Is GR-Research XLS Encore DIY KIT Speaker a Giant Killer? vs Sonus Faber Electa Amator III
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
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Please note that our pair was fully maxed out with all the upgrades and the Copper foil inductors that is no longer available unless you source it yourself (due to supply issues with GR-Research)
GR-Research X-LS Encore (KIT): gr-research.co...
GR-Research X-LS Encore (Finished): gr-research.co...
Sonus Faber Electa Amator III (dealership only): www.sonusfaber...
RELATED VIDEOS:
Full Blind Test Video (2 hours long): • Sonus Faber Electa Ama...
Sonus Faber Electa Amator III: • Why I Might BUY These ...
GR-Research XLS Encore Initial Impression: • GR-Research XLS Encore...
Audio Note System and Vincent: • Why This Pro Musician ...
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Head to squarespace.com/jaysiyagi to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code jaysiyagi
PRODUCT LINKS (non-affiliated):
*Please note that our pair was fully maxed out with all the upgrades and the Copper foil inductors that is no longer available unless you source it yourself (due to supply issues with GR-Research)*
GR-Research X-LS Encore (KIT): gr-research.com/product/x-ls-encore/
GR-Research X-LS Encore (Finished): gr-research.com/product/xls-encore/
Sonus Faber Electa Amator III (dealership only): www.sonusfaber.com/prodotti/electa-amator-iii/
RELATED VIDEOS:
Full Blind Test Video (2 hours long): ruclips.net/video/4y0REd_6UIU/видео.html
Sonus Faber Electa Amator III: ruclips.net/video/yYIAWzSh1pQ/видео.html
GR-Research XLS Encore Initial Impression: ruclips.net/video/qz7hY2J3Blw/видео.html
Audio note and Vincent: ruclips.net/video/jZccjsXEErc/видео.html
Another comparison that I think would be really interesting is the CSS Criton 1-TDX, they are both kit speakers in the same price range
The Criton vs Encore is the ultimate DIY comparison I would like to see. Please Jay!
+1
Absolute big "yes please" on this one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That is the comparison to make
+1 too lol
I've never been more captivated, more excited, to hear each of your perspectives on what you've just experienced. Vincent brings so much to the table given his background and extensive musical experience. I believe he feels the sound and truly knows when a speaker is getting it right. Vincent's insights, I believe, are invaluable in this instance and I am so happy he made the trip and participated. Thank you both for taking the time to share this experience with us. Vincent truly is an entertainer at heart and really makes all of this so much more fun. What a cool guy. Hands down the best review I've ever seen in my life.
The X-LS encore was a $200 production speaker fully built in the mid-late 2000s. This is a budget design. I highly encourage people to check out his updated speakers to get a real taste for what Danny can do. I honestly don’t care that much for SF speakers, usually, or the X-LS Encore line. They’re all fine… but they don’t impress me to the point I’m blown away. It’s always interesting to hear that people enjoy those speakers given my own relationship with them.
Comparisons are tough when you have speakers built with different intentions, price points, and with different frequency responses. This was entertaining.
Really well done review Jay. As someone who owns GR Research speakers I am really impressed with how fair you seem to be given the way this all started.
+1
Is it a fair review ! I would love to see some data of the speakers. Maybe he could send them to Erin’s Audio, then we can see how good they are.
@@r423sdex maybe you ask Erin to reachout to Danny to review the speaker.
Why should Jay ask Erin how he felt about the speakers? Erin can do his own review.
It shouldn't matter how anything started, what matters is the truth and what is real, or not. Everything else is BS.
It seems like the musician prioritizes sound stage over fullness and Jay prioritizes tone and dynamic range over imaging. That the GR research speakers can be so much better at imaging that it is apparent to both of you is quite amazing.
Just wanted to give you some praise for your content it’s advanced so much over the past couple of years, your killing it Jay 🤙🏻
Nicely done Jay. If The XL-S Encore was going to loose to a better speaker, it is good that it costs 10x the price. Hopefully this will help heal the community a bit and get us back to focusing on great sound and products. Thumbs up!
I paid $650 for a completed and basic Encore speaker built with stained birch plywood last year. At that price it blows everything out of the water. A professional woodworker built the cabinets for me for $350 and the other stuff cost $300. I assembled the electronics myself.
I'm watching Jay's channel because of Gary at GR Research and all the great reviews of the XLS Encore so it would be only fitting for a head to head with the CSS Criton 1-TDX.
The CSS is something I recently heard about and I very much want to DIY a speaker system so these 2 companies are at the top of my list.
This blind test was interesting only because comparing a $10K speaker to a $700 and the outcome was (all things considered) very eye opening,
for most of us the Sonus Faber is out of our price consideration, and I think most are also here to see how the XLS holds up to the Sonus Faber out of curiosity.
I think J is keenly aware the the obvious comparison that everyone wants to see is CSS vs GR.
I have the 1td. They are very very nice. I’m working on the -X upgrade now, with the ‘superior parts’ option.
I'm weighing up the same options and maybe the Lii Audio F-15's with the full size open baffles.
Very excited to watch this review Jay! You and your guest did not let down! The quality of your reviews have been improving lately and it's nice to watch. Thanks for the show. Good job 👍
I would love to see some comparisons with Troels Gravesen designs. He works with ScanSpeak and other manufacturers to test new drivers. His kits are sold through Jantzen.
I enjoyed this type A/B testing! To hear the preference and opinions of an "audiophile" and a professional musician is a great idea.
Yeah I loved this format. Having the professional musician was awesome! It’s a better version of “Kristi” from the recovering audiophile, I don’t trust her ears but she does provide some color and interesting varied view points. The Cellist provides the same varied opinions but with an ear you can trust
Great call Jay!!
👍
Great video as always. In my opinion it is not a blind test any more the moment you recognize a speaker by its sound. Still this is a great comparison in my opinion 💪
Looks and Price:
Interesting how they influence our perception of sound quality, even after the fact. Choosing the cheap one 40% of the time, but then the expensive one suddenly became better at everything. And 10x better too.
Just shows how we should admit we like certain esthetics, even over sound quality.
I would be willing to believe the $10k one was better overall. But that's also 10x more expensive. That's not "just twice the price". 10x is a LOT more expensive. Looks like the GR Res did pretty well. 40/60 to an unbiased (haven't heard either previously) listener. I liked the look of the SF better too, it's really well designed visually.
SUGGESTION:
Price and Looks probably should NOT have been revealed to the listener until AFTER the review. Retrograde Bias is a real effect in experiments. Good overall job here though.
Well, the SF in my view is really better overall. If you can watch the 2h listening, I highly suggest to listen the « The red Violine » in my test and « Nils Lofgreen » in Jay’s test. You will understand 😉.
Looks matter 🤷♂️
Being in the trade myself the badge on the front and the higher price tags often cause to the customer to choose those instead of the sound quality!
Love the screen name 👍
Agreed. Or they should have finished the XLS more premium. But the again, it sounded to me like the major difference was the bass. So adding a sub might have changed the game
I think the real competition is the CSS audio kit. That would be a proper apples to apples comparison.
One thing not discussed in a lot of listening tests is the fact that one gets used to the sound of ones own home room acoustics. Therefore, small differences will be more apparent to the homeowner than anyone else. I wonder if the outcome of the double blind test would be the same if Jay took his gear over to Vincent's place ?
Interesting indeed.
Double blind tests are not practical to do. Because double blind means the listener doesn't know the product and the person who swaps the speakers also doesn't know the product. You see how that can get tricky to pull off.
@@E4xtream it’s just audio…it’s all fun. Each person blind listening would vary in their opinion most likely.
An interesting turn-around. I am grateful that you took the time to explore the GR research product and provide fair and useful content on it. I think this will help Danny get beyond coming off as an elitist and do a lot to mend his earlier misrepresentation of himself and his brand. Vincent Bélanger, Wow! What a cool individual. Deepest respects to you both.
He doesn't have anything to "mend his brand and image".
If you watched his video (not just edited snippets) you would know that.
He pointed out problems with under the table reviews for discounts and free gear. And how that biases reviewer, even the ones trying to be fair.
@@onebylandtwoifbysearunifby5475 I derive my concerns on the video I watched on Ron's Channel. I agree, he made excellent points about room interaction, but those points got lost, when he called out perceived deficiencies of the you tube reviewing community. Those concerns I feel he should have addressed with each reviewer privately. If his video was so innocuous it would not had to have been taken down, or generated the amount of backlash that the poor man has had to endure. I disagree with you, that there is no rift that needs bridging. When your post is something that generates so much negativity. I fail to see how that can possibly advance you and your brand, or broaden its appeal. It is my hope, that Danny and GR-Research will garner great success moving forward. I would like to see that his products will be receiving greater consideration based on their merits and not what people thought of his post.
Comparing a 1k product to a 10k product is fair to you? LOL He didnt misrepresent himself or his brand as the XLS Encore are his lower grade of speaker in the GR line up. Yet the XLS held its own against a 10k product. A more fair comparison would be the NX-Studio which is a step up from the XLS but still way cheaper then the S.F.
@@ichigobankai2343 More expensive does not necessarily equate to better performance. Fairness is determined by how the test was conducted and the difference in price was disclosed up front. For the test to be disingenuous would be to pass the Sonus Faber off as a $200.00 budget speaker. That did not happen. I found each item was assessed for what they are.
@@ridirefain6606 at the end, it is « only » music. As a musican, I feel sad how negative comments are generated for … « music reproduction »! I try to stay always positive and happy in my work. And I love our industry! It is not perfect! But it is my passion! Cheers!
Very nicely done.
Thanks for being there for us!
Good job! I bought one of Vincent's CDs at Axpona in 2019. He played his Cello simultaneously with music played in the AudioNote Room. The 2022 Room at Axpona was a big improvement over 2019's room.
Great video Jay! Now for an ‘Encore’ or sorts, please do a comparison vs. the 1TDX. That is the dollar for dollar, DIY match I would like to see!
The XLS is substantially less money.
The next logical comparison then would be a step up model from GR. If you find the Sonus 2.5x better. Compare it to a 2.5x more expensive GR.
Good point 🥸👍
Yup like the NX-Studio or Otica.
If the GR did this well, Jay you should do another blind test with the same SF vs the NX Studio (all maxed out). Then I think we are going to see the GR take the prize money home. $10k vs $3k (fully built). Great job on this one!
Love your work and approach to reviewing GR Research stuffs. It is like watching a good TV series. It has drama and suspense. I can't wait for more stuffs like this.
Vincent is impossible not to like.
I bet filming this you must have had many breaks in filming due to laughing.
The « challenge » is a mix of fun and serious topic. And I like Jay’s vision of our industry! It is easy to keep fun in the hard work! (His devotion is admirable!) 😉
the fact that the GR research kit is compared to a price point way above its srp... is a statement in itself... it all comes down to personal taste and preference... cant go wrong either way. great vid
Well done!!
For me what makes the GR XLS Encore is the tweeter. One of the big problem I find with a lot of speakers today is the tweeter is to hot and to in your face. This make the speaker very fatiguing. Sure you can start to turn knobs but as soon as to do that you start to lose detail. Besides I build all my own gear, DAC Pre, Amp and speakers and I never use any type of tone control.
The music was mixed the way that artist wanted it to sound. As soon as you start to change the tone to can change how the artist wanted it. You will also lose detail, and you can also change it's soundstage as well. It's like going out to eat a fine dinner and you order the meal without the sauce. The sauce is the most expensive thing on the plate and it's what makes the meal. Without the sauce it's just a cooked protein.
Anyway I can listen to my XLS Encores all day. I can't say that about the rest of my speaker collection. Yes I do have some that sound better in different ways but I can't listen to them all day.
Well said!
If you have an extra treble happy speaker and you change the tone to make it more neutral, assuming the tone frequencies align with the hot treble, you're actually bringing it closer to "how the artist intended"
The reason tone control doesn't usually fix tweeter problems is that a tone control is just a shelf filter at some specific knee frequency, while hot treble comes in all sorts of shapes, sizes, dispersion etc.
Of course a well designed speaker should sound good out of the box, but will also respond well to EQ.
Great point of view, however whether or not the music was recorded the way the artist wanted it to sound may be questionable and moot. By the time you listen to it in your environment, all that has changed. The room in particular can have a huge effect on the sound, and it may be necessary to correct for that. I prefer to tweak it to the way I enjoy it most.
Vincent's reaction upon hearing the MSRP of the Amator III was priceless.
His review changed the moment it became an insult to his own ears.
@@lexicon612 nope! This vidéo was for « fun », first! I never felt insulted in any ways! Have you watched the full video?
@@lexicon612
About pricing, it is a part of our industry! And the world in fact. As a classical musician, I always deal with that!
Like a sound system, a 1000$ cello is not made to beat my 200 years old cello! Yes, we could find a very rare exception of course! Then, it is lottery! But entry level, is to tease the high level! Like anything else in this world. The SF was much better! Some tracks: Nils Lofgreen + the Red Violin showed the limit of GR research. I hope the 2 hours video will have sound: you can witness my words.
As I said, GR research are very impressive for the price! So no insult dear friend.
We shall not forget one important thing: all this, it is about music. So it is about beauty, emotions and happiness … and fun!
Cheers and enjoy the music!
@@vincentbelanger5078I’m glad to read you say it is about the music. It’s amazing how many different of these videos I watch where no one talks about music.
The only reason I’m interested in this hobby is to make my music sound better!
Another great review Jay, Thanks. It may put you on the spot, a bit. Criton vs Encore please!!
Nice job, Jay. I think you did a fantastic job in reviewing these two products which appear to be similar, but albeit priced on opposite extremes. Vincent liked the SF because of aesthetics and a bit more in sound, however for $1,000 or $2,000, you could have a very nice carpetner use expensive woods to make it identical or even more pleasing to the eye than Sonus Faber. Save the rest of the money or upgrade the GR Research drivers and you still have a bunch of money to pocket for amps. You guys did a great job in reviewing these products. Keep up the great work.
Thanks! But I prefered SF over all because of some tracks. As I said, some tracks, the difference was huge! (The red Violine, Nils Lofgren, Red handed etc) The aesthetic is important. The sound most important of course.
Yes, some tracks, it was more close … and for the money, GR still impressive!
Good choice to start in this passion!
Danny of GR RESEARCH pulled of this amazing sound with a $40 driver that anybody can afford.
Imagine what he can achieve if he started playing with $150-$250 drivers Wholesale cost.
As for skill level ?. When I went to school in six grade we went to full-blown electrical electronics class with soldering and making circuit boards. we had wood shop and auto shop and metal fabrication shop and art class where you cut glass you cast jewelry and metal etched in glass etched materials. All the way through 12th grade.
So by the time you graduated high school you had six years of taking wood fabrication metal sabotation electronic class in arts using different materials.
So to reproduce a fine piano finish like on a grand piano is child’s play very easy to do. The contouring of wood and fabrication is of a beginner level who just graduated high school there is no high-level skill involved.
It’s only due to the lack of education trade schools that people nowadays think these are great finishes because of the lack of education and skills.
OK exact same looking wood & finish can be applied to the GR Research speaker.
It all in the hands 🙌 of the worker
What school did you go to?
I think both speakers are good products. I love the Sonus craftsmanship and design. I love the GR value. Now can we have a company that can build like Sonus with the leather and quality finish with the GR value? Maybe for $3-4K?
Very nice video. Thanks to both of you for sharing your thoughts!
I think the point a lot of people keep missing is, even though the GR Research kits are very inexpensive...'CHEAP' even...that does not mean they are BAD. The point is, Danny's products, including the X-LS, punch WAY above their weight, metaphorically speaking.
I think you are going to love your trip to GR Research in Texas. Safe travels! 🙂
All of this audio gear “taste” stuff is subjective: the gear, the music, the rooms, the recordings, etc and the individual’s taste ... that is why there are so many choices for so many people to be able to choose ... indeed GR Research is an incredible value ... that one chooses it or not. (Ex. my highest level equipment was: Threshold / Conrad-Johnson / Classe Audio amps, Threshold / Counterpoint / Conrad Johnson pre amps, Meridian / Wadia CDs, VPI / Linn Turntables... and some might not consider that very good but I loved all of those audio gears) !!! 🤠
That’s pretty impressive that a thousand dollar speaker could do so well against something 10X it’s price!
Not really.
Like in any industry price stops becoming an issue when you want the absolute best for a product at a certian budget. Not to mention diminishing returns. Its not a matter of just bang for buck, its bang for buck at a price point. $5 earbuds can play the same music as these speakers. That doesn't mean the $5 earbuds are impressive.
Another example: I need to play games at 4K 60FPS. GPU A can do 4K 50FPS at half the price of GPU B which can do 4K 60FPS. However, it doesn't matter what GPU A cost as it doesn't meet my requirements.
@@DSRT888 Not really? Ok.
@@DSRT888 Everything in this case is subjective. You might prefer the less expensive I might prefer the more expensive and vice versa. You have to take all these reviews with a grain of salt. These kids are young and their ears are BETTER than old people.
How do you know ?
Received a complete finish pair of speakers, extremely well build, or 6 tables of plywood, wires, electronic components a woofer and a tweeter it's not the same thing.
Even they sound good, I can not afford a GR Research Speakers... but I can afford a Sonus Faber.
This is my true!
Is that audiophile duct tape on the blindfold?
Yes. 🤣
We are all in this hobby, all too aware of the hazards of the laws of diminishing returns. The price at which that kicks in, I think largely depends on your enthusiasm for perfection, audio nirvana and your disposable income. I think the 80/20 rule is crucial here. You can buy a pair of speakers which please your listening preference. If you paid 80@% more, you’d get a 20% increase in performance. Is it worth paying that extra 80%? Well, if you have the enthusiasm and disposable income, yes!
So, fully factory assembled, those GR Research speakers cost $1400 as opposed to the 5 times the price $7000 Sonus. Yet in blind testing the Sonus were picked 80% of the time. I think that speaks volumes for the Sonus. As you rightly pointed out, if someone had invested in a pair of Sonus, likely they would be using ‘higher end’ or more price appropriate electronics which would doubtless bring out the ‘higher end’ virtues of the Sonus.
I think it’s a win win situation for Sonus. That is take nothing nothing fron the GR Research speakers. For a more cash strapped audiophile, they’d doubtless make for a very impressive pair of more wallet friendly speakers.
Jay, congratulations man. I am glad you were able to stay objective and above the fray given what has happened recently. Good review. Cheers!
Vincent: "I'm here and I'm very excited about your 'crazy idea'."
5:18 Jay: "Put that on."
Vincent: 😨
The French guy picked the GR Research speaker 🔈 4/10 times but after he learned its price he walked everything back and kept saying “for its price.” Jay you spoiled his opinions as soon as you told him the price.
Haha. Maybe true but I kept him in the dark for too long, he deserved to know at that point. I will reveal price after impressions next time
@@Jayiyagi This is why no test participant should be told anything about price. Brainwashed drones who are subservient to modern society's concept of cash will become less and less truthful when they hear prices.
No, Jay didn’t spoiled me, if I may.
If you remember, beginning of the discussion, we agreed - Jay and I- that for some tracks, the differences was huge! I said before I knew the prices, « Mastering is important! ».
I was indeed surprised of the huge difference in price. And my complete sentence was « very impressive for the price! », and it was! SF, after all, was not beaten in my experience by GR research. How many times the value of GR vs SF should be, I may not be the good one to answer.
Remember, it was a surprise for me!😉
Last thing: I am Québécois, Canada 😇 Not French. 🤩
Great video. Honestly all reviews of all gear should involve blind testing. It does involve a lot more work so perhaps a bit unfair when the videos are free but, I really appreciate this approach, especially when you have courage to include guests. Well done.
Thanks for the Video Jay/Vincent For a informative comparraion .
I'd like to see a review of the NX-Studio monitors. I don't see much out there on these.
Me too! I bet those speakers are just insanely great.
Would be great if you could devise a switching system for instaneous switching between speakers. I've found that this makes a real difference in blind comparisons. Easier to hone in on differences when the switching is instantaneous. No time for hearing memory lag. Keep up the good work! Thanks.
I could not agree with you more, memories are very short on speaker sounds. It is very easy to tell the difference in sound between speakers if you can switch instantaneously. The stereo stores of yesterday used to do this all the time until people were told that the switches were degrading the sound. It is truly the best way to compare speakers. Makes it very easy to compare tonality.
I would love to do that. Not sure how tho as putting speakers in abab or abba compromises soundstage and imaging quite a bit.
@@Jayiyagi Yeah it’s best to do it in the A.B. A.B. it would affect imaging a little bit but it would be a very fair and accurate quick comparison. It makes it so so so easy to compare tonality.
@@Jayiyagi Manufacturers use a rotary switching system, where the speakers are in front and behind. Similar sized speakers cancel out any perceived (imagined) effect of having small boxes directly behind them.
It's a push button system which can easily be mechanized with a motor and Arduino. Or just rotated to a stop pin by hand in less than 1 second.
I totally agree in the UK years ago shops used to have switching boxes then dealers like Linn would only let you to listen to there own products
Well you can throw Jays “blind” test out the window.
Well done sourcing an independent, and yet sophisticated set of ears! Do you think there would be interest to go into different direction, a blind compartment between GR ($700) and sub-$200 speakers (eg. Sony SSCS5)?
...Also, goals: To be that successful to have Jay pay your time by taking you to Korean BBQ
On a side note, owning both, the JBL Studio 220s outshine the Sonys considerably. Paid 98 for Sonys, 140 for JBLs.
Yikes not the SSCS5's. Maybe the JBL 530's @ $240 on sale or the Emotiva B1+ @ $250 or maybe the Diamond 12.1 or 12.2 $500, maybe even the ELAC B6.2 or 5.2 $300
Definitely wanna see how the polks r200’s fare against them. While the xls should be much better it will be interesting to see how well Polk does for a cheaper price
Why would the Xls be much better? Based on what excactly?? The Polks have fantastic measurements and reviews..
@@kevintomb Based on Danny's propaganda that everyone seems to go for. If a youtuber says it's so, then it must be so, right? Even when your opinion goes against much more competent people than you that aren't on YT. That's how YT seems to work.
@@zvonimirkomar2309 based on Danny's propaganda, the RUclips reviewers are not prepare to review her products.
Why should I assume that the XLs sound much better?
@@zvonimirkomar2309 OOh Danny is just some good Used car Salesman. He talks good and has a great line of BS is all.
He made some good points because he seems to have a good understanding of value & quality.
It is difficult to imagine value when one’s income is different. Many people can not easily imagine what it is like to spend $10k as if it were $1k. Two different paintings can use the same canvas and amount of paint and two different violins may have the same amount of elements, however the difference in value can make a massive difference depending on who how and why it was made and who desires it for their own reasons.
I own B&W, Klipsch and others as well as SF Olympica IIs and they are definitely worth the $5k I paid for them new (about 75% off original). Clearly people see “value” in Sonus Faber or they wouldn’t sell. They are a valuable work of art to me beyond their musical value. I also love my pre-owned $100 KG 1.5 and $300 KG 3.2 Klipsch and listening to them is a different enjoyable experience.
I want to see a blind test between the GR-Research XLS Encore and the CSS Criton 1TD-X. For the blind test, the reviewer should not know anything about the two speakers under test (nothing) and not see either until the end. So base it totally on the sound, zero on the looks.
Loved this video! Great concept, great guest. Thank you for making this happen Jay!
Excellent Observations and remarks in this Blind A/B Test. It seems that if you had the GR Research speakers and added a quality sub with it you could potentially have a really nice system for a fraction of the cost of the Sonus Fabers. For some us retirees that is a big deal. 😉👍🏻
Was thinking the same…
@Jay Iyagi, can you compare the GR Research XLS vs the CSS Audio 1TD-X
For the price, you could add a 8 inch and 10 inch sub to the encore. AND sound treatment plates 😊
Good job Jay.
Glad you used the SF speakers for the comp.
After watching this, although it’s not mention or compare to 1DTX. But by knowing how you compared and evaluated this, I think 1DTX still a better choice. 👍
Great Video Jay. The XLS Encore is always a Great Value especially to Hobbyists who want to Dwell in DIY. GR Research has a Great community in Audiocircle that will welcome and help everyone. Godbless.
Frederick
Jay, one thing I learned from reading/watching different reviewers’ reviews of the XLS Encore and others is that their performance steps up differing amounts with better/different gear.
For your own benefit, you might try listening to two different sets of speakers with two different sources (at way different price points) and see how the speakers compare to each other when being fed by different amps/DACs, etc. You might find that one starts to leave the other in the dust as the quality of gear improves.
It would be good Jay if you took the Sonus and the GR speakers with you when you visit Danny .
Great video and we'll appreciated, thanks. Would be nice to compare to unifi reference as well and maybe how they compare once you added a sub to take that criticism out of the equation of them being thin sounding. Maybe it would allow them to shine more comparatively.
Also I've mentioned a few times of this diy speaker, but never know if people read it so I will mention again, diysg helix is prices between the encores and critons, but have exact same impressive bass specs as the critons and cult following. Would be nice to one day see them reviewed/compared by a mainstream reviewer.
Thanks alot for these videos I really like them!
My main takeaway? I want Korean BBQ right now.
Fantastic review. I like where all of this is going, and I can't wait to hear the other comparisons. Vincent is such a cool dude too...hard not to like him!
Wow! Putting the GR Research Encores up against the Sonos Fabers? And, for Danny to even suggest
it???? Now that is ballsy to say the least.
Jay, you do indeed do some very interesting work and this double-blind comparison of these speakers -
(pardon the pun) along with along with Vincent's synopsis - outstanding !
Would like to hear a comparison between the XLS and Sonus Faber Lumina II. Similar prices comparing a pre built XLS for those of us who don't want to DIY.
quantifying quality is tough. another way of looking at it is your guest chose the SFs 6-4, if I had got those results I might say that based on listening the SFs are 1.33x better. of course I didn't factor in the appearance.
I guess that the most substantial difference is the lack of bass punch and deepness that goes in favor of the Sonus Faber.
No speaker sound high end if there is bass missing.
I'd be curious to see how adding a sub or two would have changed the outcome
Their is a trade off. It depends what you want. The only way around the trade off is to have a larger cabinet space.
We’ll…Jay's assessment of the GR drivers is that they are cheap and "can be held by two fingers".
So..with no heavy-duty modern magnets…this is no surprise….is it?
@@bobb.9917 I don't know the drivers parameters so I won't judge. But it seems to be less capable of bass, sure. That doesn't make it a bad driver though. Bass could be better handled by a separate driver (subwoofer).
What I wanted to say is that the preference goes towards speakers with more bass, because we find lack of bass irritating. So it would interesting to see if the outcome would have changed, if bass was provided by a sub or two.
@@ufarkingicehole Sure. But that wasn't my point. I think that such comparison would lean towards the speaker with more bass impact. Hence, I'd be curious to see if the result would have changed with a separate subwoofer
An interesting test would be to build two different systems where the total cost was the same, including subwoofers as both speakers will benefit. Say a total budget of $20k. With the savings made with the GR Research being put into better source and amplification.
In a comparison like this I'm sure the results would be reversed.
Danny helped with Tyler Acoustics Timekeeper speakers. They are considerably more expensive. Is love to see you get your hands on a pair for review.
Sonus Faber is soo much prettier though
Something I'm curious about... Vincent cites, a couple times, that he liked the Sonus Faber better because he thought it was fuller and had a bit more base (I'm paraphrasing). I just checked and the Sonus Faber is rated down to 40Hz while the XLS is rated to 45Hz. I'm curious what the outcome would be if there was a sub added to the mix (same sub for both speakers) so the low-end extension difference is taken out of the picture. Particularly since when the last piece of music was being discussed (the one chosen by the cameraman that didn't have much low-end information) both Jay and Vincent said it was a much harder choice.
I know for myself that if I'm comparing two speakers and one digs lower than the other, I almost always prefer the one that can get deeper.
Wd imagine the SF has a tilted response and possibly a little bump around 350hz range, which gives it that particular characteristic.
A sub isn't going to help a speaker with a lean lower midrange.
It is probably always an issue of "diminishing returns". If you can afford the higher priced components - buy them. But the GR-Research speakers are great for the money spent.
Great blind review.....but once the price was revealed and Jay asks if the Sonus Faber was worth 10X more.....and he says, 'Yes', seems very biased. Then Jay says 2X more. Well, to each his own.
Just opinions… haha
Agreed. Should have asked for his feedback before the price was revealed. Was downhill after that.
@@Jayiyagi Of course, but I hold you in high regard Jay for your reviews, style, honesty, and in comparisons. Thanks for asking him to come from Montreal.
Vincent wasn't just talking about the Sound being 10x better Vincent said the 'Finish' including the Style and build quality of the Sonus Fiber also .
Vincent is correct With some people looks and build quality of the Cabneit matters a lot to them !
'If they can invest more they'll have more' 😆
@@just_some_internet_guy Thanks for your comment and sorry if I looked biased …. I want to add: as a classical musician, I always deal with pricing !
Like a sound system, a 1000$ cello is not made to beat my 200 years old cello! Yes, we could find a very rare exception of course! Then, it is lottery! But entry level, is to tease the high level! Like anything else in this world.
The SF was much better! Some tracks we’ve listened - Nils Lofgreen + the Red Violin - showed the limit of GR research. Huge difference! My answer « yes » was based on that!
The sound of GR research, as I sais multiple time in the video, is very impressive for the price. I tried to be authentic in my answer. Like it or not.
As I always like to promote, we shall not forget one important thing: all this, it is about music. So it is about beauty, emotions and happiness … and fun!
Cheers and enjoy the music!
If I ever decided to upgrade, the Sonus Faber would not even be considered, way too expensive for me, while even the GR would be a stretch. It sounds as if the GR Research would blow away anything in it's price range.
Similarly priced Magnepan like LRS is better than GR Research (more realistic timbre, wider deeper sound stage, more realistic imaging, more delicate micro dynamics, better high frequency extension), if you have the right amplification and the space. I would not to use a phrase like “blow away”. It’s not very helpful or descriptive in describing anything.
How would you know they could blow away other speakers in their price range. I don’t see any data.
Don't be soo quick to judge. The xls are not blowing anything away at all. They're nice and it's nice to support the guy who makes them but this hobby today has a WIDE variety of options and almost all are very good. You may end up rich and buy yourself a pair of sonus fabers.
Nice guy, Vincent. Seems to be very much in touch with what he experiences while listening to the music. Very helpful indeed! Thanks! I AM starting to get curious of the self-build type of loudspeakers. Even though I don't really want to replace my Harbeth speakers..
I would imagine that DIY speakers need to have exceptional value also because I would think that resell value is much lower than well known speaker brands like Sonos Faber, B&W, etc.
I see the list equipment below but on the video it looks like you are using some GATO pieces???
Well done video and comparison. I’m really impressed that the GR Research speaker held its own against a powerhouse like Sonus Farber.
Love his Les 9 ensamble!! Hope they get another disc out soon!
"La" and "conversations" great cello playing.
Jay awesome vid my bud Frederick can be proud
Great review Jay. I love the Sonus Faber speakers.
Take a listen to another great standmount speaker, the Audiovector r1 arreté, it's amazing.
Outstanding! Keep doing these excellent videos. ♥️ Today's stand-mounted speakers from $150 - $15,000 will give you plenty of material!
Always an interesting watch, but.... 60/40 for the SF speakers and yet they are worth 10x the price? They are just over priced. Also SF speakers tend to have a very different sound signature, so are usually identifiable pretty easily. I would expect a speaker that's approved by Danny to be pretty decent, he talks a lot of sense, he also often talks about many speakers being so overpriced. Jay, I like your honesty, love the channel ❤️
Well… for me it’s not so much overpriced because the enjoyment from looking at these beauties and I did personally choose them 10/10.
Jay it ceases to be a blind test when you can identify something because you have heard it before. Your biases come into play even if you try not to allow them.
Yea for people who couldn’t tell/own, definitely kind of self indulgent. And no shame in that!
I agree with Bill.... Anyway something is only worth what somebody is willing to pay for it, so if the set price is accepted, and people are happy for whatever reason it doesn't matter... It's all subjective really:)
Great episode, dude. This was an elite review and comparison. Respect 🙌
How come yall aren't dressed up in black on black on black like the last video lol. It was like yall were giving a tribute to Johnny Cash on that one lol. This was a great video!! Jay, you really are diving into the weeds of this issue and really shining right now! Especially at a moment where the whole GR Research issue really turned people off and divided folks into camps. You made all this into a positive and a learning experience for all of us, on both sides of the issue. You actually brought audiophile peoples together, in a small way, thru these efforts.
Loved it, sounds like maybe I got taken by selecting the R200's but I don't have the technical skills to put that speaker together so maybe I did okay. Love to have your take on this speaker vs. the Polk R200s. Have a good one.
I think the Polks are BETTER than the GR Research. That is most likely why he did not compare them. The Sonus Faber are not all that accurate really.
There is a sense when you hear a better speaker that it reveals more. You get more artistry and better separation and less editorialising. Lesser speakers gloss over key details that give you the sense of realism.
well done. i still am a bit mystified that some reviewers took dannys video in a negative way. maybe because i have no ego or skin in the game ... anyway that was really well done, will def subcribe.
Thanks for the review and for posting your playlist. Love discovering new music.
Maybe it’s in the longer A/B test video, but it would be interesting to see which tracks from the playlist he chose the GR speakers.
Playlist is linked in the description!
Right, but does it say which tracks he picked the GR speakers?
I was shocked when he said this video wasn’t sponsored by GR Research! 😂
Simply said: Nice work!
Howdy, please consider doing ABX testing as a variation vs AB. Especially if you try testing amps or other items that typically are considered to have minor variations(or even no variations). ABX might not work as well with 2 speakers that sound different but it would still be interesting to see you you can correlate them in said ABX.
You had me at kalbi, Jay, the pork branch of gogigui. I'm glad you worked through your conflict with Danny to give his speakers a fair shake.
that's a good review for me because both of you had an independent opinions of both speakers but the 10k price of sonus faber are maybe for the rich audiophile listeners as both of you mention on your comments the difference are not so far far away which mean that gr reasearch speaker ,for me, is a speaker intended for all rich and budget conscious audiophile listeners maybe even for non audiophile listeners who want to hear and experience how hifi speakers really sound.. thanks Danny your speakers was very good for it's
reasonable price
So it's a preference between revealing vs rolled off none fatique ..
The best bookshelf speakera ive heard personally are DALI Rubicon 2. Can you get a hold of a pair for a comparison test.
Love the fact you do blind tests. Some of these simp speaker reviewers that actually have an argument against them. They should say, “I’m afraid I’ll stop receiving free speakers from companies” 😂
Excellent detailed review gentlemen!
Conversations with Vincent Belanger and Anne Bisson is one of my favourite albums.
Thanks! I am really proud of it! Have you tried Pure Cello or Là?
Nice cimparison. Head to head bookshelf.. 🙏🙏
Hey! How about squaring that off against the overly famed "Kef ls50 meta lls" vs the GR research ?!!!
Btw, I just bought the Lumina lls... after a day of break in while I was at work and then hooking up my neighbors Yamaha CA 400 back from the repair shop (new guts and sounds pretty dam good!)... I am soooo in love with what they do!!! I see why you like their sound! Great video, THX for your time with that!