Inside Information - Native Dancer / Sagamore Farm
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- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024
- A look back, through the eyes of Alfred G. Vanderbilt, III, at the majesty and glory of the once great Sagamore Farm and the rise of the legendary Native Dancer. Also, how Sagamore Farm is now being restored to its glory by Kevin Plank, Founder and CEO of Under Armour
Native Dancer is long since gone but not forgotten, his Legacy will live on forever!! He left his mark on racing, he is my mare’s (Whoopsnotme) great great great grandfather. Glad to see the farm is making a comeback! Best wishes and luck in bring it back!!
@johnwalsh3215
From April 14 to August 22 he ran ten races and won all of them except the Derby. Can you imagine if he'd won that Derby? He'd be remembered right up there with MOW and Citation.
That film footage of Native Dancer is golden. It was a daughter of Native Dancer who produced the great Ruffian. I loved watching this and I enjoyed seeing the Preakness trophy sitting on the table there. That must be the trophy won by Native Dancer.
I have several horses who have Native Dancer on their pedigree's. And several years ago I was working on the east coast for a month and had planned to visit Sagamore Farms but it snowed that weekend. I never got another chance. But I have as my computer wallpaper a picture of a beautiful gray mare, Geisha, dam of Native Dancer.
Major kudos for the new owner of Sagamore! I was afraid somebody would come along w/ a thousand condos. So happy to know it will continue!
I have a 6 year old TB from the Native Dancer line who looks like his twin. Near Identical color, movement/grace, face and expression. I bought him raw and unbroken as a 3yearold from Czechoslovakian stunt riders with full papers and Jockey Club registration. Hope to train him for endurance.
He sired Dancer's Image who was DQ'd from winning the Derby because they found too high a level of bute in his system. He still had a Derby winner in Kauai King in 1966.
I remember seeing Mr. Vanderbilt in the paddock at Belmont. Also if I remember correctly his car had a front license plate that read Vanderbilt. He was a wonderful generous man to all backside employees. I was a one horse owner at the time. Enjoyed this tribute to ND and Mr. Vanderbilt by his son. Reading the book Native Dancer for the second time.
I worked for Hall of Fame Trainer, Henry S. Clark, at Sagamore Farm in about 1984 to 1985 or '86. I started as a Hotwalker and became a groom. He called the fillies "Sookie". We each had 3 horses to care for. My favorite horse was "Boza". I remember going to Pimlico with "Firewalker" as his Hotwalker. The groom got too drunk to ready him for the race so I took over with the assistant trainer Bob Westfalt and he won that day. I got my picture taken in the winner's circle.
Great story, and a great memory for you! Thanks for telling it!
Thank you, how delightful to listen to this young man talk about his family, his father's farm and the new owner restoring Sagamore Farm. Thank you....
I have never bred horses - that was both of my Grandfathers' avocations. I do breed dogs on a very limited basis - Chesapeake Bay Retrievers. I started by studying line breeding. I created the all-time winning Canadian bred bitch here in Canada and she held her own in the US. Her pedigree combines Best in Show with Field Trial Champions. I never left that heritage behind. That is what Sagamore is. It is a heritage of some of the best in thoroughbred racing. It is wonderful to see that it is being restored.
Native Dancer was a prolific sire. However, in the modern era, the big contributor to the gene pool was a Canadian bred stallion that could have been purchased at the yearling sale for a modest amount of money - Northern Dancer, He was a small horse with the will to win. That is the mark of a thoroughbred - don't pass me. I am going to look at his pedigree to see if Native Dancer is in there.
Native Dancer is Northern Dancer's broodmare sire and also the sire of Mr. Prospector's sire. Mr. P. is another very prolific sire.
@@vernonfrance2974 Also the sire of ATAN, who sired SHARPEN UP.
Another prominent sire line, (although nowhere near to Northern Dancer or Mr Prospector in influence).
Native Dancer, 22-21-1-0, only loss was a nose in the 1953 Kentucky Derby. Went on to win the Preakness, Belmont, Travers, Wood Memorial and many other big Grade 1 wins. And he is absolutely the most influential race horse ever as far as breeding goes. No horse has turned out more winners. A great many stakes winner's to date have Native Dancer somewhere back in their bloodlines. He's, without a doubt, one of the top 5 thoroughbred's in racing history. imo.
I agree. Through his grandsons Mr. Prospector and Northern Dancer he has a prominent place in many, many pedigrees. Although not a direct descendant of Man O' War, both horses have Hastings and his son Fair Play in their ancestry. "All offspring of Hastings inherited his savage temperament in some degree, even his great-grandson Hard Tack was uncontrollable on the track." Hard Tack was Seabiscuit's sire but neither Seabiscuit nor Native Dancer had 'savage temperaments.'
a trick: you can watch series at flixzone. Me and my gf have been using them for watching a lot of movies lately.
@Tanner Colson Yup, been watching on Flixzone} for months myself :D
@@vernonfrance2974 Good points, but let's not overlook Raise A Native. After all he is Mr. P's daddy! Nothern Dancer is ND's maternal grandson as well.🙂🙂
@@6699230 Good points!
I'll make sure to buy Under Armour even more!
@GBeret83 I was privileged to watch Native Dancer mated to some Broodmare. What a production. The "teaser" first ascertained that the Broodmare was ready and then dragged away unfulfilled (the Teaser was very unhappy with that). Then Native Dancer was led down to the Breeding Barn. Native Dancer was huge (big) in every conceivable sense of the word. I wish I had the foresight to write down the Broodmare's name so I can see what came out of the 1964 or 1965 mating.
@GBeret83 I was priveledged to watch Native Dancer mated to some Broodmare. What a production. The "teaser" first ascertained that the Broodmare was ready and then dragged away unfulfilled (the Teaser was very unhappy with that). Then Native Dancer was led down to the Breeding Barn. Native Dancer was huge (big) in every conceivable sense of the word. I wish I had the foresight to write down the Broodmare's name so I can see what came out of the 1964 or 1965 mating.
What guy would be happy about being cheated on?🙃🙃
I have native dancers grandson!!! and i miss native dancer so very much
Mackenzie Lewis Dancers Image!
The Native Dancer line "may" have more injuries than any other (have you researched this-do you have statistics to back your statement?) but if so it is likely only because his line represents at least 75% of ALL horses racing today. Therefore more injuries would stand to reason. He himself was NOT unsound if you read the history about him. There are also plenty of very durable descendants therefore it seems that statement is pure heresay...! He was a GREAT champion!
E P Taylor (Northern Dancer) was quoted as saying the weakness traced to Phalaris's predominance in breeding lineage.🤔
@@6699230 I know who Mr. Taylor is.... Breeder of Northern Dancer, owner of Windfield farms. At least he wasn't blaming Native Dancer, but even in Mr Taylor's day Phalaris was 4 generations back through his sire Nearctic in Northern Dancer's pedigree. I would find it hard to believe that that line was unsound either, being that Nearco was a grandson of Phalaris and was bred by Federico Tesio who was pretty much a master of bloodlines and breeding. There are 62 relatives in a five generation pedigree so I think it's a little bit difficult to attribute a current horse's racing problems to any one of those individuals.... But I guess it sounds good when people want to place blame somewhere...?
You make some good points
What a horse he was! Glad to see this farm is being restored to its former glory, would have been a waste to have seen it rot away or have crap developed on it.
@mpeindms, Rarely do you ever see a horse that's as equally effective in the breeding shed as he was on the racetrack, or vice-versa. Native Dancer was one of those rare specimens. Had he not been knocked around by Dark Star in the 53' Kentucky Derby. I'm convinced he would've been retired unbeaten. And what he went on to accomplish in the breeding shed speaks for itself.
Legend lives forever 🙌 👏 ❤️ ♥️
He moved so gracefully--even when he walked.
My favorite horse, and personal choice as the greatest.
I have checked and Native Dancer was the sire of Northern Dancer's dame. However, over 90% of Northern Dancer's pedigree is English and European breeding.
Mr.Vanderbilt was the NICEST MAN I EVER MET IN THE HORSE BUSINESS!!!
I had the honor of breaking babies on Sagamore Farm..so beautiful.The day Vanderbilt came to watch the horses I was in every set.
The founder of Under Armour, Kevin Plank, now owns Sagamore Farm and is restoring it. One of his horses won a Breeder's Cup race. Glad the old farm is being restored to it's former glory.
This is awesome!
i have his great grand daughter! =)
MINE TOO!(:
hes my horses "grandfather"
his registerd name is "Red Hot Tiger"!
I've read that 75% of all Thoroughbreds have Native Dancer in their bloodline.
Probably, he had very good bloodlines and very sought after!!! My mare is a descendent, Whoopsnotme
Native Dancer is in the bloodlines of a lot of great horses that went down. Ruffian, who was grand-daughter of Native Dancer broke down and recently I found that Eight Bells lineage show that she has Native Dancer blood on both sides of her family tree.
Two out of thousands is not "a lot." Eight Bells ran second to Big Brown in the Kentucky Derby before taking a misstep. Nothing indicates the race itself caused her breakdown as she was pulling up when it happened.
Ruffian was in a match race against Foolish Pleasure, the Kentucky Derby winner that year and her breakdown may have come from trying to rush her to the lead which is considered the way to win match races.
It is almost impossible to find a horse that doesn't have Northern Dancer in the pedigree nowadays, so it follws that NATIVE DANCER will be there tok.
Same for Mr Prospector and SHARPEN UP.
@techblitz1 --- Native Dancer wasactually sired by Polynesian out of Geisha (hence, his name - a name that was originated at a Bennett Cerf party). I am not at all sure that Phalaris was a sire of either Polynesian OR Geisha. My source was the Trainer of Native Dancer AT Sagamore Farms. I don't remember his name exactly but I think the Trainer's name was Winfield or something like Winfield. Northern Dancer came along later in the Native Dancer stud line.
Native Dancer was the sire of Natalma, Northern Dancer's dam. He looked much more like his sire, Nearctic than he did Native Dancer.
@@vernonfrance2974 I read somewhere that Nijinsky looked more like his mother than Northern Dancer. Apparently, Nijinsky was bigger than his dad.🙂
@@6699230Northern Dancer sired many great stallions: Included are Sadler's Wells, Lyphard, Nureyev, The Minstrel, Vice Regent, Northern Taste, Storm Bird, and Danzig and they sired many more. Sadler's Wells is the sire of Galileo for example.
Nice
I was thinking Native Dancer was a Canadian horse. Was he sold to Mr Vanderbilt ?
Good News for once!
I Learned how to Ride breaking Babies. What a Beautiful Experience. I rode for 15yrs. AND WON 1001
Wish I could speak with you ❤
Secretariat lost five times and people think he was "God." Native Dancer lost once - because of being impeded, and he is virtually forgotten. Native Dancer also raced at four, Secretariat did not and never carried a 130+ pound impost.
Secretariat lost twice as a Two Year Old. In his first race, Quebec slammed him coming out the gate. The race was only five furlongs but he would have won at a longer distance. Strangely, both his jockey, Ron Turcotte, and his trainer, Lucien Laurin, were from Quebec.
He was DQ'ed for bumping Stop the Music which he had finished two lengths ahead of and in his next race beat him by eight lengths. He lost as a Three Year Old to his stablemate Angle Light in the Wood Memoria. It was learned that he a bad abscess and could not grab the bit. He then won all of the Triple Crown races in record times despite breaking last in both the Kentucky Derby and the Preakness. No horse since has run as fast in any of those three races. He then lost twice to older horses named Onion and Prove Out. The Triple Crown is a tough series of races yet he was kept in training without a let up. He later defeated Onion in the Marlboro Cup but never raced Prove Out again. He set world records in the Belmont and the Marlboro Cup and won his last two races against the best grass (turf) horses in North America despite never having raced on the turf before.
As a Four Year Old, he would probably have been even better.
There's an old saying that timing is everything. Native Dancer deserves accolades for only losing once, but his competition was mediocre. Actually was all out to edge Jamie K in the Preakness and Belmont, a horse who only won five races out of 50-something total. What if he had been foaled the same year as Swaps/Nashua? Would he have lost just once? Maybe, but I doubt it. The earlier reply here covers most of what I would say. Secretariat also ran sick in the Wood and Whitney, the latter race with Turcotte begging Laurin not run him as he knew something was wrong with the horse.
Mr plank is out of racing now
He ran in first .
His get ran in first.
His grand babies ran in first.
What is no to to like?
The reason the babies break is because they are babies.
like she is the only one!