when a ship wears out its gun barrels and goes in for replacement. Exactly what is replaced? Just the barrel or the entire gun, barrel, breach, and other fittings?
Q&A: Given that the Pacific Ocean did way more damage to the USN in 1945 alone than the IJN ever did, I looked back into the record of 1945 and noticed that there are 2 massive typhoons sweeping over Japan during the planned time of Operation Olympic, is there a battle order for Olympic on how many ship were to be thrown against Kyushu and what kind of damge or delays were to be expected if Japan did not gave up and Olympic has to go on?
I heard Baby Drach also commenting! Congratulations from my wife and I. We met you at the Naval Aviation Museum in February 2024, and my wife asked you if you had any plans for a children’s curriculum of naval history. You and Mrs Drac were already onto that!! It was an absolute pleasure meeting you. Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge, insights, and wisdom with us.
Most people have the impressions that lakes are relatively shallow. If you look at Lake Michigan's hydrography in the area where the two carriers were operating you will find the depth close to 1000'. Trying to locate and salvage an aircraft is a daunting task.
I would like to congratulate Drach on reaching the 500k mark .. and personally thank our author for the many , many hours of fascinating history that he brings to life ..
“Mosca” means “fly”. That always leads me to feel that it really means “small, annoying, flying thing”. The larger ones are the flies. The smaller ones are the mosquitos.
The 1926 Dutch Admiralen-class destroyers all carried a float plane scout. By the time of WWII, however, this idea had been abandoned as impractical. The destroyers featured no catapult and the float planes had to be lowered and recovered by crane. More capable shore-based scout aircraft and flying boats took over the role of these float planes.
40:00 USS Halford (DD-480) commissioned April '43. Had catapult installed in July '43 to test feasibility of scout planes on destroyers . Removed in October '43. Only six destroyers were so modified.
Several of the Lake Michigan plane wrecks have been recovered and restored to flying condition. A Dauntless from the lake is on display at Midway Airport; named for the battle, while a Wildcat is on display at O’Hare Airport; named for the USN pilot.
"HMS Greater London" if you please... very large ship, many say it's overrated. Not to be confused with HMS City of London, which is very small, old, full of silly hats, and surprisingly powerful, or HMS City of Westminster (same class as HMS CoL, not as rich, but very well connected)...
Yes! But there is still an implied opposite, which will indeed be smaller, but more central. It would be more than "downtown Buffalo," and if you were also referencing "Greater Buffalo" you might use "Buffalo proper" to refer just to the area within the city charter's limits. I suppose they could have called the ship the "Buffalo SMSA" - standard metropolitan statistical area - or "Buffalo and Environs," but those would have been far less likely to inspire loyalty from officers and crew, or respectful awe from others. And I would presume that Greater Buffalo would include the American side of Niagara Falls; but you might not want to name a ship directly after a geographical feature of such peril to even large riverine craft.
I think the way to look at the Japanese 25 mm Type 96 and 1.1" Chicago Piano is that both *were* the medium AA gun from the 30s, with the light role being filled by heavy machine guns around 12.7 or 13.2 mm. Then aircraft in the 40s were faster and more capable so the light and medium AA guns both had to inflate to be useful, and the US kind of lucked into the Oerlikon and Bofors guns thanks to their alliance with the British and their war experience. Then the US did the "guns manufacturer goes brr" thing and was able to put lots of these guns on everything afloat, compared with the Japanese manufacturing a few hundred copies of the Bofors gun.
Germany also produced a limited number of 40mm Bofors in a Norwegian factory which happened to have a licence. Bofors and Oerlikon are still around today; these WW2 licence fees went a long way. 🙂
@@ottovonbismarck2443 It is weird to me how Germany never really went into the 40mm Bofors considering Sweden was right there and a relatively friendly (if reluctantly) neutral.
Regarding pressed men, there was another category of men forcibly kept on after a ship paid off after a long commission. From time to time, various First Sea Lords would foolishly order all sailors to be held aboard ships in harbor under armed guard after their previous ships returned home, instead of the usual practice of "paying them off". These men would then be sent to ships leaving on new commissions. This was very hard on the men, who hadn't seen their families in years, and would then not do so again for several more. Officers were of course immune to that questionably legal practice, which got these Sea Lords labelled as scrubs who couldn't solve their manning problems using smarter means... Because the practice caused a great lowering of morale throughout the fleet, increasing desertions and lowered volunteer rates.
In 1931-33 there was the Akron class Airships. USS Akron and USS Macon, they could carry 5 Sparrowhawk aircraft. It was intended to use these Airships as long range scouts, the Curtis F9C biplanes had a range of 297 miles, top speed of 176.5 MPH. Tragically both airships crashed in 1933 and 1935, killing the Airship program for the US Navy. Before they built Los Angeles Class Nuclear Submarines. The US Navy had the USS Los Angeles (Built in Germany as the ZR-3) the only Airship for the US Navy that was decommissioned and not have a tragic fate.
Your comments on the name of the Greater Buffalo suggest you think it was named after the animal. It was most likely named after the eponymous city on the shores of Lake Erie and the city's environs. I believe British English also uses this adjective in the same way (e.g. Greater Manchester)
"What would be the general disposition of forces for the Battle of Coral Sea if the Japanese had decided to send all of their fleet carriers to assist in the Invasion of Port Moresby?" In considering this scenario, Allied codebreaking has to be considered, too. If HYPO and friends can discern that MO is bringing a far larger fast carrier force to the Coral Sea, Nimitz might think twice about sending only TF11 and RF17 to parry it.
The real problem with more aggressive use of the IJN battle line is quite similar to why the surviving USN Standards didn’t show up until 1943+: not enough available fuel to use them. In the USN case the problem of course was lack of fleet oilers or fuel stocks in theater. For Japan it was limited fuel stocks period. While not as fuel constrained as the Regia Marina, aggressive use of the IJN battle line early would have required some other valuable assets NOT being used.
Parents home is in El Cerrito CA and yes there WAS as smaller hill next to Albany Hill which was the Little Hill, but it is today a level USPS Mail Sorting Facility.
For those scout aircraft on non-carrier capital ships - what was done with the plane after launch? I can see a catapault device helping achieve launch speed without requiring a flight deck as a runway, but once you're done your scouting mission, you generally want to get back on your ship...and your CO probably wants you to still have a plane for the next scouting mission. Did these ships have cranes built in to retrieve a plane that landed on water? Or was there some other method of recovering these scout craft?
They had cranes. The scout aircraft were all float planes. They landed in the ocean next to the ship, then the crane was used to pull the plane back on board. Look closely at the pictures of WW2 cruisers and battleships and you should be able to see the cranes.
Upon hearing of the crashed aircraft in lake Michigan I think it might be a good idea to attempt to recover and restore a devistator as there are none in museums
I always liked the idea of a fast light carrier/seaplane carrier for use with cruiser squadrons especially for the US Scouting force but the US was barely building cruisers so it didn’t have the money and it only works for cruisers acting in a squadron while if deployed individually a cruiser can still use it’s floatplane for recon and spotting.
WRT small destroyer sized ships with aircraft, I suspect something useful could have been done with a treaty sloop. A 2000 ton ship with 2 twin 4" guns and a 20 knot powerplant... you wonder if they could have fit in 2 scout aircraft and a hangar within those limitations. Might have been surprisingly useful as an escort, in a mix with other escort types. Like the US Treasury class cutters, which were really treaty sloops, but with more of an emphasis on aircraft.
Yeah but also in the lake is United Airlines Flight 389, a Boeing 727-100. If anyone is not aware, on August 16th 1965, United Airlines Flight 389, a Boeing 727-100 with 30 people aboard was operating a flight from New York to Chicago when UA389 while descending from 35,000 feet down to 6000 feet crashed into Lake Michigan on its approach killing all aboard, no-one knows why it crashed."
17:37 I saw a documentary last year about aircraft recovered from Lake Michigan; up until a few years ago they were near perfectly preserved in cold, anaerobic fresh water, but an invasive species of mussel has got into the lake and is now rapidly degrading the wrecks (amongst causing a whole bunch of other ecological problems)
No half a million extra men would not have tipped the balance on the Western Front in 1915. The issues faced on the Western Front in 1915 largely were not manpower, believe it or not, but materiel. Throwing a few hundred thousand extra troops into the trenches would not have solved the shortages in critical areas all the combatants were facing in 1915. To take just one example (albeit an important one) you simply have to look at the artillery situation. Simply put Britain did not have the artillery to change things on the Western Front in 1915, they did not have the number of guns required, especially medium and heavy artillery pieces, neither did they have the ammunition for those guns. Germany and France were not quite as badly off as Britain was during that period but even they still lacked the requisite number of guns and supply of ammunition required to break the deadlock. The shortages were not just limited to guns, but also to small arms ammunition, grenades, and a wide plethora of other critical supplies. It took time for the fighting nations to build up the production and logistics capacity to properly equip, feed, and supply the millions of troops on the line with the weapons, equipment and ammunition required. In 1915 that manufacturing and logistics capacity simply did not exist.
If the straits had been forced, I rather like the idea of sending the Australians to fight against the Austro-Hungarians in Ukraine. Unlike the stalemated Western Front, that area had a fast moving front line and the Australian light cavalry would have been much more useful than they were dismounted at Gallipoli.
"Greater" Buffalo almost certainly refers to Buffalo and its surroundings, not to a mythical "Lesser" Buffalo, which would be just the City of Buffalo, exclusive of the communities in its hinterland.
I know movie reviews aren't really your thing, but a review of Godzilla -One would be pretty badass considering just how dependent the plot was on historical Japanese Navy vessels
The Deadliest catch vessel Wizard was originally built as a Navy yard oiler, so I guess "yard" doesn't mean not seaworthy because she handles the Bering sea pretty well.
I am a child of war, in a way, and I tell you, war is terrible, I can't say enough that war is terrible. War ruins generations of families, as it has mine. The fact that I am here to witness is nearly a miracle. Yes, I find conflict fascinating, which is why I am saying something here, but war ruins people, please believe me.
One thing about an expanded Battle of the Coral Sea is that with the arrival of more carriers for either side. The Office in tactical command changes. For the IJN it’s Nagumo and for the U.S. Navy it’s Halsey. So that adds another layer to the what if.
@@WALTERBROADDUS By the time the Battle of Coral Sea had ended. Halsey was 2 days out from the area. If he left 1 or 2 days (of the original 5 days) after returning to Pearl from the Doolittle Raid. He might have had a chance to come in on the Japanese flank and pincer Shokaku and Zuikaku from the north with Enterprise and Hornet. With Fletcher coming up from the south with Yorktown and Lexington. What scenario 3 that Drach bought up is the most likely way that the US would have a fighting chance to beat the Kido Butai.
The -ito suffix also implies a larger version of the Dorito. BTW "Greater Buffalo" is a way of saying "Buffalo-Niagara Metro Area", in other words Erie and Niagara Counties or Buffalo+suburbs and Niagara Falls depending on how you want to look at it.
I wonder to what extent fuel constraints prevented or at least inhibited the IJN from committing larger numbers of ships to operations, even earlier in the war.
It's feeling like people are separating themselves into camps, and how can I express what I have lost from war; but no one will hear or understand until they have felt what I have felt, and here we are.
Congratulations to B K Jeong for getting their question answered first! Surprised it wasn't something like "why were battleships so obsolete by WWII?" or something like that. 😊 😉
An aircraft carrier with a small airwing dedicated for scouting? That's the exact mission profile the rigid airships (zepplins) were meant to fill! Pity that the Navy just refused to maintain them properly. If they hadn't treated them like hot-air balloons (just patch 'em up and send 'em back out, no way that could go wrong), they would've been exactly that missing piece.
If the Ottoman Empire had surrendered in 1915, then the Middle East would not have been an active theater of war after the surrender. There would no doubt have been civil unrest among the Arabs that would have bothered the Turks, but most of the Allied troops and associated military logistics would have been redeployed to Europe. Instead of mostly pointless fighting in diverse and distant places such as Iraq and Palestine, the Allied war effort would have been much more focused.
In regards to the first question, is there a particular reason why you ruled out the Avengers due to height considerations? Shokaku's hangars are more roomy than Implacable's, yet that carrier was able to operate Avengers from her hangars with a hangar height over a foot less than Shokaku. Am I missing something?
Not related to the video, but I'm currently reading a sci-fi novel called "Shards of Earth" by Adrian Tchaikovsky which features a space warship called "Thunderchild".
If carriers did not develop inti what they were and the Pacific war was fought with mainly big gun Capital ship. Would the Super Yamato and the Montanas been build in numbers and how much longer would the war gone.
Non-scholarly guess regarding the discussion of "Greater," something not as common now but happened decades in the past in the U.S. was calling a city and its suburbs "Greater _____ ." There was no "Lesser _____" because just saying the city name could strictly refer to the geographic area within established boundaries for the city minus the suburbs. Not sure that's what happened with the Greater Buffalo, but without research it's my theory.
The big energy and economic costs are getting out of the earth gravity well. Get heavy lift to earth orbit, heavy enough for a true space vehicle you can theorically get usable mining capabilities into space. This unlocks huge mineral resources. Think what happens if you could get titanium as plentiful as iron. You mine it is space send it down the gravity well, heck use the heat reentry to remove and/or separate impurities and technology looks very different. You now make your reusable boosters with titanium increasing boost yield and now you can afford to send hundreds of tons of other materials, water, air, live soil. This can allow much easier human habitation allowing processing in space. The microgravity can have huge advantages and leading to industrialization in space. Earth's exports become literally drawers of water. Water become more expensive than gold, live soil for growing food becomes even more expensive, air is no longer free. Single asteroid might have more iron, nickel, titanium, platinum, cobalt and others minerals than previous mined on earth, easier to get too once you land.
May the preserved UK carrier be Victorious. This saving the RN from the longest, most pointless and politically destructive reconstruction in its entire history….
Thanks for answering my questions! I doubt putting the battleships with the Kido Butai would have changed Midway at all: they don’t really pose a threat to the American carriers, and given that the entire reason the Americans sortied at Midway was to target the Kido Butai there’s not really anything stopping them from doing the same thing they did historically- striking down the Japanese carriers and then leaving while ignoring the Japanese battleships. Of course the battleships could add some more AA in the air, but given that this is Japanese AA AND quite early in the war it’s not going to be a lot.
Consisering the primary obstacle to victory for both sides at midway was simply finding the enemy, addiing more ships to eithet fleet that ar not additional flat tops, may significantly *hamper* their chances at victory, by making them easier to spot for opposing strike packages, whilst contributing virtually nothing to the outcome. And the only way in which the battlewagons could have been iseful, adding a tripwitlre picket screen for the carriers to get advance warning, and vomit out a CAP in time, there simply wern't enough hulls.
Re Coral Sea. If badly outnumbered, the USN will refuse combat at least initially. The IJN lacks the resources to support a large invasion or to interdict supply to Australia. What the US wants is a meat grinder, it will win any war of attrition. Japan has two problems: it's merchant marine cannot keep up with peace-time needs (and is hopelessly inadequate at war) and it is strong enough to win anywhere but only at the cost of getting its arse kicked everywhere else. Winning at Coral Sea does nothing to solve Japan's problems.
00:39:03 another reason why a aircraft destroyer - even with a cruiser style single scout iteration on a destroyer hull is suspect, but disproportionately more so once several aircraft are carried - like a destroyer hulled flat top, is the number of support personnel, flight deck crew, maintenance staff, Flight ops command and control, - it isn't just the pilot and observer and a couple of riggers (aircraftmen). But significantly once helicopters became a thing aircraft were infinitely useful again despite problems like stowage, vulnerable fuel etc, and even downsized to destroyers/ frigates that were tasked with ASW -so British Type 12s.
Drach, always remember, a metallic object going down in fresh water does not suffer the horrible electrolysis that going down in sea water does. Drop your cellphone in a lake, you can probably save it. The second it drops into the Ocean, it is done. This not debatable to me, not a mere chemical theory. I was flooded in Hurricane Sandy and just a tiny dip in sea water rendered every object so affected hors du combat. Completely. Yet a similar flood at my wife's lake house once dried out, all the devices worked perfectly for years. Jus thought you would like to now, as it might explain why the Navy still says they are theirs. The electronics still might work, meaning stealing them intact might be a problem for the Navy. Dissimilar metals in salt water makes an electric cell. In fresh water makes nothing. I know you know that. I just thought I might call it to your attention.
No, I don't know what the outro is silent 😮
For Q&A:
How useful would the 1912 Dutch battleship program had it actually been built?
when a ship wears out its gun barrels and goes in for replacement. Exactly what is replaced? Just the barrel or the entire gun, barrel, breach, and other fittings?
If it takes a fly a week to walk a fortnight, how long does it take to sandpaper and elephant down to a greyhound?
That made me very confused!
Q&A: Given that the Pacific Ocean did way more damage to the USN in 1945 alone than the IJN ever did, I looked back into the record of 1945 and noticed that there are 2 massive typhoons sweeping over Japan during the planned time of Operation Olympic, is there a battle order for Olympic on how many ship were to be thrown against Kyushu and what kind of damge or delays were to be expected if Japan did not gave up and Olympic has to go on?
I heard Baby Drach also commenting! Congratulations from my wife and I. We met you at the Naval Aviation Museum in February 2024, and my wife asked you if you had any plans for a children’s curriculum of naval history. You and Mrs Drac were already onto that!! It was an absolute pleasure meeting you. Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge, insights, and wisdom with us.
Baby drack will cover naval history from Vietnam through WW-3.
Start with a rubber bathtub duck. No destroyers in the North Sea, right away.
@@jpl5762nah she will be making it she will become the First Sea Lord
@@frankbarnwell____what diameter of duck will pen the inflatable 😅
Hearing Drach say 'gatito', which I call my cat, has made my day!
As a spanish spesker, whe you said "la mosca is a flying kaiju" I lost it 😂😂😂
La Mothra!
@@Wolfeson28 Yes indeed! That's exactly what I thought. No, it's not a South American flying kaiju, it's just Mothra.
Most people have the impressions that lakes are relatively shallow. If you look at Lake Michigan's hydrography in the area where the two carriers were operating you will find the depth close to 1000'. Trying to locate and salvage an aircraft is a daunting task.
I would like to congratulate Drach on reaching the 500k mark .. and personally thank our author for the many , many hours of fascinating history that he brings to life ..
1:01:53 Drach Jr clearly has some opinions to contribute about Japanese naval strategy, clearly presenting an interesting interpretation.
Words an Admiral never wants to hear. "What could possibly go wrong?"
And now we have something NEW to look out for in Drydocks- listen for the cameos by Baby Drach! :D
“Mosca” means “fly”. That always leads me to feel that it really means “small, annoying, flying thing”. The larger ones are the flies. The smaller ones are the mosquitos.
Which is ironic the Mosi was one of the best plane in the war. The wooden wonder. Air Force of one.
Love you, man.
Thank you for your hard work.
Ted Wagner, retired tugboatter.
Ah Sunday afternoon, feet up cuppa tea and a drydock
The 1926 Dutch Admiralen-class destroyers all carried a float plane scout. By the time of WWII, however, this idea had been abandoned as impractical. The destroyers featured no catapult and the float planes had to be lowered and recovered by crane. More capable shore-based scout aircraft and flying boats took over the role of these float planes.
40:00 USS Halford (DD-480) commissioned April '43. Had catapult installed in July '43 to test feasibility of scout planes on destroyers . Removed in October '43. Only six destroyers were so modified.
Several of the Lake Michigan plane wrecks have been recovered and restored to flying condition. A Dauntless from the lake is on display at Midway Airport; named for the battle, while a Wildcat is on display at O’Hare Airport; named for the USN pilot.
But his point Still Remains, United States Navy still claims rights.
There's an Avenger at the USS Lexington in Corpus Christi
Might "Greater Buffalo" have been a reference to the greater Buffalo metropolitan area, on the Great Lakes?
That was my guess also.
This absolutely has to be the case. It would be akin to naming a ship "HMS London Metro Area" but this is a bureaucracy we're talking about.
"HMS Greater London" if you please... very large ship, many say it's overrated.
Not to be confused with HMS City of London, which is very small, old, full of silly hats, and surprisingly powerful, or HMS City of Westminster (same class as HMS CoL, not as rich, but very well connected)...
Yes! But there is still an implied opposite, which will indeed be smaller, but more central. It would be more than "downtown Buffalo," and if you were also referencing "Greater Buffalo" you might use "Buffalo proper" to refer just to the area within the city charter's limits. I suppose they could have called the ship the "Buffalo SMSA" - standard metropolitan statistical area - or "Buffalo and Environs," but those would have been far less likely to inspire loyalty from officers and crew, or respectful awe from others. And I would presume that Greater Buffalo would include the American side of Niagara Falls; but you might not want to name a ship directly after a geographical feature of such peril to even large riverine craft.
"a pirates life for me!" " whats that? HMS invicible "oh fuck"
"You said there were no seals out here!"
"Thought you meant the ANIMAL!"
I think the way to look at the Japanese 25 mm Type 96 and 1.1" Chicago Piano is that both *were* the medium AA gun from the 30s, with the light role being filled by heavy machine guns around 12.7 or 13.2 mm. Then aircraft in the 40s were faster and more capable so the light and medium AA guns both had to inflate to be useful, and the US kind of lucked into the Oerlikon and Bofors guns thanks to their alliance with the British and their war experience. Then the US did the "guns manufacturer goes brr" thing and was able to put lots of these guns on everything afloat, compared with the Japanese manufacturing a few hundred copies of the Bofors gun.
Germany also produced a limited number of 40mm Bofors in a Norwegian factory which happened to have a licence. Bofors and Oerlikon are still around today; these WW2 licence fees went a long way. 🙂
@@ottovonbismarck2443 It is weird to me how Germany never really went into the 40mm Bofors considering Sweden was right there and a relatively friendly (if reluctantly) neutral.
Regarding pressed men, there was another category of men forcibly kept on after a ship paid off after a long commission. From time to time, various First Sea Lords would foolishly order all sailors to be held aboard ships in harbor under armed guard after their previous ships returned home, instead of the usual practice of "paying them off". These men would then be sent to ships leaving on new commissions. This was very hard on the men, who hadn't seen their families in years, and would then not do so again for several more. Officers were of course immune to that questionably legal practice, which got these Sea Lords labelled as scrubs who couldn't solve their manning problems using smarter means... Because the practice caused a great lowering of morale throughout the fleet, increasing desertions and lowered volunteer rates.
@19:00 there are more aircraft on the bottom of the ocean, than there are ships in the skies.
In 1931-33 there was the Akron class Airships. USS Akron and USS Macon, they could carry 5 Sparrowhawk aircraft. It was intended to use these Airships as long range scouts, the Curtis F9C biplanes had a range of 297 miles, top speed of 176.5 MPH. Tragically both airships crashed in 1933 and 1935, killing the Airship program for the US Navy. Before they built Los Angeles Class Nuclear Submarines. The US Navy had the USS Los Angeles (Built in Germany as the ZR-3) the only Airship for the US Navy that was decommissioned and not have a tragic fate.
I'm glad I waited to watch this video on my way home. Gives me something to watch on board a airplane at 34000 ft in the air 😊
Thanks Drach.
God bless you all
Your comments on the name of the Greater Buffalo suggest you think it was named after the animal. It was most likely named after the eponymous city on the shores of Lake Erie and the city's environs. I believe British English also uses this adjective in the same way (e.g. Greater Manchester)
A thought I had on the ensuing commentary: mosquito - moskva? ;-]
I believe Drach knows that and is making a deliberate joke. 🤭
Thanks Drach
In the Royal Navy what was the pay difference between a pressed man and a volunteer?
Great Drydock Drach. Thanks.
"What would be the general disposition of forces for the Battle of Coral Sea if the Japanese had decided to send all of their fleet carriers to assist in the Invasion of Port Moresby?" In considering this scenario, Allied codebreaking has to be considered, too. If HYPO and friends can discern that MO is bringing a far larger fast carrier force to the Coral Sea, Nimitz might think twice about sending only TF11 and RF17 to parry it.
The real problem with more aggressive use of the IJN battle line is quite similar to why the surviving USN Standards didn’t show up until 1943+: not enough available fuel to use them.
In the USN case the problem of course was lack of fleet oilers or fuel stocks in theater. For Japan it was limited fuel stocks period. While not as fuel constrained as the Regia Marina, aggressive use of the IJN battle line early would have required some other valuable assets NOT being used.
Parents home is in El Cerrito CA and yes there WAS as smaller hill next to Albany Hill which was the Little Hill, but it is today a level USPS Mail Sorting Facility.
For those scout aircraft on non-carrier capital ships - what was done with the plane after launch? I can see a catapault device helping achieve launch speed without requiring a flight deck as a runway, but once you're done your scouting mission, you generally want to get back on your ship...and your CO probably wants you to still have a plane for the next scouting mission. Did these ships have cranes built in to retrieve a plane that landed on water? Or was there some other method of recovering these scout craft?
They had cranes. The scout aircraft were all float planes. They landed in the ocean next to the ship, then the crane was used to pull the plane back on board. Look closely at the pictures of WW2 cruisers and battleships and you should be able to see the cranes.
Upon hearing of the crashed aircraft in lake Michigan I think it might be a good idea to attempt to recover and restore a devistator as there are none in museums
I always liked the idea of a fast light carrier/seaplane carrier for use with cruiser squadrons especially for the US Scouting force but the US was barely building cruisers so it didn’t have the money and it only works for cruisers acting in a squadron while if deployed individually a cruiser can still use it’s floatplane for recon and spotting.
WRT small destroyer sized ships with aircraft, I suspect something useful could have been done with a treaty sloop. A 2000 ton ship with 2 twin 4" guns and a 20 knot powerplant... you wonder if they could have fit in 2 scout aircraft and a hangar within those limitations. Might have been surprisingly useful as an escort, in a mix with other escort types.
Like the US Treasury class cutters, which were really treaty sloops, but with more of an emphasis on aircraft.
Yeah but also in the lake is United Airlines Flight 389, a Boeing 727-100.
If anyone is not aware, on August 16th 1965, United Airlines Flight 389, a Boeing 727-100 with 30 people aboard was operating a flight from New York to Chicago when UA389 while descending from 35,000 feet down to 6000 feet crashed into Lake Michigan on its approach killing all aboard, no-one knows why it crashed."
17:37 I saw a documentary last year about aircraft recovered from Lake Michigan; up until a few years ago they were near perfectly preserved in cold, anaerobic fresh water, but an invasive species of mussel has got into the lake and is now rapidly degrading the wrecks (amongst causing a whole bunch of other ecological problems)
No half a million extra men would not have tipped the balance on the Western Front in 1915. The issues faced on the Western Front in 1915 largely were not manpower, believe it or not, but materiel. Throwing a few hundred thousand extra troops into the trenches would not have solved the shortages in critical areas all the combatants were facing in 1915.
To take just one example (albeit an important one) you simply have to look at the artillery situation. Simply put Britain did not have the artillery to change things on the Western Front in 1915, they did not have the number of guns required, especially medium and heavy artillery pieces, neither did they have the ammunition for those guns. Germany and France were not quite as badly off as Britain was during that period but even they still lacked the requisite number of guns and supply of ammunition required to break the deadlock.
The shortages were not just limited to guns, but also to small arms ammunition, grenades, and a wide plethora of other critical supplies. It took time for the fighting nations to build up the production and logistics capacity to properly equip, feed, and supply the millions of troops on the line with the weapons, equipment and ammunition required. In 1915 that manufacturing and logistics capacity simply did not exist.
If the straits had been forced, I rather like the idea of sending the Australians to fight against the Austro-Hungarians in Ukraine. Unlike the stalemated Western Front, that area had a fast moving front line and the Australian light cavalry would have been much more useful than they were dismounted at Gallipoli.
While there likely wasn't a "Lesser Buffalo," the existence of an "SS Buffalo" is probably a certainty.
"Greater" Buffalo almost certainly refers to Buffalo and its surroundings, not to a mythical "Lesser" Buffalo, which would be just the City of Buffalo, exclusive of the communities in its hinterland.
Lesser Spotted Buffalo?
You need to do one on HMS Norfolk, like you did with Exeter. IMO Norfolk is one of the most under appreciated ships of all time.
I know movie reviews aren't really your thing, but a review of Godzilla -One would be pretty badass considering just how dependent the plot was on historical Japanese Navy vessels
To the first question about carriers. Are we assuming the Japanese have the folding Wing wildcats? I don't think that comes to like the -4 model?
The Deadliest catch vessel Wizard was originally built as a Navy yard oiler, so I guess "yard" doesn't mean not seaworthy because she handles the Bering sea pretty well.
I am a child of war, in a way, and I tell you, war is terrible, I can't say enough that war is terrible. War ruins generations of families, as it has mine. The fact that I am here to witness is nearly a miracle. Yes, I find conflict fascinating, which is why I am saying something here, but war ruins people, please believe me.
One thing about an expanded Battle of the Coral Sea is that with the arrival of more carriers for either side. The Office in tactical command changes. For the IJN it’s Nagumo and for the U.S. Navy it’s Halsey. So that adds another layer to the what if.
Halsey is still returning from the raid on Tokyo?
@@WALTERBROADDUS By the time the Battle of Coral Sea had ended. Halsey was 2 days out from the area. If he left 1 or 2 days (of the original 5 days) after returning to Pearl from the Doolittle Raid. He might have had a chance to come in on the Japanese flank and pincer Shokaku and Zuikaku from the north with Enterprise and Hornet. With Fletcher coming up from the south with Yorktown and Lexington.
What scenario 3 that Drach bought up is the most likely way that the US would have a fighting chance to beat the Kido Butai.
@@ph89787 do we have enough Fleet Oilers to do all this?
@@WALTERBROADDUS we did.
The -ito suffix also implies a larger version of the Dorito.
BTW "Greater Buffalo" is a way of saying "Buffalo-Niagara Metro Area", in other words Erie and Niagara Counties or Buffalo+suburbs and Niagara Falls depending on how you want to look at it.
I wonder to what extent fuel constraints prevented or at least inhibited the IJN from committing larger numbers of ships to operations, even earlier in the war.
Put Pellew in charge and send him to Istanbul
I heard Midshipman Drach sounding off in the background. Has the young sailor memorized the navy regs yet?
It's feeling like people are separating themselves into camps, and how can I express what I have lost from war; but no one will hear or understand until they have felt what I have felt, and here we are.
Saturday night and Drach has dropped! 😀 😀
38:58 Side note: Mosca in Italian mean "fly"
Yo! I thought i heard a baby near the end. I didnt know y'all had a child! Congratulations!
Congratulations to B K Jeong for getting their question answered first! Surprised it wasn't something like "why were battleships so obsolete by WWII?" or something like that. 😊 😉
Last time I was this early Japan still has a navy.
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"Greater Buffalo" refers to the Buffalo metropolitan areas - more than the city itself.
An aircraft carrier with a small airwing dedicated for scouting? That's the exact mission profile the rigid airships (zepplins) were meant to fill! Pity that the Navy just refused to maintain them properly. If they hadn't treated them like hot-air balloons (just patch 'em up and send 'em back out, no way that could go wrong), they would've been exactly that missing piece.
If the Ottoman Empire had surrendered in 1915, then the Middle East would not have been an active theater of war after the surrender. There would no doubt have been civil unrest among the Arabs that would have bothered the Turks, but most of the Allied troops and associated military logistics would have been redeployed to Europe. Instead of mostly pointless fighting in diverse and distant places such as Iraq and Palestine, the Allied war effort would have been much more focused.
In regards to the first question, is there a particular reason why you ruled out the Avengers due to height considerations? Shokaku's hangars are more roomy than Implacable's, yet that carrier was able to operate Avengers from her hangars with a hangar height over a foot less than Shokaku. Am I missing something?
British Avengers had to be specifically modified to fit in RN carrier hangars, with the Shokaku I assumed default USN spec Avengers.
@@Drachinifel Ah, I wasn't aware the RN Avengers were modified! That makes sense though, considering how large the plane is.
Not related to the video, but I'm currently reading a sci-fi novel called "Shards of Earth" by Adrian Tchaikovsky which features a space warship called "Thunderchild".
If carriers did not develop inti what they were and the Pacific war was fought with mainly big gun Capital ship. Would the Super Yamato and the Montanas been build in numbers and how much longer would the war gone.
Do you have limitations on Shipyard and steel capacity.
Non-scholarly guess regarding the discussion of "Greater," something not as common now but happened decades in the past in the U.S. was calling a city and its suburbs "Greater _____ ." There was no "Lesser _____" because just saying the city name could strictly refer to the geographic area within established boundaries for the city minus the suburbs. Not sure that's what happened with the Greater Buffalo, but without research it's my theory.
Find love where you can find it, find shelter where you can find it.
1:03:29 "In and Out Nagumo 20 minute adventure"
Hello Mini Drach, hope you and mommy are doing well.
The big energy and economic costs are getting out of the earth gravity well. Get heavy lift to earth orbit, heavy enough for a true space vehicle you can theorically get usable mining capabilities into space. This unlocks huge mineral resources. Think what happens if you could get titanium as plentiful as iron. You mine it is space send it down the gravity well, heck use the heat reentry to remove and/or separate impurities and technology looks very different. You now make your reusable boosters with titanium increasing boost yield and now you can afford to send hundreds of tons of other materials, water, air, live soil. This can allow much easier human habitation allowing processing in space. The microgravity can have huge advantages and leading to industrialization in space. Earth's exports become literally drawers of water. Water become more expensive than gold, live soil for growing food becomes even more expensive, air is no longer free. Single asteroid might have more iron, nickel, titanium, platinum, cobalt and others minerals than previous mined on earth, easier to get too once you land.
What ship is that in the drydock thimbnail?
They seemed to have a lot of dessert on british ships 😋 🍰
Best choice for the Chinese? Submarines.
Unless you can match the IJN's carrier prowess (forget it), don't buy a surface fleet.
"Hispanic flying kyju" lolz
How do you make A living doing what you love ?
May the preserved UK carrier be Victorious. This saving the RN from the longest, most pointless and politically destructive reconstruction in its entire history….
When the war ends did the british navy send their pressed men back where they got them from?
I doubt it very much. You make your own way home.
Thanks for answering my questions!
I doubt putting the battleships with the Kido Butai would have changed Midway at all: they don’t really pose a threat to the American carriers, and given that the entire reason the Americans sortied at Midway was to target the Kido Butai there’s not really anything stopping them from doing the same thing they did historically- striking down the Japanese carriers and then leaving while ignoring the Japanese battleships. Of course the battleships could add some more AA in the air, but given that this is Japanese AA AND quite early in the war it’s not going to be a lot.
Consisering the primary obstacle to victory for both sides at midway was simply finding the enemy, addiing more ships to eithet fleet that ar not additional flat tops, may significantly *hamper* their chances at victory, by making them easier to spot for opposing strike packages, whilst contributing virtually nothing to the outcome. And the only way in which the battlewagons could have been iseful, adding a tripwitlre picket screen for the carriers to get advance warning, and vomit out a CAP in time, there simply wern't enough hulls.
@@egoalter1276
Pretty much.
Re Coral Sea. If badly outnumbered, the USN will refuse combat at least initially. The IJN lacks the resources to support a large invasion or to interdict supply to Australia. What the US wants is a meat grinder, it will win any war of attrition. Japan has two problems: it's merchant marine cannot keep up with peace-time needs (and is hopelessly inadequate at war) and it is strong enough to win anywhere but only at the cost of getting its arse kicked everywhere else. Winning at Coral Sea does nothing to solve Japan's problems.
Ahhh midshipman drach contributing
18th, 9 June 2024
Here is a recent news story of one of those WW2 planes recovered from lake Michigan and restored.
ruclips.net/video/xyE7d2EhNT8/видео.html
:)
Mosca = fly en espanol
00:39:03 another reason why a aircraft destroyer - even with a cruiser style single scout iteration on a destroyer hull is suspect, but disproportionately more so once several aircraft are carried - like a destroyer hulled flat top, is the number of support personnel, flight deck crew, maintenance staff, Flight ops command and control, - it isn't just the pilot and observer and a couple of riggers (aircraftmen). But significantly once helicopters became a thing aircraft were infinitely useful again despite problems like stowage, vulnerable fuel etc, and even downsized to destroyers/ frigates that were tasked with ASW -so British Type 12s.
00:26:30 i think there is a lots of confusion by certain "historians" between the terms "pressed" and Landsmen.
Drach, always remember, a metallic object going down in fresh water does not suffer the horrible electrolysis that going down in sea water does. Drop your cellphone in a lake, you can probably save it. The second it drops into the Ocean, it is done. This not debatable to me, not a mere chemical theory. I was flooded in Hurricane Sandy and just a tiny dip in sea water rendered every object so affected hors du combat. Completely. Yet a similar flood at my wife's lake house once dried out, all the devices worked perfectly for years. Jus thought you would like to now, as it might explain why the Navy still says they are theirs. The electronics still might work, meaning stealing them intact might be a problem for the Navy.
Dissimilar metals in salt water makes an electric cell. In fresh water makes nothing. I know you know that. I just thought I might call it to your attention.