My grandfathers and great grandfathers worked in all male environments and were members of many social organizations, church, their wives organized bridge clubs at the house, and had huge families. The way society naturally was back them made friendships effortless. And they used to work six days a week back then, but they still had the time for socializing.
Think of the ramification of that: If men mostly hang out with guys, and it tends to create tension with girls, what happens when we go from all male to 50/50 workplaceS? It means 100% to 50% of potential friendships reduction. Not many hang out with opposite gender and if they have a partner it will not be so popular. So that is a huge one. Same goes for women when they were home wives.
I think more present fathers have also effected the dynamic. Like you said the men were working a lot while the women tended to the children. I work in a clinical environment and I cannot tell you how many old men have stories about working then going drinking at the local bar and just getting into shenanigans. Now-a-days I feel people rush home before the kids go to bed just to get a bit of time with them. Obviously it’s amazing that men are trying to be more present but of course everything has trade offs.
I have a like 6 fantastic mates and the only reason i have these guys, is because these guys appreciate the talks, brutal honesty and friendship we share for eachother. Talk to your brothers guys, real deep talk. We need it.
I think that it's hard to find people on the same page. I like deep talk, but is my deep talk and yours the same as yours? A great video is the TED talk of Barbra Sher "Isolation is the dream Killer". I want to start a group but I'm not sure how to even get people to join.
The older I get, my old friends seem to have less and less in common with me. You get to the point where you wonder who the hell these people are anymore and why you even still hang out with them.
@@redwatch1100 this is an excellent point. I think most people over 30 can relate. We change through our life experiences, and others often don’t change in the same way (how could they?). This makes it even more relevant for people to find way and skills to make new friends as they change and their lives and goals no longer align with earlier friends. Very well put.
Well said, all very good points, I have stopped hanging out with people I have nothing in common with, as we age it's harder to make new friends and one of the reasons is everyone has such busy lives. Just keep going guys, if you wake up in the morning stick your elbows out and don't feel mahogany it's not going to be such a bad day,.
Most of what we consider “friends” are really just “acquaintances” Real friendship requires openness and truly being yourself with your friends which sadly is very difficult to do nowadays because most “friends” are in competition with each other instead of getting each other’s backs.
@@baustin11111 I did an experiment with people I thought would be in my life forever, well at the time it seemed so because we were in the service together. Sure enough after we all left and went our separate ways I pondered and every year I'd remember their birthdays and send them an email or text with a birthday wish and checking in on how life was. Sure enough, I did not receive any birthday wish or yearly message from any of them, only a response when I reached out on their birthdays. Then I stopped sending emails etc. and still to this day I wonder, do they even remember me? I don't beat myself up over it because to be honest my wife is my best friend and though its not bro time we enjoy most of our time with similar activities, we also have three young sons who I look forward to growing older with just so we can have grownup bro times of our own. Either way, never give up on yourself. There is always someone somewhere who will be by you one day, just let life happen naturally and by accident.
People these days are so fucking transactional, you’re only kept around as long as you’re useful. If you lose the utility your “friendship” is valued at near zero. (edit) someone is threatening me and I could use some votes on my community page on what to do if you have time. 😪
Agreed I said this the other day , I always showed up did what I could to help friends . When I went through a hard time watched everyone of my friends leave at some point except 2 ( true mates ) people only want you around on their terms and what you offer for them . World sucks .
One of the books on my reading list is called: "Games that people play" by Eric Berne. It's about Transactional Analysis. Yeah, it's often transactions. Sadly a lot of people like to just take and rarely give back.
Yes, lately i've dropped out of my music band because they have said I'm sounding like sh!t and they forbid me to play, week before our first gig (even thou only two of fourteen set tracks were half baked). One of these guys I have thought of as a pretty close friend and he did nothing to sort things out (even taking in consideration that he was the leader), also they used me by taking some of my money to pay for few things (luckly not much) because all of them are living almost on debt.
As a 50+ Aussie male who grew up in the country, I can easily name 10+ guys I grew up with died by suicide in their teens & 20’s. Well before mental health was acknowledged. I truly hope my son’s generation follows a different path
Yep, definitely agree .. also Aussie and right on point. The “macho men do not cry drink your your beer and man up” culture did not help … fortunately times are changing … mental health really only is being talked about post Covid
Lived in Perth for 12 years, the way it is here is one big race to the top, by snitching and back stabbing rather than hard work. It means that people you work with are colleagues and not work-mates, it's very sad.
Wow that really hit home. We tragically lost our 17yo son to suicide. In 6 days it will be 6 years ago. It changed those of us who were lucky/unlucky to remain lives forever. So much of what was discussed here hit home not only for my son but myself. His death resulted in the end of our marriage (there was no recovery). And now I am living a much lonelier life in my 50’s as a single male. It is hard to make new friends and your comments about loneliness also hit home. I’ve never thought about the shoulder to shoulder concept. That makes so much sense. Thank you for covering these vital topics 🙏
Strength to you Jamie, reading your message floored me with emotion. We lost our youngest daughter 2 years ago next month to suicide. Keep going and try not blame yourself , it's hard but it helps. Your courage to write this message helped me to respond. Big handshake from the heart.
@@blairbrown7848 I embrace your handshake from the heart Blair. It’s a sorrow that only those who’ve been through it truly understand and that number is tragically way to high. Thank you for the courage to comment also. My thoughts & support are with you & your family ♥️
My sympathies Jamie. I lost my 18 year old son three years ago, in a car accident. Even still I know I can’t fully comprehend your loss. My marriage was already on the ropes and has since ended. The biggest challenge is that most of my current friends are still married, so limited time for outside activities. Having said that, I am doing my best to be active and still getting friend time in. Men need to be doing something in my experience, not a lot of heart to heart over coffee.
Not really, I'm 47 and I have found all my life that antisocial people tend to be held in high regard and always have tons of followers, even ones who've done prison time for rape, assault, stalking etc. Conscientious people do *not* have that automatic 'clout' and worship everywhere they go. Maybe Canadians are just degenerates, who knows.
I'll be honest, I never understood the need for friendship or even socialising. I do it because it is expected, but I prefer to be on my own, and I seem to have no interest in other people, which makes all my relationships extremely shallow. I prefer the company of my dogs. Relationships with women apart from their suffocating neediness often suck precicely because they crave to be social. I suffer through all that for mainly the sex. I don't remember a time I felt lonely, but I did see it in my dog, which is why I rescued another dog to keep her company.
@@Brakka86 Nothing wrong with natural introversion. Only problem is that in our culture, young women find it unacceptable so young guys have to tolerate image-based pecking-order crap just to attract a dumb female :)
I’m generally like that now. Mainly due to not enough time and my hobbies and family taking the remaining free time. My wife understands me enough that we live comfortably and I’m so grateful to have her but she suckers me into her social endeavors and I always feel like a pay a big price out of my mental energy. It’s hard for others to fully understand this.
I was a kid in the 60’s and 70’s, retired now. From my perspective society seems much more competitive and status oriented than ever before. People are more judgmental, hot tempered and generally egotistical. The term “road rage” didn’t exist when was young. It’s fairly common now. I see all kinds of weird forms aggression on the road when driving. Generally, people seemed more friendly, humble, thoughtful and kind when I was young. It’s a more hostile world today. On the why end of things. As I said previously, I think it is the pursuit of status, wealth and material things. That combined with an immersion into on-line worlds of fantasy. Everyone one is involved with that and avoiding actual one-on-one interaction with people.
I just retired too. A few things were different back then. People were not so rude and selfish. Public idiocy was not tolerated well. If you “got in someone’s face” or treated another with the level of disrespect I see in society today, you would be eating knuckles and picking your teeth up off the ground for dessert. There are zero consequences for people’s behavior now.
@@FloofusTheCat Nah, he's right. I say this as a 23 yr old. Social Media has made everyone way more competitive and judgmental. For all human history, you were only in competition with the people in your community. If you had a 6 pack (just an example) you were considered special. Now that we have social media, the pool of competition went from the people in your community to literally everyone in the world. Now, women have to compete with edited photos of people who are already supermodels. They will see the supermodel's man take her out for a $50k dinner and then fly her to Dubai, then they get upset their man can't/isn't doing that for them. Men have to compete with supermodels too, and they have to compete with a billionaire's son who can fly their desired woman in from anywhere and take her anywhere to eat and can buy her anything she wants. The worst part is that average men and women will see these popular Instagram influencers and truly believe they DESERVE that level too (they don't), and they don't even account for the fact that these Instagram profiles are curated make the owner's life look 10x better than it actually is. Now we have men who will only settle for the supermodel (despite being a 6/10 on their best day), women will only settle for the billionaire. Obviously this doesn't apply to everyone but there are lot of NPC's in the world.
I made friends with an old homeless fella, who lived under the overpass near me, in Yokohama. About 12 years ago, when I first moved here and I passed him on the way to the station, he'd shout "Ringo Starr!" which made me chuckle. When family and friends were over from England, I'd made a point of stopping to say hello to him and saying "who do I look like?", and when he said "Ringo Starr, Beatles!" they'd be in stitches as well. So, from buying him a bottle of water on hot days, popping in the convenience store for him if he was hungry, buying him a pocket transistor radio and gloves for Christmas and stuff like that, I got to know him a bit better. I haven't seen him for a few months now, his mobility was becoming chronically bad, and I think he's been taken off the streets by the authorities. I always look around the underpass on the way to the station, but I sadly don't really expect he'll come back. Friendship developing has no chance unless the two potential friends are prepared to find a bit of time for each other though.
@avairal5936 I was gonna say, even in Los Angeles it was still hypothermia weather at night even as of 2 months ago. When it rains, people die of hypothermia, but people also die of it from the dew if they don't have a tent AND a sleeping bag. Anything below 50 degrees is hypothermia, but the 50s is also hypothermia weather, except it takes 3-6 hours to die of hypothermia versus 3 hour or less in the 40s
Incremental femini*t belief system has branched off into patriarchal control of a variety of things that men do or are going to do. Treating a woman like a queen at the expense of the man's mental health is an involuntarily narcissistic short or longterm plan it seems. I'm not just a Uniform
@@redwatch1100 What you say has a large amount to deal with it currently, but when I look at men I know the generation before me, they're the same, My father, uncles, grandfather, etc. They have friends from college and childhood, or the military, but no new friends after they were in their 20s. At least not on a meaningful level. I think this has been a problem for quite a while now. Social media has definitely made it more difficult though, its one of the reasons I lost my best friend of 20+ years.
The latter part of the conversation with regards to men taking their own lives is so important. I work at a crematorium in UK as a gardener (but also help work the chapel and the machines also) and you would be surprised at how many young men we receive. I see the families that pass through the chapel and the impact it has on them. As someone who has suffered with depression at times in my life, the one common theme is always the feeling of being useless or not of need. We as a planet have to halt this phenomenon. We’ve become more connected than ever through our phones and technology, yet we are now more separated as a result. I hope we can find a solution before more lives are cut short.
Yep … the value of human life has cheapened driven by corporate profits and political self interest… erosion of national values, globalization of manufacturing, social media etc 😢 I am in my 40s and feel very lucky to have had my teenage years in the 90s with real friends and those holiday adventures away from screens
Friendships die because a lot of men don't make any effort to actually maintain friendships. They put everything and anything before their friendships. I've had many friends over the years that I lost contact with because they wouldn't put any effort towards the friendship. Once I stopped calling or texting them, I never heard from them again.
Going through that exact thing at the moment, I noticed that unless I initiated contact I'd never hear from them, so I decided to see how long it would take before I heard from them if I just stopped. It's been about 14 months now. The last time I spent any time with one of them was when I flew him interstate to go watch a footy game, paid for his return flight, put him up accommodation wise at my mums place (we both stayed there) and even paid for his ticket to the game. When we landed back home I decided that was when I would see how long it would take for him to contact me. 14 months later I haven't heard from him, we never had an argument or anything, we get along great, into the same sport obviously same music etc, we actually coached our kids together years back but he just won't go out of his way to initiate contact with me, I'm sure he's probably like that with everyone but I'm just sick giving and receiving no effort in return
Same sometimes I’m guilty of it though, I read a message when I’m in the middle of something and think “I’ll just do this and then I’ll reply back” then you realise “shit, I never replied back to them” like a week later or something and you sort of feel like you’ve left it a bit long and it’s kind of awkward now, so you just end up not responding Or sometimes I think because I’m a socially anxious person sometimes I find it hard to judge my value or the level of a friendship and sometimes don’t want to start a conversation out of the blue because I sort of don’t want to embarrass myself overestimating our friendship level and end up thinking to myself “why would they be excited to hear from you? They’ve got loads of stuff going on in their life and probably have loads of other friends now” especially if it’s on social media and you’ve seen them talking about other friends or they’ve met up with people, cause you then start to think “well clearly they have close friends I’m not part of”
There have been instances where I am guilty of not making an effort but @ least for me it is driven by the idea that I question those connections & never really know that friendship is wanted with me, there there must be some other reason they are engaging me, well until they don't. Largely I suspect its transactional or that they just lack the front to tell me to f-off. I am 53 now & I can recall when I had a friend it would of been in my early 20ies. I have not really had anything to do with a woman for more than 20 years & I really have no enthusiasm to want to have anything to do with them again. I miss them, I just don't miss the fuckery & drama. So it is something that continues to not get resolved. I am not the type to suicide, I tell people it is spite & resentment for the human condition that has had me commit to living as long as possible. The separation that I have had a hand in too, but not only, is always there & I wish I could just lose the awareness that it is there because I have no solution to it.
I never got married. One by one as my friends all got married, they dropped off. Especially after having kids. I ran into trouble with several of their controlling wives that wouldn’t let them out of the house and they were too weak to stand up to them. I kept trying to maintain the friendship by getting together once a month. When that didn’t work, I tried quarterly, then every six months and finally once a year before I wrote them off. It pissed me off and also hurt. They were guys I used to hang out with several times a week. Finally I just politely said, “I know you are really busy with life. I would really like to maintain a friendship with you. The ball is in your court, give me a call some time, I’d love to get together again.” Never heard back from any of them.
You are apparently blind to the amount of time parents have if they work full time and their children are young. The wives are not controlling. The wives have every right to want their husbands to spend time with their kids and contribute to housework/yard work. It is time to grow up and realize that most of your friends are probably not getting even six hours of sleep a night if their kids are young. Think again about their priorities and you might understand why the men choose to back their wives if you have the attitude that those wives are "controlling". In addition, the men may have come to the decision that they have grown apart from you, a former friend. They moved on in life. You did not.
@@alexr6114 😅🤣😂 if you think “sacrificing” two or three hours once a year entirely planned well in advance on your own schedule is too much to ask there is something wrong.
@@alexr6114 i see the same in my life, my friends cant go anywhere but their wives come and go as they please, i was friends with a bunch since i was 12, we all grew up got married etc, now the wives are the friends and do stuff together and we don;t , we try but there is always a reason that they cant due to plans that pop up after our plans we make, its driven our friendships apart. I find when women control men its classed as under the thumb, when men do it, its toxic controlling behaviour , women make time for one and other, men don;t
@@alexr6114 I have seen many married couples and seen this similar excuse given. However, that seems to be the case for only men though. The women always have plenty of time to chat with THEIR friends and meet with their friends and have girls night out, etc. If a guy tries that, she will CLAIM she is ok with it but you can see from her facial expressions and her behavior after that she is clearly not. The guys just take the path of least resistance and just comply with whatever the woman wants. Honestly, I cannot blame them, it is just easier that way.
I'm Australian, 56 years old and the Mens Shed is probably the best thing EVER for men, especially as it focuses on middle aged + men, sometimes divorced, widowed etc. Loneliness is the biggest Killer in our modern society. I could talk for hours on this subject, but this video, even though the tip of the Ice Berg is straight to the point, and I am grateful. Love Your Work!
Mens shed started here south Wales UK five years ago during COVID. Fantastic and it's thriving and helping lots of men in my local area. Thank you Australia.
My grandfathers and great grandfathers worked in all male environments and were members of many social organizations, church, their wives organized bridge clubs at the house, and had huge families. The way society naturally was back them made friendships effortless.
Social life will never be the same If you grew up Gen x etc you experienced community , Fridays we would go down town , meet up at pizza places , cruise around in cars , go to parties , swim in the river , and finally we did match making for each other ❤
Technology And the world is less of a friendly place Before social media you had to go meet up in person Eg you would go to the arcade to play video games we did not have Xbox If you wanted to meet a guy you had to show up at the keg party 😅 We didn’t have cameras all over and cell phones Of you were bored you would go to the local convenience store and chat with the guy that worked there The economy was locally based Everything and everyone was tied together If I were to tell friends now - meet me down at the river , being an inner tube, tie a 6 pack to it People would be afraid Someone would take a picture now No more what happens down at the river is our business
Watch older movies like the Breakfast club or dazed and confused and see the them and now I encourage everyone to try to have a meet up in person Make friends at a local pub Join a hiking group etc Volunteer just be a part of something ❤️
If you really want some fun get a group of ppl and play a card game or board game I played 500 rummy with family recently and we had a blast like old Times
After being disappointed and disrespected by many former "friends" I'm okay by myself. I enjoy my own company. My family and my cats are enough for me.
Homo economicus. Working 3 times as hard to afford 3 times less than our grandparents did due to the inflation of an unsustainable fiat currency, egged on by women who thinks everything they see on social media is attainable via you, the man who carries the weight of the world on his shoulders, hasn't the time or energy for friends just for her to claim she's independent, doesn't appreciate his efforts anyway and could probably just go and do onlyfans without any shame whatsoever. Imagine how easy life would be if born female and beautiful
Agreed, and would add that I suspect it's not depression/mental health for men in most cases, but rather despair at facing an insurmountable problem eg. job loss, debt, divorce, child custody battles, genetics affecting relationship prospects... that leads to an untimely end.
Not exactly. 100 plus years ago food wasn't prevelant like is it today. You would work all day to grownor put food on the table. Many went to town once a month or if lucky once a week.
I dont have any friends because I witnessed multiple instances where people close to me flip a switch and turn into complete two-faced backstabbers. Multiple instances where I needed help and they turned me away, realizing people don't practice what they preach and morality is only present when it's convenient
Somehow americans switch to a mentality where every man is every other mans enemy. It wasn't like that for boomers. It all started with gen X as the 80's brainwashed every american male into thinking he was rambo or arnold shwarzenegger. It is even worse now for younger generations with smart phones and social media.
My experience in relationships has been that the woman I’m with expects to be the priority at every moment, and any time with attention on someone/something else is a detriment to the woman’s needs. It’s beyond codependency, it’s a built in expectation with women, and it’s isolated men for generations.
Those are controlling women. You are picking them like that, most of the time it's got something to do with an unhealthy relationship with your mother. There are tons of non-controlling women out there, you just need to figure out what *you* are doing wrong when you go after a woman. I have had friends in those relationships but was never in one myself - I can see those women from a mile away, because they *don't* act like my stable and mentally healthy mom or sister who I grew up around.
@@bbainter7880 well said, but also easier said than done. It took me 6 years (from 42 to 48) to understand and undo the damage caused by my cruel, abusive and narcissistic mother. She’s been a curse on my family and ruined every aspect of our lives. As children we were programmed to accept and normalize selfishness, cruelty and neglect…. And that’s what I looked for in women as an adult thinking it was normal and ok. I’m finally with a beautiful and loving woman and have zero contact with my mother.
Last best friend i had was when i was up to the age of 15. Im 43 now & have lots of acquaintances. I just dont let people get close enough anymore. Trust issue i guess. I only feel comfortable with my wife & kids & brother & close family
Same. So many “friends” that I have emotionally really invested in, sometimes prioritised them over my family turned out to be very very disappointing. So no more wasting time on this non sense. Prioritise your family.
I am a male of 68 years, this has been brought up recently by a very dear classmate at our 50th high school reunion. A subject I most definitely need to research more. Great content as always, will listen in on the entire interview. Thank you.
I am so thankful for my 2 guy friends, we share everything and have deep talks. Their friendship saved me many times. I don't know where I'd be without their support.
I moved to the US after university for work. It was a shock to me as I was used going out a lot with my school friends. Once at the engineering office nobody went after work. It was very lonely, compounded by being in a new country. I learned I needed to be comfortable with my own company for long periods of time or I would go insane. This ability has insulated me from loneliness ever since. Nobody is coming to rescue you, you need to be able to climb the mountain alone if need be.
The "face to face" vs "shoulder to shoulder" topic was interesting. What if it's a subconscious side effect from centuries of warfare. If we're "face to face" we're enemies, but if we're "shoulder to shoulder" we're allies. Just an idea.
I met someone at the gym years ago and we hit it off. We became workout partners and then close friends. We both talk frequently even though we don’t live very close to each other anymore and we both have this relationship where we trust each other implicitly. I can’t tell you how much I value this relationship because I now know how rare it is to have someone you trust that much and know you could depend on if you needed to. I’ve come to realize you don’t need a ton of friends but having a few close ones is worth it and it takes a lot of time and proper boundaries to find them.
Once men get married, they tend to disappear into that bubble. Marriage has become very insular in modern times, where it used to be more of a community. I remember my grandparents always had people from the neighborhood coming by and also extended families tended to live close by. Now we barely know the people next door in many cases and live hours away from extended family. I've also noticed few men have interests or hobbies outside of their job and watching TV when they get home. Outside interests are a great way to meet friends-I've played in bands for years and met some great guys that way.
Absolutely. Being used by your employer, living in splendid isolation with your spouse, don't speak to the neighbours next-door etc. Joining clubs helps if you've got the energy and your wife doesn't play up too much accusing you of seeing a girlfriend
Get active with other people, do stuff, with other people, and be in places with other people. People just want other people to do things with them. Simple.
Agreed, these days the best way to get out and socialize and eventually maybe make friends, is by volunteering somewhere. There are so many organizations to join, or some sports club or whatever, and then the "social quota" is met. This applies for those in the workforce and for those outside of it too.
This has been quite difficult. Finding “places” with other people, which do not require constant injection of money (like a bar, restaurant, etc) are nonexistent in many communities (like mine).
It is not hard to find people. Finding real friends (aka best friends) is hard these days. People are very transactional. Friendship must benefit them. It is hard to find someone who really care for us in emotional level. But those are what we need. I treasure my 2 best friends. Anyone else is like a clothes, they can stay or go if they want since their friendship is not real.
If you ever feel like your family doesn’t need you or your community doesn’t need you well understand that they never needed u to begin with they just used you. But just know that you need you. So fight to save yourself
One can have both. I also like my solitude, I live alone and I spend a lot of time alone. I still have and enjoy friends though. Just less frequently than most do. I do however agree that there is a large and important difference between loneliness and solitude.
Making friends is extremely easy when you're younger, and extremely harder the older you get. The real world is tough and people are selfish because society makes you that way, especially in the US. Friends usually cost money, and you have to trust that person won't screw you over if they get a chance. I'd suggest having 2 close friends and then having a good standing with multiple acquaintances, so your network is strong.
An acquaintance is someone you have a beer with at the bar. A friend is the one that rings you up to invite you to the bar. One is happy to see you, the other makes the effort to hang out with you
It's the "making the effort" part that men seem to struggle with. They're fine if you're already at the bar, but if they have to arrange for you to meet them there or take you there, they can't be bothered
The shoulder to shoulder thing is real...some of the realest conversations I've ever had was while driving or sitting at a bar or walking/hiking/running
I learned I am autistic in my early 40's. Eye contact and small talk are near impossible. It is difficult to make friends without doing something with a goal or shared interest (sports are the best.) Getting a friendship to where it is lasting is near impossible because I don't interact in the "standard" method. I basically end up with short term acquaintances and nothing more, generally only while I serve a purpose. I have a STEM PhD and it is easier for me to teach class to 30-50 people than it is to approach one person I know nothing about. I have almost a second degree black belt and I can basically interact with people at the dojang in terms of learning but socially is very difficult. Unless I know my place I am beyond shy and will just try to disappear.
I was also diagnosed autistic in my 40s and I completely understand. I don’t understand small talk, including idle banter, and I end up being the one person in the room no-one’s talking to. I’m also not a ‘smiler’ even though I’m almost never angry, and I think it makes people feel like I’m cold, but I can’t fake a smile.
@@thefuturist8864 Yea, I have flat affect (no smile / resting bastard face from the amount of bullying I faced for being awkward and not understanding, I looked like I was 26 when I was 14) as well. I get the "you're intimidating" even at work from other people just as qualified as I am. As soon as someone talks to me for a while they generally can't believe what they are hearing because the physical stereotype / picture they formed doesn't match what they are hearing. This is a huge problem in our society and has been for a long time.
Yup. Approaching a stranger goes something like - what do I say to them - Oh god I've got to say something to them - but what - anxiety builds - there's the weather (boring) - there's 'how are you' - the anxiety builds a bit more. I start to want to escape but then feel ashamed of that. I've been diagnosed with Social Anxiety disorder but there is overlap with Autistic Spectrum. The problem with small talk is it's an unstructured conversation with few sign posts and little information to guide the discussion. It also depends a lot on how expressive you are, something which Autistics and Social Anxiety sufferers struggle with. I think it's also somewhat harder for men on average, women are much more expressive in their communication style which is why it's said that men often bond around an activity.
After the age of 45 - either All my friends have died- or have been completely consumed in family dynamics. The friends i do have are work related and although fine, the work experiences is so full of stress and endless work politics that any meaningful relationship outside of the work environment is not sustainable. Most men i know either become INVISIBLE OR FIND AN OUTLET IN NATURE- usually alone or possibly hiking or hunting groups, sporting activities,,even thst being said- it ends up being a dry or competitive head game. I have now evolved past having male friends, fins solace in educating myself in thousands of divergent interests and travel. Sadly- many men have zero levels of freedom. So they become cemented into a garbage apathy and loneliness derangement. Thats the facts of the first 25 years ofnthe 21st century. 💀
This sucks. I’m 56 and have experienced the same thing. Most of my former male friends are just empty dried husks of who they used to be. IDK if they are beaten down by spousal pressure or what. If you can’t find ANY time to carve out a few hours over the next six months on your schedule, to maintain a friendship, I guess we’re really not friends anymore. I have found out how to be 100% self reliant and do everything alone. Not by choice, but by necessity.
I suggest you start taking Testosterone and taking the gym incredibly serious as well. Many men are still very active, dating hotties, making money and enjoying freedom well into their golden years but you need the energy to do so. Find a very liberal TRT clinic and take a healthy dose of Testosterone, small amount of HGH and daily Cialis. You will be a brand new man.
I gave up on making friends years ago because men are flaky. You can have a great evening chatting with a bloke you met down the pub and exchange numbers and then when you text and say hey lets meet up and you get ghosted. I produce music as a hobby and have met blokes who do the same and I've genuinely wanted to meet up at a later date and exchange ideas and have been treated as if I'm weird for even contacting them. Maybe I just give off a vibe, who knows.
I agree with you a 100% I only chat with guys on the basketball court playing pickup ball. Anything outside of that guys would think that you weird or something. I haven’t had friends since I graduated college and I’m totally fine with that.
My husband has no friends , what’s so sad is he is a nice guy . He has colleagues and acquaintances who are also nice guys . This is a tragedy / travesty .
I'm the same, no friends at all. I wake up, go to work, come home. I dread days off and annual leave because work is the only place I connect with people. If your husband is in the UK or even not, then I'd be more than happy to become friends with him
@@garyhalkon8749 im so sorry that’s awful for you . We live in Sydney Australia , so regretfully not in the UK . I will talk to him tonight about it when he gets home from work , but no promises Gary he may not as … I don’t know why , it seems to be a concrete wall he hits , when it comes to interaction . Which makes this all so very difficult . I really hate this for you guys , you are all really great guys . ( not just in intelligence and academics ) but you’re all witty ,funny and smart your thoughts and opinions are so important and relevant . What is happening in the world .
@@garyhalkon8749 hey 👋 im so sorry this is happening to you . I will tell my husband tonight after he gets home from work about you , you’re so cool ! But as you know it’s hard for him even if i reached out for him … there seems to be a real hard barrier that can’t be broken thru . All of you guys are so witty ,clever and so so funny . Sadly we are not in the UK but we live in Australia . Gary do you have a hobby ? I like art so ive joined 2 art groups on line . We zoom as a team as we’re all over the world . I know it’s not the same as in person but it’s a start in the right direction . Don’t be alone buddy you are too precious for that !!!!!
Don't feel bad. That's how I live too. I suspect once we get out of school it's our we spend our lives. It's funny, I was thinking earlier today about how people back in the tribe says probably felt a lot more connected..your surrounded by family, that all love each other, do their part to help out etc. not going to some random job and working for another tribe that doesn't give 2 shits about you besides are you working hard enough and bringing in enough money for his tribe. Humans are definitely not designed to operate as we are today. I don't think in the early days did we have drug issues, alcoholism, bankruptcy, divorces etc.
3 key reasons i hypothesize 1 men are naturally a little bit more of a loner than women to our own detriment 2 men are fear of coming off as weak an needy to other men admitting the longing for plutonic legitimate male comradery is often seen as weakness especially if your no longer a boy / teenager 3 men fear incurring homosexual misunderstanding, or any such awkwardness as overwhelmingly most friendless men are heterosexual or making friends with the wrong crowd (criminal. religious extremist, politically radical, frienemies/ opportunistic weirdos/sick-perverts or jus plain immature men an so on an so fourth.)
yeah a lot of Men don't empathize with each other and have only learned to value humor in friendships rather then integrity and loyalty. This isn't necessarily their fault, its the fault of their family, their fathers and mothers. It goes back man. Not everyone has the capacity to understand the importance, when they live in a world that praises materalistic gain over deep principles and community that tie us together. We live in a fake "society" that is actually a business that runs on human bodies. If it was a society we would be more closer, not as distant as we are now. Technology has evolved to further distract and divide us, to the benefit of the elite few.
Steven Bartlett sat in the front row at The Comedy Store whilst I was the MC, I had no idea who he was but the entire audience did 😂 Glad you covered this topic here, life gets harder for men as we get older, and not all men can cope with the emotional difficulties of loneliness, but those who can and do, are able to help provide insight into uplifting ourselves. Ultimately, it all begins within, for all relationships are transactional, and every man has his gift to give the world.
I make sure to hug my 4-year-old son every day. I also don't have any friends. I want him to know I'll always be not just his father but his friend as well...
@@frankstallone3864i think it helps? Besides i know alot of men who dont get to see there kids grow up or not want to see there kids grow up so id take a friend for life from my dad.
That's lovely but been there done that and let me tell you things get different when your kids become adults, your relationship from adult to child changes and they no longer see you as they did when they were a child. You'll understand when the time comes, it's hard to put into words
I haven’t had a friend since 2014. I used to have 3-4 good male friends as a teen and into my early 20’s but once I moved to another state, I never made a friend, and the old friendships fell off as we never saw each other and lived 20 hours away. It’s probably the thing I miss the most, having other guys who share similar experiences and interests.
Something I've noticed is how many women are increasingly controlling in marriage - like how many guys now feel that they have to ask permission to go do something outside the house besides work - and this is so common, it's normalized and people don't even question it. And it's often subtle, in that women say their husband can do whatever they want, but then they create a ton of problems and arguments if the guy tries to have any sort of life outside the family. Guys end up (often without realizing it's happening over time) going out less and less making it difficult to maintain friendships. Guys that are single tend to spend much more time with friends or doing their own stuff like hobbies or sports.
Yes and in my own experience isolate their partners due to their own psychological insecurities. The cure to that is to do exactly what you want and let the silent or what tactic comes your way slide off your back. Its funny how if you just maintain your own course the eventually respect you for it. If not then just get out. Life’s to short for coercive bullshit.
Many guys turn their sovereignty over to their spouse. “I gotta ask the old lady”. Most of it is that a lot of men can’t handle freedom. It is too heady an elixir.
Hobbies are so important. We put them on hold to raise kids, and in doing so we role-model this behaviour to our kids. I believe that as a father it is my responsibility to show my kids that it is essential that I have hobbies and interests away from the home, with other adults. I play in a band and I ride motorcycles with friends. Facebook groups, when used well, are an excellent resource for connecting men with others interested in the same hobbies. It’s not selfish. It’s self care.
Same boat....I Emigrated to Sydney, got one friend and he was through work! Much older than me too. There's no places people go to hang out or meet up, there's no real traditional pubs or places to go. Everyone just lives in their own bubble. I'm glad I brought my wife otherwise I probably would never have survived here, due to lonliness. Only time I get to socialise is my old mate back in the UK who I xbox with every Sunday morning. It seems modern society has been built to keep people apart and there seems to be no incentive for people to want to make new friends. New
What actually happens is your girlfriend freezes out your real friends & replaces them with the boyfriends of her friends. It’s like pod people. So, when the relationship ends you are on your own because you ignored your real friends. And you didn’t even know it happened.
You also have to spend a lot of time with other adults you don't necessarily have anything in common with when you have kids. By the time you've done all the kids stuff and friends of your wife you don't really have the bandwidth for anything else.
I remember pre digital. He made a great point that men’s friendships and bonding are done over activity. Our activity now is Digital. It’s a solitary pursuit.
I’m 54 now and had around 8 close friends up to 44 then they got married etc. still got 2 close friends from that group I still message and go drinks with. Moral of the story don’t lose contact with friends for a woman because you could end up lonely and it’s selfish
In my life experience as a 63 year old man, wives don’t like husbands to have friends. Wives in general don’t like husbands to have anything outside marriage.
Mmm I think you just met a wrongun and someone who was codependent. The signs are usually there, someone who has very little going on in their own lives, little to no friendships. The high level attention may be flattering in the beginning but it's not a healthy sign for long term. My partner has a great group of childhood friends,they meet up every week for chats and then plan trips and social gatherings for food etc. I need that time to myself, for myself and he gets to relate to his gender folk and allow his masculine side to pop out, when at home, he's a support and relaxed gent. we have good communication and balance and I find most of my friends are like that. They need the "me time" in a relationship to value the time spent together. Men can also be codependent and needy in a relationship if they do not maintain friendships and hobbies.
Wow this is crazy and sad to hear. I am in my 40s, and I started making friends at 4 years old in the sandbox (actually literally) and I still meet some of them on an almost weekly basis and others irregularly. The "last" friends I made were like just a year ago at work and after they left we still meet up for lunches. I always found it really easy to make new friends and also stay in contact with them and I just assumed this was how it is for everybody. And no, I am not super rich and they want to play at my villa, I am not a celebrity or anything, I am just a normal guy. I just really really like people and relationships mean everything to me, having fun together and doing this. I put a lot of effort into it. Hearing about these stories makes me sad as hell, I really hope you, if you are lonely and reading this, can get out there and make friends. There is nothing more valuable.
This is very much the same for myself. This is such a broad topic to cover and everyones situation is different, female or male. However in current society overall the 'statistics' must indicate how challenging it is for men.
You said something really important "I put a lot of effort into it" Have you ever wondered if you stopped putting effort into it if your friends would? Because I realised that unless I initiated contact with my friends nd organised to catch up with them I'd never hear from them, so I decided to give them the opportunity to put some effort in and I stopped initiating contact and its been 14 months and I haven't heard from one of them and rarely hear from the others. Do an experiment and stop initiating contact and see how long it takes for them to contact you and organise to hang out. But you have to be prepared that you may not hear from them for a long time. Friendships are fine while one person is putting in all the effort, but eventually you'll realise they're just taking and not giving anything back
Maintain the ones you have. Be available. Be real. Be kind. The closer all human relationships become the stronger and more sustainable humanity becomes
I've been going with the same three fellows to watch the football team we support for 30 years. We have a laugh, take the piss out of each other, discuss all sorts of subjects. I very rarely see any of them in between the matches and at times, when I was skint, almost dropped out going but boy am I glad I kept it going because they feel like my brothers now. The football used to be the reason, now its the excuse. P.S. I have a fabulous wife who has never ever given me a hard time for going out, be it to football or the pub.
years ago i made a conscious/part unconscious decision to not get close to anyone anymore. i have friends, but it's casual, intermittent, and kept at arms reach. do i miss having a "brother-like" connection to a friend? sure, but my experience is that you cannot fully trust anyone and the risk is not worth it.
@@carlyellison8498 on one hand i agree. on the other, ive experienced such acute pain and stress from relationships (both plutonic and romantic) that, in spite of my best efforts to care for my health, i figure my odds of having a stroke, coronary, or cancer have increased greatly. as humans, we are flawed and giving that beautiful unconditional trust that is the benchmark of a "deeper friendship" is simply to much health risk IMO. i am a 51yo, married father of two...i have much love in my life, but battle scarred wisdom will get me a better chance at some form of inner peace before its done.
Yes it's true you can't trust anyone. And in the end they all.let you down. But then that negative cancels itself out. You go in "knowing how it works" and accept it for what it is...
@@successsystem2468 i can grasp that fine, youre right -but it's still not worth it to me, personally. i think on some level, many of us are perpetually heartbroken because we wanted (and expected) more from humanity -heart and honor among other traits. of course, that's not what we are. but alas, not to worry -it'll all be over soon enough. limping to the finish line....
I believe that people in big cities are lonelier. It's full of people that are trying to chase their own dream and you can easily get lost in the mass. It's full of selfishness and superficial relationships. People don't care about each other. You can live in a apartment building for twenty years without knowing who your upstairs neighbour is. Hell, they can even die in there and you will first notice after three months when the hallway starts to smell. Community is key if you want to produce a healthy human being. And big cities are lacking it.
Then on the other hand there is also the Stepford routine of toxic cliques you can find everywhere, especially in rural idylls, offices and backwaters. The basic problem we have is competition I would agree.
@@Braaaaaaa Not much to say. We live in a culture, especially in the US/Uk, which fosters competition. We are little consumer/producer units competing for status and resources and that doesn't really change when you move out of the city - something people normally are only able to do when they've gathered sufficient resources - but rather you are made more painfully aware of your status within the group. Isolation is to some extent a function of inequality - there are plenty of social cliques living in the big city too, not everybody is isolated. There is a big difference between 'community' and cliquishness and the fundamental basis of our society doesn't change, which is competition. It can be even worse in small insular communities for those excluded from the group . In the big city one may be atomised, but there is a liberty within that. Competition leads to distrust , which leads to isolation. Society places men under more intense pressure to compete with one another to join 'the club' and to meet conventional expectations of success, for women beyond childbirth it tends to be more optional. Women don't compete with one another to the same degree for career success and tend to form stronger social collectives, whether they're in the top club or not. OK, that was actually saying quite a bit , apologies :)
I live in a pretty small town and its lonely for a different reason. Just not a lot of people around, and in the modern age people (even rural people) just kind of chill inside or on their phone. When theyre not working of course. But at least its quiet and peaceful. Feeling lonely in a big city is different, for the reasons you described. Youre surrounded by people- who dont give a fuck about anything but themselves.
@@billyliar1614 Do you believe that competition is a social construct or a natural part of us? There's probably a better model out there than what we have right now. We are on the other probably living in the richest era ever. I believe that competition is a natural part of us and it can make you become a better version of yourself. It encourages growth and I believe that we as humans need that in life. Maybe not this hyperinflated growth that our western society is pushing, but a feeling of betterment. Unfortunately a lot of people get left behind, because they deny to participate in the rat race. And isolation usually kicks in shortly after, which is not a healthy way to live your life. I believe that buying into the rat race is a lot healthier, than the isolation route. You're at least not gonna suffer alone. I believe that a lot of life is suffering, but chosing to suffer with others is a better option if you ask me. Sorry for the long reply 😅
What I am not hearing here is the loss of 3rd spaces for community gatherings and socializing. Unless you invite someone to your place, which you probably have room mates, or a tiny space you have to go out and spend money every time you do anything. Corporations have found a way to exploit, profit, and own every aspect of our lives.
This isn't exactly true. If the weather is good you can meet up at parks. If the weather is bad you can meet up at free social events. (Look up free events in my area.) You can also meet up at rec centers. Aot of them now have game rooms and activities free of charge. Libraries are another place where you can study and read together and talk quietly. They also hold free events.
I thought after making some new friends would help me get out of the loneliness and depression, but still I feel that void inside. Even when surrounded by people that care about me, I still feel isolated.
Same but I think its because we lack purpose. I coached kids track and field once and was the happiest I've ever been while watching the kids realize they can do difficult things, then when the season ended, back to the void.
Its true. Jesus Christ is the creator and I felt the same void before I was in a restored relationship with him. Through faith in His blood he shed on the cross for humanity
In my last relationship my gf always made fun of me for not having any friends. I had girl friends but no guy friends. I never talked about the girls. The day i made my first guy friend in years she became very jealous that we hungout out a lot and never wanted him around.
Thank God for this. I had to retire from work due to ill health 25 years ago. I'm really bad at keeping in touch with people and I've moved house all over the country 23 times. It also doesn't help that I'm Autistic. At 69 I don't have a friend and it's been that way for over 20 years. I thought it was just me.
I moved to a new place a few years ago to be near my dad who was ill. He’s better now but I can’t afford to leave. I was diagnosed autistic in 2020 and I find making friends very difficult; when I was younger it wasn’t so hard because I grew up in a small village and went to the village school where everyone knew everyone, but as I’ve got older it’s got harder and harder. I started a band in my 20s and gained a lot of friends in the local music scene, but when the band fell apart the friends disappeared. My gf is also autistic and isn’t very supportive, so I started seeing a therapist but her prices got too high and I can’t afford it anymore. I work at a university but there’s no opportunity for socialising and so I’ll often go for days without talking to anyone. The loneliness is destroying me. I have developed a painkiller addiction and can only sleep properly when I take powerful sleeping tablets. I don’t see anything changing in the future. When I was in my teens I had friends all around me and all I ever wanted was for them to be around for the whole of my life.
After decades of having what I thought were friends, I came to the understanding that I haven't had a real friend since I was a child. For a man, no other man will come to your rescue, if there is any chance it will negatively affect them. Some guys will say that their friend would back them up in a fight but the reality is that the person they think is their friend is doing it out of self interest because they enjoy fighting
Isn't that what a friend is? Another person whose interests happen to align with our own? Actually asking. I do agree though, if I understand what you're saying, that every interaction is a transaction. What I'm trying to say is that, at heart, we are all selfish.
@@hapster22 I have associates who I share the same common interest with. I find that only sharing a common interest and nothing more, benefits me the most. So yes, I am more selfish now than I have ever been. I am alone more but not more lonely
Talking about the 2 most used words with men taking their own lives.. I have those exact inner thoughts and feelings and I have been struggling with it for some years now. I was watching while going for a walk and I just started crying because the person you're describing is me
I had the same best friend since the age of 13, we hung out every night for way over a decade. Then he met this woman and we've not seen eachother since. I tried arranging everything but it was always shot down or ignored so I gave up. I got a new best friend now, beer. I wish I could say to all the men here something that can help. Just know that you absolutely matter
My workplace has banned friendships between colleagues. Workplaces these days have become totalitarian, my way or the highway (you signed the contract blah blah).
@@lundswedenit is really interesting. From jobs to apartment leases, every industry seems to have identical contracts or terms for their industry. No competition at all. Makes you feel like there is something larger pulling the strings.
My story; was a social butterfly and had a best friend. Was ghosted by best friend after 2 years of daily meeting & all social network all cared about just dating not me. As a man why invest in male friendships? At least women give you something before ghosting. Get a dog guys
The late WWE wrestler Shad Gaspard’s wife said at his induction, paraphrasing “Women are known for who they are. Men are known for what they do.” We have to provide something. Chris Rock spoke on this.
It's because men need an "excuse" to be friends (like working on a common project). We can be friend just for the sake of being friend. We need a frame
Just watched the full episode. Great and interesting conversation, covers a lot of ground. I have 4 brothers and 4 nephews and all of them could relate to a lot of the issues raised. Men need to Keep connecting, open up to eachother more and talk and support eachother.
my whole experience of school was feminist teachers telling all the boys how worthless and unwanted we were to society. I found that I had a community at the airport where I was doing my pilots licence, I found a community at the cadets, if I only went to school I probably wouldn't be here now, the teachers made my life hell at school and dropping out of highschool felt like being cured of a disease and was the happiest day of my life.
Are you sure they weren't recounting statistics like men kill more men in society? Women are more likely to be killed by a man? That men subject female bodies to overkill? Those are established statistics. Was it things like that?
There are many truths about the gynocentric school systems and their abuse towards boys. Feminism has poisoned generations of women into believing the division of family and mistreatment of men and boys benifits women.
Damn thats crazy. Those teachers probably thought that because they had bad experiences with men in their life. And i dont mean it was necessarily some man in her life that hurt her. But a lot of women just dont know how to communicate with the men in their lives. But taking it out on school kids who youre supposed to be helping is just dark.
You find that after a certain age men are stuck in their ways and will make friends with those that will come into their world and share their interests, rather than meet halfway. Then the other party if said interest isn’t something they naturally share can’t be bothered doing that over a certain age just to “make friends”. One example, I was following a former colleague on social media and noticed he was posting about cycling. So I reached out saying there’s a canal towpath in X place, would you like to do that?. The answer was like “oh no I don’t cycle on the flat”. So after that I didn’t bother then, no point chilling if it’s not equal and it’s other parties calling all the shots.
Very true I have a friend that I only see if I make the effort to either go to his place or i organise to do something. Otherwise I don't hear from him or see him.
I have one, and just one... Guy I met at work about 10 years ago. Great person, great friend. We don't see in person alot, 5-6 hours away. But we talk phone every few weeks. Better communication than w/ my wife (and more fun)... LOL
I have one really good friend, a girl I went to school since grade 3 we never took it past friendship. In high school we bonded over late night bad horror movies on tv 12am every Friday. I was her best man at her wedding she was my best woman at mine, 30 years later we still have horror movie nights. She’s very special.
Glad to have you here friend. He sparked the change that I needed as well. Breaking problems down into small manageable parts was some of the best advice I’ve ever received.
We are designed to be social and when you’re alone there is no one to help and share happiness and problems. At its worst, it can feel like a form of death.
I have one left, i thought that i had 3 close friends, but covid put a stop to that. 2 lost their minds an went in the rabbit hole, and started shit talking and disrespecting me because of my pragmatic view of the situation. The one i have left i have known since i was 4 years old, he is like a brother. we meet up 7-8 times a year.
Covid and Trump both combined in a deadly way. At least one third of the country for a time was sucked down Trump's dystopian view of what America should be. Based on some comments online, I suspect that some of the people who voted for Trump in 2016 or 2020 have since decided that their vote(s) was/were a major mistake after January 6th. I live in hope that they have seen the light and will not vote for Trump again in 2024.
Yeah covid was a real strange time and friendships definitely got weird, I think it is a big reason why lots of people have lost touch with their friends or at least aren't as close as they were. It divided people, myself and my family didn't want or get the jab and a lot of my friends have changed towards us since.
The conversation about male suicide was fascinating. I’d love to do a study where they monitored two groups of depressed / suicidal men - one group who go about their daily lives as normal and the other group who are given a dog. Whenever I feel useless or alone I know that my dog needs me and loves me unconditionally and that instantly gives me purpose in life the way nothing else can
Take up golf, I’m not kidding. Doesn’t matter how much you suck at it, you’ll will find some of the best friends in your life and the networking will take you to places you could never imagine.
@@caseycoleman7227 this is an excellent point. It doesn’t even have to be golf. Find anything you enjoy doing that is somewhat interactive, and you will find others who enjoy the same thing. Shared appreciation is a great basis for a new friendship. Pickleball, quilting, model airplanes, cooking, reading, you name it. Just as long as it’s something you have a passion for.
My wife and I just talked about this the other day. She says I have no friends. Which she is right about. I told her men socialize differently then women do. I have lots of men that I am friendly with but no we don't hang out together. and I am OK with that.
Very true, but you misunderstand her. She's telling you, even though she doesn't realize it, that having a hangout buddy or 2 will make you more attractive to her. It's social proof that you were a catch. She's doubting your worth subconsciously. I've been there.
Feminism is what caused that and this guest is nothing but a male feminist who was sent by feminists to do damage control. Because the problems of what they have done started to backfire
You don't, it happens all by itself when you're around someone you talk to and otherwise get along with. That doesn't mean they're lifelong, most friendships are temporary.
@@devilsoffspring5519 You are right that most friendships are temporary, they could be even 15 years but most people move and change places. Also, that may be a bit more challenging with people who live in big cities because at some point people get married. and after some time they tend to move a bit outside the city, but can you still keep the connection by putting some effort.
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📺 Watch the full episode here -
ruclips.net/video/_J1lFZEBq2Y/видео.html
I got 3, all from high school time, I'm in my 50's. Talk to them every 5-10 years without fail.
5 to 10 years 😆
Sounds like the new universal truth mate
It's all about consistency.
I know exactly what you're talking about. Same story here.
The best friends are the ones with no expectation of your time but when you meet just carry on from where you left off, even if it’s decades apart.
My grandfathers and great grandfathers worked in all male environments and were members of many social organizations, church, their wives organized bridge clubs at the house, and had huge families. The way society naturally was back them made friendships effortless. And they used to work six days a week back then, but they still had the time for socializing.
No Internet, TV or smartphone. Socializing was only way of entertainment.
Think of the ramification of that: If men mostly hang out with guys, and it tends to create tension with girls, what happens when we go from all male to 50/50 workplaceS? It means 100% to 50% of potential friendships reduction. Not many hang out with opposite gender and if they have a partner it will not be so popular. So that is a huge one. Same goes for women when they were home wives.
Radio, cinema, magazines, newspapers, hobbies. All worthwhile in the past.
Hard to make lasting relationships when the only thing in common is the 0's and 1's bouncing across the internet.
I think more present fathers have also effected the dynamic. Like you said the men were working a lot while the women tended to the children. I work in a clinical environment and I cannot tell you how many old men have stories about working then going drinking at the local bar and just getting into shenanigans. Now-a-days I feel people rush home before the kids go to bed just to get a bit of time with them. Obviously it’s amazing that men are trying to be more present but of course everything has trade offs.
I have a like 6 fantastic mates and the only reason i have these guys, is because these guys appreciate the talks, brutal honesty and friendship we share for eachother. Talk to your brothers guys, real deep talk. We need it.
I think that it's hard to find people on the same page. I like deep talk, but is my deep talk and yours the same as yours? A great video is the TED talk of Barbra Sher "Isolation is the dream Killer". I want to start a group but I'm not sure how to even get people to join.
Do an experiment and don't make any contact with them and see how long it takes for them to contact you.
The older I get, my old friends seem to have less and less in common with me. You get to the point where you wonder who the hell these people are anymore and why you even still hang out with them.
@@redwatch1100 this is an excellent point. I think most people over 30 can relate. We change through our life experiences, and others often don’t change in the same way (how could they?). This makes it even more relevant for people to find way and skills to make new friends as they change and their lives and goals no longer align with earlier friends. Very well put.
Well said, all very good points, I have stopped hanging out with people I have nothing in common with, as we age it's harder to make new friends and one of the reasons is everyone has such busy lives. Just keep going guys, if you wake up in the morning stick your elbows out and don't feel mahogany it's not going to be such a bad day,.
that hit hard. The last time i met one of my oldest / closest friends i literally thought by myself who tf is this guy?
Not only that but some of your so-called mates will resent you if your life goes better in their eyes than their own.
@@theoutsider6191True. But not just your mates, Family too. The spirit of Cain is heavy in society more than ever 😢🙏🏾
Most of what we consider “friends” are really just “acquaintances” Real friendship requires openness and truly being yourself with your friends which sadly is very difficult to do nowadays because most “friends” are in competition with each other instead of getting each other’s backs.
This is so true. I've had my "friends" backs over and over again, and never had it reciprocated - so now I've given up
@@baustin11111 I did an experiment with people I thought would be in my life forever, well at the time it seemed so because we were in the service together. Sure enough after we all left and went our separate ways I pondered and every year I'd remember their birthdays and send them an email or text with a birthday wish and checking in on how life was. Sure enough, I did not receive any birthday wish or yearly message from any of them, only a response when I reached out on their birthdays. Then I stopped sending emails etc. and still to this day I wonder, do they even remember me? I don't beat myself up over it because to be honest my wife is my best friend and though its not bro time we enjoy most of our time with similar activities, we also have three young sons who I look forward to growing older with just so we can have grownup bro times of our own. Either way, never give up on yourself. There is always someone somewhere who will be by you one day, just let life happen naturally and by accident.
I’ve had more than a handful of people I thought were friends redefine our relationship.
People these days are so fucking transactional, you’re only kept around as long as you’re useful.
If you lose the utility your “friendship” is valued at near zero.
(edit) someone is threatening me and I could use some votes on my community page on what to do if you have time. 😪
Agreed I said this the other day , I always showed up did what I could to help friends . When I went through a hard time watched everyone of my friends leave at some point except 2 ( true mates ) people only want you around on their terms and what you offer for them . World sucks .
Individualism at its peak
One of the books on my reading list is called: "Games that people play" by Eric Berne. It's about Transactional Analysis.
Yeah, it's often transactions. Sadly a lot of people like to just take and rarely give back.
Yea 100% spot on, agreed
Yes, lately i've dropped out of my music band because they have said I'm sounding like sh!t and they forbid me to play, week before our first gig (even thou only two of fourteen set tracks were half baked). One of these guys I have thought of as a pretty close friend and he did nothing to sort things out (even taking in consideration that he was the leader), also they used me by taking some of my money to pay for few things (luckly not much) because all of them are living almost on debt.
As a 50+ Aussie male who grew up in the country, I can easily name 10+ guys I grew up with died by suicide in their teens & 20’s. Well before mental health was acknowledged. I truly hope my son’s generation follows a different path
Aussie here too. I've had a similar amount. It's a tragedy truly.
Yep, definitely agree .. also Aussie and right on point. The “macho men do not cry drink your your beer and man up” culture did not help … fortunately times are changing … mental health really only is being talked about post Covid
Lived in Perth for 12 years, the way it is here is one big race to the top, by snitching and back stabbing rather than hard work. It means that people you work with are colleagues and not work-mates, it's very sad.
@@JamesG89 it was the same here in Melbourne. bunch of back stabbers
I worked Fifo. Never been more miserable in my life. The isolation and the enforced masculinity
Wow that really hit home. We tragically lost our 17yo son to suicide. In 6 days it will be 6 years ago. It changed those of us who were lucky/unlucky to remain lives forever. So much of what was discussed here hit home not only for my son but myself. His death resulted in the end of our marriage (there was no recovery). And now I am living a much lonelier life in my 50’s as a single male.
It is hard to make new friends and your comments about loneliness also hit home. I’ve never thought about the shoulder to shoulder concept. That makes so much sense.
Thank you for covering these vital topics 🙏
Strength to you Jamie, reading your message floored me with emotion. We lost our youngest daughter 2 years ago next month to suicide.
Keep going and try not blame yourself , it's hard but it helps.
Your courage to write this message helped me to respond.
Big handshake from the heart.
@@blairbrown7848 I embrace your handshake from the heart Blair. It’s a sorrow that only those who’ve been through it truly understand and that number is tragically way to high. Thank you for the courage to comment also. My thoughts & support are with you & your family ♥️
My sympathies Jamie. I lost my 18 year old son three years ago, in a car accident. Even still I know I can’t fully comprehend your loss. My marriage was already on the ropes and has since ended. The biggest challenge is that most of my current friends are still married, so limited time for outside activities. Having said that, I am doing my best to be active and still getting friend time in. Men need to be doing something in my experience, not a lot of heart to heart over coffee.
The prerequisite to FRIENDSHIP is to be FRIENDLY.
I think a lot of people throughout the course of their lives unfortunately forget this basic fact.
Not really, I'm 47 and I have found all my life that antisocial people tend to be held in high regard and always have tons of followers, even ones who've done prison time for rape, assault, stalking etc.
Conscientious people do *not* have that automatic 'clout' and worship everywhere they go.
Maybe Canadians are just degenerates, who knows.
I'll be honest, I never understood the need for friendship or even socialising. I do it because it is expected, but I prefer to be on my own, and I seem to have no interest in other people, which makes all my relationships extremely shallow. I prefer the company of my dogs. Relationships with women apart from their suffocating neediness often suck precicely because they crave to be social. I suffer through all that for mainly the sex. I don't remember a time I felt lonely, but I did see it in my dog, which is why I rescued another dog to keep her company.
@@Brakka86 Nothing wrong with natural introversion. Only problem is that in our culture, young women find it unacceptable so young guys have to tolerate image-based pecking-order crap just to attract a dumb female :)
I guess … I dunno , kinda seems like a 2 dimensional outlook though. I think it’s more complicated than that. People are complicated.
I’m generally like that now. Mainly due to not enough time and my hobbies and family taking the remaining free time. My wife understands me enough that we live comfortably and I’m so grateful to have her but she suckers me into her social endeavors and I always feel like a pay a big price out of my mental energy. It’s hard for others to fully understand this.
I was a kid in the 60’s and 70’s, retired now. From my perspective society seems much more competitive and status oriented than ever before. People are more judgmental, hot tempered and generally egotistical. The term “road rage” didn’t exist when was young. It’s fairly common now. I see all kinds of weird forms aggression on the road when driving. Generally, people seemed more friendly, humble, thoughtful and kind when I was young. It’s a more hostile world today. On the why end of things. As I said previously, I think it is the pursuit of status, wealth and material things. That combined with an immersion into on-line worlds of fantasy. Everyone one is involved with that and avoiding actual one-on-one interaction with people.
I just retired too. A few things were different back then. People were not so rude and selfish. Public idiocy was not tolerated well. If you “got in someone’s face” or treated another with the level of disrespect I see in society today, you would be eating knuckles and picking your teeth up off the ground for dessert. There are zero consequences for people’s behavior now.
It’s way more likely that you just don’t like video games.
@@FloofusTheCat Nah, he's right. I say this as a 23 yr old.
Social Media has made everyone way more competitive and judgmental. For all human history, you were only in competition with the people in your community. If you had a 6 pack (just an example) you were considered special. Now that we have social media, the pool of competition went from the people in your community to literally everyone in the world.
Now, women have to compete with edited photos of people who are already supermodels. They will see the supermodel's man take her out for a $50k dinner and then fly her to Dubai, then they get upset their man can't/isn't doing that for them. Men have to compete with supermodels too, and they have to compete with a billionaire's son who can fly their desired woman in from anywhere and take her anywhere to eat and can buy her anything she wants.
The worst part is that average men and women will see these popular Instagram influencers and truly believe they DESERVE that level too (they don't), and they don't even account for the fact that these Instagram profiles are curated make the owner's life look 10x better than it actually is. Now we have men who will only settle for the supermodel (despite being a 6/10 on their best day), women will only settle for the billionaire.
Obviously this doesn't apply to everyone but there are lot of NPC's in the world.
Totally agree. I grew up in 80s 90s
Spot on
What sad is his how often if you leave you job. You realize that those friends never talk to you again
So true. So true.
Which is why I prefer to be self employed
If that's the case then they never were friends to begin with.
I made friends with an old homeless fella, who lived under the overpass near me, in Yokohama. About 12 years ago, when I first moved here and I passed him on the way to the station, he'd shout "Ringo Starr!" which made me chuckle. When family and friends were over from England, I'd made a point of stopping to say hello to him and saying "who do I look like?", and when he said "Ringo Starr, Beatles!" they'd be in stitches as well. So, from buying him a bottle of water on hot days, popping in the convenience store for him if he was hungry, buying him a pocket transistor radio and gloves for Christmas and stuff like that, I got to know him a bit better. I haven't seen him for a few months now, his mobility was becoming chronically bad, and I think he's been taken off the streets by the authorities. I always look around the underpass on the way to the station, but I sadly don't really expect he'll come back. Friendship developing has no chance unless the two potential friends are prepared to find a bit of time for each other though.
GBU. Good on you.
He dead bro
@avairal5936 I was gonna say, even in Los Angeles it was still hypothermia weather at night even as of 2 months ago. When it rains, people die of hypothermia, but people also die of it from the dew if they don't have a tent AND a sleeping bag. Anything below 50 degrees is hypothermia, but the 50s is also hypothermia weather, except it takes 3-6 hours to die of hypothermia versus 3 hour or less in the 40s
The kindness you showed. Wish more people would do the same. Myself included.
Incremental femini*t belief system has branched off into patriarchal control of a variety of things that men do or are going to do. Treating a woman like a queen at the expense of the man's mental health is an involuntarily narcissistic short or longterm plan it seems.
I'm not just a Uniform
Social Media is at the core of most of societies issues today.
The internet destroyed the earth and social media was the final coup de grâce.
@redwatch1100 nail on the head my friend. Sad times
@@redwatch1100 What you say has a large amount to deal with it currently, but when I look at men I know the generation before me, they're the same, My father, uncles, grandfather, etc. They have friends from college and childhood, or the military, but no new friends after they were in their 20s. At least not on a meaningful level. I think this has been a problem for quite a while now. Social media has definitely made it more difficult though, its one of the reasons I lost my best friend of 20+ years.
@@sij809 💯
No, don’t blame “social media”.
It’s economics, neoliberalism, feminism, big government, etc.
Going back to nature and nature’s ways would help.
The latter part of the conversation with regards to men taking their own lives is so important. I work at a crematorium in UK as a gardener (but also help work the chapel and the machines also) and you would be surprised at how many young men we receive. I see the families that pass through the chapel and the impact it has on them. As someone who has suffered with depression at times in my life, the one common theme is always the feeling of being useless or not of need. We as a planet have to halt this phenomenon. We’ve become more connected than ever through our phones and technology, yet we are now more separated as a result. I hope we can find a solution before more lives are cut short.
Yep … the value of human life has cheapened driven by corporate profits and political self interest… erosion of national values, globalization of manufacturing, social media etc 😢 I am in my 40s and feel very lucky to have had my teenage years in the 90s with real friends and those holiday adventures away from screens
Friendships die because a lot of men don't make any effort to actually maintain friendships. They put everything and anything before their friendships. I've had many friends over the years that I lost contact with because they wouldn't put any effort towards the friendship. Once I stopped calling or texting them, I never heard from them again.
Going through that exact thing at the moment, I noticed that unless I initiated contact I'd never hear from them, so I decided to see how long it would take before I heard from them if I just stopped.
It's been about 14 months now.
The last time I spent any time with one of them was when I flew him interstate to go watch a footy game, paid for his return flight, put him up accommodation wise at my mums place (we both stayed there) and even paid for his ticket to the game.
When we landed back home I decided that was when I would see how long it would take for him to contact me.
14 months later I haven't heard from him, we never had an argument or anything, we get along great, into the same sport obviously same music etc, we actually coached our kids together years back but he just won't go out of his way to initiate contact with me, I'm sure he's probably like that with everyone but I'm just sick giving and receiving no effort in return
Same sometimes I’m guilty of it though, I read a message when I’m in the middle of something and think “I’ll just do this and then I’ll reply back” then you realise “shit, I never replied back to them” like a week later or something and you sort of feel like you’ve left it a bit long and it’s kind of awkward now, so you just end up not responding
Or sometimes I think because I’m a socially anxious person sometimes I find it hard to judge my value or the level of a friendship and sometimes don’t want to start a conversation out of the blue because I sort of don’t want to embarrass myself overestimating our friendship level and end up thinking to myself “why would they be excited to hear from you? They’ve got loads of stuff going on in their life and probably have loads of other friends now” especially if it’s on social media and you’ve seen them talking about other friends or they’ve met up with people, cause you then start to think “well clearly they have close friends I’m not part of”
There have been instances where I am guilty of not making an effort but @ least for me it is driven by the idea that I question those connections & never really know that friendship is wanted with me, there there must be some other reason they are engaging me, well until they don't. Largely I suspect its transactional or that they just lack the front to tell me to f-off.
I am 53 now & I can recall when I had a friend it would of been in my early 20ies. I have not really had anything to do with a woman for more than 20 years & I really have no enthusiasm to want to have anything to do with them again. I miss them, I just don't miss the fuckery & drama. So it is something that continues to not get resolved.
I am not the type to suicide, I tell people it is spite & resentment for the human condition that has had me commit to living as long as possible.
The separation that I have had a hand in too, but not only, is always there & I wish I could just lose the awareness that it is there because I have no solution to it.
This is the truth.. we as men complain about our friendships but don’t help maintain them
I stopped calling them, never heard of them since
I never got married. One by one as my friends all got married, they dropped off. Especially after having kids. I ran into trouble with several of their controlling wives that wouldn’t let them out of the house and they were too weak to stand up to them.
I kept trying to maintain the friendship by getting together once a month. When that didn’t work, I tried quarterly, then every six months and finally once a year before I wrote them off. It pissed me off and also hurt.
They were guys I used to hang out with several times a week. Finally I just politely said, “I know you are really busy with life. I would really like to maintain a friendship with you. The ball is in your court, give me a call some time, I’d love to get together again.” Never heard back from any of them.
You are apparently blind to the amount of time parents have if they work full time and their children are young. The wives are not controlling. The wives have every right to want their husbands to spend time with their kids and contribute to housework/yard work. It is time to grow up and realize that most of your friends are probably not getting even six hours of sleep a night if their kids are young. Think again about their priorities and you might understand why the men choose to back their wives if you have the attitude that those wives are "controlling". In addition, the men may have come to the decision that they have grown apart from you, a former friend. They moved on in life. You did not.
@@alexr6114 😅🤣😂 if you think “sacrificing” two or three hours once a year entirely planned well in advance on your own schedule is too much to ask there is something wrong.
@@alexr6114 i see the same in my life, my friends cant go anywhere but their wives come and go as they please, i was friends with a bunch since i was 12, we all grew up got married etc, now the wives are the friends and do stuff together and we don;t , we try but there is always a reason that they cant due to plans that pop up after our plans we make, its driven our friendships apart.
I find when women control men its classed as under the thumb, when men do it, its toxic controlling behaviour , women make time for one and other, men don;t
Nah @@alexr6114
@@alexr6114 I have seen many married couples and seen this similar excuse given.
However, that seems to be the case for only men though. The women always have plenty of time to chat with THEIR friends and meet with their friends and have girls night out, etc.
If a guy tries that, she will CLAIM she is ok with it but you can see from her facial expressions and her behavior after that she is clearly not.
The guys just take the path of least resistance and just comply with whatever the woman wants. Honestly, I cannot blame them, it is just easier that way.
There is a steep learning curve to knowing real friends from acquaintances, but men can definitely have real friends.
Speak for yourself. I got a homie and going by what I see in these comments I can tell why they don't have any friends.
When did he say they couldn’t? Low level comprehension or something?
All my friends were mostly met from school, I don't talk to any of them anymore. Now its just me, myself, and water.
I'm Australian, 56 years old and the Mens Shed is probably the best thing EVER for men, especially as it focuses on middle aged + men, sometimes divorced, widowed etc. Loneliness is the biggest Killer in our modern society. I could talk for hours on this subject, but this video, even though the tip of the Ice Berg is straight to the point, and I am grateful. Love Your Work!
I'm thinking some "women's rights" activists will start protesting soon, gain entry, and ruin it for men.
Mens shed started here south Wales UK five years ago during COVID. Fantastic and it's thriving and helping lots of men in my local area. Thank you Australia.
My grandfathers and great grandfathers worked in all male environments and were members of many social organizations, church, their wives organized bridge clubs at the house, and had huge families. The way society naturally was back them made friendships effortless.
bot account
@@frankstallone3864 What the hell are you talking about?
Social life will never be the same
If you grew up Gen x etc you experienced community ,
Fridays we would go down town , meet up at pizza places , cruise around in cars , go to parties , swim in the river , and finally we did match making for each other ❤
Very relatable
What changed?
Technology
And the world is less of a friendly place
Before social media you had to go meet up in person
Eg you would go to the arcade to play video games we did not have Xbox
If you wanted to meet a guy you had to show up at the keg party 😅
We didn’t have cameras all over and cell phones
Of you were bored you would go to the local convenience store and chat with the guy that worked there
The economy was locally based
Everything and everyone was tied together
If I were to tell friends now - meet me down at the river , being an inner tube, tie a 6 pack to it
People would be afraid
Someone would take a picture now
No more what happens down at the river is our business
Watch older movies like the Breakfast club or dazed and confused and see the them and now
I encourage everyone to try to have a meet up in person
Make friends at a local pub
Join a hiking group etc
Volunteer just be a part of something ❤️
If you really want some fun get a group of ppl and play a card game or board game
I played 500 rummy with family recently and we had a blast like old
Times
After being disappointed and disrespected by many former "friends" I'm okay by myself. I enjoy my own company. My family and my cats are enough for me.
@@AnnaAtl So true
Definitely understand especially during the Convid years
The cats are the main thing bro. Cats are beings of perfection - that's why the hatred of them
All my “friends” told me i deserve to lose my job over the mandates. One even told me i should be thrown into a prison camp
Sorry you went through that. I’ll never forgive those that caused all the madness. Keep those who listened to you closer as I have done.
Because we live in a society where you’re in a hamster wheel for 90 hours a week just to be able to afford a house.
Homo economicus. Working 3 times as hard to afford 3 times less than our grandparents did due to the inflation of an unsustainable fiat currency, egged on by women who thinks everything they see on social media is attainable via you, the man who carries the weight of the world on his shoulders, hasn't the time or energy for friends just for her to claim she's independent, doesn't appreciate his efforts anyway and could probably just go and do onlyfans without any shame whatsoever.
Imagine how easy life would be if born female and beautiful
yup
Agreed, and would add that I suspect it's not depression/mental health for men in most cases, but rather despair at facing an insurmountable problem eg. job loss, debt, divorce, child custody battles, genetics affecting relationship prospects... that leads to an untimely end.
It's sad but true, and then we only get 5-10 years to live if we are lucky and we are old with broken bodies wishing we could do it all sooner.
Not exactly. 100 plus years ago food wasn't prevelant like is it today. You would work all day to grownor put food on the table. Many went to town once a month or if lucky once a week.
I dont have any friends because I witnessed multiple instances where people close to me flip a switch and turn into complete two-faced backstabbers. Multiple instances where I needed help and they turned me away, realizing people don't practice what they preach and morality is only present when it's convenient
What was the common denom8nator in all those friendships that went bad......? You.
Somehow americans switch to a mentality where every man is every other mans enemy. It wasn't like that for boomers. It all started with gen X as the 80's brainwashed every american male into thinking he was rambo or arnold shwarzenegger. It is even worse now for younger generations with smart phones and social media.
@davidtomkins4242 sure blame the victim buddy!
@@idontcare9797 truth hurts!
@@davidtomkins4242 you have a normie take on situations
My experience in relationships has been that the woman I’m with expects to be the priority at every moment, and any time with attention on someone/something else is a detriment to the woman’s needs. It’s beyond codependency, it’s a built in expectation with women, and it’s isolated men for generations.
Yep. Men get a gf or wife and you never see them again
Same, it really bothers me that my Friends are now missing, they have girlfriends and they disappear
Those are controlling women. You are picking them like that, most of the time it's got something to do with an unhealthy relationship with your mother.
There are tons of non-controlling women out there, you just need to figure out what *you* are doing wrong when you go after a woman.
I have had friends in those relationships but was never in one myself - I can see those women from a mile away, because they *don't* act like my stable and mentally healthy mom or sister who I grew up around.
@@bbainter7880 well said, but also easier said than done. It took me 6 years (from 42 to 48) to understand and undo the damage caused by my cruel, abusive and narcissistic mother. She’s been a curse on my family and ruined every aspect of our lives. As children we were programmed to accept and normalize selfishness, cruelty and neglect…. And that’s what I looked for in women as an adult thinking it was normal and ok. I’m finally with a beautiful and loving woman and have zero contact with my mother.
That’s on you for not putting the boundary.
Last best friend i had was when i was up to the age of 15. Im 43 now & have lots of acquaintances. I just dont let people get close enough anymore. Trust issue i guess. I only feel comfortable with my wife & kids & brother & close family
I think that's okay.
Sometimes there s no more "space" for more, especially when we have work and family to attend too.
Same. So many “friends” that I have emotionally really invested in, sometimes prioritised them over my family turned out to be very very disappointing.
So no more wasting time on this non sense. Prioritise your family.
@@ParkerPennies ❤️
There’s nothing wrong with that, man. I choose time with my family over friends almost every time. It was our choice to start a family.
Sometimes after work I drive to a store and sit in the parking lot because im not ready for the day to be done and go home and be alone.
I do the same thing sometimes
I am a male of 68 years, this has been brought up recently by a very dear classmate at our 50th high school reunion. A subject I most definitely need to research more. Great content as always, will listen in on the entire interview. Thank you.
Thank you sir
I am so thankful for my 2 guy friends, we share everything and have deep talks. Their friendship saved me many times. I don't know where I'd be without their support.
I moved to the US after university for work. It was a shock to me as I was used going out a lot with my school friends. Once at the engineering office nobody went after work. It was very lonely, compounded by being in a new country. I learned I needed to be comfortable with my own company for long periods of time or I would go insane. This ability has insulated me from loneliness ever since. Nobody is coming to rescue you, you need to be able to climb the mountain alone if need be.
The "face to face" vs "shoulder to shoulder" topic was interesting. What if it's a subconscious side effect from centuries of warfare. If we're "face to face" we're enemies, but if we're "shoulder to shoulder" we're allies. Just an idea.
I believe that's the idea. That's why he mentioned the increase in cortisol when men speak face to face. Part of the fight or flight response.
In typical conversation, two men will not face each other directly, but more at 45 degree angle.
I met someone at the gym years ago and we hit it off. We became workout partners and then close friends. We both talk frequently even though we don’t live very close to each other anymore and we both have this relationship where we trust each other implicitly. I can’t tell you how much I value this relationship because I now know how rare it is to have someone you trust that much and know you could depend on if you needed to.
I’ve come to realize you don’t need a ton of friends but having a few close ones is worth it and it takes a lot of time and proper boundaries to find them.
Once men get married, they tend to disappear into that bubble. Marriage has become very insular in modern times, where it used to be more of a community. I remember my grandparents always had people from the neighborhood coming by and also extended families tended to live close by. Now we barely know the people next door in many cases and live hours away from extended family. I've also noticed few men have interests or hobbies outside of their job and watching TV when they get home. Outside interests are a great way to meet friends-I've played in bands for years and met some great guys that way.
Absolutely. Being used by your employer, living in splendid isolation with your spouse, don't speak to the neighbours next-door etc. Joining clubs helps if you've got the energy and your wife doesn't play up too much accusing you of seeing a girlfriend
Get active with other people, do stuff, with other people, and be in places with other people. People just want other people to do things with them. Simple.
Agreed, these days the best way to get out and socialize and eventually maybe make friends, is by volunteering somewhere. There are so many organizations to join, or some sports club or whatever, and then the "social quota" is met. This applies for those in the workforce and for those outside of it too.
This has been quite difficult. Finding “places” with other people, which do not require constant injection of money (like a bar, restaurant, etc) are nonexistent in many communities (like mine).
@delaslight existence requires continuation. It's not about the people, its about you. If you stop feeding the body, the body will have to stop.
It is not hard to find people. Finding real friends (aka best friends) is hard these days. People are very transactional. Friendship must benefit them. It is hard to find someone who really care for us in emotional level. But those are what we need.
I treasure my 2 best friends. Anyone else is like a clothes, they can stay or go if they want since their friendship is not real.
And if that fails, fuck it and go out and do things you love anyway 🙂 cause that will still put a smile on your dial.
If you ever feel like your family doesn’t need you or your community doesn’t need you well understand that they never needed u to begin with they just used you. But just know that you need you. So fight to save yourself
Less friends, less bull shit. There’s a difference between loneliness and solitude. I am never lonely because I enjoy my solitude.
One can have both. I also like my solitude, I live alone and I spend a lot of time alone. I still have and enjoy friends though. Just less frequently than most do. I do however agree that there is a large and important difference between loneliness and solitude.
Me too.. never had a TRUE friend.. maybe my mother.. but even she liked my brother more.
Making friends is extremely easy when you're younger, and extremely harder the older you get. The real world is tough and people are selfish because society makes you that way, especially in the US. Friends usually cost money, and you have to trust that person won't screw you over if they get a chance. I'd suggest having 2 close friends and then having a good standing with multiple acquaintances, so your network is strong.
An acquaintance is someone you have a beer with at the bar. A friend is the one that rings you up to invite you to the bar. One is happy to see you, the other makes the effort to hang out with you
It's the "making the effort" part that men seem to struggle with.
They're fine if you're already at the bar, but if they have to arrange for you to meet them there or take you there, they can't be bothered
The shoulder to shoulder thing is real...some of the realest conversations I've ever had was while driving or sitting at a bar or walking/hiking/running
I learned I am autistic in my early 40's. Eye contact and small talk are near impossible. It is difficult to make friends without doing something with a goal or shared interest (sports are the best.) Getting a friendship to where it is lasting is near impossible because I don't interact in the "standard" method. I basically end up with short term acquaintances and nothing more, generally only while I serve a purpose. I have a STEM PhD and it is easier for me to teach class to 30-50 people than it is to approach one person I know nothing about. I have almost a second degree black belt and I can basically interact with people at the dojang in terms of learning but socially is very difficult. Unless I know my place I am beyond shy and will just try to disappear.
“Unless I know my place I will try to disappear”. I feel this deeply. This has been me in every single interaction of my entire life.
I was also diagnosed autistic in my 40s and I completely understand. I don’t understand small talk, including idle banter, and I end up being the one person in the room no-one’s talking to. I’m also not a ‘smiler’ even though I’m almost never angry, and I think it makes people feel like I’m cold, but I can’t fake a smile.
@@thefuturist8864 Yea, I have flat affect (no smile / resting bastard face from the amount of bullying I faced for being awkward and not understanding, I looked like I was 26 when I was 14) as well. I get the "you're intimidating" even at work from other people just as qualified as I am. As soon as someone talks to me for a while they generally can't believe what they are hearing because the physical stereotype / picture they formed doesn't match what they are hearing. This is a huge problem in our society and has been for a long time.
Yup. Approaching a stranger goes something like - what do I say to them - Oh god I've got to say something to them - but what - anxiety builds - there's the weather (boring) - there's 'how are you' - the anxiety builds a bit more. I start to want to escape but then feel ashamed of that. I've been diagnosed with Social Anxiety disorder but there is overlap with Autistic Spectrum. The problem with small talk is it's an unstructured conversation with few sign posts and little information to guide the discussion. It also depends a lot on how expressive you are, something which Autistics and Social Anxiety sufferers struggle with. I think it's also somewhat harder for men on average, women are much more expressive in their communication style which is why it's said that men often bond around an activity.
After the age of 45 - either All my friends have died- or have been completely consumed in family dynamics. The friends i do have are work related and although fine, the work experiences is so full of stress and endless work politics that any meaningful relationship outside of the work environment is not sustainable. Most men i know either become INVISIBLE OR FIND AN OUTLET IN NATURE- usually alone or possibly hiking or hunting groups, sporting activities,,even thst being said- it ends up being a dry or competitive head game. I have now evolved past having male friends, fins solace in educating myself in thousands of divergent interests and travel. Sadly- many men have zero levels of freedom. So they become cemented into a garbage apathy and loneliness derangement. Thats the facts of the first 25 years ofnthe 21st century. 💀
Very poetic
What do you mean many men have zero levels of freedom???
This sucks. I’m 56 and have experienced the same thing. Most of my former male friends are just empty dried husks of who they used to be. IDK if they are beaten down by spousal pressure or what.
If you can’t find ANY time to carve out a few hours over the next six months on your schedule, to maintain a friendship, I guess we’re really not friends anymore. I have found out how to be 100% self reliant and do everything alone. Not by choice, but by necessity.
@@sc7453 Try to be more persistent w people
I suggest you start taking Testosterone and taking the gym incredibly serious as well. Many men are still very active, dating hotties, making money and enjoying freedom well into their golden years but you need the energy to do so. Find a very liberal TRT clinic and take a healthy dose of Testosterone, small amount of HGH and daily Cialis. You will be a brand new man.
I gave up on making friends years ago because men are flaky. You can have a great evening chatting with a bloke you met down the pub and exchange numbers and then when you text and say hey lets meet up and you get ghosted. I produce music as a hobby and have met blokes who do the same and I've genuinely wanted to meet up at a later date and exchange ideas and have been treated as if I'm weird for even contacting them. Maybe I just give off a vibe, who knows.
I agree with you a 100%
I only chat with guys on the basketball court playing pickup ball. Anything outside of that guys would think that you weird or something. I haven’t had friends since I graduated college and I’m totally fine with that.
Sounds like you're trying to fuck em
Men are shit friends indeed.
Is it possible they think you're gay? Just a thought. Do you make sure to mention a gf or wife?
My husband has no friends , what’s so sad is he is a nice guy . He has colleagues and acquaintances who are also nice guys . This is a tragedy / travesty .
I'm the same, no friends at all. I wake up, go to work, come home. I dread days off and annual leave because work is the only place I connect with people. If your husband is in the UK or even not, then I'd be more than happy to become friends with him
@@garyhalkon8749 im so sorry that’s awful for you . We live in Sydney Australia , so regretfully not in the UK . I will talk to him tonight about it when he gets home from work , but no promises Gary he may not as … I don’t know why , it seems to be a concrete wall he hits , when it comes to interaction . Which makes this all so very difficult . I really hate this for you guys , you are all really great guys . ( not just in intelligence and academics ) but you’re all witty ,funny and smart your thoughts and opinions are so important and relevant . What is happening in the world .
Nice guys finish last
@@garyhalkon8749 hey 👋 im so sorry this is happening to you . I will tell my husband tonight after he gets home from work about you , you’re so cool ! But as you know it’s hard for him even if i reached out for him … there seems to be a real hard barrier that can’t be broken thru . All of you guys are so witty ,clever and so so funny . Sadly we are not in the UK but we live in Australia . Gary do you have a hobby ? I like art so ive joined 2 art groups on line . We zoom as a team as we’re all over the world . I know it’s not the same as in person but it’s a start in the right direction . Don’t be alone buddy you are too precious for that !!!!!
Don't feel bad. That's how I live too. I suspect once we get out of school it's our we spend our lives. It's funny, I was thinking earlier today about how people back in the tribe says probably felt a lot more connected..your surrounded by family, that all love each other, do their part to help out etc. not going to some random job and working for another tribe that doesn't give 2 shits about you besides are you working hard enough and bringing in enough money for his tribe. Humans are definitely not designed to operate as we are today. I don't think in the early days did we have drug issues, alcoholism, bankruptcy, divorces etc.
3 key reasons i hypothesize
1 men are naturally a little bit more of a loner than women to our own detriment
2 men are fear of coming off as weak an needy to other men admitting the longing for plutonic legitimate male comradery is often seen as weakness especially if your no longer a boy / teenager
3 men fear incurring homosexual misunderstanding, or any such awkwardness as overwhelmingly most friendless men are heterosexual or making friends with the wrong crowd (criminal. religious extremist, politically radical, frienemies/ opportunistic weirdos/sick-perverts or jus plain immature men an so on an so fourth.)
yeah a lot of Men don't empathize with each other and have only learned to value humor in friendships rather then integrity and loyalty. This isn't necessarily their fault, its the fault of their family, their fathers and mothers. It goes back man. Not everyone has the capacity to understand the importance, when they live in a world that praises materalistic gain over deep principles and community that tie us together. We live in a fake "society" that is actually a business that runs on human bodies. If it was a society we would be more closer, not as distant as we are now. Technology has evolved to further distract and divide us, to the benefit of the elite few.
@@createcontent4me-dx8ly “We live in a fake "society" that is actually a business that runs on human bodies.”
Epic, well said
I think the gay misunderstanding thing is very real. I think most men should stick to joining clubs and such rather than one on one friendship.
Steven Bartlett sat in the front row at The Comedy Store whilst I was the MC, I had no idea who he was but the entire audience did 😂 Glad you covered this topic here, life gets harder for men as we get older, and not all men can cope with the emotional difficulties of loneliness, but those who can and do, are able to help provide insight into uplifting ourselves. Ultimately, it all begins within, for all relationships are transactional, and every man has his gift to give the world.
A true friend feels like being in the room with your self, hopefully you love your self.
Profoundly simple yet powerful sentiment.
Honestly, every GD day is so packed & busy, I truly wouldn't know where to find the energy + time to make that happen.
I make sure to hug my 4-year-old son every day. I also don't have any friends. I want him to know I'll always be not just his father but his friend as well...
Thats good, man
You aren't supposed to be his friend.
@@frankstallone3864i think it helps? Besides i know alot of men who dont get to see there kids grow up or not want to see there kids grow up so id take a friend for life from my dad.
That's lovely but been there done that and let me tell you things get different when your kids become adults, your relationship from adult to child changes and they no longer see you as they did when they were a child.
You'll understand when the time comes, it's hard to put into words
@@crazyprayingmantis5596 I know exactly what you mean!
I haven’t had a friend since 2014. I used to have 3-4 good male friends as a teen and into my early 20’s but once I moved to another state, I never made a friend, and the old friendships fell off as we never saw each other and lived 20 hours away.
It’s probably the thing I miss the most, having other guys who share similar experiences and interests.
Something I've noticed is how many women are increasingly controlling in marriage - like how many guys now feel that they have to ask permission to go do something outside the house besides work - and this is so common, it's normalized and people don't even question it. And it's often subtle, in that women say their husband can do whatever they want, but then they create a ton of problems and arguments if the guy tries to have any sort of life outside the family. Guys end up (often without realizing it's happening over time) going out less and less making it difficult to maintain friendships. Guys that are single tend to spend much more time with friends or doing their own stuff like hobbies or sports.
Yes and in my own experience isolate their partners due to their own psychological insecurities. The cure to that is to do exactly what you want and let the silent or what tactic comes your way slide off your back. Its funny how if you just maintain your own course the eventually respect you for it. If not then just get out. Life’s to short for coercive bullshit.
Many guys turn their sovereignty over to their spouse. “I gotta ask the old lady”.
Most of it is that a lot of men can’t handle freedom. It is too heady an elixir.
DAVRO
@@sheilaoreilly6826 Exactly right Sheila. Pls excuse my previous written grammar - was still half asleep.
Some wives, not all wives, actively eliminate their husbands friends.
I’m my own best friend and that means I look after myself. I don’t really expect much from others so I’m never disappointed.
Hobbies are so important.
We put them on hold to raise kids, and in doing so we role-model this behaviour to our kids.
I believe that as a father it is my responsibility to show my kids that it is essential that I have hobbies and interests away from the home, with other adults.
I play in a band and I ride motorcycles with friends. Facebook groups, when used well, are an excellent resource for connecting men with others interested in the same hobbies.
It’s not selfish. It’s self care.
Same boat....I Emigrated to Sydney, got one friend and he was through work! Much older than me too. There's no places people go to hang out or meet up, there's no real traditional pubs or places to go. Everyone just lives in their own bubble. I'm glad I brought my wife otherwise I probably would never have survived here, due to lonliness. Only time I get to socialise is my old mate back in the UK who I xbox with every Sunday morning. It seems modern society has been built to keep people apart and there seems to be no incentive for people to want to make new friends.
New
What actually happens is your girlfriend freezes out your real friends & replaces them with the boyfriends of her friends.
It’s like pod people.
So, when the relationship ends you are on your own because you ignored your real friends. And you didn’t even know it happened.
@@InvidiousProductions that is very interesting to think about. Thank you.
You also have to spend a lot of time with other adults you don't necessarily have anything in common with when you have kids. By the time you've done all the kids stuff and friends of your wife you don't really have the bandwidth for anything else.
I’ve had some friends’ wives cut me out of friendships this way. Decades later they want to reconnect, but I realize I don’t like them anymore
It’s insidious
Yes, exactly this. Or the husband/boyfriend of her sister(S)
I remember pre digital. He made a great point that men’s friendships and bonding are done over activity. Our activity now is Digital. It’s a solitary pursuit.
I’m 54 now and had around 8 close friends up to 44 then they got married etc. still got 2 close friends from that group I still message and go drinks with. Moral of the story don’t lose contact with friends for a woman because you could end up lonely and it’s selfish
An important discussion. Thank you.
In my life experience as a 63 year old man, wives don’t like husbands to have friends. Wives in general don’t like husbands to have anything outside marriage.
Mmm I think you just met a wrongun and someone who was codependent. The signs are usually there, someone who has very little going on in their own lives, little to no friendships. The high level attention may be flattering in the beginning but it's not a healthy sign for long term. My partner has a great group of childhood friends,they meet up every week for chats and then plan trips and social gatherings for food etc. I need that time to myself, for myself and he gets to relate to his gender folk and allow his masculine side to pop out, when at home, he's a support and relaxed gent. we have good communication and balance and I find most of my friends are like that. They need the "me time" in a relationship to value the time spent together. Men can also be codependent and needy in a relationship if they do not maintain friendships and hobbies.
I believe that if a wife feels secure in her marriage, she will happily facilitate her husband having and keeping male friendships.
Blaming an entire gender lol. Def an incel.
Sorry this is abnormal..a healthy woman wouldnt mind and actively will encourage you to make friends
@@brownpunk1794Healthy women are abnormal, I think is the point 😜
Got 1 true friend, I'm grateful for that
Wow this is crazy and sad to hear. I am in my 40s, and I started making friends at 4 years old in the sandbox (actually literally) and I still meet some of them on an almost weekly basis and others irregularly. The "last" friends I made were like just a year ago at work and after they left we still meet up for lunches. I always found it really easy to make new friends and also stay in contact with them and I just assumed this was how it is for everybody. And no, I am not super rich and they want to play at my villa, I am not a celebrity or anything, I am just a normal guy. I just really really like people and relationships mean everything to me, having fun together and doing this. I put a lot of effort into it. Hearing about these stories makes me sad as hell, I really hope you, if you are lonely and reading this, can get out there and make friends. There is nothing more valuable.
This is very much the same for myself. This is such a broad topic to cover and everyones situation is different, female or male. However in current society overall the 'statistics' must indicate how challenging it is for men.
I’m 49, no actual sincere friends and it’s driving me insane. My wife doesn’t understand my pain
You said something really important "I put a lot of effort into it"
Have you ever wondered if you stopped putting effort into it if your friends would?
Because I realised that unless I initiated contact with my friends nd organised to catch up with them I'd never hear from them, so I decided to give them the opportunity to put some effort in and I stopped initiating contact and its been 14 months and I haven't heard from one of them and rarely hear from the others.
Do an experiment and stop initiating contact and see how long it takes for them to contact you and organise to hang out.
But you have to be prepared that you may not hear from them for a long time.
Friendships are fine while one person is putting in all the effort, but eventually you'll realise they're just taking and not giving anything back
Maintain the ones you have. Be available. Be real. Be kind. The closer all human relationships become the stronger and more sustainable humanity becomes
I've been going with the same three fellows to watch the football team we support for 30 years. We have a laugh, take the piss out of each other, discuss all sorts of subjects. I very rarely see any of them in between the matches and at times, when I was skint, almost dropped out going but boy am I glad I kept it going because they feel like my brothers now. The football used to be the reason, now its the excuse. P.S. I have a fabulous wife who has never ever given me a hard time for going out, be it to football or the pub.
years ago i made a conscious/part unconscious decision to not get close to anyone anymore. i have friends, but it's casual, intermittent, and kept at arms reach. do i miss having a "brother-like" connection to a friend? sure, but my experience is that you cannot fully trust anyone and the risk is not worth it.
Pain makes you stronger. Hiding from it isn't healthy.
@@carlyellison8498 on one hand i agree. on the other, ive experienced such acute pain and stress from relationships (both plutonic and romantic) that, in spite of my best efforts to care for my health, i figure my odds of having a stroke, coronary, or cancer have increased greatly. as humans, we are flawed and giving that beautiful unconditional trust that is the benchmark of a "deeper friendship" is simply to much health risk IMO. i am a 51yo, married father of two...i have much love in my life, but battle scarred wisdom will get me a better chance at some form of inner peace before its done.
Yes it's true you can't trust anyone. And in the end they all.let you down. But then that negative cancels itself out. You go in "knowing how it works" and accept it for what it is...
@@successsystem2468 i can grasp that fine, youre right -but it's still not worth it to me, personally. i think on some level, many of us are perpetually heartbroken because we wanted (and expected) more from humanity -heart and honor among other traits. of course, that's not what we are. but alas, not to worry -it'll all be over soon enough. limping to the finish line....
@@successsystem2468 -totally wise and i cannot disagree in the least. but my heart isnt rational as such..."damage"
I believe that people in big cities are lonelier.
It's full of people that are trying to chase their own dream and you can easily get lost in the mass. It's full of selfishness and superficial relationships.
People don't care about each other.
You can live in a apartment building for twenty years without knowing who your upstairs neighbour is. Hell, they can even die in there and you will first notice after three months when the hallway starts to smell.
Community is key if you want to produce a healthy human being. And big cities are lacking it.
Then on the other hand there is also the Stepford routine of toxic cliques you can find everywhere, especially in rural idylls, offices and backwaters. The basic problem we have is competition I would agree.
@@billyliar1614 Can you elaborate on the last sentence you wrote?
@@Braaaaaaa Not much to say. We live in a culture, especially in the US/Uk, which fosters competition. We are little consumer/producer units competing for status and resources and that doesn't really change when you move out of the city - something people normally are only able to do when they've gathered sufficient resources - but rather you are made more painfully aware of your status within the group. Isolation is to some extent a function of inequality - there are plenty of social cliques living in the big city too, not everybody is isolated. There is a big difference between 'community' and cliquishness and the fundamental basis of our society doesn't change, which is competition. It can be even worse in small insular communities for those excluded from the group . In the big city one may be atomised, but there is a liberty within that. Competition leads to distrust , which leads to isolation. Society places men under more intense pressure to compete with one another to join 'the club' and to meet conventional expectations of success, for women beyond childbirth it tends to be more optional. Women don't compete with one another to the same degree for career success and tend to form stronger social collectives, whether they're in the top club or not. OK, that was actually saying quite a bit , apologies :)
I live in a pretty small town and its lonely for a different reason. Just not a lot of people around, and in the modern age people (even rural people) just kind of chill inside or on their phone. When theyre not working of course. But at least its quiet and peaceful. Feeling lonely in a big city is different, for the reasons you described. Youre surrounded by people- who dont give a fuck about anything but themselves.
@@billyliar1614 Do you believe that competition is a social construct or a natural part of us?
There's probably a better model out there than what we have right now. We are on the other probably living in the richest era ever.
I believe that competition is a natural part of us and it can make you become a better version of yourself. It encourages growth and I believe that we as humans need that in life. Maybe not this hyperinflated growth that our western society is pushing, but a feeling of betterment.
Unfortunately a lot of people get left behind, because they deny to participate in the rat race. And isolation usually kicks in shortly after, which is not a healthy way to live your life.
I believe that buying into the rat race is a lot healthier, than the isolation route. You're at least not gonna suffer alone. I believe that a lot of life is suffering, but chosing to suffer with others is a better option if you ask me.
Sorry for the long reply 😅
Loneliness eats you from the inside out, leading to thoughts of self-harm.
So true.
What I am not hearing here is the loss of 3rd spaces for community gatherings and socializing.
Unless you invite someone to your place, which you probably have room mates, or a tiny space you have to go out and spend money every time you do anything.
Corporations have found a way to exploit, profit, and own every aspect of our lives.
This isn't exactly true. If the weather is good you can meet up at parks. If the weather is bad you can meet up at free social events. (Look up free events in my area.) You can also meet up at rec centers. Aot of them now have game rooms and activities free of charge. Libraries are another place where you can study and read together and talk quietly. They also hold free events.
You meet people who are good from far, but are far from good.
That's a Monet. Looks good from afar, but chaos up close.
Precisely. The majority.
I thought after making some new friends would help me get out of the loneliness and depression, but still I feel that void inside. Even when surrounded by people that care about me, I still feel isolated.
Same but I think its because we lack purpose. I coached kids track and field once and was the happiest I've ever been while watching the kids realize they can do difficult things, then when the season ended, back to the void.
Do those friends share similar values and goals.
That “void” was put there intentionally by God and can only be filled by Jesus!!! Surrender to Him. Today! 🙂✝️❤️✝️🌅
Its true. Jesus Christ is the creator and I felt the same void before I was in a restored relationship with him. Through faith in His blood he shed on the cross for humanity
Same. Only time I feel ok is when I’m immersed in projects. Was painting my basement and felt amazing. Purpose is lacking. I’m 46 with no kids.
"We're all just walking each other home" - Ram Dass
❤️
In my last relationship my gf always made fun of me for not having any friends. I had girl friends but no guy friends. I never talked about the girls. The day i made my first guy friend in years she became very jealous that we hungout out a lot and never wanted him around.
Thank God for this. I had to retire from work due to ill health 25 years ago. I'm really bad at keeping in touch with people and I've moved house all over the country 23 times. It also doesn't help that I'm Autistic. At 69 I don't have a friend and it's been that way for over 20 years. I thought it was just me.
Moving house wouldn't have helped - why did you do that ?
@@billyliar1614 for work
Imagine the profundity of shoulder to shoulder ; get the right amount of individuals and a circle will form.
I moved to a new place a few years ago to be near my dad who was ill. He’s better now but I can’t afford to leave. I was diagnosed autistic in 2020 and I find making friends very difficult; when I was younger it wasn’t so hard because I grew up in a small village and went to the village school where everyone knew everyone, but as I’ve got older it’s got harder and harder. I started a band in my 20s and gained a lot of friends in the local music scene, but when the band fell apart the friends disappeared. My gf is also autistic and isn’t very supportive, so I started seeing a therapist but her prices got too high and I can’t afford it anymore. I work at a university but there’s no opportunity for socialising and so I’ll often go for days without talking to anyone. The loneliness is destroying me. I have developed a painkiller addiction and can only sleep properly when I take powerful sleeping tablets. I don’t see anything changing in the future. When I was in my teens I had friends all around me and all I ever wanted was for them to be around for the whole of my life.
Hang in there man. I’m in a similar position, namely, feeling stuck. Best of luck brother. May we get through this.
Start another band
After decades of having what I thought were friends, I came to the understanding that I haven't had a real friend since I was a child. For a man, no other man will come to your rescue, if there is any chance it will negatively affect them. Some guys will say that their friend would back them up in a fight but the reality is that the person they think is their friend is doing it out of self interest because they enjoy fighting
Isn't that what a friend is? Another person whose interests happen to align with our own? Actually asking. I do agree though, if I understand what you're saying, that every interaction is a transaction. What I'm trying to say is that, at heart, we are all selfish.
@@hapster22 I have associates who I share the same common interest with. I find that only sharing a common interest and nothing more, benefits me the most. So yes, I am more selfish now than I have ever been. I am alone more but not more lonely
I think western culture is weird and unnatural generally
Fascinating clip. Whilst mentioned periodically in the media it feels as though these issues are still flying under the radar somewhat.
3 great friends that’s all I need social media is killing it all everything is fake
Talking about the 2 most used words with men taking their own lives..
I have those exact inner thoughts and feelings and I have been struggling with it for some years now.
I was watching while going for a walk and I just started crying because the person you're describing is me
I realised all my 'friends' were machiavellian and narcissistic so now avoid them - much happier
I had the same best friend since the age of 13, we hung out every night for way over a decade. Then he met this woman and we've not seen eachother since. I tried arranging everything but it was always shot down or ignored so I gave up. I got a new best friend now, beer. I wish I could say to all the men here something that can help. Just know that you absolutely matter
Fake friend been there
My workplace has banned friendships between colleagues. Workplaces these days have become totalitarian, my way or the highway (you signed the contract blah blah).
@@delaslight They all seem to have these "rules" these days. I'd like to see them enforce them though! 😅
@@lundswedenit is really interesting. From jobs to apartment leases, every industry seems to have identical contracts or terms for their industry. No competition at all. Makes you feel like there is something larger pulling the strings.
Can that be true? Where is this totalitarian company based?
My story; was a social butterfly and had a best friend. Was ghosted by best friend after 2 years of daily meeting & all social network all cared about just dating not me. As a man why invest in male friendships? At least women give you something before ghosting. Get a dog guys
This breaks my heart. EVERYONE has gifts and talents that they have to offer. It might take some time or help to figure it out, but we do.
The late WWE wrestler Shad Gaspard’s wife said at his induction, paraphrasing “Women are known for who they are. Men are known for what they do.” We have to provide something. Chris Rock spoke on this.
It's because men need an "excuse" to be friends (like working on a common project). We can be friend just for the sake of being friend. We need a frame
Just watched the full episode. Great and interesting conversation, covers a lot of ground. I have 4 brothers and 4 nephews and all of them could relate to a lot of the issues raised. Men need to Keep connecting, open up to eachother more and talk and support eachother.
Sometimes dudes just want to know if a 5 iron sounds reasonable… It doesn’t necessarily mean, “I love you”.
my whole experience of school was feminist teachers telling all the boys how worthless and unwanted we were to society. I found that I had a community at the airport where I was doing my pilots licence, I found a community at the cadets, if I only went to school I probably wouldn't be here now, the teachers made my life hell at school and dropping out of highschool felt like being cured of a disease and was the happiest day of my life.
Are you sure they weren't recounting statistics like men kill more men in society? Women are more likely to be killed by a man? That men subject female bodies to overkill? Those are established statistics. Was it things like that?
There are many truths about the gynocentric school systems and their abuse towards boys. Feminism has poisoned generations of women into believing the division of family and mistreatment of men and boys benifits women.
Damn thats crazy. Those teachers probably thought that because they had bad experiences with men in their life. And i dont mean it was necessarily some man in her life that hurt her. But a lot of women just dont know how to communicate with the men in their lives. But taking it out on school kids who youre supposed to be helping is just dark.
To be friends, you have to be peers first. If one has power over the other, no friendship is possible.
You find that after a certain age men are stuck in their ways and will make friends with those that will come into their world and share their interests, rather than meet halfway. Then the other party if said interest isn’t something they naturally share can’t be bothered doing that over a certain age just to “make friends”.
One example, I was following a former colleague on social media and noticed he was posting about cycling. So I reached out saying there’s a canal towpath in X place, would you like to do that?. The answer was like “oh no I don’t cycle on the flat”. So after that I didn’t bother then, no point chilling if it’s not equal and it’s other parties calling all the shots.
Very true I have a friend that I only see if I make the effort to either go to his place or i organise to do something.
Otherwise I don't hear from him or see him.
I have one, and just one...
Guy I met at work about 10 years ago. Great person, great friend. We don't see in person alot, 5-6 hours away. But we talk phone every few weeks. Better communication than w/ my wife (and more fun)... LOL
100% people need to be needed ! ❤
I will add , people don’t know how to treat each other anymore
I have one really good friend, a girl I went to school since grade 3 we never took it past friendship. In high school we bonded over late night bad horror movies on tv 12am every Friday. I was her best man at her wedding she was my best woman at mine, 30 years later we still have horror movie nights. She’s very special.
Jordan Peterson has kept me alive several years. I'd be way dead right now if I would have never heard of the guy.
Wow 😮❤❤❤
Glad to have you here friend. He sparked the change that I needed as well. Breaking problems down into small manageable parts was some of the best advice I’ve ever received.
Me too, friend. Me too. Jordan Peterson has literally been a good father figure for me - a light in the darkness when I could not see.
That's kind of sad actually
We are designed to be social and when you’re alone there is no one to help and share happiness and problems. At its worst, it can feel like a form of death.
I have one left, i thought that i had 3 close friends, but covid put a stop to that. 2 lost their minds an went in the rabbit hole, and started shit talking and disrespecting me because of my pragmatic view of the situation. The one i have left i have known since i was 4 years old, he is like a brother. we meet up 7-8 times a year.
Covid and Trump both combined in a deadly way. At least one third of the country for a time was sucked down Trump's dystopian view of what America should be. Based on some comments online, I suspect that some of the people who voted for Trump in 2016 or 2020 have since decided that their vote(s) was/were a major mistake after January 6th. I live in hope that they have seen the light and will not vote for Trump again in 2024.
Yeah covid was a real strange time and friendships definitely got weird, I think it is a big reason why lots of people have lost touch with their friends or at least aren't as close as they were.
It divided people, myself and my family didn't want or get the jab and a lot of my friends have changed towards us since.
The conversation about male suicide was fascinating. I’d love to do a study where they monitored two groups of depressed / suicidal men - one group who go about their daily lives as normal and the other group who are given a dog. Whenever I feel useless or alone I know that my dog needs me and loves me unconditionally and that instantly gives me purpose in life the way nothing else can
Take up golf, I’m not kidding. Doesn’t matter how much you suck at it, you’ll will find some of the best friends in your life and the networking will take you to places you could never imagine.
@@caseycoleman7227 this is an excellent point. It doesn’t even have to be golf. Find anything you enjoy doing that is somewhat interactive, and you will find others who enjoy the same thing. Shared appreciation is a great basis for a new friendship. Pickleball, quilting, model airplanes, cooking, reading, you name it. Just as long as it’s something you have a passion for.
My wife and I just talked about this the other day. She says I have no friends. Which she is right about. I told her men socialize differently then women do. I have lots of men that I am friendly with but no we don't hang out together.
and I am OK with that.
Very true, but you misunderstand her. She's telling you, even though she doesn't realize it, that having a hangout buddy or 2 will make you more attractive to her. It's social proof that you were a catch. She's doubting your worth subconsciously. I've been there.
*"How do I make friends?" Those are genuinely the saddest words I have heard in a while.*
Feminism is what caused that and this guest is nothing but a male feminist who was sent by feminists to do damage control. Because the problems of what they have done started to backfire
You don't, it happens all by itself when you're around someone you talk to and otherwise get along with.
That doesn't mean they're lifelong, most friendships are temporary.
@@devilsoffspring5519 You are right that most friendships are temporary, they could be even 15 years but most people move and change places. Also, that may be a bit more challenging with people who live in big cities because at some point people get married. and after some time they tend to move a bit outside the city, but can you still keep the connection by putting some effort.