Staircase fitting basics
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- Опубликовано: 22 авг 2020
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Staircase fitting, an introduction
I have fitted loads of staircases over the years, I felt it may be useful to take you through the basic fundamentals of fitting a staircase 
Хобби
Another classic video Robin well done you always give good sound advice/ tips guys like you were not around in my day thank you for another lesson in carpentry.
Brilliant video again Robin I like the simplicity of how you describe your tasks.
So good, thanks for your honest and realistic approach. I’ve had to learn all my skills on the job. With information like you provide, every days a school day. Thanks
it's is sometimes stressful, but there's nothing better than when it's all in place and you're walking up it.
I was lucky enough to have a boss who's had previous experience in manufacturing stair cases, so i got to make my own staircase in the first few months of working.. A very enjoyable few weeks.
It is alot easier and cheaper to buy already made ones, but making your own gives you the knowledge of how they're put together
Amazing. We're having stairs put in next year for our dormer, lots of insight from this video, cheers.
Great serious of videos and pleasure to see old school tradesman who shows such skill with ease
It’s a test of your measuring ability installing steel box-beam mono stringers; measure five times, measure again, order. Trust that you got it right or you’ve wasted $10000! Cracking job, Robin. Made it look easy - as you always do 👌
You are so right!!! Thanks for the comment Matthew
So much information from you. Quality workmanship
I have a lot of respect for Robin. I do wonder does the perfectionist in him ever get the better of him in the past? Sometimes I think I would make a lot more money if I cared less and lowered my standards.
Robin has made enough money. He's a very wealthy man.
@@jrsuk1170 I don't doubt that. Just saying sometimes I over faff trying to be too precise with something (site carpentry isn't building snooker tables) when really it shouldn't be a Labour of love.
@@TurinTuramberI know what you mean but remember we are seeing the RUclips videos - not real life. We all know what RUclips keyboard experts are like. If you're putting something out on RUclips you've got to do it right even if in real-life you let things go. That's my take anyway.
@@jrsuk1170 You are spot on. RUclips is nothing like "real life" when it comes to building site life.
The value of the project will govern the quality of the finish. If you're working to a tight budget you simply can't afford a 5 star end result, I've been a chippy for around 20 years and have really had to learn to start chucking up stud work and framing quickly & if I'm honest to a slightly lower standard than I'd like to so I can turn an actual profit. I've worked for and with many impeccable carpenters over the years who are really struggling to make a good margin.
Thanks for this video just installed kite winder staircase today never installed one before but this video definitely helped me out with your tips . One thing I did do Which definitely helped me out was a used my kreg jig on all the treads underneath and found this was great as could screw all the treads into string and then drive the wedges home . When I did a dry run found when I was putting wedges in its easy to have a few mm gaps to appear on each tread and the kreg jig stopped that thanks
Hi Robin. Fascinating to watch this, didn't quite get my head around the cut outs in the top newels which look quite complicated. I have only built two staircases myself ( one with help and the second on my own) from scratch, neither had winders. Several of my glue blocks fell off the last short straight stair but it might have been because the treads became slightly bowed across the depth. They were sawn and thicknessed by the woodyard ( in France) at the same time which I guess was the reason. It still creaks a bit but as it's only 8 steps down to our en-suite bathroom we have " got used to it". Still a bit irritating though! As always a joy to watch you work and an inspiration to me to improve my technique. Interesting to watch you cutting out and chopping out the mortises on the newels. Mike
Wish i met you in my apprenticeship, great video, thanks.
such an absolute joy to watch
Thanks Robin, never seen a turning staircase fitted 👍 magic
No problem 👍
Well Ive just eaten my hat Robin,I did my apprenticeship 3 years in a joinery working close to a stair-maker we used to make them in the workshop and go out on site to fit them.I have never ever seen anybody start from the top down.We would always build up from the first step,I am amazed how simple and easy that looked.Thanks for sharing these methods!
YES ALWAYS FROM THE TOP
Did the stairs fit working from the bottom 🤔 of course they did once you've done the maths they'll fit😉 it's just the assembly and fitting method that may change depending on the building but they'll always fit I'm not telling you something you already know from experience 😉 📐🔨
david richardson
of a pair of horses
Jobs are good as you say! So right to start at the top, get all the difficult bits in first, much easier to make adjustments. I love lasers but also chalklines and stringlines and battens can be useful to reference everything when dealing with complex constructions
Lovely job Robin. Enjoyed the process. Cheers.
Glad you enjoyed it
Great video Robin ,thanks
Hi Robin awesome video, nice set of kites, so true about the carpentry zone with some great tunes on in the back ground all the best Tony 👍
Fantastic joiner there im learning alot from these videos
I love giving anything a go. Currently doing my own loft conversion. Not sure about building the stairs from scratch though, might be abit much. Looking at using a company to build it, and IL install it.
There's alot of work in a loft conversion you'll probably need someone to help with the steel
enjoyed that Robin, nice job
Great to watch, thanks.
Bloody brilliant ,Rob.
Hard to believe that only ten years ago I retired from hand building and installing stuff like this in solid oak. Now the thought of doing it terrifies me!
Yes or walking into a joinery shop again after years away doing other work. For no good reason I didn’t get much sleep the night before thinking I’d struggle to set up a spindle moulder or set out external door frames. Funny how the mind works.
I feel I need to re do my apprenticeship with you and I finished mine 10 years ago or so 😂
me too! lol
Your shit then
Great video.
Once again you make it look easier than it is 🤣🤣
I’m an electrician and watch all you’re videos
I have seen many of those glued blocks fall off. I use mdf bracing which overlaps the back of the tread and riser, glued and pinned. As soon as a carpet fitter gets his bolster and hammer in to get a tight fit you can kiss goodbye to your risers
Top work Robin. well done
Thank you! Cheers!
Great content mate quality stuff
Didn't know about the glue blocks. Thought i had to pin them so that'll save some time, thanks👍 did get a bit excited seeing the framing square though and expected a link to buy one!
99% of firms still pin them
Adding pins is another place to make a squeak, I like to use some 3x2 timber across the whole back of trend and glue and screw through the trend and risers
Strikes me as a man who is NEVER happy with the standard unless he does it himself 😂
Sounds like he is my wife
Nice work, Robin. Was waiting for sponsored by Titebond after saying they never fall off 👍🏻
Would be good to see how you measure up and set out a staircase before ordering.
oooohhh my when did Ikea start making stairs ..lol...... thats quite the modular system looks good Sir ....another wonderful video .....
It was a long term battle, but I got a new staircase for our mid-30s semi before we moved in. The original was steep, working loose, and my size 8 shoes were way longer than the steps. Wife and builder (very sound and excellent) said not to bother. My son helped me with some digging and said he'd like a word - about the stairs not being safe - his size 11 shoes were twice length of steps. That made my case! First staircase provider came, measured up, said only one way of making them to fit (which would not have made much difference to rise and going), quoted, and we ordered but I wasn't happy with his attitude and had instinct that there could be a better design. His brother came and was much easier to deal with but the first guy called the shots. Tried someone else, gave up the deposit with the first company (they hadn't ordered the staircase from their supplier). New chap measured more carefully, was calmer, and suggested putting kite in the turn. With extending the whole staircase closer to a door, we got an extra step in the whole staircase, increased the going by about 2cm, decreased rise a bit. Result - whole street jealous of our safer stairs. Difficulty is identifying the good tradespeople. But stairs are important - old ones often don't comply with modern regulations and, consequently, aren't safe. We then heard of several folk in the street who had slipped and suffered serious injuries even leading to death due to the 'heritage' stairs. Videos like this help the home improver talk intelligently to the supplier and sniff out those who listen, respond, offer alternatives with reasons.
Hi Robin great content as always. I was curious what was going between the stairs and wall and how it was going to be fitted.
That's well done Robin. Personally i would have plaster boarded that wall first.
What no level on newel posts or winder treads, it's a must-do before fixing strings back to wall.
Both staircases and rafter setting out have a lot in common. It's all about going/run and
remebering always one more riser than tread.
On our site we stopped using glue blocks because stairs kept squeaking. We put a full timber in there instead with glue and screws and they never squeak anymore
In all my years I didn’t know those blocks were to prevent squeaking haha thanks mate
It gets worse when people hear squeaking and start putting nails in !
Great video, found it massively informative!! So am I right in thinking that the stairs are "braced" and won't buckle in the middle when someone walks on it, because they're attached to the vertical wall studs? Thanks again!!!
grate job robin
The tiny little stringer, which caused all the fun. Would like to have seen that part of the story.
Great video. I've seen a few different companies who do stair kits, it there one you would recommend Robin?
Have you a link as to where you got it from?
Thank you for sharing Robin, I love making staircases but unfortunately the cnc machines are robbing me of making them.
It went from nearly one a month to now it’ll be one a year, 😄 did a video tutorial of the last one I made cause I was beginning to think it might be my last one. Keep up the good work 👍🔨📐😄
Gary Thomson Joinery Get yerself a CNC then!
Norman Boyes aye might have yet 😄
another great video! would love to see a video on your hand tools you use day to day. 😁
Thanks for the idea!
Hi mate how did you get the perfect cut out for where the nosing sits ?
"Thinking about making your own stair case? FORGET IT!"
Best bit of advice ever.
Couldn't disagree more strongly. That's why we have low skilled tradesmen of today compared to the highly skilled tradesmen of yesteryear. Big mass production companies have taken away the necessity for people to learn these kinds of skills. Skills that are being lost forever.
great video again , I would rather watch you work than anything or TV
Snap. During last 8 months, I've largely given up TV for RUclips videos like this and then doing jobs on house
So did you end up with 6'-8" clear nosing to bottom of joist header? Do you have 4" min. tread to riser at the inside of the winder?
Hiya Robyn.
If space wasn't an issue...
Straight stair case.
We'll say 13 x 200 mm risers...
Regs say between 220 and 300 mm 'going'...
What would be the ideal / most comfortable / ideal size going?
Carpentry Juices! is this Robins next product release after the magic roofing square? I'll take a 6 pack!
Any news on the square Robin.?
Brilliant video robin I pin my blocks should I not do that ? But fitting a stair case is an enjoyable job I’ve got to take a oak straight flight out and spin it around so that fun
The crucial thing, as we saw Robin do, is to press the glue block firmly while moving from left to right. This guarantees the thinnest film of glue - wood closest to wood - with a bit squidging out all around; the same reason we clamp after glueing. This creates that 'suction' for an 'instant stick' . Should be no need to pin, though it wouldn't do any harm.
What glue do you use Robin?
Another great video just wondering about the half nule at the bottom didn't see one
Sorry newel
Wow that's nice
I've seen in some 1930s houses where the loft stairs over the existing stairs have cut across the existing landing window but the hole is mostly blocked and just a thin gap of window light between stair stringer and wall. What's the name for that?
Are the stairs never fixed to the wall? The posts are not supported on the floor below? I ask because we had one of those installed during an attic conversion (two turns) and the second turn has quite a bit of movement on the far (wall) edge. We tried to caulk it to the plasterboard but the gap keeps opening. Its about 5mm or so gap with the weight on.
Looks like you kept your mates Kapex.
Not using the big red brand for accurate work ?
hi Robin love the vids keep them coming all the best mate Kev /sainsburys hope to see you soon one day
Hi Kev, good to hear from you mate!! will drop into Sainsbury"s and say hi!!!! we can grab a coffee!!
a Bricky I was working for decided to fit stairs I had ordered.Next day..You measured wrong they didn't fit!! He hadn't cut top riser or newel but sawn the btm tread.Screwed together with plasterboard screws.He was very proud of putting my work right.I said well done and left.
Sorry pal but you've lost me do you mean cut the top tread instead riser
@@tomsmith9048oops yeah Tread & stringer making the total going too long
Was so hoping one would fall off lol great job
It did before the edit! 😉
I've just fit one today on a new build, the full house had been plasterboard and skimmed, so when Ive cut back the landing I noticed the 'trimmer' joist was one of those I beams just dosnt seem right . Thoughts???
Well Harry the joists should have been signed off by the building inspector so hopefully!!!
@@ukconstruction my thoughts aswel, I'd much prefer if the newel was notched over a solid piece of timber.
Robin, you very much represent the pinnacle of carpentry - I have just subscribed. You know how you notch the newel posts at the top of a flight - would the same have to be done at the bottom of a flight if the lower floor were of suspended timber construction?
In some cases yes, it can stop the bottom newel from moving, however most manufacturers send the bottom newel cut to sit on the floor!!
Should/Can you screw the glue blocks from both sides or just only glue them? Pros / Cons?
The crucial thing, as we saw Robin do, is to press the glue block firmly while moving from left to right. This guarantees the thinnest film of glue; wood closest to wood - with a bit squidging out all around - the same reason we clamp after glueing. This creates that 'suction' for an 'instant stick' . Should be no need to screw, though it wouldn't do any harm.
Is it best practise to fit the staircase blocked off the wall like this one prior to dot and dab plaster boarding or plaster first?
if I had a choice and I trusted the dot and dabbers then I would fix against, but equally blocking off is very easy to do and the dabbers can then work to follow the margin on the stairs
@@ukconstruction thanks for to advice. I’ll fix after plaster then. Too much difficulty in plastering the limited space if the stairs are in place...
My floor to floor will be running level with engineered oak at the too so I’m guessing best to have the flooring running under the bottom stair too...
The trouble with standard stair manufacture is that they are all the same and like this one, in what appears to be a bespoke house, is the same as would be provided on a cheap housing estate. The house deserves better. The staircase in a house should be a piece of art not just a lump of construction, it usually is in the most prominent position as you enter the house and generally its not orthogonal as the main walls of the house, its a feature that needs to be celebrated. A bespoke staircase will cost say from £3000 compared to £1000 for an off the shelf CAD designed unit, which is peanuts when compared with the £100,000+ of the whole house.
Having a feature staircase can add real value to a house. I designed a feature staircase for a client that cost £10,000, plus a little remodelling of the entrance to make the most of it. The house that was bought with an apology of an entrance and stair for £380k was sold 5 years later with the feature entrance and staircase for £650k, a pure profit of £250k !!! The staircase and entrance created the WOW! factor that the house desperately needed.
Robin, great job as always. Do you not need 400mm between front door and first nosing for building regs satisfaction?
This is a garage and store, I believe if the stairs are facing the door then you need the space, if as in our case the stairs is at right angles to the door then as long as it does not encroach over the door opening then that's cool
@@ukconstruction assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/443181/BR_PDF_AD_K_2013.pdf
Page 11 - 1.23 / 1.24. Looks like I've got the same problem in my garage with the front door opening at right angles into the landing area.
I think the build regs must have changed, as it was formerly not allowed to have winders at the top, only the bottom? Or is my memory failing me?
As long as the rise and going are all equal measured in the centre of the stair and any kite or winder is no less than 50mm at the newel then you can have turns with winders and kites at any position, indeed we have fitted stairs that are all turning treads!! Hope that helps
Just curious if your Festool saw cuts a parallel trough. I'm on my second machine, and even that is not 100%. As far as I can see there is no adjustment, i.e the arms not being perfectly parallel to the base.
If you get the Festool supplementary manual ( from USA I think) it has a lot of detail about how to correct this. Robin has also done a video on it. Essentially what you need to do is adjust the alignment of the base to the blade. If it's a new saw Festool will sort this out for you under warranty.
@@katabrontes Thanks for the reply. I have seen Robins video, but my understanding was that demo'ed correction in the horizontal plane. (Ah, problem with an explanation in a few words.) My machine cuts square .i.e. in respect to left and right. But if, say several 50mm cuts were made in a 75mm thick piece of timber, to form a trough (open mortice?), the remaining thickness at the front will be different to the back. This was a replacement machine from the importer, as the first one was worse. The second machine is better but certainly way off perfect. Obviously, if you cut through the timber completely, the problem never arises. :-)
Peefor I would contact Festool. Their warranty service is exceptional. They will arrange collection and return after fixing any problems. The warranty is 3 years and covers everything including wear and tear. You don't even need to break the machine down into original packaging, the carrier will take it as it is.
My staircase is like this with the winder quarter turn below the ceiling level, but the newel post is to the floor. Is that fully supported or does it need something to support the floating corner? Any advice really welcome thanks
This stairs will have a studwork spandrel and cupboard beneath it that will ultimately support it, it does not need that from a strength point of view these stairs are plenty strong enough as they are too, I really like the full newel as you describe... it gives you a nice solid firm staircase, all the best James
@@ukconstruction many thanks Robin, mine does currently have a cupboard with a door frame that I guess would provide some support. I intend to remove it and just wondered if it actually needed any support on that floating section?
@@ukconstruction cracking video Robin 👍 I have taken out the cupboard and stud wall that was underneath my staircase , I have noticed a crack along one side of the stringers on the stair case, would I need to put another support back in ? I’ve know I haven’t cut away a newl post just timber studs and cupboard door lining, is it possible for staircase to be just self supporting , pretty sure mine is a winder at top similar to your video and then the newel at top sits onto a steel trimmer, just hoping I’ve not made it structurally unsound
Was the manufacturers, stair box?
Where did you get your square from? The one you use to mark your birdsmouths out and you have in your hand at the start of this video? Love watching your vids only came across them last week, I build luxury park homes and lodges.
Hi Matt, I got my square back in the late 80's, the fence is home made, I have a new roofing square and fence in development and should be out later in the year, look at the videos on my channel and I talk about this, thanks for watching and your comment mate have a good day
@@ukconstruction Nice 1, Ill have a look through! Have a good day yourself mate, I only asked because it looks like a really handy square to have in your kit ..Cheers👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
What country makes Hikoki saws?
It's the new name for the old brand HITACHI...............corporate move
Stavros
Quite often in 1930s houses the loft stairs cut across landing windows.
My father scoffed at cnc . He then saw a cnc stringer router in operation . That was decades ago. He had thought I was out of my mind.
Yep Machines replace human labor for a lower price. But It cannot look at the grain to see how to machine it. It still takes an experienced operator.
Hi Robin, any idea how easy/costly to move a ground/1st floor staircase please?
Many variables there... it will very much depend on the amount of structural timber work needed in the re arrangement of the floor joists, I have done a couple that where pretty straightforward and it was only a few man days to adjust layouts etc and then a few days to slot in the new stairs, on the other hand I have done some that require lots of alterations with steelwork and beams to make the existing structure comply, seek the help from a structural engineer as this is notifiable works under building regulations so it would need a building notice at the very least, hope that helps
Do you prefer the stair area plaster boarded first ? I know dryliners do on site lol .
Its nice if you can get the wall board on first as it is easier for the tackers!!! so yep I prefer that way if possible
Surprised me. I thought the earlier parts of the video would be superseded by later, boarded walls before fitting. If possible finish the wall, including paint, first. Easy for the decorator to make good any digs, etc.
How much roughly would a staircase cost. I am thinking of moving my staircase to the other side of the house. Just a standard straight one. Between buying it and getting a carpenter to fit it. Anyone have any experience of doing this?
I'm sure many of us might, but like all jobs, there is no one price, and local conditions upon survey can make any unseen ball park estimate a worthless exercise.
I was asked by someone on holiday, how much for a loft conversion?
After a brief description of what they wanted, I had to say £20 to £80k. Pointless.
15:44 I pulled the plaster and lath from under my stairs off and all those blocks just fell off, they had probably been there 140 years though lol
Using glue made from boiled bones, a product of the 'renderers' and heated up to apply.
Often got eaten by bugs! Long before our PVA days !!
I like to show your videos to my students. You have a caring meticulous approach to woodwork, and that's exactly like how I like to work. would you consider inviting us to one of your projects to help out for a day?
Thank you very much!
Yes Ian you and your students would be welcome to visit
i have never just glued the blocks on, i have built a staircase in a hallway, the top end to the bottom and the bottom at the top and not enough room to turn it. That was fun, wont do that again.
👍
I would love the chance to work with you for a few weeks or so to hone In my skills. Love the vids
Same here
👍🏻
Remember a wee bit of DPC underneath the bottom of the stair 😉
We have it under the slab
Can you recommend some manufacturers please?
Hi Mike, I tend to use Stairbox, their online design tool is great, the price and availability is also good but best of all the quality is good too, hope that helps mate
@@ukconstruction legend mate, infact stair box has also been recommended to me today. I'll go measure up and give them a try. Thanks so much for your speedy response. All the best mate
They do fall off robin trust me I always pin em with brad gun and also screw the risers into back of treads , some nail em with ring shanks . Wonder why they don’t custom make the wedges ? 2 ft would be the longest . Nice flight though
Thought you would have had a solid oak or something else posh?
He will veneer it to match the doors
@@I-am-not-a-number in a month off Sunday's
There are different types of staircase straight, half. quarter, winding, spiral, curve e.c.t
Where the aperture has been trimmed there is a double joist what's the point when the double isn't fixed to a double?
It on a double hanger that probably isn't shown in this case but building regs will state it
@@tomsmith9048 the ends of the double fix to a single if u see what I mean
@@Droningonuk if it's not resting on a load bearer a wall or rsj it will be on joist hangers but you might mean something else
Hi Alistair, well spotted, the double trimmer is having a wall built directly beneath it to separate the stairs from the garage below for fire regs etc so the structural trimming needed to be less, great comment...
@@ukconstruction kool I wasn't sure if it was a silly rule but to me it seemed crazy to reinforce something only to fix it to something weak thanks for clearing that up best regards.
Nice job robin , please make it clear to most of your viewers the difference between domestic carpentry and site carpentry, I class you as in domestic side as process speed , which I add is not a criticism. However us site boys have to put numerous flights in a day . The same flight we get £130 on price so no flapping about . By the way last job for us is newel and tread protection and total safety rails still in on our price . Robin I do enjoy your chanel👍
( I don’t expect a reply)?
Ffs! Is that all they paying on stairs on site these days......that doesn't include ballustrading/spindles aswell surely? I've not worked sites for 12 years. Id hate having to fit things on the cheap, rushing and cutting corners just so I can make money. I need to be able to enjoy my job and be able to leave a job knowing I've fitted something 100% the perfect way.....i hate compromise. Certainly don't miss site work
Don't forget now we have to cut the stairwell out and remove the sacrificial joists and hangers and dispose of them in the same price!
Just remember the principle contractor is charging at least 50 to 75 pound an hour per carpenter then the principal contractor passes it to the carpentery firm who probably sub contracts it so by the time you get your price its DIRT your worth more pal trust me they just take advantage
Site work is bottom of the barrel, cheap materials, cheap work, rush, rush, rush! It's a race to the bottom, stay away from sites.
Craig crofts
Hi Craig sounds like there’s some site hating chippys out there . I’ve meet them ., also ready to criticise, I’ve been on building sites for a long Time now and seen these type of characters. Some of the best chippys I’ve meet have always been site workers. Probably get criticised for that comment but I stand by it .
2:46 dab
Love how this video is titled "staircase basics" when it is anything but basic! 😂
Jim Newlands few decades of experience you forget how much you know and others don’t I suppose. 🤣🤯
The first thing you learn about staircases is that there is nothing simple about how they contracted or set out!
Another great video but please invest in a wireless mic as some of the audio is not the best.
Working on it!
Fuckin awesome. Kick ass