Manchester. The River Medlock Episode VII. Tunnels, Brooks and Bridges.
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- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2024
- In this video we are back in Manchester's River Medlock wading along and Urbex Urban exploring in the River. We Start the journey in the River culvert at London road. We find ourselves under a bridge in the city of Manchester looking into 3 strange tunnels. What could they be. One is possibly an outlet for the lost Manchester waterway Shooters brook. Further upstream we encounter a boat for our journey and we get to investigate the foreboding tunnel that is Dukes Tunnel. A tunnel built in Georgian times by the duke of Bridgewater for boats to bring coal from the Bridgewater canal Mines at Worsley. Dukes tunnel is a very mysterious tunnel in the city centre of Manchester. I have wondered for many years what could be in this old underground canal tunnel in Manchester now disused from victorian times. It was usurped by the Rochdale canal. This video really is a delve into manchester's past history a great adventure of urbex Urban exploring and history documentary #Victorianhistory #RiverMedlock #undergroundManchester. We use old Victorian maps and look at old archive photographs of manchester and the River Medlock
Music provided by HearWeGo
Artist: Aurora B.Polaris
Title: Forgotten
Listen on RUclips: • Aurora B.Polaris - For...
Other Music by Martin Zero
It always surprises me when, in the middle of all of the spray painted crap on the walls, a piece of really good art pops up.
👍😃
You coulda crawled fearlessly down that little overflow, if not for the vicious pigeon which has stood guard for 200 yrs.
The Pigeon said, "you shall not pass"
@@MartinZero "NONE shall pass!"
Martin get's savaged by the pidgeon
"'tis but a flesh wound"
@@garybroadhurst3548 and would have ended with Martin saying "Alright, let's call it a draw."
Those faces on the hotel still conjure up sad and lonely feelings. Amazing that the architect would go to the time and effort to design some so beautiful and emotionally provoking bits of artwork that so few would be able to see. But thanks to the brave efforts of You and Connor, a guy in Texas, U.S.A. (Me) can see these small details of magnificent artwork.
Thanks!
Thanks Peter yes its amazing that they face the river and no one sees them
Maybe they have that sad look due to the condition of the river today with all that junk in it ... ? Well. Maybe not. But one *could* argue that way.
did anyone else have a massive grin on their face seeing the dinghy being lowered down lol
So fortunate that the urbex gods chose to shine on this day. Chances of that happening eh!
A gift from above
an aligning of the planets 😀
being a child of the 60's cool the dinghy was called Stingray - on another mission
@@suffolksettler5106 When it arrived, it would have been a perfect time for the Thunderbirds theme!
Good to see how the water quality has improved since the sixties when the City centre water in the Medlock and Irwell was anaerobic, full of black sewage fungus and essentially dead to fish. That was a beautiful specimin in the culvert. The smaller fish in the natural river section may have been sticklebacks but hard to tell. How many happy hours I spent with wellies, jam jar on a string and 2 bob fishing net in the brooks and streams just outside Manchester proper. Minnows and sticklebacks and newts in the swamps in badly drained areas near railway embankments. Some sort of paradise maybe?
Yes I remember the rivers back then. Looking down from Cathedral Steps was horrific. There were some lifebelts attached to the railings.
I don't think you drowned, you dissolved.
You could usually smell hops from all the breweries in the vicinity.
Poetic,
Lovely.
👍💖
Excellent video again, like you I was disappointed with the tunnel being filled in.
However, you looked like you were having fun with your dinghy.
Yes Roy we had to at least find out
When the boat was being lowered, I was so happy I actually got tears in my eyes. You are an amazing man. Thank you, from Texas USA.
@@sarahsmthrox Thank you so very much. Am glad you enjoyed it 👍😃
Dukes tunnel was filled in by British Rail when the new Station buildings were put up on the station approach at London Road(now Manchester piccadilly) during the rebuilding in the 1960's.
Dammit 😭
Hi Adelle and thank you. Thats interesting can you tell me where you get your info Id like to read up ?
Did you notice you could see past the mound of silt where the water was coming through? I’ll have to check again in case it was a trick of the light reflections but it only looked a few feet deep into the tunnel.
The silt near the Duke's entrance could have washed down from the construction site fill in .Back then , fill from excavations would not have traveled far . The first rule of material handling is don't .
I really like the extreme angle that Dukes tunnel makes with the river. It's nothing near a right angle.
always wear a hi-vis no one will question what you are doing haha just think your workmen
Sometimes true 😃
Some journalists in various places have tried it. Doesn’t always work but very often it does.
1- hi vis vest, 2- hardhat, 3- clipboard with paperwork. It's the passport to many restricted areas. A shovel is an option if paperwork is to difficult to keep dry, but a clipboard is more effective.
@@MartinZero I tried it. She knew I wasn't a gynecologist.
@@gteaz It was the waders - use trainers next time.
If you get a minute, can you do the amazon.
Next week 👍
Nice video Martin, dukes tunnel remains a mystery. Amazing that fish seem to be doing well in the Medlock. Looking forward to the next episode and the river Tib.
Thanks yeah great to see fish. Yep the Tib may pop up
Great, Martin! A disappointment, for sure, but wonderful to see inside the old tunnel. Probably just silted up for a short way, I expect most of the silt comes from the Medlock, during high water. No real flow from within. I know it wouldn't be something the city would do, but it would certainly be nice if someone took it into their head to clean the trash out of the river...
Yes I think its years of impacted silt pity
I would have thought it had been done deliberately to stop any intrepid explorers from going in. It must be SO dangerous further in with the roof totally unmaintained for over 200 years and all the vibrations and settling from traffic, building work etc. The shape of the blockage does look similar to what Martin has found in old railway tunnels before, although I'd have expected more stone and brick if that were the case. I'd imagine the tunnel has been totally dug-through and blocked with concrete foundations in places, being so close to the surface... but then, from the earlier videos, the culveted Shooters Brook hasn't - at least for as far as the little robot got, so who knows.
Dammit being filled in, great explore though and the music totally on point as usual. Thanks Martin, I wouldn't suggest dig it but :D rent a drain endoscope for the small gap? :D
That would be a good idea and thanks very much
@@MartinZero buy a carbon fishing boom and mount a Gopro on the end.
bloody excellent video. Keep it up !! Better than Discovery channel
Thank you Joe
Time to crack a beer open guys and gals, this gonna be good.
Cheers Joseph
I would say it is a fair bet given the age it was built that the faces on the wall of the Refuge building are Arthurian - Guinevere, Merlin, Arthur. They were very popular with the Art Nouveau crowd.
Probably Pat certainly looks like em 👍
"Double Job". Let's say 'Bifurcated'.
Fish was a chub, as stated by someone else. Water is clean, shame about the rubbish.
You clearly had a hoot- I feel the best is yet to come, and may be scary/difficult.
You two make a perfect team, thanx to both of you for doing and uploading. Majestic work.
IMHO, modern manholes should be termed 'half-man holes', as they won't admit of a man of a certain stature. Ahem.
Thank you, yes lovely little chub 👍
Sorry your right chub ! Not barbel 🙄
Any volunteers to clean it? Would make for an another film. Maybe the council would pay for a skip?
What an absolute score Martin! Now this is how you tour a city!
Thanks yes its certainly the alternative tour 😃
It's interesting to hear that Manchester has a pub called the Lass O'Gowrie, here on the other side of the world we also have a pub called the Lass O'Gowrie located in Wickham New South Wales Australia (a suburb of Newcastle City).
Can you get a decent Foster's there mate?😉
@@English_Dawn If you're a tourist yes, locals don't drink the stuff lol.
Wow I never knew that thanks Robert
I always wondered why the smoking area at the lass'o gowrie sometimes stunk to high heaven it's no wonder when there's a sewer overflow underneath the bridge, great pub though. Thanks for filming this I always wanted to walk it myself.
Thanks, am starting to like sewers 😃
That’s not a sewer technically, it’s a surface water drain. Sewage from toilets and the like isn’t discharged into rivers normally. If it was, the Medlock would be full of toilet paper, condoms and everything else that people flush down toilets.
It was when I was a kid
Thumbs up as always but.... glad to see you wear a hard hat Martin; when you entered the culvert I was looking at the stones etc above the hole that were close to the entry. It might not do more than hurt but please folks copy Martin and keep your head safe. :-)
Thanks Simon
This video just showed up in notifications, can't wait to watch it. Always look forward to your videos Martin!👍❤️🕉
Thanks very much
Found this channel about 6 months ago,got me big time into exploring the old railway by my house,and the underground culvert ,so thank you for inspiring me to get off my arse an learn some local history :)
Thank you very much. Hope the explorings going well
Nice one, i'll be watching this shortly with some pie and peas and a mug of tea :-)
No peas for me thanks
Wot, no mash?!!
@@cargy930 Ended up having some chunky chips.
mushy ones with mint sauce... lovely.
I let out a big "Oh NO" when I saw that the tunnel was filled in. My wife yelled to me from the other room asked what was wrong. I replied, "you would not understand". I then spent the next 5 minutes explaining to her why I was disappointed. She said, "Ah too bad". I knew she would not understand HAHAHA.
Ha, Brilliant Robert 😀
Yes, I have experienced that. They just don't get it.
I wonder, does the saying “leg it” as in run away quickly come from these low canal tunnels?
PS. If anyone is giving a thumbs down to this could you please leave a comment why? What were you expecting and how were your expectations not met?
Lol we used to say that all the time as kids leg it. 😂.
@@chucky2316 So did we..... when your mate did something idiotic........... "leg it"
@@siypic another one was walking up to strangers and saying you dropped you're gay card lol
it just comes from using your legs lol
Many thanks Martin and Connor. Fantastic, watched with great interest I too wondered how far the Duke's tunnel went for the past 50 years. Now I know. Interesting to see water coming out of it. I suspect the heads on the Refuge building represent areas of the world where the company did business. The first looked Scandanavian and the third was probably a North American Indian as you can just make our some feathers. Looking forward to the next installment. Best Wishes Pete
Thanks Pete, thats interesting about the heads thanks
Hi Martin!! Well worth the wait for your exploration of section of the Medlock.
Absolutely loved this video. Thousands of times I've crossed over & above this part of the river. I've probably carried thousands & thousands people across its bridges too over many years.
To see it from this angle is magnificent.
Massive round of applause to you & Connor 👏👏😊
Thanks very much, yeah its great being down there totally different perspective 👍😀
They should re-open Duke's Tunnel for an archaeological dig, I bet you would find some interesting things in there. Someone needs to unblock it! I am really really curious as to what is inside.
COuld be a hazard for human upperstructure above.
@@tomjoad1363 You think that soft infill is supporting the buildings above? Somehow I doubt that. But what I do suspect is that during construction of buildings above, they probably have accidentally come across Duke's Tunnel whilst doing foundations and damaged it.
I agree that would be very interesting
Crazy to think this river would have been the only source of water for the villages that would become Manchester before piped water, and now it's mostly a neglected water passage. ignored but the city folk and authorities. you'd think they would have it cleaned and cleared regularly?
Thank you 👍
It wasn't the only source there's a number of rivers that got the same culverting. That IS clean (relatively) you should have seen them before😉 Absolute Third World.
@@English_Dawn Sure I meant the only one right there obviously, there are a number of rivers in the city I was referring to just the area they are in. yeah it runs clean I can see that, again I was referring to the clutter and some of the silt, you'd think they would clear that occasionally?
@@Thunderer0872 You are right for a normal city or town. Problem is Mcr wasn't. It was Third World in it's rivers and open space. 30 years all its rivers were anaerobic and a dumping ground full of oil-drums and supermarket trolleys. If you had seen it then! Mcr and other Northern cities went South economically during the 1900's. Canals filled in tumbleweed on open space. Gradually Mcr. Council has had to be dragged kicking and screaming into line with what is expected. Mcr. as you will know never bothered investing in an underground and was very business orientated rather than people or the environment. It doesn't have the city-centre green parks London has. Next month sadly is the bicentennial of the "Peterloo Massacre" which was just yards away from Martin's programme.
To see fish in those streams is gobsmacking there's not been fish in them for centuries.
Mcr. is 3rd behind London and Edinburgh for tourism so you can says it's in their interest to clean up as tourists expect higher standards so hopefully they are doing it for environmental, civic, reasons but the fact that money is involved filling hotels, conferences etc it will drag the Council kicking and screaming to do what the rest of us has always wanted as environment was a complete disgrace. Thank you for your concern.🙂
Great vid again Martin. Love the steep angled brickwork as Dukes tunnel enters the main river. That hump of silt will only be blocking up the front entrance. Maybe 10 meters.
I suspicious that new pipe under the bridge is Shooters brook. Its running clear and is set lower than the old disused brick tunnel which angles backwards and downwards. This would account for its lower position.
Ask yourself this question... What other source of freshwater would it be? Is there another stream in that area? Maybe because the front end of Dukes tunnel is silted up, that the water from shooters brook has backed up and is overflowing out of that new pipe? After all its only trickling down the edge of Dukes tunnel. But it is running clear. There is one way to check 100% and that is by pulling the drain plug on that section of canal that you witnessed in an earlier video. Looking forward to seeing that one!
Keep up the great work. Ian.
I had exactly the same thought. The new pipe could be a diversion from Shooters brook since Dukes tunnel seems to be filled in. I think it was mentioned before that somebody had drilled into Dukes tunnel and seen that it was 80-90% filled in. That water can't be rain water since it hadn't rained in a couple of days, must be a natural water flow or overflow from a canal.
Interesting Ian and thanks. Dont forget under the Drain plug its not Shooters its the River Tib
Sorry Martin, back to the drawing board on that one! But would still be interesting as the Tib would flood into Dukes tunnel and maybe show itself at the same new out flow as it too backed up behind the slit plug.
Hello again Ian. The River Tib doesnt go anywhere near Dukes Tunnel its in a different part of town. The TIb meets the Medlock much further downstream. Its course doesnt touch Dukes tunnel. If you look at the hidden Manchester map you will see. Sorry I am only saying for your info
Ok sorry Martin, I've obviously got mixed up. Ian.
I have seen a strong flow emerging from Dukes a couple of times during storms.
Where you seeing this from Chris ?
Ooh, spooky. . . . . . . Pause the video at 20:57 . . . Does anyone else see the head of a tabby cat, watching Connor as he manoeuvres the boat? Obviously 'a trick of the light'/optical illusion, but it's there!
Well, I guess that floats your boat, and it was certainly interesting to see. I'm a bit disappointed that people don't look after their buildings these days, and all that extraneous vegetation sprouting out of walls, and from roofs and ledges will cause structural problems in the fullness of time.
It's a real shame the Duke's Tunnel is blocked, but I guess it's safer that way, though there must be a temptation to go in there and excavate that thing?
I reckon there must have been a few changes in road level over the decades, if you consider the old road bridges and where the surface must have been, against the considerably higher surface levels today. And, whilst speaking of bridges, do you suppose that new , concrete, outfall might be doing the job of the old brick lined outfall (where Pidgey was watching from). Perhaps having collapsed and been deemed too costly, or too difficult to maintain? - Just thinking out loud.
Another great video, Martin. I love these explorations into things we don't normally get to see
Thanks very much and am glad you noticed Connors Cat Colin
@@MartinZero So, Connor's cat, Colin came canoeing in the canal - well, river Medlock, anyway!
I love that cat, but did you notice it, before, or after? Curiously, my 15 year old tabby cat 'Twinkle' died last week - is she playing tricks on me?
What an amazing video. Thank you Sir, I really enjoyed watching that!!
Thank you Chris
Martin. One is filled with admiration for the stoicism and bravery of the tunnellers of the Duke's Tunnel as well as their skills.
As you probably know the early tunnellers of the underground rail tunnels if they were near the surface would use cut and cover which they would dig a trench then roof it. As they went deeper they would use the Belgian-shield method whereupon they would have a shield above them which they pushed forward as they moved distance that would protect them from rock-fall.
To tunnel through rock with just a candle light is extraordinarily brave. This is doubled if a watercourse possibly Shooter's Brook is encountered. They must have had some early form of Belgian-shield. I am not a geologist but I don't think the sandstone is particularly prone to rockfall but it still takes bravery.
The Pendleton Fault from the Lower Irwell Valley runs South East through Mcr. to Poynton which I think in the 80's quaked at 6 on the Richter Scale.
To be down there if they were cognizant of this Fault or not with primitive Health and Safety and First Aid is bravery in the extreme.
Much indebted to you to bringing these aspects to the public realm.
I'm thinking of the Dutch cap! Word association.
@@patrickmccarthy5462 Sorry?
@@English_Dawn it's a kind of barrier.
@@patrickmccarthy5462 Oh right, my earlier Flemish tunnelling proposition. 🙂 O think the tunnellers armed with candle and a pick would have need Dutch courage.😉
Thanks Mark, yes I am full of admiration and awe at these old forgotten things
Wonder how silted up the medlock is .. I know from my days that Bolton had the little river side "Door ways and windows" Also there seems to be the same in stockportt near the Asda .. these could have been basement level windows and the like maybe ?
I think over the past two hundred years its level has significantly heightened as can be demonstrated by Dukes tunnel. I think the cause was cinders dumped in the river
You must have been gutted to find that tunnel filled like that. I'm guessing it's a natural build-up rather being backfilled but no doubt not what you wanted to find. Perhaps this discovery might provide evidence for the authorities to clear it. it's possible they don't know how much it has silted up over the years. Perhaps it needs to be kept clear as a water passage. Enjoyed this one as always!
Thanks very much. I dont think anyone knows very much about that tunnel
WOW, such great content. Your passion for Manchester, the bee on your hard hat, the new footage balanced with the old photos and maps. Love your videos, keep going!
Thank you very much
Im across the pond in Coventry and there is nothing like that here but your videos are awesome and I feel I’m virtually exploring from a phone screen and I love them. I really thought no he’s not going to go through that tunnel 8ft deep with silt and I was quite relieved it was filled, you mad man. Keep up the great vids from a long time subscriber.
Thanks very much. I would have gone in if I could. Thanks for staying with me much appreciated
Dubmonkey87. Hi. We're sadly coming up to the bicenteniary of the "Peterloo Massacre" next month which took place within yards of this bridge and you can see the original bridge in that wonderful shot that people must have crossed to hear Orator Hunt on that fateful day. It started as a Holiday atmosphere in fields and ended so tragically. 😢
Fantastic video keep up the good work 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧
Thanks David
Finally no tunnel acces, but what a pleasure again to see this river medloc episode and you guys having fun.
Thanks very much Flo
I,m only here for the Tea!Great video again Martin , but a shock at the start! i thought the old Bill had caught me up in Germany ;-) Greetings everyone from Germany
Thanks Julian and greetings to Germany
Enjoyed the collab on Whitewick's Abandoned Railways channel. Hope you post your side of it soon and hope you had a great day. 👍👍😁
Thanks Ian, yes I have my version ready to be edited
Blocked! What a shame; I had visions of you propelling your little boat up the tunnel with your feet on the ceiling - the first person to do it in a century or more!
I would of loved to have done that 😀👍
Yes me too. It would have been great if Martin could have 'legged' in, even just a few metres. Knowing how passionate he is about that particular place, I'm sure it would have been the highlight of all his exploring. I genuinely felt so sorry for him when we saw it had been filled.
Come on Martin don't let your nemesis beat you, i'm up for joining the Dukes Tunnel Restoration Society, i've got a spade and a pair of wellies :)
Every time he see's a shovel in a shed or a DIY store, Duke's Tunnel will come to mind...........................go on Martin - you know you want to !
I will meet you down there
That's the spirit! Get stuck in and make a movie!
The faces were Greek characters the girl is the same as the statue of liberty them faces are all over the world great video
Thank you
Marie Bartholdi!
I used to watch the river flowing into that culvert, i never reslised anyone could actually walk through it. Facinating
Not everyone agrees with me, but I think the coal shaft on London Road/Bank Top is marked by a circle in the pavement, a few yards from Store Street. That's where your blue arrow was pointing.
Everything about that tunnel is a wee bit controversial on internet forums, but the water board should have detailed plans.
Whoever designed the station approach in the sixties should know if the coal yard is where I think it is.
Finding that big outflow under the bridge is interesting, and I prefer it as Shooter's Brook, than the higher ones.
Oh. And I think the silt has sort of passively collected in the tunnel mouth, and not washed in with the current, so it shouldn't go back very far.
Cheers.
I went to London Road in the sixties and I doubt there has been a coal yard anywhere near for centuries but I was only a child. The station approach if you look at old views has remained unchanged virtually since the station was built in the 19th century only the vehicles have changed.
I understand what you say about Store Street. I think my money would be closer where the cross roads are between London Road and Ducie St. The Coach and Horses pub which I occasionally frequented which is where Picaddily Place the TfGM offices are is where Friederich Engles used to go for a pint, I don't know if his mate Karl Marx went with him. It was from the 1700's on that spot with some very interesting rooms with windows underneath. It would have co-existed with the coal yard and shaft. They did a lovely Winkle's "Saxon Cross" beer and contained many small rooms and coal fires. Was surprised with such a jewel the council opted for the bulldozer rather than adapting and incorporating it into its surroundings like the Shambles and Sinclair's Oyster Bar. Philistines! Wouldn't be surprised if there's tunnels (filled in) under it all.
Had a book once limited-edition given me as an official celebration of all the chief stations in Mcr in some anniversary it was in-house for railway staff and had diagrams in detail of each, architectural. With different elevations even down to how many cartage horses were housed. At London Road there were hundreds if not thousands kept in the "Dust Bowl" where taxis now are under the station and in Victorian times prize-fighting (illegal(?)) took place.
I don't recall any proprietary coal-yard other than railway goods and they were on the Eastern Side near the London Warehouse. On the East of the Train Shed itself there were plans of two shafts from the goods yard down to the "Dust Bowl" below horse-worked (I think(?)) 1800's. One Platform 1 next to the wall there remained a wash-basin from the earliest station.
If HS2 gets approved this area will change. 🙂
I agree its probably natural silt, I see what you mean about the circle on London road but as mentioned I always got the impression it was higher up at Ducie street
@@MartinZero I'm sure to shaft was close to the circle on the London Road pavement. Funnily enough, or not as the case may be, there's street behind the Macdonald Hotel called Berry Street, which was called Worsley Street two hundred years ago. Where the Duke was from.
Hey, I've just remembered a doozy of a tunnel in Castlefield, that someone showed online for a while. It's amazing. PM me and I'll let you know. Cheers.
@@MartinZero Is the rise upon which Picc. Station is built natural? If so it's not a natural place for the Duke's Tunnel to come up don't you think? The topography must have changed from the 1700's but how much? The seemingly only flat bit is around Ducie Street and London Road. When the Rochdale Canal came why did it choose this area too? They were built for purely economic not aesthetic reasons so there must have been a reason economically as well as geologically to go around the Picaddily Basin site. Is it fanciful that the Duke's Tunnel had gone pretty close to this area for the same reason? 🤔
Until relatively recently there was a public house on London Road facing Station Approach. It was called the Coach and Horses. I take it you were too busy going in record shops and the Factory to call in for a pint! 😊 It was a fascinating building obviously 1700's, higgle-de-piggledy rooms with coal-fires. It faced London Road so there MUST have been a road if not called London Road there in the 1700's. It was on a least two storeys. There was a basement storey visible with windows, typical 1700's tiny windows and lots of them that came above the pavement level and I think there were steps down off London Rd to get access to to the lower level. To get into the Coach & Horses public house itself from London Road there was a short flight of steps. The steps had hand-rails I think.
There was possibly an attic too but not sure about that.
The conclusion to draw from that since it was built it is likely the level of London Road has heightened to require those steps. Why would you put windows only about a foot or two above the road level?
I also know there were other buildings either of the Coach and Horses but can't verify their vintage but they followed the same alignment on London Road and it's unlikely the Coach & Horses would have been by itself probably even in the 1700's. It looks like it was an "established site". The coal-yard and upshaft could have existed "on that site" if the dates didn't match. If the dates matched they couldn't have been on that site at that time ergo must have been on an alternative site close-by. But where?
From the 1600's the Mynshull (Minshull) family owned most of the land around this part of Mcr. The heiress married Roger Aytoun and he inherited it in the 1760's when it was sold it off for building plots. He formed his own regiment the 72nd Regiment of Foot (Mcr. Volunteers) and went off to fight in the American War of Independance.
By the time Duke Francis was building his tunnel it was already quite built up or at least a building site.
An 1840's Ordnance Survey map shows a coal wharf on Ducie Street. Not specifically for Rochdale Canal but quite interestingly across Ducie Street on the Ashton Canal! Quite close to the one remaining later Railway Warehouse (1 of 4). Even by the 1840's the area which later became railway was already considerably built up and there was an Iron Factory of some size on the South side of Ashton Canal.
This is only 40 years after the Duke's Tunnel being moth-balled. Apart from iron-ore what does an iron works need lots of? Coal and lots of it! It looks like this area was an already established industrial area and was considerably so by the 1840's enough to warrant the cost and effort of building three canals the Duke's, Rochdale and Ashton.
Those other shafts (Railway).
I had an old book printed by the railway of the drawings of the main stations in Mcr with all the technical stuff. I remember it showed two distinct shafts next to the East Side of the London Road's train-set. I think they were Capstan winches worked by horses raising goods too from the Undercroft below.
There was general traffic but because of the scale certain goods stations tended to major on specific goods, for instance nearby Ancoats Goods Station was largely wine and beer and Oldham Road after it's passengers changed to Victoria was foodstuffs for Shudehill Market. Even Liverpool Road still used goods in the 60's I think.
Are the pieces falling into place?
Another great interesting video thanks guys love the history. So much of Manchester above is being changed great you can still see the history xxxx of a great city.
Thanks Lee much appreciated
Hi Martin, wow this episode, I loved the music at 7:00 you've played it before, is it one of your creations ??. I darn near nearly cried when that dinghy started lowering as I knew you would finally be able to see inside Dukes tunnel. Such a shame it's all silted up there but I think the same as you that the water flowing from the tunnel is in fact Shooters brook, amazing. I really love the way you do your video's where you say about the history and then show it in photographs and then actually get up and personal with it. Thank you for all of your hard work, and your research too. This would make for an awesome tv series, thank you. xx
Thanks very much Sue. Yes I love that music as well. Its not mine. If you look in the about section under the video click show more and the music is credited there
@@MartinZero Cool thank you. x
I had to laugh when I saw the raft coming down over the side. Good planning.
Thanks Lance, yeah it took some planning 😃
Murphy's law.... ^^
A well put together video. Thanks guys 👍👍😎
Thank you David
aww what a shame it has been filled in but nice to see the river is a lot cleaner these days. Brilliant video Martin your editing is really coming on too!! Hope we get to see your little boat again 🤣🤣🤣🤞🤗
Thanks Dawn, I sold the boat for a canoe 😀
@@MartinZero ...no motor then? 🤣🤣🤣
is Dukes Tunnel 'filled in' or is it just silted up?
Both, I suspect
Yet another mint video. Nice one, love this river medlock series youve created. Irwell next ? ☺
Thank you, thing about the Irwell its too deep to wade in
@@MartinZero more of a walk along the riverbank then, we dont want you drowning 😉
Top quality as always!
Thanks David
Oh dear, what a let down. I used to know a caver who would have jumped at the chance to dig that out but I imagine he is long gone now. Just a thought, how about your contact with Derbyshire cavers??????
I will have a word with them 👍
The fish is a Chub, very common river fish. Great scrapper when you hook one. I've been lifting them out of the River Douglas only yards from Wigan town centre for the past few days.
Great video, once again.
Yes Chub
Thanks very much, I really dont know Fish
leave the fish alone
Martin. Mystery Solved. I've found It!
I was right that block with Coach and Horses WAS built up! London Road was all built up into the centre, heavily built up, surprisingly so. Even that empty space, apart from trees, opposite it adjacent to Station Approach was full to the brim with houses. Long lost streets Swarbrick Street, Ashton Street. To complement London Road there was another main road than ran 45 degrees from the London Road/Ducie Street crossroads. It was called Birmingham Street. and ran South Eastwards basically where that cement facade' of Staion Approach is!
I have a detailed Ordnance Survey Map of Manchester (London Road) of 1849 and there's not much unused space. Houses, cotton mills, chemical works, print works even the first London Road station, not that one, the first! This was right down the bottom of what is now Station Approach. Surprising but the River Medlock is not in 1849 culverted unlike some of its contemporaries. London Road looks built up as far as Ardwick on both sides. Amazing.
London Road passes through an area called Ardwick Bridge and there's a big curve in the Medlock with Ardwick Bridge Chemical Works in it. There on London Road in 1849 is an actual bridge just before the curve. I think it must be near where the "Lazy S" BT building now MacDonald Hotel is.
Now let's return closer to Mcr. city-centre. Keep to the West side of London Road. Remember this is 49 years after the Duke's Tunnel had been "moth-balled".
There are two coal yards [Drum Roll....]. One is the Grocer Company's Store and .... wait for it .... the other 49years AFTER being "mothballed" is still called " Banktop or Bridgewater Trust Coal Wharf" which is on a much bigger site. It has a Weighing Machine and offices which are probably 99% where the shaft emerged.
The big surprise is there is a canal arm to it North/South! It's also a Coal Wharf as is the Grocer Companies Coal Yard immediately next to it. The Rochdale Canal is clearly marked and they have a separate canal South to the Duke's Site.
Do you need smelling-salts yet?😉
I never thought this long-lost canal ever existed. It's really a canal "arm".
Now where is it in Mcr if you were to go today? It's offices and weighing-machine and main (only?) entrance is in Minshull Street. I am 99% sure It's where today's Minshull Street Courts is. It's a huge site, it extends from Minshull Street to Chorlton Street and Pump Street to the South which is it's boundary. All the Duke's Coal Yard. It doesn't extend to London Road, perhaps 500 or 600 yards short of extending to London Road.
Did you ever think it was there? Come on tell me the truth Martin. I thought it had been on the other side of London Road near Store Street Iron Works.
I had said Mick Hucknall's Malmaison Hotel was interesting. It wasn't far off the mark.
It's as clear as day where his yard was and what a yard, massive.
St. George's Foundry was next to it on the North East side. St. Augustine's Roman Catholic Chapel and Chapel Yard on it's Southern Boundary and the Aforesaid Grocer Company Coal Yard and Wharf to the North West.
They had been busy since Roger Aytoun sold off the land.
Just between you and I the Coach and Horses is marked on the map but it had a different name in 1849. It looks like (Old Fleet Show) but is very small writing but it was a public house. It's a very built area and I knew there was a street parallel to London Road behind it. You could see the surface of a metalled road amongst the wasteland. It was called Back Pump Street and joined Pump Street the Southern Boundary with a right-angled "T-Junction".
For your information this separate canal or canal arm left the Rochdale Canal proper in a "T-Junction" afair on Canal Street.
Cannot believe they just bulldozed all this recently with its history of Engles etc who helped to put Mcr. on the Map instead of incorporating into Piccadilly Place like they have Shambles and Sinclair's Oyster Bar into Exchange Square. It was full of amazing small, interesting, creaky rooms and they served interesting ales. It would have been a tourist magnet now so close to Picaddily Station and the city-centre.
Thank you for your efforts uncovering this piece of Manchester's history. I've had a look for Shooter's Brook I may have missed it but I think it had been culverted before 1849.🤔
I know they culverted the River Tib in Tib St. in 1783 so Shooter's Brook might have been culverted early too.
Best wishes. 🙂👍
M.
Hello Mark yes there were many canal arms, I am looking at the 1821 map now and there are a few now long gone. I can see the one at bank top. I also point one out in my Bloom Street power station video as well. Its probably a video in itself
@@MartinZero Thanks. Yes to us canals are quaint leisure pastimes but in Brindley's time were "motorways" a big step up from what went before and any business worth it's salt would have access to one.
I am glad you have a map with it on! It almost reached Whitworth Street! The two listed Warehouses that are going to be given back to the public but as apartments probably Minshull House and Minto and Turner are at the Northern End of the site and in 1849 belonged to the Grocers Company and St. George's. The Duke seems to have concentrated in the bottom two-thirds of the site. 🙂👍
I don't know what you think but I guess the earlier coal shaft to the Duke's Tunnel was probably where Aytoun Tower now is or the smaller building to the North alongside it.
Excellent Martin. Your love of old Manchester shines through all your videos
Thanks Peter 👍
I got the Brindley reference...!
I'm sat in my house which is about 500 yards from the Wednesbury Oak Loop on James Brindley's canal on the BCN (Birmingham Canal Navigations).
As the word loop suggests, it was part of the 18th century long and meandering canal that served the coal mines of the Black Country. The BCN was eventually improved by Thomas Telford, who straightened and widened the BCN with his Birmingham Mainline Canal in the 1830s. The Wednesbury Oak Loop eventually fell into disrepair and was designated as abandoned in the 1950s.
Only parts of the Wednesbury Oak Loop remain as a lot of it was filled in or built over in the 1960s.
Is the Stafford and Worcester nearby? A lot of canals where purchased by railway companies. Is the O.W.W. Railway near?🙂
Thats a shame so much we have lost
So... I'm going to ask the obvious question.... what's with the weird flashing lights in the archway you encountered before going into Dukes Tunnel? I suppose you put them in there but why?
Anyway, thanks for another great video! Cheers!
Which bit was that ...?
Foreshadowing
Yep, looks like the US cop car flashing light at a crime scene. XD
@@MartinZero The suspense is killing me :-D
@@MartinZero lose em, or warn.
Bollocks to that Martin! Deep holes and water. My nightmares are your playground.
Ha more Bollocks deep water to come Rob 😃
I saw some perch in the river a few days ago!
Great, am afraid I dont know my fish
First fish I ever caught :D
im sure someone will dig this a bit just to see if it could be cleared enough to see over the top of it. It wont be you guys but one day a way through may reveal something unique.
Its very difficult and dangerous point Martin. In front of that silt it is very deep
What another interesting video Martin loved it. What if you and Connor found a banksy Mural down there, quids in mate.🙌
That would be good 😆
Yet another top quality video, Martin. I always press the 'like' button before watching a second, as I know the content will be top-notch. One small thing: I would suggest, if you are exploring urban water courses, culverts, etc., to wear waterproof gloves. A fact of life is that there are going to be rats there, and where there are rats, there's the possibility of Leptospirosis/Weil's disease. It's extremely unpleasant in severe cases, and can be fatal. I'm looking forward to the next part.
One more thing: in another video of yours, you show the site of a void underneath some riverside buildings. Any chance of getting in there in the future?
Thanks Brian much appreciated. I cant remember which void/river that was ? If its the Irwell it will be too deep and dangerous
@@MartinZero - You're probably right. It's in your 'Five Manchester Mysteries' video, it is on the bank of the Irwell, and you say that it's known as the 'Manchester Cave'.
The boat appearing was the funniest thing I've seen all year!
Thanks, It took some organising 😆
Liked this so much, a second look at it was a must. Okford Road bridge,,,,,How old is that? SO very interesting your city!!!
Mcr was mainly clustered round the Cathedral until well into the 1700's then even by the 1800's was fields in this part. Sadly the "Peterloo Massacre" 200 years next month took place yards away from here it was still in 1819 St. Peter's Fields.
The next township was Chorlton-On-Medlock and the original bridge would have been lifting a country road. It's a far-cry today. Chorlton-On-Medlock is now a busy suburb. Some of Mcr's main Hospitals and Europe's largest University Campus is on it. 🙂
Yeah am not sure how old it is to be honest. There are a few bridges like that along the way. Thanks for watching twice
Next episode, small jcb on the back of dingy...do it
Dont tempt me 👍
LMAO I have been thinking an RC boat combo with a Drone tethered by a good 50lb fishing line for retrieval would suit you well!
Sort it out for me 😃👍
Wow!!!!
The original Oxford Rd bridge hidden way down underneith the existing roadway.
Now THATS amazing!!!!!
Great content ......what a downer to see the tunnel silted up .Nice to see running water and fish though.
Thanks Noreen, yes that size of fish was a surprise to me
Just like being there. That's what I adore about these vids. And I'm learning so much too. Mahoosive thanks for posting. :)
Thanks very much Paul
Another fascinating look into the underbelly of our wonderful city. I love these videos, Martin. Your knowledge and passion for the history of Manchester is contagious.
Thanks very much Simon
I love this videos. But I am disheartened by the amount of trash in these rivers. And it's the same in most big cities. As we see there is fish and other life down there. I'm sure there would be volunteers to help pull trash out of sections. Might be an insurance nightmare though. Natural spaces in big cities are so hard to come by, would be great to be able see this old river running through Manchester without the tires etc. down there... Always seems to be about $!
Don't hi. You are right but you should have seen these rivers before. Compared to then they are clean (relatively) now. They've been dumping in Mcr's rivers since Roman times. One of them Hanging Ditch which was quite wide that it needed a double-span bridge was so filled up with unwanted vegetables etc by the 1500's had silted-up. Mcr is a lot cleaner than it was 30 years ago. It was Third World.
Hello Donry, yes the Rubbish troubles me as well
That was like an Enid Blyton story - "Two go on an adventure"!! Loved it, thirty two minutes of being transported back 200 years, it's a different world down there, still looks like it did till you look up, now I know why you were like a dog with two tails. Is the other end of that tunnel navigable or have we got to wait and see??? History is great 👍🐝
Thanks Bob. I appreciate your comment because you get the video and what I think. The other end of the tunnel doesnt exist. I think its blocked, buried, gone. I suspect much of the tunnel is filled in
@@MartinZero In the open river shots if you Photoshopped out the supermarket trolley and turned it B&W you could easily mix it in with the original shots you showed. It's a pity we only see things at eye level as we miss all this fantastic history, meanwhile Manchester grows up around it and leaves these fantastic time warp bywaters to explore without any hindrance. Oh, and thanks to your unseen "helpers"!!! Happy exploring.
Fantastic video, gutted about Dukes tunnel. Has the shaft at the other end been capped and built on? As someone else suggested, I reckon you could get a drain cam down the small gap at the side
I think the other end has long gone. Yes thats a good idea
Looks like you will need the dinghy again 😁
@16:27 "Standby for action. We are about to launch...... Stingray!.........Anything can happen in the next half hour!........"
Loved this and the Refuge Building video. I was born within spitting distance at the old St Mary's Hospital. Thanks Martin
Cracking video Martin, were all gutted that tunnel was blocked. Wonder how far the blockage runs for?
Not sure Les. I think a lot of that tunnel is backfilled to be honest. And thanks very much
Excellent, a new Martin Zero vid to watch with me dinner! A shame the tunnel was filled in, probably done to stop naughty explorers getting inside, ha ha! 😉 The river water looked really clean, with the fish too. Great production, especially with your third cameramen & dinghy provider!
Great fun had by all! A great big 👍👍
Thanks Richy, yep despite the rubbish I think the water is quite clean
So the question remains, if it is filled in. whats on the other side an empty void?
Who knows ?
Brilliant Video and a fascinating a side of Manchester rarely seen. Thanks great work!
Thank you Jo
There is a waterway with in some of the 'stilts' holding the Mancunian Way up. In some of them, they have a door entrance, which leads to these waterways / river, that I always believed was an underground section of the Meddy?
The one I remember best, was by Grosvenor St, Kincardine St, Upper Brook St / Oxford Rd area, under the slip road, on / off the Mancy Way / Upper Brook St.
If it's not the Meddy, I'd be interested to know what / who / where that feed comes from. So many tunnels & stuff built on top of stuff in Mcr!
Never realised there was so much urban history in Manchester - attended the old mancat college that was on hardman st/quay st for a few years. If only you tube had been around 20 odd years ago !! Now the college itself is demolished moved to openshaw & rebuilt as flats I believe !!
Martin, Like you I was so disappointed that Dukes Tunnel appears filled in at the outlet. . Then you teased us with that water flow from the side. It makes me wonder if just the outlet is silted up or was it filled on purpose. I believe you covered the other end in another video. I seem to recall it was not totally plugged. Since you don't appear comfortable with going even a little ways inside the other end, HOW ABOUT A REMOTE CONTROLLED BOAT WITH CAMERA?
if you had the chance Martin and it was safe would you go in that disused canal tunnel thst silted up ?
If it wasnt slited up and blocked yes Norma
I'd be curious if the modern outfall under the pub is Shooters brook because from the video you made on that there's a reasonable flow on it under q-park and into Sackville gardens but after Sackville it was all modern 600mm RCP bar a few man holes. That could well be the other end of that RCP. It certainly can't be running into Dukes tunnel and into the Medlock from there because there was only a trickle coming out of there. One way to verify would be to squirt a bunch of drain tracer dye down the crack in the manhole in either q-park or Sackville gardens and have someone watching to see if it comes out at the pub. If it was running into Dukes tunnel the silting in there would probably be causing a blockage and backing it up when it rains which would probably cause flooding in the bottom level of Q-park which I imagine is why it goes into new RCP after Sackville. That RCP is probably as old as Piccadilly Place because they didn't go to that effort for nothing. Also just looking at Street View at 53.474359, -2.237368 just in front of the stop line for the traffic lights on Princess St outside Joshua Brooks is a man hole cover. The exact same type of man hole cover as the one in Piccadilly Gardens which were probably put in with the RCP as they look much newer than a lot of the other in the area as the others are worn smooth. Shooters brook may well be the reason for the silting of Dukes Tunnel if it was running into there at one point because it was probably to wide to have enough flow to clear it's own silt and slowly blocked it's self causing it to back up towards Piccadilly. I seem to recall you saying in another video about the castlefield basin area when a river runs into a canal it has a tendency to silt it up so I wonder if that's what happened there over the years and if they were forced to do something about it when building Q-park piccadilly gardens to stop it from flooding
Another fantastic video presented with the usual infectious charm. Love the way that you set what we're seeing today into its historic context. My knowledge of Manchester grows by the week! So the nemesis turned out to be nothing more than a watery alcove! Still it's the discovery that matters. Many thanks and can't wait to see the next instalment of this epic adventure.
Thanks Jack. Yes obviously I wanted an adventure down a tunnel but it is what it is. Bloody filled in 😃
That pigeon looks set and dry for quite a while. I wonder if Shooters Brook was redirected into the modern tunnel because of a collapse?
No, the pigeon was getting wet.
Not sure, that tunnel was very dry though
@@gerardjones7881
Naughty Pidgey. Lol 😁
Just watched again and my cheeks hurt from smiling so much. I just adore your enthusiasum
Thanks Sharon 😀
Another brilliant video Martin, shame Duke's tunnel was blocked, that definitely looks like natural silt build up in there.
Thanks Andy and yes I agree
what a shame all this time of what if and it is filled in. but thank you for all your hard work martin you have been a load of wisdom and I will stay to see what more to come and hi from NewZealand
Thanks Adrian, best regards to New Zealand
If he'd found it open you could have done the Hakka for us.😉
Martin,
I've rewatched the Shooters Brook and this video. In the SB video you hypothesise that the SB runs parallel and southeast of Dukes Tunnel (DT), entering the Medlock just upstream of DT. I think you have shown this to be so in this Medlock VII video.
I believe SB emerges from the modern concrete tunnel that is under the high bridge that you discard rather quickly in this video. This tunnel is 600m diameter, the same as the last section explored by the rover in the SB video. It would be most likely that the end section of SB is the same diameter as the previous section that was explored by the rover.
It is quite possible SB once ran through the dry older tunnel with the pigeon nest in the past.
If you go back to the end of the SB video where the rover stopped at a right turn which opened out, you thought that SB may have originally continued ahead to the DT through the small bricked up arch. That is impossible! The SB is to the left of DT. It would need to be on the RIGHT of DT for that to be possible. I think that bricked up arch will be the edge of the foundations of Piccadilly Station.
I believe that you have solved this without realising that you have.
Thankyou for this video and your last one about Grocer's Warehouse. Presumably Duke's Tunnel was built before Grocer's Tunnel, was Brindley responsible for both of them? BobT
The Medlock can obviously go from a trickle like you were walking through to a raging torrent judging by the debris on the bushes!
Yes that was quite scary
Loving these videos for the last few months, great work but why am I becoming a tad obsessed with the mystery of where Shooters Brook meets the Medlock in Dukes tunnel. I bet it’s not far beyond the silted up entrance. If only you could find that manhole where the robot got to. We need closure on this !
I wonder ..... could that flow from Dukes tunnel be coming from Shooters Brook? Great great teamwork to get that video made, well done!!
Awesome video guys. next you will be starting the "Clean up the Medlock campaign" LOL
Clear out Dukes tunnel campaign 😃
@@MartinZero I can't remember can you get into the other end of dukes tunnel?
👍👍🚤⚓️didn't see the smell 😂 but excellent yet again.
The smell was divine 😃