they sank the largest number of German U boats. Most people’s history is through the cinema. My advise is ignore most films, the6 are usually ver6 misleading. All the best.
@@davidgray3321Well his only mistake was highlighting bombers. But in terms of war material the USSR alone was out producing Germany in just about every category by late 42. The Brits were economically exhausted by '44 and were facing a real risk of economic collapse if the war didn't end in '45. The US was the master of the universe in '45 comprising 50% of global GDP.
Are you insinuating Hitler had him killed?
@@davidgray3321How many of the Brits merchant ships were built in the US?
@@duaneaikins4621 as the war progresses the Americans provided materials and equipment under lend lease this included fast built ships that did not have full weatherproofed steel finish, but to give you an idea re the numbers Britain had the largest navy in the world in 1940 , and on any day had up to 2000 merchant ships at sea. Britain also dropped most of the bombs that were dropped on Germany in the war, and on D day the British commonwealth army (that’s U.K. and Canadian) was slightly bigger than the American army. None of this in any respects reduces Americas vital contribution, don’t forget food to the U.K., and the fact that America had an essential role in supporting the Russians with thousands of trucks for instance. But the film industry is the enemy of facts in history I am afraid, and the films mislead the American public. Sometimes massively, eg suggesting that the first enigma machine was captured by the US in fact it was the Royal Navy who did so, see HMS Bulldog. Also American got lots of tech from the British, the Rolls Royce Merlin engine for example, and the Cavity Magnatron which means radar could be used in an aircraft or ship not merely in a stationary location, see the Tissard mission to MIT at the start of the war. Also the US navy used British anti submarine technology like “Hedgehog” all the best from the U.K.
Dr. Robert Citino is a great professor, he knows the great drama was in WW2 and the German Army.
Drama is the operative word. Hollywood drama.
I have watched this lecture all the way thorough three or four times, and I enjoy it every time.
Great articulate, knowledgeable speaker! Really enjoyed this. Watched twice. Thank you!
Excellent lecture, excellent presentation, excellent delivery
This was a very interesting lecture. Thanks for posting.
Great presentation. Really enjoyed it.
This is an excellent lecture...very interesting and insightful. It is a lot better than most. Good stuff...thanks!
This is such a good video. This guy’s excitement for the subject matter wears off on the listener.
The answers to the questions at the end were really insightful, especially with regard to the treaty of Versailles, well done sir, I thought there was nothing more for me to know on this subject!
mattsmiddy40 that is sarcasm ?
Could you summarise?
So I listened to all of this. ALL OF IT......I enjoyed 100% of this. I wish there were more like this. God I loved all of this...
You say that like it's some incredible thing to watch/listen to a 1 hour lecture without skipping. I agree though 😅
Wonderful Lecture. Thank you.
This was a very good lecture. Really enjoyed
I have Dr. Citino´s book. Highly recommended.
which book?
On the question of "turning point of December 1941":
Richard Sorge was a German journalist in Japan who also worked for Soviet military intelligence (codename "Ramsay"). In September 1941 Ramsay found out that Japan would not attack Soviet Siberia in the near future. Stalin trusted this information and took the risk of moving 16 divisions from Asia to the Moscow front.
In October 1941 the Japanese arrested Sorge for espionage. He was executed in 1944.
"Richard Sorge's brilliant espionage work saved Stalin and the Soviet Union from defeat in the fall of 1941, probably prevented a Nazi victory in World War II and thereby assured the dimensions of the world we live in today." - Larry Collins
"The spies in history who can say from their graves, the information I supplied to my masters, for better or worse, altered the history of our planet, can be counted on the fingers of one hand. Richard Sorge was in that group." - Frederick Forsyth
There is a book, “Operation Snow”, which sets out the argument that Harry Dexter White, by inducing the State Department to block oil shipments to Japan caused Japan to switch from a “northern strategy” directed at Siberia to a “southern strategy” directed at Southeast Asia and the Western Pacific Islands to preclude an more pressure on the Soviet Union. I have no idea of how true this is; I was under the impression that the Japanese high command was afraid of the Red Army after the Nomohan incident at Khalkin Gol. If that was true it wouldn’t have taken much for them to leave Siberia alone. I do know that Harry Dexter White was implicated as a Soviet Agent soon after the war and that he apparently died of a Digitalis overdose (a drug he was prescribed for his heart) in the midst of that investigation m.
I couldn’t agree more. Recently I retired as well. Watching sometimes brilliant lectures on the two world wars is what I do.
One of the better talks I've seen on either of the world wars. Robert Citino can certainly keep you entertained. It sounds like he is a great teacher.
17:59 - I met a doctor (retired) who was there. He titled his lecture: Practicing Medicine Under Pressure (or Surgery Under Pressure). Gruesome stuff.
The battle of Crete was really important for the fact that the Germans lost a lot of transport aircraft that was not available for the Russian invasion
and to move troops and supplies forward allowing the Russians to have time to setup new lines of defence.
The Battle of Britain was huge. In June 1941 the entire Luftwaffe had fewer operational combat aircraft than the force thrown against Britain in July 1940. The loss of fuel, loss of aircraft and loss of experienced pilots hurt them deeply. And Britain still being in the war meant Germany under blockade, not being able to ship in war materials from overseas.
@@iansneddon2956it wasn't the losses in August and September 1940. The losses were big in May and June as well. But most importantly the production rate of Aircraft was very low until end of 1942. According to British author Len Deighton, the British made way more fighter planes during the battle of Britain than Germany and German War production was inefficient until Speer took over in 1942
@@Dilley_G45 The losses to both the RAF and Luftwaffe from fighting in France had a huge effect (including air combat around the Dunkirk evacuation). Which is why RAF fighter command was down to 650 operational aircraft in the beginning of July 1940. But investments in aircraft manufacturing before the war along with early moves towards a war economy gave Britain an advantage. Speer later congratulated himself for carrying out one of the greatest deregulations of an economy in history - made possible because Germany had maintained their dysfunctional heavily regulated centrally-planned economy on into the war.
It wasn't just aircraft production. Britain had invested heavily in expanding pilot training programs. Part of a "reduced" RAF operational strength during the battle was a large number of experienced pilots who had been pulled back to serve as instructors training new pilots. In August the training programs were cut shorter - sending pilots into battle with less training. But Germany was doing the same. Overall, I think the British sent more inexperienced pilots into battle than the Luftwaffe did - but this was a matter of output as the RAF was deploying these pilots as part of an expanding air force while the Luftwaffe was bringing in the inexperienced pilots as replacements to partly offset a shrinking air force.
NO
Awesome lecture and very happy someone posted it for the world to see. I'd love to take a class or 2 with Dr. Citino.
Same dude!
One note Crete was attacked by German paratroopers and they did a lot of the hard fighting, but Germany also landed regularly army once one of the port was captured and then went on to take all of Crete
And what did they really gain by wasting resources on Crete?
I really enjoy his speaking style. Keeps you engaged the whole time! Good stuff!
I think that being a German soldier who was still in action
after the tide had truly turned and the Russian meat grinder was steadily getting closer and closer must have been one of the most frightening situations imaginable. No hope of either victory or escape and even less of mercy.
And all of it preventable.
@@highjumpstudios2384 Yes, yes. We could go right back to the assassination of Franz Ferdinand.
@@andrewrobertson3894 Nah, not even that. Just all the warcrimes.
Very helpful presentation! Enjoyable style.
Excellent commentary, very insightful 👍
Most profound statement: “ You can not win a World War without a Navy”
Thank you for the post!
A preponderance of nuclear tipped ICBM's will prove you wrong.
Absolutely !!!
@@BasementEngineer
The only useful purpose for “Nuclear-tipped ICBMs” is to intimidate your enemy from using his Nuclear-tipped ICBMs. The moment you or the enemy fires the first ICBM, you’ve both lost.
ICBMs don’t win wars, at best they only prevent them.
@@citizen240 I happen to agree with you, provided rational and intelligent people are in charge of governments; that is certainly not the case now.
Ask yourself this: If Germany had nuclear arms would the Nordstream pipeline been sabotaged>
Same premise but 1939: Would France, Britain, USA defacto, have declared war on Germany?
Would the Soviet Union prepared to invade western Europe?
Very insightful I believe for the most part. I've probably watched, read, or listened to hundreds of WW2 discussions & examinations that can be declared "in-depth" or for the more educated on the topic. Not the bullet points you'd get in any college class on the topic, but the ones that really go deep. And the more I've learned it's basically led me to draw this conclusion: There is no one, two, or even five reasons this war followed the course it ultimately did. There were a ton of myths, misconceptions, lies, legends, knee-jerk reactions, poor information, accidents, hopes, wishes, and gambles that formulated the mentalities of the men directing the course of this war. And that's not even getting into perhaps the biggest obstacle in any fight: the fog of war. There were so, so many factors and past experiences that had occurred over the years leading up the crucial moments of decisions in this struggle that had shaped the individuals who decided this epic saga that you can legitimately point to dozens of different reasons and still be correct. I guess what I'm saying is, there is no simple way to explain the course of this war. You can list 50 legitimate reasons Germany made the decisions they made and committed the actions they committed, 35 good reasons the Japanese & Italians were motivated & shaped by, and the same on down the line to every major player in this war. But the basic, inescapable certainty I arrive upon in nearly all of these examinations is that the reasons the mass destruction, casualties, and atrocities were committed by the guilty parties in question is that it was always in retaliation for an earlier offense. Everyone is retaliating for something that occurred at some point in time. I guess with a history as long, intricate, and intersected as the histories of Europe & Asia are, one can always find a reason to legitimize a heinous act.
Always retaliation for earlier offense? How about: Conflict and retaliation are a constant throughout history. Cultures compete with each other all the time. And may the best culture win! In our era, the winning culture has been liberal democracy. How could they know that would be the case? Maybe aggressive conquest and domination would rule the roost in the end. How could anyone know which would win in the end? As they say in football, "that is why they play the games". Liberal democracy won against authoritarian tyranny. This time. It ain't over! It is a battle that we will be fighting again and again as long as there are humans on the earth!
What exactly were the Nazis responding to when they killed Jews, homosexuals, the Roma, the disabled, and communists? Bad take, man.
Britton Thompson: I read in a history book that admitted oversimplification but nonetheless stated: "WWI was a war of old grudges and WWII was unfinished business."
So yeah, it does relate to past transgressions (at least for WWI and WWII).
However I will also add something an ex-Navy Seal once told me: "It's always about money (land=money). No country ever attacked another country just because they didn't like them."
This is what a miserable, Jew obsessed bore looks like.
ruclips.net/video/-6UgHmeiXyo/видео.html
Quite good introduction into the matter. I am german and very interested in this part of our history. Seems like we have read the same books almost. And there is still so much new insight coming up.
Great presentation - thanks.
Citino is one of the best on this subject.
Except for his remark about Crete and the German airborne invasion causing the British to lose sleep lol.
By the time the Germans were paratrooping into Crete, the Battle of Britain was long since over - having been won decisively by the British and effectively the destruction of the Western Europe Luftwaffe forces to the point that they never again posed any kind of serious threat to the Royal Airforce by way of men and machines.
The true test of the German airborne forces would have been the capture of Malta - a similarly small island surrounded by enemy territory and slowly being starved into submission while also being a bastion between Italy and Africa. If there was ever an airborne target of significance, Malta was it. And yet no.
I was had Dr. Citino at Eastern Michigan. He is still my favorite professor.
I'm jealous!
He seems like someone that would be great to talk to at office hours!
I think everyone needs to give the OKW and logistics officers some respect for getting Germany so far in the war. Germany taking Poland was impressive. Germany taking France was a miracle. Germany getting so far against to Soviets was damn near impossible.
If only they fought a more righteous cause against Communism in general
Continuing till 1945 efficiently without collapsing is the father of miracles
@@taterater1052based on modern history if they had fought communism and liberation of Ukraine it would have made a difference.
Note that 1/3 of Soviet army was Ukrainians
Great speaker good energy , better content! Much appreciated
An excellent talk, I am going to have to see if I can find his book.
Dr. Citino is a treasure.
I really like Dr. Citino's style of lecture and I like to hear his videos while I do other stuff throughout the day. I am definitly going to buy and read (repeatedly) his books on this subject.
Incredible presentation !
Really enjoyed this.
31:39
"I went in intending to argue with Hitler, but there was something hypnotic about that blue-eyed piercing stare, and I just went to pieces."
That's waifuism. German Army High Command had made Hitler their waifu.
I suspect you are missing something that Citino is not; there *was* something about Hitler. I just finished the memoirs of Herman Balck- the most brilliant operational mind of the Wehrmacht, who participated in some really hard fighting in both wars, and though he did not go to pieces, he does say that there was something about Hitler that hypnotised you, something magnetic. Balck still got his way in all instances but one, but he does write that Hitler was something special. His boss and friend Guderiand also usually got his way, and it was well-known that Hitler respected the front officers more than the General Staff officers, so that might have played a role.
It's very simple: star power based on a record of success. They didn't have Rock stars, so they weren't used to it.
'42/43 was also Midway/Guadalcanal, and Burma (monsoon stopped the invasion of India) in the Pacific, and there was Torch in conjunction w/ El Alamein and Stalingrad. High water marks everywhere.
Absolutely correct.Axis powers fortunes were dramatically reversed with those battles/campaigns. With increasing production the Allies and Soviets steamrolled their enemies.
Victor Olson Yeah Japan stood no chance at all against the US, even if midway never occurred the US could out produce them easily
😊actual it began with Japan deciding to pull out of Guadalcanal and the Allies crushing the AfricaCorp and ended with Italy out , Axis subs being victorious to being eliminated, and Bougainville being invested.
This was a fantastic lecture. World class.
Very entertaining. Thank you.
Insightful and thought provoking.
As an amateur historian who started studying War Two in his teens, I knew about all this information. But that last point Dr. Citino makes... the death of one's caste... is one that I had not considered. Given that the Army... not the Wehrmacht as a whole, but the Army - Der Deutsche Heer... was one of the great social institutions in Germany from its foundation as a nation in 1870, it should have come as no surprise to me. But it did.
What is this bizarro-world distinction you point to between the Wehrmacht and das deutsche Heer? Are you serious? Are you sentient? Do you somehow imagine that there were, like, reasonable, chill, liberal-democrat German army units that the Nazi regime did not utterly control?!
Here's a kindergarten thought experiment for you: how would history have been different if there were no Kingdom of Prussia? The revolutions of 1848? Either world war? Lenin getting sent in a sealed military train to steal the long-delayed revolution in Russia from the social-democratic Mensheviks...?
@@haeuptlingaberja4927 The social positions of officers in the Kaiserliches Heer, the Reichswehr, the Wehrmacht, and the Bundeswehr are very different creatures.
In the Kaiserliches Heer, they were often of the nobility, the gentry, the junkers, or talented middle classes. There is that classic insult 'He may be an hauptmann, but he has a carpenter's face' implying that the hauptmann in question was promoted above his station and ability.
The Reichswehr officer corps was a VERY exclusive club and anybody who didn't fit in was instantly made aware of it. It's like trying to teach at Oxford with only a vocational school degree.
The Nazis tried to 'socialize' the officer corps by opening positions to a wider range of social classes, but the political requirements to do so undermined their efforts. Inept men were promoted because of their Party record, not their skill at their chosen profession. This led to the Army being primarily controlled by a very Prussian style officer class.
And after about 1960, when the war officers started retiring, the Bundeswehr become something almost unrecognizable to a Fahnrich to got his commission in War One.
THAT is what I mean.
I have misgivings about recommending a movie, but James Mason's performance in the 'Blue Max' really got me thinking about what your commenting on.
@@mikhailiagacesa3406 Well, Maximillian Schell's performance in 'Cross of Iron' bears on the discussion too.
@@carlhicksjr8401 Another one of my favorites.
Often misquoted, it was not Nebuchadnezzar’s feast, it is Belshazzar's Feast in the Book of Daniel. Belshazzar, the Babylonian king, holds a great feast and drinks from the vessels that had been looted in the destruction of the First Temple. A hand appears and writes on the wall. The story is about how the Babylonian empire will be swallowed up by a much mightier empire, the Persians. After the feast, Belshazzar is miraculously killed, the kingdom falls, and the Jews regain their freedom.
Third time watching this and still I find it compelling viewing.
Great lecture Thanks!
I read books by Sven Hassel when I was a teenager. In them he says that at the end of the war, the mantra was, "Enjoy the war while it lasts because the peace is going to be hell".
One of the best WW2 writer. Enjoyed his books. Later on heard that he actually was imprisoned and didn't actually personally participate in his stories, but rather just wrote about stories he heard while incarcerated from other prisoners.
@@TheKres7787 Most writers have to stretch the truth. If they didn't then books would be just as dull as real life. I thinkk that they worked out that Papillon was a compilation of different stories all compiled together as one mans life...... What a great book.
@@digdougedy Yes but problem was, if I recall right, that he stated those are all personal experiences. All that aside though, great books for sure
Citino needs more of a web presence. He's a great lecturer from what I've seen. Anyone know if there's more of his presentations online?
Late, but there is one for each of his books on WW2
He had tons of lectures online. Tons of books.
As to web presence, I think he sees himself as an academic whose works are paid for by book sales, lectures, and professorship. He has a post. I'm glad he's not obsessed with himself.
Google your query maybe?? Just saying.
Excellent breakdown
Just so you know sir, watched it at least twice in succession.
Ever finish to a demand for encore?
Thank you
Great video and lecture - thank you Dr. Citino. He's absolutely right about his recommendation on Rick Atkinson's 'Day of Battle' - it is the definitive book of the American/British (and Polish) campaign in Italy. I remembered it had what might be the most understated quote I ever heard in my life by an American infantry officer at either Anzio or Cassino writing to family back home 'Battles are fun to read about in books, but not nearly as much fun to actually fight in.' - Indeed...
Citino pierces straight through the vast mythology surrounding Germany and the Wehrmacht and gets to the human stuff of the problem. He also does it quite engagingly.
He's a gatekeeper.
Citing is the best period. He puts you in mind of the soldiers!
Brilliant orator and researcher, very rare talent!
An interesting and thought-provoking lecture. However, I can't help but mention that at 0:22:00 he misquotes Tennyson, as is often done, by saying "do or die"-since the poem itself says "do and die."
This Lecturer has been voted the “ best in the world” more than a few times. Hard to argue with that.
Not exactly what I expected from the title, but very interesting none the less!
Great impartial lecture
lol
I loved reading the book by Dr. Citino. it is well written and cogent. Dr. Citino is a outstanding author of World War 2 history. I read his background and academic career one of which was at the University of North Texas in Denton, Texas. This is also my school where I earned my BBA degree.
He wasn't there Patton was.
Finally someone with the Guts to say it thankyou Sir i really think you hit the nail on the head with your opinion of the officer class in Germany their Doomed sense of Opera genuinely appealed to them so it didn't need to be Hitler it could have been anyonelike you say excellently argued you have made a very valid point and its been most interesting listening to you
Excellent presentation. The enemy always gets his say.
Citino and Zaloga. Good lecturers.
Excellent presentation! Could not agree more about the vagaries regarding the turning point. I would like to suggest what I consider to be one (if not THE one) - the moment the German Army took a vow of allegiance to Hitler.
Only one point I don't agree with.
Germany and the SU, were not allies in the classical sense with common goals and armies fighting on one side.
They merely signed a non-aggression pact, with accompanying economic and territorial deals.
That doesn't make them "allies". The SU was therefore non-belligerent (as a result of this NA pact).
The "new good relations" as shown in the Nazi newsreels at the time (and which still influence opinions today) was propaganda. Ideologically and politically, the two sides remained enemies.
Non-belligerent?
You are so wrong. The SU delivered oil, wheat and other materials germany needed until the moment Operation Barbarossa started.
And Poland wasn't mopped up by Germany alone, Stalin only waited some time so he wasn't seen as a direct "Ally" of Germany, since he knew that this would be simply dumb.
Also, a non-belligerent doesn't attack Finland in the winter of 1940...
Ralph Bernhard Exactly correct Ralph: I just read the other guy missing the point entirely and simply regurgitating truisms about Nazi / Soviet trade deals.
Krauty McLederhosen Pfff, "technically speaking" maybe... but not practically...
Sorry they only sided with Germany to crush Poland, the only reason the Allies didn't honored their pact with Poland then was because Churchill wanted to be up Stalins ass, so he wouldn't lose.
Technically speaking, France and the UK would've had to declare war on the Sovjets too, but then again "technically speaking" is simply not always what really was the case...
You just belive whatever you want to, I really don't have the time bickering about semantics, so have fun doing it, really, why care so much anyway?
Thats over 70 years ago, and even though it should not all be forgotten, the Facts don't cahnge no matter what we say and argue...
***** "Of course after the war the secret provisions of the Russo-German Non-aggression Pact were discovered."
Actually the secret provisions of the Russo-German Non-aggression Pact were "re-discovered. since it was already revealed to the USA by the German traitor Hans von Herwarth on the 24th August 1939,an entire week before the German invasion of Poland.
Despite the grave implications, the USA did not inform Poland.
It was therefore not the "big secret" our "history books" want to lead us to believe.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_von_Herwarth
***** My interpretation is slightly different.
Most likely, Roosevelt didn't know, because the information got "lost in the channels" (most likely).
Bear in mind that Herwarth did not deliver his information personally.
This kind of balls up is typical in the world of diplomacy, even today.
My interpretation is that those in Washington who received it, doubted the source or legitimacy of the information ( a valid doubt, considering the intense animosity between the two ideologies), and feared political fall out in case it had been a carefully laid out Nazi trap.
I'm not so sure if anybody "wanted" war, but by 1939 it seems likely that there were certainly many western leaders who considered war as an event worth "risking"
(considering previous events in Europe, that would be an acceptable standpoint).
In other words, one could say that western leaders were "willing to risk war" by 1939, and that peace at any cost was no longer an option.
You are correct though.
The Poles should have been informed, along with an assessment that the information delivered by von Herwarth might be a political conspiracy (a lie made up, designed to threaten/coerce the Polish government to make concessions in the ongoing talks over the corridor and Danzig).
It should then have been left to the Polish government (and their excellent secret service) how best to proceed.
Love his analysis. The nature of the regime and the dictates of avoiding separate peace amongst allies required unconditional surrender as a policy.
Thoroughly enjoyed that
good video, very good
Don’t you love when people in the comments talk like they know more than everyone else. Somehow they know more than the historian in the video that’s studied this subject his whole life
Its not an impressive lecture. He spends a lot of time incredulous that German generals kept fighting in 1943 - what else were they supposed to do? The war looked to be lost for Britain in 1940, but its generals didn't give up. They kept fighting, so why wouldn't the German generals? The USA also knew some dark days, as did the Soviet Union, but they all kept fighting.
Was this lecture given during War College or Army Command and Staff school at Leavenworth?
Fascinating talk..
41:41 he asked a very good question. iv'e had read the book "the end" by ian kershaw and it was very luminary
toward the question why the third reich was still in great power and why the wermacht fought so vehemently when the collapse was inevitable
loving his off the cuff responses to questions. his answers about Frederick the great having army commanders from the same Prussian families, just so across this. love how dismisses the plasticity of the german officers oaths...
Great video 😄
this award is well deserved !
Thank you Doctor for pointing out that it was the Polish intelligence that broke the Enigma and passed on all the knowledge to the British in August 1939. It is not a very well known fact that Alan Turing just continued on from what the Poles did, as Enigma became more and more advanced. But the breakthrough happened in Poznan, Poland and a few years before the start of the war, to add.
What is also not generally known is that some of the polish enigma experts were interrogated brutally by the Germans following the occupation of Poland…and they never revealed the work they were doing and thus ensured that the enigma system remained in place and exploitable by the British….True unknown heroes…
"It is not a very well known fact that Alan Turing just continued on from what the Poles did"
"just" is doing a lot of amusing work here. The reality was that the Poles broke Enigma 1.0, but the Germans then produced 2.0, 3.0, 4.0 and so on throughout the war, and many of the problems presented by each Enigma enhancement were not any easier to solve than the original break.
It's a bit like saying Newton "just" built on Copernicus, and Einstein "just" built on Newton.
The original Polish break was an excellent bit of mathematics, which itself built on the proceeds of French intelligence giving the Poles the fruits of what a German traitor had given then. It was a continual process, with the good guys managing to stay one step ahead of the bad guys, and the bad guys' upgrades. Yes, the Poles and their achievements tend to get written out of the story, and they certainly deserve a mention. But there's no "just" about Bletchley Park's achievements (and, no, it wasn't 'just" Turing either.)
Moreover, because it's the fun bit, the cryptanalytical triumph is always emphasised, to the detriment of the industrial production process side. Bletchley Park was useful because it was an intelligence production line, built up not merely to break ciphers, but to process decryption, intelligence analysis and distribution of intelligence on a large scale.
The Germans mechanised encryption and deployed in on a large scale for the first time. Bletchley Park mechanised cryptanalysis and deployed the exploitation of intelligence on a large scale for the first time.
@@leemoore5212 Hmmm, I wonder why it took so many people at Bletchley Park to break the code. I mean, once the algorithm has been developed to break the code one would think that any pencil necked bureaucrat could do it?
@@leemoore5212thanks for posting
@@SaveTheKidsD2Pwhy’s that,Is it because you don’t like facts.
Why arent there more lectures like this?
Fighting Until Destruction - great name for a book
Good stuff!
"Our Italians"
Laughing out loud over here
Yes, but the British were "our Italians" in the Far East.
@@degrelleholt6314 are you fucking serious?
Does the 14th Army ring any bells, dickhead?
If not fuck off.
Dan D
The Brits use to say of American Troops when they started arriving in England:
"American Soldiers are "Over sexed, Over paid, and Over HERE!"
I can't imagine the British saying that. They have constantly incompetent leadership.
@@johnadams5489
The Yanks, however, forgot to add "over sure" of themselves, until they met the German Army and begged the Red Army to begin the Eastern offensive after they stopped in Poland. The allies found out that that was easier to bomb Germany from the air than face them on the ground and therefore waited until the Red Army destroyed 85% of German equipment and man power in early 1945.
But it took Hollywood for the Yanks to say they "won" the war. The Red Army, however, had the real story, real battle-field films!
You want an immediate reckless rush at the enemy? I'm your man.
True, and in those circumstances it was the right decision. An allied amphibious invasion of Sicily was going to be stopped in the first couple of days or not at all. The same applied to Italy. The Germans were right to madly attack the beachheads. When that failed, they resorted to a long grinding delaying defence up the spine of Italy, and did it very well.
I am a WW 2 buff this Gentleman is so knowledgeable I would take his class in a minute. Much respect for his opinions.....
Everybody who needs to point out that hes a "history buff" doesn't know that much in my experience. Especially tru with my American bois xddd
I would say that the turning point of WW2 was November 9th 1942 at 9:12 AM.
I've given this question much thought these past few minutes and I can do no more without an atomic clock.