Just getting back into pickleball after a few years and I'm really enjoying these videos. I went out and practiced a drop serve today and was amazed how much more top spin and consistency I was getting.
I'm a new (and quite fanatical) player. I don't understand! I thought you couldn't throw the ball in the air at all while serving. How is that new serve at the end of the vid legal? Whaaaaaat?
Like "Hungary" said below, the biggest advantage of the drop serve is that you can get more speed and spin on the serve by standing well back of the service line, leaning forward and dropping the ball as far in front of you as possible and then taking a full step -- or two! -- into the ball as you wind up your swing. Then it's just like hitting any slow-coming forehand from the baseline. Handball and racquetball servers try to do the same, but they can't start as far back, because it's a foot fault for them to start their motion behind the back line of the service box. Pickleball has no back service line -- except a fence that might be back there.
Helpful video! A lot of people have wrong impressions about the rules. I would edit out the last part due to the 2023 rule change. I saw you commented to someone else that you put a note on the video, but while watching, i didnt notice it (i didnt look back, but im sure others might miss it, too). Thank you!
I just automatically used the drop serve when I started playing - I was totally unaware what it was called but am told I have a house and it lands and sometimes spins -but I’m unaware of why it does that, & I’m not complaining !
Not sure if what you said about foot placement is exactly right? New 4.a.2 The moment the ball is served: • at least one foot must be on the playing surface behind the baseline • neither of the server’s feet may touch the court on or inside the baseline • neither of the server’s feet may touch outside the imaginary extensions of the sideline or centerline. And 4.A.8.A The rules for feet placement (4.A.2 and 4.L) still apply I don't see 4.L in the change document which is what I'm looking at, but I take these to mean you can take a big step forward on to the court as long as you don't actually land in the court until after you strike the ball? That's what I've been doing with both types of serves. Thanks for the video.
Yes, Jeff, I guess technically one foot can be off of the ground, during contact. Although to easily avoid this, you should have both feet planted behind the baseline at contact. Using momentum on your serve is crucial, which is why most players with aggressive serves end up in the court after the serve.
A friend showed me the chainsaw serve last Wed. and LOVE'N it!!! On a side note, I thought Morgan Evans was doing the finger spin on his serve as well? Anyway, love these new serves...;-)
Morgan Evans is the one who first came up with the last serve shown here. Sorry but credit is where credits due :-) Thank you for making this video! I learned something I didn't know before :-)
Morgan did start the “extremely high toss” serve. Kudos to him. Although Zane is the one who made this “spin” serve popular. Just like the Erne shot. Erne was not the first to do this, he is just the one who made it known.
@@primetimepickleball Morgan used pre spin before Zane; recorded at the pro level so he should get the credit. There is something to be said about first use of a skill especially when it has been caught on video.
Just started play about a week ago love this sport so far I always thoght you it was boring I was wrong very fun and energetic hope I can be half as good as you guys in the future and tonight I’m gonna try impress my buddies here with this new spin serve lol 😂
Appreciate the lesson here. I've not used the drop serve yet as I feel more comfortable hitting it from the hand but I'll give it a try. One question - you do a good job of outlining the three key rules of the serve, but I've often heard that the serve cannot be from the "side", meaning your paddle must come up and not across. Someone once used the image of a bowler bringing their hand "up". Any thoughts on that dimension of side vs. under? Thank you for the insights!
On the drop serve you do not have to hit from low to high. Because of this you can impart heavy slice on the drop serve since you can contact on a downward trajectory. On the traditional serve you must still hit low to high.
I needed this video! I have been searching for certain serving rules and some advanced serving techniques. I already have been doing a spin serve and some of the other shown in this video, but never knew if they were legal. Thank you guys for all of your videos and help!
Don't forget the 10 second rule from the time you announce the score until the ball has to be contacted! You pick it up and start again - that's in the 10 seconds
Everything except you can no longer toss the ball with spin imparted from your hand or imparted with the use of the paddle. So the serves at the end are now illegal.
Jordan. I am just a beginner. Have enjoyed your educational video. Your definition of propel. It appears that on new serve#6 that 1st, not dropping it, but propelling forward w the spin. What u say. Thank Tim
Hey Tim! Not sure which serve you are talking about. Remember, if you’re hitting the drop serve, you can’t propel the ball in any way. If you hit it out of the air as a traditional serve, you can toss, throw, or spin it any way you want!
@@primetimepickleball Now that's interesting. I never knew for the traditional serve you could do that. Now I have some new toys to work with in my backpocket to practice for an upcoming tourney or two
Great video Jordan! Question - do the rules for the new drop serve negate the rules for the standard serve? Meaning, do you still need to hit the ball below your waist for the standard serve, etc.?
yes, you still have to hit the ball below your waist on the standard serve. The rules for the standard rules are not at all changed from what they were before the drop serve came in.
I use the double bounce sometimes for fun but if you fake out or deceive your serving motion hasn't that always been against the rules? I vaguely recall reading about it in rule book.
I think the drop serve should be mandatory. Just like the new rule to play "let" serves removes doubt about whether the ball actually touched the net, if the drop serve were mandatory, there would be no controversy about whether the server obey all three "serving rules" because those rules would no longer apply.
i know this is obvious but because the traditional serve didn't change and new "drop" serve changed everything I wondered since this language wasn't included in the 2021 rules (about being struck without bouncing) whether the old serve had changed as well. TY!
@@primetimepickleball with regards to the traditional serve is there any guidance on the release? Can I toss it in the air as long as I follow the other criteria?
So now that the "toss up spin" drop serve has been made illegal in 2023 does that mean you shouldn't use it when playing just for fun for fear of getting called out by your opponents?
BFF fi j K m d g m C N Ii Deng even in an kk B m Jim Illini Aww I’ve fun ugh it My dry j m c My b e du mom My red My w bd My edgy Ii N d N My n axe B m m I
You DO NOT have to let it bounce. You can hit it out of the air. Just keep in mind the rules mentioned in the video when you do that. I.e below naval contact etc…
Great info here! I didn't know any of it about the drop serve or the regular serve. The people that taught me to play just said it has to be below the belly button. Made me realize a good majority of the people I play with do illegal serves! haha. A few question on the Navratil Serve. I get the concept behind the serve. Just wondering on the practicality of it. Do you notice that much more kick, or would you say it's negligible? Also, how much spin are you imparting on the ball on the toss? Like is it just a gentle spin to just get the ball spinning a little, or are you trying to get as much spin as you can on the toss?
If you don’t have a good serve without spinning the ball, then you shouldn’t be trying it out. Now if you have a great serve already and you can hit it consistently, this is something you can try out. You may not be able to tell in the video, but I’m putting a LOT of spin on the ball. Actually I’m putting the most that I possibly can. Like I say in the video, it does affect the ball off of the paddle, and is something worth experimenting with.
@@primetimepickleball yes! I'm still working on the regular serve. So, will be a while before I try this outside of practice. Was just curious about the mechanics of the Navratil serve. The one thing I can see myself doing is messing up the toss and hitting above the navel. haha.
When you said you had a new serve, I was honestly expecting to see a serve I used to practice. I would basically throw the ball down as hard as I could. The timing is a bit weird but I got it down. I found that you have to twist you hips and start your swing before you slam the ball down. I don’t think it’s worth trying to explain the technique right now, but there’s a way to keep the motion fluid and consistent. I never really did it in doubles because the extra speed (if any) isn’t worth the extra effort and risk. What are your thoughts on all of these serving rules? Do you think it would be better (even just at the highest level) if you could serve however you want? You can still use underhanded serving rules for certain age groups or during casual pick up games, but I think faster serves would be more exciting for spectators.
The game is getter faster, and it will continue to do so. I think the simplest rule would be an underhand serve, hitting the ball below your waist, with no restrictions.
@@primetimepickleball I personally think there should be no restrictions at the highest level. Not even serving underhand below the waist. But I'm guessing that's not a popular opinion.
With a drop serve, you are allowed to hit with a high to low motion so you can hit heavy underspin with it. With a traditional toss, you must swing low to high so heavy underspin is not possible. Some people find it easier to hit off the bounce. It doesn't give you any more or less spin or speed otherwise, that's all about your swing. If you watch pro tournaments, none of the pros use the drop serve.
@@primetimepickleball your advice is most appreciated . Merry Christmas to your and your wife. If you don’t mind me saying this, sometimes she looks like a more fordable player than yourself. 🤣🤣👍🙏
As of 2023, can you still legally drop the ball in the court when performing a drop serve? I was recently told I must drop the ball outside of the court on the drop serve.
The "spin" servers you demonstrated at the end are traditional serves not drop serves, correct? I see your hand motion moving the ball upwards which would be a fault in a drop serve. Such a game changer.
I believe the chainsaw serve should be illegal because contact is made with the ball twice, once by rolling the ball of the paddle for the spin, twice when striking the ball over the net.
If you hit it directly out of your hand (no bounce), you CAN propel it into the air before contact. If it's a drop serve (bounce), you can not propel it.
@@primetimepickleball Thanks. I cannot tell though. Can anyone tell? If you use an upward stroke, along with wrist rotation? If it were after the ball left the paddle then I don't think we could account for the topspin. I think I am turning my wrist as I address the ball. I would have to have someone video it and then play it in slow-mo.
Word play, or changing, altering or manipulating a traditional meaning or ordinary understanding of a word to suit ones purpose is a very common practice. Remember "alternate facts"? Before you start criticizing me and making derogatory comments please do the following. 1. Check several dictionary definitions of "drop" or "to drop". 2. Give a ball or some other item to 10 friends or family and ask them to "drop" the item. Observe and track how many propel the item upwards, spin or no spin, as a component of "the drop". This is a simple experiment to learn what people understand as the "ordinary meaning" of drop. Once you've done that report back and we'll have a discussion.😁
@@primetimepickleball Hi Jordan and you did make that differentiation. What I'm trying to get across is if the ordinary understanding of drop does not include propelling an object upward or forward, which I suggest it doesn't, then is the new serve that you demonstrated a drop? If you agree that it isn't then it would appear that serve would be illegal under the new rules. Thoughts anyone? Just asking.
@@primetimepickleball I believe the video needs a transition segment where you state that the new serve you are working on is a variation of the traditional serve. Like me, a number of people still have drop serve on the brain when you move on to the alternative serve. It took me a moment to catch on you were switching back to variations of the traditional serve.
As long as you have a stationary object; a rolling or spinning object can drop from it. Spin a jack on a table with a little sideways motion will it drop off the ledge? Yes. Same goes for any object rolled across it. To be concidered a drop the ledge must be stationary. Same goes for a paddle face.
The topspin serve is a volley serve, not a drop serve, so was legal at the time the video was created. Since 2023 rule changes though, both the chainsaw and the topspin serve are now illegal.
I'm a beginner but am a little confused. In 5:28 you'd said a drop serve cannot be tossed or propelled. Correct? If so, does the new toss or topspin toss not controvene the rule? Please explain. Am I missing something here?
You can no longer impart spin with your hand in 2023. If you're going to hit the ball out of the air from your hand you CAN propel the toss up. If you're going to let the ball bounce and then serve (drop serve), you CAN'T propel the toss.
Not really. Some player's throw it in here and there to give their opponents a different look but biomechanically, you can do more with a forehand drive serve if you know how.
Pro and Senior Pro divisions of PPA events will NOT allow the "chainsaw" serve, or the drop serve, or no-let serves (they are keeping let serves in the game). They are taking a "Pause" from these new rule changes as they gather more feedback and see what impact the new rules have on the pro game. However, since the APP events are USAP sanctioned, they will be playing by the new 2021 rules.
I thought you aren't allowed to propel the ball upward? So am I assuming that you can propel it upward with spin but yet hit it below the waist? Looks kind of sketchy... so the LET doesn't stop play anymore or lose serve?
I see this video was shot a year ago. Are these “rules” for the drop serve still the same now in August 2022? I’m new to PB and get confused with all of the changes. Thanks!
Everything in this video is still legal today EXCEPT for the chainsaw serve at the very end. That is now banned. Also, spinning the ball with your hand only is still allowed in many tournament settings but it is banned on the PPA tour.
So in theory would the bounce serve into court area no be the first court bounce in rally.? So receiving team takes bounce 2 and now serving team no longer needs to let bounce before 3rd shot.
at 3:16 you stated that both feet need to be behind the baseline at the time of contact. that is incorrect. one foot needs to be touching the correct area (and no incorrect areas), but the other foot can be OVER (not ON) any of the "incorrect" areas ... including hovering above (but not touching) the playing surface.
I also couldn't get up fast enough to return the next shot! So, on the fifth serve, I notice the ball actually follows your hand upwards a bit, then drops a little as you stroke the ball. Is that still legal? Isn't this like propelling the ball upwards? Not criticizing, just asking! Thanks and great video on this serve.
You can propel it up on the traditional serve. You have to let it drop from your hand on the drop serve. No propulsion. Seems to me it's dropped on all the drop serves. Not sure I'm seeing what you are on the serve.
I’ve watched several of these drop serve videos that state both feet must be behind the line. I’ve read the rules and that’s not what I see. It says one foot must maintain contact with surface behind the baseline and neither foot can contact the ground in front of the baseline. 4a4b. You can have a foot or arm over the baseline just don’t touch the ground before all contact is made with the paddle and keep one foot behind the line on the ground. Am I missing something?
Hi, is sounds to me that there are only two rules regarding serves. 1. You still cannot place your feet on the court, and 2. You still cannot serve into the kitchen; other than that; anything goes. Is that correct?
There are 2 different serves with 2 sets of rules, which does make it confusing. The drop serve rules : ruclips.net/video/N43DwVEZoqk/видео.html The traditional serve rules: Serve below waist during contact Paddle below wrist during contact Swing with an upward motion
@@primetimepickleball, okay, yes, thank you. Listening and watching these videos, I seem to still need some clarification; I can be waiting for a serve, and my opponent can stand there and allow the ball to bounce more than once, or bounce and catch the ball with no limit to the number of bounces or catches, and restarts, before they actually complete the serve? Yes? Thank you
Hi Jordan & PrimeTime PB! Loved the video and the clear explanation! One question about the old serve if you can answer: I think I'm able to put underspin on the ball by staying within the 3 rules, as I start from the ground level: 1) below my waist 2) paddle below my wrist 3) hit up on the ball... as long as I follow these 3 rules it's ok correct? I'm playing my first tournament in a couple weeks and I don't want to be doing something incorrect...thanks again
I thought you could not toss or throw the ball, it had to be dropped? So putting a spin seems to be illegal. Not sure though, just going by what was said in video. Thanks Robert
It’s seems to me the less rules the more fun it is. Pickle ball has some traditional basic rules that r easy to follow. R we now adding new rules that instant replays plays a determination such as new serve rule. Just a thought
@@primetimepickleball I am a67 y/o male that has played sports my entire life. There will always be a Bill Belichick that will stretch the good intentions of a rule
@@primetimepickleball I'm going to try to watch the 6-hour long youtube video that covered the Florida Grand Slam over the week-end...I'll let this group know if I see some!
@@jacobphillips1285 Hehe, thank you for the reminder...I like it when someone holds me accountable ;) The answer was "none". I did since then watch another couple of RUclips videos of pro-level tournaments and only saw one (male) player using the drop serve for more than half of his serves. He was not one of the very best, but he was not a newbie either, in the pro division :) If I can find the video/player, I'll share...no promise on that one though, as it was a while ago :)
@@jacobphillips1285 I found it. This video, match starting around 38 minutes into the video. Player using the drop server is AJ Koller (#9 in the world as of today's ranking): ruclips.net/video/tn72agzRswo/видео.html
Good tips Jordan! Wondering if anyone here has experience with an Oliver-Sport paddle? any thoughts ?
Hi, I think there is a new rule when having a standard serve, spinning the ball before the serve is forbidden. Thanks for the video.
You are correct. I added a note to that effect at the top of the description.
Thanks for the video. Got in an argument with some old timer during a game about the new serves and this video really came in handy.
Just getting back into pickleball after a few years and I'm really enjoying these videos. I went out and practiced a drop serve today and was amazed how much more top spin and consistency I was getting.
Awsome !
I'm a new (and quite fanatical) player. I don't understand! I thought you couldn't throw the ball in the air at all while serving. How is that new serve at the end of the vid legal? Whaaaaaat?
@@primetimepickleball 5:32 I'M CONFUSED. THE LAST SERVE ( THE SPIN ONE YOU LEARNED ) I THOUGHT YOU COULDN'T PROPEL THE BALL UPWARDS ???
@@tbforester you can't on a drop serve but you can on a regular serve
Like "Hungary" said below, the biggest advantage of the drop serve is that you can get more speed and spin on the serve by standing well back of the service line, leaning forward and dropping the ball as far in front of you as possible and then taking a full step -- or two! -- into the ball as you wind up your swing. Then it's just like hitting any slow-coming forehand from the baseline. Handball and racquetball servers try to do the same, but they can't start as far back, because it's a foot fault for them to start their motion behind the back line of the service box. Pickleball has no back service line -- except a fence that might be back there.
Yes, it is easier to get power while stepping in.
This changes the game big time. Those serves were nasty!
🤙🏼😎
Serving from the ad side, hit the ball 10 to 15 feet high toward the centerline with a strong clockwise so it lands close to the sideline.
@@randyzeitman1354 A serve in the kitchen is not legal.
@@sbom Opps, right.
Helpful video! A lot of people have wrong impressions about the rules. I would edit out the last part due to the 2023 rule change. I saw you commented to someone else that you put a note on the video, but while watching, i didnt notice it (i didnt look back, but im sure others might miss it, too). Thank you!
Good point! Thanks for the feedback.
I just automatically used the drop serve when I started playing - I was totally unaware what it was called but am told I have a house and it lands and sometimes spins -but I’m unaware of why it does that, & I’m not complaining !
This was VERY helpful. Thank you for sharing
Jordan, you now have to develop the "hidden dragon" serve. I like your "crouching tiger" style though.
🐉 😎
Not sure if what you said about foot placement is exactly right?
New 4.a.2
The moment the ball is served:
• at least one foot must be on the playing surface behind the baseline
• neither of the server’s feet may touch the court on or inside the baseline
• neither of the server’s feet may touch outside the imaginary extensions of the
sideline or centerline.
And 4.A.8.A
The rules for feet placement (4.A.2 and 4.L) still apply
I don't see 4.L in the change document which is what I'm looking at, but I take these to mean you can take a big step forward on to the court as long as you don't actually land in the court until after you strike the ball? That's what I've been doing with both types of serves.
Thanks for the video.
Yes, Jeff, I guess technically one foot can be off of the ground, during contact. Although to easily avoid this, you should have both feet planted behind the baseline at contact. Using momentum on your serve is crucial, which is why most players with aggressive serves end up in the court after the serve.
A friend showed me the chainsaw serve last Wed. and LOVE'N it!!! On a side note, I thought Morgan Evans was doing the finger spin on his serve as well? Anyway, love these new serves...;-)
😎 🤙🏼
Morgan Evans is the one who first came up with the last serve shown here. Sorry but credit is where credits due :-)
Thank you for making this video! I learned something I didn't know before :-)
Morgan did start the “extremely high toss” serve. Kudos to him. Although Zane is the one who made this “spin” serve popular. Just like the Erne shot. Erne was not the first to do this, he is just the one who made it known.
@@primetimepickleball Morgan used pre spin before Zane; recorded at the pro level so he should get the credit. There is something to be said about first use of a skill especially when it has been caught on video.
Love your videos. You go out of your way to explain your point in a variety of ways. Thanks, much appreciated.
You’re welcome!
yooooooo, am try to go practice some cheeky corner slice severs now
Just started play about a week ago love this sport so far I always thoght you it was boring I was wrong very fun and energetic hope I can be half as good as you guys in the future and tonight I’m gonna try impress my buddies here with this new spin serve lol 😂
Nice! yeah, once you jump in, it's a lot of fun.
very nice......like the new standard options....will give it a try....Ty
🤙🏼
Great information about the drop serve. Thank Jordan.
👍🏻
Appreciate the lesson here. I've not used the drop serve yet as I feel more comfortable hitting it from the hand but I'll give it a try. One question - you do a good job of outlining the three key rules of the serve, but I've often heard that the serve cannot be from the "side", meaning your paddle must come up and not across. Someone once used the image of a bowler bringing their hand "up". Any thoughts on that dimension of side vs. under? Thank you for the insights!
On the drop serve you do not have to hit from low to high. Because of this you can impart heavy slice on the drop serve since you can contact on a downward trajectory. On the traditional serve you must still hit low to high.
I needed this video! I have been searching for certain serving rules and some advanced serving techniques. I already have been doing a spin serve and some of the other shown in this video, but never knew if they were legal. Thank you guys for all of your videos and help!
You’re welcome Devin !
Don't forget the 10 second rule from the time you announce the score until the ball has to be contacted! You pick it up and start again - that's in the 10 seconds
Thanks!
Thanks for this video. Do all of these still apply to 2023 drop serve rules?
Everything except you can no longer toss the ball with spin imparted from your hand or imparted with the use of the paddle. So the serves at the end are now illegal.
Wow!!! Love this a lot! I am sharing this!
Thanks!!!
Great info. This could really frustrate some people that have been playing for awhile :) Thanks!
No problem!
4:51
HAHAHA!
That is brutal!!
💪🏻💪🏻
Jordan. I am just a beginner. Have enjoyed your educational video. Your definition of propel. It appears that on new serve#6 that 1st, not dropping it, but propelling forward w the spin. What u say. Thank Tim
Hey Tim! Not sure which serve you are talking about. Remember, if you’re hitting the drop serve, you can’t propel the ball in any way. If you hit it out of the air as a traditional serve, you can toss, throw, or spin it any way you want!
@@primetimepickleball Now that's interesting. I never knew for the traditional serve you could do that. Now I have some new toys to work with in my backpocket to practice for an upcoming tourney or two
Thanks for your clarification
No problem!
Thanks, you’re the best!
You're welcome!
This video opened up a whole new world for me
Awesome!
Love it! Thank you !
😎
Can you add a link to the rules which explains these changes? There has been some contention in our club regarding this. Thank you and love the video@
usapickleball.org/docs/ifp/USA-Pickleball-Rulebook.pdf. See Rule 4.A.6 for the drop serve rules
A very cool serve, well done!
👍🏻
Great video Jordan! Question - do the rules for the new drop serve negate the rules for the standard serve? Meaning, do you still need to hit the ball below your waist for the standard serve, etc.?
yes, you still have to hit the ball below your waist on the standard serve. The rules for the standard rules are not at all changed from what they were before the drop serve came in.
@@primetimepickleball Thanks Jordan 👍
Good vid, would be useful to insert a text note pointing out that the spin serve is now illegal in 2023.
Thanks for the tip!
The spin TOSS is illegal. The spin serve is okay.
Nice serves!
I use the double bounce sometimes for fun but if you fake out or deceive your serving motion hasn't that always been against the rules? I vaguely recall reading about it in rule book.
That would be up to the referee’s discretion.
best video yet Jordan !
Thanks! 😎
I thought players can no longer impart any spin to the ball before the paddle strikes it?
You’re correct! Some rule changes were made after the release of this video.
I think the drop serve should be mandatory. Just like the new rule to play "let" serves removes doubt about whether the ball actually touched the net, if the drop serve were mandatory, there would be no controversy about whether the server obey all three "serving rules" because those rules would no longer apply.
Good tips!
😎
Your new serve, I thought you are not aloud to toss the ball upward. Please clarify. Thanks.
You can toss it as high as you want as long as you hit a volley serve. (hit out of the air, no bounce)
Drop serve is for me and it's not even close. Easy to place the ball where I want and can really hit it at the apex of the bounce with a ton of power.
It’s great that you found what works for you.
Ok you blew mind with the new serve. In particular the toss. Can I let the ball bounce with the traditional serve?
If you drop the ball and let the ball bounce, it’s a drop serve.
Here’s a video on drop serves:
ruclips.net/video/N43DwVEZoqk/видео.html
so actually another criteria for the traditional serve was that the ball must be struck without bouncing.
i know this is obvious but because the traditional serve didn't change and new "drop" serve changed everything I wondered since this language wasn't included in the 2021 rules (about being struck without bouncing) whether the old serve had changed as well. TY!
@@primetimepickleball with regards to the traditional serve is there any guidance on the release? Can I toss it in the air as long as I follow the other criteria?
Yes you are correct. With the traditional serve, you can toss it any way you want, as long as you meet all the 3 legal criteria.
So now that the "toss up spin" drop serve has been made illegal in 2023 does that mean you shouldn't use it when playing just for fun for fear of getting called out by your opponents?
I wouldn't recommend using it anymore since it's outside the rules unless they've agreed to it. I wouldn't just spring it on them out of the blue.
I didn't know all this about the new serve. If I did the crouching tiger, I would not get up again!
BFF fi j K m d g m C N Ii Deng even in an kk B m Jim
Illini
Aww I’ve fun ugh it My dry j m c My b e du mom My red My w bd My edgy Ii N d N My n axe B m m I
Nice!
Does the ball after being dropped have to hit the court surface first and bounce or can you hit it out of the air ?
You DO NOT have to let it bounce. You can hit it out of the air. Just keep in mind the rules mentioned in the video when you do that. I.e below naval contact etc…
Great info here! I didn't know any of it about the drop serve or the regular serve. The people that taught me to play just said it has to be below the belly button. Made me realize a good majority of the people I play with do illegal serves! haha.
A few question on the Navratil Serve. I get the concept behind the serve. Just wondering on the practicality of it.
Do you notice that much more kick, or would you say it's negligible?
Also, how much spin are you imparting on the ball on the toss? Like is it just a gentle spin to just get the ball spinning a little, or are you trying to get as much spin as you can on the toss?
If you don’t have a good serve without spinning the ball, then you shouldn’t be trying it out. Now if you have a great serve already and you can hit it consistently, this is something you can try out. You may not be able to tell in the video, but I’m putting a LOT of spin on the ball. Actually I’m putting the most that I possibly can. Like I say in the video, it does affect the ball off of the paddle, and is something worth experimenting with.
@@primetimepickleball yes! I'm still working on the regular serve. So, will be a while before I try this outside of practice. Was just curious about the mechanics of the Navratil serve. The one thing I can see myself doing is messing up the toss and hitting above the navel. haha.
When you said you had a new serve, I was honestly expecting to see a serve I used to practice. I would basically throw the ball down as hard as I could. The timing is a bit weird but I got it down. I found that you have to twist you hips and start your swing before you slam the ball down. I don’t think it’s worth trying to explain the technique right now, but there’s a way to keep the motion fluid and consistent. I never really did it in doubles because the extra speed (if any) isn’t worth the extra effort and risk.
What are your thoughts on all of these serving rules? Do you think it would be better (even just at the highest level) if you could serve however you want? You can still use underhanded serving rules for certain age groups or during casual pick up games, but I think faster serves would be more exciting for spectators.
The game is getter faster, and it will continue to do so. I think the simplest rule would be an underhand serve, hitting the ball below your waist, with no restrictions.
again, isn't that propelling the ball down?
@@primetimepickleball I personally think there should be no restrictions at the highest level. Not even serving underhand below the waist. But I'm guessing that's not a popular opinion.
Liked the new drop serve.
Some players really benefit from letting it bounce.
What is the advantage in a drop serve. Does it give you more speed or more spin or both.
With a drop serve, you are allowed to hit with a high to low motion so you can hit heavy underspin with it. With a traditional toss, you must swing low to high so heavy underspin is not possible. Some people find it easier to hit off the bounce. It doesn't give you any more or less spin or speed otherwise, that's all about your swing. If you watch pro tournaments, none of the pros use the drop serve.
@@primetimepickleball your advice is most appreciated . Merry Christmas to your and your wife. If you don’t mind me saying this, sometimes she looks like a more fordable player than yourself. 🤣🤣👍🙏
As of 2023, can you still legally drop the ball in the court when performing a drop serve? I was recently told I must drop the ball outside of the court on the drop serve.
As far as I know you can still drop it in the court. It's just that your feet have to be behind the line.
Question: so you can toss the ball and wait for it to drop before hitting it? Just can't hit it on the upward trajectory?
If you are tossing the ball, you have to hit with an upward motion, contact below the waist, and have the paddle below your wrist during contact.
If you toss it, you have to hit it before it bounces.
The "spin" servers you demonstrated at the end are traditional serves not drop serves, correct? I see your hand motion moving the ball upwards which would be a fault in a drop serve. Such a game changer.
Yes, traditional, it didn’t hit the ground.
Yes traditional, it didn’t hit the ground.
I believe the chainsaw serve should be illegal because contact is made with the ball twice, once by rolling the ball of the paddle for the spin, twice when striking the ball over the net.
on the last serve, arent you propelling the ball up? is that legal?
It’s legal because it was hit directly from the toss, there was no bounce.
Just saw this video curious how the new serve w/ the spin isn't considered propelling the ball, since you're throwing it up and not dropping it.
If you hit it directly out of your hand (no bounce), you CAN propel it into the air before contact. If it's a drop serve (bounce), you can not propel it.
Is it legal in traditional serve for the paddle head to end above the wrist as part of the hit, ie topspin?
As long as it’s below the wrist during contact, it’s legal. After contact, it doesn’t matter.
@@primetimepickleball Thanks. I cannot tell though. Can anyone tell? If you use an upward stroke, along with wrist rotation? If it were after the ball left the paddle then I don't think we could account for the topspin. I think I am turning my wrist as I address the ball. I would have to have someone video it and then play it in slow-mo.
Yes you would have to slomo it. This is why it’s impossible to tell real time.
Word play, or changing, altering or manipulating a traditional meaning or ordinary understanding of a word to suit ones purpose is a very common practice. Remember "alternate facts"?
Before you start criticizing me and making derogatory comments please do the following.
1. Check several dictionary definitions of "drop" or "to drop".
2. Give a ball or some other item to 10 friends or family and ask them to "drop" the item. Observe and track how many propel the item upwards, spin or no spin, as a component of "the drop".
This is a simple experiment to learn what people understand as the "ordinary meaning" of drop.
Once you've done that report back and we'll have a discussion.😁
Paul, I don’t think anyone is arguing what the definition of “drop” or “propel” is. I think I made that pretty clear in this video. 😊
@@primetimepickleball Hi Jordan and you did make that differentiation. What I'm trying to get across is if the ordinary understanding of drop does not include propelling an object upward or forward, which I suggest it doesn't, then is the new serve that you demonstrated a drop? If you agree that it isn't then it would appear that serve would be illegal under the new rules.
Thoughts anyone? Just asking.
The new spin serve at the end is under the “traditional serve” category, which is why the 3 criteria to a legal serve still apply.
@@primetimepickleball I believe the video needs a transition segment where you state that the new serve you are working on is a variation of the traditional serve. Like me, a number of people still have drop serve on the brain when you move on to the alternative serve. It took me a moment to catch on you were switching back to variations of the traditional serve.
As long as you have a stationary object; a rolling or spinning object can drop from it. Spin a jack on a table with a little sideways motion will it drop off the ledge? Yes. Same goes for any object rolled across it. To be concidered a drop the ledge must be stationary. Same goes for a paddle face.
Now I am confused. I saw a video showing the spin with your fingers but they also said that it was illegal. ??? Yes or no?
The topspin serve is a volley serve, not a drop serve, so was legal at the time the video was created. Since 2023 rule changes though, both the chainsaw and the topspin serve are now illegal.
You can't spin the ball with your hand as of 2023. You can still put spin on the ball with your swing motion.
I'm a beginner but am a little confused. In 5:28 you'd said a drop serve cannot be tossed or propelled. Correct? If so, does the new toss or topspin toss not controvene the rule? Please explain. Am I missing something here?
You can no longer impart spin with your hand in 2023. If you're going to hit the ball out of the air from your hand you CAN propel the toss up. If you're going to let the ball bounce and then serve (drop serve), you CAN'T propel the toss.
Can you jump while hitting a drop serve after the ball bounces?
No, you have to have one foot down behind the baseline before you make contact an all serves.
What about the backhand serve? Is it worth it? Any benefits?
Not really. Some player's throw it in here and there to give their opponents a different look but biomechanically, you can do more with a forehand drive serve if you know how.
question about that new serve, I thought you couldn't toss the ball up? Please clarify Thanks.
You cannot propel the ball up in the area when using a bounce serve. You can when you are doing a traditional serve.
Thank you for your answer 😊
Pro and Senior Pro divisions of PPA events will NOT allow the "chainsaw" serve, or the drop serve, or no-let serves (they are keeping let serves in the game). They are taking a "Pause" from these new rule changes as they gather more feedback and see what impact the new rules have on the pro game. However, since the APP events are USAP sanctioned, they will be playing by the new 2021 rules.
Yep, it’s going to be interesting!
If you are spinning the ball you are adding downward force (propelling), which is a fault, right?
Only on a drop serve. On a traditional serve, you can toss or spin the ball any way you would like.
I thought you aren't allowed to propel the ball upward? So am I assuming that you can propel it upward with spin but yet hit it below the waist? Looks kind of sketchy... so the LET doesn't stop play anymore or lose serve?
On a drop serve you can’t propel the ball, on a TRADITIONAL serve, you can propel the ball any way your want!
Also with that chainsaw serve is that not essentially dropping ball off of your paddle which you can't do with either serve?
Under 2021 rules, you can drop the ball off of your paddle and then serve it. (Covid friendly rule)
@@primetimepickleball Nice! Great job on videos, thanks!
redo or redit to get the chainsaw version out of that last serve
Thanks for the feedback. We added a note to the top of the description.
Aren’t you propelling upward on your upward toss in the spin serve?
Yes, although I’m hitting it out of the air, so it’s legal.
I see this video was shot a year ago. Are these “rules” for the drop serve still the same now in August 2022? I’m new to PB and get confused with all of the changes. Thanks!
Everything in this video is still legal today EXCEPT for the chainsaw serve at the very end. That is now banned. Also, spinning the ball with your hand only is still allowed in many tournament settings but it is banned on the PPA tour.
@@primetimepickleball thanks for clarifying!
Great
👍🏻
You forgot the best drop serve technique - a backhand side spin drop serve. My favorite!
Your last spinning serve it won’t be permitted in 2023, right?
Right.
Is it a let if your server hits the net first?
Currently, you play “let’s”. The rule got changed last year, but it can get changed again. We’ll have to wait and see.
I drop the ball from below my knee height. Works quite well.
Interesting…so you prefer the low contact point.
@@primetimepickleball - Yes, I find it quite effective. Some day I will expand into backhand, too.
I fail to see how the "toss" or propel of those serves is not illegal. Did that rule get removed from the rules this year?
You can propel it on a traditional serve. Just not on a drop serve.
So in theory would the bounce serve into court area no be the first court bounce in rally.? So receiving team takes bounce 2 and now serving team no longer needs to let bounce before 3rd shot.
2 bounce rule applies the same way every time. Serve bounce does not count.
at 3:16 you stated that both feet need to be behind the baseline at the time of contact. that is incorrect. one foot needs to be touching the correct area (and no incorrect areas), but the other foot can be OVER (not ON) any of the "incorrect" areas ... including hovering above (but not touching) the playing surface.
Yes this is correct, thanks.
I also couldn't get up fast enough to return the next shot!
So, on the fifth serve, I notice the ball actually follows your hand upwards a bit, then drops a little as you stroke the ball. Is that still legal? Isn't this like propelling the ball upwards? Not criticizing, just asking!
Thanks and great video on this serve.
You can propel it up on the traditional serve. You have to let it drop from your hand on the drop serve. No propulsion. Seems to me it's dropped on all the drop serves. Not sure I'm seeing what you are on the serve.
Isn't the spin serve you do illegal because you propel it upwards when you spin it with your hand? Legal would be spinning without the initial toss up
You can propel upwards if you hit it out of the air after your toss. All spin on a toss is now banned.
Where are those courts
Concord, CA
I’ve watched several of these drop serve videos that state both feet must be behind the line. I’ve read the rules and that’s not what I see. It says one foot must maintain contact with surface behind the baseline and neither foot can contact the ground in front of the baseline. 4a4b. You can have a foot or arm over the baseline just don’t touch the ground before all contact is made with the paddle and keep one foot behind the line on the ground. Am I missing something?
I think you're right.
@@primetimepickleball first time ever!😂😅
Can you let the ball bounce, fake a swing and then hit it on the 2nd bounce?
Yes, just like I show here.
Hi, is sounds to me that there are only two rules regarding serves. 1. You still cannot place your feet on the court, and 2. You still cannot serve into the kitchen; other than that; anything goes. Is that correct?
There are 2 different serves with 2 sets of rules, which does make it confusing.
The drop serve rules :
ruclips.net/video/N43DwVEZoqk/видео.html
The traditional serve rules:
Serve below waist during contact
Paddle below wrist during contact
Swing with an upward motion
@@primetimepickleball, okay, yes, thank you. Listening and watching these videos, I seem to still need some clarification; I can be waiting for a serve, and my opponent can stand there and allow the ball to bounce more than once, or bounce and catch the ball with no limit to the number of bounces or catches, and restarts, before they actually complete the serve? Yes? Thank you
Yes. Although they only have 10 seconds to serve.
@@primetimepickleball Ahh, that's the missing piece, and one that I need to share with a fellow pickler...thank you!
It looks like your foot is off the ground when your paddle makes contact with the ball.
That's allowed.
Hi Jordan & PrimeTime PB! Loved the video and the clear explanation! One question about the old serve if you can answer: I think I'm able to put underspin on the ball by staying within the 3 rules, as I start from the ground level: 1) below my waist 2) paddle below my wrist 3) hit up on the ball... as long as I follow these 3 rules it's ok correct? I'm playing my first tournament in a couple weeks and I don't want to be doing something incorrect...thanks again
If you can follow all those rules, it’s legal. Maybe record yourself serving and watch it back just to make sure.
@@primetimepickleball t
that legal :) ??
in tournament ?
Yes, drop serves have been legal in 2021 and it's just been announced that they will remain legal going forward.
That looks like a projected serve to me. The last one your friend showed you. Just my thoughts
Projected?
I thought you could not toss or throw the ball, it had to be dropped? So putting a spin seems to be illegal. Not sure though, just going by what was said in video. Thanks Robert
@@twiliteside He's making contact prior to the ball hitting the ground so drop serve rules would not apply.
The “spin” serves I show are hit out of the air, not as a drop.
Could this spin ball serve be considered propelling the ball?
You can propel, as long as it's not a bounce serve. Propelling on a traditional serve is ok.
Can you drop the ball with the palm up?
Great question. I'm not totally sure but I don't see why not. As long as it just drops out of your hand.
Are you allowed to toss the ball up in the traditional serve like you did in the new serve?
No, you have to drop it. No upward propulsion.
It’s seems to me the less rules the more fun it is. Pickle ball has some traditional basic rules that r easy to follow. R we now adding new rules that instant replays plays a determination such as new serve rule. Just a thought
The sport is constantly evolving, just as all sports do. We’ll leave that up to the rule makers!
@@primetimepickleball I am a67 y/o male that has played sports my entire life. There will always be a Bill Belichick that will stretch the good intentions of a rule
So on the traditional serve, are you allowed to toss the ball up? I thought that was not legal. So then how is Zane’s serve allowed? Thanks!
With the traditional serve, you can toss the ball as high as you want!
Thank you. I’m new to PB since Nov and your videos have been SO helpful.
I thought you said you can't "propel" the ball, up or don on a serve, So you new serve is not allowed?
On traditional serves. You can propel the ball in any way.
The last serve wasn't dropped in the video - it looked "propelled" upward so doesn't look like it meets the criteria.
It wasn't a 'drop' serve. It didn't hit the ground before he hit it. It's a variation on the traditional serve.
Mark is correct.
The last serve you’re working on looks like you are propelling it upwards
The last serve was hit directly from toss (no bounce) so propelling is ok.
Waiting to see if any other pros use it in tournament play.
Me too!!
Hey that chainsaw serve looks awfully familiar! 🤣
Hey, I gave you a shoutout! 😁
@@primetimepickleball You did indeed 👊🏽
Are the pros (or high-level amateurs) starting to use them in tournaments?
Some are, but the majority are not.
@@primetimepickleball I'm going to try to watch the 6-hour long youtube video that covered the Florida Grand Slam over the week-end...I'll let this group know if I see some!
@@sbom well??
@@jacobphillips1285 Hehe, thank you for the reminder...I like it when someone holds me accountable ;)
The answer was "none". I did since then watch another couple of RUclips videos of pro-level tournaments and only saw one (male) player using the drop serve for more than half of his serves. He was not one of the very best, but he was not a newbie either, in the pro division :) If I can find the video/player, I'll share...no promise on that one though, as it was a while ago :)
@@jacobphillips1285 I found it. This video, match starting around 38 minutes into the video. Player using the drop server is AJ Koller (#9 in the world as of today's ranking): ruclips.net/video/tn72agzRswo/видео.html
Spin is now an illegal serve?
You can hit with spin. You just can’t toss the ball with spin imparted by your hand.