So glad to see you back Phylaris - big fan and very appreciative of your work since you first appeared at Neace's bootcamps. Maybe you should consider running your own for just jungle. I know you put in enough work with Neace's to do one.
I might try this on Shyvana. Since every jungler is going for Grubs first instead of dragon I could do the reverse clear, always have camps up, and get dragon safely. Plus Shyvana's ganks aren't all that great so I might even be able to invade the enemy jungle too after my first item completion
Yeah - I call it the Grub path but realistically, being done with all your camps and level 5 at 5:00 timer is generally just a good spot to be in at the moment. Even if you're saccing Grubs, you can potentially do drake, gank/dive enemy bot, or invade the camps the enemy jungler left up, without having to leave your own camps uncleared. It has conditionals regardless of when and why you run it, but let me know how it goes!
@@Phylaris for sure! That said ik I'm not a good enough jungler yet with my clear speeds. I need to get better at kiting to make the most use out of it
I was thinking the same thing. Have you had a chance to try it out yet? It would be great to hear about your experience with choosing runes (especially the small ones) and about buying early, as well as pumping skills at the first three levels.
It's good to see you're back! Somehow I didn't see your videos until now. I've tried this path in practice tool with Graves and Lillia but I'm always 10-15 seconds late for crabs. Maybe I'llget the time down with some practice. At any rate, this video has given me some inspiration to try more diverse pathing again and have more fun in the jungle. Lately I mostly full cleared on my first rotation with the occassional free gank in-between quadrants or 3/4 camp clears on tank junglers.
If you're very late for crab, either the path isn't applicable for your champion (Graves is too slow), your clearing needs work, or you can just recall after Krugs and skip the crab, since first crab isn't that valuable.
Points to add: You can skip scuttle entirely if you want to get a gank off or you are shoved off by enemy priority and still get level 5 off the second 3 camp clear. If you ARE able to get a scuttle, clearing the grubs and your krugs gives you level 6 after a base.
Nice to see you back Phylaris! Missed you especially with this new season and having to figure out stuff on my own. I learned a lot from you and Neace! Have you heard anything from him? Hope he's doing well and returns soon. I need to see more high elo students getting yelled at for having a big ego!! Cheers!
Glad to see you are back! Personally I'm a big fan of the dark seal path where you get to scuttle with a dark seal at lvl 4 (you can do it with champs like voli, diana, gwen, and some more) but as a lillia player it seems really good to try
@alessandropierro8160 Not many champs can do it before scuttle spawns, the path is: Raptors - Golems - Red - Recall for dark seal (or another cheap item) - Wolves - Grump - Blue
@@Teapotion it seems a lot harder with briar, the best i could do is 3:35 with a Raptors-Red-Golems-Recall for sword-Wolves-Grump-Blue path, but someone with perfect clear might be able to make it to scuttle in time, i dont recommend tho since the slightest error will ruin the clear
Glad to see you're barack. Also this is a really nice strategy, super big payoff if it works but it has a ton of variables that can screw it up. Also also this patch made it so the restart game button on the practice tool also resets the game timer so now I can practice my clears however much i want. Also also also balls
Yep. It's a really specific clear; there are multiple pros and cons that I didn't mention here since I didn't want to make the video too complicated. Vision, invades, weakside/strongside, etc. play a large part in when you'd want to run or avoid this kind of path. I only use it now and then, but I think it's good to know all available options. It helps that it presents a secondary route from typical Raptor/Wolf openings, so that you have multiple flex paths from the same starting camps.
Cool path, the only extra downside I can see is that the scuttle crab will be taken at the grubs by the enemy. So doing this on hecarim would show your location which could leave you vulnerable if you lack top/mid lane prios.
Losing top crab is for sure a consideration, but it's good to keep in mind you're not by any means guaranteed to win a fight for top crab even if you path up first rotation. If you have a significant early power advantage topside, I don't think it makes sense to go for the Grub path when you can simply fullclear upwards, play off your strong lanes and ensure they can safely get good crash and recall timers off, then sequence back up and simply win the Grub fight off of your advantageous solos. If you have a hard-losing topside, I would never path to play for Grubs in the first place, whether that be fullclearing towards top or the Grub path. I'd just clear down and look to handshake Drake or a bot dive on the Grub timer. If you have a fairly neutral, or slightly losing topside 3v3, that's when I'd consider the Grub path personally. Rather than flipping a 40/60 or 50/50 fight for top crab, you can Grub path, secure your botlane a good recall off your proximity at bot crab to set up potential support move on Grub timer, and secure yourself a level 5 advantage + good sequencing heading into Grubs on spawn.
sweet vid! I have been doing something similar being rapts, krug, red, wolf, gromp, blue, scuttle, rapts, krug, reset w/ 1300 gold. grubs full clear down bot gank. Demoed this in my last vid claiming triforce > hexplate on noc lol This def arrives on grubs a little faster, but with less gold spent. Good to have another clear in the playbook :)
Ya I do the standard Rap>Krug farm open into Grubs sometimes. That one enters a bit late if you want to be level 5 since you need to grab a camp first before you head to Grubs, but it's great if your jungler really wants an ~1100 base. I think Triforce is very mediocre on Nocturne. He has some of the lowest base AD of any melee champion, and has long cooldowns that make Sheen items pretty suboptimal on him. I think if you don't like Hexplate rush (valid, it's not strong when you aren't ulting into a fight), Eclipse rush is something multiple high elo Noc mains like Autophil have been doing instead.
@@Phylaris awesome, I'll check out that build path and look into autophil. I agree that it is an awkward item for him. When checking the damage using Lethal tempo at lvl 6 I found triforce ult did more damage than hexplate for the first 3 seconds, and again more damage after 6, but hexplate did more from the 3s to 6s range, but the diff was grudge > bruiser items, but keeping LT instead of electrocute. I feel way more powerful but come 25 mins I am missing the hp
@@Kywu when looping back on rapts as they spawn if you go red first then you will have to wait 15 seconds for krugs or so. If you recall in that down time then your top is up so you have to skip krugs putting you down a camp from inefficient sequencing. Good question, it used to confuse me too :)
another big problem on this path I see is that you leave the top scuttle to the other jungle always, so he always will have vision of you comming in the baron pit, unless u can jump the wall (pin jump plant is not alive yet)
If you search through the comments a little bit there's a couple similar ones where I addressed the pros/cons of this. But you're correct - giving top crab is a consideration in when you should/shouldn't attempt the path. You're mostly looking to sac it when it would've been unlikely for you to get it in the first place, due to early topside power deificit.
Very interesting what I havr found also somewhat works is a no back 1.5 full clear I have done this with nocturn since he has good speed in the jungle with q but you can full clear at the start and go scuttle bot scuttle krugs again because they spawn when you walk back. Crows, recall, get tiamat, and then wolves gromp and i arrive at grubs like 2 seconds after they spawn so even if I find the enemy jungle at their spawn im already a level over with tiamat. The trick is just using his q for speed all the time off cooldown to race back to krugs. Even going through the midlane which also builds pressure
Most of the fullclear junglers can run it situationally, though some will be late to crab and should consider skipping it and recalling instead, to avoid being late to Raps respawn.
She's a bit slow and may have to skip crab to hit the intervals properly. Bel would rather play for early gank/invade flexibility, though. She's not really an early powerfarmer - she's alright with it if there's no good options, but her preferred option is to find some action.
Sounds good, but I can't seem to recreate hitting Grubs on spawn if I go for the botside crab - if I skip it, I barely make it. This goes for Diana and Vi. Are they just a lot slower than Brand/Hecarim?
Vi absolutely should not go for this path. She's a very slow-clearing jungler early with mediocre AOE, and is very slow at Grubs too. Diana should be a little slower than Hecarim on this path - not too bad, but she will be slightly late to crab.
I'd just keep it simple if you're really low ELO. Linear fullclear from one side to the other depending on which half of the map you'd rather end up on, and work on increasing your competence at clearing in practice tool. Don't worry too much about a bunch of alternate pathing options at your rank - it's better to keep things stable and work on your fundamentals.
you have time to gank/base after 3rd or 4th camp bc getting crab on spawn does not contribute to getting level 5 in time for grubs. if you opt for base you usually have enough time to take the other crab. if you opt for gank you might lose double crab but obviously you are better off with a kill. if enemy starts same side as you you can also invade enemy krugs after you kill blue and base in time for crab spawn.
The two potential gank/cover timers are after Blue, and right after Krugs instead of doing crab yeah. And yep, the crab is not necessary for getting level 5. Still nice to grab one of course, but as you said, if there's a free kill that's a lot better than a crab.
If you do this route theres no chance the void grub scuttle is still up - so you wouldn't manage to maintain hecarim's Q stacks and get this time in a real game. You will also be advertising to enemy team what you are doing so there's risk of collapse, however, having level 5 for this fight is absolutely massive. Smart idea and I'm gonna have to try it out.
I just hit the crab for fun because I finished the clear too early lol. All you would do in an actual game is delay the Gromp kill for a few seconds so you can maintain Q stacks from Gromp into the Grubs. Realistically most Hecarim players wouldn't have to intentionally delay the Gromp kill anyhow - I have a really practiced clear so if you add in a few mistakes here and there for a more realistic Hecarim clear, people will be arriving roughly as Grubs spawn instead of getting there early as shown here.
@@Phylaris I didnt realise you can maintain stacks from gromp to grubs with spacing,, that's huge. Thanks for the video, keep them coming dude. You should make more content - like your video style
I see another potential problem with this path. Let's say you on the blue side like in this video and do this path then you will end up at the dragon scuttle at 3:30. However, if your opponent start on their blue buff then they will have the grubs scuttle so you'll be seen while doing the grubs at 5:00. Since the scuttle now spawns at 3:32 and takes 5-15 seconds to kill (depends on smite) and the vision last for 90 seconds.
Nah Karthus for sure would just want to Blue->Krugs most of the time, and either invade enemy jungle on his Blue/Gromp if the situation allows, or recall for items and run to crab to fistfight with his item lead.
You're correct - that's why if you expect a second spawn Raptor invade, you would only do this on champions that are fast enough to reach Raps roughly as they spawn. Here, if they went for my Raps after crab there's a heavy chance they'd die for it, as I'm coming in just a couple seconds after the Raps spawn with T2 boots.
which shards do u use? my clear is like 5s slower at peak and I'm thinking is this a shard diff? is the new movement speed shard vs adaptive make negative difference for first clears on Heca? and I also use haste in first slot because I feel like build I use lack haste more than ad I could test it on practice but I'm currently away from home so maybe u will respond earlier :D
You don't get level 5 from a FC>crab into single quadrant - you'll be level 4 entering Grubs. You'll also have split spawns with your botside camps sitting there, which in addition to being inefficient can also lead to them being stolen. You can't just vertical simply because your bot camps are taken - if the enemy jungler also pathed top to bot, there's nothing for you to trade for as his second spawn topside is already gone. This is not at all to say that fullclearing top to bot is worse than the Grub path - they just have very different pros, cons, and usage cases.
In My server usually the opposite jungler always fight for grubs as well... So... If You path like that... You lose topside crab, SO if You go on grubs, the other team Will know cuz You go for the botside one. So how You manage to do grubs with the crab visión of the opposite team? Ty
Losing top crab is for sure a consideration, but it's good to keep in mind you're not by any means guaranteed to win a fight for top crab even if you path up first rotation. If you have a significant early power advantage topside, I don't think it makes sense to go for the Grub path when you can simply fullclear upwards, play off your strong lanes and ensure they can safely get good crash and recall timers off, then sequence back up and simply win the Grub fight off of your advantageous solos. If you have a hard-losing topside, I would never path to play for Grubs in the first place, whether that be fullclearing towards top or the Grub path. I'd just clear down and look to handshake Drake or a bot dive on the Grub timer. If you have a fairly neutral, or slightly losing topside 3v3, that's when I'd consider the Grub path personally. Rather than flipping a 40/60 or 50/50 fight for top crab, you can Grub path, secure your botlane a good recall off your proximity at bot crab to set up potential support move on Grub timer, and secure yourself a level 5 advantage + good sequencing heading into Grubs on spawn. That should hopefully be enough of a power advantage that the enemy having vision on Grubs doesn't matter.
@@Phylaristhanks! so... im only bronze... how do you tell whether your team is splitpush or 5v5 deathball? i know yorick is splitpush, but thats about it
Udyr, Lillia, etc. do them just as quickly. I do think Hecarim is great along this path, but I actually think some of his standard pathing options are stronger than this most of the time. He fullclears Blue to Krugs in ~3:00 leashless, so he can just insta-recall and sprint to crab to contest it with items Karthus-style. That's the opening I do most often on him at the moment.
@@Phylaris I see. Side note, do you think hecarim is strong rn? I’ve been having success with the same build as last szn with phaserush and shojin eclipse core or conqueror with trinity shojin frozen heart core depending on game but I feel like his damage is pretty underwhelming. What are you running on him rn?
@@bany8501 I think he's decent but not great. His main items lost a decent amount of AH. Regardless of whether he's going bruiser or assassin, he lost a step. He doesn't synergize with the current lethality items as well as he did with S13 Ghostblade/Duskblade, and his bruiser builds are for the most part just weaker versions of the Stridebreaker/Sunderer bruiser builds from last season. There's lots of Hec builds you can opt for at the moment, but for the most part I just run Shojin-Eclipse into flex. In Patch 14.3 in a few weeks, the Sundered Sky bug is getting fixed and Eclipse is getting nerfed, so Sundered will probably just replace Eclipse as his non-Triforce core. Some kind of Conq Tri-Sundered build might also feel okay, since it can be kind of difficult to proc Sundered effectively in teamfights without a bit of attack speed.
i really struggle to get this clear in time as lillia, im consistently about 5-10 seconds late to crab and therefore late for grubs. is it still worth?
Seeing Hec being lvl5 clearing the grubs full hp and full 10 seconds faster than Poppy. I still will never understand why Poppy’s jg clear got nerfed back in 12.16. I still hold that grudge lol.
Ahoi ! Lillia main here. Tbh, I got interested by what you said, but I feel that the 1st grubs are not worth for Lillia unless it is free.. Right ? So, I wouldn't go for this at all. I feel like as long as she gets at least 2/6 of them, it doesn't matter if it's first or second grubs. But idk ?
Was waiting for someone to cook a hecarim path to grubs given how fast he clears them, gotta say you delivered lol
okay that's insane, well cooked, 5:15 grubs is out of this world
Why did RUclips give you a hyperlink even though the video is only 4 min long
@@spider_h8s_spiders958 because if you type numbers in that way it autoformats to a time in the video. Like 50:50
So glad to see you back Phylaris - big fan and very appreciative of your work since you first appeared at Neace's bootcamps. Maybe you should consider running your own for just jungle. I know you put in enough work with Neace's to do one.
The legend returns!
Ph recognize Ph.
I think next season we should add 2 more camps with 4000hp to clear. Jungle has too much downtime atm
I might try this on Shyvana. Since every jungler is going for Grubs first instead of dragon I could do the reverse clear, always have camps up, and get dragon safely. Plus Shyvana's ganks aren't all that great so I might even be able to invade the enemy jungle too after my first item completion
Yeah - I call it the Grub path but realistically, being done with all your camps and level 5 at 5:00 timer is generally just a good spot to be in at the moment. Even if you're saccing Grubs, you can potentially do drake, gank/dive enemy bot, or invade the camps the enemy jungler left up, without having to leave your own camps uncleared.
It has conditionals regardless of when and why you run it, but let me know how it goes!
@@Phylaris for sure! That said ik I'm not a good enough jungler yet with my clear speeds. I need to get better at kiting to make the most use out of it
shyvana probably doesnt clear fast enough
@@titanattackbee1985 I ll try ( i was otp shyv), I know how to clear jg with her efficiently, I think she s able to do it too
I was thinking the same thing. Have you had a chance to try it out yet? It would be great to hear about your experience with choosing runes (especially the small ones) and about buying early, as well as pumping skills at the first three levels.
Just did this. Amazed my team and went 5/0/6 with Hecarim they ff at 15 XD thx dude
Man, did you just read my mind?!! I’ve been literally thinking bout this path for a while now today, thanks for the confirmation!!!
This is pretty cool. I had the idea running in my head but nice to see it in action. Welcome back btw!
Yo that play at 6:15 was crazy. Your the goat.
It's good to see you're back! Somehow I didn't see your videos until now. I've tried this path in practice tool with Graves and Lillia but I'm always 10-15 seconds late for crabs. Maybe I'llget the time down with some practice. At any rate, this video has given me some inspiration to try more diverse pathing again and have more fun in the jungle. Lately I mostly full cleared on my first rotation with the occassional free gank in-between quadrants or 3/4 camp clears on tank junglers.
If you're very late for crab, either the path isn't applicable for your champion (Graves is too slow), your clearing needs work, or you can just recall after Krugs and skip the crab, since first crab isn't that valuable.
Points to add: You can skip scuttle entirely if you want to get a gank off or you are shoved off by enemy priority and still get level 5 off the second 3 camp clear. If you ARE able to get a scuttle, clearing the grubs and your krugs gives you level 6 after a base.
that is big, thanks
ITS EXACTLY WHAT I'VE BEEN LOOKING FOR TY
Nice to see you back Phylaris! Missed you especially with this new season and having to figure out stuff on my own. I learned a lot from you and Neace! Have you heard anything from him? Hope he's doing well and returns soon. I need to see more high elo students getting yelled at for having a big ego!! Cheers!
I don't think Neace is coming back, but I don't know.
there is 0% chance that neace is not coming back lol. He loves that sh*t, he will definitely return
It was a long time since the last video Phylaris, what a long break. Good to know that you're back ! Keep doing
Glad to see you are back! Personally I'm a big fan of the dark seal path where you get to scuttle with a dark seal at lvl 4 (you can do it with champs like voli, diana, gwen, and some more) but as a lillia player it seems really good to try
What would that be excactly?
@alessandropierro8160 Not many champs can do it before scuttle spawns, the path is: Raptors - Golems - Red - Recall for dark seal (or another cheap item) - Wolves - Grump - Blue
Is this a good idea on Briar?
@@Teapotion it seems a lot harder with briar, the best i could do is 3:35 with a Raptors-Red-Golems-Recall for sword-Wolves-Grump-Blue path, but someone with perfect clear might be able to make it to scuttle in time, i dont recommend tho since the slightest error will ruin the clear
@@Teapotion Why would you want a Dark Seal on Briar? It's an AD champ.
Hi guys.
Good to see you
Welcome back I had the chance to follow one of your bootcamps and it was fantastic
Welcome back goat
Hello. I'm kinda interested in playing jungle role. Can you recommend a champion for a beginner?
@@FindOSUBeatmapsHere Nocturne or Trundle are super easy pickups that are fairly strong at the moment, but you can really pick whatever you find fun.
Glad to see you're barack. Also this is a really nice strategy, super big payoff if it works but it has a ton of variables that can screw it up. Also also this patch made it so the restart game button on the practice tool also resets the game timer so now I can practice my clears however much i want. Also also also balls
Yep. It's a really specific clear; there are multiple pros and cons that I didn't mention here since I didn't want to make the video too complicated. Vision, invades, weakside/strongside, etc. play a large part in when you'd want to run or avoid this kind of path. I only use it now and then, but I think it's good to know all available options. It helps that it presents a secondary route from typical Raptor/Wolf openings, so that you have multiple flex paths from the same starting camps.
Oh shit, that's obama himself
Hope everything in your life is fine / figured out again! Anyways missed your content and this is another great guide from you.
Its been a while. Glad to see you back
Glad to see you back!!
Cool path, the only extra downside I can see is that the scuttle crab will be taken at the grubs by the enemy. So doing this on hecarim would show your location which could leave you vulnerable if you lack top/mid lane prios.
yeah or if an enemy jungler is strong enough to kill you at grubs.
Losing top crab is for sure a consideration, but it's good to keep in mind you're not
by any means guaranteed to win a fight for top crab even if you path up first rotation. If you have a significant early power advantage topside, I don't think it makes sense to go for the Grub path when you can simply fullclear upwards, play off your strong lanes and ensure they can safely get good crash and recall timers off, then sequence back up and simply win the Grub fight off of your advantageous solos.
If you have a hard-losing topside, I would never path to play for Grubs in the first place, whether that be fullclearing towards top or the Grub path. I'd just clear down and look to handshake Drake or a bot dive on the Grub timer.
If you have a fairly neutral, or slightly losing topside 3v3, that's when I'd consider the Grub path personally. Rather than flipping a 40/60 or 50/50 fight for top crab, you can Grub path, secure your botlane a good recall off your proximity at bot crab to set up potential support move on Grub timer, and secure yourself a level 5 advantage + good sequencing heading into Grubs on spawn.
Im so happy youre back!
2:16 the crab is embracing his true power and now can use flash
Nice! I have been waiting for this
Amazing!
Wow, this is insane!
This is really smart and well explained. Gonna test this in my games. +1 and subbed. We’ll done.
Welcome back bro! You were missed!
the crab used Flash 🔥🔥
this looks so weird but youve convinced me i should give it a try
Glad you're back
Thanks for this just won Clash doing this in 2 of my games :)
THE MAN IS BACK
Duuude, this is awesome. Thanks a lot
this videos are soo good and educational!!
My hero is back!
Good informative video, keep it up bro!
Goat is back
sweet vid! I have been doing something similar being rapts, krug, red, wolf, gromp, blue, scuttle, rapts, krug, reset w/ 1300 gold. grubs full clear down bot gank. Demoed this in my last vid claiming triforce > hexplate on noc lol
This def arrives on grubs a little faster, but with less gold spent. Good to have another clear in the playbook :)
Ya I do the standard Rap>Krug farm open into Grubs sometimes. That one enters a bit late if you want to be level 5 since you need to grab a camp first before you head to Grubs, but it's great if your jungler really wants an ~1100 base.
I think Triforce is very mediocre on Nocturne. He has some of the lowest base AD of any melee champion, and has long cooldowns that make Sheen items pretty suboptimal on him. I think if you don't like Hexplate rush (valid, it's not strong when you aren't ulting into a fight), Eclipse rush is something multiple high elo Noc mains like Autophil have been doing instead.
@@Phylaris awesome, I'll check out that build path and look into autophil.
I agree that it is an awkward item for him. When checking the damage using Lethal tempo at lvl 6 I found triforce ult did more damage than hexplate for the first 3 seconds, and again more damage after 6, but hexplate did more from the 3s to 6s range, but the diff was grudge > bruiser items, but keeping LT instead of electrocute. I feel way more powerful but come 25 mins I am missing the hp
why doing krug before red tho
@@Kywu when looping back on rapts as they spawn if you go red first then you will have to wait 15 seconds for krugs or so. If you recall in that down time then your top is up so you have to skip krugs putting you down a camp from inefficient sequencing. Good question, it used to confuse me too :)
i see, thanks @@ggShini
Welcome back dad!
smart thx bro🔥🔥
This is going to blow up.
Why don’t you base with 500g for long sword/amp tome?
Slower overall + weaker inventory for Grub fight than a 900g base.
The scuttle flashed
In to support the jungle MVP.
Amazing
another big problem on this path I see is that you leave the top scuttle to the other jungle always, so he always will have vision of you comming in the baron pit, unless u can jump the wall (pin jump plant is not alive yet)
If you search through the comments a little bit there's a couple similar ones where I addressed the pros/cons of this. But you're correct - giving top crab is a consideration in when you should/shouldn't attempt the path. You're mostly looking to sac it when it would've been unlikely for you to get it in the first place, due to early topside power deificit.
omg Phylaris is back
Very interesting what I havr found also somewhat works is a no back 1.5 full clear I have done this with nocturn since he has good speed in the jungle with q but you can full clear at the start and go scuttle bot scuttle krugs again because they spawn when you walk back. Crows, recall, get tiamat, and then wolves gromp and i arrive at grubs like 2 seconds after they spawn so even if I find the enemy jungle at their spawn im already a level over with tiamat. The trick is just using his q for speed all the time off cooldown to race back to krugs. Even going through the midlane which also builds pressure
I've adapted this for shyvana finishing on drake on spawn
Yeahh he is back !
Do you plan to add a "season 14" tab on the Jungle Clear Compilation spreadsheets ? :)
Maybe, we'll see if I find time. I'm not sure which junglers will swap into the MS% shard yet, which will affect their cleartimes negatively.
His alive!
Practice tool updates returned me to life.
Welcome back!!!!
interesting stuff, thanks!
Fantastic.
So glad to see you back, hope you're doing well
i was really waiting for you to come back 😢
im so glad you're returning. updated trynda path? lol
what are the other champs that you tried doing this path for ? (btw awesome video keep going)
Most of the fullclear junglers can run it situationally, though some will be late to crab and should consider skipping it and recalling instead, to avoid being late to Raps respawn.
Cool! But wont the enemies always have vision there from the scuttle crab?
Does it work on Bel'veth?
She's a bit slow and may have to skip crab to hit the intervals properly. Bel would rather play for early gank/invade flexibility, though. She's not really an early powerfarmer - she's alright with it if there's no good options, but her preferred option is to find some action.
Sounds good, but I can't seem to recreate hitting Grubs on spawn if I go for the botside crab - if I skip it, I barely make it.
This goes for Diana and Vi. Are they just a lot slower than Brand/Hecarim?
Vi absolutely should not go for this path. She's a very slow-clearing jungler early with mediocre AOE, and is very slow at Grubs too.
Diana should be a little slower than Hecarim on this path - not too bad, but she will be slightly late to crab.
@@Phylaris Thank you for the response, time to get good at efficiently clearing I guess
As a Lillia main, seems fun. But im scared my bronze ass doesnt make a clear as optimised as possible to make this worth
I'd just keep it simple if you're really low ELO. Linear fullclear from one side to the other depending on which half of the map you'd rather end up on, and work on increasing your competence at clearing in practice tool. Don't worry too much about a bunch of alternate pathing options at your rank - it's better to keep things stable and work on your fundamentals.
Watching this as an adc main, its a completely different language 😂
you have time to gank/base after 3rd or 4th camp bc getting crab on spawn does not contribute to getting level 5 in time for grubs.
if you opt for base you usually have enough time to take the other crab.
if you opt for gank you might lose double crab but obviously you are better off with a kill.
if enemy starts same side as you you can also invade enemy krugs after you kill blue and base in time for crab spawn.
you dont kill your respawning camps on time but you deny enemy jg level 4
The two potential gank/cover timers are after Blue, and right after Krugs instead of doing crab yeah.
And yep, the crab is not necessary for getting level 5. Still nice to grab one of course, but as you said, if there's a free kill that's a lot better than a crab.
i havent played this game in a while. since when tf could scuttle crabs flash? 2:15
They're tired of being killed.
Gunna try this with my twisted fate jungle
If you do this route theres no chance the void grub scuttle is still up - so you wouldn't manage to maintain hecarim's Q stacks and get this time in a real game. You will also be advertising to enemy team what you are doing so there's risk of collapse, however, having level 5 for this fight is absolutely massive. Smart idea and I'm gonna have to try it out.
I just hit the crab for fun because I finished the clear too early lol. All you would do in an actual game is delay the Gromp kill for a few seconds so you can maintain Q stacks from Gromp into the Grubs.
Realistically most Hecarim players wouldn't have to intentionally delay the Gromp kill anyhow - I have a really practiced clear so if you add in a few mistakes here and there for a more realistic Hecarim clear, people will be arriving roughly as Grubs spawn instead of getting there early as shown here.
@@Phylaris I didnt realise you can maintain stacks from gromp to grubs with spacing,, that's huge. Thanks for the video, keep them coming dude. You should make more content - like your video style
I see another potential problem with this path. Let's say you on the blue side like in this video and do this path then you will end up at the dragon scuttle at 3:30. However, if your opponent start on their blue buff then they will have the grubs scuttle so you'll be seen while doing the grubs at 5:00. Since the scuttle now spawns at 3:32 and takes 5-15 seconds to kill (depends on smite) and the vision last for 90 seconds.
If you poke around the comments a bit I've responded with my thoughts on this.
Fwiw, crab spawns at 3:30 again - it was fixed this patch.
is this viable on karthus? raptors start on him sound a bit awkward
Nah Karthus for sure would just want to Blue->Krugs most of the time, and either invade enemy jungle on his Blue/Gromp if the situation allows, or recall for items and run to crab to fistfight with his item lead.
brilliant
I wish i could do this clear on viego, don't know if its skill issue but I'm taking about 5:30 ish to complete the path
Cries in shaco who barely even does grubs at 6 with ult. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
This leaves me concerned my raptors may be taken by the jungler if they've cleared top to bot and rotate toward my raptors on their first clear.
You're correct - that's why if you expect a second spawn Raptor invade, you would only do this on champions that are fast enough to reach Raps roughly as they spawn. Here, if they went for my Raps after crab there's a heavy chance they'd die for it, as I'm coming in just a couple seconds after the Raps spawn with T2 boots.
which shards do u use? my clear is like 5s slower at peak and I'm thinking is this a shard diff?
is the new movement speed shard vs adaptive make negative difference for first clears on Heca?
and I also use haste in first slot because I feel like build I use lack haste more than ad
I could test it on practice but I'm currently away from home so maybe u will respond earlier :D
I use double adaptive. Haste and MS shards are both fine situationally, but they do slow down your early clears.
What overlay is that?
Blitz.gg. Porofessor has one as well.
cool pathing but my briar wont be able to abuse it sadly :(
Isn’t it more efficient to just top to bottom, ward bot, then top > grubs while seeing ward for vertical after if needed? Still get lvl 5
You don't get level 5 from a FC>crab into single quadrant - you'll be level 4 entering Grubs. You'll also have split spawns with your botside camps sitting there, which in addition to being inefficient can also lead to them being stolen.
You can't just vertical simply because your bot camps are taken - if the enemy jungler also pathed top to bot, there's nothing for you to trade for as his second spawn topside is already gone.
This is not at all to say that fullclearing top to bot is worse than the Grub path - they just have very different pros, cons, and usage cases.
what's that tool that shows you the timer over the camps?
Blitz overlay. Porofessor works too.
Just note that the top crab will prolly be taken by enemy jungler
GRUB GAP
Can this clear work on a Jungler like Graves ? I do not know if I can be fast enough for it.
In My server usually the opposite jungler always fight for grubs as well... So... If You path like that... You lose topside crab, SO if You go on grubs, the other team Will know cuz You go for the botside one.
So how You manage to do grubs with the crab visión of the opposite team?
Ty
Losing top crab is for sure a consideration, but it's good to keep in mind you're not
by any means guaranteed to win a fight for top crab even if you path up first rotation. If you have a significant early power advantage topside, I don't think it makes sense to go for the Grub path when you can simply fullclear upwards, play off your strong lanes and ensure they can safely get good crash and recall timers off, then sequence back up and simply win the Grub fight off of your advantageous solos.
If you have a hard-losing topside, I would never path to play for Grubs in the first place, whether that be fullclearing towards top or the Grub path. I'd just clear down and look to handshake Drake or a bot dive on the Grub timer.
If you have a fairly neutral, or slightly losing topside 3v3, that's when I'd consider the Grub path personally. Rather than flipping a 40/60 or 50/50 fight for top crab, you can Grub path, secure your botlane a good recall off your proximity at bot crab to set up potential support move on Grub timer, and secure yourself a level 5 advantage + good sequencing heading into Grubs on spawn. That should hopefully be enough of a power advantage that the enemy having vision on Grubs doesn't matter.
how do you know if your team comp is better with grubs or dragons?
Grubs are for pushing towers, so they suit siege and splitpush comps well. They're not so good for 5v5 deathball teamfight comps.
@@Phylaristhanks!
so... im only bronze... how do you tell whether your team is splitpush or 5v5 deathball?
i know yorick is splitpush, but thats about it
do you think hecarim is the best for this opener since he does 1st spawn grubs a lot faster than other junglers?
Udyr, Lillia, etc. do them just as quickly. I do think Hecarim is great along this path, but I actually think some of his standard pathing options are stronger than this most of the time. He fullclears Blue to Krugs in ~3:00 leashless, so he can just insta-recall and sprint to crab to contest it with items Karthus-style. That's the opening I do most often on him at the moment.
@@Phylaris I see. Side note, do you think hecarim is strong rn? I’ve been having success with the same build as last szn with phaserush and shojin eclipse core or conqueror with trinity shojin frozen heart core depending on game but I feel like his damage is pretty underwhelming. What are you running on him rn?
@@bany8501 I think he's decent but not great. His main items lost a decent amount of AH. Regardless of whether he's going bruiser or assassin, he lost a step. He doesn't synergize with the current lethality items as well as he did with S13 Ghostblade/Duskblade, and his bruiser builds are for the most part just weaker versions of the Stridebreaker/Sunderer bruiser builds from last season.
There's lots of Hec builds you can opt for at the moment, but for the most part I just run Shojin-Eclipse into flex. In Patch 14.3 in a few weeks, the Sundered Sky bug is getting fixed and Eclipse is getting nerfed, so Sundered will probably just replace Eclipse as his non-Triforce core.
Some kind of Conq Tri-Sundered build might also feel okay, since it can be kind of difficult to proc Sundered effectively in teamfights without a bit of attack speed.
i really struggle to get this clear in time as lillia, im consistently about 5-10 seconds late to crab and therefore late for grubs. is it still worth?
You can skip the crab and just recall (first crab isn't that valuable) or just don't do the path.
Seeing Hec being lvl5 clearing the grubs full hp and full 10 seconds faster than Poppy. I still will never understand why Poppy’s jg clear got nerfed back in 12.16. I still hold that grudge lol.
Update video on them spawning at 6 now?
Back to normal clears.
Pretty cool
I'm holding my thumbs hoping to see a Shyvana clear guide
Ahoi ! Lillia main here.
Tbh, I got interested by what you said, but I feel that the 1st grubs are not worth for Lillia unless it is free.. Right ? So, I wouldn't go for this at all. I feel like as long as she gets at least 2/6 of them, it doesn't matter if it's first or second grubs.
But idk ?
Is this a noc main channel? (Cuz of channel logo). I need more noc content, specifically clear paths, builds and mqtch ups
Would this work on Rengar?
Doubt it - he doesn't have a great AOE clear level 1.
Interesting.
Do you think brand can run this path?
Omgggggg i am gonna tag my fav esports team so that they do that
I call them the BAITgrubs. Drakes are still the win condition unless you have top trundle mid tristana
Will that work on kha'zix also?
w start on raptors?
Do you guys think eve can run this?
cooking
*At least in my elo, I think I'll do always this path, just because the enemy jungler always go to grubs and I can always get a free kill there :P*