"Church" musicians main concerns, popularity, money, recognition, etcetera, this flies in the face of the spirit of the gospel, as well as the use of spiritual gifts
The church has been promoting talent over character for a long time, not just in worship. Mostly because it’s about the “performance” now. Not the lifestyle
I’ve been a worshipping drummer since 2006. I was self conscious in the beginning, but realized that my focus needed to be on worshipping The Lord. I’ve had the opportunity to share drum duties with players that had way better chops and music education than me. All I’ve tried to do is to learn from them and not make comparisons. They’re better than me, so what? Where’s my heart? On multiple occasions after a church service, I’d tell my drumming counterpart, “Hey, make sure to leave a little bit of that anointing on my drums so it’ll rub off on me when it’s my turn to play😉”. We’d both have a chuckle
5:45 - Oh there is a reason these things run rampant in the "church music industry". It's mostly because many churches hire musicians who play christian music instead of having Christians who play music. As a Music Ministry leader, my walk with God comes before my musical skill. We have had many instances of people offering their services to play at our church and we said no every time. All of our singers and musicians come from our congregation so we know what they believe in and where they stand with God. Singing and playing with my team and those from our sister churches is a wonderful experience because we all put God first. Pretty simple concept.
I think the most dangerous thing for Church musicians today is to treat Church services/concert as replacement for vanity that they desire from secular music industry so to speak, like they knew they couldn't be a rockstar but in this Christian music platform they could be a CCM Rockstar so to speak
Church services shouldn't be a concert. The musical instrument(s) are just a guide for the actual instrument by which the parishioners worship the Lord - the sacred harp, the human voice.
Yes! The band is only a GUIDE. It’s the Holy Spirit leads people in worship. As church musicians, we need to remember that people worship God in spite of us, not BECAUSE of us. We play music as a guide, but it’s not necessary. He answered, “I tell you, if these were silent, the very stones would cry out.” Luke 19:40 (ESV)
Wow. All of these sound so foreign to me. All the musicians I surrendered myself in our church are awesome, kind people. I know I am the weakest musician there but I feel the love and encouragement from my team.
Folks see only what they are looking for, saying something nice is not good for views... slamming church folks, hey, thats great for views, comments and likes. Simple as that. I'll e marking this channel as Do Not Recommend after this one.
You are 100% accurate. I dealt with all that jealousy and aggressive, bad behavior from 1988 to 2020. In 2020, I got out of it and we have watched church online since. After having countless people tell me I was very talented, I got tired of coming home brain stressed and having to pull the daggers out of my back (figuratively).
that is why every church musician needs to be rooted in the word of God so we know what humbleness is and a lot more...we are not there just to play but to serve others
Amen! I've read almost all of the comments and your's is the best and the most correct comment and my prayer is for the author of this video along with some of the people commenting to take a quick look at your comment and maybe they'll understand exactly how it should be...🙏
I'm a drummer and I'm there. Because I love God. You're right when it becomes a production in a contest. On who's better? It definitely gets worse. I love watching drum covers of different songs before I play them because I know I'm not the greatest drummer in the world but I just love doing it. And my aim would always be to give God the glory and not myself. Pride is the biggest killer of all of us. And I don't think there's a musician out there. That doesn't have a Battle with pride. And also what helps is I don't get paid. I do it for the joy of it that helps a lot.
I was a church musician for years and the disrespect and aggressive behavior was everywhere. It’s amazing how supportive the rest of the musical world is compared to church.
Thats sad you would least expect that in church.Some body tried to get me in to play drums and the leader basicly said NO WAY! Im having no part in that kind of life church yes drama no way.
I had a disheartening experience years ago. My wife's grandmother passed away and she was a member of another church in our town. The family requested since I was a guitar player that I play a song and all the grandchildren sing it for the family. So some of them rarely sang in public I encouraged them to sing and to remember that we are singing this song to comfort the family and to remember that this was one of her favorites songs. So naturally the only one there who was close to being a professional musician and the rest were absolutely amateurs, as a group we did ok and they sang from the heart which helped to bring ministry to family but we by no means sounded like a professional group but we served our purpose. After we all sat down immediately the singer from their church got up and sang the very same song we just sang to show off how much better he could sing it. I felt like he just slapped us across the face by showing off how much better he was as a singer then our whole little choir was. I lost a lot of respect for that church that day. Everyone there noticed what he did and wasn't impressed and actually made the service worse for doing it. Many years later we had a special event at our church and our choir was practiced up for it and had several songs we were going to sing and we had guest singers come up and play and sing and one little group sang one of the songs that we were planning on singing.. What did we do? We scrubbed that song from our list immediately and did another song. That is what they should have done instead of trying to show off.
People go to the Doctor / hospital when they are physically sick. Likewise, people go to church when they are spiritually & morally sick. Musicians have a tendency to bring the same ill attitude to the church that they had when they were in the secular world playing music in secular bands
Great news for you brother!! Not all churches and church musicians have been invaded with those kind of spirits. I’m on the Worship team at The Bridge in Warrenton, VA and we’ve never had any of that , even in minuscule amounts. Come worship with us!
I had an experience recently, I am a pretty new keyboardist for my small church and I am very much green skill level. My praise group when to another church for an event and the keyboardist there was so good it really affected my self esteem. Now I’ve play music for years on other instruments and this guy made me want to quit music because I felt I would never be that good. I soon realized I was foolish and I attempt to have my pastor reach out to this musician so that I could potentially get some lessons and never got a response. I took it upon myself to use resources like RUclips and different things and invest the time to get better. Now on this date I would say I’m still very much learning but I inspire to one day be a very talented keyboardist and can help elevate our praise team to the next level.
As an atheist who used to be a regular Sunday church keyboardist, I've never seen the behavior you described. In fact, its always been a joy to watch other people play on my gear, many of them possessing superior skills. I left the church gigs because I didn't like adapting to the whole belief thing. But hands down, Gospel music is some of best music and fun to play.
No matter how much work you put into your musicianship, there will always be people who think you suck and yes, it is much more important to not take yourself seriously as person and as a musician while striving to improve on what you currently have. Just my two cents. I appreciate the fact that you came out with this.
Now this was not what I expected from the video title. This was a blessing. Thank you. I’m old and experienced enough not to suffer from these issues (mostly. Still human and a sinner) but I can see this happening since it is a real problem in secular music. When I started playing worship music again, my goal was and continues to be simple - that I use the talent God gave me to reach one person and open their hearts to His glory. My hands and heart, His melodies…
I appreciate what you shared here. What I grew up with was musicians watching and listening to each other, respecting what each other was doing. The “performance” mindset is destroying many ministries. The focus should be on ministering, engaging the people with the Word of God.
Bro you have take a page out of my life right there. I started early using hardware sequencing and played a lot of the parts in the sequencer but played only the main piano parts or Rhodes parts to the point it sounded very close to the records. My strong points were not Hammond B3 or lush chords but I did try to minister without fear to my own strengths. I ran across the cocky types that I would ask to show me their chords or techniques but they wouldn’t. These were the pre laptop days for sounds and sequences. I just stayed in my lane and developed what God had given me. Great video!!!
As both a worship leader and frontman for a cover band that plays in clubs, I have learned that your actions speak louder than the actions of those against you. Remove yourself from envy as well as arrogance, no matter how good or bad you are. These are basic biblical principals. You be the supportive voice, you be the servant hearted person regardless of those around you. I find these things have benefitted me in both worship and club music scene, as well as in life in general.
You're courageous for talking about these "unwritten rules" in music that no one really talks about but WE ALL KNOW are definitely real issues!!!🙏🙏🙏👍👍👍👏👏👏
Thanks for saying stupid! I like you right away!. We don't have envy problems where I'm at. We are a struggling small small church. Thanks for the warnings. Human sinful nature
Well, I'll differ with you on a few points. Comparison isn't the problem. Lack of musical leadership is THE problem. I gave up playing in worship teams and probably won't ever again. I got tired of the lack of practice, lack of professionalism and lack of capability and talent. There was no leadership or direction. Every Sunday was stressful and nothing but chaos. Then to top it off, the church leadership makes up "Christianese" excuses for the horrible performances (yes, I shamelessly and without guilt used the P-word here.) "We're not performing..." or, "We're just here to make a joyful noise..." or, "It's not about us..." All of these bogus, pious sounding phrases are lame excuses for lack of work ethic, lack of effort and lack of skill. I do have my own outreach band and none of us are "professional" musicians, in that we don't get paid to play. We play at the local Gospel Mission and other church events. We act professional. We practice. We show up. We are punctual. We have our own professional PA system. And, the best part is that we LOVE what we do - the music, the ministry and each other. We have a common goal and none of us places our self above the others. I am the band leader but I see myself as more of a traffic cop - the guy that focuses our efforts and keeps the group on track. I am not a dictator. I don't even pick the music most of the time. I keep us on time, run the practices and have the final say on arrangements when a disagreement (rare) breaks out. There is nothing wrong with the music ministry couldn't be solved by some education on the part of the leadership, and some common sense. /rant.
If you got away from playing churches and religious crap events and write some non religious songs, you can get somewhere. All you are is a side show with the religious crowd while they lie about every word in the Bible. Play some bars and the audience is actually there to see you. It’s a much more fulfilling experience than playing for a cult.
@ Man I totally get what you say and agree. I spent 10 years on worship team with my church and dealt with this all the time. The attitude was as bad or worse than playing secular music. Fortunately my bass playing skills and experience spoke itself but I was about worshiping and encouraging other players and I enjoy it when others shine before the Lord. It’s a heart issue for sure and I no longer wanted to be a part of it.
Man I hear you on some of the disorganization stuff for sure. At my former church we did practice on Tues nights, then sometimes things would change or different ideas were sprung on us at Sunday morning rehearsals. The explanation would be something like "We're never going to miss an opportunity to make the experience better. " (They were big on the word "experience, " as in "worship experience") I said well it's not going to come across as better if the band messes up, or some of these younger players can't adapt to the disorganization. But they also became more about style over substance in some other significant ways, hence it being my FORMER church.
@@Mark-db1ok I once had a worship leader tell me that he did not rehearse his worship band because not rehearsing kept them humble. That was my last stint on a worship team. I'd had enough by then. Sadly, ineptitude has replaced humility. I just can't get into the irony of sucking at the job just so I can be called humble or avoid the "performance" label.
You speaking the truth bro....I play both church & secular. gigs.......sad to say the worst musicians & the ones i've had a hard time with are actual church musicians...There behaviour is worst than the secular ones i've worked with & still a joy to work with.....Its really sad, as it should really be the other way around....sigh!
Brother, I needed to hear your overall message here: Don't live in comparison-mentality. Otherwise, envy will be a fundamental stumbling block. IMO, Envy is an often-overlooked sin which is incredibly corrosive, thieving, divisive, destructive. Life IS unfair. For everyone. Artists and Non-Artists alike. Just and unjust. At a deeper level it is a matter of Faith. It's the Salieri Syndrome. Are we going to live our lives out embittered, plotting our fellow Christian's demise, throwing our hands up at God in disgust for giving "them" more notoriety, sales, fame, than our so-called "sincere" attempts to Honor Him? It's a real issue in life in general for all of us. ****Do we actually trust God? The fruit will bear us out. If we make the slightest comment of envy, of digging at a brother or sister, of talking behind their back, then that clearly displays our pride, lack of faith, perhaps resentment against God. On the flipside: How cool would it be to be FOR each other!? The Church would be transformed. P.S. - Actually, for the Church to transform and live up to greater power, unity, and love, she would need to thoroughly repent of any and all hypocrisies. Everyone, you, me, everyone, must vigilantly and diligently be consistent, not a hypocrite. That takes the discipline of being boldly honest with ourselves about any BS that we are hiding from while pointing something out in another's eye. Let us ALL guard against hypocrisy!
@@NelsonBlakeIIagain why are you defending non church musicians? Like bro its okay to admit that they're not perfect either. You clearly haven't met or at least read things about secular musicians either, it's not always as perfect as you make it, and this is coming from a secular musician
As a church musician, I don’t do this. I’ve never been one to compare myself to others. I always celebrate others. It’s great for me most of the time but when I was in school it translated to a lack of being competitive. This lack prevented me from landing roles and solos.
This is a great reminder that as church musicians we should be giving all the glory to God! Without Him, we wouldn’t have been blessed with the skills, gifts, and talents to make a joyful noise. If I can reduce myself and just have God fill the space, that’s all I want as a musician.
I follow a lot of musicians, but I don't get jealouis, in fact, I'm just genuinely impressed. I play keyboard, try to play guitar. Even though I taken piano and guitar lessons, most of what I do with my synths is design sounds and use them when compsoing in Ableton. I am good at designing sound, so that is what I help other musicians with, or give suggestions for. I doin't try to help them do things I know they are better at. But, also, I know I don't practice enough, and I only blame myself for that. I also don't envy people that practice more than I am. I don't even feel guilty for not practicing enough, Ithere's other things I rather spend time doing. I'm not a pro musician, I have a home studio, but it's for my entertainment for the most part. Just a hobby. BTW, I'm retired, so this attidute of mine fits. If you need a job, then practice, practice, practice. There was a time when I spent most of my time just practicing. But when the era of the DAW started, I started to focus on the part of music I enjoyed the most, composition, without needing a band to fully realize my ideas.
I am a drummer in a very small church venue. I agree with you. Your worship music should reflect your heart for Jesus, not your absolute professional music ability. 74 and retired, sorta, don't practice and bring what God provides to every service. I'm a guitar player, as well, with only mediocre ability. God only wants your best.
You are a rare breed! This is what I focused on from day 1. Sometimes ppl will try to make you feel some type of way because you choose not to focus on the whose who. Do you and your strengths because what you do is needed and your own lane. God bless you!!!!
Life is too short to bring another musician down just because they are not the best. Instead of comparing, encouage each other and be a positive influence on other musicians despite the level..WeAllNeedJesus!!!! TIME IS WINDING UP AND JESUS IS NOT GOING TO COMPARE MUSICIANS..ALL WHO BELIEVE, REPENT, AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS WILL BE IN HEAVEN REJOICING AND PRAISING GOD ON THE THRONE!!! NO COMPARISON NECESSARY!!!
Thank you for posting this. I feel it completely. I got my start playing both in church and in jazz bands. It's tough because, in both cases, the bar is high and you have to find ways to play with good players (often who aren't incredibly respectful or socially graceful) so you can "learn the lesson" to improve. I think there's something to that though, ultimately, I realized that doing anything with people who aren't respectful, who aren't caring, who aren't able to be patient with other skill levels isn't sustainable. Perfection is not the expectation here, though I've often seen players that use the social dynamics of music to really be horrible to others, to be dismissive of other's work, to be invasive about their expectation in a really weird way. For me, the ONLY way I know how to do music and be happy is to be super choosey about who I play with. I play solo a lot with a looper though when I'm leading on the bandstand I choose cats that I love them, love their playing, and trust them. I also push HARD to make sure that I'm articulating my vision directly though as respectful as I know how, also making sure that money made is split evenly. I want to be an example and I take pride that no one can say I owe them money or screwed them over. To me this is THE only way to make music - with people you love because, like cooking, or anything activities done with love make for a better result. I appreciate what you're saying and I hope that musicians find ways to make music with passion, joy, respect both for the music though for the musicians and audience. It has to be there or it isn't worth doing.
I’d like to thank you for making this video! I’ve struggled for sometime now wondering if maybe I was doing something wrong. I never really thought about jealousy among other musicians. You see I have spent so long playing in secular bands that when I finally came to Christ, all I wanted to do was use my talent for him. I had just assumed everyone else was the same. But not long ago, someone had started a rumor in the church that I wanted to take everything over. They also said I wanted to cut people out and none of that was the truth. I never said anything like that or plan to do anything like that. I later found out who it was that started the rumor and it turns out that individual wanted to get rid of me for some reason. I got three minutes into this video and found myself blessed by what you were saying. I truly believe God had you make this video six months ago for me. Thank you for what you do. Be blessed and jam on brother!
I had the same thought as you when I came to Christ - everyone in the church was a new creation and now living in and speaking truth and God's love. Nothing could have been further from the truth. Too many churchians (worldly people who "worship with their lips but their hearts are far from Me." The gossip, lies, and manipulators were everywhere. It's so bad in the Va Bch area that I no longer attend church. Churches here are cloned it seems, loud music, preachers who speak yet never mention God or if they do, there's no deep insight, just low hanging fruit. The people walk in and right back out. They don't know one another deeply. What you experienced is known as gaslighting. It's a mark of Satan, the first to fall to 'self', thus becoming the father of narcissists/leftists. Read John 8:44, Ecc 10:2, Is 5:20, and Ro 1:22. They paint a single picture and give great understanding to their character and worldview.
This doesn’t just apply to church musicians. As I’m listening to these wise words, I feel like we’re speaking one on one! Amen to all that brother! God has spoken!!!
I really like and agree with what was said. I’m a keyboardist in a group, and for my church, and I’m grateful to be part of such a ministry. As far as church musicians on social media all I see are people showcasing, showing off, and doing the most. My ability is a gift from God, and I use it for his glory and honor not to show the next guy how dope I am. I love playing the keyboard, and I’m grateful when someone tells me they were blessed, or I did a great job. There’s nothing wrong with playing to the best of your ability and with enthusiasm, but vanity, pride, and arrogance has no place in the house of God.
This issue is not only in the church but in the secular world as well -- better known as 'ego'. Having an unbalanced ego is obvious and word gets around quick, resulting in fewer and fewer gigs. The sad part is -- when you're known as someone with ego issues -- you're 'blackballed' in the community. Having a mature balanced outlook is important, because it's all about what makes the band / team sound good. There's a flow and a feeling of comradeship. Everyone walks away feeling energized and congratulatory. Being in a band, everyone plays a part for the overall sound. There are no stars. Another thing: those who have a mature and humble approach are generally 'monster' players. These type have already worked out their personal feelings of inadequacy or superiority, with a settled sense of their prowess, and feel that trying to prove something is not only a waste of time, but creates strife and competition. They are humble because they are realistic about their limitations -- although they may be as good as the best out there. It's all no big deal to them. It's a matter of "Let's jam!" These are what is known as 'the professionals'. When it stops being fun, it's time to pack up. And believe me it shows in the overall sound. Always remember: there is ALWAYS someone else who can do the job better. Give it your best and be known as a fun person to work with. You get a LOT further that way, and get hired over the one with all the chops -- because you are nice, and deliver the adequate element that makes the band sound better. That's the goal. BTW I am a former Nashville session player and producer for 35 years. I've worked with the best, and I've found that all the WORKING players have this attitude. Church has to play it careful so as to not offend anyone. Session folk focus on professionalism, maturity, and great chops. Sure would be nice to see the church crowd rise up to the level of real pros.
Have you met other secular musicians from other scenes? They don't act like this at all. Extremely friendly and helpful. The easiest part of visiting a new city is making friends with fellow guitar players.
I agree 100% with your comment. Be friendly, humble, personable, professional, and PREPARED. The gigs will find YOU if you have built an honorable and dependable name and reputation among your network of musicians.
Story I got from an industry monitor mixer I talked to this week at AES. A music industry “star” fired a mixer who was a working monitor mixer because…they smiled too much. The “star” found it weird. So, secular just acts on their feelings. While church teams hold it all in sometimes and just turns into passive aggressive treatment for years.
I have played country and rock music with musicians far more experienced and professional than myself. I have never been met with dismissal like that of worship leaders with degrees, who had never played outside the church.
@@stevespringer122 good point and though I have not reached too far in the CCM genre other than local churches here, I kind of think you're on to something. Lot of passive aggressive out there - they may not even know about it. Maybe it's taught in those schools they went to.
Terence, thanks for talking about these things. I’ve been a professional musician for most of my life, tho I’ve only played a handful of church gigs. I used to be “one of those” you talk about. What changed my mind was working with musicians who were several levels better than me. Musical idols really. When working with them, there were so generous and encouraging! It made me a better musician simply because I felt like they believed in me. Playing with them made me play better. That experience made me decide from that moment forward that I wanted to be like that for others. Yes the detractors are out there. I’ve learned to kinda say “You do you man good luck!”
I have ran into many musicians who are arrogant and disrespectful to God and others around them. One time, my pastor was preaching at another church and band always accompanies. Well, due to unforseen complications our piano player was held up and it was just me (Drummer) and singers. I was asked to come up and sit in from the pulpit, so the drummer was cool but the organ player wasn't. Talk about cold shoulder, no communication with me at all for hits or anything. By the grace of God everything went well, but my wife told me later the looks, the talking to each other about me etc was crazy. (She is a singer and was across the stage able to see everything.) But this is one of several stories that I've seen throughout the years.
I am part of a band called new wine. And some of the stuff that happened effected some of us to a point some of us left for our own reason if you get what I mean. I learned to respect everyone. Rather If they play with the top dogs of the same band or with others in the same band but different locations.
I watched this thinking Terence was going to talk about Churches all using backing tracks and trying to sound like Hillsong or Planet Shakers or Bethel and I was surprised that he spoke on a more personal level which I really appreciated. Us creative ministry types always need to check our egos and motivations. Then I realised the error of "comparison" is also a weakness of Pastors... which is why their churches use backing tracks and try to sound like Hillsong or Planet Shakers or Bethel. I'm saying this as a Church Musician (guitar/piano/bass), Worship Leader & front of house mix veteran for nearly 40 years now. Don't do much anymore but still help out front of house sound occasionally with some advice. Good video, Terence. Thank you for posting.
It’s crazy because I’m in the heavy metal scene and I’ve never experienced that level of jealousy or disrespect since ‘98. If anything, the level of camaraderie is crazy. Metal guitar players KNOW they can walk up to each other and talk gear/technique with no drama.
I've played jazz/r&b scene, alternative scene, cover band scene, and even the gospel scene (still playing for churches and quartet groups). And it's crazy, cause, till this day, I still say out of all of the genres, I would rather still be playing alternative. The atmosphere was way better, and just as you said, you could walk up to a musician from another band and hold a whole conversation with no issues what so ever. I've gotten more love and respect from the alternative world than I ever have from the gospel musician world, and I was raised in the gospel music world.
As a professional touring musician who has worked with approximately 18 well-known recording artists, I can tell you, there is zero originality in contemporary Christian music. In the 3 to 4 churches that I’ve played they wanted it to sound exactly like the record, with no feel or originality and to make the song the worship teams own. As a guitarist, can any Christian guitarist write a part other than U2’s The Edge recycled parts but in different keys?? Nashville cranks out this stuff like pork sausage, I guess I shouldn’t expect much 😢😂
We got rid of most of our instrumentalists except for keys and drums and just use tracks for the rest. The focus is 100% on worshipping together and praying together with the worship team and it has been so much better ever since. No one missed the band drama at all.
Been singing and playing guitar and bass at my home church and various other churches for 25 years. I’ve never experienced any of this. The worst experience I’ve had was trying to mesh musically with a new music leader that was much “calmer” then any of us were used to. We basically had to relearn songs we had been playing together for years. There were no ego problems, we just wanted him to “step on the gas” occasionally.
I played in basement band , rock n roll, many years ago and we were small with occasional gig playing before a decent crowd and what I noticed after awhile was that the lead guys were always more interested in impressing the one or two other musicians in the crowd than putting on a good show for the whole of the people.
Being a lifelong musician, I was encouraged by some family members to play in church. I figured I would meet up with other musicians who were there to praise God and would check their egos at the door. Unfortunately, the musicians I encountered were far worse ego wise than any musicians I ever encountered in any of the hundreds of rock clubs I played at over the years. A bunch of stuck up egomaniacs in a tight click is what I discovered. I have been a musician for 55 years, and these novices should be more concerned with sharing their gift and raising their voices to God, then trying to show off their talent. Or in this case, lack there of. Don’t think for a moment that just because they’re playing in church that they are religious or enlightened individuals. Sorry, but that was my experience.
What I have found over my years is that a lot of people ( not all ) when they get some ' special ' training or discover they have some kind of talent start to think that they are some kind of special human being. Sometimes their heads get so big they have trouble going through doors ( if you know what I mean ) Musicians usually the worst.
@@michaelszczys8316 I don’t know why that happens, but you’re correct. There’s nothing more special about a musician than there is any other professional, regardless of the field they’re in. My mistake was in thinking that these people were above that sort of thing, because after all, they’re playing in church. But they’re basically musicians playing in church and sinning simultaneously. You know what religion says about ego. And about treating everyone equally, and not passing judgment on others. These people were on that same ego trip, only they were hiding it (or trying to) behind the guise of religion and playing in a church. Naturally, I’m not speaking for ALL church musicians, just this particular group of people. If you can’t check your ego at the door for God, then, who the heck can you check it for?
Bruh thank you. This video was for I'm sure of it. I'll be celebrating my own progress on my jam sessions and accept the acknowledgment of that progress. Thanks again bruh!👊🏾✊🏾👊🏾✊🏾
thank you for speaking on this. I've had to deal with this for a very long time. another issue that hurts and can discourage musicians is when you are compared to others and then dismissed. Meaning, when certain musicians are around, people that you would normally cover don't want you to play for them. and I've also experienced that issue you spoke about. and because of the musicians being a certain way, i actually had to teach myself. that's a very lonely road. But God!
I'm 65 and have done worship since the 70's. It's been like you say for a while, but one of the most fun and humble and sharing musicians I was lucky enough to play with was Kim Clement. Awesome guy.
As a worship leader I am constantly aware that our focus primarily is to give glory to God. We don't have those types of issues when people are focused on worship. We also are a small church right now and the worship team/praise band is all volunteer. But our focused dedication to praising god enables us to use the gifts God has given us to his glory. Some members are further along in their musical development but there is a place for everyone.
same with our church, we volunteer, we make mistakes but we do it to the glory of God. I think this video applies to super churches with congregations of 1000's
I love your information! It's spot on. I'm a bass player of over 40 years. I have performed in very few bands. Most bands I've been last years. For the past 10 years I've played with the same 3 people. I'm also a band leader. Booking, setting rehearsal times if needed, set list, money handling and fielding problems. There is more but, not going into it. When a rehearsal doesn't go right I'm always the person to stop a song and point out what just isn't right. If left unmentioned the other 3 members would just continue down the wrong path. No one pointing out an issue. The other 3 personnel are passive and never point out a problem. I have no idea why? They have every right to, they are all good musicians, they know when something is defunct. But, they just don't. When I do It, it makes me out to be the eternal bad guy and I hate it. I've told them time n time again to speak up if something is amiss. But, to no avail. I'm thinking it's because I'm BL and they believe they are stepping on my toes. They have repeatedly been told the opposite. Part of the problem arises because the drummer tries to learn music off his phone. That just doesn't work, and frustrates me big time! He fails to practice. I've brought it up but no change. I've invited hime my studio to learn music, no show, ever. He misses (we) miss so much because of this. I have a hard time because of it at times. We are a good band. Busy but, my personal internal unannounced struggles / frustration with this are building. But, I deal with it. The afore mentioned concerns are tough. Sorry about the rant!
I'm a church musician, so I'm watching this video. :) Oh my goodness. Comparison. Envy. I'm a target, not a participant; the thing is, I never saw it coming when I started bringing my guitar to church in 1983. The stories I could tell. And I love to tell stories, but I don't name names.... I've seen every situation you mention in this video, but I've also seen some awesome times in the Holy Ghost. Some of the most incredible times I've had have come from playing with musicians who (I believe) were better than I am. Your most quotable line in this video for me was, "No musician ever has become successful by conforming to other people's expectations of them." Great video.
I don't play in a church band but I really like the thought process and sentiment here and I think the message can be applied to anyone in the arts. I think once we take our ego out of it and like you said, celebrate our own journey and success then we are doing what the art was intended to do and that is to bring people together. Great message, and loved the vid!👍❤️
Hey Terence, good stuff. I play in three churches, 2 German and one middle eastern. I also used to do Praise Evenings for immigrants too. It took me a long time to accept what you just said in a few minutes: There are people who are better than me (and people who are not), and that's OK. I guess where it hit me was the realization, yeah so-and-so might be better than me, but here I am playing and he's not, so... At one of my churches there is a well-known professional player of my same instrument, who could beat me down if he wanted to, but he's a gentleman and when I play a service he tells everybody I was good. Then after the service he plays traditional tunes in the social room and everybody loves it. It's all good.
Thanks Mr. Fisher. We all need to learn humility and patience, especially in the church environment. I don't know what it is like to be paid as a church musician, but always bring my best (e.guitar) and I've had plenty of frustration with other's lack of musicianship. I try hard to have a smile when I'm concentrating on difficult passages, and sometimes I actually receive un-solicited positive responses from the congregants in the form of a compliment off stage. It comes down to why I am up there. It's not about me, but I always bring my best.🙂
I had this problem at the church I used to play at. I had this guy who played piano and was the main piano player there, and he was the sound man as well. So when I would play the piano he would lower my volume so nobody could hear me playing for the group I was playing for. It was so embarrassing and discouraging. Thank God I'm not there anymore!
The reason for all of this trouble lies with the corruption of worship within the modern church. Everyone seems to have forgotten that true worship is not performance based music. The purpose of worship music is to serve as a background to lead the congregation into group praise. Modern “worship music” is not Christ centered and it does not place God at the center. It is all about ego. The church service is NO PLACE for a concert where the focus is on the musicians. If you had only considered the role of worship involves the central place of the pulpit being God Himself and our songs to be to exalt Him and not elevate our emotions and the feelings we get, we would have never allowed this abominable practice of modern crap music. I say this as a saxophonist who loves music. What is happening in churches musically is not worship. It is the intrusion into the house of God of our modern culture and mediocrity of “music”. Our worship should contain biblical text and those things which abase man and extol God. The Lord has given us a song book of 150 songs to worship Him with (Psalms). Instead these are not good enough for us! We rather insist on writing banal and inane childish lyrics which make ourselves “feel” good. This is not worship. This is man-centered entertainment. It does not involve biblical thinking with deep words which come from Scripture. We write songs with pronouns, “I, Me, My” and tell others to look at me and how I worship and love God. No, you don’t. That’s why you’re here to confess and receive forgiveness. We tell each other that we lift our hearts and hands to Jesus. No you don’t. You come here with unclean hearts and hands and you are a poor beggar in need of grace. Your entire life is one of self praise and self worship. You want to hear what worship sounds like? Listen to Bach and see in one instant the difference. It’s not about you and your feelings and emotion. This which you speak of is merely crappy pop music which is the fast food equivalent of “worship”. It has no substance and lack nutrition. It is new and modern and patterned after the world. It will only give you gas and leave you bloated with heart disease and diabetes The modern church has left their true love for self-feeding, emotional filling, and a cheap imitation of a crappy worldly concert which they can “feel” good about. Remember, worship is not about you. It’s about what God says pleases Him. The modern church may be louder and more animated than ever. It may be filled with cool drums and synthesizers and singers with cool haircuts and flashy designer clothes and fake wigs and everything which screams, “Look at me and how great of a player or singer I am!” You might think you can lead someone to Jesus through a minor chord, but brother, this IS NOT true worship. It is the image of Satan and the world infiltrating the house of God. Repent, return to scripture and to what God has said pleases Him. Give up your pride and excuses to be at the center of entertainment. Let go of the power you feel to play and write songs to direct someone’s emotions. The church needs to repent for creating “pastors of worship” and return to the simplicity which places the preaching of the Gospel at the center of the pulpit. Want to go to a concert? Then go to a concert. Want to worship God? Do you really? Then turn down the instruments to background level, slow the tempo, cut the 1/8 and 1/16th notes, get rid of the shuffle groove and blues inflected music and center the congregation of scriptural texts which THEY sing. They don’t need a singer to overshadow them. After all, it’s about THEM singing to God and NOT about your vain, egotistical singer. Tell the lead guitarist to turn it down and save his soloing for the gig at his local bar or coffee shop. This ain’t worship. It’s performance and it does not place God as the primary audience. It is man-centered
I played Bass Guitar for my church for almost 25 years. I always tried to do my best at every rehearsal and practice. I approached every Sunday and Thursday service with so much joy. I miss playing with the old band. But now that there is a new church group, I find myself wishing they would focus on worship and not the production of worship.
I use to be a main guitar player in a church! I use to be part of a great team! we worked together very well and it was like family! to put it short! we kept being bugged by various people! which lead to everyone leaving until I was last man standing with a new team that were not that good but had arrogance :) it got to a point where song lists were changed last minute without me being told?? it was clear they didn't want me there so I stepped down because it turned into something else! people from the top! supported them? people started acting like pop stars on stage? bringing in extra lights! turning it into a show! the musical skills just went down!! I am a good guitar player! I felt like I was surrounded with beginners who learnt their first 3 chords and felt they were the next Prince! it just felt wrong on several levels! and I left the church all together as the preaching became too dodgy :) egos really do rub on people and end up destroying! especially if they are IN with those who run a church! and popularity becomes more important than God
@@TerenceFisher1I have fond memory’s of being with a team for several years :) you always had a sense of everyone being supportive, watching each others backs, making sure everyone was ok. but over time, things will change with new people coming in and old ones going, the old song leader left the church, that’s when I started getting unhappy, lasted one more year :) it just became something else, individuals feeling they were more important. I was ok with walking away, did it quietly with no arguments :)
This is so true. This is exactly the position I found my self involved in with the church. There is very little to No understanding of music etiquette during these current times in the church. Sometimes you just have to step away and always trust in the spirit to find your way to be in the shelter of the lord. I love and enjoy knowing my instrument and using it for the lord’s Glory in praise and worship.
I use to get digs during the pre-prayer service! unbelievable!! I had some musicians who had attitude towards me! and they would say 'Lord, its not about being good at the guitar! learning all the music! being able to play guitar solos! and always turning up for everything etc, its all about you lord! and my focus is you lord etc, we ar not here to perform' I have always believed in being ready! effort and hard work! but these people who said these prayers! would turn up late! not know the tunes! try and cut corners! totally unprepared! but happy to go jumping around in the spot light :) that was the time I knew I had to go! the team i use to be with had moved on and I was the last one with a new generation who I guess felt it was THEIR time?? I tried to help them, guide them! give them tips but they didn't want to know! but the prayer digs really bothered me, if you are not a team moving as one, it's not good. I use to always say play your best for God! and not worry about pleasing people!! or jealously :) behind closed doors I am still the same! I play the way I play! its not bad that I know more than 4 chords :) @@AceyNoble
Good word. I’ve played for 55 years, most of it in bars, clubs, juke joints and parties. Now I’ve been playing notes for The Kingdom for several years. And in a Praise and Worship band. I play to please My Lord. The rest takes care of itself. Egos and attitude are not pleasing to God. The Enemy works every where.
I'm a life-long musician. Church is a place for worshipping the Lord, giving thanks to God and learning of his ways. It is also a place of healing (at least for full gospel churches as opposed to those who deny the entire gospel and "the power thereof"), and a place for ONLY the things of God. It is no place for egos, for jealousy, for competition, or rock concert-style "rock shows" with fog machines and the like. Nothing wrong with setting a mood but the things I see in today's "Alt Rock-style "Praise and Worship" concerts is getting away from the true reason for a real church and real, full-gospel worship, period! God's Holy Spirit is fully capable of "setting any mood needed"! It is the place to worship, listen to God's voice, prayer, and most of all, honor to Jesus Christ... the only way to God the Father, and the ONLY way of salvation. If the Holy Spirit was truly allowed in a church and allowed to have his way with the souls of the congregation, then even if those human feelings surfaced the people would immediately deny those, realize how petty those fleshly feelings are, and instead give themselves completely over to God's Holy Spirit and his urging. 13 Let no man say when he is tempted that he is tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither does he tempt any man: 14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lusts, and then enticed. 15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. 16 Do not err, my beloved brethren. -- John 1:13-16
I'm a drummer/singer in a praise band, and we do not have the problems you list. We rehearse on Wednesday and play every Sunday. We get together once a month to choose music for the next month. We don't get paid, but we're professional musicians. We're having a great time!!
Thank God for you and your team for such a beautiful testimony. However let us not negate or deny the fact that what he has said here is true in many places. Blessings 🙏
The definition of pro, is to be paid for your skills. You're not pros, you're just a band playing a free show every week. There's nothing wrong with that, but you're not pro's.
@jimroscovius I don't know. If a church, or any institution, can get you to play for them for free, you are not a pro. If you get paid playing elsewhere, then you're a pro. But "a pro" can be anything from beginner to virtuoso.
My number one takeaway from this video - there is no mention of Christian spirituality. The very first thing you should have mentioned is to make sure your heart is right with God and your motives are pure before you even get up there to help lead worship. Is your faith strong? Are you in the word regularly? How is your prayer life and your walk with Jesus? Are you approaching worship with humility or ego? All of these things MUST come first. Otherwise, you are just a playing a role instead of worshiping. Secondly, if someone walks up onto that stage with jealousy or a bad attitude in their heart, they need to be walked right back off that stage... I don't know about your church, but many churches need to get away from the "concert worship" and get back to worship that is less performance and more participatory for everyone. The congregational singing should be just as or almost as loud as the worship team.
Our church is small, and the band are volunteers. The worship pastor went out of town, and asked me to sit in for him. Rather than try and do what I see musically ANYWHERE or EVERYWHERE, I did something very different. Depending on your church, you probably have a music program of Chris Tomlin's greatest hits, or Charles Wesley's Greatest Hits....... Instead of doing what was expected, I played country gospel songs. It worked out well because it was so different. I actually got away from a more "industrial" church music program about 10 years ago. I'd rather be a volunteer with FREEDOM.
It seems many church musicians aspire to be professionals. Their disdain for the “minor leagues” is evident by their behavior and how seriously they take worship or the gospel. It’s a gig until you can get your big break. In Big Evangelical we believe the quality of the worship is based on the quality of the musicians and their performance or ability to “usher us in to his presence.” Some of the most disingenuous people play every Sunday for worship and they don’t care about what they’re doing. It’s about THEM and THEIR street cred.
I don't have the problem of competitiveness as a church pianist, because we've got a pretty small church. However, a few years ago I was on an online piano site that had lessons and a Facebook community. I learned a lot and made friends, and I liked the musician I became, but I didn't like the person I became. There was a lot of favoritism there, and I constantly felt like I was competing with other people for likes and attention. I wound up leaving, partly because of this and partly to do more 1-on-1 study.
It seems like these type of Musicians needs to be Save Thats the problem, they are not walking in the Spirit, they are operating in the Flesh. Fruit of the Spirit, Love, Peace, Patients, kindness, gentleness, long suffering etc. This is a Heart problem.
My church doesn’t pay. I don’t ask for payment I love helping. But yes i believe churches should pay their musicians and not only the musicians but also anyone who serves full time in a church.
@@vicmanm010 Small church means small staff, less tithing, less resources, and less likely you’ll get paid. So I wouldn’t expect pay unless you’re at a large church. It’s better to just view it as a way to serve, but you also must have boundaries as to how much time you’re willing to put into it. The church can’t expect full time work for part time pay or volunteers.
I don't get paid. I belong to a small group of Belarusian Catholics in Łódź, Poland that can't afford a professional musician. So my limited guitar knowledge and skills have become useful. And that's wonderful.
I have dealt with this from other guitar players in the music industry altogether. I never have been able to understand it. You would think there would be some sort of kinship not resentment.
I've been playing guitar for almost 60 years in both Church and secular bands, all across the USA and even a bit in Europe. Of course, egos among musicians is an issue, just the same as most other human endeavors. But to say that this problem is primarily with the Church is (IMHO) a bit of a shock. Whereas in the secular world there are few restraints on aberrant behavior, the Church demands Christ-like behavior, especially from those in a highly visible position such as musicians. Perhaps you've had some bad experiences to taint your perspective, but my experiences across so many churches and places (due to military travel) has been very positive, unlike so many experiences in the secular world. In my advanced years now, there's no way I'll ever deal with playing "out" ever again.
Much respect to your Teaching, But It is hard for me to imagine any Musician doing this. But, Then again I grew up in the 60's 70's, and 80's . This is when you had to have skills to be play any type of music. Not patting my back, But I found a lost tape recorder in the back on my amp. On it was the Band Leader talking about my Guitar playing. It really made me feel good inside. Anyway, I can imagine me judging my playin by what I see on Social Media. I was teaching a Lady today and the first thing I taught her is "Don't Compare herself to other Musicians". Great Video Brah.
It’s everywhere my friend. In settings like open mike sessions the beauty and creativity that could and should be there is buried under all the negative forces you mention. I’m glad to see you(or anyone) point out how destructive it is. But it isn’t confined to church music. I’ve spent my life (I’m 71) trying to find once again the kind of friends and musicians I played with when I was 1st learning. Folks who were generous and giving of their knowledge, sharing insights into playing and the joy of sharing. I haven’t found that yet. I keep my heart open with difficulty. Finding so many here on RUclips who gladly share has reignited my own love of playing. Going to local open mikes or even to “friends” houses to play it’s just as you describe. They desire to masterbate their own music and are open to nothing else and will openly insult anyone else’s music. It’s a cancer on music itself.
Great stuff! I played bass for over 40 years primarily in the church world but laid it down about 6 years ago because I got so tired of dealing with all the church music program constant;ly in competition and comparing themsleves among other musicians!
This is the most Eloquent, much-needed Pep-Talk I've ever heard on the Subject of Musician's constant self-judgments, insecurities, comparisons, jealousies etc & it goes way beyond the boundaries of a Church. This particular "Musician's Dis-Ease" can really get you down (if you let it) even to the point of just giving up & dropping out of the whole "Musician-Dog-Eat-Musician-Dog" Rat Race altogether. Even if you know you're damned good in your own right, Social Media, You Tube etc with just a few clicks away can show some musician out there who is just "Phenomenal" on their Instrument. However - are they really "Better" than you or are they just more proficient than you are at cluttering up the music with more notes, faster/flashy chops etc ? Remember that Less is More & that Simplicity is where the real Music lives - anything outside of that is "Show-Offy"/"Contesty" etc IMO. Just because those musicians may be more "Flamboyant" etc than you doesn't make you a "lousy" Musician. Think of BB King, Miles Davis etc who focus on playing fewer notes but Blow us all Away. You have said so many helpful, hopeful & insightful things here for all of us musicians to heed - I am Touched. Keep up the good work Lad. This is one video I will be viewing over & over & getting a lot out of, for sure.
Man that's real bro. I always look at better musicians as people to learn from. We should be vibin together and learning from each other. Iron sharpens iron.
As a retired church musician I can relate to many of your points covered. I recognized back in the 90's the lack of new church musicians home grown from local churches and offered Pastors I've known for years support. They denied there was an issue so I took myself to the dial up internet and have been supporting musicians around the world since 1999. Perhaps your message is better suited for this generations ears as my era is still in denial about growing their skills. New subscriber.
As an actual musician, my take on church musicians is a large large percentage of them get in the church scene is to get a chunk of the collection plate
I appreciate your video. I’m also glad that I read a few comments before commenting. The first things I noticed was about the lack of Jesus or God in it… but I also understand what you are doing here and I appreciate that. As a former touring professional out of Nashville, Memphis and Los Angeles who also worked with a number of worship teams… I can’t imagine a worship team that didn’t understand that God is the focus… in the secular, we had to be entertaining and “the focus”. While performing at churches, it was a different paradigm. Be less and focus more on worshiping God. There have been many churches that I only went to once because the production and culture of the church seemed a lot more like spiritual Latte’s rather than spiritual meat. Because of those things I found small groups or Bible study groups to be a better fit for me on the fellowship side of things. Nothing beats personal time reading and digesting the Word. I find that many many times, churches use the same verses and talking points in their sermons… God is to be feared if you can’t love Him. Yet, which church keeps it real? Money can corrupt anything.
Its interesting, being in that environment, one feels less inclined to crucify their flesh, because they've "figured it out". Hence, he should be treated like the babe in Christ that he is. Great video!
Man, im not a musician by trade. I just volunteer in the worship team when i can on weekends. I follow many proffesional musicians on social media and have nothing but admiration for all of them. I feel I've rarely had these issues within the realm of music. I just try to learn and be inspired by the best. With that said your words and advice not only apply in the music industry. I feel these concepts are very applicable in every day life. Ive been guilty of playing the comparison game and its the worst feeling ever. I do agree that social media plays a big role in making people feel jealous and/or bad about themselves. We all have to strive for better and be proud of our personal accomplishments.
I’m so blessed to be in the most amazing church! And the worship team is exceptional. Each member is humble and respectful even though we are formed of various musicians and singers of different levels, backgrounds and ages! God is amazing and he makes himself known when we gather to worship Him in spirit and truth !
I feel that it's a shame that a lot of people will skip this because it's specifically about church music. But the ideas you're discussing apply to every musician's journey. It's just great advice for everybody, because comparison and self-critical thoughts can happen in any musical forum. I'm glad I listened to it! Thank you!
For me, the most interesting part about this is that it’s all true about and for “secular” players too. Thanks for a succinct and powerful presentation.
Brotha’, I’m glad you’re making these video’s and having these necessary discussions. I stopped playing in church years ago. I miss playing and writing song’s but I don’t miss all the other nonsense that comes with it. The arrogance of “ministry” is such a turn-off. I’ve played with some real maniac’s.
I thank God for my local, Bible-believing Church. I play guitar & sing 2-3 times per month during Sunday evening services. I’m not professional & have no desire to be…..what I do have is a willingness to learn from other Church musicians & to focus on finding ways to improve. It’s all for the glory of my Lord Jesus 🙌
Over here in The Church of Christ, we can honestly say we never have the problem, but thank you for providing such a helpful video for those who do struggle with these issues. Well done!
Church music INDUSTRY! That is the problem!
Yep I caught that one also! Ministry not industry!!
Lol CHURCH is industry.
church music has been an industry since before the 17th century
"Church" musicians main concerns, popularity, money, recognition, etcetera, this flies in the face of the spirit of the gospel, as well as the use of spiritual gifts
@@corybritton1966 God is such a terrible money manager. Dude’s always asking for more! Like get a job Bro.
The church has been promoting talent over character for a long time, not just in worship. Mostly because it’s about the “performance” now. Not the lifestyle
It's a shame, but I would have to agree with this. Talent over character is even a thing with church preachers...
The churchgoers make these decisions, think about it.
both are important. I mean lifestyle and perfomance. What is not: envy, jealousy and othe counterproductive mindstates
Amen!!!
I’ve been a worshipping drummer since 2006. I was self conscious in the beginning, but realized that my focus needed to be on worshipping The Lord. I’ve had the opportunity to share drum duties with players that had way better chops and music education than me. All I’ve tried to do is to learn from them and not make comparisons. They’re better than me, so what? Where’s my heart? On multiple occasions after a church service, I’d tell my drumming counterpart, “Hey, make sure to leave a little bit of that anointing on my drums so it’ll rub off on me when it’s my turn to play😉”. We’d both have a chuckle
❤❤❤❤🥁
5:45 - Oh there is a reason these things run rampant in the "church music industry". It's mostly because many churches hire musicians who play christian music instead of having Christians who play music. As a Music Ministry leader, my walk with God comes before my musical skill. We have had many instances of people offering their services to play at our church and we said no every time. All of our singers and musicians come from our congregation so we know what they believe in and where they stand with God. Singing and playing with my team and those from our sister churches is a wonderful experience because we all put God first. Pretty simple concept.
I think the most dangerous thing for Church musicians today is to treat Church services/concert as replacement for vanity that they desire from secular music industry so to speak, like they knew they couldn't be a rockstar but in this Christian music platform they could be a CCM Rockstar so to speak
Church services shouldn't be a concert. The musical instrument(s) are just a guide for the actual instrument by which the parishioners worship the Lord - the sacred harp, the human voice.
Yes! The band is only a GUIDE. It’s the Holy Spirit leads people in worship. As church musicians, we need to remember that people worship God in spite of us, not BECAUSE of us. We play music as a guide, but it’s not necessary.
He answered, “I tell you, if these were silent, the very stones would cry out.”
Luke 19:40 (ESV)
If we think of ourselves as the best musician, or singer, no matter how good we think we are, there is always someone who is better.
Wow. All of these sound so foreign to me. All the musicians I surrendered myself in our church are awesome, kind people. I know I am the weakest musician there but I feel the love and encouragement from my team.
Folks see only what they are looking for, saying something nice is not good for views... slamming church folks, hey, thats great for views, comments and likes. Simple as that.
I'll e marking this channel as Do Not Recommend after this one.
It happens my brother. Consider yourself blessed in that manner because I have been through the worst but GOD has been faithful.
Remember, its not everywhere but it does happen.
You are 100% accurate. I dealt with all that jealousy and aggressive, bad behavior from 1988 to 2020. In 2020, I got out of it and we have watched church online since. After having countless people tell me I was very talented, I got tired of coming home brain stressed and having to pull the daggers out of my back (figuratively).
that is why every church musician needs to be rooted in the word of God so we know what humbleness is and a lot more...we are not there just to play but to serve others
Amen
Amen! I've read almost all of the comments and your's is the best and the most correct comment and my prayer is for the author of this video along with some of the people commenting to take a quick look at your comment and maybe they'll understand exactly how it should be...🙏
I'm a drummer and I'm there. Because I love God. You're right when it becomes a production in a contest. On who's better? It definitely gets worse. I love watching drum covers of different songs before I play them because I know I'm not the greatest drummer in the world but I just love doing it. And my aim would always be to give God the glory and not myself. Pride is the biggest killer of all of us. And I don't think there's a musician out there. That doesn't have a Battle with pride. And also what helps is I don't get paid. I do it for the joy of it that helps a lot.
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
That’s true & a lot of black folks mistaken every church “concert” for annointing.
I was a church musician for years and the disrespect and aggressive behavior was everywhere. It’s amazing how supportive the rest of the musical world is compared to church.
Bar musicians are easier to deal than church musicians.
Thats sad you would least expect that in church.Some body tried to get me in to play drums and the leader basicly said NO WAY! Im having no part in that kind of life church yes drama no way.
Ya Rush are, where very respectful of everybody they worked with and there fans as well,Shame on church folk Lol
Lots of people sitting in churches Ona Sunday morning are despicable, that's why so many people won't go to a church building incl me.
That’s why I stopped playing guitar in church .
I had a disheartening experience years ago. My wife's grandmother passed away and she was a member of another church in our town. The family requested since I was a guitar player that I play a song and all the grandchildren sing it for the family. So some of them rarely sang in public I encouraged them to sing and to remember that we are singing this song to comfort the family and to remember that this was one of her favorites songs. So naturally the only one there who was close to being a professional musician and the rest were absolutely amateurs, as a group we did ok and they sang from the heart which helped to bring ministry to family but we by no means sounded like a professional group but we served our purpose. After we all sat down immediately the singer from their church got up and sang the very same song we just sang to show off how much better he could sing it. I felt like he just slapped us across the face by showing off how much better he was as a singer then our whole little choir was. I lost a lot of respect for that church that day. Everyone there noticed what he did and wasn't impressed and actually made the service worse for doing it.
Many years later we had a special event at our church and our choir was practiced up for it and had several songs we were going to sing and we had guest singers come up and play and sing and one little group sang one of the songs that we were planning on singing.. What did we do? We scrubbed that song from our list immediately and did another song. That is what they should have done instead of trying to show off.
Much like competition. Sad. However, keep serving
I wonder why you keep calling "industry "😢
No surprises there, "worship" musicians under the age of 40 are just a bunch of rock star wannabees.
People go to the Doctor / hospital when they are physically sick. Likewise, people go to church when they are spiritually & morally sick. Musicians have a tendency to bring the same ill attitude to the church that they had when they were in the secular world playing music in secular bands
The focus should always be Christ otherwise ego runs things no bueno..
Preach it, brother!!❤
Great news for you brother!! Not all churches and church musicians have been invaded with those kind of spirits. I’m on the Worship team at The Bridge in Warrenton, VA and we’ve never had any of that , even in minuscule amounts. Come worship with us!
Stay humble, love everyone, give great respect, kill any self pride, then, God can use you,and me.
I had an experience recently, I am a pretty new keyboardist for my small church and I am very much green skill level. My praise group when to another church for an event and the keyboardist there was so good it really affected my self esteem. Now I’ve play music for years on other instruments and this guy made me want to quit music because I felt I would never be that good. I soon realized I was foolish and I attempt to have my pastor reach out to this musician so that I could potentially get some lessons and never got a response. I took it upon myself to use resources like RUclips and different things and invest the time to get better. Now on this date I would say I’m still very much learning but I inspire to one day be a very talented keyboardist and can help elevate our praise team to the next level.
My problem with churches is that I am pro amongst amateurs. Not that I am a better player, just prepared, dedicated, respectful and dependible.
As an atheist who used to be a regular Sunday church keyboardist, I've never seen the behavior you described. In fact, its always been a joy to watch other people play on my gear, many of them possessing superior skills. I left the church gigs because I didn't like adapting to the whole belief thing. But hands down, Gospel music is some of best music and fun to play.
Come back to Christ brother no one else can save you but Jesus Christ our Lord and saviour
@@isaacboamah4239 But I'd say to you, join reality and leave the world of superstation.
You need to submit to Christ before its too late. If you don't choose Christ you've automatically chosen Satan
@@cauliflowerpower41 Both Christ and Satan are fictional characters.
No matter how much work you put into your musicianship, there will always be people who think you suck and yes, it is much more important to not take yourself seriously as person and as a musician while striving to improve on what you currently have.
Just my two cents. I appreciate the fact that you came out with this.
That was my philosophy when I WAS a church musician. I'm 40, now. Time came for me to let the younger people have it.
Play for yourself. If people smile when you play and enjoy what you are doing then all is good... Mission accomplished.
@@flash001USA that's the best way to go about it.
@@arielcandoleta5347 Agreed. It's too bad there are so many egos in music and band circles.
@@flash001USA ah, ego, the number one killer of one's aspirations.
Now this was not what I expected from the video title.
This was a blessing. Thank you.
I’m old and experienced enough not to suffer from these issues (mostly. Still human and a sinner) but I can see this happening since it is a real problem in secular music.
When I started playing worship music again, my goal was and continues to be simple - that I use the talent God gave me to reach one person and open their hearts to His glory.
My hands and heart, His melodies…
I appreciate what you shared here. What I grew up with was musicians watching and listening to each other, respecting what each other was doing. The “performance” mindset is destroying many ministries. The focus should be on ministering, engaging the people with the Word of God.
Bro you have take a page out of my life right there. I started early using hardware sequencing and played a lot of the parts in the sequencer but played only the main piano parts or Rhodes parts to the point it sounded very close to the records. My strong points were not Hammond B3 or lush chords but I did try to minister without fear to my own strengths. I ran across the cocky types that I would ask to show me their chords or techniques but they wouldn’t. These were the pre laptop days for sounds and sequences. I just stayed in my lane and developed what God had given me. Great video!!!
As both a worship leader and frontman for a cover band that plays in clubs, I have learned that your actions speak louder than the actions of those against you. Remove yourself from envy as well as arrogance, no matter how good or bad you are. These are basic biblical principals. You be the supportive voice, you be the servant hearted person regardless of those around you. I find these things have benefitted me in both worship and club music scene, as well as in life in general.
You're courageous for talking about these "unwritten rules" in music that no one really talks about but WE ALL KNOW are definitely real issues!!!🙏🙏🙏👍👍👍👏👏👏
Thanks, I appreciate it. I just think these are things that need to be discussed.
Thanks for saying stupid! I like you right away!. We don't have envy problems where I'm at. We are a struggling small small church. Thanks for the warnings. Human sinful nature
Well, I'll differ with you on a few points. Comparison isn't the problem. Lack of musical leadership is THE problem. I gave up playing in worship teams and probably won't ever again. I got tired of the lack of practice, lack of professionalism and lack of capability and talent. There was no leadership or direction. Every Sunday was stressful and nothing but chaos. Then to top it off, the church leadership makes up "Christianese" excuses for the horrible performances (yes, I shamelessly and without guilt used the P-word here.) "We're not performing..." or, "We're just here to make a joyful noise..." or, "It's not about us..." All of these bogus, pious sounding phrases are lame excuses for lack of work ethic, lack of effort and lack of skill.
I do have my own outreach band and none of us are "professional" musicians, in that we don't get paid to play. We play at the local Gospel Mission and other church events. We act professional. We practice. We show up. We are punctual. We have our own professional PA system. And, the best part is that we LOVE what we do - the music, the ministry and each other. We have a common goal and none of us places our self above the others. I am the band leader but I see myself as more of a traffic cop - the guy that focuses our efforts and keeps the group on track. I am not a dictator. I don't even pick the music most of the time. I keep us on time, run the practices and have the final say on arrangements when a disagreement (rare) breaks out.
There is nothing wrong with the music ministry couldn't be solved by some education on the part of the leadership, and some common sense.
/rant.
If you got away from playing churches and religious crap events and write some non religious songs, you can get somewhere. All you are is a side show with the religious crowd while they lie about every word in the Bible. Play some bars and the audience is actually there to see you. It’s a much more fulfilling experience than playing for a cult.
@@kbar3612 LOL! Playing bars to drunks: no thanks. You obviously didn't read what I said.
@ Man I totally get what you say and agree. I spent 10 years on worship team with my church and dealt with this all the time. The attitude was as bad or worse than playing secular music. Fortunately my bass playing skills and experience spoke itself but I was about worshiping and encouraging other players and I enjoy it when others shine before the Lord. It’s a heart issue for sure and I no longer wanted to be a part of it.
Man I hear you on some of the disorganization stuff for sure. At my former church we did practice on Tues nights, then sometimes things would change or different ideas were sprung on us at Sunday morning rehearsals.
The explanation would be something like "We're never going to miss an opportunity to make the experience better. " (They were big on the word "experience, " as in "worship experience")
I said well it's not going to come across as better if the band messes up, or some of these younger players can't adapt to the disorganization. But they also became more about style over substance in some other significant ways, hence it being my FORMER church.
@@Mark-db1ok I once had a worship leader tell me that he did not rehearse his worship band because not rehearsing kept them humble. That was my last stint on a worship team. I'd had enough by then.
Sadly, ineptitude has replaced humility. I just can't get into the irony of sucking at the job just so I can be called humble or avoid the "performance" label.
Beautifully said. Glory to God!
You speaking the truth bro....I play both church & secular. gigs.......sad to say the worst musicians & the ones i've had a hard time with are actual church musicians...There behaviour is worst than the secular ones i've worked with & still a joy to work with.....Its really sad, as it should really be the other way around....sigh!
Same here. I've done both. The church musicians are often times the worst of the two.
Brother, I needed to hear your overall message here: Don't live in comparison-mentality. Otherwise, envy will be a fundamental stumbling block. IMO, Envy is an often-overlooked sin which is incredibly corrosive, thieving, divisive, destructive. Life IS unfair. For everyone. Artists and Non-Artists alike. Just and unjust. At a deeper level it is a matter of Faith. It's the Salieri Syndrome. Are we going to live our lives out embittered, plotting our fellow Christian's demise, throwing our hands up at God in disgust for giving "them" more notoriety, sales, fame, than our so-called "sincere" attempts to Honor Him? It's a real issue in life in general for all of us. ****Do we actually trust God? The fruit will bear us out. If we make the slightest comment of envy, of digging at a brother or sister, of talking behind their back, then that clearly displays our pride, lack of faith, perhaps resentment against God. On the flipside: How cool would it be to be FOR each other!? The Church would be transformed.
P.S. - Actually, for the Church to transform and live up to greater power, unity, and love, she would need to thoroughly repent of any and all hypocrisies. Everyone, you, me, everyone, must vigilantly and diligently be consistent, not a hypocrite. That takes the discipline of being boldly honest with ourselves about any BS that we are hiding from while pointing something out in another's eye. Let us ALL guard against hypocrisy!
Great advice for all musicians, not just church musicians. Thanks brother.
Most musicians don't act like this. There's something about the system of church music that is causing this.
#truth
@@NelsonBlakeIIagain why are you defending non church musicians? Like bro its okay to admit that they're not perfect either. You clearly haven't met or at least read things about secular musicians either, it's not always as perfect as you make it, and this is coming from a secular musician
I thought this video was going a different direction at first, but I understand where it’s going now.
As a church musician, I don’t do this. I’ve never been one to compare myself to others. I always celebrate others. It’s great for me most of the time but when I was in school it translated to a lack of being competitive. This lack prevented me from landing roles and solos.
This is a great reminder that as church musicians we should be giving all the glory to God! Without Him, we wouldn’t have been blessed with the skills, gifts, and talents to make a joyful noise. If I can reduce myself and just have God fill the space, that’s all I want as a musician.
I follow a lot of musicians, but I don't get jealouis, in fact, I'm just genuinely impressed. I play keyboard, try to play guitar. Even though I taken piano and guitar lessons, most of what I do with my synths is design sounds and use them when compsoing in Ableton. I am good at designing sound, so that is what I help other musicians with, or give suggestions for. I doin't try to help them do things I know they are better at. But, also, I know I don't practice enough, and I only blame myself for that. I also don't envy people that practice more than I am. I don't even feel guilty for not practicing enough, Ithere's other things I rather spend time doing. I'm not a pro musician, I have a home studio, but it's for my entertainment for the most part. Just a hobby. BTW, I'm retired, so this attidute of mine fits. If you need a job, then practice, practice, practice. There was a time when I spent most of my time just practicing. But when the era of the DAW started, I started to focus on the part of music I enjoyed the most, composition, without needing a band to fully realize my ideas.
You sound a lot like me.
I am a drummer in a very small church venue. I agree with you. Your worship music should reflect your heart for Jesus, not your absolute professional music ability.
74 and retired, sorta, don't practice and bring what God provides to every service.
I'm a guitar player, as well, with only mediocre ability.
God only wants your best.
You are a rare breed! This is what I focused on from day 1. Sometimes ppl will try to make you feel some type of way because you choose not to focus on the whose who. Do you and your strengths because what you do is needed and your own lane. God bless you!!!!
Life is too short to bring another musician down just because they are not the best. Instead of comparing, encouage each other and be a positive influence on other musicians despite the level..WeAllNeedJesus!!!! TIME IS WINDING UP AND JESUS IS NOT GOING TO COMPARE MUSICIANS..ALL WHO BELIEVE, REPENT, AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS WILL BE IN HEAVEN REJOICING AND PRAISING GOD ON THE THRONE!!! NO COMPARISON NECESSARY!!!
Thank you for posting this. I feel it completely. I got my start playing both in church and in jazz bands. It's tough because, in both cases, the bar is high and you have to find ways to play with good players (often who aren't incredibly respectful or socially graceful) so you can "learn the lesson" to improve. I think there's something to that though, ultimately, I realized that doing anything with people who aren't respectful, who aren't caring, who aren't able to be patient with other skill levels isn't sustainable. Perfection is not the expectation here, though I've often seen players that use the social dynamics of music to really be horrible to others, to be dismissive of other's work, to be invasive about their expectation in a really weird way. For me, the ONLY way I know how to do music and be happy is to be super choosey about who I play with. I play solo a lot with a looper though when I'm leading on the bandstand I choose cats that I love them, love their playing, and trust them. I also push HARD to make sure that I'm articulating my vision directly though as respectful as I know how, also making sure that money made is split evenly. I want to be an example and I take pride that no one can say I owe them money or screwed them over. To me this is THE only way to make music - with people you love because, like cooking, or anything activities done with love make for a better result. I appreciate what you're saying and I hope that musicians find ways to make music with passion, joy, respect both for the music though for the musicians and audience. It has to be there or it isn't worth doing.
I’d like to thank you for making this video! I’ve struggled for sometime now wondering if maybe I was doing something wrong. I never really thought about jealousy among other musicians. You see I have spent so long playing in secular bands that when I finally came to Christ, all I wanted to do was use my talent for him. I had just assumed everyone else was the same. But not long ago, someone had started a rumor in the church that I wanted to take everything over. They also said I wanted to cut people out and none of that was the truth. I never said anything like that or plan to do anything like that. I later found out who it was that started the rumor and it turns out that individual wanted to get rid of me for some reason. I got three minutes into this video and found myself blessed by what you were saying. I truly believe God had you make this video six months ago for me. Thank you for what you do. Be blessed and jam on brother!
I had the same thought as you when I came to Christ - everyone in the church was a new creation and now living in and speaking truth and God's love. Nothing could have been further from the truth. Too many churchians (worldly people who "worship with their lips but their hearts are far from Me." The gossip, lies, and manipulators were everywhere. It's so bad in the Va Bch area that I no longer attend church. Churches here are cloned it seems, loud music, preachers who speak yet never mention God or if they do, there's no deep insight, just low hanging fruit. The people walk in and right back out. They don't know one another deeply. What you experienced is known as gaslighting. It's a mark of Satan, the first to fall to 'self', thus becoming the father of narcissists/leftists. Read John 8:44, Ecc 10:2, Is 5:20, and Ro 1:22. They paint a single picture and give great understanding to their character and worldview.
This doesn’t just apply to church musicians. As I’m listening to these wise words, I feel like we’re speaking one on one! Amen to all that brother! God has spoken!!!
I really like and agree with what was said. I’m a keyboardist in a group, and for my church, and I’m grateful to be part of such a ministry. As far as church musicians on social media all I see are people showcasing, showing off, and doing the most. My ability is a gift from God, and I use it for his glory and honor not to show the next guy how dope I am. I love playing the keyboard, and I’m grateful when someone tells me they were blessed, or I did a great job. There’s nothing wrong with playing to the best of your ability and with enthusiasm, but vanity, pride, and arrogance has no place in the house of God.
This issue is not only in the church but in the secular world as well -- better known as 'ego'. Having an unbalanced ego is obvious and word gets around quick, resulting in fewer and fewer gigs. The sad part is -- when you're known as someone with ego issues -- you're 'blackballed' in the community.
Having a mature balanced outlook is important, because it's all about what makes the band / team sound good. There's a flow and a feeling of comradeship. Everyone walks away feeling energized and congratulatory. Being in a band, everyone plays a part for the overall sound. There are no stars.
Another thing: those who have a mature and humble approach are generally 'monster' players. These type have already worked out their personal feelings of inadequacy or superiority, with a settled sense of their prowess, and feel that trying to prove something is not only a waste of time, but creates strife and competition. They are humble because they are realistic about their limitations -- although they may be as good as the best out there. It's all no big deal to them. It's a matter of "Let's jam!" These are what is known as 'the professionals'. When it stops being fun, it's time to pack up. And believe me it shows in the overall sound.
Always remember: there is ALWAYS someone else who can do the job better. Give it your best and be known as a fun person to work with. You get a LOT further that way, and get hired over the one with all the chops -- because you are nice, and deliver the adequate element that makes the band sound better. That's the goal.
BTW I am a former Nashville session player and producer for 35 years. I've worked with the best, and I've found that all the WORKING players have this attitude. Church has to play it careful so as to not offend anyone. Session folk focus on professionalism, maturity, and great chops. Sure would be nice to see the church crowd rise up to the level of real pros.
Have you met other secular musicians from other scenes? They don't act like this at all. Extremely friendly and helpful. The easiest part of visiting a new city is making friends with fellow guitar players.
I agree 100% with your comment. Be friendly, humble, personable, professional, and PREPARED. The gigs will find YOU if you have built an honorable and dependable name and reputation among your network of musicians.
Story I got from an industry monitor mixer I talked to this week at AES. A music industry “star” fired a mixer who was a working monitor mixer because…they smiled too much. The “star” found it weird. So, secular just acts on their feelings. While church teams hold it all in sometimes and just turns into passive aggressive treatment for years.
I have played country and rock music with musicians far more experienced and professional than myself. I have never been met with dismissal like that of worship leaders with degrees, who had never played outside the church.
@@stevespringer122 good point and though I have not reached too far in the CCM genre other than local churches here, I kind of think you're on to something. Lot of passive aggressive out there - they may not even know about it. Maybe it's taught in those schools they went to.
Terence, thanks for talking about these things. I’ve been a professional musician for most of my life, tho I’ve only played a handful of church gigs. I used to be “one of those” you talk about. What changed my mind was working with musicians who were several levels better than me. Musical idols really. When working with them, there were so generous and encouraging! It made me a better musician simply because I felt like they believed in me. Playing with them made me play better. That experience made me decide from that moment forward that I wanted to be like that for others. Yes the detractors are out there. I’ve learned to kinda say “You do you man good luck!”
I have ran into many musicians who are arrogant and disrespectful to God and others around them. One time, my pastor was preaching at another church and band always accompanies. Well, due to unforseen complications our piano player was held up and it was just me (Drummer) and singers. I was asked to come up and sit in from the pulpit, so the drummer was cool but the organ player wasn't. Talk about cold shoulder, no communication with me at all for hits or anything. By the grace of God everything went well, but my wife told me later the looks, the talking to each other about me etc was crazy. (She is a singer and was across the stage able to see everything.) But this is one of several stories that I've seen throughout the years.
I am part of a band called new wine. And some of the stuff that happened effected some of us to a point some of us left for our own reason if you get what I mean. I learned to respect everyone. Rather If they play with the top dogs of the same band or with others in the same band but different locations.
Your ‘apostle’? Lol…you do know that the word apostle referrers to one who WALKED WITH JESUS, right?
@@Dan_the_Great_ yes, I agree. I treat everyone with respect...
I watched this thinking Terence was going to talk about Churches all using backing tracks and trying to sound like Hillsong or Planet Shakers or Bethel and I was surprised that he spoke on a more personal level which I really appreciated. Us creative ministry types always need to check our egos and motivations. Then I realised the error of "comparison" is also a weakness of Pastors... which is why their churches use backing tracks and try to sound like Hillsong or Planet Shakers or Bethel. I'm saying this as a Church Musician (guitar/piano/bass), Worship Leader & front of house mix veteran for nearly 40 years now. Don't do much anymore but still help out front of house sound occasionally with some advice. Good video, Terence. Thank you for posting.
It’s crazy because I’m in the heavy metal scene and I’ve never experienced that level of jealousy or disrespect since ‘98. If anything, the level of camaraderie is crazy. Metal guitar players KNOW they can walk up to each other and talk gear/technique with no drama.
I agree. Started in punk bands in the '70s , still playing and this guy is talking about some alien world.
I've played jazz/r&b scene, alternative scene, cover band scene, and even the gospel scene (still playing for churches and quartet groups). And it's crazy, cause, till this day, I still say out of all of the genres, I would rather still be playing alternative. The atmosphere was way better, and just as you said, you could walk up to a musician from another band and hold a whole conversation with no issues what so ever. I've gotten more love and respect from the alternative world than I ever have from the gospel musician world, and I was raised in the gospel music world.
As a professional touring musician who has worked with approximately 18 well-known recording artists, I can tell you, there is zero originality in contemporary Christian music. In the 3 to 4 churches that I’ve played they wanted it to sound exactly like the record, with no feel or originality and to make the song the worship teams own. As a guitarist, can any Christian guitarist write a part other than U2’s The Edge recycled parts but in different keys?? Nashville cranks out this stuff like pork sausage, I guess I shouldn’t expect much 😢😂
Respect every musician regardless of skill or level. Learning never stops
Once you stop learning you fail in life! 👍
Facts
AMEN! You can learn something from anyone.
We got rid of most of our instrumentalists except for keys and drums and just use tracks for the rest. The focus is 100% on worshipping together and praying together with the worship team and it has been so much better ever since. No one missed the band drama at all.
as an atheist, I still found value in this video, thank you. also, your voice is so smooth, you should do audio books
God doesn't use our pride, He rejects it, and any prideful person.
Sound advice and information Terence, well done! Have a fantastic week my friend!🎷🎷
This is real talk brother. People need to hear this. GOD BLESS YOU
Thanks, I appreciate it!!
Been singing and playing guitar and bass at my home church and various other churches for 25 years. I’ve never experienced any of this. The worst experience I’ve had was trying to mesh musically with a new music leader that was much “calmer” then any of us were used to. We basically had to relearn songs we had been playing together for years. There were no ego problems, we just wanted him to “step on the gas” occasionally.
I played in basement band , rock n roll, many years ago and we were small with occasional gig playing before a decent crowd and what I noticed after awhile was that the lead guys were always more interested in impressing the one or two other musicians in the crowd than putting on a good show for the whole of the people.
Being a lifelong musician, I was encouraged by some family members to play in church. I figured I would meet up with other musicians who were there to praise God and would check their egos at the door.
Unfortunately, the musicians I encountered were far worse ego wise than any musicians I ever encountered in any of the hundreds of rock clubs I played at over the years.
A bunch of stuck up egomaniacs in a tight click is what I discovered. I have been a musician for 55 years, and these novices should be more concerned with sharing their gift and raising their voices to God, then trying to show off their talent. Or in this case, lack there of. Don’t think for a moment that just because they’re playing in church that they are religious or enlightened individuals.
Sorry, but that was my experience.
What I have found over my years is that a lot of people ( not all ) when they get some ' special ' training or discover they have some kind of talent start to think that they are some kind of special human being.
Sometimes their heads get so big they have trouble going through doors ( if you know what I mean )
Musicians usually the worst.
@@michaelszczys8316 I don’t know why that happens, but you’re correct. There’s nothing more special about a musician than there is any other professional, regardless of the field they’re in. My mistake was in thinking that these people were above that sort of thing, because after all, they’re playing in church. But they’re basically musicians playing in church and sinning simultaneously. You know what religion says about ego. And about treating everyone equally, and not passing judgment on others. These people were on that same ego trip, only they were hiding it (or trying to) behind the guise of religion and playing in a church. Naturally, I’m not speaking for ALL church musicians, just this particular group of people. If you can’t check your ego at the door for God, then, who the heck can you check it for?
Bruh thank you. This video was for I'm sure of it. I'll be celebrating my own progress on my jam sessions and accept the acknowledgment of that progress. Thanks again bruh!👊🏾✊🏾👊🏾✊🏾
thank you for speaking on this. I've had to deal with this for a very long time. another issue that hurts and can discourage musicians is when you are compared to others and then dismissed. Meaning, when certain musicians are around, people that you would normally cover don't want you to play for them. and I've also experienced that issue you spoke about. and because of the musicians being a certain way, i actually had to teach myself. that's a very lonely road. But God!
I'm 65 and have done worship since the 70's. It's been like you say for a while, but one of the most fun and humble and sharing musicians I was lucky enough to play with was Kim Clement. Awesome guy.
As a worship leader I am constantly aware that our focus primarily is to give glory to God. We don't have those types of issues when people are focused on worship. We also are a small church right now and the worship team/praise band is all volunteer. But our focused dedication to praising god enables us to use the gifts God has given us to his glory. Some members are further along in their musical development but there is a place for everyone.
same with our church, we volunteer, we make mistakes but we do it to the glory of God. I think this video applies to super churches with congregations of 1000's
@jwatchorn Same here. The answer is to focus on worship. Like the song, "The Heart of Worship", talks about.
I love your information! It's spot on. I'm a bass player of over 40 years. I have performed in very few bands. Most bands I've been last years. For the past 10 years I've played with the same 3 people. I'm also a band leader. Booking, setting rehearsal times if needed, set list, money handling and fielding problems. There is more but, not going into it.
When a rehearsal doesn't go right I'm always the person to stop a song and point out what just isn't right. If left unmentioned the other 3 members would just continue down the wrong path. No one pointing out an issue. The other 3 personnel are passive and never point out a problem. I have no idea why? They have every right to, they are all good musicians, they know when something is defunct.
But, they just don't. When I do It, it makes me out to be the eternal bad guy and I hate it. I've told them time n time again to speak up if something is amiss. But, to no avail.
I'm thinking it's because I'm BL and they believe they are stepping on my toes. They have repeatedly been told the opposite. Part of the problem arises because the drummer tries to learn music off his phone. That just doesn't work, and frustrates me big time! He fails to practice. I've brought it up but no change. I've invited hime my studio to learn music, no show, ever. He misses (we) miss so much because of this. I have a hard time because of it at times.
We are a good band. Busy but, my personal internal unannounced struggles / frustration with this are building. But, I deal with it. The afore mentioned concerns are tough. Sorry about the rant!
I'm a church musician, so I'm watching this video. :)
Oh my goodness. Comparison. Envy. I'm a target, not a participant; the thing is, I never saw it coming when I started bringing my guitar to church in 1983.
The stories I could tell. And I love to tell stories, but I don't name names.... I've seen every situation you mention in this video, but I've also seen some awesome times in the Holy Ghost.
Some of the most incredible times I've had have come from playing with musicians who (I believe) were better than I am.
Your most quotable line in this video for me was, "No musician ever has become successful by conforming to other people's expectations of them."
Great video.
I don't play in a church band but I really like the thought process and sentiment here and I think the message can be applied to anyone in the arts. I think once we take our ego out of it and like you said, celebrate our own journey and success then we are doing what the art was intended to do and that is to bring people together. Great message, and loved the vid!👍❤️
Hey Terence, good stuff. I play in three churches, 2 German and one middle eastern. I also used to do Praise Evenings for immigrants too. It took me a long time to accept what you just said in a few minutes: There are people who are better than me (and people who are not), and that's OK. I guess where it hit me was the realization, yeah so-and-so might be better than me, but here I am playing and he's not, so... At one of my churches there is a well-known professional player of my same instrument, who could beat me down if he wanted to, but he's a gentleman and when I play a service he tells everybody I was good. Then after the service he plays traditional tunes in the social room and everybody loves it. It's all good.
Love your approach and presentation. It is awesome that you not only take what you play...but the heart with how you play it into consideration.
Thanks Mr. Fisher. We all need to learn humility and patience, especially in the church environment. I don't know what it is like to be paid as a church musician, but always bring my best (e.guitar) and I've had plenty of frustration with other's lack of musicianship. I try hard to have a smile when I'm concentrating on difficult passages, and sometimes I actually receive un-solicited positive responses from the congregants in the form of a compliment off stage. It comes down to why I am up there. It's not about me, but I always bring my best.🙂
I had this problem at the church I used to play at. I had this guy who played piano and was the main piano player there, and he was the sound man as well. So when I would play the piano he would lower my volume so nobody could hear me playing for the group I was playing for. It was so embarrassing and discouraging. Thank God I'm not there anymore!
They used to turn my monitor off when I used to play guitar in church . I couldn’t hear a thing .
What can one do about that?
@@solideomusical if they are turning you down , there is a reason ...
@@peteytwofinger obviously there is a reason- do you have an assumption as to what it might be?
Well said, man. This goes well beyond church music, as you know. This refreshed me. Glad to be enjoying my instrument
The reason for all of this trouble lies with the corruption of worship within the modern church. Everyone seems to have forgotten that true worship is not performance based music. The purpose of worship music is to serve as a background to lead the congregation into group praise.
Modern “worship music” is not Christ centered and it does not place God at the center. It is all about ego.
The church service is NO PLACE for a concert where the focus is on the musicians.
If you had only considered the role of worship involves the central place of the pulpit being God Himself and our songs to be to exalt Him and not elevate our emotions and the feelings we get, we would have never allowed this abominable practice of modern crap music.
I say this as a saxophonist who loves music.
What is happening in churches musically is not worship. It is the intrusion into the house of God of our modern culture and mediocrity of “music”.
Our worship should contain biblical text and those things which abase man and extol God.
The Lord has given us a song book of 150 songs to worship Him with (Psalms). Instead these are not good enough for us! We rather insist on writing banal and inane childish lyrics which make ourselves “feel” good.
This is not worship. This is man-centered entertainment. It does not involve biblical thinking with deep words which come from Scripture.
We write songs with pronouns, “I, Me, My” and tell others to look at me and how I worship and love God. No, you don’t. That’s why you’re here to confess and receive forgiveness.
We tell each other that we lift our hearts and hands to Jesus. No you don’t. You come here with unclean hearts and hands and you are a poor beggar in need of grace. Your entire life is one of self praise and self worship.
You want to hear what worship sounds like? Listen to Bach and see in one instant the difference. It’s not about you and your feelings and emotion.
This which you speak of is merely crappy pop music which is the fast food equivalent of “worship”. It has no substance and lack nutrition. It is new and modern and patterned after the world. It will only give you gas and leave you bloated with heart disease and diabetes
The modern church has left their true love for self-feeding, emotional filling, and a cheap imitation of a crappy worldly concert which they can “feel” good about.
Remember, worship is not about you. It’s about what God says pleases Him.
The modern church may be louder and more animated than ever. It may be filled with cool drums and synthesizers and singers with cool haircuts and flashy designer clothes and fake wigs and everything which screams, “Look at me and how great of a player or singer I am!”
You might think you can lead someone to Jesus through a minor chord, but brother, this IS NOT true worship. It is the image of Satan and the world infiltrating the house of God.
Repent, return to scripture and to what God has said pleases Him.
Give up your pride and excuses to be at the center of entertainment. Let go of the power you feel to play and write songs to direct someone’s emotions.
The church needs to repent for creating “pastors of worship” and return to the simplicity which places the preaching of the Gospel at the center of the pulpit.
Want to go to a concert? Then go to a concert.
Want to worship God? Do you really?
Then turn down the instruments to background level, slow the tempo, cut the 1/8 and 1/16th notes, get rid of the shuffle groove and blues inflected music and center the congregation of scriptural texts which THEY sing. They don’t need a singer to overshadow them. After all, it’s about THEM singing to God and NOT about your vain, egotistical singer.
Tell the lead guitarist to turn it down and save his soloing for the gig at his local bar or coffee shop.
This ain’t worship. It’s performance and it does not place God as the primary audience. It is man-centered
I played Bass Guitar for my church for almost 25 years. I always tried to do my best at every rehearsal and practice. I approached every Sunday and Thursday service with so much joy. I miss playing with the old band. But now that there is a new church group, I find myself wishing they would focus on worship and not the production of worship.
I use to be a main guitar player in a church! I use to be part of a great team! we worked together very well and it was like family! to put it short! we kept being bugged by various people! which lead to everyone leaving until I was last man standing with a new team that were not that good but had arrogance :) it got to a point where song lists were changed last minute without me being told?? it was clear they didn't want me there so I stepped down because it turned into something else! people from the top! supported them? people started acting like pop stars on stage? bringing in extra lights! turning it into a show! the musical skills just went down!! I am a good guitar player! I felt like I was surrounded with beginners who learnt their first 3 chords and felt they were the next Prince! it just felt wrong on several levels! and I left the church all together as the preaching became too dodgy :) egos really do rub on people and end up destroying! especially if they are IN with those who run a church! and popularity becomes more important than God
Well said man! I know many musicians who have experienced this exact situation, and it's a shame!
@@TerenceFisher1I have fond memory’s of being with a team for several years :) you always had a sense of everyone being supportive, watching each others backs, making sure everyone was ok. but over time, things will change with new people coming in and old ones going, the old song leader left the church, that’s when I started getting unhappy, lasted one more year :) it just became something else, individuals feeling they were more important. I was ok with walking away, did it quietly with no arguments :)
Wow that's very sad
This is so true. This is exactly the position I found my self involved in with the church. There is very little to No understanding of music etiquette during these current times in the church. Sometimes you just have to step away and always trust in the spirit to find your way to be in the shelter of the lord. I love and enjoy knowing my instrument and using it for the lord’s Glory in praise and worship.
I use to get digs during the pre-prayer service! unbelievable!! I had some musicians who had attitude towards me! and they would say 'Lord, its not about being good at the guitar! learning all the music! being able to play guitar solos! and always turning up for everything etc, its all about you lord! and my focus is you lord etc, we ar not here to perform' I have always believed in being ready! effort and hard work! but these people who said these prayers! would turn up late! not know the tunes! try and cut corners! totally unprepared! but happy to go jumping around in the spot light :) that was the time I knew I had to go! the team i use to be with had moved on and I was the last one with a new generation who I guess felt it was THEIR time?? I tried to help them, guide them! give them tips but they didn't want to know! but the prayer digs really bothered me, if you are not a team moving as one, it's not good. I use to always say play your best for God! and not worry about pleasing people!! or jealously :) behind closed doors I am still the same! I play the way I play! its not bad that I know more than 4 chords :)
@@AceyNoble
Paid musicians in church? They have received their reward!
Hallelujah, brother! "Chump don' want no help, chump don't GET da help!"
Cut me some slack , Jack ! 😂
Good word. I’ve played for 55 years, most of it in bars, clubs, juke joints and parties. Now I’ve been playing notes for The Kingdom for several years. And in a Praise and Worship band. I play to please My Lord. The rest takes care of itself. Egos and attitude are not pleasing to God. The Enemy works every where.
That’s crazy. In all my life as a musician I’ve never encountered anything like this. Musicians usually are very cool with each other like athletes
You're one of the lucky ones. Congratulations. Ive experienced everything he described.
I'm a life-long musician. Church is a place for worshipping the Lord, giving thanks to God and learning of his ways. It is also a place of healing (at least for full gospel churches as opposed to those who deny the entire gospel and "the power thereof"), and a place for ONLY the things of God.
It is no place for egos, for jealousy, for competition, or rock concert-style "rock shows" with fog machines and the like. Nothing wrong with setting a mood but the things I see in today's "Alt Rock-style "Praise and Worship" concerts is getting away from the true reason for a real church and real, full-gospel worship, period! God's Holy Spirit is fully capable of "setting any mood needed"! It is the place to worship, listen to God's voice, prayer, and most of all, honor to Jesus Christ... the only way to God the Father, and the ONLY way of salvation.
If the Holy Spirit was truly allowed in a church and allowed to have his way with the souls of the congregation, then even if those human feelings surfaced the people would immediately deny those, realize how petty those fleshly feelings are, and instead give themselves completely over to God's Holy Spirit and his urging.
13 Let no man say when he is tempted that he is tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither does he tempt any man:
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lusts, and then enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
16 Do not err, my beloved brethren. -- John 1:13-16
I'm a drummer/singer in a praise band, and we do not have the problems you list. We rehearse on Wednesday and play every Sunday. We get together once a month to choose music for the next month. We don't get paid, but we're professional musicians. We're having a great time!!
Amen!!! God bless you!
Thank God for you and your team for such a beautiful testimony. However let us not negate or deny the fact that what he has said here is true in many places.
Blessings 🙏
The definition of pro, is to be paid for your skills. You're not pros, you're just a band playing a free show every week. There's nothing wrong with that, but you're not pro's.
@@Trentstone121 Yes, we are. We have all been paid for playing and singing, just not at this time. It's our donation.
@jimroscovius I don't know. If a church, or any institution, can get you to play for them for free, you are not a pro. If you get paid playing elsewhere, then you're a pro. But "a pro" can be anything from beginner to virtuoso.
My number one takeaway from this video - there is no mention of Christian spirituality. The very first thing you should have mentioned is to make sure your heart is right with God and your motives are pure before you even get up there to help lead worship. Is your faith strong? Are you in the word regularly? How is your prayer life and your walk with Jesus? Are you approaching worship with humility or ego? All of these things MUST come first. Otherwise, you are just a playing a role instead of worshiping. Secondly, if someone walks up onto that stage with jealousy or a bad attitude in their heart, they need to be walked right back off that stage... I don't know about your church, but many churches need to get away from the "concert worship" and get back to worship that is less performance and more participatory for everyone. The congregational singing should be just as or almost as loud as the worship team.
Our church is small, and the band are volunteers. The worship pastor went out of town, and asked me to sit in for him. Rather than try and do what I see musically ANYWHERE or EVERYWHERE, I did something very different. Depending on your church, you probably have a music program of Chris Tomlin's greatest hits, or Charles Wesley's Greatest Hits....... Instead of doing what was expected, I played country gospel songs. It worked out well because it was so different. I actually got away from a more "industrial" church music program about 10 years ago. I'd rather be a volunteer with FREEDOM.
Good way to think outside the box!! Well done...
It seems many church musicians aspire to be professionals. Their disdain for the “minor leagues” is evident by their behavior and how seriously they take worship or the gospel. It’s a gig until you can get your big break. In Big Evangelical we believe the quality of the worship is based on the quality of the musicians and their performance or ability to “usher us in to his presence.” Some of the most disingenuous people play every Sunday for worship and they don’t care about what they’re doing. It’s about THEM and THEIR street cred.
I don't have the problem of competitiveness as a church pianist, because we've got a pretty small church. However, a few years ago I was on an online piano site that had lessons and a Facebook community. I learned a lot and made friends, and I liked the musician I became, but I didn't like the person I became. There was a lot of favoritism there, and I constantly felt like I was competing with other people for likes and attention. I wound up leaving, partly because of this and partly to do more 1-on-1 study.
It seems like these type of Musicians needs to be Save Thats the problem, they are not walking in the Spirit, they are operating in the Flesh. Fruit of the Spirit, Love, Peace, Patients, kindness, gentleness, long suffering etc. This is a Heart problem.
Wait y’all get paid? Lol
My church doesn’t pay. I don’t ask for payment I love helping. But yes i believe churches should pay their musicians and not only the musicians but also anyone who serves full time in a church.
@@vicmanm010 Small church means small staff, less tithing, less resources, and less likely you’ll get paid. So I wouldn’t expect pay unless you’re at a large church.
It’s better to just view it as a way to serve, but you also must have boundaries as to how much time you’re willing to put into it. The church can’t expect full time work for part time pay or volunteers.
@@LemonMeIon good point! Thanks!
I don't get paid. I belong to a small group of Belarusian Catholics in Łódź, Poland that can't afford a professional musician. So my limited guitar knowledge and skills have become useful. And that's wonderful.
Churches often take advantage of their musicians for their skillset time and labor. You should demand that you get paid or walk.
I have dealt with this from other guitar players in the music industry altogether. I never have been able to understand it. You would think there would be some sort of kinship not resentment.
Jealousy is what will drive us to be better whatever our careers are. Excellent video!
I've been playing guitar for almost 60 years in both Church and secular bands, all across the USA and even a bit in Europe. Of course, egos among musicians is an issue, just the same as most other human endeavors. But to say that this problem is primarily with the Church is (IMHO) a bit of a shock. Whereas in the secular world there are few restraints on aberrant behavior, the Church demands Christ-like behavior, especially from those in a highly visible position such as musicians. Perhaps you've had some bad experiences to taint your perspective, but my experiences across so many churches and places (due to military travel) has been very positive, unlike so many experiences in the secular world. In my advanced years now, there's no way I'll ever deal with playing "out" ever again.
Much respect to your Teaching, But It is hard for me to imagine any Musician doing this. But, Then again I grew up in the 60's 70's, and 80's . This is when you had to have skills to be play any type of music. Not patting my back, But I found a lost tape recorder in the back on my amp. On it was the Band Leader talking about my Guitar playing. It really made me feel good inside.
Anyway, I can imagine me judging my playin by what I see on Social Media.
I was teaching a Lady today and the first thing I taught her is "Don't Compare herself to other Musicians".
Great Video Brah.
Such great advice. It is so true, we need to see each other as colleagues and collaborators rather than competitors.
It’s everywhere my friend. In settings like open mike sessions the beauty and creativity that could and should be there is buried under all the negative forces you mention. I’m glad to see you(or anyone) point out how destructive it is. But it isn’t confined to church music. I’ve spent my life (I’m 71) trying to find once again the kind of friends and musicians I played with when I was 1st learning. Folks who were generous and giving of their knowledge, sharing insights into playing and the joy of sharing. I haven’t found that yet. I keep my heart open with difficulty. Finding so many here on RUclips who gladly share has reignited my own love of playing. Going to local open mikes or even to “friends” houses to play it’s just as you describe. They desire to masterbate their own music and are open to nothing else and will openly insult anyone else’s music. It’s a cancer on music itself.
Great stuff! I played bass for over 40 years primarily in the church world but laid it down about 6 years ago because I got so tired of dealing with all the church music program constant;ly in competition and comparing themsleves among other musicians!
This is the most Eloquent, much-needed Pep-Talk I've ever heard on the Subject of Musician's constant self-judgments, insecurities, comparisons, jealousies etc & it goes way beyond the boundaries of a Church. This particular "Musician's Dis-Ease" can really get you down (if you let it) even to the point of just giving up & dropping out of the whole "Musician-Dog-Eat-Musician-Dog" Rat Race altogether. Even if you know you're damned good in your own right, Social Media, You Tube etc with just a few clicks away can show some musician out there who is just "Phenomenal" on their Instrument. However - are they really "Better" than you or are they just more proficient than you are at cluttering up the music with more notes, faster/flashy chops etc ? Remember that Less is More & that Simplicity is where the real Music lives - anything outside of that is "Show-Offy"/"Contesty" etc IMO. Just because those musicians may be more "Flamboyant" etc than you doesn't make you a "lousy" Musician. Think of BB King, Miles Davis etc who focus on playing fewer notes but Blow us all Away. You have said so many helpful, hopeful & insightful things here for all of us musicians to heed - I am Touched. Keep up the good work Lad. This is one video I will be viewing over & over & getting a lot out of, for sure.
Man that's real bro. I always look at better musicians as people to learn from. We should be vibin together and learning from each other. Iron sharpens iron.
As a retired church musician I can relate to many of your points covered. I recognized back in the 90's the lack of new church musicians home grown from local churches and offered Pastors I've known for years support. They denied there was an issue so I took myself to the dial up internet and have been supporting musicians around the world since 1999. Perhaps your message is better suited for this generations ears as my era is still in denial about growing their skills. New subscriber.
As an actual musician, my take on church musicians is a large large percentage of them get in the church scene is to get a chunk of the collection plate
I appreciate your video.
I’m also glad that I read a few comments before commenting. The first things I noticed was about the lack of Jesus or God in it… but I also understand what you are doing here and I appreciate that. As a former touring professional out of Nashville, Memphis and Los Angeles who also worked with a number of worship teams… I can’t imagine a worship team that didn’t understand that God is the focus… in the secular, we had to be entertaining and “the focus”. While performing at churches, it was a different paradigm. Be less and focus more on worshiping God. There have been many churches that I only went to once because the production and culture of the church seemed a lot more like spiritual Latte’s rather than spiritual meat. Because of those things I found small groups or Bible study groups to be a better fit for me on the fellowship side of things. Nothing beats personal time reading and digesting the Word. I find that many many times, churches use the same verses and talking points in their sermons…
God is to be feared if you can’t love Him.
Yet, which church keeps it real? Money can corrupt anything.
Thank you brother for your wise words hope people open their eyes and ears have a blessed day!
Its interesting, being in that environment, one feels less inclined to crucify their flesh, because they've "figured it out". Hence, he should be treated like the babe in Christ that he is. Great video!
Man, im not a musician by trade. I just volunteer in the worship team when i can on weekends. I follow many proffesional musicians on social media and have nothing but admiration for all of them. I feel I've rarely had these issues within the realm of music. I just try to learn and be inspired by the best.
With that said your words and advice not only apply in the music industry. I feel these concepts are very applicable in every day life. Ive been guilty of playing the comparison game and its the worst feeling ever. I do agree that social media plays a big role in making people feel jealous and/or bad about themselves. We all have to strive for better and be proud of our personal accomplishments.
I’m so blessed to be in the most amazing church! And the worship team is exceptional. Each member is humble and respectful even though we are formed of various musicians and singers of different levels, backgrounds and ages! God is amazing and he makes himself known when we gather to worship Him in spirit and truth !
I feel that it's a shame that a lot of people will skip this because it's specifically about church music. But the ideas you're discussing apply to every musician's journey. It's just great advice for everybody, because comparison and self-critical thoughts can happen in any musical forum.
I'm glad I listened to it! Thank you!
For me, the most interesting part about this is that it’s all true about and for “secular” players too. Thanks for a succinct and powerful presentation.
Brotha’, I’m glad you’re making these video’s and having these necessary discussions. I stopped playing in church years ago. I miss playing and writing song’s but I don’t miss all the other nonsense that comes with it. The arrogance of “ministry” is such a turn-off. I’ve played with some real maniac’s.
I thank God for my local, Bible-believing Church. I play guitar & sing 2-3 times per month during Sunday evening services. I’m not professional & have no desire to be…..what I do have is a willingness to learn from other Church musicians & to focus on finding ways to improve. It’s all for the glory of my Lord Jesus 🙌
I appreciate your wisdom. Almost everything you said is completely true outside of church musicians
Over here in The Church of Christ, we can honestly say we never have the problem, but thank you for providing such a helpful video for those who do struggle with these issues. Well done!