I'm running CoC with lightning arrow, lightning conduit, and voltaxic rift. This combo is less about optimizing CoC, but instead maximizing conduit potential.
Ensnaring arrow totems are amazing for any bow build, increased damage taken and less movement speed for enemies always feels good. I like putting barrage support on them, its a bad idea (due to totem targetting) but hearing ballistas go POW POW POW POW is too satisfying to pass.
Neat video. Love the results in a spreadsheet. I was surprised by iceshot being the worst for single target when I thought some people explicitly used iceshot for single target DPS (maybe combined with hydrosphere). But I know 0 about bow skills.
I actually really really enjoy Barrage as a CoC Trigger, but only with the Threshold jewel for clear, which makes the first and last arrow act like Split Arrow.
It's probably worth mentioning that some of these scale very differently with varying APS and cooldown recovery rate thresholds than others, and some also work much better with two spells than others. For example, blast rain works extremely well even with little attack speed because it has that many projectiles and they're all delayed enough not to fall into the same cooldown (for one attack, anyway). TS relies a lot more on attack speed because all its hits are very shortly after the attack, and it also relies on additional arrows which limits you to GMP skills like ice spear and/or deadeye in general. I know you hint at these in the video but they can actually make a huge difference if you play bow CoC builds other than Deadeyes that either have very little attack speed (most of them), or extremely high attack speed (corpse detonation shenanigans with Necromancer), and generally don't have any extra projectiles.
You’ll want to rewatch. I studied videos of his CoC meticulously. No less than 20 times, it’s the only way to be able to know every tiny detail shown in the videos of his beautifully crafted CoC. I had the videos of his CoC completely memorized to the point that I could at an instant, recall and imagine the subtle (and not so subtle) details of his CoC, so that I knew exactly what I needed to improve how my CoC functioned. Anytime my CoC struggled to perform and failed to rise up to the occasion during those big game time pressure ridden moments… I’d refer back to his CoC… never let me down. And now my CoC is strong.
Dude... Barrage has a thresholdjewel witch makes it insane for clear and even more crazy with chain. I played a Barrage CoC Exsanguinate with max chains and it was just beautifull. There for I would say for Some CoC builds it might actully be the best Skill
TR CoC is really pretty :o Also, we kind of need different names for the different CoC versions. Got a bit confusing when you played Jungroans "true" double CoC a lot this league. E.g. one CoC with one spell, one CoC with multiple spells, multiple CoCs with multiple spells.
100% quality Divergent ensnaring arrow can cause +50% spell dmg taken. If you have it as phys setup you could have kinetism for guareenteed bleed (no benefit for chain and pierce anyways) and then have reap / exsang and corrupting fever as spell. Everything scales with phys over time. As a deadeye you could take advantage of mirage archers and rupturing for more memes, and with temp chains (newly buffed) and some chill they should basically crawl around, but still take full dmg. Or do raider and get the rupturing as forbidden jewel (historically its always been v cheap) Would be a fun mid league build to try.
As a dumb fun build I want to try out multiple CoC and triggers, like a malonies, lion paws and mark... Toxic rain and poison bladefall.. something that will make my eyes bleed... I miss the old spell shotguns.
I've been floating a raider around for next league in my head. I had chaos damage in mind and was looking at toxic rain, but this gives me an idea to use toxic rain to CoC another chaos skill. Might have to play around with it a bit and see what I can scale.
You're doing an amazing job showing us a barely touched world, with a huuuuge quality. CoC is my favorite build archetype, sadly I never built one with max CDR. GJ. ♥
Love that you took the time to actually test things Yourself. But just highlights the bigger issue of everyone copying and assuming builds from someone who copies from someone etc without even trying to testing to see if there is other viable options. Maybe this is why the meta is so dry and boring and same and maybe not. But maybe if you treat other groups of skills, Melee, Aoe spells, projectile spells etc maybe small series you could be on to something new. The explosive arrow was a surprise as you said . Good job
I personally prefer the even more scientific tests (with multiple runs per skill and using timers, etc), but I still appreciate stuff like this. Fun to watch and informative.
Can you scale the aoe of the afterhit from ice shot? If so, it could make the clear better. EDIT: You can. In fact, Anomalous Ice Shot's quality increases aoe by 10% at 20% quality. Ice shot also has TWO aoe related helmet enchantments: "Ice Shot has 60% increased Area of Effect angle" and "24% increased Ice Shot Area of Effect". I bet you could tinker with it to make it much more effective compared to what it was in this test.
Qn: other than being easier to craft the bow and the inherent cdr from awakened coc, what are the advantages of a normal spine bow vs shaper 7L coc bow? Do you think a normal bow is stronger than the 7L?
The reason why Spine bow is popular is because of the base crit chance. Most of the super fast attack speed bows have terrible crit, 5.00 or 5.50. Spine has 6.5 but still has respectable attack speed at 1.4. The higher crit chance bows are only like .2 crit chance better 6.7 or 7.3 but at a very low attack speed. Best in slot for a CoC build is actually going to be a Synthesized +1 gems or +1 to support gems, and again Spine is good here because it doesn't have an implicit to start with so you're not technically losing anything. Awakened CoC is never to be overlooked as it's simply incredible with the current game. Not only does it make hitting the 52% cdr breakpoint so much easier, but it allows you to hit it while only wearing 1 cdr armour piece (the boots), leaving your belt wide open for whatever you prefer. Also, awakened CoC would not be as good if it weren't for the existence of +3 crit gem mastery. As long as this mastery exists in the game, Awakened CoC will always be the superior CoC setup.
Aw, I thought u would put barrage support on the galvanic arrow. It’s suppose to do more dps since the aoe flash fires with each arrow instead of only once with all arrows when not using barrage.
Wonder if you can do coaching as content, Ive played a lot but usually my toons only get up to guardians and Ive had a few strong toons before but the end game kinda eludes me now, I think I have decent understanding of the game but not sure how to take characters to the next level these days. Feels like only broken mechanics can do the end game. would like some insight into how to build stronger characters.
Trying to build up a library of foundational knowledge so we can really move away from PoBs and guides in general. With that said, I've done two bow coc guides this league. The Hexblast version that I did a couple weeks ago feels very strong at 10-15D and is amazing at 30D which is pretty darn cheap as a non-starter build.
@@JTD472 not to speak for him. But my take based on how he explained why he's testing all the bow skills for coc builds. It's all about encouraging everyone to test stuff out and not just blindly trusting creators and their guides. Sub has always tried to show us through his videos the underlying mechanics, so people can run with it vs just copying what he's done 1-to-1
There is such a huge emphasis on efficiency these days that very few players (myself included) take the time to actually discover stuff in the game. The game does not always help with this. Why would you want to experiment with something that only gets you to white/yellow maps when you could be farming reds or bosses.
still playing Jungs RF spark inquisitor, amazing clear(on narrow maps like Atoll, Grotto etc) but lacking dps for bossing, looking at a MF style bow build next i think
This was a lot of work I’m sure. Well done and thanks for continuing to put out non-boring shit for those of us who are bored w the game right now
I'm running CoC with lightning arrow, lightning conduit, and voltaxic rift. This combo is less about optimizing CoC, but instead maximizing conduit potential.
Seems neat, got pob?
Ensnaring arrow totems are amazing for any bow build, increased damage taken and less movement speed for enemies always feels good.
I like putting barrage support on them, its a bad idea (due to totem targetting) but hearing ballistas go POW POW POW POW is too satisfying to pass.
Neat video. Love the results in a spreadsheet. I was surprised by iceshot being the worst for single target when I thought some people explicitly used iceshot for single target DPS (maybe combined with hydrosphere). But I know 0 about bow skills.
Ice shot has never been used for single target. People usually supplement it with Barrage instead. Ice Shot is more for screen wide clear.
I actually really really enjoy Barrage as a CoC Trigger, but only with the Threshold jewel for clear, which makes the first and last arrow act like Split Arrow.
It's probably worth mentioning that some of these scale very differently with varying APS and cooldown recovery rate thresholds than others, and some also work much better with two spells than others. For example, blast rain works extremely well even with little attack speed because it has that many projectiles and they're all delayed enough not to fall into the same cooldown (for one attack, anyway). TS relies a lot more on attack speed because all its hits are very shortly after the attack, and it also relies on additional arrows which limits you to GMP skills like ice spear and/or deadeye in general.
I know you hint at these in the video but they can actually make a huge difference if you play bow CoC builds other than Deadeyes that either have very little attack speed (most of them), or extremely high attack speed (corpse detonation shenanigans with Necromancer), and generally don't have any extra projectiles.
Can you put a link to the spreadsheet, this is a nice resource but i dont wanna rewatch the video everytime i want to compare stuff.
Was just touching it up. Will be in the description in a minute
You’ll want to rewatch. I studied videos of his CoC meticulously. No less than 20 times, it’s the only way to be able to know every tiny detail shown in the videos of his beautifully crafted CoC. I had the videos of his CoC completely memorized to the point that I could at an instant, recall and imagine the subtle (and not so subtle) details of his CoC, so that I knew exactly what I needed to improve how my CoC functioned. Anytime my CoC struggled to perform and failed to rise up to the occasion during those big game time pressure ridden moments… I’d refer back to his CoC… never let me down. And now my CoC is strong.
@@kerryoneal3679 birth of a copypasta
barrage used to be one of THE CoC builds, with the threshold jewels and prenerfed quillrain i loved this build so much man ...
Throw that divergent ensnaring arrow in a Maloney's Mechanism along with frenzy and GMP, and you're golden!
Dude... Barrage has a thresholdjewel witch makes it insane for clear and even more crazy with chain. I played a Barrage CoC Exsanguinate with max chains and it was just beautifull. There for I would say for Some CoC builds it might actully be the best Skill
Oh my god, I've looked for this info for so long. My god.
Rain of arrows was also really good for the bleed bow glad build in ultimatum
For my wrist perspective, all of them are 0 lol. Nice content man!
TR CoC is really pretty :o
Also, we kind of need different names for the different CoC versions. Got a bit confusing when you played Jungroans "true" double CoC a lot this league.
E.g. one CoC with one spell, one CoC with multiple spells, multiple CoCs with multiple spells.
Yeah just a massive amount of CoC's all around. It is starting to smell.
Actually valuable content thanks man
You are such a legend, thank you so much :)
100% quality Divergent ensnaring arrow can cause +50% spell dmg taken.
If you have it as phys setup you could have kinetism for guareenteed bleed (no benefit for chain and pierce anyways) and then have reap / exsang and corrupting fever as spell.
Everything scales with phys over time.
As a deadeye you could take advantage of mirage archers and rupturing for more memes, and with temp chains (newly buffed) and some chill they should basically crawl around, but still take full dmg.
Or do raider and get the rupturing as forbidden jewel (historically its always been v cheap)
Would be a fun mid league build to try.
As a dumb fun build I want to try out multiple CoC and triggers, like a malonies, lion paws and mark...
Toxic rain and poison bladefall.. something that will make my eyes bleed... I miss the old spell shotguns.
I've been floating a raider around for next league in my head. I had chaos damage in mind and was looking at toxic rain, but this gives me an idea to use toxic rain to CoC another chaos skill. Might have to play around with it a bit and see what I can scale.
great content, more of this plz
one bite gaming, absolutely legendary
PEAK efficiency
You're doing an amazing job showing us a barely touched world, with a huuuuge quality. CoC is my favorite build archetype, sadly I never built one with max CDR.
GJ. ♥
amazing work!
Scourge arrow worked pretty well for me, but you have to channel for a second instead of just shoot and move.
Ya know, they should change barrage to a channeling skill. As it builds charges, it should boost attack speed and projectile count.
Cool idea!
i appreciate the double C O CCCCC
Love that you took the time to actually test things Yourself. But just highlights the bigger issue of everyone copying and assuming builds from someone who copies from someone etc without even trying to testing to see if there is other viable options. Maybe this is why the meta is so dry and boring and same and maybe not. But maybe if you treat other groups of skills, Melee, Aoe spells, projectile spells etc maybe small series you could be on to something new. The explosive arrow was a surprise as you said . Good job
1:51 YEAH thats what i always say before destroying her ;-)
i remember pre coc nerf, the most insane bow coc was barrage+freezing pulse+ice spear
Remembers in FastAF.
@@kakefisk yeah, FastAF version
Barrage with Volley Fire jewel actually feels amazing for clear imo
yea i did that a long time ago when i did a bow CoC Ice spear build. it felt pretty good for me too
this is good shit man.
The more coc's the better right? 😂
And yes, I love these kind of vids alot!
It is funny, most of the top end members of my guild exclusively play TR.
Deng, I was kinda excited for scourge arrow
POE casting couch. Two CoC's.
Does anybody have the link to this specific full stream?
Subtractem, did you have chain in your tests?
I personally prefer the even more scientific tests (with multiple runs per skill and using timers, etc), but I still appreciate stuff like this. Fun to watch and informative.
Can you scale the aoe of the afterhit from ice shot? If so, it could make the clear better. EDIT: You can. In fact, Anomalous Ice Shot's quality increases aoe by 10% at 20% quality. Ice shot also has TWO aoe related helmet enchantments: "Ice Shot has 60% increased Area of Effect angle" and "24% increased Ice Shot Area of Effect". I bet you could tinker with it to make it much more effective compared to what it was in this test.
What about hydrosphere and lightning arrow to chain? Or does it not work that way? Haven’t done any testing with hydrosphere
Random idea, what if you did cast on crit and cast while channeling with scourge arrow?
Also, why don't people do coc with spellslinger power siphon?
Qn: other than being easier to craft the bow and the inherent cdr from awakened coc, what are the advantages of a normal spine bow vs shaper 7L coc bow?
Do you think a normal bow is stronger than the 7L?
The reason why Spine bow is popular is because of the base crit chance. Most of the super fast attack speed bows have terrible crit, 5.00 or 5.50. Spine has 6.5 but still has respectable attack speed at 1.4. The higher crit chance bows are only like .2 crit chance better 6.7 or 7.3 but at a very low attack speed.
Best in slot for a CoC build is actually going to be a Synthesized +1 gems or +1 to support gems, and again Spine is good here because it doesn't have an implicit to start with so you're not technically losing anything. Awakened CoC is never to be overlooked as it's simply incredible with the current game. Not only does it make hitting the 52% cdr breakpoint so much easier, but it allows you to hit it while only wearing 1 cdr armour piece (the boots), leaving your belt wide open for whatever you prefer. Also, awakened CoC would not be as good if it weren't for the existence of +3 crit gem mastery. As long as this mastery exists in the game, Awakened CoC will always be the superior CoC setup.
no split arrow? would think would be great for clear
Sorry bad timestamps, it's at 12:58
@@subtractem thank you! so tornado shot is best for all? cool haha
Aw, I thought u would put barrage support on the galvanic arrow. It’s suppose to do more dps since the aoe flash fires with each arrow instead of only once with all arrows when not using barrage.
You wouldn't do that for Cast on Crit because you would lose an additional support gem. This is only for CoC no regular bow skills.
i remember toxic rain was the talk of the town back then
It's a good league starter but this is only for Cast on Crit where it doesn't have any special synergy.
@@subtractem what about elemental hit ?
thx
can it be that the explosion from EA also crits after the arrow? so double crit per proj
now will do the melee coc skills?
hmmm ... question!
you test bunch of arrow skill with Cast on Crit
but what are skill you are critted for ?
Arc and lightning conduit
@@subtractem ok thx mate
Wonder if you can do coaching as content, Ive played a lot but usually my toons only get up to guardians and Ive had a few strong toons before but the end game kinda eludes me now, I think I have decent understanding of the game but not sure how to take characters to the next level these days. Feels like only broken mechanics can do the end game. would like some insight into how to build stronger characters.
I do coaching as part of the patreon perks. Coaching through build reviews into content I could see working though.
Don't shoot with your CoC in public kids.
Hello @subtractem , did you try barrage with the barrage threshold jewel? That makes barrage spread out? I think it will make clear far better
What is your double coc setup for spells?
Does ice wall improve EAs single target, or it.s limited by the CoC cd?
Your own projectiles go through ice wall
are these build expensive, specially the tornado shot version. would love the pobs or some guide etc in the future.
Trying to build up a library of foundational knowledge so we can really move away from PoBs and guides in general.
With that said, I've done two bow coc guides this league. The Hexblast version that I did a couple weeks ago feels very strong at 10-15D and is amazing at 30D which is pretty darn cheap as a non-starter build.
@@subtractem whoa, what? Can you explain the first paragraph of that response?
Maybe I misunderstood
@@JTD472 not to speak for him. But my take based on how he explained why he's testing all the bow skills for coc builds.
It's all about encouraging everyone to test stuff out and not just blindly trusting creators and their guides.
Sub has always tried to show us through his videos the underlying mechanics, so people can run with it vs just copying what he's done 1-to-1
@@subtractem Thank you. I will look into that.
There is such a huge emphasis on efficiency these days that very few players (myself included) take the time to actually discover stuff in the game. The game does not always help with this. Why would you want to experiment with something that only gets you to white/yellow maps when you could be farming reds or bosses.
still playing Jungs RF spark inquisitor, amazing clear(on narrow maps like Atoll, Grotto etc) but lacking dps for bossing, looking at a MF style bow build next i think
make a top10 build for budget and can go uber
id rather not
I said it before and I'll say it again
I like coc man its just so good
I really love coc so much, coc is the best
Did i miss split arrow?
Can you put here POB your build ?
Check previous video
🥰
Just play what you want .
master! give me the PoB please :)