We're all better then we think we are. I agree with you though, me too for 55 years. Zappa said: "keep playing your music even if people hate it"....words to live by. Take care, rock on.
i think what frank was going to produce were songs written prior to what became "infidels". bob had a completely different batch of songs in late 1982 or at least that's my understanding. bob mentioned zappa fondly in recent interview.
Totally agree! I hold Infidels as one of his best, and I love the production, bringing forward details and the excellence of Sly, Robbie and Knopfler… 😎👍
Thanks for sharing your Amy story and going philosophical on the impact of small choices and seemingly innocuous decisions. Oh, how the little stuff shapes us. You're a treasure, Otis. Keep on.
I like Dylan (i'm a hardcore Zappa fan) but never liked Infidels, would have loved to hear what FZ would have done with it, I recall that Zappa's idea was to subcontract Giorgio Moroder and have Dylan sing and play harmonica on top of Giorgio Moroders Synth tracks, I think that would have been interesting, also I NEED to hear that tape they made together.
My first video of you. It will not be my last. You had me at 14:10, tears. So beautiful, what you had to say. Thank you for being in the world as you are. Can’t wait to see another of your posts.
Im 26. When i was 15, i was obsessed with Dylan. Nobody on earth besides my older brother knew who dylan was. People made fun of me constantly for listening to music that, to them, sounded like it was from the 1930's. I never wavered and I like Dylan more and more with each passing year
what do you think of "time out of mind?" that album was released when you were less than a year old. I was 20. I had just moved to los angeles from a small city in virginia. I got my first job in LA at a big record store. that album really resonated with me. & it still does nearly 25 years later. have you listened to it, roger?
@@Pumpkinking64 nice!! I was so blown away by that album!! & I was so refreshed to hear dylan still kickin' out great works 35 years after his recording career began. & I'm refreshed once again by your account. ;-)
I'm over the hill and started listening to Bringing It All Back Home around 15yrs old and he has been at the top for me thru thick and thin as well. I have seen him 3 times now. The best time was at the Bay Front Auditorium in p'cola Florida. Small place and at some point during his acoustic set people started to leave their chairs and crowd the front stage. It was like a high-school auditorium stage that came chest high and I had my arms folded in front of me resting on the stage. No security between the crowd and stage. Bob was about 10 feet from the edge where we all were watching him like a bunch of children listening to an elder telling a great story. Bob's Lyrics book is my bible. Bob is like what Jerry said about the Dead, we are like black liquorice, people that like us really like us, people that don't, really don't. We are a particular tribe. Kinda like people that have or have not tripped on L. People that have have a unique perspective. And the Gummi is working.
@@frankwebster9110 hahaha!! I love that black licorice analogy!! "bringing it all back home" is undoubtedly my favorite dylan album. but that "time out of mind..." that one is a shimmering gem.
I learned somewhere along the road of my 63 year journey to not share many of my dreams and schemes ( good name for an album) With others because I would then have to defend them against people with fears and needs to be comfortable or conformative in the world. First saw my life partner at a Party a friend was throwing after a Jerry Garcia Band show. She was with someone else and so was I. Six months later, she walks into triple rock brewing in Berkeley Ca B4 some Dead shows in Oakland looking for our mutual friend. We have been married 25 years and where married on Big Island with Our Dear friends Peter Rowan and Slide Blues master Roy Rogers attending and playing the reception. Saw that Mitchell/Dylan tour Taped it with old Neumann Km54’s Always take “The road less traveled “
Thank you, Otis 🙏🏻 I'm never worried about you getting off the subject, its always an interesting dive. I picked up my dad's old Stella about 40 years ago, learned barre chords, and wanted to write and play punk rock. Ive learned a little more over the years. I admire your work and skills at crafting the songs you play. Also glad that you and Amy found each other. Amazed at how one seemingly small decision leads to being where we are now. I can't say that I'm a huge Dylan fan. Im familiar with his work, and I appreciate it. I grew up listening to Pete Seeger and Arlo Guthrie, among many other singer-songwriters of the early 70s. Im also not a big fan of learning covers. Everybody seems to cover Dylan. I get it, he's good. I just dont want to play what everyone else has or does... Happy Wednesday and be good to you and yours 🤍
Great book, Otis. Picked it up in an airport once - and it promptly made the next 8 hours of travel disappear into pure delight (much like Zappa's music does).
Great story, Otis. I've heard & read various takes on the Zappa/Dylan encounter but it's fun to hear them assembled. I knew about Frank & Elvis but never heard of an approach to Bowie. You didn't mention it, and it doesn't seem to be well known, but Dylan also approached Ric Ocasek about producing that album. I'd worked with Ric since I was a teenager, before the Cars, and played on his first solo album, Beatitude, not long before he called me about this. Dylan told him he wanted a complete change, didn't want to use the same musicians and had clearly left his born again period behind. When they talked about using some fresh faces, Ric had proposed me for guitar on the record. When Ric told me this on the phone, I said, "who, Matt Dillon?" Ric laughed and said, "no, Bob." I was thrilled, naturally, and Ric told me to try and keep the time open and he'd follow up. Not long after, Ric told me Bob was off sailing in the Caribbean and he didn't know anything definite. Apparently, this drifted through several more changes before Dylan settled on Mark Knopfler, and they had quite a lumpy time on that album, which upset Knopfler a good deal. It's fascinating to imagine the album Dylan would have made with Zappa, Ocasek or Costello, but we'll never know, will we. Would love to hear that cassette, if it still exists! Cheers. P.S. Ian Taylor, who engineered Ric's album, Beatitude, also mixed Infidels.
Wow, now and then you can find in this channel comments that are as interesting as the video itself. Thanks for that. I was a fan of the Cars and Ocasek in my youth and always loved Jimmy Jimmy from Beatitude.
Actually ZAPPA produced a great Grand Funk record as well, which was better IMO, tighter production, great fidelity. Rundgren has this effect chain he uses on all his vocals, that make them all sound like Rundgren, Zappa just made it tight, and the hit Some Kind of Wonderful, imo, us much cleaner and better produced than American band. Both are good... But it should be known that zappa could do Rundgren's style, But I doubt the reverse would be true.
Not to put a fine point on it, but compare American Band vocals to Xtc - Earn Enough for us, and Utopia - feet Don’t Fail me now. Not that they're bad, I love them all, but i would love to know what he uses to get that sound out of every vocalist! I'm guessing an Eventide, an SPX 90 stereo enhancer, and a tube distressor/altec tube comp..
yet another great set of stories. thanks for this, otis. like you, I'm very picky & fussy about those 80s soundworlds. I've always liked dylan. his stuff lost me after the 70s, but grabbed me again, in '98, with "time out of mind." that album is so beautiful!! daniel lanois was a perfect producer/collaborator for dylan. I really wish they'd've done more together. I love, love, love bowie!! but his recordings fell off for me after "let's dance" all the way up until "outside," when he easily re-captured my interest & held on tight through the rest of his life. I reeeaally wish we had a bowie-lanois collaboration to listen to. I've actually heard there once were talks of that, but obviously, it never happened. now, I'm way off topic. I'll hafta check that costello-squeeze bit. but I think I'm gonna hafta go zappa on this one. I loooove zappa!! he's yet another artist whose recordings lose me a bit towards the end of the 70s & grab me back at the end of the 80s. I think tom waits is one of the few artists whose music & overall sound improved significantly in the 80s. that is, of course, to my very opinionated ears. & we all know what opinions are like... )*( haha!!
I love this album I think Knopfler did an amazing job Mick Taylor, rocks, it, and sly and Robbie crush it…The songs are epic and still resonate profoundly to this day sweetheart like you sundown on the union and of course Jokerman.
Don’t forget man of peace, I and I , neighborhood bully, the whole album! It changed my life it’s my favorite album, I became a bigger knoffler fan with this album! It’s solid and a very relevant album for the 80s, Dylan was not washed up on that album, and his Christian albums are underrated also, they were more relevant than his protest music, if people would actually listen to them, people write it off because they are Christian albums, but they really say relevant things on them, but Infidels is all of it together, the musicians are top notch, and mick Taylor’s solo on sweetheart like you is the most expressive guitar solo that speaks to my soul!
@@mikescully6972 yeah right Those songs hold up so damn well But let’s be fucking real the best song never even made it on the album blind Willie McTell oh my god oh my god what a fucking amazing song. I actually saw Mick Taylor do that shit live one time at McCabe’s in Santa Monica that is an amazing song, and did you hear the other outtake , it’s too late that’s a really good song to- they released it fairly recently, but yeah man, you nailed it man of peace that’s right great tune- and I really like Otis’s backstory for this album because it’s true he was coming out of that born again Fais and I think it really sharpened his focus with his writing to wear something like Man of peace came out, which is just so on point like when you look at the leaders today like the The Justin Trudeau’s real wolves in sheep’s clothing and you think back to man of peace. Dylan called that shot way back when
@@mikescully6972 yeah that’s right I and I so deep again that’s what I’m saying about when he comes out of the born-again phase. It really sharpen the focus of his writing some thing like I and I is addressing the deep, spiritual struggle for each of us between our undying self, and our egoic self - it’s about how the ego has to die before we embrace the higher self - deep spiritual theme and you can tell he was really going through it- and all the shit that comes with being so famous drugs the corruption, the egotism, hard hard lessons for the soul, and somehow we managed to get all that into a really amazing song and a really amazing album
@@mikescully6972 i’m going to say one more thing this is pre-Lanois Dylan- Otis conversation is so interesting because you can tell Dylan was really searching at this time for a sound to Xpress all the amazing content in the songs, and I think he settled on the best available situation’s to make it happen- and it obviously came together with an amazing group of musicians, but sonically I could hear Lanois producing this album and that would’ve been really really interesting because he picks up the same themes later on in oh Mercy and then time out of mind, but both of those albums kind of have an infidel‘s vibe to them but that’s what makes infidels so great is that he was just genuinely searching to the point where he’s going from Zappa to Bowie to Elvis Costello And finally settling on Mark Knopfler - that’s a huge range of people that he’s talking to but all of them are total innovators and great artists in their own, right so how fucking cool that- Dylan is just looking for the best person to help hum get his vision made And the universe said OK it’s going to be Knopfler and it was a great choice
@@iamharnam well jerry wexler told knoffler to play like Albert king on slow train, and I think mark found his producing abilities on that album, I’m all about originality, and authenticity, but knoffler is unique, because he’s so dylanisc in his singing and playing,but he sounds so original to the point I think Keith and Ronnie of the stones adopted it, and really gave the stones their true sound for the 70s and 80s, no wonder they back Dylan on live aid! Lol!
Thanks for sharing the mystery of how you and Ms Amie met. I dig stories of how two good people come together. Dylan music is very special. Sometimes I struggle to listen to him sing it. I'm sure Zappa could be difficult. Most Geniuses are.
This was a great watch. I am 50 years old. Infidels was my introduction to Bob Dylan. MTV hipped me to a ton of stuff my dads record collection didn't have. I saw the Jokerman video, immediately bought the 45, and assumed Bob was from the islands. Listening to mass amounts of Dylan since then, Infidels was really never in the mix. The recent bootleg series around that time period was amazing and I uave since fallen in love with the album. I also saw Dylan in the late 90s with Ani Difranco and BR549. Dylan was amazing. I would take any one of those producers. Thanks for filling my mind with what ifs of how they all might sound.
Hey Otis, great channel Just wanted to point you to Bob Dylans radio theme hour that's on RUclips, if you haven't heard It. Great music hosted by Bob Dylan. What more can you ask for
You might have gotten off the subject Bob Dylan but your talk about Amy and making little decisions is very wise. You are a warm guy and easy to listen to.
Very interesting. Thanks! To answer your question about Mick Taylor being on Infidels, he sure was. There's a recent "Official" video of Dylan and Mick Taylor and the other musicians in the studio playing "Version 2" of Don't Fall Apart on Me Tonight that's really good if you haven't seen it.
I always thought Frank Zappa was the smartest guy in the room. I agreed with him in his fight against censorship. He was spot on in his arguments against the PMRC. Bob Dylan is also my favorite singer/songwriter, or composer and I loved his performances on his albums. I too am a loner in my group of friends. I have been told that if I want to go see Dylan I’d have to go by myself. Well then I will! I have been trying to play the guitar all my life. I’m horrible. I suck. But I’ll keep trying! I love the guitar. I’ll leave it up to Bob Dylan to find a producer of his albums. Personally I think Zappa or Bowie would have been interesting choices. You ought to name your program, “The Rabbit Hole,” Otis. I love it when we go there.
Most of us are terrible guitar players but, it's only gotten more fun as I've gotten older. Learning new stuff either by accident or intentionally is really rewarding. Mostly just really fun! Keep rocking in the free world!
Great video as usual, thanks Otis! I used Dylan’s, ‘My Back Pages,’ as a monologue, in a Shakespeare acting class assignment, at the IU Theatre program in my undergraduate days! The other students and the Professor were amazed with the crossover to Shakespeare within the assignment; which is also ironic when one is familiar with the particular verse concerning profs and universities!
Otis I just want to say I’ve just watched two of your you tube videos and have to say I love the way you tell a story and your vocal delivery is spot on .. I’ve just subscribed to your channel and look forward to watching more … thank you..
There's a great book about Zappa, "The Negative Dialectics of Poodle Play", a pretty comprehensive look at Frank and his work. I read it a million years ago. I seem to remember that Zappa had a love/hate relationship with Dylan's work. His '88 album had a joke where Zappa said in some banter, "Wanna buy some cave paintings, Bob?"
Great Post and story This is a good Zappa biography Miles does a good job Anther great book is the Zappa Book ( not exactly an autobiography ) but great insight to Franks mind
Excellent Otis! Pretty sure I’ve mentioned this on here before but I’ve seen Dylan twice. First time was in ‘88 at the Audubon Zoo with GE Smith and absolutely blew me away. Outdoor show and we were 20 feet away. It stormed right before the show and it was a mud hole down there, but, the tickets said “rain or shine”!! I still have the stub btw. Second time was at UNO a year or so later. Full band with horns and backup singers etc etc, but, no GE Smith and it just didn’t sound good. It felt like he was rushing things and his strat was out of tune. We walked out after the first encore along with a bunch of other folk. Much love Otis!! ☮️
I agree with you Otis. Most 80's records sound crappy. Over-produced drums too high in the mix, and guitars so thin they sound like they were played through an electric razor. And the ubiquitous Yamaha DX7 electric piano sound. I like those first 2 or 3 Joe Jackson records though. Whoever did that would've been good for a Dylan record.
Met Frank once, he asked if I was registered to vote. I asked for an audition, and he did say, "Send me a tape." It was right before he starting to get ill...
Where's the song Otis? 🤣 The little decisions that lead to big consequences. I enjoy your videos, man...and especially the ones where there's a Bob reference or two to chew on. Best wishes Otis.
We'll never know what another producer might have done. But I'm glad you learned to play guitar and I'm glad you went to that show. I saw a similar show in SC. Saw him again in 2019 and 2022. Glad I did.
The version of Infidels I want to hear sounds like Jokerman that was performed on Letterman with the Plugs as Dylan’s backing band. If you haven’t seen it definitely check it out!
Meeting your future wife at a Bob Dylan concert!?!? That's a true rock n roll story in and of itself. Seen some stinker Dylan shows although the accompanying acts usually make up for it.
Love it when you get off track and when you’re on track. Always a calm, uplifting vibe. Love Infidel songs but the drum sound and mix took a while to get used to. Elvis Costello would have been dynamite. Or the whole album done like that garage rock Letterman live version of Jokerman.
You do not have to like sharing time with an artist to appreciate their work. Ezra Pound and Vincent van Gogh are two artists whose work I enjoy, but most likely would not have wanted to spend time with them. Happenstance has great momentum; I met my partner Just Plain Cross 58 years ago; we have been together ever since. I liked ‘Neighborhood Bully’ from the album and seems timely even today.
"You do not have to like sharing time with an artist to appreciate their work." I'll second that emotion. Never felt I'd like spending time with Zimmy Dylan, but over years have spent more time with his records and seeing his shows than anyone else's material. I knew Dave Van Ronk socially and he did like spending time with Dylan, being the first with Big Dave's live-in creative partner and manager Teri Thal to offer the Duluth kid a downtown Village floor to sleep on. The Iron Range kid who not even Van Ronk knew was named Zimmerman and who wandered into NYC to visit Woody Guthrie in the hospital, where Zimmy met his U. of Minnesota colleague Bonnie Beecher now named some Indian mytho-poetic name along with her husband Wavy Gravy's last name of Romney. Read Van Ronk's musical memoir completed and published by Big Dave and Teri Thal's former guitar student Elijah Wald called THE MAYOR OF McDOUGAL STREET who swear before his fame and fortune, Dylan was the class clown of Village hanging folkies and whose personality was all about being funny, which he was! I might've liked that Bob too, before his humor turned to those whose laughs came at his sharp wit's expense (and yes I laugh at those lyrics too! I just wouldn't want to share a beer with Bobby The Snark Zimmy. meanwhile Van Ronk and his partner Teri Thal were delights off stage too, hence the Bleecker Street nickname at The Bitter End dba The Other End for Big Dave as the Mayor of McDougal Street! Keep on doing and writing artemis sidecross! Health and balance through our Pandemic In Perpetuity Mitch Ritter\Paradigm Sifters, Code Shifters, PsalmSong Lore Chasers Lay-Low Studios, Ore-Wa (Refuge of Atonement Seekers) Media Disc-US-sion List\Looksee\InnerEarsHearHere
I'm a big dylan fan I saw him in thinking on the same tour you saw him and met Amy 98 or 99. It was the only time I saw him it was a great show. There are not but a handful of Dylan albums I don't care as much for but Infidels is not in that handful. Thanks Otis and much love .
@Otis Gibbs I'm 100% with you in the belief that small or at least single decisions can lead to dramatic changes for the better, or occasionally the worse, that you could so easily have missed otherwise. I've got two quick ones from back when I was in college. The first was that when I was in my first year and first semester of college I was going to the local 2 year community college and I was sitting in a math class I think on the first or 2nd day of classes and had been looking around/across the class room and I saw these two guys sitting next to each other on the other side of the room. I kinda recognized them from having seen them at some of the small shows that happened downtown in our little city (Rome, GA if you know where that is). But they had on band t-shirts and jeans - which was basically how I was dressed too and so they stood out a bit from the rest of the folks, as did I in the same manner. And at any rate, I went home that night and I took out my CD's and a cassette and I made a cassette mix-tape of as many different groups of as many different genres of music as I could think of in order to give to them as a sort of introduction. I have to say that I'm generally a pretty shy introverted person and up until a year or two prior to this I doubt I would have had the gumption or the self-confidence to do something like this, but I'd gone through some really rough experiences in my last two years of high school that had drastically reshaped my overall perspective and how I related to the world in general - and that transformation of a sorts I definitely credit with giving me the nerve and what have you to make that introduction to those two guys, who became two of my closest friends and then band-mates shortly thereafter. Also ended up dating the sister of one of the two guys for a couple years a little bit later. But, had I not introduced myself to those guys (incidentally, one of the two essentially responded by making one and giving it to me a few days later) I never would have been in a band, never would have gotten further into playing and working on music - prior to that I had screwed around on guitar and keyboards etc a little bit, but when it comes to instrument playing I'm not a natural and my journey to playing music been kinda a story of dragging myself kicking and screaming through practicing and just plain sticking with it over the last 25 or so years. But yeah, I never would have been in a band, played shows, recorded a couple albums with our group and also found out how much I loved that experience of getting up in front of folks to play in spite of my reserved nature otherwise. The band lasted 3 or 4 years until folks had to go their separate ways, and I haven't been in one since then even though I've kept at playing myself and recording here and there - and I'm still in contact with one of the guys from the band on Facebook (of course lol). I think I'll leave it at this one story, this is plenty long enough (as is my tendency on here when it comes to commenting on videos) and it gets the idea across. But yeah, I absolutely could have missed out on what eventually became in one way or another the arc of my life over the next 10 years post that introduction, and probably half or even 2/3 of the close to 100 people on my friends list on FB (yeah I know, most people have hundreds but anyrate ;-) ) are folks that I met during that time through these other two guys or through playing in our band etc. So the lasting impact of that mix-tape introduction still reverberates through my life to the present - that intro having taken place in the early fall of 1999.
I love Infidels, amazing band and underrated songs. One phenomenon I have with Infidels and Basement Tapes, Hooker and Heat and a few other records is as much as I love them and think there classic I hesitate to play them.I have a visceral hesitation before I play the records and I wonder if it has to do with production or over all vibe or energy. Hence I only play them every year or so. Love it when I do. Must have the Hesitation Blues. Zappa would have brought something totally different to the table. I think Zappa would have needed to be in charge, two chiefs and no Indians. Zappa, Beefheart, Waits, folks like that don't collaborate much if ever. What if Zappa were in the Traveling Wilburys ? That is another topic. You give me food for thought Otis. Peace MJS
Mark for sure. The album changed my life. The way it is. I can't imagine it anyone else producing it. I absolutely see your point, from your point of you and appreciate it.
I got into Dylan a few years after I went through the mid sixties rock era when I learned to play guitar. Highway 61, Blonde on Blonde, and John Wesley Harding inspired me to get an acoustic, harmonica and harmonica holder. I completely skipped his Christian stage and the entire 1980s. His subsequent music was hit or miss for me, but I still consider him to be a major influence on my musical development. Great video Otis.
"It's okay to be who you think you want to be." Learning that -- and I learned it later than you did, mainly because the substances I was using kept me from learning it -- is high on the list of the most important lessons I've learned. Thanks for sharing that.
That's really cool Otis. I would bet someone has that tape. You and I have a lot of the same tastes in music!! Elvis producing that would have been interesting!! You have great views on music and life!! Talking about yourself at the end and your partner Amy hits home with me!! I know where that's at!! Seeing Joni in that show would have been cool and it sounds like that was the show you were meant to be at brother!!!! DAMN the split second decision can go different ways! Be cool Brother!!
Entertaining and thoughtful rant, today. Was that a reference to Art Pepper, regarding the choices one makes with the liquor store ? I do love Infidels. The recently released outtakes is also very interesting. Be Well
Its easy to stay home. Its much harder to get off the couch and pick up a guitar... BUT IT WILL BE WORTH IT! It happened to me and I had an 8 year run . At age 50, i found Bluegrass music. I was out 4 nights a week and went to a ton of jams, house parties and festivals. I totally relate to you Otis. My health issues have stopped me from all that i loved , but i still have my guitars and banjos!!
Thanks for the great stories. I've never thought of Zappa and Dylan being on opposite ends of the spectrum...but maybe. I'm 72 and have been a big fan of both. My experience with Dylan shows is just the opposite of yours. I got to see Rolling thunder in November 76. It was trancendetal. I've seen a number of shows since including Dylan and Phil Lesh and Dylan opening for the Dead at Highgate VT. He and his band did more in an hour and a half than the Dead did for the rest of the night (I'm also a deadhead) The one show I didn't go to was I think in the late 70s or early 80s at a local venue where I live. It was out doors at a fairgrounds and I can remember my reason for not going. A lot of my friends went and everyone was pissed. Bob apparently played the entire show with his back to the audience. Weird! I can say that I have never been to a bad Dylan show. As for writing songs he's in a league by himself. Thanks again.
I saw a horrible Dylan show in 1988 , he was awful, no interaction with the crowd at all , played every tune completely different to how it was recorded. In 50 years of going to shows it’s the only gig I truly hated . To make it even worse my then girlfriend worshipped him so I had to stay and suffer through the whole thing .
I would have loved Dylan to have produced Infidels (2nd choice Nick Lowe or Costello). I think it would have been interesting to have tried his hand at this one. Imo, it was Bob's best 80s lp but could have used a bit more roughness. Either that, or Nick Lowe could have provided the proper pop feel. Costello , as a brilliant songwriter himself), might have helped Bob tighten up the weaker bits. I have loved Dylan since my dad brought home a used mono copy of Blonde on Blonde from a pawnshop. It was then that I discovered that words meant as much as music (maybe more).
Thanks for sharing those stories. The image of Bowie cornering Dylan at a party, blathering away, is hilarious and I love the way Bowie makes himself the butt of the joke when describing it. I totally agree about the sound of Infidels--very cold and lifeless, even though he had great musicians backing him. Something about 80s mainstream records just sounded terrible. Even Elvis Costello's and Bowie's stuff sounded bad at that point so I'm not sure if they would've made a difference. I really can't imagine Zappa's manic, busy arrangements going well with Dylan. In spite of that, Infidels is still the only Dylan album that I liked at all from the late 70s-mid 90s. He had a long dry spell, but there were a few great songs on that one, especially Sweetheart Like You.
I'm turning 74 this July (next month). I discovered Dylan on my own about 64 or 65 and kept my interest to my self until I found the rare exceptions in the high school crowd who gave a damn. They seemed to be too weird for normal. I never went to a Dylan concert though I've been to a Zappa concert (back in 72). The best years for me were the early Mono years that began for me with Another Side. That Dylan, the folk Dylan turned to the surrealism of Blonde On Blonde. Can't extract my life from those times.
Hey, just happened to come across this video. Great subject matter. Love bob and never heard this story. I think it would have been very interesting for frank to produce this record. Infidels is one of the first lps I bought of Dylan’s after owning the greatest hits for years. I now own most of his catalog. You are a very interesting and intelligent guy. I’ve been playing music most of my life. You seem like a kindred spirit even though we’ve never met, it’s like I’ve met ya before. I’ll keep up with your channel. 👍.
Have you heard the SACD of it?!!! My family bought me a player and like 6 of the set for Christmas when the Dylan 15 or so were released. Oddly enough, I picked infidels to pop in first... Ohhhhhhh Jokerman. Sitting in the exact same place I heard the SACD, I now have chills running down my spine. As I listened the first time, I just couldn't stop crying ... how beautiful the sound was. Get the SACD, get a Player... heck, collect them all! ... to answer the question, agreed on Elvis, but would prefer a version by each please.
Otis, I like what you said about those split second decisions having a major (positive/negative) impact on lives. I think Neil Young expressed it so very well in his lyrics to “Leave The Driving To Us” off GREENDALE: Then Jed pulled the trigger In a split-second tragic blunder… (Check out all the lyrics, so good) BTW, that’s a favorite NY album. Saw him do it in concert and it was definitely not what people were expecting. Lots of bellowing for the hits, but come ON! It’s Neil Young! Those songs were stuck in my head for weeks and it’s still one of my favorites.
I am a huge fan of both Zappa and Dylan, since the late 1960s. I have heard and read a few passing comments about this over the years but never got any details. Moon was apparently home that day and mentions it briefly in an interview somewhere. The idea sounds great but, Zappa did in fact produce a few records for other bands (e.g., Grand Funk Railroad 1976) and the results are very good, well produced recordings, but they are pretty much void of the “Zaapaesque” qualities one might imagine. Although some songs are stronger that others, all and all I think Infidels is a great album. The lyrics of a song like Jokerman are enough to hold my fascination regardless of any shortcomings in the production or musical sophistication. When it comes to rock music, Dylan is the ultimate lyricist, and Zappa was the ultimate composer in my book.
I was working for Frank at the time, and he briefly mentioned this meeting. Frank told me he thought Dylan had gone through his entire address book alphabetically and had finally gotten to Z and contacted him. Like many things regarding Frank, there are lots of differing versions of events.
So very true what you say about learning to play the guitar it takes years and it's painful but the whole process developing your ear learning to hear something off of radio and play it is a true accomplishment and then some weird ways makes you feel like you become more of a whole person
A few years ago, Bob played at Jazz Fest in New Orleans. Friends encouraged me to come because “Bob Dylan was playing.” I attended and thought Dylan’s performance was great. My friends “hated” it. I ‘d loved Bob’s music for decades. My friends only knew he was famous but were ignorant about his music.
0:00 Dear, Otis. ZAPPA by Barry Miles is in my top 3 music biographies. The other 2 are: CASTLES MADE OF SOUND. (Gil Evans) and LUST FOR LIFE (Billy Strayhorn). I'm sorry I don't remember the Authors. Hope you can get around to reading them.
Really like your videos and I too am a big fan of Dylan. I must say that I did like the sound of Infidels and part of it's because of Knopfler and the influence of Sly Dunbar and Robby Shakespeare. That rhythm section was outstanding on that recording in my opinion. Still play it often.
Frank mocked Dylan on stage during the '77 tour. What a bizarre evening that must have been with Bob hanging out at Frank's. I'd pay a lot of money to hear that tape.
actually Belew, I forget if it was during his audition or later, learning Flakes, thinking it sounded like a lame folk song, started doing Dylan: "That's in the show!" - Frank
I read that the recording was all digital and that Knopfler had to leave on tour before editing. If he had the time and his own studio.... knopfler would've nailed it Jokerman and I and I are gems... but I've never heard them performed to their full potential.
Love this record. It was my gateway drug to Sly and Robbie. Their groove on Jokerman sent me down the rabbit hole to find out more about them. Maybe a different producer would’ve used somebody else?
I’ve seen Dylan many, many times. Among them, two of the best and two of the worst shows ever. I still would consider seeing him again. Cheers, Otis!!!
Saw him twice in the 90s one was pretty good and the other was the most painfully loud show I've ever been to, not in a good way. Love him still the same:)
I walked out of a Dylan show once it was that bad. Then you hear from someone about how good Dylan's shows are (after you not wanting to see a bad one); and you realize you gotta take the good with the bad. BTW Im glad you went to that show man. I know you are too. :-) I really enjoy your stuff. You are refreshingly real and easy to listen to. I thought Infidels was a pretty good album overall. Several really good tracks. Keep kicking tail man. Music is life
I've seen him 3 times. Actually 4 now that I think about it. 2 times were in small places and were fantastic. The other 2 were big shed shows. One of those was was at deer creek in Noblesville and it was pretty good. The other was just him going through the motions really. I think k the smaller venues are better for both him and the fans. More intimate and not as easy to phone in.
Fifty years of going to concert, Dylan was the only one I really hated . I would have left early but my then girlfriend worshipped him so I suffered through the whole show .
Bob Boilen wrote an article named, “Nobody Ruins Dylan Like Dylan,” regarding Dylan’s live performances. There are plenty of officially issued albums that support that conclusion. With regard to Zappa producing Dylan, it sure would have been interesting. In the end, I’d be worried that Zappa’s perfectionist tendencies might have crept in. My favorite Dylan albums are the ones on which he’s the most loose. I don’t believe that Zappa would have produced anything as loose as “Like a Rolling a Rolling Stone,” and I don’t think that Knopfler could have either for exactly the same reason.
I've always heard that Bob Dylan was always a hit or miss with live shows. I think he said in his book it all depended on have the right amount of whiskey, not too much and not too little.
I'm glad I took up the guitar. I've been playing it poorly for about 35 years now, but it has brought much joy and many friends into my life.
👍
I feel that bro. Good God I'd have had so much misplaced energy if it weren't for the guitar. Who knows where I'd have ended up?
We're all better then we think we are. I agree with you though, me too for 55 years. Zappa said: "keep playing your music even if people hate it"....words to live by. Take care, rock on.
Same boat brother👍
Playing mine poorly for 40 years also, but it's amazing how much joy it brings to play a few of my songs over and over and over.
Infidels is an absolute classic. One of Dylan’s greatest.
Frank producing Infidels could have been amazing
Sly & Robbie !
Da riddim, mon.
i think what frank was going to produce were songs written prior to what became "infidels". bob had a completely different batch of songs in late 1982 or at least that's my understanding. bob mentioned zappa fondly in recent interview.
Totally agree! I hold Infidels as one of his best, and I love the production, bringing forward details and the excellence of Sly, Robbie and Knopfler… 😎👍
Wonder if Bob had heard the savage piss-take on the Sheik Yerbouti album?
@@richardsykes9692by Adrian Belew, no less!!
Thanks for sharing your Amy story and going philosophical on the impact of small choices and seemingly innocuous decisions. Oh, how the little stuff shapes us. You're a treasure, Otis. Keep on.
I really appreciated that segué as well. life is mysterious & magickal & kinda twisted in that way, huh?
I like Dylan (i'm a hardcore Zappa fan) but never liked Infidels, would have loved to hear what FZ would have done with it,
I recall that Zappa's idea was to subcontract Giorgio Moroder and have Dylan sing and play harmonica on top of Giorgio Moroders Synth tracks,
I think that would have been interesting, also I NEED to hear that tape they made together.
My first video of you. It will not be my last. You had me at 14:10, tears. So beautiful, what you had to say. Thank you for being in the world as you are. Can’t wait to see another of your posts.
Im 26. When i was 15, i was obsessed with Dylan. Nobody on earth besides my older brother knew who dylan was. People made fun of me constantly for listening to music that, to them, sounded like it was from the 1930's. I never wavered and I like Dylan more and more with each passing year
what do you think of "time out of mind?" that album was released when you were less than a year old. I was 20. I had just moved to los angeles from a small city in virginia. I got my first job in LA at a big record store. that album really resonated with me. & it still does nearly 25 years later. have you listened to it, roger?
@@doctorauxiliary yes! I absolutely love it. It's a masterpiece. Not Dark Yet kills me.
@@Pumpkinking64 nice!! I was so blown away by that album!! & I was so refreshed to hear dylan still kickin' out great works 35 years after his recording career began. & I'm refreshed once again by your account. ;-)
I'm over the hill and started listening to Bringing It All Back Home around 15yrs old and he has been at the top for me thru thick and thin as well. I have seen him 3 times now. The best time was at the Bay Front Auditorium in p'cola Florida. Small place and at some point during his acoustic set people started to leave their chairs and crowd the front stage. It was like a high-school auditorium stage that came chest high and I had my arms folded in front of me resting on the stage. No security between the crowd and stage. Bob was about 10 feet from the edge where we all were watching him like a bunch of children listening to an elder telling a great story. Bob's Lyrics book is my bible. Bob is like what Jerry said about the Dead, we are like black liquorice, people that like us really like us, people that don't, really don't. We are a particular tribe. Kinda like people that have or have not tripped on L. People that have have a unique perspective. And the Gummi is working.
@@frankwebster9110 hahaha!! I love that black licorice analogy!!
"bringing it all back home" is undoubtedly my favorite dylan album. but that "time out of mind..." that one is a shimmering gem.
I think JJ Cale would have done a interesting Dylan record. Leon Russell?
Agree 100%
Big Deal
I learned somewhere along the road of my 63 year journey to not share many of my dreams and schemes ( good name for an album)
With others because I would then have to defend them against people with fears and needs to be comfortable or conformative in the world.
First saw my life partner at a Party a friend was throwing after a Jerry Garcia Band show.
She was with someone else and so was I.
Six months later, she walks into triple rock brewing in Berkeley Ca B4 some Dead shows in Oakland looking for our mutual friend.
We have been married 25 years and where married on Big Island with Our Dear friends Peter Rowan and Slide Blues master Roy Rogers attending and playing the reception.
Saw that Mitchell/Dylan tour
Taped it with old Neumann Km54’s
Always take
“The road less traveled “
That Tommy Mars tape needs to be heard!
Thank you, Otis 🙏🏻
I'm never worried about you getting off the subject, its always an interesting dive.
I picked up my dad's old Stella about 40 years ago, learned barre chords, and wanted to write and play punk rock. Ive learned a little more over the years. I admire your work and skills at crafting the songs you play.
Also glad that you and Amy found each other. Amazed at how one seemingly small decision leads to being where we are now.
I can't say that I'm a huge Dylan fan. Im familiar with his work, and I appreciate it. I grew up listening to Pete Seeger and Arlo Guthrie, among many other singer-songwriters of the early 70s.
Im also not a big fan of learning covers. Everybody seems to cover Dylan. I get it, he's good. I just dont want to play what everyone else has or does...
Happy Wednesday and be good to you and yours 🤍
What great story telling. I have come to many of the same conclusions from different points of view. So glad I clicked on.
Great book, Otis. Picked it up in an airport once - and it promptly made the next 8 hours of travel disappear into pure delight (much like Zappa's music does).
Great story, Otis. I've heard & read various takes on the Zappa/Dylan encounter but it's fun to hear them assembled. I knew about Frank & Elvis but never heard of an approach to Bowie. You didn't mention it, and it doesn't seem to be well known, but Dylan also approached Ric Ocasek about producing that album. I'd worked with Ric since I was a teenager, before the Cars, and played on his first solo album, Beatitude, not long before he called me about this. Dylan told him he wanted a complete change, didn't want to use the same musicians and had clearly left his born again period behind. When they talked about using some fresh faces, Ric had proposed me for guitar on the record. When Ric told me this on the phone, I said, "who, Matt Dillon?" Ric laughed and said, "no, Bob." I was thrilled, naturally, and Ric told me to try and keep the time open and he'd follow up. Not long after, Ric told me Bob was off sailing in the Caribbean and he didn't know anything definite.
Apparently, this drifted through several more changes before Dylan settled on Mark Knopfler, and they had quite a lumpy time on that album, which upset Knopfler a good deal. It's fascinating to imagine the album Dylan would have made with Zappa, Ocasek or Costello, but we'll never know, will we. Would love to hear that cassette, if it still exists! Cheers.
P.S. Ian Taylor, who engineered Ric's album, Beatitude, also mixed Infidels.
Wow, now and then you can find in this channel comments that are as interesting as the video itself. Thanks for that. I was a fan of the Cars and Ocasek in my youth and always loved Jimmy Jimmy from Beatitude.
Todd Rundgren. Todd Rundgren should have done it. He made Grand Funk Railroad sound intelligent. He could do anything.
🤗🥰🥳😮🙏
Actually ZAPPA produced a great Grand Funk record as well, which was better IMO, tighter production, great fidelity. Rundgren has this effect chain he uses on all his vocals, that make them all sound like Rundgren, Zappa just made it tight, and the hit Some Kind of Wonderful, imo, us much cleaner and better produced than American band. Both are good... But it should be known that zappa could do Rundgren's style, But I doubt the reverse would be true.
Not to put a fine point on it, but compare American Band vocals to Xtc - Earn Enough for us, and Utopia - feet Don’t Fail me now. Not that they're bad, I love them all, but i would love to know what he uses to get that sound out of every vocalist! I'm guessing an Eventide, an SPX 90 stereo enhancer, and a tube distressor/altec tube comp..
@@seansweeney3532This was interesting, but for my money the best GFR albums were the first three, then I lost interest🫨
If Todd produces an act, Todd's voice isn't evident. Just his art and beauty.@seansweeney3532
Bowie producing Infidels????!!! Yowza! could've sounded l8ike Raw Power lol.
yet another great set of stories. thanks for this, otis.
like you, I'm very picky & fussy about those 80s soundworlds. I've always liked dylan. his stuff lost me after the 70s, but grabbed me again, in '98, with "time out of mind." that album is so beautiful!! daniel lanois was a perfect producer/collaborator for dylan. I really wish they'd've done more together.
I love, love, love bowie!! but his recordings fell off for me after "let's dance" all the way up until "outside," when he easily re-captured my interest & held on tight through the rest of his life.
I reeeaally wish we had a bowie-lanois collaboration to listen to. I've actually heard there once were talks of that, but obviously, it never happened.
now, I'm way off topic. I'll hafta check that costello-squeeze bit. but I think I'm gonna hafta go zappa on this one.
I loooove zappa!! he's yet another artist whose recordings lose me a bit towards the end of the 70s & grab me back at the end of the 80s.
I think tom waits is one of the few artists whose music & overall sound improved significantly in the 80s. that is, of course, to my very opinionated ears. & we all know what opinions are like... )*( haha!!
I love this album I think Knopfler did an amazing job Mick Taylor, rocks, it, and sly and Robbie crush it…The songs are epic and still resonate profoundly to this day
sweetheart like you
sundown on the union
and of course Jokerman.
Don’t forget man of peace, I and I , neighborhood bully, the whole album! It changed my life it’s my favorite album, I became a bigger knoffler fan with this album! It’s solid and a very relevant album for the 80s, Dylan was not washed up on that album, and his Christian albums are underrated also, they were more relevant than his protest music, if people would actually listen to them, people write it off because they are Christian albums, but they really say relevant things on them, but Infidels is all of it together, the musicians are top notch, and mick Taylor’s solo on sweetheart like you is the most expressive guitar solo that speaks to my soul!
@@mikescully6972 yeah right
Those songs hold up so damn well
But let’s be fucking real the best song never even made it on the album blind Willie McTell oh my god oh my god what a fucking amazing song. I actually saw Mick Taylor do that shit live one time at McCabe’s in Santa Monica that is an amazing song, and did you hear the other outtake , it’s too late that’s a really good song to- they released it fairly recently, but yeah man, you nailed it man of peace that’s right great tune- and I really like Otis’s backstory for this album because it’s true he was coming out of that born again Fais and I think it really sharpened his focus with his writing to wear something like Man of peace came out, which is just so on point like when you look at the leaders today like the
The Justin Trudeau’s real wolves in sheep’s clothing and you think back to man of peace. Dylan called that shot way back when
@@mikescully6972 yeah that’s right I and I so deep again that’s what I’m saying about when he comes out of the born-again phase. It really sharpen the focus of his writing some thing like I and I is addressing the deep, spiritual struggle for each of us between our undying self, and our egoic self - it’s about how the ego has to die before we embrace the higher self - deep spiritual theme and you can tell he was really going through it- and all the shit that comes with being so famous drugs the corruption, the egotism, hard hard lessons for the soul, and somehow we managed to get all that into a really amazing song and a really amazing album
@@mikescully6972 i’m going to say one more thing this is pre-Lanois Dylan- Otis conversation is so interesting because you can tell Dylan was really searching at this time for a sound to Xpress all the amazing content in the songs, and I think he settled on the best available situation’s to make it happen- and it obviously came together with an amazing group of musicians, but sonically I could hear Lanois producing this album and that would’ve been really really interesting because he picks up the same themes later on in oh Mercy and then time out of mind,
but both of those albums kind of have an infidel‘s vibe to them but that’s what makes infidels so great is that he was just genuinely searching to the point where he’s going from Zappa to Bowie to Elvis Costello
And finally settling on Mark Knopfler - that’s a huge range of people that he’s talking to but all of them are total innovators and great artists in their own, right so how fucking cool that- Dylan is just looking for the best person to help hum get his vision made
And the universe said OK it’s going to be Knopfler and it was a great choice
@@iamharnam well jerry wexler told knoffler to play like Albert king on slow train, and I think mark found his producing abilities on that album, I’m all about originality, and authenticity, but knoffler is unique, because he’s so dylanisc in his singing and playing,but he sounds so original to the point I think Keith and Ronnie of the stones adopted it, and really gave the stones their true sound for the 70s and 80s, no wonder they back Dylan on live aid! Lol!
I found your comments about the little decisions to do things in your life and the unexpected blessings from them very poignant. Thanks for sharing!
I like a lot of the songs on Infidels. Frank Zappa would have been very interesting.
I like Street Legal a lot too.
when Quinn the Eskimo eats the Yellow snow
Very funny dude!
Thanks for sharing the mystery of how you and Ms Amie met. I dig stories of how two good people come together. Dylan music is very special. Sometimes I struggle to listen to him sing it. I'm sure Zappa could be difficult. Most Geniuses are.
I finally caught this gem of an episode by the wondrous Otis Gibbs! How did I ever miss it the first time?
This was a great watch. I am 50 years old. Infidels was my introduction to Bob Dylan. MTV hipped me to a ton of stuff my dads record collection didn't have. I saw the Jokerman video, immediately bought the 45, and assumed Bob was from the islands. Listening to mass amounts of Dylan since then, Infidels was really never in the mix. The recent bootleg series around that time period was amazing and I uave since fallen in love with the album. I also saw Dylan in the late 90s with Ani Difranco and BR549. Dylan was amazing. I would take any one of those producers. Thanks for filling my mind with what ifs of how they all might sound.
Hey Otis, great channel
Just wanted to point you to Bob Dylans radio theme hour that's on RUclips, if you haven't heard It. Great music hosted by Bob Dylan. What more can you ask for
You might have gotten off the subject Bob Dylan but your talk about Amy and making little decisions is very wise. You are a warm guy and easy to listen to.
Very interesting. Thanks! To answer your question about Mick Taylor being on Infidels, he sure was. There's a recent "Official" video of Dylan and Mick Taylor and the other musicians in the studio playing "Version 2" of Don't Fall Apart on Me Tonight that's really good if you haven't seen it.
I always thought Frank Zappa was the smartest guy in the room. I agreed with him in his fight against censorship. He was spot on in his arguments against the PMRC.
Bob Dylan is also my favorite singer/songwriter, or composer and I loved his performances on his albums. I too am a loner in my group of friends. I have been told that if I want to go see Dylan I’d have to go by myself. Well then I will!
I have been trying to play the guitar all my life. I’m horrible. I suck. But I’ll keep trying! I love the guitar.
I’ll leave it up to Bob Dylan to find a producer of his albums. Personally I think Zappa or Bowie would have been interesting choices.
You ought to name your program, “The Rabbit Hole,” Otis. I love it when we go there.
Most of us are terrible guitar players but, it's only gotten more fun as I've gotten older. Learning new stuff either by accident or intentionally is really rewarding. Mostly just really fun! Keep rocking in the free world!
Great video as usual, thanks Otis!
I used Dylan’s, ‘My Back Pages,’ as a monologue, in a Shakespeare acting class assignment, at the IU Theatre program in my undergraduate days! The other students and the Professor were amazed with the crossover to Shakespeare within the assignment; which is also ironic when one is familiar with the particular verse concerning profs and universities!
Otis I just want to say I’ve just watched two of your you tube videos and have to say I love the way you tell a story and your vocal delivery is spot on .. I’ve just subscribed to your channel and look forward to watching more … thank you..
There's a great book about Zappa, "The Negative Dialectics of Poodle Play", a pretty comprehensive look at Frank and his work. I read it a million years ago. I seem to remember that Zappa had a love/hate relationship with Dylan's work. His '88 album had a joke where Zappa said in some banter, "Wanna buy some cave paintings, Bob?"
Great Post and story
This is a good Zappa biography
Miles does a good job
Anther great book is the Zappa Book ( not exactly an autobiography ) but great insight to Franks mind
Infidels would have worked if “ Blind Willy Mctell “ and other outtakes were on it .
Best recorded sound is Steely Dan albums
Aja 👍🏻
Excellent Otis! Pretty sure I’ve mentioned this on here before but I’ve seen Dylan twice. First time was in ‘88 at the Audubon Zoo with GE Smith and absolutely blew me away. Outdoor show and we were 20 feet away. It stormed right before the show and it was a mud hole down there, but, the tickets said “rain or shine”!! I still have the stub btw. Second time was at UNO a year or so later. Full band with horns and backup singers etc etc, but, no GE Smith and it just didn’t sound good. It felt like he was rushing things and his strat was out of tune. We walked out after the first encore along with a bunch of other folk. Much love Otis!! ☮️
I agree with you Otis. Most 80's records sound crappy. Over-produced drums too high in the mix, and guitars so thin they sound like they were played through an electric razor. And the ubiquitous Yamaha DX7 electric piano sound.
I like those first 2 or 3 Joe Jackson records though. Whoever did that would've been good for a Dylan record.
From what I remember of that Miles book, is that he takes an opportunity to put a boot into Frank on the way through.
I wonder if they discussed the Bob impersonation on "Flakes."
They found that Flatlanders demo up in that dusty box. great album now
I love the album the way it is. Infidels is in my top 5 Dyan albums.
Met Frank once, he asked if I was registered to vote. I asked for an audition, and he did say, "Send me a tape." It was right before he starting to get ill...
Never met Frank, but worked w/ Moon, Dweezil & Ahmet. Incredibly good people.
I can dig it
Where's the song Otis? 🤣 The little decisions that lead to big consequences. I enjoy your videos, man...and especially the ones where there's a Bob reference or two to chew on. Best wishes Otis.
Just awesome stuff ✌️😎
Infidels is really good... "License to Kill" is amazing! Great story! Love Zappa too! I agree about Infidels' production... so 80s sounding. ahah
We'll never know what another producer might have done. But I'm glad you learned to play guitar and I'm glad you went to that show.
I saw a similar show in SC. Saw him again in 2019 and 2022. Glad I did.
The version of Infidels I want to hear sounds like Jokerman that was performed on Letterman with the Plugs as Dylan’s backing band. If you haven’t seen it definitely check it out!
"Song For Bob Dylan," from Hunky Dory
Great channel and very good info. I mainly talk rock vinyl on my channel but I enjoy a good book now and then, thanks for sharing, Peace!
Meeting your future wife at a Bob Dylan concert!?!? That's a true rock n roll story in and of itself. Seen some stinker Dylan shows although the accompanying acts usually make up for it.
Nile Rogers should've done it.
Love it when you get off track and when you’re on track. Always a calm, uplifting vibe. Love Infidel songs but the drum sound and mix took a while to get used to. Elvis Costello would have been dynamite. Or the whole album done like that garage rock Letterman live version of Jokerman.
You do not have to like sharing time with an artist to appreciate their work.
Ezra Pound and Vincent van Gogh are two artists whose work I enjoy, but most likely would not have wanted to spend time with them.
Happenstance has great momentum; I met my partner Just Plain Cross 58 years ago; we have been together ever since.
I liked ‘Neighborhood Bully’ from the album and seems timely even today.
"You do not have to like sharing time with an artist to appreciate their work."
I'll second that emotion. Never felt I'd like spending time with Zimmy Dylan, but over years have spent more time with his records and seeing his shows than anyone else's material. I knew Dave Van Ronk socially and he did like spending time with Dylan, being the first with Big Dave's live-in creative partner and manager Teri Thal to offer the Duluth kid a downtown Village floor to sleep on. The Iron Range kid who not even Van Ronk knew was named Zimmerman and who wandered into NYC to visit Woody Guthrie in the hospital, where Zimmy met his U. of Minnesota colleague Bonnie Beecher now named some Indian mytho-poetic name along with her husband Wavy Gravy's last name of Romney.
Read Van Ronk's musical memoir completed and published by Big Dave and Teri Thal's former guitar student Elijah Wald called THE MAYOR OF McDOUGAL STREET who swear before his fame and fortune, Dylan was the class clown of Village hanging folkies and whose personality was all about being funny, which he was! I might've liked that Bob too, before his humor turned to those whose laughs came at his sharp wit's expense (and yes I laugh at those lyrics too! I just wouldn't want to share a beer with Bobby The Snark Zimmy. meanwhile Van Ronk and his partner Teri Thal were delights off stage too, hence the Bleecker Street nickname at The Bitter End dba The Other End for Big Dave as the Mayor of McDougal Street!
Keep on doing and writing artemis sidecross!
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I'm a big dylan fan I saw him in thinking on the same tour you saw him and met Amy 98 or 99. It was the only time I saw him it was a great show. There are not but a handful of Dylan albums I don't care as much for but Infidels is not in that handful. Thanks Otis and much love .
Dylan on Letterman 1984 'License to Kill' & 'Jokerman' you'll thank yourself
What a pity.
The sound production on Zappa’s records throughout the 1970’s-80’s was impeccable.
He certainly knew his way around the studio.
@Otis Gibbs I'm 100% with you in the belief that small or at least single decisions can lead to dramatic changes for the better, or occasionally the worse, that you could so easily have missed otherwise. I've got two quick ones from back when I was in college. The first was that when I was in my first year and first semester of college I was going to the local 2 year community college and I was sitting in a math class I think on the first or 2nd day of classes and had been looking around/across the class room and I saw these two guys sitting next to each other on the other side of the room. I kinda recognized them from having seen them at some of the small shows that happened downtown in our little city (Rome, GA if you know where that is). But they had on band t-shirts and jeans - which was basically how I was dressed too and so they stood out a bit from the rest of the folks, as did I in the same manner. And at any rate, I went home that night and I took out my CD's and a cassette and I made a cassette mix-tape of as many different groups of as many different genres of music as I could think of in order to give to them as a sort of introduction. I have to say that I'm generally a pretty shy introverted person and up until a year or two prior to this I doubt I would have had the gumption or the self-confidence to do something like this, but I'd gone through some really rough experiences in my last two years of high school that had drastically reshaped my overall perspective and how I related to the world in general - and that transformation of a sorts I definitely credit with giving me the nerve and what have you to make that introduction to those two guys, who became two of my closest friends and then band-mates shortly thereafter. Also ended up dating the sister of one of the two guys for a couple years a little bit later. But, had I not introduced myself to those guys (incidentally, one of the two essentially responded by making one and giving it to me a few days later) I never would have been in a band, never would have gotten further into playing and working on music - prior to that I had screwed around on guitar and keyboards etc a little bit, but when it comes to instrument playing I'm not a natural and my journey to playing music been kinda a story of dragging myself kicking and screaming through practicing and just plain sticking with it over the last 25 or so years. But yeah, I never would have been in a band, played shows, recorded a couple albums with our group and also found out how much I loved that experience of getting up in front of folks to play in spite of my reserved nature otherwise. The band lasted 3 or 4 years until folks had to go their separate ways, and I haven't been in one since then even though I've kept at playing myself and recording here and there - and I'm still in contact with one of the guys from the band on Facebook (of course lol).
I think I'll leave it at this one story, this is plenty long enough (as is my tendency on here when it comes to commenting on videos) and it gets the idea across. But yeah, I absolutely could have missed out on what eventually became in one way or another the arc of my life over the next 10 years post that introduction, and probably half or even 2/3 of the close to 100 people on my friends list on FB (yeah I know, most people have hundreds but anyrate ;-) ) are folks that I met during that time through these other two guys or through playing in our band etc. So the lasting impact of that mix-tape introduction still reverberates through my life to the present - that intro having taken place in the early fall of 1999.
I love Infidels, amazing band and underrated songs. One phenomenon I have with Infidels and Basement Tapes, Hooker and Heat and a few other records is as much as I love them and think there classic I hesitate to play them.I have a visceral hesitation before I play the records and I wonder if it has to do with production or over all vibe or energy. Hence I only play them every year or so. Love it when I do. Must have the Hesitation Blues.
Zappa would have brought something totally different to the table. I think Zappa would have needed to be in charge, two chiefs and no Indians. Zappa, Beefheart, Waits, folks like that don't collaborate much if ever. What if Zappa were in the Traveling Wilburys ? That is another topic. You give me food for thought Otis.
Peace MJS
I and I is a haunting great song
Mark for sure. The album changed my life. The way it is. I can't imagine it anyone else producing it. I absolutely see your point, from your point of you and appreciate it.
I got into Dylan a few years after I went through the mid sixties rock era when I learned to play guitar. Highway 61, Blonde on Blonde, and John Wesley Harding inspired me to get an acoustic, harmonica and harmonica holder. I completely skipped his Christian stage and the entire 1980s. His subsequent music was hit or miss for me, but I still consider him to be a major influence on my musical development. Great video Otis.
"It's okay to be who you think you want to be." Learning that -- and I learned it later than you did, mainly because the substances I was using kept me from learning it -- is high on the list of the most important lessons I've learned. Thanks for sharing that.
That's really cool Otis. I would bet someone has that tape. You and I have a lot of the same tastes in music!! Elvis producing that would have been interesting!! You have great views on music and life!! Talking about yourself at the end and your partner Amy hits home with me!! I know where that's at!! Seeing Joni in that show would have been cool and it sounds like that was the show you were meant to be at brother!!!! DAMN the split second decision can go different ways! Be cool Brother!!
Entertaining and thoughtful rant, today.
Was that a reference to Art Pepper, regarding the choices one makes with the liquor store ?
I do love Infidels. The recently released outtakes is also very interesting.
Be Well
Nice, about to buy the book right now. Love Zappa, not Dylan so much but thanx for the heads up!
The long Arc of History bending towards being your authentic self. That's great, Otis!
The best version of Jokerman was on the Letterman show. Much different than the album. It’s on RUclips.
I have always felt that Neighborhood Bully was written in a "Keith Richards style." It certainly could be sung by Richards.
Its easy to stay home. Its much harder to get off the couch and pick up a guitar...
BUT IT WILL BE WORTH IT! It happened to me and I had an 8 year run . At age 50, i found Bluegrass music. I was out 4 nights a week and went to a ton of jams, house parties and festivals. I totally relate to you Otis. My health issues have stopped me from all that i loved , but i still have my guitars and banjos!!
None of my friends liked Dylan, back in the day and I had to make new friends
Thanks for the great stories. I've never thought of Zappa and Dylan being on opposite ends of the spectrum...but maybe. I'm 72 and have been a big fan of both. My experience with Dylan shows is just the opposite of yours. I got to see Rolling thunder in November 76. It was trancendetal. I've seen a number of shows since including Dylan and Phil Lesh and Dylan opening for the Dead at Highgate VT. He and his band did more in an hour and a half than the Dead did for the rest of the night (I'm also a deadhead) The one show I didn't go to was I think in the late 70s or early 80s at a local venue where I live. It was out doors at a fairgrounds and I can remember my reason for not going. A lot of my friends went and everyone was pissed. Bob apparently played the entire show with his back to the audience. Weird! I can say that I have never been to a bad Dylan show. As for writing songs he's in a league by himself. Thanks again.
I saw a horrible Dylan show in 1988 , he was awful, no interaction with the crowd at all , played every tune completely different to how it was recorded. In 50 years of going to shows it’s the only gig I truly hated . To make it even worse my then girlfriend worshipped him so I had to stay and suffer through the whole thing .
I would have loved Dylan to have produced Infidels (2nd choice Nick Lowe or Costello). I think it would have been interesting to have tried his hand at this one. Imo, it was Bob's best 80s lp but could have used a bit more roughness. Either that, or Nick Lowe could have provided the proper pop feel. Costello , as a brilliant songwriter himself), might have helped Bob tighten up the weaker bits. I have loved Dylan since my dad brought home a used mono copy of Blonde on Blonde from a pawnshop. It was then that I discovered that words meant as much as music (maybe more).
Especially funny in regard to Zappa's imitation of Dylan in "Flakes" on Sheik Yerbouti.
That's Belew doing Dylan.
Thanks for sharing those stories. The image of Bowie cornering Dylan at a party, blathering away, is hilarious and I love the way Bowie makes himself the butt of the joke when describing it. I totally agree about the sound of Infidels--very cold and lifeless, even though he had great musicians backing him. Something about 80s mainstream records just sounded terrible. Even Elvis Costello's and Bowie's stuff sounded bad at that point so I'm not sure if they would've made a difference. I really can't imagine Zappa's manic, busy arrangements going well with Dylan. In spite of that, Infidels is still the only Dylan album that I liked at all from the late 70s-mid 90s. He had a long dry spell, but there were a few great songs on that one, especially Sweetheart Like You.
I'm turning 74 this July (next month). I discovered Dylan on my own about 64 or 65 and kept my interest to my self until I found the rare exceptions in the high school crowd who gave a damn. They seemed to be too weird for normal. I never went to a Dylan concert though I've been to a Zappa concert (back in 72). The best years for me were the early Mono years that began for me with Another Side. That Dylan, the folk Dylan turned to the surrealism of Blonde On Blonde. Can't extract my life from those times.
Awesome!
Hey, just happened to come across this video. Great subject matter. Love bob and never heard this story. I think it would have been very interesting for frank to produce this record. Infidels is one of the first lps I bought of Dylan’s after owning the greatest hits for years. I now own most of his catalog. You are a very interesting and intelligent guy. I’ve been playing music most of my life. You seem like a kindred spirit even though we’ve never met, it’s like I’ve met ya before. I’ll keep up with your channel. 👍.
Have you heard the SACD of it?!!! My family bought me a player and like 6 of the set for Christmas when the Dylan 15 or so were released. Oddly enough, I picked infidels to pop in first... Ohhhhhhh Jokerman. Sitting in the exact same place I heard the SACD, I now have chills running down my spine. As I listened the first time, I just couldn't stop crying ... how beautiful the sound was.
Get the SACD, get a Player... heck, collect them all! ... to answer the question, agreed on Elvis, but would prefer a version by each please.
Otis, I like what you said about those split second decisions having a major (positive/negative) impact on lives. I think Neil Young expressed it so very well in his lyrics to “Leave The Driving To Us” off GREENDALE:
Then Jed pulled the trigger
In a split-second tragic blunder…
(Check out all the lyrics, so good)
BTW, that’s a favorite NY album. Saw him do it in concert and it was definitely not what people were expecting. Lots of bellowing for the hits, but come ON! It’s Neil Young! Those songs were stuck in my head for weeks and it’s still one of my favorites.
I am a huge fan of both Zappa and Dylan, since the late 1960s. I have heard and read a few passing comments about this over the years but never got any details. Moon was apparently home that day and mentions it briefly in an interview somewhere. The idea sounds great but, Zappa did in fact produce a few records for other bands (e.g., Grand Funk Railroad 1976) and the results are very good, well produced recordings, but they are pretty much void of the “Zaapaesque” qualities one might imagine.
Although some songs are stronger that others, all and all I think Infidels is a great album. The lyrics of a song like Jokerman are enough to hold my fascination regardless of any shortcomings in the production or musical sophistication. When it comes to rock music, Dylan is the ultimate lyricist, and Zappa was the ultimate composer in my book.
I was working for Frank at the time, and he briefly mentioned this meeting. Frank told me he thought Dylan had gone through his entire address book alphabetically and had finally gotten to Z and contacted him. Like many things regarding Frank, there are lots of differing versions of events.
Thanks Otis. Remarkable.
So very true what you say about learning to play the guitar it takes years and it's painful but the whole process developing your ear learning to hear something off of radio and play it is a true accomplishment and then some weird ways makes you feel like you become more of a whole person
A few years ago, Bob played at Jazz Fest in New Orleans. Friends encouraged me to come because “Bob Dylan was playing.” I attended and thought Dylan’s performance was great. My friends “hated” it. I ‘d loved Bob’s music for decades. My friends only knew he was famous but were ignorant about his music.
0:00 Dear, Otis. ZAPPA by Barry Miles is in my top 3 music biographies. The other 2 are: CASTLES MADE OF SOUND. (Gil Evans) and LUST FOR LIFE (Billy Strayhorn). I'm sorry I don't remember the Authors. Hope you can get around to reading them.
The one song that hooked me is I and I. Guess it’s time for another listen.
I think Zappa's recordings are some of the absolute best sounding recordings I have.
Jerry Jeff Walker said go down the wrong road in the wrong direction and it's bound to turn out right
Really like your videos and I too am a big fan of Dylan. I must say that I did like the sound of Infidels and part of it's because of Knopfler and the influence of Sly Dunbar and Robby Shakespeare. That rhythm section was outstanding on that recording in my opinion. Still play it often.
Frank mocked Dylan on stage during the '77 tour. What a bizarre evening that must have been with Bob hanging out at Frank's. I'd pay a lot of money to hear that tape.
actually Belew, I forget if it was during his audition or later, learning Flakes, thinking it sounded like a lame folk song, started doing Dylan: "That's in the show!" - Frank
I read that the recording was all digital and that Knopfler had to leave on tour before editing.
If he had the time and his own studio.... knopfler would've nailed it
Jokerman and I and I are gems... but I've never heard them performed to their full potential.
Infidels is actually my favorite Dylan album
A Sweetheart Like You just slays me
Hey Otics !
Bowie would have been an interesting choice , I've ordered a copy of the the Zappa book, look forward to reading it, thanks !
Bowie was coked up that night for sure
Love this record. It was my gateway drug to Sly and Robbie. Their groove on Jokerman sent me down the rabbit hole to find out more about them.
Maybe a different producer would’ve used somebody else?
I’ve seen Dylan many, many times. Among them, two of the best and two of the worst shows ever. I still would consider seeing him again. Cheers, Otis!!!
Saw him twice in the 90s one was pretty good and the other was the most painfully loud show I've ever been to, not in a good way. Love him still the same:)
T-Bone should produce Dylan. Incredible that it hasn't happened. Or Van Dyke Parks.
I walked out of a Dylan show once it was that bad. Then you hear from someone about how good Dylan's shows are (after you not wanting to see a bad one); and you realize you gotta take the good with the bad. BTW Im glad you went to that show man. I know you are too. :-) I really enjoy your stuff. You are refreshingly real and easy to listen to. I thought Infidels was a pretty good album overall. Several really good tracks. Keep kicking tail man. Music is life
I've seen him 3 times. Actually 4 now that I think about it. 2 times were in small places and were fantastic. The other 2 were big shed shows. One of those was was at deer creek in Noblesville and it was pretty good. The other was just him going through the motions really.
I think k the smaller venues are better for both him and the fans. More intimate and not as easy to phone in.
Imagine having a time machine and going back to May 26th, 1966 to see Dylan live at the Royal Albert Hall!
Cosmic!
Fifty years of going to concert, Dylan was the only one I really hated . I would have left early but my then girlfriend worshipped him so I suffered through the whole show .
From those choices Bowie is the most inconceivable collaboration - so that’s the one I’d want to hear.
Eighties production has grown on me. I struggled with it for a long time.
Bob Boilen wrote an article named, “Nobody Ruins Dylan Like Dylan,” regarding Dylan’s live performances. There are plenty of officially issued albums that support that conclusion. With regard to Zappa producing Dylan, it sure would have been interesting. In the end, I’d be worried that Zappa’s perfectionist tendencies might have crept in. My favorite Dylan albums are the ones on which he’s the most loose. I don’t believe that Zappa would have produced anything as loose as “Like a Rolling a Rolling Stone,” and I don’t think that Knopfler could have either for exactly the same reason.
I've always heard that Bob Dylan was always a hit or miss with live shows. I think he said in his book it all depended on have the right amount of whiskey, not too much and not too little.