Update: Carlotta live echo rolling part 1’s stream playback (VOD) was dropped. Link in the description! See its pinned comment and description to see how it went in summary. Things I failed to put in the video: 1) another big CON of this method is you need lots of raw echoes with correct main stats. While this might not be a problem for endgame players, for new players I don’t recommend using this method. 2) For the new sets released in 2.0, don’t use this method if you want to gear up Carlotta fast. If you want you can try this some time later when enough time has passed for you to get lots of correct main stat pieces. 3) there are more tips and tricks that I couldn’t get into details in this video but the most important thing is. The “wait until 3 pieces with no double crit” step in my method is flexible and should be adjusted according to the situation. Rule of thumb if you see lots of crits at +10 you can reduce the 3 to 1 or 2, and if crits come very rarely then you might need to do 3 or more but 3 is like a good amount for most situations. This is my second ever RUclips video I didn’t expect this many likes and views thank you sooo much for being here!
I have been pondering your method because I plan on updating my yinlin and zhezhi's echos for the new Coordinated attack focused sets and I think we can refine it further at minimum by taking echo rarity and types into consideration to reduce the number of rarer echoes needed to get a complete set. like for example rolling the tune 1 and 2 on 1cost echoes and only rolling the same on the 3cost when you get a streak of like 4~7 no crit on the 1costs. also I think (educated guess based on the maths you provided and some common maths) the technique can be tweaked to increase the odds of double crit echoes with other good substats: if you keep echoes that rolled double good non-crit subs to the side, it might be worth it to try the 3rd tune after any streak of 14+ non-crit rolls and the last two after another similar streak since that graph at 8:44 shows that out of the 16 streaks of 14+ non-crit roll just under 19% lasted more than 19 while just over 31% lasted 15. with enough resources to be able to wait for a streak between 15 and 18 you'd have a 50% chance of getting a crit roll, if you can reapeat it twice (once for the 3rd once for the 4th+5th) it would give you a very decent chance at getting a double crit+ 2 useful substat like BA% and ATK% for zhezhi or RS% and ATK% for Yinlin (or for carlotta if the new echo set is any indication regarding her damage spread)
This method makes literally no sense to me. Taking your “crit period theory” at face value (which I don’t), why are you assuming the crit period is different between 20 substats on 10 different echos vs 20 substats on 4 different echos? If the interval is, say, 10, then you’ll get 2 crits. One doesn’t rely on “short intervals”, it’s the exact same probability either way. (Note, I don’t buy into this “interval” idea anyways. It assumes a predetermined interval, and that’s not how statistics and probability works.) More importantly though, your entire method completely ignores the increased costs associated with rolls 3-5. It’s FAR more expensive, and you have finite resources for leveling (unless you pay). Meanwhile, you can grind infinite echos, meaning you can try the cheaper 1 and 2 substats FAR more times than 3-5. To use my example from above, imagine leveling 10 echos to level 10. Now you have 20 substat rolls for the cost of 165,000xp, or 33 premium sealed tubes. Now level 4 echos to level 25, aka 20 substats on 4 echos. This instead costs 570,400xp. That’s just over 114 premium sealed tubes. All that extra cost for the same amount of crits. This is why the traditional method is preferred. Those tubes are finite without $$$, while echos are infinite via grinding.
Most people's limitation is gonna be echo xp, and if it is, this method will rob you blind. Going all the way to 25 on every echo is ludicrously expensive. My rule is I only make echos 25 which got 2 useful stats at 20. (crit, attack & main damage type when relevant)
2 useful substats or are you including the main stat? Just wondering since you mentioned main damage type, which is only a main stat for 3 costs, and can't be a sub stat.
If u think echo limitation is the issue then you haven’t reach the endgame yet prob.the real issue is tuner. There is a lot of place where the amount of exp tube u can get is more then tuner. There is a reason why the tuner in shop can only be purchase with the premium coral (don’t ever do that )
That eats a LOT of exp. Every extra level past a multiple of 5, just has extra exp that's consumed for every recycle. Better off to Salvage +25 echoes.
@Zer0Perplexity meh nah doing +25 on one gives good enough return on foddering it until it's worth level 10 by the time it's diminished, and by that time I always get double crit substats, it feels much less frustrating than experimenting with +10
From my understanding, you use the short crit intervals to keep finding the 1 crit by doing +10 on echoes. Then the moment you hit 3 echoes in a row without a single crit stat, you assume you are on the long interval now. And since long interval crits show up roughly on 6-21 intervals and you are already in the 6th interval (3echoes with 2 substats each), you go back to the echoes you rolled that has 1 crit stat already and roll them to +25 as this mostly guarantees one if them to have double crit values. Smart way to play with the substat "pity" system
It does not matter what you do or what not. The chance of getting crit dmg and crit rate with roll 1 and 2 is 1/13 * 1/12 * 100 aka ~0.641% since sub stats can not reroll it goes down from 13 to 12. When trying to roll crit rate and crit dmg at roll 3 and 4, it looks like this: 1/11 * 1/10 * 100 aka ~0.9091 so we gained a little more than 0.3% by rolling to 4. YEY that means no matter what you do - since it is gaussian distributed according to the fan wiki - you have to at least roll 100 echoes up to 4 to get close to the almost 1% chance of getting both crit rate and dmg at one echo. When only going for one of these 2 stats, the chances are significantly higher. For example the chances of having crit dmg/rate at roll 1 is 1/13 * 100 ~7.692% and at roll 4 = 10%. So you need between 13 and 10 echoes to get at least crit rate OR crit damage consistently. The odds for rolling crit rate/dmg after you got the other one are better, for the 2. roll it should be ~8.34% (that is 1 in 12) but this is exactly the ~0.641% I was talking about earlier. I am sorry guys to disappoint, but at the long run no matter what you are trying to do you will face math. You might be more lucky some times, and then lose luck at other times to become even again and start to reach the numbers I was talking about earlier no matter what you are trying to do. Statistically speaking, if you do not roll crit stats, its more likely to roll them right after. But rolling both stats is just a very tiny chance, no matter if you try it on your first 2/3 rolls or third/fourth rolls. Everyone wishes to get these stats you need, myself included. But reality is, it legit does not matter what your doing, you CAN NOT raise your chances by doing some tricks. Sure, in 10 rolls you might be lucky. But with 6 characters * 5 echoes * 5 sub stats (150 rolls) I will guarantee you, you will lose your "luck" and no method/trick will help you.
I have all my characters on full very decent double crit sets, even sub dps’s, and standard characters I don’t use anymore. I have tried all methods since day 1, echo manipulation just to test, buffering like explained in the video, bulk upgrading, anything. The video we are commenting on here is just perception change as the chances of his rolls are the same, but bc of the method he’s using he’s just avoiding seeing more lows by feeding them at +10 resulting in the perception of more highs when he gets a double crit, and less lows when he shallow upgrades. The thing is like you said, nothing will change anything, the chances are the chances and that’s it. The only way to slightly increase the chance to get crit, is each subsequent roll you do slightly increasing the chance to get crit as stats can’t be rolled twice. So after all the time and methods, this is what I do. As 3 cost echoes with correct main stat are the most time consuming to acquire AND roll double crit, I take each one to 20 no matter what. Seeing as most of my best echos have their double crits on rolls 4/5 likely due to the chances slightly increasing per roll. If no crit at roll 4, it’s simply trash as there’s no chance for double crit. Obv if crit on roll 4 or before take to max. Now for 4 cost it depends on whether I’m desperate for a decent double crit piece, or trying to snag an upgrade to an already decent piece. If im desperate I’ll take it to 20 same as 3 cost, if i can be picky then its going to 15. If the stats up to 15 are still good for the character but not crit, then I will roll to 20 to see crit or not. As for 1 costs, seeing as they are usually already abundant in our inventory we can usually be very picky with them and I’ll pretty much upgrade them using a method similar to what’s in the video, staggering multiple pieces with potential just to weed out the good pieces quickly
I don't know what the statistics are, but "you have to at least roll 100 echoes up to 4 to get close to 1% chance of getting both crit rate and dmg" is patently false based on real game data. I have double crit on all echoes on multiple characters, and I did not spend 500 echoes on any of them to achieve that .
Level up one echo to +20 (16 gold tubes). Tune it 4 times - if it's double crit, you are kinda done if you don't want to min-max. If it's single crit but good other stats, you can gamba (8 gold tubes to lvl 25, then tune once more). If the result isn't double crit, just feed it to the next echo (if it's lvl 20, you gonna need to add 3 gold tubes for the next one to be at lvl 20. If it's lvl 25, your next echo gonna be instant lvl 22, then on the next feed it's lvl 20, and then you are just back to lvl 20 echo + 3 tubes. This is the most efficient way. If echo isn't double crit for your damage dealer, just feed it to another fresh echo.
This is basically what I have been doing after seeing that newbie spreadsheet of 1-20 is close to 20-25. Like I can't find reason enough to roll to 5 or 10 first, it's just too much hassle and you're basically trashing a potentially 3rd and 4th being crit when echo farming itself is already taking much time with its own rng.
Seeing the difference between the traditional and this new method I could say this at least logically makes more sense to control for bad crit stats. There is definitely that feeling that once you hit double crit on something you might as well stop because the odds are so low for it to happen consecutively that you'd just be sacrificing whatever you use next. Definitely going to give this one a try for my Carlotta in 2.0, thanks for being our guinepig for science 🤝
Great vid with the graphics and all. Earned yourself a sub. Might I suggest also weighing in the cost to compare both these methods? Or also trying to consider leveling to 20 instead of 25. I think you could actually find an optimal method if cost was considered.
So refreshing to see non click bait, honest content in the gatcha space. Clearly showing the benefits, the reasoning and very importnatly the limitation. Not trying to obscure or overhype anything. Thank you, we need more content like this instead of all the fabricated drama farming.
at the very least can we make it to where Fusion main stat cannot drop if the sonata effect is, oh i dont know, a GLACIAL effect. One of my biggest peeves
I am happy you finally made this video ❤. I am already gathering tuners to try this method out in 2.0. Everyone this guy is the goat ❤. He put a lot ot effort and love into this video.
Basically you are trying to use the echo pity system in this game to get good stats . That's kinda smart to be honest . As this game actually has a working pity which guarantees not only the main stat of echo but also sub stat
How I roll "Trifecta" echoes. Roll many echoes to +5, discard those that are not ATK%/Crit (Skip +5 if only has few echoes of the set you want to build) For those that roll ATK/Crit, continue to +15. I also continue if I roll the stats the character needs (Example BA for Camelya). If up till this point (+15) got at least 2 ATK%/Crit, directly up to +25. Also any single Crit-option close to max roll, for me always worth to try to +20 (For ATK/Crit) then +25, it had given me some of the truly cream of the crop Echoes. (It's worth the price of wasting some more echo EXP and tuners) This way, you're more conservative on the Echo EXP at the cost of needing to farm more Echoes. This is preferable since Echo EXP is stamina-gated, but farming echoes is less strict than echo exp. Still, ultimately depends on your comfort zone on farming echoes. ===================== For 3* /4* echoes set that are few in amount, I go to +15 directly, then +20. then +25. You can be more lenient by accepting flat ATK or ER or %MovesetAugment (If the character need it)
Best method : - go to +15 Keep only if you got 2 of the stats you needed (Crit D/R or ATK% or Basic/Skill/Liberation/ER) If not -> Discard. if yes, go to 20. If HP / def or any Kit augment you don't need pops up -> Discard.
If up to +15 you got at least 2 ATK%/Crit. It's always worth going to +25, don't stop at +20. Just do the math, Rolling unwanted option on +20, means higher chance of getting the trifecta at +25, even if it cost more echo exp, overall it cost less than discarding your opportunity compared to making and filtering even more +15. You won't get Quadfecta by continuing +25 when you fail +20, but it greatly increases the chance of getting Trifecta.
@DisIngRaM To actually have VERY decent echoes (and most likely never have to come back to it) it's way better to chase those goddly echoes The only way for me to accept a def/hf stat at +20 is if ive already got really high rolls on CR/CD/ATK
I use the traditional method and had no issues with it. I value other useful substats as 75% the value of a crit. And have had great results. The only thing I do different is for attribute damage types as those are harder to get. I roll them to +15 no matter what. If I get something equivalent to one crit stat. I go to 20. Now if out of 4 I have at least 1 actual crit stat I go to 25. The exception is if the crit stat is a low roll and all other 3 stats are useless, I fodder it.
at the start, i tought it woudnt work, why? becuase all the videos never usualy work. but today, i just reached onion level 60, and i decided to spend all of my crystal solvent on carlotta. i used this technique, and i was surprised to see how it worked out. in only 40 solvents, i got 2 god tier glacio pieces. so yeah, thank you very much for this easy to understant and useful video.
i usually +5 only, if i hit ER crit rate or crit damage i'll go to +10/15 and fish for one crit before going further i am running out of tunner faster than xp now though lol
I dunno, if kuro didnt fk with the crit rate chances and it is a fair distribution then the independent values dont affect each other nor their sequence. I could be wrong but then this should also fall under the "gambler's fallacy" math problem. Also the optimal way for f2p is to go to 3 substat rolls (if there is no double crit then throw it) if im not mistaken this is because you want an intervall that balances the needed resources to the chance of getting 2 crit rolls in your intervall. looking at only the first 2 seems resource effizient but the intervall is short so its very unlikely to get 2 CRrolls, 4 is more likely to produce a double crit but very expensive compared to its chance, so 3 rolls is pretty close to the golden ratio of them both(especially because the exp needed is higher from 3->4 than from 2->3. I hope what i wrote is understandable im not native maybe i will rewrite this later.
guys if you watched this, i will let you know you can't manipulate a specific stat. It's all RNG. What i did as a person who got his Camellya double crits on all 5 pieces, just collect your Echo over the week and feed them til level 20, if you don't see at least 1 crit stat, you feed that piece to the next one and repeat. Don't need to stress yourself out over rng based stuffs. DON'T DO THE +10 trick to save your exp. You will get a lot of exp tubes by Tacet fields. 3 out 5 pieces of mine got the double crits on 3rd and 4th slot so you probably wasted a lot of good echos by doing that.
Having double crit is not hard but having two good crit roll and other useful substats are. You can control the first crit roll but if you roll only the first highest crit and discard the others you will never know if they could be better in the second crit stat or other stats. In the end i spend xp in the others also when you are trying to maximize your stats The best approach should be upgrade each one from high to low crit stat+5 levels each try and continue first with the best stats. If there is an unbeatable piece at some point you stop upgrading the others.
ok that sequence theory is wrong, cause of how prohibitive it is the level all 5 ones when the first 2 have no crits, scewing results. This is a really good video though. the math problem behind rolling for sub stats is that you are looking to get a specific set of numbers (lets say 1 and 2) our of a set of a incrementing sequence of numbers to 13 (1, 2, 3, 4, ..., 13 representing all the different sub stats possible from the pool) into 5 available slots, where no duplicates can be in it. I will spare you the math but you end up with 165 favourable outcomes, that include the 2 crits and 1287 possible 5 slot combinations, now divide it as such: 165/1287 and you get to a 12.5% probability to get 2 crits (or any 2 desired stats) in the 5 slots. so you need to farm 8 echos with the desired main stats to statistically get 1 with double crit. Since we arent going to go all the way to 5 every time due to resource contraints, you may need a few more echos to compensate. So the method you presented is reasonable, only continue rolling when you get a crit stat early, so the odds are in your favour, as you only need to get 1 out of 11 remaining stats in one of the 3 slots, which should come out at just about 30% for the echos that got 1 crit stat in the first 2 slots. I think this could be further mathed out and put into an excel sheet, where you can just input your echo exp and tuning resources and time to farm the echos and it tells you the best course of action.
It honestly sounds like the same method except you are just prolonging the inevitable. The main difference is whether the crit intervals are necessarily accurate and if it's just math being math, it will be different for all players even if they used a decent amount of data set. Still a really cool way to pull rolls though. Very similar to 1x pull vs 10x pull. I'm a fan of 1x pull myself because 'lucky' so I definitely won't b close-minded to try this on multiple gacha games to see the results.
I’ve been unintentionally using this method. Now I understand why it’s work consistently. However I do till level 5 instead of 10 and 10-15 echo at once, then go back to level 5 ones.
This method is very interesting. I will try this in 2.0. Still, I would only level up to 20 because the gap between 20 and 25 costs way too much. This would require even more Echoes with crit at 10, but getting Echoes is easier than EXP
gamers THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING so we're basically building up crit substat pity now? so we have short, medium and long intervals? you mean it can appear at any moment just how it'd be if it was random? ok so what about other substats? does atk% also have intervals at which it appears? what about ER? can we just build up pity for each stat and then funnel them into one echo to make godrolls this way? confirmation bias goes crazy with videos like this but i mean sure ig, i bet this one is the one that actually works lol i'd love to see a big sample size of echoes that were +25 after getting early crit and "building up crit pity" and echoes that were just immiedately +25 after getting one early crit roll, i'm sure the results would shock us
Definitely, i will try this. I always level to 20+ then if the echo is shiet i used it to toll another one and goes to 18+ and use exp tubes (4gold) to make it 20 and if good i keep it
I don't see the difference between the two methods, can someone explain what I'm missing? Both methods do the shallow digging, and then proceed to mine deeper if a crit is found in the shallow digging. If I have 30 applicable echoes, I'll be doing the shallow digging on all 30 with both methods and then dig deeper on whatever ones have crit and recycle those that didn't work out. What's the difference?
my brain barely brained watching this vid thats why i always just go to 25 get all 5 stats and just use it as fodder if doesnt work out because i cant be bothered to use a more efficient method and i dont want to farm echoes
All in or nothing for me😂. My main characters are already built, so I'm just going all in for the new echoes I get to see if it is an upgrade or something I can keep if I build a new character. My main dps's are Jiyan, Xiangli Yao, Jinshi, Camellya and Carlotta. I'm currently building Chixia at the moment😊
This is more on how CN does it where they think the substats you get is set in a pattern. Which in turn seems re “randomize” each time energy regen appears. In your explaination that would be the switch between short to long intervals. TLDR They usually switch around echos and fish for “bad stats” before switching back to their main relic for their crits. But in any case. Good job man. My own community’s time method usually gets double crits within 100-200ish turners also. With some luck involved. Which I did on a viewers account here Echo “Manipulation” Doing it Myself | Wuthering Waves Account Review ruclips.net/video/4bnFGOP8zzs/видео.html
Is there a place with all the echo roll data? I'd like to comb through it to see all the stat distributions and process the data to see if there is more insight or hints as to how Kuro is rolling the stats on the echoes. I'm about to use over 7.5k tuners, so that could help with making more data points along with scrubbing through your vod. Let me know if we can figure something out to work on this theory
First 10 days farming new set for Carlotta: spend 16 waveplates pack and got one glacio 3 cost. Another one i find in echo farming. Got double crit on one, but lowest one, and until now (11 day of pach 2.0) i haven't see any Glasio 3 cost. That's my luck. By the way spectro radiance dropping me spectro 3 cost one from another. Next time i feel like i need to farm set first, see what pieses i got and desided which 5* character i would pull.
So, I guess this works. but a lot of us are doing the method by the genius society. I'm able to role double crits and energy that way if you read the chart.
I would really rather get rid of the need to spend waveplates/stamina on gear drops. If anything let us spend them exclusively on upgrade materials instead?? I know there are conversion systems that try to appease stamina/time lost on bad yield on gears but I think gatcha could evolve into something better if this one key thing changed.
And yeah you can do that in overworld for Wuwa, but in Wuwa’s case there’s still a steep cost per upgrade. The reward drops per union level milestones don’t change much either. The required mats to level characters increases but the mat drops have not gotten better at least to my knowledge. Though events do give out quite a bit in resource I’m not sure those events get to stay permanent either because they account for storage issues it causes for mobile users. Players who take breaks from burnout might be at a disadvantage and could have FoMo too. Though the costs can be mitigated to some degree I’d just hope the investment costs for characters and teams in general wasn’t too high.
The "crit period theory" is just stating the average chance of rolling crit stats. There is no statistical difference between your method of "mining wide" vs the traditional method of "mining tall". On average, you are using just as many echoes and tuners, the difference is that you are essentially "brute forcing" the rng by running alot of samples at once, giving you the illusion that you have a higher chance of getting double crits compared to doing them one at a time. Statistically speaking, going to +25 for double crits, you need on average 7.8 echoes to do it, resulting in 416281 exp and 282.882 tuners needed. This is consistent with your experience of using less than 300 tuners on average. This takes 18.9219 TF runs (at UL 50+) to cover the exp cost and 14.1441 runs to cover the tuner costs. Comparing this to going to +20 for double crits, you need on average 12.99 echoes to do it, resulting in 278430 exp and 333.71 tuners needed. This needs 12.656 TF (at UL 50+) runs to cover the exp cost and 16.686 runs to cover the tuner cost. Strictly from a cost perspective, it's cheaper to stop at +20 when you haven't gotten your double crit roll. However, note the increased avg number of echoes from 7.8 to 12.99, almost a whopping 67% increase. It can be argued that echoes are harder to come by than EXP / Tuner. That said, sitting on loads of tubes and tuners? Go +25. Having way more roll-able echoes than you know what to do with because you farmed liked a madman? Go +20.
I'm so poor on resources I started to make my own method: Roll per 5 levels. If you roll hp or def, trash it. If there's no crit by the 3rd roll, trash it. If there's no double crit on the 4th roll, trash it.
I really wish Kuro would adjust the Echo to Xp drop rate. I have more Echoes than I will ever need and not enough XP. I use the Data Bank to recycle trash unused echoes all the time to get new ones. Idk why they don't want to give us just an Xp farm. I will never need the thousands of echos I do have because there's just not enough ways to get XP for them. I'll commend them for making it easier to level up but I'm still drowning in Echos with so little Xp items for them.
Bro farming the main stat that i want takes forever today i played around 3 hours and got only 2 glacio damage its so time consuming and none of 2 got double crit
Ive been lvling up to 10 and tune the first two substats and scrap it if i dont get a crit stat. I guess ill try this but im still skeptical. If i understand it right, It sounds like we are "building pity" by not getting a crit stat after tuning 6 times and then tuning the 5 lvl 10 echos with at least 1 crit that u saved up. But ill still scrap em if i dont get atk or the characters needed dmg bonus in the 3 or 4th substat
We should not believe in any Rng Manipulation Methods coz in the end its all about Luck And you would need so many Correct Main stat Echoes to Start with this method Since this is like Classic Insurance Method in Big MMO Games where instead of Enhancing 1 Weapon to Max level with Risk of Breaking To Enhancing Multiple Same Weapons hoping at least 1 succeeds
Yeah I forgot to put that into the CONs thanks for pointing it out! Correct main stat echoes are hard to get a lot of in a short period of time for sure but with time and as more and more players are heading into endgame of nothing other than tacet field to farm, I would assume it to be lesser of a problem but if that’s still a problem then please use traditional method! I stressed in the beginning and the end I DON’T claim this to be game-changing superior method just an alternative
@@LamentsLegacy I don't mind trying this method since I do have dozen of main stat echoes in my bag But I do have my doubts about the Crit Period Theory and I just read about the Chinese Live streamer's Echo rolling Skill If you could add Clips of the CN Streamer and more details in ur next video would be good
i tried the echomancing method with the timer thing, didn't really work for me. I'll try this one and see if I get more consistent double crits! thanks!
So, Im very dumb and I need everything explained to me like I'm 5. "Double CRIT" means having CRIT Rate and CRIT Damage in the same echo? Or can it be 2 CRIT Rates or 2 CRIT Damages? :/
Me before opening this video: This is probably going to use anecdotal evidence similar to those other bait videos. Sweetily's video on Echoes is the only thing that you need to know. Me after watching the first few minutes: Yep. I don't know what I expected. Here's what you need to do to get Double Crit on your Echoes. Whenever you see a bait video, choose the option to not recommend the channel and dislike the video! Totally works! I've done this to about 5 channels now so I already have 5. This will make my 6th echo!
I don't think this method is optimal. I increase the echo to +15. The goal is to get 2/3 useful stats. Crits, Atk%, the required damage bonus, energy, if necessary. If the condition is met, I pump it up to 25. If not, I add +2 gold tubes and pump the next one due to this. It is also desirable that this is a medium or high value of crit, but it depends on how much echo I have in reserve for attempts.
I also follow your way of having “conditions” for the first 2 substats. Tho, for my case, even if I get double crits, I still dispose of it IF its crit turns out to be the lowest possible rate. (6.3% CR or 12.6/13.8 cdmg) because that’s just booo
Hi! Yes that is a very valid concern I am sorry I forgot to talk about it in the video! There are 3 possible solutions one is to use the traditional method and just level what you have to try and get good pieces. Another is to farm tacet fields and wait for a period of time for the correct main stat echoes to be saved up. For example for me in the video i actually never farm void thunder echoes in the open world all the pieces I got in the videos are saved up over 2 months either from tacet fields or from echoes merging in the data bank. And the third solution which is not really recommended is eat food that will boost echo drop rate and farm echoes in the open world. I would recommend either using traditional method or waiting to save up correct main stats echoes from tacet field and merging!
This method is actually echo amount friendly compared to the traditional method. It's your to go choice if you're lacking echo at the cost of burning more Echo EXP and tuners. If you had farm more echo and have many of them ready to build, I suggest using other method for more economy on Echo EXP and tuner. Keep in mind that, this method is for reliable rolling double crit, not endgame echo (Trifecta or Quadfecta).
Real problem for me is getting xp for echos. 8 days in game but I have (probably) decent cr 50% on havoc Rover with cd 248%. I don't really know if this is good on lvl 60 or not. No 5* weapons. What I DO know is that method might not work on new players because, again, we don't have much of echo experience bottles to level up a lot of echos. To newcomers its more relevant to level up one boss echo with cr/cd+atk till 25, roll the stats and hope to get lucky. If not - just reuse it. I know this guide was created for veteran players by veteran player who has more resources to spare, but it's still probably will confuse newcomers. Personally - I like it. It's good, it has a good amount of step by step explanations, examples etc. You definitely deserve a like.
Rolling a mid +10 piece all the way to + 25 JUST cuz it has one crit stat is a good way to burn a LOT of resources n possibly still not have an actual good endgame piece. Having double crit doesn’t automatically make it an endgame piece btw. But if all u care about is mid pieces that have double crit then u do u Statistically better to keep rolling it only one substat at a time n judge if it’s worthy of pushing further at each step along the way. Like, if it has critD then 2 flat stats n u still roll it to +25 is bad strategy if ur goal is an actual endgame piece which should have at LEAST 3/5 useful stats. Cuz at that point ur hoping n praying the last 2 stats are both useful including a critR roll. N the cost of the +20 n +25 is too high to gamble on a piece that at best will still end up as just mid.
How could you know that you are not gonna get useful substats in the last rolls? You are still gonna burn those tuners and tubes on the next echoes that you wanna upgrade. You could get double crits right in the beginning, then some useless or mediocre 3rd stat. Will you stop upgrading it?
@@drakula839it’s about playing the odds. Ofc u don’t know what the last 2 subs will be. But the exp cost of going from +15 to +20 is high. N the cost from +20 to +25 even higher (about the same as rolling a fresh piece to +18). That’s a much more expensive gamble than rolling a fresh piece to +10 or +15, n that’s the problem with his approach. So it’s rng right? >>The more echoes u attempt the more chances u have of getting an actual endgame piece
This strat is alright, I just think going lowest cv to highest cv is kinda stupid, cos if you do highest first you might not have to level up your other echos and loose xp + tuners.
Almost 1000 Tuner and I end up with only one double crit in my ice set smh my head Fortunately I got atk%, and skill dmg bonus on every piece and all of them have 4 useful stat (flat atk and or energy on top) My crit value kinda suck but at least it is still good enough until next month where I will get good enough of the new echo set
Listen it's all rng there is no manipulation to get it if you think so it's placebo you're getting tricked if there was main and substats manipulation everyone would have perfect and godly stats.
yes and no, RNG done by a program does tend to have some measure of predictability because of the way random numbers are generated so it does make some sense that a statistical analysis could reveal trends on the output. edit: forgot to mention that graph let's us see at a glance that the sample pool must be at least 500, if they where all done in a relative short time span and none got omitted I'd judge the math to be credible
When you said I'll get into the math I thought you're gonna back up your claims by probability and not by a theory from a Chinese guy and extreme mental gymnastics to employ confirmation bias especially seeing your sample size is too small to draw any meaningful conclusion
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
Update: Carlotta live echo rolling part 1’s stream playback (VOD) was dropped. Link in the description! See its pinned comment and description to see how it went in summary.
Things I failed to put in the video: 1) another big CON of this method is you need lots of raw echoes with correct main stats. While this might not be a problem for endgame players, for new players I don’t recommend using this method.
2) For the new sets released in 2.0, don’t use this method if you want to gear up Carlotta fast. If you want you can try this some time later when enough time has passed for you to get lots of correct main stat pieces. 3) there are more tips and tricks that I couldn’t get into details in this video but the most important thing is. The “wait until 3 pieces with no double crit” step in my method is flexible and should be adjusted according to the situation. Rule of thumb if you see lots of crits at +10 you can reduce the 3 to 1 or 2, and if crits come very rarely then you might need to do 3 or more but 3 is like a good amount for most situations.
This is my second ever RUclips video I didn’t expect this many likes and views thank you sooo much for being here!
@@LamentsLegacy u have to do it live.. Otherwise I will think it's fake.. I don't believe in recording
@@KazuyaSarkar ok i just started making videos I don't know if my channel can go live yet let me see if i can if so i'll do it live
I have been pondering your method because I plan on updating my yinlin and zhezhi's echos for the new Coordinated attack focused sets and I think we can refine it further at minimum by taking echo rarity and types into consideration to reduce the number of rarer echoes needed to get a complete set. like for example rolling the tune 1 and 2 on 1cost echoes and only rolling the same on the 3cost when you get a streak of like 4~7 no crit on the 1costs.
also I think (educated guess based on the maths you provided and some common maths) the technique can be tweaked to increase the odds of double crit echoes with other good substats: if you keep echoes that rolled double good non-crit subs to the side, it might be worth it to try the 3rd tune after any streak of 14+ non-crit rolls and the last two after another similar streak since that graph at 8:44 shows that out of the 16 streaks of 14+ non-crit roll just under 19% lasted more than 19 while just over 31% lasted 15. with enough resources to be able to wait for a streak between 15 and 18 you'd have a 50% chance of getting a crit roll, if you can reapeat it twice (once for the 3rd once for the 4th+5th) it would give you a very decent chance at getting a double crit+ 2 useful substat like BA% and ATK% for zhezhi or RS% and ATK% for Yinlin (or for carlotta if the new echo set is any indication regarding her damage spread)
@@KazuyaSarkarwhich part is unbelievable?
This method makes literally no sense to me. Taking your “crit period theory” at face value (which I don’t), why are you assuming the crit period is different between 20 substats on 10 different echos vs 20 substats on 4 different echos? If the interval is, say, 10, then you’ll get 2 crits. One doesn’t rely on “short intervals”, it’s the exact same probability either way.
(Note, I don’t buy into this “interval” idea anyways. It assumes a predetermined interval, and that’s not how statistics and probability works.)
More importantly though, your entire method completely ignores the increased costs associated with rolls 3-5. It’s FAR more expensive, and you have finite resources for leveling (unless you pay). Meanwhile, you can grind infinite echos, meaning you can try the cheaper 1 and 2 substats FAR more times than 3-5.
To use my example from above, imagine leveling 10 echos to level 10. Now you have 20 substat rolls for the cost of 165,000xp, or 33 premium sealed tubes.
Now level 4 echos to level 25, aka 20 substats on 4 echos. This instead costs 570,400xp. That’s just over 114 premium sealed tubes. All that extra cost for the same amount of crits.
This is why the traditional method is preferred. Those tubes are finite without $$$, while echos are infinite via grinding.
me when leveling up my echos : "all in or nothing"
True. If you aren't all in then you aren't doing it right
"Fk it. We ball"
We're the daredevil
True, with the goldfish brain, I prefer all in or nothing.
all in for me and got a lot of god tier echoes
Most people's limitation is gonna be echo xp, and if it is, this method will rob you blind. Going all the way to 25 on every echo is ludicrously expensive. My rule is I only make echos 25 which got 2 useful stats at 20. (crit, attack & main damage type when relevant)
2 useful substats or are you including the main stat? Just wondering since you mentioned main damage type, which is only a main stat for 3 costs, and can't be a sub stat.
His mean of main damage type is basic att bonus, heavy att bonus, skill damage bonus etc... like which char need one of those dmg
@@dale6450 Oh, yeah okay that makes more sense.
you have to take chance with 3 cost elem echoes cause they are rare to find.
If u think echo limitation is the issue then you haven’t reach the endgame yet prob.the real issue is tuner. There is a lot of place where the amount of exp tube u can get is more then tuner. There is a reason why the tuner in shop can only be purchase with the premium coral (don’t ever do that )
I do one 25, then keep it feeding to new ones it goes +22, +20, +17, +15, or something
That eats a LOT of exp. Every extra level past a multiple of 5, just has extra exp that's consumed for every recycle. Better off to Salvage +25 echoes.
@Zer0Perplexity meh nah doing +25 on one gives good enough return on foddering it until it's worth level 10 by the time it's diminished, and by that time I always get double crit substats, it feels much less frustrating than experimenting with +10
This is what I do to 😂
That's what i do too, sure it's not optimal but it's easy and i get some good substats because of it😂
Same lol
From my understanding, you use the short crit intervals to keep finding the 1 crit by doing +10 on echoes. Then the moment you hit 3 echoes in a row without a single crit stat, you assume you are on the long interval now. And since long interval crits show up roughly on 6-21 intervals and you are already in the 6th interval (3echoes with 2 substats each), you go back to the echoes you rolled that has 1 crit stat already and roll them to +25 as this mostly guarantees one if them to have double crit values.
Smart way to play with the substat "pity" system
This is so good, definitely gonna try this, the way you explain how it works is very easy to understand, thank you.
It does not matter what you do or what not. The chance of getting crit dmg and crit rate with roll 1 and 2 is 1/13 * 1/12 * 100 aka ~0.641% since sub stats can not reroll it goes down from 13 to 12. When trying to roll crit rate and crit dmg at roll 3 and 4, it looks like this: 1/11 * 1/10 * 100 aka ~0.9091 so we gained a little more than 0.3% by rolling to 4. YEY that means no matter what you do - since it is gaussian distributed according to the fan wiki - you have to at least roll 100 echoes up to 4 to get close to the almost 1% chance of getting both crit rate and dmg at one echo. When only going for one of these 2 stats, the chances are significantly higher. For example the chances of having crit dmg/rate at roll 1 is 1/13 * 100 ~7.692% and at roll 4 = 10%. So you need between 13 and 10 echoes to get at least crit rate OR crit damage consistently. The odds for rolling crit rate/dmg after you got the other one are better, for the 2. roll it should be ~8.34% (that is 1 in 12) but this is exactly the ~0.641% I was talking about earlier.
I am sorry guys to disappoint, but at the long run no matter what you are trying to do you will face math. You might be more lucky some times, and then lose luck at other times to become even again and start to reach the numbers I was talking about earlier no matter what you are trying to do.
Statistically speaking, if you do not roll crit stats, its more likely to roll them right after. But rolling both stats is just a very tiny chance, no matter if you try it on your first 2/3 rolls or third/fourth rolls.
Everyone wishes to get these stats you need, myself included. But reality is, it legit does not matter what your doing, you CAN NOT raise your chances by doing some tricks. Sure, in 10 rolls you might be lucky. But with 6 characters * 5 echoes * 5 sub stats (150 rolls) I will guarantee you, you will lose your "luck" and no method/trick will help you.
but you could find a way to save on exp
I have all my characters on full very decent double crit sets, even sub dps’s, and standard characters I don’t use anymore. I have tried all methods since day 1, echo manipulation just to test, buffering like explained in the video, bulk upgrading, anything. The video we are commenting on here is just perception change as the chances of his rolls are the same, but bc of the method he’s using he’s just avoiding seeing more lows by feeding them at +10 resulting in the perception of more highs when he gets a double crit, and less lows when he shallow upgrades.
The thing is like you said, nothing will change anything, the chances are the chances and that’s it. The only way to slightly increase the chance to get crit, is each subsequent roll you do slightly increasing the chance to get crit as stats can’t be rolled twice. So after all the time and methods, this is what I do.
As 3 cost echoes with correct main stat are the most time consuming to acquire AND roll double crit, I take each one to 20 no matter what. Seeing as most of my best echos have their double crits on rolls 4/5 likely due to the chances slightly increasing per roll. If no crit at roll 4, it’s simply trash as there’s no chance for double crit. Obv if crit on roll 4 or before take to max.
Now for 4 cost it depends on whether I’m desperate for a decent double crit piece, or trying to snag an upgrade to an already decent piece. If im desperate I’ll take it to 20 same as 3 cost, if i can be picky then its going to 15. If the stats up to 15 are still good for the character but not crit, then I will roll to 20 to see crit or not.
As for 1 costs, seeing as they are usually already abundant in our inventory we can usually be very picky with them and I’ll pretty much upgrade them using a method similar to what’s in the video, staggering multiple pieces with potential just to weed out the good pieces quickly
@@BabaYaga0713 yeah cost 3 to +20 all day everyday
@ players will roll to 15 and catch
Atk%
Flat Atk
ER%
Then trash it, not realizing 4/5 were gonna be c.rate/c.dmg for a perfect piece
I don't know what the statistics are, but "you have to at least roll 100 echoes up to 4 to get close to 1% chance of getting both crit rate and dmg" is patently false based on real game data. I have double crit on all echoes on multiple characters, and I did not spend 500 echoes on any of them to achieve that .
Sooo many Math... Lament ma brain!! 🌱
OMG, I succeeded 3 times double crit in a row with this way.. my void echo.. . Thank you so much
Glad I could help! Yes it may cost some tuners but it should be working 90% of the time!
Level up one echo to +20 (16 gold tubes). Tune it 4 times - if it's double crit, you are kinda done if you don't want to min-max. If it's single crit but good other stats, you can gamba (8 gold tubes to lvl 25, then tune once more). If the result isn't double crit, just feed it to the next echo (if it's lvl 20, you gonna need to add 3 gold tubes for the next one to be at lvl 20. If it's lvl 25, your next echo gonna be instant lvl 22, then on the next feed it's lvl 20, and then you are just back to lvl 20 echo + 3 tubes.
This is the most efficient way. If echo isn't double crit for your damage dealer, just feed it to another fresh echo.
i figured out the system being most efficient in this way
i thought i found out a unique way , but i guess im not the only one who thought of this
This is basically what I have been doing after seeing that newbie spreadsheet of 1-20 is close to 20-25. Like I can't find reason enough to roll to 5 or 10 first, it's just too much hassle and you're basically trashing a potentially 3rd and 4th being crit when echo farming itself is already taking much time with its own rng.
Seeing the difference between the traditional and this new method I could say this at least logically makes more sense to control for bad crit stats. There is definitely that feeling that once you hit double crit on something you might as well stop because the odds are so low for it to happen consecutively that you'd just be sacrificing whatever you use next.
Definitely going to give this one a try for my Carlotta in 2.0, thanks for being our guinepig for science 🤝
It’s completely wrong unfortunately.
What is? This vid? Pls elaborate
@@herons6691 Who’s this directed towards? You didn’t reply to me, so I assume OP, but I don’t know what you’re wanting them to elaborate on.
@@heelercs oh I meant to reply u but I DK what happened lol. Maybe I accidentally deleted your @
Great vid with the graphics and all. Earned yourself a sub. Might I suggest also weighing in the cost to compare both these methods? Or also trying to consider leveling to 20 instead of 25. I think you could actually find an optimal method if cost was considered.
this is high quality video ! im going to try this , thanks
Thank you!! I hope it will work for you!!
So refreshing to see non click bait, honest content in the gatcha space. Clearly showing the benefits, the reasoning and very importnatly the limitation. Not trying to obscure or overhype anything. Thank you, we need more content like this instead of all the fabricated drama farming.
This video is destined to be on my RUclips. 😂 Thanks for the hard work, a person like me who can't rely on RNG Goddess needs this😂
I like how both in Genshin and WuWa, Crit Rate and Crit DMG is the most important one
This is what I also do but yours is superior with Math XD Who ever invented this kind of level up mechanic deserves a special place in hell.
i tried it and as much as I hate to admit it but This works for me😭😭
def not a clickbait
I'm gonna go try this out. This looks interesting!
great video def gonna do this ig this is more efficient rather than relying on pure luck
and ur presentation was great and easy to understand keep up bro 🔥
Very great analysis bro
at the very least can we make it to where Fusion main stat cannot drop if the sonata effect is, oh i dont know, a GLACIAL effect. One of my biggest peeves
i main jiyan and xly and there's definitely been more than one time where my aero echo got electro main stat and vice versa lmao
This seems logical, definitely gonna try it, i looked it up because of how bad my carlotta echo farming is going
I am happy you finally made this video ❤. I am already gathering tuners to try this method out in 2.0. Everyone this guy is the goat ❤. He put a lot ot effort and love into this video.
Thank you Kira! No kage is the goat!! Thanks very much for all your supports!
Bro made a whole dissertation for farming Echoes...Instant Subscribe
I like the idea
Very well explained ❤
Well done. I’ll try it out
I hope it works for you senpai!
Ayo he's here
Thanks for sharing your information and i sub looking forward for more of your content ❤
I need to rewatch this when im not drunk.
Basically you are trying to use the echo pity system in this game to get good stats . That's kinda smart to be honest . As this game actually has a working pity which guarantees not only the main stat of echo but also sub stat
Where’s the data for this?
no data = not true
there is no such pity echo system
where's the proof
There isn't any proof but the rng works in that way . This video itself is proof of that
@@BabaYaga0713 up his ass.
I'm all in. I take what I get, no looking back.
Underrated
How I roll "Trifecta" echoes.
Roll many echoes to +5, discard those that are not ATK%/Crit (Skip +5 if only has few echoes of the set you want to build)
For those that roll ATK/Crit, continue to +15. I also continue if I roll the stats the character needs (Example BA for Camelya).
If up till this point (+15) got at least 2 ATK%/Crit, directly up to +25.
Also any single Crit-option close to max roll, for me always worth to try to +20 (For ATK/Crit) then +25, it had given me some of the truly cream of the crop Echoes. (It's worth the price of wasting some more echo EXP and tuners)
This way, you're more conservative on the Echo EXP at the cost of needing to farm more Echoes.
This is preferable since Echo EXP is stamina-gated, but farming echoes is less strict than echo exp. Still, ultimately depends on your comfort zone on farming echoes.
=====================
For 3* /4* echoes set that are few in amount, I go to +15 directly, then +20. then +25.
You can be more lenient by accepting flat ATK or ER or %MovesetAugment (If the character need it)
Just like me frfr, except I’m more lenient even with bulk upgrading abundant 1 costs I still take them to 10 first
Best method :
- go to +15
Keep only if you got 2 of the stats you needed (Crit D/R or ATK% or Basic/Skill/Liberation/ER)
If not -> Discard.
if yes, go to 20.
If HP / def or any Kit augment you don't need pops up -> Discard.
If up to +15 you got at least 2 ATK%/Crit.
It's always worth going to +25, don't stop at +20.
Just do the math,
Rolling unwanted option on +20, means higher chance of getting the trifecta at +25, even if it cost more echo exp, overall it cost less than discarding your opportunity compared to making and filtering even more +15.
You won't get Quadfecta by continuing +25 when you fail +20, but it greatly increases the chance of getting Trifecta.
@DisIngRaM To actually have VERY decent echoes (and most likely never have to come back to it) it's way better to chase those goddly echoes
The only way for me to accept a def/hf stat at +20 is if ive already got really high rolls on CR/CD/ATK
@@IvagaanimaI Crazy... But each to their own 😆
The 1-4 crit theory is interesting, gonna try it next time.
I use the traditional method and had no issues with it. I value other useful substats as 75% the value of a crit. And have had great results. The only thing I do different is for attribute damage types as those are harder to get. I roll them to +15 no matter what. If I get something equivalent to one crit stat. I go to 20. Now if out of 4 I have at least 1 actual crit stat I go to 25. The exception is if the crit stat is a low roll and all other 3 stats are useless, I fodder it.
at the start, i tought it woudnt work, why? becuase all the videos never usualy work.
but today, i just reached onion level 60, and i decided to spend all of my crystal solvent on carlotta.
i used this technique, and i was surprised to see how it worked out. in only 40 solvents, i got 2 god tier glacio pieces.
so yeah, thank you very much for this easy to understant and useful video.
"Only 40 solvents" 😭, man farming in this game is diabolical tacet fields gives too little xp mats
Thank you my savior
Hopefully in the future kuro introduces items that allows us us to reroll substats and choose substats on echoes in the future
reroll ? yes. Be able to choose sub stat ? heck no.
@ I don’t mean like choose all substats but like choose like one or 2 I don’t see the harm in that makes the grind easier for certain people
i usually +5 only, if i hit ER crit rate or crit damage i'll go to +10/15 and fish for one crit before going further
i am running out of tunner faster than xp now though lol
So I can rely on my crippling addiction to rolling the dice or my crippling addiction to make spreadsheets... interesting
I dunno, if kuro didnt fk with the crit rate chances and it is a fair distribution then the independent values dont affect each other nor their sequence. I could be wrong but then this should also fall under the "gambler's fallacy" math problem. Also the optimal way for f2p is to go to 3 substat rolls (if there is no double crit then throw it) if im not mistaken this is because you want an intervall that balances the needed resources to the chance of getting 2 crit rolls in your intervall. looking at only the first 2 seems resource effizient but the intervall is short so its very unlikely to get 2 CRrolls, 4 is more likely to produce a double crit but very expensive compared to its chance, so 3 rolls is pretty close to the golden ratio of them both(especially because the exp needed is higher from 3->4 than from 2->3. I hope what i wrote is understandable im not native maybe i will rewrite this later.
guys if you watched this, i will let you know you can't manipulate a specific stat. It's all RNG. What i did as a person who got his Camellya double crits on all 5 pieces, just collect your Echo over the week and feed them til level 20, if you don't see at least 1 crit stat, you feed that piece to the next one and repeat. Don't need to stress yourself out over rng based stuffs. DON'T DO THE +10 trick to save your exp. You will get a lot of exp tubes by Tacet fields. 3 out 5 pieces of mine got the double crits on 3rd and 4th slot so you probably wasted a lot of good echos by doing that.
Having double crit is not hard but having two good crit roll and other useful substats are.
You can control the first crit roll but if you roll only the first highest crit and discard the others you will never know if they could be better in the second crit stat or other stats.
In the end i spend xp in the others also when you are trying to maximize your stats
The best approach should be upgrade each one from high to low crit stat+5 levels each try and continue first with the best stats.
If there is an unbeatable piece at some point you stop upgrading the others.
ok that sequence theory is wrong, cause of how prohibitive it is the level all 5 ones when the first 2 have no crits, scewing results.
This is a really good video though. the math problem behind rolling for sub stats is that you are looking to get a specific set of numbers (lets say 1 and 2) our of a set of a incrementing sequence of numbers to 13 (1, 2, 3, 4, ..., 13 representing all the different sub stats possible from the pool) into 5 available slots, where no duplicates can be in it.
I will spare you the math but you end up with 165 favourable outcomes, that include the 2 crits and 1287 possible 5 slot combinations, now divide it as such: 165/1287
and you get to a 12.5% probability to get 2 crits (or any 2 desired stats) in the 5 slots. so you need to farm 8 echos with the desired main stats to statistically get 1 with double crit.
Since we arent going to go all the way to 5 every time due to resource contraints, you may need a few more echos to compensate. So the method you presented is reasonable, only continue rolling when you get a crit stat early, so the odds are in your favour, as you only need to get 1 out of 11 remaining stats in one of the 3 slots, which should come out at just about 30% for the echos that got 1 crit stat in the first 2 slots.
I think this could be further mathed out and put into an excel sheet, where you can just input your echo exp and tuning resources and time to farm the echos and it tells you the best course of action.
It honestly sounds like the same method except you are just prolonging the inevitable. The main difference is whether the crit intervals are necessarily accurate and if it's just math being math, it will be different for all players even if they used a decent amount of data set. Still a really cool way to pull rolls though. Very similar to 1x pull vs 10x pull. I'm a fan of 1x pull myself because 'lucky' so I definitely won't b close-minded to try this on multiple gacha games to see the results.
I’ve been unintentionally using this method. Now I understand why it’s work consistently. However I do till level 5 instead of 10 and 10-15 echo at once, then go back to level 5 ones.
When I realise what you did with interval toning-hop, i just realised maths is much better than post-nut clarity.
This method is very interesting. I will try this in 2.0. Still, I would only level up to 20 because the gap between 20 and 25 costs way too much. This would require even more Echoes with crit at 10, but getting Echoes is easier than EXP
gamers THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING
so we're basically building up crit substat pity now? so we have short, medium and long intervals? you mean it can appear at any moment just how it'd be if it was random? ok so what about other substats? does atk% also have intervals at which it appears? what about ER? can we just build up pity for each stat and then funnel them into one echo to make godrolls this way?
confirmation bias goes crazy with videos like this but i mean sure ig, i bet this one is the one that actually works lol
i'd love to see a big sample size of echoes that were +25 after getting early crit and "building up crit pity" and echoes that were just immiedately +25 after getting one early crit roll, i'm sure the results would shock us
Definitely, i will try this. I always level to 20+ then if the echo is shiet i used it to toll another one and goes to 18+ and use exp tubes (4gold) to make it 20 and if good i keep it
What about the minute tuning for the echomancing
I don't see the difference between the two methods, can someone explain what I'm missing?
Both methods do the shallow digging, and then proceed to mine deeper if a crit is found in the shallow digging. If I have 30 applicable echoes, I'll be doing the shallow digging on all 30 with both methods and then dig deeper on whatever ones have crit and recycle those that didn't work out. What's the difference?
Pretty much no difference just confirmation bias and mental gymnastics
will try next time when i have mood back to farming echo.
That's my problem, no desire anymore to keep farming atk 1 star havoc for my Camellya
my brain barely brained watching this vid thats why i always just go to 25 get all 5 stats and just use it as fodder if doesnt work out because i cant be bothered to use a more efficient method and i dont want to farm echoes
All in or nothing for me😂. My main characters are already built, so I'm just going all in for the new echoes I get to see if it is an upgrade or something I can keep if I build a new character. My main dps's are Jiyan, Xiangli Yao, Jinshi, Camellya and Carlotta. I'm currently building Chixia at the moment😊
This is more on how CN does it where they think the substats you get is set in a pattern. Which in turn seems re “randomize” each time energy regen appears. In your explaination that would be the switch between short to long intervals.
TLDR They usually switch around echos and fish for “bad stats” before switching back to their main relic for their crits.
But in any case. Good job man.
My own community’s time method usually gets double crits within 100-200ish turners also. With some luck involved.
Which I did on a viewers account here
Echo “Manipulation” Doing it Myself | Wuthering Waves Account Review
ruclips.net/video/4bnFGOP8zzs/видео.html
Good vid
I lvl up my echo to +20 if i get one crt i will max it the best method I used
Is there a place with all the echo roll data? I'd like to comb through it to see all the stat distributions and process the data to see if there is more insight or hints as to how Kuro is rolling the stats on the echoes. I'm about to use over 7.5k tuners, so that could help with making more data points along with scrubbing through your vod. Let me know if we can figure something out to work on this theory
First 10 days farming new set for Carlotta: spend 16 waveplates pack and got one glacio 3 cost. Another one i find in echo farming. Got double crit on one, but lowest one, and until now (11 day of pach 2.0) i haven't see any Glasio 3 cost. That's my luck. By the way spectro radiance dropping me spectro 3 cost one from another. Next time i feel like i need to farm set first, see what pieses i got and desided which 5* character i would pull.
The amount of time it must have taken to find the average of the intervals must be insane
So, I guess this works. but a lot of us are doing the method by the genius society. I'm able to role double crits and energy that way if you read the chart.
I would really rather get rid of the need to spend waveplates/stamina on gear drops. If anything let us spend them exclusively on upgrade materials instead?? I know there are conversion systems that try to appease stamina/time lost on bad yield on gears but I think gatcha could evolve into something better if this one key thing changed.
And yeah you can do that in overworld for Wuwa, but in Wuwa’s case there’s still a steep cost per upgrade. The reward drops per union level milestones don’t change much either. The required mats to level characters increases but the mat drops have not gotten better at least to my knowledge. Though events do give out quite a bit in resource I’m not sure those events get to stay permanent either because they account for storage issues it causes for mobile users. Players who take breaks from burnout might be at a disadvantage and could have FoMo too. Though the costs can be mitigated to some degree I’d just hope the investment costs for characters and teams in general wasn’t too high.
The "crit period theory" is just stating the average chance of rolling crit stats. There is no statistical difference between your method of "mining wide" vs the traditional method of "mining tall". On average, you are using just as many echoes and tuners, the difference is that you are essentially "brute forcing" the rng by running alot of samples at once, giving you the illusion that you have a higher chance of getting double crits compared to doing them one at a time.
Statistically speaking, going to +25 for double crits, you need on average 7.8 echoes to do it, resulting in 416281 exp and 282.882 tuners needed. This is consistent with your experience of using less than 300 tuners on average. This takes 18.9219 TF runs (at UL 50+) to cover the exp cost and 14.1441 runs to cover the tuner costs.
Comparing this to going to +20 for double crits, you need on average 12.99 echoes to do it, resulting in 278430 exp and 333.71 tuners needed. This needs 12.656 TF (at UL 50+) runs to cover the exp cost and 16.686 runs to cover the tuner cost.
Strictly from a cost perspective, it's cheaper to stop at +20 when you haven't gotten your double crit roll. However, note the increased avg number of echoes from 7.8 to 12.99, almost a whopping 67% increase. It can be argued that echoes are harder to come by than EXP / Tuner. That said, sitting on loads of tubes and tuners? Go +25. Having way more roll-able echoes than you know what to do with because you farmed liked a madman? Go +20.
I'm so poor on resources I started to make my own method:
Roll per 5 levels. If you roll hp or def, trash it.
If there's no crit by the 3rd roll, trash it.
If there's no double crit on the 4th roll, trash it.
I really wish Kuro would adjust the Echo to Xp drop rate. I have more Echoes than I will ever need and not enough XP.
I use the Data Bank to recycle trash unused echoes all the time to get new ones. Idk why they don't want to give us just an Xp farm. I will never need the thousands of echos I do have because there's just not enough ways to get XP for them. I'll commend them for making it easier to level up but I'm still drowning in Echos with so little Xp items for them.
Bro farming the main stat that i want takes forever today i played around 3 hours and got only 2 glacio damage its so time consuming and none of 2 got double crit
I made a mistake of going all in and now i have no shell credits
Mine is just go 20 and if it has a good crit on the 4 enchant max 25 for the last crit rate.
6:24 99% of gamblers quit before winning big
Ive been lvling up to 10 and tune the first two substats and scrap it if i dont get a crit stat. I guess ill try this but im still skeptical.
If i understand it right, It sounds like we are "building pity" by not getting a crit stat after tuning 6 times and then tuning the 5 lvl 10 echos with at least 1 crit that u saved up. But ill still scrap em if i dont get atk or the characters needed dmg bonus in the 3 or 4th substat
We should not believe in any Rng Manipulation Methods coz in the end its all about Luck
And you would need so many Correct Main stat Echoes to Start with this method
Since this is like Classic Insurance Method in Big MMO Games
where instead of Enhancing 1 Weapon to Max level with Risk of Breaking To Enhancing Multiple Same Weapons hoping at least 1 succeeds
Yeah I forgot to put that into the CONs thanks for pointing it out! Correct main stat echoes are hard to get a lot of in a short period of time for sure but with time and as more and more players are heading into endgame of nothing other than tacet field to farm, I would assume it to be lesser of a problem but if that’s still a problem then please use traditional method! I stressed in the beginning and the end I DON’T claim this to be game-changing superior method just an alternative
@@LamentsLegacy I don't mind trying this method since I do have dozen of main stat echoes in my bag
But I do have my doubts about the Crit Period Theory
and I just read about the Chinese Live streamer's Echo rolling Skill
If you could add Clips of the CN Streamer and more details in ur next video would be good
I use time method, it's like if u get Ur crit in sec 52 or 51 then u wait and roll again when sec 51 comes again 😊. It's work most of the time for me
i tried the echomancing method with the timer thing, didn't really work for me. I'll try this one and see if I get more consistent double crits! thanks!
This is pretty much how I also roll my echoes
So, Im very dumb and I need everything explained to me like I'm 5. "Double CRIT" means having CRIT Rate and CRIT Damage in the same echo? Or can it be 2 CRIT Rates or 2 CRIT Damages? :/
Me before opening this video: This is probably going to use anecdotal evidence similar to those other bait videos. Sweetily's video on Echoes is the only thing that you need to know.
Me after watching the first few minutes: Yep. I don't know what I expected.
Here's what you need to do to get Double Crit on your Echoes.
Whenever you see a bait video, choose the option to not recommend the channel and dislike the video! Totally works! I've done this to about 5 channels now so I already have 5. This will make my 6th echo!
I'm been farming for Carlotta's new set and I'M NOT EXAGGERATING WHEN I SAY I HAVEN'T GOT ANY CRIT ROLLS
I don't think this method is optimal. I increase the echo to +15. The goal is to get 2/3 useful stats. Crits, Atk%, the required damage bonus, energy, if necessary. If the condition is met, I pump it up to 25. If not, I add +2 gold tubes and pump the next one due to this. It is also desirable that this is a medium or high value of crit, but it depends on how much echo I have in reserve for attempts.
Meanwhile me when i don't care about echo and got double crit on suport piece
I also follow your way of having “conditions” for the first 2 substats. Tho, for my case, even if I get double crits, I still dispose of it IF its crit turns out to be the lowest possible rate. (6.3% CR or 12.6/13.8 cdmg) because that’s just booo
3:22 WTF YOU HAVE MORE GOLD UPGRADE MATERIALS THAN I HAVE IN TOTAL
I have been saving up for a while!
my problem is in finding that many echoes to try. please guide me on how to farm 3star of the same kind echoes.
Hi! Yes that is a very valid concern I am sorry I forgot to talk about it in the video! There are 3 possible solutions one is to use the traditional method and just level what you have to try and get good pieces. Another is to farm tacet fields and wait for a period of time for the correct main stat echoes to be saved up. For example for me in the video i actually never farm void thunder echoes in the open world all the pieces I got in the videos are saved up over 2 months either from tacet fields or from echoes merging in the data bank. And the third solution which is not really recommended is eat food that will boost echo drop rate and farm echoes in the open world. I would recommend either using traditional method or waiting to save up correct main stats echoes from tacet field and merging!
This method is actually echo amount friendly compared to the traditional method.
It's your to go choice if you're lacking echo at the cost of burning more Echo EXP and tuners.
If you had farm more echo and have many of them ready to build, I suggest using other method for more economy on Echo EXP and tuner.
Keep in mind that, this method is for reliable rolling double crit, not endgame echo (Trifecta or Quadfecta).
Real problem for me is getting xp for echos. 8 days in game but I have (probably) decent cr 50% on havoc Rover with cd 248%. I don't really know if this is good on lvl 60 or not. No 5* weapons.
What I DO know is that method might not work on new players because, again, we don't have much of echo experience bottles to level up a lot of echos. To newcomers its more relevant to level up one boss echo with cr/cd+atk till 25, roll the stats and hope to get lucky. If not - just reuse it.
I know this guide was created for veteran players by veteran player who has more resources to spare, but it's still probably will confuse newcomers.
Personally - I like it. It's good, it has a good amount of step by step explanations, examples etc. You definitely deserve a like.
that looks good already if you get the standard crit sword you would reach 70 crit easily which is the minimum crit chance to get 😅
Rolling a mid +10 piece all the way to + 25 JUST cuz it has one crit stat is a good way to burn a LOT of resources n possibly still not have an actual good endgame piece.
Having double crit doesn’t automatically make it an endgame piece btw. But if all u care about is mid pieces that have double crit then u do u
Statistically better to keep rolling it only one substat at a time n judge if it’s worthy of pushing further at each step along the way. Like, if it has critD then 2 flat stats n u still roll it to +25 is bad strategy if ur goal is an actual endgame piece which should have at LEAST 3/5 useful stats. Cuz at that point ur hoping n praying the last 2 stats are both useful including a critR roll. N the cost of the +20 n +25 is too high to gamble on a piece that at best will still end up as just mid.
How could you know that you are not gonna get useful substats in the last rolls? You are still gonna burn those tuners and tubes on the next echoes that you wanna upgrade. You could get double crits right in the beginning, then some useless or mediocre 3rd stat. Will you stop upgrading it?
@@drakula839it’s about playing the odds. Ofc u don’t know what the last 2 subs will be. But the exp cost of going from +15 to +20 is high. N the cost from +20 to +25 even higher (about the same as rolling a fresh piece to +18). That’s a much more expensive gamble than rolling a fresh piece to +10 or +15, n that’s the problem with his approach.
So it’s rng right?
>>The more echoes u attempt the more chances u have of getting an actual endgame piece
for me, echomancing (or whatever its called) works most of the time but regardless ill still try this method as im farming for the perfect zhezhi.
Somehow managed to get great rolls with high double crits on my carlotta echoes. All other characters have like 50% crit rate with sht crit dmg
How u get so many material for that leveling haha. Mine always come to zero
This strat is alright, I just think going lowest cv to highest cv is kinda stupid, cos if you do highest first you might not have to level up your other echos and loose xp + tuners.
If im building one character i work on it for 1 week, grinding everday for its material and i get it easily
Almost 1000 Tuner and I end up with only one double crit in my ice set smh my head
Fortunately I got atk%, and skill dmg bonus on every piece and all of them have 4 useful stat (flat atk and or energy on top)
My crit value kinda suck but at least it is still good enough until next month where I will get good enough of the new echo set
Listen it's all rng there is no manipulation to get it if you think so it's placebo you're getting tricked if there was main and substats manipulation everyone would have perfect and godly stats.
yes and no, RNG done by a program does tend to have some measure of predictability because of the way random numbers are generated so it does make some sense that a statistical analysis could reveal trends on the output.
edit: forgot to mention that graph let's us see at a glance that the sample pool must be at least 500, if they where all done in a relative short time span and none got omitted I'd judge the math to be credible
@99ersify hmm
There is no rng. It is just a set of complicating rules and condition to make it feel like rng
When u play a game nothing called random/rng it's all programmed by humans
@nguyenho5859 you might as well call it rng if you can't make it what you want I'd say it's just rng
I’d hold off rolling echoes until the update and new sets release
Gonna try his technique! (≡^∇^≡)
Thank you ❤
What’s the max CD can you get? I got a three star electric echo with 21% CD
How you get so many “echoes exp thingy”? I forgot the name for it but you have tons of them in the storage
tune till lvl 15, if 2 crit yipeee, if 1 crit thn go lvl 20 if the other 2 stats are good, if no crit thn its fodder :)
When you said I'll get into the math I thought you're gonna back up your claims by probability and not by a theory from a Chinese guy and extreme mental gymnastics to employ confirmation bias especially seeing your sample size is too small to draw any meaningful conclusion