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So when completing an order, the other pilot doesn't do a verbal confirmation such as "Setting flaps to 15". We do this a lot in the medical field to help reduce our errors.
Thank you for the explanation. I was a passenger on the flight and we were never given any. The only thing the pilot did was come on the PA and remark that we just experienced 2.7 g's. As a Physics teacher it was great to experience that force. I also had my students do some calculations and we found that we were just under or at 2 seconds from hitting the water. Our numbers could have been a bit off since we did not know the exact angle. I wouldn't wish that experience on anyone. The pilot kept us alive and for that I am grateful.
Lol, I like your kind of attitude! "Hey, people. I almost got killed on my flight the other day. Let's find out how close it was!" I bet none of your students will ever forget this lession just by it's emotional relevance.
Relieved that an incident like this was (a) reported (b) investigated and (c) learned from. It's a sign of a healthy safety culture and responsible crew. Safety advances should be written in blood pressure spikes, not in lost blood.
I'm not a pilot but I watch this series of videos every chance I get. My personal interest is in accident analysis and understanding how errors happen. These lessons learned have application in many, many areas of our lives. Thank you, Petter, for an outstanding line-up of informative videos. Cheers from British Columbia, Canada.
I agree. I am a software engineer and I work for a financial company which has many customers. Recently, our team delivered a functionality which had a defect in it and affected many customers. In such cases, we have to do a Root Cause Analysis. Since I was the developer by which this defect was caused, I had to give my report and I noticed that I followed Mentour Pilot's way of analysis. I even included the swiss cheese model in my report. The managers were intrigued by that.
Great comment! I agree as well that the lessons derived from these incidents have applications in many areas of life. I am intrigued by how the slightest seemingly minor decision can bring about such a drastic result in many of these cases. Also, the relationship dynamic is key. It is important for every player to feel free to speak up and that their input is welcome. A friendly, non-intimidating environment is critical in any workplace. Finally, I've noticed also that many of these crashes were a result of cutting costs, or inadequate maintenance. It is truly sad that so many lives have been lost for these kinds of oversights and considerations.
@@cbesthelper404 Absolute rubbish. .. Unsubstantiated excuses, speculation and opinion..... Not fact. Fact..... This crew could not fly.... You are only as good as your last flight. This should be their last flight. For the sake of the travelling public.
This most mortem and recent experience driving one leads me to ask: Should airplanes have inattention detectors like Teslas do? And when should airplanes have full autopilot? I guess never according to any selfish pilot or pilot's union...
It's good that he emphasizes how rapidly the situation deteriorated. I get the impression sometimes from viewers who watch these air crash investigation-type videos that they're critical of how "long" it took for the crews to react to a developing emergency, when really these things often happen in a matter of seconds. Just because the video/documentary is taking the time to detail every (mis)step leading up to the crash, doesn't mean that's how long it took in real time.
Absolutely! Actually, if you look at some of his earlier investigation videos, there is a simulator recreation of the real-time progression of the accident. Like u said, It’s amazing how quickly things happen, and interesting how seemingly on-pace explanations of the event are still much slower.
@@aviationandotherstuff6571 I wonder why he stopped doing that. I thought it was pretty nice to get a picture of the real timeline. Maybe a lot of viewers would skip that part and the youtube algorithm penalizes him because it thinks people were leaving early because they were getting bored by the video?
I was amazed when I watched Mentour's video on the Sullenberger "Miracle on the Hudson" flight. The explanation was thorough, and took maybe 15 or 20 minutes. But then he showed a recreation of the flight with actual ATC audio, and it was amazingly short. I don't remember exactly, but I think it was maybe only a minute or less from the geese impacting the engines to landing on the Hudson.
@MentourPilot thanks for covering this one! I was in Maui at the time, and some of my friends were flying in. All said it was the most intense flying experience they had ever had.. I wanted to add as someone who flies into and out of this airport regularly, that runway 20 is often used in "Kona" or southerly winds, and that storm was one of the worst we had had in years.. Kona winds usually come more often during the winter time.. and as a student pilot who flies a 172, I love it because it takes off over the valley and they are far more options for an emergency landing than runway 02.. which is trees and ocean .. not as relevant to a 777 but thought you may find it interesting! Runway 20 is used maybe 4-8 times a year on average
I've been in a plane taking off in a storm. I could tell that the crew set the speed for full throttle and held it that way until they got above the turbulence. I felt the plane get bumped pretty good, but I'm guessing since the plane was pointed slightly upward to climb and had the throttle cranked up the plane handled it very well. I was grateful the pilot decided to handle it this way. I know it puts a little more wear on the engines and uses more fuel, but it's rare I feel comfortable landing or taking off near a storm, and because I could tell what the pilot was doing I didn't worry about those downdrafts pushing the nose down and I never felt that happen. And yes it was nice getting above that storm quickly and then I hear the engines spin down a little and there was then clear sky and a nice smooth ride. So thank you to the pilots that handle that situation this way.
Hi guys, I'm flying as a 777 captain in Seoul, Korea. Personally, I would like to commend the United Airlines captain for his appropriate response. Because all of us with flying experience know that any pilot can find himself in an unexpected situation. If that situation was not what the captain had intended, I think the captain handled it well in a situation that could not have been expected. As you all know, the B777 engine is powerful enough, so if you are in manual flight, you must use appropriate trim during acceleration. Otherwise, it shows a powerful tendency to pitch up with increased speed. However, the video shows that the situation got worse due to the pitch-down during the climb. Due to the sudden increase in speed, the Nose Up Pressure would have been felt very strongly. Afterwards, as it reaches the acceleration altitude, the climb power decreases and flaps up and out of the wind shear area, causing a sudden increase in speed. It appears to have changed to Pitch Down. It is believed that the captain, who had to scan many things simultaneously, such as adverse weather, ATC, flap instructions, and instrument monitors like speed significant change, lost situational awareness for just a few seconds due to the suddenly increased workload. The unintentional nose-down occurred, probably because of the down-trim the captain set a few seconds ago to protect the pitch up high with significant speed increases. It is believed that the nose-down occurred in an instant. As a fellow pilot, I respect the captain who completed the flight safely without panicking in such a situation and without losing focus on the mission. If a pilot flew safely until the end, he accomplished his mission and could review any mistakes later on the ground.
I don't believe you are a pilot. .. As a pilot I think his lack of competent intrument scanning during departure in a perfectly serviceable aircraft was totally unacceptable. He completely lost it at a critical part of the departure. Nobody said it was an easy job.. That is NOT panicking ???? Excuses....excuses.. I thought standards in Korean Air had improved !!
@@daftvader4218- I also agree with you. This is utter incompetence from the pilots, both of them. A big thing was made of the Captain only having 300 hours PIC. Surely the other 4700 hours on the 777 taught him something? Apparently not. The 777 windshear configuration can use flap 15, so no problem there. Engage the autopilot at 500ft and let the plane fly itself. Much easier to have 2 pilots monitoring. The autopilot wouldn’t have oversped the flaps. VNAV SPD pitches for speed, so it would have maintained 5kts below the flap limit speed. If you want more margin than 5kts then use speed intervention. Even a 500 hour FO would know this about the 777.
There is absolutely *nothing* to commend here. This was a pilot-induced close call that never should have happened. Everyone on board is lucky to be alive today. Pity, the pilots names were redacted in the NTSB report.
In my flight sim, flying a Kodiak (don't remember which one) I have twice looked away at my kid messing around with a hot stove, almost crashed twice with a vertical speed of 996 At my work unloading lorries I have looked away at my boss trying to show me paperwork and once almost destroyed a pallet with goods worth about 230K Euros At home I have been distracted while handling electrical tools and almost cut my left hands fingers Walking across the street when I was younger I have not seen a bus fast approaching who thankfully stamped on the brakes while I at the last moment ran out to the curb My lesson is always keep your attention in one place and do not start with demanding tasks while not having finished less demanding tasks Never underestimate this, it can cost you dearly. Very nice incident report otherwise, it is so valuable when you guys teach people through such videos. Top presentation as usual!
Bit complacent aren’t you. Maybe you should give these things the respect they deserve in the future and you might just reduce your blood pressure and live a bit longer.
I'm an electrical engineer for medical technology in Germany and I love investigating a fault on a critical machine (human lives affected), why it did happen, how it did and what can be done to fix and avoid the fault/malfunction. Watching your detailed and fascinating videos makes me overthink my job career and rather become an aircraft engineer. :D Thank you so much for your amazing work Petter! You are really making impacts on people in many different ways. :)
Really appreciate your thoughtful and detailed approach to these incidents. Speculation was rampant before the final report came out including stuff like "the captain was an overbearing jerk that spent the whole time berating the FO instead of paying attention", thank you for clearing this all up. After watching all these videos I've found myself not jumping so quickly to finger-pointing blame game conclusions and asking myself "but why?" and "what could have led up to this?" more often in my every day life. Thanks for another great episode!
Well blame is never helpful, but 10 seconds is a very long time for a PIC to not be flying the aircraft, no matter the cause (close your eyes and count it out, then ask whether you would drive like that). Without the voice recorder we cannot be sure, but I would put money on him being fixated on the flap mistake, and 'aggressively querying' his FO on it. Possibly he did spent the whole 10 seconds berating the FO*, but while 10 seconds is a long time to not be paying attention to fast moving vehicle, it is pretty short for a berating. While a cockpit squabble could have been part of this, I don't think you could extend that to any sort of generalisation about the crew. Glad the backup systems (bitchin betty) did their job, but this seems like a crew meltdown, and I actually hope it was because of a squabble. A PIC ignoring the aircraft for no reason would be a far more worrying situation than one who got distracted by their FOs mistake. * A FO who was presumably disrespectfully not apologising on account of being distracted by the fact that they were crashing into the sea.
@@agsystems8220 I think you're missing the part where we as humans experience tunnel vision. The PIC was probably observing the speed as well as any other flap related instruments while being in a slight state of confusion. 10 seconds of slight confusion with a pitch down is enough for such a thing to happen.
@@agsystems8220 Some communications require verbal confirmation. PIC "Flaps 5" -F/O "Flaps 5". if no "Flaps 5" is confirmed, PIC will say ""Flaps 5" and the flaps 15 is now 5, and confirmed with F/O's verbal "Flaps 5." That's just some protocol. Redundancy is a friend.
@@dusteyezz784 No, I just would have hoped that tunnel vision in the event of a technical issue would be specifically trained against, while tunnel vision due to being pissed off at your FO's error might not. For one reason or another the PIC stopped flying the aircraft for 10 seconds, can we agree on that? If training is good then that should not happen in the event of a flap malfunction, whether technical or human factors related. If the flaps had jammed instead of been mis-set, would this have happened? If you are correct, and the answer is yes, then that is more worrying to me than it being a pure human factors issue where the PIC was distracted by the FO's mistake, rather the results of that mistake. The distinction is important to me.
I guess the question I have is this: why don’t commercial pilots do what submariners do? Captain: “Flaps 5”; FO: “Flaps 15”; Captain: “Negative, flaps 5”; FO: “Flaps 5”. I’ve watched several videos of mishaps where one of the pilots misheard, assumed, or wondered silently why the other was doing or asking for something but either did it anyway or said nothing. This feels like something avoidable, no?
Later the Captain did call "Flap 5" twice again and had no confirmation from the FO. Not sure he should then override the FO and set the flap himself, if it is physically possible.
I've noted that difference, more typically between the aircraft and ATC, as I'm a sub veteran too. in response to another comment, I don't think CRM was appalling, as this happened very quickly, and both crew members had their hands full. I do question how "five" and "fifteen" can be confused, with different vowel sounds and number of syllables. I think more likely the FO was just anticipating "flaps 15" and heard what he thought. Had captain not looked over, they may still have experienced the flaps overspeed anyway, but probably without the severe height/pitch excursion.
I'm a Hawaiian Airlines pilot (captain).. and with regard to the other incident mentioned, I can say without any doubt that the pilot of the A330 that same day did everything he was supposed to but encountered that severe turbulence completely by surprise .. there was no indication of any convective weather on the radar nor visually just prior to the incident.
I’m with AS. Anytime we fly into Maui the passengers are informed right before approach that there could be unexpected winds and turbulence upon approach and landing
My heart aches for you guys; talk about a high stress job! Thank you for keeping calm under pressure over and over again and getting us safely where we need to be. My husband flies constantly for business and I don't worry at all because of you guys and the seemingly insurmountable odds you overcome or try to overcome in these incredible videos this channel creates. You would think these stories would make me worry more, not less but they don't honestly. I see how most of the pilots are by FAR extremely competent to the point of being heroes. Thank you for keeping him safe!
@@wednesday8397unfortunately you can't half ass being a pilot because it is harder to crash only the back of the plane than not at all. One of the few times you as a customer are guaranteed a full effort, at least in regards to safety. Don't get that with lawyers, doctors, or plumbers.
Wow the animation in your videos keeps getting better and better. Down to the first person view of the pilots walking through the airport. You and your team truly deserve all your success!
@@MentourPilot Ha ha love your description of it was definitely first officer weather for the walk around😂 I did a small amount of private flying in New Zealand some years ago end and our aero club was used after work by the regional airline pilots. one of the captains used to have funny comments like that (Brian Bedwell was his name I think he flies for emirates or Royal Brunei )his other one was a funny take on CRM he used to say to new first officers: this is what the letters in Crm mean-together we are the crew ,you are my resource ,and I am management,with a cheeky grin on his face
@@MentourPilot- the 777 trims for speed, not pitch. On take off the aircraft is trimmed for V2+15, so a pilot has to pitch towards 15° nose up, let the aircraft settle, and then it is possible to let go of the controls. For the overspeed protection, any exceedance of Vmo/Mmo produces reverse pressure in the controls by the AFDS. To overspeed the 777 you have to actively fight the controls and continuously push the controls. It most definitely isn’t a case of letting go of the controls, whilst looking away, and the aircraft self initiates a nose dive. The AFDS just doesn’t do this. In this incident, to get 10° nose down and continued overspeed, the Captain is actively flying the aircraft into this position. He was fighting against the aircraft itself.
Even closed loop can break sometimes, in particular when words are sounds a bit close or in noisy environments (like a cockpit under heavy rain...), but indeed it divides the error probability by about 2.
@@elnalaombrebois5665 Yeah, I can easily imagine a situation where the FO sets flaps 5 but repeats "flaps 15" because that's what he heard (The ear-to-mouth path in the brain is an easy situation to get into if it isn't properly and periodically drilled into you that you don't say what you hear but what you do). That said, it does add another layer to that swiss cheese model thing.
I think I have a lot more respect for pilots knowing all the things that are going on on the flight deck even before weather/miscommunication/chaos adds to the mix. It's nice to know that we can have good endings when things go pear-shaped instead of being caught up in the doom scrolling. Lessons were learned, thankfully in this case without fatalities. While I can be glad there are extraordinary pilots that can save a plane from extreme problems (engine flame out/gliders) I am far more comforted by the integrity of the pilots who reported the event voluntarily even after recovery. That gives me hope.
Bad weather always stresses me out as a passenger, even though I've flown countless times now. I really appreciate how the crews performed during some very rough weather situations. These videos, and others like them, have given me considerable insight into what is going on in the cockpit. Thanks.
As a materials and mechanical engineer who has had a only "few" aerospace projects, I am overly impressed with goosebumps the level of detail you go to. To a level that I can promise you actual aerospace engineers that designed the airplane would probably have to re-read and re-study the fundamentals to even come to know all the kinetic dynamics going on, and for you to explain it in the way you do......my *wannabe captain's* hats off to you Captain Mentour :D impressive. thorough. insightful. technically proficient. wow
As an aerospace engineer (propulsion systems), I agree with you 100% on the level of simplicity with enough details in his explanations. Love this channel.
@@tigerrx7 exactly. My father has a PhD in MechE Engineering with concentration in Combustion and a master in Aerospace and undergrad in france's ElectroMechanical Engineering (EE mixed with ME) and his PhD is CONCENTRATED on scramjet propulsion and his dissertation was confidential in the 1990s and I sent him this video and have yet his take on this video yet and trust me when he has a chance to flex his knowledge, he will lol haha I remember the countless hours as a child on campus with him watch at the time I thought was just a big fireball for hours lol. Lo and behold, that's what got his American citizenship because it was a.. I hope I can share this... DoD Confidential project. Lol
@@ONLYFACT_X lemme guess, it involved a Skunky work and a lake that was groomed. ;) Ran into some of their works over the decades, well, I would've ran into them, had they existed.
Sometimes it just feels scary how quickly a situation can escalate making your position very bad. To be honest when I saw the 10 degree pitch-down at thirteen hundred feet I was expecting your saying "unfortunately it was too late". Other than that, great video and can't wait for next week's. It's always a great excitement when I get the notification! Love from a 14 yo Greek hoping to become a pilot some day.
People become more educated by watching these videos, but maybe also more humble thanks to your excellent explanations and understanding in how the human mind and performance is affected by fatigue, distraction and stress.
I've gained understanding of the complex human and mechanical (and conditional) factors that can cause incidents like this, so I don't just jump to conclusions. That's value!
I’m glad you mentioned Juan Browne’s video on this. He also did an excellent breakdown of this incident and he also recreated it in MFS. When you see just how freaking quick things go sideways it throws the whole thing into a new light. Kudos to you Petter for the continued excellence on this great channel!!
Usually, in fixed wing aircraft, an emergency is something one can first take time out to wind their watch. This was more like rotary wing, where split second correct responses are critical. Which typically only occur at low altitude in both cases. Makes sense, as one cannot crash into the air, but one can crash into the ground or water. Many years ago, I got fooled briefly by a false horizon. Instruments conflicted with my vision and common sense prevailed and I relied on instruments and halted a hard climb before there was a problem. To this day, I'll trust instruments over my senses, save if oh, the great wide world is about to smack me in the face and instruments say otherwise, then I'll go for getting the world out of my view and sky prominent in my view, then figure out whatinhell is wrong with my otherwise more reliable instruments.
I flew that day on a 717 from ITO to HNL. I've flown dozens of times between the islands as I'm born and raised here. As such, I've never flown through a storm like that and it was the 1st time I was scared to be in am airplane. The turbulence was next level but it's a good thing that the 717 is built like a tank! I have a bunch of lightning vids from this flight that I'll upload one day. Literally, lightning on all sides of the plane, and you could see how towering the clouds were with each flash. Had to been 30 to 40 thousand feet high.
She got you! Fell for that nonsense hook, line and stinker! There's some lunacy related to the Internet where random losers like to pretend "and you were there". The closest mixed-up-nutt has been to an airplane is when she remembers that "waiting at the liquor store 40 ounces to freedom so" she takes that walk and looks through the fence.
FIrst off, I am thankful for ALL the safe plane journeys I've ever made (including one very bumpy landing in Bangalore when a tire burst upon hitting the runway). I am immensely thankful for all the pilots and crews' hard and careful work. They deserve our appreciation!!! Everyone is so quick to criticise when something goes wrong --- but do you ever think about the incredible responsibility pilots have? When you think about all the things that could possibly go wrong (any combination of technical issues, human error, weather conditions), then we should all be thankful for each safe landing, and NEVER take it for granted. I do not mind uncomfortable seats, smelly lavatories, screaming babies (or adults!!) .... ALL I want is to land safely at destination. THANK YOU TO ALL THE PILOTS AND CREW OUT THERE!!
Except that he has missed the obvious stuff about the flight control automation in the 777 and how this situation was created solely by the Captain who was fighting against the aircraft and it’s flight envelope protections.
Petter, your work has always been top-notch but the improvement and expansion of ground models has not gone unnoticed! Loved the look inside the airport.
This series is very well made. Even a lay person can get thorough and fascinating look into what a commercial airline pilot faces on the job. These people really deserve high compensation.
Given the care you put into this and the constant improvement on what is already the best aviation channel on you tube. I would gladly fly with you any day. Once I get my commercial that is. lol
@@MentourPilot This is the second time I've heard you mention Juan Browne. I bet a lot of people know who he is without knowing the name. If anyone watched any footage of the Oroville Dam Spillway failure in 2017, they probably saw Juan's updates (including personal flyovers) on his "Blancolirio" RUclips channel. Considering I live 30 minutes downstream and Juan is just up the hill in Grass Valley, I've become a huge fan of his. He was even doing the announcing at the STOL races at the Reno Air Races this week. Very cool that my two favorite pilot channels are friends. You are going to have to visit NorCal someday. Just beware of our seasons: Summer and Fire. (yep, there are only two)
@@ronjones-6977summer and Fire? You didn’t see Juan keeping track of how many feet of snow he had last year? I hear ya though. Am in the same area and too many days of over 100 makes it seem like summer and fire. 😂
Great job covering this, Petter. IMO, they’re both good pilots that just had a mishap. They recovered the plane, and properly reported it. It obviously could have ended up bad, but instead highlighted a flaw and led to good changes in training.
Well I do not know about good changes in training but it was good to report it and recheck the flaps. A lot of these videos show a very large amount of over complicating common flight practices which causes mistakes from the pilots. Unfortunately that is how those gov agencies expand. More rules, regulations, laws = bigger funding, bigger buildings, more employees and so on. You bet your butt ever single time they check something they are adding more red tape even if its not needed or is not even helpful. In my day we had next to none of this. I do not know how pilots in these commercial planes handle all this garbage. They are truly something else.
@@bobshanery5152 Sure, the government never helps anything, and I can certainly agree with most of what you’re saying. The 1,500 hour rule came about from a crash where both pilots had well over 1,500 hours, so nobody knows where the government even came up with that nonsense. But this incident did lead to better training at the airline, as stated in this and other sources on this incident
@thetowndrunk ; if the government never helped anything, we'd have pilots without licences, car drivers with no licences, no speed limits, no stop signs, and people carrying automatic weapons in Walmart...
I was so relieved to hear that nobody got hurt. Everybody was briefed in advance and expecting some kind of trouble from the weather... I think the passengers expected a rough ride in these conditions anyway. A miscommunication under pressure - can happen to anyone. Thanks for the video!
"A miscommunication under pressure..?" See a comment above referring to the procedure that submariners use, and is SOP for the best airlines, where orders are repeated back and confirmed verbally, ie "Captain: “Flaps 5”; FO: “Flaps 5." If, especially during challenging situations, this procedure is used, then incidents like this could happen a lot less.
Tbh, as long as they weren’t scared I think the lift feeling from the G’s would have been awesome. Hopefully they couldn’t see the water and grasp what was happening
It's wild how close we can come to total disaster in such a short moment in time. 10 seconds is nothing! Just glad everyone was okay. Great video, Petter and team!
I love "disaster" shows, but not because I take joy in watching catastrophe. I want to understand how and why the event unfolded, and the analysis of what we did/n't do that affected the outcome. I deeply appreciate that when choosing incidents to cover, the Mentour team give as much consideration to _educational potential_ as they do for how "exciting" the story might be. Those "exciting" (read: macabre) stories and lessons are so important, but they are not the whole picture. Near misses like this video are lessons, too--with none of the tragedy and all of the learning opportunity. Besides, I find near misses every bit as interesting to watch and learn about as the catastrophes. I love my mainstream disaster documentaries, but they just don't cover events like the one in this video (as much as I wish they would!). Mentour Pilot channel is always a breath of fresh air.
Great video Petter and crew ! Take your eyes off the road for a second and you could take a bike rider out. Very easy to do. Thank you for your detailed analysis. Everyone ( pilots and non pilots )should learn from this one
I am a current 777 pilot. I think it’s important to not just focus on the ‘what’ (the ‘first story) but also the ‘why’ (the ‘second’ story). There are a few things that strike me as odd in this account. Splitting the NDs between Terrain and Weather inhibits pop up wind shear advisories for the pilot on Terrain. In such severe weather conditions this could leave to confusion about an avoidance manoeuvre. The departure was clearly going to be a high workload situation; strange why the AP wasn’t used as a mitigating factor. In the event of a flap over speed the 777 has flap overspend protection. In the event that Vmo is exceeded the aircraft will also seek to correct the flight path in certain circumstances; naturally without the AP engaged this would merely be presented as a FD command. These things give us insight into the systemic culture within UA of operating this aircraft which is interesting. The pilots are a product of the system. No pilot wants to hear a EGPWS pull up caution (although increasingly this is happening as a result of GPS jamming in Asia) Terrific item as always, thought provoking for all. As you say, things develop very quickly and potentially could happen to any of us.
Great question there. I myself wondered why the AP wasn't coupled as soon as they could, especially is you say that so many automated levels of protection become muted. Why try to hand fly in those horrendous conditions?
@@josephdefreitas56 because it doesn't need to be... this "couple the AP" culture, though, seems to be a mantra in the middle east (and Cathay). There was a screwup on this UA flight, but "manual flight" wasn't it.
@@muru3xi I'm telling you manual flight in these conditions isn't a big deal until someone stops doing their job. In any case, the AP isn't a crutch - I've seen the reports for how much it overspeeds and how poorly the AT really maintains airspeed control in gusty conditions. Though assume all you want (don't you know that just makes an "ass" out of "u" and "me"?)... my 3000+ hours in the left seat of the 777 alone say different.
@@nunya-d2t would you, as someone with so many hours on the left hand seat of the 777, hand fly in weather like this with a fresh f/o acting as PM? you’re basically saying i can do everything by myself. he’s handicapped as it is, don’t make his job harder by trying to be the cool guy.
One thing I love about your series is that you focus as much on what went right (after something went wrong) as what went wrong in the first place. Yes mistakes happen in every line of work and most often are dealt with, without major consequences. The same is true in the airline industry as well. It is just that most “air crash” series focus on the failures than the far more prevalent successes. Thank you.
Mentour Pilot is hands down the best aviation safety channel on YT. I was looking for a specific accident when I found this channel...I never left because the quality of content on this channel is superb.
Your usual exellence. You and Juan are my most viewed aviation experts on YT. I got a big kick out of your endorsement. I'm of marginal expertise being a low time PP, but a flyboy geek since falling in love with books about Orville and Wilbur when I was a boy. I was on a dual rated rotorcraft/fixed wing CFI track and have kept my head in the biz off and on over the years. Airshow geek too. Anyway, fwiw, you and Juan are capital T trusted experts and I admire the work you do. Its so valuable to the industry....just for starters. And theres that huge saving lives thing! Thanks again and make sure you get your R&R in. Your work ethic is insane dude. Both you guys! Lol. Safe flyin'!
I live just down the hill from Juan and he is my go-to source for anything to do with aircraft, wildfires, and floods in our area. The man is a resource of the highest value.
You know when you're with your friends and something terrible nearly happens - you all look at each other - imagine how these pilots reacted after they'd stabilised... wow 😮
I remember a 360 degree spin on an icy road over 35 years ago. I was in the back seat of a Honda Civic with three other college friends. We all just sat there catching our breath before congratulating our very shaken, but skilled, driver.
I once had a similar aircraft related incident looking away momentarily, to observe the path of a BA 777. When i looked forward again i realised i could not avoid a collusion. Fortunately the impact was slight and there was no major damage. I should add that i was in my car in stationary traffic on the M25 near Heathrow Airport. 😂
This has happened to me (recently). Had it not been for the GPWS I might not have noticed the change in attitude. I became fixated during a nighttime IFR departure on an engine power change and within seconds I lost situational awareness, Seconds. Thank you for the insight and analysis.
These videos are getting sick. The animations, the level of details, how the info is structured and even the sounds, make these videos very pleasant to watch.
@@Capecodham what Squirrel2000 said. "Sick" used in that context means really good. Not sure what words that generation uses to express illness though 😁
Sick? Please don't use slang known primarily in your own country. It confuses the heck out of the rest of us.I rushed to my pharmacy to buy some medication to cure the videos.
I love MP videos. So informative and thorough. I have two takeaways from this one, and it’s based on a very correct observation that takeoffs/landings are an extremely chaotic and increasingly complex sequence and “things happen fast”. Truer statements were never made. That’s why I love love Mentour. 1). Why do Tower ATC hand off the radios so quickly and force pilots to divert their attention and change freqs right in the middle of the most critical/complex time? Technology should certainly be able to help this by now. We’ve had radios for 100 years and we’ve not done a thing to reduce the distraction factor on the pilots so they can keep their focus on the plane and instruments where they belong. Both procedurally and with technology they can preprogram two frequencies into a radio and do a quick-change and a simplified read back and save very valuable seconds and distractions. The buttons in a 1965 Chevy had presets and we could punch a button in less than 1/4 second without having to look down. A 2023 Boing needs to do it manually? Doesn’t make any sense to me. 2) No cockpit voice recording was available to investigators because the memory was overwritten by the time they landed? For what possible reason can we have for not having memory chips inside the CVR to carry a full long distance flight on any aircraft? These planes cost tens if not hundred millions of dollars and they can’t afford to buy and ruggedize a big enough memory chip to record the full flight? That’s just silly in my opinion and as an engineer myself, it makes me shake my head.
1) Pilots can preselect the next frequency and will typically have the departure frequency ready to switch once the tower says so. But you have to be told when to switch and acknowledge before doing so 2) You can’t just stick any data recording device in a plane. These are specialises ones designed to withstand thousands of G’s, over 30 mins at 1000 degrees and 30 days underwater
@@tomstravels520- re: 2 True, the actual "black box" is a specialized and expensive piece of equipment, but except for privacy there is nothing that prevent a plane from having a simpler and cheaper auxiliary recording device that could store communication for weeks.
@@JanBruunAndersen that is the reason. Privacy, it’s the main reason the pilot unions are against cameras in the cockpit. Nobody wants to be on film all day and have their managers listen in and watch their every move
@@tomstravels520 I would certainly appreciate the privacy concerns. However there have to be safeguards already in place that dictate exactly who and for what purpose CVR recordings are allowed to be reviewed. And of course, memory devices in CVRs are specialized, but trust me, they make them much bigger in exactly the same form factor and specs. I work with similar technology each day.
I’m a 777 FO under line training, first thing my sim instructor taught me is in these types of circumstances is to engage the AP sooner than later. This could’ve prevented all this from happening. Glad they all walked away safe.
I don’t know anything about flying, but do you mean they could engage it when they were at 800’ and it could correct more quickly or efficiently than the Captain pulling up?
@@TheEmaile in the 777 you can actually engage the AP at 200 feet! In cases like this it will significantly reduce the work load and none of this would happen.
@@TheEmaileyou can engage the auto pilot if there’s no effort on the command column . Assuming that , the plane sinking with such a vertical speed, it would have been too late. And btw, the pull up manoeuvre has to be performed manually. (Wind shear escape manoeuvre can be performed with autopilot) I’ve flown my first hours of B777 23 years ago. At that time, in my airline, there was not all choices of flaps for take off. Flaps 20 for take off was not possible. For many years now, with the OPT APP (onboard performance tool) , the setting for calculation is “flap optimum”, and in certain circonstances like this event, the better performance is calculated with FLAPS20. But it’s not usual (on the airports I use to fly), so I add to my take off briefing that the flaps retraction sequence is 20 then 5, I try to remind that to my FOs.
I'd just like to mention (relevant to what you say at 3:20) that the 777 *does* actually compensate for thrust and configuration changes when the Flight Control System is in normal mode. From the FCOM: "Airplane pitch responses to thrust changes, gear configuration changes, and turbulence are automatically minimized by PFC control surface commands. The PFCs also provide compensation for flap and speedbrake configuration changes, and turns up to 30° of bank. The PFCs automatically control pitch to maintain a relatively constant flight path. This eliminates the need for the pilot to make control column inputs to compensate for these factors." (I suppose the key word there is 'minimised', but from practical experience, configuration and thrust changes are indeed considerably reduced, if not downright gone, compared to the 737 for example) The major difference to Airbus is the change from flight path stability to speed stability. So the 777 is trimmed in pitch for a specific airspeed, and deviations from the system 'trimmed' airspeed result in a typical natural pitch up or down (ie. slower than trimmed speed, nose drops, faster than trimmed speed, nose rises).
So an airbus compensates for all, an old plane compensates for none of that, Boeing decided to go half some half not.... Also how do you compensate for thrust but not for speed? Increase in thrust means increase in speed unless you're climbing that steep
@@tomstravels520 - there is a different philosophy between Boeing and Airbus. I’ve never flown Airbus but the 777 is exceptionally easy to fly if you know what you’re doing. If you don’t then it’s Asiana 214 or AF11 for you. I’m sure Airbus is easy to fly as well, considering it’s technological differences to Boeing. From my companies safety reports it’s clear that people make the mistakes, for the most part, and bugger up approaches or decisions, etc.
Thanks again for talking about serious incidents that aren't just crashes. It sets you apart from many other channels that just end up being disaster porn.
It's just WORTHY OF NOTE here to remember, in the case of ANY kind of "overspeed", pitching UP will at least mitigate, and at best eliminate the problem for the time being. The obvious second-phase/step would be throttle adjustment... It's only a temporary thing, but during take-off/climb out, while you're sorting out flap condition between what it's "supposed to be" and what it "really is", there's an easy few seconds to a minute you can just trade speed for altitude and recover relatively well... Might exceed what ATC asked you to get, but it beats the hell out of CFIT any day of the year, and in my opinion (humble or not so much) it's a fine and tongue lashing from a chief pilot that I'll be happy to live long enough to see... especially if I manage to do so without breaking the plane. ;o)
@@desertstar223 "Experimentals" (aka "Ultralights")... They require the least certification (both the aircraft and pilot) and as long as you're strict about sticking to the free airspaces, you CAN get hours off the ground without a license at all... BUT one really SHOULD go ahead and get into a program and follow the courses as with any such hobby and/or sport. It's not too ridiculously expensive, and a decent aircraft CAN haul you and a little cargo (think go-kart or motorcycle cargo capacity equivalent-ish) for about the cost of a decent car... Before even that, I grew up on two wheels, and I still practically live to ride motorcycles. It might seem exciting and action-packed from the side, but once the skills are developed, it's actually more like a slow-dance with a world-class professional dancer. She always knows the steps better than you, and all you really NEED is to let her know what you want, and then LET HER do it. It's probably the most difficult thing for students to "get", but it's amazing when you finally relax and quit making your own life harder on yourself... haha... BUT there's a lot of overlap to piloting. I couldn't get my ass off the ground alone if I tried... SO it's kind of all up to the plane. They are designed to fly, after all... just like bikes are actually designed to be ridden. In any case, it just doesn't really do anything helpful to bash what others did, or take the figurative piss out of their already sh*tty day... In the moment, when we're going to struggle to function at all, it's just more helpful to look at how very basic we can cut to the core of our skillset and do the least to accomplish the best resolve possible... even step-by-step... maybe especially step-by-step. It's part of how I continue to study up on riding motorcycles, too, and I've been doing that legal on the road for over 30 years. ;o)
Been a fan a long time now and even though this has been covered extensively on other aviation channels I still always get excited when a new videos of yours comes out. Really great stuff 👍🏻.
Great video as always. As you've mentioned, a "similar" thing happened to me while driving on the highway. I've turned my eyes away from the road to adjust the climate control and when I laid my eyes back on the road again, half of car the was into the other lane. And this was only for like 5-10 seconds. Luckily there were no other cars near mine and good thing this was not on a two lane road with incoming traffic. Took my lesson there to keep my eyes on the road.
I had only 2 seconds to push nose down in an engine failuer during start. There was no more secound left, becouse stall and death. There was no time for fear.
@@QuaxC42 yeah, out of altitude, speed and ideas, there is no time. Afterward, it's code brown time, but not during. The most heartbreaking words I've heard from a CVR were, "Tell my wife that I love her very much", followed immediately by the sound of the aircraft breaking apart.
Your point on what can happen in 10 seconds of looking away while driving is so important to remember. In 10 seconds a toddler can get loose from his mother and run in front of your car, in 10 seconds someone can run a red light into an intersection you are turning on to and end up in front of you, in 10 seconds a person coming the other way can have their replaced left tie rod come off and you would miss seeing them start to lose control and come in your lane. (The tie rod came off on my car and luckily there was no oncoming traffic when my car turned hard to the left into the other lane towards the embankment.)
A whole bunch of 10 second events that have nothing to do with this. I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make. There’s been several crashes caused by pilots, not waiting 10 seconds to see what the planes going to do. The only issue here was the low altitude that they started at if they said happened to 30,000 feet then it wouldn’t have been an issue.
thanks for the video, Petter! Your comment at the end of the video is on point, something like this happened to me this very afternoon, I was driving in a city, at speed limit (50km/h) and the front car was a good 100m ahead, I let go my concentration a mere 2 sec to check a direction panel, I didn't see the front car braking hard, by the time I had the eyes on the road again, I was past the limit of a safe emergency braking, still applied the brakes of course and while decelerating, I had to swerve into a parking slot (thankfully empty) along the road, when I was stopped, the front of my car was at the level of the other car passenger's door. No collision, no damages and no injuries, thankfully. so yeah, be careful of your environment when using any vehicle, be a rolling or a flying one :)
The NTSB final report states the PIC had 500 hours total on the type (which would have been a big difference), but the link to the incident report shows 5,000 hours. Even the NTSB can make a mistake!
I flew the metro liner and never had an autopilot. What joy. We did always verify each other on the inputs. Vertigo can happen easily too and must be overcome and trust your instruments. I learn so much from your videos. Thanks. glad they got it under control.
It is scary when you reach over to change stations on the car radio. You think it will only take a fraction of second, but then the station you change to is playing something you don't like and you try to find another. You forget that you're driving while focused on the radio for 3, 4, 5,.. 10 seconds...
I would had had a heart attack. I want to thank all pilots all over the world for getting us to our destinations safely. I am beyond terrified to fly but still do. Thank you pilots and flight crews
Great video as usual. I’m only a private pilot, but one of the things I remember learning is to rely on your instruments…. The instructor would take us into a cloud, and then say, are we level and it seemed like we were maintaining level then he would say look at the artificial horizon and we were starting to turn sideways. Weird how that works. I guess it just shows even these pro pilots flying these amazing machines have to stick with the basics..
Awesome recap! We airline pilots in the US hand fly a lot, at my company most pilots will engage the AP around 20k feet. Perhaps use of automation in this instance could have mitigated the illusions as well as free up some mental bandwidth
Hand flying is great when you have spare capacity, but a combination of factors should have rung alarm bells for this crew and the decision to engage the AP on departure would have saved them from all this humiliation. Unfortunately they just come across as utterly incompetent.
Mentour, I am almost sure that, in normal law, the 777 flight-by-wire autotrims too. The difference is that it autotrims for speed, not for climb speed / load factor like the Airbus philosophy, so the 777 behaves similarly to a non-FBW plane where the airplane seeks to go back to the speed for which the plane is trimmed, except that, unlike a non-FBW plane, the 777 automatically compensates for configuration changes (like flaps, salts, speedbrakes and gear) and changes in thrust so the speed for which the plane is trimmed doesn't change when you make these conf and thrust changes. Although unrelated, I think that the 777 FBW logic also damps the long-period mode of longitudinal oscillation (phugoid) so if you make a change in config or thrust it will stabilize in the new flight vertical profile in 1 single cycle In the 737 if you are flying straight and level at constant speed and close the throttles, the plane will start to lose speed and the nose will go down but it will "overshoot" the equilibrium pitch so it will gain more speed that it originally had and then will pitch up and so on during several oscillations until it stabilizes in a descent with an airspeed a bit higher than the original one due to the loss of the thrust in the underslung engines (effect equivalent to trimming nose down). If you do the same in the 777, the plane will start to pitch down immediately, it will still lose some speed in the beginning but the nose will go a bit more down than equilibrium pitch so the plane will speed up again and when the plane approaches the selected speed again it will pitch up that bit back up to the equilibrium pitch.
I think it's funny how you and Green dot uploaded a video on the same incident. I've been watching both channels for a while and knew this had to happen eventually 😂
I'm just thankful that there were no injuries and it's now simply a learning experience for all. I'm always remembering Delta 191 when the words wind shear are used. Also...8000 fpm climb rate for the 777? That's a lot of power.
Some of it was transient, trading airspeed for altitude, rather than steady-state and sustainable. Just like how your car can climb a hill with the transmission in neutral and no power at all going to the wheels, if you start at the bottom of the hill already coasting at highway speed.
One thing I don't recall happening is the FO repeating the command flaps 5, for if he had responded with flaps 15, the PIC would surely have heard that and corrected him. And if he didn't respond then he should have repeated the command, or at least asked if the FO had heard the command.
Mentour pilot You are getting sharp day by day, I can feel your continus improvement process and you are killing any kind of competition far behind you. I have a great connect what ever you say Have an absolutely fantastic morning thank you for your hard work ❤❤❤
Great video as always. One thing I would say about this is that the crew's quick response was critical to avoiding catastrophe here. BTW I see two other human factors related aspects here closely related to what you covered but going a little further. The first is about the somatogravic illusion. One important aspect here is that during instrument flight training, pilots are (as you know) trained heavily on this and taught to ignore spacial sensations because these can be unreliable. I dont know if the captain pushed forward on the control column (as you point out that is not necessary to recreate this here), but the sense that would alert us to a change in pitch is something he would have had extensive training and experience in ignoring and for good reason. This means that visual cues are the only reliable measures and in the clouds, the only visual cues come from the instruments. The second point is about stress-related fixation. When we face stress our concentration narrows This means that we tend to fixate on the perceived problem at hand at the expense of the greater situation. In my view when the captain noticed the barber poles not acting as he expected the stress in this case would have made it harder to maintain proper situational awareness of the overall vertical flight path and attitude of the aircraft. As you point out this happened very rapidly. and our cognitive biases work against us in rapidly changing situations. These are all things all of us can learn from regardless of whether we are flying a plane or just operating anything else.
I love how you explain all the technical particulars about getting a plane airborne. If I wanted to become a pilot, 'Mentour Pilot' Channel would be essential viewing and would definitely be my channel of choice. I love watching 'Mentour Pilot' anyway. It's exhilarating viewing. Thank You.
15:20 Doesn‘t 777’s fbw automatically trim the aircraft if the A/C is whitn the trim reference speed（trim button in 777/787 is used to change the trim the reference speed and according to that speed，the airplane will automatically trim itself…the A/C will always in trim in that speed no matter of the configuration）
Yea it will automatically trim to maintain the speed but it requires the flick of the trim switches to change the reference speed for the horizontal stabilizer to then move. It wont move on it's own after pitch inputs.
Climbing Solo single seat through 18000 feet in a snow storm with St Elmo's fire running up the central windscreen strut. Fascinating. Luckily I was talking to a safety pilot mate in the tower telling him what I was seeing. He was an old and bold. He asked if I had looked at my instruments recently... I hadn't for several seconds... and what I saw on the instruments initiated an ingrained muscle memory recovery from an very unusual position. As I remember it was 60 degrees right bank and 45 degrees nose down and speed accelerating towards VNE. Thank you Mike and thank you for all of that unusual position training. Continuous adherence to flying my aircraft with a selective radial scan would not have allowed this to happen. Any baby pilots out there, or even old and bold, flying the aircraft is paramount... admiring the view can kill you and any unfortunate souls in your professional care.
On the 777 you only have to trim for speed changes and not configuration changes. A slight point, but nevertheless an important one in this discussion.
I was wondering what happened with that flight. I can totally see that happening, fighting what your inner ear says in turbulence and flying the instruments can be challenging. I fly single pilot, and in situations like that I wait on the ground for better weather. It was great to see the pilots report the incident responsibly. Another lesson learned. If I expect to be IMC shortly after takeoff…I’ll brief myself to use caution for disorientation and to concentrate on flying the aircraft. I’m gong to add it to my check list too. Never stop learning, never stop improving.
Judging from the title of the video, I thought the plane went down and you were emphasizing the last recorded words seconds before impact which would be investigated and focused on in this overview. As someone who just came back from a trip to Maui, you have no idea how relieved I was to finally hear that this had a good ending 😅
Great video but one thing you can fix. The audio level of the chapter screen sound is too loud (such as 10:28), and makes everything else quiet once RUclips applies its loudness correction.
I'm not a pilot but have gained a fascination for commercial flying since becoming hooked on your series. Thanks so much. Always look forward to them (not sure if I'll ever want to fly again though - will have to enjoy holidaying locally from now on😅)
Great video, as always. I think the comment about somatogravic illusion was very well placed here too. One thing that I think the video might've benefitted from, is the real-time replay of the accident using the graphic toold your team has, like you used to have in some of your early videos in this series. I Find them exctremely useful in underlining just how fast things were happening.
Yup, I totally agree with you! I'm an AME and on some test flights I have pointed things out to the pilots like TCAS wasn't turned on after rotating, low airspeed etc.... Lots going on in a cockpit and they would have caught it down the line but definitely cannot get enough awareness. Side note: this was on older aircrafts with less automation...
Thank you for your great videos: as a Boeing operator, I’ve seen these mistakes and distractions in training , it’s nice to hand fly through the reported weather , I’d like to think you get that auto pilot on after takeoff much earlier to reduce the workload and manage things differently, you already have to divert your eyes to decide your weather deviations. Second as a captain I’d be factoring in the fo’s time on type into my thought process when first meeting them and qualifying their experience, although they had a slew of Boeing experience , they were barley out of line in doc at that point. Auto pilot on at SOP minimum altitude and manage your airplane and what your fresh FO is doing, just my 2 cents. I guarantee you that captain has made that mental adjustment since the incident. Either way we all learn from each others mistakes so not trying to throw anyone under the bus, thanks for sharing
I flew the 777 for 5 years. The trim system is automatic and will trim out all configuration changes automatically regardless of you being on AP or not. In the air it is called “trim reference speed.” In regards to the flap configuration setting from 20 to 5, when I first did my training, I quickly learned that you call the next flap setting for the flap bug as your airspeed trend penetrates the next bug. The first officer botched it by not slapping 5 in the setting and the captain should have looked first to see the bug switch from 5 to 1 and when it didn’t looked at the lower display to see what was commanded and then at the lever. When it was apparent the correct setting wasn’t utilized called it again and if no answer just thrown it himself. I know this is “Monday morning quarter backing it” but you “trust but verify” in aviation.
I really don’t get the point of this trim reference speed. Airbus will trim for everything, an old plane doesn’t autotrim for anything. Boeing will trim for everything except speed changes? Why? Why not just make it trim for everything, this seem like they just wanted to be different to Airbus. Either trim for everything or trim for nothing, why make it only trim for half the stuff
@@tomstravels520- I have been thinking about this situation a lot because Green Dot has just released a video about it, and Blancorillo did a month ago. Boeing and Airbus have their philosophy. I believe that Boeing developed the FBW system to mimic older aircraft so that transitioning from an older Boeing to the 777 was easier. I haven’t flown Airbus so I don’t know the Airbus philosophy. However, the 777 is an absolute jog to fly and is so easy and light. On departure the pitch is trimmed for V2+15. When you rotate you slowly rotate towards 15° and can then, generally let go because the aircraft stabilises. For thrust and configuration changes the aircraft also adapts so you don’t get pitch changes. The thing that I find most worrying about this incident, and it hasn’t been picked up by any of the YT content creators, is that the autopilot /flight director system has flight envelope protection. For overspeed it works in 2 ways. Firstly manual trim stops. You can’t “trim for speed” when that speed is an over speed. Secondly, and more importantly, the flight controls become heavier and feel like they’re pushing back against you for over speeds. As you enter a dive and overspeed the aircraft the forward force on the control column has to be maintained. To get 15° nose down, the Captain has to be physically pushing / fighting against the controls. It is quite an effort and a lot of force involved. This Captain didn’t just let go of the controls. He was physically fighting the aircraft and actively forcing it into an overspeed. Letting go of the control column will have allowed this opposing force to push back on the controls and pitch the aircraft back towards a no overspeed condition. People have reported that the nose droppped, as if the aircraft was a badly trimmed Cessna 152. That’s impossible in the 777.
I love to watch these videos twice. Once in the background while I make breakfast or chores. Second, with the remote on my hand watching intently and pausing it to try understand by rewinding it a bunch of time 😂❤
4:58 Seems a bit odd that there’s no info there about potential gusts, given the amount of turbulence that’d been reported. 6:58 I thought windshear warnings were something that would generally preclude a takeoff entirely (and cause a pilot to reject a takeoff they’d already begun, if it’s still possible)? 15:06 I admit I’m no pilot, but I’d always heard the main way to quickly reduce airspeed is to pull back on the yoke (and likewise, push forward to increase your airspeed). More generally, the golden rule as I’d heard it was "yoke for airspeed; throttle for altitude". I strongly suspect I’m either missing something major here, or else I’ve just completely misunderstood things - so feel more than free to correct me.
that's really true. I actually think I've learned a great deal about staying calm and analyzing the options in all kinds of difficult sitations from Petter's videos.
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@@CptJake07Go on, you know you want to.
@@CptJake07 How brave!
So when completing an order, the other pilot doesn't do a verbal confirmation such as "Setting flaps to 15". We do this a lot in the medical field to help reduce our errors.
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Thank you for the explanation. I was a passenger on the flight and we were never given any. The only thing the pilot did was come on the PA and remark that we just experienced 2.7 g's. As a Physics teacher it was great to experience that force. I also had my students do some calculations and we found that we were just under or at 2 seconds from hitting the water. Our numbers could have been a bit off since we did not know the exact angle. I wouldn't wish that experience on anyone. The pilot kept us alive and for that I am grateful.
What an experience! Turning this incident into a teachable subject is wonderful.
Grateful you are still with us, Amen ❤️🙏❤️
Sure you were buddy
Lol, I like your kind of attitude!
"Hey, people. I almost got killed on my flight the other day. Let's find out how close it was!"
I bet none of your students will ever forget this lession just by it's emotional relevance.
So glad you are safe and able to share your experience with the community!!
“First officer weather” for the walk around. I’m sure 74Gear couldn’t agree more
Hahaha!!
Free breakfast weather.
😅
@@MentourPilotLL lp😊😊0ppp00😊😊0
Check the snacks being loaded 😅
Relieved that an incident like this was (a) reported (b) investigated and (c) learned from. It's a sign of a healthy safety culture and responsible crew. Safety advances should be written in blood pressure spikes, not in lost blood.
and (d) non-injurious, though this should come before (a)!
@@johnburgess2084 Non-injured is the status before A, so it would be a -A,
nicely said at the end
Great comment. Just Culture concept is a hot topic in the UK and needs pushing globally.
I'm stealing your blood pressure line!
I'm not a pilot but I watch this series of videos every chance I get. My personal interest is in accident analysis and understanding how errors happen. These lessons learned have application in many, many areas of our lives. Thank you, Petter, for an outstanding line-up of informative videos. Cheers from British Columbia, Canada.
I agree. I am a software engineer and I work for a financial company which has many customers. Recently, our team delivered a functionality which had a defect in it and affected many customers. In such cases, we have to do a Root Cause Analysis. Since I was the developer by which this defect was caused, I had to give my report and I noticed that I followed Mentour Pilot's way of analysis. I even included the swiss cheese model in my report. The managers were intrigued by that.
Great comment! I agree as well that the lessons derived from these incidents have applications in many areas of life. I am intrigued by how the slightest seemingly minor decision can bring about such a drastic result in many of these cases. Also, the relationship dynamic is key. It is important for every player to feel free to speak up and that their input is welcome. A friendly, non-intimidating environment is critical in any workplace.
Finally, I've noticed also that many of these crashes were a result of cutting costs, or inadequate maintenance. It is truly sad that so many lives have been lost for these kinds of oversights and considerations.
@@cbesthelper404 Absolute rubbish. ..
Unsubstantiated excuses, speculation and opinion.....
Not fact.
Fact.....
This crew could not fly....
You are only as good as your last flight.
This should be their last flight.
For the sake of the travelling public.
This most mortem and recent experience driving one leads me to ask: Should airplanes have inattention detectors like Teslas do? And when should airplanes have full autopilot? I guess never according to any selfish pilot or pilot's union...
Good point. I'm in IT and find the analysis and understanding approach very helpful.
It's good that he emphasizes how rapidly the situation deteriorated. I get the impression sometimes from viewers who watch these air crash investigation-type videos that they're critical of how "long" it took for the crews to react to a developing emergency, when really these things often happen in a matter of seconds. Just because the video/documentary is taking the time to detail every (mis)step leading up to the crash, doesn't mean that's how long it took in real time.
Absolutely!
Actually, if you look at some of his earlier investigation videos, there is a simulator recreation of the real-time progression of the accident. Like u said, It’s amazing how quickly things happen, and interesting how seemingly on-pace explanations of the event are still much slower.
I wish all air-crash video viewers were as amazing as you!
@@aviationandotherstuff6571 I wonder why he stopped doing that. I thought it was pretty nice to get a picture of the real timeline. Maybe a lot of viewers would skip that part and the youtube algorithm penalizes him because it thinks people were leaving early because they were getting bored by the video?
I was amazed when I watched Mentour's video on the Sullenberger "Miracle on the Hudson" flight. The explanation was thorough, and took maybe 15 or 20 minutes. But then he showed a recreation of the flight with actual ATC audio, and it was amazingly short. I don't remember exactly, but I think it was maybe only a minute or less from the geese impacting the engines to landing on the Hudson.
I get the impression that you’re actually referencing yourself when you say “viewers”…
@MentourPilot thanks for covering this one! I was in Maui at the time, and some of my friends were flying in. All said it was the most intense flying experience they had ever had.. I wanted to add as someone who flies into and out of this airport regularly, that runway 20 is often used in "Kona" or southerly winds, and that storm was one of the worst we had had in years.. Kona winds usually come more often during the winter time.. and as a student pilot who flies a 172, I love it because it takes off over the valley and they are far more options for an emergency landing than runway 02.. which is trees and ocean .. not as relevant to a 777 but thought you may find it interesting! Runway 20 is used maybe 4-8 times a year on average
I've been in a plane taking off in a storm. I could tell that the crew set the speed for full throttle and held it that way until they got above the turbulence. I felt the plane get bumped pretty good, but I'm guessing since the plane was pointed slightly upward to climb and had the throttle cranked up the plane handled it very well.
I was grateful the pilot decided to handle it this way. I know it puts a little more wear on the engines and uses more fuel, but it's rare I feel comfortable landing or taking off near a storm, and because I could tell what the pilot was doing I didn't worry about those downdrafts pushing the nose down and I never felt that happen. And yes it was nice getting above that storm quickly and then I hear the engines spin down a little and there was then clear sky and a nice smooth ride.
So thank you to the pilots that handle that situation this way.
First of all they should never even take off in such conditions to begin with. This was also not noted by mentour pilot in this video
Hi guys, I'm flying as a 777 captain in Seoul, Korea.
Personally, I would like to commend the United Airlines captain for his appropriate response.
Because all of us with flying experience know that any pilot can find himself in an unexpected situation.
If that situation was not what the captain had intended, I think the captain handled it well in a situation that could not have been expected. As you all know, the B777 engine is powerful enough, so if you are in manual flight, you must use appropriate trim during acceleration. Otherwise, it shows a powerful tendency to pitch up with increased speed.
However, the video shows that the situation got worse due to the pitch-down during the climb. Due to the sudden increase in speed, the Nose Up Pressure would have been felt very strongly. Afterwards, as it reaches the acceleration altitude, the climb power decreases and flaps up and out of the wind shear area, causing a sudden increase in speed. It appears to have changed to Pitch Down.
It is believed that the captain, who had to scan many things simultaneously, such as adverse weather, ATC, flap instructions, and instrument monitors like speed significant change, lost situational awareness for just a few seconds due to the suddenly increased workload. The unintentional nose-down occurred, probably because of the down-trim the captain set a few seconds ago to protect the pitch up high with significant speed increases. It is believed that the nose-down occurred in an instant.
As a fellow pilot, I respect the captain who completed the flight safely without panicking in such a situation and without losing focus on the mission. If a pilot flew safely until the end, he accomplished his mission and could review any mistakes later on the ground.
...always good to have the viewpoints of senior professionals like yourself
Why do you think he was handflying?
I don't believe you are a pilot. ..
As a pilot I think his lack of competent intrument scanning during departure in a perfectly serviceable aircraft was totally unacceptable.
He completely lost it at a critical part of the departure.
Nobody said it was an easy job..
That is NOT panicking ????
Excuses....excuses..
I thought standards in Korean Air had improved !!
@@daftvader4218- I also agree with you. This is utter incompetence from the pilots, both of them. A big thing was made of the Captain only having 300 hours PIC. Surely the other 4700 hours on the 777 taught him something? Apparently not.
The 777 windshear configuration can use flap 15, so no problem there. Engage the autopilot at 500ft and let the plane fly itself. Much easier to have 2 pilots monitoring. The autopilot wouldn’t have oversped the flaps. VNAV SPD pitches for speed, so it would have maintained 5kts below the flap limit speed. If you want more margin than 5kts then use speed intervention. Even a 500 hour FO would know this about the 777.
There is absolutely *nothing* to commend here. This was a pilot-induced close call that never should have happened. Everyone on board is lucky to be alive today. Pity, the pilots names were redacted in the NTSB report.
In my flight sim, flying a Kodiak (don't remember which one) I have twice looked away at my kid messing around with a hot stove, almost crashed twice with a vertical speed of 996
At my work unloading lorries I have looked away at my boss trying to show me paperwork and once almost destroyed a pallet with goods worth about 230K Euros
At home I have been distracted while handling electrical tools and almost cut my left hands fingers
Walking across the street when I was younger I have not seen a bus fast approaching who thankfully stamped on the brakes while I at the last moment ran out to the curb
My lesson is always keep your attention in one place and do not start with demanding tasks while not having finished less demanding tasks
Never underestimate this, it can cost you dearly.
Very nice incident report otherwise, it is so valuable when you guys teach people through such videos. Top presentation as usual!
Well that doesn't sound very encouraging or reassuring for nervous flyers I would say
How are you still alive!? 😂
Bit complacent aren’t you. Maybe you should give these things the respect they deserve in the future and you might just reduce your blood pressure and live a bit longer.
How true..driving distracted killed my 28 year old daughter, Ellen. The driver was on his phone looking at FB messenger. She was cycling in Iowa.
And think about all the people texting and driving.
I'm an electrical engineer for medical technology in Germany and I love investigating a fault on a critical machine (human lives affected), why it did happen, how it did and what can be done to fix and avoid the fault/malfunction.
Watching your detailed and fascinating videos makes me overthink my job career and rather become an aircraft engineer. :D
Thank you so much for your amazing work Petter! You are really making impacts on people in many different ways. :)
Really appreciate your thoughtful and detailed approach to these incidents. Speculation was rampant before the final report came out including stuff like "the captain was an overbearing jerk that spent the whole time berating the FO instead of paying attention", thank you for clearing this all up. After watching all these videos I've found myself not jumping so quickly to finger-pointing blame game conclusions and asking myself "but why?" and "what could have led up to this?" more often in my every day life. Thanks for another great episode!
👍
Well blame is never helpful, but 10 seconds is a very long time for a PIC to not be flying the aircraft, no matter the cause (close your eyes and count it out, then ask whether you would drive like that). Without the voice recorder we cannot be sure, but I would put money on him being fixated on the flap mistake, and 'aggressively querying' his FO on it. Possibly he did spent the whole 10 seconds berating the FO*, but while 10 seconds is a long time to not be paying attention to fast moving vehicle, it is pretty short for a berating. While a cockpit squabble could have been part of this, I don't think you could extend that to any sort of generalisation about the crew.
Glad the backup systems (bitchin betty) did their job, but this seems like a crew meltdown, and I actually hope it was because of a squabble. A PIC ignoring the aircraft for no reason would be a far more worrying situation than one who got distracted by their FOs mistake.
* A FO who was presumably disrespectfully not apologising on account of being distracted by the fact that they were crashing into the sea.
@@agsystems8220 I think you're missing the part where we as humans experience tunnel vision. The PIC was probably observing the speed as well as any other flap related instruments while being in a slight state of confusion. 10 seconds of slight confusion with a pitch down is enough for such a thing to happen.
@@agsystems8220 Some communications require verbal confirmation. PIC "Flaps 5" -F/O "Flaps 5". if no "Flaps 5" is confirmed, PIC will say ""Flaps 5" and the flaps 15 is now 5, and confirmed with F/O's verbal "Flaps 5." That's just some protocol. Redundancy is a friend.
@@dusteyezz784 No, I just would have hoped that tunnel vision in the event of a technical issue would be specifically trained against, while tunnel vision due to being pissed off at your FO's error might not. For one reason or another the PIC stopped flying the aircraft for 10 seconds, can we agree on that? If training is good then that should not happen in the event of a flap malfunction, whether technical or human factors related.
If the flaps had jammed instead of been mis-set, would this have happened? If you are correct, and the answer is yes, then that is more worrying to me than it being a pure human factors issue where the PIC was distracted by the FO's mistake, rather the results of that mistake. The distinction is important to me.
I guess the question I have is this: why don’t commercial pilots do what submariners do? Captain: “Flaps 5”; FO: “Flaps 15”; Captain: “Negative, flaps 5”; FO: “Flaps 5”. I’ve watched several videos of mishaps where one of the pilots misheard, assumed, or wondered silently why the other was doing or asking for something but either did it anyway or said nothing. This feels like something avoidable, no?
Hi Seant
That is exactly what professionals do in the best airlines...it's SOP...
CRM here was appalling. ..
Later the Captain did call "Flap 5" twice again and had no confirmation from the FO. Not sure he should then override the FO and set the flap himself, if it is physically possible.
Also saying "zero-five" rather than just "five"
I've noted that difference, more typically between the aircraft and ATC, as I'm a sub veteran too. in response to another comment, I don't think CRM was appalling, as this happened very quickly, and both crew members had their hands full. I do question how "five" and "fifteen" can be confused, with different vowel sounds and number of syllables. I think more likely the FO was just anticipating "flaps 15" and heard what he thought. Had captain not looked over, they may still have experienced the flaps overspeed anyway, but probably without the severe height/pitch excursion.
They should shouldn't they?
I'm a Hawaiian Airlines pilot (captain).. and with regard to the other incident mentioned, I can say without any doubt that the pilot of the A330 that same day did everything he was supposed to but encountered that severe turbulence completely by surprise .. there was no indication of any convective weather on the radar nor visually just prior to the incident.
I’m with AS. Anytime we fly into Maui the passengers are informed right before approach that there could be unexpected winds and turbulence upon approach and landing
My heart aches for you guys; talk about a high stress job! Thank you for keeping calm under pressure over and over again and getting us safely where we need to be. My husband flies constantly for business and I don't worry at all because of you guys and the seemingly insurmountable odds you overcome or try to overcome in these incredible videos this channel creates. You would think these stories would make me worry more, not less but they don't honestly. I see how most of the pilots are by FAR extremely competent to the point of being heroes. Thank you for keeping him safe!
@@wednesday8397unfortunately you can't half ass being a pilot because it is harder to crash only the back of the plane than not at all. One of the few times you as a customer are guaranteed a full effort, at least in regards to safety. Don't get that with lawyers, doctors, or plumbers.
@@justcommenting4981 how right you are!
Also, that HA flight with all the injuries was going into HNL, which is not Maui as Petter said.
Man if only everybody had such a rational logical approach to situations instead of just pointing the finger immediately. You sir are a gem.
Wow the animation in your videos keeps getting better and better. Down to the first person view of the pilots walking through the airport. You and your team truly deserve all your success!
Can't wait for the Hawaiian flight video. Love the precision and factuality of your videos. I don't think anyone does it better
That’s what I’m going for!! Thank you so much!
I agree 100% nobody does a better job covering these incidents than Mentour.
I appreciate him too
@@MentourPilot Ha ha love your description of it was definitely first officer weather for the walk around😂 I did a small amount of private flying in New Zealand some years ago end and our aero club was used after work by the regional airline pilots. one of the captains used to have funny comments like that (Brian Bedwell was his name I think he flies for emirates or Royal Brunei )his other one was a funny take on CRM he used to say to new first officers: this is what the letters in Crm mean-together we are the crew ,you are my resource ,and I am management,with a cheeky grin on his face
@@MentourPilot- the 777 trims for speed, not pitch. On take off the aircraft is trimmed for V2+15, so a pilot has to pitch towards 15° nose up, let the aircraft settle, and then it is possible to let go of the controls.
For the overspeed protection, any exceedance of Vmo/Mmo produces reverse pressure in the controls by the AFDS. To overspeed the 777 you have to actively fight the controls and continuously push the controls. It most definitely isn’t a case of letting go of the controls, whilst looking away, and the aircraft self initiates a nose dive. The AFDS just doesn’t do this.
In this incident, to get 10° nose down and continued overspeed, the Captain is actively flying the aircraft into this position. He was fighting against the aircraft itself.
Would closed loop communication have avoided this?
Cap: "Flaps 5"
FO: 'Flaps 15 selected"
Cap: "No flaps 5"
FO: "Oh, selecting flaps 5 now. Flaps 5."
Great idea.
Even closed loop can break sometimes, in particular when words are sounds a bit close or in noisy environments (like a cockpit under heavy rain...), but indeed it divides the error probability by about 2.
Airbus uses this closed loop
@@VergilAckerman Always used closed loop on radio nets. Even then, it's not error free.
@@elnalaombrebois5665 Yeah, I can easily imagine a situation where the FO sets flaps 5 but repeats "flaps 15" because that's what he heard (The ear-to-mouth path in the brain is an easy situation to get into if it isn't properly and periodically drilled into you that you don't say what you hear but what you do). That said, it does add another layer to that swiss cheese model thing.
I think I have a lot more respect for pilots knowing all the things that are going on on the flight deck even before weather/miscommunication/chaos adds to the mix. It's nice to know that we can have good endings when things go pear-shaped instead of being caught up in the doom scrolling. Lessons were learned, thankfully in this case without fatalities. While I can be glad there are extraordinary pilots that can save a plane from extreme problems (engine flame out/gliders) I am far more comforted by the integrity of the pilots who reported the event voluntarily even after recovery. That gives me hope.
A good pilot never gets in a position where he has to prove what a good pilot he is....
Well yeah
Bad weather always stresses me out as a passenger, even though I've flown countless times now. I really appreciate how the crews performed during some very rough weather situations. These videos, and others like them, have given me considerable insight into what is going on in the cockpit. Thanks.
As a materials and mechanical engineer who has had a only "few" aerospace projects, I am overly impressed with goosebumps the level of detail you go to. To a level that I can promise you actual aerospace engineers that designed the airplane would probably have to re-read and re-study the fundamentals to even come to know all the kinetic dynamics going on, and for you to explain it in the way you do......my *wannabe captain's* hats off to you Captain Mentour :D impressive. thorough. insightful. technically proficient. wow
As an aerospace engineer (propulsion systems), I agree with you 100% on the level of simplicity with enough details in his explanations. Love this channel.
@@tigerrx7 exactly. My father has a PhD in MechE Engineering with concentration in Combustion and a master in Aerospace and undergrad in france's ElectroMechanical Engineering (EE mixed with ME) and his PhD is CONCENTRATED on scramjet propulsion and his dissertation was confidential in the 1990s and I sent him this video and have yet his take on this video yet and trust me when he has a chance to flex his knowledge, he will lol haha I remember the countless hours as a child on campus with him watch at the time I thought was just a big fireball for hours lol. Lo and behold, that's what got his American citizenship because it was a.. I hope I can share this... DoD Confidential project. Lol
@@ONLYFACT_X lemme guess, it involved a Skunky work and a lake that was groomed. ;)
Ran into some of their works over the decades, well, I would've ran into them, had they existed.
Sometimes it just feels scary how quickly a situation can escalate making your position very bad. To be honest when I saw the 10 degree pitch-down at thirteen hundred feet I was expecting your saying "unfortunately it was too late". Other than that, great video and can't wait for next week's. It's always a great excitement when I get the notification! Love from a 14 yo Greek hoping to become a pilot some day.
Your English is 👌🏽👍🇬🇷
Thank you!!!@@martinmillar8447
People become more educated by watching these videos, but maybe also more humble thanks to your excellent explanations and understanding in how the human mind and performance is affected by fatigue, distraction and stress.
I've gained understanding of the complex human and mechanical (and conditional) factors that can cause incidents like this, so I don't just jump to conclusions. That's value!
I’m glad you mentioned Juan Browne’s video on this. He also did an excellent breakdown of this incident and he also recreated it in MFS. When you see just how freaking quick things go sideways it throws the whole thing into a new light. Kudos to you Petter for the continued excellence on this great channel!!
I can’t find this video
@@daniellepatton2665Search Blancolirio
Usually, in fixed wing aircraft, an emergency is something one can first take time out to wind their watch. This was more like rotary wing, where split second correct responses are critical.
Which typically only occur at low altitude in both cases. Makes sense, as one cannot crash into the air, but one can crash into the ground or water.
Many years ago, I got fooled briefly by a false horizon. Instruments conflicted with my vision and common sense prevailed and I relied on instruments and halted a hard climb before there was a problem.
To this day, I'll trust instruments over my senses, save if oh, the great wide world is about to smack me in the face and instruments say otherwise, then I'll go for getting the world out of my view and sky prominent in my view, then figure out whatinhell is wrong with my otherwise more reliable instruments.
At 5:46 @MentourPilot says winds were from a southerly direction but shows the direction as 340.
I flew that day on a 717 from ITO to HNL. I've flown dozens of times between the islands as I'm born and raised here. As such, I've never flown through a storm like that and it was the 1st time I was scared to be in am airplane. The turbulence was next level but it's a good thing that the 717 is built like a tank! I have a bunch of lightning vids from this flight that I'll upload one day. Literally, lightning on all sides of the plane, and you could see how towering the clouds were with each flash. Had to been 30 to 40 thousand feet high.
Where’s the video?
She got you! Fell for that nonsense hook, line and stinker! There's some lunacy related to the Internet where random losers like to pretend "and you were there". The closest mixed-up-nutt has been to an airplane is when she remembers that "waiting at the liquor store 40 ounces to freedom so" she takes that walk and looks through the fence.
@19thnervousbreakdown80 Yeah, ok buddy 🤙🤣
@@fernandocoronato4222 On my phone? 🤷🏽
@19thnervousbreakdown80 Also, I literally work for an airline. Moron 🤣🤣🤣
FIrst off, I am thankful for ALL the safe plane journeys I've ever made (including one very bumpy landing in Bangalore when a tire burst upon hitting the runway).
I am immensely thankful for all the pilots and crews' hard and careful work. They deserve our appreciation!!! Everyone is so quick to criticise when something goes wrong --- but do you ever think about the incredible responsibility pilots have?
When you think about all the things that could possibly go wrong (any combination of technical issues, human error, weather conditions), then we should all be thankful for each safe landing, and NEVER take it for granted.
I do not mind uncomfortable seats, smelly lavatories, screaming babies (or adults!!) .... ALL I want is to land safely at destination.
THANK YOU TO ALL THE PILOTS AND CREW OUT THERE!!
When i first had about this story i was truely shocked on how quickly things could escalate...thank God no one lost their lives
They were 5 seconds away from crashing
I seriously wish there were more content creators out there like you! The production quality is truly amazing
Green dot aviation is another great channel!
@@Nick51100 Yeah I watch that channel ;)
@@Shauryaaya curious pilot ? Check him out aswell
I like how you speak with authority and from being an active pilot yourself.
Keep it up!
I do what i can. Glad to hear that you liked it!
@@Capecodhamno IS at Ryanair I believe
Except that he has missed the obvious stuff about the flight control automation in the 777 and how this situation was created solely by the Captain who was fighting against the aircraft and it’s flight envelope protections.
Petter, your work has always been top-notch but the improvement and expansion of ground models has not gone unnoticed! Loved the look inside the airport.
This series is very well made. Even a lay person can get thorough and fascinating look into what a commercial airline pilot faces on the job. These people really deserve high compensation.
Given the care you put into this and the constant improvement on what is already the best aviation channel on you tube. I would gladly fly with you any day. Once I get my commercial that is. lol
You never know 😉
Same
@@MentourPilot This is the second time I've heard you mention Juan Browne. I bet a lot of people know who he is without knowing the name. If anyone watched any footage of the Oroville Dam Spillway failure in 2017, they probably saw Juan's updates (including personal flyovers) on his "Blancolirio" RUclips channel. Considering I live 30 minutes downstream and Juan is just up the hill in Grass Valley, I've become a huge fan of his. He was even doing the announcing at the STOL races at the Reno Air Races this week. Very cool that my two favorite pilot channels are friends. You are going to have to visit NorCal someday. Just beware of our seasons: Summer and Fire. (yep, there are only two)
@ronjones-6977 kinda reminds me of Minnesota in a way. We only have two seasons as well, only ours are Winter and Road Construction.
@@ronjones-6977summer and Fire? You didn’t see Juan keeping track of how many feet of snow he had last year?
I hear ya though. Am in the same area and too many days of over 100 makes it seem like summer and fire. 😂
Great job covering this, Petter. IMO, they’re both good pilots that just had a mishap. They recovered the plane, and properly reported it. It obviously could have ended up bad, but instead highlighted a flaw and led to good changes in training.
Well I do not know about good changes in training but it was good to report it and recheck the flaps.
A lot of these videos show a very large amount of over complicating common flight practices which causes mistakes from the pilots. Unfortunately that is how those gov agencies expand. More rules, regulations, laws = bigger funding, bigger buildings, more employees and so on. You bet your butt ever single time they check something they are adding more red tape even if its not needed or is not even helpful. In my day we had next to none of this. I do not know how pilots in these commercial planes handle all this garbage. They are truly something else.
@@bobshanery5152 Sure, the government never helps anything, and I can certainly agree with most of what you’re saying. The 1,500 hour rule came about from a crash where both pilots had well over 1,500 hours, so nobody knows where the government even came up with that nonsense. But this incident did lead to better training at the airline, as stated in this and other sources on this incident
@thetowndrunk ; if the government never helped anything, we'd have pilots without licences, car drivers with no licences, no speed limits, no stop signs, and people carrying automatic weapons in Walmart...
@@lohikarhu734 think you’re taking my statement a bit too literally…..
And FYI, I carry my semi auto pistol into Walmart every single time I shop…..
@thetowndrunk988 would you feel naked going to a supermarket in other countries? I mean there are no guns around to carry around.
Friday upload we struck lucky today
Yes indeed
Aye. We did
Yes!
Indeed we did.
I thought it was an old one and nearly passed it by😳
I was so relieved to hear that nobody got hurt. Everybody was briefed in advance and expecting some kind of trouble from the weather... I think the passengers expected a rough ride in these conditions anyway.
A miscommunication under pressure - can happen to anyone.
Thanks for the video!
"A miscommunication under pressure..?" See a comment above referring to the procedure that submariners use, and is SOP for the best airlines, where orders are repeated back and confirmed verbally, ie "Captain: “Flaps 5”; FO: “Flaps 5." If, especially during challenging situations, this procedure is used, then incidents like this could happen a lot less.
Tbh, as long as they weren’t scared I think the lift feeling from the G’s would have been awesome. Hopefully they couldn’t see the water and grasp what was happening
It's wild how close we can come to total disaster in such a short moment in time. 10 seconds is nothing! Just glad everyone was okay. Great video, Petter and team!
I love "disaster" shows, but not because I take joy in watching catastrophe. I want to understand how and why the event unfolded, and the analysis of what we did/n't do that affected the outcome. I deeply appreciate that when choosing incidents to cover, the Mentour team give as much consideration to _educational potential_ as they do for how "exciting" the story might be. Those "exciting" (read: macabre) stories and lessons are so important, but they are not the whole picture. Near misses like this video are lessons, too--with none of the tragedy and all of the learning opportunity. Besides, I find near misses every bit as interesting to watch and learn about as the catastrophes. I love my mainstream disaster documentaries, but they just don't cover events like the one in this video (as much as I wish they would!). Mentour Pilot channel is always a breath of fresh air.
Great video Petter and crew ! Take your eyes off the road for a second and you could take a bike rider out. Very easy to do. Thank you for your detailed analysis. Everyone ( pilots and non pilots )should learn from this one
A lack of bike lanes in your area. There should be made some. It's a safe solution.
@@charisma-hornum-friesYeah they probably drive somewhere like residental streets or country roads in the Netherlands.
A bike rider? So a bicyclist?
I am a current 777 pilot. I think it’s important to not just focus on the ‘what’ (the ‘first story) but also the ‘why’ (the ‘second’ story).
There are a few things that strike me as odd in this account.
Splitting the NDs between Terrain and Weather inhibits pop up wind shear advisories for the pilot on Terrain. In such severe weather conditions this could leave to confusion about an avoidance manoeuvre.
The departure was clearly going to be a high workload situation; strange why the AP wasn’t used as a mitigating factor.
In the event of a flap over speed the 777 has flap overspend protection. In the event that Vmo is exceeded the aircraft will also seek to correct the flight path in certain circumstances; naturally without the AP engaged this would merely be presented as a FD command.
These things give us insight into the systemic culture within UA of operating this aircraft which is interesting. The pilots are a product of the system.
No pilot wants to hear a EGPWS pull up caution (although increasingly this is happening as a result of GPS jamming in Asia)
Terrific item as always, thought provoking for all. As you say, things develop very quickly and potentially could happen to any of us.
Great question there. I myself wondered why the AP wasn't coupled as soon as they could, especially is you say that so many automated levels of protection become muted. Why try to hand fly in those horrendous conditions?
@@josephdefreitas56 because it doesn't need to be... this "couple the AP" culture, though, seems to be a mantra in the middle east (and Cathay). There was a screwup on this UA flight, but "manual flight" wasn't it.
@@nunya-d2tif you’re telling me this would have happened during flight under AP, i will assume you’re just a sim “pilot”
@@muru3xi I'm telling you manual flight in these conditions isn't a big deal until someone stops doing their job. In any case, the AP isn't a crutch - I've seen the reports for how much it overspeeds and how poorly the AT really maintains airspeed control in gusty conditions. Though assume all you want (don't you know that just makes an "ass" out of "u" and "me"?)... my 3000+ hours in the left seat of the 777 alone say different.
@@nunya-d2t would you, as someone with so many hours on the left hand seat of the 777, hand fly in weather like this with a fresh f/o acting as PM? you’re basically saying i can do everything by myself. he’s handicapped as it is, don’t make his job harder by trying to be the cool guy.
One thing I love about your series is that you focus as much on what went right (after something went wrong) as what went wrong in the first place. Yes mistakes happen in every line of work and most often are dealt with, without major consequences. The same is true in the airline industry as well. It is just that most “air crash” series focus on the failures than the far more prevalent successes. Thank you.
Mentour Pilot is hands down the best aviation safety channel on YT.
I was looking for a specific accident when I found this channel...I never left because the quality of content on this channel is superb.
Not an accident, thankfully, it's only an incident with no injuries.
Your usual exellence. You and Juan are my most viewed aviation experts on YT. I got a big kick out of your endorsement. I'm of marginal expertise being a low time PP, but a flyboy geek since falling in love with books about Orville and Wilbur when I was a boy. I was on a dual rated rotorcraft/fixed wing CFI track and have kept my head in the biz off and on over the years. Airshow geek too. Anyway, fwiw, you and Juan are capital T trusted experts and I admire the work you do. Its so valuable to the industry....just for starters. And theres that huge saving lives thing!
Thanks again and make sure you get your R&R in. Your work ethic is insane dude. Both you guys! Lol.
Safe flyin'!
I live just down the hill from Juan and he is my go-to source for anything to do with aircraft, wildfires, and floods in our area. The man is a resource of the highest value.
Thank you very much for your balanced approach to reporting on incidents like this. Well done again!
You know when you're with your friends and something terrible nearly happens - you all look at each other - imagine how these pilots reacted after they'd stabilised... wow 😮
I remember a 360 degree spin on an icy road over 35 years ago. I was in the back seat of a Honda Civic with three other college friends. We all just sat there catching our breath before congratulating our very shaken, but skilled, driver.
I once had a similar aircraft related incident looking away momentarily, to observe the path of a BA 777. When i looked forward again i realised i could not avoid a collusion. Fortunately the impact was slight and there was no major damage.
I should add that i was in my car in stationary traffic on the M25 near Heathrow Airport. 😂
This has happened to me (recently). Had it not been for the GPWS I might not have noticed the change in attitude. I became fixated during a nighttime IFR departure on an engine power change and within seconds I lost situational awareness, Seconds. Thank you for the insight and analysis.
These videos are getting sick. The animations, the level of details, how the info is structured and even the sounds, make these videos very pleasant to watch.
Possibly / probably meant 'slick' ? @@Capecodham
On the contrary, I can feel a continuous process of healing.
@@Capecodham what Squirrel2000 said. "Sick" used in that context means really good.
Not sure what words that generation uses to express illness though 😁
@@paulgrey8028 In Australia I believe it's "crook" for sick, so think of the confusion that could cause! 😆
Sick? Please don't use slang known primarily in your own country. It confuses the heck out of the rest of us.I rushed to my pharmacy to buy some medication to cure the videos.
I love MP videos. So informative and thorough.
I have two takeaways from this one, and it’s based on a very correct observation that takeoffs/landings are an extremely chaotic and increasingly complex sequence and “things happen fast”. Truer statements were never made. That’s why I love love Mentour.
1). Why do Tower ATC hand off the radios so quickly and force pilots to divert their attention and change freqs right in the middle of the most critical/complex time? Technology should certainly be able to help this by now. We’ve had radios for 100 years and we’ve not done a thing to reduce the distraction factor on the pilots so they can keep their focus on the plane and instruments where they belong. Both procedurally and with technology they can preprogram two frequencies into a radio and do a quick-change and a simplified read back and save very valuable seconds and distractions. The buttons in a 1965 Chevy had presets and we could punch a button in less than 1/4 second without having to look down. A 2023 Boing needs to do it manually? Doesn’t make any sense to me.
2) No cockpit voice recording was available to investigators because the memory was overwritten by the time they landed? For what possible reason can we have for not having memory chips inside the CVR to carry a full long distance flight on any aircraft? These planes cost tens if not hundred millions of dollars and they can’t afford to buy and ruggedize a big enough memory chip to record the full flight? That’s just silly in my opinion and as an engineer myself, it makes me shake my head.
1) Pilots can preselect the next frequency and will typically have the departure frequency ready to switch once the tower says so. But you have to be told when to switch and acknowledge before doing so
2) You can’t just stick any data recording device in a plane. These are specialises ones designed to withstand thousands of G’s, over 30 mins at 1000 degrees and 30 days underwater
@@tomstravels520- re: 2
True, the actual "black box" is a specialized and expensive piece of equipment, but except for privacy there is nothing that prevent a plane from having a simpler and cheaper auxiliary recording device that could store communication for weeks.
@@JanBruunAndersen that is the reason. Privacy, it’s the main reason the pilot unions are against cameras in the cockpit. Nobody wants to be on film all day and have their managers listen in and watch their every move
@@tomstravels520 I would certainly appreciate the privacy concerns. However there have to be safeguards already in place that dictate exactly who and for what purpose CVR recordings are allowed to be reviewed. And of course, memory devices in CVRs are specialized, but trust me, they make them much bigger in exactly the same form factor and specs. I work with similar technology each day.
"Definitely the weather for First Officer walk-around."
I wonder how Kelsey feels about that?!! 😂
I’m a 777 FO under line training, first thing my sim instructor taught me is in these types of circumstances is to engage the AP sooner than later. This could’ve prevented all this from happening. Glad they all walked away safe.
I don’t know anything about flying, but do you mean they could engage it when they were at 800’ and it could correct more quickly or efficiently than the Captain pulling up?
@@TheEmaile in the 777 you can actually engage the AP at 200 feet! In cases like this it will significantly reduce the work load and none of this would happen.
@@TheEmaileyou can engage the auto pilot if there’s no effort on the command column . Assuming that , the plane sinking with such a vertical speed, it would have been too late. And btw, the pull up manoeuvre has to be performed manually. (Wind shear escape manoeuvre can be performed with autopilot)
I’ve flown my first hours of B777 23 years ago. At that time, in my airline, there was not all choices of flaps for take off. Flaps 20 for take off was not possible. For many years now, with the OPT APP (onboard performance tool) , the setting for calculation is “flap optimum”, and in certain circonstances like this event, the better performance is calculated with FLAPS20. But it’s not usual (on the airports I use to fly), so I add to my take off briefing that the flaps retraction sequence is 20 then 5, I try to remind that to my FOs.
I'd just like to mention (relevant to what you say at 3:20) that the 777 *does* actually compensate for thrust and configuration changes when the Flight Control System is in normal mode.
From the FCOM: "Airplane pitch responses to thrust changes, gear configuration changes, and turbulence are automatically minimized by PFC control surface commands. The PFCs also provide compensation for flap and speedbrake configuration changes, and turns up to 30° of bank. The PFCs automatically control pitch to maintain a relatively constant flight path. This eliminates the need for the pilot to make control column inputs to compensate for these factors." (I suppose the key word there is 'minimised', but from practical experience, configuration and thrust changes are indeed considerably reduced, if not downright gone, compared to the 737 for example)
The major difference to Airbus is the change from flight path stability to speed stability. So the 777 is trimmed in pitch for a specific airspeed, and deviations from the system 'trimmed' airspeed result in a typical natural pitch up or down (ie. slower than trimmed speed, nose drops, faster than trimmed speed, nose rises).
So an airbus compensates for all, an old plane compensates for none of that, Boeing decided to go half some half not.... Also how do you compensate for thrust but not for speed? Increase in thrust means increase in speed unless you're climbing that steep
@@tomstravels520 - there is a different philosophy between Boeing and Airbus. I’ve never flown Airbus but the 777 is exceptionally easy to fly if you know what you’re doing. If you don’t then it’s Asiana 214 or AF11 for you. I’m sure Airbus is easy to fly as well, considering it’s technological differences to Boeing. From my companies safety reports it’s clear that people make the mistakes, for the most part, and bugger up approaches or decisions, etc.
Thanks again for talking about serious incidents that aren't just crashes. It sets you apart from many other channels that just end up being disaster porn.
It's just WORTHY OF NOTE here to remember, in the case of ANY kind of "overspeed", pitching UP will at least mitigate, and at best eliminate the problem for the time being. The obvious second-phase/step would be throttle adjustment... It's only a temporary thing, but during take-off/climb out, while you're sorting out flap condition between what it's "supposed to be" and what it "really is", there's an easy few seconds to a minute you can just trade speed for altitude and recover relatively well... Might exceed what ATC asked you to get, but it beats the hell out of CFIT any day of the year, and in my opinion (humble or not so much) it's a fine and tongue lashing from a chief pilot that I'll be happy to live long enough to see... especially if I manage to do so without breaking the plane. ;o)
Are you a pilot? You sound very knowledgeable.
@@desertstar223 "Experimentals" (aka "Ultralights")... They require the least certification (both the aircraft and pilot) and as long as you're strict about sticking to the free airspaces, you CAN get hours off the ground without a license at all... BUT one really SHOULD go ahead and get into a program and follow the courses as with any such hobby and/or sport. It's not too ridiculously expensive, and a decent aircraft CAN haul you and a little cargo (think go-kart or motorcycle cargo capacity equivalent-ish) for about the cost of a decent car...
Before even that, I grew up on two wheels, and I still practically live to ride motorcycles. It might seem exciting and action-packed from the side, but once the skills are developed, it's actually more like a slow-dance with a world-class professional dancer. She always knows the steps better than you, and all you really NEED is to let her know what you want, and then LET HER do it. It's probably the most difficult thing for students to "get", but it's amazing when you finally relax and quit making your own life harder on yourself... haha...
BUT there's a lot of overlap to piloting. I couldn't get my ass off the ground alone if I tried... SO it's kind of all up to the plane. They are designed to fly, after all... just like bikes are actually designed to be ridden.
In any case, it just doesn't really do anything helpful to bash what others did, or take the figurative piss out of their already sh*tty day... In the moment, when we're going to struggle to function at all, it's just more helpful to look at how very basic we can cut to the core of our skillset and do the least to accomplish the best resolve possible... even step-by-step... maybe especially step-by-step. It's part of how I continue to study up on riding motorcycles, too, and I've been doing that legal on the road for over 30 years. ;o)
Been a fan a long time now and even though this has been covered extensively on other aviation channels I still always get excited when a new videos of yours comes out. Really great stuff 👍🏻.
Thanks!
Thank you so much!
I HAVE WATCHED 23 SECONDS AND THIS IS PURE TALENT THIS DESERVER A MOVIE THEATER
Great video as always.
As you've mentioned, a "similar" thing happened to me while driving on the highway. I've turned my eyes away from the road to adjust the climate control and when I laid my eyes back on the road again, half of car the was into the other lane. And this was only for like 5-10 seconds. Luckily there were no other cars near mine and good thing this was not on a two lane road with incoming traffic. Took my lesson there to keep my eyes on the road.
This is absolutely terrifying. The stress and workload in the cockpit in such a short space of time, wow!
I had only 2 seconds to push nose down in an engine failuer during start. There was no more secound left, becouse stall and death. There was no time for fear.
@@QuaxC42 yeah, out of altitude, speed and ideas, there is no time. Afterward, it's code brown time, but not during.
The most heartbreaking words I've heard from a CVR were, "Tell my wife that I love her very much", followed immediately by the sound of the aircraft breaking apart.
The production quality of these videos is incredible. Way better than anything out there and anything that ever was produced. Thank you!
Your point on what can happen in 10 seconds of looking away while driving is so important to remember.
In 10 seconds a toddler can get loose from his mother and run in front of your car, in 10 seconds someone can run a red light into an intersection you are turning on to and end up in front of you, in 10 seconds a person coming the other way can have their replaced left tie rod come off and you would miss seeing them start to lose control and come in your lane. (The tie rod came off on my car and luckily there was no oncoming traffic when my car turned hard to the left into the other lane towards the embankment.)
A whole bunch of 10 second events that have nothing to do with this. I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make.
There’s been several crashes caused by pilots, not waiting 10 seconds to see what the planes going to do. The only issue here was the low altitude that they started at if they said happened to 30,000 feet then it wouldn’t have been an issue.
thanks for the video, Petter!
Your comment at the end of the video is on point, something like this happened to me this very afternoon, I was driving in a city, at speed limit (50km/h) and the front car was a good 100m ahead, I let go my concentration a mere 2 sec to check a direction panel, I didn't see the front car braking hard, by the time I had the eyes on the road again, I was past the limit of a safe emergency braking, still applied the brakes of course and while decelerating, I had to swerve into a parking slot (thankfully empty) along the road, when I was stopped, the front of my car was at the level of the other car passenger's door. No collision, no damages and no injuries, thankfully. so yeah, be careful of your environment when using any vehicle, be a rolling or a flying one :)
The NTSB final report states the PIC had 500 hours total on the type (which would have been a big difference), but the link to the incident report shows 5,000 hours. Even the NTSB can make a mistake!
Oops
I flew the metro liner and never had an autopilot. What joy. We did always verify each other on the inputs. Vertigo can happen easily too and must be overcome and trust your instruments. I learn so much from your videos. Thanks. glad they got it under control.
Really glad this was over water and not some slightly hilly terrain!
Fantastic breakdown of the incident, thank you!
Loving those new airport style shots in the first part!
Glad you noticed them!
I got a chuckle out of, "It definitely sounds like it was First Officer weather for a walkaround."
It is scary when you reach over to change stations on the car radio. You think it will only take a fraction of second, but then the station you change to is playing something you don't like and you try to find another. You forget that you're driving while focused on the radio for 3, 4, 5,.. 10 seconds...
I would had had a heart attack. I want to thank all pilots all over the world for getting us to our destinations safely. I am beyond terrified to fly but still do. Thank you pilots and flight crews
Great video as usual. I’m only a private pilot, but one of the things I remember learning is to rely on your instruments…. The instructor would take us into a cloud, and then say, are we level and it seemed like we were maintaining level then he would say look at the artificial horizon and we were starting to turn sideways. Weird how that works. I guess it just shows even these pro pilots flying these amazing machines have to stick with the basics..
Awesome recap! We airline pilots in the US hand fly a lot, at my company most pilots will engage the AP around 20k feet. Perhaps use of automation in this instance could have mitigated the illusions as well as free up some mental bandwidth
Yes, if he had engaged the auto pilot he would have increased his capacity and kept the aircraft flying away from the ground and at a safe speed
Hand flying is great when you have spare capacity, but a combination of factors should have rung alarm bells for this crew and the decision to engage the AP on departure would have saved them from all this humiliation. Unfortunately they just come across as utterly incompetent.
As always, your examinations of incidents really add to an understanding of the situation. Well done, once again.
In USN we trained to do call backs for every order to avoid mistakes like this. I thought it was common procedures for Pilots as well.
Mentour, I am almost sure that, in normal law, the 777 flight-by-wire autotrims too. The difference is that it autotrims for speed, not for climb speed / load factor like the Airbus philosophy, so the 777 behaves similarly to a non-FBW plane where the airplane seeks to go back to the speed for which the plane is trimmed, except that, unlike a non-FBW plane, the 777 automatically compensates for configuration changes (like flaps, salts, speedbrakes and gear) and changes in thrust so the speed for which the plane is trimmed doesn't change when you make these conf and thrust changes. Although unrelated, I think that the 777 FBW logic also damps the long-period mode of longitudinal oscillation (phugoid) so if you make a change in config or thrust it will stabilize in the new flight vertical profile in 1 single cycle In the 737 if you are flying straight and level at constant speed and close the throttles, the plane will start to lose speed and the nose will go down but it will "overshoot" the equilibrium pitch so it will gain more speed that it originally had and then will pitch up and so on during several oscillations until it stabilizes in a descent with an airspeed a bit higher than the original one due to the loss of the thrust in the underslung engines (effect equivalent to trimming nose down). If you do the same in the 777, the plane will start to pitch down immediately, it will still lose some speed in the beginning but the nose will go a bit more down than equilibrium pitch so the plane will speed up again and when the plane approaches the selected speed again it will pitch up that bit back up to the equilibrium pitch.
I think it's funny how you and Green dot uploaded a video on the same incident. I've been watching both channels for a while and knew this had to happen eventually 😂
I'm just thankful that there were no injuries and it's now simply a learning experience for all. I'm always remembering Delta 191 when the words wind shear are used. Also...8000 fpm climb rate for the 777? That's a lot of power.
Some of it was transient, trading airspeed for altitude, rather than steady-state and sustainable.
Just like how your car can climb a hill with the transmission in neutral and no power at all going to the wheels, if you start at the bottom of the hill already coasting at highway speed.
One thing I don't recall happening is the FO repeating the command flaps 5, for if he had responded with flaps 15, the PIC would surely have heard that and corrected him. And if he didn't respond then he should have repeated the command, or at least asked if the FO had heard the command.
Mentour pilot You are getting sharp day by day, I can feel your continus improvement process and you are killing any kind of competition far behind you.
I have a great connect what ever you say
Have an absolutely fantastic morning thank you for your hard work ❤❤❤
Thank you my friend!
Great video as always.
One thing I would say about this is that the crew's quick response was critical to avoiding catastrophe here.
BTW I see two other human factors related aspects here closely related to what you covered but going a little further.
The first is about the somatogravic illusion. One important aspect here is that during instrument flight training, pilots are (as you know) trained heavily on this and taught to ignore spacial sensations because these can be unreliable. I dont know if the captain pushed forward on the control column (as you point out that is not necessary to recreate this here), but the sense that would alert us to a change in pitch is something he would have had extensive training and experience in ignoring and for good reason. This means that visual cues are the only reliable measures and in the clouds, the only visual cues come from the instruments.
The second point is about stress-related fixation. When we face stress our concentration narrows This means that we tend to fixate on the perceived problem at hand at the expense of the greater situation. In my view when the captain noticed the barber poles not acting as he expected the stress in this case would have made it harder to maintain proper situational awareness of the overall vertical flight path and attitude of the aircraft. As you point out this happened very rapidly. and our cognitive biases work against us in rapidly changing situations.
These are all things all of us can learn from regardless of whether we are flying a plane or just operating anything else.
Good to see that the Captain and First Officer each filed separate reports - more likely to catch everything that way. Good job, Mentour ...
I love how you explain all the technical particulars about getting a plane airborne. If I wanted to become a pilot, 'Mentour Pilot' Channel would be essential viewing and would definitely be my channel of choice. I love watching 'Mentour Pilot' anyway. It's exhilarating viewing. Thank You.
Been having a terrible week, but this is a definite silver lining.
I truly enjoy your content. I learn things and I'm entertained.
Awesome, that’s what I’m trying to do.
@@MentourPilotHello. I would like to know which simulator you use to illustrate all your videos. Thank you
15:20 Doesn‘t 777’s fbw automatically trim the aircraft if the A/C is whitn the trim reference speed（trim button in 777/787 is used to change the trim the reference speed and according to that speed，the airplane will automatically trim itself…the A/C will always in trim in that speed no matter of the configuration）
Yea it will automatically trim to maintain the speed but it requires the flick of the trim switches to change the reference speed for the horizontal stabilizer to then move. It wont move on it's own after pitch inputs.
Climbing Solo single seat through 18000 feet in a snow storm with St Elmo's fire running up the central windscreen strut. Fascinating. Luckily I was talking to a safety pilot mate in the tower telling him what I was seeing. He was an old and bold. He asked if I had looked at my instruments recently... I hadn't for several seconds... and what I saw on the instruments initiated an ingrained muscle memory recovery from an very unusual position. As I remember it was 60 degrees right bank and 45 degrees nose down and speed accelerating towards VNE. Thank you Mike and thank you for all of that unusual position training. Continuous adherence to flying my aircraft with a selective radial scan would not have allowed this to happen. Any baby pilots out there, or even old and bold, flying the aircraft is paramount... admiring the view can kill you and any unfortunate souls in your professional care.
On the 777 you only have to trim for speed changes and not configuration changes. A slight point, but nevertheless an important one in this discussion.
I was wondering what happened with that flight. I can totally see that happening, fighting what your inner ear says in turbulence and flying the instruments can be challenging. I fly single pilot, and in situations like that I wait on the ground for better weather. It was great to see the pilots report the incident responsibly. Another lesson learned. If I expect to be IMC shortly after takeoff…I’ll brief myself to use caution for disorientation and to concentrate on flying the aircraft. I’m gong to add it to my check list too. Never stop learning, never stop improving.
Judging from the title of the video, I thought the plane went down and you were emphasizing the last recorded words seconds before impact which would be investigated and focused on in this overview.
As someone who just came back from a trip to Maui, you have no idea how relieved I was to finally hear that this had a good ending 😅
I actually thought the flight was to down too until I reread the title of the video and noticed it says "Seconds from Impact."
Great video but one thing you can fix. The audio level of the chapter screen sound is too loud (such as 10:28), and makes everything else quiet once RUclips applies its loudness correction.
I'm not a pilot but have gained a fascination for commercial flying since becoming hooked on your series. Thanks so much. Always look forward to them (not sure if I'll ever want to fly again though - will have to enjoy holidaying locally from now on😅)
Great video, as always. I think the comment about somatogravic illusion was very well placed here too. One thing that I think the video might've benefitted from, is the real-time replay of the accident using the graphic toold your team has, like you used to have in some of your early videos in this series. I Find them exctremely useful in underlining just how fast things were happening.
Another excellent video. Thank you so much for these thoughtful and well-explained segments.
Glad you like them! 💕
I'm always so excited to watch your videos. Another awesome one. Highly thankful for the extraordinary job that you do for us. Güten Abend...❤❤❤
Yup, I totally agree with you! I'm an AME and on some test flights I have pointed things out to the pilots like TCAS wasn't turned on after rotating, low airspeed etc.... Lots going on in a cockpit and they would have caught it down the line but definitely cannot get enough awareness. Side note: this was on older aircrafts with less automation...
Thank you for your great videos: as a Boeing operator, I’ve seen these mistakes and distractions in training , it’s nice to hand fly through the reported weather , I’d like to think you get that auto pilot on after takeoff much earlier to reduce the workload and manage things differently, you already have to divert your eyes to decide your weather deviations.
Second as a captain I’d be factoring in the fo’s time on type into my thought process when first meeting them and qualifying their experience, although they had a slew of Boeing experience , they were barley out of line in doc at that point. Auto pilot on at SOP minimum altitude and manage your airplane and what your fresh FO is doing, just my 2 cents. I guarantee you that captain has made that mental adjustment since the incident. Either way we all learn from each others mistakes so not trying to throw anyone under the bus, thanks for sharing
Love hearing from your point of view awesome
Hey, could you talk about the TAM 3054 accident? It really impacted brazilian aviation at the time. Great videos by the way.
I flew the 777 for 5 years. The trim system is automatic and will trim out all configuration changes automatically regardless of you being on AP or not. In the air it is called “trim reference speed.” In regards to the flap configuration setting from 20 to 5, when I first did my training, I quickly learned that you call the next flap setting for the flap bug as your airspeed trend penetrates the next bug. The first officer botched it by not slapping 5 in the setting and the captain should have looked first to see the bug switch from 5 to 1 and when it didn’t looked at the lower display to see what was commanded and then at the lever. When it was apparent the correct setting wasn’t utilized called it again and if no answer just thrown it himself. I know this is “Monday morning quarter backing it” but you “trust but verify” in aviation.
I really don’t get the point of this trim reference speed. Airbus will trim for everything, an old plane doesn’t autotrim for anything. Boeing will trim for everything except speed changes? Why? Why not just make it trim for everything, this seem like they just wanted to be different to Airbus. Either trim for everything or trim for nothing, why make it only trim for half the stuff
@@tomstravels520- I have been thinking about this situation a lot because Green Dot has just released a video about it, and Blancorillo did a month ago.
Boeing and Airbus have their philosophy. I believe that Boeing developed the FBW system to mimic older aircraft so that transitioning from an older Boeing to the 777 was easier. I haven’t flown Airbus so I don’t know the Airbus philosophy. However, the 777 is an absolute jog to fly and is so easy and light.
On departure the pitch is trimmed for V2+15. When you rotate you slowly rotate towards 15° and can then, generally let go because the aircraft stabilises. For thrust and configuration changes the aircraft also adapts so you don’t get pitch changes.
The thing that I find most worrying about this incident, and it hasn’t been picked up by any of the YT content creators, is that the autopilot /flight director system has flight envelope protection. For overspeed it works in 2 ways. Firstly manual trim stops. You can’t “trim for speed” when that speed is an over speed. Secondly, and more importantly, the flight controls become heavier and feel like they’re pushing back against you for over speeds. As you enter a dive and overspeed the aircraft the forward force on the control column has to be maintained. To get 15° nose down, the Captain has to be physically pushing / fighting against the controls. It is quite an effort and a lot of force involved. This Captain didn’t just let go of the controls. He was physically fighting the aircraft and actively forcing it into an overspeed. Letting go of the control column will have allowed this opposing force to push back on the controls and pitch the aircraft back towards a no overspeed condition. People have reported that the nose droppped, as if the aircraft was a badly trimmed Cessna 152. That’s impossible in the 777.
Legend has it that flaps are still set to 15
😂😂😂😂
I love to watch these videos twice. Once in the background while I make breakfast or chores. Second, with the remote on my hand watching intently and pausing it to try understand by rewinding it a bunch of time 😂❤
4:58 Seems a bit odd that there’s no info there about potential gusts, given the amount of turbulence that’d been reported.
6:58 I thought windshear warnings were something that would generally preclude a takeoff entirely (and cause a pilot to reject a takeoff they’d already begun, if it’s still possible)?
15:06 I admit I’m no pilot, but I’d always heard the main way to quickly reduce airspeed is to pull back on the yoke (and likewise, push forward to increase your airspeed). More generally, the golden rule as I’d heard it was "yoke for airspeed; throttle for altitude".
I strongly suspect I’m either missing something major here, or else I’ve just completely misunderstood things - so feel more than free to correct me.
So much of the investigation and your analysis can be transferred into learning from all walks of life. Thanks as always
that's really true. I actually think I've learned a great deal about staying calm and analyzing the options in all kinds of difficult sitations from Petter's videos.