What did you think of the US army’s attempt at camouflage uniforms in Europe during ww2? Do you think they could have done anything better to make the trial successful? Welcome back! If you are new here make sure to hit subscribe to expand your knowledge on Military History and join the growing Premier History Community!
It would have no doubt worked out better if they gave it to everyone instead of just some. That would have prevented confusion. Of course it would have probably been impractical to replace all the uniforms at once under the circumstances, so it would have needed to be done earlier. On a side note, it's really stupid that the army has all this camouflaged gear but don't have camouflaged guns. The black weapons stand out rather noticeably against the uniforms.
@@dwaneanderson8039 The military tried camouflaging M16 rifles. The problem is they are very difficult to find if you lay them down or drop them or prop rhem against a tree in the jungle or forest. Believe me, soldiers and Marines lay their rifles down, or drop them, or prop them way more than one might imagine.
I am currently 0:40 seconds into the video, and honestly. The US European army uniforms already looks camouflaged. It blended in well the the terrain, unlike in the Pacific theatre where the USMC camouflaged uniforms were needed so to more tropical islands like Peleliu, Saipan, Guam and much more.
The US army did use (green) camo uniforms in Europe in WW2, it was just not very sophisticated (though definitely better than 19thC uniforms). I did learn something from your video though, thanks
I have not yet seen the video but I will make a point. Camo uniforms were not used by the western allies post D-Day because the Waffen SS used camo uniforms. And not just one pattern but several. One common pattern used by the Waffen SS were uniforms and smocks made from material captured from the Italians (who used the pattern well after WW2). They were trying to avoid unfortunate friendly fire incidents.
This actually reminds me of why the U.S. military adopted the Brodie helmet in WWI despite developing a better helmet during field trials. Besides the Brodie design already being in circulation and to better fit in with the allies, the alternate design resembled too close to the German Stahlhelm helmet and risked friendly fire.
@@sunshineskystar Well yeah. But they didn't have to fight the germans anymore. So no danger anymore to mistake them for enemy troops just because of the helmet. PS: I actually googled what kind of helmet the Iraq Armed Forces were using during the Gulf War. The so called Iraqi M80 Helmet. Designed and manufactured in South Korea by Hyundai. Ironically it looks like an US M1 Helmet. Must have been quite weird for american soldiers. Now the people with "Nazi Helmets" were friendlies. The ones with "M1 Helmets" were the baddies. Good thing they had very different uniforms. The Major difference between the M1 Helmet and the Iraqi M80 Helmet was that the M80 was made out of Canvas coated with Plastic instead of Steel. Yes you heard that right. They used an helmet which was mostly made out of the same material backpacks and shoes are made of. (basically they wore a bycicle helmet that looked like an M1 helmet) The reason for that? They were cheap. Those poor fucking bastards. Going to war with a bycicle helmet.
@@sunshineskystar I've heard the US field equipment designers have always liked the German Stahlhelm design but weren't able to use it for obvious reasons. Once enough time had passed they quickly adopted a modernized version.
@@kurttate9446 That's not 100% what happened. They told a group of engineers what they wanted and the design they came up with looked similar to the Stahlhelm.
@@erwin669 To a degree that’s true,but the modern designers didn’t start thinking about it the day they got the order. Designs percolate, often over many years. The idea of the stahlhelm was certainly in everybody’s mind (after all it’s a very famous design). I’ve read or been told (I don’t remember which or when) that we, long ago, saw the merits of the design, but historic circumstances prevented us from basing a new helmet design on it until sufficient time had passed that a similar design was acceptable. Even if the original design was still the best I don’t believe an exact copy would have been acceptable, again for obvious reasons.😉
Many German troops such as the Waffen SS, wore camouflage uniforms. US Army combat engineers in Europe tried wearing camo uniforms for a while, but a number of them were killed after being confused with German troops. After that, they went back to wearing standard GI field uniforms.
That’s what he said in the video. I never knew about the trial in Normandy but as soon as he said it happened I figured it was dropped due to how similar it look to what Waffen SS units were wearing.
Camouflage uniforms are supposed to make wearers harder to be spotted AND identified. Therefore, camouflage works best when soldiers are well-coordinated and disciplined. An example would be the british paratroopers with their own disruptive camouflage pattern uniforms, they encounter very few friendly fire incidents simply because they are well-organized and cooperate with fellow paras smoothly, generally knowing where the friendly are and aren't, is isn't too trigger-happy to shoot anything that moves. On the other hand, the fresh out of boot camp American GI would just panick and call in fire support or just unload his gun upon hearing any gunshot. There is a reason why the US forces were infamous in their friendly fire causalities in WW2
One of my great uncles was unable to enlist as a pilot because he was colorblind, but he was able to pick out camouflage well and was a gunner on a bomber. We still have a coconut he brought back from the Philippines.
I once read that the cloth the Marines used for camo in the Pacific quickly took on a sheen which, rather than giving concealment, made the uniform stand out as a target.
True. That's basic physics. In fact, the human eye needs more time to spot a moving target wearing a dull, single shade, than camouflage. Hence the olive drab finally used by the US army. The French army also made the same conclusion recently, and that's why its tanks and vehicles are now all painted in a single earth shade, as it was found this color is much more difficult to spot than the camouflage previously used.
@@lemonhead1442 Camouflage is no boo-boo juice, and it's true the Germans had very good patterns designs, especially those used by the SS units, so good that they clearly influenced the Flecktarn still used by the German army today. But it's also true that a single, dull grey-green tone is also very efficient. A good example is the future French army camouflaged uniform, set to be put in service in 2024. It has been made to blend in the environment at a short distance, but also to appear as a single and dull tone for the human eye at a longer distance. And judging by the first footages I've recently seen, it seems really good. If you have time, have a look at this : ruclips.net/video/1rw71RYUCz0/видео.html
German troops that were interviewed by Army Intelligence after the war, revealed that the netting used on American helmets made them easier to see (I know it was supposed to be used for vegetation camo, but Wow..)
I assume that happened when the helmet was used without any foliage attached so the netting alone will naturally stand out as people see patterns easily especially familiar ones
@@gc2696 Yeah but you're talking about the helmet silhoutte and not whether or not a helmet itself is better with or without a conventional helmet netting. But since you brought it up the foliage attached to the netting should break the shape and silhoutte too along with blending to the surroundings. As for the Israelis they use the miznefet because their environment doesn't really have natural flora to use nor restrict their movement with bushes and branches which would make loose baggy helmet covers a pain in the ass.
@@TheSuspectOnFoot Israelis' best chance to blend in is to look like a demolished Palestinian house. Because their enemies have been shooting chefs on sight.
Yeah, the interview of a German Panzergrenadier, he fought in a whole bunch of places. The netting broke up the silhouette, making it easier to identify the pattern of the M1. He noticed Americans just stood there, just waiting to be killed, along with that if they did roll, they always rolled to the right, so the Germans learned to just shoot on the American's right, so the American rolled into the bullet
That makes quite a lot of sense actually. Though I find it quite ironic that the camouflage, intended to make your troops harder to find by the enemy, ended up being used more for friendly/enemy identification. Makes a lot of sense in the pacific in that way as well, as many of the Japanese forces didn’t really use camo all too much, especially as the war progressed. The only Japanese troops I’ve seen or heard of that used camo were either the rare specialized troops (paratroopers), or snipers/grunts in the jungle that used natural foliage. So I guess camo was better used for identifying enemy and friendly combatants rather than overall concealment. Funnily enough, if my memory serves me correctly, it was the other way around for tanks in the Pacific. American Shermans were mostly in the drab green coloring compared to the the Japanese tanks which utilized a lot of camo. I wonder if that helped identifying enemy vehicles for opposing sides aside the obvious difference in shape. Possibly the same case for warplanes too, especially when the camouflaged Japanese and German forces had to contend with the overwhelming Army Air Force in stunning chrome and bright colors later on (though the Navy/Marines definitely used their distinctive blue and white patterns).
@@PremierHistory The possibility of misidentification is high. Hence why in Ukraine the UA tape their arms and legs blue and the Russians sometimes do Red or White.
That's also in the modern day every milltary works really hard to come up with a unique pattern and why China ditching it's unique pattern for copying the US is very bad.
The US Army should have went all in on camo or none at all. The Waffen SS began trialing Camo helmet covers and reversible camo Spring/ Fall Smocks as early as 1937. I served in the US Army infantry from the early 90's til I retired in 2011. Without doubt even to this day the Waffen SS camo patterns are some of the best I've ever seen.
C’mon you served in the Army when have you ever known it to do anything at all logical? 😂. I have to admit German flectairn is pretty bad azz. I also have to say the frog skin pattern was cool as hell. Semper Fi SSgt B
I was in when we transitioned from Olive Drab to BDU's. Both were fine by me. As to D-Day, I think you're correct. Everybody should have been wearing it, or nobody. And it should have been implemented earlier, en mass.
I studied the US camouflage saga of WW2. I was in liaison with all the great historians expert in their field about US uniforms of WW2. The army Camo was trialed around around about 42-43, it wasn't that successful due to no real advantage over concealment at distance so it was dropped, the program didn't continue. The army wanted a new type uniform the 43 pattern as the the top staff hated all the different styles of mix mash uniforms like 41 jackets, mackinaw jackets, wool trousers etc, they wanted to standardise the uniform, the top brass even considered the British uniform as they thought the Brits and the commonwealth were smart hence the Ike jacket late post war. To get the 43 pattern ready for the Normandy invasion there wasn't enough time to equip all the men in that theatre, through to manufacturing testing delays and material etc There was small batches that did make it in time for Normandy, plenty of pictorial evidence. Those who landed on the beaches of Normandy only wore cammo after the landings when they changed clothing for R&R. It wasn't experimental it made up the shortages of uniforms which the 43 uniforms would have made, it was a temporary stop gap. They were issued until supplies ran out over a couple of weeks and not for any trials or experimentation. the cammo was worn until it wore out. With the big myth about mistaken identity with German cammo and US troops there is no records in the archives about this, i have asked those in the US who write books and visit the archives in the US Johnathan Gawn etc, friendly fire in the hedge row of Normandy was common, it happened at operation Cobra when the USAAF Bombed their own troops near StLo, the army called them the USAAF the US Luftwaffe The last know photo of US cammo being worn was in the battle for Brittany About Sept 9th. Mistaken identity could have even happened with the British forces as our para cammo is similar to the Splittertarnmuster or Zeltbahn pattern which was captured and also used by Brit snipers. In North Africa the Brits mistaken US troops wearing the new M1 helmet as Italians, similar shape over distance, recorded in the archives as Tommy and Yank.
Thank you for that solid information about camo uniforms. It is surprisingly easy for historians to perpetuate such minor misconceptions/myths about WWII. While doing my dissertation research on combat behavior in the ETO, I accidentally stumbled upon information dispelling other such minor myths. It was rather unsettling to realize that there were probably other bits of misinformation in my dissertation that I had yet to discover.
@@jharris0341 Soon after WW2, most events about the war were still classified so when the history books were written these missing explanations of events were made up or in most cases assumed by historians which seemed logical at the time, until such information was de classified. Thats why certain myths came about, their explanation just filled the gap, which at the time of writing was logical reasoning to events and those reading. As historians chatted to veterans about events especially in old age, some times their memory is not as good a short while after the original episode. For instance its been know that any type of German tank was sometimes referred to as a Tiger tank to a lot of veterans, upon research with good documentation of events that such Tigers were a hundred miles away or not in that area talked about by the veteran, so more misinformation and myths accure. Even today History is full of great surprises. I done some research about the British Blacker Bombard 29mm spigot mortar. Seen as some dangerous clumsy weapon of war. Due to one incident a a huge Home Guard and Army demonstration where a fuze was accidentally placed in a bomb back to front because the rubber bung fell off and lack of training. The bomb exploded when the weapon was fired killing bystanders and injuring many. Of course the word and rumour went round like wildfire that the weapon in question was very dangerous to the user and was fear to use when in fact other weapons of the time could be also dangerous to the user if no training was given properly such as the 2" mortar another well known and loved weapon. Unfortunately historians give their own opinion on events which they fail to research properly to a weapon that turned out to be a very good bit of kit in the long run, it was with out knowing at the time the predecessor to HESH, high explosive squash head that is still used today.
@@WilliamSmith-gx8ed The USAAF bombed short, had nothing to do with cammo uniforms just a bombing error, recorded in the history books operation cobra all there.
And the US Govt should have known better than to issue camouflage uniforms that were so similar to the German patterns. The British airborne divisions wore camo smocks and because the pattern was completely different, friendly fire incidents were very almost unheard of.
Frankly, if your camouflage uniform is so similar to that of your enemy, that friendly fire is a serious concern, isn't the bigger question, "is it actually effective as camouflage?" If you're wearing camo, and somebody, anybody, starts throwing rounds at you, friendly or hostile, obviously, the camo was ineffective. Otherwise, they wouldn't be shooting at you.
@@jackstecker5796 But troops have to move between locations during a battle which would compromise whatever pattern of camouflage they are wearing. Thus the opportunity to be seen and be shot at by the enemy or a 'friendly fire' incident. 😐
The british camo smocks caused less problems because: 1) Only the smocks were camouflaged, the paratrooper still wearing a very distinctive brown trouser identifying him as a British or Canadian. 2) Due to the large brown military harness and pouches wore by the British paratrooper above it most of the smock was masked. Meaning you could identify a British soldier before noticing he was a paratrooper wearing camo...
My Dad trained in Missouri with the 75th Infantry. I have photos of him in 1943 in camo with a camo helmet cover there. He looked like a Marine. Ike pulled a segment of the 75th and sent them to the 4th Infantry in Normandy in 44 where Dad landed at Utah Beach in plain GI gear.
I like that the soldier on the left in the pic at 3:44 is carrying a german pistol on his belt. I knew several WWII grunts who said that they did that because when clearing buildings, a pistol was more useful. My boss in the early 1980s was a Marine in the invasion of Batio. He said that they were issued new camouflage coveralls for the invasion. The new camis didn't breathe so by 1000hrs the first day they had to strip them off and run around in their skivvies. The Army repeated the non-breathing camis mistake in the 1980s.
I entered service with the Marine Corps in 1993. By that time the US military had long adopted the M81 woodland camouflage pattern. When I went to Boot Camp, we were issued the newer, thinner "rip stop" cammies. The Marines that had been in longer had the older woodland cammies that were thicker. I remember buying a set of those older, thicker material woodland cammies. Those things were nice in winter, but if the weather got warmer, they sucked. Found that out when I used them in Okinawa. The thinner rip stop cammies were better for breathing and when the temp picks up. A problem I heard with some of those WWII Marine Corps camouflage uniforms was that they faded quite badly, quickly. The Corps used some camouflage uniforms in the middle part of WWII but eventually settled on solid green HBT uniforms for 1944-45 for service wide use.
@@Warmaker01 I was Army but had the real short haircut. In 1976 the Marines had good ripstop camis. On a Saturday, wearing civies, I went into the nearby Marine base uniform store and bought two sets of the new camis. As I walked up to the register, in a command voice, I said "good morning corporal, how'd you get stuck working on a Saturday". He told me and forgot to check my id. I paid and left. Another Army Officer with me got id' and couldn't buy anything. They were the best camis that I've owned. Good Luck, Rick
I always thought that they did not wear camouflaged uniforms in Europe because it is mostly fought in plains and urban settings whereas in the Pacific, they are almost always fought in areas with dense jungle or hilly terrain. This video helped me with my misconception lol😆
@@rickbarnes7745 no it was not it is known for the bulge however a battle did happen in ww1 called the battle of Ardennes just a little bit near Luxemburg you are not wrong but he is talking about bulge
All accounts I've seen of them ditching camo because it looked German make no sense. The main unit to have it never deployed anywhere near the SS or Para units, and combat reports don't show any more friendly fire issues than one would expect for a unit of that size in Normandy. It seems more to be the following: 1.) That particular camouflage pattern didn't blend well in Europe. 2.) Supply issues of having a special uniform for some units.
Perhaps you should do a video on the Denison smock design used by the British. Their camouflage pattern differed enough from Axis versions. The 1942 frog pattern while effective stationary; also had the problem of being noticeable when soldiers were on the move. This is why it was replaced by the leaf pattern in 1948.
I heard a rumor once, the reason for the army not wearing camo uniforms in Europe was because they wouldn’t be standing still long enough for it to be effective, the army was moving offensively to push the Germans out, they saw camo as being used for defense, apparently that was common belief amongst most of the allied powers, when NATO was formed only a few countries adopted a standard camo uniform for use in areas along borders with the USSR, using that same logic. Like I said it’s a rumor but it makes sense to me and looking at old pictures it seems plausible. I still think an OD fatigue or work wear would be useful in the military, really makes no sense having them in camouflage stateside, and a lot of people have talked crap on the reintroduction of the “pinks and greens” uniform but it’s a nice change of style to see officials in a tie and jacket in a formal setting rather than in a camo jacket and pants
The US Army (and Air Force and Navy) still have problems coming up with a camo pattern that the troops and command are happy with. The Marine's digital pattern has been in service for decades now and the troops love it. To the best of my knowledge, the Corps has no plans to change it. I remember when the Corps was coming up with what would be the digital pattern. They conducted extensive reviews, tests, and even asked the opinions of retired and veteran Marines (I know, because I put my two-cents worth in on an on-line opinion poll). When I was a Marine, I wore the olive drab sateen's, the jungle pattern camos, and eventually the woodland pattern. Later, I also wore the chocolate chip deserts and the three-color deserts. By then I was in the Air National Guard and our regular utilities were the standard woodlands. The Marines understood that a "universal" color pattern that would work in woodlands and deserts didn't really work out, thus Marines having two separate color utility camo uniforms. Works out much better. Why the Air Force (except for security forces and spec ops people) and the Navy (except for Seabees and SEALS) need a camo uniform is beyond me. Navy medical corpsmen attached to Marine units wear the USMC digital camos. And why Space Force (except maybe for their yet to be organized security forces) needs camo is also a wonder. The Coast Guard still maintains a dose of common sense with their utility uniforms. During my father's time in the WWII Marine Corps, he often wore the two-piece greenside/brownside camo as he was in a scout-sniper platoon. The average infantryman generally wore the plain green dungarees. Everyone had the reversible helmet covers after Guadalcanal, although some declined to wear them in battle. I have a WWII helmet cover and it does not have a sheen that would discourage me from wearing it. One uniform item the Marines continued to wear after WWII were the khaki leggings even after the Army stopped wearing them. However, the Marines stopped their use during Korea when they found out the N. Koreans and Chinese Armies ordered their troops not to attack the American "yellow legs." The Marines were wondering for awhile why the commies weren't keen on fighting them after the Chosin Reservoir Campaign. Once they stopped wearing the leggings, the commies had a harder time telling Marines from Army, so they foolishly went back to attacking Marines.
MARPAT is based on the Canadian Army CADPAT who consulted with the Marines on development. The desert versions of MARPAT/CADPAT are nearly identical. The woodland version of MARPAT has browns in it to make it more suited to southern climates and sandy terrain. CADPAT woodland is optimized for northern temperate forest and I think it's the most effective camo for green foliage there is. Soldiers with CADPAT in a treeline with green shrubbery become nearly invisible.
Frankly the military should’ve stuck with the standardized woodland and tri color desert patterns for all service branches, sure the MARPAT camouflage works well but it incentivized every other service branch to make their own special trademarked uniform pattern spending a lot of money on RnD and outfitting, you’d be shocked that a “cool” factor is taken in the design of adopted camo as well, the Army couldn’t let the marines have a “cool” camo so they made the worst uniform pattern known to mankind the UCP and the airforce followed with the equally terrible digital tiger and there’s no comment about the Navy blueberry NWUs
@@MrJedi5150 What kills me is both sides in Ukr are forced to use tape for IFF identification, degrading the value of the camo. Prolly close to zero with brightly coloured tape on your helmet. Maybe it's only for urban combat.
I don't think the limited issue of camouflage uniforms in Normandy was a trial, so much as a matter of using up existing stocks that happened to be on hand. Once issued, the camo uniforms weren't so much withdrawn, as they were simply worn out and expended, and not replaced. There was never any serious intent to adopt camouflage pattern uniforms for general issue. Basic O.D. was considered adequate. The camouflage pattern used also turned out to be less than effective. It wasn't too bad as long as the wearer stayed still and wasn't moving. Once he did move, however, it became quite visible, and stood out like a sore thumb.
The idea that the pattern wasn't effective is something I'll push against. Any pattern losses effectiveness when moving, movement is an attractor to the eye; my understanding is that that was one of several pretences used to get rid of something that wasn't particularly popular due to a lack of(perceived) need. In hindsight we know that it's very effective(and modern multicam shows striving similarity to frogskin in colouration). Though i shall concede that with dye technology at the time fading was a known issue, one of the reasons many 20th century patterns were dark in colouration compared to frogskin)
Having served as an Infantryman for ten years active duty in multiple countries and environments I think the basic olive drab is the best all-around military camo. You can use local vegetation to augment, or if you're in a desert roll around in the dirt for a bit or ruck behind some vehicles. You'll be plenty dusty to blend in with the landscape.
@@ShortArmOfGod I think the point s/he is making is that you don't have to spend much time in the field and any uniform become a natural camouflage from dirt and grime. You can then augment it with natural brush to further the effect. OD green or Coyote brown is immaterial...it will all look the same after a week in the field. I even wore snow camo (all white) with the 10th MNT and even a week in the field with that makes a world of difference even in thw woods where the snow is hit and miss.
@@professorpick that's why we blouse our pants and use local vegetation or strips of burlap to augment. That's why gille suits are effective because they mask the silhouette.
Thank you thank you thank you. I am a geezer that grew up watching "combat" and lots of WW2 movies and I often wonder about that. Now I know and it makes perfect sense.
The prime reason these were not issued across the ETO is mostly in part because of how these camouflage uniforms faded. These uniforms would begin to turn white after repeated heavy use. It had little or nothing to do with friendly fire incidents. That one account of FF tends to be most of the argument used when talking about these uniforms.
I reenact 41st Armored Infantry, 2nd Armored Division, which was one of the units that was issued frogskin camo in the ETO for a brief time during Operation Cobra. I have a two piece camo set for that impression, so I wear it when we do Normandy events. Pretty comfortable, but does not retain heat well at all.
Correct me if I’m wrong but one of the main purposes of the nets around the helmet is that it’s possible to stuff leaves and other natural items from the surroundings inside to use as camouflage ( like a makeshift ghillie helmet)
It's actually a myth that the camo was discontinued due to friendly fire. There was a lengthy discussion about this topic on WW2TV. Apparently there are no recorded examples of soldiers being shot specifically due to the "frogskin" camo. Rather many soldiers were shot because of the M43 field jacket, which, because of its grayish color and large chest pockets led many soldiers to mistake them for common German field tunics. Some units like the 29th were issued the light-tan or brown colored M41 jackets, and therefore weren't used to seeing the newer gray-green uniforms in other units. Fundamentally, the camo was discontinued because it didn't conceal soldiers very well against the dark foliage of Normandy. The camo was too light and didn't blend in very well when units were on the move, which was quite frequently; especially for the 2nd Armored Division.
I always thought it was simply US Marine uniforms vs US Army uniforms. Also, that there was a more urban element to the European theater. But this information regarding German camo makes sense. Something I never considered.
🤣 I think the story goes he fashioned his camo helmet cover from a piece of camo parachute that was used by his brother who was killed in an airborne assault. But, yes, very interesting tidbit. 🤣
No, the US Army after trialled with the 41st Regiment, 2nd Armoured in Normandy had deemed the uniform not worthy of replacing M37 wool uniform as the OD mustard colouring of shirt and trousers and field jacket deemed enough colourings similarly to areas of operations, while not bothering to have a massive replacement of uniforms and use up M37 stocks and later keep to replacing on a wider front of the M43 uniform issued as early as August 44' to US troops in Northern France. The whole 'friendly fire' myth is partly overspread more then it really happened. It helps to actually search the US archives like some collectors, historians and even reenactors online have done so a few years back.
1st Marine parachute regiment Paramarines were a short lived Elite specialized unit within the Marine Corps at the beginning of World War II they wore unlike the rest camouflage uniforms . Many of the Marines kept their camouflage uniforms even after the disbandment of the unit.
This was very informative, but it also raised some questions. Currently all nations armies wear camo that (at least to me) looks identical, so how do they tell friend from foe? 2) Why did the USN adopt camo work uniforms? When I served (1964-1968) our work uniforms were either undress blues or whites, or for dirty work, dungarees. A sailor onboard ship doesn't need camouflage, and it's definitely a bad thing if you fall overboard, because you want to be visible to rescue parties.
A full on conventional war between two well equipped camouflage wearing enemies hasnt happened that much in the past. Ukraine and Russia is one of the few example and both sides tie ribbons around their arm and helmets for identification.
During WW1 the U.S Marines faced a similar problem, their fatigue uniforms were of a darker color then the U.S Army's...but closer to the German Felsgrau. They were issued with Army fatigues but took to adding an EGA to helmets or chests to denote their service.
As an armor crewman ('76-80) I thought the OD Green uniform was good visually, but it was Permanent Press. Didn't wick sweat, and burned like a match. Not what you want to wear on an overly combustible tank (M-551A1).
I remember my Platoon Commander on my Riflemans Course 30 years ago make the comment when the Skippyland Army switched from greens to Auscam he actually thought greens worked better in the field.
This is an incredibly interesting subject. I’ve always wondered why Anzac troops of ww1 wore the slouch hat at Gallipoli, and in Palestine. But a brody helmet in France and Belgium. I do believe that in Gallipoli it’s because the the British empire hadn’t adopted helmets as yet. But certainly the men who charged Beersheba wore slouch hats.
I interviewed Australian soldiers from WWII who had been fighting in the middle east. When the Japanese entered the war they were sent to fight in the jungles of New Guinea, still wearing their desert uniforms, which as one veteran noted screamed 'shoot me' in the jungle. They were also still wearing their shorts, less than ideal in an environment where mosquito born diseases caused as many casualties as the enemy
The grey one? That camouflage didn’t work at all, it made the soldiers stand out more than if they were wearing solid colours. It looks cool I suppose, but not good for it’s intended purpose. Some people have dyed theirs green or brown to make it blend in better and the dyed stuff is very effective.
It is still available. I bought a set and used it to elk hunt the last 2 weeks. I love how I can turn it inside out depending on what environment Im in. Since I live in Arizona that can be tan deserts or up in the woods where the green side comes in handy.
There was a squad of marines who served the OSS in europe doing assaults behind enemy lines. They all wore full USMC combat uniforms including the camo helmets.
Sgt Saunders worn a USMC camouflaged helmet in the tv show COMBATfor the entire run. I think, as the lead character, they wanted a way for him to stand out.
Honestly plain OD green or khaki depending on the environment is quite effective. This is why the army used plain green uniforms all the way up to the late 70s or early 80s. When I served in the US Army we were issued Woodland BDU and Desert chocolate chip DCU uniforms. However in recent years the army has spent millions of dollars developing new camo patterns. They issued a horrible uniform that was hated by all those that were forced to wear it. Now they have moved on to their new “multi cam” pattern. In the big scheme of things I don’t think these new modern camo patterns are that much better the camo designs from World War II. It certainly would be very cost effective to just issue Olive drab green uniforms sewn in today’s designs. Plain OD green actually looks very good as well. Sadly for the taxpayer the Pentagon will waste money developing “ better camouflage” for personnel uniforms. That money would be better spent on training.
Agreed. To further highlight the silliness of the matter to folks, I tell them I wore a different uniform for each of the three times I deployed overseas, not counting the woodland BDUs stateside.
greens. olives. browns. all out amazing. in modern warfare that ukraine has shown to combat this issue with yellow bands.around the shoulder, leg or helmet.
@@Slimpicken The WW2 version at Normandy was to have rank designations(NCO, Officers) on the back of the helmet. In the current conflict, if Russian snipers were as motivated as they were in the GPW, those color bands would be removed. It's situational.
The reason why the chocolate chip uniform did not last long was because, while it was an excellent camo uniform in the US southwest where it was developed and tested, it did not work well in southwest Asia, err, the Middle East.
actually their was a minor amount of camo in the ETO but it was in limited numbers and alotted to the pathfinders of the airborne units but the limey' para's and SAS and a few french CoDo units had their dennison's smocks
The Marine Corps used the frogskin camouflage beginning in 1943. It saw less use in the last two years of the Pacific War. The P1941 HBT uniform was more comfortable and remained in service well into the 1950's. It should be noted that there was a P1944 HBT uniform, as well. It was herringbone twill, but had several more pockets, including a large one at the seat of the trousers. It was also unpopular.
the small army unit known as the ALAMO SCOUTS often used camo uniforms in theor long range recon behind enemy lines in the south pacific theater. other than that, I havent found any units that used these camo uniforms. maybe some rangers The camo did blend in well, but like most patterns, when a soldier is on the move the pattern tends to attract the human eye. I think this played a role in the usmc moving away from camo uniforms by 1944.
I haven’t read any other comment mentioning this but, the lack of camo pattern in the European Theatre may have simply come down to the military’s preference for wool over cotton. You can’t easily print a pattern on wool fabric like you can cotton (you can print on wool, but it is a much more intensive operation and would have been prohibitively expense in war time). Using wool in the European Theatre seems advantages. Its usable temperature range is far superior to cotton. It’s warm in cold weather and cool and warm weather. It’s also insulates when wet. It also has natural anti-microbial properties meaning it can be worn for weeks on end without becoming smelly and gross. For an army expected to be on the move across temperate Western Europe in all seasons, wool seems like the right choice. Given the varied terrain the armies were expecting to encounter in Europe (including a lot of urban/village engagement) I think olive drab was the most universally usable choice. It also worked with other Allied uniforms. In the Pacific Theatre, where most land based fighting would be in dense foliage, camouflage was probably a good choice. And since temperatures would be more consistent cotton could be used.
The SS used Peas Pattern and Woodland camo, the US Paratroops did use camo for some Pathfinder special operations and some airborne troops painted their M1942 Para uniforms with camo colours. The British Parachute Regiment had camo Dennison smocks.
I have a Idea, Nations Military could simply start using Solid Color Helmet Covers. To stand out from the enemy vs Bright Color Tape on the sleeves lol
There is a simple reason they didn’t use camo in the ETO. Until recently WWII was fought in B&W. When I was young there was no colour footage of the war. It wasn’t until the 90’s that color started to show up in old war reels and camouflage became important. Yours, Brigadier Emmanuel Caaaant (Mrs.)
It’s a great idea using como uniform but they should of shown the camo that they were trialing to all allied soldiers like the denison smok camo us brits had , great video
Not really, it was early days and they were just learning how best to use it. They could have used a camo tartim like the highlanders, that did break up the shape of the wearer quite well.
Ridiculous. The m43 US jacket has nothing common with the German uniforms. Just put both side by side and you'll see. Moreover, the new US m43 uniform appeared quite late in the war and didn't have time to be full generalized till the last weeks of the war. If there was a true problem, it was rather with the m41 field jacket, that was soon found in Normandy beeing of a too light shade, making it easily visible in an European environment (and I won't mention it was also much too fragile...)
This happened to the US NAVY SEABEES during the start of DESERT STORM. When some Seabees were up on a berm the rest of US SOLDIERS in camo uniforms did not know who they were and opened up on them thinking they were Iraqi troops in standard Olive drab uniforms.
Soon after The first Gulf War was over plans were made to change the US NAVY SEABEES into woodland camo uniforms and around 1995 to 1996 it was done ending over 50 years of using Utility Green(Olive drab) as their standard field uniform.
Yep. I hadn't thought about it before, but when I clicked on the video I figured this was the reason. I go to some reenactment events and sometimes you just see the camo and know that's a German. You can't make out the pattern, but you just know it's camo.
When I first played Call of Duty 3, I got really confused in the first level of the game where the green camouflaged soldiers were shooting at me because I thought they were Americans.
That makes sense. Although the Army stayed with the solid color green uniforms through Korea and Vietnam. I don’t think BDUs were adopted service wide until the 80s. Why did it take so long if they had the technology since wwii?
My initial super simple guess before even watching this video is: Marines were in the Pacific and the army was in Europe and neither wanted to look like each other.
Yes if they reversed the color of the blobs with the background it would've been easy to tell them apart from the enemy while still breaking up the silhouette, which is the entire purpose of camo.
One can kind of grasp how difficult it would be to fight an insurgent and/or a non state actor type of conflict. Identification of the enemy must be a nightmare.
The risk of friendly fire was my thought as well. It's not worth the risk of friendly fire when the benefits of camouflage are sometimes over-stated. The point of camouflage isn't to make you invisible (although it's great when it conceals you perfectly), it's to make you harder to see/perceive, betting that the extra time it takes the enemy to see you is enough time to gain advantage. You have to weigh that probable advantage against other dangers like friendly fire.
The video is actually incorrect. The references given to suppose friendly fire incidences are only that quote. There are no formalized reports of friendly fire incidences at any point after D-Day. The uniforms were simply too fragile (made from HBT fabric, which was used for fatigue duty, not for combat) and offered too little advantage to be feasible.
@Stugna Bulah the associated quote isn't even a good source. We don't know who it's attributed to, or when. And you'd be damn sure to make a report about it, but they didn't. There are literally zero. And nobody in one of the units issued camo uniforms ever said anything about getting shot at because of their uniforms.
Why did that bother you? A lot of soldiers in Europe fashioned their own hodgepodge of camo covers and smocks. In "Combat" Morrows character fashioned his helmet cover from the parachute of his brother who had been killed in an airborne assault.
It used to bother me too, since I always thought only marines in the Pacific wore camo'd helmets. I later realized the show gave the sarge the camo'd helmet so the audience could identify him. They didn't want him confused with "little John" (LOL)
Once you've been in the field more than a few weeks your uniform pretty much looks the same whether it was jungle green or expensively developed camouflage. It looks grimy. I think civilians underestimate how a fully kitted soldier with months in the field pretty much turns the colour of their environment regardless of how they looked going in
What is slightly amusing is that during the testing of the (then) new Australian camouflage uniform (Auscam) in the late 1970's and early 1980's, it was apparently observed the standard "jungle greens" of the day worked just as well after a day in the field as the new modern camo pattern. Sometimes I think not wanting to look old-fashioned is the driving force behind some uniform pattern choices; the RAN uses what's basically a blue/black/grey Auscam pattern with retro-reflective tapes and (some of) the sailors (at least) joke about it being useless because they can't see if you fall off the boat into the water and you can't hide on land because of the retro-reflective elements (some-one waving a flashlight around would see the flashes of reflection)
@@dj1NM3 The same thing was said about the USN 'blueberries' camo uniform - supposedly it was meant to hide paint and dirt and grease splotches, not the sailor.
Testers: Fabric is too hot, maybe use a different blend and weight of fibers, also maybe use a different woodland pattern than the Jerrys. US Army: nah fam, just wear green instead. The woods are green so they probably can’t see you.
I read it was because the Germans already used a camouflage that was very similar to what the US had and Target recognition (ie not shooting your mate) is more important than the benefit the camouflage would have given over olive drab.
It probably would have made identification of friendly troops very difficult at night, given chaotic invasion of europe, poor communication, and the independent prerogative given to individual units.
great channel I have a question about the D-Day landings why did they not use the Landing Vehicle Tracked (LVT) (water Buffalo) or something similar in Europe like they used them in the pacific? To me it looks like they would have been able to save a lot of lives rather than the men having to run across the open beaches they would have been safer driving these across the beaches ?
Thanks for your support, glad you like the channel! For D-Day the idea was the Sherman DD Tanks were to be the support for the troops so the Buffalo was seen as not needed en masse. I believe they were utilised for the landings on Utah Beach in some form, exact numbers though I’m not certain.
Considering that the British paratroopers and some units among American paratroopers managed to have specific camo types that yet could be differentiated from German camouflage, the US could have done better because the adoption of camouflage was very slow afterwards among US forces until the second half of the Vietnam War.
They should have used a different pattern, and more colors say of earth green and tans and brown and more widely distributed. That would have cut down on confusion
We wore Olive Drab Sateen, after three or four days in the field crawling around in the dirt muck and mud our uniforms took on the color of our surroundings.
It created confusion between friendly and enemy troops and that is the last thing you want on a battlefield as the disastrous results you pointed out in the video showed. It simply was not needed especially when troops moved in and out of towns and cities in the more densely populated European theater. Solid or subdued colors were better against the back drop of solid building colors and the horizon. Not so much in the dense jungle and green leaf island hopping Pacific theater. But subdued solid colors were found to be better for all the armies both allies and axis with exception of specialized troops such as Nazi SS and US Marines.
Combat in the Pacific was more stationary and offered more opportunities to utilize concealment. Whereas everything was on the move in Europe and pattern camo stands out more as a moving target than solid camo like regular OD.
Because camo which US developed (the so-called Duckhunter/Frogskin pattern) resembles Waffen SS camo pattern. Compared it with British brush-stroke pattern, which is different and they used it as standard issue for British Paratroopers.
What did you think of the US army’s attempt at camouflage uniforms in Europe during ww2? Do you think they could have done anything better to make the trial successful?
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It would have no doubt worked out better if they gave it to everyone instead of just some. That would have prevented confusion. Of course it would have probably been impractical to replace all the uniforms at once under the circumstances, so it would have needed to be done earlier.
On a side note, it's really stupid that the army has all this camouflaged gear but don't have camouflaged guns. The black weapons stand out rather noticeably against the uniforms.
@@dwaneanderson8039 The military tried camouflaging M16 rifles. The problem is they are very difficult to find if you lay them down or drop them or prop rhem against a tree in the jungle or forest. Believe me, soldiers and Marines lay their rifles down, or drop them, or prop them way more than one might imagine.
I am currently 0:40 seconds into the video, and honestly. The US European army uniforms already looks camouflaged. It blended in well the the terrain, unlike in the Pacific theatre where the USMC camouflaged uniforms were needed so to more tropical islands like Peleliu, Saipan, Guam and much more.
The US army did use (green) camo uniforms in Europe in WW2, it was just not very sophisticated (though definitely better than 19thC uniforms). I did learn something from your video though, thanks
I have not yet seen the video but I will make a point. Camo uniforms were not used by the western allies post D-Day because the Waffen SS used camo uniforms. And not just one pattern but several. One common pattern used by the Waffen SS were uniforms and smocks made from material captured from the Italians (who used the pattern well after WW2). They were trying to avoid unfortunate friendly fire incidents.
This actually reminds me of why the U.S. military adopted the Brodie helmet in WWI despite developing a better helmet during field trials. Besides the Brodie design already being in circulation and to better fit in with the allies, the alternate design resembled too close to the German Stahlhelm helmet and risked friendly fire.
its funny because years later the us army ended up using a helmet that looks exactly like stahlhelm during the gulf war
@@sunshineskystar Well yeah. But they didn't have to fight the germans anymore. So no danger anymore to mistake them for enemy troops just because of the helmet.
PS: I actually googled what kind of helmet the Iraq Armed Forces were using during the Gulf War.
The so called Iraqi M80 Helmet. Designed and manufactured in South Korea by Hyundai. Ironically it looks like an US M1 Helmet.
Must have been quite weird for american soldiers. Now the people with "Nazi Helmets" were friendlies. The ones with "M1 Helmets" were the baddies. Good thing they had very different uniforms.
The Major difference between the M1 Helmet and the Iraqi M80 Helmet was that the M80 was made out of Canvas coated with Plastic instead of Steel.
Yes you heard that right. They used an helmet which was mostly made out of the same material backpacks and shoes are made of. (basically they wore a bycicle helmet that looked like an M1 helmet)
The reason for that? They were cheap.
Those poor fucking bastards. Going to war with a bycicle helmet.
@@sunshineskystar I've heard the US field equipment designers have always liked the German Stahlhelm design but weren't able to use it for obvious reasons. Once enough time had passed they quickly adopted a modernized version.
@@kurttate9446 That's not 100% what happened. They told a group of engineers what they wanted and the design they came up with looked similar to the Stahlhelm.
@@erwin669 To a degree that’s true,but the modern designers didn’t start thinking about it the day they got the order. Designs percolate, often over many years. The idea of the stahlhelm was certainly in everybody’s mind (after all it’s a very famous design). I’ve read or been told (I don’t remember which or when) that we, long ago, saw the merits of the design, but historic circumstances prevented us from basing a new helmet design on it until sufficient time had passed that a similar design was acceptable. Even if the original design was still the best I don’t believe an exact copy would have been acceptable, again for obvious reasons.😉
Many German troops such as the Waffen SS, wore camouflage uniforms. US Army combat engineers in Europe tried wearing camo uniforms for a while, but a number of them were killed after being confused with German troops. After that, they went back to wearing standard GI field uniforms.
Yeah but the soviets had the very simple "Amoeba" which wasnt, and cant be confused with waffen ss.
The friendly fire reason is actually a myth. They discontinued the camo uniforms for the simple fact that they did not perform well.
@@farrellfox3982 although you could really mistake it for Dot 44.
That’s what he said in the video. I never knew about the trial in Normandy but as soon as he said it happened I figured it was dropped due to how similar it look to what Waffen SS units were wearing.
Camouflage uniforms are supposed to make wearers harder to be spotted AND identified. Therefore, camouflage works best when soldiers are well-coordinated and disciplined. An example would be the british paratroopers with their own disruptive camouflage pattern uniforms, they encounter very few friendly fire incidents simply because they are well-organized and cooperate with fellow paras smoothly, generally knowing where the friendly are and aren't, is isn't too trigger-happy to shoot anything that moves. On the other hand, the fresh out of boot camp American GI would just panick and call in fire support or just unload his gun upon hearing any gunshot. There is a reason why the US forces were infamous in their friendly fire causalities in WW2
One of my great uncles was unable to enlist as a pilot because he was colorblind, but he was able to pick out camouflage well and was a gunner on a bomber. We still have a coconut he brought back from the Philippines.
chad
I wonder how the coconut still looks
@@belonn6121 must be all rotten n stuff
@@idkidk6745 it’s rock hard, but still inedible.
A neighbor, when I grew up, was color blind, was made a bombardier in WWII.
I once read that the cloth the Marines used for camo in the Pacific quickly took on a sheen which, rather than giving concealment, made the uniform stand out as a target.
True. That's basic physics. In fact, the human eye needs more time to spot a moving target wearing a dull, single shade, than camouflage. Hence the olive drab finally used by the US army. The French army also made the same conclusion recently, and that's why its tanks and vehicles are now all painted in a single earth shade, as it was found this color is much more difficult to spot than the camouflage previously used.
The ink faded fast in the sun.
@@laurentdevaux5617 so camouflage is boo-boo juice ?😵
@@laurentdevaux5617 The Germans had really good pattern designs that blended well
@@lemonhead1442 Camouflage is no boo-boo juice, and it's true the Germans had very good patterns designs, especially those used by the SS units, so good that they clearly influenced the Flecktarn still used by the German army today. But it's also true that a single, dull grey-green tone is also very efficient. A good example is the future French army camouflaged uniform, set to be put in service in 2024. It has been made to blend in the environment at a short distance, but also to appear as a single and dull tone for the human eye at a longer distance. And judging by the first footages I've recently seen, it seems really good. If you have time, have a look at this : ruclips.net/video/1rw71RYUCz0/видео.html
German troops that were interviewed by Army Intelligence after the war, revealed that the netting used on American helmets made them easier to see (I know it was supposed to be used for vegetation camo, but Wow..)
I assume that happened when the helmet was used without any foliage attached so the netting alone will naturally stand out as people see patterns easily especially familiar ones
That was mentioned in an article explaining the modern Israel chef's hat ....anything to make helmet not look like a helmet....
@@gc2696 Yeah but you're talking about the helmet silhoutte and not whether or not a helmet itself is better with or without a conventional helmet netting. But since you brought it up the foliage attached to the netting should break the shape and silhoutte too along with blending to the surroundings. As for the Israelis they use the miznefet because their environment doesn't really have natural flora to use nor restrict their movement with bushes and branches which would make loose baggy helmet covers a pain in the ass.
@@TheSuspectOnFoot
Israelis' best chance to blend in is to look like a demolished Palestinian house.
Because their enemies have been shooting chefs on sight.
Yeah, the interview of a German Panzergrenadier, he fought in a whole bunch of places. The netting broke up the silhouette, making it easier to identify the pattern of the M1. He noticed Americans just stood there, just waiting to be killed, along with that if they did roll, they always rolled to the right, so the Germans learned to just shoot on the American's right, so the American rolled into the bullet
That makes quite a lot of sense actually. Though I find it quite ironic that the camouflage, intended to make your troops harder to find by the enemy, ended up being used more for friendly/enemy identification. Makes a lot of sense in the pacific in that way as well, as many of the Japanese forces didn’t really use camo all too much, especially as the war progressed. The only Japanese troops I’ve seen or heard of that used camo were either the rare specialized troops (paratroopers), or snipers/grunts in the jungle that used natural foliage.
So I guess camo was better used for identifying enemy and friendly combatants rather than overall concealment.
Funnily enough, if my memory serves me correctly, it was the other way around for tanks in the Pacific. American Shermans were mostly in the drab green coloring compared to the the Japanese tanks which utilized a lot of camo. I wonder if that helped identifying enemy vehicles for opposing sides aside the obvious difference in shape. Possibly the same case for warplanes too, especially when the camouflaged Japanese and German forces had to contend with the overwhelming Army Air Force in stunning chrome and bright colors later on (though the Navy/Marines definitely used their distinctive blue and white patterns).
Great insight Andrew!
@@PremierHistory The possibility of misidentification is high. Hence why in Ukraine the UA tape their arms and legs blue and the Russians sometimes do Red or White.
That's also in the modern day every milltary works really hard to come up with a unique pattern and why China ditching it's unique pattern for copying the US is very bad.
@God Does Not Exist Their field gear did have rings on them to hold foliage for camouflage but their uniform was generally one color.
Japan's tanks and artillery were so inferior that America could have painted the tanks fire engine red..
The US Army should have went all in on camo or none at all. The Waffen SS began trialing Camo helmet covers and reversible camo Spring/ Fall Smocks as early as 1937.
I served in the US Army infantry from the early 90's til I retired in 2011. Without doubt even to this day the Waffen SS camo patterns are some of the best I've ever seen.
Yes, the Waffle SS. They were usually complimented by the Syrup Battalion.
@@Fulllife3.2
Not to mention the Pancake SS (Super Secret). That's why you've never heard of them.
🥞...🤫
@@Fulllife3.2 I didn't notice autocorrect made it Waffle. 😂
C’mon you served in the Army when have you ever known it to do anything at all logical? 😂. I have to admit German flectairn is pretty bad azz. I also have to say the frog skin pattern was cool as hell. Semper Fi SSgt B
I was in when we transitioned from Olive Drab to BDU's. Both were fine by me. As to D-Day, I think you're correct. Everybody should have been wearing it, or nobody. And it should have been implemented earlier, en mass.
One thing they taught us in BCT in 1967 is that as soon as you move you break camouflage.
I studied the US camouflage saga of WW2. I was in liaison with all the great historians expert in their field about US uniforms of WW2. The army Camo was trialed around around about 42-43, it wasn't that successful due to no real advantage over concealment at distance so it was dropped, the program didn't continue. The army wanted a new type uniform the 43 pattern as the the top staff hated all the different styles of mix mash uniforms like 41 jackets, mackinaw jackets, wool trousers etc, they wanted to standardise the uniform, the top brass even considered the British uniform as they thought the Brits and the commonwealth were smart hence the Ike jacket late post war. To get the 43 pattern ready for the Normandy invasion there wasn't enough time to equip all the men in that theatre, through to manufacturing testing delays and material etc There was small batches that did make it in time for Normandy, plenty of pictorial evidence. Those who landed on the beaches of Normandy only wore cammo after the landings when they changed clothing for R&R. It wasn't experimental it made up the shortages of uniforms which the 43 uniforms would have made, it was a temporary stop gap. They were issued until supplies ran out over a couple of weeks and not for any trials or experimentation. the cammo was worn until it wore out. With the big myth about mistaken identity with German cammo and US troops there is no records in the archives about this, i have asked those in the US who write books and visit the archives in the US Johnathan Gawn etc, friendly fire in the hedge row of Normandy was common, it happened at operation Cobra when the USAAF Bombed their own troops near StLo, the army called them the USAAF the US Luftwaffe The last know photo of US cammo being worn was in the battle for Brittany About Sept 9th. Mistaken identity could have even happened with the British forces as our para cammo is similar to the Splittertarnmuster or Zeltbahn pattern which was captured and also used by Brit snipers. In North Africa the Brits mistaken US troops wearing the new M1 helmet as Italians, similar shape over distance, recorded in the archives as Tommy and Yank.
interesting.
Thank you for that solid information about camo uniforms. It is surprisingly easy for historians to perpetuate such minor misconceptions/myths about WWII. While doing my dissertation research on combat behavior in the ETO, I accidentally stumbled upon information dispelling other such minor myths. It was rather unsettling to realize that there were probably other bits of misinformation in my dissertation that I had yet to discover.
@@jharris0341 Soon after WW2, most events about the war were still classified so when the history books were written these missing explanations of events were made up or in most cases assumed by historians which seemed logical at the time, until such information was de classified. Thats why certain myths came about, their explanation just filled the gap, which at the time of writing was logical reasoning to events and those reading. As historians chatted to veterans about events especially in old age, some times their memory is not as good a short while after the original episode. For instance its been know that any type of German tank was sometimes referred to as a Tiger tank to a lot of veterans, upon research with good documentation of events that such Tigers were a hundred miles away or not in that area talked about by the veteran, so more misinformation and myths accure. Even today History is full of great surprises. I done some research about the British Blacker Bombard 29mm spigot mortar. Seen as some dangerous clumsy weapon of war. Due to one incident a a huge Home Guard and Army demonstration where a fuze was accidentally placed in a bomb back to front because the rubber bung fell off and lack of training. The bomb exploded when the weapon was fired killing bystanders and injuring many. Of course the word and rumour went round like wildfire that the weapon in question was very dangerous to the user and was fear to use when in fact other weapons of the time could be also dangerous to the user if no training was given properly such as the 2" mortar another well known and loved weapon. Unfortunately historians give their own opinion on events which they fail to research properly to a weapon that turned out to be a very good bit of kit in the long run, it was with out knowing at the time the predecessor to HESH, high explosive squash head that is still used today.
Chris, (if I may). How did the USAAF confuse American troops way down on the ground with various German units!🫤perplexed!!
@@WilliamSmith-gx8ed The USAAF bombed short, had nothing to do with cammo uniforms just a bombing error, recorded in the history books operation cobra all there.
And the US Govt should have known better than to issue camouflage uniforms that were so similar to the German patterns. The British airborne divisions wore camo smocks and because the pattern was completely different, friendly fire incidents were very almost unheard of.
Frankly, if your camouflage uniform is so similar to that of your enemy, that friendly fire is a serious concern, isn't the bigger question, "is it actually effective as camouflage?"
If you're wearing camo, and somebody, anybody, starts throwing rounds at you, friendly or hostile, obviously, the camo was ineffective. Otherwise, they wouldn't be shooting at you.
@@jackstecker5796 But troops have to move between locations during a battle which would compromise whatever pattern of camouflage they are wearing. Thus the opportunity to be seen and be shot at by the enemy or a 'friendly fire' incident. 😐
The british camo smocks caused less problems because:
1) Only the smocks were camouflaged, the paratrooper still wearing a very distinctive brown trouser identifying him as a British or Canadian.
2) Due to the large brown military harness and pouches wore by the British paratrooper above it most of the smock was masked.
Meaning you could identify a British soldier before noticing he was a paratrooper wearing camo...
It's also more the case that the paratroopers are highly trained vs the US infantrymen who were hastily trained conscripts.
My Dad trained in Missouri with the 75th Infantry. I have photos of him in 1943 in camo with a camo helmet cover there. He looked like a Marine. Ike pulled a segment of the 75th and sent them to the 4th Infantry in Normandy in 44 where Dad landed at Utah Beach in plain GI gear.
I like that the soldier on the left in the pic at 3:44 is carrying a german pistol on his belt. I knew several WWII grunts who said that they did that because when clearing buildings, a pistol was more useful. My boss in the early 1980s was a Marine in the invasion of Batio. He said that they were issued new camouflage coveralls for the invasion. The new camis didn't breathe so by 1000hrs the first day they had to strip them off and run around in their skivvies. The Army repeated the non-breathing camis mistake in the 1980s.
I entered service with the Marine Corps in 1993. By that time the US military had long adopted the M81 woodland camouflage pattern. When I went to Boot Camp, we were issued the newer, thinner "rip stop" cammies. The Marines that had been in longer had the older woodland cammies that were thicker.
I remember buying a set of those older, thicker material woodland cammies. Those things were nice in winter, but if the weather got warmer, they sucked. Found that out when I used them in Okinawa. The thinner rip stop cammies were better for breathing and when the temp picks up.
A problem I heard with some of those WWII Marine Corps camouflage uniforms was that they faded quite badly, quickly. The Corps used some camouflage uniforms in the middle part of WWII but eventually settled on solid green HBT uniforms for 1944-45 for service wide use.
@@Warmaker01 I was Army but had the real short haircut. In 1976 the Marines had good ripstop camis. On a Saturday, wearing civies, I went into the nearby Marine base uniform store and bought two sets of the new camis. As I walked up to the register, in a command voice, I said "good morning corporal, how'd you get stuck working on a Saturday". He told me and forgot to check my id. I paid and left. Another Army Officer with me got id' and couldn't buy anything. They were the best camis that I've owned. Good Luck, Rick
I always thought that they did not wear camouflaged uniforms in Europe because it is mostly fought in plains and urban settings whereas in the Pacific, they are almost always fought in areas with dense jungle or hilly terrain. This video helped me with my misconception lol😆
Do you remember the battle for the Ardennes?
@@laurensa.1803 That was WW I.
@@rickbarnes7745 no it was not it is known for the bulge however a battle did happen in ww1 called the battle of Ardennes just a little bit near Luxemburg you are not wrong but he is talking about bulge
@@laurensa.1803 let's not forget Hurtgenwald
All accounts I've seen of them ditching camo because it looked German make no sense.
The main unit to have it never deployed anywhere near the SS or Para units, and combat reports don't show any more friendly fire issues than one would expect for a unit of that size in Normandy.
It seems more to be the following:
1.) That particular camouflage pattern didn't blend well in Europe.
2.) Supply issues of having a special uniform for some units.
Perhaps you should do a video on the Denison smock design used by the British. Their camouflage pattern differed enough from Axis versions. The 1942 frog pattern while effective stationary; also had the problem of being noticeable when soldiers were on the move. This is why it was replaced by the leaf pattern in 1948.
I heard a rumor once, the reason for the army not wearing camo uniforms in Europe was because they wouldn’t be standing still long enough for it to be effective, the army was moving offensively to push the Germans out, they saw camo as being used for defense, apparently that was common belief amongst most of the allied powers, when NATO was formed only a few countries adopted a standard camo uniform for use in areas along borders with the USSR, using that same logic. Like I said it’s a rumor but it makes sense to me and looking at old pictures it seems plausible. I still think an OD fatigue or work wear would be useful in the military, really makes no sense having them in camouflage stateside, and a lot of people have talked crap on the reintroduction of the “pinks and greens” uniform but it’s a nice change of style to see officials in a tie and jacket in a formal setting rather than in a camo jacket and pants
The US Army (and Air Force and Navy) still have problems coming up with a camo pattern that the troops and command are happy with. The Marine's digital pattern has been in service for decades now and the troops love it. To the best of my knowledge, the Corps has no plans to change it. I remember when the Corps was coming up with what would be the digital pattern. They conducted extensive reviews, tests, and even asked the opinions of retired and veteran Marines (I know, because I put my two-cents worth in on an on-line opinion poll). When I was a Marine, I wore the olive drab sateen's, the jungle pattern camos, and eventually the woodland pattern. Later, I also wore the chocolate chip deserts and the three-color deserts. By then I was in the Air National Guard and our regular utilities were the standard woodlands. The Marines understood that a "universal" color pattern that would work in woodlands and deserts didn't really work out, thus Marines having two separate color utility camo uniforms. Works out much better.
Why the Air Force (except for security forces and spec ops people) and the Navy (except for Seabees and SEALS) need a camo uniform is beyond me. Navy medical corpsmen attached to Marine units wear the USMC digital camos. And why Space Force (except maybe for their yet to be organized security forces) needs camo is also a wonder. The Coast Guard still maintains a dose of common sense with their utility uniforms.
During my father's time in the WWII Marine Corps, he often wore the two-piece greenside/brownside camo as he was in a scout-sniper platoon. The average infantryman generally wore the plain green dungarees. Everyone had the reversible helmet covers after Guadalcanal, although some declined to wear them in battle. I have a WWII helmet cover and it does not have a sheen that would discourage me from wearing it. One uniform item the Marines continued to wear after WWII were the khaki leggings even after the Army stopped wearing them. However, the Marines stopped their use during Korea when they found out the N. Koreans and Chinese Armies ordered their troops not to attack the American "yellow legs." The Marines were wondering for awhile why the commies weren't keen on fighting them after the Chosin Reservoir Campaign. Once they stopped wearing the leggings, the commies had a harder time telling Marines from Army, so they foolishly went back to attacking Marines.
MARPAT is based on the Canadian Army CADPAT who consulted with the Marines on development. The desert versions of MARPAT/CADPAT are nearly identical. The woodland version of MARPAT has browns in it to make it more suited to southern climates and sandy terrain. CADPAT woodland is optimized for northern temperate forest and I think it's the most effective camo for green foliage there is. Soldiers with CADPAT in a treeline with green shrubbery become nearly invisible.
Frankly the military should’ve stuck with the standardized woodland and tri color desert patterns for all service branches, sure the MARPAT camouflage works well but it incentivized every other service branch to make their own special trademarked uniform pattern spending a lot of money on RnD and outfitting, you’d be shocked that a “cool” factor is taken in the design of adopted camo as well, the Army couldn’t let the marines have a “cool” camo so they made the worst uniform pattern known to mankind the UCP and the airforce followed with the equally terrible digital tiger and there’s no comment about the Navy blueberry NWUs
@@loganbaileysfunwithtrains606 Is it true they spent 5 billion on the ACU?
@@JK-rv9tp unsure of the actual number but that sounds accurate.
@@MrJedi5150 What kills me is both sides in Ukr are forced to use tape for IFF identification, degrading the value of the camo. Prolly close to zero with brightly coloured tape on your helmet. Maybe it's only for urban combat.
I don't think the limited issue of camouflage uniforms in Normandy was a trial, so much as a matter of using up existing stocks that happened to be on hand. Once issued, the camo uniforms weren't so much withdrawn, as they were simply worn out and expended, and not replaced. There was never any serious intent to adopt camouflage pattern uniforms for general issue. Basic O.D. was considered adequate.
The camouflage pattern used also turned out to be less than effective. It wasn't too bad as long as the wearer stayed still and wasn't moving. Once he did move, however, it became quite visible, and stood out like a sore thumb.
The idea that the pattern wasn't effective is something I'll push against.
Any pattern losses effectiveness when moving, movement is an attractor to the eye; my understanding is that that was one of several pretences used to get rid of something that wasn't particularly popular due to a lack of(perceived) need.
In hindsight we know that it's very effective(and modern multicam shows striving similarity to frogskin in colouration).
Though i shall concede that with dye technology at the time fading was a known issue, one of the reasons many 20th century patterns were dark in colouration compared to frogskin)
Having served as an Infantryman for ten years active duty in multiple countries and environments I think the basic olive drab is the best all-around military camo.
You can use local vegetation to augment, or if you're in a desert roll around in the dirt for a bit or ruck behind some vehicles. You'll be plenty dusty to blend in with the landscape.
Coyote brown works better.
@@ShortArmOfGod I think the point s/he is making is that you don't have to spend much time in the field and any uniform become a natural camouflage from dirt and grime. You can then augment it with natural brush to further the effect. OD green or Coyote brown is immaterial...it will all look the same after a week in the field.
I even wore snow camo (all white) with the 10th MNT and even a week in the field with that makes a world of difference even in thw woods where the snow is hit and miss.
camo isnt there to simply match the color of the background, but also to mask the outline of the human form
@@professorpick that's why we blouse our pants and use local vegetation or strips of burlap to augment. That's why gille suits are effective because they mask the silhouette.
@@CoreyBrass amazing
I think it’s worth mentioning that US airborne pathfinders had painted their uniforms with paint or spare boot polish to break up the color profile.
Whwnen I was in the military, the Marines dyed a set of woodlands camos purple for night uperations.
I learned something new today Thanks
Glad you enjoyed it John!
Thank you thank you thank you. I am a geezer that grew up watching "combat" and lots of WW2 movies and I often wonder about that. Now I know and it makes perfect sense.
The prime reason these were not issued across the ETO is mostly in part because of how these camouflage uniforms faded. These uniforms would begin to turn white after repeated heavy use. It had little or nothing to do with friendly fire incidents. That one account of FF tends to be most of the argument used when talking about these uniforms.
I reenact 41st Armored Infantry, 2nd Armored Division, which was one of the units that was issued frogskin camo in the ETO for a brief time during Operation Cobra. I have a two piece camo set for that impression, so I wear it when we do Normandy events. Pretty comfortable, but does not retain heat well at all.
Correct me if I’m wrong but one of the main purposes of the nets around the helmet is that it’s possible to stuff leaves and other natural items from the surroundings inside to use as camouflage ( like a makeshift ghillie helmet)
It's actually a myth that the camo was discontinued due to friendly fire. There was a lengthy discussion about this topic on WW2TV. Apparently there are no recorded examples of soldiers being shot specifically due to the "frogskin" camo. Rather many soldiers were shot because of the M43 field jacket, which, because of its grayish color and large chest pockets led many soldiers to mistake them for common German field tunics. Some units like the 29th were issued the light-tan or brown colored M41 jackets, and therefore weren't used to seeing the newer gray-green uniforms in other units.
Fundamentally, the camo was discontinued because it didn't conceal soldiers very well against the dark foliage of Normandy. The camo was too light and didn't blend in very well when units were on the move, which was quite frequently; especially for the 2nd Armored Division.
Surprised someone brought this up, a bunch of commenters believing the friendly fire incidents made revert back to the WW2TV stream about it
I always thought it was simply US Marine uniforms vs US Army uniforms. Also, that there was a more urban element to the European theater. But this information regarding German camo makes sense. Something I never considered.
i thought the same
Marine camis are badass
If you watch the old tv show “Combat”, Vic Morrow had a camo cover. So you know they did 😉
🤣 I think the story goes he fashioned his camo helmet cover from a piece of camo parachute that was used by his brother who was killed in an airborne assault. But, yes, very interesting tidbit. 🤣
No, the US Army after trialled with the 41st Regiment, 2nd Armoured in Normandy had deemed the uniform not worthy of replacing M37 wool uniform as the OD mustard colouring of shirt and trousers and field jacket deemed enough colourings similarly to areas of operations, while not bothering to have a massive replacement of uniforms and use up M37 stocks and later keep to replacing on a wider front of the M43 uniform issued as early as August 44' to US troops in Northern France.
The whole 'friendly fire' myth is partly overspread more then it really happened. It helps to actually search the US archives like some collectors, historians and even reenactors online have done so a few years back.
Helmet nets were ubiquitous in the ETO, and often used to hold foliage or other camouflage materials.
Great video. Looking forward to more
Thanks for the support Zachary
1st Marine parachute regiment Paramarines were a short lived Elite specialized unit within the Marine Corps at the beginning of World War II they wore unlike the rest camouflage uniforms .
Many of the Marines kept their camouflage uniforms even after the disbandment of the unit.
Wish u review Tigerstripe camo soon.
This was very informative, but it also raised some questions.
Currently all nations armies wear camo that (at least to me) looks identical, so how do they tell friend from foe?
2) Why did the USN adopt camo work uniforms? When I served (1964-1968) our work uniforms were either undress blues or whites, or for dirty work, dungarees. A sailor onboard ship doesn't need camouflage, and it's definitely a bad thing if you fall overboard, because you want to be visible to rescue parties.
Optics, radio, and infared IFF technology are much more widespread now to answer your first question
A full on conventional war between two well equipped camouflage wearing enemies hasnt happened that much in the past. Ukraine and Russia is one of the few example and both sides tie ribbons around their arm and helmets for identification.
During WW1 the U.S Marines faced a similar problem, their fatigue uniforms were of a darker color then the U.S Army's...but closer to the German Felsgrau. They were issued with Army fatigues but took to adding an EGA to helmets or chests to denote their service.
As an armor crewman ('76-80) I thought the OD Green uniform was good visually, but it was Permanent Press. Didn't wick sweat, and burned like a match. Not what you want to wear on an overly combustible tank (M-551A1).
This is very interesting, learn something new everyday!
As far as I'm concerned it was only Vic Morrow who wore a camouflaged helmet in Europe!
The US army should bring back the WWII Jungle Frog Skin camouflaged back, I think these are better patterns that the ones used today
I remember my Platoon Commander on my Riflemans Course 30 years ago make the comment when the Skippyland Army switched from greens to Auscam he actually thought greens worked better in the field.
This is an incredibly interesting subject. I’ve always wondered why Anzac troops of ww1 wore the slouch hat at Gallipoli, and in Palestine. But a brody helmet in France and Belgium. I do believe that in Gallipoli it’s because the the British empire hadn’t adopted helmets as yet. But certainly the men who charged Beersheba wore slouch hats.
I interviewed Australian soldiers from WWII who had been fighting in the middle east. When the Japanese entered the war they were sent to fight in the jungles of New Guinea, still wearing their desert uniforms, which as one veteran noted screamed 'shoot me' in the jungle.
They were also still wearing their shorts, less than ideal in an environment where mosquito born diseases caused as many casualties as the enemy
I'm not going to lie the US Marines camo looked bad ass!
I never knew this, thanks. I have always thought the WW2 universal cammo pattern was one of the best. I wish it was still available today.
The grey one? That camouflage didn’t work at all, it made the soldiers stand out more than if they were wearing solid colours. It looks cool I suppose, but not good for it’s intended purpose. Some people have dyed theirs green or brown to make it blend in better and the dyed stuff is very effective.
@@celticperspective5183 no. The Pacific pattern, I always thought it was called WW2 Universal.
@@michaelhennegan9637 Oh I see, yes that pattern was ahead of it’s time for sure
It is still available. I bought a set and used it to elk hunt the last 2 weeks. I love how I can turn it inside out depending on what environment Im in. Since I live in Arizona that can be tan deserts or up in the woods where the green side comes in handy.
@@Chevelle602 where did you find it?
I had always wondered about this!
There was a squad of marines who served the OSS in europe doing assaults behind enemy lines. They all wore full USMC combat uniforms including the camo helmets.
so sorry I haven't been commenting lately but this was a great video and I really enjoyed learning about these different types of helmets.
We''ve missed you, glad you're back
Sgt Saunders worn a USMC camouflaged helmet in the tv show COMBATfor the entire run. I think, as the lead character, they wanted a way for him to stand out.
I think the only GI in Europe who wore a camouflage helmet cover was Sgt. Chip Saunders of K company 361st infantry regiment
Honestly plain OD green or khaki depending on the environment is quite effective. This is why the army used plain green uniforms all the way up to the late 70s or early 80s. When I served in the US Army we were issued Woodland BDU and Desert chocolate chip DCU uniforms. However in recent years the army has spent millions of dollars developing new camo patterns. They issued a horrible uniform that was hated by all those that were forced to wear it. Now they have moved on to their new “multi cam” pattern. In the big scheme of things I don’t think these new modern camo patterns are that much better the camo designs from World War II. It certainly would be very cost effective to just issue Olive drab green uniforms sewn in today’s designs. Plain OD green actually looks very good as well. Sadly for the taxpayer the Pentagon will waste money developing “ better camouflage” for personnel uniforms. That money would be better spent on training.
Or Berets. Ycch.
Agreed. To further highlight the silliness of the matter to folks, I tell them I wore a different uniform for each of the three times I deployed overseas, not counting the woodland BDUs stateside.
greens. olives. browns. all out amazing. in modern warfare that ukraine has shown to combat this issue with yellow bands.around the shoulder, leg or helmet.
@@Slimpicken The WW2 version at Normandy was to have rank designations(NCO, Officers) on the back of the helmet. In the current conflict, if Russian snipers were as motivated as they were in the GPW, those color bands would be removed. It's situational.
The reason why the chocolate chip uniform did not last long was because, while it was an excellent camo uniform in the US southwest where it was developed and tested, it did not work well in southwest Asia, err, the Middle East.
actually their was a minor amount of camo in the ETO but it was in limited numbers and alotted to the pathfinders of the airborne units but the limey' para's and SAS and a few french CoDo units had their dennison's smocks
Congrats for your classic english accent! It really makes it easy to understand.
The Marine Corps used the frogskin camouflage beginning in 1943. It saw less use in the last two years of the Pacific War. The P1941 HBT uniform was more comfortable and remained in service well into the 1950's. It should be noted that there was a P1944 HBT uniform, as well. It was herringbone twill, but had several more pockets, including a large one at the seat of the trousers. It was also unpopular.
My step father was part of Carlsons Raiders. He said their first camo faded white in the tropicals. No one wanted them.
the small army unit known as the ALAMO SCOUTS often used camo uniforms in theor long range recon behind enemy lines in the south pacific theater.
other than that, I havent found any units that used these camo uniforms. maybe some rangers
The camo did blend in well, but like most patterns, when a soldier is on the move the pattern tends to attract the human eye. I think this played a role in the usmc moving away from camo uniforms by 1944.
I haven’t read any other comment mentioning this but, the lack of camo pattern in the European Theatre may have simply come down to the military’s preference for wool over cotton. You can’t easily print a pattern on wool fabric like you can cotton (you can print on wool, but it is a much more intensive operation and would have been prohibitively expense in war time).
Using wool in the European Theatre seems advantages. Its usable temperature range is far superior to cotton. It’s warm in cold weather and cool and warm weather. It’s also insulates when wet. It also has natural anti-microbial properties meaning it can be worn for weeks on end without becoming smelly and gross. For an army expected to be on the move across temperate Western Europe in all seasons, wool seems like the right choice.
Given the varied terrain the armies were expecting to encounter in Europe (including a lot of urban/village engagement) I think olive drab was the most universally usable choice. It also worked with other Allied uniforms.
In the Pacific Theatre, where most land based fighting would be in dense foliage, camouflage was probably a good choice. And since temperatures would be more consistent cotton could be used.
Interesting. I have always wondered about this.
The SS used Peas Pattern and Woodland camo, the US Paratroops did use camo for some Pathfinder special operations and some airborne troops painted their M1942 Para uniforms with camo colours. The British Parachute Regiment had camo Dennison smocks.
I have a Idea, Nations Military could simply start using Solid Color Helmet Covers. To stand out from the enemy vs Bright Color Tape on the sleeves lol
Us paratroopers wore camouflaged helmets, but their coats and pants stayed brown.
There is a simple reason they didn’t use camo in the ETO. Until recently WWII was fought in B&W. When I was young there was no colour footage of the war. It wasn’t until the 90’s that color started to show up in old war reels and camouflage became important. Yours, Brigadier Emmanuel Caaaant (Mrs.)
The IDF came to the same conclusion a short time ago when they where testing new uniforms.
I think the success of the trial would’ve been by having more effective communication with the troops across the board
It’s a great idea using como uniform but they should of shown the camo that they were trialing to all allied soldiers like the denison smok camo us brits had , great video
Not really, it was early days and they were just learning how best to use it. They could have used a camo tartim like the highlanders, that did break up the shape of the wearer quite well.
They also had no white camo at winter at the battle of the bulge and onward as I had heard.. while germans did (and soviets too on other side).
A recent episode of WW2TV actually put the blame on the olive green M43 jacket, because the cut and style was too similar to the German M43 jacket
Ridiculous. The m43 US jacket has nothing common with the German uniforms. Just put both side by side and you'll see. Moreover, the new US m43 uniform appeared quite late in the war and didn't have time to be full generalized till the last weeks of the war. If there was a true problem, it was rather with the m41 field jacket, that was soon found in Normandy beeing of a too light shade, making it easily visible in an European environment (and I won't mention it was also much too fragile...)
The german M43 look more like a british jacket
Who could have seen that 70 years later the Army would field a camouflage that would make them easier to be spotted by the enemy?
This happened to the US NAVY SEABEES during the start of DESERT STORM. When some Seabees were up on a berm the rest of US SOLDIERS in camo uniforms did not know who they were and opened up on them thinking they were Iraqi troops in standard Olive drab uniforms.
Soon after The first Gulf War was over plans were made to change the US NAVY SEABEES into woodland camo uniforms and around 1995 to 1996 it was done ending over 50 years of using Utility Green(Olive drab) as their standard field uniform.
Yep. I hadn't thought about it before, but when I clicked on the video I figured this was the reason.
I go to some reenactment events and sometimes you just see the camo and know that's a German. You can't make out the pattern, but you just know it's camo.
When I first played Call of Duty 3, I got really confused in the first level of the game where the green camouflaged soldiers were shooting at me because I thought they were Americans.
That makes sense. Although the Army stayed with the solid color green uniforms through Korea and Vietnam. I don’t think BDUs were adopted service wide until the 80s. Why did it take so long if they had the technology since wwii?
My initial super simple guess before even watching this video is: Marines were in the Pacific and the army was in Europe and neither wanted to look like each other.
The Army deployed 20 divisions to the Pacific. The Marines just get all the credit.
The US Army did equip troops in Europe with camouflage uniforms until the Battle Dress Uniform was introduced in the early 1980s.
Yes if they reversed the color of the blobs with the background it would've been easy to tell them apart from the enemy while still breaking up the silhouette, which is the entire purpose of camo.
One can kind of grasp how difficult it would be to fight an insurgent and/or a non state actor type of conflict.
Identification of the enemy must be a nightmare.
The risk of friendly fire was my thought as well. It's not worth the risk of friendly fire when the benefits of camouflage are sometimes over-stated. The point of camouflage isn't to make you invisible (although it's great when it conceals you perfectly), it's to make you harder to see/perceive, betting that the extra time it takes the enemy to see you is enough time to gain advantage. You have to weigh that probable advantage against other dangers like friendly fire.
The video is actually incorrect. The references given to suppose friendly fire incidences are only that quote. There are no formalized reports of friendly fire incidences at any point after D-Day. The uniforms were simply too fragile (made from HBT fabric, which was used for fatigue duty, not for combat) and offered too little advantage to be feasible.
@Stugna Bulah the associated quote isn't even a good source. We don't know who it's attributed to, or when. And you'd be damn sure to make a report about it, but they didn't. There are literally zero. And nobody in one of the units issued camo uniforms ever said anything about getting shot at because of their uniforms.
@Stugna Bulah okay? That makes the case for friendly fire in this instance even weaker.
the old TV show Combat had the sarge wearing a camo helmet cover ....that always bothered me.
Why did that bother you? A lot of soldiers in Europe fashioned their own hodgepodge of camo covers and smocks. In "Combat" Morrows character fashioned his helmet cover from the parachute of his brother who had been killed in an airborne assault.
It used to bother me too, since I always thought only marines in the Pacific wore camo'd helmets. I later realized the show gave the sarge the camo'd helmet so the audience could identify him. They didn't want him confused with "little John" (LOL)
I wish I had some of the old winter woodland camo.
Mine was jungle lime. Okinawa 76.
Thank you! I've wondered about this many times. It makes so much sense now that you have explained it!
Beach side frog camo has to be one of the coolest looking camos ever
Once you've been in the field more than a few weeks your uniform pretty much looks the same whether it was jungle green or expensively developed camouflage. It looks grimy. I think civilians underestimate how a fully kitted soldier with months in the field pretty much turns the colour of their environment regardless of how they looked going in
What is slightly amusing is that during the testing of the (then) new Australian camouflage uniform (Auscam) in the late 1970's and early 1980's, it was apparently observed the standard "jungle greens" of the day worked just as well after a day in the field as the new modern camo pattern. Sometimes I think not wanting to look old-fashioned is the driving force behind some uniform pattern choices; the RAN uses what's basically a blue/black/grey Auscam pattern with retro-reflective tapes and (some of) the sailors (at least) joke about it being useless because they can't see if you fall off the boat into the water and you can't hide on land because of the retro-reflective elements (some-one waving a flashlight around would see the flashes of reflection)
@@dj1NM3 The same thing was said about the USN 'blueberries' camo uniform - supposedly it was meant to hide paint and dirt and grease splotches, not the sailor.
Testers: Fabric is too hot, maybe use a different blend and weight of fibers, also maybe use a different woodland pattern than the Jerrys.
US Army: nah fam, just wear green instead. The woods are green so they probably can’t see you.
alpineflage is my signature color
Ong
I read it was because the Germans already used a camouflage that was very similar to what the US had and Target recognition (ie not shooting your mate) is more important than the benefit the camouflage would have given over olive drab.
If US grunts were using OD green, it would have een easy to convert to camos by using dirt, mud, and foliage.
@@gaoxiaen1 Exactly little need to issue a camo uniform that look a lot like the German camo, and much cheaper than designing a new pattern.
ruclips.net/video/esK2SIlSm30/видео.html
It probably would have made identification of friendly troops very difficult at night, given chaotic invasion of europe, poor communication, and the independent prerogative given to individual units.
great channel
I have a question about the D-Day landings why did they not use the Landing Vehicle Tracked (LVT) (water Buffalo) or something similar in Europe like they used them in the pacific?
To me it looks like they would have been able to save a lot of lives rather than the men having to run across the open beaches they would have been safer driving these across the beaches ?
Thanks for your support, glad you like the channel!
For D-Day the idea was the Sherman DD Tanks were to be the support for the troops so the Buffalo was seen as not needed en masse. I believe they were utilised for the landings on Utah Beach in some form, exact numbers though I’m not certain.
Sgt. Saunders wore the Pacific camo helmet cover his brother sent him the entire series of Combat.
Changing a uniform pattern in the middle of the war was probably asking for trouble.
I was saying to myself before I even clicked on the video “the reason is going to be German uniforms” and yep I was write I am such a smart cookie :)
Considering that the British paratroopers and some units among American paratroopers managed to have specific camo types that yet could be differentiated from German camouflage, the US could have done better because the adoption of camouflage was very slow afterwards among US forces until the second half of the Vietnam War.
They should have used a different pattern, and more colors say of earth green and tans and brown and more widely distributed. That would have cut down on confusion
We wore Olive Drab Sateen, after three or four days in the field crawling around in the dirt muck and mud our uniforms took on the color of our surroundings.
It created confusion between friendly and enemy troops and that is the last thing you want on a battlefield as the disastrous results you pointed out in the video showed. It simply was not needed especially when troops moved in and out of towns and cities in the more densely populated European theater. Solid or subdued colors were better against the back drop of solid building colors and the horizon. Not so much in the dense jungle and green leaf island hopping Pacific theater. But subdued solid colors were found to be better for all the armies both allies and axis with exception of specialized troops such as Nazi SS and US Marines.
Woah, woah, woah. The Army found the cammies "too hot", but yet they were issued to Marines in the south Pacific?! Something doesn't make sense there
Combat in the Pacific was more stationary and offered more opportunities to utilize concealment. Whereas everything was on the move in Europe and pattern camo stands out more as a moving target than solid camo like regular OD.
In the TV show COMBAT back in the 60s Vic morrow wore a cammo helmet
Sargent Sonders had a camiflage helmet in "Combat!"
I wish the regular army duty uniform would go back to the WW2 design
Because camo which US developed (the so-called Duckhunter/Frogskin pattern) resembles Waffen SS camo pattern. Compared it with British brush-stroke pattern, which is different and they used it as standard issue for British Paratroopers.
Right.
ruclips.net/video/esK2SIlSm30/видео.html