Hi Guys. Interesting test. Regarding the LV2, as you are aware, it is a gun that operates best when tuned. It has a multitude of adjustable parameters, such as Dwell, LPR, SFR, HPR etc. Tuning for room temp and for sub zero temps will require very different settings. As is the case here. Unlike most of the other guns you tested, the LV2 is critically dwelled. This means the dwell directly effects velocity. And dwell requirement at room temp will be significantly different to the requirement at sub zero temps. We do actually provide a full tuning guide with the LV2, in the manual, as well as information and recommendations on cold weather play. We Always recommend that LV2 users tune there marker for the conditions they are playing in. And moving from a warm environment to a cold one would always require some kind of adjustment to get the best out of it. There are other markers in the PE range for users that prefer the "pick it up and play, any day, any way" functionality, but the LV2 was designed and built for those that like to tinker and tune, and should be treated as such, in our opinion. As far as the other 2 PE guns, as far as I could tell, neither broke any paint, failed to fire, had low velocity, or first shot drop off, or bolt stick, or leaked. As an FYI the pilot valve and solenoid seals in the CS3 and 180R are the same. There are slight differences in the spool and solenoid body length due to packaging differences.
Thanks for the clarification Jack! Maybe I will have to increase dwell on a future Cold weather LV2 video. Thanks for watching and hope all is well across the pond
very inconsistent velocity and the bolt not moving consistently could indicate too low lpr pressure, it should be increased until the velocity is more stable, I don't know well the lv2 but I thought it has a bolt cycle smoothing tuning too that could require adjustment. I would like to see a cold tuning video. Sometimes on cold events everybody is chopping and it would be nice to see how to quickly tune the gun.
First rule of cold paintball. Whether your gun works indoors is irrelevant. 😁 Tune your gun for the conditions after you climatize the gun, if it's a tunable gun. Dwell time must go up on guns with adjustable dwell. LPR must go up as well if you have one. Eye delay time must go up since bolt cycling speeds may be erratic. ABS settings must go up due to sticktion. Use thinner grease everywhere, even in the regulators. Usually lower operating pressure guns will do better due to noids which can handle more volume by design which leads to less expansion and cooling during operation but as you can see it's not always the case. Great video........winter ballin is no joke!
I’m from CT and can’t agree more!I would also recommend by a handheld chrono for this purpose! After see the whole video: I had BL in the past. I had an insight 2013 trying to play in February/March and the bolt snapped in half. Their customer service was great and replaced it. My Shocker NXT never gives me problems in cold weather : just the tuning. My DM12 at the time worked flawlessly. I switched to the CS PLATFORM in 2015 I believe and it handled with no issues in colder weather. Try before you buy! But it seems smart parts/dlx still know what they are doing cause that thing works nice!!! Keep up the videos.
With the M3, you will need to update the software to the newest revision and set the dwell to "max." I'm the reason for that software update. Without the update, the maximum dwell time will not be sufficient. In general, cold weather performance highlights the criticality of seal fitment, lubricant condition and dwell. Anything that's critically-dwelled, or close to it, will underperform until you reach a dwell time sufficient to allow the system to fully cycle. In these conditions, things move slower so the dwell time needs to be considerably raised to account for that. Certain systems perform better than others, with the main variable being shift force, hence why the PE Gamma and Gamma copies performed admirably. I'm an old cold weather and stress test guru so feel free to ask if you have any questions.
Hey thanks for being real and not just spouting the typical Planet is more reliable, or Dye doesn't work in cold weather (which the m3+ proved yet again but the DSR+ disproved). The shocker Era seems like straight money . I actually saw some planet guns go down this past weekend with bolt stick. The two forces seemed a bit inconsistent. Meanwhile my Eblade and Amp had zero issues I've personally only ever had issues with my Amp one time and it was 10 degree air temperature when we started and got colder not sure about wind chill but we were in the woods shooting a commercial for the local field. I was shooting as fast as I could with the mech frame and had a mixture of winter paint he gave me for the shoot and some summer paint. The summer paint was breaking in full pods so I'm not sure anything could have shot it
Used my Dye markers below freezing and they all worked fine. The paint just kept blowing up last time I played in freezing weather. My m3+, dm15, and dm9 all worked fine though. Things probably just needed fiddling with to get their guns to run properly.
Very good and fair video! The LV2 shocked me the most. Very impressed with the ERA and I knew the CS3 and TM40 would be fine. That ERA has really got me thinking about upgrading from my Amp 🤔
@@awade__ Please take a look at my comment above. The LV2 "will" work perfectly in sub zero conditions, but if you are swapping between warm days and sub zero days you will need to make some small adjustments that are covered in the manual and on our website in order to get the most out of your gun.
Man I really really love my Era. I went from Amp, that I love, to LV2. Didn't really like the LV. Got rid of LV and bought the Era. In my hands the Era felt better and my first shot is on point. I'm very very happy with it. I'm here in Florida so I don't play much in freezing weather tho.
@tonyparra568 I may just save up for the ERA instead of trying to sell my Amp. I've got way to much $$ wrapped into with upgrades and extra parts. With the current market on Amps it ain't worth selling.
I’d go either cs3 or shocker. I prefer cs3 because it just feels more solid in my hands. Shocker feels like I bought it from target but it shoots and performs very well. As to why ac diesel play with it, it is still a solid marker.
Fascinating video. I've never experienced playing PB during snowy weather and this is some good info. Will you be testing other guns as well? I'm very curious about how Magfed does in cold weather conditions.
one of my local fields had a choice between G.I Field & G.I Arctic I think is what it was called. The arctic obviously made for very cold weather. The field paint actually shot better than the stuff that was made particularly for cold weather. Temperatures were 27F in the morning getting up to 40 by mid day once the the sun had been out for a bit. The weird thing was that the arctic stuff was shooting better through Tippmann markers and that sort of stuff though?
I bet it was still running the old software revision, so no surprise at all at the cycling issues. I recommend the new revision and "max" dwell for cold weather operation.
With my understanding of physics I would assume your tank gets colder simply because you are reducing the amount of energy in the tank. Similar to the magic happening in an AC condenser/compressor. The ideal gas law (PV = nRT) basically shows that when pressure falls, temperature falls too. It also means that increasing temperature increases pressure. So a paintball tank/marker gets cold for the same reason a can of coke will explode if you boil it. Feel free to correct me if I missed something
My newest poppet marker is a 2003 impulse so maybe the LV2 is different, but if not, the LPR just adjusts how much pressure moves the bolt back and forth, and the HPR adjusts how much pressure is going to hit the ball. Both technically can influence velocity, but if the bolt is fully cycling, the HPR should be what you go to first to see if you can get the velocity up. Again, i could be very wrong about how modern poppets function, but it's worth mentioning just in case the LV2 is getting some undue negativity from its performance here
Regardless of timeframe, the fundamental concepts haven't changed. The HPR supplies the valve chamber and the LPR. The LPR reduces the pressure and supplies it to the solenoid, which supplies the ram.
i'm not as concerned with how the marker operates at 27 degrees. i'm more concerned with me. haha. i would absolutely fail in that weather. no doubt about it.
What about using a different lube? Is there a lube that can be used across all those guns that will allow the bolts to cycle like normal in cold temperatures?
My preferred greases for cold weather operation are Immortal Air, Lurker and the new Dye formula. All 3 can be used universally and hold up very well in extreme conditions.
How long did the guns sit in the cold before the test began? Also after the test was conducted I would like the guns that did well in a second test after they sat in the cold for longer. To confirm a true winner.
I'm gonna get an era now. I play in the cold cause I'm in Colorado and have had most the issues in the video happen with a handful of other markers, mostly ones in the video lol. @@PunishersPaintball
It was a barrel break. Also, in California where the marker is made they aren’t exactly a cold weather environment like the NE or MW so there could be issues in colder weather for sure. My force will shoot in the cold, but always nervous about it failing in the cold.
There’s about a 99% chance the ASA was reassembled incorrectly on that M3+ at some point. I’ve seen it multiple times where the plate for the pin valve isn’t quite fully seated and the gun will leak or work completely fine. It displays that identical firing symptom.
I've noticed in ALL these paintball videos throughout the years, NO ONE has a damn knife to cut open bags of paint. Everyone is struggling to either tear or bite the bags open like a bunch of idiotic heathens.
Any dye gun is crap in cold weather PE is the only way to go with cold weather. My lv2 works perfect btw and I play in NH all the time. Also had an m3+ and was the worstttttttttttt. The dsr+ I also had and it worked fine but I didn't have it that long to know.
Hi Guys. Interesting test. Regarding the LV2, as you are aware, it is a gun that operates best when tuned. It has a multitude of adjustable parameters, such as Dwell, LPR, SFR, HPR etc. Tuning for room temp and for sub zero temps will require very different settings. As is the case here. Unlike most of the other guns you tested, the LV2 is critically dwelled. This means the dwell directly effects velocity. And dwell requirement at room temp will be significantly different to the requirement at sub zero temps. We do actually provide a full tuning guide with the LV2, in the manual, as well as information and recommendations on cold weather play. We Always recommend that LV2 users tune there marker for the conditions they are playing in. And moving from a warm environment to a cold one would always require some kind of adjustment to get the best out of it. There are other markers in the PE range for users that prefer the "pick it up and play, any day, any way" functionality, but the LV2 was designed and built for those that like to tinker and tune, and should be treated as such, in our opinion.
As far as the other 2 PE guns, as far as I could tell, neither broke any paint, failed to fire, had low velocity, or first shot drop off, or bolt stick, or leaked.
As an FYI the pilot valve and solenoid seals in the CS3 and 180R are the same. There are slight differences in the spool and solenoid body length due to packaging differences.
Thanks for the clarification Jack! Maybe I will have to increase dwell on a future Cold weather LV2 video. Thanks for watching and hope all is well across the pond
very inconsistent velocity and the bolt not moving consistently could indicate too low lpr pressure, it should be increased until the velocity is more stable, I don't know well the lv2 but I thought it has a bolt cycle smoothing tuning too that could require adjustment. I would like to see a cold tuning video. Sometimes on cold events everybody is chopping and it would be nice to see how to quickly tune the gun.
First rule of cold paintball. Whether your gun works indoors is irrelevant. 😁 Tune your gun for the conditions after you climatize the gun, if it's a tunable gun. Dwell time must go up on guns with adjustable dwell. LPR must go up as well if you have one. Eye delay time must go up since bolt cycling speeds may be erratic. ABS settings must go up due to sticktion. Use thinner grease everywhere, even in the regulators. Usually lower operating pressure guns will do better due to noids which can handle more volume by design which leads to less expansion and cooling during operation but as you can see it's not always the case. Great video........winter ballin is no joke!
Not even just that the m3+ updated their boards so you can up the dwell for cold weather
I’m from CT and can’t agree more!I would also recommend by a handheld chrono for this purpose! After see the whole video: I had BL in the past. I had an insight 2013 trying to play in February/March and the bolt snapped in half. Their customer service was great and replaced it. My Shocker NXT never gives me problems in cold weather : just the tuning. My DM12 at the time worked flawlessly. I switched to the CS PLATFORM in 2015 I believe and it handled with no issues in colder weather. Try before you buy! But it seems smart parts/dlx still know what they are doing cause that thing works nice!!! Keep up the videos.
What would you set dwell, lpr, eye delay, abs to for 30 to 50 degree weather? And let’s say vs 70 degree weather?
This is great. Awsome video
With the M3, you will need to update the software to the newest revision and set the dwell to "max." I'm the reason for that software update. Without the update, the maximum dwell time will not be sufficient.
In general, cold weather performance highlights the criticality of seal fitment, lubricant condition and dwell. Anything that's critically-dwelled, or close to it, will underperform until you reach a dwell time sufficient to allow the system to fully cycle. In these conditions, things move slower so the dwell time needs to be considerably raised to account for that.
Certain systems perform better than others, with the main variable being shift force, hence why the PE Gamma and Gamma copies performed admirably. I'm an old cold weather and stress test guru so feel free to ask if you have any questions.
Me watching this when I live in California. Great vid!
Hey thanks for being real and not just spouting the typical Planet is more reliable, or Dye doesn't work in cold weather (which the m3+ proved yet again but the DSR+ disproved). The shocker Era seems like straight money . I actually saw some planet guns go down this past weekend with bolt stick. The two forces seemed a bit inconsistent. Meanwhile my Eblade and Amp had zero issues
I've personally only ever had issues with my Amp one time and it was 10 degree air temperature when we started and got colder not sure about wind chill but we were in the woods shooting a commercial for the local field. I was shooting as fast as I could with the mech frame and had a mixture of winter paint he gave me for the shoot and some summer paint. The summer paint was breaking in full pods so I'm not sure anything could have shot it
Used my Dye markers below freezing and they all worked fine. The paint just kept blowing up last time I played in freezing weather. My m3+, dm15, and dm9 all worked fine though. Things probably just needed fiddling with to get their guns to run properly.
Very good and fair video! The LV2 shocked me the most. Very impressed with the ERA and I knew the CS3 and TM40 would be fine. That ERA has really got me thinking about upgrading from my Amp 🤔
No kidding, I was just thinking ab buying an LV2. The Era seems like it's going to be hard to compete with from a price to performance standpoint
@@awade__ Please take a look at my comment above. The LV2 "will" work perfectly in sub zero conditions, but if you are swapping between warm days and sub zero days you will need to make some small adjustments that are covered in the manual and on our website in order to get the most out of your gun.
Man I really really love my Era. I went from Amp, that I love, to LV2. Didn't really like the LV. Got rid of LV and bought the Era. In my hands the Era felt better and my first shot is on point. I'm very very happy with it. I'm here in Florida so I don't play much in freezing weather tho.
@tonyparra568 I may just save up for the ERA instead of trying to sell my Amp. I've got way to much $$ wrapped into with upgrades and extra parts. With the current market on Amps it ain't worth selling.
I’d go either cs3 or shocker. I prefer cs3 because it just feels more solid in my hands. Shocker feels like I bought it from target but it shoots and performs very well. As to why ac diesel play with it, it is still a solid marker.
Fascinating video. I've never experienced playing PB during snowy weather and this is some good info. Will you be testing other guns as well? I'm very curious about how Magfed does in cold weather conditions.
No GT2?
Cold can effect regulators based on what lube is being used.
one of my local fields had a choice between G.I Field & G.I Arctic I think is what it was called. The arctic obviously made for very cold weather. The field paint actually shot better than the stuff that was made particularly for cold weather. Temperatures were 27F in the morning getting up to 40 by mid day once the the sun had been out for a bit.
The weird thing was that the arctic stuff was shooting better through Tippmann markers and that sort of stuff though?
I was hoping the tm40 would shine. Getting one here soon but the coldest we play would be in the 20s
I’d say it’s more about the paintballs being cold vs the guns
On the M3+ do you know what the dwell was set at? If its set to High it should shoot great in cold weather.
I bet it was still running the old software revision, so no surprise at all at the cycling issues. I recommend the new revision and "max" dwell for cold weather operation.
With my understanding of physics I would assume your tank gets colder simply because you are reducing the amount of energy in the tank. Similar to the magic happening in an AC condenser/compressor. The ideal gas law (PV = nRT) basically shows that when pressure falls, temperature falls too. It also means that increasing temperature increases pressure. So a paintball tank/marker gets cold for the same reason a can of coke will explode if you boil it. Feel free to correct me if I missed something
My newest poppet marker is a 2003 impulse so maybe the LV2 is different, but if not, the LPR just adjusts how much pressure moves the bolt back and forth, and the HPR adjusts how much pressure is going to hit the ball. Both technically can influence velocity, but if the bolt is fully cycling, the HPR should be what you go to first to see if you can get the velocity up. Again, i could be very wrong about how modern poppets function, but it's worth mentioning just in case the LV2 is getting some undue negativity from its performance here
Regardless of timeframe, the fundamental concepts haven't changed. The HPR supplies the valve chamber and the LPR. The LPR reduces the pressure and supplies it to the solenoid, which supplies the ram.
Chopping or barrel breaking? There is a difference and a big difference.
Did your CS3 do great? As anticipated?
The era did well bc its a slightly improved second version copy of the gamma core.
The same goes for the TM40.
i'm not as concerned with how the marker operates at 27 degrees. i'm more concerned with me. haha. i would absolutely fail in that weather. no doubt about it.
Lol😂
03:53 is that a custom color or where can one find one of those? Looks nice! could not find on website?
That is actually Joel’s personal CS3. If you’re interested in picking one up like this please let us know!
@@PunishersPaintball Thanks for the reply. Now i see on your webpage - as a custom paint. Nice, will do!
Watching this in FL like hmm yes interesting 🤣
What about using a different lube? Is there a lube that can be used across all those guns that will allow the bolts to cycle like normal in cold temperatures?
Not really. We have messed around with this before with different viscosity and didn’t affect things majorly
@@PunishersPaintball then I suppose buying aftermarket lubes is pointless?
My preferred greases for cold weather operation are Immortal Air, Lurker and the new Dye formula. All 3 can be used universally and hold up very well in extreme conditions.
How long did the guns sit in the cold before the test began? Also after the test was conducted I would like the guns that did well in a second test after they sat in the cold for longer. To confirm a true winner.
They had sat in cold weather for 20+ minutes. Long enough for everything to equalize
DYE is the ford of paintball...
whats up with the force, Is that the anno? Didn't you Joel used to shoot an m3+?
Yes, shot an M3 but will no longer. I have 88K on my Cs3 with zero issues and love it. Only thing I would potentially consider is an Era to be honest
I'm gonna get an era now. I play in the cold cause I'm in Colorado and have had most the issues in the video happen with a handful of other markers, mostly ones in the video lol. @@PunishersPaintball
Did the force just break a paintball😮😮😮
Folks need to stop believing that the Force contains magical ferries that prevent ball breakage. That is not the case.
It was a barrel break. Also, in California where the marker is made they aren’t exactly a cold weather environment like the NE or MW so there could be issues in colder weather for sure. My force will shoot in the cold, but always nervous about it failing in the cold.
@@axledog7297 ohhhhhkayyyyy CNN
Garand Thumb but better
Why no winter paint?
Won't matter much. WInter ball just has some antifreeze in the paint......the shell is mostly the same. Maybe a bit thicker.
It's a test as to how the gun cycles and how it handles cold, brittle paint. 🙄
Gamma Core Og better in the cold than OP😂😂😂
Not weird for lv2. They Flux in the cold
I've run my LV2 in negative F conditions. User error is prevalent in paintball.
There’s about a 99% chance the ASA was reassembled incorrectly on that M3+ at some point. I’ve seen it multiple times where the plate for the pin valve isn’t quite fully seated and the gun will leak or work completely fine. It displays that identical firing symptom.
I think the 180 deserves a little more credit. Consistent fps, just a sound signature? No operating issues.
CS wins
Swap my gold fossil parts for your blue fossil parts?!?!?!?!😬😬😬😬🤞🤞😂😂
Can we just say all the markers except the era are older used models. Lube drys out and I wonder if these were all BNIB if the results would differ.
All of these markers had been fully tech’d, checked for function including fresh lube and new batteries
@@PunishersPaintball good to know!
Breaking paint, not chopping paint. There is a difference.
So you guys test out brand new markers than turn around and sell them for “brand new prices” ?
No
I've noticed in ALL these paintball videos throughout the years, NO ONE has a damn knife to cut open bags of paint. Everyone is struggling to either tear or bite the bags open like a bunch of idiotic heathens.
Yeah, that's beyond annoying. I carry a knife every single day. Come on guys.
Promo-SM 🌟
All markers are salad shooters in the super cold....
Any dye gun is crap in cold weather PE is the only way to go with cold weather. My lv2 works perfect btw and I play in NH all the time. Also had an m3+ and was the worstttttttttttt. The dsr+ I also had and it worked fine but I didn't have it that long to know.
"Any Dye gun...."
DSR+ does not function like any other Dye marker and this test displayed no cold weather cycling issues, unsurprisingly.
please put some gloves on. My hands feel cold just watching you.