I hate that I'm about to say this but: Shannon is like the death metal version of Steve from Blues Clues, we haven't heard from him in so long, but it's a breath of fresh air to see he's still doing alright.
So good to hear from Shannon after so long! Also thank you guys for checking out my video! I like playing the verse with the double stroke on my right foot because it's better for my balance when playing gallops like that. The consistent double bass at that speed is definitely more well suited for my single strokes so that's why I did singles for the rest of the song. My sticks are Los Cabos Red Hickory Rock sticks, basically long 2B's with a short taper. Big ol chonkers. I'm glad you guys liked the video and think that I did his parts justice, the drum parts on that entire album are incredibly fun and unique
Man, this was such a rad interview! Shanon was a HUGE inspiration for me on the drums with both "The Fall of Ideals" and "Nocturnal". He really gave All That Remains the much needed 'muscle' to their sound at the time when they were starting to break. I met and hung with Shannon several times when BDM would roll through Ottawa, Canada and play Babylon Club and he was such a cool, genuine dude. Glad to see him doing well in life and making music on his own terms. Touring how BDM did touring is all but a young man's sport. Hard lifestyle, little money, you really gotta love it. I remember I offered to take the band out for drinks after their set in 2008 to a nearby strip club and all the guys said they just wanted to go back to the hotel to eat McDonald's and play video games. They were beat up from back to back gigs and long drives between shows. Not at all a rockstar lifestyle! But hey, they made great metal records and their set was always flawless. Shannon is my favourite BDM drummer and "Nocturnal" has so many memorable drum parts. Every song sounds unique and holds on it's own, and I think that's the reason that album was so well received. There was no filler. Thanks for having him on for such a lengthy interview. You guys discussed topics that I had wondered about for years as Shannon has no presence online. Much respect!
@metaldrummersunited5716 thank you so much for getting this done, very eye-opening to learn about his time in his various bands. Clearly one of the best drummers and a huge influence on many of todays drummers. He's The Real Deal, The Don Dapper, The Muttz Nuttz. Great chat and amazing musician! Thanks you again 🎉
I will never forget that super tight snap on Christ Deformed. My god so sick. Thanks for this interview it’s a treasure trove of info for fans of one of the worlds sickest drummers 🤘
Shannon was 100000% my hero when I was a teenager and developing as a drummer, that dude absolutely shaped the way I play drums Met him on multiple occasions, and was always such a kind and down to earth dude thank you Shannon
Shannon has always Been a sweet down to earth guy. My old band got to open for them many times and he and I even got to hang and get dinner in Vegas and just shoot the breeze. I miss him a lot and have to find his number again Dammit. Makes me so happy to see a friend happy again. Love and respect
One of my favorite drummers EVER. He still has a huge impact on my playing every day. Such a killer drummer. His playing on all TBDM albums and Serpentine Dominion is just amazing. Geezer is brilliant.
I appreciate all the work that went into puling this interview together. Locating Shannon and doing a deep dive into his history, the things he's worked on, noticing certain bands that he was in, but perhaps not present in all their media (All That Remains). Being from Massachusetts, I knew all those bands that he referenced from Mass. He seriously stepped up All That Remains. Jason was an excellent drummer to carry that torch for them after. I saw Shannon with ATR a couple of times he was often hanging at the merch booth as well. Absolutely loved that he took that next step to TBDM. Still to me, the albums he played on are some of the best albums or MY most enjoyable albums to listen to. Absolute classics. If I recall, he had left to start his own tattoo studio. I wonder if that is what he's still doing or if he's doing something else as a full time gig? It was really interesting to hear him talk about guitar and re-learning the guitar. Something I can relate to. Anyway, thank you for putting all this together. Congrats on being a new Dad. Thank you Shannon for taking 4 hrs out of your day and being such an amazing sport and sharing some of your story and history with us.
I still have my Ritual box set in my drum room. I burned the incense a long time ago, but I still have the sage stick, coffin nails, and ouija board. Badass interview, thank you for this!
Thank you for the interview! I remember seeing Black Dahlia with BTBAM in '08 and being absolutely blown away at how tight they were live. Dude is inhuman on drums!!
there is certainly a demand for shannon to post more videos on youtube, imagine a high quality playthrough of "what a horrible night to have a curse" or "this calling"? it would break the internet! i met him in london 10 or so years ago, great guy, and great interview!
So good to hear about this guy and to see he's doing well. I'm not in music anymore but I was very much for a long time in the 2000's, never got to share the stage with Shannon but he was always a big influence
what a breath of fresh air to hear from this guy. he was such an icon when i was in high school experiencing metal bands for the first time. 06-10. i remember hearing Nocturnal for the first time and being absolutely blown away by the technical aspect of his drums. then to find out he was the drummer on Fall of Ideals completely sold me as my favorite drummer at the time. so glad you're doing well, Shannon!
I love you for doing this!!!!! Shannon seems like such a great human. I needed this. I've been missing this guy like hell since he left TBDM! Thank you dude
Love Shannon. Happy to see he is doing well. ATR- The fall of ideals is a masterpiece in my opinion. Oli was a big influence on me in my younger years as a guitar player (RIP Oli). And realizing shannon was drumming on that album blew me away. If shannon did some new play throughs of our favorite songs he drummed in, id prob have a grand mal seizure.
This simultaneously brought me back to college and made me excited to listen to these bands tomorrow. Thank you both for doing this, and 001101 to the algorithm for showing me!
Shannon is so well spoken, passionate and interesting to listen to. Such great insight into the deep aspects of the bands he was involved in, and I really appreciate the way he is upfront about certain topics/not afraid to talk about the past. Also I'm really glad this interview was able to go so long, he's so good at filling in the blanks and keeping up the conversation. Really hope he gets around to releasing some new videos too! Amazing interview, thank you very much!!
I'm only 40 minutes in and I don't want it to end. I'm loving everything about it and Shannon's all access to the behind the scenes of recording albums and touring. Love the long form podcast.
I could never imagine having the kind of skills Shannon has and being so humble. An absolute legend that really kickstarted the metal drumming community.
What an awesome interview. Finally the in depth interview that we've all been waiting for. Great questions. Great stories. Awesome news drop. Can't wait for some new shannon drum tracks. Although I'm surprised he didn't bring up his recordings on The Iron Son album he did with Branden Schiepatti of bleeding through. It was only 4 songs I think but he rips as usual. Anyway thank you MDU and Shannon!
This was soooooo friggin awesome.As im a huuuge fan of Shannon, i Could have watched even 3 more hours.hah.Thank you so much Shannon for doing this amazing interview :) Greetings from the Norwegian Metal Viking drummer( From Lowdown / Angerman/ Blood Red Throne)
Have missed Shannon so much. Hands down my favourite drummer, I was so lucky to run into him at the Memorial Show. He's just like he is in this video, the nicest guy ever..he didn't know me but was so happy to say hello and give me a a couple minutes of his time. Shannon thank you for everything and inspiring me at such a young age. It makes me very happy to see you are doing well and enjoying your life.
I still regret not jumping to the stage to hug Shannon and thank him for Nocturnal that one time he came to play in Rosario, Argentina. I have a pic with Brian from that night tho, but I still wish I could share with Shannon what it means to me to listen to an album like Nocturnal, and how it totally changed the game for me, and it was hard to find him on social media too, so, never was able to thank him properly, hope you get to read this comment one day. Thank you Shannon!🫂
2008 Edmonton Alberta Cannibal Corpse, The red Chord, TBDM, Goatwhore. Greatest show I have ever seen. Shannon rules on album and live. Trevor gave me the set list, and the red chord played dreaming in dog years. what a time.
Thank you for coming to Venezuela, it was a dream come true. I was crazy to get an autograph or give you some food from here but I couldn't those days were crazy af.
this is incredible. TBDM is my favourite band bar none and this was so awesome to watch. Hearing about the process of Ritual literally gave me goosebumps... imo the best album ever made. This was a treat.
I would LOVE another Asphalt Graves album. I didn't even know who all was in the band when I first heard it on SoundCloud. Then when I saw the lineup, I was like HOLY CHIT!
5 minutes in and I just want to say thank you for this! I’ve literally been searching for videos of him for a long time hoping something would pop up. Finally this! This is golden! 🙏
I never read the lyrics to TBDM but I took a look after shannon recommended deathmask devine, and then read some funeral thirst and now I get how he might have been internally struggling. For some reason I always thought that funeral thirst was about zombies or something trivial, but it's literally about killing yourself--imagine singing such lyrics tour after tour
I know this post is old, but trevor was on antidepressants and stated In interviews that he kept changing RX bc they didn't work. Also songs like "reciept" and "to a breathless oblivion" are song from Trevor's POV wanting to die.
fall of ideals is one of the finest metal core albums i've heard. not only is it a solid album but the drumming on it was so creative and next level. less is more in a way. and it makes sense why this album is so polished and is a trip from start to finish. it's hard to find a perfect album like this.
Epic of you to put this together! Shannon seems like such a nice guy! Thanks again for checking out my cover 🤘🏻 Oh yeah and very tall guy indeed but no special risers of any kind on the axis pedals in this video ;)
I’ve been wondering what happened to him for a while now. I subscribed to his channel, I’d love to see some drum videos. He always made things look effortless. I remember a video from Jakarta where a fan (I assume?) is sitting on stage recording him. The audio isn’t great but seeing him play TBDM songs like they’re nothing is so entertaining to see.
It's great to see fucking Shannon again & hear all these background stories. Started listening to bdm when nocturnal released, listened daily and still do! Mayhem fest every summer!! Great interview ! 🤘
Thank you for Nocturnal, Lucas.
favorite black dahlia album.
I second this.
And Delforate! Nocturnal and Deflorate are both top notch records
AND Deflorate, sick drumming on this one
Amen bro! Literally their best albums bar none
Trevor Forever 🖤💚🖤💚
We got a Shannon Lucas interview before GTA VI
The absolute 🐐
I died, lol
💀
I hate that I'm about to say this but:
Shannon is like the death metal version of Steve from Blues Clues, we haven't heard from him in so long, but it's a breath of fresh air to see he's still doing alright.
😂😂😂
I've never seen a good interview with Shannon, well done 👏
So good to hear from Shannon after so long! Also thank you guys for checking out my video! I like playing the verse with the double stroke on my right foot because it's better for my balance when playing gallops like that. The consistent double bass at that speed is definitely more well suited for my single strokes so that's why I did singles for the rest of the song. My sticks are Los Cabos Red Hickory Rock sticks, basically long 2B's with a short taper. Big ol chonkers. I'm glad you guys liked the video and think that I did his parts justice, the drum parts on that entire album are incredibly fun and unique
You a beast bruh
Any album he’s on is a banger, good to hear from him again 🔥🙌🏼
Man, this was such a rad interview! Shanon was a HUGE inspiration for me on the drums with both "The Fall of Ideals" and "Nocturnal". He really gave All That Remains the much needed 'muscle' to their sound at the time when they were starting to break. I met and hung with Shannon several times when BDM would roll through Ottawa, Canada and play Babylon Club and he was such a cool, genuine dude. Glad to see him doing well in life and making music on his own terms. Touring how BDM did touring is all but a young man's sport. Hard lifestyle, little money, you really gotta love it. I remember I offered to take the band out for drinks after their set in 2008 to a nearby strip club and all the guys said they just wanted to go back to the hotel to eat McDonald's and play video games. They were beat up from back to back gigs and long drives between shows. Not at all a rockstar lifestyle! But hey, they made great metal records and their set was always flawless. Shannon is my favourite BDM drummer and "Nocturnal" has so many memorable drum parts. Every song sounds unique and holds on it's own, and I think that's the reason that album was so well received. There was no filler. Thanks for having him on for such a lengthy interview. You guys discussed topics that I had wondered about for years as Shannon has no presence online. Much respect!
@metaldrummersunited5716 thank you so much for getting this done, very eye-opening to learn about his time in his various bands. Clearly one of the best drummers and a huge influence on many of todays drummers. He's The Real Deal, The Don Dapper, The Muttz Nuttz. Great chat and amazing musician! Thanks you again 🎉
Thank you for watching, appreciate the kind words!
I will never forget that super tight snap on Christ Deformed. My god so sick. Thanks for this interview it’s a treasure trove of info for fans of one of the worlds sickest drummers 🤘
Shannon was 100000% my hero when I was a teenager and developing as a drummer, that dude absolutely shaped the way I play drums
Met him on multiple occasions, and was always such a kind and down to earth dude
thank you Shannon
Shannon has always Been a sweet down to earth guy. My old band got to open for them many times and he and I even got to hang and get dinner in Vegas and just shoot the breeze. I miss him a lot and have to find his number again Dammit. Makes me so happy to see a friend happy again. Love and respect
YES!!!! My favourite drummer!
One of my favorite drummers EVER. He still has a huge impact on my playing every day. Such a killer drummer.
His playing on all TBDM albums and Serpentine Dominion is just amazing. Geezer is brilliant.
I appreciate all the work that went into puling this interview together. Locating Shannon and doing a deep dive into his history, the things he's worked on, noticing certain bands that he was in, but perhaps not present in all their media (All That Remains).
Being from Massachusetts, I knew all those bands that he referenced from Mass. He seriously stepped up All That Remains. Jason was an excellent drummer to carry that torch for them after. I saw Shannon with ATR a couple of times he was often hanging at the merch booth as well. Absolutely loved that he took that next step to TBDM. Still to me, the albums he played on are some of the best albums or MY most enjoyable albums to listen to. Absolute classics. If I recall, he had left to start his own tattoo studio. I wonder if that is what he's still doing or if he's doing something else as a full time gig? It was really interesting to hear him talk about guitar and re-learning the guitar. Something I can relate to.
Anyway, thank you for putting all this together. Congrats on being a new Dad. Thank you Shannon for taking 4 hrs out of your day and being such an amazing sport and sharing some of your story and history with us.
@@thrashnbash314 Man, thanks so much for the kind words, I really appreciate that. I believe, Shannon is in cybersecurity now.
@@metaldrummersunited5716 That's cool to know! Thank you for the follow up! I wish him the best. Seems like a really cool, down to earth dude.
Shannon is great guy, went to a show in philly that ended up being sold out and he hung out with me outside for a bit and got a photo
Shannon has been my favorite drummer since I heard Nocturnal/2012(?)
I was so mad when Alan joined TBDM but Alan has grown on me over the years
DUDE. You are incredible for putting this together! Shannon is a huge inspiration in my playing and many others that I know. So thank you!
Thanks for checking it out, appreciate you!
Deflorate was the favorite amongst circles in my area. At the time, we were blown away by it.
BUT, my favorite album is still Ritual.
Can't wait for Wolven Spirit. I can't believe they didn't quantize his drums, he so unreal tight. what a gottam machine
I still have my Ritual box set in my drum room. I burned the incense a long time ago, but I still have the sage stick, coffin nails, and ouija board.
Badass interview, thank you for this!
Thank you for the interview! I remember seeing Black Dahlia with BTBAM in '08 and being absolutely blown away at how tight they were live. Dude is inhuman on drums!!
there is certainly a demand for shannon to post more videos on youtube, imagine a high quality playthrough of "what a horrible night to have a curse" or "this calling"? it would break the internet! i met him in london 10 or so years ago, great guy, and great interview!
This is legendary. Shannon’s one of my favorite drummers. Up there with Nick Barker to me. 🙌
This was wonderful. Thank MDU and Shannon
i enjoyed this interview alot..i always wondered what happened to shannon..he seems like a chill ass dude..
Thanks-well done interview!🤘🏻Shannon is a natural drummer imo, and a class act human being👍🏻
Saw Shannon play with BDM in Puerto Rico. I was standing with the speaker behind me. Changed my life 🤘
En Venezuela aqui, es un mostro
Met him once after a show. Very welcoming, solid dude.
I feel like that’s how most drummers become drummers, no one else is available or willing.
Fuck yeah!! Glad to see you still Alive and Kickin Shannon!! Thank you for everything!
So good to hear about this guy and to see he's doing well. I'm not in music anymore but I was very much for a long time in the 2000's, never got to share the stage with Shannon but he was always a big influence
bro, 3 hrs of shannon. been waiting years for this shit. i was just wondering about shannon the other day watching old TBDM videos. mans a legend
what a breath of fresh air to hear from this guy. he was such an icon when i was in high school experiencing metal bands for the first time. 06-10. i remember hearing Nocturnal for the first time and being absolutely blown away by the technical aspect of his drums. then to find out he was the drummer on Fall of Ideals completely sold me as my favorite drummer at the time. so glad you're doing well, Shannon!
Thanks for what you do bro. 🤘🔥🤘
I love you for doing this!!!!! Shannon seems like such a great human. I needed this. I've been missing this guy like hell since he left TBDM! Thank you dude
so happy he is still here with us, watched him when TBDM played in Indonesia in 2012
What a badass interview. Also, I absolutely love Deflorate!
@@wumbomaster1395 Thank you so much, man. TEAM DEFLORATE GOOOOO!!!
This man is so lowkey for being such a beast
Love Shannon. Happy to see he is doing well. ATR- The fall of ideals is a masterpiece in my opinion. Oli was a big influence on me in my younger years as a guitar player (RIP Oli). And realizing shannon was drumming on that album blew me away. If shannon did some new play throughs of our favorite songs he drummed in, id prob have a grand mal seizure.
awesome interview. so sick to see shannon thriving and happy.
This simultaneously brought me back to college and made me excited to listen to these bands tomorrow. Thank you both for doing this, and 001101 to the algorithm for showing me!
Shannon is so well spoken, passionate and interesting to listen to. Such great insight into the deep aspects of the bands he was involved in, and I really appreciate the way he is upfront about certain topics/not afraid to talk about the past. Also I'm really glad this interview was able to go so long, he's so good at filling in the blanks and keeping up the conversation. Really hope he gets around to releasing some new videos too! Amazing interview, thank you very much!!
This is the dude. Hes so fast and tight its unreal.
I'm only 40 minutes in and I don't want it to end. I'm loving everything about it and Shannon's all access to the behind the scenes of recording albums and touring. Love the long form podcast.
I could never imagine having the kind of skills Shannon has and being so humble. An absolute legend that really kickstarted the metal drumming community.
What an awesome interview. Finally the in depth interview that we've all been waiting for. Great questions. Great stories. Awesome news drop. Can't wait for some new shannon drum tracks. Although I'm surprised he didn't bring up his recordings on The Iron Son album he did with Branden Schiepatti of bleeding through. It was only 4 songs I think but he rips as usual. Anyway thank you MDU and Shannon!
That was a great album/ep, I honestly forgot about it myself. Thanks for the kind words!
This was soooooo friggin awesome.As im a huuuge fan of Shannon, i Could have watched even 3 more hours.hah.Thank you so much Shannon for doing this amazing interview :) Greetings from the Norwegian Metal Viking drummer( From Lowdown / Angerman/ Blood Red Throne)
I met this man once just chillin at a st Andrew’s show. Such a cool dude
Thank you Shannon!! I blast nocturnal everyday at the gym. Your a legend brother. I enjoyed hearing your stories. TBDM 🤘🤘🤘
I am so ready for Wolven Spirit \m/ Great interview!
Amazing episode !!!
Great interview!
Thank you guys!🤘🏻
Shannon is by far, my favorite drummer of all tkme
Have missed Shannon so much. Hands down my favourite drummer, I was so lucky to run into him at the Memorial Show. He's just like he is in this video, the nicest guy ever..he didn't know me but was so happy to say hello and give me a a couple minutes of his time. Shannon thank you for everything and inspiring me at such a young age. It makes me very happy to see you are doing well and enjoying your life.
Having heard SL’s view towards social media I like the guy even more now 🤘
I loved Deflorate when it came out. Listened to it on repeat hundreds of time. My favorite BDM album to this day.
One of if not my all time favorite drummers. Really cool to see how down to earth and just genuinely nice the dude is.
I still regret not jumping to the stage to hug Shannon and thank him for Nocturnal that one time he came to play in Rosario, Argentina.
I have a pic with Brian from that night tho, but I still wish I could share with Shannon what it means to me to listen to an album like Nocturnal, and how it totally changed the game for me, and it was hard to find him on social media too, so, never was able to thank him properly, hope you get to read this comment one day. Thank you Shannon!🫂
I'm sure he will read it, my man
Great interview man! Great to see Shannon's face after all these years ❤
Was thinking about Shannon just the other day… then this popped in my feed 😉
2008 Edmonton Alberta Cannibal Corpse, The red Chord, TBDM, Goatwhore. Greatest show I have ever seen. Shannon rules on album and live. Trevor gave me the set list, and the red chord played dreaming in dog years. what a time.
Thank you for coming to Venezuela, it was a dream come true. I was crazy to get an autograph or give you some food from here but I couldn't those days were crazy af.
This dude crushes every project he's on. Happy to hear from him!
this is incredible. TBDM is my favourite band bar none and this was so awesome to watch. Hearing about the process of Ritual literally gave me goosebumps... imo the best album ever made. This was a treat.
I would LOVE another Asphalt Graves album. I didn't even know who all was in the band when I first heard it on SoundCloud. Then when I saw the lineup, I was like HOLY CHIT!
great video. Took me 4 seats to finish. Glad to see him pop up after a long time 🤘
Awesome i/v. Amazing drummer from 3 of my favorite bands: ATR, TBDM, and can't forget Battlecross!
Good job on putting this together! Shannon is the man, amazing drummer.
Thanks dude 👊🏼
Thanks for doing this interview. Absolute beast! His ride cymbal alone on Ritual is unreal. So cool to see him doing so well. 👍🏻🤘🏻
Dude that Steve Vai Ibanez guitar is insane! Can’t believe he’s a shredder, more respect than before.
Shannon Lucas 🤘🔥🤘
3 fucking hours! I'm really happy see Shannon again! Congrats the finally dream came true man
Two of my all-time fave lyricists, Dave Brockie and Trevor.
This is fantastic!!! So stoked Shannon is still making music! I’ll be 1st to pre-order a Vinyl!
Totally with you Shannon on your reasons for avoiding social media
Can't believe I forgot about this guy! Awesome drummer and awesome guy!
Great interview dude, thank you for doing this
I love this man so much!
HOLY FUUUCK I HAVE MISSED THIS MAN
Thank you so much for this! Love everything that Shannon has done over the years.
5 minutes in and I just want to say thank you for this! I’ve literally been searching for videos of him for a long time hoping something would pop up. Finally this! This is golden! 🙏
I never read the lyrics to TBDM but I took a look after shannon recommended deathmask devine, and then read some funeral thirst and now I get how he might have been internally struggling. For some reason I always thought that funeral thirst was about zombies or something trivial, but it's literally about killing yourself--imagine singing such lyrics tour after tour
I know this post is old, but trevor was on antidepressants and stated In interviews that he kept changing RX bc they didn't work. Also songs like "reciept" and "to a breathless oblivion" are song from Trevor's POV wanting to die.
fall of ideals is one of the finest metal core albums i've heard. not only is it a solid album but the drumming on it was so creative and next level. less is more in a way. and it makes sense why this album is so polished and is a trip from start to finish. it's hard to find a perfect album like this.
Maaaan thanks so much for doing this. Shannon is such a legendary drummer
@@freakinpro I'm happy you liked it, my man
Will be awesome!
Shannon is also a legend in the metal scene lol man these interviews are awesome!
Fuuuuuk yeh, dude kills it. Met him at a tattoo shop in Roanoke, VA right after he was done in ATR super cool guy
Epic of you to put this together! Shannon seems like such a nice guy! Thanks again for checking out my cover 🤘🏻
Oh yeah and very tall guy indeed but no special risers of any kind on the axis pedals in this video ;)
Hellyeah, Yeah I just noticed that there isn't any
@@metaldrummersunited5716 Oh I just realized there’s a thing under my pedals indeed but that’s a roland noise eater for the neightbors 😁
I’ve been wondering what happened to him for a while now. I subscribed to his channel, I’d love to see some drum videos. He always made things look effortless. I remember a video from Jakarta where a fan (I assume?) is sitting on stage recording him. The audio isn’t great but seeing him play TBDM songs like they’re nothing is so entertaining to see.
I understand why he doesnt want to be on social media, but dam i wish he was hes a legend 🔥 it would be sick to see him play more
The most influential drummer 🤟🏼
Por fin lo encontraron, genial entrevista, grande Shannon 🤘
what a great interview
THANK YOU FOR THIS 💚
What a real ass mofo, love this dude. So refreshing and awesome to hear from him after so long. Great interview!
Also, only Chance is real
Didn't realize that the swarm cover got released on the JP release of Ritual, we didn't get that until Nightbringers here in the US.
Met those guys in syracuse on the ritual tour. Best group of guys!!!!
It's great to see fucking Shannon again & hear all these background stories. Started listening to bdm when nocturnal released, listened daily and still do! Mayhem fest every summer!! Great interview ! 🤘
Dude!!! This is fucking awesome thank you for this!!!!
Everyone that I know that knows Shannon, has met Shannon, or has even associated with him has nothing but good things to say about him.