The more I learn about different high-demand religions, the more I understand the similarity with being in an abusive relationship. You love this faith, everyone you are close to loves this faith. I loved my husband, and in the beginning loved how he loved me!! My family only saw the good parts of our relationship, so they loved him too!! When you are in a high-demand relationship you find yourself getting smaller and smaller to ensure you fit in the box!! I found that as time went on I twisted myself into a pretzel to please and ensure I followed all the rules to keep my house calm!! Those who know us and live on the outside can see what is going on, they try to show us the truth, but they don't understand how devasting accepting this truth will be to the survivors. We have to stop asking why they stay in these unhealthy relationships but why do those in positions of power abuse!! When outsiders say things like "I would never put up with that", or "She could have left at any time" all they do is add to the shame the victim is feeling and put all the responsibility on them and none on those who were abusing!! People need to understand those trapped in these types of relationships are stuck in a prison of the mind. Thank you so much for sharing Megan!!!
Watching on replay. Just in about 20 seconds and wanted to share my feelings of camaraderie of the whole unworthiness trauma. I understand. I am also so amazed at finding you and your channels. Thank you for helping me in this journey of healing. ❤
Three MORE questions: 1) How many children were baptized after they denounced their own parents during the policy? 2) Why did Elohim change his mind so quickly (since both the policy and the flip-flop were touted as revelations)? 3) Any financial violations using church funds REQUIRE a disciplinary council--so when did this occur for those responsible for the $5M fine? THANK YOU for speaking up Megan--especially when it's not easy!
1- probably none 2- I’ve got nothing on this one. Can’t even come up with a sarcastic reason. 3- these dudes have all been second anointed so nothing is a sin for them
@@Third_Verse Let's say Kolob is the NEAREST star to us...(extremely unlikely out of the billions of stars, but) that's 4.2 light years away. If a transmission from Kolob came at the speed of light, that means Elohim would have sent the change to his policy before we even received the first revelation to ban baptisms unless children denounced their parents. It's spiritual/emotional/mental abuse at best.
@@thelastgoonie6555 3) if a ward clerk gets caught pocketing $1 of “sacred tithing funds” he’s immediately disciplined, and the gossip mill chews him up. “Steal a little and they throw you in jail. Steal a lot and they make you king.” (Or in some cases they make you president.)
@@william_mac the entire video is nonsense. there are no questions that "terrify" leaders of the l.d.s. church. there are many they ignore, because they have no obligation to answer.
The church keeps extremely accurate, world-wide sacrament meeting attendance records; which is how Ward budgets are determined. But is that public information? No! Which is more forthright and reliable? Membership or attendance? 🤔
😅 the secretary pads those numbers AND includes anyone who had been baptized even if they hadn't attended in a decade and left the church. They count me and I'm loud about my exmormon status. The leadership are the most dishonest of humanity. I wouldn't believe a single line they utter because it's all for hoarding more for the Latter-day Golden calf
@@tylerboyce6502, i was Finance Clerk for a few years. You get about $2/adult each week. Never figured out how to set a budget. I just submitted expenses and issued reimbursements 😆
If you notice closely, the tithing slip (both physical and electronic) states, “that while reasonable efforts will be made to use funds for preferred use, the Church reserves the right to use funds where needed.”
@@jacobmcneal3011 That's exactly the comment I was going to make. Designating your donation as "Humanitarian Fund" may make you feel better about it, if you're troubled about the way tithing is handled. It doesn't guarantee that your money won't go into the rest of the trillion dollar slush fund to pay for the million dollar "recruitment loan", or to build shopping centers, or to buy land for a 500,000 home community in Florida, or whatever their corrupt little hearts desire.
Larryofoz Ya I think it was President hinckly or an older leader a couple decades ago I read said they push agriculture cause it’s a slow long term investment. The church also used to have lots of non profit farms. It’s sad to see them get rid of non profit farms or just rent it out when they could be still using it for charity.
And ya the church developing the ranch in Florida is a joke. It’s sad. Like why don’t Democrat members or environmentalists push for it to be a national park or do a land swap for public land in Utah? Literally a 250,000 acre ranch in Florida is rare and needed for wildlife habitat whereas land in the west has lots of conservation areas. Ranches back east need to be made into parks not made into condos.
I was a convert and left Mormon Church in my 20s. Now I belong to a mainline Protestant Church. The major difference is that my current church/denomination doesn't shame me for who I am (a gay man). I don't have to pay to go to heaven. I am not asked to "obey" so I can go to the celestial kingdom. People in my current church donate money because they truly believe the money will go to those who need it the most (church finance is transparent and held accountable). They volunteer and do community work because they truly want to make others happy, not because they are afraid of going to hell or make themselves happy. There's no culture of fear and shame. It's all about following the examples of Jesus. It's such a joke that Mormon Church claims it's the only true church on earth. What Mormons do aren't Christian at all.
Thank you for your clear explanation about the financial situation. It's interesting how god is directing the specific heights of temple steeples but has no directions in regards to the money needed to build them.
Thank you Megan! We should all get over the fear of speaking up. Especially when we have that strong feeling of inspiration from The Spirit to do so! If women were more involved in administration, many policies would have been amended already.
I think that the first teaching of the church is how to communicate with God, and let him lead your life. I too have had things go wrong in my life., church leaders who were less than inspired. But that never could touch me because I had a witness of God's love for me. The Temple and the many other programs are to strengthen us and help us grow. My heart was broken when my wife would not live up to our marriage covenant (love honor and cherish). But after a time, I have been healed. Your path may be different, but take the matter to "the Man of holiness" and listen to what He tells you.
Good for you for waking up and taking your blinders off. It’s hard at first but then it is so liberating to learn all of the manipulation the church uses. The best part for me is no longer feeling constant guilt, anxiety and feelings of not measuring up. I have so much peace and happiness in my life now.
Thank you for being open and honest about your experience. I would point out that your ex-husband may have been the wiser one. But also, LDS leaders are religious addicts. Their entire mindset is to placate a rigid, demanding (and I might add arbitrary) God. Their understanding of God's love is "He loves us IF..." They don't CARE what LDS teachings and practices do to mere members, who exist only to further placate this rigid, conditionally loving God. I'm not claiming other sects and subcultures are dramatically different or better. But once we lower our expectations, we can get on with our lives... either find a kinder, gentler community of believers, or stay in TCOJCOLDS but know we're going to get bashed periodically. They don't know what they're doing but fully believe going thru enough temple sessions is a substitute for real religion.
You sound like a wonderful person. I'm sorry about some of your Terrible experiences and little guidance. I just learnt to be me (it was 22 years of full activity for me too). I still go to church, but only when I want. I agree with you what you spoke (im lds (ish) in regional South Australia 🇦🇺). I also have lots of single mum friends. I love you because you your honesty with your experience. Yes I agree especially with the organisation side. Also I have seen and met christ (out of my body) since I was 6 years old (im now 44). Please keep searching christ and your personal relationship with him. It benefited me greatly, better than knowing the church. Another interesting thing to search at the moment is chief midegah of the ojibwe nation. Quite an interesting situation and very similar to your experiences. He's following his native America routes, but has more records than the church, a huge native American meeting is happening this year to challenge the church.
Please note that on the bottom of the Tithing donation slip in fine print is a disclaimer that says the church can use any of the donations as they determine. The categories do not matter except the Fast Offering which stays with the Stake UNLESS it is a large amount not being used which SLC then requires to be turned over. Monies donated to a Ward are not safely retained there.
I’m sorry you have had such a painful experience in religion. I have had many questions about faith and church as well. I’m also a member of what some would consider a high demand religion. What really changed my perspective and relationship with my church in general was the realization that my relationship with Jesus is like a marriage. He continually loves me and just because I sometimes fail does not mean we are divorced. Rather is means I just failed Him and our relationship, but like a marriage, we work together to continue to improve the relationship. This approach has really helped my walk with Christ and my approach to church interactions.
I think that the original November 15 policy stated that children of gay/lesbian couples could not be baptized until age of 18 and then only if they renounced their parents mirroring the polygamy policy. In any case it is a policy contrary to scripture and doctrine.
Excellent video. Very much like my journy. I love the members not the new doctrine and elite lds leaders financially supporting government entities not a fan.
Interesting, but you clearly have longstanding issues that you are attempting to deal with. Having been an auditor for my stake, l was amazed at the amount of money given freely to both members and nonmembers for rent, medical care, car expenses etc. This was the case before and after any special declaration to help the poor.
Yes of course I have longstanding issues that I’m attempting to deal with… I was a faithful member for 40 years. I am still processing the betrayal of being lied to by people I was taught to trust with my eternal salvation…
Money is a necessary part of life 🤷🏼♀️. Making financial investments is always wise, whether you’re a church or an individual. They teach classes on financial self-reliance; if everyone took those classes and lived by the principles taught there would be way less poverty. They also provide worldwide education opportunities, and the tuition is based on where you live. So people in poorer countries pay way less for their degree/certificate. Maybe try one episode where you focus on the good. If I invest my money wisely I can help MORE people. Think about that concept…
I have a book from one of those classes. While many of the principles are sound, the first one - the one that is repeatedly emphasized the most - is not fundimentally sound. Any guesses as to what principle #1 is in the talk/lesson? I'll give you a hint: It wasn't defined in the modern sense until about 1899. When it was defined in this manner, all bishops in the church (formerly paid for life) were changed to an unpaid 5 year tenure.
I could do an episode where I focus on the good. It would be very short if I didn't also include the harm done by those things that are good for some but not all. And yes, I agree that investing money is wise. But if you are investing money being paid by members, you have a fiduciary responsibility to disclose to the members what is being done with the money, and you have a moral obligation to be honest with the government and follow the law when doing so. If a member 'invested wisely' and did the same illegal things done in this case by the church leadership, that member would be denied a temple recommend for not being honest in all of their dealings with their fellowmen, in this case, the IRS.
@@readerreader6703 Tithing as defined within the LDS church didn't have its modern definition and emphasis until 1899. It was changed in order to increase revenue to deal with church debt issues. At the same time, salaries for Bishops and Stake Presidents (previously 8% and 2% of tithing revenue) were eliminated. Currently the LDS church teaches that the #1 step for getting out of debt is to pay 10% of your income to the church. While the other recommendations (budgeting, eliminating waste, etc) are sound, this first principle (tithing) is not sound from a personal finance perspective and is self-serving. Quinn argued that the church should make exceptions for the truely poor who cannot feed their families and I agree.
Now first an example. Out in Elberta Utah is a church welfare farm. It produces milk and meat for the church welfare projects. They hire many people to work on these farms. When we first lived there they received a salary plus free housing, milk and beef. Then one day the IRS comes in and says no, the workers have to count their housing as part of their income. So they had to raise everyone's salary and then charge rent for their housing. The same applies to the Prophet. He has an apartment with security. He has to figure out the value of that, add it to his income and then pay the taxes on it. If the church did not pay him a stipend he would still have to pay the taxes on it and very quickly be bankrupt. The money he is paid does not come from tithing funds but from church owned businesses.
"If the church did not pay him a stipend he would still have to pay the taxes on it and very quickly be bankrupt." I'm going to push back on your logic and financial calculations. If the housing were his only compensation, he could easily afford the taxes if he was wisely investing the $1,000,000 'loan' that he was given upon being appointed a GA. Also "church owned businesses" is a problem for me. It's a corporation first and foremost.
@Third_Verse Because it has to be in today's world. I knew the Church was a Coorporation years ago. So what? The Church does its best to operate for the benefit of all. And people are human. ..The President and GA's need to be taken care of financially. They give ALL of their time in matters of the Church. They shouldn't have to worry about how they are going to pay their bills or taxes.
@@shadowgirl8038 Even at the beginning they had to have legal papers drawn up to be recognized by the state, that's what April 6th was all about. After Joseph died there was an argument between Young and Emma over what property belonged to the church and what belonged to her because it was all in Joseph's name. Later after Young died they again had to separate the property, they had been hiding properties from the US government who was trying to confiscate it. So when they became a legal corporation I'm not sure, but we can see the need. However the prophet's real title is found in D&C 107: 65 Wherefore, it must needs be that one be appointed of the High Priesthood to preside over the priesthood, and he shall be called President of the High Priesthood of the Church; 66 Or, in other words, the Presiding High Priest over the High Priesthood of the Church.
Are you sure the 2015 policy allowed for 8 year olds to disavow their gay parents lifestyle in order to get baptized? This is the first time I am hearing this. While I no longer believe, I actually thought the 2015 policy was a good idea, because it did NOT pit children against parents.
Just reading the gospel topic essays will undoubtedly cause your shelf to come crashing down. Tread carefully and you will find the truth outside of the Mormon Church.
Christ said, “ To Leave, all that you have and follow him” Not Religions, that ‘rubber stamp’ His Holy name on their church’s, their buildings, their name tags and letterhead! The Church is NOT Jesus Christ !!!, we are to LEAVE! and follow Him Only!!
I dont think the church ever said there are 17 million 'active' members just that there are 17 million people who have been baptized and names are on the rolls. Unlike other churches we don't drop people off the rolls for inactivity, the Lord's hand is always out stretched. Really fully active members runs about 40%, then there are those who consider themselves members, like my own daughter, but don't attend much. And of course, those who were baptized as a child and never been back. About 40% of those who leave the church eventually return.
I'm going to push back on your 40% return statistic. Do you have a source for that? To address your first point, the statistical report doesn't mention any qualifications on the membership numbers. They simply state that there are 17 million members of record. If they truly wished to be transparent, they would also include the number of members actively attending.
@@Third_Verse This is not the source of the 40% but I remember it was a poll of all denominations and I read it in a rebuttal to an article in the Tribune, I'll keep looking. Also in my search I've learned this statistic thrown out there of 40% of all returning missionaries leave the church is a fake number, something just pulled out of the air. There is no way of really knowing. One article said it was 40% of those sent home early from their missions, which makes more sense. Both Don Bradley and Maxine Hanks have returned which is a big deal. There's an article written by non Mormon Ian Harber, Oct 12, 2023 called 10 Facts about the Millions of People Who Have Left the Church (all churches) 6. Sixty-two percent of people who have dechurched still believe that Jesus is the only way to God. 7, Fifty-one percent of people who have dechurched are willing to go back to church. Here's a poll from Gallup "Among major U.S. religious groups, members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints,..are the most observant, with two-thirds attending church weekly or nearly weekly. ... Mormon adults show no meaningful change in church attendance compared with 2000-2003, but they did report higher attendance in 2011-2013 than they do now." In the Salt Lake Tribune I found this which surprised me. "The activity rate within the "Mormon Corridor” at 71% and 65% for those without." I wouldn't think it would be that high. Perhaps you just haven't experienced seeing people coming and going as often as an old lady like me has seen. It used to be people went quietly, unless they went on the anti Mormon circuit, now all the young people think they need to make a big splash to get attention. There's nothing new in what the claims are, most are just repeats from old anti Mormon pamphlets. What is new is wokeism and looking through the lens of victimhood.
Mmm I'm going to look at some of your questions. I think you misunderstood, they did not require any 8 year old to denounce their parents, they wanted the child to wait until they were 18 then they could decide to be baptized. The whole purpose of it was not to come between the parent and child, the opposite of what you said. Here is the statement on the reversal of the ban. "With the change, children of gay parents can now be baptized as long as their parents approve the baptisms and acknowledge that the children will be taught church doctrine, the church said in a statement from its highest leadership group called the First Presidency." There was a legal problem. At the time the church was grappling with all the legal problems they might run into across the world and not just in America with gay marriage. In some countries the laws says if you perform marriages you must preform them for everyone, you can not discriminate. The bride and groom have to go to a court first to be married civilly then go to the temple to be sealed. Apparently there was a theorized legal problem that if a child was baptized, then perhaps later there could be a law suit over the church teaching the child that his parents life style was a sin, thus coming between the parent and child.(Actually I've never heard that taught in a class, it's just a give) There was also the problem of devorce, a number of gay people have been married, that's why they have children. One parent will want to baptize their child the other won't. So what was the church to do? They worked out the legal problems with each parent acknowledging church doctrine and approving of the baptism. I believe it's an actual legal document they sign. I hope that clears things up for you.
MORMON LEADERSHIP DOES NOT TRUST THE GENERAL MEMBERSHIP, SO WHY SHOULD YOU TRUST NELSON , OR THE APOSTLES, OR ANY OTHER LEADER WHO DOES NOT TRUST YOU ????? TRUST IS A TWO WAY STREET IN HUMAN RELATIONS. TRUST ONLY THE LORD !!!!!
@@MrBillmechanic Boyd K Packer’s “not all truths are useful,” and Dallin H Oaks’ “it’s wrong to criticize leaders of the Church, even if the criticism is true,” were the turning point for me in allowing myself to think differently and look outside the so-called faithful resources. These apostolic teachings were just so blatantly false and incongruent with Christ’s teachings and example. I’m still very careful with resources. Year of Polygamy, Sunstone Mormon History Podcast, Radio Free Mormon, and Matt Harris’ work on the race ban have all demonstrated as objectively as possible the history that the Church actively hid for decades. But if that’s not enough, the recent SEC violations (I do federal reporting for a living, so I know for a fact there is an issue here) and sexual assault reporting misconduct give direct insight into the ongoing issues with leadership integrity. There is simply no basis for trust with these men as a collective.
What do you mean by your authentic self? Do you mean what Paul called "the inward man" or "as a man thinketh in his heart so is he"? The soul is often referred to symbolically as your heart. Jesus said; Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God. Joseph Smith taught that this inner being, your intelligence, is uncreated and the basic part of who your authentic self is. Are you being true to it or have you created some other kind of reality?
My Authentic Self refers to the concept of accepting all of the parts of myself and healing those that are wounded or dysfunctional. If God created me, then he created all of the parts of me. Should I feel shame for the way I was created? Living authentically includes not trying to fit myself into a box of someone else's making but allowing myself to not fit and to not feel shame that I don't fit. All boxes are man made. I'm not sure what you mean by 'uncreated' I never came across that in my study...
@@Third_Verse My small crisis of faith came from being confronted by Evangelical friends who kept telling me Mormonism was un-biblical. So I had to learn the difference between our doctrine and theirs and then study the Bible. After doing so I became a much better Mormon. They believed in something from nothing, they say God created everything right down to the last atom. Thus you are a created being meaning, you didn't exist and then you did. If one follows that train of thought it means God created Satan and since he knows the end from the beginning God knowingly created pure evil. Joseph Smith taught that your soul or intelligence is uncreated, it has always existed. God takes these souls and places them in spirit matter thus making him the Father of Spirits, see Heb 12. In Abraham 3 he sees the intelligence before the world was and is told "they were good", so your goodness or lack thereof is innate and not something created. The soul seems to have an innate gender, personality and will of its own, at least that is my understanding. Our line of thought leads to, did our Heaven Father knowingly give Satan a platform to express his innate evil and darkness? My feeling is yes, because we need "opposition in all things" to grow, to become like God knowing good from evil. Each of us has both light and darkness in our innate authentic and eternal selfs. Our Heavenly Father is trying to help rid us of the darkness and fill us with his light so we can comprehend all things, see D&C 88:67. Obviously you were part of those souls who have an innate goodness or you wouldn't have been given a body. Are you being true to your authentic eternal self or have you accepted a worldly view of who you are?
@@Third_Verse A year ago my youngest son passed away from cancer. My hand on his heart and felt it come to a stop. At that moment I felt the promised comforter come into my heart, that is the real spirit of peace.
Hi @whizwhitney thanks for stopping by! If you click on …more under the video descriptions, you can see the transcript and scroll through to find the questions. I felt the need to give some background information before addressing the questions.
And yet here you are ripping on the LDS Church. Think of the amazing things you could accomplish in your life for you and your kids if you put as much time and effort into your new faith or other aspects of your life, instead of making it your mission to tear down another faith. ..... Also... I have spent a great amount of time researching negative things and accusations about the Church. I look at both sides. Some of it I found to be flat out Bull Cookies. Much of it I found, that for every piece of "evidence" from the negative, there was equal evidence to dispute it. What little I found to be true were actions of flawed humans. Just because humans mess up, doesnt mean the Church itself isnt true....
Is the church transparent with it's finances or isn't it? Did the church use funds which were donated to it by poor as well as rich members to construct a luxury mall right next to its temple? What is the "other side" of those issues?
So you're basically saying the church has moved away from God&Jesus Christ...no wonder the church is in trouble ...if this is true, God&Jesus Christ have removed their presence and their authority from the church itself...this is definitely not good at all...no one has the authority to change what God has put in place...
Why aren't you "acting under the advice" of God? That's what i would do if these type of situations bothered me. The church paid the fine.. what they did, being "unethical" is your opinion and that is what you should try to prove. I'm not even sure what the 3 things were 😅
Generally breaking the law is considered unethical... that's not based on an opinion, it's based on verifiable facts. Does the fact that they paid the fine excuse their actions?
@@Third_Verse that's not how we adjudicate here in the great USofA. Oh, you killed a man? INSTANT JAIL?! NO OF COURSE NOT! What if it was self defense? A freak accident? Or not even your fault...? Etc. I for one have a testimony of GOD and trust that the church is trying it's best to do good. (The Lords will)
@@Third_Verse they are not obligated to "answer" anymore than anyone else is obligated to answer questions. perhaps they simply think the questions have been answered already, and you should do some research, or perhaps they think it's none of your business.
@@grayman7208 Perhaps. I would argue that they have a fiduciary duty to accurately report expenditures to those who donate. It's not obligatory, but I posit that it's the most ethical thing to do. If a church wants non-profit protections, I would expect them to act ethically.
The more I learn about different high-demand religions, the more I understand the similarity with being in an abusive relationship. You love this faith, everyone you are close to loves this faith. I loved my husband, and in the beginning loved how he loved me!! My family only saw the good parts of our relationship, so they loved him too!! When you are in a high-demand relationship you find yourself getting smaller and smaller to ensure you fit in the box!! I found that as time went on I twisted myself into a pretzel to please and ensure I followed all the rules to keep my house calm!! Those who know us and live on the outside can see what is going on, they try to show us the truth, but they don't understand how devasting accepting this truth will be to the survivors. We have to stop asking why they stay in these unhealthy relationships but why do those in positions of power abuse!! When outsiders say things like "I would never put up with that", or "She could have left at any time" all they do is add to the shame the victim is feeling and put all the responsibility on them and none on those who were abusing!! People need to understand those trapped in these types of relationships are stuck in a prison of the mind. Thank you so much for sharing Megan!!!
You are so right!
Watching on replay. Just in about 20 seconds and wanted to share my feelings of camaraderie of the whole unworthiness trauma. I understand. I am also so amazed at finding you and your channels. Thank you for helping me in this journey of healing. ❤
I'm so glad you're here!
I always love hearing “hello beautiful humans” makes my heart smile 😊
What, as opposed to "hello, average looking neo-hominid cretins?"
Three MORE questions:
1) How many children were baptized after they denounced their own parents during the policy?
2) Why did Elohim change his mind so quickly (since both the policy and the flip-flop were touted as revelations)?
3) Any financial violations using church funds REQUIRE a disciplinary council--so when did this occur for those responsible for the $5M fine?
THANK YOU for speaking up Megan--especially when it's not easy!
1- probably none
2- I’ve got nothing on this one. Can’t even come up with a sarcastic reason.
3- these dudes have all been second anointed so nothing is a sin for them
@@Third_Verse Let's say Kolob is the NEAREST star to us...(extremely unlikely out of the billions of stars, but) that's 4.2 light years away. If a transmission from Kolob came at the speed of light, that means Elohim would have sent the change to his policy before we even received the first revelation to ban baptisms unless children denounced their parents.
It's spiritual/emotional/mental abuse at best.
@@thelastgoonie6555 3) if a ward clerk gets caught pocketing $1 of “sacred tithing funds” he’s immediately disciplined, and the gossip mill chews him up. “Steal a little and they throw you in jail. Steal a lot and they make you king.” (Or in some cases they make you president.)
You are doing good work Megan. The people attacking you are scared of examining themselves and their own beliefs.
Agreed.
nonsense.
@@william_mac the entire video is nonsense.
there are no questions that "terrify" leaders of the l.d.s. church.
there are many they ignore, because they have no obligation to answer.
Thank you for sharing what you've learned and are learning.
The church keeps extremely accurate, world-wide sacrament meeting attendance records; which is how Ward budgets are determined. But is that public information? No!
Which is more forthright and reliable? Membership or attendance? 🤔
😅 the secretary pads those numbers AND includes anyone who had been baptized even if they hadn't attended in a decade and left the church. They count me and I'm loud about my exmormon status. The leadership are the most dishonest of humanity. I wouldn't believe a single line they utter because it's all for hoarding more for the Latter-day Golden calf
@@bewitched3912 The Corporation of Rusty Nelson of the False Jesus Christ of the Latter-day Frauds.
@@tylerboyce6502, i was Finance Clerk for a few years. You get about $2/adult each week. Never figured out how to set a budget. I just submitted expenses and issued reimbursements 😆
If you notice closely, the tithing slip (both physical and electronic) states, “that while reasonable efforts will be made to use funds for preferred use, the Church reserves the right to use funds where needed.”
@@jacobmcneal3011 That's exactly the comment I was going to make. Designating your donation as "Humanitarian Fund" may make you feel better about it, if you're troubled about the way tithing is handled. It doesn't guarantee that your money won't go into the rest of the trillion dollar slush fund to pay for the million dollar "recruitment loan", or to build shopping centers, or to buy land for a 500,000 home community in Florida, or whatever their corrupt little hearts desire.
Yes I wonder when that language was added…
Larryofoz
Ya I think it was President hinckly or an older leader a couple decades ago I read said they push agriculture cause it’s a slow long term investment. The church also used to have lots of non profit farms. It’s sad to see them get rid of non profit farms or just rent it out when they could be still using it for charity.
And ya the church developing the ranch in Florida is a joke. It’s sad. Like why don’t Democrat members or environmentalists push for it to be a national park or do a land swap for public land in Utah? Literally a 250,000 acre ranch in Florida is rare and needed for wildlife habitat whereas land in the west has lots of conservation areas. Ranches back east need to be made into parks not made into condos.
Your detail is outstanding; I knew they were paid, I didn’t know about the “loan” of $1,000,000! That’s a mind bender! Thanks for your hard work!
I was a convert and left Mormon Church in my 20s. Now I belong to a mainline Protestant Church. The major difference is that my current church/denomination doesn't shame me for who I am (a gay man). I don't have to pay to go to heaven. I am not asked to "obey" so I can go to the celestial kingdom. People in my current church donate money because they truly believe the money will go to those who need it the most (church finance is transparent and held accountable). They volunteer and do community work because they truly want to make others happy, not because they are afraid of going to hell or make themselves happy. There's no culture of fear and shame. It's all about following the examples of Jesus. It's such a joke that Mormon Church claims it's the only true church on earth. What Mormons do aren't Christian at all.
I love this for you!
Super eye-opening information! Wow 😮
Thank you for your clear explanation about the financial situation. It's interesting how god is directing the specific heights of temple steeples but has no directions in regards to the money needed to build them.
Hello! This sounds like it will be interesting!
Thank you Megan! We should all get over the fear of speaking up. Especially when we have that strong feeling of inspiration from The Spirit to do so! If women were more involved in administration, many policies would have been amended already.
I think that the first teaching of the church is how to communicate with God, and let him lead your life. I too have had things go wrong in my life., church leaders who were less than inspired. But that never could touch me because I had a witness of God's love for me. The Temple and the many other programs are to strengthen us and help us grow. My heart was broken when my wife would not live up to our marriage covenant (love honor and cherish). But after a time, I have been healed. Your path may be different, but take the matter to "the Man of holiness" and listen to what He tells you.
Good for you for waking up and taking your blinders off. It’s hard at first but then it is so liberating to learn all of the manipulation the church uses. The best part for me is no longer feeling constant guilt, anxiety and feelings of not measuring up. I have so much peace and happiness in my life now.
Thank you for being open and honest about your experience. I would point out that your ex-husband may have been the wiser one. But also, LDS leaders are religious addicts. Their entire mindset is to placate a rigid, demanding (and I might add arbitrary) God. Their understanding of God's love is "He loves us IF..." They don't CARE what LDS teachings and practices do to mere members, who exist only to further placate this rigid, conditionally loving God. I'm not claiming other sects and subcultures are dramatically different or better. But once we lower our expectations, we can get on with our lives... either find a kinder, gentler community of believers, or stay in TCOJCOLDS but know we're going to get bashed periodically. They don't know what they're doing but fully believe going thru enough temple sessions is a substitute for real religion.
Not acting upon emotions does not mean repressing them.
Excellent podcast! Thank you!
I regret more and more being a # that the church counts in its overall membership.
😊😊😊😊😊😊
You sound like a wonderful person. I'm sorry about some of your Terrible experiences and little guidance. I just learnt to be me (it was 22 years of full activity for me too). I still go to church, but only when I want. I agree with you what you spoke (im lds (ish) in regional South Australia 🇦🇺). I also have lots of single mum friends. I love you because you your honesty with your experience. Yes I agree especially with the organisation side. Also I have seen and met christ (out of my body) since I was 6 years old (im now 44). Please keep searching christ and your personal relationship with him. It benefited me greatly, better than knowing the church.
Another interesting thing to search at the moment is chief midegah of the ojibwe nation. Quite an interesting situation and very similar to your experiences. He's following his native America routes, but has more records than the church, a huge native American meeting is happening this year to challenge the church.
Excellent presentation of very interesting and somewhat disturbing information. Thanks you.
Please note that on the bottom of the Tithing donation slip in fine print is a disclaimer that says the church can use any of the donations as they determine. The categories do not matter except the Fast Offering which stays with the Stake UNLESS it is a large amount not being used which SLC then requires to be turned over. Monies donated to a Ward are not safely retained there.
When did they start printing that I wonder…
I’m sorry you have had such a painful experience in religion. I have had many questions about faith and church as well. I’m also a member of what some would consider a high demand religion. What really changed my perspective and relationship with my church in general was the realization that my relationship with Jesus is like a marriage. He continually loves me and just because I sometimes fail does not mean we are divorced. Rather is means I just failed Him and our relationship, but like a marriage, we work together to continue to improve the relationship. This approach has really helped my walk with Christ and my approach to church interactions.
Not policy when even the church itself says it was revelation!
I think that the original November 15 policy stated that children of gay/lesbian couples could not be baptized until age of 18 and then only if they renounced their parents mirroring the polygamy policy. In any case it is a policy contrary to scripture and doctrine.
Great questions...for everyone to consider
Thank you for clarifying all this. The sensitive (secretive) financial information that is at the center of it all needs to be exposed.
Thanks!
Thank you so much!!
Megan I never thought about your age I just assumed you were probably one of my sons ages- 32ish. Wow, you look great and also, nice thoughts today.
💞
President Nelson sounds like an abusive ex with his rhetoric. Seriously.
Nelson is the Anti-Christ.
Excellent video. Very much like my journy. I love the members not the new doctrine and elite lds leaders financially supporting government entities not a fan.
Interesting, but you clearly have longstanding issues that you are attempting to deal with. Having been an auditor for my stake, l was amazed at the amount of money given freely to both members and nonmembers for rent, medical care, car expenses etc. This was the case before and after any special declaration to help the poor.
Yes of course I have longstanding issues that I’m attempting to deal with… I was a faithful member for 40 years. I am still processing the betrayal of being lied to by people I was taught to trust with my eternal salvation…
Money is a necessary part of life 🤷🏼♀️. Making financial investments is always wise, whether you’re a church or an individual. They teach classes on financial self-reliance; if everyone took those classes and lived by the principles taught there would be way less poverty. They also provide worldwide education opportunities, and the tuition is based on where you live. So people in poorer countries pay way less for their degree/certificate. Maybe try one episode where you focus on the good. If I invest my money wisely I can help MORE people. Think about that concept…
I have a book from one of those classes. While many of the principles are sound, the first one - the one that is repeatedly emphasized the most - is not fundimentally sound. Any guesses as to what principle #1 is in the talk/lesson? I'll give you a hint: It wasn't defined in the modern sense until about 1899. When it was defined in this manner, all bishops in the church (formerly paid for life) were changed to an unpaid 5 year tenure.
I could do an episode where I focus on the good. It would be very short if I didn't also include the harm done by those things that are good for some but not all.
And yes, I agree that investing money is wise. But if you are investing money being paid by members, you have a fiduciary responsibility to disclose to the members what is being done with the money, and you have a moral obligation to be honest with the government and follow the law when doing so.
If a member 'invested wisely' and did the same illegal things done in this case by the church leadership, that member would be denied a temple recommend for not being honest in all of their dealings with their fellowmen, in this case, the IRS.
@@scottvance74 I don’t understand your comment.
@@readerreader6703 Tithing as defined within the LDS church didn't have its modern definition and emphasis until 1899. It was changed in order to increase revenue to deal with church debt issues. At the same time, salaries for Bishops and Stake Presidents (previously 8% and 2% of tithing revenue) were eliminated. Currently the LDS church teaches that the #1 step for getting out of debt is to pay 10% of your income to the church. While the other recommendations (budgeting, eliminating waste, etc) are sound, this first principle (tithing) is not sound from a personal finance perspective and is self-serving. Quinn argued that the church should make exceptions for the truely poor who cannot feed their families and I agree.
Now first an example. Out in Elberta Utah is a church welfare farm. It produces milk and meat for the church welfare projects. They hire many people to work on these farms. When we first lived there they received a salary plus free housing, milk and beef. Then one day the IRS comes in and says no, the workers have to count their housing as part of their income. So they had to raise everyone's salary and then charge rent for their housing.
The same applies to the Prophet. He has an apartment with security. He has to figure out the value of that, add it to his income and then pay the taxes on it. If the church did not pay him a stipend he would still have to pay the taxes on it and very quickly be bankrupt.
The money he is paid does not come from tithing funds but from church owned businesses.
"If the church did not pay him a stipend he would still have to pay the taxes on it and very quickly be bankrupt."
I'm going to push back on your logic and financial calculations. If the housing were his only compensation, he could easily afford the taxes if he was wisely investing the $1,000,000 'loan' that he was given upon being appointed a GA.
Also
"church owned businesses" is a problem for me. It's a corporation first and foremost.
@Third_Verse Because it has to be in today's world. I knew the Church was a Coorporation years ago. So what? The Church does its best to operate for the benefit of all. And people are human. ..The President and GA's need to be taken care of financially. They give ALL of their time in matters of the Church. They shouldn't have to worry about how they are going to pay their bills or taxes.
@@shadowgirl8038
Even at the beginning they had to have legal papers drawn up to be recognized by the state, that's what April 6th was all about.
After Joseph died there was an argument between Young and Emma over what property belonged to the church and what belonged to her because it was all in Joseph's name.
Later after Young died they again had to separate the property, they had been hiding properties from the US government who was trying to confiscate it.
So when they became a legal corporation I'm not sure, but we can see the need.
However the prophet's real title is found in D&C 107:
65 Wherefore, it must needs be that one be appointed of the High Priesthood to preside over the priesthood, and he shall be called President of the High Priesthood of the Church; 66 Or, in other words, the Presiding High Priest over the High Priesthood of the Church.
I don't think the November 2015 policy allowed 8 yo children to be baptized if they disavowed their gay parents. The age was 18 not 8.
Are you sure the 2015 policy allowed for 8 year olds to disavow their gay parents lifestyle in order to get baptized? This is the first time I am hearing this.
While I no longer believe, I actually thought the 2015 policy was a good idea, because it did NOT pit children against parents.
Yeah, can you imagine how devastating that "policy" was back in 2015. Nothing Godly about that.
Just reading the gospel topic essays will undoubtedly cause your shelf to come crashing down. Tread carefully and you will find the truth outside of the Mormon Church.
Christ said, “ To Leave, all that you have and follow him” Not Religions, that ‘rubber stamp’ His Holy name on their church’s, their buildings, their name tags and letterhead!
The Church is
NOT Jesus Christ !!!,
we are to LEAVE! and follow Him Only!!
@debatosis so all churches should take Jesus Christ's name off of everything? Yah, pass that by the catholics first....
Last year I had a 17 elder in my house
I dont think the church ever said there are 17 million 'active' members just that there are 17 million people who have been baptized and names are on the rolls. Unlike other churches we don't drop people off the rolls for inactivity, the Lord's hand is always out stretched.
Really fully active members runs about 40%, then there are those who consider themselves members, like my own daughter, but don't attend much. And of course, those who were baptized as a child and never been back.
About 40% of those who leave the church eventually return.
I'm going to push back on your 40% return statistic. Do you have a source for that?
To address your first point, the statistical report doesn't mention any qualifications on the membership numbers. They simply state that there are 17 million members of record. If they truly wished to be transparent, they would also include the number of members actively attending.
@@Third_Verse
This is not the source of the 40% but I remember it was a poll of all denominations and I read it in a rebuttal to an article in the Tribune, I'll keep looking.
Also in my search I've learned this statistic thrown out there of 40% of all returning missionaries leave the church is a fake number, something just pulled out of the air. There is no way of really knowing. One article said it was 40% of those sent home early from their missions, which makes more sense.
Both Don Bradley and Maxine Hanks have returned which is a big deal.
There's an article written by non Mormon Ian Harber, Oct 12, 2023 called 10 Facts about the Millions of People Who Have Left the Church (all churches)
6. Sixty-two percent of people who have dechurched still believe that Jesus is the only way to God.
7, Fifty-one percent of people who have dechurched are willing to go back to church.
Here's a poll from Gallup
"Among major U.S. religious groups, members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints,..are the most observant, with two-thirds attending church weekly or nearly weekly. ... Mormon adults show no meaningful change in church attendance compared with 2000-2003, but they did report higher attendance in 2011-2013 than they do now."
In the Salt Lake Tribune I found this which surprised me.
"The activity rate within the "Mormon Corridor” at 71% and 65% for those without." I wouldn't think it would be that high.
Perhaps you just haven't experienced seeing people coming and going as often as an old lady like me has seen. It used to be people went quietly, unless they went on the anti Mormon circuit, now all the young people think they need to make a big splash to get attention.
There's nothing new in what the claims are, most are just repeats from old anti Mormon pamphlets. What is new is wokeism and looking through the lens of victimhood.
Someone told you that nobody faithful would want to marry you? That is sad.
Yes. My mother. My father. My bishop. My YW leaders. The leaders of the YSA men’s class…
@@Third_Verse How sick is that. I am so sorry.
Brava❤ 0:02
Mmm I'm going to look at some of your questions.
I think you misunderstood, they did not require any 8 year old to denounce their parents, they wanted the child to wait until they were 18 then they could decide to be baptized.
The whole purpose of it was not to come between the parent and child, the opposite of what you said.
Here is the statement on the reversal of the ban.
"With the change, children of gay parents can now be baptized as long as their parents approve the baptisms and acknowledge that the children will be taught church doctrine, the church said in a statement from its highest leadership group called the First Presidency."
There was a legal problem. At the time the church was grappling with all the legal problems they might run into across the world and not just in America with gay marriage. In some countries the laws says if you perform marriages you must preform them for everyone, you can not discriminate. The bride and groom have to go to a court first to be married civilly then go to the temple to be sealed.
Apparently there was a theorized legal problem that if a child was baptized, then perhaps later there could be a law suit over the church teaching the child that his parents life style was a sin, thus coming between the parent and child.(Actually I've never heard that taught in a class, it's just a give)
There was also the problem of devorce, a number of gay people have been married, that's why they have children. One parent will want to baptize their child the other won't. So what was the church to do?
They worked out the legal problems with each parent acknowledging church doctrine and approving of the baptism. I believe it's an actual legal document they sign.
I hope that clears things up for you.
incorporated = made part of
a organization made part of the "S.T.ATE"
incorporated UNDER ⚰️ the LAWS OF the "S.T.ATE"
UNDER = beneath
MORMON LEADERSHIP DOES NOT TRUST THE GENERAL MEMBERSHIP, SO WHY SHOULD YOU TRUST NELSON , OR THE APOSTLES, OR ANY OTHER LEADER WHO DOES NOT TRUST YOU ????? TRUST IS A TWO WAY STREET IN HUMAN RELATIONS. TRUST ONLY THE LORD !!!!!
@@MrBillmechanic Boyd K Packer’s “not all truths are useful,” and Dallin H Oaks’ “it’s wrong to criticize leaders of the Church, even if the criticism is true,” were the turning point for me in allowing myself to think differently and look outside the so-called faithful resources. These apostolic teachings were just so blatantly false and incongruent with Christ’s teachings and example.
I’m still very careful with resources. Year of Polygamy, Sunstone Mormon History Podcast, Radio Free Mormon, and Matt Harris’ work on the race ban have all demonstrated as objectively as possible the history that the Church actively hid for decades. But if that’s not enough, the recent SEC violations (I do federal reporting for a living, so I know for a fact there is an issue here) and sexual assault reporting misconduct give direct insight into the ongoing issues with leadership integrity.
There is simply no basis for trust with these men as a collective.
@@aBrewster29 AND A HUGE AMEN TO THAT !!!!
What do you mean by your authentic self?
Do you mean what Paul called "the inward man" or "as a man thinketh in his heart so is he"? The soul is often referred to symbolically as your heart. Jesus said; Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
Joseph Smith taught that this inner being, your intelligence, is uncreated and the basic part of who your authentic self is. Are you being true to it or have you created some other kind of reality?
My Authentic Self refers to the concept of accepting all of the parts of myself and healing those that are wounded or dysfunctional. If God created me, then he created all of the parts of me. Should I feel shame for the way I was created?
Living authentically includes not trying to fit myself into a box of someone else's making but allowing myself to not fit and to not feel shame that I don't fit. All boxes are man made.
I'm not sure what you mean by 'uncreated' I never came across that in my study...
@@Third_Verse
My small crisis of faith came from being confronted by Evangelical friends who kept telling me Mormonism was un-biblical. So I had to learn the difference between our doctrine and theirs and then study the Bible. After doing so I became a much better Mormon.
They believed in something from nothing, they say God created everything right down to the last atom. Thus you are a created being meaning, you didn't exist and then you did.
If one follows that train of thought it means God created Satan and since he knows the end from the beginning God knowingly created pure evil.
Joseph Smith taught that your soul or intelligence is uncreated, it has always existed. God takes these souls and places them in spirit matter thus making him the Father of Spirits, see Heb 12.
In Abraham 3 he sees the intelligence before the world was and is told "they were good", so your goodness or lack thereof is innate and not something created. The soul seems to have an innate gender, personality and will of its own, at least that is my understanding.
Our line of thought leads to, did our Heaven Father knowingly give Satan a platform to express his innate evil and darkness? My feeling is yes, because we need "opposition in all things" to grow, to become like God knowing good from evil.
Each of us has both light and darkness in our innate authentic and eternal selfs. Our Heavenly Father is trying to help rid us of the darkness and fill us with his light so we can comprehend all things, see D&C 88:67.
Obviously you were part of those souls who have an innate goodness or you wouldn't have been given a body.
Are you being true to your authentic eternal self or have you accepted a worldly view of who you are?
@@NancyBrown-xw8hg I have loved my self more and felt more peace with myself since leaving religion. So I believe the answer to your question is yes.
@@Third_Verse
A year ago my youngest son passed away from cancer. My hand on his heart and felt it come to a stop. At that moment I felt the promised comforter come into my heart, that is the real spirit of peace.
Did not immediately find the three questions. Thumbs down. So tired of podcasts jerking their listeners around. 👎
Hi @whizwhitney thanks for stopping by! If you click on …more under the video descriptions, you can see the transcript and scroll through to find the questions.
I felt the need to give some background information before addressing the questions.
I Don't agree with the pro-LGBTQ stance.
Then please scroll on by. Those of us in the community are the same as you. We all need love and belonging without judgement or shame.
Respectfully,l do think You Know Not What You Are doing but IF you do then I would not like to be you at the final bar and judgement seat
I do know that what I am doing is speaking the truth.
And yet here you are ripping on the LDS Church. Think of the amazing things you could accomplish in your life for you and your kids if you put as much time and effort into your new faith or other aspects of your life, instead of making it your mission to tear down another faith. ..... Also... I have spent a great amount of time researching negative things and accusations about the Church. I look at both sides. Some of it I found to be flat out Bull Cookies. Much of it I found, that for every piece of "evidence" from the negative, there was equal evidence to dispute it. What little I found to be true were actions of flawed humans. Just because humans mess up, doesnt mean the Church itself isnt true....
…unless those humans are the ones who founded the church and led and/or persuaded people to believe things that were not accurate…
Is the church transparent with it's finances or isn't it? Did the church use funds which were donated to it by poor as well as rich members to construct a luxury mall right next to its temple? What is the "other side" of those issues?
So you're basically saying the church has moved away from God&Jesus Christ...no wonder the church is in trouble ...if this is true, God&Jesus Christ have removed their presence and their authority from the church itself...this is definitely not good at all...no one has the authority to change what God has put in place...
Why aren't you "acting under the advice" of God? That's what i would do if these type of situations bothered me. The church paid the fine.. what they did, being "unethical" is your opinion and that is what you should try to prove. I'm not even sure what the 3 things were 😅
Generally breaking the law is considered unethical... that's not based on an opinion, it's based on verifiable facts. Does the fact that they paid the fine excuse their actions?
@@Third_Verse that's not how we adjudicate here in the great USofA.
Oh, you killed a man? INSTANT JAIL?!
NO OF COURSE NOT! What if it was self defense? A freak accident? Or not even your fault...? Etc.
I for one have a testimony of GOD and trust that the church is trying it's best to do good. (The Lords will)
LOL
nonsense
Which part, exactly?
@@Third_Verse
start at the beginning, continue to the end.
my point is, they are not "terrified" of any questions.
@@grayman7208 if they are not terrified, why won’t they answer any questions? They made a statement and “consider the matter closed.”
@@Third_Verse
they are not obligated to "answer" anymore than anyone else is obligated to answer questions.
perhaps they simply think the questions have been answered already, and you should do some research,
or perhaps they think it's none of your business.
@@grayman7208 Perhaps. I would argue that they have a fiduciary duty to accurately report expenditures to those who donate. It's not obligatory, but I posit that it's the most ethical thing to do. If a church wants non-profit protections, I would expect them to act ethically.