@user-wr6nl8kl6c Have you been attacked by large predators or prey like grizzlies or bull moose and used 9mm on them successfully? I don't live in a state that has those, but I'd be wary of using 9mm on large non-human threats like that.
@@user-wr6nl8kl6cwell Yeah There are documented cases of a 22 air rifle being used to kill grizzlies. Does that mean its my go to? Absolutely not lol. I carry a 9mm with the heaviest ammunition i can get my hands on in the woods, but only because I havent purchased a 10 yet. Yes it does work, and yes there are more instances of bears being killed with a 9mm, but there are also a lot more where the user was killed. A 9mm CAN work, doesnt mean its the best caliber to carry. Everything a 9 can do a 10 does better.
Bad info to try to sell a product. A true hard cast will not break up like unless your ringing steel. You will get significantly more penetration and weight retention with a hard cast.
Steel is definitely different than a bear, but if I’m in bear country I’m not going to think about how much money I saved by going for the less expensive ammo. Yes, I’ll spend the cash to buy a single box of buffalo bore for a bear walk
Thank you for posting the video. Buffalo Bore makes fine ammunition. However, plate steel is not flesh and bone and hard cast, flat point should not be discounted as bear defense ammunition in the 10mm auto. In February of 2020 I took a 190# boar. The specifics are as follows: Weapon: Glock 20, Gen 4, 6” KKM Match barrel, Burris Fastfire 3 RMR Ammunition: Underwood 200gr flat nose coated hard cast MV: 1290 fps(measured) ME: 739 foot pounds(calculated) Range: 37 yards Target Aspect: Facing Impact: About an inch below, nasal side of left eye Exit: Right ham, destroyed pelvis prior to exit Complete pass through - about 4 ft I really don’t think my bullet flattened out on impact on a tough animal. Hard cast is my choice for bear defense; but whatever you choose, choose wisely.
Well said. They simply wouldn’t make the FN hardcast loaded to those specs for anything OTHER than pure obliteration of whatver you spit those pills at. I 2nd Buffalo bore
@@RobertHall-ef8yf I said they wouldn’t make FN (Flat Nose) hardcast rounds loaded to those spec (1290fps , 739Ft-Lbs) for anything other than obliterating a target. Flat nose does more damage than a traditional rounded FMJ && I said I 2nd Buffalo bore as in they have some great stuff.
@9MilRidge Yes, sir. That's what my brother told me to go with. That's what he runs in his Taurus hunter revolver 6inch .357. When his out camping in NC. I purchased a rock island tac ultra fshc 10mm dubble stack. Cause I'd rather have 15 round of 10mm hard cast Buffalo bore than 6 rounds of it. .357 Buffalo bore hard cast is only has 125 fps and 40 ft of muzzle energy than 10mm. I'd rather have capacity
an option I don't see often discussed and specifically for bear and what I'd choose are the Swift A-Frame bullets. Federal's (slow) load, or hand load, they penetrate quite deep 18-22" in clear gel and expand like they advertise. FYI - I have a couple of vids posted of the shots into gel.
Anything you hit steel with, is gonna turn to mush, but 200-220 grain hardcast doesn't fall apart in heavy bone, and tissue. Buffalo bore 21c has been around a long time, and the gold standard for dangerous game.
What do you think about "extream hunter" from (underwood) it's monolithic over 1400fps I believe 180 grains. (10mm) I run sig v crowns and American gunner XTP. For home defense.
It's good stuff, if you shoot it a lot you may have to switch out your guide rod spring for a stiffer spring. Also if you thinking of using it for woods defense over all I think the Buffalo Bore hard cast 200 grain or the 180 monolithic are a better option or the coated hard cast 200 or 220 grain Underwood.
The Buffalo Bore expansion was beautiful. But, did it penetrate at least three feet before “dumping “ all its energy!? I don’t want to shoot a grizzly with a slug 🐌 that expands on fat but fails to reach the bone 🦴
I have a couple of vids into gel posted with the 200 gr Swift A-Frame, both Federal load and my own load. If I were actually likely to encounter bears, I think that's what I'd choose. Goes deep and even at the slow Federal speed (~1000 fps) it expanded like it advertises.
Over penetration, and what lies beyond your target, is a big concern with the 10mm auto when used for self defense against humans. Personally, I’ve never considered my G20 as a CCW; but what you choose to carry is 100% your call. To answer your question, a 180 gr jacketed hollow point at standard(not +P) velocity should serve you well. Peace
UW 200gr XTP or UW XD. These have consistently penetrated 16 to 18 inches in real organic gel. NM the fact that synthetic clear gel lets them penetrate further than that, because clear gel doesn't behave the same way as the brown stuff. When the FBI set the standards in the '80s, they didn't set a real standard for overpenetration. They tentatively said 18 in, but only because they didn't think penetration beyond that would correspond to real thicknesses of real human torsos and so it wouldn't be worth scoring anything beyond that. But they did NOT call penetration beyond that disqualifying overpenetration. They didn't assign it negative points. They actually said the ideal was to get as close to that upper number as possible.
Oh cmon man lol. Hard cast ammunition is just fine for bear defense and has been used in documented cases of bear defense. Both buffalo bore and underwood make great hard cast bear defense rounds in 220gr. Underwood has a cherry coating so it’s not so rough on Glock barrels
I don’t know what lead bullets you tested but they were not Hardcast lead bullets. The Underwood 200gr and 220gr Hardcast is very popular in Alaska for big bear protection in the 10mm. It’s the go to round in my house in G20.
They are hard cast bullets. They are the HSM hardcast Bear load and the Federal hardcast coated Bear load. Underwood is really awesome! They Also have a new similar round to the Buffalo bore called Extreme hunter. Granted the test was on ar500 steel not the same as something like a bear, but I was still shocked by the results. Also I failed to say it on the video but I would definitely and have run Underwood hardcasts for woods protection as well.
That's some kind of soft flimsy "hard cast." I've seen hard cast 325gr slugs shot from a 20" carbine in .454 Casull decimate a bunch of water jugs at closer range and at far higher velocity than typical handguns and only slightly enlarge/mushroom. I guess if a bear has a bunch of heavy porcelain bones in the way, you might have to be concerned.
If i can’t carry a 10 I carry a VERY high capacity 9mm with nasty HP because regardless of what it is nothing likes getting shot 20 times. Still would Rather have my g20
Bears in his neighborhood are wearing ar500 steel plate. Is he purposely full on bear excrement or is he totally ignorant of difference between steel vs live animal
Chuke mentioned his buddy had to shoot a bear 2x (headshots to dispatch wounded bear) with those penetrators and recommended hardcast due to the erratic pathways that penetrators seem to follow, steel plates and dangerous game flesh are not the same
That sounds like the extreme penetrator from Underwood which is totally different than the dangerous game from Buffalo Bore. But at the same point I did fail to mention in that video that I do really love the Underwood coated hardcast ammo as well for bear protection.
The 10mm is the MINIMUM round for bear defense. You guys have never been around Alaskan grizzlies. Large bore magnums, large bore rifles, and 12 gauge shotguns is what everyone uses to stop bears. 10mm is backup. I carry my 10mm in woods around town, then on real hiking trips I carry a 45/70
I live in Alaska & while i agree with you i also disagree. People around here have killed Grizzlies with far less then .10mm for 50 + years. Although not wise its been done with .9mm & .357 Magnum & other smaller calibers as well. Trust me alot of people have been to Alaska & seen bears. Big bore Revolvers can also get you mauled to death if your one who doesn't shoot regularly & you miss you shots due to recoil.
No, what you're saying is incorrect. 10mm isn't that underpowered compared to .44 Magnum. And .44 is plenty enough to take down a bear even a grizzly. The quick follow up shots from a semi auto 10mm pistol more than makes up for the slightly underpowered stats All you have to do to use 10mm or even a smaller round effectively against aggressive bears is to train shot placement, defensive shooting and train to react under stressful situations (like a charging bear). Unloading a 10mm Glock mag will stop any charging grizzly I have extensive experience with .44 magnum (with carbines instead of revolvers) and it's my favorite handgun round. It's definitely enough to take down a grizzly imo
Hard cast 10mm ammo especially Underwood ammo is still a good option. But after seeing the results of this ammo test on steel and seeing that it not only hits harder than the hardcast ammo but it doesn't break apart means it will do serious damage to bones and vitals.
Nah, go 200 or 220 gr hardcast against mid-size critters. They provide you consistent deep penetration, for reliable exit wounds in the beasties. Solid coppers, being less dense, require longer bullet shafts in order to try to reach a given load weight. Lehigh and BB could only go up to 190 gr with their Monometal bullet because it was already so big, and it didn't leave much powder capacity behind to keep the velocity up high if they went any heavier/bigger, and it experienced high bearing drag because of all the side surface area. It's maxed out for what it is, but hardcast can still do it better for less money. 190 gr, being lighter, doesn't have as much momentum or inertia as heavier lead rounds. So it doesn't punch through as hard, or penetrate as deeply as they do. BB MM is a decent hunting round if you're banned from lead, but it's an overpriced novelty for the rest of us. It doesn't matter what they look like when hitting steel plates. The video was supposed to be about shooting dangerous animals in the woods--not plates on the range. But hey, if you care about your bullets going through beauty pageants after you fire them, by all means...
check the couple of vids I have posted of Swift A-Frame 200gr. If I believed a bear encounter were possible, that's certainly what I'd be loaded up with.
Hard cast ammo is definitely a good defense against dangerous game. What I meant is that I was super impressed that the buffalo bore dangerous game ammo was impressive because it would do serious damage if hitting bone because it does not shatter in to multiple pieces but flattens out and tears through destroying everything in its path.
9mm for the hood. 10mm for the woods.
@user-wr6nl8kl6c Have you been attacked by large predators or prey like grizzlies or bull moose and used 9mm on them successfully? I don't live in a state that has those, but I'd be wary of using 9mm on large non-human threats like that.
@@affablesage9582 You didn't read or understand my comment. 9mm for the streets and 10mm for the woods. A 10mm round is a bear stopper.
@@Duskyming160he literally wasn’t even talking to you he was talking to the dummy that says he uses a 9mm against grizzlies lmao
@@user-wr6nl8kl6cwell
Yeah
There are documented cases of a 22 air rifle being used to kill grizzlies. Does that mean its my go to? Absolutely not lol.
I carry a 9mm with the heaviest ammunition i can get my hands on in the woods, but only because I havent purchased a 10 yet.
Yes it does work, and yes there are more instances of bears being killed with a 9mm, but there are also a lot more where the user was killed.
A 9mm CAN work, doesnt mean its the best caliber to carry. Everything a 9 can do a 10 does better.
10mm for edc
Bad info to try to sell a product. A true hard cast will not break up like unless your ringing steel. You will get significantly more penetration and weight retention with a hard cast.
A lot of people in here have no idea how big a brown bear is lmao
No mention of what target was hit with those. Certainly, it wasn't a bear.
Steel, hardcast does not break apart on bone.
I use .22 for bear defense 😤
Spit wads.
Same 😁
Of course! It’ll go in and ricochet everywhere.😮
@@chriswigington1572heck yea boy, and .17 super mag as backup😂
Wimps. I use a pocket knife my daughter got me that says "dad."
Not really a good comparison here. Hard cast has proven itself over many decades with well established guides in Alaska.
I guess bears are wearing steel plates now?
Who knows now days!🤣😂
@@9MilRidge
You missed the point. The bullets you're presenting impacted "steel plates", not actual flesh and bone. Big difference.
@@MaddJapp73I think you missed the point bud
They’re about at equivalent…
Steel is definitely different than a bear, but if I’m in bear country I’m not going to think about how much money I saved by going for the less expensive ammo. Yes, I’ll spend the cash to buy a single box of buffalo bore for a bear walk
Thank you for posting the video. Buffalo Bore makes fine ammunition. However, plate steel is not flesh and bone and hard cast, flat point should not be discounted as bear defense ammunition in the 10mm auto. In February of 2020 I took a 190# boar. The specifics are as follows:
Weapon: Glock 20, Gen 4, 6” KKM Match barrel, Burris Fastfire 3 RMR
Ammunition: Underwood 200gr flat nose coated hard cast
MV: 1290 fps(measured)
ME: 739 foot pounds(calculated)
Range: 37 yards
Target Aspect: Facing
Impact: About an inch below, nasal side of left eye
Exit: Right ham, destroyed pelvis prior to exit
Complete pass through - about 4 ft
I really don’t think my bullet flattened out on impact on a tough animal.
Hard cast is my choice for bear defense; but whatever you choose, choose wisely.
Well said. They simply wouldn’t make the FN hardcast loaded to those specs for anything OTHER than pure obliteration of whatver you spit those pills at. I 2nd Buffalo bore
What are you talking about?@@Lot-O-Guns
@@RobertHall-ef8yf I said they wouldn’t make FN (Flat Nose) hardcast rounds loaded to those spec (1290fps , 739Ft-Lbs) for anything other than obliterating a target. Flat nose does more damage than a traditional rounded FMJ && I said I 2nd Buffalo bore as in they have some great stuff.
I've wondered about the hardcast stuff ? Thanks bub ! 👍🇺🇸
In the woods a 10mm carrys Chuck Norris for dangerous game!
🤣😅
good thing you said this, strange nobodies ever mentioned this.
I have in my magazines 10mm buffalo bore bear load 220 gr hard cast
The other rounds ive carried are 200 gr hard cast by BB
All great options!
Have you ever been walking through the city and wondered what 10 mm ammo to use 135 155 or 180
What was the test media used, what did u shoot it into? And what are the other 2 brands?
And just to think how our ancestors did it with sharp sticks 🤔
Buffalo bore 10mm hard cast outdoorsman
That's a really good one! Over 700 ft pounds of energy and 1200 ft per second!
@9MilRidge Yes, sir. That's what my brother told me to go with. That's what he runs in his Taurus hunter revolver 6inch .357. When his out camping in NC. I purchased a rock island tac ultra fshc 10mm dubble stack. Cause I'd rather have 15 round of 10mm hard cast Buffalo bore than 6 rounds of it. .357 Buffalo bore hard cast is only has 125 fps and 40 ft of muzzle energy than 10mm. I'd rather have capacity
Will do!
an option I don't see often discussed and specifically for bear and what I'd choose are the Swift A-Frame bullets. Federal's (slow) load, or hand load, they penetrate quite deep 18-22" in clear gel and expand like they advertise.
FYI - I have a couple of vids posted of the shots into gel.
What about that extreme penetrator stuff?
Anything you hit steel with, is gonna turn to mush, but 200-220 grain hardcast doesn't fall apart in heavy bone, and tissue. Buffalo bore 21c has been around a long time, and the gold standard for dangerous game.
What do you think about "extream hunter" from (underwood) it's monolithic over 1400fps I believe 180 grains. (10mm) I run sig v crowns and American gunner XTP. For home defense.
It's good stuff, if you shoot it a lot you may have to switch out your guide rod spring for a stiffer spring. Also if you thinking of using it for woods defense over all I think the Buffalo Bore hard cast 200 grain or the 180 monolithic are a better option or the coated hard cast 200 or 220 grain Underwood.
The Buffalo Bore expansion was beautiful. But, did it penetrate at least three feet before “dumping “ all its energy!? I don’t want to shoot a grizzly with a slug 🐌 that expands on fat but fails to reach the bone 🦴
I have a couple of vids into gel posted with the 200 gr Swift A-Frame, both Federal load and my own load. If I were actually likely to encounter bears, I think that's what I'd choose. Goes deep and even at the slow Federal speed (~1000 fps) it expanded like it advertises.
What’s the best 10mm ammo for self defense against humans?
A 9mm is just fine 😂
@@Ffhjghtf1000 got two 9mm’s G19 G26 just bought a FN510 MRD chambered in 10mm auto so I was asking about 10mm bullets
@@Crossdariver504 oh my bad king all love
Over penetration, and what lies beyond your target, is a big concern with the 10mm auto when used for self defense against humans. Personally, I’ve never considered my G20 as a CCW; but what you choose to carry is 100% your call. To answer your question, a 180 gr jacketed hollow point at standard(not +P) velocity should serve you well. Peace
UW 200gr XTP or UW XD. These have consistently penetrated 16 to 18 inches in real organic gel. NM the fact that synthetic clear gel lets them penetrate further than that, because clear gel doesn't behave the same way as the brown stuff.
When the FBI set the standards in the '80s, they didn't set a real standard for overpenetration. They tentatively said 18 in, but only because they didn't think penetration beyond that would correspond to real thicknesses of real human torsos and so it wouldn't be worth scoring anything beyond that. But they did NOT call penetration beyond that disqualifying overpenetration. They didn't assign it negative points. They actually said the ideal was to get as close to that upper number as possible.
I use .177 for a bear . Pew pee
Oh cmon man lol. Hard cast ammunition is just fine for bear defense and has been used in documented cases of bear defense. Both buffalo bore and underwood make great hard cast bear defense rounds in 220gr. Underwood has a cherry coating so it’s not so rough on Glock barrels
I don’t know what lead bullets you tested but they were not Hardcast lead bullets.
The Underwood 200gr and 220gr Hardcast is very popular in Alaska for big bear protection in the 10mm. It’s the go to round in my house in G20.
They are hard cast bullets. They are the HSM hardcast Bear load and the Federal hardcast coated Bear load. Underwood is really awesome! They Also have a new similar round to the Buffalo bore called Extreme hunter. Granted the test was on ar500 steel not the same as something like a bear, but I was still shocked by the results. Also I failed to say it on the video but I would definitely and have run Underwood hardcasts for woods protection as well.
Lol, your a complete smooth brain.@@9MilRidge
180 grn does the job
I've always wondered FMJs would be better against a bear than JHPs cuzza their thick coats, hides, & skull
That's some kind of soft flimsy "hard cast." I've seen hard cast 325gr slugs shot from a 20" carbine in .454 Casull decimate a bunch of water jugs at closer range and at far higher velocity than typical handguns and only slightly enlarge/mushroom. I guess if a bear has a bunch of heavy porcelain bones in the way, you might have to be concerned.
He shot them at steel plates
Go find me one nonmilitary caliber that can hit a steel plate without deformation lol
@@darthvader6533 The video doesn't provide any context whatsoever.
If i can’t carry a 10 I carry a VERY high capacity 9mm with nasty HP because regardless of what it is nothing likes getting shot 20 times. Still would
Rather have my g20
Bears in his neighborhood are wearing ar500 steel plate. Is he purposely full on bear excrement or is he totally ignorant of difference between steel vs live animal
Chuke mentioned his buddy had to shoot a bear 2x (headshots to dispatch wounded bear) with those penetrators and recommended hardcast due to the erratic pathways that penetrators seem to follow, steel plates and dangerous game flesh are not the same
That sounds like the extreme penetrator from Underwood which is totally different than the dangerous game from Buffalo Bore. But at the same point I did fail to mention in that video that I do really love the Underwood coated hardcast ammo as well for bear protection.
What video did he mention that in?
Lol hard cast is better in pretty much every way on flesh than the mono metal stuff LOL
The 10mm is the MINIMUM round for bear defense. You guys have never been around Alaskan grizzlies. Large bore magnums, large bore rifles, and 12 gauge shotguns is what everyone uses to stop bears. 10mm is backup. I carry my 10mm in woods around town, then on real hiking trips I carry a 45/70
I live in Alaska & while i agree with you i also disagree. People around here have killed Grizzlies with far less then .10mm for 50 + years. Although not wise its been done with .9mm & .357 Magnum & other smaller calibers as well. Trust me alot of people have been to Alaska & seen bears. Big bore Revolvers can also get you mauled to death if your one who doesn't shoot regularly & you miss you shots due to recoil.
No, what you're saying is incorrect. 10mm isn't that underpowered compared to .44 Magnum.
And .44 is plenty enough to take down a bear even a grizzly. The quick follow up shots from a semi auto 10mm pistol more than makes up for the slightly underpowered stats
All you have to do to use 10mm or even a smaller round effectively against aggressive bears is to train shot placement, defensive shooting and train to react under stressful situations (like a charging bear). Unloading a 10mm Glock mag will stop any charging grizzly
I have extensive experience with .44 magnum (with carbines instead of revolvers) and it's my favorite handgun round. It's definitely enough to take down a grizzly imo
@@MybeautifulandamazingPrincess agreed.
Fmj
Man I’m so confused now I just watched a 10 min video with hard castings being the best then this guy says the exact opposite what do I do 😂
Hard cast 10mm ammo especially Underwood ammo is still a good option. But after seeing the results of this ammo test on steel and seeing that it not only hits harder than the hardcast ammo but it doesn't break apart means it will do serious damage to bones and vitals.
right on did you record a video with the shots on the steel? Id like that watch that@@9MilRidge
ruclips.net/video/G3W-uSOC0kY/видео.htmlfeature=shared I discovered it while doing ammo testing in this video.
Nah, go 200 or 220 gr hardcast against mid-size critters. They provide you consistent deep penetration, for reliable exit wounds in the beasties.
Solid coppers, being less dense, require longer bullet shafts in order to try to reach a given load weight. Lehigh and BB could only go up to 190 gr with their Monometal bullet because it was already so big, and it didn't leave much powder capacity behind to keep the velocity up high if they went any heavier/bigger, and it experienced high bearing drag because of all the side surface area. It's maxed out for what it is, but hardcast can still do it better for less money.
190 gr, being lighter, doesn't have as much momentum or inertia as heavier lead rounds. So it doesn't punch through as hard, or penetrate as deeply as they do.
BB MM is a decent hunting round if you're banned from lead, but it's an overpriced novelty for the rest of us.
It doesn't matter what they look like when hitting steel plates. The video was supposed to be about shooting dangerous animals in the woods--not plates on the range.
But hey, if you care about your bullets going through beauty pageants after you fire them, by all means...
check the couple of vids I have posted of Swift A-Frame 200gr. If I believed a bear encounter were possible, that's certainly what I'd be loaded up with.
Just curious if you've ever encountered/hunted bear, and that you've actually taken bear with a 10mm?
I use underwood extreme penetrators and there hard coated hard cast. The extreme penetrators have better ballistics than the dangerous game
Some that probably never hunted bear , or used a 10mm for them giving advice on beat loads. 😂🤣😅🤣😂
g9 everytime
Guess those hard cast are doing nothing against bear now huh? They wearing level 3 rated steel plate
Hard cast ammo is definitely a good defense against dangerous game. What I meant is that I was super impressed that the buffalo bore dangerous game ammo was impressive because it would do serious damage if hitting bone because it does not shatter in to multiple pieces but flattens out and tears through destroying everything in its path.