my 2000 S2000 has 289,547 miles on it and all I do is put gas in it and change the oil.. I get to 9k rpm every day for 7yrs now, I think this engine will easily go 500k, bulletproof..
It's 2021 now and I just bought one... and trust me, it wasn't cheap!.. I see you can foresee the future.. can you tell me when I would become rich and when I'd meet my soul mate? LOL!!!
MrHess9298 he should actually give money to the buyer since it's probably crap now and will break down very soon. that's liability and handling cost for trash. i'm not hating s2000 but anything over 300,000 miles is insane no matter what the car is.
Matt I know a guy with a 2004 M3 pushing 335,000 miles, and the motor is almost as high-strung as the S2000. It runs very well and it's on the original motor, no rebuild required. Even still has the original clutch. These cars aren't thrashed on the street or usually in traffic, close to 90% of these miles are cruising on the freeway at operating temperatures which leaves the least wear on an engine. The car still isn't worth nearly as much as a low mileage car (even if it is in far better condition) but it is a blanket statement to say that "it's probably crap now and will break down very soon".
The car was on Long Island New York Craigslist and should still be there. Car was beat to crap and riced with an ugly body kit. Seller wanted $6500. I saw it 2 days ago.
Fantastic review Matt! I am yet to drive either S2K, but they both seem like incredible cars. I love your honest feedback - your opinions differ quite a bit from mine and it's great to get a different perspective. I've been looking into both cars lately and was very drawn to the AP2 due to the higher torque curve (it's across the board a better tune, not just a peak number), softer rear suspension, and more aggressive gear ratios.
Thanks Jason! Glad you liked it! The S2000 is still probably the best modern affordable roadster in my opinion, such a riot. I prefer the AP1 like you saw in the video, but both are great. You should get one! You wouldn't regret it.
Great review as always! My brother had an S2k about 3 years ago, ended up selling it for an M3 but he's always kind of regretted getting rid if the Honda lol. Such a great car.
+Gold Pony You got spoiled by the awesome shifter just like I did. S2k is the first car I bought with my own money. Every other shifter feels like a lose worn out you know what :D
Owning an S2000 I have to agree high speed confidence isn't there - despite the car being capable. It's attributed to the short wheel base. Funny you say good things about the steering, as while it is precise it does lack some true feel through the wheel. Lastly having the 2.2L allows more torque but the key importance is the torque is available lower. My car is tuned to have vtec at 3900rpm which makes a world of a difference in the real world. Approx 15-22hp gained right there. On the track it makes the car much quicker out of the corner where you can stay and pull from a lower rpm. I recommend the car to anyone looking for cheap thrills. They hold their value (and rising dependant on year), have great aftermarket support from BBK to ECU tuning, and are very inexpensive to run - mind you track parts are more expensive than stock. But its stupid reliable. Simply put the car gets a lot of respect from other drivers, and non-drivers think it's a Corvette or a Porsche (not sure how...).
subaruwrxfan Just a suggestion: Ive been watching your vids for a very long time now. Is there any way you could talk about and show the engines of the cars you review. Im a technical kind of guy so I like to see how cars are packaged, design of the layout, and performance number. Keep up the work.
Matt Rupp there hundreds of other reviews, both video and written articles, that have just that. These video's are a more intimate review so adding technical jargon would greatly detract from the experience.
DynamiteDupree I dont think so. A simple pass over of the engine bay would be cool to see. He doesnt need to talk about how hot the engine runs, torque specs on the connecting rods lol. Just a simple " heres what the engine bay looks like. Power come from a (enter displacement) engine mated to a (type of transmission).
Matt Rupp I know EngineeringExplained goes through the engine layout in detail - location of dipstick, spark plugs etc. Different sort of review though
subaruwrxfan what I mean to say is doing it in the beginning. Its just a brief image of the bay, 8 min into the video. Im a student so I watch you in between classes and I dont always get so deep into the videos. A quick 360 around the car and engine bay shot before you take off gives perspective right off the bat of what the car is all about.
Matt that was a really nice review, but I want to point something out, its true that the AP1 feels better than the AP2 when it comes to driving experience (at least for some of us), the longer gears, higher redline, stronger VTEC feel when it engages, more tail happy, all that makes the car a little bit more fun, but the AP2 is still an improvement. When you just look at the numbers you think there's not much of a difference, yea only 9 ft-lbs of torque more, but thats not where the real difference is, if you look at a chart of each of them, you will notice that the AP2 makes about 20% more power at lower RPMs than the AP1, that coupled with the shorter gears gives the AP2 a better powerband, it reaches peak torque and peak hp earlier than the AP1 which makes the AP2 quicker than the AP1, but of course the AP1 has the advantage of the higher redline which makes the car reach higher speeds without needing to upshift as early as the AP2, for example, the AP1 can reach 60 mph in 2nd gear, whereas the AP2 has to upshift to 3rd gear and thats where the AP1 catches up. The difference is not really that big when it comes to drag racing, and on track and autocross the AP2 is slightly quicker, but most of that difference is due to the better tires, but when it comes to daily driving, the AP2 feels more comfortable, specially on the stop and go traffic and red lights, the AP2 has also a stronger differential. However they are both superb driving machines with minimalistic differences. By the way I own and AP1, and I love it to death :D.
Matt your confidence making videos and speaking your mind has skyrocketed since I first subscribed nearly 2 years ago. I make sure to watch and like every video you put out to show my support. Keep them coming! Great shots as always. Your commentary has become one of the most entertaining as for car channels in my opinion. No matter what others say, I love how passionate you are about cars as well as the way you laugh, giggle and grin about them.
I have an AP1 and have test driven an AP2 and would always pick the AP1 over the 2 mainly due to the red line. Like the quite literal scream of 9000 is the best.
LARRY SUGGS While you may be right, we don't get any MGs in Canada. Will have to do with either a Miata (eww !!) or a Boxster (expensive and older one's are hideous) and the S2000 is better than both on many accounts.
YouDontWannaFightMe Yes after having driven both, I will have to agree with Matt's overall review on the AP1 being slightly more exciting and better. However, S2000 prices are skyrocketing at this point, especially here in Canada, so I am okay with whatever S2000 I can get my hands on.
You hit the nail directly on the head when comparing the AP1 vs AP2. The greater experience is worth more than the 9 additional torque. The only issue I Have with the AP1 is its snap oversteer, I have experienced this on my AP1 & after it happens, you lose confidence in the car. It has an angry personality and it will bite you eventually, even if you're a good driver and are careful. As always, excellent review Matt!
Robert Bruin change your suspension and ease off the accelerator. it's mid engine car so letting off gas snaps out the tail. ap1 with better suspension is an f1 stuck to the ground almost
The AP2 looks better and the low end torque is better for daily use. But the quicker steering rack and rawness of the ap1 is just more fun! I've driven many and always come back with the same feeling.
you can keep any kind of automatic in cars like this....yuck.....i don't care if they are even faster because manual shifting is a huge part of the thrill....although I DO understand anyone frequently stuck in stop and go bumper to bumper wanting an auto....nothing more miserable than pumping a clutch for an hour to make such feel beyond miserable
I'm 100% with you on the AP1 vs AP2 argument. I learned to drive stick on an AP1 when I was 14 and I've wanted an S2000 ever since. I've driven many AP1s and several AP2s and the AP2 was still nice but didn't feel as raw and exciting and I also enjoy the longer gearing and higher revs of the AP1 more. I finally bought my dream AP1, 03' with 29k miles about a month ago and the excitement of driving it never deteriorates, although I have a Lexus LS400 for my daily driver so that helps me not get too used to it. My only gripe is power; my last car was a built K24 turbo RSX-S and I'm already itching to go forced induction on the S. Anyway, love the videos man keep it up.
Just going back through videos...the Matt in this episode was HILARIOUS with his wise cracks and dry humor, lol, kind of refreshing, thanks for the great review Matt, keep it up
I bought a 2004 AP2 with 63,000 miles on it 6 weeks ago and love the car. It's fantastic and runs like a new car. It has 4 Eagle F1 on it and I haven't experienced any high speed stability issues as noted in the video. The handling is very predictable.
rightttt? i always watched the ap1 review and finally got my own, and yeah its outside looking so damn aggressive and timeless, idont think I will be selling it anytime soon.
Glad you were able to get a hold of an AP2 for a review. However, I do have to disagree with you about the torque difference between it and the AP1. When I was car shopping I had the opportunity to drive both in a very short period and I came to the conclusion that the extra torque was noticeable (esp. during daily-driving scenarios). I am a laid back DD'er so maybe that's why I ended up getting an AP2. Other things I don't think you mentioned: suspension mounting points are reinforced, engine has stronger internals, and the nicer center console. Both are great cars in the end, but the rattles drove me nuts! Keep up the good work man
Glad to hear that Ap1 is more edgy than Ap2, by you saying that you missed driving the Ap1 more, helps my decision easier as I'm planning on buying one in the near future. Thanks
you're crazy if you choose ap1. the piston speed was lowered at without sacrificing power and increased longevity of engine a lot. that's a good thing not bad. I disagree with most of what you said about ap2 but you have your opinion. I have a lot of experience with both and only bad thing about ap2 is rear Springs are a bit soft which swift Springs fix that for 400 bucks and you can use stock dampers. and what you said about handling is funny cause the ap2 outperforms ap1 at track all day. the one you tested has mismatch tires and that's probably the culprit.ap2 has faster corner entry(less twitchy) and exit and slightly better acceleration through each gear.
The intake and exhaust have already be optimized for best output. However the AEM V2 intake actually proved agains in hp and torque. These engines are pretty much maxed out in the NA form.
An AP1 just sold at auction last month for $122K... I've never seen an AP2 sell for anywhere near that amount, just saying....it only had 980 miles on the odometer reading.
Dude as always excellent fun yet very professional job you did with this second beautiful S2000 you reviewed, thanks as always for such fun great job you do.
I have an ap1. the ap2s here (in australia) have the same F20C motor as the ap1 because we get euro versions not US versions. we never had the F22C1 (8k rpm) motor here. So if you really wanted an ap2 s2k with 9k rpm, engine swap or import
Great review and very accurate. Special note of interest is the handling at higher speeds. I recently bought a very clean low mileage (54k) S2000 and I felt the same thing at around 80mph. I have purchased a set of Eibach sway bars to tighten up the handling a bit and maybe a four way set of after market shocks. I'm coming from a 2016 GT350 and although these are not even on the same page, the S2000 is a much more affordable, reliable, fuel efficient fun car to drive.
also, you can't get 9lbs of torque from just bolt-ons - maybe in an Accord. This is was overengineered - so you need to boost it to find any appreciable gains.
Hey Matt Ya know this is one of the few cars that my opinion of has not changed since I first saw it way back when. I loved it then and I love it now! Really enjoyed the review of it. One day I would love to have one as a second vehicle. As far as which one pre-owned, I would probably go with the 2nd Gen, hoping that it was driven slightly milder. -JB
I cannot believe how quickly you were taking those corners. The S2000 is just such an amazing automobile. It's too bad that for a while Honda decided to suck, but at least they're starting to get it again. I was really surprised at your verdict in the end, I really thought you would like the AP2 better. And plus I saw an AP1 on craigslist one time that had 293,000 miles so you could probably safely say they are reliable. Great review BTW as always.
It really is a small car. I’m 5’6 and it felt cramped. The top is really low. I also had a Miata and that car felt much larger inside than the S2K with the top up.
AP1's and AP2's are both great cars! You can't go wrong with either. They still look fresh for their age. I'm often asked if it's a new model from Honda (not many in my area). They are shocked to find out that it's 15 y/o. AP1's are known for cracked exhaust valve retainers and worn transmision synchronizers. Retainer issue is easy to address (upgrade to AP2 retainers), and the synchro issue seems a bit overblown (MTF selection and proper shifting technique go a long way). If it comes down between the two, let the price/condition be the deciding factor. While the AP2 offers some refinements, I wouldn't trade '00 for one.........unless, of course, it's a CR!
I prefer the appearance of this AP2. But I would rather have the 9000 rpm redline. Would be a tough decision. Why does this S2000 sound so quiet compared to the older one? Did the AP1 you reviewed have an aftermarket intake?
You know they lowered the revs because they stroked the motor out to 2.2 lt from 2.0 lt. This means you have a hard time getting it to rev as much. But it give the car better torque and torque characteristics.
Well Honda did change a lot of things, for improvements of course. To the masses, not too noticeable. The AP2 is faster than the AP1 on the circuit stock for stock, it's just better refined and not as edgy. I agree that they should've kept the engine the same as AP1 though the engine is more reliable in the AP2.
The stability is often related to the tracking going out of whack over time. You need to ensure the correct toe in, tracking, laser wheel alignment etc. All needs to be done properly as well otherwise the car won't handle right. Still a lively RWD car though!
How was the torque curve in comparison to the AP1? I know the difference in peak torque is small on paper, but that doesn't tell the whole story. Does it have that huge lack of torque down low like the first gen? I only ask because the difference between the two engine choices in my car was 10 horsepower, but the torque curve was FAR better tuned on the higher end engine so it had a lot more grunt to it.
The biggest change is the F22C engine. It's been stroked out from the F20 which adds 0.2 liters of displacement, but because of the longer travel of the piston, the redline had been lowered to 8000 for reliability of the engine. This results in the same power band as the F20 but the power curve is shifted to the left. A bunch of smaller things were upgraded that are probably unnoticeable to most people. The 04-05 models are a bit special because they have the F22 engine but still maintain the cable-operated throttle and lacks traction control. The 06-08 models changed the feel a bit with traction control and drive-by-wire throttle.
maximus9401 I am curious why people think that cable throttle is better? Beyond the idea that you are more directly connected to the air butterfly In "theory" the DBW is better because it will seek out the ideal throttle position to create the most power which may not be with the butterfly valve all the way open. When I recorded autocross runs in my last car I noticed this. It usually doesn't go true WOT until above 5k or so prior to that even with the pedal to the floor the computer decided it was better to be below WOT. The car also blips the throttle nicely for downshifts, there is no noticeable lag, cruise control is smoother, and if you release the clutch slow enough it automatically compensates for the increased load when you are teaching people how to drive stick. Certainly in some cars DBW is tuned for the best fuel milage and emissions, but not in the s2k. I'm fine with the traction control as I plan to drive it in the winter. The TPMS on my 08 is definitely annoying! I autocross regularly so I am always checking tire pressures anyway :/
ge8basefan it's all in the feeling, honestly. Yes, there is the idea that you're more directly connected, but it's the actual feel of it for me personally. The linear response, the resistance of the pedal feel, the vibrations that you feel through the pedal as you apply throttle. All of that just simply adds to a more mechanical feel that a lot of people appreciate. I have cars with both DBW and cable throttle. I even have my DBW modified with an electronic throttle controller to be mega sensitive, where even a small push on the pedal results in large throttle application. Like half-way on the throttle is pretty much 100% throttle. So imagine all the throttle percentage crammed into half the pedal travel. Really really fun. But as fun as it is, the throttle cable is still more satisfying to use. And in regards to cars like the S2000, it embodies that sports car image better to have a more mechanical connection to the car. That even lends itself to the preference of the AP1 over the AP2 because people think that the AP1 is more raw. I like it somewhere in the middle, which is why I prefer the 04-05 AP2. But if I could have the AP2 with the F20 like they do in other markets, I'd be all over it. That would be perfect for me. AP2 tweaks and refinement with the F20 engine.
maximus9401 I heard they also made a few suspension tweaks on the AP2 to reduce snap oversteer. While I agree that a throttle cable has the more direct "organic" feel to it, the dbw system allows you to run Hondata flashpro which makes tuning everything including throttle imputs a breeze. The only reason the AP1 feels more "dramatic" is because its such a narrow peaky powerband. The AP2 has a broader torque band for better driveability around town and as a result of the improved torque band and the lower rev limit, the engine tune smoothed out the vtec engagement point. Alot of the older Honda V-tec engines will experience this change when tuned as well. Ive known some people that actually request the tuner to leave the vtec kick even though it is technically a less effecient fuel map. to each his own i guess.
That was amazing matt! Im thinking about maybe getting one when i get my license in three years but i could also get a about same year mustang gt or a newer wrx for cheaper.;) what do u think is good for canada?
"Miata weighs as much as my microwave" lol that was hilarious. Great review S2000's will always be an iconic car no matter how old it gets. Could be the tires and suspension is probably old and worn out at that many km's.
my 2000 S2000 has 289,547 miles on it and all I do is put gas in it and change the oil.. I get to 9k rpm every day for 7yrs now, I think this engine will easily go 500k, bulletproof..
That is awesome man, my 94 accord is at 321,000 miles and I just do the same :]
amazing. I was kinda worried about getting a s2000 with 105k - 110k miles. Good to hear they still go strong
Mickey Hartsell lol i hit 220k and i have the same sentiment. These cars are a work of excellent craftsmanship.
SWISSTHEDJ I mean it is a honda lol
Cool I have a 2004 Honda Accord with 201,643 miles
Definitely one of the best cars Honda has ever made, pick one up now because a clean low mileage example is only gonna go up in value!
Street Speed 717 weird seeing you here 3 years later ha. Cool to see you enjoy the s2000!
You were right
It's 2021 now and I just bought one... and trust me, it wasn't cheap!.. I see you can foresee the future.. can you tell me when I would become rich and when I'd meet my soul mate? LOL!!!
Oh how i wish you were wrong
I saw a 2001 S2000 on Craigslist with 392,000 miles! Insane.
Wow, that's the most I've ever heard for one! Doesn't surprise me though! Such an amazing motor.
How much Did he want ?
MrHess9298 he should actually give money to the buyer since it's probably crap now and will break down very soon. that's liability and handling cost for trash. i'm not hating s2000 but anything over 300,000 miles is insane no matter what the car is.
Matt I know a guy with a 2004 M3 pushing 335,000 miles, and the motor is almost as high-strung as the S2000. It runs very well and it's on the original motor, no rebuild required. Even still has the original clutch.
These cars aren't thrashed on the street or usually in traffic, close to 90% of these miles are cruising on the freeway at operating temperatures which leaves the least wear on an engine. The car still isn't worth nearly as much as a low mileage car (even if it is in far better condition) but it is a blanket statement to say that "it's probably crap now and will break down very soon".
The car was on Long Island New York Craigslist and should still be there. Car was beat to crap and riced with an ugly body kit. Seller wanted $6500. I saw it 2 days ago.
Fantastic review Matt! I am yet to drive either S2K, but they both seem like incredible cars. I love your honest feedback - your opinions differ quite a bit from mine and it's great to get a different perspective. I've been looking into both cars lately and was very drawn to the AP2 due to the higher torque curve (it's across the board a better tune, not just a peak number), softer rear suspension, and more aggressive gear ratios.
Thanks Jason! Glad you liked it! The S2000 is still probably the best modern affordable roadster in my opinion, such a riot. I prefer the AP1 like you saw in the video, but both are great. You should get one! You wouldn't regret it.
+subaruwrxfan and then he got one!
You get an s2000 in 3 months
Only car that makes s2k owners butt pucker up is a lotus
Engineering Explained don't you have one now?
as soon as he comes up in the very beginning he moves his arms so fast It looks like the video is sped up
I hadn't noticed hahaha now that's some funny stuff
Raul Burgos that annoys me
He probably needs to lay off the coffee a bit, still great car reviews
That's classic subaruwrxfan, signature intro move
The speed of the arm movement directly correlates with how much he actually likes the car
One of the best car reviewers on youtube MotorTrend should give you a job immediately
Not even close
Adam Saxton LOL
96rasco He's too good for most f the guys on motor trend lol
Adam Saxton And what your assuming manginas like Jonny Lieberman who are biased towards brands are good?
96rasco Matt Farah would be better, much more expansive knowledge (due to his age of course)
Great review as always! My brother had an S2k about 3 years ago, ended up selling it for an M3 but he's always kind of regretted getting rid if the Honda lol. Such a great car.
Hands down the best pure sports car for the money.
what would you recommend? I was thinking on getting a s2k, a 350z, brz, or miata???
+Sensati0n Miata is always the answer
+Evan8D Miata is better than an s2k?? Yeah and your girlfriend is hotter than a supermodel. Lol.
Thank you nigga :)
used Porsche 911 gt3 rs with 100k miles cost 125k,they have 500hp,top speed is 193,and has some nice steering
You look right at home in that s2k lol
AP1 or AP2? :3
tommyboy1two I was expecting him to fall in love and want to buy one. His impression was a surprise
tommyboy1two
I think he was driving fine the car it is the right car for him doesn't it?
Love this car...This was the car I learned to drive manual on and I don't think any car after that felt quite as good to me. Nice review man!
+Gold Pony You got spoiled by the awesome shifter just like I did. S2k is the first car I bought with my own money. Every other shifter feels like a lose worn out you know what :D
Owning an S2000 I have to agree high speed confidence isn't there - despite the car being capable. It's attributed to the short wheel base. Funny you say good things about the steering, as while it is precise it does lack some true feel through the wheel. Lastly having the 2.2L allows more torque but the key importance is the torque is available lower.
My car is tuned to have vtec at 3900rpm which makes a world of a difference in the real world. Approx 15-22hp gained right there. On the track it makes the car much quicker out of the corner where you can stay and pull from a lower rpm.
I recommend the car to anyone looking for cheap thrills. They hold their value (and rising dependant on year), have great aftermarket support from BBK to ECU tuning, and are very inexpensive to run - mind you track parts are more expensive than stock. But its stupid reliable. Simply put the car gets a lot of respect from other drivers, and non-drivers think it's a Corvette or a Porsche (not sure how...).
Unicorn farts. That is all.
Tj Hunt 1 million unicorns all fart at the exact same time!! Thus is Vtec!
MAAAAAddd
Mcm all the way tj
Tj Hunt V-Tech kicked in yo! Also Maaaaaaaad!
HJ Farooqi Im sorry ,I forgot to mention it should come pink from factory...
The JDM AP1 swaps are becoming very popular. 7 extra horsepower and 6 extra torque. I’m restoring my 2003 S2000 with 215,000 miles on My channel !
subaruwrxfan Just a suggestion: Ive been watching your vids for a very long time now. Is there any way you could talk about and show the engines of the cars you review. Im a technical kind of guy so I like to see how cars are packaged, design of the layout, and performance number. Keep up the work.
Matt Rupp there hundreds of other reviews, both video and written articles, that have just that. These video's are a more intimate review so adding technical jargon would greatly detract from the experience.
DynamiteDupree I dont think so. A simple pass over of the engine bay would be cool to see. He doesnt need to talk about how hot the engine runs, torque specs on the connecting rods lol. Just a simple " heres what the engine bay looks like. Power come from a (enter displacement) engine mated to a (type of transmission).
I always include an engine bay shot every time I give the horsepower figures after my first acceleration in the car...
Matt Rupp I know EngineeringExplained goes through the engine layout in detail - location of dipstick, spark plugs etc. Different sort of review though
subaruwrxfan what I mean to say is doing it in the beginning. Its just a brief image of the bay, 8 min into the video. Im a student so I watch you in between classes and I dont always get so deep into the videos. A quick 360 around the car and engine bay shot before you take off gives perspective right off the bat of what the car is all about.
Matt that was a really nice review, but I want to point something out, its true that the AP1 feels better than the AP2 when it comes to driving experience (at least for some of us), the longer gears, higher redline, stronger VTEC feel when it engages, more tail happy, all that makes the car a little bit more fun, but the AP2 is still an improvement. When you just look at the numbers you think there's not much of a difference, yea only 9 ft-lbs of torque more, but thats not where the real difference is, if you look at a chart of each of them, you will notice that the AP2 makes about 20% more power at lower RPMs than the AP1, that coupled with the shorter gears gives the AP2 a better powerband, it reaches peak torque and peak hp earlier than the AP1 which makes the AP2 quicker than the AP1, but of course the AP1 has the advantage of the higher redline which makes the car reach higher speeds without needing to upshift as early as the AP2, for example, the AP1 can reach 60 mph in 2nd gear, whereas the AP2 has to upshift to 3rd gear and thats where the AP1 catches up. The difference is not really that big when it comes to drag racing, and on track and autocross the AP2 is slightly quicker, but most of that difference is due to the better tires, but when it comes to daily driving, the AP2 feels more comfortable, specially on the stop and go traffic and red lights, the AP2 has also a stronger differential. However they are both superb driving machines with minimalistic differences. By the way I own and AP1, and I love it to death :D.
Matt your confidence making videos and speaking your mind has skyrocketed since I first subscribed nearly 2 years ago. I make sure to watch and like every video you put out to show my support. Keep them coming! Great shots as always. Your commentary has become one of the most entertaining as for car channels in my opinion. No matter what others say, I love how passionate you are about cars as well as the way you laugh, giggle and grin about them.
I agree with you on all points. I own a MY 2000 S2000 (AP1). I wouldn't trade it for an AP2. 9000 rpm........................FTW
I have an AP1 and have test driven an AP2 and would always pick the AP1 over the 2 mainly due to the red line. Like the quite literal scream of 9000 is the best.
ACDCKISSACDCKISS ap1 is the original
Ap2 is the better car though.
Matt Budesa The AP2 is the better car but the AP1 is the better s2000
@@Apollo_s2k True.
@@Apollo_s2k Very true. Couldn't of said it better myself.
I need one...really bad. Like right now, I don't care if its an AP1 or AP2. One of THE best drivers cars to grace the earth.
The Mg b is one of the best, manual everything you have to be skilled to drive one, and no drivers assistance all real driving
LARRY SUGGS While you may be right, we don't get any MGs in Canada. Will have to do with either a Miata (eww !!) or a Boxster (expensive and older one's are hideous) and the S2000 is better than both on many accounts.
I think the AP1 is the one to get because it looks better and has the higher redline.
YouDontWannaFightMe Yes after having driven both, I will have to agree with Matt's overall review on the AP1 being slightly more exciting and better. However, S2000 prices are skyrocketing at this point, especially here in Canada, so I am okay with whatever S2000 I can get my hands on.
647killa Pick one up soon because a clean low mileage example is getting more expensive by the day
Awesome intro : ) I want that gauge cluster!
YES ANOTHER S2K REVIEW
Great review, you have definitely highlighted a few of the really important key points on the car.
Maybe the best s2k review I've ever seen keep it up bro
Easy the best car he has reviewed =)
You hit the nail directly on the head when comparing the AP1 vs AP2. The greater experience is worth more than the 9 additional torque. The only issue I Have with the AP1 is its snap oversteer, I have experienced this on my AP1 & after it happens, you lose confidence in the car. It has an angry personality and it will bite you eventually, even if you're a good driver and are careful. As always, excellent review Matt!
Robert Bruin change your suspension and ease off the accelerator. it's mid engine car so letting off gas snaps out the tail. ap1 with better suspension is an f1 stuck to the ground almost
I've been a die hard RX-8 fan but man I just love the s2000 truly unique sports car! Great review Matt
The AP2 looks better and the low end torque is better for daily use. But the quicker steering rack and rawness of the ap1 is just more fun! I've driven many and always come back with the same feeling.
I heard Honda might bring back the S2000 with tubro engine and awd with 7 speed dual clutch transmission!
GBraidi78 i came
no
you can keep any kind of automatic in cars like this....yuck.....i don't care if they are even faster because manual shifting is a huge part of the thrill....although I DO understand anyone frequently stuck in stop and go bumper to bumper wanting an auto....nothing more miserable than pumping a clutch for an hour to make such feel beyond miserable
I love watching this guys reviews , every time he accelerates he looks so happy haha
Happy or creepy?
one thing that you'll notice right off the bat is the use of "right off the bat" too often in this video
I'm 100% with you on the AP1 vs AP2 argument. I learned to drive stick on an AP1 when I was 14 and I've wanted an S2000 ever since. I've driven many AP1s and several AP2s and the AP2 was still nice but didn't feel as raw and exciting and I also enjoy the longer gearing and higher revs of the AP1 more. I finally bought my dream AP1, 03' with 29k miles about a month ago and the excitement of driving it never deteriorates, although I have a Lexus LS400 for my daily driver so that helps me not get too used to it. My only gripe is power; my last car was a built K24 turbo RSX-S and I'm already itching to go forced induction on the S. Anyway, love the videos man keep it up.
Just going back through videos...the Matt in this episode was HILARIOUS with his wise cracks and dry humor, lol, kind of refreshing, thanks for the great review Matt, keep it up
It would be awesome if Honda brought these back
I bought a 2004 AP2 with 63,000 miles on it 6 weeks ago and love the car. It's fantastic and runs like a new car. It has 4 Eagle F1 on it and I haven't experienced any high speed stability issues as noted in the video. The handling is very predictable.
I liked your comparison on the AP1 and the AP2. I've reached over 100k miles on my AP1 and she's still running great. :)
subarufan: s2000 or z33???
Ap1 any day !! Matt your reaction to the 02' model was much more thrilling :) awesome car reviews, keep it up !
3:50 I hate when people try to change the radio station when I'm shifting. Looks even harder in an S2000
Was waiting on this review, good job man
I watch the s2k intro daily, then stare out my window and look at my beautiful s2000 sitting out front.
rightttt? i always watched the ap1 review and finally got my own, and yeah its outside looking so damn aggressive and timeless, idont think I will be selling it anytime soon.
Glad you were able to get a hold of an AP2 for a review. However, I do have to disagree with you about the torque difference between it and the AP1. When I was car shopping I had the opportunity to drive both in a very short period and I came to the conclusion that the extra torque was noticeable (esp. during daily-driving scenarios). I am a laid back DD'er so maybe that's why I ended up getting an AP2. Other things I don't think you mentioned: suspension mounting points are reinforced, engine has stronger internals, and the nicer center console. Both are great cars in the end, but the rattles drove me nuts! Keep up the good work man
i miss that plus 1000 RPM when you raving the engine!
Glad to hear that Ap1 is more edgy than Ap2, by you saying that you missed driving the Ap1 more, helps my decision easier as I'm planning on buying one in the near future. Thanks
you're crazy if you choose ap1. the piston speed was lowered at without sacrificing power and increased longevity of engine a lot. that's a good thing not bad. I disagree with most of what you said about ap2 but you have your opinion. I have a lot of experience with both and only bad thing about ap2 is rear Springs are a bit soft which swift Springs fix that for 400 bucks and you can use stock dampers. and what you said about handling is funny cause the ap2 outperforms ap1 at track all day. the one you tested has mismatch tires and that's probably the culprit.ap2 has faster corner entry(less twitchy) and exit and slightly better acceleration through each gear.
Awesome video, love the intro matt!
Just want to let everyone know, you will not regret getting an s2000, both ap1 and ap2. They're a blast to drive and they get so much attention.
My dream car. Been following a build over at Speed Academy with individual throttle bodies. It's going to be insane! I'll own one someday hopefully
I really enjoy your videos! Greetings from Australia :)
I would still take an AP2 even though the AP1 is better. I like the looks of the AP2 better. I just have to make sure I don't drive an AP1. Lol.
Matt is the best reviewer on RUclips
please review the 2000 Celica GTS. Super fun car, I miss my old one
The intake and exhaust have already be optimized for best output. However the AEM V2 intake actually proved agains in hp and torque. These engines are pretty much maxed out in the NA form.
European AP2 S2000 kept the F20C engine with AP2 design and suspensions update. These EU AP2 are more valuable than AP1 in Europe.
An AP1 just sold at auction last month for $122K... I've never seen an AP2 sell for anywhere near that amount, just saying....it only had 980 miles on the odometer reading.
Dude as always excellent fun yet very professional job you did with this second beautiful S2000 you reviewed, thanks as always for such fun great job you do.
Correct me if Im wrong but the new rev limit on the ap2 is actually 8200rpm and not 8000 rpm. This was to increase engine longevity.
I have an ap1. the ap2s here (in australia) have the same F20C motor as the ap1 because we get euro versions not US versions. we never had the F22C1 (8k rpm) motor here. So if you really wanted an ap2 s2k with 9k rpm, engine swap or import
Great review and very accurate. Special note of interest is the handling at higher speeds. I recently bought a very clean low mileage (54k) S2000 and I felt the same thing at around 80mph. I have purchased a set of Eibach sway bars to tighten up the handling a bit and maybe a four way set of after market shocks. I'm coming from a 2016 GT350 and although these are not even on the same page, the S2000 is a much more affordable, reliable, fuel efficient fun car to drive.
also, you can't get 9lbs of torque from just bolt-ons - maybe in an Accord. This is was overengineered - so you need to boost it to find any appreciable gains.
Hey Matt
Ya know this is one of the few cars that my opinion of has not changed since I first saw it way back when. I loved it then and I love it now! Really enjoyed the review of it. One day I would love to have one as a second vehicle. As far as which one pre-owned, I would probably go with the 2nd Gen, hoping that it was driven slightly milder.
-JB
Now this is a great review
I love this review such enthusiasm! good job man new sub
I had the choice of 2003 or 2004 and I chose the 9k rpm. I wanted the last year of the ap1
Just bought an 06 S2000 with 63k miles on it. Picking up the car tomorrow. Couldn't be more excited.
The MNM Trio make sure you keep it in a garage trust me theres haters
Rafael grullon What do you mean?
What's the need for a radio when you have the music from the engine?
the colour of the youtube red video line is the exact same colour as the s2000
The last version outstanding for your Review is the s2000 Club Racer. Do you have access to one?
I cannot believe how quickly you were taking those corners. The S2000 is just such an amazing automobile. It's too bad that for a while Honda decided to suck, but at least they're starting to get it again. I was really surprised at your verdict in the end, I really thought you would like the AP2 better. And plus I saw an AP1 on craigslist one time that had 293,000 miles so you could probably safely say they are reliable. Great review BTW as always.
great review, why did he mismatch tires?
these are really good, spanked one last year with my Firehawk, guy had a clean yellow s2000 with awesome sounding exhaust.
It really is a small car. I’m 5’6 and it felt cramped. The top is really low. I also had a Miata and that car felt much larger inside than the S2K with the top up.
AP1's and AP2's are both great cars! You can't go wrong with either.
They still look fresh for their age. I'm often asked if it's a new model from Honda (not many in my area). They are shocked to find out that it's 15 y/o.
AP1's are known for cracked exhaust valve retainers and worn transmision synchronizers. Retainer issue is easy to address (upgrade to AP2 retainers), and the synchro issue seems a bit overblown (MTF selection and proper shifting technique go a long way).
If it comes down between the two, let the price/condition be the deciding factor.
While the AP2 offers some refinements, I wouldn't trade '00 for one.........unless, of course, it's a CR!
How much does the car cost over there? It never snows here in California, so i assume the prices are more inflated over here.
Would u prefer a Rsx type s or a s2k if u had nth to worry about
3 weeks back, bought an identical red 2004 S2000 with 5,000 miles in Texas!!!!
I always wondered why does the engine look crooked?
So this is the car with the bad ass hid projection headlights?
I prefer the appearance of this AP2. But I would rather have the 9000 rpm redline. Would be a tough decision. Why does this S2000 sound so quiet compared to the older one? Did the AP1 you reviewed have an aftermarket intake?
Great review! We just picked up an AP2 last week!
Trying to decide between this and an ej8. Space is kind of the deciding factor for me, especially since I have subs in the trunk
Bridgstone re11's sort out the front end issue.
I switched over from the stock 050's and it woke the car up to a new level of grip.
I always have been a fan of the s2000. This and the rx8 are by far the best cars in this class..
I've owned an na miata for about a year. Should I upgrade to this?
You know they lowered the revs because they stroked the motor out to 2.2 lt from 2.0 lt. This means you have a hard time getting it to rev as much. But it give the car better torque and torque characteristics.
300ZX last gen review?
Well Honda did change a lot of things, for improvements of course. To the masses, not too noticeable. The AP2 is faster than the AP1 on the circuit stock for stock, it's just better refined and not as edgy. I agree that they should've kept the engine the same as AP1 though the engine is more reliable in the AP2.
+TheEpyonz Especially the valve retainers. Ap1 had really weak ones and could drop a valve if you don't inspect them regularly.
Hi Matt, have you reviewed a Toyota Sera car, 1990 1.500cc automatic. Kind regards David Macpherson.
cut to the chase please, is the car still available , and what is the asking price ??
s2k's have such a timeless design. I'm sure they'll still look fresh 10+ years from now.
The stability is often related to the tracking going out of whack over time. You need to ensure the correct toe in, tracking, laser wheel alignment etc. All needs to be done properly as well otherwise the car won't handle right. Still a lively RWD car though!
How was the torque curve in comparison to the AP1? I know the difference in peak torque is small on paper, but that doesn't tell the whole story. Does it have that huge lack of torque down low like the first gen?
I only ask because the difference between the two engine choices in my car was 10 horsepower, but the torque curve was FAR better tuned on the higher end engine so it had a lot more grunt to it.
Hey which car do you think is the best the s2000,nissan 350z, mazda speed6, or a bmw e36
The biggest change is the F22C engine. It's been stroked out from the F20 which adds 0.2 liters of displacement, but because of the longer travel of the piston, the redline had been lowered to 8000 for reliability of the engine. This results in the same power band as the F20 but the power curve is shifted to the left. A bunch of smaller things were upgraded that are probably unnoticeable to most people.
The 04-05 models are a bit special because they have the F22 engine but still maintain the cable-operated throttle and lacks traction control. The 06-08 models changed the feel a bit with traction control and drive-by-wire throttle.
maximus9401 I am curious why people think that cable throttle is better? Beyond the idea that you are more directly connected to the air butterfly
In "theory" the DBW is better because it will seek out the ideal throttle position to create the most power which may not be with the butterfly valve all the way open. When I recorded autocross runs in my last car I noticed this. It usually doesn't go true WOT until above 5k or so prior to that even with the pedal to the floor the computer decided it was better to be below WOT.
The car also blips the throttle nicely for downshifts, there is no noticeable lag, cruise control is smoother, and if you release the clutch slow enough it automatically compensates for the increased load when you are teaching people how to drive stick.
Certainly in some cars DBW is tuned for the best fuel milage and emissions, but not in the s2k.
I'm fine with the traction control as I plan to drive it in the winter. The TPMS on my 08 is definitely annoying! I autocross regularly so I am always checking tire pressures anyway :/
ge8basefan it's all in the feeling, honestly. Yes, there is the idea that you're more directly connected, but it's the actual feel of it for me personally. The linear response, the resistance of the pedal feel, the vibrations that you feel through the pedal as you apply throttle. All of that just simply adds to a more mechanical feel that a lot of people appreciate.
I have cars with both DBW and cable throttle. I even have my DBW modified with an electronic throttle controller to be mega sensitive, where even a small push on the pedal results in large throttle application. Like half-way on the throttle is pretty much 100% throttle. So imagine all the throttle percentage crammed into half the pedal travel. Really really fun. But as fun as it is, the throttle cable is still more satisfying to use.
And in regards to cars like the S2000, it embodies that sports car image better to have a more mechanical connection to the car. That even lends itself to the preference of the AP1 over the AP2 because people think that the AP1 is more raw. I like it somewhere in the middle, which is why I prefer the 04-05 AP2. But if I could have the AP2 with the F20 like they do in other markets, I'd be all over it. That would be perfect for me. AP2 tweaks and refinement with the F20 engine.
maximus9401 I heard they also made a few suspension tweaks on the AP2 to reduce snap oversteer. While I agree that a throttle cable has the more direct "organic" feel to it, the dbw system allows you to run Hondata flashpro which makes tuning everything including throttle imputs a breeze. The only reason the AP1 feels more "dramatic" is because its such a narrow peaky powerband. The AP2 has a broader torque band for better driveability around town and as a result of the improved torque band and the lower rev limit, the engine tune smoothed out the vtec engagement point. Alot of the older Honda V-tec engines will experience this change when tuned as well. Ive known some people that actually request the tuner to leave the vtec kick even though it is technically a less effecient fuel map. to each his own i guess.
That was amazing matt! Im thinking about maybe getting one when i get my license in three years but i could also get a about same year mustang gt or a newer wrx for cheaper.;) what do u think is good for canada?
AP2, like the one I just picked up, is SUCH a better DD. So much fun
what's the intro song???? please answer
I love your intro for every video
I'm 6'4 205 pounds. Will I fit in the s2k with the soft top up?
Car has great high speed stability. Probably needed a wheel balance. Best car I've ever owned. Steering is definitely the bench mark.
I think you had more fun with the AP1.
What do you prefer and why?
love you're vids.
"Miata weighs as much as my microwave" lol that was hilarious. Great review S2000's will always be an iconic car no matter how old it gets.
Could be the tires and suspension is probably old and worn out at that many km's.