I have worked on a three of these. Saved 1 by reheating the DSP. The other two didnt recover. You know the DSP works when the speaker array icon comes on the display. I enjoyed watching you reballing the chip.
Hi Trevor. My name is Neil. I'm in the UK. Congrats on a fantastic video. I have a 414 that had the same issue, it took 3 attempts to get it to work, on the 3rd attempt just using liquid flux and heat I had heat gun on max setting 450c directly over chip for 30 seconds, i was certain I had cooked it but its still working to this day... that was 3 years ago....looking forward to part 2. I'm not sure, though if these dsp chips have to be programmed to the unit. Thanks Trevor.
You are very brave for even trying to fix this unit. These were designed to fail. I watched Dave use a halogen bulb on that chip for 1/2 an hour to save the amp. Can you switch the input signal from digital to analog input? Some will not auto detect. If you repair it....add a heat sink and a computer fan to pull heat. I run one externally on my Yamaha RX-v1500. It runs very cool with the fan on its lowest setting. The fan has a variable control knob. Got it from memory express.
It's more of a learning experience for me incase I get more of these from clients. I can fix a small aluminum heatsink to the chip with thermal epoxy if I get this one fixed
BGA is a pain, sorry it didn't work out for you this time Trevor. Looking forward to the follow-up. Foam Q-tips save a lot of clean-up, they're not as absorbent and will melt with some solvents like acetone (IPA is fine), but having some around for fine work like this is worth it. Thanks for sharing.
When heating it below soldering temp fixes it, it's almost certainly the internal bond wiring. I never really consider failures to be a total waste, as long as I learned something that will better help me to succeed in the future. Gaining knowledge is always a win in my book.
It's far to be easy and you're really on the right path. Clamping in a vice,(even from the very beginning when you remove old solder), clean PERFECTLY (of course, one hair and it's done), don't hesitate on the flux. You'll be successful with the new BGA!!!
The Texas Instruments emblem is a red outline of the State of Texas with the included lower case letters “t” (Thermal) and “i” (Ignorance), connected in one symbol by overlay. The red color of the icon symbolizes intentional overheating issues... Got an TX-NR808, approx 11 years old. When I first heard of these problems, I mounted a heatsink on the TI-chip, and it still works to this day, maybe because I always used it in stereomode (less internal heat). My TX-NR579 failed after approx. 4 years of ownership, and got the HDMI board replaced by a service-center in Germany under Onkyo's extended warranty. Issues like this is like a Damocles Sword - you never know when it fails.
Its like a dentist trying to save one of your molars. I've seen so many of these receivers that has a bad dsp. Yamaha's are also quite prone to have this issue.
I have a TX-NR708 model here in NZ. Mine failed after 2 years. The distributor of Onkyo said it was a stock fault and replaced the HDMI board FOC. The basic fault is they get overheated. A simple heatsink would probably be a good idea. The whole set gets very hot when driven in the 5.0 Dolby set up. Mine does have discreet transistors, not those integrated things! I have installed a fan into the lid. to run off a 12 volt supply I found. Some 7 years later it's still working fine.
If you can't hold your finger on a chip it's running over 60C and adding a heat sink is always a good idea for long life. I dislike fans in consumer electronics. That's just one more failure point in my opinion not to mention all the noise they make
@@TrevorsBench I agree with you 100% about electronics and heat. The fan I use is a low noise 24volt type running on just 12 volts, almost completely silent.
Some double-sided tape would hold that chip still for you, Trevor. This really was a valiant effort though, sorry it didn't work out. Thanks for sharing.
I have never done such repair. But what I see here is in my mind one step to far ? Isn't it enough to inject a lot of flux under the chip, and then once heat it, just as a first try ? I can understand that you need balling when the chip (and/or board) is new, but in this case all solder is already in its place, and the flux is then added to make the solder 'flow' as flux does; it distributes heat better and so lowers the melting point. Removing the chip does have one advantage, it shows if there is missing solder. Again, only comments from the side line.
I appreciate all comments. I basically did it because I wanted to try out re-balling a chip to see how difficult it was. I know I still have much to learn.
@@TrevorsBench Well, you showing it to us made me learn it, so that's a winner. I just don't know how others with more experience see this, and if I speak nonsense here.
Whoa! Trevor goes smd! Give into the dark side Luke! I’ve had two no-fix episodes with onkyo NRs. Funny how growing up, Onkyo was considered upper end. These units were garbage. Would love a TX mk II someday but pretty spendy on the used market.
I tried very hard to repair my TX-NR616 when the DSP went in it, when i failed it turned me away from onkyo for 2 years, might have to pick up one of these older receivers again and try to repair it with the knowledge i have now
What if it does go into protect? Mine clicks multiple times as i turn it on. I can only get music from zone 2..... not the other speaker ports. Please help.
Hello Mr. Trevor, I have the HT-R550 and its displays turns off after a few moments. I found out the Cirrus Logic cs42518-cqz 154854 gets hot and apparently has something to do with the display failure (it is an 8ch codec inteface): If I sprayed the IC with alcohol the propelent cools it down enough to make the display turns back on. It doesn't last long, the moment the IC gets hot the displays turns off. I'm not an electronic circuit repair man, nevertheless I have a capacitor tester (from my old man) and I'm thinking about desoldering the ones around the IC to check them. I'll thank you for any advice you may have for me. Rodrigo from MX.
If you have a digital multimeter, check the fuses for continuity. If they are fine, check the primary winding of the power transformer for resistance, it should not be open circuit. I don't know what model you're talking about but some models have a main relay on the primary, this may not be turning on. That may be a bigger problem in the standby circuits
@@TrevorsBench I'm sorry. Can't believe I didn't mention the model. It's an AVR 1710. They want $145 for a power supply board which is worth more than the entire receiver. Power tests good from power in fuse to the power jump wires to the main board. Not getting power through the 6 chip like fuses so a switch must not be sending power to the transformer.
There is a key combination to deactivate the HDMI board. Unfortunately, I can no longer remember it. You can then use the amplifier without the HDMI board with teh analogue inputs. Does anyone know this combination? You had to hold down one or two buttons and then switch on the amplifier.
If you ever remember the key combination, would you be so kind to share it here? Didn't know you could disable the HDMI ports board. In my case, just wanna use the analogue inputs. Best regards.
The extended heating of the chip during removal, cleaning and reflowing probably killed it for good if it wasn't dead already. Crappy design by Onkyo. I have two of these myself that I got for free cause they were dead. Fixed one by heating it, mostly from the bottom trough the PCB, and not so much trough the chip itself.
@@TrevorsBench could you let me know where did you find the chip? I am facing the same issue but I prefer to replace the ol one... I have heard the TI released an updated (redisigned) version but I have not find it till now in the global market!
I have worked on a three of these. Saved 1 by reheating the DSP. The other two didnt recover. You know the DSP works when the speaker array icon comes on the display. I enjoyed watching you reballing the chip.
Thanks Franz. Thought I'd try out a new camera angle, other than my fat hand in the way, I hope it was ok
This is obviously planned obsolescence. Screw the onkyo, pioneer and Denon. All of them are having same issue with the hdmi board.
Hi Trevor. My name is Neil. I'm in the UK. Congrats on a fantastic video. I have a 414 that had the same issue, it took 3 attempts to get it to work, on the 3rd attempt just using liquid flux and heat I had heat gun on max setting 450c directly over chip for 30 seconds, i was certain I had cooked it but its still working to this day... that was 3 years ago....looking forward to part 2. I'm not sure, though if these dsp chips have to be programmed to the unit. Thanks Trevor.
Hi Neil, Good job. I should have tried your method first.
I don't think they need programming but I will flash the firmware if I get it running
You are very brave for even trying to fix this unit. These were designed to fail. I watched Dave use a halogen bulb on that chip for 1/2 an hour to save the amp. Can you switch the input signal from digital to analog input? Some will not auto detect. If you repair it....add a heat sink and a computer fan to pull heat. I run one externally on my Yamaha RX-v1500. It runs very cool with the fan on its lowest setting. The fan has a variable control knob. Got it from memory express.
It's more of a learning experience for me incase I get more of these from clients. I can fix a small aluminum heatsink to the chip with thermal epoxy if I get this one fixed
If you set the unit to a strict bypass to analog, it will work, but it won't have any multichannel capabilities, or any tone control
BGA is a pain, sorry it didn't work out for you this time Trevor. Looking forward to the follow-up. Foam Q-tips save a lot of clean-up, they're not as absorbent and will melt with some solvents like acetone (IPA is fine), but having some around for fine work like this is worth it. Thanks for sharing.
I've got a mountain of the cheap cotton swabs and I'm trying to burn through them before I get the good stuff, lol
When heating it below soldering temp fixes it, it's almost certainly the internal bond wiring. I never really consider failures to be a total waste, as long as I learned something that will better help me to succeed in the future. Gaining knowledge is always a win in my book.
Was on the edge of my seat when you were trying to get those individual solder balls in location. I think I laughed out loud more than one time.
It's far to be easy and you're really on the right path. Clamping in a vice,(even from the very beginning when you remove old solder), clean PERFECTLY (of course, one hair and it's done), don't hesitate on the flux. You'll be successful with the new BGA!!!
The Texas Instruments emblem is a red outline of the State of Texas with the included lower case letters “t” (Thermal) and “i” (Ignorance), connected in one symbol by overlay. The red color of the icon symbolizes intentional overheating issues...
Got an TX-NR808, approx 11 years old. When I first heard of these problems, I mounted a heatsink on the TI-chip, and it still works to this day, maybe because I always used it in stereomode (less internal heat).
My TX-NR579 failed after approx. 4 years of ownership, and got the HDMI board replaced by a service-center in Germany under Onkyo's extended warranty.
Issues like this is like a Damocles Sword - you never know when it fails.
Its like a dentist trying to save one of your molars. I've seen so many of these receivers that has a bad dsp. Yamaha's are also quite prone to have this issue.
I have a TX-NR708 model here in NZ. Mine failed after 2 years. The distributor of Onkyo said it was a stock fault and replaced the HDMI board FOC. The basic fault is they get overheated. A simple heatsink would probably be a good idea. The whole set gets very hot when driven in the 5.0 Dolby set up. Mine does have discreet transistors, not those integrated things! I have installed a fan into the lid. to run off a 12 volt supply I found. Some 7 years later it's still working fine.
If you can't hold your finger on a chip it's running over 60C and adding a heat sink is always a good idea for long life. I dislike fans in consumer electronics. That's just one more failure point in my opinion not to mention all the noise they make
@@TrevorsBench I agree with you 100% about electronics and heat. The fan I use is a low noise 24volt type running on just 12 volts, almost completely silent.
I was hoping so badly you would win !
I don't give up that easy, a new chip was ordered
Great work anyway!
Some double-sided tape would hold that chip still for you, Trevor. This really was a valiant effort though, sorry it didn't work out. Thanks for sharing.
I have never done such repair. But what I see here is in my mind one step to far ? Isn't it enough to inject a lot of flux under the chip, and then once heat it, just as a first try ? I can understand that you need balling when the chip (and/or board) is new, but in this case all solder is already in its place, and the flux is then added to make the solder 'flow' as flux does; it distributes heat better and so lowers the melting point.
Removing the chip does have one advantage, it shows if there is missing solder.
Again, only comments from the side line.
I appreciate all comments. I basically did it because I wanted to try out re-balling a chip to see how difficult it was. I know I still have much to learn.
@@TrevorsBench Well, you showing it to us made me learn it, so that's a winner. I just don't know how others with more experience see this, and if I speak nonsense here.
Blue tack works well to hold down small chips and components.
Whoa! Trevor goes smd! Give into the dark side Luke! I’ve had two no-fix episodes with onkyo NRs. Funny how growing up, Onkyo was considered upper end. These units were garbage. Would love a TX mk II someday but pretty spendy on the used market.
I tried very hard to repair my TX-NR616 when the DSP went in it, when i failed it turned me away from onkyo for 2 years, might have to pick up one of these older receivers again and try to repair it with the knowledge i have now
Excelente
What if it does go into protect? Mine clicks multiple times as i turn it on. I can only get music from zone 2..... not the other speaker ports. Please help.
Need part 2 for this 😢😢😢
Hello Mr. Trevor,
I have the HT-R550 and its displays turns off after a few moments. I found out the Cirrus Logic cs42518-cqz 154854 gets hot and apparently has something to do with the display failure (it is an 8ch codec inteface):
If I sprayed the IC with alcohol the propelent cools it down enough to make the display turns back on. It doesn't last long, the moment the IC gets hot the displays turns off.
I'm not an electronic circuit repair man, nevertheless I have a capacitor tester (from my old man) and I'm thinking about desoldering the ones around the IC to check them.
I'll thank you for any advice you may have for me.
Rodrigo from MX.
Would sticking that little board down with blue tack help? Stop it from moving round.
I have relay clicking with 1 second delay, what could this be? Everything looks not burned on the hdmi board. Any recomendations?
Tell me if I’m wrong but am I wright that you should not touch chips with your fingers ?
I have a Harman Kardon with a bad power supply board. Primary side has power but no voltage on secondary side. A switch or maybe the mini fuses?
If you have a digital multimeter, check the fuses for continuity. If they are fine, check the primary winding of the power transformer for resistance, it should not be open circuit.
I don't know what model you're talking about but some models have a main relay on the primary, this may not be turning on. That may be a bigger problem in the standby circuits
@@TrevorsBench I'm sorry. Can't believe I didn't mention the model. It's an AVR 1710. They want $145 for a power supply board which is worth more than the entire receiver. Power tests good from power in fuse to the power jump wires to the main board. Not getting power through the 6 chip like fuses so a switch must not be sending power to the transformer.
Hi Trevor, please, where can you buy the templates and the balls 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏 thank you very much and good luck
don't you have a chip holder or even a metal clip to hold the chip?
No
There is a key combination to deactivate the HDMI board. Unfortunately, I can no longer remember it. You can then use the amplifier without the HDMI board with teh analogue inputs. Does anyone know this combination? You had to hold down one or two buttons and then switch on the amplifier.
If you ever remember the key combination, would you be so kind to share it here? Didn't know you could disable the HDMI ports board. In my case, just wanna use the analogue inputs. Best regards.
Press down BD/DVD +standby button together.
The extended heating of the chip during removal, cleaning and reflowing probably killed it for good if it wasn't dead already.
Crappy design by Onkyo. I have two of these myself that I got for free cause they were dead.
Fixed one by heating it, mostly from the bottom trough the PCB, and not so much trough the chip itself.
You're probably right, the chip was on it's way out. I thought I'd try the re-ball just in case it worked. A new chip is on order
I think Onkyo made a very dodgy receiver, the designers want a good slap with a wet fish lol.
u need to reset it after finishing all
Por favor que alguien me de la numero del circuito que la míaexploto uno le veo la numeración
Can you buy the chips?
Yes, but they are not cheap.
@@TrevorsBench could you let me know where did you find the chip?
I am facing the same issue but I prefer to replace the ol one... I have heard the TI released an updated (redisigned) version but I have not find it till now in the global market!
With all the heat applied to this chip, u can destroy this compound.
I HAVE AUDIO RECIEVER OUT PUT..HINDI NAG FUNCTION,,,PLS HELP ME TO REPAIR,,IM FROM CEBU
This work is too titus. You got to have passion's I think it's best to change the hole board, or just junk it.
I wish you were close to fix my 9nkyo no sound coming out