Pilot Races Another Plane - Instant Regret!
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- Опубликовано: 28 окт 2023
- This pilot tried racing another plane to land and instantly regretted his decision! He blatantly violated multiple regulations and jeopardized safety and there were several items the NTSB completely missed in their investigation.
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Imagine your life being in the hands of such clowns.
The passengers went golfing immediately after the flight.
Expect nothing less in Florida.
Sure, because of course YOU know I assume. Only that the rest 25,500,000 general aviation hours per year (not including airlines) that went just fine. But you just happen to experience this every time, pur soul. Take greyhound.@@Look_What_You_Did
You have more chance of getting hit by lightning strike, does that make you nervous?@@gwag8410
yeh but, yeh but ........ have you seen my wife drive a car ?? !!
The cavalier attitude and actions of this flight crew is absolutely shocking. They both should have had their credentials suspended pending an actual in-depth investigation and then have them both be required to undergo many hours of supervised retraining before being allowed to be unsupervised at the controls of even a Cessna 150!
Naw, we’d be better off if the pilots re-trained as Accountants.
No prosecution or prison? Ok. Maybe? But first they should pay for the damages. It was completely their fault. The plane was probably insured. But such stupidity causes insurance rates to increase.
They almost certainly will have their certificates revoked. Then they'll have to take multiple check rides with the FAA to get their certs back, and the FAA may not even allow that, especially the PIC.
@@TBolt1 Not sure I want them as accountants. Try dog poop picker uppers. Or dog walkers.
@@jesspeinado480 Loss of license would be sufficient, no need for prison. Pay for damages; absolutely.
Can't argue with Hoover on this one: "Do stupid things, win a stupid prize". Perfectly said.
Dumb saying that’s been around for years. It makes me cringe.
I've always heard it as, "play stupid games, win stupid prizes" means the same thing though.@@michaelscott33
@@michaelscott33 Sounds like you have been on the receiving end of that statement a time or two. LOL. Don't get mad...I'm just messin dude.
@@theraptorsnest5891you sound like an easily impressed twit.
@@michaelscott33
The cringe is because the truth hurts.
Hard to get more stupid than breaking the law and recording it on tape.
Unless you're hunter Biden 😂😂😂
@@DebbieOnTheSpot True. These pilots only lacked drugs to be in Hunter’s league.
@@LTVoyager I'm not convinced there wasnt coke on this flight.
@@DebbieOnTheSpot Haha, funny. I know the thousand or so indicted J6 insurrectionists would agree with you. Hindsight is 20/20 as they say 😂
Fun fact, there are many ways they could have done this completely legally.
“And they just took off and left the pilots… which exactly I would have done if I was them….” 🤣🤣🤣
I love these debriefs for these one liners, keep it up!
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Also, a reminder to the private plane passengers trying to challenge their pilots - just because you are rich, does not mean that the laws of physics don't apply to you.
Rich people can often make violations go away. Probably a little different when you bend metal, though.
They weeded out those pilots though didn't they?? Part me is like, hey very little harm happened here, so a good lesson for all.
But also, yeah F anyone with a private jet who doesn't show up on time and just generally shut the Fukkk up ... about everything
@@rotcakaBut you could also argue that one of the perqs of owning a Gulfstream is that you show up to the airport when you want. It's not like the plane has a connection where other passengers are waiting and being delayed.
Idk... It's hard to even get my brain wrapped around having that kind of disposable cash. Back in the late 90's, I worked for a large regional bank who had it's Gulfstream. On one ocassion only, I was part of a team of four who needed to visit New Orleans and Lafayette, LA during the same day, and we were based in Birmingham. We got to take the bank's jet. I learned from the pilot on that day that just the OPERATING cost of the plane averaged $20,000.00 every single time the wheels come off of the ground. And this was over two decades ago.
@@migbham1I'm quite certain you would have to log a flight path with an authority, and that would include scheduled times for things.
Probably not quite do what ya want when ya want.
Yup, ask Kobe Bryant how that works.
"Then the passengers just went to golf"
Lol, the captains that I flew always said that if anything went wrong while you are trying to please the passengers (and breaking laws), they woudn't care about you after it.
"Play stupid games enough, you're going to win stupid prizes."
That is beautiful.
"we know what we are doing / this is NASCAR"
Is an all time quote 😂
Wow! It's like Ricky Bobby got his pilot license. "If you're not first you're last! Woooohoooo!" 😂
New Smyrna Beach Nights: The Ballad of PICky Bobby.
"we are not stopping"
"no we're not"
🤣😂😅 epic!
how could they tell?
That’s the stupid prize
I'm impressed they managed to stick the landing with that overspeed and glide path.
I'm no pilot, but I'd say he stuck it ... in the swamp...
Yeah, the only "good" bad piloting in this story 😆
NTSB needs to hire you, or more professionals like you. Great work.! ✈️
What's always amazing to me about these kinds of accidents is how reckless people like this are with their own careers. Airplanes are insured. No passengers were injured. But you have to know this isn't the kind of thing you want to show up in your work history.
That rich owner will abandon the pilot in a heartbeat, even though the pilot was doing what the owner wanted. The pilot should have told the guy no, but my guess is he was getting paid really good money by this guy. I found a follow up article that the owner had some sketchy stuff going on with his other airplanes (paying for them or something).
My dad had well over 30,000 hours. Has a story of telling a major that it wasn’t safe to fly. The major didn’t want the delay and ordered him to take off. So he flies up and looks at the weather then puts it right back down. “I’m in charge of the aircraft when in the air” …. Major was big mad but base commander sided with dad. Lol
Your dad was not just in charge of the airplane in the air. He's in charge of it from the time the door closes until it opens again after the flight. He was foolish to take it in the air if he knew that it was unsafe to fly. He needed to grow a pair. I would not be telling that story if I were him.
yeah a crosswind in an ultralight (enough to put me at 45* and this runway is beside the new river gorge so I know where it's coming from, I knew the time of day was risky anyways)... it's a great joke and all of the family of flyboys. I enjoyed my hours in the air, but the moment I went deer in headlights (i got down and bent the landing gear), I got out of flying then and there cuz I know there is 0 room for that in this biz. This is a actually a great channel though for someone like me who can't fly, but knows so much about it. I spook easier than most, but if the weather said no, my mouth is saying no. I gotta say, if that really happened, your dad must be old. I did military. A major being a c*** about something he doesn't know about isn't going to get a specialist these days to uncross his arms. It is kinda shocking he took off and came back in I'd say anytime after 83 or 84...IDK I know family share the dirt, but that was a bit umm MUCH to prove a point. Didn't give him any less of an earful afterwards either, but I know the generation 2 above me would tell me to relax, so I am going to go with an age angle on this one. How old is pops?
Was it a helicopter?
You must live a miserable life@@OneTequilaTwoTequila
@@cmdrdyland Because he dosn't do unsafe things against his own better judgement on the basis of "only following orders?"
Thank you for touching on the checklists at the end of the video. I haven’t flown the accident aircraft, but I did fly the citation xls+. The official checklists from Cessna were just as bad as this, for every portion of the flight. The amount of meaningless and insignificant things in the checklists was extreme, and the actually important things were easy to miss. It almost looked like as if the cheklists were written by lawyers instead by engineers and test pilots. Thankfully with my operator the checklists were much better, but it was still night and day compared to how generally smooth and 100% more logical the flows and checklists are on the 737 which I fly now. Talking to other guys, this terrible checklist thing seems to be a pattern in small and midsize jets.
This is inside baseball I'm glad to have stumbled upon. Thanks.
You do remember why Cessna halted light aircraft production for a decade, right?
There’s no way anyone can fly an airplane by the AFM or POH. That’s why you develop company checklists that encompass it but written with flows and items combined or in a more logical manner. Like yeah.. what’s ref speed doing on a landing checklist. That should be descent or approach checklist.
Can we get a update if the pilots got their license taken? They should definitely have some type of repercussions. It’s scary to know that they could be chartering someone else acting the same….
getting involved in an accident doesnt mean you lose your
@@dxb8788 racing an airplane might
@@dxb8788 did anyone say that?
@@dxb8788That was not an accident.
@@dxb8788it’s not an “accident” if it’s “intentional “ 😂
NTSB missed a lot of stuff on this one.
One wonders whether money changed hands
Makes you wonder why ?
is the ntsb qualified to investigate this wreck? I`ve neard a lot of bad things about their credentials. jmo
I wouldn’t trust the NTSB to deliver a pizza.
Probably some inexperienced investigators for sure.
Sounds like these guys got off relatively easy in the report... I wonder if one of them has some closer relationship with the NTSB. This could have easily been much worse.
This is the correct answer.
The owner of the plane is an Atlanta-area mover and shaker, I wonder if he had any pull in it, too.
I flew professionally for over 50 years. You don't do this kind of thing. If you do you will most likely end up in a wreck.
Ground spoiler boards were not deployed in the "accident video" so either the switch wasn't armed, or there was an issue with the squat switches, but since the buckets deployed, I'm gonna say, pilot shenanigans was the root cause. They definitely came in hot, so not sure the spoilers would have made that much of a difference, that said, I'm glad all walked away.
Tbh I think they would’ve landed safely if they had spoilers and applied heavy braking. Spoilers work especially well at high speed, so the two combined would’ve given them the extra meters stopping distance they needed. Oh well
Hope both pilots lose their licenses.
He is lucky this wasn't the next Teterboro accident. He has the same personality traits of the captain in the Teterboro accident.
Terrific ! Even THE NTSB is negligent and MISSED SO MUCH here.
Thank you Hoover for bringing this clown show to our attention. IMO, this has to be one of the most incomplete general aviation NTSB reports I have ever seen. Your critique is very professional and definitely warrants further discussion. This captain will kill someone someday, if he doesn't get his shite together. Love your channel. Cheers! wjm
You'd hope running a million dollar jet off the end of the runway, being lucky enough to walk away unhurt, would make you a little more cautious in the future.
Let's hope so. Cheers!
NTBS report: hahaha, those kids...
@@Dan-yk6sy My fear is that the PIC pins it on equipment failure. He should realize how unsafe the whole approach was, but he gives into the passenger (and I assume owner of the plane) and his get-there-itis. The owner is a mover-anbd-shaker from Newnan GA, and what little I read, he seems like the kind of guy that would push his pilots like this.
Cuz it involve some big bucks brahh nothing to see here
Love how the passengers were like "welp see ya later"
A good question to the NTSB, why do we have to tune in this video to find out more about the accident than reading the NTSB report. It takes more time to do more in depth investigate but the NTSB isn't doing its job. We should demand more from the NTSB.
Something smells fishy about that report. I have to wonder if one of the pilots or the company had a different relationship with the NTSB...
Government = 💩.
@@ryanpenrod1859 I think the NTSB reporting has been shoddy for a long time. The only time we get to read a more detailed report is when there is a big accident involving the airline, and when the national press is shining a bright light on the NTSB. The shoddy reporting is doing a disservice to air safety because we don't get to learn about other remedies that could reduce accident, such as the risky behaviors by the pilots. We never get them from the NTSB reports. The whole point of doing investigation is get the probably cause. Yes it's easy to get factual data but the root cause isn't about pilot error, it's the risky behaviors which led up to the eventual accident.
The context you're missing is that the NTSB has no authority to enforce violations. That's the FAA's job. The NTSB's priority is to recommend changes to the system, they generally don't recommend changes to the individual (which definitely needs to happen here!). Now, I could argue the NTSB still should have commented on this in terms of the company's failure to monitor the pilot's pattern of malfeasance. But the only agency that will decide to take action against the pilots is the FAA, and they can and would use information outside the NTSB investigation
Also since this was a charter operation not commercial and it wasn’t a fatal accident, the NTSB sends the local go team vs the A team and the investigation is much abbreviated compared to a fatal accident or one involving a commercial airline. They are basically there just to document the scene, and report the most likely causes based on the interviews and the evidence in a timely manner. It’s almost a formality for insurance as much as anything in these situations unfortunately but there’s so many GA and charter accidents and incidents all over the country every day, they just don’t have the resources or personnel to handle them all like they do commercial investigations.
Cowboys. Thank you for your analysis of this ridiculous flight.
Some people should never be allowed to FLY!!!!
After watching a few of Hoover’s videos, I think I’m one of those people
As a private pilot, I enjoy your analysis and presentation.
Sounds like the NTSB was being very friendly with these two.
I went through Army flight school for RW and FW in 1980-81. We were taught, it turns out, very very well. I can always figure out the root cause of accidents on that tv show about them because the pilots violated the things I was taught by the Army. Now, I find your channel and you have the same understanding of how to fly safely. I salute you.
My goodness! See that thing screaming down the runway!!! Tire speeds be damned!
Loser is an understatement!!! Reminds me of the case with the 2 pilots from Northwest flight 3701 when they crashed their CRJ-200LR and killed themselves playing around at 41,000ft. Flying jets is no game and it requires the most of training, precision and discipline.
Yep, I was a pilot with Pinnacle Airlines then, the regional that operated the flight.
It was an error chain of bad decisions.
RIP.
Good analysis, except for one thing. The computed landing distance INCLUDES the distance from crossing the threshold at 50’ to the touchdown point. On a 3° glide path, this is about 1000’. So, of the computed LD of 3,944’, the ground roll would have been about 2,944’. Add the tailwind out of limits, and the high touchdown speed, and their fate was sealed.
It’s great that you took the time to check the items that should be done. Too bad the two jerks at the controls thought they were above all of that tedious stuff
I haven't even flown in an airplane since 1988 and have no desire to. but flight does fascinate me and your videos are really awesome. sometime hard to watch because of the reality of the situations but you break it down so even i can understand it. great work.
Frightening that there are pilots like that out there!!! Outstanding video
Brilliant work! No nonsense and straight to the point.
@@PilotDebrief-_ You steal others' work?
The really scary part? They are both probably still flying by the seat of their pants and blaming human error on faulty equipment.
This was an excellent episode. I’m getting ready to start at a part 91 jet operation and seeing stuff like this just blows my mind. There were so many nopes during this flight I lost count.
I went 91 a few years ago. I still fly pretty much the same as I did under 135.. just less paperwork. Zero reason for 91 to be any less safe.
Hopefully you keep that mindset when the pressure is on. Many other pilot jobs these days too if needed.
Part 91 is the Wild West.
Sure… it can be safe with the right crews and training and companies. But it also can be dangerous. That’s the problem.
When you walk on a 121 carrier aircraft you know that you’re safe no matter whose name is on the side. It’s consistent.
Here in Canada we are far more regulated. When I went to the US for simulator the instructors who were all ex-121 guys were impressed with our SOPs, checklist and drills, and crew resource management on a King Air.
@@justcommenting4981 Fortunately I’ve got some decent life experience. This is a second major career move… 24 years in the Army being the first. I think younger adults typically have a much more difficult time standing up to malpractice so to speak.
@@VictoryAviation I agree.
Hoover, great video man. Those pilots don’t deserve to drive taxis let alone a freaking aircraft!
You can have zero hours and use a checklist successfully and land.
Even if they'd completed the checklist, they were still too fast to stop. It's not the checklist that saves you but your general attitude.
Holy hell. Ive heard about those kinds of pilots my whole 40 years of flying, but they typically dont put pax lives in jeopardy. I wonder if there were other notable incidents in the PIC's records. That cavalier attitude doesnt just come out of nowhere.
@PilotDebrief-_ I have a surprise for your mom, scammer. Buzz off.
What I learned is, you would make a great Monday morning quarterback. And that you are far superior in skills, knowledge, and ability
I love the “Play stupid games, win stupid prizes” statement. That’s got to be a military saying. I’ve heard my fair share of them. Short,sweet and to the point. Great video and very informative. 👍
So no one at the NTSB can see all these things that Hoover sees, hears, and analyzes? Unreal!!!
Every institution in this country is a joke. Remember the "safe and effective" mantra?
@@zwan1886 I sure do...
Always glad to find a high quality watchable channel, it's not very common. But ive been watching you all day, you do good work.
Can't believe these kind of people are allowed to fly.
NTSB going the way of many other once respected institutions
Great analysis, thank you.
The NTSB’s report is shocking in its omissions and decision to downplay the points you quite rightly raised.
All of the ‘banter’ and bravado from the Captain, the conscious breaking of FARs and aircraft limitations, to a low hour FO who is probably feeling pressure to ‘fit in’ and just get the day over with, indicates an extremely dangerous mindset and attitude from the commander.
There is no way whatsoever that such blatant behaviour was not a major, if not the only, contributing factor to this thankfully non-fatal incident.
I hope the FAA throw the book at the Captain and I imagine they will have an investigation to follow - or at least I hope so, because such pilots need to be severely dealt with and weeded out.
Sadly I feel that GA gets let off lightly by the investigators which is not conducive to safety in the industry.
I myself was left incredulous after a report made by a European investigator after a incident within my company (thankfully by two very professional pilots) who were victims of low time on type, put in a tricky weather situation, at a short runway airfield, and in my opinion, under the stress they reverted to their combined thousands of hours of experience on another type, to try landing only to realise they weren’t going to stop. No mechanical failures, no unstable approach, no unprofessionalism, just a simple error made due to lack of type experience. However the report didn’t even mention many of the details which I believed were significant. Principally a company noticing I to light-jet commercial ops with a group of well experienced pilots but with little to no jet experience and low multi-engine time.
Luckily no one was injured in that incident either, but I was shocked at how the investigators seemed to ignore glaring human factors as the NTSB have done with this.
Luckily we never had anyone like that in our company, and if we did they wouldn’t last long. Wow. Just wow!
I'm stunned....
Oh damn!!! THANK YOU!
This is perfect continuing training fodder.
I’m sending the link to all our pilots right now.
As the aircraft sped by us I could swear I heard a hearty YAHOOO! just before they made that muddy pit stop off the end of the runway. YIPPEEEEE !!!
Thank you for your service Hoover.
Thank you for your analysis.
These wanna be pilots have no respect for themselves or anyone else. They do not deserve the privilege of PIC, and their licenses should be revoked immediately. This attitude and behavior should not be tolerated. No warning necessary, or slap on the wrist, pull their license, issue fines, and jail time for their wrecklessness.
You can't fix stupid.
Massive oof!
For both the pilots AND the NTSB.
I saw your short on this, I’m happy you made a long form video because that clarifies everything more
Yep, Flight Aware lists owner as unknown. NTSB needs to be investigated for sweeping this one under the rug.
The NTSB give the owner as Guiltford Transportation Services LLC.
@@GH-oi2jf Couldn't find a Guiltford, there is a leasing company named Guilford, still wonder who they were leasing the aircraft to. I smell something fishy.
@@8AD858D8- must be a typo on the report, then. The operator is given as Snider Fleet Solutions.
I think at the time of the accident (May 2021), it was owned by TLD Aviation out of Newnan GA. Before that was Fourth Quarter Properties. Both are the same guy. Thomas Enterprises, Steve Thomas (note the vanity number, I think it's his football number and his initials). Plane shows as sold since the accident.
Well, thanks for getting us here for our tee time, good luck with the ntsb!
-guy who has to talk to the insurance company.
I feel like by the time you get to this level, you have people for that.
This is just one tiny level above: "Hey, hold my beer and watch this".
9:31 "Umm hey we are going to go play golf" 🤣
New subscriber and I already love this content!
Very good analysis.👍🏻
"We didn't have thrust reversers"? They were clearly deployed!
The part where the passengers took off to go play golf made me think of the Fresh Prince song: "I pulled up to the links about seven or eight and I yelled to the pilots, yo homes smell ya later!"
Found this channel earlier this morning and have been binge watching it all day. Very interesting stuff! Thank you!
If your pilot says, "watch this" pray or stop him.
My thought exactly.
Or…hold my beer.
Army warrant officers famous quote since they fly the choppers!!
If they say that then buckle up your seatbelt because you are about to meet god.
Your narratives are always well spoken and well thought out. Even raw novices like me can learn a few things.
"As well as everything the NTSB missed in their investigation." All too true, and too common.
This, and a couple other videos you’ve done covering dangerous pilots, are examples of why I steer clear of “good ol’ boys.” There seems to be a dangerous mix of arrogance and poor judgement.
More experienced people often take bigger risks because they think they can handle it because they're SO experienced, or they've done it before without any negative consequences, not just in this field but in many others.
@@ryanpenrod1859 While that is true and is another interesting topic, I think this falls more under the category of “some people don’t think the rules apply to them.” There have been a couple other pilot debriefs that fall under this category.
looks like that "good ol' boy" may have also tampered with the switch evidence. if so, he's done.
@@ryanpenrod1859I totally disagree. The more experience I gain, the more conservative I’ve become over the years. And I’ve seen others do the same.
@@Savana-trakkersyou don’t know if the pilots had “insiders”. That’s you assuming (and accusing) based on nothing.
I had to look a second time, the buckets were clearly out when they went by the camera, they should have had full reversers. So many things wrong anyway. No wonder insurance is through the roof!! Great report!! --gary
I flew for a furniture company which used to make pianos in HNB which is cavalier like this. The chief pilot was serving a violation when hired. I was fired for standing up to safety issues.
Top down culture issues
Excellent video and explanation as usual. Thanks.
Sounds like they needed item one on the preflight check list to be “Don’t Crash Today”
If you drove a car like that you’d get thrown in jail.
I wonder if the insurance company paid out?
I've flow with rich owners/pilots who are hard on their planes to save a few seconds and "prove" they can make certain taxiways. Some of them had more respect for physics than others. Sometimes I felt like I was there to restrain some enthusiasm, but it was hard to do it in a way that wouldn't get me kicked out of the plane.
Not sure what is more scary in this story - the pilot’s behavior or NTSB reaction on it
Another great job. I learn something every time. THANK YOU.
Have to add, sad to think I use the same air as the pilots in this debrief. jeez.
“Nah bro, we got it”
- THIS IS NASCAR!!! 😂
Keep up the great work. We need you.
For 8 years (1986-1993)I was fortunate to fly on Pennzoils 2 G-2’s and new Canadian wide body Challenger.
The chairman and CEO had very strict guidelines for operations, including two #1 seat qualified pilots and the ‘host’ was a full time licensed mechanic (always on board)
In my experience, the big corporates and the big "management" companies (EAM) are light years ahead of your typical 91 or 135 operator.
Doing things the "right way" takes money. Everybody else is put in the position of "cutting corners" to a bigger or lesser degree.
Exploring the passenger/flight crew dynamic would be warranted. There are some passengers (like this guy) who put pressure on their flight crews to do stuff they might not due, with the ever present threat (spoken or not) of "taking my business elsewhere".
Would be interesting to see (by an ADS-B review), if this pilot always departed and arrived this "hot", or if it was unique to this particular passenger.
someone said there is no lack of pilots in terms of raw NUMBERS.... Just a lack of pilots who are suitable to actually be pilots and I think this video sums it up perfectly
I like how this guy has such surprise at the ntsb doing a poor job lol
As always, you really do get into the reality of things. Let’s all remember, in the real world, there are all types of people. They get drivers license and still drive dangerously or under the influence. Doctors get degrees/licenses, but can still be incompetent. So why we expect Aviation to be better is beyond me. Pilots are people, and people do really stupid things. Having to get a license and ratings helps…but unfortunately there is no license we must pass to confirm we are mature and responsible human beings before taking lives into our hands. This hopefully is done during the interviews and training process. Which takes me to the owner being a huge red flag for me! Why an owner would have kept this pilot on is also another question we should all be asking. But as Hoover pointed out in a previous crash analysis of the CFI and student crash, the training system has some serious issues, but it’s not just a recent thing. As for NTSB, they are over worked, under paid, and they too are just people, where many are good and some not so much. Lastly, for some reason, we have this Bias of age and experience negating idiocy or incompetence. If there is one thing I have learned over the years (just turned 60)… one’s age and years of experience rarely change a persons core personality… it may temper it some, but it mostly just effects our expectations and perceptions of them as being better, when the reality is not always true.
Need to announce the pilot’s NAMES, so we will All know who these flying criminals are. Is there already a list, if not there really needs to be a data base that list all dangerous pilots with incidents like this so none of us ever fly with them. These pilots are insane- period, and there are hundreds more flying right now with similar incidents/accidents protected by the vail of anonymity. Enough! Please advise. Thanks
I have to agree with you to an extent, just the fact that there’s enough aviation accidents to have a consistent amount of content for these segments, is mortifying!
Great videos Hoover! Love the fact the PAX took off to play golf...LMAO
Such a negligent way of behaving...
Hot dog, but hot dogs split when cooking. Don't be a hot dog in a motorized vehicle, you can get burned and hurt others.
Additionally, drive/fly a vehicle like a race car, maintain it like a race car. If he stopped in time, those brakes were toast.
NTSB should be admonished for not sufficiently punishing the pilots.
Reminds me of a similar situation with a United crew in a B727 many years ago when I was an Air Traffic Controller at Chicago Center. Back in those days (70s) the Center low altitude controller was also the approach controller at Moline, IL (MLI). It's slow traffic and I get a hand-off from the Iowa City high controller somewhere in the vicinity of IOW with this UA flight out of DEN. So UA checks in "out of FL290 for FL240 looking for lower" and I cleared him to 11 thousand, gave him the MLI altimeter, gave him a heading to intercept the localizer and expect a straight in ILS 9 approach. It's been 40 to 50 years ago so I can't remember the exact distance between IOW and MLI, but suffice it to say it's not very far. I'd say I got this guy out of FL290 not much more or less than 100 miles from the airport. Well, I never flew a 727, but my controller experience along with my pilot experience told me this was going to be quite a feat getting this thing down and slowed to safely land on runway 9. So at this point I say to him, "a 360 to the right is approved if you need it". And he replied, "nah we're good". So I coordinated with the tower and cleared him for the straight in ILS 9 approach and had him contact the tower. Well, a few minutes go by and the next thing I hear on the squawk box is, "Guess what's red white and blue and in the slew"? I swear to God this is a true story. I still remember the tower guy's operating initials, RF. We all had to end all communications with our initials. He went by the handle "Rubber Frog". Anyway RF said he crossed the numbers at around 160 knots and did pretty much what this Gulfstream did.
Hi, Tom Miller. 100 miles is plenty to get a 727 down from FL290 to sea level . . . unless there are 30 or more knots of tailwind. 100 knots of wind from the west is not at all unusual above FL250.
After my USAF pilot active duty stint, I did fly the 727, as well as 757, 767, A330 and several others in my 27 airline years. Figuring how far out to request a descent clearance is something I did on every flight for thousands of flights. I was an ATC at Washington Center in the mid to late 70s, but was three years into my airline career when PATCO walked out. Hope you fared OK after that ill-advised labor action.
Incidentally, for those of you who were never ATC, a controller's operating initials were not necessarily the initials of his name. As a fighter pilot beginning my FAA job, I had the initials Sierra Hotel at ZDC.
I wouldn't trust these guys to pilot my shopping cart in the grocery store let alone an actual aircraft.
Another video I watched til the end. If I spell your name right, thanks Hoover for this Explanatory video beyond the NTSB report.👍👌🙏
You get to the point and no unnecessary BS like Mentour pilot.
Mentour pilot is great
@@MarcelleHechenberger-jg7pl Hoover takes ten minutes of information and puts in ten minutes of information whereas Mentour pilot takes ten minutes of information and makes a 40-minute video.
@@K1OIK Still better than Air Crash Investigation or Seconds from disaster...
Im an ATC and I see ridiculous shit like this often. Pilots racing each other. Always ends in tears in CTA when one gets told to hold.
That’s insane smh
Apart from the accident risk, the daily costs of fuel, brake and tyre wear wear increase. In the longer term, mechanical strain will lead to increased wear and replacement on many parts of the aircraft and shorten it's overall life.
Commercial airlines consider all these factors when scheduling journey times.
Man they had no brakes, these pilots saved everyone's lives
The photo of the crane lifting the jet out of the mud reminds me of Dagobah in Empire Strikes Back.
I have what is probably a dumb question to ask. I would have thought by the first 1/3 of the touch down roll that they'd realize they weren't braking (slowing down) as much as they should be. Would they still have enough speed/energy left to turn it into a go around at that point? I'm not used to watching small jets but it seemed like they were kind of hauling butt at that point and doing a go around might have been possible instead of... wheeee let's go play in the mud! Poor airplane. 😞
I think they were so committed to "winning", a go around wasn't something the PIC was willing to do. Pretty dumb, frankly.
Not likely. All decisions take time to make, and they probably were not sure they were not going to make it until one or two seconds after the thrust reversers deployed, once that occurred the aircraft is rapidly slowing, so they would not have the speed or time to take the thrust reversers out and throttle up. Considering there was a tailwind (less lift), with a short runway, if they tried to take off again they likely would have killed themselves and their passengers. Just going off the runway and taking their punishment was likely the best decision they made in this whole thing.
One of my cousins is a veteran flight attendant for private charter flights and said that she refuses to fly with “cowboy” pilots.
Your videos confirm how dysfunctional the FAA and NTSB are internally…geesh
We'll see that pilot's name on Dan Gryder's Probable Cause because he's an accident waiting to happen.
Listening to this, I wonder, was NTSB actually covering them up for some very special reason?
I can't believe how many items the NTSB seems to be missing in reports lately. Nice review I think they should hire you 😂
You can tell the narrator was in the Air Force. He called the airplane a "jet" instead of an airplane. That and the USAF likes photogenic people.
Great video!
No, this NOT NASCAR!
I WANNA GO FAST!!!!