How NOT to tell a Love Story in your Game - A Critique of FFXV
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- Опубликовано: 14 июл 2024
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It's not that they had a bad relationship.
It's that they had no relationship.
They had an arranged marriage
Wil E Uh, Dimitri and Edelgard?
@@NemesisSP That there lies the difference between showing and telling. FF15 tells us lots, but shows us almost nothing. I'm glad it got completed and released because 10 years of development was crazy. They need to utilize better writers and scenario developers. But I am curious what FF13 VS would have looked like by comparison.
I remember playing half of the game expecting to reach her asap and another half expecting her to show up somehow. In the end I finished the game with "WTF have I been doing" and never touched it again.
@@thoraero they tried to make it appeal to everyone but in reality it wasn't for anyone.
The real romance in FFXV was Noctis and his bros. That last scene in the credits when they had their last camp and Noctis knew, that that would be the last time for them to hang out togheter and he started crying...damn, that one hit really hard.
Anna Sahlstrom It was a road trip between friends- meant to be his last hurray before marriage. An extended bachelor party. -_- And here you are sounding like an sjw. Females are still badass in the story but I think you forget these guys are also his body guards- or would you want a woman to hold a position where they might see there charge in less than decent or possibly have a prince abuse authority to order her to strip or something etc.
-_- It makes sense within the context of the story that the main party are men. And lunafreya acts as she does out of her sense of duty and because she thinks she has no choice but to go ahead of him so he knows where to go- which beautifully illustrates how much she doesn't rely on him or expect to be able to, and in most political matches this would be about the size of things but he's not looking to use her and several times they try to find her to protect her. They don't even know one another well enough for him to be aware she can take care of herself too.
All this to analyze and you decide to focus on gender. -_- Diversity for the sake thereof makes no sense and would not have made sense in this story.
I think the point was that they weren't trying.
Call it a Bromance... Lol
Pretty much; no surprises that most of the artwork about the game is always his guards not even Noctis or Luna, they are charismatic and you really like them.
Bromance wins all.
+AuroraLalune Wtf!? Even if his friend were female it wouldn't change a thing! I'm no sjw, I just think that FFXV nailed Noctis' and his bodyguard's friendship! And that really showed in that one last scene, were they almost managed to make me cry! Really I don't give a fuck about their gender. This was a bromance and nothing more. That's what I meant by 'romance', which you took waaay to literally..
I love how the game allows you to go on a date with a fifteen year old girl but not with your fiance.
that was the point... the guy had no dick... that why he can not smash every girl along the way
I was so creeped out by that child flirting with an older engaged man, never mind what the public scandal would do to a king’s personal reputation. Just... why?
@@hanb2499 Japan... just Japan.
@@hanb2499 cuz your cultural standards do not conform to every other culture or fantasy. It was fine as it was.
@@hanb2499 Iris and noctis are like 4 or 5 years apart in age, and they also have some prior history together when Noctis saved her when they were younger. She knows that Noctis is not going to pick her but she still has the seeds of feelings for him
Game: What photo will you give to Lunafreya?
Me: *Picks a shot I got of gladio shirtless.*
Ulquiorra859 MOOD
Me: photo of better girls
NTR is your favorite genre
BAHAHA 😂
My game got a weird pic that was literally just a bush and thats what i picked.
Noctis has more chemistry with his fishing pole than Luna. No romance detected.
xD
Maybe he is just more interested in grabbing rods, if you know what i mean!
@Noble Phantazm Come on man, calm down and let me tell you this, I agree that FFXV was a story about duty and brotherhood but even that, its story still sound stupid. I mean come on guy, you will not go to die willingly just because everyone said that your destiny is die to save the world without explanations, and ok, I agree again that if you play all DLC then you can sympathize with Gladiolus, Prompto and Ignis, but even then, motivation of Noctis sound even more stupid because all sacrifices everybody pay for only to complete the plan of a domineering god, and what is the prize? Get married with a fiancée look more like a brother in arms that I only meet 2 times whole my life in the afterlife world? And you said that I don't even have right to know why I love her ??? Come on, you write a story but it don't make me understand the logic of your story, then you're fail in role of a writer.
@Noble Phantazm then they should not even include luna in the game.
@@azmirjohari609 the truth is Lunafreya has very big role in Bahamut plan and then will help Noctis realize the truth. She was part of an unimaginable plot twist, not only to die like in main game, but ones only play the main game like Mr alpha Noble here will not know about it, and then running around and talking about duty, obligation and friendship. For real, if only to show Noctis: "There are more important things than a romance between two people." in hard way, they should kill Prompto instead.
When the main character has more of a relationship with a dlc character than his actual love interest.
Emiya Shirou Not even really DLC it’s just a collab.
Hell, he even had better interactions with Jared... JARED
@@ThatBeingCed
Who the fuck is Jared?
@@agravain9006 Some old guy that hung out with Iris and that figurine kid for about 3 minutes before getting killed. There's really only 1 scene where Jared and Noctis meet
All the comments about Jared keep making that damn jingle from the commercials play in my head. I agree though, at least Jared actually talked to Noct and the bros.
I’m so happy someone else sees the Tidus and Yuna laughing scene part of the love story! I love it because they are, as you said, bonding.
Yuna and Tidus's "love story" was just teenage puppy love. Tidus I don't think really started to care about Yuna as more than just a friend until after he found out she would die after the final summoning.
@@LordMalice6d9 yeah, it is a childish romance. They are just teenagers who are just saving the world. And yeah, there were moments when he saw her beauty. But doesn’t friendship make the best relationship in stories? When he realized that she had to die he saw the world without her and saw he couldn’t live without her. I may be a little bit in love with this game (my third favorite Final Fantasy game), but it was my first game I got as my very own. I saw all the trouble Tidus goes though, I hated my mother like he did for his dad. And it made me realize that hate only come from love. He had to learn so much about feelings for his dad that was kinda a bully and a loving father in his own way. But that’s only my Theory that I came up at 10. I may still have nostalgia googles, and this makes me want to play ffx again lol.
@@LordMalice6d9 You may want to check if you have a romantic bone in your body. I think you may be lacking in that department. Yuna and Tidus are in a world where most of the people are younger people because everyone else was killed by Sin. Considering that everyone has a chance of dying at any time in a world like this it likely heightens everything and puts pressure on people to just get together. While there is an aspect of that early puppy love in it there was also a real connection between the two and their scene together lead quite naturally to the kissing part of it. Certainly the fact that Tidus dies in the end cuts it short which is what prompted Yuna to say those words but that doesn't make their relationship any less real. If they had more time to develop it I'm sure it would have likely lead to marriage. But, ya know, that darn Sin and monsters killing people were important things to defeat and overcome. You'd think those would take priority. Hence the reason why Yuna was prepared to die from the beginning.
While the world cringed... while the world cringed.
Omg, yes thank you, i can see that ff10 had some problems, like the voice acting and some repetitive gameplay, but this scene does not fit in that category. It is actually one of my Favorite scenes in the game it really shows them caring for each other instead of them just saying, yeah i like you, or something
The relationship in FFXV that made me feel anything was the bond between the boys. When Luna died? Nothing. The campfire scene between the bros after the game where you tell them you love them and appreciate them? Fucking water works.
Bros before hoes lol
To be honest noctis and luna felt like good friends rather than lovers
Dwight Greene No, an example of a good friend would be Nocticis and Cid/Cidney. When Luna died, it didn’t even bothered me because her character was so under developed.
No. They didn't even feel like friends. They felt like nothing
I really feel the Luna was just like a big sister to Noct
Dexter Hernandez I would feel something if Luna felt more like an older sister to Noctis, but like Nick E said, they felt like nothing.
@@mrdude88 true, i even feel more attached to noct and prompto's bromance
The only good love story FFXV had was between Gladiolus and Cup Ramen
Ignis and his new RECIPEH
@@ch1pZz271 Promptly and his camera
Noctis and his fishing rod!
I'm not gay, but Ignis really turned my head
"There's no wrong way to love a chocobo".
How about just implying that Noct and Luna talk to each other on the phone and text each other by using party banter while walking around?
Something like this:
Prompto: "Why don't you let me see your phone when you text Luna. It's not fair!"
Noct: "Would you believe me if I told you I'm actually talking to a magical fox?"
Prompto: "No, no I wouldn't. One day I will get a peek at what you two lovebirds are doing and there's nothing you can do about it!"
Gladio: "Saw you leave the camp last night with your phone. It's nice and all to talk to your bride-to-be, but don't walk so far off that I can't see you anymore, OK?"
Noct: "It's alright. I can take care of myself."
Ignis: "Could I offer you a piece of advise, Noct? Phone light isn't helpful for a good night's rest. If you could postpone your chats until the morning, you wouldn't be so slow to get up."
Noct: "I doubt that the 5 minute talk with Luna is the reason I'm not a morning person."
Gladio: "At least you could try."
Party banter is easy to implement and a great tool for fleshing out characters. You don't need additional animations and cutscenes. It would just recontextualise the ones that already exist.
Dude right? I as the game went on wondered why they never really even mentioned her. They talk about everything else, about noodles, about how stuff looks, but not his future wife/dead fiance
@Ocean Blue Now if only we had more of that kind of dialogue. Like OP said, we don't need anything *too* much, just enough dialogue within the party mentioning Luna (and more than the missions' dialogue). That way, their relationship seems just a little bit more than what the game ultimately gave us.
@Ocean Blue And FFXV shows us once again, the real romance is with the boys 😂😂
wait that genuinely made me happy seeing that, and that wasn't even from the game. LOL
@Ocean Blue Well thats sad, since the combat is god awful.
The thing I hate the most is how Noctis constantly says he doesn't want Luna to even move in with him after the wedding. He says he hasn't thought about it and doesn't want it in the little podcast/radio show. He says it in the main game, "There's no need to rush to happily ever after!" when it's mentioned she might move in with him. He objects to the idea that he might have to spend time with her as a married man in the Pocket edition. Then he spends zero time with her, she dies, and it's suddenly true love? There's nothing that makes me believe Noctis loves her. Not when he keeps saying how he doesn't even want to be with her after the wedding.
Exactly. It just feels like a marriage of duty than one of love
Cried my eyes out when I finished FFX
Vs.
Not a single shit was given when Luna kicked it.
I completely agree with you. There is no romance in FFXV. I wish they kept the plot with Stella.
The issue isn't that the changed the characteristics of the love interest. FF13 Versus doesn't really exist beyond raw concept for us to judge. The issue is Luna's implementation in the story. We don't actually see her relationship with Noctis depicted onscreen in any meaningful way, so it is hard to care about it. I really do like Night Sky Prince's idea of having Luna text/call/voice chat you throughout the adventure. That combined with some better flashback scenes (where they aren't just talking about the plot) could have given Luna's eventual fate more impact. Because as it stood, I felt bad for Noctis. But I didn't really care about Lunafreya herself.
They totally could have made Stella have a stronger connection to Niflheim--i.e. female clone/magitek, daughter/granddaughter of Iedolas (how old WAS that old fart, anyway?!), adopted-slash-manipulated daughter of Ardyn, etc.--and still had her be an enemy.
Or they could make Lunoct purely political and give noct some real love interest in his journey. I mean Prompt got Cindy, Ignis got Aranea, Gladio has his Cup Noodles (or the frog woman). That lefts us with Iris but well then come Sarah.
When the other said that Luna is disposable i tend to disagree because of Leviathan. But then i realized Leviathan itself is a total douche and ultimately useless. I mean we didn't have Ifrit's blessing but still kicks ass. Might as well make Leviathan a complete enemy and I'm sure it'll not change the outcome (power wise. Will still have to sacrifice himself to defeat ardyn)
Baconpancakes Their was no plot with Stella and you know it, cuz you have never seen it. Look up the truth about versus 13, it never made it past a semi playable demo, do you think they really had personalities for these characters, no. All other characters but the guys and noctis should have been taken out and Tabata should have done his own thing. Nomura ruined FFXV.
I don't get it. I felt the romance was very heavy but never forced. It was always an implication and up to the player to make sense of it. Tbh I get irritated when critics fail to notice something a film doesn't explicitly shove into their consciousness.
I was both sad and frustrated about how almost no emotional connection is shown between them. Heck; when Noctis cries over Luna dying, it could easily be interpreted as feelings of guilt from her dying rather than from losing the one you love.
It actually seems more out of guilt since it felt like Noctis didn't really care for the wedding or see Luna in a romantic sense until after she died.
Ravus’ emotional response to Luna’s death in Ep. Ignis is a million years better
@@jonnyrawket8158 100% thisssss. Ravus now him loving and being devastated by her death I believe. Noctis's voice actor performed the scene well on the train it just wasn't earned for it to mean anything. If I hadn't watched Kingsglaive and known Luna from that I would've been completely indifferent.
Noctis' true waifu was gladio sister...can't remember her name...they had chemistry, lol
@@vkak1 Iris, and yeah I prefer her too.
The cellphone points were a bigger issue for me than their relationship.
I could accept that they were both bound by duty, Luna particularly was very devoted to her role. Noctis I saw as younger and probably idealized the thought of Luna (an older girl) and was glad to accept his arranged marriage. Overtime he very likely built her up in his mind (put her on a pedestal) and her basically being a celebrity Oracle probably reinforced his idealization. The scene where he broke down crying on the train I took as he had just lost all constants in his life (besides his 3 guys). His city and his father were stripped away, he was banking non getting to Luna to feel normalized somehow, and now that was stripped away too. All that was left was his duty as King and his 3 friends (which is why the bromance in the story is so well done, lifting up Luna's role could of potentially stunted that). I actually really like the idea that Noctis was able to mature for ten years, and literally become "The man he always wanted to be" for Luna, and reunite in the afterlife, with her now hypothetically/physiologically 6 years younger instead. And she got to see the boy she helped guide become a King and they fulfilled their duty together. Bonded by something that Cindy or Iris couldn't relate with the same way. A destiny they couldn't avoid. I think that was their romance's purpose. Similar to Two celebrities (or royalty more accurately) being together because they can relate in a different way, than a celebrity can connect with a fan/groupie in most cases.
However the stupid cellphone broke any continuity that game had. So many things could have been solved by cellphone, it was very immersion breaking that he didn't call pretty much anyone, just Cor a few times. Why couldn't they text Prompto when he fell off the train? "Yo sorry dude, Ardyn has illusion magic, who knew! We're coming to get you." Cellphone should not have been in the game how they did it.
And Noctis should have found out by a call about the invasion, not Ignis reading a newspaper......
I feel like even FFVIII treated having "modern" technology better on its own way. Having achieved long-distance communication but being nulled by radio interference, leaving only the wired connections working (that were not that high in number because of having achieved previously a wireless network).
I like your description of their relationship so much because it corresponds completely with how I perceived it! I never saw them as more than two people who had a spiritual duty they both engaged in. Might be not the majority’s cup of tea, and could have executed more gracefully but it worked for me. And the cellphone clearly breaks the immersive experience
To be honest, I never considered FFXV a love story, because I didn't really get the idea that Noctis was "in love" with Luna. I think there was a point early in the game where Gladio makes a quip about bringing Noctis to his new bride and Noct just awkwardly laughed along, not entirely enthused with the prospect. I got more of a sense that Noct was simply interested in seeing an old friend who he stayed in touch with for years, and while meeting again under the prospect of _arranged marriage_ was uncomfortable for him, he'd just bite the bullet as a royal. As for Ardyn arranging the marriage... well, his influence spread with the Starscourge and he was purely motivated by wanting to make Noctis suffer, so arranging a reunion only for her to die in front of Noct would have killed two birds with one stone.
I won't fault Noctis for taking Luna's death hard, though. As someone who lives in the Internet age, I have close friends who I've *never* met before, many of whom I've talked to for only a few months, who I'd be devastated by the loss of and _have_ been devastated by losing; it's not about the time investment or activity, it's about mutual trust and shared experiences, which can be built purely on a foundation of text communication. While their relationship is mostly offscreen, the two have been pen pals for half of their lives, and have very few other friends owing to their royal circumstances.
In that decade Noctis went through puberty and combat training and arguments with his father/friends and royal accolades and losses, and through it all he could always vent to Luna, and have her mourn and celebrate with him just as if she was right behind him. Divulging secrets to her he was too scared to tell the people closest to him, workshopping plans with her on surprises for the same people, etc. The way his face lights up when he gets her letters, you know their communications have been the highlight of his week or month or year many a time. It's not hard to consider someone like that the sibling you never had, and love them as if they were.
Now watch as the realization sets in, that he will *never* receive another letter from her. He didn't need to be *in* love with her to be devastated by the loss of someone he loved.
While everything you said is true - the game also never quite depicts them communicating to each other frequently and more so of assumptions you’re making. All they had to do was put in more scenes of the two reading each other’s letters, laughing, crying, etc.
@Casual Scum the full dlc would just retcon the ending which kinda undermines the bromance. They just get a happy ending.
"you expect me to care about her don't you game?" I though to myself at the moment she was stabbed...
I think everyone trolled the last scene with a nonsense photo choose. Like giving Luna a photo from Cindi's boobs.
karura0511 i picked a really pretty picture of me and the bro’s 😭 I was heartbroken to leave them behind
Aerith?
lmao They Tried to recreate the "Emotional Suspsense of Aeris/aerith. from FF7 They failed and made a bad story/game for the past 2 Titles *Final Fantasy 13, Even tho I WAS A FAN of 13 And 15 I Can say they flopped Which is why they decided "its time for our Last trick.... 'lets bring back Final Fantasy 7' Lmao
Character without any screentime and development dies. Me: gorgeous scene, but can't feel anything for her
Luna had more chemistry with Nyx Ulric. They're on the same wavelength and probably even the same age and maturity level.
Patrick Dilla same thought for real tho
Nyx's 32 and Luna's 24 but yeah I too prefer Nyx and Luna together they had more chemistry
Well, they at least spent time together when they were past puberty. Luna is still mostly just a bland plot device to make Nyx be at certain points during Kingsglaive, but at least they spent time together. And Nyx wasn't saying he didn't want Luna anywhere near him like Noctis does.
@@eron kun When you're driving to Gauldin Quay the first time, the bros'll ask Noctis about his wedding and about Luna moving to Lucis to be with him. He replies with "No need to rush to happily ever after," in response to the idea his wife might actually live with him. If you read the transcript of the podcast, this matches with what he says when Ignis comments about Luna moving in with him where he says that he didn't even think about her living with him. In the pocket edition (maybe in the main game too, not sure what was added in with the Royal Edition) Noctis will balk at the idea he'll have to stop spending so much time with his friends in favor of spending time with Luna once they're married. He makes a lot more comments (or refusals to talk about his upcoming marriage) during the game if you drive around. None of which are positive in nature towards the wedding or being married to Luna except in the context of it bringing peace or bringing hope to people. If you listen, even when Prompto gushes about Luna, Noctis doesn't even respond most of the time. Then Luna dies, and Noctis is suddenly ~desperately in love~ with her. The game heavily invests in a reluctant to be married Noctis with no relationship building to change his viewpoint.
@Ocean Blue noct is 20 luna is 24 it's written on their wikis and literally everywhere else
FFX always and forever will be my favorite Final fantasy EVER. Sad to believe we might never have another gem in quality and storytelling like FFX was. I know that many laughed at me for enjoying FF10 more than ff7 or any other in the franchise. I felt that they didn't comprehend how deep and well crafted the story, the characters and the whole game itself was. I mean, the religious background and the constant dilemma that everyone tried to suppress through the whole game, and then it jumps in your face that you are bringing the woman you love to her death?! It was tragic! I cried, cried my eyes to sleep after seeing Tidus dying and Yuna telling him "I love you" My heart broke in thousand of pieces because the man had gone the distance to save her and despite knowing that he would be the one to die...and all of that because he loved her. Sacrificing himself and yet?! he smiled... because he was happy that he saved her.
They created even a whole language! Like hell! this game had way more to look for than FF7 which everyone seems to be so fixated about. FFX for me is a masterpiece, it made me cry, laugh and to be honestly fair? it ruined also how I vision or hope love stories would be represented---and you did an amazing job in explaining why FFX indeed deserve way more credit than what most players give's it.
well FFX main theme is on romance. FF7 is the mystery of Cloud.
I agree with u completely...
Ten and SIX were highlights in the series and i will fight anyone who says otherwise
THANK YOU! THIS!
It had the most rage inducing mini games I’ve ever done though. Never getting tidus or wakka’s celestial weapons...
I couldn't stop crying at the end of FFX... I'm still so thankful they made FFX-2 cause d@mn i was NOT ok with Yuna and Tidus not having a happy ending!! No other game romance has make me feel even close to what i felt for this couple!
Yep. Never felt any romance in FFXV. 😑
But Jared and Talbott ?
there was no romance in FFXV and it wasn't suppose to be a love story
Batman had a girlfriend in every batman movie, those movies are romance movies or love stories lmao, Final Fantasy X core plot is a love story, Final Fantasy 8 core plot revolves around a love story, those are the only games where the central story was a love story in the series
Island Star TV The whole reason you were looking for Luna is because she’s your fiancé. You were going to find her and marry her, but their interaction hardly show that. Hell, even FFVII, where it’s not a love story, had a better relationship interaction between Arieth and Cloud and then Cloud and Tifa.
Never felt anything in FFXV👀
huh, Luna's purpose was top give Noctis the ring and die, they both were already fated to die tragic deaths. Luna was always going to die summoning the levithan which is why Ravus was mad because he felt Noctis wasn't man enough to live up to his role as king and that Luna was wasting her life did you pay attention to anything in the game. When Regis sent Noctis off at the beginning he wanted Noctis to have one wedding day as enjoyable experience because he knew he was fated to die purging the world of the daemons. It was bittersweet because Noctis and Luna would never be able to enjoy lives together because they were both fate to sacrifice themselves to save the world, Noctis never even meets Luna while we play she dies before he can even interact with her so what in the world makes you think their relationship is a focal part of the story or the game, it's not. The game is about Noctis and his buddies finding the strength to sacrifice and courage to go through with what is basically a suicide mission.
Also Final Fantasy VII isn't a love story, because Cloud had to love interest doesn't change the fact, the game's central plot doesn't revolve around their romance.
Yep Luna felt like an older sister rather than a lover. I still believe Verses 13 story would of been great and it seem Darker too... man I wish we got Verses 13
Yeah, to this day I honestly have no clue as to why they would write out what seemed to be a great lead female character, and throw away a story that was not only darker, but it also made you feel that no matter what you did, there was no way you were getting a happy ending out of it.
Some people can hate FFX and its voice acting as much as they want, but I found Tidus' and Yuna's romance to be very heartwarming and genuinely sweet.
I'd also argue the awkward talk on the boat ride to Kilika is exactly how teenagers who are starting to crush on each other act toward each other. Or how Yuna suggests to Tidus when he's feeling down after the Kilika Temple to 'just scream' and he takes her advice, startling the rest of the party. Even early on it's obvious these two have stellar chemistry.
Oh, and I agree that Tidus' and Yuna's love story is by far the best-written romance at the entire series to date.
The main focus of the game was bromance not romance . That's why they barely had time together. You notice anytime they interact with a female it's short af? It's a sausage party that's why. No girls allowed lol
Then why give Noctis a love interest in the first place?
@@myeeeeeh so he won't seem gay lol
Wrong. They baraly had time together because it is an unfinished game. The game lacks development in everything except the bromance, and that clearly wasn't the intention or the ideal situation.
FFXV is fundamentally flawed, and the only thing it succeed was the bromance, and even in that it wasn't as good as it could be. For instance, the DLC content about them should have beem in the main game.
@@Rivershield I'm seriously trolling guys lol
I was disappointed in the lack of female characters in FF XV but you know what, I can respect a story focused on a group of dudes just being friends and sometimes getting queer-coded so that fangirls can write out-of-proportion fanfiction about them.
Too bad if there's a story focused on a group of girls gamers will automatically think the game is "for girls" but whatever. Maybe someday we will get a good game from a Triple A company featuring more than one woman in a lead role.
Lunafreya isn't a character, she's a plot device.
FF6 showing Cyan crying over the dead body of his wife and son showed more chemistry than this couple. We didn't even see them interact with each other until after the phantom train scene, she only says "My love, you made me so happy. Don't forget me." and it still broke my heart because these pixelated couple sold their relationship the moment he saw her. The interaction between Lunafreya and Noctis is just not anything. Noctis shows little to no emotion regarding Lunafreya.
Zell and Library Girl with Pigtail had more development than Noctis and Luna.
That complete kiss scenes from FFX was very well executed... *tries not to cry*
I'm crying... I'm crying!!!!
@@melancholycollie1466 I thought the "love story" of FFX was cheddar cheesy! It was just puppy dog love, and they were both teenagers, one very immature too.
i quit the game before that part because of the stupid jecht boss
@@LordMalice6d9 Well aren't you the edgelord? Good on you, kiddo. Don't worry, maybe one day you'll grow up.
@@palladiamorsdeus Except nothing he said was edgy at all, nor incorrect.
The writing in X is just awful, and the romance is forced and some of the worst in FF. At least you can understand why Luna and Noct have a connection, even if they stumbled in showing it. (And even if three far superior choices are RIGHT THERE)
Even Squall and Rinoa build a connection. The writers just decide Yuna loves Tidus, and that Tidus is just chasing ass.
Hell, at no point does the game even imply anyone knows his name. It's never spoken, even in the non-voice acted bits.
Pretty spot on breakdown, actually. You really brought up a good point with how cellphone conversations could have made the relationship better. I never really considered it, but there was a lot of lost potential there.
Its sad too cause the cellphone could’ve fixed the issue almost entirely. It would’ve made dying when you’ve finally met her actually heartbreaking.
Didn't tabata explain in an Active Time Report that only Lucis has cellphones, using a cellphone to contact noctis would be dangerous because Luna was always under imperial watch.
@@KingBendu yet a magic dog is okay to communicate. Even using a cellphone that she was able to grab for just a moment to warn him of danger or something (or just because she wanted to hear him bc she loves him) and then Noctis changing the subject to how she is or where would have been brilliant. Especially if the conversation was abruptly interrupted (and him calling the number with no responses too, getting frustated or even calling back every once in a while a suddenly somebody answering even if it is not luna).
@@rad2games889 Even if they did it with the dog, they could have done something similar. Could have sent longer or even more frequent texts, even the fotos idea, it is shown that they send an image with every message.
Imagine one day, Noct randomly asks for Prompto's camera and start sending Lunas selfies, then she starts doing the same!
Pretty sure those two will be doing phone sex if they have cellphone access, or send naked pictures of each other. They're young and in love, right?
Fuck yeah man. Great analysis.
FFX still resonates with me to this day. (We don't speak of the FFX 2.5 novel)
Even Final Fantasy VII with all of it's complex love story between Cloud x Tifa or Aerith x Cloud have a more interesting dinamic than and meaning than any of Noctis x Luna scenes.
Luna was a classic women in a refrigerator. On the other hand, Yuna is Tidus’s partner and just as pivotal to the story :D
I feel like the relationship with Noctis and Luna could have worked if it just stayed an arranged marriage with no love between them. But no the game had to pull off some "they're in love" bs.
AngelFromTheNightmare agreeed
My problem is that Luna had literally only a few minutes of screen time in the entire game and yet she was given this big dramatic death scene as if we were supposed to be invested or sad about it. The lack of character they gave her was extremely disappointing. I thought we were past the point of having thrown-in female characters that have no personality or development.
Also if any of you wanna use the Kingsglaive movie to argue my point, please don't. It was sloppy for them to rely on a movie where she was voiced by a completely different person to "flesh out" her character. They should have done that in the game and, as it stands, Luna can be replaced by a wooden plank and it would make no difference in the story. She was shown for all of 10 minutes in this 60-80 hour game.
If I’m being honest, I felt more the emotional connection Noctis had with his bros than Lunafreya. Don’t get me wrong, the scene where Luna died is a beautiful one, and it made me sad, but what REALLY got me was after the fact, when Noctis’ friends had to see him go through this loss and having Ignis severely wounded by the battle with Leviathan. The interactions between them at that moment really had emotional weight to them. You could feel those broken bounds. And like the video said too, that extended patch scene really hit hard too, but more in the “you feel bad because Noctis is sad” type of way. And that final campfire scene too... :’(
Yo I got chills just seeing the FFX clips, I love that game so much. The story was beautifully complex. The relationships between the characters were so well developed. When the game ended, I kept wanting more.
LOL and in FFX-2 they ruined it all.
@@donaldstrump911 I liked FFX-2's gameplay and job system however. Reminded me of FFV.
I was literally screaming "EXACTLY!" throughout this whole video
Same
finally someone using literally right
Zero It's cuz you and the video creator doing know the full story, Luna was never even meant to be in the game but fans would have freaked out if she wasn't. Stella never had a personality and versus 13 was barely even started before they switched to ffxv, this video creator hasn't done much research and it's pretty sad. Nomura even stated it was his fault ffxv sucked, he created the characters and the trailer and then dropped the project on Tabata and made him start from scratch, on!y he had to use all Nomuras trailer characters.
Luna and Noctis relate with each other for being in a hierarchy of royalty. They can relate with each other. Their marriage isn't romantic, it's political.
personally i found the relation between Squall and Rinoa very interesting, especially cause their relation also was difficult since they had various arguements along the plot and still those cheesy romantic scenes :D
FFVIII Romance is the Female who made the first move
Yeah, them and Garnet and Zidane are IMO top tier Final Fantasy couples.
Say what you want about FFVIII romance, at least S&R interacted and were there for each other even then Squall was a kinda difficult fella.
Agreed. Squall/Rinoa, along with Zidane/Garnet, were the best couples in the series.
Rinoa says "look in to my eyes,You are going to like me".in our country girls like those are cheap,it's the boys are always making the first move.Not the Girls.Pretty and Beautiful girls asking you first?it's and illusion man,I've been ask by a girl,Ugly ones but not beautiful ean't my type.
They should have had a different backstory: Luna and Noct meet when they were kids and they continue to meet/travel/dating until they are teens. They become a couple and until this point Niflheim did not conquer Tenebrea. Noct and Ravus actually become friends, ravus being like an older brother. Luna and Noct want to marry when they turn 18 (the are about the same age) and then Tenebrae gets conquered. Noctis and Luna get seperated for a few years but they were already in love and planing the wedding. Also it would deepen the relationship with Noctis and Ravus, making Ravus hate more believable, because he is angry, that no one helped them. And it would give the chocobros the chance to already know Luna and Ravus, deepen their bond.
The game could have even started with a little adventure with the chocobros, Luna and Ravus as one big party, fighting on a adventure-vacation together, beings friends. As a tutorial. Imagine what impact it would have if this group gets seperated for years, Luna dying and Ravus disapointed in everyone. What it would mean that Luna and Noct finally get married after loosing each other for years. What it would mean for ALL OF THEM when Luna, Ravus and Noct die. That would have been a far better story imo.
I know this is crazy late but I really love this idea. I'm someone who is still ok with 15's love story. I absolutely agree that it could have been better but I still was heartbroken when she died and thought that her love for her role to Noct and the world in general was well portrayed and they were pushing the whole soul mates thing. The phone being brought up as not eing used just strikes me as her not wanting the empire to pin down where Noctis is at all times. Yes Ardyn knows but we learn he's not in league with the empire so much as just using them and he really doesnt want the Empire to kill Noct, he wants his battle with Noct. Anyways though I love your idea. I think it would have made the game perfect especially them all being friends and growing up together. It absolutely would have had way more gravity to her death and even the horrible fate Ravus endured.
the original concept with stellar sounds so interesting, i wish they would have gone with that. Also I will always love yuna and tidus
Thank you for acknowledging the real meaning of the laughing scene in FFX. It annoys me to no end that people write that off as bad english voice acting when 1. It was just as cringey in the Japanese version and 2. They laugh normally afterwards realising how stupid they sounded. It was such a heartwarming scene and it was meant to be awkward
Noctis and Luna deserved a far better love story. If they truly were in love then your suggestions to use smartphones would've made far more sense. Hell, using the phone period would've made more sense. Kingsglaive sets it up that Luna is going to reunite almost immediatley with Noctis, but then the game is like "Nah, brah."
Now if they weren't in love but doing things out of a sense of royal duty then that would've been fine too. But the fact that they went down this "they're in love, but we're never going to show any bonding until they're in the afterlife" bit really took what could've been a great love story and turned it into pure garbage.
I think they just think they're supposed to be in love
They just don't know any other way, that what everyone told them
I agree, but the game does a really poor job at showing that. The only time we see Noctis showing any feelings for Luna is when he sees the wedding dress and when she dies. Whereas for Luna, it isn't clear if she loved him at all. If the goal was to show that they don't know how show they care about each other then that was executed very poorly.
@Michael Angelo Agreeing with you. The fact that Luna and Noctis communicate through "Dog Twitter" and not phones is pathetic when every other minor character is contacting Noctis via phone and the lands those minor characters live in is supposedly "occupied by Niflheim". And Luna never says a word about anything that would help Noct to go forward, and instead sends him cryptic one-liners as if everything is perfectly okay even though Insomnia got blown to bits.
Somehow it never occurs to the writers that even people who know each other via handwritten text can actually send each other pages upon pages of details about themselves. Yet over twelve years, these two are STILL using the same exact notebook that they first started with even though Umbra can travel through time and space, meaning there's no excuse of "it takes a while for the book to get to the other person". They could have shown a scene in Brotherhood where Noctis opens up a drawer and there are a bunch of notebooks from correspondence with Luna. NOPE. Just the one book, not even halfway filled. And Ignis needs to REMIND him to write in it.
There's even the blatant detail that Luna was aware of both hers and Noctis's fates. She knew she had to die and pay the price of the Covenant, and that Noctis himself would need to lose ten years of his life and then also die to wipe out the Scourge as part of his royal duty. She never told him or allowed him to make a choice about it. Then her ghost is dangled in front of him to guilt trip him into continuing his quest when he still doesn't know he's meant to die. Luna's actions are actually quite flawed and suggest a less-than-pure characterization.
The love story is garbage because they insisted on even having one. If Luna were actually presented to us as a morally grey character who really doesn't care about love nor the emotional fallout of her decisions, coldly prioritizing "the greater good" "the good of the world" over personal connections, this would be a refreshing take on what we would expect to be a love story. Instead they pushed Luna as a Purity Sue and said "These characters are in love because we said so even though they do absolute fuck all to know each other as people".
ultimamage3 Agreed
ultimamage3 i like this better and i would take the shenanigans in the omen trailer to tie it in too (i dunno how lol). The fight looked cool.
I'm a little late to watching this video lol, but wanted to offer an interesting fact. In the original ffx Japanese version Yuna does not say 'I love you'. She says 'Thank you'. When translating it to English it was changed to 'I love you' to give it more emotion. Best thing they could have done! That scene put me in tears.
Your idea about the Luna Calls and texts made me infinitely appreciate their romance way more than the game itself ever did. What a simple yet fantastic idea
Like, I connected way more to Para medic in Metal gear Solid 3 than I ever did to Luna the entire run time of FF 15
Learn how relationships works and presented in a game
Lunafreya is an afterthought of stella....the entire game is an afterthought
Kevin Vu Maybe my first video will be ffxv Rant even though it’s my favorite game.
you cant tell that to a ffxv fan or they will kill you
comparing a game scrubs to FFX is so insulting
xMysticxbutterflyAMV's lol what?
you heard me
ffxv is my favorite game but the romance and exta dlc are retarded
You really nailed this analysis. I couldn't quite place WHY I wasn't moved by Noct and Luna's relationship, but you summed it up perfectly. It's such a shame that the XV universe, which has so many elements to it, fails so spectacularly at one of the core elements of the overall story.
I literally shouted "YES, THANK YOU" when you made the comment about how you can't be sad that Lunafreya died, and that it just sucked seeing noctis hurt. That's a major gripe of mine with the game. Excellent video as always, this sums up my thoughts pretty well actually.
The only relationship that resonated with me in ffxv was between the four party members. It may have been in part because I played through it the first time with my brother in law, but bro bonding was a major theme of the game for me
The only love lement in FFXV was Ignis' sexy cooking.
COULDNT AGREE MORE, COMRADE
I felt more romance between Noctis and Prompto than Noctis and Lunafreya
true
So true.
t h a n k y o u
That motel scene on the roof you have with him to get a filter hits hard
Lol
Literally the regalia and noctis had a more believable romance.
When Ashe and Rassler from FFXII, one of which *Dies in the opening cut scene* Gets a better story and more believable romance than your titular character and his betrothed, you're... you're doin' something wrong.
Like, They only barely touched on Ashe's relationship with him, but just the few cut scenes with him and his 'ghost' showing up, you could tell she loved him and he loved her. So you don't really have an excuse this time, Square Enix, you've done more with less before this. DX
Rassler dying destroyed me for some reason
Ashe and Rassler were childhood friends and sort of knew they were going to be married at some point since all of Ashe's brothers died in war (stupid of them to send every male heir to war) They became friendly with one another through the years and Rassler even helped her out of some bad royal bullshit.
@@Oshidorinohina lol the start of your sentence is basically the same as in XV...
"Ashe and Rassler were childhood friends and sort of knew they were going to be married at some point"
"Noctis and Luna were childhood friends and sort of knew they were going to be married at some point"
I don't even remember what it was i posted. But you said it yourself "the few cut scenes with him and his 'ghost' showing up, you could tell she loved him and he loved her." In XV you see them in the after life kiss and it's like what? when did they ever like one another? It was clearly an afterthought after the original concept changed from her being in love with him and still having to fight him when it was 13 versus. The difference between the two games is in regards to romance, is one makes it very clear that Ashe and Rassler are in love while and doesn't have to show long romantic scenes because it's written well. The longing from Ashe is prevalent throughout due to the language Ashe uses when talking about her dead husband and is pretty cut and dry that she misses him. XV doesn't do any of that. There's no indication a relationship exists beyond platonic arranged marriage with the two characters in XV. Lunafreya is a weak character and is not crucial she's written poorly and only used as a crutch to further advance the main hero's story. You could remove her from the story replace her with a rock (since she doesn't do much) and it would remain largely unchanged.
@@Oshidorinohina lol the thought of noctis getting betrothed to a rock just cracks me up lol
Personally, I think Zidane and Garnet/Dagger from FFIX conveyed one of the best and most engaging love stories I've seen in gaming. The way they conversed, joked, teased, argued, and confided with each other throughout the story felt very human, and was authentic enough that you could believe that they did grow to fall in love with each other.
Noctis and Lunafreya was the complete opposite. Their love for each other just didn't feel genuine whatsoever. There was no chemistry between them, and there was literally nothing that they had experienced together that convinced me that they were truly in love. If anything, their love felt more like an obligation to their people and to their ancestors, rather than of their own personal choice and desire to explore and experience their feelings for one and another.
FINALLY someone talked about them, everyone always talk abou Tidus and Yuna... _they're not the only FF couple existing_
I actually didn’t realise it was an actual love story till like the final scene. In which I was terribly confused as I didn’t feel any sort of love. I felt they were affectionate to each other like old friends but not love. I haven’t seen any extra scenes or dlc but I have no intention of revisiting the game
The way you dismantled the romance in both games was brilliant. I agreed with every point. FFX was a masterpiece in storytelling and emotion especially the ending and I was not ready for it at that time. I will never forget that game.
15 on the other hand is very lame in its storytelling and investing you in their characters. I felt the exact same about luna and noctis and thought it was embarassing that a developer of tabatas stature thought we could believe in this romance and feel emotion when there was no connection given to the player. I think yiur suggestion about mobile phones was better than any idea tabata came up with
These two games are probably the polar opposites in terms of this
I like how all of this is set to the background of "Eyes on me". FF8 had a pretty cool way of telling its story as well, imo.
I love the idea of having phonecalls, texts, and pics from Lunafreya. It would have allowed not only Noctis to bond with her, but the player to fall for Lunafreya too.
Well, I didn't. It was like talking to an NPC. A boring one.
The idea gives off a lot of Mystic Messenger vibes which I think is pretty cool. However, I hope the texts and calls are actually normal and not just exposition.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought their age difference gave them a big sister, little brother dynamic when they were kids.
One of the big problems I had with this 'romance' was that Noctis and his male friends were fully fleshed out characters, yet the woman in this game are about as deep as a puddle, especially Luna. They are just lazily written stereotypes which is really unusual for the FF series which usually have interesting characters all round.
Luna was the pure, selfless, doomed Ingénue rather than a real woman, she was the 'perfect princess' to win or save so apparently she didn't need character or an interesting story of her own.
The difference with Yuna was that she wasn't just some girl for Tidus to love, she was a separate person with thoughts, feelings and drives all her own, she and Tidus were two complex, complete people falling in love together over time and shared experiences.
You honestly feel more for Prompto fledgling relationship with Cindy than for Noctis and Luna.
The problem is in how SE used Lunafreya more as a plot device to either unload exposition or provide plot fuel rather than being a predominant character with convincing convictions and beliefs.
YES! The whole Altissa and Leviathan fight could have been all about reconnecting with Luna again. Whether it is a date, political discussions and debates, or maybe the goddamn boss fight where Luna could have shown what a beast the king and oracle working together can become.
The city was so lacking in content that it would've been a nice transition into focusing on the plot after having explored so much. Which was a genuinely fun part of the game.
@TheAnimaAnimal Yeah, Altissa was the best opportunity to grow their relationship that, if you didn't watch the movie or anime, had almost no depth. Also avoiding the paparazzi would be one hell of a fun sidequest compared to the fetch ones actually offered there.
@@connor7924 I said as much to my friend but he responded with that we are just to accept their love, being childhood sweethearts and all that. Which I get, but unfortunately their romance meant a lot to the story. And for me, leaving it up to blind faith only damaged my satisfaction with the game. He also said that if we did go on dates or those kinds of things with Luna people would say: oh then she isn't doing anything important. Which I think is bullshit, they could have had political debates or help Luna in her duties as sidequests. I did not think Holly in Lestalum was any weaker, useless or less competent for needing help. Or Dave for that matter.
@TheAnimaAnimal I personally considered Lunafreya as a neglected secondary character rather than an interest of any sort, despite the culture of FFXV revolving entirely around her as a saviour or prophet to the people.
Final Fantasy Peasant even counted how many lines of dialogue Lunafreya shared with Noctis, and it summed up to about 25 (12 of which were flashbacks), which is less than the Terra DLC character's total lines (51). To make matters worse, there was only 1 line towards Noctis while he was alive but unconscious during the Leviathan battle, and 12 when she was a ghost. You literally don't talk to Lunafreya at all during the game. If I didn't know any better, I'd say she was a benched secondary character. Quest givers probably have more lines, to be honest.
ruclips.net/video/-J3h_XxH7i8/видео.html at : 1:31 3:14
So, yeah, she needed to be expanded upon a lot more for people to understand why there are romantic feelings between the two instead of saying 'they love each other, full stop'. Also, does she need to do anything important with Noctis? I would like it if she did something goofy with Noctis so it gives that sense of honesty and comfort between the two rather than them seeming like business partners. Adds a bit of humanity to the relationship.
@@connor7924 Yeah, it is sad that I know more about Ravus than Luna from just hanging around him in the Ignis episode. I feel the same need as you, because otherwise the whole wedding bit at the end (even the fucking game menu after you beat the game) becomes kinda empty even tho it is beautiful and symbolic.
My friend (who's my bf) told me that her coldness is about her being professional. Detaching herself from others. Which ok, but then I know the Oracle. Not Luna. My bf is super chill so he takes these things in stride and accepts them. But I need that shown validation to truly be convinced and moved. Beauty and symbolism alone won't cut it for me.
Oh yeah, the number of lines between them and their content were so lackluster. I get the whole 'not everything needs to be said' crowd but I don't think we ask for much?
Zidane and Dagger ✌
All hail Princess Garnet
Thief gets the girl (princess)!!
Exactly
They give me the goosies.. I loved FF9
A.K.A Sarah
Another relationship that doesn’t make sense: Elsa and Anna
We are supposed to believe that Anna has this strong bond to Elsa even though they grow up not talking to each other.
I dunno. At first I thought she loved the memory of Elsa and who she was to her. Then I thought maybe that helped propel her to have enough motivation to try to get to know the REAL Elsa, since it seemed important and they were the only family they had.
Maybe I project, though. I’ve been sick since I was 11, and my big brother (who was less mature partially due to not having to deal with being sick himself) often tried to spend time with me, but I’d spend on average a week in my room in the dark each time a migraine hit. I was scared to leave the house because I might have a back spasm that was occasionally so bad I’d vomit or black out, and at the very least hyperventilate because of the pain. All with less than a minute of warning going from normal to passed out.
I hated people realizing something was wrong with me, that I was different. Some of my peers thought I was faking it for attention. Some people tried to be “helpful,” and tried to call an ambulance, not sure what was going on with me. I became so scared to leave my house. I turned down driving lessons. What if I had a back attack and passed out before I could pull over? I could end up hurting someone, killing people!
I couldn’t really be around my family when I was in pain, for years. They read me so well, and at the smallest hitch in my breathing, me being less talkative, they’d instantly be on alert and ask what was up. Conversation stopped in its tracks, all eyes anxiously on me. I’d see a pained look in my Mom’s eyes; I inherited her illness and she feels responsible. My dad’s a doctor and he feels guilty that despite being a specialist in this area, modern medicine can’t cure me. My protective brother feels useless because he can’t protect me.
So I would go and be alone. I’d still suffer, but if they didn’t see me, they’d suffer less, so it was the better option.
It’s been 19 years. My brother still calls me and asks, hopefully, tentatively, if we can get together sometime this week, on the weekend. Any day I wake up and feel up to it, to call him. He takes me to doctor’s appointments (driving is still an issue) and will go on for days to our parents about how much fun it was to spend time with me. Just... going to and from the doctor, usually when I’m tired and don’t feel like being out at all, squinting trying to not get a migraine from the sunlight.
The point is, we’ve not been able to really invest much new capital into our relationship since we were kids. But back then, we were sidekicks. He was homeschooled and I soon became so sick that I couldn’t go physically, so we’d go to McDonald’s on occasion while everyone else was in school, and we’d just... talk. When he went to college, he didn’t want to leave me. I’d slog down and watch a half an hour of anime, usually forgetting what it was and rewatching. And after that, we really couldn’t add more quality time to things. He moved on and I was in stasis.
But if I ever need him, he is always there. If he thinks anyone has been unfair or has hurt me, he is ready to throw down. If he needs me, he knows I’ll find a way to get to him, and I’ll push myself past what is reasonable to help him, knowing I’ll pay for it later. It’s just... how we are. The roots go deep.
I feel like when you have a history with a sibling, your only sibling, and your past was really good, you want to either return to that, or at least get some of the normalcy you crave, ever since it was taken away from you. You miss being with them, and will put up with flaws that have gotten worse or sprung up since you last really interacted.
It’s obviously not...a one to one comparison. But I buy it completely, because I know in my situation, I identify with it. I’ve been both Anna and Elsa in different ways, and I’ve lived a version of the sibling dynamic.
I do hope if there’s any more material coming out, that they’d address expectation vs reality, that they ARE different than they were, than they’d imagined each other to be. That you feel frustrated but also guilty, because it’s unfair to compare someone to this imagined idealized version of them. Even knowing factually that it’s not fair doesn’t change how you feel emotionally, and that could scratch up the flawless varnish the characters and their relationship have.
Amara Jordan I respect you sharing your story and I can better understand that point of view from your side bc of it. And maybe thats what the creators were hoping to express in Frozen. For me, it was harder to believe that Anna would continue for 10 years or however long for memories from when she was 5. Especially when Elsa saying “Go away” and telling her with every interaction that she didnt want a relationship with her. You would be there as much as possible for your brother and he knows that. Anna never got that from Elsa. I was not a huge fan of Frozen and thought the sequel was just Anna chasing Elsa again, but Frozen probably could’ve been better if they spent a little more time showing their childhood to make Annas motivation a little more understandable. I hope your future is blessed and you can make new memories with those who care about you.
@@cinnamonbagel1230 All we get in Frozen is them at five and a montage of Elsa telling Anna to go away. Even if they were all the other had, the relationship is not developed enough for me to give a 💩. Anna hinges on their memories as children, but people change. After year and years of being rejected it makes zero sense for Anna to cling to Elsa. It would make more sense for her to try to find camaraderie amoung the many faceless servants that they live with but barely acknowledge their existence.
"Stay away from the summoner!" Ah, that random NPC. I can hear the voice and tone in my head.
Thank you! I cringe whenever I hear fanboys defend the "romance" or relationship between Noctis and Luna in FF15 and get mad at people for saying Luna is a flat, boring character (or blaming feminists for her lack of character). In the game, there wasn't a relationship to defend. FF10, on the other hand, was one of the few romantic relationships in ANY media I've come across that actually felt realistic and that I liked. And I'm aromantic, so that's a difficult feat. And I completely agree with the lost potential of using cellphones. The decission not to makes no sense.
I have to think feminism does have something to do with the way companies feel they can portray Male/female interactions.
I have always loved the romance in final fantasy but they just won’t do that anymore.
They won’t do it because they’d have to portray men into the strong white knight and women into the person whose heart is won. I can almost hear the complaints about women being more than just a romance fodder for the main character arch yadada.
This isn’t the only final fantasy that has little to no romance. Before this we had lightening and her sister who was supposed to been in love with some dude (speaks volumes that I can’t remember their names) and that had little to no romance either.
So yeah it definitely is a sign of the times unfortunately.
So we now have women who can only be portrayed in a main role as kick arse and men who can only have their character development off the interactions from their bromance.
The irony is that past final fantasy female characters had far more depth and inner strength of character than the boring token character of Luna or punk kick arse character of lightening.
@@DipsyMum29 Feminism it has nothing to do with this. That isn't a thing in Japan.
I was actually talking to a friend about this, there's a videogame Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows of Valentia, that has a similar situation of the male and female leads meeting when they were kids, bonding then and then spending a decade or so separated. In this case, though, there was no distant relationship between them as the setting is more medieval and they can't even send letters to each other, they literally don't even really know if the other is alive during all those years, but both keep a very fond memory of the other and pin to the other despite the lack of interaction. And yet, despite having even less interactions than Noctis and Luna, I found that romance more believable because the player gets to follow BOTH characters journeys and sees BOTH of them pinning for each other, praying for each other and hoping for the best. By the time they meet (which isn't that late in the game, actually) there is a sense of great expectations from both of them and due to several reasons it kind of crashes down, leading both to keep going their own separate ways. They argue, they fight, they get angry at each other but still ultimately keep worrying and thinking about the other, the times they interact are few and in between and usually something terrible is happening, not much unlike the Leviathan trial and Luna's death, but those few moments are intense and because even when not together the player can see them still thinking about each other it's somehow easier to connect to that romance than Noctis' and Luna's.
So, I do believe that Noctis and Luna's relationship could be believable and good, it just needs a full rework in writing, even if nothing new is added (though even an occassional text or phone call would be perfect), even if Noctis doesn't tell his friends openly about his feelings, there's no reason to have the player blind to them and having to assume what he means with his sigh or grunt when he gets teased about marrying Luna. Showing more of Luna would also help a lot, her own journey, not because of what she does but in order to see her pinning and thinking of Noctis, worrying about him beyond her role as the Oracle. Or even showing why she would be so much about her duties as Oracle and his duties and King, I have heard many think that the Omen trailer, the vision that Regis had, was a vision that Luna also had and that would explain her worries and awkwardness about Noctis because she would have seen him killing her and failing his duties. That kind of internal conflict on Luna could give a lot of sense even to the lack of interaction. And, again, even if they kept the magic dog and didn't do cellphones (which could be excused as them not using those because they don't want anyone to manage to discover that they are in contact with each other since Luna is pretty much a prisoner of the Empire, but that only makes the magic dog even more magical), they should have made it so that Luna's responses changed based on what the player wrote to her, even if ultimately the result is the same, seeing her writing more warmly or coldly and then the speech scene having a shared glance and a smile or a cold nod would help to establish a relationship much more than it is.
Maybe Episode Luna will be about her own journey and work to make sure that the gods would test Noctis or something like that and will give more flesh to what barely is the skeleton of a romance, maybe it will be an AU where we see them interact much like Noctis and Sarah and thus become able to actually see them as a couple by seeing "what it would have been". Though to be honest I don't feel too hopeful. I personally considered the romance in FFXV doomed after hearing that reasoning about how "having a girl in the party would change the dynamics and we want to focus on the sense of brotherhood", and in fact the game would probably work even better if one erased all references to a romance beyond chapter 1 when the wedding loses purpose, because as said in the video, Luna and Noctis end feeling more as coworkers than anything else. I can't help but feel that the "romance" was added due pressure because of how it seems to have become a stapple of the franchise. But still, if you're going to write a bad love story it's better if you don't write one, it's sad when I ended more invested in the relationship between Snow and Serah in all the FF13 games, even though on the first one she's a statue for all of it and in the other two they are barely together, but somehow their story was done better. Not Tidus/Yuna better but, definitively better than Noctis/Luna.
I've played Fire Emblem Echoes and I like it. My big sister has FF 15 but hasn't had much time to play it because of work and college.
I've played FE Echoes: Shadows of Valentia (Fire Emblem is one of my favourite game franchises). I have to say, Alm and Celica was underutilized, but it was believable. I say underutilized because the story really could've (and should've) shown how much they complement and balance out each other; that they don't tear each other apart the way Mila and Duma did long ago despite Celica and Alm's different philosophies and approaches to the main conflict.
It was definitively underutilized, as you say the story should've shown more how they complement and balance each other rather than just make it an assumption that we make based on how the game rolls. Any time of the day I would point out the flaws of Echoes, it's definitively not perfect in the way it tells the relationship (then again the focus of the story was never their relationship, in the original game there wasn't even one to begin with), but that's also why it drives me more up the walls how better it is compared to the way FFXV handles it's own romance.
@@athena_laureate True, True. They messed up a few things but Echoes is still a really good game to me though.
I thought there was gonna be a point where Luna joins the party and omg. Can you imagine her roughing it in the wild with them, learning how to fish, going over the hurdles of finding out what each other is really like?! Imagine; Luna riding a chocobo with Noct, they're all 'awh, hold onto me, you're safe~~' and then one day she decides she wants to try it on her own and eventually they race each other with trash talk! Seeing the 'responsible, mature' character she had being indignant at losing would've made her relatable. Noct being called out by his friends for 'not being like himself' around her. Luna jumping to conclusions about Iris. The fun, angsty relationship stuff that endears you to the characters. Her death was anticlimactic (sp?) and made me wonder if they were even trying to establish a romance between the two at all.
That's why people ship Noctis more with Prompto than with Luna
Best love story was Laguna in FF8.
:')
THANK YOU I SEARCHED FOR THIS
yes!
Omg Laguna and Raine😭😭😭💙💙💙 It was such a sad romance but so beautiful at the same time. ahhhh
The scene when Laguna remembers the time he proposed to her and then it shows him at Raine's grave ;-; and THEN Ellen goes to greet him. MY HEART :'(
It kinda helps that in FFX both Yuna and Tidus are actuall protagonists. You get to know both of them and grows to care about them individually. I mean at the end of the game they shift the petspective away from Tidus to Yuna. It's their story, not just Tidus'.
NAILED IT. My first playthrough I didn't feel anything for Luna's death. I knew I was supposed to and so I just opted to feel Noct's pain instead. I figured he knew more about what he lost than I did, that there was more to 15's world than what I got to see. But then I realized what you were talking about here....that there were SO many ways they could have shown it instead of having me guess at it.
In the end they should have made it purely political or romantic. Since it errs on the side of a political royal marriage I figured they didn't love one another like that. They had a bond as the only other person who understands what it is like to be a young highborn person with a duty at a very tumultuous time in history.
FFX will always be my favorite of the franchise. I loved everything about it. Just wish it could get fully remade with current graphics. Anima would be scary af lol
See what they did to FF7? Careful what you wish for. They might retcon something important to you and then turn YOU into a dementor for ever liking their game.
@@timellis8569 What went wrong with FF7 remake?.
@@donaldstrump911 They changed the Story.
when aerith died on FFVII, me and my best were looking away from each other trying hard to hold those feel juices. when luna died on ffxv, we burst out laughing to how pathetic her story was delivered. we would have even felt sadness if iris died.
yeah because you were literally invested in Aerith as in levelled her up thinking she is the white mage in your party
Amazing how you and your best friend still have time to sit and play video games together after 8 installments later into the series.
@@discovermajid Aerith as a character was structured and designed in such a way with the intention of her dying since the early stages of FFVII's development. Her death was meant to impact the players in a gameplay sense and not just an emotional one.
👏👏👏👏👏 Squall and Rinoa, Titus and Yuna, even VaanxPenelo had more meat on the bone
vaan and penelo are ehh didn't see much going on with them either
tor emind I couldn't figure out who liked who that game. But they were just shipped together at the end and I just accepted it
zionoas2 There was a little more to Vaan's and Penelo's relationship in Revenant Wings but most people never played nor even heard of XII's sequel on the Nintendo DS. But yeah, I enjoyed even them as a couple in comparison to Noctis and Luna.
@@angrylegatus6716 I feel you. That was the solidifying game. They didn't really build a relationship between Noctis and Luna, and it just suffered from the team like everything else. They can't keep getting fan feedback and patching the game. They are still getting paid for that. I think 15 should just end and I think Tabata needs to just be demoted to lesser ranked projects. All the characters and stories have been apart of are hollow as well as the games.
yeah all i noticed was balthier and fran having a little bit of something, but vaan and penelo are indeed better than noct and luna
I was more invested in the relationship between Iggy and his can of Ebony, than I was with Luna and Noct
To be real, IX had the absolute best romance. Zidane and Garnet's relationship felt like it was on a whole other level than anything we've seen before or after.
Just to make it clear. FfVii is my favorite, ffx is my second, and ffix is my third. Not playing favorites or anything, I just feel as if zidane and Garnet's relationship really is the best the series has to offer.
The Omen trailer was the best thing coming out of FFXV. And SE didn't even make it.
I kinda like Kingsglaive as a stand alone piece, but I hate what it's existance meant to the final game.
I would also add the Nomura Trailers to the mix. But Omen was so misleading and got me to preorder the game so I'm biased against it now.
@@ThatBeingCed
To me, the Omens trailer should've been apart of the Kingsglaive movie or the Game itself as it's clear that Bahamut is talking to King Regis and gave him a vision of the future in where he sees Noctis suffering and even failing at his mission to stop the Star Scourge and his Vengeful Ancestor.
I was so excited about the game when the trailer came out. It raised my expectations waaay too high for the story. I think the story is the thing that suffered the most in this game. I never care about DLC or even having the best damn graphics but the story is the most important.
Maiaer exactly like me. They showed the Omen Trailer and I was so hyped up and pre ordered this game. It could’ve been the greatest, but they lied to us all. Now I won’t preorder any game anymore and just buy games after I saw reviews from my TRUSTED reviewers.
Sarah is best girl of XV....
Absolutely. Get my boy Noct a woman who isn’t the physical manifestation of an unseasoned chicken breast.
Plot twist, she's the real heroine of the game.
Aranea*
I want her to jump on my chocobo.
@Gold Coin I think they're talking about the latest collab in FFXV with Terra Battle which had Sarah from that series in it.
Their age difference’s situation would be different if they fell in love when they were already adults, but the idea of them having already this kind of feelings so young (12 and 8) it’s kinda disturbing
Tell that to a 12 and 8 yearold. And a royal one at that.
I really like the cell phone idea especially at camp
And just how you save pictures that you take she should be sending you pictures that she's taking, maybe one picture you send you received one picture
FFX is and will always be the best Final Fantasy game to me. Nothing close thus far. Action, the plot, character development, the story, the LOVE, etc. One of my favorite games of all time. I truly love FFX 💟
I already knew this when I play the game. The entire relationship between noct and luna is so forced just for the sake of "romance" in the game.
Appreciate the thumbnail. FFX was a fantastic progression on the love story. Great game too
You know why we can't see their chemistry?, From the very beginning, when they decided to release specific character episodes separately, and an anime, and an animated movie that are tied together to the main story, I know it's a bad sign, this game is not ready for release, it's incomplete.
The story itself is a puzzle that we must put together on our own with missing pieces that we can never find, and that missing pieces happens to be Lunafreya's part of the story.
Don't they think it's important to tell us Luna and Noct's relationship before they're going married?, Anakin & Padme love story is terrible, but at least they're trying to tell us something about how they love each other.
This pissed me off, they're making this game for 10+ years, and this is the result. =_=
Seems like that's the only thing they can do lately. Long development without good outcomes. KH3 was just a replay of every Pixar movie without story tie-ins. And the FF7 remake is only looking good. I feel they try to be everything they are not. Open world, action combat... And character development and world building / story suffers from it. If I look at FF8 and 9 with only one year in-between but two gorgeous games... Of course it's hard to compare in terms of platforms, but still
What I also like in FFX is that the player has some involvement choices. Although Minor and they dont change the ending it can give you the feeling of Delay in Romance if your Feelings haven't gotten to that Point yet. Like answering Waka if you initially like Yuna. Or Confessing to Lulu or denying it at that time. It helps when the player feels they can take a step closer or take things slower.
Worth noting she (Yuna) doesn't actually say "I love you" in the original (Japanese) script.
But rather says 有難う (Thank You). This was changed in the English version to "I love you."
Yeah. I think the English version is nicer in this regard as it did make the scene a bit more emotional and a better pay off. Some of my Japanese friends thought it was a great addition for the English version but the “thank you” makes more sense for the context of Japanese
That could a video on its own!
@@TheNightSkyPrince I think another part that makes X better is how Teedus and Yuna took the time to understand each other. At the start of the game Teedus is super selfish and childish. When Yuna loses everything, Teedus tells her to just leave. Abandon everything. Help me find my Zanarkand. He might have said it because he genuinely wanted to help her but that's the way somebody from Zanarkand might think. It's not his fault, it's all he knows. But if Yuna gives up here then there will be no check to Sin. But Teedus didn't think that far. By the end Teedus is ready to trade his own life for Yuna's and even Jecht. Yuna's view of the world rubbed off on him, Teedus needed her to become the hero he became.
On the flip side Yuna swings to the extreme opposite. Yuna takes absolutely zero care to herself and mindlessly listens to everything Yevon says. She was going to marry somebody she didn't even like just so everyone else would have something positive to talk about. But Teedus doesn't care for Yevon and questions everything. And made Yuna question things herself. So when a bunch of corrupt priests tell her to sell out her values for the greater good, she's able to give them the finger because Yuna doesn't believe that it's acceptable. And when Yunalesca asks her to throw away her life for nothing she gave her the other finger. Were it not for Teedus Yuna probably would have just killed herself. Yuna needed Teedus to become the greatest High Summoner.
It's all a matter of personal preference but I have to side with the Japanese here. Sure "I love you" may initially seem more romantic, but her feelings were pretty self evident for all involved by that point.
"Thank you" on the other hand is both an acknowledgement of the meaningfulness of their time spent together as well as a final farewell. As such it is the more fitting thing to say to someone about to die.
I got the impression that Noct thought he loved her, but the oncoming death was so obvious that it didn't have any impact.
"A heroine that was simultaneously in love with the protagonist, but was forced to fight him" This was one of the biggest reasons I was really excited for 15 when it was first announced! It had this Romeo and Juliet vibe, except Juliet was this badass magic weilder. There were many other concepts in the orignal 15/13 Verses that had so much potential, and had me thinking it might be my new favorite ff game, that they completely did away with. And the saddest part is, we'll never know how great that game could have been.
I don't think it really was a romance. I think it was a close friendship. One that was sort of forced on them, but one of a lot of trust. That said... Ignis has more romantic feelings for Noctis implied in his DLC than Luna ever did.
Isn't ignis his much older butler ? . He's basically the mum of the group
This is what happens if when you try to force a romance.
Kell Harris You mean force a marriage? It was indeed arranged marriage. Ppl r so stupid those days.
@@kyaiaiakyaiaia4230 It wasn't just an arranged marriage. SE was literally trying their hardest to convince the players that Noctis and Luna were legitimately in love but failed.
AngelFromTheNightmare Same thing with Kingdom Hearts with Sora and Kairi.
@@sheriffaboubakar9720 at least you can see hints between their feelings for each other throughout the games
Love that you're repping "You're not Alone" in the background
The great thing about tidus and yuna is they are almost polar opposites, tidus has his head in the clouds reaching for whats impossible, and yuna is grounded by her religion and believes very little besides what she is shown, it led to both of them being taugh something, for yuna it was to try to learn and reach for something new, for tidus it was to be more down to earth and be a little more mature in life, this reminds me of a quote from a show, theres dreamers and realists, and youd think theyd match up but in reality it tends to be opposite, because without a realist a dreamer will float away and without a dreamer and realist will never get off the ground
Of course there wasn’t a romance between the two. We all know Noctis was smashin’ all his bros on the side smh.
Ignis is his true wife.
AngelFromTheNightmare Please. We all know they’re all married to Noctis.
ksjadhvjuzhgk, sfajkoa do you think they made Luna a bit older for the ending? So it wouldn’t look like an middle age man kissing a teenager?
@@StandAsYouAre Well Luna is actually older than him so-
AngelFromTheNightmare referring to older Noctis kissing Luna at the very end.
A 30 year old Noctis kissing a 24 Lunafreya is less creepy then a 30 year old Noctis kissing a teenage Lunafreya
When I watched Kingsglaive I thought they were gonna get rid of the usual formula of Hero loves Heroine.
And go with Heroine loves side character namely Nyx Ulric, then Hero(Noct) sacrifice self for world.
Seems only the last part made it.
Or bettter Noct loves another side character. At least that made it into DLC although still not made clear in the main canon.
They should've made Noct shatter the stereotype of Prince loves Princess.
In the game, they were more like bestfriends anyway. Childhood sweethearts is such a cliche.
I cried more over Noctis leaving his friends than Luna's death.
More on FFX's beautiful love story too; that kissing scene comes directly after Yuna made the decision to marry the bad guy in another expression of her mayrtr complex. Not only did he forgive that, the clarity with which she approaches her feelings after the fact really adds that extra significance.
I love the Suteki na De scene man, it's so great
FFX is best game ever made .
Yep! It's my favorite of all time
REDZERG you right, fam 😁
I actually just beat FFX for the first time a few weeks ago. It was indeed a fantastic game. Though, I am curious on what final fantasy to try after 10. Hm...
@@sonicthefox2478 13 trilogy. If you liked 10 you'll probably enjoy 13
@@nicke20686 Really? I guess ill give them a shot. Conviently, 13-2 and 3 are both at my local library so thst helps, but I'm gonna have to find the first 13 game.
Thanks btw.
"... and them floating off may be suggesting that Tidus mastered the Jecht shot after all.."
*Hits like button*
Thank you for having good taste!
I tried rewatching the scene when that thing happens to Luna while cutting onions to add some tears.. didn't work
I didn't realize FFXV was supposed to be a love story at any capacity lol. I think that says something.
The only downside to using cell phones would be the chance of a wire tap, but that could be used to add more tension to the game.
Noctis is presumed to be dead, it's even announced on the radio soon after the attack, and there's a moment of panic as Gladiolus tries to find out what happened to his little sister. If the Nifs knew Lunafreya and Noctis were in regular contact, you'd bet they'd find ways to find out who she's talking to just in case one of those people is connected to the supposedly dead prince or someone close to him. If she calls or texts, they could trace it and get an idea, if not an exact location, on where he is. Once they figure out that's what's going on, THEN they could rely on magical dogs to pass messages back and forth while the phones are used to give false information. They could develop a kind of friendship in deceiving their shared enemy for as long as they can get away with, but what we get instead is not nearly as interesting or engaging.