When Freeman J. Dyson died at age 96 this year my heart was ripped into pieces. He took with him a small part of me. Ahh God... May Sir Roger live even longer
@@Nameless.Friend i just read your message, while listening to this interview first time. I want to say the same pray in my message - and if God exists - wish he could have given us at least an option that we could contribute part of our life times say a fraction in order to have our humanity's pride like Sir Penrose for long long time with us - healthy and happy !
I could tell you... but... it's too many to bother... the big bang never happened; black holes don't exist; time is not a dimension; we can't join space and time it's apples and oranges... ... ... such a big lag time for people to catch up and update or they don't want to...
Sincere congratulations Sir Roger. As a fellow Englishman albeit with only a BSc in Physics, I have long regarded you as the greatest living Physicist. I also have problems with quantum physics and the artificial inflation theory. I really understand and like your idea of Aeons. It is extremely satisfying. I think that no one deserves to be a Nobel Laureate more than you. The Emperor's new mind really drove me into physics. I simply HAD to know more. So thanks very much and once again my sincere congratulations for a long deserved Nobel prize.
It's great fun listening to someone who is considered in their language, and Sir Roger definitely ticks that box!!!! It's like the antidote to politics!
This must be so inspiring for young people interested in a career in physics. So many interesting open problems waiting to be solved. I highly recommend his popular science books such as Fashion, faith and fantasy.
I'm a physics undergrad, he is certainly a physicist that I look up to, along with Richard Feynman. Though obviously Feynman is dead it helps one appreciate the great minds that we still have among us today (Such as Sir Penrose) that people often take for granted in this society as a whole.
@Carol Binkley 3 days but about 14 hours per day, and I read fast. My technique is to read but don't slow down to think, then I'll selectively go back to refresh. I've read a lot of Roger's work and know his style quite well.
@Carol Binkley I actually agreed with you that Titles are ridiculous as Feynman said! I apologise if you misconstrued my Comments..I was just expressing clarity ..be safe tc
@Carol Binkley America appears terrified of Socialism as they conflate it with Communism(never really tested)..wasnt Christ a Socialist yet America claims to be Christian Nation, ha tcx
An astonishing man, an extraordinary mind, and what a fascinating and informative interview. I was intrigued by his comment about being a ' visual ' person. At school, in the late 1950`s, 1960`s, I had extreme difficulty understanding geometry, as the standard teaching method was a one size for all. It wasn`t until I began to use computers, and 3-D software, that I could, visually manipulate and rotate complex geometric shapes, then understanding just flooded in, the explanations made sense at long last. Thank you for this wonderful interview.
Thanks for uploading this interview related and confined to Sir Roger's perspective about physics. A pleasing experience to hear him expressing himself in a calm friendly way.
Nice one! He was my father's PhD supervisor... top chap, apparently. I can't help thinking that in years to come Roger will be remembered most for pointing out (unfashionably, back in 1985) some solid reasons why consciousness is NOT merely computation - and that it is more than an emergent property of having enough compute, data and some decent code... Anyway - well done!
He was recognised only for his work on prediction of black holes. His work on consciousness is highly controversial and considered to be fallacious by most people trained in logic.
@@holliswilliams8426 Well, it appears that greatness will always have an element of the fantastical to it, as witnessed by Newton's fascination with alchemy, or Kepler's interest in the mystical possibilities of his classifications of polyhedra. As for Penrose, his work in applied mathematics / physics will be his lasting contribution, but that's not to say that his speculations in other areas will not also bear fruit, independent of whether he is right or wrong in the particulars.
There are things we can't know about the universe but we don't know what they are. The best we can do is to fund the questions that may be answerable and build on that knowledge.
Einstein spoke truth to power by disregarding the Aether theory and thinking completely outside the box. Sir Roger is of the same mold, here he questions QM as being incorrect when the modern-day consensus is that it's General Relativity that's wrong and needs to be quantized to agree with QM. At 89 years of age, his thinking is still outside the box. How refreshing!
Hi, dear Mr. Tan Boon Tee. Excellent point you made there. Both are highly deserving. But I just feel they should both be lone recipients - one in a particular year, and the other in another year. Unshared, i guess that is the word I am looking for and have found
I am glad Penrose got a Nobel: He would point out when he sees “deux ex machina” getting involved in theories while some others loudly recite the party line.
Most heartfelt congratulations to you, dear Sir. I believe you are a great inspiration to the world as much as you are a blessing to mankind. Sincerest thanks for your invaluable contributions to science, and I am truly over the moon for you. You are great in your own right, and a blazing light of inspiration
Thanks for uploading this interview! I could listen to Roger for hours, although I suspect I don't know enough that I could do a good job at interviewing him. 🙂
Interesting, what Dr. Penrose said about visual factors in the mind and a commonality he found amongst mathematicians. I'm a retired software engineer, with no visual memory. Meaning, I can't store images... an anti-photographic memory. When he mentioned that I nearly jumped out of my skin. Instead, I'm writing this. Such a giant of human history and I share commonality, wow! LOL! That would be a fascinating field of study on the human brain. I know where I can find an interested individual to begin that study! (Hint, he's the star of this video). Alas, my research life ended.
He is a brilliant man. The questions, not so much. In fact I would say that some of them are downright stupid. What's your favorite shame, your favorite algorithm. Go get a life
Roger could time and gravity be emergent products of the colapse of superposition. I.e. the universe exists because of it's inherent probability and subsiquent resolution of potential into outcomes in reality.
Listening to this while tired. I wonder if the creation of mass and the creation of space are synonymous, ie you can't have one without the other. So the conundrum of 10^100 years passing as black holes evaporate, resulting in space 'forgetting' that it was big, is really a matter of space, effectively by definition, ceasing to exist when mass disappears (or at least de-naturing itself back into some proto form in which all that exists is entanglement), so that it gets re-created as mass is made again. And mass is made again because the massless state, with no space, is inherently unstable, and decays into the complex mess we call space-time, containing mass. So the Inflationary Period is an outpouring of space consequent on the creation of mass, the key clue being that the energy wrapped up in mass is equal to the energy required to separate all masses from one another, ie to eliminate the gravity well. Now I will go back to sleep.
Having trouble with inflation? the universe blew out at from 10^-31 seconds to something huge (well above lightspeed, but that is managed away by explaining away the 'size' just increased). Glad to hear mr Penrose too has his doubts. :-) At 10:10 and on, Roger clearly speaks (in his distinguished and polite English) way: Inflation is a poor theory. Another theory is that I am waaay too stupid to understand inflating universe.
Here is the emporer with humble. clothes , a shinnig star child-like mind, filled with courage to say something that Q.M. is not quite right but it sustains for now. i love the fact he is a visual and abstract thinker. i love his little cute drawings on transparent films . his authentic way of answering , always surprises me, like he comes from another where , from some emperial landscape . there is this super position about you and it is so very fine this acknowledgement the world honors you with the NOBEL prize. From a 4 dimension he reflects patterns on 3D so we may try to get our minds about the massless that becomes a super idea 💡 I am just an ordinary person who loves these topics more than any others .....i was always a dreamer, and it was always hard to make sense of surrounding that seemed quite ugly and ignorant and mean. So i became a space cadet, though lacking a great education , little structure in mathematics, i find Penrose, TUROK, Wheeler , Chardin , etc....helping my space and time travels . This utmost explain also extends me into eternity , a bit like faith and reason in a lovely dance of visible mass and the massless we cant prove . But like father Penrose says “ it is so boring ‘“ to make such a beautiful universe whether created or of quantum fluctuations and have it pop , dissolve , BASTA! Yes those proton know how to make everything , they love to dress up and have no trouble dressing down ......as the structure , THE CONE .......remains . You are like the ice cream on top giving us a mind treat! So happy you exist! Yes that is good advice to others “ DO SOMETHING EXCITING-SOMETHING YOU FIND BEAUTIFUL...not everyone is the same . Our photons love ❤️ to dress up also. It is rather MIND OVER MATTER and in this country of mind we find our truth under the cosmological new FLAG : the Planck cosmic EGG we may all start pledging allegiance to. And not this ignorant meantime that is robbing us of our human kindness, humility, compassion, childlike wonder. Like Einstein said “ iMAGINATION IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN KNOWLEDGE” and i agree he didnt make a blunder , there is something mysteriously ‘CONSTANT” or we could not do physics and we would not have this emperor of AUTHENTIC DRESS; SIR ROGER PENROSE. Thank you
Imagination may get as over our current knowledge. - As I see it or imagine there is not a thing that could be CONSTANT. - I dont see just one cone but 2 cones where one is positive and one is negative , this 2 cones meet at their tips by the middle center where we find the DISK or the neutral part made by the 2 sides(cones) so it has or posses BOTH charges so it may give or take as needed by the cones so it may level the system. If you like to know more about my ideas that came out of DNA or the FLOWER OF LIFE just click my logo to see. Any system must to count with POSITIVE, NEGATIVE and NEUTRAL, if GR see SPACE-TIME as a system it must to count with the 3 CHARGES a thing my self cant see how PRESENT, PAST and FUTURE may BEND same as space with out the 3 charges to produce gravity. Take a look to the video LIGHT DIFFRACTION PRODUCES GRAVITY in my channel. It looks that you and me could get some feed back from one another. thanx.
'do what you think is beautiful, exciting.' that is if you know mathematics and physics. If you are an idiot like Trump, touch nothing, say nothing, or you will destroy the world, not just US or Israel. The beauty is Roger brings time into the three dimension of the world, which ever was the missing point in physics. His twister theory does just that. Two apples is not two, if each one was in different time, say even months. It is intriguing how Roger likes to explain how things work in the world, ignoring how things does work. He explains that saying people do think differently and therefore understanding is a non-explainable process. In the same say, Roger believes consciousness cannot be explained or defined. You could say real mathematicians are the real magicians who know the size of big and small to the degree they can define them precisely and provide you of their pictures too. This one is the real genius of them all. I am sorry I could not follow him up when I found out about his unity theory in 2007. I had too much to read on Cognition and Consciousness.
Dear Roger. I have a new complex number geometry ... Xj + Yi = Q For instance in the old complex number system 3+4i is plotted where 4 lies on the i axis...but now 3j+4i has 4 on the i axis and 3 on the j axis ??? What do you think of this especially if you are also plotting what is Y ?
My understanding is that 3+ 4i involves real and imaginary planes... i and j fall in the same imaginary dimension as x & y fall in same real dimension. (i and j are simply equal to sqrt (-1) Maybe if you are looking for representation of imaginary 3D planes without the real part ...that would be interesting
I clicked on this link, because I thought this was Roger Federer- talking about winning a Nobel laureate, no joke! I saw the face, but maybe it is his 'older wiser self,' wonder what the younger Federer, will think about this, could he implement the Science, and physics, in his tennis, when he comes back, in 2021?
If we run a building neural network to cope with its reign of processing all it can , will it come to see that there is a God ? Or if we provide it all it needs to be large enough to process all it can in a limited set duration...will it have questions of God or have a belief at that stage concerning God ?
It will sound stupid but the thing in QM that finds an atom in 2 places at the same time could not be true, my suggestion here is that electricity must to be way to fast as almost instantaneous all over the universe, electricity comes and goes as what we call Hz so the atom RIDES the in coming and going of the electric flow but the atoms are way to big to get such speed so QM just see the atom in one side when it stops to go the other way and then they see it in the other side when it stops to change direction due for the electric flow so that is why atoms seem to be in 2 places at the same time. - We just se the 300000k/s light speed cause as light reaches such speed is when it JUMPS to the next level that to me must to be of 3000000k/s then it jumps to 30000000 and so on way to fast, as soon it reaches to where it goes in the UP motion then it reverses in the oposite as it came.
Penrose's ideas regarding the universe prior to the big bang are at odds with the majority scientific view which is not to say they are wrong after all the scientific understanding of the universe is far from complete and everybody may be proved wrong but it is interesting to hear him contradicting the majority ideas particularly of the String Theorists and the Multiverse Theories ?
Thanx PI for the up loading of such good content of people. My suggestion is that the stars near the black hole in our galaxie get a jump up of speed due that the stars get hit or get in the way of the STREAM OF WHITE LIGHT OUT PUT FROM OUR GALAXIE, the out put of our galaxie may be done from stars conecting each other as it happens in the EEL FISH, curiously this Eel fish is capable to UNITE a group of cells that we may say they produce or anliste some how they may gather electricity, there is one group of this electric cells to the RIGHT side of the the fish and one to the LEFT SIDE, this 2 sides gather to a tentacle that may kill a grown person with a 220 Volts, the result when hunting is a roasted meal for sure, the 2 groups are surounded by a circle that show a V SHAPE BIRD PICK to the bottom(south) part of the fish picture in the video Al KHALILI- LIGHT 1 OF 2, same figure or PATTERN is seen in a HIDROGEN GALAXIE in you tube in the video from the EU called HALTON HARP INTRINSIC RED SHIEFT; in a video of mine called THE FLOWER OF LIFE OR DNA DECODED that discrives an old time maybe Linda s Francklin times DNA PICTURE found in you tube in the video DNA PHOTOGRAPH BY X RAY DIFRACTION, such dna picture is an sphere that encircles a second bigger circle which I call the INSIDE CIRCLE that as well has 2 BIRD PICKS; the same pick pattern is seen in the SOUTH POLE WALL in a video from WHAT DA MATH from a WONDERFULL PERSON, the video is called WE FOUND ONE OF THE LARGESTS STRUCTURES IN THE UNIVERSE SOUTH POLE WALL in you tube at time 4:18 right where the word LEPUS bottom part is found. The EU taks of this V shape thing that as well is seen in the Aztecs SUN CALLENDER at north and south of the inside circle. - all stars are connected one to another in same form of that of the Eel fish in our galaxie, the out put of the galaxie is what we see as the EVENT HORIZON breaking through that as well is part of the jet that must to come out of it so when stars from near the OUT PUT STREAM from the galaxie get to near the stream they get a SLIGH JUMP from the energy-matter stream from the galaxie so for me it is not a BH inside galaxies but the union of out put from stars that make up the galaxie the out stream from the galaxie must to be the same cone shape as the jet of light seen in quasars so just figure it out by the point from where they get the jump from and coul come to be a CONE FORM from where they get the little kick.
The Torpedo fish explanation from above is found in the video: SHOCK AND AWE: THE STORY OF ELECTRICITY - JIM-AL-KHALILI- BBC HORIZON at time 30:11 and 30:34.
I'd like to call this the Statesman Problem. What are the physics and mathematics of Joy ... As an object then what of this abounding collection of persons subjected almost as if innocent to a wall of jealousy and how it happens as a physics and even mathematics...what about that Roger and use complex numbers or define a new geometry or field. Remember Y=X is on input value. Z=X+iY is a to value input and of course j and k orthogonals as further inputs. A measurand into Xñ+1 it's derivative and then the expression in a time t are evaluators. Have a go Rodger ... And see what you come up with ? Tell Texas Instruments if you have it. I will update my Ti-Nspire calculator software.
Where does QM require something to exist independent of observation? That is just an assumption he is making to "conclude" that QM is incomplete. QM is complete, his assumption is wrong.
Analizzo per la prima volta questo penrose che non ho seguito quasi mai si inizia nuova teoria inventata da me e più interessante blob su raitre delle tue affermazioni alle materne sir di niente al 2
"Big and small are equivalent", Big is dual to small. Equivalence, similarity = duality. Apples fall to the ground because they are conserving duality. Potential energy is dual to kinetic energy, the conservation of duality converts potential energy into kinetic energy. Positive curvature is dual to negative curvature -- Gauss, Riemann geometry. Gravitation or curvature is therefore dual. Gravitation is equivalent or dual to acceleration -- Einstein's happiest thought, the principle of equivalence (duality). Space is dual to time -- Einstein. Energy is dual to mass -- Einstein. Dark energy is dual to dark matter. "Always two there are" -- Yoda. Measurements are turned into predictions = Syntropy or maximized mutual information -- Shannon information theory. Syntropy (prediction) is dual to increasing entropy -- the 4th law of thermodynamics. Teleological physics is dual to non-teleological physics (entropy). "Through imagination and reason we turn experience into foresight (prediction)" -- Spinoza describing syntropy. Thesis is dual to anti-thesis creates converging thesis or synthesis -- the time independent Hegelian dialectic. Hegel's cat: Alive (thesis, being) is dual to not alive (anti-thesis, non-being) -- Schrodinger's cat. Plato's cat: Being is dual to non-being creates becoming. Schrodinger's cat is based upon Hegel's cat which is based upon Plato's cat! God (thesis) is dual to the Christ consciousness (anti-thesis) creates the holy spirit or the soul (synthesis). The intellectual soul is dual to the sensory soul -- Thomas Aquinas. Christianity is based upon duality. Noumenal (rational, analytic) is dual to phenomenal (empirical, synthetic) -- Immanuel Kant. The future is dual to the past creates the present or the now -- time duality.
I believe that the key to Roger's CCC is the notion that time ends when all mass has decayed into massless radiation eg when massless particles such as photons are all that is left in the universe. So, two equations relate: e=mc^2 Eg, mass and energy are equivalent; but also, E= hν (h for planks constant and v for frequency) eg Energy and Frequency are equivalent. Now, atomic clocks measure time because the elements used have a precise frequency that doesn't alter. However, all elements have an atomic mass, so have a frequency. Rearranging, hv = mc^2 becomes v = m×(c 2/h). Thus, without mass, frequency ends, and time ends. Roger describes the photon as having no concept of distance. This is based on the notion that distance = speed/time. Now, if one accepts the principle that the speed of light in a vacuum never changes, then if all mass decays, time in d=s/t will tend towards and maybe reach 0. In order for c (speed of light) to remain constant ie in the formula c= distance / time, if time tends towards zero, so must distance. Hence in CCC, as universal mass decays towards nothing, the distance across the universe must do likewise, leading perhaps to a singularity. If for any reason, the speed of light did change, CCC would be dead as a theory if the circumstances where the speed of light in a vacuum changes were shown to be in the distant future Googles of years from now, as that would remove the space contraction element which allows one aeon to lead to the next big bang.
@@dougmarkham Photons do not experience time from our perspective -- special relativity. There is no difference between big and small distances in the photons inertial frame or big and small are the same. Same is dual to difference. Space, distance, length is a dual concept. Up is dual to down left is dual to right. In is dual to out. Space is dual to time -- Einstein. Space duality is dual to time duality! The conservation of duality (energy) -- the 5th law of thermodynamics. Dark energy is dual to dark matter
@@dougmarkham The velocity of light is the same and equal for all observers which means that is conforms to a principle of objective democracy. Objective or proper 100% democracy is therefore the scientific definition of democracy and it is hardwired into the physics. The laws of physics are the same for all observers everywhere.
The universe, nature, reality via the laws of physics continually conserves objective democracy at all times, there has never been a deviation from this fundamentally important principle and there never will be. Objective democracy is dual to subjective democracy! Democracy is a dual concept. Pure energy or light is 100% democratic, an absolute or an objective truth!
EXPANDING UNIVERSE IN HOLY QUR'AN MENTIONED1450 YEARS AGO. Who can claim 1450 years ago that the universe is expanding? والسماء بنينها بايد و إنا لموسعون o " And the heaven We built it with power, and indeed, We are the expander " (And We it is Who make the vast extent, thereof ) (Qur'an, 51:47) it has been expanding from the moment of its creation not when it described in Qur'an. Until 1931, physicist Albert Einstein believed that the universe was static. American astronomer Edwin Hubble showed Einstein his observations of redshift in the light emitted by far away nebulae - galaxies. When Edwin Hubble explained that the universe is expanding, Einstein called his view of the cosmological constant the "greatest blunder." It is clearly mentioned by Almighty Allah as one of His signs in above verse. It's study , research and explanation was left for researchers in future. It is not a " new scientific discovery of all time" as they claim. It is not " the greatest discovery of 20th century", as Stephen Hawking said. Almighty Allah says: " Should He not know what He created? And He is the Subtile, the Aware." (Qur'an,67:14) The knowledge of scientists is limited and it is not justified to reject the existence of Almighty Allah relying on little knowledge. There are many signs of Almighty Allah mentioned in Holy Qur'an 1500 years ago. The modern science knew them recently. Ofcourse the efforts the scientists are have been making for understanding the universe are appreciable and praise worthy. We are grateful to them. DR.MOHAMMAD LAEEQUE NADVI Ph.D. (Arabic Lit.) M.A. Arabic Lit.+Persian Lit)Urdu Writer DIRECTOR Amena Institute of Islamic Studies & Analysis A Global & Universal Research Institute, Donate to promote this Institute SBI A/C30029616117 Kolkata,Park Circus Branch nadvilaeeque@gmail.com Thanks
this must be a joke. In one of his books he lamented about how AI cant ever be like us because we have a soul and AI i presume cant have a soul; just like church was telling about animals for centuries, so we end up destroying everything around us.
Now that is not accurate. Roger Penrose's ideas on quantum consciousness is that microtubules supporting axons and structures in neurons are the source of conscious experience, not the action potential across axons connecting neurons themselves. There are very credible experiments showing that quantum effects can be shown in a specific type of microtubule. Since this work, the notion has gone from wild conjecture to very interesting theory. Experts in neurology and in physics are beginning to look at this idea seriously, whereas before experimental data on microtubules, it was seen more than a bit wacky.
@@dougmarkham A computer scientist and quantum biologist are racing. Who will be first to make a creature with consciousness? Why is there no AI machine that comes to conclusion "I think therefore I am"? Because computer scientist is sloppy and has been to this day. Sir Penrose have noticed they didn't made the proper soul with this machine, but there is more to the background of this development I believe. That is also why hopes are laid on to biologist now, he should now finish the race by making a mechanical creature instead of virtual one. That's about as difficult as making trees sing Beethoven. It won't happen soon.
@Carol Binkley there is no enigma in counsciousness. Its just a feedback information, thats all that is . It can be refined, with lots of data like in human, or limited, for ex. only about a type of surface you are attached or is in front of you, like in a slug . And concerning AI, we are all a kind of mechanism, there is nothing crucially different between us and AI, only in sophistication level (for now.)and type of hardware that it is built on; so Penrose's phantasies about human as something special, is just a magical thinking probably influenced by christianity or some other similar type of popular sef-delusions; and thats why he was Nobel, laurate, after all as things are going now, we (meaning norvegian elite) dont want the money to end up with some communist
89. Amazing man. True gift to humanity.
When Freeman J. Dyson died at age 96 this year my heart was ripped into pieces. He took with him a small part of me. Ahh God... May Sir Roger live even longer
@@Nameless.Friend i just read your message, while listening to this interview first time. I want to say the same pray in my message - and if God exists - wish he could have given us at least an option that we could contribute part of our life times say a fraction in order to have our humanity's pride like Sir Penrose for long long time with us - healthy and happy !
Well deserved Nobel Sir Roger...love your passion. Very happy for you.
Why would one downvote this? A brilliant mind passionately and eloquently talking about the nature of our universe.
Probably those who did not win the Noble prize and were nominees 😊
I could tell you... but... it's too many to bother... the big bang never happened; black holes don't exist; time is not a dimension; we can't join space and time it's apples and oranges... ... ... such a big lag time for people to catch up and update or they don't want to...
Having enemies is one of the requirements of being right
Elcordinho
, you have your answer, physics cranks.
Edit: After looking through one of their profiles, also full blown misinformed conspiracy nuts.
How about making a Q&A video without the Q !!!
A humble man. A delight for any interviewer. If only we had leaders with such kindness and humility.
Roger seems absolutely relaxed, given the time and space to give considered detailed responses to a multitude of questions.
Thank you. 🤓
Of course, Roger is a brilliant tennis player, his 'older self,' from the future, is always relaxed, he's taking a wiser form, and deserves the award!
Sincere congratulations Sir Roger. As a fellow Englishman albeit with only a BSc in Physics, I have long regarded you as the greatest living Physicist. I also have problems with quantum physics and the artificial inflation theory. I really understand and like your idea of Aeons. It is extremely satisfying. I think that no one deserves to be a Nobel Laureate more than you. The Emperor's new mind really drove me into physics. I simply HAD to know more. So thanks very much and once again my sincere congratulations for a long deserved Nobel prize.
It's great fun listening to someone who is considered in their language, and Sir Roger definitely ticks that box!!!! It's like the antidote to politics!
He has a beautiful mind and is so interesting to listen. Congratulations to Sir Roger for the well deserved acknowledgment.
This must be so inspiring for young people interested in a career in physics. So many interesting open problems waiting to be solved. I highly recommend his popular science books such as Fashion, faith and fantasy.
I'm a physics undergrad, he is certainly a physicist that I look up to, along with Richard Feynman. Though obviously Feynman is dead it helps one appreciate the great minds that we still have among us today (Such as Sir Penrose) that people often take for granted in this society as a whole.
I remember it took me 3 days worth of continuous reading of Rogers tome, ''The Road to Reality'', a great man with a superb brain.
@Carol Binkley 3 days but about 14 hours per day, and I read fast. My technique is to read but don't slow down to think, then I'll selectively go back to refresh. I've read a lot of Roger's work and know his style quite well.
A living legend who have contributed so much to mathematics and theoretical physic.
But I thought he already had a Nobel Prize? 😎
This was just so incredible. Pure genius. The ideas were just flowing non-stop.
Sir Penrose seems like such a nice person...
He certainly is a special Gentleman,called Prof Sir Roger Penrose, OM,KBE,FRS
Now Nobel Laureate for Physics
@Carol Binkley
Indeed but his Fellowship of the Royal Society and Nobel Prize are evidence that he his is one of the greatest Minds alive!
@Carol Binkley
I actually agreed with you that Titles are ridiculous as Feynman said!
I apologise if you misconstrued my Comments..I was just expressing clarity ..be safe tc
@Carol Binkley
Perhaps not ridiculous..but Feynman didn't like what they implied: class differences,which he loathed ..I agree and I'm English tcx
@Carol Binkley
America appears terrified of Socialism as they conflate it with Communism(never really tested)..wasnt Christ a Socialist yet America claims to be Christian Nation, ha tcx
An astonishing man, an extraordinary mind, and what a fascinating and informative interview. I was intrigued by his comment about being a ' visual ' person. At school, in the late 1950`s, 1960`s, I had extreme difficulty understanding geometry, as the standard teaching method was a one size for all. It wasn`t until I began to use computers, and 3-D software, that I could, visually manipulate and rotate complex geometric shapes, then understanding just flooded in, the explanations made sense at long last. Thank you for this wonderful interview.
Sir we will always be proud of you, and we will always be infinitely obliged to you
Thanks for uploading this interview related and confined to Sir Roger's perspective about physics. A pleasing experience to hear him expressing himself in a calm friendly way.
Well deserved Nobel prize. Congratulations.
Nice one! He was my father's PhD supervisor... top chap, apparently.
I can't help thinking that in years to come Roger will be remembered most for pointing out (unfashionably, back in 1985) some solid reasons why consciousness is NOT merely computation - and that it is more than an emergent property of having enough compute, data and some decent code...
Anyway - well done!
@Peter Yeadon: yes, very glad to see Penrose recognized with a Nobel, not that his place in modern math + physics will ever be in doubt.
He was recognised only for his work on prediction of black holes. His work on consciousness is highly controversial and considered to be fallacious by most people trained in logic.
@@holliswilliams8426 Well, it appears that greatness will always have an element of the fantastical to it, as witnessed by Newton's fascination with alchemy, or Kepler's interest in the mystical possibilities of his classifications of polyhedra. As for Penrose, his work in applied mathematics / physics will be his lasting contribution, but that's not to say that his speculations in other areas will not also bear fruit, independent of whether he is right or wrong in the particulars.
There are things we can't know about the universe but we don't know what they are. The best we can do is to fund the questions that may be answerable and build on that knowledge.
Einstein spoke truth to power by disregarding the Aether theory and thinking completely outside the box. Sir Roger is of the same mold, here he questions QM as being incorrect when the modern-day consensus is that it's General Relativity that's wrong and needs to be quantized to agree with QM.
At 89 years of age, his thinking is still outside the box. How refreshing!
Penrose and Hawking should have been awarded the Nobel Physics Prize together years earlier, they deserve it. Sadly, Hawking missed..
Nobel prize can't be awarded to the deceased
Hi, dear Mr. Tan Boon Tee. Excellent point you made there. Both are highly deserving. But I just feel they should both be lone recipients - one in a particular year, and the other in another year. Unshared, i guess that is the word I am looking for and have found
@@aravindssingapore4327
I share your view..
That was so interesting. Thank you. And Congratulations to Sir Roger Penrose on becoming a Nobel Laureate!
I am glad Penrose got a Nobel: He would point out when he sees “deux ex machina” getting involved in theories while some others loudly recite the party line.
DEUS ex machina, dear Engin, with an "s" being the last letter of deus, instead of x as in deux. But that is an excellent point you made
@Carol Binkley 🙏😂
I would give a lot of things just for a 30 min talk with him. What a remarkable person and a brilliant mind!
I am amazed that one man with the same physical brain as others can produce so much more.Perhaps that could be a subject for study?
Did you know he once wanted to be a brain surgeon for the express purpose of finding out how the bastard thing worked?
Most heartfelt congratulations to you, dear Sir. I believe you are a great inspiration to the world as much as you are a blessing to mankind.
Sincerest thanks for your invaluable contributions to science, and I am truly over the moon for you. You are great in your own right, and a blazing light of inspiration
Great scientist ever 😍😍😍
I know the basics, but I'm neither qualified nor knowledgeable enough in QM, so I'll take Rogers word for it that something's still missing.
Thanks for uploading this interview! I could listen to Roger for hours, although I suspect I don't know enough that I could do a good job at interviewing him. 🙂
Great physicist. Well deserved. Proud of you Sir
Congrats Sir Penrose! Um grande abraço do Brasil.
Pure gold
A genius, i love his theories
Greatest physicist since Dirac. So happy for him!
Hawking tho
But agree
If you think Hawking is one of the greatest physicists then your knowledge of physics must be very limited
Getting a noble prize is like creating a history Respect 🙏🙏
Such wonderful minds and as far as I'm aware there's no general subject at school level which might invigorate young students.
Congrats Penrose! I love you😍
What a nice chap.
Fascinating speech by Roger !!
Congratulations Sir
I hope to live as long as he has and when I get to that age I shall be lucky to still be as productive as he is.
Thank you for this thoughtful, thought provoking Q&A. A true pleasure to experience.
Just watched his podcast with Lex Fridman twice. Brilliant man
What I'm pointing out is the value for Y is used to graph on the i axis which poses what is j
Great man !
🌴😎💯I like his new ideas on Aeons. Congrats Sir Roger.🏆
Interesting, what Dr. Penrose said about visual factors in the mind and a commonality he found amongst mathematicians. I'm a retired software engineer, with no visual memory. Meaning, I can't store images... an anti-photographic memory. When he mentioned that I nearly jumped out of my skin. Instead, I'm writing this. Such a giant of human history and I share commonality, wow! LOL!
That would be a fascinating field of study on the human brain. I know where I can find an interested individual to begin that study! (Hint, he's the star of this video).
Alas, my research life ended.
Love him
He is a brilliant man. The questions, not so much. In fact I would say that some of them are downright stupid. What's your favorite shame, your favorite algorithm. Go get a life
In the commutative sense iY is multiplication in algebra. But Y is given its value to I in the plane...how can we explain this !
Neglecting to question Quantum Mechanics means throwing the towel on Physics advance
Instead we got to know "his favorite compositon"...
A total gentleman.
Roger could time and gravity be emergent products of the colapse of superposition. I.e. the universe exists because of it's inherent probability and subsiquent resolution of potential into outcomes in reality.
Well done!
Listening to this while tired. I wonder if the creation of mass and the creation of space are synonymous, ie you can't have one without the other. So the conundrum of 10^100 years passing as black holes evaporate, resulting in space 'forgetting' that it was big, is really a matter of space, effectively by definition, ceasing to exist when mass disappears (or at least de-naturing itself back into some proto form in which all that exists is entanglement), so that it gets re-created as mass is made again. And mass is made again because the massless state, with no space, is inherently unstable, and decays into the complex mess we call space-time, containing mass. So the Inflationary Period is an outpouring of space consequent on the creation of mass, the key clue being that the energy wrapped up in mass is equal to the energy required to separate all masses from one another, ie to eliminate the gravity well. Now I will go back to sleep.
We can science quantum mechanics but we can't make a Q&A video including in the questions !
Can anyone say why he got Nobel prize
Understanding ? Makes me think of the Beatles song " Because" !
Brilliant
Having trouble with inflation? the universe blew out at from 10^-31 seconds to something huge (well above lightspeed, but that is managed away by explaining away the 'size' just increased).
Glad to hear mr Penrose too has his doubts. :-)
At 10:10 and on, Roger clearly speaks (in his distinguished and polite English) way: Inflation is a poor theory.
Another theory is that I am waaay too stupid to understand inflating universe.
مبين انسان محترم جداً
Here is the emporer with humble. clothes , a shinnig star child-like mind, filled with courage to say something that Q.M. is not quite right but it sustains for now.
i love the fact he is a visual and abstract thinker. i love his little cute drawings on transparent films . his authentic way of answering , always surprises me, like he comes from another where , from some emperial landscape . there is this super position about you and it is so very fine this acknowledgement the world honors you with the NOBEL prize.
From a 4 dimension he reflects patterns on 3D so we may try to get our minds about the massless that becomes a super idea 💡
I am just an ordinary person who loves these topics more than any others .....i was always a dreamer, and it was always hard to make sense of surrounding that seemed quite ugly and ignorant and mean. So i became a space cadet, though lacking a great education , little structure in mathematics, i find Penrose, TUROK, Wheeler , Chardin , etc....helping my space and time travels . This utmost explain also extends me into eternity , a bit like faith and reason in a lovely dance of visible mass and the massless we cant prove .
But like father Penrose says “ it is so boring ‘“ to make such a beautiful universe whether created or of quantum fluctuations and have it pop , dissolve , BASTA!
Yes those proton know how to make everything , they love to dress up and have no trouble dressing down ......as the structure , THE CONE .......remains . You are like the ice cream on top giving us a mind treat! So happy you exist!
Yes that is good advice to others “ DO SOMETHING EXCITING-SOMETHING YOU FIND BEAUTIFUL...not everyone is the same . Our photons love ❤️ to dress up also. It is rather MIND OVER MATTER and in this country of mind we find our truth under the cosmological new FLAG : the Planck cosmic EGG we may all start pledging allegiance to.
And not this ignorant meantime that is robbing us of our human kindness, humility, compassion, childlike wonder.
Like Einstein said “ iMAGINATION IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN KNOWLEDGE” and i agree he didnt make a blunder , there is something mysteriously ‘CONSTANT” or we could not do physics and we would not have this emperor of AUTHENTIC DRESS; SIR ROGER PENROSE. Thank you
Imagination may get as over our current knowledge. - As I see it or imagine there is not a thing that could be CONSTANT. - I dont see just one cone but 2 cones where one is positive and one is negative , this 2 cones meet at their tips by the middle center where we find the DISK or the neutral part made by the 2 sides(cones) so it has or posses BOTH charges so it may give or take as needed by the cones so it may level the system. If you like to know more about my ideas that came out of DNA or the FLOWER OF LIFE just click my logo to see. Any system must to count with POSITIVE, NEGATIVE and NEUTRAL, if GR see SPACE-TIME as a system it must to count with the 3 CHARGES a thing my self cant see how PRESENT, PAST and FUTURE may BEND same as space with out the 3 charges to produce gravity.
Take a look to the video LIGHT DIFFRACTION PRODUCES GRAVITY in my channel. It looks that you and me could get some feed back from one another. thanx.
Does it mean that our big bang was originally created by the 'evaporation' of a previous Universe?
'do what you think is beautiful, exciting.' that is if you know mathematics and physics. If you are an idiot like Trump, touch nothing, say nothing, or you will destroy the world, not just US or Israel.
The beauty is Roger brings time into the three dimension of the world, which ever was the missing point in physics. His twister theory does just that.
Two apples is not two, if each one was in different time, say even months.
It is intriguing how Roger likes to explain how things work in the world, ignoring how things does work. He explains that saying people do think differently and therefore understanding is a non-explainable process. In the same say, Roger believes consciousness cannot be explained or defined.
You could say real mathematicians are the real magicians who know the size of big and small to the degree they can define them precisely and provide you of their pictures too. This one is the real genius of them all.
I am sorry I could not follow him up when I found out about his unity theory in 2007. I had too much to read on Cognition and Consciousness.
Dear Roger. I have a new complex number geometry ... Xj + Yi = Q
For instance in the old complex number system 3+4i is plotted where 4 lies on the i axis...but now 3j+4i has 4 on the i axis and 3 on the j axis ??? What do you think of this especially if you are also plotting what is Y ?
My understanding is that 3+ 4i involves real and imaginary planes... i and j fall in the same imaginary dimension as x & y fall in same real dimension. (i and j are simply equal to sqrt (-1)
Maybe if you are looking for representation of imaginary 3D planes without the real part ...that would be interesting
Spyroe theory is a complete framework to explain quantum gravity
I clicked on this link, because I thought this was Roger Federer- talking about winning a Nobel laureate, no joke! I saw the face, but maybe it is his 'older wiser self,' wonder what the younger Federer, will think about this, could he implement the Science, and physics, in his tennis, when he comes back, in 2021?
My boy Penrose straight stuntin on y’all bs reality!
If we run a building neural network to cope with its reign of processing all it can , will it come to see that there is a God ? Or if we provide it all it needs to be large enough to process all it can in a limited set duration...will it have questions of God or have a belief at that stage concerning God ?
My suggestion is that the CMB is light refracted from the systems electromagnetism that they posses.
Pentagram 🤟
It will sound stupid but the thing in QM that finds an atom in 2 places at the same time could not be true, my suggestion here is that electricity must to be way to fast as almost instantaneous all over the universe, electricity comes and goes as what we call Hz so the atom RIDES the in coming and going of the electric flow but the atoms are way to big to get such speed so QM just see the atom in one side when it stops to go the other way and then they see it in the other side when it stops to change direction due for the electric flow so that is why atoms seem to be in 2 places at the same time. - We just se the 300000k/s light speed cause as light reaches such speed is when it JUMPS to the next level that to me must to be of 3000000k/s then it jumps to 30000000 and so on way to fast, as soon it reaches to where it goes in the UP motion then it reverses in the oposite as it came.
@Carol Binkley what is about the math?
romanian version- original-vocealiterara.ning.com/blog/poemul-vindecarii-umanitatii-in-marea-cautare-a-luminii-pacii-cu-
Penrose's ideas regarding the universe prior to the big bang are at odds with the majority scientific view which is not to say they are wrong after all the scientific understanding of the universe is far from complete and everybody may be proved wrong but it is interesting to hear him contradicting the majority ideas particularly of the String Theorists and the Multiverse Theories ?
yes, but into it self
Penrose won instead of hawking... interesting
Hawking died.. He cannot be nominated
Thanx PI for the up loading of such good content of people. My suggestion is that the stars near the black hole in our galaxie get a jump up of speed due that the stars get hit or get in the way of the STREAM OF WHITE LIGHT OUT PUT FROM OUR GALAXIE, the out put of our galaxie may be done from stars conecting each other as it happens in the EEL FISH, curiously this Eel fish is capable to UNITE a group of cells that we may say they produce or anliste some how they may gather electricity, there is one group of this electric cells to the RIGHT side of the the fish and one to the LEFT SIDE, this 2 sides gather to a tentacle that may kill a grown person with a 220 Volts, the result when hunting is a roasted meal for sure, the 2 groups are surounded by a circle that show a V SHAPE BIRD PICK to the bottom(south) part of the fish picture in the video Al KHALILI- LIGHT 1 OF 2, same figure or PATTERN is seen in a HIDROGEN GALAXIE in you tube in the video from the EU called HALTON HARP INTRINSIC RED SHIEFT; in a video of mine called THE FLOWER OF LIFE OR DNA DECODED that discrives an old time maybe Linda s Francklin times DNA PICTURE found in you tube in the video DNA PHOTOGRAPH BY X RAY DIFRACTION, such dna picture is an sphere that encircles a second bigger circle which I call the INSIDE CIRCLE that as well has 2 BIRD PICKS; the same pick pattern is seen in the SOUTH POLE WALL in a video from WHAT DA MATH from a WONDERFULL PERSON, the video is called WE FOUND ONE OF THE LARGESTS STRUCTURES IN THE UNIVERSE SOUTH POLE WALL in you tube at time 4:18 right where the word LEPUS bottom part is found. The EU taks of this V shape thing that as well is seen in the Aztecs SUN CALLENDER at north and south of the inside circle. - all stars are connected one to another in same form of that of the Eel fish in our galaxie, the out put of the galaxie is what we see as the EVENT HORIZON breaking through that as well is part of the jet that must to come out of it so when stars from near the OUT PUT STREAM from the galaxie get to near the stream they get a SLIGH JUMP from the energy-matter stream from the galaxie so for me it is not a BH inside galaxies but the union of out put from stars that make up the galaxie the out stream from the galaxie must to be the same cone shape as the jet of light seen in quasars so just figure it out by the point from where they get the jump from and coul come to be a CONE FORM from where they get the little kick.
I made a mistake in this comment about the Eel fish which is not the one I ment to say, the one that I ment is the STINGRAY FISH or the torpedo fish.
The Torpedo fish explanation from above is found in the video: SHOCK AND AWE: THE STORY OF ELECTRICITY - JIM-AL-KHALILI- BBC HORIZON at time 30:11 and 30:34.
The Cat t.exp. was to show how ridiculous the notion was
Penrose is wrong. Brain is a formal digital computer.
Is Saturn the world out there, the solar system out there, or the universe out there, which is it ?
Penrose has no factual science.
The good thing is, he's open minded !
🌹🌻🥰
i know why the universe is expanding
10:56
10³² has 33 digits :)
I'd like to call this the Statesman Problem. What are the physics and mathematics of Joy ... As an object then what of this abounding collection of persons subjected almost as if innocent to a wall of jealousy and how it happens as a physics and even mathematics...what about that Roger and use complex numbers or define a new geometry or field. Remember Y=X is on input value. Z=X+iY is a to value input and of course j and k orthogonals as further inputs. A measurand into Xñ+1 it's derivative and then the expression in a time t are evaluators.
Have a go Rodger ... And see what you come up with ? Tell Texas Instruments if you have it. I will update my Ti-Nspire calculator software.
Where does QM require something to exist independent of observation? That is just an assumption he is making to "conclude" that QM is incomplete. QM is complete, his assumption is wrong.
Analizzo per la prima volta questo penrose che non ho seguito quasi mai si inizia nuova teoria inventata da me e più interessante blob su raitre delle tue affermazioni alle materne sir di niente al 2
I wonder if Roger boxed when younger? His nose bent.
Plot y=i+x , z=y+i.x
"Big and small are equivalent", Big is dual to small. Equivalence, similarity = duality.
Apples fall to the ground because they are conserving duality.
Potential energy is dual to kinetic energy, the conservation of duality converts potential energy into kinetic energy.
Positive curvature is dual to negative curvature -- Gauss, Riemann geometry.
Gravitation or curvature is therefore dual.
Gravitation is equivalent or dual to acceleration -- Einstein's happiest thought, the principle of equivalence (duality).
Space is dual to time -- Einstein.
Energy is dual to mass -- Einstein.
Dark energy is dual to dark matter.
"Always two there are" -- Yoda.
Measurements are turned into predictions = Syntropy or maximized mutual information -- Shannon information theory.
Syntropy (prediction) is dual to increasing entropy -- the 4th law of thermodynamics.
Teleological physics is dual to non-teleological physics (entropy).
"Through imagination and reason we turn experience into foresight (prediction)" -- Spinoza describing syntropy.
Thesis is dual to anti-thesis creates converging thesis or synthesis -- the time independent Hegelian dialectic.
Hegel's cat: Alive (thesis, being) is dual to not alive (anti-thesis, non-being) -- Schrodinger's cat.
Plato's cat: Being is dual to non-being creates becoming.
Schrodinger's cat is based upon Hegel's cat which is based upon Plato's cat!
God (thesis) is dual to the Christ consciousness (anti-thesis) creates the holy spirit or the soul (synthesis).
The intellectual soul is dual to the sensory soul -- Thomas Aquinas.
Christianity is based upon duality.
Noumenal (rational, analytic) is dual to phenomenal (empirical, synthetic) -- Immanuel Kant.
The future is dual to the past creates the present or the now -- time duality.
I believe that the key to Roger's CCC is the notion that time ends when all mass has decayed into massless radiation eg when massless particles such as photons are all that is left in the universe.
So, two equations relate: e=mc^2
Eg, mass and energy are equivalent; but also, E= hν (h for planks constant and v for frequency) eg Energy and Frequency are equivalent.
Now, atomic clocks measure time because the elements used have a precise frequency that doesn't alter. However, all elements have an atomic mass, so have a frequency.
Rearranging, hv = mc^2 becomes v = m×(c 2/h). Thus, without mass, frequency ends, and time ends.
Roger describes the photon as having no concept of distance. This is based on the notion that distance = speed/time. Now, if one accepts the principle that the speed of light in a vacuum never changes, then if all mass decays, time in d=s/t will tend towards and maybe reach 0. In order for c (speed of light) to remain constant ie in the formula c= distance / time, if time tends towards zero, so must distance.
Hence in CCC, as universal mass decays towards nothing, the distance across the universe must do likewise, leading perhaps to a singularity.
If for any reason, the speed of light did change, CCC would be dead as a theory if the circumstances where the speed of light in a vacuum changes were shown to be in the distant future Googles of years from now, as that would remove the space contraction element which allows one aeon to lead to the next big bang.
@@dougmarkham Photons do not experience time from our perspective -- special relativity.
There is no difference between big and small distances in the photons inertial frame or big and small are the same. Same is dual to difference.
Space, distance, length is a dual concept.
Up is dual to down
left is dual to right.
In is dual to out.
Space is dual to time -- Einstein.
Space duality is dual to time duality!
The conservation of duality (energy) -- the 5th law of thermodynamics.
Dark energy is dual to dark matter
@@dougmarkham The velocity of light is the same and equal for all observers which means that is conforms to a principle of objective democracy.
Objective or proper 100% democracy is therefore the scientific definition of democracy and it is hardwired into the physics. The laws of physics are the same for all observers everywhere.
The universe, nature, reality via the laws of physics continually conserves objective democracy at all times, there has never been a deviation from this fundamentally important principle and there never will be.
Objective democracy is dual to subjective democracy! Democracy is a dual concept.
Pure energy or light is 100% democratic, an absolute or an objective truth!
EXPANDING UNIVERSE IN HOLY QUR'AN MENTIONED1450 YEARS AGO.
Who can claim 1450 years ago that the universe is expanding?
والسماء بنينها بايد و إنا لموسعون o
" And the heaven We built it with power, and indeed, We are the expander "
(And We it is Who make the vast extent, thereof )
(Qur'an, 51:47)
it has been expanding from the moment of its creation not when it described in Qur'an.
Until 1931, physicist Albert Einstein believed that the universe was static.
American astronomer Edwin Hubble showed Einstein his observations of redshift in the light emitted by far away nebulae - galaxies.
When Edwin Hubble explained that the universe is expanding, Einstein called his view of the cosmological constant the "greatest blunder."
It is clearly mentioned by Almighty Allah as one of His signs in above verse.
It's study , research and explanation was left for researchers in future.
It is not a " new scientific discovery of all time" as they claim. It is not
" the greatest discovery of 20th century", as Stephen Hawking said.
Almighty Allah says:
" Should He not know what He created? And He is the Subtile,
the Aware." (Qur'an,67:14)
The knowledge of scientists is limited and it is not justified to reject the existence of Almighty Allah relying on little knowledge.
There are many signs of Almighty Allah mentioned in Holy Qur'an 1500 years ago. The modern science knew them recently.
Ofcourse the efforts the scientists are have been making for understanding the universe are appreciable and praise worthy.
We are grateful to them.
DR.MOHAMMAD LAEEQUE NADVI
Ph.D. (Arabic Lit.) M.A. Arabic Lit.+Persian Lit)Urdu Writer
DIRECTOR
Amena Institute of Islamic Studies & Analysis
A Global & Universal Research Institute,
Donate to promote this Institute
SBI A/C30029616117
Kolkata,Park Circus Branch
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Thanks
this must be a joke. In one of his books he lamented about how AI cant ever be like us because we have a soul and AI i presume cant have a soul; just like church was telling about animals for centuries, so we end up destroying everything around us.
Now that is not accurate. Roger Penrose's ideas on quantum consciousness is that microtubules supporting axons and structures in neurons are the source of conscious experience, not the action potential across axons connecting neurons themselves. There are very credible experiments showing that quantum effects can be shown in a specific type of microtubule. Since this work, the notion has gone from wild conjecture to very interesting theory. Experts in neurology and in physics are beginning to look at this idea seriously, whereas before experimental data on microtubules, it was seen more than a bit wacky.
@@dougmarkham A computer scientist and quantum biologist are racing. Who will be first to make a creature with consciousness?
Why is there no AI machine that comes to conclusion "I think therefore I am"? Because computer scientist is sloppy and has been to this day. Sir Penrose have noticed they didn't made the proper soul with this machine, but there is more to the background of this development I believe.
That is also why hopes are laid on to biologist now, he should now finish the race by making a mechanical creature instead of virtual one. That's about as difficult as making trees sing Beethoven. It won't happen soon.
@Carol Binkley there is no enigma in counsciousness. Its just a feedback information, thats all that is . It can be refined, with lots of data like in human, or limited, for ex. only about a type of surface you are attached or is in front of you, like in a slug .
And concerning AI, we are all a kind of mechanism, there is nothing crucially different between us and AI, only in sophistication level (for now.)and type of hardware that it is built on; so Penrose's phantasies about human as something special, is just a magical thinking probably influenced by christianity or some other similar type of popular sef-delusions; and thats why he was Nobel, laurate, after all as things are going now, we (meaning norvegian elite) dont want the money to end up with some communist
Congratulations Sir