Great video as usual One comment: when you bochet, you don't evaporate honey, you dehydrate it an caramelize it. You don't technically lose sugar, some of them undergo the Maillard reaction but are still there. As long as it is not fuming black (evidence of carbon), it is only water you evaporate. It may seem counter-intuitive but in extreme conditions (like 90% of sugar), water will not boil att 100C but much higher and the more water you evaporate, the higher the temperature needs to be to evaporate some more. Cheers
So happy to see a Bochet come out again! I've been trying to master them recently and think they are intensely fun, definitely a bit of work to dial in. Definitely thought this was going to be a Black Currant Mead coming in (because of the common name). Quick question: Do you boil the honey directly or mix some water in before the boil? I haven't noticed serious changes to flavor, but it gives me a slightly better control over the boil, and I'm thinking it experimenting with steeping flavor additions (like spices) during the early parts of the boil. Which way do you go about this, and have you experimented with steeping things like this during the boil?
From everything I have read and seen you don't sad water until after it is done cooking, so that is why I have never added water until the end. Since they use to boil the mead with all the water back in the day and from your own experience I can't see that it would harm it, but just from cooking experience if you add water it will slow down the cooking. A scenario if you made two right next to each other and one you added water and one you didn't, the one you didn't add water to would be a little more bocheted. I love the idea of adding the spices to it while it is cooking and I have thought about doing it and for some reason I have not. Please post the results if you do it
@@andrewcotton1651 With patience, I get the same color, the slowed timeframe is exactly what I wanted though. I think my next step is going to be gauging the rough percentages of different kinds of sugars in honey, they studying up on their properties. From nascent reading, the cooking will cause hydrolysis in the sugars which allows for the caramelizing. The hypothesis I want to test is if I control the temperature very attentively, can I arrive at similar colors with only say the glucose hydrolysing, or maybe I can help break down some of the sucrose in interesting ways. Essentially, how can I use scientific understanding to really dial in the boil before my brew. I want to master this.
@@johnburke8337 patience is the key and the more control you can have the better, gives more possibility to repeat and get similar results. I love the idea of your experiment, but it is not going to be easy. Every honey has a different percentage in its sugars even if you get it from the same hive just a slight different time period. Without access to a lab will make it difficult because you'll need to know the percentages for each honey that you put in, but if you can get that narrowed down then you should be able to truly make a copy of a recipe. One thing with your experiment that I would suggest you adjust it is instead of looking for the same color, focus more on just the sugar breakdown that you want, you can always do stuff to adjust the color that will have less impact on the Brew then the cooking of the sugar. Plus the thing that is most interesting about a brochat is the complexity that you get from the caramelization of the sugar. I think your experiment if it all works out could be amazing and if you're able to master the brew that way all the better and I would love to see and taste the results, if you're ever in the area of New Mexico hit me up.
@@andrewcotton1651 Thanks for the encouragement! I like the idea of this challenge, so I want to dive in. Would that I had more buckets and carboys lol It also seems like that South Central (I'm not letting TX edge you guys out) region is the hot bed for mead development rn. hopefully I can get things rolling in Boston haha
Sounds delicious. Printed off the recipe. Starting as soon as my latest experiment is completed.. Currently I have developed a mead that is made from 2 oz of homemade chocolate extract, 2oz homemade Vanille extract and 2 oz homemade blackwalnut extract. Used 5 1/2 lbs of Mesquite Honey. Rather interesting flavor at this point in time. 4 months in.
Really enjoy your videos, and might give this a try! Was wondering if you ever add campden tablets or potassium sorbate in any of your recipes? Any advice on that? Thanks again. :)
Just curious but how do you know the Honey is only from Clover ? I have Bees and so far, no matter how much I explain to my Bees to only go for this flower or that one they do as they please and I end up with a mix of what ever flowers are in the 3 mile radius ;)
@@ManMadeMead I did a little research and found the regulations, as long as a Honey has at least 50% of a set flower, you can call it that flavour. So if you have 50% Iron Bark then you can call it Iron Bark Honey. Or same with Clover or Citrus Blossom. I bet they don't do that many tests and they blend their Honeys any way so that it all tastes the same for that Batch. I was curious and at least now I know I can name my Raw Honeys depending on what the main plant is in Flower. We have a lot of Bananas in my area so I can label one of my Harvests as Banana Honey :) Cheers
I only ever tried bochet once and I wasn't a fan - but I'm willing to give it another go, one can't define one's tastes by one experience, after all, lol.
I’m confused. How/why did the gravity drop again during aging? There must’ve been a secondary fermentation before you back sweetened, so what did the final abv end up at? Also, will you follow up to let us know if it fermented yet again after the back sweetening? Thanks!
It could have been a faulty gravity reading on my end, or the yeast could have woken back up and fermented again. The final ABV after backsweetening with 1.015 again. I’ll give you an update in the future!
Did I see the peppercorns were added whole? My first one gallon Bochet is about to enter secondary. Very caramel forward right now. Considering adding peppercorns.
There's a small meadery in Texas that does a black mead by bocheting the crap out of the honey like this. It tasted like butt cheeks. Definitely the worst mead I've ever had. Hope yours turns out better!
I believe the Cream of Tartar is also used as a fermentation starter. Its a form of Potassium. Its probably being used in place of yeast nutrient. Which is why yeast nutrient is not on the original recipe.
@@ManMadeMead you already know the cream of tartar is a byproduct of grape fermentation. I'm thinking its an extension of using dregs as a yeast starter in beer and wine making.
Just curious how it finished fermenting after only two weeks? Is that because you heated the honey first before pouring? Would it have taken longer for the yeast to eaten the yeast if it wasn't heated? I'm just curious. I think clover honey would be a great neutral honey, especially if heating. I'd imagine heating honey with more interesting flavors like orange blossom or buckwheat would waste those fragile flavors that make those honeys unique in flavors. I hope it turns out well though after aging.
Heating honey doesn't really change it (unless you get to bochet temperatures) but it is possible that since there is so much caramelized sugar that won't be fermented, that the 1.100 reading isn't totally accurate.
And yeah making a bochet with more of the varietal flavors does waste a lot of the special flavor, but if you only lightly caramelize you can still keep a bit of the flavor.
It finished in 2 weeks because the yeast were healthy, had nutrients and generally just fermented easily! The process generally just changes the honey character (and makes some sugars non-fermentable).
Honey can't evaporate, what you're likely seeing is the evaporation of some of the water in the honey. When this happens the honey will crystallize, and rehydrating it will bring it back to a syrupy state.
Sorry, but at some point you are no longer caramelizing "every sugar of the honey". You are burning the sugars. Ever burnt toast? That is what you are doing when you aim for a burnt offering rather than a bochet. You are burning the sugars. To caramelize honey you need only to raise the temperature of the honey to 230 F to caramelize the fructose (40% of the honey) or to 320 F to caramelize the glucose (33%) and the sucrose and the galactose. Color wheels are great for studio arts but for mead makers you really want a thermometer. My guess is that this "bochet" is going to be more bitter than Dickens' Miss Havisham.
It had a slight bitter taste, but nothing that was overwhelming. It actually turned out to be amazing! Thanks for the comment. I always hear some new statement from your comments!
@@ManMadeMead I guess I am a little surprised. Competition judges invariably reject bochets that use burnt honey as undrinkable and the science supports the idea that caramelization does not require nearly as much heat as those who make mead often assume (at least many of those who self publish blogs and the like assume). Try caramelizing table sugar for even one hour. True - there is no water in table sugar to protect the sugar from literally becoming carbon. But carbonization is not the same as caramelization. And here's the thing: science is replicable. AND it does not depend on the one performing the experiment. Take a pound of honey and a thermometer and heat the honey to 230 AND /or 320 (for less or more sugars in the honey to be caramelized) and taste the result. Depending on how you heat the honey you will need to measure the temperature towards BOTH the top and the bottom but you might consider cooking the honey in your oven - it heats more evenly thataway. I once worked for a fellow who ate burnt toast for breakfast. It had to be black. It had to be burnt. But he had a digestive problem. He never ever said that he enjoyed burnt toast. Does anyone? Eating (or drinking) carbon is not nearly as pleasurable as eating (or drinking) caramelized sugars...
@@kb2vca Your commentary is super useful, so thanks a ton. I especially love this part: > Depending on how you heat the honey you will need to measure the temperature towards BOTH the top and the bottom but you might consider cooking the honey in your oven - it heats more evenly thataway. possibly bizarre and ill-founded question: what about sous vide the honey to say 230F? I've not used one of the devices before but my guess is this won't work because I'd think they're calibrated for water basically
@@johnburke8337, Thanks. Short answer to your question is I don't know. I have never used a sous vide but if you CAN set the temperature then you can set it and it should not care whether you are cooking honey OR seitan (I am a vegetarian so I won't talk about meat ;-), BUT if a sous vide works by heating water then it cannot cook at hotter than 212 F . Now, it might be able to apply enough energy to the honey because technically you CAN caramelize honey by heating it to 122 F for 48 hours according to John Skinner at the U of Tennessee. I have never tried that because my oven cannot go below 170 but Skinner says that all the sugars are caramelized at 122 (though he also warns that when you heat honey above 98.6 F you destroy almost 200 compounds in the honey - so for a bochet I think you want to use a less expensive variety).
Thank! I was thinking on new darker Mead. Have you tried to use high pH liquid (calcium hydroxide solution) to Millard color increase? Something like candy sugar (Belgian ales uses it)
@@ManMadeMead I meant that in the question LOL I hope you don't think I was rude I'm trying to perfect my clarifying method at the moment I'm going to try gelatin and then I'm going to try sparkolloid
Great video as usual
One comment: when you bochet, you don't evaporate honey, you dehydrate it an caramelize it. You don't technically lose sugar, some of them undergo the Maillard reaction but are still there. As long as it is not fuming black (evidence of carbon), it is only water you evaporate. It may seem counter-intuitive but in extreme conditions (like 90% of sugar), water will not boil att 100C but much higher and the more water you evaporate, the higher the temperature needs to be to evaporate some more.
Cheers
I'm legit happy you made this as I was thinking about doing it later in the year!!
You should definitely try it!
Cream de tartar is used to lower the pH. You can use a bit of lemon or lime juice or pure ctric acid to do the same.
Oh I can't wait to make my first bochet. That and acerglyn are my learning goals.
Excited to try this! Thanks!
Let me know how you like it!
I've really been enjoying making mead and this will be my next one. Thanks. Mead is coming!
I loved this longer video and breakdown! Going to try making this one soon.
Let me know how you like it!
cream of tartar is a buffering alternative to potassium carbonate so that the PH doesn't drop too much and make it overly acidic or stall the yeast.
Oh really?? That makes sense! Thank you for explaining that!
@@ManMadeMead www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/calcium-carbonate-vs-potassium-carbonate-vs-potassium-bicarbonate.159802/
So happy to see a Bochet come out again! I've been trying to master them recently and think they are intensely fun, definitely a bit of work to dial in. Definitely thought this was going to be a Black Currant Mead coming in (because of the common name).
Quick question: Do you boil the honey directly or mix some water in before the boil? I haven't noticed serious changes to flavor, but it gives me a slightly better control over the boil, and I'm thinking it experimenting with steeping flavor additions (like spices) during the early parts of the boil. Which way do you go about this, and have you experimented with steeping things like this during the boil?
From everything I have read and seen you don't sad water until after it is done cooking, so that is why I have never added water until the end. Since they use to boil the mead with all the water back in the day and from your own experience I can't see that it would harm it, but just from cooking experience if you add water it will slow down the cooking. A scenario if you made two right next to each other and one you added water and one you didn't, the one you didn't add water to would be a little more bocheted.
I love the idea of adding the spices to it while it is cooking and I have thought about doing it and for some reason I have not. Please post the results if you do it
@@andrewcotton1651 With patience, I get the same color, the slowed timeframe is exactly what I wanted though.
I think my next step is going to be gauging the rough percentages of different kinds of sugars in honey, they studying up on their properties. From nascent reading, the cooking will cause hydrolysis in the sugars which allows for the caramelizing. The hypothesis I want to test is if I control the temperature very attentively, can I arrive at similar colors with only say the glucose hydrolysing, or maybe I can help break down some of the sucrose in interesting ways. Essentially, how can I use scientific understanding to really dial in the boil before my brew. I want to master this.
@@johnburke8337 patience is the key and the more control you can have the better, gives more possibility to repeat and get similar results.
I love the idea of your experiment, but it is not going to be easy. Every honey has a different percentage in its sugars even if you get it from the same hive just a slight different time period. Without access to a lab will make it difficult because you'll need to know the percentages for each honey that you put in, but if you can get that narrowed down then you should be able to truly make a copy of a recipe.
One thing with your experiment that I would suggest you adjust it is instead of looking for the same color, focus more on just the sugar breakdown that you want, you can always do stuff to adjust the color that will have less impact on the Brew then the cooking of the sugar. Plus the thing that is most interesting about a brochat is the complexity that you get from the caramelization of the sugar.
I think your experiment if it all works out could be amazing and if you're able to master the brew that way all the better and I would love to see and taste the results, if you're ever in the area of New Mexico hit me up.
@@andrewcotton1651 Thanks for the encouragement! I like the idea of this challenge, so I want to dive in. Would that I had more buckets and carboys lol
It also seems like that South Central (I'm not letting TX edge you guys out) region is the hot bed for mead development rn. hopefully I can get things rolling in Boston haha
Your video editing chops are impressive.
Thank you!!
Sounds delicious. Printed off the recipe.
Starting as soon as my latest experiment is completed..
Currently I have developed a mead that is made from 2 oz of homemade chocolate extract, 2oz homemade Vanille extract and 2 oz homemade blackwalnut extract. Used 5 1/2 lbs of Mesquite Honey. Rather interesting flavor at this point in time. 4 months in.
That sounds super good!
Really enjoy your videos, and might give this a try! Was wondering if you ever add campden tablets or potassium sorbate in any of your recipes? Any advice on that? Thanks again. :)
Yes I have! I use it to stabilize meads before backsweetening. I would advise to use 1 tsp of sorbate and 1 campden tablet per gallon!
Just curious but how do you know the Honey is only from Clover ?
I have Bees and so far, no matter how much I explain to my Bees to only go for this flower or that one they do as they please and I end up with a mix of what ever flowers are in the 3 mile radius ;)
I’m totally trusting the manufacturer! Haha
@@ManMadeMead I did a little research and found the regulations, as long as a Honey has at least 50% of a set flower, you can call it that flavour.
So if you have 50% Iron Bark then you can call it Iron Bark Honey.
Or same with Clover or Citrus Blossom.
I bet they don't do that many tests and they blend their Honeys any way so that it all tastes the same for that Batch.
I was curious and at least now I know I can name my Raw Honeys depending on what the main plant is in Flower.
We have a lot of Bananas in my area so I can label one of my Harvests as Banana Honey :) Cheers
So if you say it stopped and reached 11% could we just consume this at 2 weeks? Awesome video thanks, I’ll be making this for sure
Mine reached 11% by 2 weeks! It depends on how healthy your yeast are and how well they ferment. You should definitely make this!
Good Job dude
Thank you!
I only ever tried bochet once and I wasn't a fan - but I'm willing to give it another go, one can't define one's tastes by one experience, after all, lol.
You should definitely try it again! I would suggest a Bochet with less time though - this one can be niche!
I’m confused. How/why did the gravity drop again during aging? There must’ve been a secondary fermentation before you back sweetened, so what did the final abv end up at? Also, will you follow up to let us know if it fermented yet again after the back sweetening? Thanks!
It could have been a faulty gravity reading on my end, or the yeast could have woken back up and fermented again. The final ABV after backsweetening with 1.015 again. I’ll give you an update in the future!
Did I see the peppercorns were added whole? My first one gallon Bochet is about to enter secondary. Very caramel forward right now. Considering adding peppercorns.
I think that could be interesting!
There's a small meadery in Texas that does a black mead by bocheting the crap out of the honey like this. It tasted like butt cheeks. Definitely the worst mead I've ever had. Hope yours turns out better!
Oh man! I think mine ended up being good with age and some backsweetening!
I believe the Cream of Tartar is also used as a fermentation starter. Its a form of Potassium. Its probably being used in place of yeast nutrient. Which is why yeast nutrient is not on the original recipe.
Interesting! I didn’t realize that!
@@ManMadeMead you already know the cream of tartar is a byproduct of grape fermentation. I'm thinking its an extension of using dregs as a yeast starter in beer and wine making.
Are you just constantly wasted? I can't make my mead as fast as I can drink it haha, good video btw. You rock.
Thankfully not! I try a lot of mead, but I try to drink it responsibly!
@@ManMadeMead Responsible. It can get tricky to stay in control when surrounded by gallons of your own heavenly goodness haha.
Just curious how it finished fermenting after only two weeks? Is that because you heated the honey first before pouring? Would it have taken longer for the yeast to eaten the yeast if it wasn't heated? I'm just curious. I think clover honey would be a great neutral honey, especially if heating. I'd imagine heating honey with more interesting flavors like orange blossom or buckwheat would waste those fragile flavors that make those honeys unique in flavors. I hope it turns out well though after aging.
Heating honey doesn't really change it (unless you get to bochet temperatures) but it is possible that since there is so much caramelized sugar that won't be fermented, that the 1.100 reading isn't totally accurate.
And yeah making a bochet with more of the varietal flavors does waste a lot of the special flavor, but if you only lightly caramelize you can still keep a bit of the flavor.
It finished in 2 weeks because the yeast were healthy, had nutrients and generally just fermented easily! The process generally just changes the honey character (and makes some sugars non-fermentable).
@@ManMadeMead thanks for the info! And the vid.
EC1118 is a bulldozer.
I find that cardamom pods have more freshness in the taste than the powdered one, it guive a little menthol / camphr Note I like it in cysers try it !
I definitely should have tried the pod!
What type of oak did you end up using?
French Oak - Medium Toast!
Do you think you could make a hp butter beer as a mead?
I definitely think you can!
Cream of tartar is equivalent to acid ie,lemon juice
why did you choose to not rehydrate and stagger nutrients?
Laziness... haha
I'm pretty sure a black mead is another word for a black currant mead, but still a very good video
You are right!
Honey can't evaporate, what you're likely seeing is the evaporation of some of the water in the honey. When this happens the honey will crystallize, and rehydrating it will bring it back to a syrupy state.
Sorry, but at some point you are no longer caramelizing "every sugar of the honey". You are burning the sugars. Ever burnt toast? That is what you are doing when you aim for a burnt offering rather than a bochet. You are burning the sugars. To caramelize honey you need only to raise the temperature of the honey to 230 F to caramelize the fructose (40% of the honey) or to 320 F to caramelize the glucose (33%) and the sucrose and the galactose. Color wheels are great for studio arts but for mead makers you really want a thermometer. My guess is that this "bochet" is going to be more bitter than Dickens' Miss Havisham.
It had a slight bitter taste, but nothing that was overwhelming. It actually turned out to be amazing! Thanks for the comment. I always hear some new statement from your comments!
@@ManMadeMead I guess I am a little surprised. Competition judges invariably reject bochets that use burnt honey as undrinkable and the science supports the idea that caramelization does not require nearly as much heat as those who make mead often assume (at least many of those who self publish blogs and the like assume). Try caramelizing table sugar for even one hour. True - there is no water in table sugar to protect the sugar from literally becoming carbon. But carbonization is not the same as caramelization. And here's the thing: science is replicable. AND it does not depend on the one performing the experiment. Take a pound of honey and a thermometer and heat the honey to 230 AND /or 320 (for less or more sugars in the honey to be caramelized) and taste the result. Depending on how you heat the honey you will need to measure the temperature towards BOTH the top and the bottom but you might consider cooking the honey in your oven - it heats more evenly thataway.
I once worked for a fellow who ate burnt toast for breakfast. It had to be black. It had to be burnt. But he had a digestive problem. He never ever said that he enjoyed burnt toast. Does anyone? Eating (or drinking) carbon is not nearly as pleasurable as eating (or drinking) caramelized sugars...
@@kb2vca Your commentary is super useful, so thanks a ton. I especially love this part:
> Depending on how you heat the honey you will need to measure the temperature towards BOTH the top and the bottom but you might consider cooking the honey in your oven - it heats more evenly thataway.
possibly bizarre and ill-founded question: what about sous vide the honey to say 230F? I've not used one of the devices before but my guess is this won't work because I'd think they're calibrated for water basically
@@johnburke8337, Thanks. Short answer to your question is I don't know. I have never used a sous vide but if you CAN set the temperature then you can set it and it should not care whether you are cooking honey OR seitan (I am a vegetarian so I won't talk about meat ;-), BUT if a sous vide works by heating water then it cannot cook at hotter than 212 F . Now, it might be able to apply enough energy to the honey because technically you CAN caramelize honey by heating it to 122 F for 48 hours according to John Skinner at the U of Tennessee. I have never tried that because my oven cannot go below 170 but Skinner says that all the sugars are caramelized at 122 (though he also warns that when you heat honey above 98.6 F you destroy almost 200 compounds in the honey - so for a bochet I think you want to use a less expensive variety).
☺♥
WinTeR IS CoMiNG
Thank!
I was thinking on new darker Mead.
Have you tried to use high pH liquid (calcium hydroxide solution) to Millard color increase? Something like candy sugar (Belgian ales uses it)
I can't say I've tried that yet!
I have not watched one episode of the show but curious as to how this is gonna turn out
Ummmm..
..of course everything is sterilised at this point…. 3:05 …
Then wipes nose with hand. 😱 😂 🖖
Yeah... that was a bit of a goof haha
crystalized ginger has sugar
Yes it does!
Don't worry about spoiling a show that came out many many years ago.
True! Haha
So you don't clarify your Mead
I do more clarifying now a days than I did before!
@@ManMadeMead I meant that in the question LOL I hope you don't think I was rude I'm trying to perfect my clarifying method at the moment I'm going to try gelatin and then I'm going to try sparkolloid