We have a corrugated roof in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. Heavy snow and ice loads. It's 20 years old and in great shape. The screws are all holding up well.
@@saleindia9884 hey Sale India, I'm in Michigan. I have done exposed fastener roofs for many years now and have never had a complaint. This video is just a sales pitch for what this guy knows. He called it a neoprene washer. It is not a neoprene washer. It is an EPDM washer. EPDM is the same material for commercial roofs and last 30 plus years. Previous to doing metal roofs I did commercial roofs. This guy already at 1:33 in doesnt know what he is talking about or is just trying to make more money by up-selling standing seam.
I'm a metal roofer in VT and I concur with your assessment of both types of roofing material. Standing seam out performs every other residential roofing product that I've installed for the last 22years.
Installed my 1st snap lock 1 " standing seam roof this past year. Shed roof 28 ft from ridge to drip edge & 52 ft wide. Had to build a ramp up to roof to keep such long pieces from kinking while transferring from ground to roof. Points I would share: 1 - got a quote from a roofing Co. Quote was 24,000.00. I bought all needed supplies including stove pipe penetration kit & 2" vent penetration kit plus all needed screws, trim, caulking etc for $8000.00 & installed completely in 80 hrs alone - another 4,400.00 for my time. I used a paint on vapor barrier on the roof ply. Thats half the quoted price. I was pleased with the simplicity of the installation but it WAS the simplest of roofs. The waterproofing edge details were logical & easy to bend/install/caulk in foam inserts. I would definitely use again but maybe not on more complicated roofs with a lot of penetrations.
This is funny. In 1971, a school was throwing away sheet metal as they were tearing down the school. My Father brought it all home, and my mother jumped all over him for doing this. He took it all in stride, and let her yapp away. We had an old barn he kept his tractors in, so, he took that sheet metal, put it on the roof of that old barn and that sheet metal was covered with tar yiu can buy at a hardware store as he painted that over the sheet metal. That roof, lasted a long, long time into the future. My Father was way ahead of his time in thinking before this metal roof paten was even currently thought of. My Father was a genius in a lot of things he did.
Another great thing about seam style is if you plan on mounting solar panels, the mounts simply clamp on the seam instead of putting additional holes in the roof.
neighbor just had solar panels taken off of his metal roof and it was standing seam . It cost to much he said to have the solarpanels cleaned and repaired . squirrels and bird damage to wires , bird poop and pollen and dust on the panels need to be cleaned off at a cost of almost 500 dollars 2 times a year . now he is dealing with the roof damage to his metal roof . He wished he had gone with ground mounted solar panels now . But then we have deer and foxes and bears and would still have birds and squirrels and possums and raccoons . The panels were mounted to his huge tall utilty building that houses his RV and workshop
@@sissymurphy9620 that’s crazy, I live in a woods & mine are just laying flat on my flat roof & I barely have any issues like that. Ground mount sounds great except most of use don’t have the space or there is to much shade.
@@jtr82369 He has had them up 4 years and when I talked to him ,he said he has had wires replaced 12 times and 4 solar panles replaced . Pollen gets so heavy here from trees that my white car looks like it is green , wash it 2 hours later same thing . .We have lots of pine trees and he said sap and bird poop are destructive . Panels have to be cleaned or he looses some of his power . We get lots of huge buzzards here and when they poop they poop and will even eat paint off things . Trukeys are worse but at least they can't fly up and land on your solar panels . Which he has pics of a bunch of buzzards up on his solar panels
The best place for solar panels is a ground mount. If you don’t have room, then find another suitable place to live where you can install one in the yard.
@@USA-GreedyMenOfNoIntegrity there is no issue with using what would otherwise be wasted space on a roof, plus this style of metal roof is the best type for solar. The vast majority of people don’t have yard space and if they do, there is shade issues that are out of your control.
I Was Taught By a Very Experienced Professional Contractor That on Corrugated You Put The Screws on The Ridges Not The Flats. He and I Did My Roof and Still Looks Good After 14 Years
@@colinsmith7884 I've always thought of the screws on the flats as being one of the inherent weaknesses of the corrugated roof becuase the washer takes constant abuse anytime it rains. That being said, that's the only place they're supposed to go. The ridges do not have sufficeint backing to put the screws there. We thought of "shimming behind the ridge because (obviously) the ridge would be the best place to put the screws for less water intrusion. Without a backer, the screws MUST go into the flats. Flats...Period...end of discussion.
@peace prayer I was taught to put screws in the flat. Not arguing with you over that. Some people rather put them on the the ridges. They seem to split into a crack. Don't understand the hate man
Here in the states, the old style 5v crimp was fastened on top of the "v", but generally that was with the old style lead head nails and later grommeted nails. But with the advent of the screws with neoprene washers, it became acceptable and standard to screw in the flats. This is acceptable only if the screws are properly installed to the correct tension because of two factors. #1, the threads of the screws tend to pull the metal up the shaft when driven, which creates a type of dam under the washer. #2, the screws are only driven until the neoprene part of the washer "begins" to crush. The washers are sloped from the screw head, if the screw is tightened until the washer is flat and parallel with the roof surface, that in my opinion is to tight. By leaving the washer with it's factory taper and the neoprene just compressing, that leaves the ridge from the threads raised and the neoprene in good contact with the tapered screw shank and roof metal. Also, it leaves the roof metal some room for the expansion and contraction he warned about. I have installed several of these roofs, "MasterRib", "GrandRib, and 5V-Crimp and have never had any problems with the ones I've installed. And they're plenty more in my area that I've heard no complaints over as far as screws loosening or leaking.
Everyone does that, and act like I am crazy when I tell them how stupid it is. Don't put holes where the water goes... Also around here they face screw the standing seem valleys. What is the point of a standing seem roof with exposed fasteners...
@@talon426 Yea, all the standing seam systems that are available for the "erect it yourself" metal building crowd have exposed screws across the bottom and the top. They only use the clips through the middle portion. You pay more, work at least twice as hard, and the panels still have holes in the top and the bottom. I understand that the one they are installing does not but I'm sure I also don't want to pay their price... hence the hard sell.
We're installing a standing seam roof on a construction project I've got here in the U.K - didn't have a clue what this type of roof was until this video - very informative, thank you!
@@JulianParry1 just saw your comment, I've been installing zinc copper aluminium and stainless standing seam roofing in the UK for the last 48 yrs if you'd like to get in touch,
In the UK we have just had Storm Eunice and the record-breaking 120mph gust on the Isle of White. The rooves that blew off were all Standing Seem types. Once the wind gets under an edge it rips off the whole roof - because the first panel to lift becomes a sail as the seam from one panel to the next panels holds in the wind and the drag from the loose panel is transferred to the next panel and just like a zipper , the whole roof peels off. In the Corrugated system, if the wind gets under a panel it gets pulled off - but it does not take other panels with it. Perhaps the edge detail needs to be improved to stop the first failure in standing seems.
Perhaps it's in the installation? Our house and many of our neighbors in the Virgin Islands have shown standing seam to be the roofing of choice. Having been through back to back Category 5 hurricanes (sustained winds over 156mph) in 2017, they were the roofs that survived the best.
I'm glad you brought that up, the video I just watched was a salesman telling us how one sucked & standing seem was the best, he left out parts like you just brought up.
I can see that happening. I asked about the spacing of screws around perimeter & in the field & not 1 tech support employee nor sales person gave a worst case scenario screw pattern for storm all of them suggested about 3 x the spacing I ended up doing.
Oddly enough up here where known for tornadoes and high winds but from what Ive seen on barns and some houses under sever winds and tornados I have seen standing seam missing panels or sections from bad storms but I have not seen a metal roof panel held down by screws come off unless the actual roof came off with it
In Florida, never had screws back out. One exception was a 60 year old home some screws backed out slightly but never had a leak. Replaced the screws no big deal. Also, expansion is minimal. 90% of the roofs here have corrugated metal with screws and some of the homes are very old.
I’m guessing expansion would be more of an issue in temperate climats like here in Canada where temps can be as high as 40C in summer to -40c in winter.
I imagine Florida has less temperature swing than a lot of the country. Expansion and contraction is going to be less if it’s hot all year compared to places where it gets hot in the summer and cold in the winter.
very good presentation as a union carpenter I saw plenty of corragrated metal and standing seam all installed by union roofers, but we installed siding of corragrated metal and always thought those washers were the weak link in this product
Take what he says with a grain of salt. The thickness of the metal is based on what they order for roll stock, same can be used for both, same with coatings. Length of panels can be made the same length on site in both types if they come with the equipment rather than a premade product. Interlocking seams on the top/bottom can be bent into both products IF the person applying it does it (generally not done though). The ridges with standing seams are easily damaged with sliding ice in valleys in Northern climates, similar to corrugated but the standing seam is much more prone to damage as it's straight up seams, where the ice can skate across the bumps in the corrugated not always damaging it. I don't sell/install either product but the only item in his list that really stands out is the washers in all those exposed screws, that's the biggest weakness in the product he is trying to put down.
I have in the past, worked commercial construction as a Superintendant, then Estimator and Project Manager. The last 20 years as an Owners Rep and as such a specifier. Most of my ground up experience has been Pre-engineered Metal Buildings along the Gulf Coast. If I misunderstood your comment let me apologize now. This is an opportunity for me to learn. We don’t have icing / snow conditions down here. Thank God! We do have Hurricanes and my experience has been, a roof fails for a few reasons. Often fasteners or the lack/failure there-of, at trim and also at the sheet edge where the constant high wind, often excess of 100 mph for hours, will get beneath a metal edge and cause it to oscillate until the metal tears allowing the head to pull thru or the sheet tears, creating a sail. That’s why I personally like standing seam, with its concealed fastener and hemmed edge detail. Oil canning and costs are the negative. Back to my question. How do you hem an end of a piece of R-panel ( corrugated ) roofing? Thanks
I dip my screws in melted butyl rubber, it never dries up and cracks and keeps the washer from deteriorating. A small step that assures leaks don't happen. Butyl rubber is the best to seal metal roofing as it remains viscous even in extremely low temps.
@@termgrecos3451 Buy a roll of butyl and put it in a coffee can on a heater. Butyl is actually fluid, just of an enormously high viscosity. It melts to a toothpaste like consistency at around 160 degrees and even while it's cooling it still adheres to the threads. Matter of fact, it sticks to EVERYTHING, lol so use cheap leather gloves. But a little butane torch works great to lay it down in ropes and seal gaps. Way better than silicone caulking. That stuff rubs off, butyl takes thinner or gasoline to remove it. Once it's on, it's on!
@Anon ymouse I am not the producer of this vid but i can tell you some things. Standing seam vs. Exposed fasteners. 1)I have not done many standing seam roofs. However, they definitely are not fastened to the roof as well as exposed fastener roofs. Exposed fastener roofs are screws down every 6 inches or so horizontally and every two ft vertically. Standing seam is not...and have way less fasteners. 2) exposed fastener roofs do not have a neoprene washer as this guy stated. The washers are made out of EPDM which is a rubber that lasts 30 plus years and is used on full 100x10 ft rolls (weighing in around 450lbs) of EPDM on commercial roofs( big buildings). Exposed fastener metal roofs are durable and also increase the value of the home. 3) exposed fastener roofs are way faster to install. Which costs less in labor. 4) in my opinion standing seam is boring looking. Think of the jeeps that have exposed bolts and nuts and stuff...they look cool as shit. Standing seam looks way less cool. 5) if a tree branch falls on standing seam you have to take the roof off from one side and potentially to the other to replace a panel. That is not the case with exposed fastener roofs. So think about the labor costs on that one. 6)exposed fastener roofs are easier and faster to install. They are easier to repair. They are warranted for about the same amount of time. 7) if you have a house and getting a roof any of the metal roofs add value to the home. They might just last 50 years. Warranted for 35 for exposed fastener. Think about that. Talk to more roofers. The make your decision. Exposed fastener is cheaper and lasts just about as long. (There is some preventive maintenance that isnt necessary until you get leak but just to prevent a leak, which would only happen at a screw, is to have the screws replaced before the warranty is up.) That's my take. I've done a lot of roofing. Take this information or discard it. Hope that helps. Oh, and metal roofs will fade over time, but will still way outlast shingles for sure. Edit: @7:16 he shows a ridge cap that appears to have a gap that wind blown rain can get into. Again, this is his sales pitch. That gap you see is caused by a waterproof seal that expands under the metal. That is not, I repeat, that is not a leak. @7:30 he says standing seam has no seam. If that is the case then why is it called standing "seam"? It absolutely has a seam. That is like saying bacon isn't bacon, or that we are comparing peaches to pairs hear and peaches don't have an acidic citrus value while pairs do. Think about that.
Thank you for explaining the difference! I have a 50 year old standing seam roof that I need to replace. The roof still doesn't leak. The only reason I'm replacing it is because the edges are coming up and are bent.
All too often, contractors drive aluminum fasteners into steel, which sets up for electrolytical corrosion, a problem which plagued the aircraft industry, in the early, to mid 20th century. In roofing, this leads to widening holes, and tears, around fasteners, in addition to the thermal expansion, and contraction related tearing of panels, and popping out of fasteners. Thanks for sharing this.
@@mikebeasley553 They're out there. I made the mistake of buying a box of screws, and got them, because they were cheaper. They were aluminum. Nearly every head broke off, about 3/4 the way through.
@@everythingmatters6308 Nope. When differing metals are in contact with each other it's electrolytic corrosion. Galvanic corrosion is the result of oxidation from prolonged exposure to the air. Trust me, I got that directly from a metallurgist, who corrected me on that, as I got it backwards on a test. LOL
I've had experience with corrugated roofs in N. Idaho; they were older than 9-12 years however. Number 8 screws had backed out on one roof and many screws were missing. This roof would have been toast in the next windstorm. Original installer held his screw gun out of square to the surface. Replaced all screws with #14s, which saved the roof. However there was rot in the sheathing from leaks around screws. Roof boards were never replaced, unfortunately.
@@Pittsburghbad If you want to make the roof last a long time, you could roll elastomeric roof coating over the metal, screws, the entire roof. It is a thick acrylic that rolls on; it will seal everything and prevent the screws from backing out. If you can find a supplier who can mix custom colors, or even has it in premixed colors, one that you might like you can make the roof a suitable color for your taste. You will want to apply two coats of premium acrylic over an adhesive base coat and re-apply about every five years. Your roof will last forever! Make sure the screws are down tight, not too tight, before proceeding. Home depot has a version of this product, but in white only; sounds like you're in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania? In a city that size you should have no problem finding the product; it is water cleanup and not toxic at all. Don't fall off the roof!
I'm in agreement. Several advertisers think back ground noise is going to get the public's attention but when they're filling the role of teaching seems they would want undistracted attention to gain a potential customers choice to purchase their products. Echo in the shop is loud enough. Music in the background further distracts undivided attention.
Straight to the point on 5 different categories.... I’ve looked thru many of video’s. Best way to let viewers know how to properly handle situations on metal roof panels and so on. Great video 🤙🏼🤙🏼
There is an old farm house just down the road from my home. It was built in 1932. It has an old tin roof that has been painted so many times that people lost count. I inspected the house and the attic. How that roof has lasted over 70 years without major work is beyond explanation.
My dad has a big quonset style barn made from corrugated steel. It uses the screws with the neoprene washers. We moved there in 1977 when the barn was who knows how old. It is still going strong, though there may be a few leaks around a handful of those screws. The thing has to be at least 55-60 years old.
I had a roof with screws for thirty years with no screw leaks. I have a cabin with a screwed roof with no problem after 21 years. Our new home has standing seam metal and the some panels are 34’ long.
@@larrynorsworthy8582 There are screws at the seams that are hidden by the overlapping panel. If these weren’t there the roof metal would lift in high winds.
Pre drill all holes on the corrigated pannel !! Saves rubber washer from tearing. Use white only = less expantion. For underlayment use 1/2 lap 15# felt and then install 1/4" fan fold foam board.. It will last a long long time.
There are metal roof products on the market that use hidden fastener systems and last a long time. I have installed both types in NH and have never had a problem. As long as you hem to the drip edge and use ice and water shield these roofs will last a long time. Attention to detail is the most important thing and you have to think like rainwater and snow so you will have no leakage.
Thirty two years ago I worked for a year in a sheet metal shop owned by Al a 70 year old man who grew up working in his family's sheet metal shop. I didn't do much installation but I did bend up a lot of single and double lock standing seam pans by hand useing an 10 foot break, in galvanized, copper, one lead coated copper job and hundreds and hundreds of attachment clips. I doubt I'll ever have a copper standing seam roof on my own house but I will have a coated steel standing seam roof one day. Al sold me on standing seam when I was 18 for many of the same reasons laied out in this video being, no attachment penetrations and the ability to expand and contract. Ps. When I asked Al how long a lead coated copper roof would last he said "the building will probably fall down before the roof ever fails". It was a new concrete block building and this was its first roof.
The Morton Buildings screw fastened metal paneling are thicker gauge one of the first to use kynar . Morton also does a very good job of making clean and sleek trims and Flashings. Really on any metal roof system you have to have good installers, it won't do any good to have a good product then have someone do a hack job, I see that alot.
Definitely a bias towards the standing seam. I get it, but at twice the cost for materials, it's not in everyones budget. I'm putting Fabral corrugated metal on my timber frame pavilion and with the little hint about the working life of the screw washers, will leave my self a reminder to replace them in about seven years, with a slightly larger diameter or longer screw if need be.
Don't buy the hard sell. If properly installed, the grommeted screws hold up well (if installed to manufacture specifications). Granted, you might not get the 100 years of the old school standing seam, but the neoprene washers will hold up as good as a high end shingle (20-30 years, again, if installed to spec).
@@davidhorsley1149 Thank you Sir, appreciate it. Injured my leg the day before installation, was able to drill panels on horses to spec, then had the wife and son hang them and screw them down, showed her how not to overly depress the washers, will double check them when leg is healed.
Be cheaper to look into a spray sealant instead of replacing the screws. Gives your house a new color if you choose to and seals the damaged rubber washer's
@david Horsley it was just a suggestion. Many old metal buildings up north are turn to this. Like I said just a suggestion. Not everyone uses the clutch on the their drill and squeeze the washer
When I use corrugated steel roofing I always pre-drill the hole for the screws on the ridge, not the valleys. And to not have to worry about expansion and contraction warping the metal - just slightly oversize the hole. e.g. if the screws require a 4mm hole - then drill it to 4.5mm. Have never had any of the problems listed in this video and live in a fairly extreme climate.
One contractor told me that drilling holes heat up the area around the hole and caused the paint to eventually peel and the metal to rust but he drilled through a whole stack of metal ,are you drilling individual sheets?
@@davidborntreger3950 It depends on the job but generally if everything is square 5 sheets are drilled through at the same time. Otherwise we drill through single sheets. It's true that there would be a tiny amount of metal that lost its coating and be exposed but where we are gets an average of 600mm (24") rainfall a year. So rust is not a problem. But if there are any situations where it's likely that bare iron can come into contact with water for any length of time - it gets a spray of fish oil. That stuff sticks on for ages and you'll never have a problem.
I agree with the pre drill hole process and we put a dab of silicon in the hole prior to screwing.You can also add a bit of silicon over the screw heads lt will be a bit shiny but it sure helps eliminate washer issues
@@stevenbittinger5128 I've given up on silicone. There are a lot of documented reasons for that choice. I now use Quad or Lexel clear elastic sealant. And can't think of a single case where silicone is better.
I did metal roofs for 10 years and all the customers we're curious about the standing seam Roofing until they priced it. They all decided the screws weren't that big a deal. And yes there's a lot of BS going on this video.
@@samwoj I am not the producer of this vid but i can tell you some things. Standing seam vs. Exposed fasteners. 1)I have not done many standing seam roofs. However, they definitely are not fastened to the roof as well as exposed fastener roofs. Exposed fastener roofs are screws down every 6 inches or so horizontally and every two ft vertically. Standing seam is not...and have way less fasteners. 2) exposed fastener roofs do not have a neoprene washer as this guy stated. The washers are made out of EPDM which is a rubber that lasts 30 plus years and is used on full 100x10 ft rolls (weighing in around 450lbs) of EPDM on commercial roofs( big buildings). Exposed fastener metal roofs are durable and also increase the value of the home. 3) exposed fastener roofs are way faster to install. Which costs less in labor. 4) in my opinion standing seam is boring looking. Think of the jeeps that have exposed bolts and nuts and stuff...they look cool as shit. Standing seam looks way less cool. 5) if a tree branch falls on standing seam you have to take the roof off from one side and potentially to the other to replace a panel. That is not the case with exposed fastener roofs. So think about the labor costs on that one. 6)exposed fastener roofs are easier and faster to install. They are easier to repair. They are warranted for about the same amount of time. 7) if you have a house and getting a roof any of the metal roofs add value to the home. They might just last 50 years. Warranted for 35 for exposed fastener. Think about that. Talk to more roofers. The make your decision. Exposed fastener is cheaper and lasts just about as long. (There is some preventive maintenance that isnt necessary until you get leak but just to prevent a leak, which would only happen at a screw, is to have the screws replaced before the warranty is up.) That's my take. I've done a lot of roofing. Take this information or discard it. Hope that helps. Oh, and metal roofs will fade over time, but will still way outlast shingles for sure. Edit: @7:16 he shows a ridge cap that appears to have a gap that wind blown rain can get into. Again, this is his sales pitch. That gap you see is caused by a waterproof seal that expands under the metal. That is not, I repeat, that is not a leak. @7:30 he says standing seam has no seam. If that is the case then why is it called standing "seam"? It absolutely has a seam. That is like saying bacon isn't bacon, or that we are comparing peaches to pairs hear and peaches don't have an acidic citrus value while pairs do. Think about that.
Standing seam vs. Exposed fasteners. 1)I have not done many standing seam roofs. However, they definitely are not fastened to the roof as well as exposed fastener roofs. Exposed fastener roofs are screws down every 6 inches or so horizontally and every two ft vertically. Standing seam is not...and have way less fasteners. 2) exposed fastener roofs do not have a neoprene washer as this guy stated. The washers are made out of EPDM which is a rubber that lasts 30 plus years and is used on full 100x10 ft rolls (weighing in around 450lbs) of EPDM on commercial roofs( big buildings). Exposed fastener metal roofs are durable and also increase the value of the home. 3) exposed fastener roofs are way faster to install. Which costs less in labor. 4) in my opinion standing seam is boring looking. Think of the jeeps that have exposed bolts and nuts and stuff...they look cool as shit. Standing seam looks way less cool. 5) if a tree branch falls on standing seam you have to take the roof off from one side and potentially to the other to replace a panel. That is not the case with exposed fastener roofs. So think about the labor costs on that one. 6)exposed fastener roofs are easier and faster to install. They are easier to repair. Warranty for exposed is around 35 years. 7) if you have a house and getting a roof any of the metal roofs add value to the home. They might just last 50 years. Warranted for 35 for exposed fastener. Think about that. Talk to more roofers. Then make your decision. Exposed fastener is cheaper and lasts just about as long. (There is some preventive maintenance that isnt necessary until you get leak but just to prevent a leak, which would only happen at a screw, is to have the screws replaced before the warranty is up.) That's my take. I've done a lot of roofing. Take this information or discard it. Hope that helps. Oh, and metal roofs will fade over time, but will still way outlast shingles for sure. Edit: @7:16 he shows a ridge cap that appears to have a gap that wind blown rain can get into. Again, this is his sales pitch. That gap you see is caused by a waterproof seal that expands under the metal. That is not, I repeat, that is not a leak. @7:30 he says standing seam has no seam. If that is the case then why is it called standing "seam"? It absolutely has a seam. That is like saying bacon isn't bacon!
@@carcasscruncher9354 ageee with all except the ridge isn’t exposed from sealant, if you’re using a sealant that expands then you’re doing it wrong, standard MS water resistant silicone seal doesn’t expand, the ridge is sitting up because it’s screwed right on both edges causing it to sit in it’s normal bowed position rather than being flattened and then fixed closer to the ridges apex (or the ridge should have been made wider) Like the ridge underneath has been flattened before fixing.
The instructions for my pole barn ridged steel was to put the fasteners on the ridges to maximize strength, and minimize seepage and weathering. The fasteners had a cup that enclosed most of the gasket when properly torqued. 18 years now, and they stilll look good. Materials from Menards.
Hi. Many thanks for the video. I appreciate the advantage of those clips rather than screws, but it wasn't clear how the next red panel to the right in your video, would be fixed to the structure. Or is it only attached to the first panel with an upturned U-shaped seam ?
Hmm. Have used screws here in S. Calif. on many projects some about 15 years old now with no issues, 110* in the summer, 20-30s in the winter. Some of the projects have housed $30,000-$80,000 worth of astronomy equipment. When installed correctly i feel its a pretty solid system.
I'm sure all he said is true but my only problem with this is there's a lot of old roofs around with old nailed down 5V tin that's 50-100 years old still going strong. But I'm sure standing seem is better but how much better is it really??
They have screws that cover the washer for the corrugated metal roof. You can also put your screws on the high part of the corrugated metal roof (Likely never leak.) Corrugated metal is not usually 29 gauged. 24 and 26 is more common. However the expansion and contraction is a strong point for standing seam. After 10 - 15 years replacing your screws on a corrugated metal is a good idea for maintenance ($ 1,500 - $ 3,000). One can also use purlins (1x4) nailed to roof creating an air gap helping one with insulation and reducing expansion and contraction damage (I do not know about standing seam. To me it came down to cost. I paid about 50% more for my corrugated roof than shingles. I have a 10/12 pitch and it ate my shingles alive. However it was about another 50% increase to step up to standing seem. I'm sure all regions are different with the cost structure. Standing Seems is also better if you want solar in the future. I have a southern looking home in Florida so the corrugated on my 20 acres seem to be a better architectural choice. If money is not a concern, standing seams like a better choice. Florida just overhauled the laws in regards to roof damage complicating the cost benefit of better roofing.
I put a corrugated roof on myself in Fl. also and love it. Make sure to stick to the manufacturers guidelines for screws. Mine had to go in the flats to keep from voiding the warranty.
@@da324 where I'm at the screws on any edge has to go in the flats for wind up lift, but above the roofs edge you can be on top of the corrugated section.
@thomasmoss1066 My manufacturer said two screws on each side of the ridge of the corrugated roof at the top and bottom. Between the top and bottom, they have to be every 12". I put 1x4's on the deck one foot apart under the metal to land the screws. I have an out building I built 20 yrs ago, and that manufacturer said the ridge. Never had a leak on that roof.
Yeah this guys Taken the worst case scenarios with one and not the other. I've done both. Just replace the screws every 8 to 10 years. Standing seam is great but has to installed perfect or you have alot of problems. And standing seam isn't cost effective yet. It's the diffrence between 2500$ to 10,000 dollars. Just replace the damn screws every 8 to 10 years done deal.
I've alwasy been told that on a corrugated roof the screws should always go through the top of the large rib, not through the flat section as in your demo. There's less chance of it leaking if the screw is up on top of the rib.
Yeah,why would you want to put holes in your roof where the water isn't running. The only reason they put the screws in the flat is because it is easy,easy to nail and easy for the water to get in.
The other thing that I found out about standing seam is of the metal is flat with no profile in between it has a opportunity to oil can when it heats up. A lot of great info in your video
I took a look a this company's Facebook photos. The standing seam roof I saw was "oil canned" like crazy. There is no way I would accept that workmanship!
A lot of metal rooves are installed without underlayment. That underlayment would seem a good idea to save the wooden purlin and screw connection. I see screws and nails coming free from the purlins due to the moisture of condensation getting caught on the purlins. The resulting rust over time deteriorates the wooden purlin. I haven't tried, but I'd like to see more of the screws inserted through the top of the panel ridges. I'm curious how hammering or screwing the screws affect the surface of the ridges. Would they get mashed or dimpled and cause a water ponding or building up instead of shedding the water? I've observed a surprising amount of water from condensation shed under the roof panels. The type of wood used for purlins might affect the duration of the roof as well.
I always thought you get what you pay for. Not in this case! I went with Hy-Grade roofing even though they were by far the most expensive quote I received. Worst decision I could have made. They promised to install the roof in 4-6 weeks, of course they were late. When they finally showed up without the proper equipment and they damaged my property. They are really proud of the “Quality Audit” that they do, but of course they won’t give you a copy of the audit…lol BTW - the “Quality Audit” they did at my house consisted of 2 guys coming over to pickup the leftover junk they left at my house for a month. They never even went up on the roof! Horrible customer service experience! Save your money use someone else!
Great video. I've picked up some vintage bare galvanized corrugated roofing for a special project. It is THICK STUFF. Occasionally I'll find a replacement piece that is half the thickness.
Thanks for the teaching. I was ready to to just hire anyone to do my roof. Now I know what to ask for. Either I hire the right roofer or don´t hire anyone.
Late to the game here, but one thing you didn't mention is wind load protection. Down here in south Florida we have to meet Dade County Hurricane wind load specifications. If I'm correct, the standing seam metal roof has the highest wind load protection between shingles or screw-down metal roofs. Thanks
Awesome information! My question is around installation, can standing seam be installed over top of corrugated? My corrugated roof is now 22 years old and needs an upgrade, we live in the snow belt and usually by mid February the snow and ice builds up on the roof and doesn’t slide off easily, it slowly creeps down because of the exposed screw heads, and the overhang can get to four feet before it breaks off. We are going to replace the roof this summer with standing seam regardless of wither we can go over it or not.
The metal is crimped together after the clips are installed. You can see this at 9:02, also it is typically screwed at the very top of the panel which is covered by the ridge cap and sometimes at the bottom as well depending on how it is installed.
I can't believe you're in the roofing industry and you can't screw a roof down properly. If you screwed the exposed fasteners correctly you wouldn't have the problems you talk about. NEVER screw in the valley, only on the ridge. NEVER over constrain the sheet by putting in too many screws (it needs to move, a screw on each side of the ridge is a big no-no) In Australia we have been using exposed fasteners for decades on corrugated metal roofing. It is a tried and true method in extreme heat and cold. Even if the washers did deteriorate the water needs to rise above the ridge to even think about leaking. My own home has exposed fasteners, I've been living in it for over thirty-five years and have not had a leak. Not saying that 'Standing Seam Roofing' is worse (or better), I'm just pointing out the 'evils' you mention for exposed fasteners don't exist if done properly.
I’m curious about the meaning of valley , are you saying only screw down on ridge sides or are you saying to screw through the ridges on each panel? You guys in Australia certainly know a lot about steel roofs so I’m interested , very interested. I need to build in a hot desert 120 F to 30F in Arizona
if you take the time to cut 1by 1 and place them down first whare the ridges will lie, then screw the metal to the 1 by 1 and seal the over lap. just do a little thinking before starting;~
@@utube012341 Hi Tom, I did reply to you a couple of days ago but my comment seems to have gone missing (maybe because I had hyperlinks?????) To answer your question, think of the roof sheet as a mountain range. The valleys are the low points (the flat of the sheet on the profile shown in the video) and the ridge (or crest) is the top of the rib. FYI:-Wall sheets are screwed differently to roof sheets. The manufacturer of the roofing material should provide thorough installation instructions for their product. It's not just about where you put the screws, there are are a number of factors that contribute to the overall performance of any roof. Starting from the base frame up to the type of screws you use and even the type of sealant that is compatible with their product. Try googling "lysaght roof installation manual" as an example of what I'm talking about. Much work has been done in our cyclone (I think you call them hurricanes) prone areas in Australia and screwed down corrugated metal roofing seems to be the most resilient. If they can withstand the very high wind speeds of a cyclone and not get ripped of or leak then they are good enough for where I live. Hope that helps and good luck with your project.😀
@@Jack_C_ thank you !!! I’ll be dealing with high temperatures and winds but not often over 50 mph . I really appreciate this information as I have taken note of Australian ranch roofs as it seems like a similar climate . I’m impressed by the huge overhangs , they must provide a lot of sidewall shade
Great, informative videos, thanks. Question, I want to use a couple of corrugated for something else, and I need to flatten out the ridges. And idea, the best way to do that?
I have put on standing seam on some condos, the company that produced the standing seam had a dog leg on the receiving seam. No claps just screw into the dog leg.
@David Vazquez Like he mentioned, corrugated thickness can be as low as 29 gauge which is cheaper. For SS, the labor work is more technical on the flashing.
@David Vazquez I just bought standing seam for a 1500sq ft roof... was $6900 with all metal included and gutters etc. Corrugated would've been 1/3-1/2 that but has to be replaced every 15 years. Standing seam is 60+ years or forever if done properly. Western States Metal has good pricing and really knowledgeable staff... also has a youtube channel thats very informative.
I didn't read all the comments of others so maybe it was mentioned. But one other MAJOR difference between the two systems is the COST. The corrugated is way cheaper and easier to install for any layman. The sheets come in about 3 foot widths whereas the other is 1 foot. Yes, the seamless is better for all the reasons mentioned in the ad, but corrugated has its application and can be leakproof too if installed correctly.
I’ve re-roofed more standing seam than I have shingled roofs ! Screw down has proven itself time & time again ! I have only gone back to 1 that I replaced all the screws because the owner fed into the hogwash that the screws will leak in another year or two. I did the job & was then told that his steel roof was 25 years old ! I then showed him his screws & 99.999% were just fine & they would not have leaked ! Use the screw down steel people you’ll be happy you did ! btw, all my buildings & house are screwed down & no leaks up here in Montana ... my buddy HAD a standing seam roof & it was ripped right off the first year unfortunately the contractor died of a heart failure but we got the guys insurance to replace it & I put on screw down steel been great up to now @15 yrs !
Thanks for the explanation of differences.....it would be beneficial for you to show how the standing seam panels come together (how they become water tight/water proof)?
This is what the Director at the Canadian Roofing Association (CRCA) has to say about Hy-Grade: "I will say that I have researched this company - Hy-Grade Roofing - and did not take me long to find several complaints and bad reviews with the BBB (Better Business Bureau). These types of complaints would have been enough for me to pass on this contractor. I see many issues and complaints related to the many ‘Metal Roofing Companies’ who promise the world to the customer, then don’t follow through when it’s time to enforce the warranty or get issues rectified..." Not even the CRCA would use you as a contractor. I invite all potential customer to contact the CRCA before signing with Hy-grade!
I've done at least 500 corrugated Roofing jobs most of the screws I would guarantee them with the washers to last at least 20 years probably closer to 30 I've done roof 25 years ago in the screws are still fine no leaks
Like you said all metal roofs expand whether screwed or hidden seam they popped out. Just like everything maintain it. If you get a storm good luck depending where you live.
The standing seem roof also conforms to the shape of your roof even if you have underlayment. If you have just the slightest imperfection in the roof, it will show it. They call it oil canning.
No, oil canning is when expansion from the sun causes the metal to arch up like the bottom of an oil can. That's why they call it oil canning. That's why you need striations in the metal to absorb the expansion. Totally flat metal oil cans terribly.
I did not go to the scientific library, rather people I've talked to in the Metal Roofing business, say that they call any expansion and contraction due the sun or weather is "sometimes" referred to as oil canning. However I did look google this "Oil canning is defined as the perceived waviness of a metal panel and is an inherent characteristic of light-gauge, cold-rolled flat metal products. In other words, it's a visual phenomenon that makes metal panels look wavy or somewhat distorted, especially in the broad, flat areas of a metal roof or wall system". I'm not arguing this, it's just an analysis.
REALLY appreciate y'all producing this short informative clip, I had wondered WHY I didn't see any screws in these roofs for commercial buildings, HOW MANY of those clips are used in one length?
i appreciate the video very professional. i was hoping you were going to include comparison for sub surface requirements AND A ROUGH COST COMARISON I WOULD LOVE TO INVEST IN STANDING SEAM. I HAVE A HIGH PITCHED ROOF 1932 CEDAR shingles nailed directly to horizontal true 1 x no underlayment. Approximately 30 years ago Asphalt shingles were reroofed on top of existing. No tear off, no sheathing added. The attic height approx 20 ft and 42 wide.Basically a rectangular layout in Southern California, ( snow present in the yard once in 1978). My QUESTION: .If only ridged insulation panels are required and additional horizontal nailers I hoping to save on the traditional costs of wood sheathing underlayment using asphalt shingles. Am I out in left field on this or what.
This isn't a comparison of the two systems by an unbiased party. When I saw the fasteners installed in the valleys of the corrugated sheet I could see where this was going. Why would you install fasteners where the water will run? Also, the corrugations allow for expansion horizontally so that problem doesn't apply. For vertical expansion there would only be a difference if the fasteners on standing seam are loose enough for slippage. That seems sketchy. I'd want to see a demo of a fastener marked and shown movement from the mark due to sunlight. Best to check other sources also before deciding what's best for your home/climate/budget.
Being able to expand/contract. How would it differ from screwed down corregated panel if the home owner decided to have solar panels installed, that needs to be screwed down to the roof steucture?
Call me skeptical, but since he never compared pricing I suspect the cost of this stuff makes it impractical compared to either corrugated or shingles.
Always good to be skeptical. You are correct, in that the up front cost is significantly higher than the alternatives. Worth noting, though, is that the long term cost is actually cheaper, in that a properly installed standing seam roof will out last 2 or 3 shingle changes. There are standing seam roofs in my area approaching 90 years old and going strong, despite repeated hurricanes and 80 inches annual rainfall. Standing seam roofs are also less likely to leak, leading to lower repair bills, and most insurance companies in my area give a discount for this roof type. Also, if you're considering solar, many systems can clip to standing seam without penetrations. Pay attention to flat vs striated panels, as flat can have big issues with 'oil canning.' Corrugated metal is also good as long as you keep on top of screw/washer changes, right around every 10-15 years or so, depending on climate, as the panels can last way longer than the washers/screws. Maintenance on damaged panels is WAY easier with corrugated. The paint applied is determined by the manufacturer, and not the type of panel as this video might suggest. You can get corrugated with paint just as good as that on standing seam. There are corrugated roofs here in fine shape after 30 to 40 years of service. Proper install is crucial with any roof, or all bets are off. You'll have to do your own math, but in my very rainy, hurricane prone area it makes more financial sense to use standing seam as long as you plan on being in the house for more than the lifetime of one shingle roof. If you're in a dry area, or if you don't plan on staying long term, its probably better to go with the cheaper options. Cheers.
You just got a long explanation. Now I will give you a short one....your wrong on both counts. Just had Standing Seam done and in pricing it was about 25% more than a shingle roof. So is it impractical to install a lifetime (my lifetime) roof, not hardly. I would hate to even imagine a shingle roof done at today's cost and then add that with what the increase in material and labor cost will be on another roof in 25 years.
@@realityquotient7699 Although I will qualify that 25% more price as was in my case. I am sure the price could vary, I received 4 estimates and 3 came from Amish crews (of one I went with) the other a more advertised company and they were more $ by a ways. Standing seam is more specialized work than corrugated steel and those contractors can be farther in between so the pricing can vary with competition. I was also contracted for this spring and metal pricing has gone up considerably since then but so has lumber and shingles so would be hard to say %'s at today's costs.
The clips prevent leaking but not lateral expansion that creates oil canning. This is commonly known in the industry.That's why you want standing seam WITH striations or corrogation in the metal. Otherwise you'll see your roof popping up. Don't get a totally flat paneled roof. Look at other sources on this.
Don't the panels in this vid have striations? They're not as prominent as the ones in the corrugated panel, but they're there. Are you saying that they should be more visible than the ones here?
@@MajorImpact The red standing seam panel he shows doesn't appear to have striations, just ornamental bends for strength. Metal roofing experts say that people have the most oil canning problems with these kinds of flat panels. And what he's saying is incorrect according to them. The seams don't absorb expansion and contraction, the striations do. You actually need some corrogation in the striations - even if just at a very small size to prevent oil canning due to expansion and contraction. The panels need to be able to expand and contract like an accordion. Watch some other experts on here. You'll see what I mean.
Being in the business for over 30 years, to allow your lateral expansion. You do not force the cleat tight to the vertical of the lock on the panel, allow a little bit. Most of the oil canning is caused but screwing the cleat down to tight to the sheathing or insulation. You have to use common sense when installing any metal roof or flashing.
Steep roof cabins in the mountains do better with standing seam sheet metal roofing as long as there are no valleys in the roof design. The screws holding corrugated sheet metal bend over and eventually tear out over time due to snow buildup, bottom layer ice formation, and eventual migration of accumulated snow/ice down slope. I see this on mountainous area cabins where they get a lot of snow. So called “fat boy” fasteners have been employed to curb bending but eventually even they get worked out where moisture seeps under the screw seal washer, freezes, expands, pulling the screw up bit by bit over time. If a cabin was built where the roof has a valley, neither roofing type will stand up. The ridges of corrugated, and seams of standing seam, sheet metal roofs can allow ice and snow to accumulate massively in the valleys. As thawing commences slope accumulations begin to migrate down slope into the valley of both slopes causing haphazard build-up and creating “glaciers”. These eventually become so large/heavy they overcome the strength of materials and migrate down valley while tearing out/through obstructions in path. Think what ridges and seams of either roofing type do, they act as obstructions, not to slope but to down valley migration. I’ve seen several feet of slope of corrugated sheet metal roofs get mashed/ twist over / torn off in and above the valleys of these roofs. No type of fastener, sheet metal roofing type can stop this type of damage unless the surface is completely smooth or valleys nonexistent.
I hear that it is easier to install solar on standing seam, but I would be cautious as to the method used, that they are not drilling into the seam, but using a clamp of some sort to do it.
Sales tactic, the screw doesn't go where you placed it, it screws on the highest spot for 2 reasons, one is if the rubber fails the water still won't get in, two, with expansion and contraction the screw can move with it
pretty good job over explaining the differences I have been putting metal roofs on since 1977 huge commercial jobs steel mills factories schools churches power plants maybe I'm just lucky but we do not use Amish screws with the little rubber gaskets we use commercial grade screws into Steel I have never had him back out one thing I am curious about he said no screws go into the sheeting on all the commercial jobs I've ever done according to the prince you have to put screws in the top for the sheet and the bottom I did not see this on your sheathing on your standing seam by the way all the commercial sheathing I've worked with I'm standing scene have slide clips so if you didn't pin the bottom and a top everything would slide down hill and if your clips do not slide then there is no expansion and contraction do that roof sheet by the way I have put standing-seam roofs from Florida the Minnesota and literally hundreds of Acres of roof
If the screws are correctly installed to where the gasket does not become totally flattened out when screwed , then the tuff ribbed metal will be just fine and will not back out , if you also used furring strips screwed into you roof joist . The steel is also manufactured warranty with a limited 40 year minimum life on structure and color if properly installed . I love mine and it was 12k less than standing seam , for 32 squares of roof surface with 4 pitch gables and 4 valleys .
We have a corrugated roof in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. Heavy snow and ice loads. It's 20 years old and in great shape. The screws are all holding up well.
you are very lucky ... buy a Lottery Ticket and see if your luck is still going strong ...
Can I your contractor contact I am from Michigan
@@saleindia9884 hey Sale India, I'm in Michigan. I have done exposed fastener roofs for many years now and have never had a complaint. This video is just a sales pitch for what this guy knows. He called it a neoprene washer. It is not a neoprene washer. It is an EPDM washer. EPDM is the same material for commercial roofs and last 30 plus years. Previous to doing metal roofs I did commercial roofs. This guy already at 1:33 in doesnt know what he is talking about or is just trying to make more money by up-selling standing seam.
Same here in the Ozarks in Missouri. If you dont torque the washers down too much, better chance it won't leak...
we've got 20 on ours and it leaks and sweats, not to mention the fade and chalky look
I'm a metal roofer in VT and I concur with your assessment of both types of roofing material. Standing seam out performs every other residential roofing product that I've installed for the last 22years.
FACT!
The H-Loc system from Central States manufacturing is the best system I've ever installed. If installed right, it will last forever
Is standing seam double the cost of a corrugated metal?
@@minni1094
It depends, generally not double, but still more than corrugated.
@@beardedroofer I just got quoted $7400 for corrugated and $14K for standing seam. No valleys pretty straight forward job.
Installed my 1st snap lock 1 " standing seam roof this past year. Shed roof 28 ft from ridge to drip edge & 52 ft wide. Had to build a ramp up to roof to keep such long pieces from kinking while transferring from ground to roof. Points I would share: 1 - got a quote from a roofing Co. Quote was 24,000.00. I bought all needed supplies including stove pipe penetration kit & 2" vent penetration kit plus all needed screws, trim, caulking etc for $8000.00 & installed completely in 80 hrs alone - another 4,400.00 for my time. I used a paint on vapor barrier on the roof ply. Thats half the quoted price. I was pleased with the simplicity of the installation but it WAS the simplest of roofs. The waterproofing edge details were logical & easy to bend/install/caulk in foam inserts. I would definitely use again but maybe not on more complicated roofs with a lot of penetrations.
This is funny. In 1971, a school was throwing away sheet metal as they were tearing down the school. My Father brought it all home, and my mother jumped all over him for doing this. He took it all in stride, and let her yapp away. We had an old barn he kept his tractors in, so, he took that sheet metal, put it on the roof of that old barn and that sheet metal was covered with tar yiu can buy at a hardware store as he painted that over the sheet metal. That roof, lasted a long, long time into the future. My Father was way ahead of his time in thinking before this metal roof paten was even currently thought of. My Father was a genius in a lot of things he did.
😂 I love it
Another great thing about seam style is if you plan on mounting solar panels, the mounts simply clamp on the seam instead of putting additional holes in the roof.
neighbor just had solar panels taken off of his metal roof and it was standing seam . It cost to much he said to have the solarpanels cleaned and repaired . squirrels and bird damage to wires , bird poop and pollen and dust on the panels need to be cleaned off at a cost of almost 500 dollars 2 times a year . now he is dealing with the roof damage to his metal roof . He wished he had gone with ground mounted solar panels now . But then we have deer and foxes and bears and would still have birds and squirrels and possums and raccoons . The panels were mounted to his huge tall utilty building that houses his RV and workshop
@@sissymurphy9620 that’s crazy, I live in a woods & mine are just laying flat on my flat roof & I barely have any issues like that. Ground mount sounds great except most of use don’t have the space or there is to much shade.
@@jtr82369 He has had them up 4 years and when I talked to him ,he said he has had wires replaced 12 times and 4 solar panles replaced . Pollen gets so heavy here from trees that my white car looks like it is green , wash it 2 hours later same thing . .We have lots of pine trees and he said sap and bird poop are destructive . Panels have to be cleaned or he looses some of his power . We get lots of huge buzzards here and when they poop they poop and will even eat paint off things . Trukeys are worse but at least they can't fly up and land on your solar panels . Which he has pics of a bunch of buzzards up on his solar panels
The best place for solar panels is a ground mount. If you don’t have room, then find another suitable place to live where you can install one in the yard.
@@USA-GreedyMenOfNoIntegrity there is no issue with using what would otherwise be wasted space on a roof, plus this style of metal roof is the best type for solar. The vast majority of people don’t have yard space and if they do, there is shade issues that are out of your control.
I Was Taught By a Very Experienced Professional Contractor That on Corrugated You Put The Screws on The Ridges Not The Flats. He and I Did My Roof and Still Looks Good After 14 Years
I agree
We put a Menards metal roof on our utility building many years ago, and that is what we did - put the screws on the ridges.
Good for you on 14 years. Flat on flat vs flat on 1inch ridge standing up. Never would I put screws on the ridges. Unless it comes to flashing
@@colinsmith7884 I've always thought of the screws on the flats as being one of the inherent weaknesses of the corrugated roof becuase the washer takes constant abuse anytime it rains. That being said, that's the only place they're supposed to go. The ridges do not have sufficeint backing to put the screws there. We thought of "shimming behind the ridge because (obviously) the ridge would be the best place to put the screws for less water intrusion. Without a backer, the screws MUST go into the flats. Flats...Period...end of discussion.
@peace prayer I was taught to put screws in the flat. Not arguing with you over that. Some people rather put them on the the ridges. They seem to split into a crack. Don't understand the hate man
I am gobsmacked that the screwed sheet is pierced in the valley. Always on ridge in NZ, cup screw protects washer, lasts 30 yrs +
Same here in Canada.
Here in the states, the old style 5v crimp was fastened on top of the "v", but generally that was with the old style lead head nails and later grommeted nails. But with the advent of the screws with neoprene washers, it became acceptable and standard to screw in the flats. This is acceptable only if the screws are properly installed to the correct tension because of two factors. #1, the threads of the screws tend to pull the metal up the shaft when driven, which creates a type of dam under the washer. #2, the screws are only driven until the neoprene part of the washer "begins" to crush. The washers are sloped from the screw head, if the screw is tightened until the washer is flat and parallel with the roof surface, that in my opinion is to tight. By leaving the washer with it's factory taper and the neoprene just compressing, that leaves the ridge from the threads raised and the neoprene in good contact with the tapered screw shank and roof metal. Also, it leaves the roof metal some room for the expansion and contraction he warned about.
I have installed several of these roofs, "MasterRib", "GrandRib, and 5V-Crimp and have never had any problems with the ones I've installed. And they're plenty more in my area that I've heard no complaints over as far as screws loosening or leaking.
Everyone does that, and act like I am crazy when I tell them how stupid it is. Don't put holes where the water goes... Also around here they face screw the standing seem valleys. What is the point of a standing seem roof with exposed fasteners...
@@talon426 Yea, all the standing seam systems that are available for the "erect it yourself" metal building crowd have exposed screws across the bottom and the top. They only use the clips through the middle portion. You pay more, work at least twice as hard, and the panels still have holes in the top and the bottom. I understand that the one they are installing does not but I'm sure I also don't want to pay their price... hence the hard sell.
Those plastic washers last about 2 days in Western Australia heat and UV! Rubber ones similar 🙁
We're installing a standing seam roof on a construction project I've got here in the U.K - didn't have a clue what this type of roof was until this video - very informative, thank you!
Have you sourced a contractor? I'm at the planning stage for a project using standing seam and could do with a recommendation 👍
@@JulianParry1 just saw your comment, I've been installing zinc copper aluminium and stainless standing seam roofing in the UK for the last 48 yrs if you'd like to get in touch,
Hi, who supplied you with the standing seam roof sheets?
In the UK we have just had Storm Eunice and the record-breaking 120mph gust on the Isle of White. The rooves that blew off were all Standing Seem types. Once the wind gets under an edge it rips off the whole roof - because the first panel to lift becomes a sail as the seam from one panel to the next panels holds in the wind and the drag from the loose panel is transferred to the next panel and just like a zipper , the whole roof peels off. In the Corrugated system, if the wind gets under a panel it gets pulled off - but it does not take other panels with it. Perhaps the edge detail needs to be improved to stop the first failure in standing seems.
Perhaps it's in the installation? Our house and many of our neighbors in the Virgin Islands have shown standing seam to be the roofing of choice. Having been through back to back Category 5 hurricanes (sustained winds over 156mph) in 2017, they were the roofs that survived the best.
Haha yeah I just had a screwdown installed on my house. They seem a lot stronger to me
I'm glad you brought that up, the video I just watched was a salesman telling us how one sucked & standing seem was the best, he left out parts like you just brought up.
I didn’t see any standing seam roofs blow off in north Devon. I did see many tiled roofs damaged.
I can see that happening. I asked about the spacing of screws around perimeter & in the field & not 1 tech support employee nor sales person gave a worst case scenario screw pattern for storm all of them suggested about 3 x the spacing I ended up doing.
Oddly enough up here where known for tornadoes and high winds but from what Ive seen on barns and some houses under sever winds and tornados I have seen standing seam missing panels or sections from bad storms but I have not seen a metal roof panel held down by screws come off unless the actual roof came off with it
Yes, an amish roofer just told me today that prorib not gonna blow off at all. lol
Sure, but the other roof already holes in it and is probably leaking
In Florida, never had screws back out. One exception was a 60 year old home some screws backed out slightly but never had a leak. Replaced the screws no big deal. Also, expansion is minimal. 90% of the roofs here have corrugated metal with screws and some of the homes are very old.
Sounds good to me. After that long I'll be roof shopping in another dimension.
I’m guessing expansion would be more of an issue in temperate climats like here in Canada where temps can be as high as 40C in summer to -40c in winter.
I think your typical wavy corrugated roof has plenty of give in it to take up the expansion
I imagine Florida has less temperature swing than a lot of the country. Expansion and contraction is going to be less if it’s hot all year compared to places where it gets hot in the summer and cold in the winter.
very good presentation as a union carpenter I saw plenty of corragrated metal and standing seam all installed by union roofers, but we installed siding of corragrated metal and always thought those washers were the weak link in this product
Take what he says with a grain of salt. The thickness of the metal is based on what they order for roll stock, same can be used for both, same with coatings. Length of panels can be made the same length on site in both types if they come with the equipment rather than a premade product. Interlocking seams on the top/bottom can be bent into both products IF the person applying it does it (generally not done though). The ridges with standing seams are easily damaged with sliding ice in valleys in Northern climates, similar to corrugated but the standing seam is much more prone to damage as it's straight up seams, where the ice can skate across the bumps in the corrugated not always damaging it. I don't sell/install either product but the only item in his list that really stands out is the washers in all those exposed screws, that's the biggest weakness in the product he is trying to put down.
Both types of metal roofing suck. Shingles are the best option for pitched residential roofing applications .
I have in the past, worked commercial construction as a Superintendant, then Estimator and Project Manager. The last 20 years as an Owners Rep and as such a specifier. Most of my ground up experience has been Pre-engineered Metal Buildings along the Gulf Coast.
If I misunderstood your comment let me apologize now. This is an opportunity for me to learn.
We don’t have icing / snow conditions down here. Thank God! We do have Hurricanes and my experience has been, a roof fails for a few reasons. Often fasteners or the lack/failure there-of, at trim and also at the sheet edge where the constant high wind, often excess of 100 mph for hours, will get beneath a metal edge and cause it to oscillate until the metal tears allowing the head to pull thru or the sheet tears, creating a sail. That’s why I personally like standing seam, with its concealed fastener and hemmed edge detail.
Oil canning and costs are the negative.
Back to my question. How do you hem an end of a piece of R-panel ( corrugated ) roofing?
Thanks
@@brettsurrett4596 I completely disagree, metal roofing is great and installs very efficiently.
@@gr8fullfred easy installation doesn't result in a quality product. But if it works for you,great.
@@brettsurrett4596 not easy, efficiently
I dip my screws in melted butyl rubber, it never dries up and cracks and keeps the washer from deteriorating. A small step that assures leaks don't happen. Butyl rubber is the best to seal metal roofing as it remains viscous even in extremely low temps.
How do you make the melted butyl rubber?
@@termgrecos3451 Buy a roll of butyl and put it in a coffee can on a heater. Butyl is actually fluid, just of an enormously high viscosity. It melts to a toothpaste like consistency at around 160 degrees and even while it's cooling it still adheres to the threads. Matter of fact, it sticks to EVERYTHING, lol so use cheap leather gloves. But a little butane torch works great to lay it down in ropes and seal gaps. Way better than silicone caulking. That stuff rubs off, butyl takes thinner or gasoline to remove it. Once it's on, it's on!
@@genefogarty5395 Nice! Thanks a lot!
@Anon ymouse I am not the producer of this vid but i can tell you some things.
Standing seam vs. Exposed fasteners.
1)I have not done many standing seam roofs. However, they definitely are not fastened to the roof as well as exposed fastener roofs. Exposed fastener roofs are screws down every 6 inches or so horizontally and every two ft vertically. Standing seam is not...and have way less fasteners.
2) exposed fastener roofs do not have a neoprene washer as this guy stated. The washers are made out of EPDM which is a rubber that lasts 30 plus years and is used on full 100x10 ft rolls (weighing in around 450lbs) of EPDM on commercial roofs( big buildings). Exposed fastener metal roofs are durable and also increase the value of the home.
3) exposed fastener roofs are way faster to install. Which costs less in labor.
4) in my opinion standing seam is boring looking. Think of the jeeps that have exposed bolts and nuts and stuff...they look cool as shit. Standing seam looks way less cool.
5) if a tree branch falls on standing seam you have to take the roof off from one side and potentially to the other to replace a panel. That is not the case with exposed fastener roofs. So think about the labor costs on that one.
6)exposed fastener roofs are easier and faster to install. They are easier to repair. They are warranted for about the same amount of time.
7) if you have a house and getting a roof any of the metal roofs add value to the home. They might just last 50 years. Warranted for 35 for exposed fastener.
Think about that. Talk to more roofers. The make your decision.
Exposed fastener is cheaper and lasts just about as long. (There is some preventive maintenance that isnt necessary until you get leak but just to prevent a leak, which would only happen at a screw, is to have the screws replaced before the warranty is up.)
That's my take. I've done a lot of roofing. Take this information or discard it. Hope that helps.
Oh, and metal roofs will fade over time, but will still way outlast shingles for sure.
Edit: @7:16 he shows a ridge cap that appears to have a gap that wind blown rain can get into. Again, this is his sales pitch. That gap you see is caused by a waterproof seal that expands under the metal. That is not, I repeat, that is not a leak.
@7:30 he says standing seam has no seam. If that is the case then why is it called standing "seam"? It absolutely has a seam. That is like saying bacon isn't bacon, or that we are comparing peaches to pairs hear and peaches don't have an acidic citrus value while pairs do. Think about that.
Thank you for explaining the difference! I have a 50 year old standing seam roof that I need to replace. The roof still doesn't leak. The only reason I'm replacing it is because the edges are coming up and are bent.
Just repair what you have..
This was the type of information I needed regarding types of metal roofs to make a wise decision. Thanks.
I love my job I have doing roofing over 12 years now I love standing seams we r doing a 7500 square foot roof now
What wood you recommend going under that
All too often, contractors drive aluminum fasteners into steel, which sets up for electrolytical corrosion, a problem which plagued the aircraft industry, in the early, to mid 20th century. In roofing, this leads to widening holes, and tears, around fasteners, in addition to the thermal expansion, and contraction related tearing of panels, and popping out of fasteners. Thanks for sharing this.
Do tell me about these aluminum fasteners? I've never seen a n aluminum fastener and would never use one as it would be soft and probably break.
@@mikebeasley553 They're out there. I made the mistake of buying a box of screws, and got them, because they were cheaper. They were aluminum. Nearly every head broke off, about 3/4 the way through.
@@ThomasGrillo That would be my prediction.
It's called galvanic corrosion.
@@everythingmatters6308 Nope. When differing metals are in contact with each other it's electrolytic corrosion. Galvanic corrosion is the result of oxidation from prolonged exposure to the air. Trust me, I got that directly from a metallurgist, who corrected me on that, as I got it backwards on a test. LOL
I've had experience with corrugated roofs in N. Idaho; they were older than 9-12 years however. Number 8 screws had backed out on one roof and many screws were missing. This roof would have been toast in the next windstorm. Original installer held his screw gun out of square to the surface. Replaced all screws with #14s, which saved the roof. However there was rot in the sheathing from leaks around screws. Roof boards were never replaced, unfortunately.
Can u not caulk over and tool with 795 to prevent this?
@@Pittsburghbad If you want to make the roof last a long time, you could roll elastomeric roof coating over the metal, screws, the entire roof. It is a thick acrylic that rolls on; it will seal everything and prevent the screws from backing out. If you can find a supplier who can mix custom colors, or even has it in premixed colors, one that you might like you can make the roof a suitable color for your taste. You will want to apply two coats of premium acrylic over an adhesive base coat and re-apply about every five years. Your roof will last forever! Make sure the screws are down tight, not too tight, before proceeding. Home depot has a version of this product, but in white only; sounds like you're in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania? In a city that size you should have no problem finding the product; it is water cleanup and not toxic at all. Don't fall off the roof!
Great content .... thank you! But drop the annoying background music that interferes with our ability to hear you clearly. :)
Yes, the music definitely ruins the video !
I'm in agreement. Several advertisers think back ground noise is going to get the public's attention but when they're filling the role of teaching seems they would want undistracted attention to gain a potential customers choice to purchase their products. Echo in the shop is loud enough. Music in the background further distracts undivided attention.
thanks the standing seam is what im going to have done,was leaning that way now you sold me ,thanks for the video
Straight to the point on 5 different categories.... I’ve looked thru many of video’s. Best way to let viewers know how to properly handle situations on metal roof panels and so on. Great video 🤙🏼🤙🏼
There is an old farm house just down the road from my home. It was built in 1932. It has an old tin roof that has been painted so many times that people lost count. I inspected the house and the attic. How that roof has lasted over 70 years without major work is beyond explanation.
Skilled Craftsmanship
My dad has a big quonset style barn made from corrugated steel. It uses the screws with the neoprene washers. We moved there in 1977 when the barn was who knows how old. It is still going strong, though there may be a few leaks around a handful of those screws. The thing has to be at least 55-60 years old.
😂😂 yes, the Old Corrugated
I had a roof with screws for thirty years with no screw leaks. I have a cabin with a screwed roof with no problem after 21 years. Our new home has standing seam metal and the some panels are 34’ long.
On standing seam panels, better put some screws in the top or they will walk down the roof and out from under the ridge cap.
@@larrynorsworthy8582 There are screws at the seams that are hidden by the overlapping panel. If these weren’t there the roof metal would lift in high winds.
Excellent training video. Standing seam metal roofs are the most solar friendly too because of the S-5-S clamp.
The standing seam metal roofing isn't so common in Nigeria... But watching you now, you've roused my curiosity to try to use it.
Pre drill all holes on the corrigated pannel !! Saves rubber washer from tearing.
Use white only = less expantion. For underlayment use
1/2 lap 15# felt and then install 1/4" fan fold foam board..
It will last a long long time.
There are metal roof products on the market that use hidden fastener systems and last a long time. I have installed both types in NH and have never had a problem. As long as you hem to the drip edge and use ice and water shield these roofs will last a long time. Attention to detail is the most important thing and you have to think like rainwater and snow so you will have no leakage.
Thanks you for showing between this 2 kinds. Stand seam are winner. This is good knowledge
Thirty two years ago I worked for a year in a sheet metal shop owned by Al a 70 year old man who grew up working in his family's sheet metal shop. I didn't do much installation but I did bend up a lot of single and double lock standing seam pans by hand useing an 10 foot break, in galvanized, copper, one lead coated copper job and hundreds and hundreds of attachment clips. I doubt I'll ever have a copper standing seam roof on my own house but I will have a coated steel standing seam roof one day. Al sold me on standing seam when I was 18 for many of the same reasons laied out in this video being, no attachment penetrations and the ability to expand and contract.
Ps. When I asked Al how long a lead coated copper roof would last he said "the building will probably fall down before the roof ever fails". It was a new concrete block building and this was its first roof.
I've been there too buddy. Hardly anyone does it that way anymore and I think the handbroke metal looks so much better
The Morton Buildings screw fastened metal paneling are thicker gauge one of the first to use kynar . Morton also does a very good job of making clean and sleek trims and Flashings. Really on any metal roof system you have to have good installers, it won't do any good to have a good product then have someone do a hack job, I see that alot.
awesome video, thanks, now I know standing seam metal roofing, next cabin build, it's going on.
Definitely a bias towards the standing seam. I get it, but at twice the cost for materials, it's not in everyones budget. I'm putting Fabral corrugated metal on my timber frame pavilion and with the little hint about the working life of the screw washers, will leave my self a reminder to replace them in about seven years, with a slightly larger diameter or longer screw if need be.
Don't buy the hard sell. If properly installed, the grommeted screws hold up well (if installed to manufacture specifications). Granted, you might not get the 100 years of the old school standing seam, but the neoprene washers will hold up as good as a high end shingle (20-30 years, again, if installed to spec).
@@davidhorsley1149 Thank you Sir, appreciate it. Injured my leg the day before installation, was able to drill panels on horses to spec, then had the wife and son hang them and screw them down, showed her how not to overly depress the washers, will double check them when leg is healed.
@@interestinoldschool8080 glad it helped. Speedy recovery on the leg.
Be cheaper to look into a spray sealant instead of replacing the screws. Gives your house a new color if you choose to and seals the damaged rubber washer's
@david Horsley it was just a suggestion. Many old metal buildings up north are turn to this. Like I said just a suggestion. Not everyone uses the clutch on the their drill and squeeze the washer
When I use corrugated steel roofing I always pre-drill the hole for the screws on the ridge, not the valleys. And to not have to worry about expansion and contraction warping the metal - just slightly oversize the hole. e.g. if the screws require a 4mm hole - then drill it to 4.5mm. Have never had any of the problems listed in this video and live in a fairly extreme climate.
One contractor told me that drilling holes heat up the area around the hole and caused the paint to eventually peel and the metal to rust but he drilled through a whole stack of metal ,are you drilling individual sheets?
@@davidborntreger3950 It depends on the job but generally if everything is square 5 sheets are drilled through at the same time. Otherwise we drill through single sheets. It's true that there would be a tiny amount of metal that lost its coating and be exposed but where we are gets an average of 600mm (24") rainfall a year. So rust is not a problem. But if there are any situations where it's likely that bare iron can come into contact with water for any length of time - it gets a spray of fish oil. That stuff sticks on for ages and you'll never have a problem.
I agree with the pre drill hole process and we put a dab of silicon in the hole prior to screwing.You can also add a bit of silicon over the screw heads lt will be a bit shiny but it sure helps eliminate washer issues
@@stevenbittinger5128 I've given up on silicone. There are a lot of documented reasons for that choice. I now use Quad or Lexel clear elastic sealant. And can't think of a single case where silicone is better.
Never knew the name of it but I've always liked it... Standing Seam 👍
I did metal roofs for 10 years and all the customers we're curious about the standing seam Roofing until they priced it. They all decided the screws weren't that big a deal. And yes there's a lot of BS going on this video.
hey, could you elaborate?
@@samwoj I am not the producer of this vid but i can tell you some things.
Standing seam vs. Exposed fasteners.
1)I have not done many standing seam roofs. However, they definitely are not fastened to the roof as well as exposed fastener roofs. Exposed fastener roofs are screws down every 6 inches or so horizontally and every two ft vertically. Standing seam is not...and have way less fasteners.
2) exposed fastener roofs do not have a neoprene washer as this guy stated. The washers are made out of EPDM which is a rubber that lasts 30 plus years and is used on full 100x10 ft rolls (weighing in around 450lbs) of EPDM on commercial roofs( big buildings). Exposed fastener metal roofs are durable and also increase the value of the home.
3) exposed fastener roofs are way faster to install. Which costs less in labor.
4) in my opinion standing seam is boring looking. Think of the jeeps that have exposed bolts and nuts and stuff...they look cool as shit. Standing seam looks way less cool.
5) if a tree branch falls on standing seam you have to take the roof off from one side and potentially to the other to replace a panel. That is not the case with exposed fastener roofs. So think about the labor costs on that one.
6)exposed fastener roofs are easier and faster to install. They are easier to repair. They are warranted for about the same amount of time.
7) if you have a house and getting a roof any of the metal roofs add value to the home. They might just last 50 years. Warranted for 35 for exposed fastener.
Think about that. Talk to more roofers. The make your decision.
Exposed fastener is cheaper and lasts just about as long. (There is some preventive maintenance that isnt necessary until you get leak but just to prevent a leak, which would only happen at a screw, is to have the screws replaced before the warranty is up.)
That's my take. I've done a lot of roofing. Take this information or discard it. Hope that helps.
Oh, and metal roofs will fade over time, but will still way outlast shingles for sure.
Edit: @7:16 he shows a ridge cap that appears to have a gap that wind blown rain can get into. Again, this is his sales pitch. That gap you see is caused by a waterproof seal that expands under the metal. That is not, I repeat, that is not a leak.
@7:30 he says standing seam has no seam. If that is the case then why is it called standing "seam"? It absolutely has a seam. That is like saying bacon isn't bacon, or that we are comparing peaches to pairs hear and peaches don't have an acidic citrus value while pairs do. Think about that.
Standing seam vs. Exposed fasteners.
1)I have not done many standing seam roofs. However, they definitely are not fastened to the roof as well as exposed fastener roofs. Exposed fastener roofs are screws down every 6 inches or so horizontally and every two ft vertically. Standing seam is not...and have way less fasteners.
2) exposed fastener roofs do not have a neoprene washer as this guy stated. The washers are made out of EPDM which is a rubber that lasts 30 plus years and is used on full 100x10 ft rolls (weighing in around 450lbs) of EPDM on commercial roofs( big buildings). Exposed fastener metal roofs are durable and also increase the value of the home.
3) exposed fastener roofs are way faster to install. Which costs less in labor.
4) in my opinion standing seam is boring looking. Think of the jeeps that have exposed bolts and nuts and stuff...they look cool as shit. Standing seam looks way less cool.
5) if a tree branch falls on standing seam you have to take the roof off from one side and potentially to the other to replace a panel. That is not the case with exposed fastener roofs. So think about the labor costs on that one.
6)exposed fastener roofs are easier and faster to install. They are easier to repair. Warranty for exposed is around 35 years.
7) if you have a house and getting a roof any of the metal roofs add value to the home. They might just last 50 years. Warranted for 35 for exposed fastener.
Think about that. Talk to more roofers. Then make your decision.
Exposed fastener is cheaper and lasts just about as long. (There is some preventive maintenance that isnt necessary until you get leak but just to prevent a leak, which would only happen at a screw, is to have the screws replaced before the warranty is up.)
That's my take. I've done a lot of roofing. Take this information or discard it. Hope that helps.
Oh, and metal roofs will fade over time, but will still way outlast shingles for sure.
Edit: @7:16 he shows a ridge cap that appears to have a gap that wind blown rain can get into. Again, this is his sales pitch. That gap you see is caused by a waterproof seal that expands under the metal. That is not, I repeat, that is not a leak.
@7:30 he says standing seam has no seam. If that is the case then why is it called standing "seam"? It absolutely has a seam. That is like saying bacon isn't bacon!
@@carcasscruncher9354 ageee with all except the ridge isn’t exposed from sealant, if you’re using a sealant that expands then you’re doing it wrong, standard MS water resistant silicone seal doesn’t expand, the ridge is sitting up because it’s screwed right on both edges causing it to sit in it’s normal bowed position rather than being flattened and then fixed closer to the ridges apex (or the ridge should have been made wider)
Like the ridge underneath has been flattened before fixing.
My corrugated roof was installed professionally just over 27 years ago. I haven't had any leaks with the exposed fasteners.
The instructions for my pole barn ridged steel was to put the fasteners on the ridges to maximize strength, and minimize seepage and weathering. The fasteners had a cup that enclosed most of the gasket when properly torqued. 18 years now, and they stilll look good. Materials from Menards.
Hi. Many thanks for the video. I appreciate the advantage of those clips rather than screws, but it wasn't clear how the next red panel to the right in your video, would be fixed to the structure. Or is it only attached to the first panel with an upturned U-shaped seam ?
Hmm. Have used screws here in S. Calif. on many projects some about 15 years old now with no issues, 110* in the summer, 20-30s in the winter. Some of the projects have housed $30,000-$80,000 worth of astronomy equipment. When installed correctly i feel its a pretty solid system.
I'm sure all he said is true but my only problem with this is there's a lot of old roofs around with old nailed down 5V tin that's 50-100 years old still going strong. But I'm sure standing seem is better but how much better is it really??
They have screws that cover the washer for the corrugated metal roof. You can also put your screws on the high part of the corrugated metal roof (Likely never leak.) Corrugated metal is not usually 29 gauged. 24 and 26 is more common. However the expansion and contraction is a strong point for standing seam. After 10 - 15 years replacing your screws on a corrugated metal is a good idea for maintenance ($ 1,500 - $ 3,000). One can also use purlins (1x4) nailed to roof creating an air gap helping one with insulation and reducing expansion and contraction damage (I do not know about standing seam. To me it came down to cost. I paid about 50% more for my corrugated roof than shingles. I have a 10/12 pitch and it ate my shingles alive. However it was about another 50% increase to step up to standing seem. I'm sure all regions are different with the cost structure. Standing Seems is also better if you want solar in the future. I have a southern looking home in Florida so the corrugated on my 20 acres seem to be a better architectural choice. If money is not a concern, standing seams like a better choice. Florida just overhauled the laws in regards to roof damage complicating the cost benefit of better roofing.
I put a corrugated roof on myself in Fl. also and love it. Make sure to stick to the manufacturers guidelines for screws. Mine had to go in the flats to keep from voiding the warranty.
@@da324 where I'm at the screws on any edge has to go in the flats for wind up lift, but above the roofs edge you can be on top of the corrugated section.
@thomasmoss1066 My manufacturer said two screws on each side of the ridge of the corrugated roof at the top and bottom. Between the top and bottom, they have to be every 12". I put 1x4's on the deck one foot apart under the metal to land the screws. I have an out building I built 20 yrs ago, and that manufacturer said the ridge. Never had a leak on that roof.
So this is a standing seam commercial.
yes. but still 50% correct information though
Agreed. Sounds like a standing seam distribution shill
Yeah this guys Taken the worst case scenarios with one and not the other. I've done both. Just replace the screws every 8 to 10 years. Standing seam is great but has to installed perfect or you have alot of problems. And standing seam isn't cost effective yet. It's the diffrence between 2500$ to 10,000 dollars. Just replace the damn screws every 8 to 10 years done deal.
lol
Why are you not using high temp icewater shield for underlying?
That's good info!! wish I would have known that 10years ago!!
Great video. I refer to it from time to time to get the most important information about standing seam roofs.
I've alwasy been told that on a corrugated roof the screws should always go through the top of the large rib, not through the flat section as in your demo. There's less chance of it leaking if the screw is up on top of the rib.
But then it would not support his narrative.
Yeah,why would you want to put holes in your roof where the water isn't running. The only reason they put the screws in the flat is because it is easy,easy to nail and easy for the water to get in.
@@robertt6292 I want to put holes in my roof to prevent it from blowing off. Concealed fixing is not so robust against high winds.
Every area is different, go with manufacturers instructions for your specific area.
Well said standing seam video i've installed the standing seam metal roofing before they are very easy to install with the right tools
Is it DIY friendly? I just got quoted $14K for standing seam roof versus $7500 for corrugated metal
The other thing that I found out about standing seam is of the metal is flat with no profile in between it has a opportunity to oil can when it heats up. A lot of great info in your video
I took a look a this company's Facebook photos. The standing seam roof I saw was "oil canned" like crazy. There is no way I would accept that workmanship!
A lot of metal rooves are installed without underlayment. That underlayment would seem a good idea to save the wooden purlin and screw connection. I see screws and nails coming free from the purlins due to the moisture of condensation getting caught on the purlins. The resulting rust over time deteriorates the wooden purlin. I haven't tried, but I'd like to see more of the screws inserted through the top of the panel ridges. I'm curious how hammering or screwing the screws affect the surface of the ridges. Would they get mashed or dimpled and cause a water ponding or building up instead of shedding the water? I've observed a surprising amount of water from condensation shed under the roof panels. The type of wood used for purlins might affect the duration of the roof as well.
I always thought you get what you pay for. Not in this case! I went with Hy-Grade roofing even though they were by far the most expensive quote I received. Worst decision I could have made. They promised to install the roof in 4-6 weeks, of course they were late. When they finally showed up without the proper equipment and they damaged my property. They are really proud of the “Quality Audit” that they do, but of course they won’t give you a copy of the audit…lol BTW - the “Quality Audit” they did at my house consisted of 2 guys coming over to pickup the leftover junk they left at my house for a month. They never even went up on the roof! Horrible customer service experience! Save your money use someone else!
Who cares. This is not what this video is about and your experience with the company you hired has nothing to do with this video.
@@wdsracer i care this has made me decide to do it myself so ... now what ?
@@dollyhadbraces9361 so go ahead and do it yourself and let us know how it turned out lol....
I’d like to know how you do the ridge cap/vent?
I want this type of roof on my building.
Great video.
I've picked up some vintage bare galvanized corrugated roofing for a special project. It is THICK STUFF. Occasionally I'll find a replacement piece that is half the thickness.
Awesome info. I am looking into a metal roof and had no idea. Thanks.
Thanks for the teaching. I was ready to to just hire anyone to do my roof. Now I know what to ask for. Either I hire the right roofer or don´t hire anyone.
Late to the game here, but one thing you didn't mention is wind load protection. Down here in south Florida we have to meet Dade County Hurricane wind load specifications. If I'm correct, the standing seam metal roof has the highest wind load protection between shingles or screw-down metal roofs. Thanks
Awesome information! My question is around installation, can standing seam be installed over top of corrugated?
My corrugated roof is now 22 years old and needs an upgrade, we live in the snow belt and usually by mid February the snow and ice builds up on the roof and doesn’t slide off easily, it slowly creeps down because of the exposed screw heads, and the overhang can get to four feet before it breaks off. We are going to replace the roof this summer with standing seam regardless of wither we can go over it or not.
Awesome video, I learned a whole lot, thank you!
very good information. Thank you so much for making this video.
If there is no physical contact between metal roof and clip, what keeps the roof from "sliding" off the roof?
The metal is crimped together after the clips are installed. You can see this at 9:02, also it is typically screwed at the very top of the panel which is covered by the ridge cap and sometimes at the bottom as well depending on how it is installed.
Thx , I found what you refer to as corrugated metal much cheaper and the roof I used it on is twenty years old with no problems...
Thx from Maine.....
I can't believe you're in the roofing industry and you can't screw a roof down properly.
If you screwed the exposed fasteners correctly you wouldn't have the problems you talk about.
NEVER screw in the valley, only on the ridge.
NEVER over constrain the sheet by putting in too many screws (it needs to move, a screw on each side of the ridge is a big no-no)
In Australia we have been using exposed fasteners for decades on corrugated metal roofing. It is a tried and true method in extreme heat and cold.
Even if the washers did deteriorate the water needs to rise above the ridge to even think about leaking.
My own home has exposed fasteners, I've been living in it for over thirty-five years and have not had a leak.
Not saying that 'Standing Seam Roofing' is worse (or better), I'm just pointing out the 'evils' you mention for exposed fasteners don't exist if done properly.
I’m curious about the meaning of valley , are you saying only screw down on ridge sides or are you saying to screw through the ridges on each panel?
You guys in Australia certainly know a lot about steel roofs so I’m interested , very interested.
I need to build in a hot desert 120 F to 30F in Arizona
if you take the time to cut 1by 1 and place them down first whare the ridges will lie, then screw the metal to the 1 by 1 and seal the over lap. just do a little thinking before starting;~
@@utube012341 Hi Tom, I did reply to you a couple of days ago but my comment seems to have gone missing (maybe because I had hyperlinks?????)
To answer your question, think of the roof sheet as a mountain range. The valleys are the low points (the flat of the sheet on the profile shown in the video) and the ridge (or crest) is the top of the rib.
FYI:-Wall sheets are screwed differently to roof sheets.
The manufacturer of the roofing material should provide thorough installation instructions for their product. It's not just about where you put the screws, there are are a number of factors that contribute to the overall performance of any roof. Starting from the base frame up to the type of screws you use and even the type of sealant that is compatible with their product. Try googling "lysaght roof installation manual" as an example of what I'm talking about.
Much work has been done in our cyclone (I think you call them hurricanes) prone areas in Australia and screwed down corrugated metal roofing seems to be the most resilient. If they can withstand the very high wind speeds of a cyclone and not get ripped of or leak then they are good enough for where I live.
Hope that helps and good luck with your project.😀
@@Jack_C_ thank you !!!
I’ll be dealing with high temperatures and winds but not often over 50 mph .
I really appreciate this information as I have taken note of Australian ranch roofs as it seems like a similar climate .
I’m impressed by the huge overhangs , they must provide a lot of sidewall shade
@@strawdog2831 interesting idea thank you
Great, informative videos, thanks. Question, I want to use a couple of corrugated for something else, and I need to flatten out the ridges. And idea, the best way to do that?
Love the background music..class.👍
I have put on standing seam on some condos, the company that produced the standing seam had a dog leg on the receiving seam. No claps just screw into the dog leg.
Comparing these is a little like apples to oranges. There is a HUGE price difference. But no doubt that Standing Seam is the way to go.
@David Vazquez Like he mentioned, corrugated thickness can be as low as 29 gauge which is cheaper. For SS, the labor work is more technical on the flashing.
@David Vazquez I just bought standing seam for a 1500sq ft roof... was $6900 with all metal included and gutters etc. Corrugated would've been 1/3-1/2 that but has to be replaced every 15 years. Standing seam is 60+ years or forever if done properly. Western States Metal has good pricing and really knowledgeable staff... also has a youtube channel thats very informative.
What makes you think corrugated has to be replaced in 15 years? Did some salesman or contractor swindle you?
I didn't read all the comments of others so maybe it was mentioned. But one other MAJOR difference between the two systems is the COST. The corrugated is way cheaper and easier to install for any layman. The sheets come in about 3 foot widths whereas the other is 1 foot. Yes, the seamless is better for all the reasons mentioned in the ad, but corrugated has its application and can be leakproof too if installed correctly.
I’ve re-roofed more standing seam than I have shingled roofs ! Screw down has proven itself time & time again ! I have only gone back to 1 that I replaced all the screws because the owner fed into the hogwash that the screws will leak in another year or two. I did the job & was then told that his steel roof was 25 years old ! I then showed him his screws & 99.999% were just fine & they would not have leaked ! Use the screw down steel people you’ll be happy you did ! btw, all my buildings & house are screwed down & no leaks up here in Montana ... my buddy HAD a standing seam roof & it was ripped right off the first year unfortunately the contractor died of a heart failure but we got the guys insurance to replace it & I put on screw down steel been great up to now @15 yrs !
Thanks for the explanation of differences.....it would be beneficial for you to show how the standing seam panels come together (how they become water tight/water proof)?
Excellent Information. Thank you!
This is what the Director at the Canadian Roofing Association (CRCA) has to say about Hy-Grade: "I will say that I have researched this company - Hy-Grade Roofing - and did not take me long to find several complaints and bad reviews with the BBB (Better Business Bureau). These types of complaints would have been enough for me to pass on this contractor. I see many issues and complaints related to the many ‘Metal Roofing Companies’ who promise the world to the customer, then don’t follow through when it’s time to enforce the warranty or get issues rectified..." Not even the CRCA would use you as a contractor. I invite all potential customer to contact the CRCA before signing with Hy-grade!
I would like to see what a completed roof hem looks like underneath the roof. Thank you
I've done at least 500 corrugated Roofing jobs most of the screws I would guarantee them with the washers to last at least 20 years probably closer to 30 I've done roof 25 years ago in the screws are still fine no leaks
Like you said all metal roofs expand whether screwed or hidden seam they popped out. Just like everything maintain it. If you get a storm good luck depending where you live.
The standing seem roof also conforms to the shape of your roof even if you have underlayment. If you have just the slightest imperfection in the roof, it will show it. They call it oil canning.
No, oil canning is when expansion from the sun causes the metal to arch up like the bottom of an oil can. That's why they call it oil canning. That's why you need striations in the metal to absorb the expansion. Totally flat metal oil cans terribly.
I did not go to the scientific library, rather people I've talked to in the Metal Roofing business, say that they call any expansion and contraction due the sun or weather is "sometimes" referred to as oil canning. However I did look google this "Oil canning is defined as the perceived waviness of a metal panel and is an inherent characteristic of light-gauge, cold-rolled flat metal products. In other words, it's a visual phenomenon that makes metal panels look wavy or somewhat distorted, especially in the broad, flat areas of a metal roof or wall system". I'm not arguing this, it's just an analysis.
@@masshultzy6449 So do I understand that you're pointing out an aesthetic advantage of corrugated screw-down roofing?
On a hot day the clips/brackets on a concealed fix roof can show as dents through the sheets. Not a problem for most.
REALLY appreciate y'all producing this short informative clip, I had wondered WHY I didn't see any screws in these roofs for commercial buildings, HOW MANY of those clips are used in one length?
i appreciate the video very professional. i was hoping you were going to include comparison for sub surface requirements AND A ROUGH COST COMARISON I WOULD LOVE TO INVEST IN STANDING SEAM. I HAVE A HIGH PITCHED ROOF 1932 CEDAR shingles nailed directly to horizontal true 1 x no underlayment. Approximately 30 years ago Asphalt shingles were reroofed on top of existing. No tear off, no sheathing added. The attic height approx 20 ft and 42 wide.Basically a rectangular layout in Southern California, ( snow present in the yard once in 1978). My QUESTION: .If only ridged insulation panels are required and additional horizontal nailers I hoping to save on the traditional costs of wood sheathing underlayment using asphalt shingles. Am I out in left field on this or what.
Thank you for making Great videos
This isn't a comparison of the two systems by an unbiased party. When I saw the fasteners installed in the valleys of the corrugated sheet I could see where this was going. Why would you install fasteners where the water will run? Also, the corrugations allow for expansion horizontally so that problem doesn't apply. For vertical expansion there would only be a difference if the fasteners on standing seam are loose enough for slippage. That seems sketchy. I'd want to see a demo of a fastener marked and shown movement from the mark due to sunlight. Best to check other sources also before deciding what's best for your home/climate/budget.
Definitely gonna put this on my log home
Being able to expand/contract. How would it differ from screwed down corregated panel if the home owner decided to have solar panels installed, that needs to be screwed down to the roof steucture?
Call me skeptical, but since he never compared pricing I suspect the cost of this stuff makes it impractical compared to either corrugated or shingles.
Always good to be skeptical. You are correct, in that the up front cost is significantly higher than the alternatives. Worth noting, though, is that the long term cost is actually cheaper, in that a properly installed standing seam roof will out last 2 or 3 shingle changes. There are standing seam roofs in my area approaching 90 years old and going strong, despite repeated hurricanes and 80 inches annual rainfall. Standing seam roofs are also less likely to leak, leading to lower repair bills, and most insurance companies in my area give a discount for this roof type. Also, if you're considering solar, many systems can clip to standing seam without penetrations. Pay attention to flat vs striated panels, as flat can have big issues with 'oil canning.' Corrugated metal is also good as long as you keep on top of screw/washer changes, right around every 10-15 years or so, depending on climate, as the panels can last way longer than the washers/screws. Maintenance on damaged panels is WAY easier with corrugated. The paint applied is determined by the manufacturer, and not the type of panel as this video might suggest. You can get corrugated with paint just as good as that on standing seam. There are corrugated roofs here in fine shape after 30 to 40 years of service. Proper install is crucial with any roof, or all bets are off. You'll have to do your own math, but in my very rainy, hurricane prone area it makes more financial sense to use standing seam as long as you plan on being in the house for more than the lifetime of one shingle roof. If you're in a dry area, or if you don't plan on staying long term, its probably better to go with the cheaper options. Cheers.
You just got a long explanation. Now I will give you a short one....your wrong on both counts. Just had Standing Seam done and in pricing it was about 25% more than a shingle roof. So is it impractical to install a lifetime (my lifetime) roof, not hardly. I would hate to even imagine a shingle roof done at today's cost and then add that with what the increase in material and labor cost will be on another roof in 25 years.
@@taddmcmichael9061 See, this is the kind of information that was missing in the video.
@@realityquotient7699 Although I will qualify that 25% more price as was in my case. I am sure the price could vary, I received 4 estimates and 3 came from Amish crews (of one I went with) the other a more advertised company and they were more $ by a ways. Standing seam is more specialized work than corrugated steel and those contractors can be farther in between so the pricing can vary with competition. I was also contracted for this spring and metal pricing has gone up considerably since then but so has lumber and shingles so would be hard to say %'s at today's costs.
The clips prevent leaking but not lateral expansion that creates oil canning. This is commonly known in the industry.That's why you want standing seam WITH striations or corrogation in the metal. Otherwise you'll see your roof popping up. Don't get a totally flat paneled roof. Look at other sources on this.
Don't the panels in this vid have striations? They're not as prominent as the ones in the corrugated panel, but they're there. Are you saying that they should be more visible than the ones here?
@@MajorImpact The red standing seam panel he shows doesn't appear to have striations, just ornamental bends for strength. Metal roofing experts say that people have the most oil canning problems with these kinds of flat panels. And what he's saying is incorrect according to them. The seams don't absorb expansion and contraction, the striations do. You actually need some corrogation in the striations - even if just at a very small size to prevent oil canning due to expansion and contraction. The panels need to be able to expand and contract like an accordion. Watch some other experts on here. You'll see what I mean.
@@johnatyoutube I'll do some looking; thanks for the clarification.
Being in the business for over 30 years, to allow your lateral expansion. You do not force the cleat tight to the vertical of the lock on the panel, allow a little bit. Most of the oil canning is caused but screwing the cleat down to tight to the sheathing or insulation. You have to use common sense when installing any metal roof or flashing.
@@funnycardriver Thanks! That totally makes sense and is good to know.
Great comparison and explanation
Have a look at Clip Lock sheeting. Very popular in South Africa.
Steep roof cabins in the mountains do better with standing seam sheet metal roofing as long as there are no valleys in the roof design. The screws holding corrugated sheet metal bend over and eventually tear out over time due to snow buildup, bottom layer ice formation, and eventual migration of accumulated snow/ice down slope. I see this on mountainous area cabins where they get a lot of snow. So called “fat boy” fasteners have been employed to curb bending but eventually even they get worked out where moisture seeps under the screw seal washer, freezes, expands, pulling the screw up bit by bit over time. If a cabin was built where the roof has a valley, neither roofing type will stand up. The ridges of corrugated, and seams of standing seam, sheet metal roofs can allow ice and snow to accumulate massively in the valleys. As thawing commences slope accumulations begin to migrate down slope into the valley of both slopes causing haphazard build-up and creating “glaciers”. These eventually become so large/heavy they overcome the strength of materials and migrate down valley while tearing out/through obstructions in path. Think what ridges and seams of either roofing type do, they act as obstructions, not to slope but to down valley migration. I’ve seen several feet of slope of corrugated sheet metal roofs get mashed/ twist over / torn off in and above the valleys of these roofs. No type of fastener, sheet metal roofing type can stop this type of damage unless the surface is completely smooth or valleys nonexistent.
Very informative video, thanks a lot as I learned very good knowledge on metal roofs
I hear that it is easier to install solar on standing seam, but I would be cautious as to the method used, that they are not drilling into the seam, but using a clamp of some sort to do it.
Thanks for complete information
all this praise on standing seam metal while working out of a building with typical metal building construction. nice.
Maybe he learned the hard way on his oen building
The clip screws will expand and contract as well. How do you address them after some years?
Sales tactic, the screw doesn't go where you placed it, it screws on the highest spot for 2 reasons, one is if the rubber fails the water still won't get in, two, with expansion and contraction the screw can move with it
Combined with Ice guard under the steel. It would last longer than the paint.
Excellent and very informative.
pretty good job over explaining the differences I have been putting metal roofs on since 1977 huge commercial jobs steel mills factories schools churches power plants maybe I'm just lucky but we do not use Amish screws with the little rubber gaskets we use commercial grade screws into Steel I have never had him back out one thing I am curious about he said no screws go into the sheeting on all the commercial jobs I've ever done according to the prince you have to put screws in the top for the sheet and the bottom I did not see this on your sheathing on your standing seam by the way all the commercial sheathing I've worked with I'm standing scene have slide clips so if you didn't pin the bottom and a top everything would slide down hill and if your clips do not slide then there is no expansion and contraction do that roof sheet by the way I have put standing-seam roofs from Florida the Minnesota and literally hundreds of Acres of roof
Obviously this was a sales presentation because you didn't talk about the advantages of the corrugated metal roofing (i.e. cost).
I don't even want to argue if you're right or not, however, there is no need to say everything 2 or 3 or 4 times just to make the video longer.
We never screw down iron roofing through the flat section, always through the raised. Never leaks.
Excellent descriptions!
If the screws are correctly installed to where the gasket does not become totally flattened out when screwed , then the tuff ribbed metal will be just fine and will not back out , if you also used furring strips screwed into you roof joist . The steel is also manufactured warranty with a limited 40 year minimum life on structure and color if properly installed . I love mine and it was 12k less than standing seam , for 32 squares of roof surface with 4 pitch gables and 4 valleys .
how can I do this economically as a DYI project for a patio roof (30 feet X 9 feet)?