This scene is a shining example of Sorkin's brilliance with this show. The whole episode was about setting up this scene - the campaigning, the logistics, and all of the fluffy nonsense that goes into politics; and at the end, two people with the necessary influence meet someone that they can actually help if they wanted to. This is why Sorkin made this show - to exhibit what government is supposed to be, what we all hope it could be.
jkwdoc this scene everyhing wrong and delusional about the show and that arsehole sorkin. He perpetually sets up episodes to deliver speeches like this because he thinks everyone will be righted by a speech.
@@AjeethRajesh College Tuition Costs have gone up 4x times the rate of inflation and he's looking at a private Catholic school in another state. This guy needs to go back up to his hotel room and tell his daughter to enjoy community college,
I love the small, beautiful moments like this! No international incidents, no national crisis, just real moments in the lives of ordinary people. It's a good reminder that it all comes down to ordinary people living their lives, that's what politicians need to keep sight of.
What a great scene. For those who haven't seen it, throughout the episode Toby has to introduce himself to everyone they meet with "I'm Toby Ziegler and I work at the White House" as a result of losing a bet with Josh, opening him up to a lot of hostility and contempt from the mostly Republican-voting people they meet. This one time he gets himself in really deep and Josh lets him off the hook- but Toby says it anyway because this time he's seen how it's not a punishment, it's an opportunity to make a difference somewhere that matters. It's what politics should be all about. Beautiful.
I loved that show... it had some politics in it but it didn't dig that much if you weren't a republican. This episode was one of the best they ever did. The funny thing about this guy in the bar is... Notre Dame isn't a school you "look at" the way you look at "State University." Of course it's really expensive and hard to get into. If he wanted it to "be just a little easier," he should have gone to Purdue or Indiana or any other state university where the tuition is half the price of ND.
@ArcaneAzmadi … your explanation is the first time I’ve viewed this scene correctly…after watching the series through 7-8 times! I always though Josh’s gesture meant, “Don’t drag me into this guy’s emotional dump…I’m too tired,” which I always thought was pretty compassionless of Josh. Of course, you’re right…and the scene plays so much better with your interpretation…the correct one. Thanks for setting me straight!
@@jcjbike The politics in this show lean Democrat, but they're quite decent to Republicans like Romney or McCain. They're unkind to W, and Trump? They have no respect for anyone like Trump.
Educating one’s children is, imho, the one aspect of raising them that is optional. Giving them the best education you can is “ a man’s job”. A little help from the government would be nice.
One of the best episodes. Top 3 easily. So many great learning moments for these two, and Sam. Donna is so good. And that speech by the President at the end never fails to make me cry. Honestly getting choked up just thinking about it.
The real fun part of this scene is when the following night Toby phones the man to talk about making it “just a little bit easier”. He is blown away by the call.
@BatemanChristian It's just one hell of a big glass of Jack on ice. That'll set you free. This is one of the best later-seasons episodes. The moment where they discover that they've lost an hour because of the time zone thing in Indiana is priceless. "OK, my guys are gonna need a minute to walk this off"
Perhaps, but I'm of a mind it did way more harm than good because Sorkinite liberals are too busy fantasizing about a world where this is real while letting old, out-of-date-and-touch career politicians let the concept of progressiveness in this country die a little more each day because it might threaten their job security if they try something new and imaginative. =/
Maybe not, maybe yes, but imho it was a great way to provide the American people with the background to their government. A pity, again my opinion from an outsider, that it has been so divisive over the past 5 years.
In hindsight, everything about these two episodes seems like it was written backwards. Probably not. I'm probably wrong, but it feels like everything that happens between Josh and Toby is to get to this moment, cuz it's such a feel good opportunity for the audience. It's like they wrote this scene at the bar first, and then they were like, okay how do we get these two schlubs at the bar with this guy who basically represents the audience? How do we make this scene happen? All the craziness and Toby losing the bet to Josh all that seems like it's a set up for this magical moment. The punchline to a very well crafted joke, that's so deliciously not funny.
I mean, you are right and that's the point. Often times, writers will craft the end and figure out how to get there. You have a message/theme, a beginning and an end. It's about creating context, and re-establishing that message/theme.
It's Indiana. Hence Notre Dame, the Colts posters, and the county-to-county time zone changes (in that ep). They're supposed to be in a hotel near the Indianapolis airport.
I love this scene so much. And later when Toby calls this guy, part of me imagines that the end of the conversation goes, "Oh, and by the way, your consultant fee for inspiring this measure is just about exactly the cost of 4 years at Notre Dame....which, by the way, your daughter has been accepted to." I mean, if we're all crying anyway, let's go all the way, right?
What I like about this is that the guy's political views aren't important. It doesn't matter who he voted for or what he believes. He is just a guy trying to do what is best for his kids. I feel like we have lost that with click bait media and everyone choosing sides. Most of the problems we face are things we all go through and we aren't going to fix them until we put petty tribal allegiances away and actually demand that things get better.
@baberg1492 No it doesn't. If you remember, after Bartlet's conversation in private with the speaker, it's left in the budget. Josh even hugs Toby because of it.
This was near the close of the episode. The next episode Toby and Josh come up with the idea to make college tuition tax deductible and a good portion of the rest of the season (passing the budget, etc) deals with getting that through Congress. It ultimately fails.
you didnt get it. the man at the bar is not asking for hand outs or short cuts, hes saying he is willing to work hard for what he gives to his family. it's stupid to you because you just heard a line and didnt see the character for who he was; a man who is happy to do whats hard to provide. and if you were a parent youd know that its never easy and to always expect it to be hard work. but he doesnt mind because the hard work will pay off.
@Phelanyou missed the point completely. Was it easy for me to get my kids through college, no, it was not. but I did it, that accomplishment no one can take away from me. My kids are better off then I was at their age, I helped give them that, that in doing so was hard makes me appreciate the results that much more. I did not want a hand out, glad we never took any, and am damn proud of what we accomplished. Clearly you're not a parent, you'll think differently when you are.
I think Phelan was complaining that the line was it's a *mans* job. Can't say I agree with them that it was a bad line. I doubt if this was CJ and Amy talking to a women who said it's a women's job they would still complain.
I miss the abiding good will and simple sanity portrayed in this show. What if, we all aspired to govern with benevolence and sobriety, and to find representatives and officials who wanted the same?
I know Toby can be difficult, but every time I get frustrated with him I think back to this scene. He acts like an a-hole a lot because he's extremely principled and uncompromising. When it comes down to helping people I don't think there's anyone else on the show who cares more about the common man.
Toby is well-played as a frustrated idealist. I think my favorite defining moment of his in the 1st season Christmas episode, when Pres. Bartlet asks him if he doesn't think every homeless veteran will "start coming out of the woodwork". His answer? "I can only hope so". What a great way to simply but concisely convey the depth of his feeling.
it's so goddamn perfect. Toby wants to talk to him, and so of course he has to tell him at some point that he works at the White House. but the fact that he does it at the beginning, even when Josh waved him off, shows how much he respects the bet. it's a small thing, in the context of what ends up happening, but still....note perfect, just like so much on the West Wing.
Yeah, it's not because of the bet. It's because he wants to really talk with this guy about something really important to people. And that is because of what Donna had said earlier to Toby and Josh.
No it doesn't. It gets passed in the next season during the shutdown of the United States Government when the President and Speaker of the House are negotiating the Budget
+Kamal Tej STILL A TOP TIER TV SHOW...all these humble years later!! I'm thankful I got to watch this back in the day thanks to my Mom for introducing it to me...and all these years later I smile through the tears wishing she could watch one more episode! Cheers!
Alex Singh I understand completely. Apples and Oranges....which I like both...lol. I enjoyed The Newsroom for the three seasons it was on and of course House of Cards draws me in! I happen to watch the British version many years ago on PBS and it was smashing as The Brits would say! Cheers
Do you think this could happen? Do you think this could be real? We see politicians every day on television.... talking about how much they know and how smart they are and how they know what the voters want, but do you think they ever just sit down and ask? What would that feel like? ... to have someone with power and influence and money who is willing to humble themselves enough to truly sit down and listen to an average guy's problems. I've watched this clip a dozen times, and I've met a few politicians, and the ones I've met were always charming, but distant... aloof almost. They had an answer for everything, and it always felt rehearsed. I'd like to think politicians listen. I'd like to think they care more about real people and less about polling numbers and sound bites and partisanship.... but it doesn't feel that way. They don't feel like real people. They don't talk as if life is complex, and real problems are challenging. They talk like a television commercial. I used to wish this clip could be something that really happened.... but the more I see of the world and the more I hear of modern politics, the more I doubt it could be true.... and that's just sad.
For once I want a politician to say, 'im not the smartest in the room, and that's why I listen to what others have to say. To gain their perception and input. Because I work for the people not myself' and I want them to mean it.
It's tv fantasy. The politicians get their talking points from the big donors and K street lobbyists. Have you noticed neither party cares what we think about illegal immigration? And many other topics?
Bartlet is running for reelection and visiting various parts of the country when josh, Toby and Donna get seperated from everyone else. Earlier in the episode, Toby loses a bet to Josh and has to say "I work at the white house" everytime he introduces himself. This is because they are in a red state and everytime he mentions working in a Whitehouse, it usually brings some derision from whomever he is speaking to. Additionally, Josh and Toby, used to being powerful and influential people, tend to gloss over pretty much everyone they run into throughout the episode. In the scene just before the one in the video, Donna gets up in their face about this fact. Then this scene happens, and we get a pay off for "I work at the white house" and the culmination of the moral of the episode.
The West Wing is probably my favorite show but it does have minor flaws at times. Never in my life have I ever walked into a bar with a friend and sat at different ends from them.
Josh was finishing his drink and went to sit down on one side while Toby walked closet where the bartender would be to get a drink for himself. Faith had it where Toby met that man taking his daughter to visit Notre Dame...
Toby should propose rolling back student loans if he wants to make college more affordable. College is so expensive because the Federal government provides cheap credit (student loans) which drives up demand. Colleges raise their tuition to capture the subsidy. The student is left with the debt and the taxpayer takes the risk.
Is it entirely unreasonable (considering the compensation-package) that we expect corporate leadership to accommodate a multifaceted challenge to the culture which sustains them and their enterprise
It is not only unethical, but it is self-destructive to limit the country's ability to foster smart, creative, and productive minds because of an overblown perception of how capitalism and competition should work. (Spoiler: Most corporations don't want competition and they prefer oligarchies over democracies and republics because of their own selfish greed) In this day an age more people are not getting the education they need because they can't afford college, they can't even afford the student loan which is getting more restrictive due to far right suppression, and the public schools are being limited in what they teach which in turn lowers the number of actual candidates for grants and scholarships. Our country is actually suffering from an overall drop in intelligence. It is no wonder more people buy into madeup "facts" by QAnon, why there is a resurgence and actual growth in anti-vaxxers, and why we had people storm the Capitol claiming stolen elections who hadn't even voted in the general election. And yet we continue to praise Elon Musk because he is putting us on Mars. We let Jeff Bezos abuse his employees so we can get our Playstations for Christmas. We follow Warren Buffett in his investment solutions that will not keep us in our homes the next time the housing bubble bursts. And we worry more about whether Kim Kardashian is going to divorce whatshisface than we worry more about how there are more hurricanes hitting the US every year, killing people and destroying their homes. This is our overall IQ at work, people. Because nobody is able to learn anything. And we've already crossed the point where people won't learn anything even if the opportunities become easier to actually enter college.
Yeah no. Here's the thing, the monologue is great, but it doesn't go anywhere. This is why I don't like the West Wing that much. It's all academic theory and speeches. I don't mind some of that but I'd like to see some actual change happen and I never really saw that. It comes across as just a shinier version of Clinton era Democrats to me, a lot of talk and flash but not much substance. Also, the part about it being a "man's job" or whatever he said, to put his kids through college combined with comments made throughout the show about many of the female characters comes across kind of misogynistic, like this guy's wife has no agency in her kids getting to college except for bringing in a token salary.
Edward Shaw: Wow. I think you already had a preconceived idea about this show. Maybe you haven't looked at the federal government lately. There's a lot that doesn't get done because of partisan politics. So this is pretty realistic. Anyway, you went out of your way to criticize the show, so don't get mad when I tell you that you're just complaining to hear yourself "talk". And if you're complaining about real presidents not getting things done, let's not forget Trump.
Price controls limit the quality and quantity of any product. If a doctor or a university professor had their salary capped at let's say 80,000, there would be less smart people entering those professions. Having said that Colleges, and State Lotteries are the two biggest scams going on in America today.
I absolutely agree. What happens today is colleges continuously raise prices to “capture” the value of tax breaks and grants. We’d be better ending such handouts to rich colleges and make them justify their tuition costs directly with their applicants. They might have to discontinue some useless majors and let go non-teaching administrators to offer a better value to students.
This sentiment is why the US is a center-left country and why you'll never see folks like Bernie Sanders leading anything. Quiet confidence and pride in the work you achieve by your own ability, with that bit of support from the government to help make sure that the ends meet. Single payer, free college, $1000 per month for simply breathing air, etc are ideas that don't get majority support in the country because the American ethos doesn't stand by any of that
This scene is a shining example of Sorkin's brilliance with this show. The whole episode was about setting up this scene - the campaigning, the logistics, and all of the fluffy nonsense that goes into politics; and at the end, two people with the necessary influence meet someone that they can actually help if they wanted to. This is why Sorkin made this show - to exhibit what government is supposed to be, what we all hope it could be.
What an insightful take, jkwdoc. Cheers.
jkwdoc this scene everyhing wrong and delusional about the show and that arsehole sorkin. He perpetually sets up episodes to deliver speeches like this because he thinks everyone will be righted by a speech.
jimmyfly dude’s drunk and lost his money. He’s venting
@@AjeethRajesh College Tuition Costs have gone up 4x times the rate of inflation and he's looking at a private Catholic school in another state. This guy needs to go back up to his hotel room and tell his daughter to enjoy community college,
And what we have now is a tweeting pyscopath who probably has Escobar's buddies on speed dial.
I watched this scene many years ago before I was a dad. Now that I have a 10 year old, this scene means so much more to me. Still very relevant.
"I'm Toby Ziegler...and I work at the White House." I pumped my first in the air and said "YES!" because it was basically perfect. What a great scene!
I love the small, beautiful moments like this! No international incidents, no national crisis, just real moments in the lives of ordinary people. It's a good reminder that it all comes down to ordinary people living their lives, that's what politicians need to keep sight of.
What a great scene. For those who haven't seen it, throughout the episode Toby has to introduce himself to everyone they meet with "I'm Toby Ziegler and I work at the White House" as a result of losing a bet with Josh, opening him up to a lot of hostility and contempt from the mostly Republican-voting people they meet. This one time he gets himself in really deep and Josh lets him off the hook- but Toby says it anyway because this time he's seen how it's not a punishment, it's an opportunity to make a difference somewhere that matters. It's what politics should be all about. Beautiful.
I loved that show... it had some politics in it but it didn't dig that much if you weren't a republican. This episode was one of the best they ever did. The funny thing about this guy in the bar is... Notre Dame isn't a school you "look at" the way you look at "State University." Of course it's really expensive and hard to get into. If he wanted it to "be just a little easier," he should have gone to Purdue or Indiana or any other state university where the tuition is half the price of ND.
AA, spot on
Context makes Josh less of an ass 99% of the time 😄
@ArcaneAzmadi … your explanation is the first time I’ve viewed this scene correctly…after watching the series through 7-8 times! I always though Josh’s gesture meant, “Don’t drag me into this guy’s emotional dump…I’m too tired,” which I always thought was pretty compassionless of Josh.
Of course, you’re right…and the scene plays so much better with your interpretation…the correct one. Thanks for setting me straight!
@@jcjbike The politics in this show lean Democrat, but they're quite decent to Republicans like Romney or McCain. They're unkind to W, and Trump? They have no respect for anyone like Trump.
"put your daughter thru college, that is a men's job", this simple scene seeps profoundly into my soul.
Satan's propaganda. God would say 'Go forth and multiply'.
Educating one’s children is, imho, the one aspect of raising them that is optional. Giving them the best education you can is “ a man’s job”. A little help from the government would be nice.
One of the best episodes. Top 3 easily. So many great learning moments for these two, and Sam. Donna is so good. And that speech by the President at the end never fails to make me cry. Honestly getting choked up just thinking about it.
One of my favourite scenes, I'd imagine a re-election campaign being fought on this man's suggestion to Toby.
The acting in this scene is monumental.
That's how real politicians should think and act, this show makes my day
The real fun part of this scene is when the following night Toby phones the man to talk about making it “just a little bit easier”. He is blown away by the call.
@BatemanChristian It's just one hell of a big glass of Jack on ice. That'll set you free.
This is one of the best later-seasons episodes. The moment where they discover that they've lost an hour because of the time zone thing in Indiana is priceless. "OK, my guys are gonna need a minute to walk this off"
the GREATEST show in the h i s t o r y of television.
Perhaps, but I'm of a mind it did way more harm than good because Sorkinite liberals are too busy fantasizing about a world where this is real while letting old, out-of-date-and-touch career politicians let the concept of progressiveness in this country die a little more each day because it might threaten their job security if they try something new and imaginative. =/
Maybe not, maybe yes, but imho it was a great way to provide the American people with the background to their government. A pity, again my opinion from an outsider, that it has been so divisive over the past 5 years.
In hindsight, everything about these two episodes seems like it was written backwards. Probably not. I'm probably wrong, but it feels like everything that happens between Josh and Toby is to get to this moment, cuz it's such a feel good opportunity for the audience. It's like they wrote this scene at the bar first, and then they were like, okay how do we get these two schlubs at the bar with this guy who basically represents the audience? How do we make this scene happen? All the craziness and Toby losing the bet to Josh all that seems like it's a set up for this magical moment. The punchline to a very well crafted joke, that's so deliciously not funny.
I mean, you are right and that's the point. Often times, writers will craft the end and figure out how to get there. You have a message/theme, a beginning and an end. It's about creating context, and re-establishing that message/theme.
It's Indiana. Hence Notre Dame, the Colts posters, and the county-to-county time zone changes (in that ep). They're supposed to be in a hotel near the Indianapolis airport.
I love this scene so much. And later when Toby calls this guy, part of me imagines that the end of the conversation goes, "Oh, and by the way, your consultant fee for inspiring this measure is just about exactly the cost of 4 years at Notre Dame....which, by the way, your daughter has been accepted to."
I mean, if we're all crying anyway, let's go all the way, right?
I like that ending idea a lot.
But he doesn't want paying for his daughter's college to be easy. He likes that it is hard. It's an accomplishment.
It's sugar OR sweetner. Don't use both.
What I like about this is that the guy's political views aren't important. It doesn't matter who he voted for or what he believes. He is just a guy trying to do what is best for his kids. I feel like we have lost that with click bait media and everyone choosing sides. Most of the problems we face are things we all go through and we aren't going to fix them until we put petty tribal allegiances away and actually demand that things get better.
One of my favorite scenes.
@baberg1492 No it doesn't. If you remember, after Bartlet's conversation in private with the speaker, it's left in the budget. Josh even hugs Toby because of it.
I don’t know who this actor is, but he’s excellent here. The tone is just perfect. I need to watch thIs series rather than snippets on RUclips.
I have watched the entire Series at least 3x. I say go for it!
Such a beautiful scene. Chimes with many parents.
Ugh. These two episodes were ducking great!! The last v half hour? If this one is just inspiring
@baberg1492 It doesn't fail. When the Predident and the Speaker work out the budget it becomes a tax cut.
This was near the close of the episode. The next episode Toby and Josh come up with the idea to make college tuition tax deductible and a good portion of the rest of the season (passing the budget, etc) deals with getting that through Congress.
It ultimately fails.
"It should be hard. I like that it's hard."
you didnt get it. the man at the bar is not asking for hand outs or short cuts, hes saying he is willing to work hard for what he gives to his family. it's stupid to you because you just heard a line and didnt see the character for who he was; a man who is happy to do whats hard to provide. and if you were a parent youd know that its never easy and to always expect it to be hard work. but he doesnt mind because the hard work will pay off.
@Phelanyou missed the point completely. Was it easy for me to get my kids through college, no, it was not. but I did it, that accomplishment no one can take away from me. My kids are better off then I was at their age, I helped give them that, that in doing so was hard makes me appreciate the results that much more. I did not want a hand out, glad we never took any, and am damn proud of what we accomplished. Clearly you're not a parent, you'll think differently when you are.
I think Phelan was complaining that the line was it's a *mans* job.
Can't say I agree with them that it was a bad line. I doubt if this was CJ and Amy talking to a women who said it's a women's job they would still complain.
That’s what she said!
Explains how he has a daughter
I miss the abiding good will and simple sanity portrayed in this show. What if, we all aspired to govern with benevolence and sobriety, and to find representatives and officials who wanted the same?
I know Toby can be difficult, but every time I get frustrated with him I think back to this scene. He acts like an a-hole a lot because he's extremely principled and uncompromising. When it comes down to helping people I don't think there's anyone else on the show who cares more about the common man.
Toby is well-played as a frustrated idealist. I think my favorite defining moment of his in the 1st season Christmas episode, when Pres. Bartlet asks him if he doesn't think every homeless veteran will "start coming out of the woodwork". His answer? "I can only hope so". What a great way to simply but concisely convey the depth of his feeling.
it's so goddamn perfect. Toby wants to talk to him, and so of course he has to tell him at some point that he works at the White House. but the fact that he does it at the beginning, even when Josh waved him off, shows how much he respects the bet. it's a small thing, in the context of what ends up happening, but still....note perfect, just like so much on the West Wing.
He didn't see Josh wave him off.
@@MrJamberee . Yes he did. But Will above is mistaken... this is the one instance where Toby WANTS to mention it, because it's relevant.
Yeah, it's not because of the bet. It's because he wants to really talk with this guy about something really important to people. And that is because of what Donna had said earlier to Toby and Josh.
this scene hits me so differently watching it before and after i became a father. it should be a little easier
What’s the next scene called cause he calls this guy to give him an update on what they are working on
The staff bring up this guy later on in the season when they propose a bill about either taxes or higher education.
Does anyone believe this gentleman is NOT a real dad working hard to give his oldest child her dream ?
This is video, explains everything
Just a little easier, that difference is everything.
No it doesn't. It gets passed in the next season during the shutdown of the United States Government when the President and Speaker of the House are negotiating the Budget
That’s Toby. Josh told him no, Josh should of known.
Powerful scene!!
What tv show is this?
+Kamal Tej STILL A TOP TIER TV SHOW...all these humble years later!! I'm thankful I got to watch this back in the day thanks to my Mom for introducing it to me...and all these years later I smile through the tears wishing she could watch one more episode! Cheers!
+kingofallwhites Greatest TV Show of all time
The West Wing
Alex Singh At least one of the Best Ever!
***** Im proper comservative, and I still love it..
brilliant.. watching House of Cards.. just not even close to the wing
Alex Singh I understand completely. Apples and Oranges....which I like both...lol. I enjoyed The Newsroom for the three seasons it was on and of course House of Cards draws me in! I happen to watch the British version many years ago on PBS and it was smashing as The Brits would say! Cheers
Do you think this could happen? Do you think this could be real? We see politicians every day on television.... talking about how much they know and how smart they are and how they know what the voters want, but do you think they ever just sit down and ask? What would that feel like? ... to have someone with power and influence and money who is willing to humble themselves enough to truly sit down and listen to an average guy's problems. I've watched this clip a dozen times, and I've met a few politicians, and the ones I've met were always charming, but distant... aloof almost. They had an answer for everything, and it always felt rehearsed.
I'd like to think politicians listen. I'd like to think they care more about real people and less about polling numbers and sound bites and partisanship.... but it doesn't feel that way. They don't feel like real people. They don't talk as if life is complex, and real problems are challenging. They talk like a television commercial.
I used to wish this clip could be something that really happened.... but the more I see of the world and the more I hear of modern politics, the more I doubt it could be true.... and that's just sad.
For once I want a politician to say, 'im not the smartest in the room, and that's why I listen to what others have to say. To gain their perception and input. Because I work for the people not myself' and I want them to mean it.
Vote Bernie 2020 (or progressive). He listens. He's been fighting for the man on street all of his life. Read. Listen.
It's tv fantasy. The politicians get their talking points from the big donors and K street lobbyists. Have you noticed neither party cares what we think about illegal immigration? And many other topics?
AOC has been doing online game streaming recently. That is just about the modern day equivalent.
I've never seen this episode. What happens?
Everybody dies in the end.............
@@nudist0885 hey ! Spoiler alert !
I had forgotten that I posted that comment............HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
Bartlet is running for reelection and visiting various parts of the country when josh, Toby and Donna get seperated from everyone else.
Earlier in the episode, Toby loses a bet to Josh and has to say "I work at the white house" everytime he introduces himself. This is because they are in a red state and everytime he mentions working in a Whitehouse, it usually brings some derision from whomever he is speaking to.
Additionally, Josh and Toby, used to being powerful and influential people, tend to gloss over pretty much everyone they run into throughout the episode. In the scene just before the one in the video, Donna gets up in their face about this fact.
Then this scene happens, and we get a pay off for "I work at the white house" and the culmination of the moral of the episode.
@BatemanChristian
Good call. Looks like Jack and Coke.
The West Wing is probably my favorite show but it does have minor flaws at times. Never in my life have I ever walked into a bar with a friend and sat at different ends from them.
Josh was finishing his drink and went to sit down on one side while Toby walked closet where the bartender would be to get a drink for himself. Faith had it where Toby met that man taking his daughter to visit Notre Dame...
They were pretty pissed at each other in the context of this episode, so that actually makes sense.
2nd episode of season 3
Season 4 - 20 Hours in America Part 2
Toby should propose rolling back student loans if he wants to make college more affordable. College is so expensive because the Federal government provides cheap credit (student loans) which drives up demand. Colleges raise their tuition to capture the subsidy. The student is left with the debt and the taxpayer takes the risk.
watching the west wing should be mandatory for any elected official before entering their office...
Is it entirely unethical that corporate leadership focus upon "return to investors" in light of this soliloquy'?
Is it entirely unreasonable (considering the compensation-package) that we expect corporate leadership to accommodate a multifaceted challenge to the culture which sustains them and their enterprise
It is not only unethical, but it is self-destructive to limit the country's ability to foster smart, creative, and productive minds because of an overblown perception of how capitalism and competition should work.
(Spoiler: Most corporations don't want competition and they prefer oligarchies over democracies and republics because of their own selfish greed)
In this day an age more people are not getting the education they need because they can't afford college, they can't even afford the student loan which is getting more restrictive due to far right suppression, and the public schools are being limited in what they teach which in turn lowers the number of actual candidates for grants and scholarships.
Our country is actually suffering from an overall drop in intelligence. It is no wonder more people buy into madeup "facts" by QAnon, why there is a resurgence and actual growth in anti-vaxxers, and why we had people storm the Capitol claiming stolen elections who hadn't even voted in the general election.
And yet we continue to praise Elon Musk because he is putting us on Mars. We let Jeff Bezos abuse his employees so we can get our Playstations for Christmas. We follow Warren Buffett in his investment solutions that will not keep us in our homes the next time the housing bubble bursts. And we worry more about whether Kim Kardashian is going to divorce whatshisface than we worry more about how there are more hurricanes hitting the US every year, killing people and destroying their homes.
This is our overall IQ at work, people. Because nobody is able to learn anything. And we've already crossed the point where people won't learn anything even if the opportunities become easier to actually enter college.
Undermodulated. Big time.
this would be sooo much easier to sell to voters nowadays than "free college for everyone"!
Yeah no. Here's the thing, the monologue is great, but it doesn't go anywhere. This is why I don't like the West Wing that much. It's all academic theory and speeches. I don't mind some of that but I'd like to see some actual change happen and I never really saw that. It comes across as just a shinier version of Clinton era Democrats to me, a lot of talk and flash but not much substance. Also, the part about it being a "man's job" or whatever he said, to put his kids through college combined with comments made throughout the show about many of the female characters comes across kind of misogynistic, like this guy's wife has no agency in her kids getting to college except for bringing in a token salary.
Edward Shaw: Wow. I think you already had a preconceived idea about this show. Maybe you haven't looked at the federal government lately. There's a lot that doesn't get done because of partisan politics. So this is pretty realistic. Anyway, you went out of your way to criticize the show, so don't get mad when I tell you that you're just complaining to hear yourself "talk". And if you're complaining about real presidents not getting things done, let's not forget Trump.
Straw man scriptwriting
Why not pass a law to force colleges and universities to lower their tuition instead of using taxpayer money to subsidize them?
Price controls limit the quality and quantity of any product. If a doctor or a university professor had their salary capped at let's say 80,000, there would be less smart people entering those professions. Having said that Colleges, and State Lotteries are the two biggest scams going on in America today.
I absolutely agree. What happens today is colleges continuously raise prices to “capture” the value of tax breaks and grants. We’d be better ending such handouts to rich colleges and make them justify their tuition costs directly with their applicants. They might have to discontinue some useless majors and let go non-teaching administrators to offer a better value to students.
This sentiment is why the US is a center-left country and why you'll never see folks like Bernie Sanders leading anything.
Quiet confidence and pride in the work you achieve by your own ability, with that bit of support from the government to help make sure that the ends meet.
Single payer, free college, $1000 per month for simply breathing air, etc are ideas that don't get majority support in the country because the American ethos doesn't stand by any of that
What would the Trump West Wing show look like
I have heard that veep is one of the most accurate depiction of how politics works behind the scenes.
A gameshow.
😱