Battlytics is one of my favorite parts of what you do and seeing it grow and improve over the years only makes it better. I'd love to see more short series done in Battlytics such as when you did the three flavors of Urbie in a row, but I'd be even fonder of another tournament if such a thing is feasible. Here's to many more years of content for this franchise we all enjoy so much.
I'm still relatively new to BattleTech, so I'd never heard of this mech, much less this variant. Now I want to try this out as the lynchpin of a Clan star I'm building towards, so thank you for this great Battlytics episode!
Mech dealer slaps the leg of the mech: "Here we have the Mastodon D for 2,961 with a cool long range 100 damage missle cluster strike." Walks down the row: "Next is slightly older Bane 3 for cheaper 2,941 which has a casual 120 damage long range cluster, it has more ammo but no lasers. That's a huge discount off of the Bane 7 you were looking at for 3,740." Walks to the end of the showroom: "Last we have the very rare Turkina Z. Smuggled out of clan space, illegal in every system, it's 4 iATM12 launchers never miss and shoot anything from EMP missles to a blistering 144 high explosive damage. Comes with the best electronic warfare tech the clans ever made and enough space to store every missle you've ever owned. It can be yours for the small price of 3935 BV plus shipping. What do you think?"
The latest wave of IWM mechs, both exclusive and the metal versions of the Catalyst plastics, are with a couple exceptions really great to build and paint. I’ve built 4 Mastodons, and it’s always a pleasant experience.
A beauty of a Mech. 🎉 (I wonder how it'd fare in Override...😅) Also, I'm ever impressed how you get all those cool Battlytics screens coded and running. ❤
Great to watch the Mastodon, although I would have preferred to see the Prime analyzed, but interesting anyways. Surprised that the survivability isn't higher, considering the amount of armor and the reinforced structure. Now I can dream for a Battlytics about the Jade Phoenix, Prime or A. A man can dream, except in the Capellan Confederation. It is illegal there.
You gotta look at the area under the curve. It’s alive way longer than most and has less deaths mid game. But eventually crits are crits. TACs and otherwise. This is why the primary cause of death is engine.
It is interesting to consider that there may be a point where you could have “too much” armor. Like statistically you can only last so long before your head gets nuked, and that is capped at 12 pips.
Are we sure the survivability is right? Im having doubts that the mastadon is very noticably less survivavble then a direwolf. Heck the 90 ton nightstar FC with ISXL has a 90+ survival rate. It feels like simulation is giving a bonus to crits instead of a penalty for the reinforced structure, as 9% death to engine hits alone is almost more deaths then the nightstar has combined.
Also, if you look at mobility loss, most 3/5 assault mexhs have about a 2% mobility loss. The mastadon had double that. If a standard crit roll on a leg has about 61%, it appears the mastadon is rolling a +1 bonus to crits, leading to 1.68 more crits, which matches the 3.7 we see on the mastadon. With -1 to crit RS, you should see less fewer motive from standard, so like 1.2% motive chance compared to the 2% standard.
Yes - from a response to another comment: You gotta look at the area under the curve. It’s alive way longer than most and has less deaths mid game. But eventually crits are crits. It takes 12 turns of sustained fire its going to die from engine crits before it gets cored. TACs and otherwise. This is why the primary cause of death is engine. It’s interesting because “at some point” more armor isn’t going to help.
@@DeathfromAboveWargaming hmmm. Its not alive way longer then most though, right? It survives 81%, but a Direwolf survives 90%, a night star survives 90%, ECT. The mastadon is dying 2x as much, and the mastadon is taking 2x the motive crits. It can't be dying 2x as much as an identical mech with standard structure, and it can't be taking more motive hits then an identical mech with standard/weaker structure. I'd run battlytics again with standard structure instead of reinforced. I bet dollars to doughnuts if you ran the sun with standard structure, it would have ~90, instead of ~80 survivability, indicating the sim isn't calculating crit rates on reinforced structure correctly.
@DevianID I can look. The number is the % survivability at turn 12… I agree it seems off, but I know the code is correct. Will take a closer look when I can.
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Reinforced messes with things like your ammo crits too. Ammo might occupy 45% of the hittable location but where a standard chassis needs an 8 (42%) to get the crit roll, a Reinforced chassis needs a 9 (28%).
I've always liked the idea of missile boats, but lets just say my experience with them and roles on chart damage tables is why I tend to play the wubwub instead...😆
Good mech in any configuration. I would consider Semi-Guided LRMs and Kobold IIC Battle armor or NARC from the Odin Recon Vehicle to compact NARC. Good video.
"It only has upper arm actuators, so you can arm flip and fire off 4 LRM-15 launchers..." It would not surprise me if this is a reason why we have not seen a BatRep with Thom for a while. Aaron waddling around with his DISTRACTION CARNIFEX causing all sorts of trouble. Can you imagine seeing this thing trundle around with its arms windmilling LRMs all over the place?
I've just finished painting one of these, planning to run it with 4ton of LRM15 Infernos, has a chance to overheat the enemy enough for single turn self det as it's ammo goes boom (60 LRM tubes firing Infernos is a potential 120 heat applied in 1 turn I don't think there is anyway to sink that in one turn)
@@Avtarangel Try the Mastodon C. Three Plasma Cannons. Law of 2D6 means it will keep its targets at about 14 heat every turn in addition to Gauss Rifles and PPCs.
I like the new chart. I think this would be a better mech if you took off an LRM-20 and a ton of LRM-20 ammo, then added Artemis V FCS to each launcher and one more DHS.
It is a response to complaints about modern Clan Mechs mostly using Artemis. Naked launchers make better use of exotic ammo. Also there is a generation of Rasalhague Dominion NARC carriers in ilClan.
@@jellico1238 Makes sense. I've never been a fan of NARC but maybe it works for someone. Still, I hate having weapons I can't fire due to heat. I've never seen this mech's data sheet. How much, if any, open slots are left?
@@knightmarethe1st First up, the Mastodon D has no crits free. The Medium Pulse were absolutely necessary to use up the weight/crits. The LRMs produce 32 heat (4 x 5 + 2 x 6), with 15 Double Heat sinks. Obviously this thing is meant to sit there and throw LRMs. Clan LRMs so no minimum range. If you are using the MPLs there is a problem. The unbalanced ammo is interesting. Eg you could have gone 12 per launcher. But it means there are 12 rounds per launcher of standard ammo, then two tons of LRM15 exotics like mines, inferno, or smoke. Note standard could be NARC, or Semi Guided or Swarm. Stuff you can fire as normal most of the game. The two big complaints with Artemis are ECM and indirect fire. ECM is obvious and the Word of Blake era left a lot of Mechs in the game with ECM. Artemis ammo can be used for indirect fire but loses its bonuses. So, there are mixed feelings about it. With Clan LRMs you can get similar amounts of firepower out of Artemis IV, V, Streak, or naked with a bit of shuffling. Though in terms of raw firepower Artemis V works best for min-maxing a LRM Mastodon.
@@jellico1238 I got to play with FASCAM's some. Loved using them. Made a mech with 16 LRM 5's. Surrounding the opposition works wonders to drop that movement mod. lol
My understanding was that Clan mechs only get free CASE when it has Clan Endo internals. Reinforced (IS or IS mixed btw) means it loses the free CASE. It was also my understanding that Reinforced Internals was -2 to critical confirmation rolls.
I dont think LRMs are a good choice for the civil war-heavy ilclan era. This is a Ghost Bear mech who have already had one civil war between the Joiners an Deniers. What if the battle happens in your hometown? The splash damage from the lrms might destroy your own house! You could find yourself the only mech in an infantry battle as the workers drag you into their own conflicts. Worst case your own lancemates unexpectedly turn their guns on you and you would have to use those long-range missiles at melee range In the hands of Clan Hell Horse this mech would be great as there is a need for a heavy hitter and no shortage of spotters for indirects. But in a faction with a recent history of internal strife this is entirely the wrong mech to use
Battlytics is one of my favorite parts of what you do and seeing it grow and improve over the years only makes it better. I'd love to see more short series done in Battlytics such as when you did the three flavors of Urbie in a row, but I'd be even fonder of another tournament if such a thing is feasible.
Here's to many more years of content for this franchise we all enjoy so much.
‘Mastodon D’ was my nickname in high school.
😂😂😂☠️ you never disappoint my friend
I'm still relatively new to BattleTech, so I'd never heard of this mech, much less this variant. Now I want to try this out as the lynchpin of a Clan star I'm building towards, so thank you for this great Battlytics episode!
It's a very new mech for the universe. As a Ghost Bear fan, I'm a big fan of it.
Mech dealer slaps the leg of the mech:
"Here we have the Mastodon D for 2,961 with a cool long range 100 damage missle cluster strike."
Walks down the row:
"Next is slightly older Bane 3 for cheaper 2,941 which has a casual 120 damage long range cluster, it has more ammo but no lasers. That's a huge discount off of the Bane 7 you were looking at for 3,740."
Walks to the end of the showroom:
"Last we have the very rare Turkina Z. Smuggled out of clan space, illegal in every system, it's 4 iATM12 launchers never miss and shoot anything from EMP missles to a blistering 144 high explosive damage. Comes with the best electronic warfare tech the clans ever made and enough space to store every missle you've ever owned. It can be yours for the small price of 3935 BV plus shipping. What do you think?"
This new ilKhan tech is crazy. Also loving the updated graphics Mr. Aaron. Looks fantastic. Thanks!
The latest wave of IWM mechs, both exclusive and the metal versions of the Catalyst plastics, are with a couple exceptions really great to build and paint. I’ve built 4 Mastodons, and it’s always a pleasant experience.
ilClan mechs lets goooooo!
Digging the visual updates! That Mastadon is a beast, I'd know. So much damn armor and pain.
I would love to see the Mastodon Prime. It has has more firepower than the LRM boat.
I just painted up an Iron Wind mini of the Mastodon. I'm looking forward to trying it.
A beauty of a Mech. 🎉 (I wonder how it'd fare in Override...😅) Also, I'm ever impressed how you get all those cool Battlytics screens coded and running. ❤
Anything with Mastodon in it has me sold
Great to watch the Mastodon, although I would have preferred to see the Prime analyzed, but interesting anyways. Surprised that the survivability isn't higher, considering the amount of armor and the reinforced structure.
Now I can dream for a Battlytics about the Jade Phoenix, Prime or A. A man can dream, except in the Capellan Confederation. It is illegal there.
You gotta look at the area under the curve. It’s alive way longer than most and has less deaths mid game.
But eventually crits are crits. TACs and otherwise. This is why the primary cause of death is engine.
@@DeathfromAboveWargaming I see, that makes sense. That's the think about Battlytics, a lot of details to look at. Love it. Keep the good work!
It is interesting to consider that there may be a point where you could have “too much” armor.
Like statistically you can only last so long before your head gets nuked, and that is capped at 12 pips.
@@DeathfromAboveWargaming That makes me think of how more durable it would be with a torso cockpit.
Nice!!
Are we sure the survivability is right? Im having doubts that the mastadon is very noticably less survivavble then a direwolf. Heck the 90 ton nightstar FC with ISXL has a 90+ survival rate. It feels like simulation is giving a bonus to crits instead of a penalty for the reinforced structure, as 9% death to engine hits alone is almost more deaths then the nightstar has combined.
Also, if you look at mobility loss, most 3/5 assault mexhs have about a 2% mobility loss. The mastadon had double that. If a standard crit roll on a leg has about 61%, it appears the mastadon is rolling a +1 bonus to crits, leading to 1.68 more crits, which matches the 3.7 we see on the mastadon. With -1 to crit RS, you should see less fewer motive from standard, so like 1.2% motive chance compared to the 2% standard.
Yes - from a response to another comment:
You gotta look at the area under the curve. It’s alive way longer than most and has less deaths mid game.
But eventually crits are crits. It takes 12 turns of sustained fire its going to die from engine crits before it gets cored.
TACs and otherwise. This is why the primary cause of death is engine.
It’s interesting because “at some point” more armor isn’t going to help.
@@DeathfromAboveWargaming hmmm. Its not alive way longer then most though, right? It survives 81%, but a Direwolf survives 90%, a night star survives 90%, ECT. The mastadon is dying 2x as much, and the mastadon is taking 2x the motive crits. It can't be dying 2x as much as an identical mech with standard structure, and it can't be taking more motive hits then an identical mech with standard/weaker structure. I'd run battlytics again with standard structure instead of reinforced. I bet dollars to doughnuts if you ran the sun with standard structure, it would have ~90, instead of ~80 survivability, indicating the sim isn't calculating crit rates on reinforced structure correctly.
@DevianID I can look. The number is the % survivability at turn 12… I agree it seems off, but I know the code is correct. Will take a closer look when I can.
@DeathfromAboveWargaming Reinforced messes with things like your ammo crits too. Ammo might occupy 45% of the hittable location but where a standard chassis needs an 8 (42%) to get the crit roll, a Reinforced chassis needs a 9 (28%).
It'd be interesting to pit the Clan LRM Assault Mechs against each other and see how they fare. The Mastodon D, Tomahawk II C, Viking IIC, and Bane 3.
I've always liked the idea of missile boats, but lets just say my experience with them and roles on chart damage tables is why I tend to play the wubwub instead...😆
Good mech in any configuration. I would consider Semi-Guided LRMs and Kobold IIC Battle armor or NARC from the Odin Recon Vehicle to compact NARC. Good video.
"It only has upper arm actuators, so you can arm flip and fire off 4 LRM-15 launchers..."
It would not surprise me if this is a reason why we have not seen a BatRep with Thom for a while. Aaron waddling around with his DISTRACTION CARNIFEX causing all sorts of trouble. Can you imagine seeing this thing trundle around with its arms windmilling LRMs all over the place?
I miss Thom.
@@sebastiang.5032 I miss Thom as well...
2:27 An implacable... pachyderm?
When the answer to "Do I have enough missles" is no.
The answer to "Do I have enough missiles?" Is always "no."
Ain't no chonky mech like a Ghost Bear mech!
I've just finished painting one of these, planning to run it with 4ton of LRM15 Infernos, has a chance to overheat the enemy enough for single turn self det as it's ammo goes boom (60 LRM tubes firing Infernos is a potential 120 heat applied in 1 turn I don't think there is anyway to sink that in one turn)
Additional external heat caps out at 15 in total per mech.
Lol pure evil.
@@heavypoint2770 just found where it says that 😮💨 that sucks
@@Avtarangel Try the Mastodon C. Three Plasma Cannons. Law of 2D6 means it will keep its targets at about 14 heat every turn in addition to Gauss Rifles and PPCs.
Looks like a really cool mech! Wonder how it competes with other lurm mechs.
What does the gray shaded area in the survivability chart show? Should it be a scatterplot instead?
I like the new chart. I think this would be a better mech if you took off an LRM-20 and a ton of LRM-20 ammo, then added Artemis V FCS to each launcher and one more DHS.
It is a response to complaints about modern Clan Mechs mostly using Artemis. Naked launchers make better use of exotic ammo. Also there is a generation of Rasalhague Dominion NARC carriers in ilClan.
@@jellico1238 Makes sense. I've never been a fan of NARC but maybe it works for someone. Still, I hate having weapons I can't fire due to heat. I've never seen this mech's data sheet. How much, if any, open slots are left?
@@knightmarethe1st First up, the Mastodon D has no crits free. The Medium Pulse were absolutely necessary to use up the weight/crits.
The LRMs produce 32 heat (4 x 5 + 2 x 6), with 15 Double Heat sinks. Obviously this thing is meant to sit there and throw LRMs. Clan LRMs so no minimum range. If you are using the MPLs there is a problem.
The unbalanced ammo is interesting. Eg you could have gone 12 per launcher. But it means there are 12 rounds per launcher of standard ammo, then two tons of LRM15 exotics like mines, inferno, or smoke. Note standard could be NARC, or Semi Guided or Swarm. Stuff you can fire as normal most of the game.
The two big complaints with Artemis are ECM and indirect fire. ECM is obvious and the Word of Blake era left a lot of Mechs in the game with ECM. Artemis ammo can be used for indirect fire but loses its bonuses. So, there are mixed feelings about it. With Clan LRMs you can get similar amounts of firepower out of Artemis IV, V, Streak, or naked with a bit of shuffling. Though in terms of raw firepower Artemis V works best for min-maxing a LRM Mastodon.
@@jellico1238 I got to play with FASCAM's some. Loved using them. Made a mech with 16 LRM 5's. Surrounding the opposition works wonders to drop that movement mod. lol
Sounds like an overturned Longbow.
But is the Mastodon D bettern than the Mastodon Prime?
C-LRMs good, hehe.
My understanding was that Clan mechs only get free CASE when it has Clan Endo internals. Reinforced (IS or IS mixed btw) means it loses the free CASE.
It was also my understanding that Reinforced Internals was -2 to critical confirmation rolls.
Reinforced Structure gives a minus 1 on determine critical hits roll (BT manual, page 117). No limb blown off or 3 crit hits possible.
Suck it Nova Cat B
I dont think LRMs are a good choice for the civil war-heavy ilclan era. This is a Ghost Bear mech who have already had one civil war between the Joiners an Deniers. What if the battle happens in your hometown? The splash damage from the lrms might destroy your own house! You could find yourself the only mech in an infantry battle as the workers drag you into their own conflicts. Worst case your own lancemates unexpectedly turn their guns on you and you would have to use those long-range missiles at melee range
In the hands of Clan Hell Horse this mech would be great as there is a need for a heavy hitter and no shortage of spotters for indirects. But in a faction with a recent history of internal strife this is entirely the wrong mech to use
"you would have to use those long-range missles at melee range" Fortunately, Clan-tech LRMs have no minimum range penalties!
Less talk, more mecha. This all looks good, but the talking head isn’t doing it.