Why Peacocking in Ancient Athens might get you ostracised (ostrichsized?) | Curator’s Corner S8 Ep8
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- Опубликовано: 28 июн 2024
- Luxury and power: Persia to Greece
4 May 2023 - 13 Aug 2023
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CONTENT WARNING:
Most depictions of peacocks in this video are to scale, although the main depiction of a peacock is only 2 cms. No depictions of peacocks are in any way ostrich sized.
#PersianIncursion #OstrichsizedForPeacockOwnership #CuratorsCorner
My Mother's family were American "old money" types. She married a cab driver, so the family wealth went elsewhere.
But from her I got many lessons about ostentation and taste. Broadly speaking, the old money folks didn't show off their wealth at all, though evidence of it could be found if you explored enough. Whereas new money people, for which they had a term "codfish" (the origins of which are obscure), who made show displays of wealth.
Mother would tell me about some aunt or cousin who drove an old (but nice) car, and wore simple clothes (of very high quality), which they would keep and wear even with small tears of repairs. To meet them in public would say nothing about their wealth, and they did not differentiate between people of various wealth status in conversation.
Codfish types wanted to make sure you knew they were rich, and did so with gaudy displays of wealth, from what they drove to what they ate and drank. You knew they were rich because they told you they were.
Though they didn't look down on anyone, old money people found the ostentatious displays of wealth to be in poor taste, and harmful to the harmony of the Republic.
This sounds like the Athenians of old, and their aversion to peacockery.
This is fantastic! Thank you for a wonderful, informative video - you've really brought this to life for me
Jamie is a marvelous storyteller! Good luck with your exhibit from the U.S.; I wish I could visit.
Amazing how you brought together peacocks, history and politics! Thank you 🙂
Peacock shrieks remind me of a mighty tatzan yell mixed with a dash of howler monkey stubbing a toe.
"...a sheef of pecok arews, bright and keen, I've made arrows with peacock feathers. Beautiful.
In the middle ages peafowl were kept for eating as well as feathers. I'm pretty sure if they tasted bad someone would've said something. Most fowl in the ancient world were tough and compared to today's specially bred chickens, rather scrawny. Peafowl were bno more or less scrawny than most birds eaten. Tbh they probably tasted better than swan.
The peacocks (and pheasants) were also skinned then prepared, then skin and feathers put on again before serving. Showing off? Sure!
@@johanneswerner1140 older chickens are tough as well. “Stewing hens” used to be available, and my mother mistook one my father had bought for a fryer. Fried stewing hen was quite chewy.
Could the snakes be a reference to Athens' local rivals. The bearded one struck me as a reference to the Egyptian Pharaoh.
yes! Well spotted: the bearded snake is an Eyptian reference.
ChatGPT: 'In ancient Egyptian art, it is not uncommon to see depictions of a snake with a beard and a headdress. This imagery is associated with the deity known as Wadjet or Uraeus. Wadjet was a protective goddess, often represented as a cobra or a serpent. She was considered the protector of the pharaohs and had a significant presence in Egyptian mythology and iconography.
In Egyptian art, Wadjet is often depicted as a snake with a rearing cobra's head, which may be adorned with a headdress or crown. The cobra's head is sometimes shown wearing a distinctive royal beard, which is a symbol of divine authority and typically associated with male deities.
The imagery of the snake with a beard and headdress is particularly prominent in representations of Wadjet as the Uraeus, a form of the cobra symbol worn on the headdress of the pharaoh to symbolize protection and sovereignty.
These depictions can be found on various Egyptian artifacts, such as temple reliefs, statues, and sarcophagi, reflecting the importance of Wadjet in ancient Egyptian religious and political contexts.'
@@MyMy-tv7fd Wadjet failed if she's dinner for a peacock then. Of course, then the peacock is probably standing in for Hera. I wonder who the other snake is?🤔
Or maybe it's referring to Argos overcoming naval or trade rivals. What a puzzle.
Bearded snakes were being depicted in Greek art since at least the early 6th century BCE. (see object 103YM2 J. Paul Getty Museum Collection)
While I think it plausible that the motif originated in Egypt. By the time this ring was manufactured, 150 or more years later, I feel sure that there was an established local tradition.
Wonderful! Thank you!
Amazing video!
very interesting video thanks for sharing
Great video. PLEASE fix your volume. The music is way louder than the curator.
What a great lesson!
A maioria das pessoas nao tem paciência para ver essas minúcias maravilhosas que existem além da primeira impressão
I would like to know, how and when did peacocks become associated with Hera? What were they saying about her?
Seems to me that the story of the court case against Demos speaks directly to the relevance and the raison d'etre of museums of today like The British.
It is widely believed that humans benefit from experiencing beauty in nature, as well as beauty in art. Most countries today accept that things of exquisite beauty and rarity, whether of nature or of art, should not be locked away, unseen and unappreciated except by a wealthy few in their high security complexes. Allowing the public access to National Treasures is today considered a civic responsibility, just as it was in ancient Athens - hence our public museums and galleries, our publicly sponsored performance companies, and also our zoos, botanic gardens, heritage sites and national parks.
Thanks for waking me up!
Very nice ❤
Thank you for this fascinating video! I was struck right away by the bearded snake. It looks very similar to the false beard and crown of Lowe Egypt. Perhaps the ring reflects trade, political contact or even a marriage between an Egyptian and Persian. with the bearded snake as a stylized cobra.. If I want to take my imagination further perhaps the peacock is Persia dominating Egypt and Greece....a sort of Narmer Palette in miniature!
Interesting...👍
Is the Demos peacock farm one of the first zoos ?
Excellent video! It's relevance to the cyclopean wealth divide of today is fascinating.
That beard on the snake screams Egypt to me.
If only we kept those values in todays society.😢
OMG ! I feel terrible. We have 4 peacocks and 3 hens on our farm. Vanity oh vanity… Hahaha!
This is wild speculation but, about the two snakes in the cutches of the peacock. Did Demos win his case? If he did, the ring could be a satirical statement of the bird conquering two of the litigants who brought the action against Demos. And one of those litigants had a beard.
And it looks like there’s a bird above the bearded snake’s head. Could this be an early indication of calling someone a bird brain?
Hey! Why did that snake have a beard?
the snake with the beard represent the male and the other snake is female
the bearded snake is an Eyptian reference.
ChatGPT: 'In ancient Egyptian art, it is not uncommon to see depictions of a snake with a beard and a headdress. This imagery is associated with the deity known as Wadjet or Uraeus. Wadjet was a protective goddess, often represented as a cobra or a serpent. She was considered the protector of the pharaohs and had a significant presence in Egyptian mythology and iconography.
In Egyptian art, Wadjet is often depicted as a snake with a rearing cobra's head, which may be adorned with a headdress or crown. The cobra's head is sometimes shown wearing a distinctive royal beard, which is a symbol of divine authority and typically associated with male deities.
The imagery of the snake with a beard and headdress is particularly prominent in representations of Wadjet as the Uraeus, a form of the cobra symbol worn on the headdress of the pharaoh to symbolize protection and sovereignty.
These depictions can be found on various Egyptian artifacts, such as temple reliefs, statues, and sarcophagi, reflecting the importance of Wadjet in ancient Egyptian religious and political contexts.'
Because a mustache would have looked ridiculous....
Because he couldn't hold a razor!
Gottem
Tfsharing❤
👍🏻
Amazing video, as usual. Just a minor quibble, though. There's no such thing as a breeding pair of peacocks. Peacocks are specifically the males, as opposed to the peahens, which are female. Collectively, they're peafowl, so they'd be a breeding pair of peafowl. Cheers!
A silly riddle my brother once caught me out with as children - Q: how many eggs does a peacock lay? A: none, it’s the peahen who lays them…
Yeah but we live in a world where such distinctions only matter to professionals.
@@desperatelyseekingrealnewsthis British museum curator is probably a professional
It’s like how a rooster is a male chicken but if you’re talking about the species in general as a whole you still call them ‘chickens’. There’s not a specific sex-neutral way to refer to both peacocks and peahens. They’re collectively peacocks.
@@shrekadvisoryboard No, there is a sex-neutral way to refer to them, which is the word "peafowl."
It’s not simply about the democratisation of resources or personal obsessions; it's also got to do with the relation between ostentatious behaviours/practices being a Persian thing, an Eastern thing; almost feminine and powerless. Especially after 479 BC, there was even a decree banning embellished funerary monuments/statues in Athens and was also a wave of simplicity (that could almost be juxtaposed to the meager conditons and attitudes of Europe after WW2) in almost all areas of life, after experiencing such a monstrosity from the Greatest Monster. So not simply a democratisation of sources but also a learned austerity and simplicity, after living times of Hell.
Get back the Moai to Rapa Nui, pompous thieves!🗿
Do we have an earlies record for white peafowl?
Why Peacocking in Ancient Athens might get you ostracised (ostrichsised?) | Curator’s Corner Ep8 S8 1629PM 6/7/23 i wouldnt mind a bit of luxury.. in fact i think i have earned it... so when do i get to wallow in a bit of luxury...?
The first thing I do when I inevitably become named and titled and promoted to the position of Supreme Being, King of Earth, Mortal man, and All Creatures Seen and Unseen, is I immediately order all peacocks on the Earth killed.
One of the most extraordinary things you experience working in the British Museum is seeing the hundreds of thousands of looted artifacts (yes, HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS, look it up) from England’s violent colonial history
It would of been wonderful to find out what the object was made of and how, why and where it was made, including details about of its iconography. Giving a sociology lesson straight out of a universty text book is interesting but what about the actual object?
You do artists and craftspeople a disservice, you hold these objects in high regard only as visual aids to weave into the flavours of today historic narratives. But you forget about the stories of the people that made them. Well maybe ancient Athens and modern London have more than the Elgin Marbles in common.
@@Moleena thank you,. I have recreated a lot of historical paintings using methods and materials as the were originally used. I have also read a lot of the conservators reports and historical assessments. These people do not know anything about the people who created, about the materials they used or their processes. I have very little tolerance for them.
They are the New Scientist compared to Astronomy and Astrophysica. Or Neil deGrasse Tyson compared to Paul Dirac! Ok for the toilet not for the desk. X
Devuelvan el Moái 🇨🇱🇨🇱🇨🇱
Y si regresan el Moai? 🗿
Ok, but Return the Moai 🗿
The bearded snake is from Egyptian art, the beard being a sign of the pharaoh.
the bearded snake is an Eyptian reference.
ChatGPT: 'In ancient Egyptian art, it is not uncommon to see depictions of a snake with a beard and a headdress. This imagery is associated with the deity known as Wadjet or Uraeus. Wadjet was a protective goddess, often represented as a cobra or a serpent. She was considered the protector of the pharaohs and had a significant presence in Egyptian mythology and iconography.
In Egyptian art, Wadjet is often depicted as a snake with a rearing cobra's head, which may be adorned with a headdress or crown. The cobra's head is sometimes shown wearing a distinctive royal beard, which is a symbol of divine authority and typically associated with male deities.
The imagery of the snake with a beard and headdress is particularly prominent in representations of Wadjet as the Uraeus, a form of the cobra symbol worn on the headdress of the pharaoh to symbolize protection and sovereignty.
These depictions can be found on various Egyptian artifacts, such as temple reliefs, statues, and sarcophagi, reflecting the importance of Wadjet in ancient Egyptian religious and political contexts.'
You paying translaters yet?
So there are still some stolen stuff left in the museum that your employees haven't sold off on eBay!
"Reconstructioin? (1:25)
(babbling for the sake of the tube-u-all algo-deities)
I know that 2,500 years sounds like a r.e.a.l.l.y. long time ago,
but we are not so distant from then as the people of Athens were to
the beginning of the Egyptian civilization and its as yet undiscovered predecessors.
and in the grand scheme of this planet's putting forth of species,
it is less than a blink of an eye.
Return the Parthenon marbles to Greece.
Peafowl are edible, just do not use an older bird without long stewing. Older chickens are quite tough, too.
the snake with the beard represent the male and the other snake is female
That was my first thought as well.
peacocking
noun
Ostentatious dress or behaviour employed by a man in an attempt to impress women.
Weren't peabirds associated with Hera?
"Democracy" also excluded slaves.
And women, and the poor and foreigners and...
@@johanneswerner1140 He mentioned 2 of your 3, but "the poor"?
Can you give me your most compelling example, please.
I am keen to learn.
So every interesting things in Athens came from Persia!
I wish these videos also showed Persian perspective on luxury and the significance of these luxuries to them. Right now it seem like the Persians were just people with too much money and too much time.
Devuelvan el Moai 🗿
neuroses? seriously?
peacocks are beautiful but they are too smart for their own good. peacocks were like the cats of birds. albino peacocks were created on a ship by a meddling importer exporter. He was anticipating lower payment for goods. The peacock was the first bird purchased for home protection. Their quills were made into sharp instruments which people used to repel the dogbirds.
But Kardashians are already democratized.
Chor bazar bolo 😂😂😂
Bl00dy thieves
Devuelvan el moai🗿🗿🗿
Devuelvan el moai
DEVUELVAN EL MOAI 🗿 🗿 Y EL PENACHO 🦚🦚🦚🦚🦚
Goddess Hera's symbol is Peacock in Greek Mythology. so why should you be surprised when you see a peacock in Classical Greece? 😃It obviously existed in Greece since when mythology was created 😁
Because Greeks had little knowledge of the bird until later on. It was only in the Hellenistic Period that peacocks became associated with Hera
I would eat a peacock. Now I'm hungry. Does that make me a bad person?
removing social inequality for those deemed full citizens. it wasnt a bastion of liberty or equality for all. athens had literal state owned slaves, slaves whose only reason for existing was to "assist" elected officials and military leaders (no meritocracy in athens) in doing their jobs. not really the fertile grounds for our ideas on liberal democracy. I love ancient Greece but in my worthless opinion Athens get way way too much love and free passes.
DEVUELVAN EL MOAI. 🗿🗿🗿🗿🗿
Devuelvan al moai 🗿🇨🇱
Dubai??? Really???
Thank God for the British museum for stealing and preserving all of these priceless relics.
It might have been nice if they had done that to Buddhist statues that the Taliban blew up.
@@Egilhelmson are you suggesting the Taliban is an agent of the British Museum? Like, I can see how it could be a thing metaphorically, but metaphorically gone is gone whether nobody has it or somebody else does.
Great, and now please hand back the "exported" goods to their countries of origin.
Really disappointing that the BRITISH museum chooses to use American spellings.
The trainee typing in the text must be American. 😅
Haha we had a lot of difficulty with the spelling of that made up word! The Americanisation the least of the worries tbf. Will fix in a minute.
yo, the american spelling makes more sense though.
It’s also the Oxford spelling to use the -ize …
Stop saying "Middle East", it's West Asia.