@@backthrust1116 well it's from an interview people talk about it a lot, but he also states in that interview that he is a rly bad gamer so that would confirm why you think its the easiest game. also, dont think that spirit ashes make the game easier... bosses are rly unpredictable they can just rotate 180 degrees in an instant and attack, while on 1v1 you can learn the boss... with the summon its harder to get the pattern
Honestly, I've seen significantly more people defend summons then condemn them. This is kinda a cold take. Of course there are still losers who will mock you for using them but they're not even close to being representative of the majority. That being said, my issue with spirit summons isn't that they make the game easier. Its that they make the game easier in an unsatisfying way. I can see that From attempted to make them work but taking aggro and doing significant damage can trivialize most bosses. I would sooner overlevel my weapon or blessings or RL than use a summon because they still enable me to engage with the moveset of the boss rather then spam and ash of war when my summon takes aggro.
i always thought the gatekeeping sentiment was a lil goofy when you consider the realistic version of it, "if you need to get buff and train your martial art in order to become an mma champion, you suck actually" or "when someone shows up out of nowhere to attack you, you shouldn't use whatever weapons you might have on you to help or call for help, even if you have friends nearby and even if the person attacking you has a ton of help on their side" ik its a video game but if video games are meant to make me immersed in the world, then canonically my character is gonna go "oh hell naw, im not letting myself get jumped, I'm going to use whatever I can to protect myself"
Will I gatekeep an entire community, no. Im glad more people will get to experience this kind of game. Will I flame my roomate for beating the game with a sorcery build and summons, absolutely.
I would agree with you to some extent. The idea of spiritual summons is good but with some builds you can become insanely op. My first playthrough I used mimic tear rivers of blood and first tried Godfrey and beat malenia in under 5 tries. My entire strategy was just hope the boss agros on mimic tear while I spam rivers of blood. After a couple of playthroughs I decided to do one without spirit summons and some op weapons and had much more fun because I had to learn the bosses much more. I still think it’s fine to use spirit summons but I think it’s a better experience to not use them.
@@env3lop I did the same thing my first play through as well It mainly depends on who you are but the creator himself couldn’t beat the game without spirit summons I do think mimic tear is to strong thought I used the rats whenever I use summons now make the food for more bearable
As long as you engage with all the mechanics of the boss and environment, then spirit summons are fine. I think the mimic is overtuned still, but the dlc shows that as long as the damage and health is toned down, its fine
Great video, but I do think almost everyone have a better without spirit summons as opposed to summoning (coming from someone who used summons on my first ever play through)
They put in a talisman, they put in an ash to boost summons. They definitely lean into you using them. I don't use them after having used mimic tear on maelnia after hours of trying solo and then beating her in 2 attempts with it I felt unsatisfied. to myself since playing DS1 onward, it's my own satisfaction to beat a boss by learning it, and being forced into trying new strategies and trying different builds is the fun to me. People should use them if they are casual and aren't near as prideful if they enjoy the game. I get why people don't want to use them.
The IDEA is fine..and in the main game they were a good tool.. but what became of them, not so much.. I fully believe they ramped up the DLCs fights because of summons.. They had to balance the fights based on the OP Endgame summons people had, which im sure was fine for those that used them but for those who didn't use them - it made some of the fights a bit more annoying than difficult.
People dodge-rolling naked with fists or a stick aren't fans of FromSoft games as much as they are fans of themselves. :) FromSoft has made some of the best weapon arts and weapon selections and magic and combat mechanics in the industry. Props to those players for enjoying themselves, but they're crossing the line of decency when they have the gall to go out and tell other players that they shouldn't be using them.
You are changing the whole point of your video in the middle. You start with wanting to explain if summons make the game easier, but then your conclusion is that people should not tell others how to play the game. But those are 2 different topics. Everyone can play however they want, but it's objectively much easier to have the boss target multiple bodies. Especially the DLC bosses that barely give you gaps to attack or heal are much easier that way.
35+ hours into elden ring, and gotta say spirit summons are making the game muuuuch easier, but, I am enjoying the environment immensely that I dont mind trivialising the boss fights, the world is just SO DN EXPLORABLE !
The Souls diehards will try to convince you that if you don't play the game with no armor, no spells or incants, SL -69, barefisted, blindfolded, and hands tied behind your back you didnt play the game correctly.
I wouldn't summon spirits so often if I was able to dodge consistently, and I can't dodge consistently cause they still haven't fixed the dogshit input overload issue since DS3.
@@44gouranga no, this happens no matter whether I go in solo or use summons. I've been killing base game bosses solo lately only because I abuse the shit out of the stance mechanic which allows me to kill the boss with minimal rolls.
I would have said no before but i decided against malenia not to summon took me 3 days and now i think summons make the game less exciting i think elden ring is an rpg souls game that allows you to either play a souls game or an rpg with summons allowing for an easier time but my god is it better without
I don't have the right to tell someone how to play a game, but I feel that spirit summons are unbalanced and the game is a better experience without them. I have beaten the game several times on my first playthrough I used summons and they acted as a crutch to make up for my inability to doge certain attacks so I stopped using them because I felt they hindered my ability to improve.
The main problem with the argumenmt of spirit summons is that its not really possible to say they make it worse or better as a fact but i do think you make a good point i dont use spirit summons anymore
@@zeldasattic1528 because the content is good. And good content must be rewarded. 😊 I just got my first 150hrs in elden ring, so I appreciate opinions. 👍
I personally hate them. If you do use them the game is too easy because it breaks ai and you can kill the bosses too quickly, if you dont use them the games too hard because the boss's hp and damage are balanced with the assumption that you are using spirit ashes. I dont know why they couldn't just make it so enemies only get stronger if you decide to summon a spirit to make it more balanced for all players instead of forcing it on players who like to play solo.
The game was actually designed around coop, and spirit summons are like a "singleplayer" avenue. To the people who think spirit summons are easymode, how would you balance bosses around summons? You would probably have to give them lots of combo, move around a lot, switch directions a lot, have lots of AOE.... Oh. Thats Elden Ring.
Spirit summons are great if you’re goofing around. I’ve got a kratos build and I use the albinauric archer summon as Atreus lol. I also think they are great for beginners and casual gamers who don’t play very many difficult games. Of course once you get better the experience of playing without summons is very satisfying though.
Summons literally make the game easier though, its just a challenge thing and people can choose to play that way. Dunno why you switched to a dofferent topic in the middle of the video.
"Making the experience infinitely worse for yourself." is a wild claim in a game where overcoming challenge is the main point of enjoyment to be had from these games. From my perspective, being able to defeat bosses in a handful of attempts without having to learn the boss makes the experience infinitely worse. If it was just about getting to the end, why play the game at all? The bosses are still far from designed for fighting multiple opponents. They are slightly more designed for it in mind, but not enough to change the fact you still end up spending half the fight with the boss facing the wrong direction not attacking you and you can get a lot of attacks in. I've played Seamless Coop with some friends and it was a painfully trivial experience regardless of stat adjustments. Radahn was the only boss that worked really. Spirit-ashes are a difficulty setting. If, in most other games there is a 'recommended difficulty' that the game is designed around, and developers usually make that clear, the Elden Ring equivalent IS using no spirit summons. Very few people argue they 'ruin' the game. Most agree they are necessary for newer players. It's hard to balance a game that pleases people with 3 souls games under their belts and people new to the series and they're a great compromise. However 90% of the time I see any discussion regarding spirit summons it's people who use them trying to defend their use and pretending that it isn't simply a difficulty setting and doesn't diminish the experience. That's something that more people would take issue with.
@@pagatryx5451 I did say it would be cool if there was some form of achievement for beating the game without and I do think you make some good points though Nothing stopping you from not using them I was just annoyed at how often I saw peaple telling others not to use them And the point of the main enjoyment of overcoming challenge is a statement that works for some and doesn’t for others.
I’m gonna go out and say shadow of the erdtree added bosses that almost exclusively have tools to deal with multiple players/enemies. Elden ring isn’t dark souls, and spirit ashes are part of your build. If ignoring part of your build makes the game more fun for you, do it homie. I enjoy the flavor they add to a playthrough and the dynamism that different spirit ashes can bring to certain bosses.
@@zeldasattic1528 thanks. I’ve been a fromsoft fan for almost two decades I’m just frankly tired of playing these games (soulslikes) the same way again and again. I’m grateful they’ve added interesting magic and summons
No because the designers put it in the game. Do controllers ruin the game? Does having two thumbs ruin the game? Eyes? What about having two functioning eyes? Etc. FFS
I would have said no before but i decided against malenia not to summon took me 3 days and now i think summons make the game less exciting i think elden ring is an rpg souls game that allows you to either play a souls game or an rpg with summons allowing for an easier time but my god is it better without
I would have said no before but i decided against malenia not to summon took me 3 days and now i think summons make the game less exciting i think elden ring is an rpg souls game that allows you to either play a souls game or an rpg with summons allowing for an easier time but my god is it better without
Miyazaki said that he mades the game while having in mind that you should use any adventage that the game gives you.
exactly
I don't think he said that, but if he did, this is one of the easiest games ever made
@@backthrust1116 well it's from an interview people talk about it a lot, but he also states in that interview that he is a rly bad gamer so that would confirm why you think its the easiest game.
also, dont think that spirit ashes make the game easier... bosses are rly unpredictable they can just rotate 180 degrees in an instant and attack,
while on 1v1 you can learn the boss... with the summon its harder to get the pattern
In a recent Guardian interview he said he uses them himself!
@@IncidentElectron isnt that obvious thou? why would he add something to the game that he isnt using.
I’m gonna keep the same stance on thisevery time. It’s weird to gatekeep what kind of adversity others should enjoy. End of story
Just some random guy pop in my recommendation. Spit facts, leave
Pops into recommendations
Spits facts
Refuses to elaborate
Leaves
Honestly, I've seen significantly more people defend summons then condemn them. This is kinda a cold take. Of course there are still losers who will mock you for using them but they're not even close to being representative of the majority.
That being said, my issue with spirit summons isn't that they make the game easier. Its that they make the game easier in an unsatisfying way. I can see that From attempted to make them work but taking aggro and doing significant damage can trivialize most bosses. I would sooner overlevel my weapon or blessings or RL than use a summon because they still enable me to engage with the moveset of the boss rather then spam and ash of war when my summon takes aggro.
i always thought the gatekeeping sentiment was a lil goofy when you consider the realistic version of it, "if you need to get buff and train your martial art in order to become an mma champion, you suck actually" or "when someone shows up out of nowhere to attack you, you shouldn't use whatever weapons you might have on you to help or call for help, even if you have friends nearby and even if the person attacking you has a ton of help on their side"
ik its a video game but if video games are meant to make me immersed in the world, then canonically my character is gonna go "oh hell naw, im not letting myself get jumped, I'm going to use whatever I can to protect myself"
Will I gatekeep an entire community, no. Im glad more people will get to experience this kind of game. Will I flame my roomate for beating the game with a sorcery build and summons, absolutely.
Have fun playing your way, whatever it is, that´s Elden Ring for me, possibilities are endless.
This is a great video thanks
I would agree with you to some extent. The idea of spiritual summons is good but with some builds you can become insanely op. My first playthrough I used mimic tear rivers of blood and first tried Godfrey and beat malenia in under 5 tries. My entire strategy was just hope the boss agros on mimic tear while I spam rivers of blood.
After a couple of playthroughs I decided to do one without spirit summons and some op weapons and had much more fun because I had to learn the bosses much more. I still think it’s fine to use spirit summons but I think it’s a better experience to not use them.
@@env3lop I did the same thing my first play through as well
It mainly depends on who you are but the creator himself couldn’t beat the game without spirit summons
I do think mimic tear is to strong thought
I used the rats whenever I use summons now make the food for more bearable
- speaks facts
- refuses to drag on the video for unnecessary 20 minutes
- leaves 🗿🗿🗿
If Miyazaki didn't want you to use summons for boss fights, then the concept of coop wouldn't literally be cannon in dark souls 1
I think the summons are alright but mimick tear is something else man
yeah
mimic tear should be removed
only summon i used was for malenia and it did end up in that interesting dynamic of pulling aggro off my summon to keep him alive and vice versa
As long as you engage with all the mechanics of the boss and environment, then spirit summons are fine. I think the mimic is overtuned still, but the dlc shows that as long as the damage and health is toned down, its fine
Great video, but I do think almost everyone have a better without spirit summons as opposed to summoning (coming from someone who used summons on my first ever play through)
yeah
my personal opinion is try to beat the boss a couple time then use summons if ya still cant get it
@@zeldasattic1528 yeah that’s a good approach but I would recommend everyone atleast try to do a play through without summons
@@Zachariahsaurus yeah i did my dlc prep playthrough without them
They put in a talisman, they put in an ash to boost summons. They definitely lean into you using them. I don't use them after having used mimic tear on maelnia after hours of trying solo and then beating her in 2 attempts with it I felt unsatisfied. to myself since playing DS1 onward, it's my own satisfaction to beat a boss by learning it, and being forced into trying new strategies and trying different builds is the fun to me. People should use them if they are casual and aren't near as prideful if they enjoy the game. I get why people don't want to use them.
The IDEA is fine..and in the main game they were a good tool.. but what became of them, not so much.. I fully believe they ramped up the DLCs fights because of summons.. They had to balance the fights based on the OP Endgame summons people had, which im sure was fine for those that used them but for those who didn't use them - it made some of the fights a bit more annoying than difficult.
People dodge-rolling naked with fists or a stick aren't fans of FromSoft games as much as they are fans of themselves. :)
FromSoft has made some of the best weapon arts and weapon selections and magic and combat mechanics in the industry. Props to those players for enjoying themselves, but they're crossing the line of decency when they have the gall to go out and tell other players that they shouldn't be using them.
You are changing the whole point of your video in the middle. You start with wanting to explain if summons make the game easier, but then your conclusion is that people should not tell others how to play the game. But those are 2 different topics.
Everyone can play however they want, but it's objectively much easier to have the boss target multiple bodies. Especially the DLC bosses that barely give you gaps to attack or heal are much easier that way.
@@44gouranga thanks for the feedback
This is actually really helpful
good video, dont understand how this has so little views
35+ hours into elden ring, and gotta say spirit summons are making the game muuuuch easier, but, I am enjoying the environment immensely that I dont mind trivialising the boss fights, the world is just SO DN EXPLORABLE !
@@SherifNeamatalla I know right
Would say try beating the noses a couple time without but I hope you enjoy this amazing game
The Souls diehards will try to convince you that if you don't play the game with no armor, no spells or incants, SL -69, barefisted, blindfolded, and hands tied behind your back you didnt play the game correctly.
Honestly the only spirit summon I use if I’m really stuck is Loretta as she can’t move.
After beating the dlc i can confidently say that
spirit summons wont save you....
The algorithm has favoured you, quick capitalise
I wouldn't summon spirits so often if I was able to dodge consistently, and I can't dodge consistently cause they still haven't fixed the dogshit input overload issue since DS3.
Maybe you can't dodge consistently because the boss is attacking multiple targets?
@@44gouranga no, this happens no matter whether I go in solo or use summons. I've been killing base game bosses solo lately only because I abuse the shit out of the stance mechanic which allows me to kill the boss with minimal rolls.
This is the highest quality video with 4 views I've ever seen
Lmao
Thanks I appreciate it
Ong
I would have said no before but i decided against malenia not to summon took me 3 days and now i think summons make the game less exciting i think elden ring is an rpg souls game that allows you to either play a souls game or an rpg with summons allowing for an easier time but my god is it better without
I don't have the right to tell someone how to play a game, but I feel that spirit summons are unbalanced and the game is a better experience without them. I have beaten the game several times on my first playthrough I used summons and they acted as a crutch to make up for my inability to doge certain attacks so I stopped using them because I felt they hindered my ability to improve.
The main problem with the argumenmt of spirit summons is that its not really possible to say they make it worse or better as a fact
but i do think you make a good point i dont use spirit summons anymore
You ser, you get a sub.
@@KonohasEdge why thank you
@@zeldasattic1528 because the content is good. And good content must be rewarded. 😊 I just got my first 150hrs in elden ring, so I appreciate opinions. 👍
Play the game the way you want don't let people tell you how to play
I personally hate them. If you do use them the game is too easy because it breaks ai and you can kill the bosses too quickly, if you dont use them the games too hard because the boss's hp and damage are balanced with the assumption that you are using spirit ashes. I dont know why they couldn't just make it so enemies only get stronger if you decide to summon a spirit to make it more balanced for all players instead of forcing it on players who like to play solo.
@@demonicdude1328 cause most only use mimic tear
Try some of the other summons
This is a fun idea though
I use spirit summoning, but not mimic tear, not because it's OP, I just don't think he's as cool as my girl Lhutel
The game was actually designed around coop, and spirit summons are like a "singleplayer" avenue.
To the people who think spirit summons are easymode, how would you balance bosses around summons?
You would probably have to give them lots of combo, move around a lot, switch directions a lot, have lots of AOE....
Oh. Thats Elden Ring.
Spirit summons are great if you’re goofing around. I’ve got a kratos build and I use the albinauric archer summon as Atreus lol. I also think they are great for beginners and casual gamers who don’t play very many difficult games. Of course once you get better the experience of playing without summons is very satisfying though.
Summons literally make the game easier though, its just a challenge thing and people can choose to play that way. Dunno why you switched to a dofferent topic in the middle of the video.
"Making the experience infinitely worse for yourself." is a wild claim in a game where overcoming challenge is the main point of enjoyment to be had from these games. From my perspective, being able to defeat bosses in a handful of attempts without having to learn the boss makes the experience infinitely worse. If it was just about getting to the end, why play the game at all?
The bosses are still far from designed for fighting multiple opponents. They are slightly more designed for it in mind, but not enough to change the fact you still end up spending half the fight with the boss facing the wrong direction not attacking you and you can get a lot of attacks in. I've played Seamless Coop with some friends and it was a painfully trivial experience regardless of stat adjustments. Radahn was the only boss that worked really.
Spirit-ashes are a difficulty setting. If, in most other games there is a 'recommended difficulty' that the game is designed around, and developers usually make that clear, the Elden Ring equivalent IS using no spirit summons. Very few people argue they 'ruin' the game. Most agree they are necessary for newer players. It's hard to balance a game that pleases people with 3 souls games under their belts and people new to the series and they're a great compromise. However 90% of the time I see any discussion regarding spirit summons it's people who use them trying to defend their use and pretending that it isn't simply a difficulty setting and doesn't diminish the experience. That's something that more people would take issue with.
@@pagatryx5451 I did say it would be cool if there was some form of achievement for beating the game without and I do think you make some good points though
Nothing stopping you from not using them
I was just annoyed at how often I saw peaple telling others not to use them
And the point of the main enjoyment of overcoming challenge is a statement that works for some and doesn’t for others.
I’m gonna go out and say shadow of the erdtree added bosses that almost exclusively have tools to deal with multiple players/enemies. Elden ring isn’t dark souls, and spirit ashes are part of your build. If ignoring part of your build makes the game more fun for you, do it homie. I enjoy the flavor they add to a playthrough and the dynamism that different spirit ashes can bring to certain bosses.
@@lazysylph3312 you explained it better than me
@@zeldasattic1528 thanks. I’ve been a fromsoft fan for almost two decades I’m just frankly tired of playing these games (soulslikes) the same way again and again. I’m grateful they’ve added interesting magic and summons
@@lazysylph3312 same
As someone who just beat the game without spirit summons for the first time, no.
@@spacedaniel492 no they do ruin elden ring or no the don’t
I’m confused here
No
@@DBboon yes
No because the designers put it in the game.
Do controllers ruin the game?
Does having two thumbs ruin the game?
Eyes? What about having two functioning eyes?
Etc.
FFS
lmao
I would have said no before but i decided against malenia not to summon took me 3 days and now i think summons make the game less exciting i think elden ring is an rpg souls game that allows you to either play a souls game or an rpg with summons allowing for an easier time but my god is it better without
I would have said no before but i decided against malenia not to summon took me 3 days and now i think summons make the game less exciting i think elden ring is an rpg souls game that allows you to either play a souls game or an rpg with summons allowing for an easier time but my god is it better without
@@shinsoatimaku yeah but there the problem
3 days
I’m not trying to have a realest of isshin