I like this trope because the characters are so interesting and entertaining, but it’s disturbing and horrifying when people idolize them and want to become like them. It’s similar to how real life serial killers have fans and inspire others to become serial killers, like how Ted Bundy has so many admirers and even married one.
I think it's okay to like them because of their personality. I just don't like when people just makes excuse for them doing bad things just because they like them. You can like someone but still understand why they have to be punished.
These characters are too far up their own asses and walk around with a god complex, they treat others as if they are a subcategory that is beneath them so I really enjoy it when they get knocked down a peg. I think society is giving them a little too much admiration and attention that which they feel utterly entitled to like the narcissists that they are. They mistake kindness for weakness, empathy is something society absolutely needs in order to be successful. How are humans supposed to advance forward if we are detached and have this all-for-one attitude? I don’t think they should be shunned from society or shamed, my sister is actually acquainted with a sociopath who she no longer wants any contact with, but that doesn’t stop her from randomly asking my sister if she can come over whenever she wants to regardless of my sister’s feelings. To anyone who idolizes them, just know that these people will walk all over you with no regret if you don’t draw the line, have some self respect because they clearly don’t have any for you.
is sad but some people tend to be sheep, and they have the need to look up to someone or something they feel is greater than them; criminals, politicians, religion. Or even fans that become too obsessed. These people tend to invest their whole identity towards those these idols, causing them to lose their own identity or self respect.
That’s what I wonder about fans of these characters. There cool to watch but their pretentiousness gets on my nerves sometimes. Also I’ve been around and lived with people like them and their is not a badass thing about them. I also think that looks is another reason why they have huge followings. If they were less attractive or cool looking, fat, or had a really weird voice, they wouldn’t have a huge following.
@@kpopfan246 Oh my god yes! Their pretentiousness grates on my nerves! They already think they are hot shit that are soul sucking assholes, they don’t require your fawning, which they will by the way exploit you with. My older brother is a narcissist and I in no way envy him, it must be lonely to have a “me against the world” mindset and always wanting more and more and never really recuperating and being too blind to see it and constantly having to uphold the false self.
Having a sociopathic father, I've long been fascinated by people's love of, and even sexualization of, sociopaths in media. They're always portrayed as intelligent, when that's definitely not a rule with them, as sexy, as super charming and suave, when sometimes they're all rage. The thing that bothers me most about how they're portrayed is the sympathy shown for the ones who are that way because of abuse. Abuse is a cause, not a justification. Sure, my father was abused and that's how he became what he is. But he in turn abused me and I am capable of empathy and kindness. I chose to fight against that hate and anger I was exposed to.
This is extremely true,they are great actors and manipulators but they can also be stupid and not cunning.Just because they were abused doesn’t mean they should be empathized with other wise every abused person would be a sociopath.
@@suryarichman Exactly, most abused people come out the other side damaged, but empathetic and compassionate. We have to start identifying it as a cause, not an excuse. There are so many shows that will show an awful childhood as a character's background, then basically say it was inevitable that they would turn out evil. That's a really damaging idea.
My favourite part of this trope is that the "loveable sociopath" almost never meets the diagnostic criteria for antisocial personality disorder. This trope is purely fiction
The only thing I don't like about this trope is how glamorized it is by Hollywood, like if they didn't cast charming and attractive people to portray this mental disorder I don't think people would be as fascinated with it or would idolize these people so much.
Sociopaths are generally charming though. Having an actor who is physically attractive makes their charm easier to portray on screen. Audiences can more easily understand why people fall for them in the films
I think that’s the point tho? That we as society let them slide by being immoral even tho we wouldn’t let someone less attractive do the same. Think about the guy who got famous bc his mugshot was attractive. There’s also studies showing how we judge the same crimes harsher for uglier people.
@@izzywoods794 while that’s true it doesn’t have much weight in my opinion when Hollywood usually wants to make everyone beautiful and have a personality that’s airbrushed lol
Maybe in regards to cinema. I've read plenty of stories with characters who are horrible excuses for human beings, and the entertainment comes from the warped way they view the world, or by them trying to act normal and failing horribly. That and there's a bit of catharsis in reading about someone acting on the various thoughts and impulses we regularly burr on regular basis. Because lets face it, we would all like to speak our minds and damn the consequences, punch that asshole boss in the face, and take whatever we want, we would ruin all the relationships we need to function, probably suffer legal ramifications, and most likely feel like shit as soon as our temper cooled. In that regard there's a small amount of living those impulses vicariously through such fictional characters.
Unfortunately that's the way its always been in this world. Beauty gets you places. I saw an interesting video that that talked about the same issue going on in the music industry. The video showed countless examples of super attractive male and female singers and as a contrast they showed one middle aged singer that showed up on Britain's Got Talent if I'm right and proceeded to shock millions with her beutiful voice. At first glance this woman didn't look all that much. Admittedly she looked unattractive and in the video clip of her on the show you could just tell the judges were judging her before she even sang.
As an actual, diagnosed sociopath, this is an interesting video. Your film points are spot on but the psychology is all wrong. Don't feel bad though, no one ever gets it right. The "rules" are there as not so much of a disguise but a formula to solve a problem. It must be solved to protect oneself from others. The call and response of superficial conversations, the cold math of what you can do vs what you must do. It's not to gain power or hurt people, it's to survive a world you simply don't understand because if anyone ever knew who you really were they'd hate and fear you. Which would be fine but then you'd be alone with only yourself. In a void, you have no meaning. The rules are there to give yourself meaning and a thing (society) to compare yourself to so that you know you exist. Otherwise you're just another number in the equation. Everyone wants to matter and have meaning, even if your meaning is different.
No, rules are there to prohibit you from doing what you were born to do. If you truly were truly a sosiopath, unless the rules were in your favor you would be against them.
This is quite similar, though not identical, to how I and many others like me navigate through the world when we’re forced to mask our autism. It’s stressful, anxiety and depression-inducing, frustrating and then for some of us, a means to an end and so fuck everyone else.
I have to disagree with the fact that in real life these types of sociopaths would have us running. People who are sociopaths and their ability to be likable and blend in is actually one of the things that I believe Hollywood does right with this particular mental health diagnosis because it is true about sociopaths in real life. I interviewed several sociopaths in my military training and without knowing that's what they were, I'd have never guessed it. It's our hubris in thinking we'd be able to tell if we are being manipulated. It societies predisposition to value confidence and showmanship that makes us think that we'd be able to spot them. After all, there is a reason why a lot of people in positions of power fit the bill for sociopathy, and some of them being in positions we the people put them in willingly.
I knew a sociopath in real life and while she blended in at first, people came around to her true nature after a month or so and started collectively disliking her. Maybe she was just a sociopath wannabe?
@@hollywoodshopaholic No, that’s usually how it goes when someone is putting up a front. No matter how good of an actor they are, you start to get hints of their true nature when you’re around them longer. That’s why I hate 1st impressions, people are only going to show you what they want you to see.
I couldn’t watch “YOU.” I was married to someone like joe, I thank God I made it out alive with my infant daughter. Coparenting is literally hell with this person.
@Akshay 786 the likelihood of her marrying him as he is now, is low. Sociopaths know how to get what they want, and it can be years before they basically have you on a leash and can show their true, narcissistic, sociopathic selves. That is when they become a monster that is incredibly hard to get away from.
So was I. 4 years too long. I had an infant daughter too. Got out right before her 3rd birthday. It is not cute, even if they were a fraction of what joe (from you) was. I hope you’re ok. You’re never alone. I hope you don’t have to deal with him still and if I do I hope it’s smooth
Depends. Women tend to glorify male sociopaths more then men do. Men don't usually glorify female sociopaths. Alot of women are attracted to those type of men.
@Millie I stand by what ive said. Go look up hannibal videos or david from fear videos and youll find its mostly women gushing over that. Hell, even real life serial killers. The commenter said "good ol sexism" and yet , a noticable percentage of women are perpetuating it. Dont even get me started on the music videos they create too. Men do glamorize them too(youll find that in the case of some "hot" psycho women) but women typically do it to a larger degree. This isnt a sexism thing. Also, another factor is there arent many female sociopaths or psychopaths in film. The number for males far exceed the female ones and this can apply to real life too(AntiSocialPersonalityDisorder is more common in males than females, so it would make sense to have a male sociopath or psychopath in film most of the time).Amy from gone girl is probably the most used example for the female type and people still praise her for her beauty/ coldness. My comment wasnt to the OP , it was to marie bourgot.
@@bloodieddeadman6.1.65 i would also say the female variants are more unpleasant, or better said the method to their madness is, they just come off as turning the bitchy scale up to 11
I see people who say “you can like a villain/antagonistic character but don’t excuse their actions” but it’s not like they’re a real idol/celebrity. When people like bad characters it’s because they’re well written. They’re good at being bad and that’s what makes them interesting.
If people say that, it's because some of these fans go way further than just appreciating a well written character. Some actually end up idiolising/romanticing/eroticising/glamoring these type of personality in real life that cause a lot of misconceptions/ignorance that end up causing a lot of suffering.
If you find yourself liking, empathising with and even rooting for a sociopath, then at least you know that the actors and writers have done their jobs well! 👏🏾😉
It’s weird because I can admit that there are a lot of great shows with great actors focused on likable sociopaths, but it’s hard for me to get invested in them because the characters are so morally reprehensible. I still need to finish Breaking Bad and Mad Men to this day.
@@tariqthomas9090 If you didn't finish breaking bad because of Walter White, then you are missing out. I actually started to hate his egotistical, borderline narcissistic ass. Although Jesse broke bad too, he at least showed signs of regret, trauma, and emotion to everything that went wrong. Walter became power hungry and didn't even care who got in his way any more. He just annihilated them. I won't give away spoilers though.
The trope is largely a misnomer based on the literal definition of sociopath (although it is not a real psychological diagnosis so the term is already loose anyway). Being an asshole doesn’t make you a sociopath. Being antisocial doesn’t make you a sociopath. Even being a murderer doesn’t make you a sociopath. It’s a lot more complex than just a negative trait or two. Or even a trait that just isn’t neurotypical (ie. not understanding social cues, not able to process the emotions of others, etc.) If we go by what movies tend to define a sociopath as, basically every villain is a sociopath. I think that’s largely the issue. Hollywood just has to stop calling every villainous character a sociopath or going out of their way to code them as such. Not only is it uninspired it’s just incorrect.
Azula from Avatar is also an excellent example of the female sociopath. So much so a lot of people got very angry when she never got a planned redemption arc.
I'm surprised to see Sherlock in a video about sociopaths. He may call himself one, but his actual behaviour is far more in line with being on the Autistic Spectrum, being extremely intelligent, and simply not caring much what others think. For reference, I'm on the spectrum myself, and I work in the mental health field, often with patients who are also on the spectrum. A lot of us don't express, or recognise emotions as easily as most people, no matter what we're actually feeling. We have deep empathy, but we're often pragmatic about it - we want to fix a situation first if we can, and then we'll melt down later. We tend to be obsessive, and highly observant, with encyclopedic memories involving our particular areas of interest. After she binge watched the series, my own mum nicknamed me "Sherlock". (I immediately nicknamed her "Watson". ;D ) Nope, I think Sherlock as a sociopath is a miss.
@@alexrose20 Every time he said that in the series, I'd call him out on it because talking to the screen is fun - "Liar! You're high functioning, high intelligence Autistic, and we all know it!"
On the animated side Light Yagami is another sociopath you almost want to route for because his thinking process is at once so impressive and so terrifyingly apathetic.
I agree with you about his high intellect. He was so good at fooling everyone even L caught on to his act. But I'm glad Light got the ending he deserved lol. Death Note is a classic!
@@camariehowell8240 I don't think L caught on to his act, there's a scene when they both talk under the rain and L asks him (japanese) "have you ever, since you were born told the truth?" Light is shook because he realizes L has always known what he is. He just couldn't prove it. Light was an amazing character who at one point had the world in his hands and no one around him suspected anything but L could see trhough its act and that ultimately made Near caught him.
didn't he only start killing innocent people when L sent agents, innocent people after him? its funny, self righteous people's talking point is 'its wrong to kill anyone,' while not giving a helpful alternative. they will say that during the day but will use lethal force if it's their house being broken into at night, at that moment, the filth won't be so precious to protect and save anymore. the people protecting the violent criminals are terrifyingly apathetic.
Sherlock (in BBC) is not an actually a sociopath. He just sais that he is, to avoid getting hurt. He quickly gets attached to John, calls him his friend in already the second episode (just to get hurt and rejected). He truly loves Mrs Hudson, literally jumps off a rooftop for John, tried his best not to hurt Molly's feeligs when he understands that she is in love with him... In the end of the show, he even get some resemblance of a family ...
@@paperfox8794 i think when he feels, he feels very greatly, better not to open a can of worms. And in the same episode, the blind banker, when he listened to Soo Lin Yao's story, we can see tears on his eyes
Sociopaths arent incapable of love it's just self motivated. It might be because the object of their affection offers stimulation whereas most people are boring or how they reflect their image back st them. It just doesnt translate into a desire to not hurt that person and can switch off if they put a foot wrong.
@@telamere2043 I totally agree, in the case of real sociopaths, like Hannibal Lector or J.D. But the whole point of my comment was that Sherlock isn’t one, and they shouldn’t have included him in the video. He just puts on a cheap facade (that most ppl in his life can see through) to avoid getting hurt.
@Nino Sokrivo uhhh the irony is that Hannibal is a cannibal who cooks people like a Michelin star chef, and then a Gordon Ramsey ad plays afterwards. It’s not really irony either, just a funny coincidence.
While I do like a lot of these characters, it's important to recognize that these portrayals can damage people’s perception of real-life people with ASPD. Society chooses only to support mental illnesses that they deem ‘okay,’ such as depression and anxiety. I have seen many people online saying things like people with ASPD should be put down and demonizing people who have it. It is important to recognize that ASPD is a spectrum and that a large majority of people with this disorder are in fact capable of being decent people and deserve our respect. I also need to mention that you shouldn’t have put Sherlock in there. Sherlock is autistic coded and many people mistake the way he acts as sociopathy.
Definitely. There’s enough romanticization of people with ASPD as it is in media but then people hate in real people with it. Same would go with many mental illnesses, which is so terrible and wrong.
I feel like most of the cluster b personality disorders get shit on, tbh. People often see or hear about a stereotypical version of the disorders and don't realize that there's a spectrum and that not all people with the disorder are the same
Fr one of my friends is a sociopath and he basically just thinks about the consequences of what he does, i.e he's nice to people so they do things for him
I remember rooting for amy dune whilst being endlessly terrified of her. The "cool girl" monologue opened my eyes to things I never imagined to be patriarchal but her blunt decisiveness and will to ruin her husband's life gives me chills
Joe doesn't see himself as a villian (which most don't) and has managed to convince the audience that he isn't one either, that's great writing and acting
@@m1k4t0r15 It can be differcult to do and just make them one dimentional and remind us that they're evil. The best played and written character's can be brutal but because they don't see their wrong, neither do we. The audience fall for their charm and manipulation, so it seems realistic that other characters would too.
Joe is such a perfect example of the mental gymnastics a lot of people are willing to do in order to satisfy the basic need to see ourselves as good people inspite of everything. The fact that some people in the audience believe it is more a sign of them needing to examine their own beliefs and histories. Joe is not a good guy, and he doesnt hide it, he merely tries to explain it all away.
@@m1k4t0r15 There actually is such a thing as evil by definition, “profoundly immoral or malevolent”. Murder of innocents (ie. people that have not committed violence against another person) would be considered immoral, (morality: ”concerned with principles of right or wrong”) by North American standards, which is the society in which the series was created/based. Although I agree that the concept of evil/good and morality are a bit more complex from a philosophical lens, that isn’t the point the other commenters seem to be addressing.
@@trinaq What seals it for me is that she can be really childish and immature which is something you never see from psychopathic killers in movies/tv. It gives her another dimension that is very human.
@@mikester4896 yeah that’s why I think that she’s more of a sociopath more than she is a psychopath. Because she’s able to form these relationships and actually care for some people around her or even hate (eve, konstantin, her mother). Normally psychopaths don’t forge those connections nor do they feel almost any emotions.
This trope exists because in writing you have to make your characters multi-dimensional. If 'bad guys' were only bad, it would be boring, so you have to make each character more interesting, with more substance. It's mostly fictional.
As a newspaper editor, I (unfortunately) routinely edit court copy, sometimes about murders and killers. I’ve never once seen a ‘charming, handsome/pretty killer’ in my years, to date - they’re invariably scruffy, ugly, wired-looking people who I wouldn’t want to leave a goldfish with, let alone field any surprise that they’re responsible for someone’s death, whether deliberately or unintentionally. Attractive killers are *rare* in the real world. Ultimately, someone is dead, which is of more concern than their killer’s mere looks...
@@vercoda9997 The Boston Marathon Bomber who lived was so good looking he ended up on Rolling Stone (thankfully they received tons of backlash), Jodi Arias, Casey Anthony, the guy sho shot up hiscollege because girls wouldn't have sex with him
he had no fire. he was completely flat. when i buy a movie or tv series i keep it, watch it and look upon it happily forever. i actually threw the dvds in the garbage and i NEVER do that. for how hot he was he was boring and cold. the only time he had fire was when he was with abigail. the only time he had a personality, something he genuinely seemed to like to interact with. then he killed her.
I really don't like the way our society romanticizes sociopaths. I feel so much empathy for people who suffer at the hands of sociopaths. I feel like their narratives deserve more recognition. Why are we constantly encouraged to root for the abuser?? We need more nuance, seeing more sides of what it feels like to be loved by/love a sociopath.
Quoting someone else from the comments: "I see people who say “you can like a villain/antagonistic character but don’t excuse their actions” but it’s not like they’re a real idol/celebrity. When people like bad characters it’s because they’re well written. They’re good at being bad and that’s what makes them interesting." -Camren Creationz
You sound like you want less nuance, not more. You only want your experience to be represented and not those of the entire disorder you reductively brand as all "abusers." I love and am loved by a psychopath and quite frankly it's wonderful. Do you think that experience deserves representation or only yours?
Honestly, this is my least favorite trope because I don’t like that hyper intelligence, genius, and introversion is so often associated with a lack of empathy and evil or even just grumpy jerkiness in media. I want more soft-hearted savants like Newt from Fantastic Beasts. Many of the smartest people I know are also very kind. People forget that Albert Einstein was an activist and cared a lot about humanity. Empathy is considered a sign of high intelligence, especially in animals like elephants.
As someone on the autism spectrum who struggles with social intelligence and empathy, I like these representations because they show that there is a place for people like me in a society that usually demonized and ostracizes us.
That is very true, another example are snakes, they're viewed as unintelligent is because they're unable to comprehend the basic concept of love simply because they lack the part of the brain that allows us to feel love. And idk why people wants to have snakes as pets, like why would you give your love to something that can't feel love and only see you as food?
Please do a video about Mabel Pines, and why she is so loved and also how you could say she was the turning point for young female characters in animation. By being hyper hyper-feminine and interested in traditionally girly things (like glitter; boy bands; crafts and sewing/knitting), but she is also the comedic character on the show which has been very rare for female characters, as usually the comedic character is a male. Also she is very chaotic, which has been rare for girly characters in animation, comparing Mabel Pines to Isabella from Phineas and Ferb or Dot from The Animaniacs.
Yes, please! 😍 I adore how Mabel serves as the comic relief character, which is typically used for a male character, and how she's a brave, lovable character who happens to be Girly, and wears her heart on her sleeve! ♥️
Isabella actually becomes more chaotic and dangerous as the series goes on and it’s hilarious. In the new movie she actually THREATENS Doofensmirtz for bickering with her.
@@BioshadowXI'm,sorry to sound like someone living under a rock her but, what controversy? Asking because I don't understand how on earth there'd be controversy behind such a wholesome character.
Rick actually makes me feel better about my own mortality. His constant reminder that nothing and no one matters is comforting to an overthinker. I can do what I want, I can take that risk or not, and I'm biologically engineered to feel the way I do about topics like love, empathy, death, and fear. His rare displays of care for his family (for me anyway) despite the fact that nothing matters epitomize being human.
To clarify, I don't idolize Rick. I watch Rick and Morty when I'm stressed beyond 'taking a long walk to clear my head' because it's funny and whether I make the right decision or not in this moment, the outcome itself, in the scheme, doesn't matter.
“In the real world, most sociopaths would make us run for our lives.” Except when they’re writing our paychecks, like in the case of Mark Zuckerberg or Jeff Bezos. I’ve heard that sociopaths end up in one of two places, jail or the top of the corporate ladder, a climb made easier because they don’t feel remorse over stepping on others at work.
Psychopaths are overrepresented in corporate hierarchy, but not as much as people think. Studies that I have found that actually assessed high-level executives and CEOs have come up with 4-11% of them are Psychopaths. Granted that is higher than general population which is roughly 1%. But it is much lower than the prison population which is 15-25% of prison inmates.
You don't know what sociopathy is if you don't consider steve jobs or travis kalanick as sociopath. Zuckerberg is just socially awkward and bezos is not a psychopath /sociopath.
@@libertatemadvocatus1797 because only INTELLIGENT sociopaths would be in a position like that. its hilarious how much people underestimate the difficulty of being successful at anything. you need to work for at least in my opinion, 7 hours day. good luck working 7 hours a day when your brain cant analyze complex information. the dumb sociopaths end in prison, the smart AND hard working sociopaths distract themselves with money so they dont have to kill people.
Holmes and House are both based on the Sherlock Holmes stories and I don't read his character in the original stories as unfeeling or detached. He was downright sentimental, in many cases, and wasn't particularly "curmudgeonly" (bit stubborn, but also mostly nice to people???) The modern obsession with making him some BRAIN ROBOT WHO CARES NOT FOR YOUR FEELINGS is honestly exhausting and says more about the adaptors than the character as written.
I saw an article that Sherlock (at least the bbc one) might have schizoid personality disorder, which explains a lot of his behaviours, as well as the fact that he does have a lot of emotion and they're strong ones at that - but he lacks the ability to outwardly express them in socially acceptable ways. Read more on that, you may be surprised.
Actually, the "Sherlock is a unfeeling" isn't a new take in the slightest. G.K Chesterton created his own sleuth in 1910 to develop a character who was the opposite to Holmes's deduction. Father Brown was written to utilise observations of human characteristics (early Criminal Psychology). Tons of writers have questioned if the forensic science in Holmes and to a certain extent House play too rigidly to fulfilling the audience's desire to play sleuth and play along that they stop being real characters in the process. I'd disagree with House. He is white coat syndrome become manifest. Holmes less easy to tell. Conan Doyle may never have intended this depth of connection to Holmes in the first place. None of his story is told from his perspective so we'll never know. He is empathetic to the plight of his clients, shown multiple times in the stories but genuinely is more interested in what the story beholds like the reader. He's a cipher.
@@Firegen1 Agatha Christie's detectives were all deliberate Anti-Holmes types too, from the beginning of her career in the 1920's. My own read on Sherlock Holmes (if I must diagnose him), particularly on any modern versions of the character, is that he's on the Autistic Spectrum, with the same extremely high intelligence he's always been given. I work in mental health, have worked often with patients on the spectrum, and I'm on the spectrum as well. I know a lot of neurodivergent people socially. Quite a number of us have decided that the version of the character on "Sherlock" is absolutely Autistic, and uses his lack of understanding and caring for social norms as both a weapon and a shield against the world. It makes so much sense!
Funny how so many people in the comments happen to have a degree in Psychology and are capable of diagnosing people in their lives as sociopaths and psychopaths. There might be abusive, selfish, narcissistic and horrible people in your lives, which is actually quite common, but straight up diagnosing them with any such extreme pathology is incorrect. But that doesn't take away the abuse you may or may not have suffered at the hands of the people in your lives - it makes sense that you would want to put the people who hurt you in extreme ways into such a category to validate your feelings, but ultimately it's incorrect.
I could not agree more ! Teachers said to me it was the " psycology student syndrom" where at one point everyone seems to have personality disorders. Where actual humans are imperfect by nature and we all have some traits. The point it becomes a disorder needs an actual diagnostic. But people interested in psycology loves to label , and put people in boxes wayyy to fast. And even inside a label, there is so much variability that the boxes are never really here. These are spectrum.
Ppl r too quick to call anyone whos abusive a narcissist/sociopath and it does so much harm to the ppl with that disorder who r already seen as monsters, i just wanna vibe man
It's nice for people to objectify the abuser because acknowledging the human aspect of it would require people to understand that you were just an easy target for someone to vent their destructive insecurities against you. It's not easy to accept you were objectified as a target, so we objectify them in response.
@@flowerdaisystar9593 Concerning yeah, Joe kinda fucked with my morals because I liked him a lot in season 1 but at least I hope people are just aware this isn’t attractive irl
You've got to admit that Penn Badgley plays Joe so perfectly, and with such charm, that it's easy to forget that he's the villain, and that we're not supposed to be rooting for him. Even PENN feels as though the fans romanticise Joe's actions too much. ☠️
I think this happens because of priming. Culturally people have been primed to sympathize and even romanticize characters like them through other films that show his behavior as romantic. There is very little difference between his behavior and say another character like Edward Cullen (twilight). We have been told already by romantic movies and books that a traumatic past is excuse for toxic behavior, if you’re handsome stalking is okay, and emotionally manipulating someone is an acceptable way to show you care. So by the time we get to a show like You, these behaviors are not startling nor glaring wrong. They look a lot like a romance movie.
It seems to me that this trope is so popular because it seems so freeing. Everyone, even the nicest people, sometimes have dark thoughts, and fictional sociopaths are making them come true. Like when someone you have to deal with seems incredibly stupid, you won't tell them because that would be rude and you are not a bad person. But watching someone fictional actually do it feels liberating. Walter White is my absolute favorite from this point of view. Imagine being in his situation on the beginning - how incredibly hard it has to be to stay a good person and carry on. It seems that breaking bad and just showing a middle finger to the world is something people in that situation would love to do, but (thankfully) their moral code won't let them.
Sherlock Holmes, at least the original, is not a sociopath or even close to that. He definitely had issues with getting along with people and was probably on the autism spectrum, but putting him here as a sociopath seems kind of wrong. I also want to mention in the books he had a drug addiction which may have influenced the way he behaved, and also was living in the Victorian times, so being emotionally open wasn't exactly normal for men at that time.
I don't remember anything about a drug addiction in the books... then again maybe it was a name I don't know about? What's the name of the drug he used?
@@shreyaghosh1792 Holmes abused both morphine and cocaine in the books. It's touched on in a few adventures and as far as i know, only one television adaptation
Yeah, like many others on the autism spectrum he gets forcably misdiagnosed with psychopathy and weaponises that perception of him, even if his own claimed diagnosis is just as wrong
I don't think of Don draper as a sociopath, to me he has his self broken and is really narcissistic but he cares deeply about people around him (even if most of the time not people he is sleeping with) and seems to be in pain or distress most of the time. That he is not capable of showing up for people or give more doesn't mean necessarily he is a sociopath, you don't need to be one to be an awful person, to me his priorities are surviving his own feelings and get approval because that is how he cope with the world (and can get away with it) but that doesn't mean he doesn't care about others. He was always a really sad and infuriating character to me but not a sociopath. Just my opinion.
That is the thing about having some traces from a full disorder. Because in my vision House an Sherlock would also not fit on a full sociopath/psycopath profile, but they do have some traces.
To be fair... they didn’t actually say he’s a sociopath. They just said he’s an anti-hero like Walter White and Tony Soprano and that he shows traits of having an anti-social personality and Narcissistic Personality Disorder (all very true). He might care about the people around him but not enough to treat them better or to care about their feelings. It also takes a very detached mind to be able to steal the identity of a man he inadvertently killed and continue with the identity theft for years with no true remorse.
The biggest problem with these characters is that we're rarely ever shown anything past the charismatic front. Sociopaths aren't genuinely charismatic or interesting. They're just good at faking it. Underneath the mask; they're all dead eyed lizard people. Patrick Bateman is the only character in this video who actually seems like a sociopath. Even Dexter is given way too much empathy and charm for realism. A better show would have had him constantly 'slipping' . Seeing how much evil shit he could get past the radar without actually murdering anyone.
I'm not too sure myself but aren't you referring to psychopaths not sociopaths? Because even if they're faking it to some extent they can feel emotion and empathy at varied levels depending on the person. Its of course way less often than the normal person but they aren't completely without it. Thats what differentiates them. Pyschpaths feel absolutely nothing and to put it in your words "dead eyed lizard people." I read about it before but this is just what i remember.
that's wrong, psychopaths aren't interesting, sociopaths are just people with no feeling of guilt and ability to turn off empathy, sociopaths can be very complex. i wouldn't even say sociopaths are immoral, just that they're morals are different. as an example im not a full sociopath just not very emotional, you have a 3 year old child and a 20 year old man, who do you kill. most people would say the 20 year old but no, he has already lived long and formed emotional connections, a lot of people would miss him, government has spent thousands of dollars on his education, vaccinations etc... his parents are old and cant replace him, but the parents of the 3 year old are likely young and can simply make another one after they get over the death. neither choice is immoral one is emotional and one is logical.
No. It based on the concept of the Ice Cold Blonde typified by Annette Kuhn. The sense of a traditional beauty aesthetics of blonde in history juxtasposed with a fiery interior.
It's because of the concept that white, blond, pale people are cold and don't show their emotions, as dark, black haired people are warmer and passionate and emotional. Which is completely true even geographically, southerners are much more warmer and enjoying life than Northerners. And it makes sense for a portrait of a sociopath to be in the colder palette.
Honestly the thought of not feeling and being able to do what you want without second thought is invigorating and I think some people even envy them for it, such as myself. I gained such a fascination with their lack of emotion that I developed the ability to switch my emotions off. It may also be so easy for me to do so because my mom is a sociopath who always told me to think instead of feel when I showed any negative emotions. Who knows.
I love the shot of Anton calmly walking away from the exploding car, because it highlights a central aspect of psychopathy, according to psychologists, which is their lack of response to fearful stimuli.
Ditto, I love how the story delves into the mind of the sociopathic Amy, and even when she ruins Nick's life, you can't help but ultimately pity her at times.
“Sociopath” has deficiencies in three areas: 1, moral reasoning. 2, empathy. 3, impulse control. The spectrum varies for each sociopath. When Classifying as a “psychopath”, it is usually in reference to someone who is severely without any moral reasoning, has zero empathy, and very poor impulse control. All psychopaths are sociopaths but not all sociopaths qualify as severely Deficient in all three: moral reasoning, empathy, and impulse control.
We enjoy watching sociopath characters because we are hoping for to see a semblance of humanity in them to give us a reason to redeem them in our eyes. People love to have a reason to cheer on the underdog or the one who is different but before we can do so we need to be able to relate to them in some way. That’s what we’re looking for in these characters- something familiar we can relate to so that we can comfort ourselves that even the mentally unsound are able to care and be ‘good’.
@@MayHugger um pretty sure if they don't get caught easily it isn't a low functioning sociopath cause low functioning sociopath get caught alot more easier
@@ryanthereaper5032 They only don’t get caught in anime cause they’re the perceived “perfect waifu best girl” and them getting caught for all the stupid shit they did would ruin that look. Yanderes irl wouldn’t last long without getting caught.
Well, that doesn't sell 🤷🏻♀️it's like, no commercial best-selling movie would be portraying the ugly and devastating struggle of someone with low-functioning autism, or their family members; the vast audience are only interested in the lone, misunderstood genius. 🤷🏻♀️
I think the main reason why we find these people so attractive is because we view a better version of ourselves in them. Besides the obvious bad they've done, sociopaths take on life head first and that's something we all want. They're literally what we wish we were.
until you realise they don’t feel anything so their lives aren’t as great as ours because they lack human emotions like happiness, excitement, love or sadness
@@flower_topia not true at all. i doubt many humans have lived without feeling anything at all, maybe they've struggled to or chosen not to convey it or you couldn't understand why they felt how they did, but everybody feels emotions. if they felt no emotions they would not bother doing all the manipulation that everybody says they constantly do- they would gain nothing from it because they wouldn't be excited or happy about the consequences of their actions! they're not robots.
The only thing I hate that is shown in these movies is that sociopaths are always violent when that's not the case irl..so are, yes, but so are those who don't lack empathy.
It would be remiss to not mention the fact that, sometimes, autistic people (and thus characters) are mistaken for being sociopathic, uncaring or unfeeling. Which is, in fiction and reality, patently untrue: we feel quite a bit, but the conveyance gets somewhat muddled, sometimes. It's also untrue that all autistic folks "read" as autistic (whatever that means) but I've had enough people say they doubt me that I know it's apparently something.
YES! I was surprised to see Sherlock in this video, because that portrayal of the character has so often been identified as having characteristics of ASD. Enough so that, snarky Aspie that I am, every time he used that "high functioning sociopath" line, I'd snap at the TV, "Liar! You're high functioning, high IQ Autistic! We know our kind!" Andrew Scott's Moriarty, however, absolutely *was* a gloriously lovable sociopath! He made a delightful villain.
@@neuralmute Precís! I was diagnosed with ASD as an adult, I suspect largely because I had the unfortunate luck of being trained in classical speech & drama for 15 years, and thus became very adept at showing whatever surface personality any given situation warranted! I was also surprised to see House in there as, for one, he's just a Sherlock template, but also because he very clearly does have empathy in the show and isn't at all sociopathic--he's a jerk, and also in a lot of pain. (I LOVE that "Liar! We know our own kind!" line, btw. Had a good giggle over that. I have lately been quite enamored with the idea/metaphor of aspies being fey changelings, and indeed, we do know our own kind and can spot them a mile away--to the extent that my friends with ASD were surprised when I told them my diagnosis.... not because they didn't think I was also on the spectrum, but because they had always assumed I was and just hadn't directly mentioned it or brought it up explicitly for whatever reason!)
@@sophroniel Aha! A fellow Stage Aspie! I did some serious training in music (flute and piano are my main instruments, and I also play piccolo, some sax, a bit of mandolin, and terrible violin noises), and a whole lot of years of ballet, which is one of my big obsessions. With both, you learn to perform, and show a smooth, professional surface. And dancers have to learn how to act, too, without even talking. I've done a fair bit of amateur theatre, and it's a hell of a lot of fun! But people who know me well understood my diagnosis right away - they've heard me say a thousand times, "I only get stage fright when I'm not onstage!" I love your changeling metaphor - it certainly feels like that at times! I tried to convince my little nieces that I was an alien once; that's my favourite metaphor. Too bad the kids didn't believe me! I agree on House as well. He's complicated - he's an addict, he's got chronic pain, he's a snarky bastard, AND he's based on Sherlock Holmes, (only as a doctor), who was never a terribly friendly or sociable character. And he does show compassion from time to time, it just takes a lot for him to crack his shell, much like Sherlock.
I was surprised to see Rick from Rick and Morty (I haven’t full watched the video yet so I don’t know if they talk about him other than the clips at the beginning) is confirmed to be autistic by a joke in the show. It’s misleading to have him even included in the video.
There are a lot of characters shown in this video who aren’t really sociopaths/psychopaths. Some are just destructive or simply doesn’t care about other peoples feelings.
@@janayholmes6072 it’s not though. You can be a bad person who knows what you’re doing is wrong and feel all the emotions associated with knowing that fact AND STILL do them. Maybe you’re self-sabotaging. Maybe you’re spiteful. There are literally an infinite amount of different reasons for someone to do bad things. To be a sociopath/psychopath the bad things you do have to have little to no actual emotional impact on you. There’s a difference between ignoring your moral compass (or maybe just having a less conventional one) and not having a built-in moral compass at all.
@@emotrash Except they explained that Sociopaths, unlike psychopaths, are able to differentiate between what's morally right and wrong. You are still describing someone who is sociopathic.
@@CollinMcLean They're not making a moral distinction though. It's more like they understand that society would punish them for certain behaviors if they got caught.
@@CollinMcLean Sociopaths and psychopaths aren’t even real defined diagnosis. It’s basically the scary pop-culture version of anti-social personality disorder. Even if we go by their definition, and a sociopath can differentiate between what’s right and wrong, the important thing is that it still doesn’t have an emotional impact. You can’t just say anyone who does something bad even if they know it’s bad is a sociopath. That would be literally everyone.
I dated a girl who I let gaslight me into believing that I am a narcissistic sociopath. I mean, I really hated myself and then I became suicidal and she just said I was manipulating her… Which made me feel so bad that I threw my phone into Lake Michigan and drove until I ran out of gas. That was 3 years ago and I’m still avoiding people because I don’t want people to misinterpret my actions.
Many of the characters displayed here, especially the "genius" ones, are most times considered to be autistic-coded (sometimes even confirmed to be so, like in the case of Rick). I think it would make an interesting video to talk about how the media portrays and often times simplifies to a cliche people on the spectrum, and also sometimes downright villanizes them and turns them into empathy deprived, as shown here, "sociopaths".
There's this common habit of treating characters who are autistic as sociopathic because they don't get social cues, which means they must not be able to feel emotions. Except a good portion of autistic people are HYPER empaths and over empathize with people and react more strongly to their emotional states and social miscues, which often causes heightened distress.
I' m autistic, and I don't think it's all about neurotypicals misreading autistic spectrum people as lacking empathy - I think with some of the characters portrayed - Rick and Sherlock specifically, that they are both on the autistic spectrum and the spectrum of severity for antisocial personality disorder, and that the latter has developed partly as a way to cope with the negativity recieved for the former. I think it's very obvious that Sherlock calling himself a sociopath is him being deliberately edgy and pushing people away, and that he has embraced the perception of himself as 'cold and calculating', decided to live up to it - and that's why his friendship with Watson is so complicated for him, it disproves this 'shield' of being cold and emotionless. Rick is a depressed nihilist who has been rejected on a lot of different levels, clearly is unhappy, and takes it out on the world - and part of that rejection is because he has been continually misunderstood, which he, for the ego-boost to invert the shame, chalks up to his great genius going over people's heads - but it's obvious from how miserable he is that lying to himself and others doesn't really work. There are certainly other characters that are more obviously a conflation of autism (especially what was formerly termed Asperger's) and psychopathy, this idea of someone just 'born unable to connect to others', but I don't think Rick and Sherlock are meant to be those.
Besides Rick what other characters in the video were written to portray people on the spectrum? Because it wouldn’t make sense to say that characters that are written to be sociopaths or psychopaths are being used to villainize people with autism if no one intended to write characters with autism. And I’ve never seen Rick as evil.
@@MrBazBake Autistic people do have empathy, it's just difficult for them to express it in conventional ways. And autistic people are far more likely to be victimized by sociopaths than to be one, since they have trouble detecting malicious intent.
a pregnant friend of mine killed themselves during her 5th year dating a sociopath. I wanna be fair and say it wasn't completely due to him but I know they played a fair part.
The more one learns the less happy they become. To be smart an kind is to find peace within an without something our society put less than zero value on. In a capitalist society the most successful people have the least emotion. Bob Marley said it best wealth is the love one has for other's and the love other's have for them. Some of the richest people I kown are the poorest people I kown.
@@RandomSkyeRoses not technically, since studies have shown that the higher someone's IQ, the more unhappy they are which usually leads to them being more rude or mean.
In order to be truly smart, you need to have a true understanding of people and the world, a truly realistic understanding of things, which is very rare for people with empathy.
I'm not trying to justify them or anything but I think sociopaths do care when someone gets hurt, or at least empathize. After all they're made not born into it and can relate to one's suffering. Not in a "I'm worried about the pain your feeling and hope you get better" but more "yeah that hurts I hope that doesn't happen to me". But yeah I agree with @horace unless they're not the one's causing it they probably get off at the sense of power they get over hurting someone. Anyways just my 2 scents
Sociopaths are attractive, particularly to women, for a very simple evolutionary reason. A dangerous man can protect his mate and offspring. It also taps into the ego. "Well he is dangerous to everyone else but not to me because I have the key to his cold heart." Unfortunately what many people find out is that a snake is a snake no matter how you pet it.
Facts its why you'll see women with thugs thinking oh I'm gonna be protected when it's the complete opposite and you just put yourself in the most dangerous situation you could of imagined cause you're not anyone else to them you're just someone they think they need for now but once that changes and they feel you're a threat trust me they'll go from loving to hostile in a short amount of time
Villanelle is a very fascinating character who is portrayed by a brilliant actress. Jodie Comer is amazing. Much love to Sandra Oh and Finoa Shaw as well
The thing about some of the characters such as Sherlock and maybe to an extent House, they aren’t sociopaths. Hell Sherlock doesn’t even seem to have anti-personality disorder.
I think Sherlock (in the BBC context) if anything seems to have some pretty intense trauma. Book Holmes has traits of possible bipolar disorder or depression. Of course you can't really diagnose a fictional character, but I can't think of any Sherlock Holmes adaptation I've seen who I'd say has any kind of personality disorder (not that it'd be inherently a bad thing anyway)
@@caitlin329 exactly. Sherlock closed himself by using the term high functioning sociopath is because he avoid emotions and emotions lead him to his buried trauma. He doesn't have any disorder, he just needs therapy for his ptsd.
What about the opposite sentiment for the opposet character: Why do we Hate the Compassionate overly Benevolent characters, like in children's television?
Sociopathy is not even a psychiatric diagnosis in most of the world... but I want to just say, even if it were, there are many a great article on the internet of why Sherlock would not be diagnosed as one, sorry. Some written by real life psychiatrists and psychologists. One said he'd most likely get a schizoid PD diagnosis if he were forced onto a psychiatrist's couch. If you want a defined pathology.
Oh and please, don't even get me started on Patrick Jane. Not all his actions are okay, obviously. But he is honestly a hero for the people around him (and not for catching criminals) - in how he has this childlike wonder and curiosity that he gives those around him instead of being serious and depressed, and cynical all the time as most people would with a trauma such as his. That one single thing alone is heroic.
finally! someone with critical thinking! I expected The Take to take the subject more seriously than just running around labeling everyone a sociopaths while there are so many other personality disorders.
Everyone who watches sherlock knows that high functioning sociopath is just how sherlock think of himself, i don't even think he believes that. It most likely he said that so expectations for himself as a person are low and he can get away doing things in a pursuit of doing his job as a consulting detective. Also it's clear he chooses to avoid emotions.
I agree that he wouldn't be a sociopath, but as someone who has been diagnosed with schizoid personality traits I seriously doubt that he would have schizoid PD either. Schizoid PD is described as the PD with the lowest quality of life and while people with the disorder could be pretty successful working on their own (just like Sherlock), I believe he doesn't show anything near close enough to the emotional turmoil related to contact with other people that comes with a schizoid PD. I would argue that he shows fewer schizoid traits than me and I don't have the fully developed PD.
well you can not say for sure because he can have traits and be one or he can have traits and not be one. Only through diagnosis by interacting with him it can be said with certainty.
@@Lena-lw6kl ummm excuse me have you watched the show at all?? He shows clear signs of sociopathy many times in the show. I doubt if Sherlock is the type of guy to go to a doctor or therapist to tell him what’s wrong with him . Even the man referred to himself as a sociopath multiple times. How does that not qualify as “interacting with him”?
For several years, I've come to this channel and been amazed at the insight and perspective to be found here. I am performing "sad" today, because you put Psychopath and Sociopath in the same arena; turning years of thoughtfulness from your channel, inside-out. There is so much nuance in both states, that they could each have their own video...too bad you chose to lump them together even MORE in the public consciousness.
Oh, he was fun to watch.. years later, rewatching the series... but the first time I was so invested in the main characters, I was frozen in fear every time Kai would appear anywhere because he was extremely unpredictable and always caused chaos upon chaos.
@@christasolo4932 same! I didn't really like him the first time I watched it (same with Moriarty in Sherlock to some extent), but rewatching I loved the characters so much.
The way I freaked out when I saw Mads Mikkelsen in the thumbnail! Also Rihanna loved that show which is why she included him in her "Bitch Better Have My Money" video
I don't remember where I heard it before, but that tiny clip in there reminded me... "Intelligence is knowing that Frankenstein isn't the monster of the story. Wisdom is knowing that Frankenstein IS the actual monster in the story." - of course, reading the book helps with that also.
My favorite likable sociopath will forever be Azula from Avatar: The Last Airbender. She’s terrifying and powerful and often lacks empathy, but you can’t help but like her because of her bending prowess, her memorable lines, and her ability to keep the main characters of the show on their feet. She plays a formidable foe for Team Avatar that every time she showed up, you knew the fights in the episode would be epic and captivating. And sometimes she did show some empathy for Zuko and Ty Lee, but it was rare and only made her more intriguing. Azula has so many layers to her character that even though she’s ruthless and bloodthirsty, you still want to see more of her in the show. And when she has that mental breakdown near the end of the show, despite her horrible actions, you can’t help but feel a bit of sympathy for her. Even though she’s not a good person, you can’t help but like her. You honestly can’t help it. Characters like Azula give so much depth to a story because even though their actions might be morally reprehensible, their personality traits make them likeable and even sometimes admirable.
Azula is a remarkable villain, and you can tell that being the firelord's favorite child affected her behavior, since she was praised for doing terrible things. And if she didn't do that, she would be "treated like Zuko" aka abused and neglected. But you can still feel bad for her when she has a mental breakdown at the end of the show, when she realizes she has no one to trust and believes her mother didn't love her. Her entire mindset was wrong, and she didn't have someone to guide her and help her question herself, like Zuko had. It's kind of a tragedy, really.
especially since his coping methods make so much sense (not in a good or reasonable way but... yknow) he hurts people before they can hurt him, and cannibalism is a very literal way of overcoming what scares you. his relationship w/ will provides a healthier (ehhh) method of coping. im not excusing eating ppl i just really like this character lol he is still a bad personof course
I kind of wish some other animated socios were mentioned in this analysis. Such as Light form Death Note, Yoshikage from JJBA and Azula from ATLA. I feel animation can and do a lot with this trope.
Diagnosed (ASPD) sociopath here now this is a pretty edgy teenager thing to do starting like that on a comment but it kinda disables us who actually are to speak up on our disorder and the stigma that comes with it, yeah we don't feel most normal things neurotypicals feel and yeah we can't feel empathy, at least affective one but we can feel cognitive empathy, my point is we can be good people its just a bit more of a challenge than most of you, we are not bad People but it certainly is easier for us to be that way Anyway im gonna stop rambling on my point is, we are not bad people and most of the stigma around us is dramatised
@@brideofallunquietthings888 i believe i differentiated the kinds of empathy I can't feel and the kind i can, i feel no remorse and no "affective" empathy, but im perfectly capable of cognitive therapy which takes effort, i was diagnosed in a juvenile facility after i stabbed someone in the head and in their arm for "disrespecting" me, i know i am a sociopath but that can't and will never define me, after cognitive therapy i was able to feel empathy for the other person and i understood i was wrong in doing so, and i was literally talking about how we shouldn't be defined as evil people because of the stigma and dramatisation of the disorder
@@brideofallunquietthings888 i mean cognitive therapy can go a long way, but affective empathy is not possible, at least not currently there still isn't a cure or a therapy to fix that, so i honestly don't know
I agree with you. Tropes about mental illnesses are the worst way to understand them. The ASPD community must be one of the most marginalised. Tipically because of ppl who use the terms sociopath/psychopath as synonyms to criminal.
"Unlikable savant, sociopaths-" that's a perfect description of this trope but also highlights the key problem with it. Savants are almost exclusively people with autism. Most autistic people on screen have savants, most autistic people in real life do not. Autism is not the same as sociopathy, psychopathy or borderline personality disorder. It literally comes down to not having social skills. Maybe you people could do an analysis on savant trope and other autistic stereotypes.
"The line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either -- but right through every human heart -- and through all human hearts. This line shifts. Inside us, it oscillates with the years. And even within hearts overwhelmed by evil, one small bridgehead of good is retained." -Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
This video shows a deep lack of misunderstanding of what a sociopath is and is conflating them with a psychopath. Which are completely different. And I have the authority to speak in this as a diagnosed sociopath.
It's interesting to me how often sociopathy and ASD are coded in the same people in fiction and literature. This might be do to society's difficulty understand the perspectives _of_ those on the Autism Spectrum.
I remember when You first premiered and I actually cried in the season 1 finale because it disgusted and disturbed me so much and so many of my girl friends were fawning over him on social media and I was like, He is a terrifying and sick individual?? And they were like, BUT HE'S HOT! I find the same confusion coming up for me when I hear women say they find Ted Bundy or Richard Ramirez handsome. But then idk, I have always felt attraction towards a person based more on their behavior and character and less about looks, but it still scares me when people are almost wanting to look past a character's horrifying psyche because they happen to be decently good looking or have abs.
I'm really surprised to read your comment. I havent seen anyone who even genuinely FAWNS over him. The ones that do like him is mostly because of he's an interesting character and because he's funny. But even they hate his actions. Tbh if you ever wanna reassure yourself, go to ANY video about You featuring him. Most of the top comments are people hating him, obviously for good reason. Even the actor who plays him doesn't like the character.
@@deej5608 to be honest Im surprised Shawn is on there 😂 he doesnt fit the bill. Hes smart and cocky but he cares very much for people and expresses it.
Just look at Last of Us part 2. Certain characters were completely justified in their reaction and actions but because we weren’t shown from their perspective until after a dark deed -people hated them and completely refused to understand them. Even though the person the person they liked did something just as terrible and selfish.
@@jacobodom8401 Yes! I was thinking of the same thing when I read the OP’s comment. Maybe I was able to look at things more objectively since I only watched the gameplay of 2, and some of gameplay from the first one. Did Joel deserve what happened to him? Are some crimes so irredeemable that a person can never be forgiven? I’m asking rhetorically, but also feel free to add your perspective.
In reference to that article about Rick, saying that these characters give us the fantasy of never having to change, one thing I really liked about Hannibal (TV show) is that although it leans HEAVILY on the romanization of the psychopath, his entire character's arc throughout the show is actually based on change, and the need for change. He wants this human connection which would require him to change and abandon his entire, carefully constructed persona. Changing thanks to our relationships with others is the basis of inner growth and human connection, and that is exactly what Hannibal goes through, despite seeing himself as perfect, and initially trying be the one to change Will without himself changing, he eventually is forced to change himself in order to be able to have that connection, and even if in the character's case it means still being quite fucked up and evil, the basic idea is one that can be relatable and even a good example for everyone.
Sociopathy and psychopathy arent diagnoses anymore, only antisocial personality disorder since there really are no real distinctions Edit: might be wrong though since Im no psychologist
Thank you for speaking up. We should trust sources that have studied these subjects extensively. Not magazines that just repeat stuff they liked the sound of.
no you ae right. im a psych major and its all under antisocial personality disorder. but there are a few distinctive qualities between a psychopath and a sociopath.
I've had this question on my mind for a long time. Characters like Hanibal, Loki , Grindelwald , Lucifer, why was i so fascinated by them, why , despite all the wrong doings , i couldn't bring myself to detest them. Was it their charisma , their attitude or the moral complexity they share? Thank you , the take , for covering this topic in your essay and for providing me answers. Your work is a blessing to my soul ;)
Because its media for entertainment, and they make these characters highly intelligent, have charm and charisma, and generally good looking. If you knew someone like this in real life, they'd probably try to destroy your life in some way for their own gain. A lot of them cant understand what others feel so they have less empathy
@Krisynthia Gomez I agree their more like chaotic neutrals and when something benefits them they do it. But they seem to be quite remorseful of their wrongdoings which leads me to believe they are neither.
Loki isn't a sociopath (at least not the MCU version). Which Lucifer are you referring to? The one from Supernatural? Sure. Lucifer Morningstar? Not really. There's a lot of Lucifers so maybe you mean one of those? ...actually, there was a real Loki on Supernatural as well that an angel was impersonating but I can't remember much about him... They never did explain what the pagan Gods actually were or where they came from on that show did they?
@Trumpville sociopath act without thinking how others will be affected-they tend to lack sympathy. Psychopaths are more “cold-hearted” and calculating. They carefully plot their moves, and use aggression in a planned-out way to get what they want -they can't empathise with people.
I like how this makes it seem like this is a Steven Moffat quote about Steven Moffat, which I'm willing to buy because he hates his fans and turned Sherlock into his cool sexy self-insert fanfic after a while.
Wait. Arent sociopaths more impulsive, irresponsible & not great at keeping a job whereas a psychopath is more calculated & successful in their career?
Since when was Sherlock Holmes a sociopath? And you mentioned Alexander de Large, one of the most iconic sociopaths ever, but you didn't delve into the complexities of his character. Like how he is cultured, with his love and knowledge of Beethoven and music, and his vast vocabulary and fashion sense.
It's being a while since Hollywood decided to turn the bad guys into the people we are supposed to root for... and a lot of people agreed without even giving a second thought. Probably because they can empathize easier with morally questionable people? And no, I do not envy or find sociopaths 'charming'. That is sick.
I totally agree... Tired of this trope. Everything is made up to empathize with'em You never see any "bad" outcome to their actions. They're always doing the "right" thing despite their own impulses, the bad man always dies at their hand and society's contradictions get called out by their oh-so-charming wit. They're scripted to be charming, but IRL we'd be fucked up by them.
An empty man can never truly deceive you, not if you actually understand that they are empty. I like the sociopathic character, I understand them and enjoy the danger and excitement. And when I finally get bored I know they will either leave me changed forever or dead.
Recent studies into sociopathy and psychopathy show they don’t actual lack empathy. There just able to ignore it easily. More like you have it turned on and you dehumanize your turn it off but sociopaths have it naturally off and have to try to turn it on.
@@user-ox3lr8eq5s cognitive empathy also known as theory of mind or mentalizing, the ability to literally trying imagine yourself in another’s shoes through mental imagination and intellectual understanding. Affective empathy or emotional contagion is when you feel another person’s emotions and feelings, you’re literally feel and identity with their emotions when you societally interact with them. Normal children tends to have high affective empathy. While adults have average levels of both cognitive empathy and affective empathy. Psychopaths have high cognitive empathy but deficient in their affective empathy, they can understand what people thinking and feeling but not truly feeling any connection with their victims.
I like how you pointed out that Don Draper from Mad Men is a sociopath. I've seen self-improvement videos on RUclips that use him as an example of something to aspire to in terms of charisma and all that, but it is alarming how these people overlook the fact that such characters are damaged and have equally bad characteristics.
To be honest I think we are wired to like sociopaths. We find them likable till we start seeing the destructive behavior and our defense system kicks in. How many times have we seen people talk about a number of murderers and serial killers for them to say they wouldn't have ever guessed what skeletons they locked up in the proverbial closet. On screen while the audience may know that character is a sociopath a lot of it is coded in a quirky humor that people identify with.
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You are not mental health professional. This is problematic.this is just movie tropes. Not what anti social personality disorder is really like
How could you not talk about Nightcrawler
I note most of the mastermind sociopaths you showed are versians of Sherlock
Ooh I love this
Why do you talk like you are 5 years old whiny girl? "The take"
I like this trope because the characters are so interesting and entertaining, but it’s disturbing and horrifying when people idolize them and want to become like them. It’s similar to how real life serial killers have fans and inspire others to become serial killers, like how Ted Bundy has so many admirers and even married one.
I think it's okay to like them because of their personality. I just don't like when people just makes excuse for them doing bad things just because they like them. You can like someone but still understand why they have to be punished.
These characters are too far up their own asses and walk around with a god complex, they treat others as if they are a subcategory that is beneath them so I really enjoy it when they get knocked down a peg. I think society is giving them a little too much admiration and attention that which they feel utterly entitled to like the narcissists that they are. They mistake kindness for weakness, empathy is something society absolutely needs in order to be successful. How are humans supposed to advance forward if we are detached and have this all-for-one attitude? I don’t think they should be shunned from society or shamed, my sister is actually acquainted with a sociopath who she no longer wants any contact with, but that doesn’t stop her from randomly asking my sister if she can come over whenever she wants to regardless of my sister’s feelings. To anyone who idolizes them, just know that these people will walk all over you with no regret if you don’t draw the line, have some self respect because they clearly don’t have any for you.
is sad but some people tend to be sheep, and they have the need to look up to someone or something they feel is greater than them; criminals, politicians, religion. Or even fans that become too obsessed. These people tend to invest their whole identity towards those these idols, causing them to lose their own identity or self respect.
That’s what I wonder about fans of these characters. There cool to watch but their pretentiousness gets on my nerves sometimes. Also I’ve been around and lived with people like them and their is not a badass thing about them. I also think that looks is another reason why they have huge followings. If they were less attractive or cool looking, fat, or had a really weird voice, they wouldn’t have a huge following.
@@kpopfan246 Oh my god yes! Their pretentiousness grates on my nerves! They already think they are hot shit that are soul sucking assholes, they don’t require your fawning, which they will by the way exploit you with. My older brother is a narcissist and I in no way envy him, it must be lonely to have a “me against the world” mindset and always wanting more and more and never really recuperating and being too blind to see it and constantly having to uphold the false self.
Having a sociopathic father, I've long been fascinated by people's love of, and even sexualization of, sociopaths in media. They're always portrayed as intelligent, when that's definitely not a rule with them, as sexy, as super charming and suave, when sometimes they're all rage.
The thing that bothers me most about how they're portrayed is the sympathy shown for the ones who are that way because of abuse. Abuse is a cause, not a justification. Sure, my father was abused and that's how he became what he is. But he in turn abused me and I am capable of empathy and kindness. I chose to fight against that hate and anger I was exposed to.
I'm sorry that happened to you, but good job being a good person.
Precisely, there's no excuse for anything a person does just because they were abused
This is extremely true,they are great actors and manipulators but they can also be stupid and not cunning.Just because they were abused doesn’t mean they should be empathized with other wise every abused person would be a sociopath.
Words of truth
@@suryarichman Exactly, most abused people come out the other side damaged, but empathetic and compassionate. We have to start identifying it as a cause, not an excuse. There are so many shows that will show an awful childhood as a character's background, then basically say it was inevitable that they would turn out evil. That's a really damaging idea.
My favourite part of this trope is that the "loveable sociopath" almost never meets the diagnostic criteria for antisocial personality disorder. This trope is purely fiction
so true for real
literally
these "loveable sociopaths" are never ever manipulative... very odd
@@GastropodGaming2006 Hannibal is pretty manipulative. I’m not as familiar with the others, but tv show and movie him fit that criteria
@@dinosaur___7209 ah. forgot abt him.
The only thing I don't like about this trope is how glamorized it is by Hollywood, like if they didn't cast charming and attractive people to portray this mental disorder I don't think people would be as fascinated with it or would idolize these people so much.
Sociopaths are generally charming though. Having an actor who is physically attractive makes their charm easier to portray on screen. Audiences can more easily understand why people fall for them in the films
I think that’s the point tho? That we as society let them slide by being immoral even tho we wouldn’t let someone less attractive do the same. Think about the guy who got famous bc his mugshot was attractive. There’s also studies showing how we judge the same crimes harsher for uglier people.
@@izzywoods794 while that’s true it doesn’t have much weight in my opinion when Hollywood usually wants to make everyone beautiful and have a personality that’s airbrushed lol
Maybe in regards to cinema. I've read plenty of stories with characters who are horrible excuses for human beings, and the entertainment comes from the warped way they view the world, or by them trying to act normal and failing horribly.
That and there's a bit of catharsis in reading about someone acting on the various thoughts and impulses we regularly burr on regular basis. Because lets face it, we would all like to speak our minds and damn the consequences, punch that asshole boss in the face, and take whatever we want, we would ruin all the relationships we need to function, probably suffer legal ramifications, and most likely feel like shit as soon as our temper cooled. In that regard there's a small amount of living those impulses vicariously through such fictional characters.
Unfortunately that's the way its always been in this world. Beauty gets you places. I saw an interesting video that that talked about the same issue going on in the music industry. The video showed countless examples of super attractive male and female singers and as a contrast they showed one middle aged singer that showed up on Britain's Got Talent if I'm right and proceeded to shock millions with her beutiful voice. At first glance this woman didn't look all that much. Admittedly she looked unattractive and in the video clip of her on the show you could just tell the judges were judging her before she even sang.
Villanele is such a terrific character that she turns the other people around her into sociopaths
I frickn love Moriarty
@Ronald Martin If you did meet one, you wouldn't live to tell the tale. lol
Are we just going to ignore Hannibal Lecter or...?
this is a common trait w most narcissists
This comment made me watch Killing Eve. Such a good show!!
As an actual, diagnosed sociopath, this is an interesting video. Your film points are spot on but the psychology is all wrong. Don't feel bad though, no one ever gets it right. The "rules" are there as not so much of a disguise but a formula to solve a problem. It must be solved to protect oneself from others. The call and response of superficial conversations, the cold math of what you can do vs what you must do. It's not to gain power or hurt people, it's to survive a world you simply don't understand because if anyone ever knew who you really were they'd hate and fear you. Which would be fine but then you'd be alone with only yourself. In a void, you have no meaning. The rules are there to give yourself meaning and a thing (society) to compare yourself to so that you know you exist. Otherwise you're just another number in the equation. Everyone wants to matter and have meaning, even if your meaning is different.
Eloquently put.
Exquisite head ahh 🤓
Interesting
No, rules are there to prohibit you from doing what you were born to do. If you truly were truly a sosiopath, unless the rules were in your favor you would be against them.
This is quite similar, though not identical, to how I and many others like me navigate through the world when we’re forced to mask our autism. It’s stressful, anxiety and depression-inducing, frustrating and then for some of us, a means to an end and so fuck everyone else.
I have to disagree with the fact that in real life these types of sociopaths would have us running. People who are sociopaths and their ability to be likable and blend in is actually one of the things that I believe Hollywood does right with this particular mental health diagnosis because it is true about sociopaths in real life. I interviewed several sociopaths in my military training and without knowing that's what they were, I'd have never guessed it. It's our hubris in thinking we'd be able to tell if we are being manipulated. It societies predisposition to value confidence and showmanship that makes us think that we'd be able to spot them. After all, there is a reason why a lot of people in positions of power fit the bill for sociopathy, and some of them being in positions we the people put them in willingly.
You are totally right
👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽. Also thank you for your service.
i thought that sociopaths (and psychopaths) aren’t medically recognized?
I knew a sociopath in real life and while she blended in at first, people came around to her true nature after a month or so and started collectively disliking her. Maybe she was just a sociopath wannabe?
@@hollywoodshopaholic No, that’s usually how it goes when someone is putting up a front. No matter how good of an actor they are, you start to get hints of their true nature when you’re around them longer. That’s why I hate 1st impressions, people are only going to show you what they want you to see.
I couldn’t watch “YOU.” I was married to someone like joe, I thank God I made it out alive with my infant daughter. Coparenting is literally hell with this person.
He watched you outside a window and followed you around and shit?
@Akshay 786 the likelihood of her marrying him as he is now, is low. Sociopaths know how to get what they want, and it can be years before they basically have you on a leash and can show their true, narcissistic, sociopathic selves. That is when they become a monster that is incredibly hard to get away from.
Glad you escaped from him, can't imagine having to raise a child with someone like that.
So was I. 4 years too long. I had an infant daughter too. Got out right before her 3rd birthday. It is not cute, even if they were a fraction of what joe (from you) was. I hope you’re ok. You’re never alone. I hope you don’t have to deal with him still and if I do I hope it’s smooth
Im really sorry for that
I tend to find people glorify male sociopaths more than female ones, and often demonize the female ones.
Yep. Good ol' sexism.
Depends. Women tend to glorify male sociopaths more then men do.
Men don't usually glorify female sociopaths.
Alot of women are attracted to those type of men.
@@mariebourgot4949 Women glamorize male sociopaths tho.... why you gotta make sh*t political ? You sound like a tool honestly
@Millie I stand by what ive said. Go look up hannibal videos or david from fear videos and youll find its mostly women gushing over that. Hell, even real life serial killers. The commenter said "good ol sexism" and yet , a noticable percentage of women are perpetuating it. Dont even get me started on the music videos they create too. Men do glamorize them too(youll find that in the case of some "hot" psycho women) but women typically do it to a larger degree. This isnt a sexism thing. Also, another factor is there arent many female sociopaths or psychopaths in film. The number for males far exceed the female ones and this can apply to real life too(AntiSocialPersonalityDisorder is more common in males than females, so it would make sense to have a male sociopath or psychopath in film most of the time).Amy from gone girl is probably the most used example for the female type and people still praise her for her beauty/ coldness. My comment wasnt to the OP , it was to marie bourgot.
@@bloodieddeadman6.1.65 i would also say the female variants are more unpleasant, or better said the method to their madness is, they just come off as turning the bitchy scale up to 11
I see people who say “you can like a villain/antagonistic character but don’t excuse their actions” but it’s not like they’re a real idol/celebrity. When people like bad characters it’s because they’re well written. They’re good at being bad and that’s what makes them interesting.
Fax
If people say that, it's because some of these fans go way further than just appreciating a well written character. Some actually end up idiolising/romanticing/eroticising/glamoring these type of personality in real life that cause a lot of misconceptions/ignorance that end up causing a lot of suffering.
If you find yourself liking, empathising with and even rooting for a sociopath, then at least you know that the actors and writers have done their jobs well! 👏🏾😉
It’s weird because I can admit that there are a lot of great shows with great actors focused on likable sociopaths, but it’s hard for me to get invested in them because the characters are so morally reprehensible.
I still need to finish Breaking Bad and Mad Men to this day.
I bet lots of people briefly imagined themselves as 2019 Joker. I haven't rooted for a character like that since Sweeney Todd
That's why Tywin Lannister is the best Lannister ;)
@@tariqthomas9090 If you didn't finish breaking bad because of Walter White, then you are missing out. I actually started to hate his egotistical, borderline narcissistic ass. Although Jesse broke bad too, he at least showed signs of regret, trauma, and emotion to everything that went wrong. Walter became power hungry and didn't even care who got in his way any more. He just annihilated them. I won't give away spoilers though.
If it happens in real life, though, RUN!
The trope is largely a misnomer based on the literal definition of sociopath (although it is not a real psychological diagnosis so the term is already loose anyway). Being an asshole doesn’t make you a sociopath. Being antisocial doesn’t make you a sociopath. Even being a murderer doesn’t make you a sociopath. It’s a lot more complex than just a negative trait or two. Or even a trait that just isn’t neurotypical (ie. not understanding social cues, not able to process the emotions of others, etc.) If we go by what movies tend to define a sociopath as, basically every villain is a sociopath. I think that’s largely the issue.
Hollywood just has to stop calling every villainous character a sociopath or going out of their way to code them as such. Not only is it uninspired it’s just incorrect.
Say it louder for the people in the back
Azula from Avatar is also an excellent example of the female sociopath. So much so a lot of people got very angry when she never got a planned redemption arc.
How could they miss her?
Great example
Ah, yes. Azula is such a fascinating character. All of ATLA and TLOK characters are so good 🌟
Yeah, its rare someone like her would get represented in childrens media, they should have mentioned her!
And I find her character enticing. Such a dope well written character
I'm surprised to see Sherlock in a video about sociopaths. He may call himself one, but his actual behaviour is far more in line with being on the Autistic Spectrum, being extremely intelligent, and simply not caring much what others think. For reference, I'm on the spectrum myself, and I work in the mental health field, often with patients who are also on the spectrum. A lot of us don't express, or recognise emotions as easily as most people, no matter what we're actually feeling. We have deep empathy, but we're often pragmatic about it - we want to fix a situation first if we can, and then we'll melt down later. We tend to be obsessive, and highly observant, with encyclopedic memories involving our particular areas of interest. After she binge watched the series, my own mum nicknamed me "Sherlock". (I immediately nicknamed her "Watson". ;D )
Nope, I think Sherlock as a sociopath is a miss.
Agree.
"high functioning sociopath" was an odd interpretation
@@alexrose20 Every time he said that in the series, I'd call him out on it because talking to the screen is fun - "Liar! You're high functioning, high intelligence Autistic, and we all know it!"
@@neuralmute high functioning is also an unnecessary term
I think at one point Watson classified him as having Aspergers to somebody else.
"Confessions of a Sociopath: A Life Spent Hiding in Plain Sight" is a great look into the mind of a sociopath.
Thanks for letting me know about this!
I am not hiding. When people ask I answer truthfully. One guy even said it was wrong to kill someone if they tried to kill me.😂
On the animated side Light Yagami is another sociopath you almost want to route for because his thinking process is at once so impressive and so terrifyingly apathetic.
I agree with you about his high intellect. He was so good at fooling everyone even L caught on to his act. But I'm glad Light got the ending he deserved lol. Death Note is a classic!
@@camariehowell8240 I don't think L caught on to his act, there's a scene when they both talk under the rain and L asks him (japanese) "have you ever, since you were born told the truth?" Light is shook because he realizes L has always known what he is. He just couldn't prove it. Light was an amazing character who at one point had the world in his hands and no one around him suspected anything but L could see trhough its act and that ultimately made Near caught him.
didn't he only start killing innocent people when L sent agents, innocent people after him? its funny, self righteous people's talking point is 'its wrong to kill anyone,' while not giving a helpful alternative. they will say that during the day but will use lethal force if it's their house being broken into at night, at that moment, the filth won't be so precious to protect and save anymore. the people protecting the violent criminals are terrifyingly apathetic.
Yes, and I think that L might be a psychopath.
He wasn't so apathetic when his own life was at stake. Guy went out crying like a little bitch to Ryuk lmaoo
Sherlock (in BBC) is not an actually a sociopath. He just sais that he is, to avoid getting hurt.
He quickly gets attached to John, calls him his friend in already the second episode (just to get hurt and rejected).
He truly loves Mrs Hudson, literally jumps off a rooftop for John, tried his best not to hurt Molly's feeligs when he understands that she is in love with him...
In the end of the show, he even get some resemblance of a family ...
Exactly! High functioning sociopath is his facade to not let people in
@@deemura the saddest thing is that he gets hurt every time he tries to;
"- This is my friend, John Watson
- Colleague "
@@paperfox8794 i think when he feels, he feels very greatly, better not to open a can of worms. And in the same episode, the blind banker, when he listened to Soo Lin Yao's story, we can see tears on his eyes
Sociopaths arent incapable of love it's just self motivated. It might be because the object of their affection offers stimulation whereas most people are boring or how they reflect their image back st them. It just doesnt translate into a desire to not hurt that person and can switch off if they put a foot wrong.
@@telamere2043 I totally agree, in the case of real sociopaths, like Hannibal Lector or J.D. But the whole point of my comment was that Sherlock isn’t one, and they shouldn’t have included him in the video. He just puts on a cheap facade (that most ppl in his life can see through) to avoid getting hurt.
Beth: Dad, am I evil?
Rick: Worse, you're smart.
Damn good episode. We got a little more background on Beth and Rick's relationship and how they recognize and see themselves in each other.
cringe
@@bw8450 omg so le cringe xD
The irony of having a Gordon Ramsay masterclass ad after they talk about Hannibal
@Nino Sokrivo uhhh the irony is that Hannibal is a cannibal who cooks people like a Michelin star chef, and then a Gordon Ramsey ad plays afterwards. It’s not really irony either, just a funny coincidence.
HAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHA THATS BEAUTIFUL
THAT'S FUCKING RAW
That man I seriously dislike - liking him, his ways, is a bad sign for me.
While I do like a lot of these characters, it's important to recognize that these portrayals can damage people’s perception of real-life people with ASPD. Society chooses only to support mental illnesses that they deem ‘okay,’ such as depression and anxiety. I have seen many people online saying things like people with ASPD should be put down and demonizing people who have it. It is important to recognize that ASPD is a spectrum and that a large majority of people with this disorder are in fact capable of being decent people and deserve our respect. I also need to mention that you shouldn’t have put Sherlock in there. Sherlock is autistic coded and many people mistake the way he acts as sociopathy.
Definitely. There’s enough romanticization of people with ASPD as it is in media but then people hate in real people with it. Same would go with many mental illnesses, which is so terrible and wrong.
Aye, I'm disappointed they didn't cover that. It feels a little irresponsible?
@@gota7738 these videos often miss hitting the nail on the head. They have the “spirit” but don’t dive deep enough
I feel like most of the cluster b personality disorders get shit on, tbh. People often see or hear about a stereotypical version of the disorders and don't realize that there's a spectrum and that not all people with the disorder are the same
Fr one of my friends is a sociopath and he basically just thinks about the consequences of what he does, i.e he's nice to people so they do things for him
I remember rooting for amy dune whilst being endlessly terrified of her. The "cool girl" monologue opened my eyes to things I never imagined to be patriarchal but her blunt decisiveness and will to ruin her husband's life gives me chills
yeah you're definetly gay
Joe doesn't see himself as a villian (which most don't) and has managed to convince the audience that he isn't one either, that's great writing and acting
@@m1k4t0r15 It can be differcult to do and just make them one dimentional and remind us that they're evil. The best played and written character's can be brutal but because they don't see their wrong, neither do we. The audience fall for their charm and manipulation, so it seems realistic that other characters would too.
@@m1k4t0r15 i was speaking about fictional characters and fictional villains...
Joe is such a perfect example of the mental gymnastics a lot of people are willing to do in order to satisfy the basic need to see ourselves as good people inspite of everything. The fact that some people in the audience believe it is more a sign of them needing to examine their own beliefs and histories. Joe is not a good guy, and he doesnt hide it, he merely tries to explain it all away.
@@m1k4t0r15 There actually is such a thing as evil by definition, “profoundly immoral or malevolent”. Murder of innocents (ie. people that have not committed violence against another person) would be considered immoral, (morality: ”concerned with principles of right or wrong”) by North American standards, which is the society in which the series was created/based.
Although I agree that the concept of evil/good and morality are a bit more complex from a philosophical lens, that isn’t the point the other commenters seem to be addressing.
I couldn't romanticize him as soon as he assumed that some girl didn't wear a bra just for him to notice (not to mention masturbating in the bushes).
Villanelle is such an interesting, intriguing, and funny character, you forget how dangerous she is.
Precisely, she's so sophisticated and charming, that you'd ALMOST forget that she's a dangerous criminal, and could kill you without warning! 😱
*True*
@@trinaq What seals it for me is that she can be really childish and immature which is something you never see from psychopathic killers in movies/tv. It gives her another dimension that is very human.
@@mikester4896 yeah that’s why I think that she’s more of a sociopath more than she is a psychopath. Because she’s able to form these relationships and actually care for some people around her or even hate (eve, konstantin, her mother). Normally psychopaths don’t forge those connections nor do they feel almost any emotions.
We can't say the same for all sociopaths ? They're all very charming tbh
This trope exists because in writing you have to make your characters multi-dimensional. If 'bad guys' were only bad, it would be boring, so you have to make each character more interesting, with more substance. It's mostly fictional.
This is like the attractive killer trope
As a newspaper editor, I (unfortunately) routinely edit court copy, sometimes about murders and killers. I’ve never once seen a ‘charming, handsome/pretty killer’ in my years, to date - they’re invariably scruffy, ugly, wired-looking people who I wouldn’t want to leave a goldfish with, let alone field any surprise that they’re responsible for someone’s death, whether deliberately or unintentionally. Attractive killers are *rare* in the real world. Ultimately, someone is dead, which is of more concern than their killer’s mere looks...
@@vercoda9997 The Boston Marathon Bomber who lived was so good looking he ended up on Rolling Stone (thankfully they received tons of backlash), Jodi Arias, Casey Anthony, the guy sho shot up hiscollege because girls wouldn't have sex with him
@@ShainaCilimberg wow I just looked those people up and society's standards are much lower when it comes to killers🤢🤮
@@dianabryan7421 :(
Ted Bundy.
Mads mikalsen's Hannibal is just pure charisma , still cant forget the series !!
he had no fire. he was completely flat. when i buy a movie or tv series i keep it, watch it and look upon it happily forever. i actually threw the dvds in the garbage and i NEVER do that. for how hot he was he was boring and cold. the only time he had fire was when he was with abigail. the only time he had a personality, something he genuinely seemed to like to interact with. then he killed her.
That show is pure genius!
@@GotoMaki4Micah i know him from Death Stranding. His acting was amazing
@@GotoMaki4Micah I looved his version of hannibal BECAUSE he was so dry. He wasn't your cup of tea, that's completely fine :P
I literally love him so much
I really don't like the way our society romanticizes sociopaths. I feel so much empathy for people who suffer at the hands of sociopaths. I feel like their narratives deserve more recognition. Why are we constantly encouraged to root for the abuser?? We need more nuance, seeing more sides of what it feels like to be loved by/love a sociopath.
The answer would be:
The story is more interesting that way
Quoting someone else from the comments:
"I see people who say “you can like a villain/antagonistic character but don’t excuse their actions” but it’s not like they’re a real idol/celebrity. When people like bad characters it’s because they’re well written. They’re good at being bad and that’s what makes them interesting." -Camren Creationz
You shouldn't blame sosiopath's for being without empathy. We can go by logic so we can care for others even tho we don't really care about them
You sound like you want less nuance, not more. You only want your experience to be represented and not those of the entire disorder you reductively brand as all "abusers." I love and am loved by a psychopath and quite frankly it's wonderful. Do you think that experience deserves representation or only yours?
Honestly, this is my least favorite trope because I don’t like that hyper intelligence, genius, and introversion is so often associated with a lack of empathy and evil or even just grumpy jerkiness in media. I want more soft-hearted savants like Newt from Fantastic Beasts. Many of the smartest people I know are also very kind. People forget that Albert Einstein was an activist and cared a lot about humanity. Empathy is considered a sign of high intelligence, especially in animals like elephants.
Exactly same.
Same
As someone on the autism spectrum who struggles with social intelligence and empathy, I like these representations because they show that there is a place for people like me in a society that usually demonized and ostracizes us.
@@aksprkl6594 x2
That is very true, another example are snakes, they're viewed as unintelligent is because they're unable to comprehend the basic concept of love simply because they lack the part of the brain that allows us to feel love. And idk why people wants to have snakes as pets, like why would you give your love to something that can't feel love and only see you as food?
Please do a video about Mabel Pines, and why she is so loved and also how you could say she was the turning point for young female characters in animation. By being hyper hyper-feminine and interested in traditionally girly things (like glitter; boy bands; crafts and sewing/knitting), but she is also the comedic character on the show which has been very rare for female characters, as usually the comedic character is a male. Also she is very chaotic, which has been rare for girly characters in animation, comparing Mabel Pines to Isabella from Phineas and Ferb or Dot from The Animaniacs.
Yes, please! 😍 I adore how Mabel serves as the comic relief character, which is typically used for a male character, and how she's a brave, lovable character who happens to be Girly, and wears her heart on her sleeve! ♥️
This would be super cool although I wonder how they're going to tackle her at the ending and that whole controversy.
Isabella actually becomes more chaotic and dangerous as the series goes on and it’s hilarious. In the new movie she actually THREATENS Doofensmirtz for bickering with her.
The smart guy and his idiotic twin sister, in my opinion not a great character.
@@BioshadowXI'm,sorry to sound like someone living under a rock her but, what controversy? Asking because I don't understand how on earth there'd be controversy behind such a wholesome character.
Rick actually makes me feel better about my own mortality. His constant reminder that nothing and no one matters is comforting to an overthinker. I can do what I want, I can take that risk or not, and I'm biologically engineered to feel the way I do about topics like love, empathy, death, and fear. His rare displays of care for his family (for me anyway) despite the fact that nothing matters epitomize being human.
To clarify, I don't idolize Rick. I watch Rick and Morty when I'm stressed beyond 'taking a long walk to clear my head' because it's funny and whether I make the right decision or not in this moment, the outcome itself, in the scheme, doesn't matter.
“In the real world, most sociopaths would make us run for our lives.” Except when they’re writing our paychecks, like in the case of Mark Zuckerberg or Jeff Bezos. I’ve heard that sociopaths end up in one of two places, jail or the top of the corporate ladder, a climb made easier because they don’t feel remorse over stepping on others at work.
Psychopaths are overrepresented in corporate hierarchy, but not as much as people think.
Studies that I have found that actually assessed high-level executives and CEOs have come up with 4-11% of them are Psychopaths.
Granted that is higher than general population which is roughly 1%.
But it is much lower than the prison population which is 15-25% of prison inmates.
@Akshay 786
Sometimes.
Usually not.
As it turns out; Psychopaths rarely benefit corporations in the long-term and often jump from company to company.
Mark does not have ASPD, he's just socially awkward.
You don't know what sociopathy is if you don't consider steve jobs or travis kalanick as sociopath. Zuckerberg is just socially awkward and bezos is not a psychopath /sociopath.
@@libertatemadvocatus1797 because only INTELLIGENT sociopaths would be in a position like that. its hilarious how much people underestimate the difficulty of being successful at anything. you need to work for at least in my opinion, 7 hours day. good luck working 7 hours a day when your brain cant analyze complex information. the dumb sociopaths end in prison, the smart AND hard working sociopaths distract themselves with money so they dont have to kill people.
Holmes and House are both based on the Sherlock Holmes stories and I don't read his character in the original stories as unfeeling or detached. He was downright sentimental, in many cases, and wasn't particularly "curmudgeonly" (bit stubborn, but also mostly nice to people???) The modern obsession with making him some BRAIN ROBOT WHO CARES NOT FOR YOUR FEELINGS is honestly exhausting and says more about the adaptors than the character as written.
I saw an article that Sherlock (at least the bbc one) might have schizoid personality disorder, which explains a lot of his behaviours, as well as the fact that he does have a lot of emotion and they're strong ones at that - but he lacks the ability to outwardly express them in socially acceptable ways. Read more on that, you may be surprised.
"But how can anyone use logic when they also have emotions?!" -Modern writers, probably.
Actually, the "Sherlock is a unfeeling" isn't a new take in the slightest. G.K Chesterton created his own sleuth in 1910 to develop a character who was the opposite to Holmes's deduction.
Father Brown was written to utilise observations of human characteristics (early Criminal Psychology).
Tons of writers have questioned if the forensic science in Holmes and to a certain extent House play too rigidly to fulfilling the audience's desire to play sleuth and play along that they stop being real characters in the process.
I'd disagree with House. He is white coat syndrome become manifest. Holmes less easy to tell. Conan Doyle may never have intended this depth of connection to Holmes in the first place. None of his story is told from his perspective so we'll never know. He is empathetic to the plight of his clients, shown multiple times in the stories but genuinely is more interested in what the story beholds like the reader. He's a cipher.
Christie is another mystery author that preferred to go the psychology route in her books. This is special notable with Miss Marple.
@@Firegen1 Agatha Christie's detectives were all deliberate Anti-Holmes types too, from the beginning of her career in the 1920's.
My own read on Sherlock Holmes (if I must diagnose him), particularly on any modern versions of the character, is that he's on the Autistic Spectrum, with the same extremely high intelligence he's always been given. I work in mental health, have worked often with patients on the spectrum, and I'm on the spectrum as well. I know a lot of neurodivergent people socially. Quite a number of us have decided that the version of the character on "Sherlock" is absolutely Autistic, and uses his lack of understanding and caring for social norms as both a weapon and a shield against the world. It makes so much sense!
Funny how so many people in the comments happen to have a degree in Psychology and are capable of diagnosing people in their lives as sociopaths and psychopaths.
There might be abusive, selfish, narcissistic and horrible people in your lives, which is actually quite common, but straight up diagnosing them with any such extreme pathology is incorrect. But that doesn't take away the abuse you may or may not have suffered at the hands of the people in your lives - it makes sense that you would want to put the people who hurt you in extreme ways into such a category to validate your feelings, but ultimately it's incorrect.
Thank you. So sick of seeing people labelling others.
I could not agree more ! Teachers said to me it was the " psycology student syndrom" where at one point everyone seems to have personality disorders. Where actual humans are imperfect by nature and we all have some traits. The point it becomes a disorder needs an actual diagnostic. But people interested in psycology loves to label , and put people in boxes wayyy to fast. And even inside a label, there is so much variability that the boxes are never really here. These are spectrum.
Yess! They’re absolutely ridiculous 🙄
Ppl r too quick to call anyone whos abusive a narcissist/sociopath and it does so much harm to the ppl with that disorder who r already seen as monsters, i just wanna vibe man
It's nice for people to objectify the abuser because acknowledging the human aspect of it would require people to understand that you were just an easy target for someone to vent their destructive insecurities against you.
It's not easy to accept you were objectified as a target, so we objectify them in response.
I like these characters but people that idolize and romanticize them are so cringy 🤦♀️
Meh it’s fiction, the taboo is exciting to people
I think most people - once they have grown up - can tell the difference between fantasy and reality. Or at least i hope they can 😬.
@@Kevin-om3zj It's still problematic when someone says they want a Joe.
@@flowerdaisystar9593 Concerning yeah, Joe kinda fucked with my morals because I liked him a lot in season 1 but at least I hope people are just aware this isn’t attractive irl
Agreed, it's so fricking wrong. All these characters are disgusting people.
You've got to admit that Penn Badgley plays Joe so perfectly, and with such charm, that it's easy to forget that he's the villain, and that we're not supposed to be rooting for him. Even PENN feels as though the fans romanticise Joe's actions too much. ☠️
I remember one scene I was against him, another I was rooting for him. So conflicting. I like that he’s so protective of children and that’s about it.
I think this happens because of priming. Culturally people have been primed to sympathize and even romanticize characters like them through other films that show his behavior as romantic. There is very little difference between his behavior and say another character like Edward Cullen (twilight). We have been told already by romantic movies and books that a traumatic past is excuse for toxic behavior, if you’re handsome stalking is okay, and emotionally manipulating someone is an acceptable way to show you care. So by the time we get to a show like You, these behaviors are not startling nor glaring wrong. They look a lot like a romance movie.
@@chinalynn373 how dare you say something so true and horrifying
I think someone tweeted "Please kidnap me Penn Badgely" and he said "no thanks". It was quite funny to me.
I just root to see him fail.
It seems to me that this trope is so popular because it seems so freeing. Everyone, even the nicest people, sometimes have dark thoughts, and fictional sociopaths are making them come true. Like when someone you have to deal with seems incredibly stupid, you won't tell them because that would be rude and you are not a bad person. But watching someone fictional actually do it feels liberating.
Walter White is my absolute favorite from this point of view. Imagine being in his situation on the beginning - how incredibly hard it has to be to stay a good person and carry on. It seems that breaking bad and just showing a middle finger to the world is something people in that situation would love to do, but (thankfully) their moral code won't let them.
Sherlock Holmes, at least the original, is not a sociopath or even close to that. He definitely had issues with getting along with people and was probably on the autism spectrum, but putting him here as a sociopath seems kind of wrong. I also want to mention in the books he had a drug addiction which may have influenced the way he behaved, and also was living in the Victorian times, so being emotionally open wasn't exactly normal for men at that time.
I don't remember anything about a drug addiction in the books... then again maybe it was a name I don't know about? What's the name of the drug he used?
@@shreyaghosh1792 Holmes abused both morphine and cocaine in the books. It's touched on in a few adventures and as far as i know, only one television adaptation
Yeah, like many others on the autism spectrum he gets forcably misdiagnosed with psychopathy and weaponises that perception of him, even if his own claimed diagnosis is just as wrong
I don't think of Don draper as a sociopath, to me he has his self broken and is really narcissistic but he cares deeply about people around him (even if most of the time not people he is sleeping with) and seems to be in pain or distress most of the time. That he is not capable of showing up for people or give more doesn't mean necessarily he is a sociopath, you don't need to be one to be an awful person, to me his priorities are surviving his own feelings and get approval because that is how he cope with the world (and can get away with it) but that doesn't mean he doesn't care about others. He was always a really sad and infuriating character to me but not a sociopath. Just my opinion.
Yeah he’s just a narcissist who has had to become desensitized to the horrors of the world. Never thought he was a sociopath
a sl - *Facts !!!!!!* 💯💯💯💯💯💯
That is the thing about having some traces from a full disorder. Because in my vision House an Sherlock would also not fit on a full sociopath/psycopath profile, but they do have some traces.
They’re more like symptoms.
To be fair... they didn’t actually say he’s a sociopath. They just said he’s an anti-hero like Walter White and Tony Soprano and that he shows traits of having an anti-social personality and Narcissistic Personality Disorder (all very true). He might care about the people around him but not enough to treat them better or to care about their feelings. It also takes a very detached mind to be able to steal the identity of a man he inadvertently killed and continue with the identity theft for years with no true remorse.
I like how in our society we call every person with different world view a socio/psychopath or a narcissist.
Thats sad
The biggest problem with these characters is that we're rarely ever shown anything past the charismatic front. Sociopaths aren't genuinely charismatic or interesting. They're just good at faking it. Underneath the mask; they're all dead eyed lizard people. Patrick Bateman is the only character in this video who actually seems like a sociopath. Even Dexter is given way too much empathy and charm for realism. A better show would have had him constantly 'slipping' . Seeing how much evil shit he could get past the radar without actually murdering anyone.
That sounds interesting.
I'm not too sure myself but aren't you referring to psychopaths not sociopaths? Because even if they're faking it to some extent they can feel emotion and empathy at varied levels depending on the person. Its of course way less often than the normal person but they aren't completely without it. Thats what differentiates them. Pyschpaths feel absolutely nothing and to put it in your words "dead eyed lizard people." I read about it before but this is just what i remember.
How about rick?
@@mariyamabraham2710 Rick is just a cynical old man but a little bit too ambitious at that.
that's wrong, psychopaths aren't interesting, sociopaths are just people with no feeling of guilt and ability to turn off empathy, sociopaths can be very complex.
i wouldn't even say sociopaths are immoral, just that they're morals are different.
as an example im not a full sociopath just not very emotional, you have a 3 year old child and a 20 year old man, who do you kill.
most people would say the 20 year old but no, he has already lived long and formed emotional connections, a lot of people would miss him, government has spent thousands of dollars on his education, vaccinations etc...
his parents are old and cant replace him, but the parents of the 3 year old are likely young and can simply make another one after they get over the death.
neither choice is immoral one is emotional and one is logical.
Someone else found curious how all this femme fatal are represented as blonde
I guess it's the "blonde women sexy, sex scary" stuff in action.
No. It based on the concept of the Ice Cold Blonde typified by Annette Kuhn. The sense of a traditional beauty aesthetics of blonde in history juxtasposed with a fiery interior.
The take did a great video on the femmefatal
It's because of the concept that white, blond, pale people are cold and don't show their emotions, as dark, black haired people are warmer and passionate and emotional. Which is completely true even geographically, southerners are much more warmer and enjoying life than Northerners. And it makes sense for a portrait of a sociopath to be in the colder palette.
@@mariapetrova1294 Brilliant analysis! I think this is the best explanation
Honestly the thought of not feeling and being able to do what you want without second thought is invigorating and I think some people even envy them for it, such as myself. I gained such a fascination with their lack of emotion that I developed the ability to switch my emotions off. It may also be so easy for me to do so because my mom is a sociopath who always told me to think instead of feel when I showed any negative emotions. Who knows.
none of that sounds like sociopathy, what are y'all diagnosed with? ASPD? cause it sounds more like dissociation is in the mix.
I love the shot of Anton calmly walking away from the exploding car, because it highlights a central aspect of psychopathy, according to psychologists, which is their lack of response to fearful stimuli.
I really enjoyed the Gone girl movie; thats what really got me into psychological thrillers
Ditto, I love how the story delves into the mind of the sociopathic Amy, and even when she ruins Nick's life, you can't help but ultimately pity her at times.
What are other psychological thriller movies that you would advise to watch?
I'm a guy, but I can relate to Amy a lot. I'll probably do the same revenge (destroying public image), minus the murder.
@@dorindavaes yes please!
@@dorindavaes Stanford Prison Experiement, Black Swan, Girl on the Train
“Sociopath” has deficiencies in three areas: 1, moral reasoning. 2, empathy. 3, impulse control. The spectrum varies for each sociopath. When Classifying as a “psychopath”, it is usually in reference to someone who is severely without any moral reasoning, has zero empathy, and very poor impulse control. All psychopaths are sociopaths but not all sociopaths qualify as severely Deficient in all three: moral reasoning, empathy, and impulse control.
It’s a red flag when his profile picture is The Joker, like girl you better run!
same if his profile pic is of an anime girl.
@@GotoMaki4Micah fax
@@GotoMaki4Micah I made that mistake before not fun
Or if here profile picture is Harley Quinn.
@@GotoMaki4Micah I have never been so offended by something I 100% agree with
Heath is still my favorite Joker because his acting career was teen movies and then he just acted his ass off in the movie.
Brokeback Mountain wasn't exactly a teen movie lol
He will always be The Joker to me. He did a phenomenal job in that role.
In my view he is the one that makes the Dark Knight. I can't help but agree with his view of the world when him watching the movie.
Knights tale was awesome
We enjoy watching sociopath characters because we are hoping for to see a semblance of humanity in them to give us a reason to redeem them in our eyes. People love to have a reason to cheer on the underdog or the one who is different but before we can do so we need to be able to relate to them in some way. That’s what we’re looking for in these characters- something familiar we can relate to so that we can comfort ourselves that even the mentally unsound are able to care and be ‘good’.
Ok but Vinalle had a sense of humor and nbc Hannibal was just so cool.
I loved both the shows so much, villanelle was an amazing character and the chemistry between hannibal and Will was amazing
Any other shows like those? I came here looking for recommendations 🥲
The funny thing about this trope though, is that they never really seem to delve into low-functioning sociopaths which are much more common.
They do in anime. They're even given a quirky little nickname. "Yandere". Though they're mostly just focussed on the ones that obsess over 1 person.
@@MayHugger um pretty sure if they don't get caught easily it isn't a low functioning sociopath cause low functioning sociopath get caught alot more easier
@@ryanthereaper5032 They only don’t get caught in anime cause they’re the perceived “perfect waifu best girl” and them getting caught for all the stupid shit they did would ruin that look. Yanderes irl wouldn’t last long without getting caught.
Well, that doesn't sell 🤷🏻♀️it's like, no commercial best-selling movie would be portraying the ugly and devastating struggle of someone with low-functioning autism, or their family members; the vast audience are only interested in the lone, misunderstood genius. 🤷🏻♀️
They do, just not in Hollywood, there's a lot of violent criminals in European/British films that are textbook Antisocial
I think the main reason why we find these people so attractive is because we view a better version of ourselves in them. Besides the obvious bad they've done, sociopaths take on life head first and that's something we all want. They're literally what we wish we were.
until you realise they don’t feel anything so their lives aren’t as great as ours because they lack human emotions like happiness, excitement, love or sadness
@@flower_topia not true at all. i doubt many humans have lived without feeling anything at all, maybe they've struggled to or chosen not to convey it or you couldn't understand why they felt how they did, but everybody feels emotions. if they felt no emotions they would not bother doing all the manipulation that everybody says they constantly do- they would gain nothing from it because they wouldn't be excited or happy about the consequences of their actions! they're not robots.
@@flower_topiaSociopaths have emotions, psychopaths don't
They aren’t so likable when you have to live with one.
@Me We Explain all the sociopaths put into positions by all the people that have grown up due to them being likeable.
Yes. We are.
Please explain how you know you live with one. Since no one is supposed to diagnose themselves, and a lot of psychologists can't identify them.
@@MayHugger I am a diagnosised sociopath. Diagnosed when I was 16.
@@darth_kal-el I meant OP, but I'm pretty sure you can't be diagnosed until you're 18.
The only thing I hate that is shown in these movies is that sociopaths are always violent when that's not the case irl..so are, yes, but so are those who don't lack empathy.
It would be remiss to not mention the fact that, sometimes, autistic people (and thus characters) are mistaken for being sociopathic, uncaring or unfeeling. Which is, in fiction and reality, patently untrue: we feel quite a bit, but the conveyance gets somewhat muddled, sometimes.
It's also untrue that all autistic folks "read" as autistic (whatever that means) but I've had enough people say they doubt me that I know it's apparently something.
YES! I was surprised to see Sherlock in this video, because that portrayal of the character has so often been identified as having characteristics of ASD. Enough so that, snarky Aspie that I am, every time he used that "high functioning sociopath" line, I'd snap at the TV, "Liar! You're high functioning, high IQ Autistic! We know our kind!"
Andrew Scott's Moriarty, however, absolutely *was* a gloriously lovable sociopath! He made a delightful villain.
@@neuralmute Precís! I was diagnosed with ASD as an adult, I suspect largely because I had the unfortunate luck of being trained in classical speech & drama for 15 years, and thus became very adept at showing whatever surface personality any given situation warranted! I was also surprised to see House in there as, for one, he's just a Sherlock template, but also because he very clearly does have empathy in the show and isn't at all sociopathic--he's a jerk, and also in a lot of pain.
(I LOVE that "Liar! We know our own kind!" line, btw. Had a good giggle over that. I have lately been quite enamored with the idea/metaphor of aspies being fey changelings, and indeed, we do know our own kind and can spot them a mile away--to the extent that my friends with ASD were surprised when I told them my diagnosis.... not because they didn't think I was also on the spectrum, but because they had always assumed I was and just hadn't directly mentioned it or brought it up explicitly for whatever reason!)
@@sophroniel Aha! A fellow Stage Aspie! I did some serious training in music (flute and piano are my main instruments, and I also play piccolo, some sax, a bit of mandolin, and terrible violin noises), and a whole lot of years of ballet, which is one of my big obsessions. With both, you learn to perform, and show a smooth, professional surface. And dancers have to learn how to act, too, without even talking. I've done a fair bit of amateur theatre, and it's a hell of a lot of fun! But people who know me well understood my diagnosis right away - they've heard me say a thousand times, "I only get stage fright when I'm not onstage!"
I love your changeling metaphor - it certainly feels like that at times! I tried to convince my little nieces that I was an alien once; that's my favourite metaphor. Too bad the kids didn't believe me!
I agree on House as well. He's complicated - he's an addict, he's got chronic pain, he's a snarky bastard, AND he's based on Sherlock Holmes, (only as a doctor), who was never a terribly friendly or sociable character. And he does show compassion from time to time, it just takes a lot for him to crack his shell, much like Sherlock.
I was surprised to see Rick from Rick and Morty (I haven’t full watched the video yet so I don’t know if they talk about him other than the clips at the beginning) is confirmed to be autistic by a joke in the show. It’s misleading to have him even included in the video.
There are a lot of characters shown in this video who aren’t really sociopaths/psychopaths. Some are just destructive or simply doesn’t care about other peoples feelings.
And that’s the definition of a sociopath
@@janayholmes6072 it’s not though. You can be a bad person who knows what you’re doing is wrong and feel all the emotions associated with knowing that fact AND STILL do them. Maybe you’re self-sabotaging. Maybe you’re spiteful. There are literally an infinite amount of different reasons for someone to do bad things. To be a sociopath/psychopath the bad things you do have to have little to no actual emotional impact on you. There’s a difference between ignoring your moral compass (or maybe just having a less conventional one) and not having a built-in moral compass at all.
@@emotrash Except they explained that Sociopaths, unlike psychopaths, are able to differentiate between what's morally right and wrong. You are still describing someone who is sociopathic.
@@CollinMcLean They're not making a moral distinction though. It's more like they understand that society would punish them for certain behaviors if they got caught.
@@CollinMcLean Sociopaths and psychopaths aren’t even real defined diagnosis. It’s basically the scary pop-culture version of anti-social personality disorder. Even if we go by their definition, and a sociopath can differentiate between what’s right and wrong, the important thing is that it still doesn’t have an emotional impact. You can’t just say anyone who does something bad even if they know it’s bad is a sociopath. That would be literally everyone.
I dated a girl who I let gaslight me into believing that I am a narcissistic sociopath. I mean, I really hated myself and then I became suicidal and she just said I was manipulating her… Which made me feel so bad that I threw my phone into Lake Michigan and drove until I ran out of gas. That was 3 years ago and I’m still avoiding people because I don’t want people to misinterpret my actions.
Many of the characters displayed here, especially the "genius" ones, are most times considered to be autistic-coded (sometimes even confirmed to be so, like in the case of Rick). I think it would make an interesting video to talk about how the media portrays and often times simplifies to a cliche people on the spectrum, and also sometimes downright villanizes them and turns them into empathy deprived, as shown here, "sociopaths".
There's this common habit of treating characters who are autistic as sociopathic because they don't get social cues, which means they must not be able to feel emotions. Except a good portion of autistic people are HYPER empaths and over empathize with people and react more strongly to their emotional states and social miscues, which often causes heightened distress.
I' m autistic, and I don't think it's all about neurotypicals misreading autistic spectrum people as lacking empathy - I think with some of the characters portrayed - Rick and Sherlock specifically, that they are both on the autistic spectrum and the spectrum of severity for antisocial personality disorder, and that the latter has developed partly as a way to cope with the negativity recieved for the former. I think it's very obvious that Sherlock calling himself a sociopath is him being deliberately edgy and pushing people away, and that he has embraced the perception of himself as 'cold and calculating', decided to live up to it - and that's why his friendship with Watson is so complicated for him, it disproves this 'shield' of being cold and emotionless. Rick is a depressed nihilist who has been rejected on a lot of different levels, clearly is unhappy, and takes it out on the world - and part of that rejection is because he has been continually misunderstood, which he, for the ego-boost to invert the shame, chalks up to his great genius going over people's heads - but it's obvious from how miserable he is that lying to himself and others doesn't really work. There are certainly other characters that are more obviously a conflation of autism (especially what was formerly termed Asperger's) and psychopathy, this idea of someone just 'born unable to connect to others', but I don't think Rick and Sherlock are meant to be those.
Besides Rick what other characters in the video were written to portray people on the spectrum? Because it wouldn’t make sense to say that characters that are written to be sociopaths or psychopaths are being used to villainize people with autism if no one intended to write characters with autism. And I’ve never seen Rick as evil.
@@MrBazBake Autistic people do have empathy, it's just difficult for them to express it in conventional ways. And autistic people are far more likely to be victimized by sociopaths than to be one, since they have trouble detecting malicious intent.
I’m literally in love with Villanelle. She’s one of the most hilarious characters.
Also, I can sum up why I love sociopaths. Villain sexy.
Indeed, Jodie Comer plays her to perfection, that it's near impossible to imagine anyone else in the role! ❤️
@@trinaq That’s so true! Jodie Comer is incredible as Villanelle, I couldn’t imagine anyone else playing her.
I agree!
exactlyyy if villian so bad why villian so sexy???
Tripp Dusk At p I’mb
a pregnant friend of mine killed themselves during her 5th year dating a sociopath. I wanna be fair and say it wasn't completely due to him but I know they played a fair part.
Honestly I'm so tired of all these mean geniuses. I seriously want more nice smart people in stories.
Mean geniuses tell the world that you can't be nice and smart. Irl, it's nice people who are smart and mean people who are dumb
The more one learns the less happy they become. To be smart an kind is to find peace within an without something our society put less than zero value on. In a capitalist society the most successful people have the least emotion. Bob Marley said it best wealth is the love one has for other's and the love other's have for them. Some of the richest people I kown are the poorest people I kown.
@@RandomSkyeRoses wrong
@@RandomSkyeRoses not technically, since studies have shown that the higher someone's IQ, the more unhappy they are which usually leads to them being more rude or mean.
In order to be truly smart, you need to have a true understanding of people and the world, a truly realistic understanding of things, which is very rare for people with empathy.
A psychiatrist once explained the difference to me as "If someone gets hurt, a sociopath doesn't care, a psychopath gets pleasure out of it."
only if the hurt was a direct result of their action giving them feeling of power and control .They are not sadists to actively look to hurt people.
I'm not trying to justify them or anything but I think sociopaths do care when someone gets hurt, or at least empathize. After all they're made not born into it and can relate to one's suffering. Not in a "I'm worried about the pain your feeling and hope you get better" but more "yeah that hurts I hope that doesn't happen to me". But yeah I agree with @horace unless they're not the one's causing it they probably get off at the sense of power they get over hurting someone. Anyways just my 2 scents
Other way around.
@@raspberrycrowns9494 Psychopaths are the ones born. You also have the 2 mixed up.
@@MayHugger "they're [sociopaths] made *not* born"
Sociopaths are attractive, particularly to women, for a very simple evolutionary reason. A dangerous man can protect his mate and offspring. It also taps into the ego. "Well he is dangerous to everyone else but not to me because I have the key to his cold heart." Unfortunately what many people find out is that a snake is a snake no matter how you pet it.
Facts its why you'll see women with thugs thinking oh I'm gonna be protected when it's the complete opposite and you just put yourself in the most dangerous situation you could of imagined cause you're not anyone else to them you're just someone they think they need for now but once that changes and they feel you're a threat trust me they'll go from loving to hostile in a short amount of time
Villanelle is a very fascinating character who is portrayed by a brilliant actress. Jodie Comer is amazing. Much love to Sandra Oh and Finoa Shaw as well
The thing about some of the characters such as Sherlock and maybe to an extent House, they aren’t sociopaths. Hell Sherlock doesn’t even seem to have anti-personality disorder.
I think Sherlock (in the BBC context) if anything seems to have some pretty intense trauma. Book Holmes has traits of possible bipolar disorder or depression. Of course you can't really diagnose a fictional character, but I can't think of any Sherlock Holmes adaptation I've seen who I'd say has any kind of personality disorder (not that it'd be inherently a bad thing anyway)
He has autistic traits and might be autistic.
@@brynlara6374 Yeah that. I agree
@@caitlin329 exactly. Sherlock closed himself by using the term high functioning sociopath is because he avoid emotions and emotions lead him to his buried trauma. He doesn't have any disorder, he just needs therapy for his ptsd.
I think Sherlock is on the autism spectrum and House is just a narcissistic(but super likeable) prick.
What about the opposite sentiment for the opposet character: Why do we Hate the Compassionate overly Benevolent characters, like in children's television?
Cause they're generally very boring with no real personality or flaws.
Sociopathy is not even a psychiatric diagnosis in most of the world... but I want to just say, even if it were, there are many a great article on the internet of why Sherlock would not be diagnosed as one, sorry. Some written by real life psychiatrists and psychologists. One said he'd most likely get a schizoid PD diagnosis if he were forced onto a psychiatrist's couch. If you want a defined pathology.
Oh and please, don't even get me started on Patrick Jane. Not all his actions are okay, obviously. But he is honestly a hero for the people around him (and not for catching criminals) - in how he has this childlike wonder and curiosity that he gives those around him instead of being serious and depressed, and cynical all the time as most people would with a trauma such as his. That one single thing alone is heroic.
finally! someone with critical thinking! I expected The Take to take the subject more seriously than just running around labeling everyone a sociopaths while there are so many other personality disorders.
@@alxdliz Yeah, based on their previous content... I was expecting more.
Everyone who watches sherlock knows that high functioning sociopath is just how sherlock think of himself, i don't even think he believes that. It most likely he said that so expectations for himself as a person are low and he can get away doing things in a pursuit of doing his job as a consulting detective. Also it's clear he chooses to avoid emotions.
I agree that he wouldn't be a sociopath, but as someone who has been diagnosed with schizoid personality traits I seriously doubt that he would have schizoid PD either. Schizoid PD is described as the PD with the lowest quality of life and while people with the disorder could be pretty successful working on their own (just like Sherlock), I believe he doesn't show anything near close enough to the emotional turmoil related to contact with other people that comes with a schizoid PD. I would argue that he shows fewer schizoid traits than me and I don't have the fully developed PD.
I don't think you know what a sociopath is if you think Sherlock is one.
Well he is one. Although more high functioning. But he is one
well you can not say for sure because he can have traits and be one or he can have traits and not be one. Only through diagnosis by interacting with him it can be said with certainty.
@@Lena-lw6kl and respected professionals can disagree
@@Lena-lw6kl ummm excuse me have you watched the show at all?? He shows clear signs of sociopathy many times in the show. I doubt if Sherlock is the type of guy to go to a doctor or therapist to tell him what’s wrong with him . Even the man referred to himself as a sociopath multiple times. How does that not qualify as “interacting with him”?
@@kathryngeeslin9509 of course
For several years, I've come to this channel and been amazed at the insight and perspective to be found here. I am performing "sad" today, because you put Psychopath and Sociopath in the same arena; turning years of thoughtfulness from your channel, inside-out. There is so much nuance in both states, that they could each have their own video...too bad you chose to lump them together even MORE in the public consciousness.
This reminds me of Kai from vampire diaries. He was an absolute psycho yet I still loved his character.
Oh, he was fun to watch.. years later, rewatching the series... but the first time I was so invested in the main characters, I was frozen in fear every time Kai would appear anywhere because he was extremely unpredictable and always caused chaos upon chaos.
I laughed so hard when he was describing his emotions for the first time
@@christasolo4932 same! I didn't really like him the first time I watched it (same with Moriarty in Sherlock to some extent), but rewatching I loved the characters so much.
The way I freaked out when I saw Mads Mikkelsen in the thumbnail! Also Rihanna loved that show which is why she included him in her "Bitch Better Have My Money" video
I don't remember where I heard it before, but that tiny clip in there reminded me... "Intelligence is knowing that Frankenstein isn't the monster of the story. Wisdom is knowing that Frankenstein IS the actual monster in the story." - of course, reading the book helps with that also.
I don’t get it
@@radiyasidialiyu9281 me either
Intelligence is knowing tomatoes are a fruit, wisdom is knowing you don't put them in a fruit salad
My favorite likable sociopath will forever be Azula from Avatar: The Last Airbender. She’s terrifying and powerful and often lacks empathy, but you can’t help but like her because of her bending prowess, her memorable lines, and her ability to keep the main characters of the show on their feet. She plays a formidable foe for Team Avatar that every time she showed up, you knew the fights in the episode would be epic and captivating. And sometimes she did show some empathy for Zuko and Ty Lee, but it was rare and only made her more intriguing. Azula has so many layers to her character that even though she’s ruthless and bloodthirsty, you still want to see more of her in the show. And when she has that mental breakdown near the end of the show, despite her horrible actions, you can’t help but feel a bit of sympathy for her. Even though she’s not a good person, you can’t help but like her. You honestly can’t help it. Characters like Azula give so much depth to a story because even though their actions might be morally reprehensible, their personality traits make them likeable and even sometimes admirable.
Isn’t she just straight-up psycho?
Azula is a remarkable villain, and you can tell that being the firelord's favorite child affected her behavior, since she was praised for doing terrible things. And if she didn't do that, she would be "treated like Zuko" aka abused and neglected.
But you can still feel bad for her when she has a mental breakdown at the end of the show, when she realizes she has no one to trust and believes her mother didn't love her.
Her entire mindset was wrong, and she didn't have someone to guide her and help her question herself, like Zuko had. It's kind of a tragedy, really.
Hannibal ❤ especially Mads Mikkelsen's version is amazing. We know he's a bad man but he's so charming and charasmatic that we still love him.
@Love Life so true and his relationship with Will Graham is the most interesting relationship i've ever seen on screen
especially since his coping methods make so much sense (not in a good or reasonable way but... yknow) he hurts people before they can hurt him, and cannibalism is a very literal way of overcoming what scares you. his relationship w/ will provides a healthier (ehhh) method of coping. im not excusing eating ppl i just really like this character lol he is still a bad personof course
I kind of wish some other animated socios were mentioned in this analysis. Such as Light form Death Note, Yoshikage from JJBA and Azula from ATLA. I feel animation can and do a lot with this trope.
They usually do not use anime on their analysis videos, except the studio ghibli ones.
Light is an interesting example
yes he's a sociopath@@facuuu2809
Diagnosed (ASPD) sociopath here now this is a pretty edgy teenager thing to do starting like that on a comment but it kinda disables us who actually are to speak up on our disorder and the stigma that comes with it, yeah we don't feel most normal things neurotypicals feel and yeah we can't feel empathy, at least affective one but we can feel cognitive empathy, my point is we can be good people its just a bit more of a challenge than most of you, we are not bad People but it certainly is easier for us to be that way Anyway im gonna stop rambling on my point is, we are not bad people and most of the stigma around us is dramatised
Totally!
@@DreamItCraftIt if this is you trying to be sarcastic you aint doing a good job at it
@@brideofallunquietthings888 i believe i differentiated the kinds of empathy I can't feel and the kind i can, i feel no remorse and no "affective" empathy, but im perfectly capable of cognitive therapy which takes effort, i was diagnosed in a juvenile facility after i stabbed someone in the head and in their arm for "disrespecting" me, i know i am a sociopath but that can't and will never define me, after cognitive therapy i was able to feel empathy for the other person and i understood i was wrong in doing so, and i was literally talking about how we shouldn't be defined as evil people because of the stigma and dramatisation of the disorder
@@brideofallunquietthings888 i mean cognitive therapy can go a long way, but affective empathy is not possible, at least not currently there still isn't a cure or a therapy to fix that, so i honestly don't know
I agree with you.
Tropes about mental illnesses are the worst way to understand them.
The ASPD community must be one of the most marginalised. Tipically because of ppl who use the terms sociopath/psychopath as synonyms to criminal.
"Unlikable savant, sociopaths-" that's a perfect description of this trope but also highlights the key problem with it. Savants are almost exclusively people with autism. Most autistic people on screen have savants, most autistic people in real life do not. Autism is not the same as sociopathy, psychopathy or borderline personality disorder. It literally comes down to not having social skills. Maybe you people could do an analysis on savant trope and other autistic stereotypes.
Damn that line is so so deep. "She should hate me, but as long as she's safe... is this what father hood feels like?"
I wish Azula was included. She's such a great complex character right up to her full mental break.
"The line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either -- but right through every human heart -- and through all human hearts. This line shifts. Inside us, it oscillates with the years. And even within hearts overwhelmed by evil, one small bridgehead of good is retained."
-Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
This video shows a deep lack of misunderstanding of what a sociopath is and is conflating them with a psychopath. Which are completely different. And I have the authority to speak in this as a diagnosed sociopath.
It's interesting to me how often sociopathy and ASD are coded in the same people in fiction and literature. This might be do to society's difficulty understand the perspectives _of_ those on the Autism Spectrum.
Please make a video about the “trainwreck” trope, the stereotypes of drug and alcohol adicts in movies and tv shows.
I remember when You first premiered and I actually cried in the season 1 finale because it disgusted and disturbed me so much and so many of my girl friends were fawning over him on social media and I was like, He is a terrifying and sick individual?? And they were like, BUT HE'S HOT! I find the same confusion coming up for me when I hear women say they find Ted Bundy or Richard Ramirez handsome. But then idk, I have always felt attraction towards a person based more on their behavior and character and less about looks, but it still scares me when people are almost wanting to look past a character's horrifying psyche because they happen to be decently good looking or have abs.
Handsome is as handsome does.
Well, Joe is not a real person but a character, so that helps.
I'm really surprised to read your comment. I havent seen anyone who even genuinely FAWNS over him. The ones that do like him is mostly because of he's an interesting character and because he's funny. But even they hate his actions. Tbh if you ever wanna reassure yourself, go to ANY video about You featuring him. Most of the top comments are people hating him, obviously for good reason. Even the actor who plays him doesn't like the character.
I feel sorry for none of them. I love to watch them rise and I SAVOR THE FULL FLAVOR OF THEIR FALL.
Even Shawn Spencer? I mean he and Sherlock Holmes are helping the good guys.
@@filmfangirls9163 hmmmmmm maybe those 2
@@deej5608 to be honest Im surprised Shawn is on there 😂 he doesnt fit the bill. Hes smart and cocky but he cares very much for people and expresses it.
and that proves ones again, that the only important thing to creating a likable charakter is the perspective in which it is shown
Just look at Last of Us part 2.
Certain characters were completely justified in their reaction and actions but because we weren’t shown from their perspective until after a dark deed -people hated them and completely refused to understand them.
Even though the person the person they liked did something just as terrible and selfish.
@@jacobodom8401 Yes! I was thinking of the same thing when I read the OP’s comment. Maybe I was able to look at things more objectively since I only watched the gameplay of 2, and some of gameplay from the first one. Did Joel deserve what happened to him? Are some crimes so irredeemable that a person can never be forgiven? I’m asking rhetorically, but also feel free to add your perspective.
In reference to that article about Rick, saying that these characters give us the fantasy of never having to change, one thing I really liked about Hannibal (TV show) is that although it leans HEAVILY on the romanization of the psychopath, his entire character's arc throughout the show is actually based on change, and the need for change. He wants this human connection which would require him to change and abandon his entire, carefully constructed persona. Changing thanks to our relationships with others is the basis of inner growth and human connection, and that is exactly what Hannibal goes through, despite seeing himself as perfect, and initially trying be the one to change Will without himself changing, he eventually is forced to change himself in order to be able to have that connection, and even if in the character's case it means still being quite fucked up and evil, the basic idea is one that can be relatable and even a good example for everyone.
Sociopathy and psychopathy arent diagnoses anymore, only antisocial personality disorder since there really are no real distinctions
Edit: might be wrong though since Im no psychologist
Thank you. You’re right. I’m a psychology major
Thank you for speaking up.
We should trust sources that have studied these subjects extensively. Not magazines that just repeat stuff they liked the sound of.
The DSM-5 doesn't include "psychopath" or "sociopath." They are just labeled under "antisocial personality disorder"
no you ae right. im a psych major and its all under antisocial personality disorder. but there are a few distinctive qualities between a psychopath and a sociopath.
Yeah and obsessive compulsive disorder is labelled under a form of anxiety yet I would hardly compare it to social anxiety or panic attacks.
I've had this question on my mind for a long time. Characters like Hanibal, Loki , Grindelwald , Lucifer, why was i so fascinated by them, why , despite all the wrong doings , i couldn't bring myself to detest them. Was it their charisma , their attitude or the moral complexity they share? Thank you , the take , for covering this topic in your essay and for providing me answers. Your work is a blessing to my soul ;)
Because its media for entertainment, and they make these characters highly intelligent, have charm and charisma, and generally good looking. If you knew someone like this in real life, they'd probably try to destroy your life in some way for their own gain. A lot of them cant understand what others feel so they have less empathy
@Krisynthia Gomez I agree their more like chaotic neutrals and when something benefits them they do it. But they seem to be quite remorseful of their wrongdoings which leads me to believe they are neither.
@@daynieldeguzman4044 that's true
Wich Lucifer? The one from "Lucifer"? Or the one from "Supernatural"? Or the one from "The chilling adventures of Sabrina"?
Loki isn't a sociopath (at least not the MCU version). Which Lucifer are you referring to? The one from Supernatural? Sure. Lucifer Morningstar? Not really. There's a lot of Lucifers so maybe you mean one of those?
...actually, there was a real Loki on Supernatural as well that an angel was impersonating but I can't remember much about him...
They never did explain what the pagan Gods actually were or where they came from on that show did they?
The term "sociopath" does not exist in psychological literature. It's a colloquial term, not a medical one.
words so it exists
Dennis from “It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia” is prime Sociopath 😅
LordeFlocka Tee
But Dennis Reynolds isn’t cool or attractive, just pathetic.
@@archer1949 LIES! DENNIS IS A FIVE STAR MAN!!!
Dennis is hot as hell or at least there's the "implication" that he is .
Definitely a narcissist as well
GOLDEN GOD!!!
"I'm not a psychopath, I'm a high-functioning sociopath. Do your research."
Steven Moffat,
Yes, I love how Moffat claps back at his haters, he's one cool customer! 😎
@@trinaq I agree
@Trumpville sociopath act without thinking how others will be affected-they tend to lack sympathy. Psychopaths are more “cold-hearted” and calculating. They carefully plot their moves, and use aggression in a planned-out way to get what they want -they can't empathise with people.
I like how this makes it seem like this is a Steven Moffat quote about Steven Moffat, which I'm willing to buy because he hates his fans and turned Sherlock into his cool sexy self-insert fanfic after a while.
Wait. Arent sociopaths more impulsive, irresponsible & not great at keeping a job whereas a psychopath is more calculated & successful in their career?
Great take. You nailed it with how are obsession with psychopaths and sociopaths involve how they are a manifestation of our id.
Since when was Sherlock Holmes a sociopath? And you mentioned Alexander de Large, one of the most iconic sociopaths ever, but you didn't delve into the complexities of his character. Like how he is cultured, with his love and knowledge of Beethoven and music, and his vast vocabulary and fashion sense.
It's being a while since Hollywood decided to turn the bad guys into the people we are supposed to root for... and a lot of people agreed without even giving a second thought. Probably because they can empathize easier with morally questionable people? And no, I do not envy or find sociopaths 'charming'. That is sick.
I totally agree... Tired of this trope.
Everything is made up to empathize with'em
You never see any "bad" outcome to their actions. They're always doing the "right" thing despite their own impulses, the bad man always dies at their hand and society's contradictions get called out by their oh-so-charming wit.
They're scripted to be charming, but IRL we'd be fucked up by them.
People don't give most things a second thought... 🧐
Let people enjoy what they want. It doesn't affect you. There's plenty worse to be into.
@@MayHugger it does affect them, infact it affects entire species as a whole.
@@Ghost-vg6iq No, it doesn't.
An empty man can never truly deceive you, not if you actually understand that they are empty.
I like the sociopathic character, I understand them and enjoy the danger and excitement. And when I finally get bored I know they will either leave me changed forever or dead.
“Hello there. Who are you?” - Joe Goldberg
Recent studies into sociopathy and psychopathy show they don’t actual lack empathy. There just able to ignore it easily. More like you have it turned on and you dehumanize your turn it off but sociopaths have it naturally off and have to try to turn it on.
Psychopaths have cognitive empathy, not affective empathy. Sociopaths have both but they are overwhelmed by their emotional problems.
Psychopaths are eliterally incapable of it lol
I don't empathize naturally. I sympathize easily. Empathizing is work for me.
@@ataventurine7515 what is the difference between those two types of empathy? Please can you explain to me
@@user-ox3lr8eq5s cognitive empathy also known as theory of mind or mentalizing, the ability to literally trying imagine yourself in another’s shoes through mental imagination and intellectual understanding. Affective empathy or emotional contagion is when you feel another person’s emotions and feelings, you’re literally feel and identity with their emotions when you societally interact with them. Normal children tends to have high affective empathy. While adults have average levels of both cognitive empathy and affective empathy. Psychopaths have high cognitive empathy but deficient in their affective empathy, they can understand what people thinking and feeling but not truly feeling any connection with their victims.
I like how you pointed out that Don Draper from Mad Men is a sociopath. I've seen self-improvement videos on RUclips that use him as an example of something to aspire to in terms of charisma and all that, but it is alarming how these people overlook the fact that such characters are damaged and have equally bad characteristics.
To be honest I think we are wired to like sociopaths. We find them likable till we start seeing the destructive behavior and our defense system kicks in. How many times have we seen people talk about a number of murderers and serial killers for them to say they wouldn't have ever guessed what skeletons they locked up in the proverbial closet. On screen while the audience may know that character is a sociopath a lot of it is coded in a quirky humor that people identify with.
i think it's bc we're intrigued by rebels who don't play by society's rules and still win