There is a good narrative here, it just isn’t executed all that clearly. Regardless, I doubt Toby Fox’s future developments wouldn’t have been as good as they were(or perhaps never would have existed at all) if it wasn’t for this game.
@@Acanofalconpunch I mean to be fair Undertale’s dialogue was actually pretty well executed, I don’t think most teenagers would be able to write a story and characters as good as Toby did then. It was clear he mostly moved on from his style of writing from Halloween Hack.
Only now (even though I played this hack, and Undertale way after that) I realise that the Genocide Run in Undertale is pretty much a callback to this. Toby himself stated that the best thing you can possibly do in a Genocide run is stop playing. Everything in that run is made to make you stop, and in the end, Megalovania once again plays during a fight you shouldn't be fighting.
14:19 I think that's the most interesting point about all of this. I can totally see why you would find all of this forced and ridiculous, even more so as it is all presented with these Earthbound sprites. However, when I experienced the game, this very contrast is exactly what shook me to the core. A colorful, happy, hopeful game is suddenly telling me all these serious and real stories of a closeted homosexual who distances himself more and more from his family, feels like a loser that did nothing substantial in his life and the one time that he felt like he could really help his son, he unintentionally kills him and his friends. It seemed like a nightmare, a depressing fever-dream. And I think that is how the infamous quotes from Dr. Andonuts are supposed to be seen as well. Toby didn't write these lines to be "cool," he didn't write this story to be "edgy." He wanted to expand outside of the original Earthbound, both in story and tone as well as gameplay. He tried to break the confines of the game, which is a reoccurring theme in his work. And one way to do that was to create tension between the two very stretched extremes: The cheerful Earthbound and the tragedy of this Andonut. But I guess the extremes are _too_ far from one another, and it all could easy fall apart and come off as nothing more than angsty, edgy teenager fanfic. I'm pretty sure Toby realized this and thankfully found ways to recreate some of these story beats MUCH better in Undertale. Alphys seems to be another attempt at Andonut's story - a quirky professor on the outside, but a self-loathing person who drowns in the horror of her own failed experiments that involved living beings. Both this hack and Undertale feature an "Algamation" in the context of Alphys and Andonuts. And also, Alphys is a lesbian (though this isn't ever a troublesome topic). But it never seems too absurd or try-hard. It's all very much within the tone of Undertale and seems to work for the broader audience. I can understand if Toby would rather this hack not getting too much attention, but I don't think it should be condemned either. It seems to have been a good opportunity for him to try out ideas that would eventually become more fleshed out and great.
Banger comment, thanks for writing this. Your perspective is pretty interesting, and what you said about Alphys further proves how important Halloween Hack is to Undertale. You never make a masterpiece the first time around. I probably would've written more about Undertale in the video if I had ya know..... finished it lmao
@@RoweReviews What's funny is that I was going to mention this "first attempt/idea is *never* the best one", a rule hat I didn't wanna believe for a long time, but it keeps getting proven time and time again... just like in this case! (Also, it's never too late to play Undertale ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) Hope you get around to it!)
oh wait just as a quick aside, alphys is actually bisexual and not a lesbian (in the mettaton quiz she gets equally flustered if you pick the undyne or asgore options), but apart from that yeah haha
Honestly a lot of people comparing this to being like an old cringey video or photo is a good metaphor, cause it shows Toby had plenty of great ideas but kind of fucked them up, and he learned for next time
It’s pretty fucked up and I love the idea. You attack a man consumed by his guilt over unintentionally killing his own child for the sake of saving the world. He believes everyone sees him as a monster and nothing else. It’s honestly cool that he kept Megalovania for his later and larger game.
@@RoweReviews RUclips never notifies me about replies or likes anymore, for some reason, so my bad about not replying sooner. If I were to make games, I’d likely have it around as dark as the Halloween Hack, but I’d add more humor. Possibly some depressing ass humor
Just for note, Ares, or Varik (as he was renamed in the English version) is a character from the obscure dungeon-crawler series Brandish. His design comes across a lot better in the art style of those games.
I’m honestly happy that this Earthbound hack exists. Without it, Undertale and ESPECIALLY Deltarune would not exist in their current state. Deltarune is basically a retelling of this hack from a adult perspective, using Undertale as a basis instead of Earthbound.
@@RoweReviews Yeah go play Deltarune! It’s great. There’s supposed to be 7 chapters of the game and 2 chapters already came out in 2018 and 2021 respectively.
@@ledetbrothers9210 speaking of deltarune this hack basically pretty much mirrors the snowgrsve route in chapter 2 *perfectly* except that the roles are reversed, in this hack it's pretty clear varik is the one actually calling the shots and the player is basically leading varik around to do what he wants to do so the player is in noelles position pretty much, this isn't obvious at the start because at first it seems like varik and the players goals are aligned perfectly, after all obviously the player would want to kill a monster thats been running around brutally killing people. But then you get to winters and realize that the monster is actually dr andonuts and this is where varik starts exerting his control over the player, af first be tries verbally encouraging you to kill him but when you refuse to kill him and go to magicant instead be realizes that won't work so he forces you to do it by not allowing you to choose whether or not you want to kill him again and not allowing you to go back to twoson from the portal near the end, so you are *forced* to kill him no matter what you do. This matches up with the snowgrsve route perfectly except like I said the roles are reversed, at first noelle goes along with you 100% willingly because she just wants to get back together with her friends and escape the dark world and she assumes kris/the player wants to do the same. But then you get her to do more and more atrocious things and by the time you get to the berdly fight and try to get her to use snowgrsve on him at first she refuses multiple times because she doesn't want to kill him but eventually she realizes she isn't the one in control and that she's going to inevitably have to do it anyway to "proceed" so to speak so she does it anyway. Now I don't know if this similarity is actually intended given what he's said about the hack in the past, BUUUUT there is a reference to "the roaring dark" in the hack and I have a suspicion that the version of winters we see is actually form an early conception of the dark world which is how andonuts was able to summon the monsters to attack winters and twoson in the first place. But hey that's just a theory, a GAAAAME FHSORY thanks for reading
"Deltarune is basically a retelling of this hack from a adult perspective, using Undertale as a basis instead of Earthbound." I can't wait for the chapter where Kris has to fight the anthropomorphic personification of main villain's repressed homosexuality by kicking in the crotch.
@Elena Wilkins although they may have had good intentions what they end up doing to me doesnt make them innocent and still evil maybe not super evil but not innocent i understand there is nuance tho
I agree. Doctor Andonuts literally states at one that he intends to use his monsters to kill all life on the planet. So, Varik's action come off as justified.
There's also a track from another game inserted in the beginning, actually. It plays when Varik first gets out of bed and walks towards the voice. That happens to be 'Synchronicity' or 'Stage Clear' from the Brandish series. Specifically, the one Toby used was from Brandish 2: a game who's soundtrack he ripped a long time ago. Will give it to Toby. Even if the whole Varik/Ares + Synchronicity is a huge Brandish shoutout, 'Synchronicity' does incredibly well as a setting song and sets the tone for the rest of the game. That's some incredible storytelling and foresight done with music right there... EDIT: Also, Varik isn't even an original character, more of a placeholder; Varik (or Ares if you prefer) is actually the protagonist of the Brandish series. Toby really liked Brandish it seems.
Rowe Reviews: today we are talking about Toby Fox's past before his popular hit Undertale, as we look at his Earthbound Halloween Ha- RUclips trying to find the game in there algorithm: _undertale_ PS: love the video mate, it sucks youtube recommended me it so late-
I loved the story being told in this hack, loved the spritework and atmosphere. Yes it's edgy, yes it's poorly balanced but theres still a great hack underneath that. The Mother series has always been light and cheerful with a creeping undertone of tragedy, this hack flips that around.
you talk about the enemies being too difficult when you show gameplay of the uberhaunt, which toby fox himself called, and i quote, an “idiot killer” the entire gimmick of it is that going into a fight with it expecting to just beat it to death is asking you to be slaughtered unless you spy on it and see that 1. it’s super weak to all statuses and one timestop will permanently prevent it from using it’s physical attacks and 2. its only psi attack is basically rendered useless by a flame pendant, and one use of magnet prevents it from using said psi attack tl;dr, use statuses against and its literally defensless, attack it like you would every other enemy and you will die horribly
Overall a great review. I think it was pretty nicely written and edited. Easily your best so far. I liked how you established your connection with the series before reviewing it. I gotta say though, I kinda wish you spent a little more time at the end with the Undertale comparisons. Not really a big ruiner for the review, but I think it could've been nice. Don't let that take away from this review though, this is easily your best and this review is a milestone for your channel worth celebrating.
this is fair review. I see where you're coming from with the earthbound medium not doing well for the subject, and that makes sense, but somehow, at least in my opinion, the change from such a fun goofy game into a psychological horror is a bit fitting. and for difficulty... I can get behind that for the most part. it does have too much grinding, but I feel like the context is kinda important: made by a diehard eb fan for
(sorry, it bugged out) made by a diehard eb can for diehard eb fans. another thing to consider that I think killed the game for some people is that it probably wasn't supposed to be fun. it was supposed to be anxiety and depression and a sorta sad story. and yes, andonuts swore too much lmao. but as for the whole choice thing, you did have the choice. was beating the game worth causing this (kind of) innocent man? it was far from perfect, but this is one of my favorite games.
What did you expect from a game made by a 17 year old kid? That’s why it’s edgy. It’s commendable that he even finished. And you can find the seeds of Undertale here. Heck I even believe that Undertale is somehow a sequel of that world. Not defending the quality really, but putting it into context in order to analyze it fairly.
It was also in the spirit of Halloween whereas with this, you could remove Halloween from it and nothing will change. The only benefit the holiday has on the Halloween Hack is the darker tone and some of the monster designs.
honestly think this game is good with the storytelling/atmosphere (someone else in the comments mentions that having a dark narrative in a playful/upbeat game makes it more unsettling and i fully agree) but the difficulty is bloated to where i just gave up and started despawning enemies whenever they appeared on screen
I find it interesting how not playing the game is the only way to not kill Dr. Andonuts. Sure, you can dismiss it, but it's similar to undertale's genocide route. You don't have to do it. It is purely driven by your own curiosity of what will happen.
I'm not going to say this is a *good* game, but it's possible the hack deserved a bit more credit. Don't get me wrong, you're the one who played through most of it, and there are clearly moments too harsh or too much packed together, but there's also a lot in its favor - at least the concepts. You did try to include this, even referencing Undertale, but you still seemed to miss some of its meaning, especially in the Id falling to nothing. Actually, did you ever see a route all the way through?
No, I never touched this hack since this video since I don't enjoy it. I know that probably wasn't the best thing to do, but I watched gameplay of it and read the dialogue. I personally don't feel like I missed whatever theme it was going for. But, if you want to share your thoughts on its meaning then feel free.
@@RoweReviews Again, I'm not going to justify the game completely, so I'll prioritize and restate. You're clearly trying to get across your outlook here, but at some point the video seemed to undercut the game a little *too* much. Various moments through the game helped keep it at ok level, but your expectation bypassed them - Andonuts's instinctual part of the brain (Id comes from the theory of Id-Ego-Superego) declining and leading to pure aggression, failing to succeed in an attack, comparison to the original game and its level of zaniness... Adding that to calling it a narrative wrapped in a bad fanfiction rather than considering it a fanfiction itself and your reaction at 16:30 proving a potential lack of awareness of your own references really started to enforce a separate message - though you did try, this may just not be the right way or effort to evaluate this.
@@CyanicCore Well of course I undercut the game. There was a point where I tapped out of it and couldn't take it seriously anymore, and that's just my personal opinion. Good for you for finding depth in this ROM hack, but for me its something I got nothing out of. I don't see this as "I missed something" I see it as "I didn't like this game and how it told its story." I wasn't exactly gonna try and overanalyze a ROM hack made by a 17 year old. I have fun in my videos, I ain't trying to dig too deep into this stuff. It's fine that you disagree though. People get different things out of certain games, I just hope you don't mean to be calling me an idot because of my "lack of awareness" ...not everyone knows what Id-Ego-Superego is ya know? Also, even if I judged this game as a fanfiction on its own, it still sucks. The hack has solid concepts, and I said that in this video. It's just that those concepts weren't executed in the best way in my opinion. Toby took what worked and made Undertale, and that's what important. It's not often people critique my videos, so props to you. I'm just stating my thoughts, not defending myself.
@@RoweReviews @Rowe Reviews I just wanted to give 'credit' where it's due. Sorry if lines like "lack of awareness" sounded aggressive, I was aiming to highlight the lack of context (such as knowing about the Id-etc, which I frankly may have justified beyond the game's use itself), details or facts that may improve your understanding but aren't guaranteed to be known. This really mattered around 16:30, where you said just quitting doesn't count as an option. Both major routes of Undertale specifically mention this, especially one of the last options in the Genocide route. This thread turned into a sort of ramble, didn't it? It was clear initially my reply could appear misleading, but leaving nothing in response to your prompt felt worse. Hopefully that clears things?
@@CyanicCore It's all good, I wasnt offended or anything really. And yeah the "quitting as an option thing" was something I sorta knew about being in undertale. But, since I never finished that game, I wasn't sure. Would have mentioned it if I knew though since it's interesting.
15:53 even though you didnt show the homophobic quotes from Dr.Andonuts. It is stereotypical of aggressive closeted men who would say such things. 2008 was a different time that the Tumblr/Twitteraity community could not grasp and wouldn't be surprised why Toby Fox would want to distance himself because how ignorant they are of the two different time periods. Ive unknowingly(before knowing that he actually made these roms) played the Halloween Hack and Arn's winter quest some time ago and I can see the parallels of the nature of the dialogue in Undertale and Deltarune. It still has that teenager feel. I would not call it that edgy because such a critic didnt exsist then. It seems like that typical strange teen behavior. Exept the difference today some people now never grow out of it unlike in the past.
There is a good narrative here, it just isn’t executed all that clearly. Regardless, I doubt Toby Fox’s future developments wouldn’t have been as good as they were(or perhaps never would have existed at all) if it wasn’t for this game.
Yeah, like... this is VERY CLEARLY written by a teenager.
@@SeanStrife it obviously had work put into it though
@@SeanStrife i thought the same way while playing undertale.
Good narrative executed poorly. Isn’t that just most fanfiction?
@@Acanofalconpunch I mean to be fair Undertale’s dialogue was actually pretty well executed, I don’t think most teenagers would be able to write a story and characters as good as Toby did then. It was clear he mostly moved on from his style of writing from Halloween Hack.
Only now (even though I played this hack, and Undertale way after that) I realise that the Genocide Run in Undertale is pretty much a callback to this. Toby himself stated that the best thing you can possibly do in a Genocide run is stop playing. Everything in that run is made to make you stop, and in the end, Megalovania once again plays during a fight you shouldn't be fighting.
hallowen hack is the equivalent to an old cringe private video
THE EARTHBOUND HALLOWEEN HACK LEAD TO ONE OF THE BEST INDIE GAMES CREATED.
*proceeds to use PK love and PK rockin*
14:19 I think that's the most interesting point about all of this. I can totally see why you would find all of this forced and ridiculous, even more so as it is all presented with these Earthbound sprites. However, when I experienced the game, this very contrast is exactly what shook me to the core. A colorful, happy, hopeful game is suddenly telling me all these serious and real stories of a closeted homosexual who distances himself more and more from his family, feels like a loser that did nothing substantial in his life and the one time that he felt like he could really help his son, he unintentionally kills him and his friends. It seemed like a nightmare, a depressing fever-dream. And I think that is how the infamous quotes from Dr. Andonuts are supposed to be seen as well. Toby didn't write these lines to be "cool," he didn't write this story to be "edgy." He wanted to expand outside of the original Earthbound, both in story and tone as well as gameplay. He tried to break the confines of the game, which is a reoccurring theme in his work. And one way to do that was to create tension between the two very stretched extremes: The cheerful Earthbound and the tragedy of this Andonut.
But I guess the extremes are _too_ far from one another, and it all could easy fall apart and come off as nothing more than angsty, edgy teenager fanfic. I'm pretty sure Toby realized this and thankfully found ways to recreate some of these story beats MUCH better in Undertale. Alphys seems to be another attempt at Andonut's story - a quirky professor on the outside, but a self-loathing person who drowns in the horror of her own failed experiments that involved living beings. Both this hack and Undertale feature an "Algamation" in the context of Alphys and Andonuts. And also, Alphys is a lesbian (though this isn't ever a troublesome topic). But it never seems too absurd or try-hard. It's all very much within the tone of Undertale and seems to work for the broader audience.
I can understand if Toby would rather this hack not getting too much attention, but I don't think it should be condemned either. It seems to have been a good opportunity for him to try out ideas that would eventually become more fleshed out and great.
Banger comment, thanks for writing this. Your perspective is pretty interesting, and what you said about Alphys further proves how important Halloween Hack is to Undertale. You never make a masterpiece the first time around. I probably would've written more about Undertale in the video if I had ya know..... finished it lmao
@@RoweReviews What's funny is that I was going to mention this "first attempt/idea is *never* the best one", a rule hat I didn't wanna believe for a long time, but it keeps getting proven time and time again... just like in this case!
(Also, it's never too late to play Undertale ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) Hope you get around to it!)
oh wait just as a quick aside, alphys is actually bisexual and not a lesbian (in the mettaton quiz she gets equally flustered if you pick the undyne or asgore options), but apart from that yeah haha
@@arttrixmix7178 I totally forgot about that, oh man. It's been a while since I played... thanks for pointing this out!
He 100% wrote it for the edge factor.
Honestly a lot of people comparing this to being like an old cringey video or photo is a good metaphor, cause it shows Toby had plenty of great ideas but kind of fucked them up, and he learned for next time
It’s pretty fucked up and I love the idea. You attack a man consumed by his guilt over unintentionally killing his own child for the sake of saving the world. He believes everyone sees him as a monster and nothing else. It’s honestly cool that he kept Megalovania for his later and larger game.
The core plot is quite interesting. I feel like if someone adapted it into an original context it would be epic
@@RoweReviews RUclips never notifies me about replies or likes anymore, for some reason, so my bad about not replying sooner. If I were to make games, I’d likely have it around as dark as the Halloween Hack, but I’d add more humor. Possibly some depressing ass humor
@@lextavactchi Sounds cool
@@lextavactchi You're talking about LISA: The Painful.
Not just his later game, he can't stop fucking using it and I don't really like that. I don't think he should be so stuck on this song as he is.
I feel like this game being edgy gave the hack its charm. I honestly like it for being this way.
Yeah, as ridiculous as andonuts' rant is, it's so iconic and I can't help but to like it
@@TheRealSuperKirby Andonuts was fucking insane. I love the Id and Andonuts boss fights.
Just for note, Ares, or Varik (as he was renamed in the English version) is a character from the obscure dungeon-crawler series Brandish. His design comes across a lot better in the art style of those games.
I’m honestly happy that this Earthbound hack exists.
Without it, Undertale and ESPECIALLY Deltarune would not exist in their current state.
Deltarune is basically a retelling of this hack from a adult perspective, using Undertale as a basis instead of Earthbound.
Oh for sure, I cant deny that. Everyone has to start somewhere
Still gotta play Deltartune tho
@@RoweReviews
Yeah go play Deltarune!
It’s great.
There’s supposed to be 7 chapters of the game and 2 chapters already came out in 2018 and 2021 respectively.
@@ledetbrothers9210 speaking of deltarune this hack basically pretty much mirrors the snowgrsve route in chapter 2 *perfectly* except that the roles are reversed, in this hack it's pretty clear varik is the one actually calling the shots and the player is basically leading varik around to do what he wants to do so the player is in noelles position pretty much, this isn't obvious at the start because at first it seems like varik and the players goals are aligned perfectly, after all obviously the player would want to kill a monster thats been running around brutally killing people. But then you get to winters and realize that the monster is actually dr andonuts and this is where varik starts exerting his control over the player, af first be tries verbally encouraging you to kill him but when you refuse to kill him and go to magicant instead be realizes that won't work so he forces you to do it by not allowing you to choose whether or not you want to kill him again and not allowing you to go back to twoson from the portal near the end, so you are *forced* to kill him no matter what you do. This matches up with the snowgrsve route perfectly except like I said the roles are reversed, at first noelle goes along with you 100% willingly because she just wants to get back together with her friends and escape the dark world and she assumes kris/the player wants to do the same. But then you get her to do more and more atrocious things and by the time you get to the berdly fight and try to get her to use snowgrsve on him at first she refuses multiple times because she doesn't want to kill him but eventually she realizes she isn't the one in control and that she's going to inevitably have to do it anyway to "proceed" so to speak so she does it anyway.
Now I don't know if this similarity is actually intended given what he's said about the hack in the past, BUUUUT there is a reference to "the roaring dark" in the hack and I have a suspicion that the version of winters we see is actually form an early conception of the dark world which is how andonuts was able to summon the monsters to attack winters and twoson in the first place. But hey that's just a theory, a GAAAAME FHSORY thanks for reading
"Deltarune is basically a retelling of this hack from a adult perspective, using Undertale as a basis instead of Earthbound."
I can't wait for the chapter where Kris has to fight the anthropomorphic personification of main villain's repressed homosexuality by kicking in the crotch.
The idea of a fun goofy game turning into a psychological horror game is an idea used both in Deltarune's Snowgrave route and EB: Halloween Hack.
Well, technically Varik is not an OC, it is a character from Brandish 2
I always thought Varik had to come from _somewhere,_ but not knowing where bugged the living hell outta me.
even toby hates it lol
The sewers were the worst area in the game honestly, the amount of times I died was countless.
I dont like how it trys and make dr andonauts innocent when he made the monstors
@Elena Wilkins although they may have had good intentions what they end up doing to me doesnt make them innocent and still evil maybe not super evil but not innocent i understand there is nuance tho
I agree. Doctor Andonuts literally states at one that he intends to use his monsters to kill all life on the planet. So, Varik's action come off as justified.
@Elena Wilkins Yes. Asgore did deserve death. He was planning the genocide of the human race and already had six people killed.
From Edgelord to a Chad. What an evolution...
Rowe Reviews Moment
Truly is
There's also a track from another game inserted in the beginning, actually. It plays when Varik first gets out of bed and walks towards the voice. That happens to be 'Synchronicity' or 'Stage Clear' from the Brandish series. Specifically, the one Toby used was from Brandish 2: a game who's soundtrack he ripped a long time ago.
Will give it to Toby. Even if the whole Varik/Ares + Synchronicity is a huge Brandish shoutout, 'Synchronicity' does incredibly well as a setting song and sets the tone for the rest of the game. That's some incredible storytelling and foresight done with music right there...
EDIT:
Also, Varik isn't even an original character, more of a placeholder; Varik (or Ares if you prefer) is actually the protagonist of the Brandish series. Toby really liked Brandish it seems.
Rowe Reviews: today we are talking about Toby Fox's past before his popular hit Undertale, as we look at his Earthbound Halloween Ha-
RUclips trying to find the game in there algorithm: _undertale_
PS: love the video mate, it sucks youtube recommended me it so late-
Halloween Hack’s Megalovania is cool
I loved the story being told in this hack, loved the spritework and atmosphere. Yes it's edgy, yes it's poorly balanced but theres still a great hack underneath that. The Mother series has always been light and cheerful with a creeping undertone of tragedy, this hack flips that around.
you talk about the enemies being too difficult when you show gameplay of the uberhaunt, which toby fox himself called, and i quote, an “idiot killer”
the entire gimmick of it is that going into a fight with it expecting to just beat it to death is asking you to be slaughtered
unless you spy on it and see that 1. it’s super weak to all statuses and one timestop will permanently prevent it from using it’s physical attacks and 2. its only psi attack is basically rendered useless by a flame pendant, and one use of magnet prevents it from using said psi attack
tl;dr, use statuses against and its literally defensless, attack it like you would every other enemy and you will die horribly
I still can't believe the game doesn't tell you about having to spare enemies by not killing enemies.
I didn’t think it was over edgy it felt fine to me personally, but I do agree that the enemies are too strong.
Overall a great review. I think it was pretty nicely written and edited. Easily your best so far. I liked how you established your connection with the series before reviewing it. I gotta say though, I kinda wish you spent a little more time at the end with the Undertale comparisons. Not really a big ruiner for the review, but I think it could've been nice. Don't let that take away from this review though, this is easily your best and this review is a milestone for your channel worth celebrating.
Thanks! Never finished Undertale actually, kinda why I didn't go farther into it. But I'm glad it didn't ruin the vid for ya
wait what holy crap that's my art
that's cool
Best Andonuts sprite I could find ;)
nice pfp
this is fair review. I see where you're coming from with the earthbound medium not doing well for the subject, and that makes sense, but somehow, at least in my opinion, the change from such a fun goofy game into a psychological horror is a bit fitting. and for difficulty... I can get behind that for the most part. it does have too much grinding, but I feel like the context is kinda important: made by a diehard eb fan for
(sorry, it bugged out) made by a diehard eb can for diehard eb fans. another thing to consider that I think killed the game for some people is that it probably wasn't supposed to be fun. it was supposed to be anxiety and depression and a sorta sad story. and yes, andonuts swore too much lmao. but as for the whole choice thing, you did have the choice. was beating the game worth causing this (kind of) innocent man? it was far from perfect, but this is one of my favorite games.
What did you expect from a game made by a 17 year old kid? That’s why it’s edgy. It’s commendable that he even finished. And you can find the seeds of Undertale here. Heck I even believe that Undertale is somehow a sequel of that world. Not defending the quality really, but putting it into context in order to analyze it fairly.
I thought he was 15.
Hallow's end was the better Halloween Hack anyway.
It was also in the spirit of Halloween whereas with this, you could remove Halloween from it and nothing will change. The only benefit the holiday has on the Halloween Hack is the darker tone and some of the monster designs.
If some random kid made this and not toby fox yall would be slamming it and saying it's the worst and cringiest hack
True, just because Toby Fox made a good game later on, doesn't automatically make this hack good.
if Toby remade this that would be pretty cool i think
Pot Roast
nice
Another connection from undertale/deltarune is that if you put Varik and Kris side by side, they look similar in a way.
And Noelle is similar to Andonuts in some ways
honestly think this game is good with the storytelling/atmosphere (someone else in the comments mentions that having a dark narrative in a playful/upbeat game makes it more unsettling and i fully agree) but the difficulty is bloated to where i just gave up and started despawning enemies whenever they appeared on screen
Varik is actually from the Brandish franchise, not an original character.
Badtimeimeime
I do think that a part of the point of the hack is to be so edgy that it borders on parody
varikk isn't a original character, it's from an old rpg game that i can't care to find it's name
Varik isn't an original character he's from brandish.
I find it interesting how not playing the game is the only way to not kill Dr. Andonuts. Sure, you can dismiss it, but it's similar to undertale's genocide route. You don't have to do it. It is purely driven by your own curiosity of what will happen.
is there a fan game of this hack in the same vain as Tyke and sons lumber co?
varik’s from brandish
I hate to be the emo earthbound character police but varik is actually from the game "brandish"
I’ll leave you with the following question; is pipis egg or milt?
Sounds way better than the original game, lol
Its not really
@@gimmekromer1151 That's the literal joke I was making in my comment
@@BlazeTekHybrid much like this rom hack, the point was poorly conveyed.
@@Shiirow I'm too tired right now to understand your comment. I'll get back to it in the morning
he never got back to your comment :(
he died in his sleep.
14:54
I'm not going to say this is a *good* game, but it's possible the hack deserved a bit more credit. Don't get me wrong, you're the one who played through most of it, and there are clearly moments too harsh or too much packed together, but there's also a lot in its favor - at least the concepts. You did try to include this, even referencing Undertale, but you still seemed to miss some of its meaning, especially in the Id falling to nothing.
Actually, did you ever see a route all the way through?
No, I never touched this hack since this video since I don't enjoy it. I know that probably wasn't the best thing to do, but I watched gameplay of it and read the dialogue. I personally don't feel like I missed whatever theme it was going for. But, if you want to share your thoughts on its meaning then feel free.
@@RoweReviews Again, I'm not going to justify the game completely, so I'll prioritize and restate. You're clearly trying to get across your outlook here, but at some point the video seemed to undercut the game a little *too* much. Various moments through the game helped keep it at ok level, but your expectation bypassed them - Andonuts's instinctual part of the brain (Id comes from the theory of Id-Ego-Superego) declining and leading to pure aggression, failing to succeed in an attack, comparison to the original game and its level of zaniness... Adding that to calling it a narrative wrapped in a bad fanfiction rather than considering it a fanfiction itself and your reaction at 16:30 proving a potential lack of awareness of your own references really started to enforce a separate message - though you did try, this may just not be the right way or effort to evaluate this.
@@CyanicCore Well of course I undercut the game. There was a point where I tapped out of it and couldn't take it seriously anymore, and that's just my personal opinion. Good for you for finding depth in this ROM hack, but for me its something I got nothing out of. I don't see this as "I missed something" I see it as "I didn't like this game and how it told its story." I wasn't exactly gonna try and overanalyze a ROM hack made by a 17 year old. I have fun in my videos, I ain't trying to dig too deep into this stuff. It's fine that you disagree though. People get different things out of certain games, I just hope you don't mean to be calling me an idot because of my "lack of awareness" ...not everyone knows what Id-Ego-Superego is ya know? Also, even if I judged this game as a fanfiction on its own, it still sucks.
The hack has solid concepts, and I said that in this video. It's just that those concepts weren't executed in the best way in my opinion. Toby took what worked and made Undertale, and that's what important. It's not often people critique my videos, so props to you. I'm just stating my thoughts, not defending myself.
@@RoweReviews @Rowe Reviews I just wanted to give 'credit' where it's due. Sorry if lines like "lack of awareness" sounded aggressive, I was aiming to highlight the lack of context (such as knowing about the Id-etc, which I frankly may have justified beyond the game's use itself), details or facts that may improve your understanding but aren't guaranteed to be known. This really mattered around 16:30, where you said just quitting doesn't count as an option. Both major routes of Undertale specifically mention this, especially one of the last options in the Genocide route.
This thread turned into a sort of ramble, didn't it? It was clear initially my reply could appear misleading, but leaving nothing in response to your prompt felt worse. Hopefully that clears things?
@@CyanicCore It's all good, I wasnt offended or anything really. And yeah the "quitting as an option thing" was something I sorta knew about being in undertale. But, since I never finished that game, I wasn't sure. Would have mentioned it if I knew though since it's interesting.
15:53 even though you didnt show the homophobic quotes from Dr.Andonuts. It is stereotypical of aggressive closeted men who would say such things. 2008 was a different time that the Tumblr/Twitteraity community could not grasp and wouldn't be surprised why Toby Fox would want to distance himself because how ignorant they are of the two different time periods.
Ive unknowingly(before knowing that he actually made these roms) played the Halloween Hack and Arn's winter quest some time ago and I can see the parallels of the nature of the dialogue in Undertale and Deltarune. It still has that teenager feel.
I would not call it that edgy because such a critic didnt exsist then. It seems like that typical strange teen behavior. Exept the difference today some people now never grow out of it unlike in the past.
From Earthbound to Holloween Rom Hack
From Undertale to Deltarune
Can we talk about that varik is from brandish and not the halloween hack?
Congratulations! You're the 10th person to tell me this!
@@RoweReviews wait ... ONLY 10?!