Hogwarts Reacts: LOST - S06E15 "Across The Sea"
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- Опубликовано: 16 апр 2020
- WE ARE ALMOST THERE! Can't believe its almost over!
***PLEASE mark all spoilers with a spoiler tag for those subscribers that are watching along with us!***
Hogwarts (and crew) react to LOST. WE ARE SO EXCITED! Papa Brian is the only one who has seen it! This is going to be fun!
We're finally back! Its been a long road to get here. We've been busy MOVING HEADQUARTERS, acting in plays, writing music, making movies, and traveling the world, (okay, Sleepy Hannah is the only one traveling) but we are FINALLY back in the studio/living room!
Hogwarts, Sleepy Hannah, and Jeremy are BANNED from the comments, but we have a few other subscribers that are watching along with us. Please mark spoiler comments with a SPOILERS tag.
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5:04 - Jeremy: "No previously?" Little knowing this whole episode is "previously"...
"The devil betrayed me. He took my body." Man in Black to Ricardus.
Not sure you ever read these 2 years later, but "Just like Christmas Lights!" is the best insert ever!
thank you very much for listening to the fans and inserting the fragment with crying Jack!! :)
I really felt bad for MiB in this episode, I mean everything he was doing in that time doesn't look like he is just "pure evil" or something like that. You can understand his reasons etc.
Pure evil doesn't exist. Evil is always born. And everything har influence. If evil could be pure, we would all be.
I am totally team Across the Sea. I get how divisive this one is, but I really feel it's totally enough. Don't absolutely care about HOW that light works, or who created it or how it turns someone into a black smoke. I know it might be frustrating for some, though.
I get the frustration with vague answers too but what did people honestly expect? That they would explain you in scientific detail how all that stuff actually worked, that's impossible. Or give you very specific answers to like the meaning of life and death or something. I always felt that despite being curious myself those details like how the light wheel worked etc didnt really matter for the story they wanted to tell. They were just interpretations of larger themes to guide the story. I actually wished they would explain even less things that they did and more people would ve liked the ending if they had presented some stuff a little differently. I guess you could say they did try to explain some of the supernatural stuff in a scientific way with Daniel though.
@@azsugar8361 yes, that is how I see things too. It bugs me that the bad reviews Lost gets are mostly based on either the alleged lack of explanations or (sigh) "they were dead the whole time".
@@azsugar8361 I think it comes down to expectations. The show is kind of framed like a science fiction show (what with the time travel and Dharma Initiative), but I think it's really a fantasy. The miracle of John being able to walk early kind of establishes that. This episode suffers if you're looking at it as a science fiction show, but it's fantastic lore if you're looking at it as a fantasy show. It also suffers as to where in the season it's placed...but I have a lot of issues as to how this season is structured. I think if this was earlier in the season, or split up as flashbacks throughout the season (while cutting some of the flash-sideways) it wouldn't be received as poorly.
@@azsugar8361 I think the point of this episode was to act as symbolism for real life. Which Lost did often anyway. There are just some things in the world and universe we will never know the answers to, and thats okay. But we know enough to go on...
@@rexxraul You nailed it about sci-fi/fantasy! Also, as much as Lost is my favorite show, I also think Season 6 is far from perfect, maybe one of my least favorite seasons if I had to rank them. On the other hand, I just don't know what exactly I would change, because the ending is SO DAMN emotional that it gets me thinking what if they did Season 6 differently? Would the ending be that touching?
It's only after rewatching through this reaction that it really hit me that, you know how this show, if you really break it down, is a bunch of people working through their daddy/mommy issues? It's funny that Jacob himself is not immune to that. This whole thing, the whole premise of Lost really, the "game" that Jacob plays with MIB to prove that men are good, he's doing it not just to prove his brother wrong, he's doing it to prove his mother wrong. His mother was the one who told them, as children, that men are innately bad. So if you think about, this entire show, all 6 seasons, the countless candidates that must have come before them, all this, is really just Jacob working through his mommy issues lol.
For an explanation as to what's going in this show this episode seemed to leave more questions than answers.
The sad thing is that you realize Jacob and his brother are so fucked up because of all the mental manipulations by their "mother". She basically set them against each other.
I actually really love this ep. And on subsequent watches it's so interesting. It actually really shows that neither Jacob Nor his brother were good or bad, they were human. Both pretty equally grey. The MIB (when he was alive) was a bit of a bad boy, but also generally just a curious person who just wanted to know things, interact with people, and see what was across the sea; Jacob was kinda of a mama's boy who didn't lie, but also had a jealous streak and anger management issues. Jacob, after everything with "Mother" and his brother goes down, spends hundreds of years learning and maturing and generally just seems to have become a good person who was just doing his best to protect the island, and yet even still was still kinda grey too in that he was also manipulative, although seemingly for a good purpose, and it seems like maybe he only brought people to the island who were already gonna die (maybe?) and to give them another chance while also trying to prove his brother wrong. And the MIB on the other hand, whether the Smoke Monster always existed and just took the memories and form of the MIB or if the SM was formed when Jacob sent him down into the heart, regardless it seems That entity spent the however many hundreds of years Not growing and changing (or unable to) and seems to just become more and more hateful and vindictive and set in his desire to leave. Idk, I've just always found it fascinating :)
I also thought the fact that Jacob brings all those people to the Island is kinda manipulative and shady and not something a good person would do. However, after he explains to the final four how all of them were flawed and if were honest, had terrible lives off island, maybe you could take it a step further and argue that Jacob brought them to the Island because if he hadn't, the Candidates had self destructive tendencies that would've led to their deaths anyway. Perhaps Locke's crippling depression would've caused him to eventually commit suicide, Jack's need to control things would've also ended up with suicide maybe, Sawyer and Kate would've ended up murdered, Jin and Sun continue towards and abusive relationship where the abuse might end up physical and something tragic happens, etc. So yeah, Jacob yanked them from their lives, but their lives would've ended up tragically, and even those that died on the Island at least had a "better" death than how they would've died had it not been for Jacob. One could argue that Jacob himself helped cause and influence events that caused a lot of these's peoples traumas and issues, but who knows, maybe Jacob could tell even if he didn't, life, karma, whatever, would've led them down a similar path anyway just because it's in their human nature.
That said, there was still a lot of people on the flights and shipwrecks to the island that weren't candidates that ended up dying too, so I guess that's objectively bad of Jacob no matter what lol. I guess that's why Ben said Hurley doesn't have to do it the way Jacob did, maybe there's a better way.
@@EACru2002 All good points :)
I don't care what people say, this episode is fantastic.
I love that both Jacob and the MIB are incredibly flawed individuals that were manipulated by "Mother".
I do understand the division on this episode, because it's all so vague and came so late into the final season and didn't feature any of the main cast.... but as someone that absolutely loves anything and everything to do with Smokey and the MIB, I think it was some multi faceted character development for him.
I knew Hogwarts wouldn't be a fan, even after hearing her be so open minded during season 5, but more surprised that the always critical Jeremy seemed to have done a Jack and realised that the show is more about the characters, in fact, I was very surprised he figured a lot of this episode out early on.... like the caves and the Knife.
The End is gonna be an interesting watch, one that will probably anger me if I hear any negativity haha.
Thank you for adding the final scene! No matter how many times I watch it I always get choked up.. #bless
The MIB I think was told he couldn't leave the island initially because she was going to use mib as her replacement. She needed him to stay because she saw he could handle being the protector of the island better than jacob could. When she realized she couldn't get him to stay she tried to keep him from going but knew she would have to give her job to Jacob instead after she decimated his village... he would never give up. By the time he killed mother Jacob had already taken the job and was angry and threw mib down the hole which turned him evil and into the smoke monster... him being a monster officially made it so that he can't go into the world to spread the evil.
The key to understanding this episode is remembering how electromagnetism interacts with people. In small doses it heals people (see: Locke, Rose, Naomi, Sawyer, and more all being healed while on the island), but in large doses it kills them (see: the guy who got fried in Widmore's electromagnetic generator in 6x11). However, it is also able to essentially "download" the memories of those nearby (see: Eko's memories flashing inside the monster in 2x10, Ben's memories in the monster in 5x12, Richard's memories in 6x09, even Boone's memories of "Theresa falls up the stairs, Theresa falls down the stairs" being uploaded into Locke's dream in 1x19). We can correctly assume that the light in the cave is made up of electromagnetism (because Widmore zapped Desmond with electromagnetism to make sure he could do something probably related to this cave, and electromagnetism's ability to heal, kill, and preserve and recall consciousness fits the "life, death, rebirth" description the Mother gave it). Especially since we know there is a large pocket of electromagnetism on the island (see: 5x06 when Eloise says the island's giant pocket of electromagnetism is how DHARMA found the island with the Lamp Post station).
So because we have been told that Jacob and the Man In Black aren't able to kill each other (see: this episode and all the episodes where the MIB was trying to convince Ben to kill Jacob instead of the MIB just doing it himself), and the MIB claims that Jacob stole his body, the simplest explanation that fits all of the data is that when the MIB was thrown into the island's pocket of electromagnetism, the radiation from the pocket killed him but preserved his consciousness, fusing it with that pocket of electromagnetism. That's how he is still "alive" as the smoke monster despite his body being dead. And since he was ripped from his body and instantly given the powers of the pocket of electromagnetism (i.e., healing, bending light (see 3x17 and 4x02), manipulating magnetic fields (see: this episode, every episode where a compass spins the way it's not supposed to, 6x07 when the MIB removed Ben's metal shackle without touching it, etc.), and interfacing with people's consciousnesses) he reflexively created a makeshift body for himself, either bending the light around himself until it looked like a cloud of black smoke or pulling magnetic fillings from within the cave to form a body (suspended iron fillings look a TON like black smoke clouds).
When he was a child, it wouldn't have mattered if he left the island. The Mother was just lonely and selfish and was afraid of losing him, especially since she wanted him to be the protector after she died. But now that he's an adult and fused to the source of electromagnetism which, according to 5x06 is connected to every other pocket of electromagnetism in the world, and according to this episode is found inside every person in the world, leaving the island would cause him to remove the pocket of electromagnetism from the island, disrupting it and causing it to extinguish, which would also cause it to go out everywhere else in the world, leading to global ecological disaster at best and mass extinction/corruption at worst.
As for the MIB's name, the writers were big fans of The Dark Tower, which includes a character called The Man in Black as one of its main antagonists. So they wanted this character to be named The Man in Black as a nod to that series and to underline the light vs. dark theme of the show. Obviously no one is going to name their baby "The Man in Black", so the writers just chose to avoid giving him a name. However, he did have a name in the casting call, Samuel (though those are often full of fake or place-holder names), and the writers released a (non-canon) video of Jacob and the MIB talking and revealing the MIB's true name at Comic-Con 2011: ruclips.net/video/Fg1qikMstEA/видео.html
Pierre describes the source of light at the orchid as a wormhole caused by the electromagnetism. The same sort of setup that Widmore created for Desmond.
@@Maalstrom Yeah, the electromagnetism at the Orchid combined with the particular geological structure of that area creates a kind of Casimir effect which produces negatively charged exotic matter, which is able to be manipulated to stabilize wormholes in spacetime, allowing for teleportation and time travel. Not exactly the same setup as what Widmore created for Desmond since that setup didn't have anything to do with exotic matter or wormholes, but definitely in the same family of electromagnetic activity.
It always annoys me when people can't see both Jacob and the MIB point of view.
Both of their behaviors makes sense to me
Allen Payne True, i also get annoyed when people don't know the difference between 'there' and 'their'
@@Pierre-dz3ut omg it was an accident 🙄 and this is RUclips not the fucking spelling bee
Same
One more week and they'll be done "LOST", by next Friday !!!! 🌴🛬📼🌄📼🛫🌴
Brian, if it's at all possible { I know it's tons of extra work } could you please PLEASE make the two part finale on Friday two parts each so we can enjoy your guys reaction to all the amazing scenes over four different reactions ? Thanks so much in advance.
*40 minutes is much better then 20 minutes
Two part finale? You must have the Hulu version that cut some scenes out to get down to 2 hours. The original version is a single uncut episode that's about 2 and a half hours.
@@liquidsnake321 Hulu also has the original uncut finale, which is 1 hour, 43 minutes, including that crucial opening montage. :)
I think there's something interesting in the idea, that MIB, who is raised mostly with humans, sees them the same way the person he saw as his mom does and even has a similar destructive way of going about things. But Jacob who was raised with her, has a different view and a different approach, than her.
As for why Jacob killed MIB, I think that was simply him having a flawed human moment of lashing out in revenge, not based on thinking him evil or whathaveyou, but he was angry and got his brother killed. Thougn I don't think that was his intention. He says something about him wanting to leave this place.
So, a messiah says one thing and one thing only. Hundreds of years later, there are a thousands denominations following the same thing. Jesus Christ, no pun intended! Just listening the Hogwarts team talk about the episode gives some perspective of perspectives, doesn't it?
Except Jesus Christ said much more than one thing? He thought many different lessons across years. The same goes for Muhammad.
Really hope you guys can upload the FULL reaction to the finale.
Or make it a one time free thing to watch on Patreon for everyone, or google drive, etc.
That breaks fair use. Get over yourself. You aren't worth breaking the law and stealing content.
@@c_f0rce Except they DID, in fact, upload the full reactions to Vimeo.
And many other reactors upload full uncut reactions to their Patreons.
I think Jacob's brother isn't allow to leave the island because he was the original candidate, and as a candidate he can't leave the island... when Jacob became the guard of the island he made his own rules and that's why he leaves the island anytime he wants, and the black smoke can't because he's not his brother anymore.
Its interesting to see how divisive this episode is again years later with the Normies and Hogwarts reactions. Watching your reactions to this compared to the previous episode makes me even more curious to see how you feel about the finale and finally discussing everything without fear of spoilers.
Watching it live, felt long and boring. I remember thinking it was almost over at one point, then looked at the clock... it was only 20 minutes in.
@Millennial Falcon I can pay plenty of attention. Still couldn't care less about this episode. It didn't need a full episode to explain this.
10:44 One thing, that makes this episode so much fun to me is seeing how surprisingly naive Jacob actually used to be.
You have two words to explain Jacob.
"Yikes , Homie!!!"
Brian initially saying he didn’t know what the black light was had me wondering if he doesn’t know about the secret disc in the lid of the box set. Since he was joking though I’m assuming he does and just didn’t want to show the others just yet.
I don't think he actually found it yet :D
I wish we could start over again. Really going to mish this series. The team has been at peak performance with the questions and discussion lately. It makes me sad that I won't have these to look forward to every Monday and Friday. That being said I am very appreciative of everyone and especially Papa Brian for making this a reality. Whatever happens, it's been one hell of a ride man.
I love the buildup this season and reveal in this episode of Jacob actually being kind of a disaster who's just making it up as he goes. I love a flawed God-figure.
I fucking love you guys. You actually made me appreciate this episode a little more with the great discussion afterwards :) The blind leading the blind and the lack of objective truths are such great talking points and takeaways from this episode
I think at a certain point it’s ok to answer some questions such as the man in black’s name. The advantage these people have that fans at the time of the finale release didn’t is that you can answer some of the lesser questions that don’t matter and won’t come up again so they can get some gratification before the rather confusing and “up to interpretation” ending
But what is the point of answering the MiB's name? You gain literally nothing. Would it be Paul or Peter - nothing would change. Not the story, not your understanding of it. Nothing.
kuhpunkt well there is no answer but the others seem to be getting more and more angry at the lack of answers to questions they’ll never get an answer to. All I’m saying is he answer the ones now that the show never will so the finale can be a little more enjoyable. Right now it seems like they’re hoping to get everything answered at the end and if that’s the case they’re all gonna be sorely upset bc it’s more of a farewell to the characters
In my opinion the smoke monster or darkness was always there when Jacob killed his brother and by accident also in my opinion he gave it form to act on the Island and it took his brother's form to punish Jacob but Jacob knew. The darkness is still trapped but now has mean's to effect it's escape and that included killing Jacob not because he is his brother but because he is the guardian of the Island.
Hogwarts I always thought that the mother was both the smoke monster and the protector of island. The way she destroyed that village you can't help but theorize she was in fact a smoke monster. Add to the fact that the MIB killed her in the same way that Sayid attempted to kill MIB. The difference is that MIB stabbed her before she could say one word. The Black Smoke Monster probably became more malevolent when Jacob pushed his brother down that cave therefore the Black Smoke attached itself to his spirit and the electromagnetic energy from the Heart Of The Island therefore becoming the darkness and evil that got out that the candidates have to defeat. One more thing out of topic I loved that score for the "The Heart Of The Island" scene very mystical score. 😉
Same. She was both. And Jacob and his brother were split into both jobs.
I've always thought this too :)
I know the remaining episodes are already filmed but I really hope Brian takes a little time before What They Died For to put Across the Sea into context with regards to how and why the writers decided to make it. The whole "every question I ask will simply lead to another question" being the writers basically, that they felt cornered/forced into dumping an exposition episode for those who were just wanting answers etc. Also remind Hogwarts and Co. to think back over what MiB has said about wanting to go home. And ask them are they not absolutely against MiB after what he did to Sun, Jin and Sayid? Even if you can understand his frustration of wanting to leave the island, he deserves everything that's coming to him, he crossed the line.
I've always like this episode more than most, mainly just to delve into the past of the island and we get to see Mark Pellegrino, Titus Welliver and Allison Janney. But I completely understand how it's problematic.
I had a feeling they wouldn't care much for this ep, it's quite a tough pill to swallow on first viewing. Anyway I am just hoping so much that they love the ending as I want a really emotional and accepting reaction to look back from this amazing reaction channel. I think Hogwarts will and Jeremy seems really open and accepting more than he was at the end of season 5 now that it's focusing mostly on the characters we've grown to care about. I am not sure about Sleepy Hannah, considering how Man of Science she is. But even she was a bit broken by The Candidate so hopefully the finale will get her, too. Can't wait for the last couple of reaction vids! And Papa Brian, if you see this, I think I speak for everyone here by saying PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE upload The End reaction on the same day, please don't split it across a Monday-Friday!
What if the reason babies on the island were so problematic was because someone of a higher power either Jacob or the black smoke didn’t want the same fate as they were born into
It explains it in The New Man in Charge. The electromagnetic levels on the island make it difficult to conceive and then give birth. Though you can come from somewhere else and then give birth on island. As we see with Claudia and Clair.
@@TECfan1 And Rousseau ;D
@@kuhpunkt Yup!
It always shocks me that fans of the show don't understand that the pregnancy issues on Island didn't start until after The Incident.
Ethan was conceived and born on the island during the 70s....
The Incident happens, and pregnancy on the Island takes a dark turn...
Th.El.Co._1 oh that’s right so it’s because of the incident. Makes sense lol even after I’m 5th watch of the series 😭
I loved the change in Widmore. I think he realized all the money in the world, or his pride, was nothing compared that damn thing being free to leave.
The show and the characters are complex by design though and I think Charles was always fundamentally decent, albeit a cocky and impulsive dipshit! Widmore (sincerely) asks Eloise about Desmond's wellbeing in Season 5, when he's in the hospital. He cares for Penny, he cares for Desmond but he has a tough facade, a bravado as he tries to serve this special place. It's another case of the blind leading the blind, working from recycled information from previous leaders and inhabitants.
He started getting nightmares after Alex was killed. Either Jacob or the Island needed him back.
I don't think there even really was a change. He's always wanted to protect the island, and always had the goal of making sure the smoke didn't leave, only his methods for doing so were more extreme that most and he was a capitalist. He's like a dictator trying to run a government.
Boy, I'm really going to miss watching these reactions on Mondays and Fridays. It's been so fun! I hope you all do another one soon. Might I suggest 'Dark' on Netflix??
Wooooo! Been waiting for this one!!!
Brian 22:47 ... how most of us are raised. And some of us only "unlearn" it late in life. Better late than never huh.
I presume all filming has been completed by our Fab Four by now, but I will still mark this comment as having SPOILERS. First, this is the best theory I have ever considered regarding the MIB, Fake Mother and ultimately Jack. I hope you all enjoy it, and no...I didn't write it. I just really like the theory. lostanswers.tumblr.com/search/smoke+mother ALSO, here is a clip with Damon L where he explains why "Across The Sea" was one of his least favorite episodes. Again, some spoilers...so unless all filming has been completed, avoid watching. ruclips.net/video/B5chCMRsEVo/видео.html
I think there is a distinction between MiB and the evil that is the black smoke. Looks to me that the Black smoke is some kind of evil, trapped under the authority and control of the protector, that resides inside the cave, and can manifest himself as dead people (Jacob's real mother, in the scene with the MiB). This control is what she used to destroy the other humans with the smoke while MiB was asleep. When Jacob throws him inside the cave, the evil uses his boy, or something like that, to get out of Mother's control, and took his form. He stuck as Locke now because Locke was a candidate, but MiB wasn't anymore.
We don't know if it is evil. Jacob was just told the black smoke is evil so he went with it. Kind of like religion in some divisions. Others talk about how the black smoke is just a security system like Rousou(sp?). We really don't know I think. As they said, the rules are made up and we don't know what is what. That is why the MiB wanted to leave the island and ask questions because he was more science-y whereas Jacob was more about listening and faith. Back to the whole Science vs. Faith theme we see in the show.
That is what makes the best villains in movies. People with good intentions but are just too tired or impatient and try to achieve those intentions in selfish/hurtful ways(at the expense of others). MiB was just a damaged guy and his concerns were valid and true-- he just became a bad person when he decided to achieve his goals in the way he did.
In retrospect, Jacob was a nice guy trying to maintain the peace. He wasn't as smart as MiB but was also as damaged. He had a better view of humanity-- as we see later in the show-- spoilers ahead: he never plucked anyone off from their perfect lives. They were all flawed and needed the island as much as the island needed them. For as good Jacob was, he was still very human in his black-and-white way of looking at life-- something that MiB kept prodding him on since MiB always viewed things in the gray(maybe also a bit too gray).
My perspective, at the time, was that the island is the cork for evil, hell, etc. and when Jacob threw MIB into it, he essentially allowed that evil, to take hold of MIB and use him as a way to escape. So, the theory was that they weren't 2 separate people, but one being used by the other.
Brian please tell Sleepy Hannah that I completely agree with her regarding the black smoke. I think that the smoke is an entity of it's own and only mimics the people that died by reading their thoughts and memories, including Jacobs brother. It manipulates everyone including Jacob, because it wants to leave and spread the "infection". The fact that Jacob's brother wanted that also, for me, is coincidental... it's always been this entity and not Jacob's brother. As for the distruction of the well, maybe Mother summoned the monster like Ben did in season 4. Anyway, those are my thoughts about this episode.
But then why can't it kill Jacob?
Ikr
@@kuhpunkt Maybe because it's a rule of the Island, to not be able to kill it's protector. Jacob is it's protector but it's the Island that "decides" in the end. At least that is my theory.
@@artemis2569 But the episode established that Mother made it so. Why come up with another reason?
@@kuhpunkt Mother made it so with Jacob and his brother not the entity and the protector. I didn't come up with anything I just don't buy it that the smoke is Mib. It mimics the MIB but it's not him.
This episode reminds me of "The Lost Sister" episode of Stranger Things, Season 2. Both episodes were standalone episodes placed late in the season, and both episodes were very polarizing to viewers.
This episode, while I do personally enjoy it and it’s good plot and background to know going into the finale, its main problem I think is that you can’t tell WHO exactly it is trying to please...
What I mean is that - on one level - it feels like it was designed as the official “answers” episode for all the die-hard answer junkies wanting to know a lot of the island lore - something which fans of the characters would benefit from knowing but ultimately could perhaps live without.
And on another level - the way that Lindelof writes is character and theme focused with a heavy stylistic leaning toward ambiguity and the chance for viewers to have many interpretations of events just like you would in a piece of literary fiction like a novel.
So while trying to please the die-hard answer fans, it goes about doing so in a stylistic manner which isn’t truly in keeping with what those die-hard fans would really want. It tries to give them at least half of what they’d want but really that would never satisfy them.
I respect Lindelof and Cuse for following their own compass as storytellers and I too myself prefer the show not trying to explain every detail, and that part of the art of the episode is ambiguity - part of the show’s central message is for us to ponder the meaning of life, to ponder whether knowledge of our purpose is greater than knowledge of how we can be better human beings etc... truly I get all that and really love it.
But I definitely can see the flaws for what they are, and they are not so much a fault of the writers in how this episode comes together - it’s more the result of little teeny flaws slowly building over the course of the series so that a bit like Jenga.. the small flaws here were the straw that broke the camels back, so that one little new piece in this episode just sends the whole thing tumbling down (for some... not me) and so for many viewers it was the final one which really broke their faith in the entire series.
At the end of the day, the show was always touted as a MYSTERY, SCI-FI show in all its marketing etc. so anyone who just takes the show in that way at face value would no doubt be pissed at the general vagueness and lack of real answers pay-off.
The show did however have six seasons worth of material and time enough though for people to realise that the show wasn’t quite so GENRE as those two labels would have us believe for while it had those elements it was always more a piece of literary fiction like a great classic novel and not just a pulpy Sci-fi adventure.
To classify LOST it’s probably:
MYSTERY, DRAMA, SCI-FI, FANTASY, ADVENTURE
MYSTERY is the why we start the series, the why of how we get hooked into each episode and season and keeps us watching, but the DRAMA, the journey of the characters and the human themes is what it’s about and why we get so invested and how we relate to it, then the SCI FI elements are what allow the FANTASY & ADVENTURE elements to be incorporated in what at first appears to be a grounded and believable manner so that the MYSTERY can feel solvable and not too genre for a mainstream audience. But ultimately, the mythology of the show was always going to be more SCIENCE-FANTASY, it was always exploring the classic “good vs evil” theme at its heart, it just got heavily invested along the way in its middle seasons in exploring every other great human philosophical debate that has ever existed throughout history.
19:27 "It isn't not good nor bad. Neither is it. At all. But it's not. And it is!"
Even the writers couldn't describe it better, good job Jeremy :D
Least favorite episode but still giving you guys the LIKE and the View. Cheers!
WOOOOOO! Early to the party boys, let's go! Gonna be sad when this is over.
its the story of Romulus and Remus
@@busimagen I might be mixing up mu mythology but i believe that first they were saved by a river god before they got to the wolf.
1:02 I think for a SECOND I PRAYED that these pants do NOT belong to Papa Brian 😁😜
24:25 - haha - I was going to ask if you've ever played the Senet game included in The Box. I never have. Anyone out there in Lost land played the game?
31:12 reminds me of the RUclips video with those kids who edited the ending of Toy Story 3 and tricked their family into thinking it ends with all the toys dying in the incinerator in the landfill lol.
i still love all the flash back episodes but its like jumping into a disney plot line XD
It's a Disney show.
5:30 seriously how can she be this good at predicting things
I watched seasons 1-4 when they aired. For some reason that I don't remember, I didn't keep watching. By the time the finale rolled around I had definitely heard that a lot of people were upset with the ending. Fast forward 10 years, I decide to rewatch seasons 1-4 and finally get to 5 and 6. The whole time I'm watching these episode I had never seen before I'm like... when does it get bad? Then I got to this episode and I'm thinking.. don't do this to me, Lost! I just had to suffer through GoT!
But once I watched the finale, I thoroughly enjoyed it. This episode is just weird.
Every time I watch the finale, I love it even more. I think it takes some time to process.
@@d3l3tes00n I think that's the case with everyone. Even those of us that mostly "got it" during our first viewings when Christian explains everything, I think your first time watching, your brain is still processing everything and it's still "alert" for any new piece of information that might come. Because of that, you don't really give your "heart" enough priority to just feel everything that's happening. So even as someone who didn't hate the ending, my experience I think was similar to a lot of people in that when the last shot went out, I was thinking more than feeling. I could intuitively feel that it was a good ending but instead of really living through it, it was a more detached, "Huh, yeah, that was good I guess," which is kinda exactly how Jeremy and Hannah were. I mean the fact that even Hannah wasn't really crying up a storm, for someone as emotional as her, kinda reinforces this point. Because she was still "processing" it rather than feeling it.
But yeah, when I watched it a second time and knew exactly what the Flash Sideways were and could just enjoy what I'm watching in front of me for what it is, that's when it really hit me. The full circle of Jack's story. Of everyone's story in the Church at the end. And when Vincent comes out of the woods to lay down next to Jack. It's the second time through that you really realize how great an ending it is.
32:55 about the egyptian thing.. It is clear to me that, long before Jacob and MiB, something similar happened to the egyptian/sumerian inhabitants. Someone fell into the light and became the smoke monster (which is clearly a result of the big amount of energy/antimatter interacting with a biological body) and they figured out all this system of tunels, energy pockets, [SPOILER] the stone cork... (maybe a solution to the consequences of the creation of that first monster?) in order to control the energy and avoid catastrophic incidents. Consequently, this knowledge that no one should ever go down the cave passed through generations until reaching Mother, and then Jacob who, unfortunately, used it against his brother.
I would agree with you to some extent but the timeline doesn't match. I believe the events you're describing happened AFTER Mother died but before the events of Richard's flashbacks. Nowone should ever go down that cave. That was so until Desmond. Remember those rules don't apply to Desmond. 😁
I'm seconding TJ's comment. The writers specifically called out the fact that the light coming out of the cave is much brighter during Across the Sea than during The End, which would imply that something was done to the cave to after Across the Sea that caused this permanent dimming. And since the carving in the Temple is supposedly the Egyptians worshiping the smoke monster, it would make more sense that they came to the island after the MIB had been transformed and did all of their construction work at some point thereafter.
@@TJMalana then who built the statue? It was already there when Jacon and MiB lived on the island. PLUS, their mother (both of their mothers) seemed to be roman/greek, and in all those ancient structures we can see egyptian AND SUMERIAN writings, which belong waaaay before people spoke latin (Mother speaks latin when she passes her powers to Jacob). So no, it does not make sense that all this was built after the creation of MiB's smoke monster.
@@Volvagia0slayer Mother speaks latin, and the stone cork presents SUMERIAN carvings. Sumerian was long gone when latin appeared
@@DavidArriola The stone cork presents both Sumerian carvings and Egyptian hieroglyphs. There are four visible lines on the cork. Half are Egyptian hieroglyphs and have are cuneiform.
The end is a hoe down with the help of Laura Hall.
Talking about "The Rules"...(I left a similar comment in an earlier reaction)...way back in the pilot episode when the stewardess gave Jack the two mini bottles of alcohol Jack said "This of course breaks some critical FAA regulations?" So, the writers were thinking about "rules" (and breaking them) from the beginning.
But not those rules, lol.
Yep. A common theory brought up by fans is whether or not the "rules" are enforced by magical law, or are just given and then believed by the characters, even if they are only true by word.
No nicknames in this episode from Sawyer.
This episode is set in the earliest time of the series, reaching back about two millenia, and has the largest passage of time between scenes.
Hahaha!
I've seen you around, you know. You always comment about Sawyer's nicknames, or say that there aren't any.
But for this particular episode, that felt especially funny.
Dan Dare
Obi-wan kenobi (new reactor in town)
@@laccountant1114 👍 👍
This episode is so awesome. I'm so glad the writers did not appeal to the lowest common denominators. How this episode allows your imagination to run wild is how art is created.
Totally agree. What Jocob’s mother says is absolutely right about how every answer will lead to more questions.
Everything came form somewhere, you can’t just keep going back further and further looking for answers to more questions. There are some things that you just will never know.
I don’t get this episode was so confusing for some people. I felt like it gave us SO many answers.
Also surprised that Hogwarts thinks that Jacob sucks now. If anything this episode makes it much easier to sympathize with both of them.
@Martin Latour You have no creative independent thought. You are a loser through and through. Dont worry, most people need to be losers, its the nature of the world.
Yup. I will always say the most fun part of Lost is that it doesn't "spoon feed" its fans. It gives us fragments and then from there we can discuss and theorize.
O god, you're already at ep 15, I guess it's time for some emergency full day LOST watching in my home. I never finished the last season lol
Has it been decided what the next show y'all watch will be? Do I have to get ready recommendations or polls or..?
The placement of this episode in season six is weird.
Yeah, and I think Papa Brian asking "what do you want to see this episode?" was trolling of the sneakiest kind. LOL.
I think it makes sense. The writers wanted to give the audience a breather after the emotional gut punch of losing 3-4 main characters, and they wanted to finally provide context for the MIB's actions once the audience was primed to unconditionally hate him.
I feel it was only because of the watercooler following of the show. Most people ive spoken to who binge watch this show now don't feel how we did at the time.
I have so many comments to post, but it's kind of pointless on a two year old reaction, and nobody would read it. I hope these guys went out and explored the YT channel, LOST EXPLAINED.
Can't believe our gang didn't figure out that "Samuel" became the Smoke Monster because of the electromagnetic energy deep beneath the lighted cave, becoming a super villain of sorts like others in the comic / Sci-Fi TV show world before him.
*like how Desmond got his traveling through time powers
@Martin Latour The same way a radio active spider turned Peter Parker in Spiderman | Gamma Rays turned Bruce Banner into The Incredible Hulk | A particle accelerator explosion turned Barry Allen into The Flash I guess.
@Martin Latour People were magically healed by episode 4. Jack followed his dead father in episode 5. Walt was implied to have superpowers by episode 14. It was supernatural early on.
@Martin Latour Wat? lol
Issac of Aluru gained powers by being around a light source too. Achara must have visited one as well.
@Martin Latour No, I can read just fine :)
A security system for the island...
favourite fan theory I’ve seen, like they were discussing at the end, is that jacob’s brother/MIB and the Smoke Monster are 2 separate things. Smoke monster appeared to MIB in the form of his real mother, and manipulated him into fighting Jacob. So when Jacob killed his brother in that smoke monster then took his form and continued to manipulate Jacob through the years. Both Jacob’s mother’s and Brother’s bodies were on the island, so the smoke monster could take their forms. Spoilers for finale beyond this point,
It also doesn’t make sense that pushing him down the hole turned him into a smoke monster, cause Jack and Desmond both go down there and they don’t become smoke monsters?
That is a very interesting point. Makes sense but before this incident, the Smoke Monster was not their "fake" mother? How could she be able to destroy the well and kill all the other men on the island if not?
Dans23 no I think the fake mother was really her own person, and was the protector before Jacob, but... if the smoke monster didn’t exist until Jacob created it, then what was she protecting it from?? I think the real mother that appeared to young MIB was the smoke monster.
@@gryotharian So do you think the fake mother was able to destroy the well and kill all those men only by herself? I agree with the theory with the real mother being the smoke monster but it also could be posible that MiB had the same power as Hugo and could talk to the dead.
On the other hand, what bugs me is Ben's mother as she appeared on the Island when Ben was a child because that couldn't have been possible unless her body was brought to the Island..
@@dans2376 Well actually, now that i think about it, richard's wife's body was never on the island and we know for a fact the smoke monster took her form...
@@gryotharian we also know that his wife's ghost was also there. Meaning that Ben's mothers ghost could have been there too, inside the fence.
Maybe "Old Mother" really wanted MIB to be the protector of the island, cause he was her favorite. That's why she told him he wasn't allowed to leave. Not that there was an actual impediment.
Sleepy Hannah should have joined us when we watched Lost at the prime of the show with all the theories and speculations,
is the lockdown going to affect you guys for the next 3 episodes?
They have finished all the episodes, it's just a matter of whether they can upload it or not.
Hannahs and jeremy, if you're reading because probably you already finished the show, Man In Black has a name!
I wanted you guys to react to this and Entertainment Weekly of the time, but I think Brian never saw the links I've posted..
MIB name (lol): ruclips.net/video/Fg1qikMstEA/видео.html
Look at the size of those babies! It's no wonder she screamed! #ouch
Calm before the storm.
13:33 Cedar can see us!
Why is Gamora? - Drax
This is not directed at Hogwarts, Brian, Hannah or Jeremy... it's to us, those of us who have seen this show in it's entirety. Every answer will just bring more questions... this episode is proof that as much as people scream and want answers, they really don't. They want THEIR answers. Damon and Carlton knew the fans would be divided over any and every question they answered. Which is why they left some things vague. The questions they did answer were met with complaining and upset fans who didn't like the answers they were presented with. If we all just think about that, we can perhaps see this episode (and many others, including "The End") a little bit differently. Just because something wasn't answered in a way that validated our own thoughts about a question or a theory, doesn't make it bad. Now that doesn't mean you have to like or agree with the direction Damon/Carlton took it... but realize that your opinion is simply that. Your opinion. And for every person that hated this episode or the end, there is someone else who loved it. "I don't like it so it sucked"... as if we are each the end-all, be-all.
Damn that makes things way to easy.
There has to be a beginning. Its like debating religion. Where do the humans come from, where the earth, the big bang, and so on. We humans can not come to an answer for that so the only sense making solution is an all mighty god. Sense making depending on where you stand.
We already have those questions we can't answer in real life and its still annoying the crap out of mankind.
Lost was, or a big part of it, a mystery show and it is not criminal to want to know the purpose or the initial trigger of this chain of events.
Sure I might end up being like "thats stupid" but not giving me one, so I can't end up being satisfied or have negative opinion about it, is worse.
@@faroreacts5107 You missed the entire point here, while you were explaining the problem yourself.
@@faroreacts5107 There were probably 10, 20, 30 etc different island protectors before Mother. The show is not about delving into every Protector of the island. It's about the story of these people during this very specific moment in time on the island... and it all started because of this episode.
@@faroreacts5107 I would never say the questions of existence "annoy" humanity. They are the primary source of our curiosity, or rather our curiosity is the source of the questions. To say that it' s a nuisance not to have things answered is to completely overlook almost every major advancement of our species. As much as we hate to admit it, we are thrilled by uncertainty. Excited by the unknown. That's why Lost, despite it's flaws, revolutionized modern television. The ancient Greeks knew this fact: We are endlessly captivated by things that are out of reach and unexplained. The golden era of human storytelling and drama happened before science, because science answered many of the questions which captivated us. Lightning, the cosmic drama of immortal gods clashing in the heavens, suddenly becomes the exchange of electrons in cloud particles. The changing seasons, once thought to be tied to the emotions of Goddesses at the loss of their daughter, is now known to be caused by solar orbits. The scientific explainations are fascinating in their own right, but certainly much harder to turn into compelling human dramas. The Greeks understood this, and it's why their plays are so epic and captivating years later. After Lost, modern television changed completely, invoking subtleties of storytelling and developing a mythology in a way that captivated us again. Nowadays we have TV shows that far surpass Lost in quality, but only because they are standing on the shoulders of it's innovations. To suggest that the proposition of a question in Lost requires it's answer by the end is in fact a very modern idea based not in storytelling, but in empiricism. Both have their merits. But Empiricism does not belong in dramatic narratives.
@@thegreaterconundrum I agree with a lot what you said (:. Maybe it was German TV lost adds that conditioned me into expecting explanations and expositions on how the world of lost works.
However I still think that Lost started out as a mystery series which gave you the expectation of it being revealed later on its own.
It turned into Fantasy like past season 4.
In another comment someone suggested why I am not asking where the jedis come from. While I am not into Star Wars but into Lost I am pretty sure Star wars ever acted much like it would explain that to us
2:40 🤐
Oh, also, something interesting to maybe discuss with the group at some point: They noticed when Mother told the MIB "thank you" when he killed her; something interesting to discuss is how maybe Mother Knew that he was gonna kill her and that she Wanted it, because she had lived for who KNOWS how long at point. Hundreds of years. A thousand maybe? And she was probably ready to die at that point given how she had gotten a successor (even if it maybe wasn't the one that she had wanted). Connected to this is that maybe Jacob Also was tired of being the Protector and was ready to go given that He now had His candidates and maybe that's why he said what he said to Ben, b/c he Knew that it would cause Ben to kill him.
Of course. Living by yourself for such a long time... that sucks. There was no live together or die alone for her.
What are you talking about? Jack isn't ALWAYS right. He wasn't right about the Swan Station...the button had to be pushed. He wasn't right about the hydrogen bomb either. And it makes absolutely no sense for Sawyer to trust Jack after his plan got Juliet killed.
Maybe they mean he feels the need to always be right or he THINKS he is always right.
The thing about the Smoke monster leaving the island...he doesn't want to leave the island for the same reasons Jacob's brother wanted to leave the island. Since the island is supposed to be a "cork" that keeps this ultimate evil from spreading all over the world, it would seem Smokey wants to leave the island for the same reason the island wants to keep it where it is. If you think abouy everything Smokey has done on the island, there's no way in hell you'd ever want it having access to everyone on the entire planet.
For those who watched this episode when it originally aired remember how divisive this one was? People actually really loved it or absolutely hated it ( I was a part of the former)...the other question I've had about it is so Jack goes down there and gets a full dose of the light...does this mean that Jack becomes the new Smokey? Does there always need to be a Smoke Monster to balance the scales,like there always has to be a protector for the Island? I like the idea but there is nothing concrete to back it up. Love the episode,great job as always guys!
Good point and maybe you found a error in the show, I think Jack died outside the cave. And it is possible the light is as random as it is mysterious(life, death, and in between). Meaning there is a chance you may go down there and you just die only.
Welcome to the Mystery Box crew. First off, I do love this show. These might be the best characters ever in a tv show. This show still gets me emotionally. I was a fan when it was airing. The big thing about this show, and most "genre" shows in general, was the fan base theorizing. And before this last season, there were many fans who predicted the end. AND many fans who guessed the writers didn't intend to give answers to the theories and plot questions they had developed. I do believe the writers did not intend for this "answer" episode at first, but decided to throw as much as they could all in this one episode to appease some of the fan base. But the line "For every question i answer you will have two more" was really a direct statement to the fans and showed a level of contempt towards them. This becomes a running issue with Bad Robot and fan bases after this show.
Which fan predicted that ending?!
@@kuhpunkt you would have to go back to social media outlets in 2009 to find which fans theorized the ending of this show. I don't want to spoil the ending in case on of the viewers sees this comment
@@mikesied You can just post a spoiler warning... but the only thing that people guessed was about the final scene with Jack on the island. That's not even a big deal.
@@mikesied Still waiting :)
@@kuhpunkt lol. sry dude. More important things were taking my energy away from this. I am going to guess you are a bit younger and did not watch this show as it came out. Anyhow, the big thing about this show was a rabid fan base, and so much theory crafting. There were several fans that predicted they were dead and the flash sideways was purgatory. I am not exactly sure what else you would be waiting for. Like I said above, you would have to dig up social media back then somehow...
Omg Omg Omg Omg!!!!
Yeah, I’ll admit, they really should have explained Smokey’s origin a lot better
If I was rewriting the final season, the golden cave would actually be the island volcano teased way back in "The Man Behind the Curtain". Jacob would throw his brother into the boiling magma thinking it would kill him. What happens when you incinerate an immortal body? Immortal smoke. We could see him slowly reforming himself from smoke form like Dr. Manhattan from Watchmen.
NICK MAUDLIN omg that's perfect, I'm pretending that's what happened anyway
@@nickwittednonpareil aha.... their intention WAS for the Volcano to be a huge component in the final episode, but budget restraints kept them from achieving the shots they wanted....
@@kevrutherford77 I heard about that in a podcast. If they went through with that I had a feeling it would have also tied with Ben's backstory with Anne as well as the Dharma history too more. The Dharma Initiative was probably the worse thing to happen to that Island because as Mother said "they come they fight they destroy"
@@kevrutherford77 which also explains the ash being a barrier for Smokey...
I always thought this episode was sort of a middle finger to the people asking endless questions about components of the show that don’t really matter.
I’m fine with the events themselves, but I honestly don’t think it needed a whole episode. Maybe just some flashbacks from MiB’s perspective peppered throughout a couple eps. Meh, I could take it or leave it.
yes. it def was a middle finger to the fans. however the judgement that it "doesnt matter" is yours. half of the fans thought it did matter. This might have started the disturbing trend of creatives trolling its own fans. ANd if we look at the trail of Bad Robot, it sure likes to divide its fan bases...
Sleepy hannah face tells she didn't like the episode or maybe the direction show goes !
If you have read Jung's Aion(I warn you not to), this story is insanely good.
I was at the store today, the sum of my groceries was 108. I laughed
18:09 I think I even just realized furthermore: Can´t we actually also assume that, whose ever form the smoke monster takes over, that that person´s dead body has to be currently on the Island somewhere? Started thinking....
Well I guess, the black horse, that Kate sees couldn´t have been dead on Island, right? But that´s the only one I could think of right now and maybe that was just another black horse on the Island, that just coincidentally looked very similar.....
It doesn't have to. Richard's wife was far away.
@@kuhpunkt Ah yeah, you´re right! Shit.... For a moment, I thought.......
Also the altar boy......
Also Eko's thugs.
He doesn’t have a name because he was never given one. Allison Janey works in mysterious ways, like not coming up with a name. 🤷♂️
This episode and the richard episode shoulda been a dual or back to back..
Joe Jaroslaw no this episode should have never existed
Written by: Carlton Cuse &
Damon Lindelof
Directed by: Tucker Gates
Flash Gordon
I have always felt that the smoke monster existed long before the Man in Black went into the light cave. The "Mother" stated (at 12:30) that "life, death, rebirth" is in the cave. I suspect that the smoke monster is an entity guarded on the island that is the personification of "death" (in a good vs. evil context). The "Mother" and, later, Jacob are as much guarding the island from outside intruders as they are guarding the monster (this entity of death) from ever leaving. When the Man in Black died, the monster simply took his form (because it needed it) in order to escape. It took the Man in Black's "form" (replicating his appearance); however, many of the Man in Black's memories and desires remained. Those memories became a dominating personality part of the monster -- just as John Locke's memories and persona subsequently became a dominating part of the smoke monster too.
In other words, this is not the "Man in Black." It is a personification of "evil" that was trapped and escaped that cave and roams freely on the island. However, it now has the Man in Black's personality and memories ingrained in it when it chose to take his form. While it can take other forms (e.g., Christian Shepherd, Eko's brother, Walt, etc.), it primarily relies upon others' memories or fears about those individuals rather than becoming a true replica. It had encountered and scanned John Locke in the episode "Walkabout" (Season 1 Episode 4). It knew Locke's memories. When he finally settled upon becoming a host of Locke, Locke's memories were a part of it (just as Man in Black was when he fell through the cave).
Are you guys going to jump straight into another series or will there be a hiatus? I hope you will jump straight into something else, but if you are looking for suggestions, would love you guys to watch Breaking Bad If you have not seen it.
They already have seen BB.
kuhpunkt ow, have they, damn
aaaaaggh for me this episode creates so many plotholes.
if MiB becomes the black smoke right when Jacob throws him into the well, then who's taking the shape of their mother when she talks to young MiB telling him he belongs across the sea? at that point she can't be the real mother, because young MiB doesn't see dead people as Hurley does (it's not hinted at any point anyway... and if he does, it feels so convenient that for the sake of the plot and needing to create that feeling of wanting to leave the island, he suddenly can see dead people).
now, if the black smoke is actually the old lady, that would sort of explain the apparition of their mother, but then why would she suggest young MiB to leave the island? doesn't make sense since old lady is obviously against it. also, if the old lady is actually black smoke, what's the point of even having the theme of light vs dark with Jacob and his brother, if at the end of things, his brother isn't even the "dark" side of this yin-yang? it's just Jacob vs some old lady.
but, if the old lady isn't the black smoke at all, then how the hell did she manage to destroy MiB's camp and kill everyone by herself? I mean, what?
also, if MiB does end up becoming the black smoke (thus, evil incarnated) when being thrown into the well, why is the old lady telling him way before that that he CAN'T leave the island? at that point he hasn't become malevolence yet, so there's no reason to lock him up inside the island unless he has covid-19 or something, making the wine metaphor Jacob tells Richard completely insignificant.
so many confusing elements in an episode that, if anything, should've clarified a few things rather than making them even more ambiguous.
idk, it even seems like the writers knew that this particular episode was gonna create some trouble, so they decided to protect themselves under the line "every question I answer will lead to another question". anyone disagrees? I'm seriously open to debate here.
He saw his real mother as a ghost.
@@kuhpunkt but it's never hinted up until this point that he can see dead people, from the first time we meet him as Flock in season 5 'til now. it feels too convenient imo.
also, do you think old lady is the smoke monster? how could she destroy MiB's camp and kill everyone just by herself?
@@ginofactap Sawyer never could see dead people, yet he sees the ghost of child Jacob.
Regarding Mother being another smokey... maybe. The questions how else she could have killed everybody is legit, but on the other hand she could just get stabbed. Smokey couldn't get stabbed.
@@kuhpunkt I agree completely, but that's exactly my point: as soon as half of it makes sense, then half of it doesn't.
you are correct about bringing up the Sawyer fact as well, see that's what I'm conflicted by. Sawyer is not supposed to see dead people, yet he sees young Jacob. how is that even possible? the world-building aspect of the storytelling feels messy at times, it's like what's been established at one point suddenly changes at another for the sake of convenience.
@@ginofactap Yeah, that's one of the messy aspects of the show. The plot demanded it, so it happened that way.
For someone so good at "predicting" what's going to happen in the episode, Hannah has no idea what happened in the episode...
Very telling imo :D
Because its perhaps the most surreal episode of the show. And is very heavy on lore. It would be almost impossible for anyone to predict everything in this episode.
I don't hate this episode but I have a little problem with it lol...just seems a little too vague, cheesy/far fetched (like how did those people learn how to move the light and water with a wheel), and a bit rushed...we get this basically at the end of the show and only episode to cover it all...I mean they dont always need to answer everything but I kind of wish we knew how the "evil women" who raised Jacob and MIB came to be...at the very least that should have been explained later...it just feels a little like they gave up the plotline there...but eh...its not terrible just not on par with the rest of Losts quality...like sorry episode but sometimes actual answers are important for good storytelling and for an engaging plot. Also some lines were very forced or obvious foreshadowing to me. Seeing that they were "Adam and Eve" was cool though...anyways I give the episode a 5.5/10... and this is compared to Lost as a whole...not a 5.5/10 compared to every other show and movie out there. But just weak for Losts standards for sure.
Jack wasn't right about pushing the button...
Daddy issues are bad but mommy issues man.. I feel they're the worst!😔
Was Lost the first case where the writers started trolling their own fans in the script? God Bless Bad Robot
How did they troll?!
@@kuhpunkt So I was a viewer when the show originally aired. There was a lot of fans concerned about the plot questions of the show being resolved. The line in this episode "For every question I answer you will have two more" is their response to the fans wanting conclusions to their plot questions
@@mikesied That's not what trolling is.
@@kuhpunkt incorrect. it certainly was trolling
@@kuhpunkt depicting fans as a child who gets annoying asking too many questions... obv a troll job...
I can't anymore, I'm done with y'all. I've never met a bunch of people more set on "figuring out" the show so hard that they can't enjoy the show for what it is. Like, seriously, just don't talk during the show. I can figured out movies too; in Seven, I knew what was in the box immediately; I can figure out The Sixth Sense as soon as he got shot. But you know something, I was able to 1) keep it to myself, and 2) forget about it enough to enjoy the ride of watching the movie. It's like you guys are intently watching a magician trying to *catch* the slight of hand. Why do that when the real issue is that you don't believe in magic in the first place? LOL
Ok, boomer.
@@kuhpunkt Sorry, wrong generation.
@@tfpp1 Nah.
This episode was very divisive. However, it has grown on me somewhat since when it first aired. It reminds me of the prequel trilogy from Star Wars. The underlying story is good and sound; however, the execution just isn't up to par. It actually feels...rushed. It feels like the writers tried to quickly stuff thousands of years of island history into a 48 minute episode. I think that it could have been better in terms of writing (pacing) and direction.
34:00
*The chalkboard images that appear in the intro video are from a play that Hogwarts was in. The play was supposed to be set in a "cave" that had tons of graffiti on the walls. At the time, we were nearing the end of the first season, and they were aware of "the numbers". They took great delight in spreading the numbers all over the walls. The whole set was distressed the next day so that you couldn't really make out most of the graffiti.
(It would have been distracting for the audience, and it was supposed to look weathered)
Knowing this, I took the liberty of inserting some "easter eggs" for you to find, that won't mean anything to Hogwarts... yet.
Please serie vikings
*SPOILER
2:44 - Hannah: “Well they’re not dead in both timelines so...”
Me: Well... I’ve got some news for you there.
She's right though, they're not dead in the island timeline.
yann hollister She was talking about Sun and Jin, at least I believe she was, sorry if I’m wrong
@@thecreatorofdestruction1852 oh ok my bad then 😉
Oh and this show is the best of all time, screw BrBa (but not really hha).
I'm sick of reading how perfect BrBa is when it has just as many flaws as LOST did, especially seasons 2 & 3... the flashforward in BrBa also has absolutely zero impact on the plot and just seemed to be in there to give fans a reason to come back, not to mention the hilarious continuity error of the Teddy Bear Eye.
"They made it up as they went along".... and so did Vinnie Gilligan.... Jesse was meant to die, writers strike helped Vince change his mind, Gus was only supposed to be a minor villain with Hector as the big bad, and let's not pretend Picket from LOST and Landry from Friday Night Lights were always meant to be the two major villains.
Just like LOST, the final image was planned out.... but everything else was made up and changed.
It's how TV works!
Sorry for the rant, but it has to be said.
BrBa doesn't have as many inconsistencies or flaws as LOST. LOST wasn't just made up as they went along.
@@kuhpunkt well 25, 24 and 23 episodes for the first 3 seasons (LOST) are the reason why LOST is more susceptible to having flaws, network TV is a lot harder than cable my friend. It's why Larry David, Joss Whedon and Damon Lindelof all became depressed and threatened to quit at one point or another.... because writing 20+ plus episodes a year is a big ask. If Gilligan ran X Files, I doubt he would be handing in consistent work.... heck, some of his work on X Files was shoddy too.
As for LOST, it's a fact that they were winging it early on, they didn't know what was in the Hatch, or even that Locke was in a wheelchair in the pilot.... LOST was only mapped out when they got the end date in the middle of season 3..... which is ironic considering so many people hate the last 3 seasons of LOST. (I don't, personally).
There are specific things they planned, like the final image of Jack closing his eyes In the same place he opened them in the pilot and the personification of Light and Dark.... but most of the mysteries from the first few seasons, were famously made up with no answers in place.... doesn't mean the answers they gave weren't great, like the Hatch and Dharma in general. But they didn't even conceive Dharma until they were writing season 2.... I don't even think the word "Quarantine" was shown on the Hatch door in Exodus.
There's only one answer in LOST that I really hated and wished they left ambiguous, and that is the Whispers.
As for BrBa, even with 13 episodes, the show often stalled in the middle of each season. I can't name one consistently good thing that happened in season 3 until Hank and the Twins episode.... and then it's all guns blazing from then on (pun intended).
@@kevrutherford77 You now bring in other reasons as excuses. I'm not even blaming the writers. Yes, putting out over 20 episodes a year is incredibly tough, but that doesn't change the fact that LOST has been inconsistent at times. I love the show, but there are a bunch of things that irk me. You might not have liked some episodes of BrBa, but it was always focused, character driven drama, building up the plot with great craftsmanship.
Saying that they didn't know what was in the hatch depends on the context. Did they know what was inside when they made the pilot? No. Did they know when they introduced it on like episode 11? Yes. And just because they didn't know that Locke was in a wheelchair, doesn't mean they were just winging it. They had plans. And no, they didn't write with no anwers in mind. That was a big rule they had.
And no, DHARMA wasn't conceived until they wrote season 2. DHARMA already existed before they started filming the pilot.
@@kuhpunkt yeah, you're wrong. Damon has said many times that they were winging it early on.
Also, I didnt say LOST wasn't inconsistent, point to any of my comments that say this, my point was to say that those that believe BrBa is the best show of all time (especially now GoT f'd up their ending) always bring in the fact that it's consistently great, when it is NOT.
You can argue that the show got better and better, which it did, but there is absolutely no way that show was incredible from start to finish, especially in regards to "sticking the landing".... Considering it wasn't juggling a gazillion character arcs as well as a rich mythology... the finale focused on ONE person, Walt, he goes around tying up loose ends, yet the side characters like Skyler and Walt Jr just act like plot devices. Even Jesse is a plot device, especially if you take away El Camino.
The likes of LOST and GoT were juggling so many different things by series' end that it was clearly much harder to wrap things up.
BrBa gets too much credit, it was easy and simplistic.
LOST, GoT, BSG, X-Files, Alias..... all rich with mythology, all have their fair share of haters because of their endings.... heck, even Fringe could be added to that.
@@kevrutherford77 How am I wrong? You said DHARMA was only conceived when they wrote season 2. That's not true. They existed very early, even before they started filming the pilot. There's more than enough proof for this.
Damon is just way to self-depricating, talking himself down, because he clearly suffers (suffered?) from imposter syndrome. They knew more shit in the beginning than they often get credit for.
Hate this episode. And absolutely loved Expose. There I said it
RAZZLE DAZZLE!
HubbleFunk 🙌
Hot take ;)
Expose is a damn fun episode and I'll defend it to the death.
That's a normal opinion