Three good scenes, no bad ones. A Dune movie review.
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- Опубликовано: 7 ноя 2021
- Had to make this video traveling this month, so apologies if I sound tired. The video needed to be made ( and was also promised BEFORE the shrek video!).
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>A Dune movie review turns into a reflection on modern cinema
This is why we love you Dave never change
I really sympathize with the whole not finding modern movies enjoyable anymore.
My favorite director in Hollywood is Robert Eggers, and he's precisely doing pre-modern films. Can't wait for his Northman, The Witch and the Lighthouse were exciting.
Sheridan and Villeneuve are the only exceptions I can think off, as far as series I really enjoy the Kurt Sutter universe going on with Mayans MC.
A thing that greatly underwhelmed me in this movie was the scene of the jihad vision. This was by far the most striking scene and concept of the original book to me, Paul was given a Revelation-like vision of this horrible galactic war that would be waged in his name, seeing all the different paths that all led to the same war and knowing it was impossible to avoid.
Though maybe there is a more expansive vision that's supposed to happen after he's joined with the Fremen? I admit it's been over a decade since I last read the book.
Seeing people online say that greatest thing the director can do for the sequel is make Feyd a female, I feel we're simply in a society incapable of having popular art and entertainment that can lift us higher and people don't want a spiritually enriching experience when they go to the movies.
How depressing
That's a new one to me. It betrays a complete misunderstanding of the way the story was constructed. When Jessica had a son instead of a daughter, she put the kibosh on the Bene Gesserit plans to cross a female Atreides heir with a male Harkonnen heir (Feyd was the one they had in mind.) To make Feyd a female in "Part II" would make no sense given Jessica's now clearly established betrayal of her Sisterhood.
Villeneuve is FAR too respectful of the core plot lines of Dune to make such a change.
@@PeloquinDavid those saying making Paul's rival and mortal enemy female would be great mostly don't care about the source material. A lot of them would like a revisionist version of Dune.
Who's even say that? It's so fucking stupid and it misses the entire thing of the breeding program.
@@marcusanark2541 some woman on twitter with a bunch of people agreeing
Nowadays, I don't think people are trained to see large notions of meaning in art. Instead, there is this big emphasis on critical "lenses" (e.g., critical race, feminism, and Marxist to name a few) and a subsequent derailment of the old-fashioned hero's journey. Indeed, we witnessed the switch from old, revered mythologies to academic sociology as a source of interpretation awhile ago. Of course, it's no wonder why mainstream film critics are so good at pointing at the racial and sexist "undertones" of every film, down to the nitty gritty specifics that either were intentional or not. It's no wonder why the first thing the critics think about after watching Dune is "colonialism", and they feel smart after this assertion.
In any case, I think you're right that a movie like Dune can subconsciously inform an audience of meaning. Though, people might not know what they're watching or even feeling, there is some hint of catharsis and realization of traditional notions of beauty and redemption. It's possible that Dune's wisdom ends up being a protective layer it garners against call out culture, as even the most alienated forms of bugmen at least sense some meaning of it...in the short-term, I hope.
Interesting take. Where then would Game of Thrones or the Foundations Series lie on the continum of classic (Lord of the Rings-esqu) storytelling and this post- modern sociological sorrytelling?
@@Black_pearl_adrift Game of Thrones is anti-traditional and anti-mythological. I never saw the show but i read the books and i found the morality in it appalling. It is basically Machiavellian porn.
Just the other day i caught one of the various derivates of Game of Thrones (the one about Vikings) on TV, and there's a scene in that espide where a Viking leader decides to charge into battle despite the odds being against him, following the traditional notion that there is eternal life for those who die in battle, and the second in command scoffs at the stupidity of it, and we as an audience are supposed to laught too at the naivety and stupidity of the leader and his belief in the myths of his culture.
This is just a rapresentation of the kind of vision of reality espoused by Game of Thrones, which is materialistic, Machiavellian, and amoral.
@@sophiaperennis2360 hm. What do you mean by amoral? Like it's bad/wrong or that it consciously tries to avoid moral lessons? I'd agree with the latter but I think from the author's perspective he was relying too heavily on "realism" where characters get punished for not being hyper logical. The only "lesson" learned would be, "be aware of how you maneuver the world you're in, and follow its unwritten rules." But that's not much of a moral lesson.
@@sophiaperennis2360 many period shows are like this these days unfortunately.
Honestly, when you brought up the green Knight that was the first time they remembered it since watching it all those months ago, that movie to me symbolises why I don't want the modern movie industry touching any old work of art from a past generation. As they both don't understand what the original writer was trying to convey and also the fact they will undoubtingly change vital aspects in order for it to both appeal to the average movie-going audience and will change it in order to fit into the modern agenda of today's world.
Lol what are you talking about, the green knight was a great movie
@@criticizedreviews1081 it was artistic trash. It was a complete reversal of the original poem that relied on the original poem to give it ambiguity and allow for secular redemption.
I think it's more so that people are becoming more aware that movies are not a substitute for religious experiences, which is the purpose they have been serving for at least the last half century. They've been the crude glue that has held culture together as genuine religions have been falling apart.
Before movies that role was fulfilled by music. One of the reasons nobody cares about classical music is precisely because films took over that social role of replacing religion.
Movies have been used for decades to promote the religion of the elites. It’s just a dead and sterile religion.
You are worried that Dune could not communicate deeper themes to the audience, and I think there is a degree of merit to that. But could it be that today's audiences simply cannot receive these meanings?
I look forward to your review of the 2041 adaptation
That reminds me of Aquinas': "Communication happens in the mode of the receiver". There is definitely something where the conventional pathways to a modern audience do not allow for the type of communication desired here. But even with that, I think there could be architecture, scapes, and music which could expose the modern stunted audience into receiving new forms -- and maybe Dune 2021 gets some of those right, but then it fails to communicate on the forms Herbert seemingly was trying to present.
I believe he touched on that.
He didn’t use this language, but it is appropriate: new wine skins for new wine - new viewers capable of taking in new movies with broader, deeper themes.
The problem isn't that the audience cannot, but that the film barely even tries.
It stretches less story/character development than the 2000 mini series pilot has into a film with a run time lasting 66% longer.
As Supes said to Steppenwolf: "Not impressed....."
Hans Zimmer is getting worse too - he's begun to equate loud with epic more often than not going by Dune and BR2049, and it's very grating, though exactly how much of that is Villeneuve's influence on those 2 films I don't know.
there is no situation in which a living person *cannot* receive the meaning. but many have chosen to refuse to receive the meaning. this isn't new, it's just become impossible for many to ignore.
No. People are not any more stupid now than at any other point in history. Stupid people happen to have a lot more disposable income these days, and it's much easier to target that than make something intelligent, as was more required in the past.
Dave uploads at un-Godly times EST just to punish us coastal elites. I will accept this toll.
He hasn't forgiven me for being British
West coast is best coast
@@twiface69 What was that?
I couldn't hear you over the wildfires, earthquakes, and rampant sodomy around you.
It’s the punishment we deserve 😭
I honestly found the movie underwhelming, in a way. I read Dune only after Dave's video, and did not regret it in the slightest. I was pretty hooked, could hardly put the book down and was very happy that I got an edition that included the first two sequels.
When I heard that a new adaptation was in the works, I was excited without forgetting Dave's initial video. I didn't watch the trailer until I showed it to a friend to get him to come along. In a way the trailer was irrelevant to me, I had resolved to see the movie. The trailer would have to be staggeringly bad to make me change my mind. That wasn't the case obviously, but weirdly after the trailer I wasn't sure what to say in favour of the movie. It felt so superficial. Like a spectacle.
That impression from the trailer was very much confirmed in the movie itself. It felt weirdly rushed in some places and self-indulgent in others. The dialogue often sounded strange. That may have been intentional, but I didn't get that impression. Some characters felt very short-changed, Jessica especially so.
There were also some scenes which had me baffled by the acting. One with Rabban particularly had me seriously wondering if that was the best take they had.
Fun Fact: They ended up replacing all the incidental music with the music from _Lawrence of Arabia_ but then chickened out at the last second for the final release.
Are there any fan cuts of this?
@@beezerboy94 Its fan cuts all the way down.
Goddamn it
This is blatantly untrue. Zimmer was working on the music for months.
As someone who watched the movie before reading the books. The serving the sandworms analogy went straight over my head. I presumed she was just saying that she was loyal to Paul.
A piece of art cannot be better than the audience that experiences it.
Once Upon a Time... in Hollywood is one of the only films released in the last six years that’s really had any sort of impact on me in a manner outside of entertainment.
Add Dredd to this list of the few good modern movies
2019 was the best year for movies that I can remember: Parasite, The Lighthouse, Jojo Rabbit, 1917, Once Upon a Time In Hollywood, Joker, The Gentlemen, etc.
there are many articles on Counter Currents praising the new Bond movie.. also Midsommar was p good and reactionary..
@@realityweasel8461 I can’t believe I forgot about Joker. That one is definitely up there too. In hindsight, it seems fitting that it was released at the end of 2019. The others are on the watchlist, I haven’t gotten around to them yet though.
@@mostlydead3261 Haven’t seen the new Bond yet. I’m a few behind though, so I’ll have to get caught up first. Midsommer was a hit or miss with me. The first time I saw it, I was sold. On the second watch through, it fell flat. I’d like to go through it again after the 2020-21 palate cleanse to see if it sticks.
28:11 It's called 'burn-out'; have felt it myself for a while now, as the exponential increase of CGI and wokerism wastes cinema away. I don't want to be a stick in the mud, and I _know_ there are diamonds in the rough out there, but the current state of affairs, plus the fact we can always rewatch old favorites or even watch old flicks we've never seen before, really dampens the demand of the novel for me; Hollywood and the indies will have to really pick up their pace, if they want me to buy their product again, or even care about it...
I came across a photo the other day, of lines stretching down the block for Premiers of 'Star Wars' in 1977. And i remember the news of the day; people lining up for literally days to be first in line for tickets. Those days are not only long gone, but likely unimaginable for anyone born in the 21st Century.
It's not that it's a bad comment. Your thought is more clear than most. It is that I can feel how you think, and shrink in horror at the feeling. As if my mind was to be burned thought contact with how you think. A deeply personal insult I know. Yet one that is most sense, I am not your friend but I would treat you as one for just a moment to make this point. Your mind has rotted, it is rotten. Empty it, take yourself out of it, it is poison to your soul. Do this for me, do not think at all, just listen, for five minutes, sit and think of nothing, if you can do this you can be saved, if not, don't bother.
Maybe this is not a burn-out of MEDIA, but just the burn-out of information overload. Maybe it is a stage.
@@jaspergransoren4404 the customer / audience, in being presented with so much constant glirz and glamour, constantly over literally generations, will eventually become gilded. Decadence begets apathy. Particularly when the product becomes overtly and irrevocably hollow and shallow.
I'd rather just watch some random youtube guy build a box out of spare parts at this point..
@@LordEriolTolkien Precisely, better words than mine. I appreciate the help.
Been wondering when you're going to drop this one. Thanks Dave.
any post action review planned for the centrist debacle?
While I really liked Dune, the one issue I had was as soon as I left the theater, I had a hard time remembering anything about the movie that wasn't something that I was remembering about the book.
It was a mood piece centered around around Paul's journey stripping out a large amount of the political intrigue.
You make a few good points. Though I wouldn't say Villeneuve didn't give hints to the..."deification" of the worm to even non-readers of the books. Before that, in the scene of spice-harvester-incident, Liet made an even more clear suggestion to this, when she clearly starts praising/evoking a religious text, in all maters clearly a prayer. that made it pretty clear that the Fremen thought far more of the worm than a mere dangerous beast.
now, did that made it to everyone clear, as of the more religious-like interpretations that world with that worm had? I've looked at dozens upon dozens of reactions now: and most did seem to note it. Some didn't, true. but, well... you'll always have that to some degree. Even if you literally spelled it out. (And THEN you would have those complaining it was too spelled out ;-) )
In a certain sense, you will always be in a situation where you dammed if you do, and dammed if you don't. another example is the lack of reference of mentats, and their concepts (and thus, more broadly, that humans replaced computers in this universe). A few non-readers seemed to have an inkling to what it implied, but not too many. And readers, in fact, wanted the movie far more delving into the matter (in the book, even Paul was getting a mentat-training, after all).
I.. sort of understand these complaints. I wished he had put a wee tiny bit more of that specific lore in the movie.
but then again, I saw people already now complain that it was using to many strange words and concepts.
Bottomline: I don't think you can ever do good for everybody, and certainly not completely satisfy both lore-savvy readers and complete laymen, in this regard.
All in all, though, I think Villeneuve found a fantastic middle-ground, the right balance, between the two, where BOTH groups could enjoy the movie. I thought the movie was great - far better than the one of Lynch, in any case. The movie is visually stunnign, that's for sure. the acting is good. Many scenes are, I would claim, pretty memorable. Thematically, some things *were* a bit underdeveloped, true. But one has still part 2 for delving a bit deeper into that. At the very least, it has the potential, when viewed as a whole, to be called a masterpiece. It's already now on the brink of "great"... but of course, that's a comparative value.
If you compare it with almost all other movies these last 10 years, it IS already great. If you compare it with the classical "timeless" great movies, it still falls a bit short. but I *DO* feel it's finally breathing some new wind in the similar sci-fi genres. you do get a feeling of...mystique? Being intrigued by the exotic ambience of the movie? Everyone has his own measurement for when a movie is actually good, for me, with sci-fi or fantasy, it's when I actually start to believe *IN* the world - feeling as if it's *actually* an alien, different world out there. and Villeneuve did that. I didn't have that feel with many of the latest star-wars and startrek and what not movies.
So, while I understand where you're coming from, do take care you're - slowly but surely - not seeking some sort of "perfectionism" in it. You know, only considering a movie great because it fits you perfectly, or near-perfectly. That's a too high standard, and will only be possible for movies that following closely your own personal preferences. All the rest will always fall short. But then again, making it perfect for you, makes it imperfect for another. So to claim, in a wee bit more objective way, that a film/movie is good/great, you need a standard of "reasonableness". You can't put the bar TOO high neither. "What is a great movie?" is not the same as adding "for me" behind that question. And, of course, tastes will always differ a bit and it's unavoidable one looks at a movie with ones' own eyes and expectations, but I'm just saying: one needs to build in some tolerances for imperfection, when gauging (the greatness) a movie.
the uncut version was 4 hours long, the spaihts cut version was just over 3 hours long and then the studio cut the movie by a further 30 minutes. There have been many leaked images from deleted scenes that were cut. This is why Thufir, Piter and Gurney have little to do because their scenes were cut. Everyone is hoping for an extended edition at some point.
There's NO reason to think the studio (much less the other screenwriters) had a hand in the assemblage and cutting of this film.
Unlike poor David Lynch's Dune (which DID suffer from serious studio meddling), "Part I" holds up very well indeed and has all the hallmarks of a Villeneuve film while also respecting what I consider to be the core themes of Frank Herbert.
I completely understand why Villeneuve (and nobody else) left certain things out entirely - e.g. the dinner scene (which I expect will duly be released as a cut scene in the 4K/blu-ray release) - and in some cases (e.g. Thufir's suspicion of Jessica being the traitor) other story lines possibly being adapted for inclusion in Part II, along with a lot of other Harkonnen-sourced intrigue.
@@PeloquinDavid There has been no official statement given by Denis that he had final cut. What i think more likely is the studio decided the movie had to be cut by a further 30 minutes and let denis cut his movie down by 30 further minutes. Still though denis himsellf admitted cutting certain scenes was a difficult decision for him in an interview (the ones with stilgar). There is no evidence to suggest the banquet scene nor the Thufir/jessica scene was ever filmed. There is however evidence to suggest a lot of scenes were filmed (leaked photos) but just not those 2 scenes. Now i hope they were but i doubt it.
Scenes we know 100% were filmed and cut, Yueh giving paul the OC Bible, Gurney playing the balliset, Piter torturing a captured atreides soldier, thufir being brought to the baron, kynes meeting leto for the first time, yueh and jessica discussing his dead wife, duncan landing on arrakis and finding the fremen, the atreides finding a gift left by the baron in arrakeen.
You're being too kind, it was kinda bland.
I've seen it twice now. I don't think the movie would hold together at all without Zimmer's prodigious score (the first OST I have purchased since Fight Club's 22 years ago). The film lacks internal momentum for all of it's lean editing, but simultaneously does not descend to the granular level of focus that justifies the deliberate pacing of the story in the book. The cinematography is quite beautiful, all of the shots are well composed, but all of the characters feel flat. Paul lacks any real interiority despite the focus placed on him. Also, despite the broad scope of the vista's and locations, there is a dearth of civilians in any scenes to make places feel lived in. Any time locals are shown in Arakeen it is always static shots of a handful of people that look like a couple of extras herded through central casting. It makes the world feel small despite the sweeping vistas.
I have mixed feelings about Kynes's death scene. While I agree that there is a worthy amount of subtext in the scene as executed to justify the alteration, one of the reasons for Kynes's death as portrayed in the book is to establish just how relentless and unflinchingly hostile Arrakis's desert is, even for someone fully acculturated to it, and to provide some man vs nature horrors about what death by exposure entails. It establishes the knife edge that all life on Arrakis is constantly pushed up against. But it is a very long scene in the book, especially with Kynes's odd dialogue with the pedantic ghost of his father.
All in all, I found the new Dune film to be an enjoyable cinematic experience, especially after 1.5 years of not going to the cinema, but much like the candy I ate during the screening it was not as nourishing as it was merely stimulating.
It's good to have another video essay by good ole Dave.
I can't stop listening to the sardukuar chant please help
ruclips.net/video/an289RSt1Cc/видео.html you're welcome
Got some great stuff here boys
Great essay. I agree so many modern movies are beautiful to look at but ultimately meaningless and forgetable. Or they have the potential to be memorable but botch important elements. The movie industry has got better at cinematography and special effects while losing the art of telling a meaningful, emotionally satisfying story. It's all pretty pictures and no heart or brains.
There are about a dozen movies made from the 1940s to 2006 that I can rewatch endlessly, but I can't think of a film from the last five years or so that I want to watch again.
Yeah I prefer a film with thought-provoking themes and a gripping plot that is well-written but with poor funding and thus not so great costumes and sets and no-name actors that are hit or miss to a film that has fantastic art direction and special effects and high-paid actors and such but lacking a compelling storyline and a unique aesthetic and themes you can sink your teeth into and ponder over for hours. There are so many directorial debut films that were made on a shoestring budget that have a million times more heart and creativity than even the most visually spectacular films. Now if course, it is nice when a movie has the best of both worlds, but if I have to choose, I much prefer the cheap but interesting film to the expensive but boring one.
Science fiction should almost always be animated.
Animated or written. I still think sci fi is dead in 2021. I barely even bother anymore.
Tell that to Alien, Interstellar, 2001: a Space Odyssey, Star Trek, Dune...
@@DamjanPlamenac I stand by it. All of those movies would’ve been better if they were made by Miyazaki, because we wouldn’t have been able to notice any of the special effects.
dune is fantasy
@@philipdru4782 Same difference. Special effects of any kind are required to make the story believable you ought to animate ir
Calling down divine wrath to slay your enemies is quite reminiscent of the death of Samson
You mean the whole Old Testament.
I know it's a bit soft but I really enjoyed Little Women from a few years ago. They respected the material well and it felt powerful when it needed to
Chalamat was in that as well.
It’s hard to go wrong with Little Women… unless they choose to do a terrible modern remake (I think I just threw up a little at the thought)
I agree with most of your assessment, although I never thought that the film really got to the point where the deep critique that you're making was really applicable. The depth of meaning that you're bringing up would be difficult for any movie to communicate when it was bringing in its "own world" and not speaking through the lens of an established value system like Christianity. Trying to do so would have been immensely ambitious in any film, and given the deeper problems with the movie attempting to do so probably would have fallen flat even in "better times".
The more basic problems that you allude to is the lack of depth that the characters are given. Kynes is probably the best served even through his gender swap. From there the depth of the characters was muted for everyone, particularly Paul, Yueh, and even the Baron (although he was probably the most expendable). The immense emotional complexity portrayed in the book is lost, the true romance of the continuous allusions to future events, particularly Irulan's periodic quotations, gone entirely. The already confusing politics of the book are made simultaneously more simple and yet more unintelligible.
Essentially everything added (admittedly not too much) in Dune 2021 was a trope: Paul prophesying Duncan's death, his debilitating spice trances, particularly in front of the carrier, the recurrent visions of Chani just so she could be stuck on the box art and there could be some hint at romance.
Dune 2021 was a good movie, but it drops everything that was most interesting about the story proper to become a much more generic hero story. It not only failed to deliver any messages of depth not communicated by the book, but it failed to communicate the depth that was there.
Timothy Kallamay, Denis Villnoof, Alejandro Joe de Rowsky, Leet Keens.
Good god, did you deliberately set out to mispronounce every single name in this video?
Dave's always had idiosyncratic takes on names.
Americans
@@s7d788 nah, even as an American, I notice he constantly fucks up names. He does it in his other videos too.
The brutalist architecture didn't fit with the atreides home on Caladan but definitely fit the Harkonnens and their former home on Arrakis and Gedi Prime.
it fits Atreides bc of its fascist and militaristic aura.. its a p reactionary aesthetic..
I've got rose-tinted glasses for the 2000 miniseries, myself. The 2021 movie was entirely style over substance, and I can't forgive them for utterly scalping the political intrigue that made House Harkonnen so sinister.
While I agree with both the cultural critique, and the your points about the book and this adaptation, the idea that any movie could possibly convey the layers of meaning and depth of insight that a book can is ludicrous.
There are shallow books and deep movies. There are even movies that you could argue are better than their book source material, but the movie medium is constrained on these fronts in a way that books are not. Books are similarly constrained in ways that movies are not.
I believe that this movie stands tall among movie adaptations in general, but towers as a giant among ants when the depth of the source material (and the previously mentioned constraints) are taken into account. That was my experience as one who is familiar with the book. My wife is not. She is also not really familiar with previous adaptations (I think I dragged her through the mini-series once about a decade back). She enjoyed this movie and thought it made sense. It may not have made as much sense, but that will always be the case with adaptations.
I think you can safely relax some of your expectations here. This movie will point people back to the book. It elevates the book for those who already read it, with beautiful art, visuals, and acting. A good adaptation of a book of any depth is at best a companion to the text, and as a companion to the text, this may be the best adaptation of any book I've ever seen.
Lol, I’ve never read Dune or even watched your review, but checking for more nrx content, I saw your old review and read the comments. Thanks for posting this reply.
I fell asleep in the third half of Bladerunner 2049. I tuned out after they brought in the heavily shoveled in "poor me" Diaspora cyclops skinjobs.
I like how K basically just ignores that whole sequence. It's the perfect microcosm of what we should be doing with these ideological idiots.
Cyclops Replicant: "We're going to stage a glorious revolution and this hybrid replicant will be our symbol, ra ra fight the power also kill this beloved relic of the past (yes I know we could easily save him if we used our resources shut up)"
K: "No"
*real human bean...bean...bean...bean...*
Agree and extra points for the American tourists in the Sixtine Chapel. You nailed it.
I can't stand the "novel is too dense for movie" argument. It's possible. Peter Jackson did it. If you have to cut a bit, that's fine. My issues are similar to the problems people had with Bladerunner 2049, which I loved and who's criticism I didn't understand. Denis' Dune lacked substance, instead going long on a depressing mood and large wide shot voids. At least Lynch's dune excited the imagination, just like the Westwood Dune game's cutscenes did. This wasn't a terrible movie like all the other trash coming out, but it was a lukewarm Dune movie.
I'm totally with you there, I much preferred BR2049 to Dune, giving us something to chew on.
As far as Hollywood is concerned I'm just waiting for more Robert Eggers movies.
@@withnail-and-i yes exactly what i was thinking. even though i loved 2049 someone accused me of projecting 2049 grievances on to dune. to hear another person get, it is like therapy. so much void gazing with thin characters saying silly things like "desert power" on what felt like an empty planet.
_Joker_ , _Tenet_ and _Dune_ are the best Hollywood has to offer tells you how low the watermark has become.
What about Licorice Pizza, French Dispatch, Once Upon A Time in Hollywood, Dune? They're all hard Hollywood movies and they're great. You're just focusing on the mainstream like everyone else. Also Tenet is underrated and ages like fine wine.
What the fuck you're talking about, Joker is a amazing movie!
Joker us p much a NRX movie..
@@mostlydead3261 Xdddd
@@marcusanark2541 joker is subversive degenerate garbage and a clumsily executed mishmash of comic lore and Taxi Driver.
your mention of the death scene of Liet-Kynes was really spot on.
Very much enjoyed this film.
This was the worst movie I've ever seen in my 27 years of life. And I've seen a lot of movies. A lot.
@@VirusZero0140 I rewatched the 3 hour fan edit of Lynch's dune after watching Dune 2021, I enjoyed the Lynch fan edit so much more. Villeneuve's Dune is soulless, no surprise since he's a Canadian.
@@Z0Dll If you didn't catch the Phoenix symbolism, then you probably didn't catch other occult symbolism. You think it's a boring movie because you didn't see the symbol language that was telling a very earthly story along with the surface level Dune story.
@@MonstersNotUnderTheBed The fact that you invented out of thin air that I said it's a boring movie shows that you aren't arguing in good faith.
@@Z0Dll Like I thought, too dumb to see all the ancient occult symbolism, which is why you think it's soulless
Kind of off-topic but I really implore people to watch an episode of The Chilling Adventures of Sabrina to understand how vacant even explicitly spiritual content has gotten. Even as a Catholic it's hard to engage with the show because it's so empty and hollow, things that should be significant are made utterly *mundane*. Its doesn't even have the ability to be truly sacrilidgeous or subversive because it doesn't understand what its trying to subvert. There is truly no weight to the fundamentally heavy topics its covers. It's really disappointing.
This reminds me, I need to watch that video. I read the book, im ready for that video!
fantastic as always
I understand what you are saying about taking something away from films, feeling like you’ve been changed or learned something. I think you are looking at the past with rose tinted glasses however, overestimating audiences and films of the past. Modern audiences are in a worse place and so is modern film, but in pushing back against the modern rot it seems to glorify films and audiences in our own lifetimes more than deserved. Great review and i loved the movie, though i also experienced looking at the friends i went to see it with and seeing the confusion in their eyes.
Your voice has a comforting familiarity to it.
Fair review, not disappointed at all.
I came to hear about Dune, but this turned into a lovely, larger talk I thoroughly enjoyed. Great video Dave!
Hello!
@@patriciusvonkempen9810 Howdy =)
I always thought dune would benefit most from a long form series adaptation.
Part 1 and 2 will probably end up being just as long as the 2000 mini series. But the miniseries actually does an excellent job at characterization by simply taking its time. I just rewatched it and felt like all the major plot points were covered from multiple angles, not to mention much more attention was paid to everyone's relationship. Paul had multiple scenes with his father, for example. All of this was done in one hour and 15 minutes -- right before the attack. Something like this could've been done instead of over reliance on visuals. This doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of the other problems I had with the new movie.
I however still enjoyed it. But it's flawed on a number of levels.
Dave, you asked for a source re: what someone else in these comments said about Tolkien's dislike of Dune, I'm posting this as a separate comment as I figure it's more likely you will see it that way. You can find the following in 'The Letters of J. R. R. Tolkien', he wrote it to someone who had sent him a copy of Dune in 1966:
"It is impossible for an author still writing to be fair to another author working along the same lines. At least I find it so. In fact I dislike Dune with some intensity, and in that unfortunate case it is much the best and fairest to another author to keep silent and refuse to comment."
I had a good laugh when I first read that. I like Dune a lot but I can understand that Tolkien did not.
The movie was great, but Ihave one complaint. The cencorship of violence, gore and blood. The only blood in the movie you can see is when the guy dreams of his hands being bloody. There are plenty of fights with blades, but not a single drop of blood. This doesnt affect the story, but it looks stupid and childish.
Oh, yeah. Great review, btw :)
This is what you get when you aim for PG-13 in the US in an effort to broaden the potential audience pool (a decision that made marketing sense, frankly). This is actually the first Villeneuve film NOT rated "R".
I'm hoping they reconsider for "Part II": I can't imagine the Fremen "spice orgy" in the wake of the water-of-life scene otherwise... And I'd also welcome back Villeneuve's studiously matter-of-fact and unglorified depiction of violence.
One note : In Bladeruner there are no Android's....they are genetical enhanced, artificial born Humans. Replicans not Androids.
Given the original source material used the word “Android” I think I could be spared the nit-pick.
Good video, thanks!
My father succeeded in getting me to watch the movie. Since the music and the cinematography were the stars, I mostly enjoyed it. But, sorry to disagree regarding the cast. Rebecca Ferguson's Jessica was the one bright light, though Josh Brolin was serviceable and Oscar Isaac did look the way I imagined Leto. Stellan Sarsgaard could have done better with a more nuanced script. Everyone else was either sleepy or simply bland.
This Dune felt like a great movie cut in half, in large part due to no good build up to the final fight or showcasing its consequences
The main antagonist to Paul is not the Baron but the terrible future he must choose to survive. Sadly I don't get any sense that he's really dealing with it other then what we see in the tent.
I really enjoyed the movie but I don't see it exciting and holding onto its viewers like Lord of the Rings did.
One viewing is not enough.
I myself am a big fan of the original book, and can argue the flaws of the previous adaptations with the best of them, and I too left my first screening of Dune 2021 feeling oddly ambivalent.
But I went and saw it again, in part because I wanted to compare a non-IMAX screening to an IMAX one. And OH BOY was I moved the second time. Nuances that I had missed the first time around came and smacked me upside the head, the music affected me more deeply (I think because I was able to more easily ignore its sheer strangeness and appreciate the actual themes and how they connect to what's on screen), and I caught references in the dialogue that I had missed the first time around for one reason or another.
My third viewing proved even more moving than the first two. My conclusion is that this movie is SO DENSE with the information it is attempting to convey- which you note yourself in your critique- that it is all but impossible to get it ALL in one viewing. Humans just plain can't process like that yet; we're not mentats. Repeat viewings are VERY rewarding for this movie.
I admit that my perspective as a book fan is highly biased, since I know where the story is going next (BIG fingers crossed for a Jamis funeral as the first scene, or one of the first, in Part Two). I also think that an Extended Edition release of this on the home market is almost mandatory, since we KNOW some important scenes containing even more information (like the extended Gom Jabbar scene and the dinner party scene) were filmed, but were cut out of the theatrical version we have now. Denis seems to be highly reluctant to do that, but I for one am VERY much hoping he changes his mind.
Haven't read the book. The movie felt like a gorgeously illustrated Wikipedia synopsis.
What a sharp critique. I’m definitely using it from now on.
Come on man! Ruining so many people's No Distributist November.
I caught the last 20 minutes of Dune after coming home from work. I have a lot of strong feelings about the book. To me the ending did nothing for me, it should have ended with paul crying over killing his first man. Between the death of his father, the meeting of the mother of his kids (and he knew she would be) and the killing. There is A LOT to say about real identity... Paul was now a man. Once he passes into adulthood, enter some spice mechanics, and he's already becoming hyper aware of his powers.
@10:30 welcome to being an old man, my friend. ;)
I second the emotion (age 63)
It looked great but was ultimately hollow. Usually the advice is to show not tell, but this is a rare case where a bit more tell would have done it good. Even already knowing the book it would have been better if the movie put some emphasis through the characters into how important the spice is. Lots of things missing that help the theme of the novel come across. If you already know, then you can string it across the visuals yourself inside your mind, but it's really the job of the movie to convey that and it failed at that job. Still a decent (6-7/10) movie for a movie but I would agree that it's not a successful Dune adaption.
Technically your right...this Dune is 2 movies & not a movie :p
This Dune movie is a good movie for a movie these days but I don't think it's a good Dune film.
Not enough material colours
The gender, race pandering was jarring
The key character scene of the dinner was cut
Shots were close up when they should have been more distant and vice versa
People were clothed when they should have been stripped and got changed where they should already have been.
There was not enough extended silence anywhere, or held tension.
Rebecca Ferguson is a good actress but is miscast as Lady Jessica who should be both more beautiful and guiling in the way great beautiful women can be.
By material colours I mean that an opportunity for Medieval gilt and pattern with a sci-fi edge was lost to a dull pallette of greys and bronzes.
Lady Jessica should not have been seen to be so worried and afraid so much but the core of her character as a great and able lady presented and her worries and fears then revealed.
(Hollywood can't seem to do strong female characters well even when gifted them).
This was a chance to do epic sci-fi raw without the plastic sheen; the heat should have been palpable and oppressive, the dry dusty sands tangible, the reverence for water and the desire for it weighty.
I'm thinking the original Vin Diesel vehicle Pitch Black did a better job of all that with a scrap of the budget.
I don't get what the fuss is all about in relation to "race-swapping" in particular. (As near as I can tell, the undeniable gender-swapping of Kynes made no material difference I could see to the story line so I don't really care.)
To my knowledge, there is little if any mention in the book of the racial features of humans 20 thousand years in the future.
Sure: previous films and series targeted a largely American audience and even 20 or 40 years ago it was still common to see all-white casts for sci-fi films in particular.
But US box office and TV viewership numbers count for a lot less in today's world than they used to (a trend that's unlikely to reverse any time soon) so no one should be surprised that a story that's inherently NOT about a particular country's racial history in the 18th to 21st centuries of our era takes on a more varied "look" than it would have in decades long past. As long as the filmmakers don't distort the story and "preach" to me about anything unrelated to the story, I'm cool...
@@PeloquinDavid
Your comment confuses me, are you asserting that the race and gender swapping of Kynes and the nonsensical multiethnic mishmash of the non space-faring land rooted Fremen wasn't distorting the story and preachiness unrelated to the story?
Dave, if you really liked Bladerunner 2049 (which I haven't seen) and you thought Dune has "3 good scenes and no bad ones," what are your opinions on other Denis Villeneuve films? Sicario, Arrival, etc.
I appreciate the discussion on modern cinema and largely agree with your points but I feel like you kind of falter in explaining how you think Dune falls into that same trap.
You compare Liet's death to the scene from the Green Knight, which is awkward and limp-wristed and ultimately fails to say anything of meaning - but your primary concern with Liet's death doesn't seem to be anything like that. You find great thematic depth and irony in Liet's death, and an illustration of one of Dune's most powerful and enduring themes - that is, the ultimate weakness and insignificance of politics in the face of true religious belief and divinity. Your complaint seems more aimed at the audience than the film itself. Will they get it? Will they get anything out of it?
I hesitate to say you're wrong here. I don't think Dune 2021 really did say anything, because ultimately Dune 2021 is half a movie, and we'll have to wait to see if it can actually land these ideas that it only hints at in its first part. I just think it's a little strange that you spend so much time critiquing a scene that you seemed to really enjoy and find meaning in.
Anyway, glad to see you making videos. Keep up the good work.
The cinematography was amazing and it had a lot of great actors in it. While I'm not familiar of the book franchise it was a good experience. The first act was very slow but by the second one its were it gets more intense.
Of course Hans Zimmer did the soundtrack! I was getting Prince of Egypt vibes when the earth-worms were coming in the desert.
The gender swap even tho they don't call attention to it anyway still casually disrupts what we know about the Fremen and I did not find the actress's performance believable on top of it
dune should have been animated
🤮
I think the Critical Drinker said in a recent video that part of the reason so many modern movies suck is that studios are going for the lowest common denominator, trying to grab as much of the audience world wide, as they can. The average person is pretty dumb, and at least half the people you meet are dumber still. The lower the IQ, the less they'll care about good story and more they'll be happy with cool CGI. Factor in the shrinking attention span which our cell phones have helped to shrink even further, and sprinkle in a good bit of social justice infestation. Include the fact that no studio wants to fork over the money for practical effects, resulting in spectacular but forgettable scenes. Aliens and spaceships and zombies march across the screen today, and they're immediately forgotten, but when someone sees the creature burst out of that one guy's chest in John Carpenter's The Thing, it haunts you for the rest of your life.
Top that all off with the fact that many writers/directors/producers come from soft, bland, middle class backgrounds where they haven't had any real life experiences outside of home, university, and the entertainment industry. They don't know how to portray real emotions and situations because they haven't had any; no tragedy, no great fear or uncertainty, no struggle, they haven't been in an adult fist fight or seen war or wondered if they could put food on the table. They haven't worked hard with their hands to make something and so don't know the abiding satisfaction of seeing something you worked hard for come to fruition. Hell, most of them don't know how to change a tire without watching a RUclips tutorial. They don't know what it is to be human, not in the way earlier generations did or how most people outside the Western middle class do. This means the stories they create seem off, missing something, like a kissless virgin writing a romance or sex scene.
Emperors New Clothes and you are the tailor.
Bladerunner 20-forty-Snooze cant hold a candle to Ridley Scott's original. All Villeneuve movies start out compelling and eventually wear me down with their bladder damaging runtime. Dune is no exception, as the 3rd act meanders like a mother and son lost in the desert.....say what you will about Lynch's Dune, but he actually brought weirdness and pleasure to his adaptation. Poor Denis wouldnt know a joke if it bit him in his over serious ass
Imagine being so mentally damaged by 10 years of marvel movies that you can't handle a serious film any more.
@@thelordofcringe Imagine having such low standards that anything that pretends at high drama automatically becomes a masterpiece in your mind.
Liet's death was a great departure from the book.
For all the arguments you created with your comments on this, what you say will ring definitively true is I feel will be (if it comes to that point) adaptation of subsequent movies. It would really need to be something like Holy Mountain to be able to encompass the literary breadth in visual tone, and as you analyzed as well, the current Hollywood is incapable to making such films at the moment.
I had not really made those connections on Bladerunner 2049. Maybe it's just my bias because I don't really care for the original Bladerunner or the cyberpunk genre but that film didn't work for me the first time I saw it. Looking at it from a viewpoint of "all of this is fake and gay" maybe would help me appreciate it more. What are your thoughts on the scene where the Android lady goes in and murders the chief of police? That scene really rubbed me the wrong way, it just seemed so...implausible? Also Dave have you ever seen a Korean Horror movie called The Wailing from 2016? That movie is excellent, I think it does a good job of having a spiritual dilemma.
I mean. It is a society run by a handful of megacorporarions, the police are underfunded and understaffed, and beholden to the whims of the megacorps.
The book is all one needs.
Lmao sick cinema snob reference
I an sooo angry that when i found Out there IS a Dune Film after i basicly eaten The books. Because IT isn't even Shown anymore in German Cinemas x.x
I think your general opinions about movies are correct and your analysis of DUNE and Blade Runner are both very well analyzed, however I think as much as you're typically great at reading into the esoteric in so many things I think you misunderstood all of the meanings in that scene, which were based in the motifs and really the hermeneutic of the Green Knight film.
However I mean this in all fairness so I understand why you came to that conclusion..
Still what I'm suggesting is far more nuanced and subtle, so I also must admit that I am unsure if even the direction of that whole film was a creation of thorough intention but rather I get a clear sense it was more of an artistic culmination of a gestalt of inspirations. Similar to The Fountain for example.
I recognize a very specific exegesis of that film that's easy to overlook but it's something that once noticed becomes incredibly hard to deny.
Anyway it's too complex to hash out but you can watch again and keep all such general details I've barely brushed upon here and you might just catch onto the details of meaning in the St. Winifred crossover.
- Your Quality Apologist
I liked your previous video and agree. You can't squeeze Dune into a single film. It was interesting watching it with people who don't know the story.
There are scenes and situations that people unfamiliar with the material won't catch.
Extremely subtle glasses, looks and expressions.
The 3 scene rule along with all rules are very much subjective. Taking a person's race, gender and sexuality into consideration.
i only remember small parts of lynch's dune never read the books but doing it now and when i watched it i did not have a hard time following what was going on at all some details weren't there but overall it was easy to follow so don't understand why You said They didn't understand motives and plot but having read the first two books now and starting children of dune it does put more perspective for sure but stand alone movie was fine
Maybe this feeling of "something lacking" can be filled with the second part? I don't know, I loved this movie but I can see what you and others mean.
I know Dune the book(s) too well to have been unsure of what was going on in "Dune Part I", but in the three times I saw the film as it was intended to be seen (in a premium cinema seat), my non-"Dunatic" companions (both friend and family) didn't have any trouble following it.
So I'm a bit surprised at your take on Liet Kynes' death. Even a Dune newbie (providing they were paying attention) could hardly have missed Kynes' earlier quotations/recitations of what was clearly "scripture" for her and the clear association of the name (and teeth) of Shai-Hulud with something sacred to the Fremen in general.
To my mind, there was nothing remotely ironic or symbolic in her profession of faith in her God at the moment of her death (even as the God itself was about to consume her). It didn't come off as any more surprising (or meaningful or even merely ambiguous) than the more nihilistic reflections on death of the much more scientifically minded Kynes of the book...
Reminder that you're all just commenting Half of a story. It's naive. You wouldn't shit on a book without finishing it? Gom Jabbar, Spice Harvester, Jamis Fight. Three good scenes, no bad ones. Bonus points for Sardaukar scene, Baron and Gaius Mohiam scene, Gurney and Paul Fight.
I disagree, the new Dune movie reminded me of epic Biblical movies of old, retold in a sci fi setting, as it did multiple people i talked to. It has a potential to reach deeper into audiences and grasp into forgotten desires and archetypes, such as the story of the tragic greek hero, further than most movies usually do
I think that the reason why LOTR connected in a way that Dune didn't is that the characters were not portrayed in a cinematically memorable manner, so the potential to reach deeper sentiments is limited. There should be way more characters like Duncan Idaho.
Timothy "kalamay" damn
kids, dont do drugs lol
what message did you get from br2049?
That Dune book at twenty seven minutes looks like it could use a replacement. When my Lord of the Rings books started looking like that I got some replacements.
have you played the pc game Dune(1992)? although not at all accurate to the books it captures the "arrakis vibe" the best. i did not like Dune 2021, even visually it was not impressive to me
Unfortunately the film has to be digestible to modern audiences with no background of the story. My theater experience was filled with people from every age group, including a group of teenage girls who were almost surely there for either Chalamat or Zendaya.
There was a collective lament over the lack of Zendaya in the film made by the consumers of the lowest forms of media that became a twitter/buzzfeed hub bub.
I thought the film was beautiful and pretty awesome, but I agree that it is lacking some transcendent messaging and I attributed that to the need for Hollywood cater to a broad audience.
I would be curious to see if there is a director's cut that may give greater context to the universe as in the book.
Hey Dave,
Ever thought of doing a TV series review?
Maybe address how The Walking Dead refers to the living people and not the zombies.
How The Black List character Raymond Reddington may have some Reactionary views.
How Dr House is an eccentric genius yet unorthodox for NJ. Where telling it like it is is a virtue. That sugarcoating life makes you weak.
See now you're just gonna get shit for liking the new Kynes. But a good video and even-handed review.
Herbert wrote Kynes as an author insert character. I'm not really upset about the woke-ism. I just wanted them to cast an actor that looked a bit like Frank Herbert.
Hell, Kynes is really just Brian Herbert when you think about it. I'm not mad about the wokeism myself. I know the name of the game is "no negotiation with modernity" but sometimes you just have to say "who really cares?"
Woke - a soft term for a phenomena that is far more serious than it sounds - is a proverbial cancer and heavily responsible directly and indirectly for how empty much of the globalist bread & circus has become. Pretending you don't care about it is like pretending that the relentless propaganda promoting mixed race coupling isn't a genocide project with a long-term timescale that coerces the population to become something that suits the malevolent globalist agenda.
If you don't care or not upset about these things then you're wrong not to be because you're willfully or unwillfully relegating their significance.
Unrelated to the video, haven't even seen it yet,
But I've never heared distributist talk about political trichotomy. Which is one of the basic truths that allows one to have an understanding of the real world.
I thought the bladerunner sequel was truly awful.
Dune was boring. Very boring. It was a film made by a cinematographer, not a director. Visually impressive but empty and I can't imagine how confusing it must have been for anyone not at least somewhat familiar with the source material.
I knew absolutely nothing about Dune other than George Lucas was inspired by it. And I thought Dune was one of the best sci-fi movies I've seen. But, I have studied ancient occult religious symbols, so, watching Dune was like watching 2 movies at once.
@@MonstersNotUnderTheBed I certainly have no argument with other people enjoying things I don't like. I hope you enjoy part 2 just as much. 👍
You sound jaded
New DUNE was dull compared to Lynch's version.
w
Junk Food Cinema
Is there more to your Dorsey-Rasputin comment than the beard?